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Kunst Speak With Brask - Hubert Neumann · Kunst Speak With Brask

0:00
Speaker 1: Dear friends, welcome to speak I mean New York. The
0:06
Speaker 1: first guest in New York Hubert Newman, great collector, probably
0:12
Speaker 1: one of the best collections in the world. I'm looking
0:16
Speaker 1: forward to see Hubert again. I'm looking forward to the talk.
0:19
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to speak with Resk.
0:25
Speaker 1: We have been talking about a lot collecting. Yes, and
0:29
Speaker 1: all the artists that are in your collection, have you
0:31
Speaker 1: been buying when they were young and supporting from when
0:34
Speaker 1: the artists were Yeah.
0:36
Speaker 2: Actually, even the modernist dimension of the collection was bought
0:42
Speaker 2: when the artists were mostly when the artist was alive,
0:46
Speaker 2: because I started this thing in nineteen forty seven with
0:50
Speaker 2: my father and we would go to Lega and visit
0:56
Speaker 2: him and he talked about what that his art was
1:00
Speaker 2: and how it was, and it was contemporary. So basically,
1:09
Speaker 2: when Matisse was alive, Moundrian was alive, Mirou was alive,
1:15
Speaker 2: all of that was kind of like what's happening today.
1:20
Speaker 2: The difference was that all of that started that modernist
1:28
Speaker 2: classical modernism suffered greatly by the Great Depression and then
1:35
Speaker 2: by World War Two, so there was this hiatus of
1:40
Speaker 2: more than a decade where the art collecting kind of languished.
1:47
Speaker 2: But when Picasso in the forties did stuff, it was
1:52
Speaker 2: very difficult for people. They would go like this with
1:56
Speaker 2: the glasses and stuff and mocked him because he was
1:59
Speaker 2: a kind communists. Same thing today about how Trump mocks
2:03
Speaker 2: somebody that the new mayor of New York because he's
2:08
Speaker 2: a communist. Well, he's not a communist. It's like ludicrous.
2:13
Speaker 2: So anyway, even that dimension was not exactly the same
2:20
Speaker 2: but had great similarities with what we're doing today.
2:23
Speaker 3: Makes sense.
2:24
Speaker 1: But what I think we should go back and talk
2:27
Speaker 1: about when you in the early eighties sport some of
2:31
Speaker 1: my bigle idols Keith, Heroin and Pasciot in New York.
2:35
Speaker 2: Oh, of course. Well, in about nineteen eighty two, Bosquiocht
2:42
Speaker 2: was interesting to a lot of people that I respected.
2:49
Speaker 2: And the major thing our entry into Bosquiocht was when
2:57
Speaker 2: my father and I visited an Nosey exhibition in nineteen
3:03
Speaker 2: eighty two. In the spring we committed to buying the
3:11
Speaker 2: major Boscuiat that now hangs in Melissa's house. And then
3:16
Speaker 2: I was down in the basement and I saw him
3:20
Speaker 2: making this piece called Tyranny, and I would say it
3:25
Speaker 2: was somewhere in a neighborhood of about ninety percent complete,
3:30
Speaker 2: and I told Anina, I loved the piece. I want
3:33
Speaker 2: to see it again when he's finished it. It was
3:38
Speaker 2: not part of the initial show, and I loved it.
3:42
Speaker 2: It was forty five hundred bucks, and my father gifted
3:49
Speaker 2: me the money and I bought the piece personally, and
3:57
Speaker 2: it's in the bedroom downstairs.
4:00
Speaker 3: Now.
4:00
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about and I would bring bosquiot food
4:05
Speaker 2: on Cosby Street where he lived. You'd walk all the
4:10
Speaker 2: way up there and we would talk about the art
4:13
Speaker 2: world and the problems that young artists have with the
4:18
Speaker 2: art world. And so I knew Bosquiocht personally for those
4:27
Speaker 2: two works. The weirdest thing about Tyranny is that it's
4:34
Speaker 2: not the first time he used a crown, but it
4:38
Speaker 2: has a crown in gold, and it has two figures.
4:46
Speaker 2: One is a figure like a war person, and the
4:51
Speaker 2: other is a common man who wears the crown and
4:55
Speaker 2: the gold, and that gold appears in the eyes of
5:01
Speaker 2: that figure. So what Boscout is basically saying is the
5:08
Speaker 2: common man is king. Now the political situation in the
5:13
Speaker 2: United States says we don't want kings, and they flipped
5:19
Speaker 2: the symbol of the crown to not wanting it on
5:25
Speaker 2: their political president of the United States. So Boscott never
5:31
Speaker 2: intended the crown to be used that way. I don't
5:34
Speaker 2: think he'd be unhappy with that it had a dual usage.
5:38
Speaker 2: But when you look at that painting and think about
5:42
Speaker 2: how that crown has become generic, it's quite remarkable. And
5:47
Speaker 2: I always love the crown, of course, and I would
5:52
Speaker 2: go with Boscot. There was a club on fourteenth Street.
5:57
Speaker 2: He was the DJ, and Rammelz and Fab five Freddy
6:03
Speaker 2: and those guys that were writers were doing music and
6:10
Speaker 2: here I am, and here's boskiat scratching at the being
6:16
Speaker 2: a DJ and the music and stuff. So over course
6:20
Speaker 2: of about a year there was all of this kind
6:24
Speaker 2: of connection between the writers in eighty two and Bosquiot,
6:31
Speaker 2: one of the writers, Toxic, would help Bosciocht make the
6:38
Speaker 2: paintings that were going to be shown by Bosquiot's current
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Speaker 2: girlfriend who was on eighty first Street, and Boski and
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Speaker 2: Toxic came to me and said, h you should see
6:56
Speaker 2: the blue in this painting of Gen's. It's really whack.
7:01
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I got to see it, So
7:04
Speaker 2: I ran down to see the three paintings that he made.
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Speaker 2: One was Notary, another one I'd forget the name, and
7:13
Speaker 2: one was the one in the back room, Mitchell Crewe.
7:17
Speaker 2: And I told my father at the time we should
7:20
Speaker 2: buy Notary and Mitchell Crew and Bosco wouldn't sell us both.
7:26
Speaker 2: He would only sell us one of the three. So
7:30
Speaker 2: at that time I picked Mitchell Crue over the other two,
7:35
Speaker 2: and Notary ended up with the Shores and is a
7:39
Speaker 2: promised gift to the Princeton University, which is fantastic.
7:44
Speaker 3: It's great.
7:46
Speaker 2: And then he moved from the girlfriend who was involved
7:52
Speaker 2: with There was a whole stuff with Japanese publication. It's
7:59
Speaker 2: first time I may ever ate sushi and stuff like that,
8:02
Speaker 2: where this sumi guy in loinclothes three hundred and something
8:07
Speaker 2: pounds push that in front of my face. The raw fish.
8:10
Speaker 2: I had never eaten it before in my life, and
8:12
Speaker 2: I was scared to death. He'd go like this and
8:14
Speaker 2: I'd be splat against the wall. So I liked the
8:18
Speaker 2: raw fish once I did it. But you know, so
8:21
Speaker 2: we had a whole bunch of stuff that related to
8:25
Speaker 2: that period before he went to marry Boone. After he
8:28
Speaker 2: went to marry Boone, the prices rose. I don't know,
8:32
Speaker 2: fivefold or something. And so we had the basquaiats and
8:38
Speaker 2: one that my wife bought because I let her buy it, Called,
8:43
Speaker 2: which she eventually sold and it becomes a became a
8:47
Speaker 2: problem for our family. But from my point of view,
8:54
Speaker 2: we were also collecting the graffiti guys, and to this
8:58
Speaker 2: day I feel that the best ones and the Mitchell
9:04
Speaker 2: crew were amongst the best ones that were under the
9:08
Speaker 2: finger of MLZ. That they created a new kind of
9:14
Speaker 2: impressionism and for some weird reason, the music became generic,
9:23
Speaker 2: the rap became generic, but the breakdancing got into the
9:27
Speaker 2: Olympics and all so but never took on that dimension.
9:32
Speaker 2: And the trains that was photographed, but they were gone
9:41
Speaker 2: and what was left were the paintings. So we have
9:45
Speaker 2: a big collection of those works. Crash Days, Lady Pink
9:52
Speaker 2: A One, CORMLZ, Toxic and so on and so forth.
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Speaker 2: And to this day, which I cannot understand that that
10:03
Speaker 2: is more respected in Holland and in Europe than it
10:08
Speaker 2: is in the United States, which I think is a travesty.
10:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love all the guys that you just mentioned,
10:15
Speaker 1: kras Lee Days, Remols. See all these guys and what
10:18
Speaker 1: they have done for the culture and the history. And
10:22
Speaker 1: that's yet they haven't got all the respect that they
10:24
Speaker 1: should have.
10:26
Speaker 2: They changed the vocabulary of painting, still being modernists in
10:32
Speaker 2: a way where there they deserve much more of art history.
10:40
Speaker 2: I recently took a train from Charles de gaul to
10:43
Speaker 2: Leon all along the trailer route is graffiti in France. Meanwhile,
10:51
Speaker 2: the arrogance of the art world not to fully accept
10:57
Speaker 2: this thing that was done forty years go for God's sake,
11:02
Speaker 2: is got to do with global capitalism. That's the only
11:07
Speaker 2: way you can explain it. It's taking a chunk of
11:11
Speaker 2: important chunk of the art vocabulary and the history of
11:16
Speaker 2: it and only elevating the rap And it's totally wrong.
11:20
Speaker 2: And you have these places like Bard. Where is graffiti
11:25
Speaker 2: in Bard? Where is graffiti in Princeton University? Where is
11:29
Speaker 2: graffiti in the University of Pennsylvania. It's a raised because
11:36
Speaker 2: it was really an issue of a radical rejection of
11:44
Speaker 2: global capitalism. Now, what do you do about global capitalism?
11:49
Speaker 2: That's an interesting thing in my mind. What do you
11:53
Speaker 2: do about global capitalism? It's a real problem here. Now,
11:57
Speaker 2: what do you do about global capitalism without destroying one
12:02
Speaker 2: hundred percent capitalism because there is a dimension to capitalism
12:07
Speaker 2: which makes some sense. I try to do it with
12:11
Speaker 2: what I do with this collection. But what happens is
12:16
Speaker 2: I buy something that I love. When she's a student,
12:19
Speaker 2: Nina Abney and a b picture sells for a million dollars.
12:26
Speaker 2: That's about this size. So it's become with the help
12:31
Speaker 2: of somebody like Paraitan, pushed into this global capitalism situation
12:38
Speaker 2: for what because she's black and a lesbian. That's bullshit.
12:42
Speaker 2: It's what objects she makes. So then in a few
12:47
Speaker 2: years they'll drop that whole issue black and go to
12:50
Speaker 2: some other issue if they can market it. Now, that
12:54
Speaker 2: is something that I one hundred percent am against and
13:01
Speaker 2: I have the power of after modernism to stop it
13:06
Speaker 2: because I don't loan, and I've told the French government
13:11
Speaker 2: I am not interested in having people that sell luxury
13:16
Speaker 2: goods dominate the cultural fabric of France. And if you
13:24
Speaker 2: want me to do something about it, just ask. I've
13:28
Speaker 2: been very clear about it. Okay, But they're jerking around
13:32
Speaker 2: because they close the Pampadou. They got to have enough
13:35
Speaker 2: money to de you know. But eventually, what are they
13:39
Speaker 2: going to be faced with that They're going to let
13:41
Speaker 2: Pinaut and Arnaut run. The show not going to happen
13:45
Speaker 2: because I won't loan to those guys, and I'll make
13:48
Speaker 2: a better show than what they're doing. And in my opinion,
13:53
Speaker 2: they got the wrong gang running that I know all
13:57
Speaker 2: about Pellet to Tokyo about this stuff, okay, And I
14:02
Speaker 2: am not going to have this collection go down that road,
14:07
Speaker 2: nor are the people that are going to follow me,
14:11
Speaker 2: my daughter and her daughter. So that's where we are.
14:16
Speaker 1: I hear you you, But counts Us, we saw two
14:21
Speaker 1: artists have made two dogs, Stiff Koons and Jakomtchi.
14:25
Speaker 2: If something is an important object, it's an important object
14:30
Speaker 2: where whenever it's done, and it deserves to have a
14:36
Speaker 2: dialogue with other important objects. So we have in this
14:43
Speaker 2: room a great boss Gacht over here and a great
14:47
Speaker 2: Wesselman that even Larry Gagoshian and his magnificent book on
14:53
Speaker 2: Wesselman says, that's the greatest Wesselman that ever was. And
14:58
Speaker 2: do you think I loaned it to what is a
15:00
Speaker 2: lousy looking building in the in the blot of Bologne
15:06
Speaker 2: when I used to bring my kids there to the
15:08
Speaker 2: jardeend accommodats on, you know, And then he puts that
15:13
Speaker 2: crap ass building in there. No way, so he doesn't,
15:19
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't go down that road, and I
15:22
Speaker 2: will do something in Paris that will show where we
15:26
Speaker 2: stand or will this collection look You can't ignore it forever.
15:33
Speaker 2: And one of the one of the reasons I just
15:38
Speaker 2: covered was the development of AI. The other reason that
15:44
Speaker 2: I developed it is that we have the My thinking
15:49
Speaker 2: has a complete understand I understand a Lambadou, and I
15:54
Speaker 2: would say that everybody should read in praise of philosophy,
15:57
Speaker 2: this small book of A Lambbadou, and you will understand
16:01
Speaker 2: how Baddo understands that philosophy, that truths evolve with the
16:10
Speaker 2: help of philosophy, and that truths are about One of
16:17
Speaker 2: the things that establishes truth is the arts.
16:21
Speaker 3: And so in a.
16:22
Speaker 2: Sense, what we've done for these forty years is absolutely
16:29
Speaker 2: what Lanbaddoo is talking about. And believe Land Baddoo is
16:35
Speaker 2: also much against the global capitalists.
16:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think all collector as an artist against
16:42
Speaker 1: the global capitalism. Hopefully, a true collector wants the artists
16:47
Speaker 1: to grow, you know, in a organic way, and want
16:50
Speaker 1: them to do the best show and do what they
16:52
Speaker 1: do instead of it's only about money, right, Yeah, and
16:55
Speaker 1: that's what you have been supporting all the years with buying.
16:59
Speaker 3: If it's something we oldies, I want to do.
17:05
Speaker 2: The reason I was in Leone was that I want
17:10
Speaker 2: to have a dialogue with the museums and I want
17:13
Speaker 2: to add a dialogue with the university. They have a
17:16
Speaker 2: University of Leon number three that has forty five thousand students,
17:22
Speaker 2: and if they don't want to do it, I'll go
17:24
Speaker 2: South Common has a University of the Cote Dozer that
17:28
Speaker 2: has the same amount of students in eight different campuses.
17:32
Speaker 2: So I will find a way to get the university
17:37
Speaker 2: dimension of our dialogue into Europe. And if I have
17:41
Speaker 2: to do it in another country like Holland or I
17:44
Speaker 2: have no problem with that. I want young people. I
17:47
Speaker 2: don't give a hoot about the older people and what
17:51
Speaker 2: they think. Okay, but the younger people are living with infinity,
17:58
Speaker 2: which is the iPhone all their lives. It's an essential
18:03
Speaker 2: part of their life. And Bade talks about in his
18:08
Speaker 2: discussion about mathematics that infinity comes in a whole variety
18:14
Speaker 2: of shapes and sizes. Okay, it's not just one infinity
18:20
Speaker 2: because when you get into set theory of cone and
18:23
Speaker 2: so on. That's how the new mathematics is the direction
18:28
Speaker 2: it's going. So the art world can't fight this because
18:34
Speaker 2: this is how mathematics is. And they don't want to
18:39
Speaker 2: even know that Badoeu exists. If you would go to
18:43
Speaker 2: all these curators and all these guys that run these
18:48
Speaker 2: you know, big galleries, and you talk about Badu, get
18:52
Speaker 2: a blank's there. They don't know anything about it. But
18:55
Speaker 2: this guy is much more important than they think they are.
19:02
Speaker 2: He is going to be around because he is part
19:05
Speaker 2: of an extension of Plato.
19:08
Speaker 1: But the other day Kiff Coons opened a new show. Yes,
19:13
Speaker 1: and you also said earlier that you saw it was
19:16
Speaker 1: his show.
19:17
Speaker 2: Ever, I think I mean, I would say recently, because
19:23
Speaker 2: I think when Jeff first started and we bought the
19:30
Speaker 2: ceramic porcelain piece and we bought the dogs, we have
19:36
Speaker 2: I think five early Coons and we have an early
19:41
Speaker 2: stainless steel piece that After that, a lot of his
19:46
Speaker 2: shows were so so. For example, I didn't think do
19:53
Speaker 2: extending data with vacuum cleaners was an interesting enough thing
19:58
Speaker 2: to do, or putting basketballs in a tank and having
20:06
Speaker 2: them reverberate. I came into Coons after that. Later this show,
20:14
Speaker 2: he goes back to the porcelain pieces because he calls
20:17
Speaker 2: them porcelain objects, and he uses a new technology with
20:23
Speaker 2: stainless steel to create more of this rejection of closure,
20:32
Speaker 2: an infinite amount of levels in the Best Pieces. That
20:37
Speaker 2: is an extension of what I always thought Coons was
20:41
Speaker 2: about until this show. I thought, you know, based upon
20:45
Speaker 2: his whole career. And I love Jeff. He's here and
20:48
Speaker 2: he's making drawings and all of that, and I have
20:53
Speaker 2: a great deal of respect for him as a person.
20:56
Speaker 2: He's pretty, he's clever, but he's also a sort and
21:02
Speaker 2: I think that he and Ashley Bickerton did something in
21:06
Speaker 2: that generation, and that Ashley in some ways is superior
21:12
Speaker 2: to Jeff. He has more breadth and he can really draw.
21:16
Speaker 2: That's an important issue. So our collection really drifted away
21:23
Speaker 2: from Jeff into the direction of Ashley, and you'll see
21:29
Speaker 2: a lot of Ashley around the house and more at
21:33
Speaker 2: Melissa's house. So I think that was more interesting and
21:39
Speaker 2: that Ashley during that period, basically most of his life
21:45
Speaker 2: was basically more creative, and young artists feel that way too,
21:51
Speaker 2: So I was really delighted yesterday or Saturday to see
21:57
Speaker 2: that Jeff really stepped it up in this body of
22:01
Speaker 2: work and in these stainless steel things he respected. He
22:08
Speaker 2: was able to change color and also involve small little
22:15
Speaker 2: things that would break up the surface in terms of closure.
22:20
Speaker 2: So he did some stuff that's you know. And also
22:23
Speaker 2: the paintings are pretty cool. But he's a much greater
22:26
Speaker 2: sculptor than painter.
22:28
Speaker 3: But it's only sculptures in the show now.
22:31
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, there's seven of them, and there's seven paintings.
22:37
Speaker 2: The paintings I think are unique, and the sculpture is
22:42
Speaker 2: three plus an ap Okay, it's the same thing that
22:46
Speaker 2: he always used. So basically you have in New York
22:51
Speaker 2: because New York is really where. It's the greatest city
22:55
Speaker 2: in the world, there is no doubt about it. That's
22:58
Speaker 2: why I'm in New York. It's where things happen. We
23:04
Speaker 2: put in a Muslim mayor. Do you know how many
23:08
Speaker 2: Middle East countries are going to love us for that?
23:12
Speaker 2: We put a Muslim guy in his mayor of New
23:14
Speaker 2: York And he's about thirty something years old. He's got
23:17
Speaker 2: a twenty eight year old wife. It's the greatest thing.
23:21
Speaker 2: Americans don't even understand. How from a point of view,
23:25
Speaker 2: of just the Middle East. That's going to make a
23:28
Speaker 2: lot of friends amongst the people. It's going to be enormous.
23:32
Speaker 2: That's what we're going to see because New York has
23:36
Speaker 2: a DNA mixture that no place in the world has,
23:40
Speaker 2: and that's that's what comes out of this city. So yeah,
23:44
Speaker 2: so that's what I want to do, I guess in
23:49
Speaker 2: the future. I'm very optimistic.
23:51
Speaker 1: I'm glad because it looks it looks good with the
23:54
Speaker 1: new mayorale and everything. It's it seems like, like I
23:57
Speaker 1: said in the audience, the best city in the world.
24:00
Speaker 3: So much go on and we're not stopping.
24:03
Speaker 1: I'm glad because we need to, of course see the
24:06
Speaker 1: collection crew and see what will happen.
24:08
Speaker 3: Like you say, down the road with the collection.
24:10
Speaker 2: Right, urban society globally is becoming vertical, and what's happening
24:18
Speaker 2: in New York is areas that were commercial are now residential,
24:25
Speaker 2: and these things are going up one hundred stories and stuff.
24:29
Speaker 2: Everybody wants to be here.
24:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, everybody.
24:33
Speaker 2: Wants That's that's what the city. And when you have
24:37
Speaker 2: a city like that, it's like what Florence was in
24:41
Speaker 2: the Renaissance, or Venus was what in it's where the
24:45
Speaker 2: culture is. The culture comes here.
24:48
Speaker 3: Yeah.
24:48
Speaker 1: And also if you look how many artists came from
24:52
Speaker 1: New York to coom Pesciat keep heron whatever we can name.
24:56
Speaker 3: I don't know him or.
24:57
Speaker 2: If or or there a woman like this that's Spanish,
25:02
Speaker 2: but she comes here to live and who she McGill, mcgu.
25:06
Speaker 3: L or Christina de Miguel.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she comes here. So we have a whole
25:12
Speaker 2: bunch of her paintings and we get along, and she
25:15
Speaker 2: loves that this is here, and this is here, and
25:18
Speaker 2: you can't get that. The artists can't get that by
25:23
Speaker 2: showing with some of these dealers. And we can't get
25:28
Speaker 2: this relationship where in this room is a great Boskot
25:32
Speaker 2: and Wesselman and here she is here and upstairs she says,
25:37
Speaker 2: we get We give those artists what they want. Okay,
25:43
Speaker 2: I'll give a little dissertation about say, Keith and Warhol
25:48
Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
25:49
Speaker 3: Interesting, let's talk about these guys, okay, Okay.
25:52
Speaker 2: Here here, here's what has happened after modernism. The artists
25:57
Speaker 2: don't deal with a deep space. It's a shallow space.
26:02
Speaker 2: And it's very different than say, I think in one
26:07
Speaker 2: of these rooms that room, you have a Campbell soup can.
26:13
Speaker 2: So Warhol used a shallow space too, but what was
26:17
Speaker 2: imminent was the soup can, which had total closure. What's
26:23
Speaker 2: imminent in an am artist, which comes out from the
26:28
Speaker 2: shallow space is something that has no closure visual. Now,
26:33
Speaker 2: what's really amazing about all of this is that one
26:38
Speaker 2: of the biggest industries in the world has no problem
26:42
Speaker 2: with doing AM stuff. It's huge industry, all the advertising
26:48
Speaker 2: that's on the Internet, these guys have people leaping out
26:51
Speaker 2: of rooms, going back and forth. And what's also happened
26:56
Speaker 2: is that if you have some of the ways that
27:02
Speaker 2: they're presenting their shows, their news shows and so on,
27:07
Speaker 2: they're developing more and more an AM approach to the
27:12
Speaker 2: way those shows are presented. So we have here a
27:17
Speaker 2: very interesting phenomenon that capitalism has no problem with they
27:22
Speaker 2: am when it comes to the real, bigger world where
27:26
Speaker 2: the problem is in most of the people that think
27:31
Speaker 2: they know about art history having the wrong ideas. Okay,
27:37
Speaker 2: so it's a real big problem for young people. Young
27:45
Speaker 2: people have two methods of masturbation. Outside of sexual masturbation,
27:51
Speaker 2: it's the iPhone and the things that go in their
27:54
Speaker 2: fucking ears. They're tied in to what I'm talking about, okay,
28:01
Speaker 2: and that's the audience that I want to reach. That's
28:04
Speaker 2: the audience that this art is an extension of their lives,
28:10
Speaker 2: not of these old guys that are spending one hundred
28:14
Speaker 2: million dollars on a fucking bascia. That's not where the
28:17
Speaker 2: real world is. So that's why I want to do
28:21
Speaker 2: stuff with that dimension. Now, how do you really fix it?
28:27
Speaker 2: You do it by what I do. But also I've
28:30
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion that in our country that the
28:38
Speaker 2: museums have to be helped in some way because what
28:43
Speaker 2: you had is the mint created a vacuum which MoMA filled.
28:50
Speaker 2: Now MoMA is creating a vacuum where somebody else is
28:54
Speaker 2: going to fill it. Well, I feel it, and I'm
28:57
Speaker 2: not a museum. So I was telling Debbie. I woke
29:02
Speaker 2: up this morning and I said, you know, there's something
29:06
Speaker 2: that capitalism uses that's very effective. They set something up
29:12
Speaker 2: a vehicle, and then they begin to acquire all kinds
29:17
Speaker 2: of other dimensions which go beyond, say, for example, selling books.
29:25
Speaker 2: So what they do is they have this thing here
29:32
Speaker 2: and they can call it whatever they want that acquires
29:36
Speaker 2: acquisitions keeps the people in each acquisition around, but then
29:44
Speaker 2: supervises it and make sure it doesn't really mess up bad.
29:49
Speaker 2: So I think that the American museums should have that
29:55
Speaker 2: kind of structure, because you're not going to get a
29:59
Speaker 2: genius that's going to be in the Whitney and another
30:02
Speaker 2: genius in the moment, another genius that meant another genius.
30:06
Speaker 2: At Kugunheim. There's not that many geniuses around, so you
30:10
Speaker 2: have to have some structure that allows the museums to
30:16
Speaker 2: flourish as acquisitions. But this structure is run by a
30:21
Speaker 2: fucking genius, And that's how you get the museums in line,
30:25
Speaker 2: because basically you do two things with that. You reduce
30:29
Speaker 2: the power of the trustee and you allow for you
30:37
Speaker 2: elevate the management of the museums to something that makes
30:42
Speaker 2: sense where they're not competing for works of art they
30:47
Speaker 2: probably won't ever get. And then they can begin acquisitions
30:51
Speaker 2: that make sense. And if you choose this right, you'll
30:56
Speaker 2: get these museums to be much more functional. So that's
30:59
Speaker 2: my solution to the museums. But I can't do it.
31:03
Speaker 2: I don't know shit about that. I'm not a CEO
31:07
Speaker 2: of a bunch of independent things. But there are people
31:10
Speaker 2: that are very capable of that.
31:12
Speaker 3: I agree.
31:15
Speaker 1: You told me a funny story about Klais Oldenburg and
31:18
Speaker 1: the cheesecake.
31:19
Speaker 2: Well, okay, that's part of a bigger picture where artists
31:23
Speaker 2: love me so much that they give me things for
31:29
Speaker 2: my birthday that are very honest evaluations, very sincere, with
31:36
Speaker 2: lots of love. So that's an example of that situation.
31:43
Speaker 2: So I was with my father because he loved this
31:50
Speaker 2: stage delicatessen, and we ate there and we said, we're
31:54
Speaker 2: going down to Klaus's place, which is where old would
32:00
Speaker 2: make these scary things what were they called. He'd make
32:06
Speaker 2: these happenings and stuff, and he would invite all the
32:11
Speaker 2: contemporary people, Gelsaur and people like that to the happening
32:16
Speaker 2: and then he had the store. Okay, so we were
32:20
Speaker 2: going down there and we met a I'm going to
32:24
Speaker 2: give you another dimension to We met Muriel Newman, who
32:28
Speaker 2: was a great collector in Chicago, and told her we're
32:32
Speaker 2: going down to visit him, and we took the cheesecake,
32:36
Speaker 2: which was the last one in the pan from the
32:39
Speaker 2: stage and gave it to him as a gift. And
32:42
Speaker 2: he would make those cheesecakes and stuff. Looking at on
32:47
Speaker 2: Delancey Street. There was a place called Ratners, and you'ld
32:51
Speaker 2: see all these overblown desserts and he loved looking at
32:56
Speaker 2: them and so on. So he loved the idea. We
32:59
Speaker 2: knew he loved the idea. And then about two weeks
33:02
Speaker 2: later he calls up me because I lived in Chicago
33:06
Speaker 2: and my father lived I New York. Father lived in Chicago,
33:11
Speaker 2: and he called me up and he said, Hubert, I
33:13
Speaker 2: have something for you. Please come and get it. And
33:17
Speaker 2: I did, and it was that cheesecake that he made
33:19
Speaker 2: into a sculpture. We have a lot of that stuff
33:24
Speaker 2: over the years. Wendell Gladstone gives me a whole bunch
33:27
Speaker 2: of things every year for my birthday and stuff like that.
33:32
Speaker 2: So it's part of a bigger tradition of a relationship
33:36
Speaker 2: with the artists that has a huge dimension of love
33:41
Speaker 2: and that's rare. So that's how that came to be
33:46
Speaker 2: in this collection.
33:48
Speaker 1: He but thank you so much for your time, pleasure
33:51
Speaker 1: to see the collection again, pleasure and talk to and
33:53
Speaker 1: we definitely have a plan for the future.
33:56
Speaker 4: I think that we in the last couple of weeks
34:00
Speaker 4: we added at least eight paintings to the collection, so
34:05
Speaker 4: we're still very active in collecting.
34:08
Speaker 1: You're still around. Well that's the point exactly. Thanks so
34:13
Speaker 1: much for your time again pleasure. I'm looking forward to
34:16
Speaker 1: see you soon again. Wow, I'm still blowing away of
34:20
Speaker 1: Hubert's collection. I've been there many times before, but go
34:24
Speaker 1: there every time is so amazing. I hope you enjoyed
34:28
Speaker 1: the podcast as much as I did. Thank you again
34:32
Speaker 1: for listening to and speak with Rask