Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Sheila Davalloo - Master Manipulator - Part 1

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Sheila Davalloo - Master Manipulator - Part 1 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In the early two thousands, a successful research scientist in
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: New York appeared to be living a stable, well ordered
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: life with a strong career and respected place in her field. Privately, however,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: she was maintaining a secret relationship and carefully managing a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: web of lies that few people around her suspected. And then,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: when a woman connected to an affair she was having
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: was found stabbed to death in her apartment, police had
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: no reason to look her direction, and months later, a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: disturbing incident inside her own home forced investigators to re
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: examine everything they thought they knew. This is the story
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: of the master manipulator known as Sheila Davalu.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: and Grim true crime podcast.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Warning the following material in more mature audience. Listener discretion.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Don't get mad at me. But this is part one
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: of a two parter episode.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. I don't think it was planned to be
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: a two parter, but it wasn't. It's a lot going on, right,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: In this story, so yeah, it soon became a two parter.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: And I know we just recently did a two parter,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: but I'm sorry it's happening again. And trust me, though,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: it is worthwhile for this story to go deep and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: make it a two parter, because gosh darn, there is
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: a lot to it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Gosh dang, gosh diddaly dang it.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I wanted to swear like a sailor there, but I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: held back.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Could you tell, Bob, I did actually tell a little bit.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is definitely an interesting story and I'm
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: stoked to get into it. But before we do get
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: into it, we got to do a big old thank
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: you for everyone out there who chimed in, commented, and
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: messaged us regarding our new opening that we've been trying
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: out on the show. We asked for your feedback and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: we heard you. We had conversations on Patreon, we got messages,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. We read them. We went
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: over it, and there's a bit of repetitive repetitiveness. There's
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a bit of giving away of the story in this
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: intro a little bit too long. So we've tried to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: condense it and bring it down to something that's really
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: more setting the scene, bringing you into what it's going
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: to be like leading up to the story, rather than
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: giving anything away. So we had people who said that
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: they really like it as well. So we're trying to
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: find this this best of boatword balance a balance that's
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: a good way of putting it. Yeah, So in today's episode,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: we're trying out the new set the tone, set the scene,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: kind of opening, set the mood.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: It is pretty cool though that you know we need
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: help or want feedback or opinions on something, and how
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: many people did take the time to do that, so,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: which is awesome because that only helps make the show
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: better and something you want to listen to.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, so we're growing Wicketing Grim together and we're
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: turning it into a show that you guys can enjoy
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: a little bit more. So, thank you for that feedback.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I have kind of set the tone a little bit
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: before in previous episodes all throughout the last five years
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: of Wicketing Grim, but I think I kind of want
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to make it. I think that's what I'm trying to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: lead into, is I'm trying to bring that into something
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: that's more prevalent in the show, really setting that tone,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: bringing you into the story. And I think I was
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: just going about it the wrong way and I think
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you guys got me on track.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, you got to experiment with stuff,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: right and for sure see how it feels, and then
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: you're going to know what you want to do.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: So but I'm confident I nailed it on this.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: One, Okay, are you? I am that confident.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I'm that confident because I talk about the stuff like
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the dynamics of the story without giving anything away.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And I also don't really get repetitive, so I'll just
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: let you judge for yourself. Okay, Okay, should I get
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: into it?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to hear it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So for many young professionals, life follows a very familiar rhythm,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: very long workdays, crowded commutes, and evenings spent trying to
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: balance ambition and a personal life. Offices, for example, can
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: become second homes. Coworkers turn into friends, and sometimes they
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: even become more than that. Spending so much time together, well,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: it can blur boundaries. People share lunches, frustrations, private worries,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and late nights. Friendships form quickly in gossips will they
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: spread even faster, and even small disagreements can turn into
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: workplace drama. Romantic connections can even appear in places no
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: one expects, and for many couples, well, this environment can
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: create a lot of strain partners well, they learned to
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: live on opposite schedules and conversations or even life moments
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: can get postponed. Problems get pushed aside for the favor
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: of dealing with it later. It creates a sort of distance,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't always mean physical separation. Sometimes it means
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: two people living under the same roof while drifting further
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: apart emotionally. Still, despite this, people make it work, and
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: most lives they remain stable, good jobs, a place to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: call home, social circles, and weekend plans. But for some
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: people beneath that surface, tensions can grow. In offices and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: apartment complexes around southern New York and Connecticut, relationships were
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: quietly and raveling like this in two thousand and two.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Long work hours and close working relationships had created an
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: environment where professional boundaries were beginning to be crossed and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: secrets were being kept. What no one understood, though, was
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: that in this case, things were building towards something that
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: would end in serious violence, betrayal, and even murder. Dun, Dun, Dun,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: there we go. That's my opening.
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  Speaker 2: That was literally what just went through my head dunt
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: dun dun. So.
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  Speaker 1: I hope I didn't give too much away, and I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: hope I hooked you with just enough information to make
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: you feel like you can almost relate, you can picture it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And with that we're going to get into the actual story.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: You ready, Yeah, I am. I feel very ready right now,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to be honest, Okay, more so than usual, I'm glad.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Sheila was born on May eleventh, nineteen sixty nine, in Iran,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: during a period of very very much so political instability
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: that would soon erupt into full scale revolution. Now in
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, as Iranian revolution intensified and daily
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: life became increasingly dangerous, her family made the decision to
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: leave the country. Like many fleeing the turmoil, they immigrated
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: to the United States in search of safety and stability.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: They eventually settled into Yorktown Heights, a quiet, affluent suburb
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of Westchester County, New York. Her parents were medical and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: health professionals, and education was treated as a non negotiable
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in their household. Academic achievement was not exactly encouraged. In fact,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: it was more so expected, so from an early age,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Sheila was pushed towards excellence, discipline, and measurable success. Now,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: as such, mistakes were not exactly easily forgiven. Emotional vulnerability
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: was something that was not openly discussed, and to put
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: it simple, what mattered most was performance, good grades, strong credentials,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and a respectable public image to go with it. Friends
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: described her upbringing as very strict and highly structured, with
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: little tolerance for any sort of failure. Sheila learned early
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: how to present herself as being capable, reliable, and composed
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: even when she was struggling internally, which over time this
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: became second nature. One of the most significant influences in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: her personal life was her younger brother. Now. Her younger
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: brother had suffered from very severe mental illnesses, including schizophrenia.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: His condition required constant attention from the family, and Sheila
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: became deeply protective of him. She often framed herself as
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: his emotional anchor and caretaker. Now, according to people close
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: to her, Sheila was genuinely concerned about her brother and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: how he might react to major changes in her life.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: She worried that he would feel abandoned if he believed
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: she was forming attachments that did not include him, for example,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and this fear, whether real exaggerated or strategically used, became
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: a very central part of how she explained her actions
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  Speaker 1: to other people now throughout her adolescence. In early adulthood,
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  Speaker 1: Sheila was known as quiet and studious who was also
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: not a heavy drinker. She did not party or draw
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: attention to herself socially. Instead, she focused almost entirely on
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: school and career preparations. She spoke multiple languages, she excelled academically,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and she followed the path that her family had laid
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: out for her. Her life was very stable and impressive,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: but what almost no one saw was how carefully she
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: managed information about herself. From an early stage, Sheila learned
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: to decide what people were allowed to know and what
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: they were not allowed to know. Personal details were filtered,
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  Speaker 1: stories were adjusted, and inconvenient truths were well they were
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: quietly erased or swept under the rug, and over time,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: this habit of controlling perception would become very central to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: how she would navigate people in the world around her.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: She sounds quite interesting, but she almost sounds like I
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  Speaker 2: guess she was slightly groomed for this too.
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  Speaker 1: Writ She was definitely groomed in a certain sense of
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: that word. Her parents put her in very high standards
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: for success.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: For education, but I mean they were both very successful themselves,
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  Speaker 2: so I can kind of understand them having you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit of high expectations for her as well,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: because she has that opportunity. But then also it doesn't
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: sound like it was the most warm of upbringings exactly.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Having high standards or high expectations is one thing, because
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: you can go beyond healthy in that regard, and I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: think with that they definitely did, because in this case,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: you're going to really as we talk about it, you're
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: going to find out that Sheila was clearly craving more.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's because of how her upbringing was and how
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  Speaker 1: her parents treated her. Maybe she didn't get attention or anything,
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  Speaker 1: but when she received attention from people, that became the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: biggest focus, something that she honed in on and even
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  Speaker 1: fixated on.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Well, she probably only received the attention after, like she
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: got a good grade or did something right, And so
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: with her just being herself, I bet you that didn't
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: get her the attention that she wanted, right, she had
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: to earn it in a sense.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: That's true, But I have a feeling there's a potential
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: of if she got a good grade, it may not
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: have even been necessarily praised. If that's the expectation, that's
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: just simply standard. We expected that of you. It's not
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: We're not going to like celebrate it because that's just Hey,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to do that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, that is a that's that's hard, that's that doesn't
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: feel very good.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Now, I don't know that for sure. That's my perspective
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: on what I've been reading about it, that that could
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: likely be the situation. But either way, she definitely craved affection, attention,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and that sort of thing relationships, I guess.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Now, by the time that Sheila entered adulthood, her future
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: was already well basically mapped out. Following the expectations set
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: out by her parents, she pursued higher education with rather
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: relentless focus. She enrolled at Stonybrook University in New York,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: where she studied biochemistry, which is a very demanding field
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and it requires a lot of long hours, discipline, and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: technical precision, to say the least. But she was prepared
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and she performed very well, earning respect from professors and
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: peers alike. After completing her undergraduate degree, Sheila continued directly
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: into graduate school. She attended New York Medical College, where
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: she worked towards a master's degree in public health. The
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: program placed her along other high achieving students who were
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: preparing for careers in medicine, pharmaceutical research, and even scientific
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: and administration, but once again, she still stood out as
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: very capable and driven. During this period, however, her personal
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: life began to take its first complicated turn. Not long
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: after finishing high school, and under strong cultural and family expectations,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Sheila entered her first marriage. The relationship was arranged through
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: traditional channels, and although some accounts differ on how the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: formal arrangement was, it was widely understood that family pressure
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: played a major role in it. So she married a
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: man by the name of Farid Mussafi while she was
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: still very young. To people she knew, the marriage looked
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: appropriate and very respectable. They were two educated young people
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: from similar backgrounds building a life together, but privately the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: relationship it lacked a lot of emotional depth. Sheila was
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: immersed in her studies and Forarid, while he focused on
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: his own career too. They functioned more like roommates really
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: than romantic partners. In reality, now During this time, Sheila
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: began developing close relationships outside of her marriage. During her
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: time at New York Medical College, she met Paul Christos,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: another graduate student who was deeply involved in academic research.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: At first, their connection revolved around school. Paul ran a
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: private study group to help cover his tuition, and Sheila
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: had joined in on it. They spent hours working together
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: reviewing material and prepared for exams, and over time though
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the relationship it shifted. Conversations extended beyond just coursework. Study
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: sessions turned into long walks in late night talks emotional intimacy.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: While it developed quietly, and eventually that relationship crossed into
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: being a full on affair. When Farid discovered Sheila's involvement
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: with Paul, the marriage quickly unraveled. The scandal created tension
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: within her family, who had very high expectations on maintaining
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: appearances and honoring commitments. But not only that, divorce carried
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: a cultural consequence too. It was viewed as a failure
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and even an embarrassment. But despite all of this, Sheila
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: chose to leave the marriage and continue her relationship with Paul.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: This divorce marked a very huge turning point in her life.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: For the first time, she openly defied expectations. Yet even
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: then she worked carefully to manage how the situation was perceived.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: She didn't present herself as reckless or impulsive. Instead, she
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: framed the breakup as unfortunate but completely necessary.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking that this was probably the first
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: thing that she sort of did for herself in a way.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and in a sense you could say it's quote
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: unquote like rebelling for the first time, right.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Because her husband she didn't even have full control of
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: choosing him. No, Okay, I just wanted to clarify that.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Now, Again, there is some like gray areas and how
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that is all set up. It is a very culturally
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: thing or cultural thing. So I'm unaware on the exact
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: parameters on how this you know, prepared marriage was. But yeah,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it was not fully her call.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: And this other man she met, you know, through her
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: own means, and they had maybe more similar interests, and
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: we're spending a lot of time together, and so I
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: can kind of see how this went about, not saying
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: it it's right in any way, but that's true.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: But the bones of the situation remained the same. She
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: had entered a relationship still while committed to someone else
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: while married. Yes, she also concealed the two relationships she
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: had navigated, basically living two lives at once, and she
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: walked away without fully confronting the emotional fallout and responsibility
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: of what she'd done. She had an affair, and she's
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: essentially saying, yeah, well this had to happen.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So really not right at all exactly, So.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: She's manipulating the situation to make it look like it
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: was necessary, it had to happen. She's doing something for
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: herself for the first time, but in the reality is, well,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: you're still kind of a bitch.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, because her husband just like, I mean, look
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: at what he has to deal with now, right.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Exactly, And not only that, but the person that you're seeing,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: they had no idea about you being married either.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so not good at all now.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Paul he was not someone who easily fit into dramatic storylines.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: He was quiet, methodical, and he was deeply committed to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: his work. He was raised in a very close knit
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Greek American family in New York. Paul had grown up
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: in a household that valued very similar things as Sheila,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you know, education, discipline, and long term planning. Were all
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: very important, and from an early age he'd been focused
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: on building a very serious career in science and medicine.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: But by the time that he met Sheila, Paul was
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: already well on his way. He had earned multiple college
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: degrees and was studying at New York Medical College, working
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: towards advanced qualifications in epidemiology and medical research. His days
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: were filled with lectures, lab work, and teaching responsibilities. He
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: supported himself partly by you know, leading those private group
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: studies for other students, helping them prepare for exams while
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: earning that extra income to pay tuition. And it was
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: of course through these where he met you know, Sheila
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: for the very first time. But Paul was drawn to
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Shila's intelligence and confidence, and to him, she presented stability
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: and compatibility. The time, Paul was largely unaware of the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: complications she had in her personal life. He knew she
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: was going through a divorce now at this point, but
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: he didn't push for details. He wasn't aware that the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: relationship had actually developed while she was married, and that
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: their relationship kind of pushed for that divorce. He wasn't
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: suspicious by nature. He took her for her word that Oh, like,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: you're going through a divorce and that's kind of how
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: it's always been.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, So he is not aware that the divorce is
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: basically because of their relationship. No.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So he's a very stable individual. He's going through all
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: this sort of stuff like building his life, building his education,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: building his future career, and he finds someone he thinks
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: is just Hey, they're going through a divorce and they're
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: building a connection together. He had no idea of all
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: this underlying issues.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, well, yeah, he sounds kind of incredible, like
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: very motivated, very intelligent. Yes he is, and he's wanting
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: a partner to match that, but has no idea what
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: exactly she's all about. I guess.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So he is falling for someone, and quite literally because
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: he soon fell in love with her where he doesn't
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: actually know who she is right at least to a degree. Now.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Soon they got engaged with the approval of both families,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and so in May of two thousand, they were married
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: in a small, carefully planned ceremony attended by close friends
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and relatives. Sheila's parents helped provide the couple with a
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: condo in Pleasantville, New York, which gave them a very
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: solid foundation for married life. Two highly educated professionals with
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: strong family ties, good careers, and a comfortable home. What
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: they had was essentially picture perfect.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, So her family was alright with this, though, I mean,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I think they moved on to it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: They moved on to it, at least they approved of
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the marriage. Yes, Okay, So I mean I don't think
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: they had really much of a choice. She was going
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: through a divorce, Like, what do you do. It's either
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: abandon your child and you are no longer part of
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: this family because like dishonorment or she's moving on. She
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: found someone else. Okay, we approve of this.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Guy, right, I mean, and he is a good guy.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you do in that situation?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Now? After the wedding, Paul devoted himself even more fully
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to his studies. He enrolled in a doctoral program at
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Columbia University. He taught undergraduate classes several nights a week
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and spent long hours working on many research projects in
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: clinical trials. Sheila, while she did the same and focused
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: on her growing career in pharmaceutical research. Their schedules were
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: very demanding and they were often exhausted. The two told
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: themselves that This was simply what ambitious young professionals need
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: to endure. They believe that once their careers stabilized, they
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: would have more time for each other, and in the meantime,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: they focused on maintaining appearances and supporting each other's goals
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: for a future where well the hard years would eventually
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: pay off. But slowly the emotional space between them widened.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: They talked less about personal matters and more about logistics.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Conversation centered on schedules, on errands, and work stress, rather
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: than feelings or long term plans. Like most couples do,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: shared routines disappeared, meals were often eaten alone, and even
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: when they were in the same room, they were frequently
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: distracted by emails, paperwork, or fatigue. Sheila even began spending
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: more time socializing with colleagues after work. She joined a
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: volleyball league and attended regular happy hour evenings near the office,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. When they were together, she would just
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: talk about work. She described internal politics, rivalries, promotions, and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: conflicts between employees, and Paul listened patiently. He enjoyed hearing
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: about her work, as it was really the only thing
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: they actually connected with anymore. Their marriage, of course, had
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: begun to feel increasingly hollow, though, but Paul still remained
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: committed to it. He believed in patience and in loyalty.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: He assumed that hard work and time would resolve whatever
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: strain it existed. He never seen questioned Sheila's loyalty your intentions.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: In his mind, they were still partners working toward share goals. Sheila,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, well, she was growing restless. Throughout
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: her life. Sheila had been driven by validation, control, and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: emotional intensity. Professional success alone was never enough for her.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: She needed attention, she needed reassurance, and she needed to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: feel a central of like to be central of someone's life.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I guess growing up her parents focused on her right,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: focused on her achievements, focused on her succeeding, and that
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: sort of focus it became a craving. And then it
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: also coupled with, you know, having someone pay attention to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: her outside of just being successful also become a craving.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: So it kind of compiled.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: What you were describing though, as their marriage kind of now,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty common that that sort of thing happens.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: It does, right, it does, unfortunately, But yeah, like their marriage,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: it was just quiet and distant and I mean they
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: were no longer being like really met with each other,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I guess, and it is sorry, go.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Ahead, Well, they weren't really making the time to just
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: be together and do fun things together because like you said,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: she was going and hanging out with coworkers or she
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: joined volleyball, and at that time they could have been
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: doing maybe things together and that would have sort of helped.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. And people do drift apart, like that's understandable,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: but for them, they knew they were drifting apart. But
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the label that was being put on it was just, well,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: we'll get there one day. Right now, we have to
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: continue our studies.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It will get better, it will.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Get better, but it it'll get better one day, not
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: we'll make it better now. It was sometime in two
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: thousand and one, while working at Purdue Pharma in Stamford,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: that Sheila met Nelson Nelson Sessler, now, like Shila and Paul,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Nelson was highly educated and profess driven. He worked as
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: a research scientist within the company and was involved in
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: pharmaceutical development and clinical research. He was intelligent, well spoken,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: and respected by colleagues. In many ways, he fit the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: very same professional mold that Sheila and Paul had you know,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: ambitious discipline focused on building that successful career. Now, Sheila
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and Nelson began interacting through work related projects, you know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: meetings or shared office spaces, that sort of thing. They
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: spoke about assignments or deadlines, workplace issues, and overtime. Not
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: unlike Sheila had done in the past, those interactions became
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: more personal. They started spending longer periods of time together,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: talking after meetings and exchanging emails and messages that went
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: beyond professional matters. They began joining the same after work
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: gatherings too, and finding excuses even to cross paths during
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the day. For Sheila, this attention was intoxicating. At home,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: her marriage had settled. Paul was supportive, but distant. He
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: was consumed by research teaching. He trusted her completely and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: rarely questioned where she went or who she spent time with.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: With Nelson, however, Sheila felt seen again. He listened closely
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: to her. He complimented her intelligence and ambition. He gave
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: her the emotional focus that she seemed to be missing.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: What began as flirtation soon turned into private lunches, into
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: long phone calls and even secret meetings. By the summer
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of two thousand and one, Sheila and Nelson were in
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: a full blown affair, and they arranged of schedules to
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: spend time alone with each other, often during work hours
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: or even after office events. Now, this affair became intense,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and Sheila grew deeply attached to him in a very
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: short period of time. And at the center of this
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: relationship was a very critical deception. Nelson didn't know Sheila
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: was married.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask that she should not be married.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: No, she shouldn't.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Is he also married?
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: We'll get into.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: It, ah, Okay.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: She never told them about Paul, and she carefully avoided
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: situations where the two men might cross paths. This pattern,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of course, wasn't something new to her. She'd done this
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: very sort of similar thing when she met Paul while
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: she was still married with her first husband. Now Sheila
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: had developed a system for keeping her husband Paul, and
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend Nelson completely separate from each other. This system
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: depended on a lie that she repeated so often it
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: became routine, and she repeated it even when she was
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: young and a kid that her mentally ill brother was
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: coming to stay with her. Now, Sheila told Paul that
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: her brother suffered from serious mental health problems and would
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: become upset or even unstable if he knew she was married.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: So because of this, she claimed, it was essential that
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Paul not be present whenever her brother visited. So when
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: these supposed visiteds were scheduled, Paul was expected to leave
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: their condo in time. And I mean full on leave,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: like pack an overnight bag, stay away for an entire weekend,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: even remove every visible trace of himself from the apartment.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I'm talking clothes, toiletries, personal items, photos, PaperWorks. All of
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it were packed away.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I don't like that.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: No, anything that suggested that she was married had to
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: be hidden.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: How could anyone not question that? I can't even vathom
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: doing that to you. You would just be like, hell.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: No, Well, Paul thinks he's being supportive. Oh, I guess
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you look seriously uncomfortable.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I am very uncomfortable with this because I I don't know.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I can understand it, I guess, But it also doesn't
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: make any sense.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So I'm just she's a seriously manipulative person. So she's
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: making it seem like, Okay, Paul, you have to do
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: this for my mentally ill or what. However, you want
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: to frame it brother, who I'm very supportive of, he's
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: very close in my life. You cannot meet him because
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: he will go into an episode. Will you cannot be here,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I can't be married because he will see you as
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: a threat, So you and every trace has to leave.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And as a supportive husband, he's saying, no problem, I
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: support you and your brother. I'm here for you. I
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: will do what you need.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, But really the brother is the brother would probably
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: be fine with her.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Being married, not necessarily. Now, she did have she used
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: as as an excuse when she was younger, in like
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: dating or other people, you know, an excuse of going
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: out or people coming over over, whatever it was. She
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: used it as an excuse. Whether she was actually believing
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: that or whether she was making it up, we don't
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: really know, but one way or another, this is a
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: situation that she actually used as an excuse. I don't
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: know if her brother would have actually been okay with it.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But the part is though her brother actually wasn't coming over,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: which I'm sure you already are put two and two.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Together, yes, which I think is why I'm also very
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable right now.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she was simply using this as an excuse
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: for now. These visits with her brother, quote unquote happened
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: very regularly. According to later court records and testimony, they
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: occurred at least once a month, and sometimes more often.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: What Paul didn't know, of course, during these periods is
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Sheila was inviting Nelson to stay at the apartment, and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: because all signs of Paul's presence was gone and removed,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Nelson believed Sheila lived alone and was single. Now was
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: months past. Sheila's emotional investment in Nelson only grew stronger.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: She began to see him less as an affair partner
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: and more as a person that she truly wanted to
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: be with. Her attachment became very intense and even possessive.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: She monitored his movement, She worried about his attention drifting,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and she became anxious when he seemed distracted or even unavailable.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Her whole sense of self worth became increasingly tied to
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: his feelings toward her. And now at the same time,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Nelson was hiding something of his own because he was
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: in a long term relationship with another woman. As you
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: kind of already asked, he wasn't married, but he was
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone named Analisa Rimando.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Just two winners right now.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: He had been dating Analisa before becoming involved with Sheila,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and had continued seeing her too now. Like Sheila, he
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: kept the two relationships separate and avoided revealing the truth
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: of either woman. For a time. All three people existed
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: inside this overlapping kind of love triangle of lies, but
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it's fragile structure. It wasn't something that could last. While
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Sheila was using her brother visits quote unquote lie to
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: physically separate Paul and Nelson, she was also managing the
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: emotional side of her double life through a second, more
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: subtle form of manipulation. Created an ongoing story about a
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: supposed love triangle at work, and used it in a
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: way to talk openly about her affair with her husband
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Paul without him realizing the truth. She frequently spoke about
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: three coworkers, Melissa, Jack, and Anna Lisa in these three
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: three you know stories of these people. Melissa was a
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: close friend of hers who was romantically involved with Jack,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: while Jack was also interested in another woman named Ana Lisa.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Sheila presented this as workplace drama that she had become
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you know emotionally invested in she's watching from the outside.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: She described arguments, jealousy, confusion, the shifting loyalties between three
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: people sort of thing, all those things that we see
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: in a love triangle. She's describing this to Paul. And
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: what Paul didn't know was that this Melissa was actually
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Sheila herself, and Jack was Nelson, and Analisa was well
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Anna Lisa Romando. Now, the supposed love triangle she discussed
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: almost daily was not about coworkers. It was her own relationship,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and she used this story to involve Paul in her
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: private emotional conflicts. She asked him for advice about what
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: should Melissa do. She described conversations and interactions that she'd
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: actually experienced herself, but framed them as secondhand information trying
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: to get, you know what, an opinion from her husband.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: This is really disturbing. How could she be doing this
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to her husband? I know that is so cruel.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And Paul seems like the most genuine, nice dude I've
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: ever heard of.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you also wonder how could he not how
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: could he not be? Like, how does she know so
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: much about this? Because she probably knows a lot, right,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and if she was just watching this from the outside,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: would she know this much about all the situations and scenarios.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's Melissa's telling her, is what she's saying.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Her friend, Melissa is telling her all this information, and
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: so she's seeing it. She's also getting inside and from her.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: But really she is Melissa Ah, so disturbing. So she's
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: just like, well, Melissa told me this, But it's like, no, bitch,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: you live that you that was you.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: You would love this though. You're You're all about gossip,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So if I was coming home with this kind of tea,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you would be all for it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I think I'm a bit of a gossip queen. I'm
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: not gonna lie. I don't like I don't like, you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the celebrity gossip and stuff. I don't give a shit
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: about that. But I do like personal life, real life gossip,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: even if it's like person I don't know, but it's
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: like it's happening in the town of Oh, this is
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: so and So's friend, and I'm like, oh, tell me
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: about so and So's friend. How much of a bit
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: she is? You know, I eat that shit up.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Would you question this at all? Then? Do you think
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: at some point would you start to question this.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Oh definitely, yeah, definitely, I'm not that dumb.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying you're dumb.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Anyways, I digress now, when Nelson pulled away, when he
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: seemed distant, when he grew closer to Anna Lisa, Sheila
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: would present these developments through these you know, fictional character
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: lens of the workplace friends, and Paul listened and offered guidance,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: trying to engage in his wife's life and help some
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: of her friends along the way. He encouraged her to
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: be patient, you know, suggested communication and tried to be reasonable.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: But in doing so, he's unknowingly helped Sheila process her
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: own jealousy, frustration, and affair. Now. As time passed, the
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: stories became more detailed and more intense. Sheila spoke about
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Melissa spying on an Lisa. She claimed they followed her movements,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and she mentioned listening to voicemails, watching her schedule, and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: showing up unexpectedly in places that Analsa frequented. She even
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: told Paul that Melissa wanted to break into Annalisa's apartment
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: to look for photographs. Her life increasingly revolved around monitoring
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Nelson's relationship with Annalisa. Meanwhile, Analisa still had no idea
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: what she was, you know, being portrayed as or being
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: at the center of some sort of love triangle or anything.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: She simply worked at pharmaceutical research place, and she built
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: a very strong professional reputation. Colleagues described her as intelligent, reliable,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: focused on her career. She'd worked at Purdue Pharma for
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: several years before later accepting a position at Pharmacia in
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: New Jersey. Even after changing companies, she continued working remotely
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: from her condo in Stamford, Connecticut, which allowed her to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: remain close to Nelson. Unlike Sheila, who concealed major parts
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: of her life, Annalisa was generally very transparent about her relationship.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: She introduced Nelson to people in her life and treated
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: him as a very serious partner rather than a casual companion,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: and she wasn't seeing anyone else in the side. Nelson
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: was her only boyfriend to say, and Annalisa's job became
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: more flexible too, so her time together with Nelson only increased.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Nelson's relationship with Annalisa well. It started to develop quickly.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: They spent most nights together, traveling on weekends, began discussing
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: long term plans. Even this shift marked another turning point
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: for Sheila, because Nelson was no longer dividing his attention
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: between the two women, between Analisa and her. He was
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: choosing Analisa. So through workplace gossip and her own surveillance efforts,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Sheila gradually pieced together the reality of the relationship. She
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: learned where Annalisa lived, She learned her schedule, She learned
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: when Nelson stayed overnight. Although saying she was describing to
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: her husband Paul that Melissa was doing, that's the sort
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: of thing, she was actually going and doing, And rather
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: than accepting the new reality, Sheila became increasingly focused on
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Annalisa herself. She followed her movements and monitored when Nelson visited.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: She paid attention to her work schedule. She learned that
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Annalisa often worked from home alone and spent long stretches
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in her condo during the day.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: She's basically becoming a stalker.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: She is becoming a stalker. By late two thousand and two,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: she wasn't competing for Nelson's attention. She was studying Analisa's
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: life as if she was a threat, and, like you said,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: already stalking her. She knew her routines, habits, vulnerabilities. Analisa
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: represented everything Sheila felt she was losing. She was the
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: woman Nelson had chosen. She was the barrier between Sheila
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and the future that she wanted. Sheila began accessing Nelson's voicemails.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: She was going farther this time. She's obtaining passwords allowing
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: her to listen to private messages between him and Alisa.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Though these recordings and through it all, she learned about
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: their schedules, travel plans, personal conversations, and she even forwarded
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: some of the messages to herself and replayed them repeatedly,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: listening and searching for signs of weakness or uncertainty in
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: the relationship. Using this information, Sheila started engineering coincidental encounters.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: She should appear at places where Nelson and Analisa were
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: scheduled to be, pretending the meetings were accidental. On at
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: least one occasion, she arranged to sit next to Nelson
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: on a flight after learning his travel plans.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Even, Oh, that is so creepy, how is she even
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: doing this?
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Pure stalking now? These encounters were designed to remind him
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of her presence while avoiding any sort of suspicion that
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: she could.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: But are they still together at this point too?
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Not really no.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, but she's still just there reminding him all the
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: time that she yes, is a present life or whatever.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Definitely. Now, I don't think they were ever necessarily like
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: a relationship partner wise. I think it was more just
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: like a casual thing and like, you know, flirting, and
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: you know, the sex was becoming a thing, and that
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: was building, and then as it's building and hey, it
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: might actually start into something real and serious, then it
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: starts dropping. As Analisa and Nelson's relationship starts building and
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: actually builds to the point where they're in a legitimate relationship.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: So now he's dropping Sheila because he's in an actual relationship.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, but still a terrible person really, Oh yeah,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Because I don't think Anna Lisa would have approved of
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: what was all going on here.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I don't think he was dating to women,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: but he was definitely seen to women, if that makes sense.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: So maybe me as far as my understanding, okay, I mean,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: maybe he wasn't doing anything wrong If they were open
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: to seeing other people at the time, who knows.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying they were or they weren't okay. So,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, though, Sheila was going to extreme
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: lengths to try and put herself into his life, to
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: remind him, and to even monitor because like she would
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: even borrow night vision binoculars and electronic listening equipment from
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: her husband Paul, claiming they were for a coworker who
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: wanted to monitor a cheating partner.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Wow, she has way too much time I'm on her hands.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: She does. She even purchased lock picking tools, stun guns,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and again, you know, presenting them as items meant for
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Melissa or anything like that.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Right, girl, you need a hobby.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: She does. Now. Paul was getting uncomfortable with some of
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: these things, but as always, he was very trusting in
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: his wife. Despite all these efforts, though, Nelson continued to
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: distance himself, and by mid two thousand and two, he
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: was spending most nights with Anna Lisa and limiting contact
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: with Sheila altogether. Their conversations became shorter, he stopped responding
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: as quickly as he did before, he declined invitations from
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: and from Sheila's perspective, her influence over him was slipping away.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I honestly think Sheila's influence over Nelson was pretty much
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: gone at this point. It basically was, you're right, and
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I think her husband, Paul is a freaking saint.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: He is, like I said, he's like the nicest guy
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I've ever read about, just the.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Fact he's just trusting her, like to this point still.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Well, and not only that, he is grinding to build
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the life that they want, and through it all he's
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: trusting her. And the only connection he has with her
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: is talking about work and the drama at her work.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Oh so he's involving himself so that they can have
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: some time together. It hurts my heart, I know, right,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: like he is like I want to marry Paul, Oh
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: my god, like seriously, like he would treat me good.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I know he would.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say that, but I thought that would
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: be weird if I said that. But yeah, he seems
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: like the perfect husband in a sense.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: He does, he really does.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Probably doesn't give a shit about this gossip, but like
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: it's important to her, so he is trying to help
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: and listen and he probably has other things on his
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: fucking mind that is way more important than this, but
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: he's still being present to her.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Exactly now. By the fall of two thousand and two,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Nelson's commitment to a Lisa was very clear to her.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: He was no longer you're balancing to relationships. He had
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: made a choice, and for most people that would generally
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: be the end of a situation. But for Sheila, she
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: no longer viewed Nelson's withdrawal as a personal rejection. She
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: instead interpreted it as something different, that Anna Elisa had
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: caused all this. In her mind, the problem was not
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Nelson had chosen someone else. The problem was Anna Lisa existed.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: On the morning of Friday, November eighth, two thousand and two,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Sheila followed her usual routine. She arrived at Purdue Pharma
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Stamford in Connecticut in the office shortly after eight am,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: swiping her security badge at eighth nine am, and settling
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: into her workplace. Just want to say, I'm pretty sure
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: that she's nine minutes late for work.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: But whatever, Okay, I was wondering, I'm like, or does
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: she start at eight thirty?
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: She's probably nine minutes late for work.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Hopefully she's got a lot going on this gal, right.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: So I mean, why does she have time for work?
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But I digress. She attended her responsibilities and interacted with
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: colleagues as she typically dead. But at ten fifty three am,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: she swiped your badge again and left the building. Security
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: records later showed that she did not return until one
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: fifty three PM, a three hour absence that would eventually
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: become very central to this investigation. Now. At the time,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: extended lunch breaks were not exactly unusual, especially for her,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and no one immediately questioned it. Very flexible office, apparently,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: but this wasn't a typical long lunch, you see. After
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: leaving work, she drove approximately ten minutes to Harbor Drive
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: condo complex overlooking Long Island Sound, where Annalisa lived in
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Unit one oh five. Annalisa was working at home that day.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: She was alone in her apartment, dressed in casual jeans
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and a white sweater, and she had no reason to
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: expect any visitors. When Sheila arrived at the complex, she
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: parked her car and walked up to the exterior stairs
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: and towards Annalisa's home. According to later reconstructuctions, she carried
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: with her a five inch long blade in her pocket,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: a knife. When she reached the door, she knocked and
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: called out in a friendly voice, identifying herself as a
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: former coworker from Purdue. Anealisa recognized her and responded, telling
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: her to hold on a minute while she comes over
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: and opens the door. What happened next unfolded rapidly and
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: extremely violently inside the apartment. Once the door was opened,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: a confrontation began almost immediately. Evidence collected at the scene
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: showed that the two women moved through multiple rooms during
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: a struggle. Furniture was overturned, plants were knocked over, and
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: objects were scattered across the floor. There was broken glass, dirt,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: leaves spilt from planters, and they were all mixed with
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: a large amount of blood that was everywhere, indicating that
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Analisa fought desperately to try and defend herself. The attack
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: was brutal. An Lisa was stabbed at least nine times
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: in the face, neck, chest, and upper body. One wound
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: was so deep that the blade penetrated right through her
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: chest and into her lung. In addition to the stab wounds,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: she suffered blunt force injuries as well, suggesting she'd been
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: struck or at least thrown hard against surfaces during the struggle.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Blood splatter covered the walls, hallway, and floor, forming pools
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: and streaks that traced the path of the fight through
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: the apartment. The volume and distribution of blood alone told
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: a story, and it indicated that Annalisa remained conscious for
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: a period of time as she fought back and attempted
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: to escape, before finally succumbing to her injuries. At some
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: point during the attack, Annalisa collapsed in the hallway, and
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: that is where Sheila left her to lay bleeding. She
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: was found lying on her back with one leg extended
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: and the other bent up against a box, and her
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: clothing soaked through with crimson blood.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, this poor thing.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Paramedics later confirmed that she had lost a massive amount
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: of blood and had not died quickly.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Oh no, and she really has done absolutely fucking nothing nothing. Oh,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Sheila is a crazy bitch.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah she is now. After killing Anealisa, Sheila did an
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: attempt to clean the apartment of the crime scene. Instead,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: she went to the bathroom leaned against the sink, trying
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: to compose herself as she looked at herself in the mirror,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: and while there, she wiped blood from her face and
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: her hands, But unbeknownst to her, she sustained a small
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: cut on her hand and a tiny drop of her
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: blood found its way onto the faucet handles. This tiny
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: drop of blood would later become the most important piece
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: of forensic evidence in the case. Now from there, she
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: then put on her coat, wrapped it tightly around herself
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and concealed the bloodstains on her clothing and left the apartment.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: She returned to her car and drove to a nearby
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: restaurant where there was a public payphone. She placed an
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: anonymous call here to nine one one, using a dressed tone.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: She told the despatcher that she believed someone was attacking
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: her neighbor in apartment one oh five, and of course
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: she didn't give her name and hung up quickly after
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: providing the address. Police officers were already patrolling the area
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: nearby and arrived to the complex within minutes, and when
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: they knocked and received no answer at Annalisa's door, they
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: found it was unlocked and entered cautiously and inside they
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: saw the bloody scene and discovered Annalisa's body in the
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: hallway and immediately called for medical assistance and back up.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Emergency responders soon arrived and confirmed that Annalisa was dead
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: on the scene. Meanwhile, Sheila drove back to New York
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: and returned to Purdue Pharma at one fifty three pm.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: She swiped her badge and re entered the building, resuming
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: her work day as though nothing had happened at all.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: She just went back to work.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: She just went back to work.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: And did she not think that that would have been
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: questionable though? That she was just gone that whole.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess, not okay, not okay.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: So she actually isn't quite as smart as I thought.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Then she's manipulative, but that doesn't translate into intelligence, and
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: she's book smart, which doesn't translate into what people call
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: street smart. That evening, after Sheila had killed Annalisa, Sheila
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: went home to Pleasantville and spent a quiet night with
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: her husband Paul. When a coworker later called to inform
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: her that Anna Lisa had been murdered, well, she reacted
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: with apparent shock and expressed very fake ass sympathy, offering
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: no indication that she'd been involved whatsoever. At that point,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: no one connected her to the crime. The anonymous nine
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: one one call. The lack of forced entry, the absence
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: of any sort of obvious suspect left investigators with very
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: few immediate leads, But in the hours following Annalise's murder,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: detectives from the Stamford Police Department and the Connecticut State
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Police Major Crime Unit. They began working to try and
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: reconstruct what had happened inside Unit one of five and
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: find who was responsible. From the onset, the scene suggested
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: an intensely personal attack rather than a random act of violence.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: There was no sign of forced entry, no indication of theft,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and no evidence of the killer had even attempted to
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: conceal the crime in any shape or form. Instead, the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: apartment showed very clear signs of a prolonged physical struggle,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: with overturned furniture, shattered glass, and blood spread throughout multiple rooms.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Investigators focused first on establishing a timeline. The anonymous nine
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: one one call had come in during the early afternoon
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: reporting the assault in progress right so officers arrived quickly
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: and found Ane Lisa already des ceased. Medical examiners later
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: estimated that she had died not long before police entered
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: the apartment, so this placed the time of the death
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: within a very narrow window, late in the morning early
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: afternoon and consistent with when neighbors reported hearing unusual noises
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: and security footage showing limited activity in the building. Attention,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: of course, quickly turned into a direction that every typical
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: murder does to the significant other. To Analisa's fiance Nelson
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Cessler fiance. Yes, by this point they were discussing marriage
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: and they had gotten engaged. Okay now, His clothing, toilet trees,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and personal belongings were found throughout the apartment and indicating
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: he stayed there quite regularly, and friends and coworkers confirmed
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: that the couple had been very serious and as I mentioned,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: discussing marriage. When police located Nelson, he cooperated with questioning
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: fully and denied any involvement. He told investigators that he'd
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: been at work throughout the day and had not visited
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Anne Lise's apartment. He also stated that to his knowledge,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: she had not been having conflicts with any anyone and
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: that he couldn't think of anyone who'd want to harm her. However,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: officers noted that he seemed a little guarded and that
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: he didn't volunteer much information about her personal life or
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: their relationship. But to verify his account, detectives reviewed Purdue
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Pharma's security system. The company's electronic records show that he
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: had entered the building that morning and had not left
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: during the period when the murder had occurred. Surveillance cameras
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: and access logs also reported this claim. Coworkers even confirmed
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: seeing him at work, so although investigators continued to scrutinize
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: his behavior, his alibi proved pretty much as solid as
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: it gets. So with Nelson ruled out as the killer,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: police expanded their search the canvas neighborhoods and interviewed coworkers
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: and reviewed phone records the anonymous nine one one call.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: It was traced from a payphone located near a restaurant
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: approximately half a mile from the condo complex, and officers
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: attempted to identify anyone who had used that phone around
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the time of the call. Now. Unfortunately, the area lacked
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: useful surveillance footage and no witnesses could recall seeing anyone.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Forensic teams also processed the apartment extensively. They dusted fingerprints,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: collected fibers, and examined bloodstains, but despite the massive amount
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: of biological material at the scene, none of the usable
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: prints matched anyone in the criminal database. No foreign DNA
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: was immediately identified either, and the absence of clear forensic
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: links left investigators with little to build on. One critical problem, though,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: was that the detectives did not yet know about Sheila's
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: relationship with Nelson. During early interviews, Nelson still didn't disclose
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that he'd been involved with another woman at work. Whether
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: out of embarrassment, fear of suspicion, or concern for his
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: own reputation, he withheld this information, and as a result,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: police were unaware that Analysa had been in a part
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: of a complicated romantic love triangle, and that someone else
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: might have had a strong emotional motive to commit her murder.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: So without a clear suspect to confession or decisive forensic evidence,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: the case began to stall. Detectives continued to revisit witnesses,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: re examine physical evidence, but still no new leads emerged.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: In the weeks following the murder, Nelson struggled to process
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: what had happened. He lost his partner suddenly and very violently,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: and the investigation had offered no new clear answers. Friends
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: and coworkers later described him as becoming withdrawn and emotionally exhausted.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: He continued to work at Purdue Pharma, but his routine
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: had changed. He was quieter, less engaged, and visibly shaken
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: by the loss. During this period, Sheila began positioning herself
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: as a very steady presence in his life. Once again,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: she reached out to him under the guise of concern
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: and sympathy, offering emotional support and understanding. Sheila even presented
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: herself as someone who had also been affected by Anealisa's death.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: She spoke about how shocking and unfair it was, how
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: dangerous the world could be, and how fragile life felt
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: after something like that happens. These conversations, though, were very
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: much so engineered by her to reinforce a sense of
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: shared trauma and closeness between them, effectively to rebuild what
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: they had once had, and over time, Nelson began to
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: rely on her more heavily for comfort, and just as
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: she had planned, as their communication increased, their relationship slowly
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: shifted back into a romantic one. What had previously been
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: an affair resumed, and now under a very different circumstance. Now, remember,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Nelson believed Sheila was single and emotionally available. He had
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: no reason to suspect that she was married, and she
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: made sure that nothing in her life contradicted that impression
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: so to him. Before he was the only one with
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: someone else, but now they were just too single, vulnerable people. Meanwhile,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Paul remained largely unaware of what was happening. Too. Sheila
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: continued using the same system she'd rely on for years.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Saying that her brother was coming to visit, Paul packed
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: up his belongings and left the condo, giving it to
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: her and Nelson. During these periods, Sheila was free to
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: spend time with Nelson without any sort of interference. Paul
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: still believed these visits were about protecting your brother's mental health,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: and he didn't question them at all, even as they
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: became more frequent. By early two thousand and three, the
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: case of who Murdered and Lisa hadn't made any progress,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and Sheila had achieved exactly what she'd been working forward
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: for years on. She was back in Nelson's life, both
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: emotionally and romantically, and she still carried on with the
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: shrade of being a devoted wife and supportive friend, but
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: the reality was she was juggling two separate lives, carefully
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: managing what each man saw and knew. But maintaining both
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: relationships required constant control, and as Paul began to question
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: his place in his own home and marriage. That control
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: was starting to slip, and eventually it would end in tragedy,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: and that's where we're gonna end. Run.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: There's always a point where I just start getting anxious
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, when or is this gonna stop? I
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: need to know more information. But this is one of
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: the most effed up stories ever.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you say that like every other episode.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I know, at this point, I feel like I
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be so fucking shocked by shit anymore, but I
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: just am.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: People are fucked and they do fucked up things, and
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: it's shocking. I, for some.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Reason, was sitting here not even expecting her to try
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: to get back with Nelson. No, Like, what the hell
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: is wrong with me?
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: You were expecting her to not get back, So I
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't think that, Like I didn't.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: That's why she killed Ana Lisa to remove her from
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: the path of getting to Nelson.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: I guess. I, Well, I I have trouble understanding why
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: she would even want to go back with him, Like
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: he chose someone else because obviously he liked her better,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: but she I don't know.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but if she removes her, then there's no one
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: to like better than her than Sheila. Then she's center
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: of it all again.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Fucking Sheila.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Wow, fucking Sheila.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Fucking Sheila.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: That should be merch. Fucking Sheila. This is if your
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: name is Sheila, we're not talking about you. You're cool.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: But this bitch yea different.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: This is unbelievable. I mean, if this was a Sopra opera,
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: though Annalise would one day be reborn.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: At the funeral, she would attend her own funeral. She'd
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: rip off a black veil.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: And reveal who she actually wasn't dead.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, is.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: That going to happen.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you what's going to happen, but I
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: can tell you there's some more brutal things to come,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: and Part two is definitely going to be worth the weight.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, I feel like this could end here in
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: a sense because okay, like what's next, but apparently there
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: is a lot still going on.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: It gets worse, That's what I'll say. I'm only going
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: to say that it gets worse. Thank you for being
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: here for part one. We'll see you in part two
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: in a few days, and until
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Then, stay wicked.