Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Chuck Morris

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Chuck Morris · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: My guest today is What a Ry concert promoter Chuck Morris.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: This week is titled as Chairman Emarritus of the Age
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: presents in both Denver and the Pacific Northwest, and he's
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: head of the new music business program at Colorado State University. Chuck,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: good to have you. Now, this is great, Bob, thank
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: you so much for inviting me. Okay, let's just start
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: with general topics. Live shows, when are they coming back? Um, Hey,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: you know as well as I, we need a vaccine.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: You know, we we figured out our beautiful new uh
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Mission ballroom which seats walt all standing thirty fifty. If
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: we're socially distant, we may be able to sell seven
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: under tickets and the band can't make a penny. We're
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: not in business. It's gonna need a vaccine. If I
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: had a guess, and it's strictly a guess, my guest
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is a vaccine will go We'll start being given out.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: And this is such a guess. You never know. I
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: think by next April to June of next year will
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: begin to have shows. That's my guests. Okay, just a
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: couple of questions. If we don't have a vaccine, no shows.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I don't see how big acts, even midsize acts can
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: play in our kind of halls. I mean, you know,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: we have the Bluebird five hundred, the Odds in seventeen hundred,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the Gothic a thousand. We have big shows at the
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: stadiums of PEPSI, we have the our mission ballroom is
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: thirty d We have the first bank, which is you
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: can't put enough people in for the band to make
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a penny. I think the tiny acts will play the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: tiny rooms for fifty people and probably be happy. I mean,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: if I was a baby act and who just wanted
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to play, it's in my advantage to do that. But
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: the big acts, I don't see how they can do it.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I just don't see it. I mean, do you, Uh No,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I don't either. But going back before March, before the shutdown,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: how would you compare the business as opposed to the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: seventies when you really got ranking and going. Our business
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: today up till this tragedy has been mind blowing. When
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I first started, my first club was Tlagi's Nightclub and
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Boulder UM. I never dreamed that I would outlive all
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: my rich friends who are working for record companies and
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: morning guys in radio and entertainment editors of newspapers, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: we outlived them all. You know, the Internet, all the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: other stuff that's going on. Uh, you can replace anything
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: except live music. And I was always you know, I
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: owned clubs for first eight years, and then I started
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: working with Faye as his number two guy, and built
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: my own cup and you with Greg Pearl of b
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: g P Chuck Morris and went on blah blah blah,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the Sects, the clear Channel to live Nation, and then
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I joined my old friend Phil and Sews. I never
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: dreamed that live entertainment would get so big and a
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: big chunk of the rest of the business would be
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: replaced by other things and making it less well, make
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: making it less important. I mean I was always uh
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: jealous of my friend, not jealous. I never cared about
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: money anyway. But you know, my rich friends worked for
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: record companies. They were morning guys, they were newspaper editors
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: of music editors. They were writing for Rolling Stone and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: making good money on articles. They were doing all this stuff.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: While the libins we we did well, don't get me wrong,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: but I never dreamed it would be do this well,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I mean our office and God bless my great partners.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: One of them happens to like you, which I worry
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: about Don Strassburg and Brent for Trees, who will be
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: taking over my position as the number one person. I've
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: been with them twenty seven years. Um, I have a
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: dream to it get this big. You know it used
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: to be in the old days. I think you'll agree
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: with this. People would go on the road to sell
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: albums because that's where they made all their money. Today,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: you make an album as a pr thing so you
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: can sell more tickets on the road. That's where they
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: make all their money. Okay, so I agree with you totally.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: In terms of being the promoter. How has it changed
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in terms of deals from then to today? The bands? Uh? Well,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: first of all, I hate old promoters that liked the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: old days and either leave the business or complain about it.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: To me, it's a much better business. I don't mind
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's more lawyers and accountants and people
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: that protect the bands, the customers, even the promoters and everybody.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not one of those old guys that said, oh
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I wish there's the old way where we could you know,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: write and an offer on a piece of paper and
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: bullshit away with expenses. You know, every agency has their
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: own marketing people, their own accountants, their own everything. Tour
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: managers are as sharpest that can get. And I think
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: it's a better business for that. And I've learned how
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: to change. That's why I've survived this long up until now.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: And now I'm I'm doing something that I've wanted for
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: most of my life, which is as I as I
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: ended my career, uh started department at a major university
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in Colorado and teach music business, which has been my
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: love my whole life. Well, we'll certainly get deeper into that,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: but going with this statement just made how have you
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: changed over the years in terms of business. Um, I've
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: learned how to deal with lawyers, and I've learned how
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: to deal with accountants, and I've learned how to have
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: people now, you know, make deals and go through them
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: and number by number. I've learned that you have to
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: be straight in today's world. I mean in the old days,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: let's be real, in the seventies, even into the eighties,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: we were all partying, we were all having it was
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a great business. I had more fun than you can believe,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: but I mean I got sober. I've been sober ever
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: since because my body was breaking down and I couldn't
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: stay until four o'clock in the morning and get up
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and go to work, and it was breaking down, and
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I had I realized that business is getting so big
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: and how you had to be straight to deal with
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: what was going on was how it was changing, and
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I think all for the better, I really really do. Okay, So, uh,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: let's talk about an act that can sell arenas or larger.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Traditionally they're taking about nine So if you're lucky, if
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: you're okay. So where does the promoter make their money today?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Promoter makes his money if he owns a building. You
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: make it on food and beverage, an alcohol, and some
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: on ticketing if you have your own ticketing company, or
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: you make a deal with the ticketing company on on
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: corporate sponsorship. As far as the door is concerned, the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: bands make some points percent percent of the growth of
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the door. You have to make it an answering income
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: or you're not in business anymore. In the old days,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I remember the first deals I made. One of the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: first acts, Big Acts, one of the first acts that
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: played for me was the Doobie Brothers in seventy one
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: on my first club nineteen seventy actually listen to the music,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: was just breaking their first fifth single. I gave them
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: twenty dollars versus fifty percent of the door for five nights.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: We didn't show any expenses because it didn't matter. They
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: got half the door, so I could spend all I
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: wanted or nothing. And we always sold great tickets in
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Bold of Colorado. My club's always just so well. So
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: they didn't care, and so there was never any settlements.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: They made half the door. Yeah, they count of the tickets,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: took half the money and left and everybody was happy.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: It was just a different ballgame. The bands, the promoters
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: made a chunk of the door in the old days.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Today's days have changed now. Don't know if you get
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Irving was the first that I love. Irving one of
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: my oldest dearest friends. I did this second Eagles Day
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: when they played for me in my club too, Lodgy's,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: in November of n rehearsing. They played a week in
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Aspen and a week for me in Boulder to rehearse
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: to make their first album, and Irving had just joined
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Elliot Robinson, David Geffen, I don't even know if he
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: was doing the day to day for the Eagles. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: they called and they said they wanted two weeks to rehearse,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: so they were gonna go in in January to make
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: their first album. And their producer, guy named Glenn John's,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: was flying in from England and wanted to take notes.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: And it was it was the last week in November
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: after Thanksgiving, college town college kids with three too bar
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: so you could be eighteen. And I said, no one's
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: gonna come. There's finals and then they leave, and I
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: think I was talking to may rest in peace. It
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: was Elliot Robins or David Geffen, I can't remember. I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: said nobody's gonna be there, and said, we don't care.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: We're gonna work a week and ask them that little
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: club up there which is still around a different name,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the Goldberghnes and My Club, and it was the four
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: original guys um and we did about twelve people a
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: night and they were amazing. But I I watched history
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: because I saw Glenn John's taking notes. But they were
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: playing all the songs from their first album. They had
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: never done any live days before that. I was they
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: had they who put together by those guys. Uh, let's
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: just stop there. Uh So if they played for five nights,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: business did not increase over those five nights. Uh it
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: was a blizzard most of the time and finals were over. No,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: they didn't, but they didn't care. They wanted to rehearse
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the songs and they were playing peaceful, easy feeling and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: take it Easy and all those great songs they recorded
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a month and a half later in London with Glenn
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: John's Wow. So I watched history that week. Okay, let's
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: talk about dates that you buy where you're losing money.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: What happens then, both in the past and in today. Um.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Most promoters today have given up asking for money back.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: In fact, I really never did a because I was
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: always embarrassed to do it. Even though I was a
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: club owner, I was self made, I didn't I wasn't
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Baptist before I joined fe Line and Barry UM. But
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I always felt, you know, you win some, you lose some,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and we got killed on some dates and it was
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: not much she could do. I will tell you the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: greatest story ever. Though I had a great comic named
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Dick Gregory at Ebbottsfield, my second club. I named it
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: because I grew up in Brooklyn, ten blocks from the
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: baseball park of the Brooklyn Just I was a big
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: brookn Dodging fan at nine years old, and I had
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Dick Gregory as a stand up. He had already started
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: moving away from being a stand up. It was probably
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seventy one, maybe two at Ebbittsfield and tore
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: about eighty people, and I gave him twenty dollars, which
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: was a lot in those days. And this happened to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: be the only time in my career he and he
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: didn't have a road manager. In those days aren't usually
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: turned on their own. And he walked in, the nicest guy,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: just and he was already writing books on losing weight
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and liquid diets and was moving away from being a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: stand up, so he wasn't seting tickets much as a
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: stand up anymore. And he looked at me and said,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: he got killed to night, didn't you. I said, yeah,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I got killed. He said, I'm gonna tell you something.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: You pay me whatever you think is fair. And I
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: wrote out a chapter half the money never happened since
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: only time in my career that an artist ever did that.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: That was Dick Gregory. I will never forget that as
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: long as I live. It was the sweetest, kindest, wonderful thing.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And I needed the money because we were getting murdered
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and that never happened again. Okay, so when we you
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: know what the conventional wisdom today is no one gives
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: money back to Live Nation because it's a public company. Uh.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Were you the outlier or were really other? You know?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: The tradition was I give money back to the promoter
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to keep him in business, so the next time around
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: he has money to pay me. Was it that you
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: were so good and your economics were good, or was
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: it there were other people getting money back? What do
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you think that I shouldn't say not getting back to
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: just that there have been some and there still are
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: some if you get killed. There's some artists that are
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: pretty a few that are very nice about it. Um.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: But to be honest, most of the time they blame
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the promoter or the club owner that we didn't know
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: how to sell tickets. When it's sold out, it's because
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the act is hot. And when it doesn't it doesn't
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: sell tickets is because we do a lousy job. And
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that's not everybody. God bless them. There's some of the
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: greatest artists in the world that I consider some of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: my best friends. You know, I managed the Dirt Band
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: for years. They always gave money back if they if
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: they heard a promoter. But of course they wanted to
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: come back, and some of them were country festivals that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: they wanted to come back and play too. I mean,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: there was some some reason for it, but they were
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: really nice guys who didn't like to see people get burned.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So there are people like that, but it's not not
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: a general thing that happens. You know, a band comes
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: out today with you know, even midsize acts with you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: four semis and a fourteen man crew, and they have
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of expenses. I sound like a band manage now,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: which I've been my whole career, as well as promoter.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's hard for them to give back
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: some money. Okay, let's say you're the promoter and you
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: lost money and the band wants to come back. What
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: do you say, Um, have I asked them for money
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: back when I got killed the first time? No? No, No,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: let's just say you did the date you lost a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: real sum of money as opposed to ten dollars. Suddenly
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it's six months a year later, they want to come
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: back on the road. They ask you for an offer.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: What do you say? You say, you give him a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: lobo offer. You give them what they want. You say,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna play you at all. All of the above,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: none of the above. I've lost money on bands knowing
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I would. When I heard a first album from an
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: act that I thought was phenomenal and I knew that
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: hadn't the record hadn't really started taking off. I would
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: lose money out of band, a few bucks because I
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: believe in the band. People forget what Bruce Springsteen what
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: was his third album? Fourth album before he happened? Ari
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Ari Speedwagon had like three or four before you know did?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: They're big hit A million acts were like that, and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I would. I would lose money a few bucks on
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: bands if I believe it'd be a future. Okay. But
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: in the old days, prior to the roll up of
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the bands were loyal. They're not really loyal anymore, are they.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Some are, some aren't. It's definitely there's a lot less.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: There's less loyalty these days, and there used to be.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Um we have we have people that have played for
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: us their whole careers. God bless them. And we have
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: bands that do tours with other unnamed um major promoting
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: companies that have that have given us an exception on
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: their contracts. And we've done the dates in Denver thanks
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: to myself, thanks to Don and Brent, who are the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: greatest partners in the world, who have their own relationships
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: plus mine. They have great ones where a band sometimes
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: will say, I'll do a tour for a Bold Bucks,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: but we we've always worked for the gang in Denver.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: We want to play for them. And once in a
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: while a band will you know, or a promoter will
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: allow that band to make an exception. Sometimes they won't
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and they played for somebody else. It does happen. It hurts,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: but it does happen. Okay, So why is Denver such
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: a spectacular live music market we have. That's a good question.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: There have been some great people. I guess I'm one
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of them. My two key guys have been one of them.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: We have the greatest first of all, we have the
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: greatest amphonthater in the world, Rent Rocks, which has been
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: around forever. We also have a great audience that we've
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: all helped develop we have some great institutions there. I'm
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: not the only one that has been a pretty good promoter,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: bringing in great acts with great buildings. And we have
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: a town, an unbelievable public pbst you know about Nick
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and and Ea town there on what three hundred radio
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: stations around the country from Boulder, Colorado, which is promoted
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: some great music from Colorado. We have tell you Ride
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Bluegrass when the greatest festivals in the world Colorado Festival.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: You know, thanks to those guys. It's it's a it's
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: a wonderful place. We've developed a great market for shows,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: for buildings, for special events, and we've had a lot
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: of good people. I've by this. I'll talk to Don
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and he'll tell me the kind of business he's doing
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: with acts that can't tell anywhere near that number in
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: another market. I'll tell you a funny story when I
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: decided to go back and promote. When Barry Faye decided
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to retire, and I was just managing bands and working
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: in as a consultant at FE Line, and when Barry
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: decided to retire, I was always a number to promoter
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: for years behind Barry. I decided to come back and
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I made a deal with my great friend Greg pearl Off,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and we started Chuck Marris Bill Graham Presents and built
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the film more because they had the brand name. I
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: always wanted to build a great rock club because I
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: had built my own before that. And uh, Greg and Sherry,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: who you know, I'm sure very very well. Greg would
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: call me and say, there's a mistake here. I said,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Pro Off? He said, he
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: got tickets from Michael front day. You're full of it.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: He does great in San Francisco, and he and and
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe a few other places and Michael. I love Michael,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and he sells a lot of tickets now. But there
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: were acts like that that Greig thought I was lying
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: with my ticket counts. But we have an interesting market.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: First of all, we've had KBCO Radio for forty years
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that has played not as much alternative music as they
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: do as they used to, but always took chances on
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: records and bands. We just have a great, great market
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that we've all worked hard at and developed. You know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Austin gets a lot of press, and I love Austin.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I managed a great band years ago called the Ugly
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Americans of Bob Schneider loved off still love lost the music.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: They get a lot of pressed, but I tell the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Colorado music scene is really amazing. I don't think we've
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: gotten as much national and international presses. We probably should
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: have because we've we've developed we meaning all of us.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I'm only one of them, and I've been blessed that
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I have two guys that are taken over. They're probably
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: better than me. You know, We've just wet some great
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: promoters in great club owners, great buildings, great radio stations,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: great special events. It's just been a wonderful place to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: develop music. And I've been blessed that I was part
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of it right from the beginning. So let's assume, you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: if they're playing the Pepsi Center, which is a small arena,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: they're playing red rock. The acts are dictating the terms.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: But if they're playing the Mission ball over, they're playing smaller.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Can the promoter make a greater percentage of the revenue.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: That's why it's not true. They explain it to me.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: They get almost as much money as they can. That's
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the job of the Asians, and they take almost everything
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: from the door and hope you can make it on
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the other end. That's just the way our our business
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: has gotten and that's and that's not the worst thing
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: in the world. We still do okay, okay, okay, but
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I put five kids through college, so I did. Okay. Okay.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Now we all know on the inside, the ticketmaster is
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: a front for the acts. Really, the acts are taking
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: all the ticket revenue, so the money for profit for
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the promoter. Okay, give me your take on it. Ticket
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Master takes money of the money. Yeah, they have to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: make a profit. What I'm saying is, let me put
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: it in in a different way. The fees were a way
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: to keep a certain amount of money out of the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: gross that the acts wanted to commission. Correct yes and no. Yes,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: it's true. But the only way promoters could survive was
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: as things got moving along from the seventies and the
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: eighties and into the nineties, the bands were taking more
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and more and more of the money, and promoters, if
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: they wanted to survive, how to figure out other ways
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to make money. Some of it was ticketing, some of
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: it was sponsorship, some of it, some of it was advertising,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: some in the in the in the arenas. Some it
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: was all sorts of stuff. Answering income is the only
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: way promoters have been able to survive, and that's where
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: you make your money. In the old days, I made
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: money at the door. We okay, but let's let's talk
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: about club dates. You know, when you have a hundred
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: dollar plus ticketed a large venue, the uh the fee
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: is less of a percentage of the overall cost. But
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I get email all the time people say, well, you
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: know the ticket was twenty five dollars and the fees
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: were twenty dollars. What do you say to that? First
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: of all, I've never seen that higher higher amount. Well,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I certainly have, but maybe not in your more money
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: for not our market. You're telling me a twenty ticket
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: against a twenty dollar fee. Yes, just just just for
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the ticketing. Now, there's also some buildings that are owned
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: by somebody else will have a building fee to pay
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: back to build a building. That might be an addit
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: add on, okay, well, ultimately in fees. Let me put
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: it in a different way. How come we can't go
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: into an overall one price because expenses have gone up
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: for everybody, and everybody is in some ways greedy to
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: be able to survive, to make as much money as possible,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and that's why they have managers and agents and lawyers
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and accountants. Okay, let's just let's just assume the fee
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: is fifteen dollars if you own the building and you
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: are the promoter, or what percentage of the fee will
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you get back? It all varies. It all varies on
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the city, on the deal you make with a ticketing company,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: on which ticketing company. Um. It all depends. And there's
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: promoters that don't don't charge, don't take a lot of it.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: There's some promoters that keep there, and there's some bands
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that keep their ticketing down. You know, God bless Dave Matthews.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: He's up there, but he still keeps a reasonable ticket
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and you know, we've been working with him from the
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: very very very beginning. And uh, speaking of the beginning,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: let's go back to you. You're from Brooklyn. What kind
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: of circumstances did you grow up in. My father was
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: a public school teacher. I grew up in Crown Heights, Brooklyn,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: or rather a lower middle class area. I was a
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Brooklyn Dodger fan. Um, I love the Dodgers. Grew up
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: about fourteen blocks from Evants Field. My second club by
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: named David's Field, which, by the way, I couldn't do today.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I'd be sued by the Los Angeles Dodgers and it
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: was Billboard Club of the Year, and I used the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: same logo in nineteen seventy two. I would have been
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: enjoyed from doing that. But knowing cared in those days. Okay,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: let's stuh okay, how many kids in the family? Have
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: five kids? I was actually, believe it or not a
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: very good student. But where were you in the hierarchy
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of the five kids? Uh? No, no, I have five kids?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: No no, no, no no. Then the media asked question,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: in the family that you grew up in, how many
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: kids were there too? Just my brother and I. He's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: a dentist. And who was the oldest? He was four
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: years four years older. Usually the oldest. All the hopes
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and dreams are in the oldest, and they sort of
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: coddle the younger. What was it like in your family? Well,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I was a really excellent student. I graduated from Forests
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: High School when I was sixteen because they had something,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: you know, called the sp where you can skip the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: eighth grade and do seven, eight and nine and two years.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And I started kindergarten when I was four because I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: passed some i Q tests and started so I graduated
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: high school at sixteen, went to Queen's College. Actually, Paul
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Simon an Arty garfen Call went to Horses I school
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: in Queen's College with me, although they were four years
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: ahead of me any time, and graduated with me. And
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I was real good friends with in high school and college.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: But anyway, came out to Boulder, and I don't even
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: know what Colorado was because we didn't have any money,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: but they gave me a scholarship to go for a
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: PhD and political science. I love government. That's probably what
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I've done fifty benefits for a whole bunch of politicians,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: especially my boy John Hickenlooper will be arranging a new
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: one for a Senate campaign. But I go back with
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Gary Hart and Pat Schroeder and all the liberal Democratic
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: politicians that I've done. I love politics. Was on my
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: way to a doctor at twenty two and a half,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: but I I spent my youth buying albums and going
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: to concerts. My father is a school teacher. During the summer,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: he would be a camp counselor at Lake Should talk
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: with New York, which is the greatest place. It's a
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: summer resort and they have an Amphitheater there and they
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: have music and symphony and all sorts of stuff. I
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: went there. We sigment with my dad's as as a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: camp counselor, and I started. I saw the Kingston Trio
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: when I was eleven years old, and I saw God.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I went to see again. I stuck in the front row,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: sat on the floor, and I fell in love with
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: folk music. Absolutely fell in love with folk music. I
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: bought every album of all the old folk eas In fact,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: can you see that? Yes I can, It says born
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to Folk. I finally my kid, who has tattoos, convinced me.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I said, I always wanted this, but I never had
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the nerve out of way till my Jewish mother died.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: But I finally got that. But I fell in love
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: with folk music. I saw the Kingston Trio, brought up
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Tenor Martin for string guitar like Nick Reynolds of the band,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: played in a couple of folk bands. Was not very good,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: but I lived for music. I also, when we got
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: my father became an assistant principal. We made a few
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: extra books. So we moved to the poorer part of
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: our hills and I went to the far Stills west
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Side Terence Club where they had shows even in those days,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and saw Bob Dylan and a whole bunch of other acts,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and just lived for music Board every album when it
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: came out, just but I didn't know how to get
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: into music becauseiness, I didn't know anybody. I knew Eddie
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Simon and the Simon family, but that was it. And
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: after two years of doing well in graduate school at
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: a very young age, so wait, wait, after those two years,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: what year are we in chronologically? Nineteen sixty? He was
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: so two years of graduate school, I was gonna quit
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: graduate school and try to make it in the entertainment
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: business because that's what I really loved. And my parents
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: almost they disowned me. They thought I was having a
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: nervous breakdown. My father was a brilliant guy, a school teacher,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: you know, five et, a captain and Greek and Latin,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: but it was a school teacher and they didn't understand
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I quit graduate school. I was a great student and
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be in music, which my parents did
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: not understand. And just just before we go, you were
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: studying what instant at university policide constantly, I was getting
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: a doctorate in constitutional You are and I was a
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: twenty year old t a at c U. Okay, I'm
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: about twelve years old. Okay, And what was the dream
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: once you did get the pH d. I didn't have
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a dream. I like politics, and I guess I didn't
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: have end up either being a lobbyist like my daughter
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: has become, or teach teacher. Okay, SI in college. Okay,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: so you say I'm leaving to I'm leaving school. I
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: want to be in the entertainment business. And what is
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the next move? The next move is I got friendly
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: with a guy named Herbie Cavar. Herbie Cavar owned the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: most popular bar on the hill in Bold called the Sink.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: The Sink was deep place to get a beer and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: listen to a jukebox and have fun. It's still around.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: It's been around and Bolded for forty years anyway, fifty
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: years maybe more. And one day I told him I
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: dropped out and I wanted to do something with people.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I used to have a beer with him every night
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: when I left New Orleans Library after I studied, and
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I told him I had quit and I wanted to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: do something with people, maybe music, although they didn't have
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: live music at the time of the sink, and he said,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: you know, my manager of the sink just quit. People
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: love you. You're really smart. Why don't you manage to sink?
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Which was the number one three too bar in the state.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: It took a half hour to get in there on
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a Friday afternoon and there was no cover charge, just
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: to show an I d that's how busy it was,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and I decided to take to try it. In fact,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I said I never took a business class. I didn't
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: know anything about He said, no, you'd be great. I
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: started managing the sink in night and started booking local
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: bands in the back room. Some of them became famous.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: One of them was this wonderful kid guitar player named
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Tommy Bolan, who was one of the greatest that ever lived.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Ran away from Sioux City, Iowa, started playing little clubs
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: and Boulder became best friends with him. He played the
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: upstairs of the sink for me. Another one with a
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: bunch of dropouts from SEU named Flash Cadillac and the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Continental Kids, who they played in the back room for
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: me for a keg of beer. Second show they ever did.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: They ended up being a regular on Happy Days and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: then with the movie American Graffiti. They're still touring, by
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the way since then, and I started booking local bands,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: some of them became well known in the In the
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: upstairs of the sink, I also did something I knew
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I was a good promoter when I did something really nuts.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: The Sink jut box was the only music at that
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: point before I started booking, putting local bands in the
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: back room for free, and it was a successful jukebox.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And I came up with this crazy idea that I
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: was gonna make forty five's out of album cuts in
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that jute box. Companies didn't give to the ju box.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: To the juke boxes, there was always the top forty hits.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: So I did a forty five of like the long
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: range of hit. I did it stuff from you know,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: movies that people love, but they never were singles. And
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: it became the biggest two box in history of the
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: state if people would go in there to play those
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: songs that they couldn't get in any other juke box anywhere.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And I did stuff like that, and I knew I
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: had a natural inclintion to promote music. And after about
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: two and a half years, I convinced herby that we
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: ought to take a bankrupt club called to Logs, which
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: was up the street right next to Don's Fox. By
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the way, it's still there, although it's now a lot
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: of other stores. The signs still up because it's histark
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and just stopping for one second when you started to
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: manage the sink, that is, when you dropped out of
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: school or were still going to school. But I know
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: I dropped out of school. Okay, so you you you find,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: you find two loggies. I convinced herby because I still
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: have no money. Because I, to be honest, I party
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: too much. I love cars, women and having fun. I
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: did very well. But those were the seventies and sixties,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: like sixties and Boulder, Colorado, for God's sakes, I mean
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you know. Um. In fact, I'll tell you quick story.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Tommy Bowling became one of my best friends, became one
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: of the greatest guitarist. Was in Deep Purple. James Gang
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: um odd and died too young. I had which comedian
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: that I had, Oh god, what's his name? He died
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: a while ago. But I walked. I walked in and
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Tommy wanted to meet him, and we walked into the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: dressing When I was doing the show, and um, he
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: looked at me and and said, I got a feeling
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I really want to get some pot. And I got
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the feeling that the guy with hair down his back,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: with pink hair in bold of Colorado knows how me
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: to get score some pot. Which he was right. Of course, Tommy,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: you know how to get pot. But it was Bob
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: what's his name? Great comedian, but it was a funny line.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: That's another story. So so I I convinced her me
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: to put the money up. I owned a small piece.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I did the whole thing book Did you do? You
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: do you remember how much money he had to put up?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that much. It was a rental deal. We
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: never owned the building. We remodeled it. We opened up
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: with the hottest band ever in Colorado that never made
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: it nationally, Tommy Boland's band, Zephyr. And in a period
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: of three years in blues, I had John Lee Hook
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of Money Waters, Lightning Hopkins, Man Slips, Big Mama, Thornton, Uh,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Johnny Ootis, Shug be Yotis everybody um In In Folk,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I had the Dirt band who later moved there, Leo Cocky,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: who I managed for years. Um Tom rushed, Tim Harden,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Tom Tom Paxton, everybody in rock. I had body races.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: First tour. I had the first tour of zz Top,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: which was amazing. I mean, all those bands played for me.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: It became one of the most successful clubs in America. Okay,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: what was the capacity of Too Loggy's five hundred? And
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: if you once you were going, if you didn't have
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: the deep pocket of the guy who owned the sink,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: could you have made it? I couldn't have opened the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: club and I couldn't have whatce it was open? Was
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: it always in the black or was it up always
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: in the black? Did very well, but I only had
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a small piece and I did everything. He never came in.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, he gave me my break. I'll never say
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a bad thing. He's still alive in his nineties and
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: gave me the biggest break of my career to manage
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to think and then putting up the money for a
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: club that became my really entree into making it as
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a as a promoter. But he was wonderful, But but
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I felt like, um, I wanted to have more say,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to do bigger concerts. And every time
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I book a band, I book the first tour of
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Dan Hickson, Hot Licks who were huge, and Boulder, I
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: mean really obscure bands that were doing just great there.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Uh cold Blood remember them, she was killer there. I
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: had all those bands anyway. Um, when the band's got bigger,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: they played for Faye because he was the big promoter
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Faye Line and I wanted to do bigger shows. J J.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Cale was huge and Boulder was the first guy to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: bring a man not you ever met him or see
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: him play. He's the greatest. He was the greatest anyway.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: But when they when they got bigger, they played for
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Fae because he was a big promoter. And I said,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: if I wanted to get big, I might have to
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: go into business with him. I never met him. We
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: fought over the phone and he always won. I tried
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: to do a bigger concerts and he got them, and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I realized then, at least in those days, that's the
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: way the business was, at least for me. There are
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: some people that have stayed independent. God bless him. Our
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: boys in Washington, he see him been like that, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I have a total respect for them. But for me,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: if I wanted to be bigger, I'd have to probably
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: have to get into business with Barry, who I never met,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and he was three hunder than five pounds, and we
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: screamed on the phone for about two years and he
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: always won. So one day I decided I was going
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: to take it, take a chance, and you're still running
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: two loggies as a kind of partner doing all the
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: work herby okay. So two and a half years later
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I called Barry. I I thought he would hang up
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: on me because we fought on the phone. He would
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: ask the phone, what the fund do you want? That's
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: how Barry said a low if you knew anything about
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I love Barry, but he was a lot different than
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: most people I've ever known in my life. I loved
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: him and a lot of ways, best man and two
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: of my weddings, but we were different a lot of ways.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: So I called him and he said, what the fund
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: do you want? I said, you know, I'm this young
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: kid that built this big club. I'm finding acts. Linda
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Ronstad did a first tour there that he left the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Stone Ponies. I had all these parents, I said, and
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: then when they get big, they played for you at
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: fey Line. I want to maybe build a club with
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you as a partner. Equal partner in Denver. There was
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: no rock club then, and then I want to go
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: on and do bigger shows with you, and he said,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: what are you doing tomorrow night? I still remember the show.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I had stone ground to remember that band. Of course,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm Warner Brothers from San Francisco. Who's the lead singer?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: The same guy for the bull Rumbles? Who? Who? God?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: If you had an ass not Sal Valentino, Yes, yes,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: oh I love you, You're great. This is the great
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: And the opening act was Man Slipscomb, the old Delta
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: blues musician who was about eighty five years old. In
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: those days, you can put anybody on the on on shows.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So I put together the stupidest shows and the bolder.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: It always worked. I wanted to show with who is
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the hippie band from from from San Francisco one of
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: the first ones, and I put my dear friend Mimi
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Farina in the open. She was opening for the Sons
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: of Champlin, Bill Champlin's first Yeah Nea was his R
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and B hippie band. And I loved Mimi. She had
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: played John Pey as his kid sister. Well, I loved
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: love to death. I put her on there. It would work.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Nowhere else in the world except Balda, Colorado, and people
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: loved it. Anyway, you could put any acts you want.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: In those days, you didn't have agents. Manager saying we're
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: putting one of the bands that we worked with on
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: the shows and anyway. So Barry said, I'll come up
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and talk to you, and I had some ground and
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: man slips. He walked in my office and said, you're
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: the best club kid I've ever seen. Go find a club.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I'll put up all the money, will be partners, and
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: if it works out well, we'll start doing concerts together.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: And that's all I wanted to hear. I left too
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Loggy's about six four weeks later, started looking for clubs
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and found an old mr room called Marvelous Marks. Who whoa, whoa, whoa?
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: What did the owner of the sinks say when you
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: said you were moving on? He was devastated, but we
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: had our differences. He was God bless Herbie. I love him.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: He gave me such a break, but he still didn't
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: understand the culture of our business. He'd freaked out if
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: he walked in and a musician with smoking cotton addressing
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: room freak out right in front of me. I'll never
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: forget the biggest thing. I've game best friends with the
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: dirt band who moved to Colorado. I later managed them
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: and still my best friends for twenty five years. And
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: they were rehearsing at Too Loggy's before they started a
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: tour because I lived in Colorado, leaving Denver Boulder and Annassment,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: and they rehearsed for four days during the day and
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Herby came in. I was this is the first band
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I became best friends with. And he came in and
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: we had pillows on the floor. People would sit on pillows,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: hundreds of people and then seats around the outside. And
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: he started screaming at because the pillows were dirty and
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: show that night and I said to myself, I can't
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: do this anymore. And that's what I called faye. Okay,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: So you start looking for a club, what do you find.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I find a place called Marvelous Marvs that was an
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: M O R room that would have like pop AX,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: m r X, Las Vegas AX, and they weren't doing well,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: and I convinced they to write out the whole check.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: We became fifty fifty partners. I named it Everittsfield, the
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: place that I lived for you own, you rented, or
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: you actually owned the building. We rented the building, we
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: rented the room. We remember how much Faye had to
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: put in to get started. It was. It was a
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: dumpy place, I would say, I mean those days, it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: was a lot of money. Probably that was a lot
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of money. Okay. So how long does it take you
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: after you find it to actually open um? It was
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: only about six weeks of construction. It was really just
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: cleaning it up. We had bleachers. People sat in bleachers
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: that had carpeting on it, and it became a very
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: very It was as I said, it was Billboard Club
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: of the Year for two years. Yeah. I happen to
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: have a list of the four. I'm not gonna let
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: you read, okay, but just first question for you to
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: say some of the acts. What was capacity in Ebbitttsfield
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy Okay, So give me some of
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the acts, okay. I'll just give you some of the
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: big ones. Tommy Bowling, George Benson, roy By Cannon, J. J. Kale,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Canned Heat, Cheech and Charm, I'm just Dr hook Ry Coutter,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Climax Blues Band, John fay Leo, Cocky Dan Foldelberg, Peter Frampton,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Richard Greene, David Grisman, Dick Gregory. It was a comical song. Um, John,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: we got the idea. So what happened? You all your
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: open abbage Field? How long is that run? And when
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: do you get into concert? Four years? Four years and
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: fay Line was exploding. Barry started doing national tours, did
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: the Stones and about eight markets, did the Whon about
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: eight markets. He knew I was a great promoter, a
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: good promoter. I was a great promoter, Um, and said,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: why don't you We're never gonna make any money in
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: this club. You've developed a lot of great relationships, so
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: why don't you sell the club and become my number
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: one guy at fay Line so and start doing bigger shows.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: And so I sold the club four years after we
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: opened and became the senior vice president of fe Line
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: for ten years and booked many, many of the shows,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and we did shows all over the country. We did
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: William Whalen and the Outlaws across America. That's how I
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: became best friends with Willie and Mark Clothboun who still
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: as manager Um and did that. I had some differences
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: with Barry in terms of business practices and he had
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: some problems that are well known locally with gambling, and
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: I decided, Uh, I started managing the Dirt band and
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Leo Kaki and I put together a band by myself
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: that became a band called Highway one on one, the
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: THEOS country group of the Year, and I managed Susie
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Boggas and I'm and I found these young kids from
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Columbine High School named big Hat Todd in the Monsters.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: So my management company. While I was running Faye or
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: number two at Faye was doing well, I was a
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: little burnt out on I'm promoting, but more burnt out
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: of my relationship with Barry. I loved him, but we
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: had our differences and so I left and just managed bands.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Barry was bailed out he was going into bankruptcy for
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: personal reasons um by Michael Cole. Michael Cole flew me
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: up to Toronto. He had cp I then and said,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: you're the only body that fake and it it will ever
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: listen to. I want to keep you on as a consultant.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: You can manage all anybody you want, but stay on
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: part time. So I saw. I stayed on when col
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: bail Barry out and owned most of the line he
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: got tired of Barry and got bought out by a
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: guy named Jay Marciatto who was running House of Blues.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Jay did the same thing and said, you're the only
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: body failed ever listened to stay around as a consultant.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: So I did. And then when Faye announced he was retiring,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I decided I'd go on my own as a promoter.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: And that's what I called my dear friend Greg pearl
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Off and said, why don't we start at Chuck Mars
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: program Presents in Denver? So what one? What year? We
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: late nineties it was, And I said, I got an
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: old building called Mammoth Events Center that is so made
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: to be a film Wore. You guys own the brand.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I want to build a filmore here and I'll never
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: forget Greg and Sherry said, you're crazy. Bill never wanted
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: to be like a House of Blues that have film.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: War was all over the country. Guess who bo the
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: companies and now have film was all of the company.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they came into town. They saw this old
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: nineteen eleven club that needed a lot of work, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: they said, Bill would call this a film Wore. And
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: that was our first move. We opened the film wore
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: in Denver and we really took over. While I was
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: doing that, Greg said I got something I gotta tell you.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I said, what's that? I said, I've been talking to
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: this guy, Bob Sillerman, who's probably gonna buy our company,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: and he's buying a whole bunch of our promoting companies,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: of other promoters. You just started a company in Colorado.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: You will get a chunk to give up your part
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: in Colorado. I said, what the heck does that mean
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: for me? He said, Okay, here's the deal. You're gonna
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: get a nice check, nothing like we did when we
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: saw b GP, but a nice check for being a
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: business for four months. You will get more money to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: invest in other things, and we're all stay. I said, well,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: that is not a hard decision to be made, so
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I stayed. We sold my part, everybody sold it to Bob,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: and of course he sold it the Clear Channel. I
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: kept running it. Hired Don and Brent Is my first
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: moves years ago. I hired Don, who was running the Fox.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I hired him one day a week because I saw
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: him as being me twenty five years later. I said,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: this kid's a genius, So I hired him one day,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: one day a week, help helping our new company which
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: became s X, which became whatever first p g P
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Chuck Mars and hired another guy from fay Line who
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: couldn't handle the old fay Line and quit, named Brent
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: for Drees hired him. Both hired Gone one day a week.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: That I said, work two days a week. You're booking
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: great fade shows. You know that new stuff more than
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I do. And then he went to three days. And
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: then I took him out and said, Don, eight years
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: was the first eight year of my career. I ran clubs.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: It almost killed me. Enoughs enough, you can still all
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: in the club, Come work and do bigger shows. You'll
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: have a bigger career. And I convinced someone, and then
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: he worked full time. When I started a G, I
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: met him and Brent partners equal partners with me, and
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: they've been with me forever since then. So ultimately you
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: sell to Live Nation, but then you and Don and
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Brent leave Live Nation, as does pearl Off. What happens there, well,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Um Grant sold it to Live too, actually as effects
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: was sold at the Clear Channel was spun off the
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Live Nation. Greg left the same time as I did
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: he was getting tired of it and started another planet
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: same time, and I was getting tired of the politics
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: of a publicly traded company, and I got approached by
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: my dear friend Phil and Show. So I've known for
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: ever as a friend doing charity work with him. I
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: just loved the guy. Went to Russia with him with
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: the dirt Band because he had that's a quick story.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: He's got the largest Western our collection in the world,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: called the Anxious Collection. Grew up in Russell, Kansas, spent
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: the rest of his life in Colorado, made a lot
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: of money, built the greatest Western our collection was Sometimes
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: he tours around the world nonprofit. He called me one
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: day he loved the dirt band and went to a
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: bunch of shows. By the way, in fourteen years he's
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: been to five of our shows, five of US shows
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: in a g and has been to our age office
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: once in fourteen years. He's the greatest. Did you do well?
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: And he and he loves you. He lets you do
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: your do what you want. He's the greatest. But anyway,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: he loved the dirt band and went to dirt band shows,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and one day in nineteen right before the Russian Revolution
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: in year was it. What was callsby? Says, I gotta,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you. Come over to the office.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: We were already great a g wasn't even open yet.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: He said he know about my Western art. Question me
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and she's collection. I said, yeah, Phil, don't you remember you?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: He gave me a tour of it while I was
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: sitting here in Denver. He said, oh yeah, I forgot.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: He said, we're opening up the truck. You have a
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: museum in Moscow for six months. I've never done this before.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I want to fly my favorite American country band to
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: do thirty minutes acoustic in Moscow to open the exhibit.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: We'll have pressed there Soviet Union officials was right before
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: the Russian Revolution, and you know other people. I'll get
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: what do they make? And I said, I'll give him
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: a fee. I'm there for nine nights doing other business,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: oil business. You know, he has a million companies. And
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I'll put you and the girlfriends and wives and crew
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and band every the other eight nights, take everybody out
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: for dinner and have I have a lot of fun.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I'm doing business every day, other business. So we played
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes to open the exhibit, and only Phil as
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I called him back in a day and said, Phil,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: we're gonna do it. Don't worry, but the band would
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: love to play in front of some younger kids. This
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: is the art community. It was Soviet Union officials, it
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: was He actually invited the whole U. S. Embassy and
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: their families and art people. He said, Chuck, the whole
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: country's falling apart. Right, it was fifteen months before the
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Soviet Union fell, so you can imagine what Musket was like.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: It was a beautiful art museum. Were his exhibit safe
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: for six months? He said? Two days later he calls
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: me back to say, Okay, the first night you're gonna
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: do open my exhibit. The second night I arranged a
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: private show at a five thousand, most gorgeous opera house
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: you've ever seen. We're inviting Soviet Union officials, their families,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: the U. S. Embassy and their families, and we're given
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: away twicts to Russian students. And the third night I
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: arranged How Phil evert did this today, I've never asked him,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: but he did it in three days, he said. And
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: this is Phil talking to me, right. We were already
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: good friends. A g wasn't even open yet, he said,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: don't be mad at me, Chuck. But I said yes
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: without asking you, And I'm not sure if you're in
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: the band, think I want to do it. But I
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: do a lot of business in the Soviet Union, and
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I find that if the Soviet, if Soviets, make you
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: an offer, you have to say yes or no. If
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I would have said I got to talk to a
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: band or prove it, it goes away. So I said yes,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: don't be mad at me. And I said, well, we're
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: gonna have the greatest time in our lives. We don't care.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: We'll do anything. He said, Okay, I arranged a free
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: concert in Gorky Park. He played a talking about fifteen
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: thousand people. How filled the state did that? I told
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I don't even know. It's don't even asked. We get
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: around about it. But and that's how I became best
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: friends with the film. Okay, so, how do you ultimately
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: decide you want to start this music business program at
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Colorado State? For my whole life, he I was a
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: t a of twenty years old to see you. I'm
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: the son of a school teacher. I always loved teaching.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: I've taught it about twenty different colleges on one office,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: just talking about music business. And I never had one
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: plan in my forty eight year of music career. The
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: one plan I had was I wanted to start a
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: music business department at a Colorado university. One plan only plan,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: and I negotiated with not about money, but what school
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: would would follow up program I wanted to build. And
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I made a deal with CSU where there it's not
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: a small town anymore, fail Collins. There's starting two thousand
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: kids to go to that school and it's a big
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: city now. And um, we're starting in three weeks introduction
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: of music business and in three years it will be
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: a minor and in five years it will be a major.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Hired my first teacher under me, and I'm gonna have
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: a whole department that I'm building, which has been the
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: dream of my life to do that. And I'm gonna
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: have guests every week of all my friends in the business.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm inviting you by Skype to be a guest
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: to okay, and who your first couple of guests You've
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: already booked the first week because it's the first week.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: I invited a guy named Ja Marciano who graduated from
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: c s U. Who's from Colorado, pattay j. He's the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: head of our whole company, and he's perfect, and I
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: and write a big head title. I managed from here locally,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: still a big star here, and so they're gonna talk
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: on the first week. But I have a stream of
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: people that are getting ready to say yes, executives, musicians also. Okay,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: are you the only teacher at this point, I'm not
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: teaching at all. I'm gonna chairman of the department. I'll
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: guess lecture. I'll be there when the when the special
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: guests come once a week, but I'm not teaching day
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: to day. I'm not doing exams. I hired my first
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: teacher who had experience. Who how did you find a teacher?
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And who is he or she? Bart Bart Dol worked
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: at Madison House for String Cheese, worked for Christa. Sally
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: in his company, and then toured at Metro State for
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: five years. Music business. I wanted somebody both sides of it. Okay,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: what's gonna make your music business program different from all
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: the other music business programs that have sprouted in the
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: last few decades. Yeah, there's about forty of them, of
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: which about ten are real good. And I studied them all.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: I've flown to a lot of them. First of all,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have the best as you have seen in
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: your life because I have a lot of friends. Secondly,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I have a PhD in music business. It's just not
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: on the wall, and I'm gonna, I'm I believe, I'm gonna.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna build a great, great department. And the first
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: the first class sold out in five minutes. Okay, we
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: know all you were around when the business was still
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: being built. Certainly in this sense this century, it's about consolidation.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: But we know all these characters. We can list them
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: one after one another, and you've mentioned a lot of
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: them here. They were unique characters who probably would have
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: been successful in some other field if they weren't in
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: music business. Can you can you teach that to learn
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: how to make it in the music business. Yes, I
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: mean it's one thing to teach someone how to be
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: a road manager or to be a tour accountant. But
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: the managers and the promoters, the people who built this business,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: they broke the mold after they made them. Well, you're
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: absolutely right. I never took a music business There weren't
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: any music business classes in those days. I do think
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: if you love the business, and we'll do anything to
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: get into it, you can learn some things that will
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: make you a little bit more successful, a little quicker.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: And that's all I can expect to do. I'm not
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: going to train somebody that doesn't have it in their
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: bones to want to do it, but I think I
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: can make it a little bit easier for them. Okay,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: so what do you learn being a manager? We worked
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: for the bands. You could tell them all you want,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: you can fight them, you could tell them, but but
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: the bottom line is the band's And it took me
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: a while to learn that that. You can do so much.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: You can go to a certain point, but if the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: band won't do it, you got to live with that,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: or else you get fired. I'm as as simple as that.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: How do you make the band more successful than they
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: are when you first get involved? Well, I build a
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: band by audition called that became a band called Highway
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: win On One that was a country group of the year.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I auditioned people in Denver and that was like my creation.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: As far as big at Todd, they were already selling
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: out um thousand ceders in Minneapolis and Chicago and San
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Francisco and Boulder in Denver and doing three five hundred
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: in another markets, all managing themselves for about three years,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: went to Columbine High School. All were born in Colorado. UM.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I actually chased them for about a year and a
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: half to manage them because they wanted to manage themselves.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: But I convinced them that if they really wanted to
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: get bigger, um, they really probably had to go to
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: a label, a big label. They made their own records,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: their own label, and they did pretty well. They sold
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: tenths of twenty thousand two in the Bennett Records, which
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: was a lot. And and I made a deal with
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: my great friend Irving at Giant Records, and we did
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: an album called Sister Sweet Lee, got a great producer
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and sold a million and a half records. And they
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: went from here to here. Yeah, broke, broken hearted stranger?
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: How long broken a savior? Savior? Excuse me? How much
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: longer did you continue to work with Bighead Todd after that?
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Initially about fifteen years? Thirteen years? Okay, okay? How did
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: you get involved with the Dirt Band? Uh? They were
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: the third act that played for me. They moved to Colorado,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: they became my closest friends. You know, we're all at
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: each other's weddings and um they're only other manager before
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: me was a guy named Bill McEwen. Bill mckewen, That
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: was John McEwen from the Dirt Band's brother. John McEwen
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: had signed a young comedian named Steve Martin. Steve Martin
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: was the opening act for the Dirt Band for almost
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: three years on the bus. No one ever heard of him.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: He was brilliant. In fact, when they played for me
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the first time they got off the bus at a
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: lot of Eason said we got this comic Pam fifty bucks.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: He's on the All tour. I said great, and he
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: was hysterical. Bill Uh. Steve was starting to explode. Bill
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: was getting ready to do a movie called The Jerk.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Steve was becoming a superstar. He was living in Aspen
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: as he started a film company. He also signed another
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: He was brilliant with comics. Bill was signed a young
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: comic named pee Wee Herman and produced pee Wee's Big
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Adventure And called me one day and said would you
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: come out? And they all lived in Aspen. His company
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: film company was Aspen Films, and still managing the Dirt band,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: his brother's band or one of the members, and said,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you. And I went up
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: there and he said, I'm just too busy with Steve Martin.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: He's exploding, and I have this other comic pee Wee
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Pee Wee Herman. I think he's gonna be maybe as big,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and I'm I'm finishing up scores for two movies and
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: I just learned have enough time for my brother's band.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Would you take over? And I love the guys. I
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: had to think about it because I had never managed before,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: and I said, Bill, I never management before. I'm a promoter,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I'm a club. Are you crazy? He said, Chuck, the
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: band loves you. You know more about that music than
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: I do. And it's just the other side of the
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: coin on another thing when he said that, and he
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: was right, and I took over. They were sort of
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: on the way down. They had hits in the seventies,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: but it was the early eighties and it was Donna summertime.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: They weren't playing bands with banjos and violins anymore. They
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: had boat Angles and make a Little Magic an American
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Dream in the seventies, but they stopped getting radio and
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: they really were really underdown, and I said, let's go
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: make a country deal because country radio should play you
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: and that. And I said, I only managed you if
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: you'd let me do that. I made a deal with
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: one Is Nashville didn't change their music, just made some
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: great records with Paul Warley and had ten top ten
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: country records. I convinced to do Circle the Unbroken Volume
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: two that became album of the Year and had a
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: huge comeback with them for fifteen years, twenty years and
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: then and you know, managers either get fired or get
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: bored or get tired and they leave. This is a
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: certain amount of years, you know. I My joke was
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I once signed a band and they were too young
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: to know what I was talking about. But I took
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: them out to congratulate them and they signed with me
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: as their manager. And I said, this is a party
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: for two things. They said, what's that? I said, resigning
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: and for breaking up, because we are going to break up.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: It's just a matter of time. Okay. So, since you've
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: played both sides of the fence, what can you tell
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: people as a promoter and a manager, what can you
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: tell people who have only played on one side? Well?
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I always tell my bands that I manage that unless
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: their live dates come first before management stuff, you should
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: get fired. You have to fight for the bands for
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: how much they make, for where they play, for who
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: they play for. And if you don't do that, you're
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: not being a good manager. You're not you should get fired.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: So I've always had two hats, sometimes on certain acts,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: not lot of them, but I've always you gotta be
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: a promoter. When you're a promoter first for the band,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: and you gotta be a manager, and your manager first.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: You don't do that. Okay. We mentioned a number of
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: times at the beginning of your career when bamston't sell
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: out being a good promoter. What is the essence of
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: being a good promoter? Okay? How do you sell tickets
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: for an act? It doesn't sell out instantly? Okay? Let
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: me tell you what I did. How it was different
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: in two there is now I would I would. I
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: heard about this great guitar player named Leo Cocky who
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: had never played bold or Denver. I had a band
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I was playing for me and they said that he
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: had opened for them. Uh, they had opened for him
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: in Omaha, Nebraska, and he was brilliant. I went through
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: the record store, bought his record, flipped out this is one.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: It's like his third album, maybe second. Took it down
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: to the radio station, which was kr on W, which
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: became KBCO which have been the number one rock station
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: in this town forever, played it for him. They loved it,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and they started playing the crap out of it. There
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: was no playlists then, there was no testing records. Then
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: if they liked the band or right, maybe partied a
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: little with the DJs, they got to play it and
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I would sell out for the first time. Say a
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: funny story, first time I had J. J. Klee who
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I loved him. John Kale was the greatest, by the way.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: His real name was John, but he couldn't be called
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: John Kale because John there was another John Kale, and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: because of the union, you can't have the same name
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: from Delvet Underground, so he's his Denny Cordell from Shelter
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Records changed his name to j J. Nicest, Sweetest hill
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Billy from Tulsa. All he did is want to fish
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: and write songs. Really didn't like playing. He played once
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: a year to pay his income Texas because he wrote
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of hits for Eric Clapton. After midnight, all
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: these different songs. He came, He came into town, walked
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: in the door for a sound check. I was standing
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: outside and said, I am Chuck Morrison. I owned the
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: pilates and there's a line around the block. And he
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: looked at me very seriously and said, who am I
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: opening for? I mean, Cale never thought about money or
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: who he's playing with or anything. It was just a
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: brilliant songwriter. And just you say, Cal that that's how
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: we sold tickets. We got him on the radio. Needless
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: to say, that same paradigm doesn't exist today. Radio stations
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: have tight playlists. Uh. Younger generation listens to terrestrial radio less.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: How do you promote a band today? Get pressed for him? Uh?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Word of mouth? Um, get the record stores to tell
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: them that if they move the record up to a
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: better position, it's selling like crazy in color, out of springs.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: They want to think about it, little things. There's still
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: ways now I might get used to be though it's
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: much it's those tricks are not that effect anymore. It's
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: a different business business. Are there any new tricks that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: are effective? Uh? Well, the same trick as always bring
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: a band in as an opening act. Who's great? And
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: let them develop their own fans right here as an
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: opening act, put him on a big show. How many
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: times you've been married, chuck? Uh three? But my wife
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: now is thirty years. How old were you when we
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: were married the first time? Jesus asking personal questions here? Yeah,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: we get down gritty, pardon the pun. It was my
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: high school and college girlfriend. Okay, because you you were
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: so far ahead of the game. You were young, so
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: that might have made it difficult on a relationship level.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: It was a very bad marriage, and the last that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: it was very short. I was still a graduate student.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: She came out to Colorado had graduated also in a
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: young age, and was a school teacher. And we broke
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: up after a year. And then what was second wife? Yes,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: at last or ten years? I have two beautiful children
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: and my third wife, who was great. We have three
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: three kids, so it's unusual. I guess the question I'm
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: asking this is a business that's seven. Has it affected
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: your relationships? Um? You know, I have a wife that
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: loves what I do, believe it or not, and loves
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: me watching me work, and loves music. I had another
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: wife that didn't like it, and I spent too much
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: time you gotta find the right girl for that, gotta
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: get lucky and will your wife come to your gigs?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, So tell us about the development
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: of Red Rocks into the monolith it ultimately be has become. Well,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: you know it started um. In fact, here's a little
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: trivia question. The Beatles played Red Rocks and there were
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: very few rock shows in the sixties and Red Rocks,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: in fact, very few. It was the only Beatles show
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: ever in America that didn't sell out. We did sixties
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: six I can promote it was before I was in
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: the business. Uh, you know, did people because people weren't
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: used to going there. They had church services there, they
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: had lectures there, they had different stuff, but very little music.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: In fact, when Faye and I started to started doing
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of shows at Red Rocks, the city try
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: to stop having music and we had to go to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: court to convince them that we ought to do more shows.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: And the funny part is they stopped us from doing
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: a band called America, which is as soft as it
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: could be. And we went we had I asked some
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: of my friends testify that it was a great thing
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: for the community and that America for God's sakes, you
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: don't riot to America, I mean, but we won and
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: now our company does over shows a year at Red
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Rocks up till the latest tragedy where we're doing none. Okay,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: So Red Rocks is an open building. How do you
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: compete with other promoters? In Red Rocks? You get the bands,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: relationship with bands or the agent or the manager. Um,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: we we do majority shows. My whole company Live Nation
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: when I ran that, we did the majority. But I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: took my key guys Do and Brenton mostly company with
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: us and we do a lot more than they do.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: It's still relationships. You say they are, but it's still relationships.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: You may not have the long relationships like from beginning
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: to end their careers, but it's still relationships. Okay. And
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: a couple of memorable shows at Red Rocks. What can
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: you tell us? Well, I did with Faye the YouTube
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: the famous You two show that was a video. And
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: the great story was it was snowing that day and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Barry and I had booked the US Festival the weekend before.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: We did the second year of the US Festival for
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Steve Wozniak. We were flying back from Santa Barbara from
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: the show and we're flying and you two was that
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: night flying over Red Rocks, landing in Denver and it
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: was snowing, and Faye was freaking out, and you know
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: the man put up Paul McGinnis, who I loved to death,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: their manager for years and retired a while ago. He
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: put a second on his house to put up money.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: I put up money he borrowed from Faye for myself,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: from friends to put up money to make that video
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: which broke the band, of course, no question. So we
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: got off the foot the plane and Barry's freaking out,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: saying we gotta move it inside. In those days, you
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: can move the equipment wasn't like it is today. You
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: can move a show. If it was by noon, you
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: could move it indoors to the old Denver Colosseum. And
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: he was afraid we wouldn't have a show. And I said, Barry,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: there's no way they put up their life savings for this.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: He said, I'm gonna get him on the phone. He
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: went to a pay phone at d I A actually
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: was staple with him then, and called Paul McGinnis that
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: stage who was setting up, and said, you gotta move
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: the show. It's snowing. We're not gonna have it, will
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: never make it. And McGinnis said, we put our heart
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: and soul to this. We don't care, and let me
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: get Bottle on the phone. Who we had? We had
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: did his first state in Denver at the Rainbow Music Hall.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I became really good friends with the band. In fact,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: I took him out for dinner on a vacation and
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: dub them one year and Bio said, Barry, we put
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: our life savings into this. I don't care if it
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: snows all over us, We're gonna play. And it turned
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: out that cold weather and that air coming out of
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: his mouth, and and and and the freezing made that
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: video exactly when he's marched around with the flag. Okay,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: since you're a fountain of tales, any other tales you
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: want to put in here before we wrap up? Oh God,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: there were so many great shows. It's really hard to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: say one from the other. But I would say the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: first show we did with Willie and Whalen when we
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: took over their tour because their previous promoter had gone
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: out of business. And we started doing Willy William and
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: the Outlaws for a couple of years all over the country,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: and it was the first time I had done Willie
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: at my club and got to know WILLI he had
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: moved to Colorado actually for a while. But the first
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: time fail and done Willie and in a bit at
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Red Rocks, and that was magical. He's still magical. He's
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: an amazing guy. Now what we know? There's been a
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: music business forever, but the confluence of the Boomers and
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: the Beatles blew it up. Okay, both the record business,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: which referenced earlier, and certainly the live business. What do
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: we know? The boom racks, the classic rock acts are
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: dying or will literally be off the stage within ten years.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: Does it matter that they're gone? Or is the business
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: so big that as long as you're somebody to put
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: on stage it will all be healthy. Well, I want
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: to disagree on one thing. I remember it was a
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: famous old quote from Mick Jagger saying he wouldn't be
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: singing when he was thirty. He's now what on this tour?
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Where that weird AG's doing? I think? Okay, So I'm
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: not so sure that five or ten years some of
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: them might still be playing. But you're right, they're gonna
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: die away or retire. I don't know. About retiring, but hey, Williams,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: in his late ages, he still play. I mean, okay,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: but when when those acts expire, whether it be five
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: years or twenty, okay, when they can no longer play
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: live or no longer here, will that affect the live business?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: I think not that much. I think the live business
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: has become such a part of our of our life,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: of our economy, of our soul in America that I think,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: you know, the young bands from the eighties and nineties
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: are gonna be around, and they've been some pretty good ones,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: you know, the YouTube era. They're so relatively young, so
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I I think it will hurt a little bit, But um,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: I think music is going to stay around for a
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: long time, especially in Colorado where it is such a
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: part of our psychic Well, this has been wonderful, Chuck.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks for your history, your stories, and your insight, and
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: I wish you luck and continued success with your Colorado
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: State University venture in the music business. Thanks so much
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: for doing this. Yeah, well, thank you, and uh Donn
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: and Brent are gonna make it even bigger as they
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: take over. Right now, I'm totally convinced that those boys
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: are the greatest. Until next time. This is Bob left
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: six h