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Strait Up War Crimes · Pod Save America

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• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: I'm Tommy Vitor. Welcome back, Tommy. Great to be here.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I missed you guys. You didn't miss much. Man, a
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: lot of weird stuff happened. Were you able to unplug
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit from the news?
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I unplugged, but not from my 3,000cc boobs. that I
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: travel with everywhere.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Really tough that you missed that. I was thinking about you.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Isn't that a weird thing? I was like, Tommy would
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: be talking about this story. Such a crazy story.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Beautiful bazingas.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Bimbofication.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: And you said that you had just suddenly appeared in
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that Waffle House. And you've been slowly making your way back?
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: I was in the Waffle House with the 3,000cc breasts
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: and I was like, how did I get here?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I'm on vacation. Record scratch. All right, it's all right.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I noticed Tim Miller wore some himself on the Bulwark stream.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Tim's doing prop comedy. Love it. You're letting Tim do that?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Only the fag has to wear the boobs on the show.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Where are your tits? I'm in.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Can we fly in a pair of magnificent bazooms for John?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I was thinking more of the person who likes to
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: be at the center of all the comedy. Oh, yeah.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: That's right. You're right. You're right.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I reacted defensively.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Anyway, smash a watermelon on the table next week. Anyway,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: we're moving on. We have a lot of other things
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: to talk about on today's show. We're going to talk
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: about Trump's Easter threat to commit war crimes against Iran
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: if they don't, quote, open the fucking strait. The press
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: conference he held to congratulate himself on the rescue of
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: the downed American pilots, new warning signs about the war's
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: economic damage, and why the White House is asking for
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: a $ 1. 5 trillion defense budget for next year, paid forward
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: by cuts to nearly everything else. We'll also check back
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: in on the mass deportation campaign, which is continuing at
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: full speed, even though it's fallen out of the headlines.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Then Congresswoman Sarah McBride stops by to talk with Lovett
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: about her first year in Congress and how Democrats are
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: preparing for the big fights coming up. Can't wait to
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: hear what they're doing.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Remember them?
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I do, fortunately. Quick reminder, please consider becoming a Crooked
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  Speaker 2: with us in studio today.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: How you doing? What up? What an appearance. And then also,
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• 4:01
  Speaker 2: let's get to the news. Week six of Operation Epic Fury,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: and there is no end in sight. The energy crisis
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: is getting worse. Iran is shooting down U.S. military jets.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Negotiations are going nowhere. And Trump has become so desperate
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: that he's threatening to commit war crimes against Iranian civilians
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  Speaker 2: and destroy the entire country in one night. Maybe tonight.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: By now, you've probably seen the president's Easter message to
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the Iranian regime. Quote, open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: or you'll be living in hell. Praise be to Allah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: On Easter. On Easter. I believe the holiest of the
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Christian holidays. Yes. Yeah, it is. It is the holiest
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: of the Christian holidays.
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  Speaker 3: I know he thought that was a joke, but do
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  Speaker 3: you think the fundamentalists in either of the other religions did?
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Christians or Muslims? Or anyone.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Or anyone. I thought it was a joke when I saw...
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a fake tweet. Because it was
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Easter morning. I actually didn't open Twitter because my kids
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: were up early with their Easter baskets. Um, not, not
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: for any religious reasons. Don't worry. Um, and my brother
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: sent me a text and he's like, I can't fucking
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: believe Trump's truth. Did you see it? And he sent
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: it to me. I'm like, Andy, did you fall for some,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: some misinformation somewhere? I thought some people got caught too.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I did too. And then I started looking, I was like,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: holy shit. I really, it takes a lot to surprise me. It's,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: it was, it was shocking. It was shocking.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I think it was also the capitalizing of F and
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: fucking straight, which also maybe that's not important, but I
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: thought that was funny. Quite a post for sure. The
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: closest thing.
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  Speaker 3: What it reminded me of when I read it out
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: loud is do you remember the 2002 Mike Tyson press
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: conference when he was promoting his fight against Lennox Lewis?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Of course we do. Where he said, I'll fuck you
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: till you love me.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: All praise to Allah. Wow. I forgot he added all
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: praise to Allah. I don't remember that. Almost verbatim. The
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: fuck you till you love me, really. Yeah. That stood out.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I believe that was to a reporter. Yeah, no, I know.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Lennox Lewis. I don't know. I don't remember that well. Anyway,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: back to the war crimes. They're bad. If Iran doesn't
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: open the fucking straight by 8 p.m. Tuesday, the president
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: says he will order the destruction of all the country's
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: bridges and power plants. He took questions on all of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: this Monday morning at a press conference at the White House.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Let's listen.
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  Speaker 4: The entire country can be taken out in one night,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: and that night might be tomorrow night.
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  Speaker 3: You've said Iranians would be mad if you stopped these attacks,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: but why would they want you to blow up their infrastructure,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: to cut off their power?
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  Speaker 6: Wouldn't that be punishing Iranians.
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  Speaker 3: For the actions of the regime?
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  Speaker 4: They would be willing to suffer that in order to
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: have freedom. We've had numerous intercepts.
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  Speaker 2: Please keep bombing. Bombs that are dropping near their homes.
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  Speaker 2: Please keep bombing. Do it.
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  Speaker 4: And these are people that are living where the bombs
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  Speaker 4: are exploding.
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  Speaker 2: So believable. Who are you with? Who are you with?
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I'm with the New York Times.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Zolan from the New York Times.
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  Speaker 2: Are you concerned... The failing.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: The failing.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Are you concerned.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Circulation way down at the New York Times. What's going on?
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  Speaker 5: Are you concerned that your threat to bomb power plants
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  Speaker 5: and bridges amount.
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  Speaker 2: To war crimes? No, not at all, no.
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  Speaker 4: Your messaging on the war has moved from the war
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  Speaker 4: is coming to an end to we're going to be
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  Speaker 4: bombing Iran to the Stone Ages.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: To which is it? Are you winding this down? I
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: can't tell you. I don't know.
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  Speaker 4: We're giving them till tomorrow, 8 o'clock Eastern Time.
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  Speaker 2: And after that, they're going to have no bridges. They're
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: going to have no power plants.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Stone Ages, yeah. Stone Ages.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Trump also started that press conference off by saying, militarily...
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: It's been one of the best Easters. That's just so funny. Really, really, really.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Interesting adverb that he's turned. Yeah. Militarily, it's been one
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of the. Really getting into that Easter spirit.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: That famous Easter spirit. I also think he thinks that
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Easter is Monday. He said a couple times, happy Easter.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Happy Easter. It's a great Easter today. I'm like, it
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: is Monday, sir.
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  Speaker 3: He kept referring to Easter Monday. I think what he
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: meant was it was the day of the Easter egg roll.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Well, in his mind, it's probably the only Easter that
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  Speaker 2: really counts. Right. I'm celebrating him. All right. Lots to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: unpack here. Let's start with the war crimes, which the
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: administration is already trying to argue would not actually constitute
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: war crimes. A White House official told The Wall Street
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Journal that power plants are, quote, legitimate military targets because
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: destroying them could foment civil unrest, complicating Tehran's path to
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: a nuclear device. Seems like a bit of a stretch
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: to me. What do you think, Tommy? Yeah, I agree
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: I ran that quote by Ona Hathaway, who's a professor
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: of international law at Yale Law School.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: No big deal. She's been on Pod Save the World.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: They gave J.D. Vance a degree. Yeah, and I think
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: all the classes are pass-fail.
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: But yeah, go on.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Anyway, sorry. I'm sure she's wonderful. She's like the smartest
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: person I've ever met.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: She said it would be a war crime to carry
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: out those threats. Destroying civilian infrastructure to foment civil unrest
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: is clearly unlawful. But on Monday, as you mentioned, I mean,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: it gets worse. He threatened to bomb all of the
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: bridges and all of the power plants in Iran by
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: midnight on Tuesday. And explicitly threatening to bomb all of
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: the power plants serving a country of 90 million people.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: That's about as clear cut of a war crime as
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: I could.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Think of.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, in case anyone still cares, the Geneva Conventions
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: want an international humanitarian law. They want you to distinguish
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: between military and civilian infrastructure. So like, don't hit a
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: power grid, don't hit water systems. And attacks are also
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: supposed to be proportional. So you could say, okay, take
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: out that power plant that fuels that base over there,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: but taking out all of them, it's just collective punishment.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Same with the bridges.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you bomb the Eiffel Tower, it would screw
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: up production. of the next season of Emily in Paris.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: And even if that's a worthy goal, we would all
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: say that it was an inappropriate use of force.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole thing is, it's all ludicrous. Nailed it.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It is ludicrous, even if that's a worthy goal, even
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: if it would be in our national interest to stop
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that production.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: It's all ludicrous, right?
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: It's not a, Nobody believes we would be bombing civilian
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: infrastructure because we were trying to foment unrest so that
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the nuclear program is disrupted. But they really backed them.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Why are they saying something so stupid?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: And it is because... well, they can't say they're.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Fomenting unrest because they want the regime to change because
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: either the goal of the war is not regime change
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: or the regime change has already taken place. They can't
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: say it's because they have a military necessity to conduct...
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the bombing missions that they're sending the military on because
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: they claim they have total dominance of the skies and
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: there's never been a more effective military campaign in the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: history of warfare. So they have to come up with
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: some cockamamie justification for doing this. And we all know
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: why they're doing it. He would be bombing civilian infrastructure
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: so that the threats to do so before the bombing
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: would have been true. They were real threats for whatever
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: future horrible threats he plans to do.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: What did Willie Collins do to you? What did Lily
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Collins do to you?
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Is that someone involved in- The star of Emily in Paris.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I don't, I've actually never- We have a fan here.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I've never seen Emily in Paris, and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I just thought it'd be, I just couldn't think of
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a show. I thought, I'll tell you, to be honest,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: if you want to get behind the scenes, I thought,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I thought, what would bombing, what would bombing Paris disrupt?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Emily in Paris.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Well, that's it. Hard to argue with that. So that's all.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: So if you really, if you really want to interrogate it.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: You know, own it halfway about that one.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: But it just, like, There might be, there is a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: justification for the threat he's issuing. He is trying to.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: The threat is a war crime, actually.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Well, the threat of, the threat of the bomb.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he, I, yes, but what, the threat
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: has a purpose.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: The threat, look, he's.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Pressure, political pressure. He's putting political.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Pressure on them to try to, to get to some
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: kind of a deal when, as we talked about last week,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: he's on this sort of ratchet of false threats and assurances,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and each one has to keep being backed up. He
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: does this threat, then he carries it out. Then what's
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the threat after that, if the regime holds together, but the,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Like once the threat, once he's acting on it, there
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: is no purpose because it only existed so that he
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: could try to get some sort of a deal to
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: end the conflict.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: It's sort of darkly funny and ironic that the administration official,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the White House official that talked to the Wall Street
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Journal was like, oh, it's to foment civil unrest to
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: topple the regime. When it's like that specific thing in
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the in the Geneva Conventions and in the DOD war
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: manual is against the law. to say that you are
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: going to target civilian infrastructure in order to foment unrest,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: in order to solve the dream. But you know what?
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: We get into, is it a war crime? Is it
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: not a war crime? And the reason we're talking about
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: this is I saw on Fox News this morning, John
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Roberts on Fox was like, going to be hard for
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: the Democrats to argue this is a war crime because
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: they did this in Kosovo, and they took out the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: power lines there in that war, and we did it
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: in the first Gulf War. And it's like, yeah, what
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: we learned after doing it in the first Gulf War
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: is that taking out the Iraqi power grid in the
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: first Gulf War ended up leading to countless, countless civilian deaths.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: And horrible consequences for decades.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's also stupid. It's a stupid strategy.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: War crime debate aside, you want the population to overthrow
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: their leaders and be a new, friendlier, U.S.-aligned Iran. So
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: you're going to bomb them into submission, take out all
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: their infrastructure, destroy the country for a decade. And then
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Trump's response on the ICC stuff is like, We're not
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: a party to it as a country. And also, like, okay, Haig,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: come and fucking get me if you want to arrest
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: me for war crimes. But his bigger problem is going
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: to be when the Iranians respond by hitting desalination plants
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: in Kuwait and Iraq and all these places. And then
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: you have a genuine humanitarian catastrophe.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Throughout the Gulf. Yeah, and I think people hear, like, oh,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: so a couple of bridges go away and power plants. Like,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that's not great. But, you know, the power plants go
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: down in a country. That means that every hospital where
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: someone's on a ventilator, someone's on dialysis– Little kids in incubators,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: insulin is spoiled. People die in hospitals right away if
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: all the power is gone. It hurts water treatment. Before
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: you even get to the bombing, the desalination plants, there's
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: water pumps that clean the water. So when you bomb
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: power plants, you get water that's contaminated that people drink,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: and that causes all kinds of diseases. food access, a
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: whole bunch of food spoils. I mean, like, it is
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: a humanitarian catastrophe just bombing the power plants, and never
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: mind anything else that he wants to do. Never mind
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: any of the people who are going to die, civilians
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: who are going to die in all of this. I mean,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: it's fucking nuts.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about here? No, we should not
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: be doing World War II-style total combat against the country
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: of Iran, a place we have not declared war against,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that Congress has not authorized a conflict with. There's no
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: even mention of any kind of imminent threat We are
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: still in a place where he needs to be saying
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: there's an imminent threat to the United States in order
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: to justify any kind of military action. No, bombing the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: bridges of Iran is not preventing any kind of imminent
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: threat to the country.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: The idea of like, oh, is it a war crime?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Is it not a war crime?
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be justified to bomb a power plant.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: All of that is predicated on a rational... set of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: goals you're trying to achieve in a military campaign that
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: you're weighing against the cost to the civilians, how could
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: it be proportional when we don't know why the fuck
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: we're doing it? Like, we don't even know what we're
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: doing it for.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Well, the strategy is also kind of, the logic's a
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: little bit faulty in that the regime is made up
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: of a bunch of lunatics who kill their people, but
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: somehow if you hurt their people, that's going to pressure
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: them to make a deal. Like, that's not usually how
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: it works. Here's one reaction to Trump He has gone
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: insane and all of you are complicit, meaning Republicans. Our
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: president is not a Christian and his words and actions
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: should not be supported by Christians. This is not making
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: America great again. This is evil. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Marjorie
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Taylor Greene. Speaking some truth. Probably one of the strongest
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: responses on Easter Sunday there. So on the rescue, because
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: we don't want to gloss over that, obviously an incredibly heroic,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: impressive operation by the military, which Trump spent a lot
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: of time talking about at the press conference. probably a
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: little too much, judging by this exchange with General Kane,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: How many men did you send all together, approximately, to
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: the operation?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I'd love to keep that a secret. Okay, well, we are.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: But I will tell you, the number, I'll keep it
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: a secret, but it was hundreds.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Sir, that's not how a secret works. Sir Hutter Colt, 152.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: This is.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Very much the person who reported this was anonymous, but
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: goes by either Lisa S.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Or L. Simpson. This is like just a couple weeks ago.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Remember when he divulged the member of Congress who had
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: a terminal illness that he believes he saved? Yeah. In
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: front of Mike Johnson's like, sir, that was not supposed
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to be public information. Oh, my God. What do you
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: think about Trump divulging all these all these details about
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a very, very highly secretive operation? I mean, just for
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: what it's worth, like I I watched the press conference.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: We all did.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Like, I'm very skeptical of anything that comes out of
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump's mouth or Pete Hegseth's mouth. Dan Cain, I think,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: is more of a just the facts kind of guy.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: The stories are amazing. This person climbing 7000 feet, the
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: pilot or.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: The bomber person, the airman. Sorry.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: To avoid getting captured. The A-10 Warthog pilot who got hit,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: continued to fight, flew out of the country and then
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: had to eject. It's amazing stuff. There will be medals
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: of honor awarded for this. But I kept hearing my
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: NSC staffer head was screaming, shut up. Why are you
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: guys doing this the whole time? Because what happens if
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: another pilot gets shot down and they want to conduct
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: a similar mission and they've just talked about all the
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: ways they did it? The CIA is bragging about creating
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: a disinformation campaign to.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Help the pilot get out of Iran.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: It feels like those assets or tools would be useful
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: as it's an ongoing conflict. Trump is the worst offender, obviously,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: about talking about sensitive details because you have both John Ratcliffe,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: the CIA director, and then Dan Cain, the chairman, started
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: their remarks by saying, like, I know you guys are
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: going to want a lot of details, but we're not
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: going to give them to you. And then Trump just
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: lays out all the details. Like, you keep reading examples
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: in news reports to the CIA's exquisite technologies or something
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: That's where they're fuzzing it up.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Trump seemed to all but confirm that it was a
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: drone or a satellite capability that was able to spot
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: the pilot on a mountain from 40 miles away at
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: night with some sort of specific new lens. That sounded
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: to me like a lot of detail I might not
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: want out. He was, again, bragging about cyber operations to
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: take out weapons systems in Venezuela. And the irony of
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: it all is they're also bitching about a leak, which
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: is a really bad leak that I think the news
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: outlets were reporting that the U.S. had identified the pilot,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: but the other crew member was still missing in Iran.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: And that obviously is a big tip for the Iranians.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: But so they're going to do a leak investigation. They
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: might even prosecute media outlets that reported on it. But
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: I think this was first reported by someone in Israel,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: an Israeli reporter who was really close to Netanyahu, which
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: makes you wonder, what if Netanyahu is the source on this?
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Then what happens?
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: So that was an interesting wrinkle in all of this.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: But I think this whole thing was very ill-considered.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: The fact that the military can achieve the goals that
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the president sets, whether in the rescue, which was extraordinary,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: or in being able to complete the objectives of the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: bombings of Iran, we have an extraordinary military with incredible capabilities.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: But the reason they were doing this today is they
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: want the respect and glory and plaudits to redound to them.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: But this administration doesn't get any of that credit. This
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: is not something that they did. This is something they
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: put the military in a position to have to execute.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad that they did. And I'm glad we
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: have a military that's capable of this. But all of the,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: everything that they're describing, all the techniques and capabilities that
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: may have been revealed, what our enemies learned from this,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the incredible cost of it, the risk of it, all
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: of it is not an argument that makes this administration
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: seem more impressive. It is all the more kind of
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like an example of how absurd it is that we've
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: put this incredible capabilities in the hands of this person
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to be deployed in this haphazard and dangerous way in
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: this campaign. So they are doing this because they think
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it makes them look good, but it just doesn't.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole thing pissed me off because like, you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: my first reaction when I saw the news that they
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: were rescued is like, oh, thank God. And then it
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: was like, wow, I can't believe the military pulled this off.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: It's incredible. And then my next reaction was being so
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: fucking pissed at Donald Trump for putting them in this position. And,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: you know, it's funny. I started thinking about all the
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: times we had to listen to fucking you know, war crime, Dr. Seuss,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth over the last week be like, we control
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: the skies. We fly over Tehran. No one can touch us.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: We do it. And then even today at the fucking
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: press conference, Hegseth goes, we control the skies. You see,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: we flew for seven hours in daylight over Iran to
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: get the first pilot and Iran did nothing about it. Well,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: they did shoot down two of our planes. So I
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: guess they did something about before that. And you keep
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: telling us that the whole military is destroyed, that their
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Navy is destroyed, that whatever. I mean, it's just a,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: it is indicative of their larger, how fucked up their
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: larger messages on this whole thing, which is like, we
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: won the war, but also we're going to bomb them
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: back to the stone age because we haven't won the
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: war yet.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: There was a, I remember we talked about this. I'm
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: not going to get even close to who it was,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: but there was, there was somebody that we thought was
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: like generally pretty smart, but they were like, and we're
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: talking about how like, oh, people's insecurities will always get
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: in the way of their, even the intentions that they have.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Even if they know what's best, their insecurities will always
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: get in the way. Like, who is this performance of
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: domination of Iran for right now?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Like, who is it for?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Like, Fox News, he's got the people on Fox News.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: The country's against this. Not a lot of people are
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: going to be persuaded by Pete Hegseth at the podium
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: talking about how we dominate the skies at this point
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: when gas prices are going to hit like movie theater
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: popcorn prices soon. And And it's certainly not helpful when
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: clearly we're in this sort of fucking like contest with
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people and of leaders in Iran that
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: are putting their own interest ahead of their peoples every
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: single day and who have their own need to protect
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: their egos more than they do protecting the people of Iran.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: What is the value at this point, right? Like, why
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: are you not speaking softly and carrying a big stick?
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Why are you not creating this space where if you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: really do believe that there should be a deal where
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you are talking about how much you want that kind
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: of a deal rather than like the endless like domination language,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the endless kind of hitting of this story. I don't
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: even know who it's for other than just for themselves
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: to make themselves feel like big, big guys, big, big boys.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: It's just who they are. Yeah. Right. It's Trump too.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Like watching, yeah.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I was reading– I was off last week. I was
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: reading the stories, like, seeing that these guys were downed
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: and then they were rescued. My reaction was thank God also.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: And there were all these people online who were like, oh,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: you– you know, you're probably unhappy that they got saved or,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: you know, this makes Trump look good.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: That's such a crazy thing.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: It's like my reaction was thank God both for the
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: missing airmen and for the people involved, the Americans involved
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: in the rescue effort, but also for this broader war
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: effort generally because I want it to be over. And
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: I thought the worst thing possible was if Iran suddenly
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: had a bunch of hostages.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Like the escalation that would have occurred from that, the
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: way this thing could get protracted, the way you could
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: see ground forces going in for some sort of like,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: it would have been awful. Like, thank God these guys
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: were out for every single reason imaginable under the sun.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I have the same thought too, is that like, if there's,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: God forbid, there's like a mass casualty event of American
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: troops or hostages and footage broadcast, like you think that's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: going to like bring us closer to some kind of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: end of the war or diplomatic, like that's exactly how
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: these things escalate and get out of hand. And when
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: you have bloodthirsty warmongers who are barbaric like Donald Trump
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and Pete Hegseth, then it's even fucking worse. So who
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: knows what the state of the negotiations will be by
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: the time this episode is out Tuesday. But as of
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: right now, they are not great. The U.S. reportedly tried
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: for an immediate 45-day ceasefire to give more time for
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: negotiations that would hopefully lead to a permanent deal. Iran
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: wants the permanent deal first. Trump thinks threatening to destroy
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: the entire country might change their minds. What do you
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: guys think?
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Does a 45-day ceasefire mean that Iran de facto reopens
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: the Strait of Hormuz for 45 days?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I think that's what they wanted. I read somewhere that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: was part of what they wanted in the 45-day ceasefire.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Because what scenario would Iran do that? Just sort of
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: like give up all your economic and political leverage that
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: is built and is building on Trump to end the conflict?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I don't see the logic of this for them in
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: any way. It seems like they've rejected the ceasefire. It
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: seems like their rejoinder was a set of maximalist demands.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I don't have any hope for a deal. Again, Trump
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: is like, we're just going to bomb you more because
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: the people want us to bomb you.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's crazy.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: And so meanwhile, like the Iranians are learning and adapting
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: and they're starting to use like clustered munitions on their
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: ballistic missiles that are hitting civilian areas in Israel and
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: could be very.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Effective against US bases.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: So I just, I feel like both sides seem to
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: think they have the upper hand in different ways.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: It does feel like a very Trumpian offer, which is like,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: let's get just a quick ceasefire now. And then we'll
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: just punt everything, you know, 45, just give me another
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: 45 days because everything is short term. Everything is tomorrow.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Let's see how the markets are. Let's see the, everything
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: will calm down. And then in 45 days at the
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: end of that, you know, maybe we'll push another 45
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: days if we don't get a deal and another 45 days.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: And so, and I think the Iranians know that obviously,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: why would they trust, how are they trusting them at
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: this point?
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: The, the, We also don't know what kind of information
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is getting. Obviously, reports that he's not getting
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the full picture of the implications of the war. But presumably,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: someone inside the White House is talking about what happens
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to oil prices if we escalate and Iran escalates, if
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the region is further destabilized, that this will have immediate
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and then sustained terrible economic consequences.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I'll just say, I hope.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump's threats do lead to some kind of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: a ceasefire of some kind, even if it seems unlikely,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: even if where we're at right now as we record this,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: it seems like both sides aren't willing to give because
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the best case scenario right now is that he does
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: not go through with what he is promising to go
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: through with. And the fear, whether it's because a plane
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: is shot down over Iran or because he feels obligated
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: to carry out threat is we are now on this
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: endless ratchet where, okay, he carries out this threat. The
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: regime doesn't fall and doesn't capitulate. What's the next group
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: of threats that comes after this? What happens in the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: next week after he's destroyed the country and yet the
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: country still exists and the regime is still in power?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know that they're thinking three days ahead, but
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I suppose the rest of us ought to at least
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: remember that there is a next week that will continue
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to be after he goes through with this on Tuesday.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous that we're talking about this right now
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: when right before the weekend after he gave that prime
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: time address. Remember when he was like, the Strait? We
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: don't need the Strait. The Strait, after we leave, the
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Strait will just open naturally. And now it's open the
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Strait or we'll bomb you back to the Stony. Go
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to hell.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Also, he keeps saying it's Europe's problem when like 80%
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: of the oil and gas that goes through the Strait
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: of Hormuz is going to Asia and it's screwing everyone there.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So yeah. Meanwhile, the war keeps getting more unpopular by
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the day here in America. Good news, Trump seems to
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: know that. Bad news, doesn't seem to care. Here he
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: is telling reporters at the White House Easter egg roll
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: that he'd like to take control of Iran's oil, only
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: if the rest of us would let him. Enjoy the
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: music in the background. If I had my choice, what
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: would I like to do? Take the oil. because it's
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: there for the taking. There's not a thing they can
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: do about it. Unfortunately, the American people would like to
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: see us come home. When you say the American people
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: don't want that, how do you know that? Are you
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: listening to polls?
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Well, I tell you what, I'm pretty good at this stuff,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: and I go around and I check.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: They'd like to see us win and come home. And
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: everyone's saying, oh, is Trump losing MAGA? No, I'm not
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: losing MAGA. MAGA loves what I'm doing.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: And CNN did a poll of MAGA voters, a big poll,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: very important poll.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Harry. And he went on, he said, this is amazing.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: 100% support. What do you say to Americans.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Who are not part of the war?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: They're foolish. I always quote from the book of Harry
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: on Easter. Harry. There's a big poll from CNN. It's
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a Harry poll. Got a Harry poll. Oil's the oldest
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: resurrection story, sir. Quite a message for the midterms there. Wild.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: You think Republicans are going to run on that? You think... Like,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: is he just... is he just impervious to bad polling?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Because it's funny, he did the Harry, the mag is
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: with me poll, but he clearly knows that it's not
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: popular with other people.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, every day I'm more convinced that Trump does not
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: give a shit about the midterms, does not give a
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: shit about the future of the Republican Party, does not
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: give a shit about J.D.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: Vance.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: This is a political smash and grab job for him,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: his cronies, his family to make as much money as
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: possible and then do things to burnish his legacy. There's
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: just no other explanation for why Uh, you would talk
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: like that for why you'd build the ballroom, like the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: monument to himself in Virginia, uh, start a war with
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Iran that sends oil prices to the moon and then
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: do it all before the midterms. And it's politically like,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: he's not even trying, like he didn't go to CPAC,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: but that because he said he was too busy, but
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: that week he went to the Saudi investment conference down
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: in Miami.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I wonder what, I wonder which entity can pay him
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: more over the long run. So like that, I heard
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: that foolish quote and my, my brain went to every
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: single attack ad I would run linking members of Congress
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: to the war in Iran, the kickoff with that quote.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: And then it's just like image after image of death
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: and destruction and skyrocketing energy prices, et cetera. We are
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: running out of Trump quotes to fit in a 60-second
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: ad because we just... I feel like once every couple
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: episodes now, we're like, this is the line that's going
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: to be in all the midterm ads. And I still
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: think they're all very ripe for this.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Easter... Remember the Easter lunch? We can't
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: afford Medicare. We have a war to pay for. Yeah, right.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: We had that just last week. Do you think this
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: is going to ruin the affordability tour? Do you think
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: you're still going to be hitting the road once a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: week for Susie Wild? that she wants him to do
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: that to sell his economic agenda? Eggs only. Omelets only
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: because he's proud of that price.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say the one thing you can also
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: take away, though, from what he's saying there is He
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: believes there is political pressure to get out of this, right?
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Like his version of I need to end this war
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: and declare victory is the American people want me to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: win quickly and leave. Now, the American people don't want
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to be in this conflict, but they certainly don't want
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: boots on the ground over us to invade Iran to
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: take the oil. And he does seem cognizant of that.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I think what there is a kind of story they're
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: telling themselves, which is this is still short. We will
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: get this quickly. The effects will recede. And it will
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: go into memory as the time we decimated the Iranian
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: military for the good of the region.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And unless then they bomb all the power plants
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and everything else. He's probably looking for some kind of
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: face-saving thing where he can say, like, I threatened them.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: They decided to give me this, which they probably didn't
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: give him whatever he's going to say they gave him.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: It is totally possible that while we're recording this, He says,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: we got a deal. Iran says we don't have a deal,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: but there's some story about how much they've given and
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the gifts they've given and the fact that he's not
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: going to do the bombing this week, but he could
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: do it next week.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Like, that is so possible.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: And I genuinely, like, fuck this guy and fuck these people,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: but man, I really hope that they can pretend, like,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: pretend they have some kind of a win because what
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: they are promising and what comes after, like, it just...
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it's so clear that they're being cavalier, but I would
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: rather Trump be able to walk out in the Rose
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Garden tomorrow and say, I did it, I achieved everything
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I said I was, everyone was wrong about me, than
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: have him go through with this.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I really would. Not me, I want him to go
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: through with this. Who's arguing the other side of that straw, man? No,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying you. No, I want a catastrophic war
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: where they kill all the people.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying you do. I'm not saying you do,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: but I would rather me personally be wrong. Of course,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I want him, the best.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Outcomes end this war tomorrow, for sure, and it's going
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: to involve him spinning some bullshit.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I just think that the The chances of that are
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: so much less than they are with all the other
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: bullshit he's done. Right. Which is like, you know, I
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: keep thinking and making this comparison. It's like the tariffs,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: you know, and you're like, well, the tariffs are into
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the taco thing. You're like, oh, he backed off. It's fine.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: And then it's saving face because it's a treaty about
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: fucking tariffs. You know, like this is you're dealing with
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: like I think that the people on the other side
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: of this are. Maybe. They get a vote. Yeah, they
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: get a vote. Israelis do too. I'm not going to
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: say that they're completely crazy because I'm sure they're doing
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: things in their self-interest, but they certainly don't care about
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: the people of their country all that much. They care
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: about the regime and the regime's survival. So it's like
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: you're dealing with people who aren't fucking.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Trump wants to end this to deal with the near-term
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: political challenges. The Iranians don't want to get bombed again
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: in six months or 12 months or 18 months. They're
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: thinking longer term. They want a deal where the U.S.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: can force the Israelis not to keep bombing them, too.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: They're playing a longer game here.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they apparently want the end of the war in
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Lebanon as well as part of the deal. Yes, they
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: want the end of the war in all the fronts,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: which then also includes Iraq.
• 32:53
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• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Regardless of what the polls say today, it's becoming pretty
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: clear that they're going to get worse. And that's because
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: even if the war does end today, the economic damage
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: will last for some time. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: told Politico, quote, I don't think we're going back to
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: the pre-war prices for the foreseeable future. Certainly won't be
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: this year. Won't even be next year. Might not be ever.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: ever okay uh and uh and then we got jamie
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: diamond who was on fox last week just cheerleading the
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: war what was that i was shocking that was another
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: one i was like tommy should be here to yell
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: about jamie dickhead what does he he was an asshole
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: went out of his way too what what like what
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: a kiss didn't need to appear on fox didn't he
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: was like hello to all the fox viewers i'm jamie
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: diamond and i'm here to say that like uh I
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: love war with Iran in a major way. It was
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: basically like, the Iranians caused October 7th and Americans died.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: He sounded like fucking Netanyahu. Bizarre. Great. So he warned
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: in his annual letter to shareholders, because that's important to him,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: that there could be more oil price shocks in the
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: coming months and that the war could keep inflation and
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: interest rates high. But, you know, people might have to
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: pay more. He said this on a podcast. People might
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: have to pay more, but, you know, the economy is resilient.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jamie Downs. Is it? Right now, people feel
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: worse about the economy and inflation that at any time
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: since the post-COVID inflation surge. I just saw that gas
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: prices have now surpassed in AAA records like the gas
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: prices and tracks the gas prices higher than at any
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: time since right during COVID with the supply shock for
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: COVID in history. So that's where we are with gas
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: prices now. I am having a hard time imagining that
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: people don't feel worse about the economy than they do today.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: on election day. Like, I don't know how this, I don't,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think this gets better by election day at
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: this point. I think we've, even if the war ends today,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I think we've passed the point of no return about
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: things getting worse in the next couple months, but I
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: don't know. Does anyone disagree?
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: No.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, like, so you're right. Gas prices are what,
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: like 412 today is the national average. I think that
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: goes up before it goes down and it could go
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: up dramatically. Similarly, natural gas prices, especially in Europe are
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: up and will be up for a while, especially as
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: they go into the winter. So that energy shock is
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: like the initial thing we're feeling, but it's far from
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: the only implication because fertilizer prices are way up, right?
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: That's going to lead to higher prices, lower yields, potentially
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: food shortages. Countries in Asia are rationing fuel. They're shutting
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: down factories. So like the economic impact is across the economy.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: They got like work from home going in Asia. Yes.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: And like flights are grounded. Like people can't get jet fuel.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: And then, so it's like developing countries are getting hit now.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Then it hits major economies in India and Japan and
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: South Korea. They start to slow down You guys talked
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: about helium, apparently, and ripped some helium.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: On an episode, right? We did. We did some whippets here.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: That would impact semiconductor manufacturing, which, you know, that happens
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: to be propping up the entire U.S. artificial intelligence bubble,
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: the availability of all these semiconductors. The Gulf is going
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: to take, like, a multi-hundred-billion-dollar hit to GDP, and all
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: the various industries, their gigantic sovereign wealth funds are propping up,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: will be impacted. So, like, I just– there's a way–
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: This will ripple out in ways we are not seeing now.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: It will last for a long time. None of it
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: is good. The fact that Jamie Dimon can like be
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: blasé about this is crazy to me.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Trump has failed to address people's concerns about prices before
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: he started this war in Iran. Everything he's done, tariffs
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: have made matters worse.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: He's rested.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: On the resilience of the American economy to protect him
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: from the bad policies he's pursuing. But gas prices will
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: be going up as we head into the summer. Even
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: if there's some recovery months from now, people will have
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: experienced months and months of the economy of prices going up.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: By the time you get to November, that will be
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: additive that will aggregate as people kind of come to
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: their conclusions as we head towards November. And we'll get
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: to it in a minute, but it's not as though
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Trump is out there doing his affordability tour. We've just
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: gotten a window into his priorities for next year, and
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to answer the mail.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the budget's out. And lest anyone thought that
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: what he said at the Easter lunch was just a gaffe,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: it was not. Again, remember he said a He said,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: we're going to all have to start paying higher taxes
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: via state taxes. The states are going to have to
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: raise taxes if we want child care. Then he added
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Medicaid and Medicare because the federal government is busy, quote,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: fighting wars. And, quote, we have to take care of
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: one thing, one thing, military protection. So then they released
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the budget. The official budget request for 2027, they're asking
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: for $ 1. 5 trillion for the Department of Defense. That is
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: an increase of $ 400 billion dollars. and that doesn't include
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: the rumored $ 200 billion supplemental for the war. Trump proposes
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: paying for all this new war spending with huge cuts
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: to just about everything else, health programs, medical research, education funding.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: One big exception, White House renovations. The budget says there
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: were $ 377 million in improvements last year, and they're estimating
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: another $ 174 million in spending for next year, which includes
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: both the ballroom and other renovations. Apparently they told Politico...
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Weren't the tech companies all paying for the ballroom with
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: the bribes? I thought the ballroom was gratis. I thought
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: the ballroom was on tech. I thought there was a
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: gift from our overlords. Some White House official anonymously told Politico, like,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: some of the private money is included, but, like, that
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: doesn't really add up, so I don't know what the
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: hell they're talking about there. Axios mused that, quote, the
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: most powerful populist of this century is at risk of
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: becoming what he ran against, a deficit-spending interventionist asking working-class
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Americans to shoulder the cost of war. Perhaps a sign
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: that maybe he was never actually a populist in the
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: first place. I don't know. Wow. Perhaps he's a hypocrite.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just can't think of anything like just on
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: a Democratic consultant's ketamine journey. I don't think you'd come
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: up with something better than not just a $ 1. 5 trillion
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: defense budget to cut health care and other social spending,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: but also north of $ 500 million on a Trump home reno. Like,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: that is an extraordinary message for us.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: These consultants, these strategists could be frothing at the mouth.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: A lot of frothing. And then they look at the
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: news and everyone's like, Hasan Piker!
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Let's relitigate Gaza!
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: They're like, look at our poll! We've been showing this pretend...
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: this pretend message for a decade that they want to,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: they want to cut your healthcare to pay for tax
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: cuts for the rich and his ballroom and this fucking
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: war that no one wants. And now it's happening in
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: real life. I want a third way summit on streamers.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: It's just like, it is so clear that the least.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: America first policy platform you could design. I like voters
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: are not stupid. They know that Trump promised to invest
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: at home, to take care of Americans first, to avoid
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: foreign wars. And is this a thing you said last
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: week when he'd said, he bragged about telling his OMB director,
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: we're fighting wars.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: We can't take care of daycare.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. That's a bad quote. That's a bad quote. And
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Medicare and Medicaid. He throws those in at the end.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: He didn't know that he didn't know the cameras. He
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: didn't know it was being live streamed. Yeah.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: And before, so the $ 1. 5 trillion Pentagon proposal, a budget
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: proposal was floated before the Iran war. And afterwards, there
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: was a Washington Post story about how the Pentagon literally
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: couldn't figure out how to spend all the extra money.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: They were like, What bullshit weapon systems do we need
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: to acquire with?
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: They don't know. Who's asking for this then? I don't know.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Nobody was.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: And so now, I guess you could fill that need
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: with all the interceptor missile stockpiles and shit.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: It sounds like we're running low.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: But that's not a money problem. That's a supply problem.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: That will take decades to fix. It's just all of this, again,
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: makes me think this guy does not care about politics anymore.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Just doesn't give a shit.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: It's also great.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: It's, you know, all these are big defense contractors that
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: make a lot of money. There's every, every, every dollar
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: in the defense budget goes to some district. That is,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: this is saying yes to everybody, every Republican member who
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: he needs, every contractor, every, every, every executive coming through.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: This is money that gets to their pockets one.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Way or another. Although I did see that some Republicans
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: already in Congress are like, I don't know about this budget.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: But then, of course, they can't have like a full-throated
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: critique of the budget. I think Susan Collins' quote was like, well,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Congress does have the power of the purse. Oh, really,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Susan Collins? Go ahead. I dare you to vote for this. Yeah.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: It's funny to think like when we first started having
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: the conversation about a supplemental funding request coming down the
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: pike to pay for the Iran war, initially the reports
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: were it was going to be like maybe $ 50 billion.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Then it was $ 200 billion. And the framing was– oh no,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: what a tough vote for Democrats. They could be accused
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: of being, you know, not supporting the troops. And now
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, this is the most politically devastating thing
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: for Republicans. I could possibly draw up in my brain
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: if I tried.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Marjorie Taylor Greene's out there calling them evil.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: And everyone's like, oh, are we going to support the
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: troops with the budget?
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Nancy Mace is like, I'm a hell no on this
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: stupid budget and stupid war.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Lauren Boebert, yeah.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: A 40% increase in the largest Pentagon budget in history
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: as time points out that they don't know how to spend.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: But that is not enough to do the kind of
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: military conflicts he wants to do.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: So really they need $ 1. 2 trillion this year, go up.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: To $ 1. 4 trillion next year.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: In part, by the way... Because Cuba's on the back
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: burner now. Right.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: But one lesson they've learned is that if Donald Trump
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: is going to become an interventionalist regime changer, you need
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: a bigger baseline because you can't go back to Congress
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: to ask for more money.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: But a lot of it, I think, is for the
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Golden Dome missile defense system, which probably doesn't work You know.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I think it's a magic force field around America. Yeah.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, he thinks it's it's he's trying to make
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: a play on the Iron Dome system, which is Israel's
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: short range rocket system, which works very well. But those
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: are like little like Katyusha rockets that are flying in
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: from Lebanon, not intercontinental ballistic missiles where you're hitting up,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: you know, something going Mach seven with a bullet.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. Yes.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: And I do think if we start to face missile
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: barrages from Quebec and Toronto, I think we've got bigger
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: fish to fry.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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  Speaker 3: a lot going on in the world. Big war happening.
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  Speaker 3: Lots of scary s * * t. Donald Trump's the
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  Speaker 1: and grow your businesses are built in. I heard that
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  Speaker 1: Don Lemon told Alex Wagner on our Sunday episode of
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  Speaker 1: Patsy America that he might run for president. That's why
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  Speaker 1: I'm squatting on Don for America. Don, Don Lemon for America.
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• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about immigration and mass deportations. So, Noam, Lewandowski,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Bovino have all been fired. ICE and CBP have drawn
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: down from Minneapolis and other cities. And the DHS shutdown
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: will likely end when Congress gets back without Democrats having
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: voted for any new funding for immigration enforcement. And yet
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: there was a big story in The Times this weekend
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: about how the only lesson Stephen Miller has learned from
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: all this is to pursue his purge of immigrants, including
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: those who are here legally, more quietly. Sure enough, The
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Times also had an absolutely heartbreaking story about Annie Ramos,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: a dreamer who just got married to an active duty
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: army staff sergeant who is preparing for deployment. So she's
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: been in America since she was almost two years old.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: She's 22 now, a few months away from getting her
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: college degree. She teaches Sunday school at her church. And
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: she just showed up with her new husband at his
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: army base with her birth certificate, passport, marriage license, so
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: she could get her green card. And then when they
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: got there, I showed up. shackled her, took her away,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and now she's facing deportation. And this is all after
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: the wife of another Army reservist was finally released from
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: ICE custody last week after four months in detention. I
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: want to get your takeaways from both the Miller piece,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: very long piece about Stephen Miller, but had a lot
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: in it about sort of the Trump administration's larger immigration
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: strategy and the Ramos story, just in terms of like
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: where all this is headed.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the way the administration talked about Ramos, I thought
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: was revealing too, because they say, basically, she tried to
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: enter a military base and she has a lawful deportation order.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: And it's like with her husband. And that order was
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: from when she was a baby. It's an order from
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: when she was a literal.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: 22 month old child.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: So that's who they're going after. And everyone acknowledges this
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: is the, like under no previous administration, under No one's
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: understanding of how the law should be applied was a
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: person like this ever gone after in the past. No,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: there's just simply no justification for it whatsoever. But I
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: think it does speak to the larger point about what
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller is trying to do here because he is not.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Humbled at all.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: He has the same mission and the same goals. They're
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: trying to just do it more quietly. And the two
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: things that jumped out about, to me, in the Miller
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: piece about what they're trying to do next, one was
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: talking about how to go after immigrants who apply for
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: credit cards.
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: And the other was his work with local legislators in
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Tennessee to require state or local officials to report people
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: who receive services at hospitals, social service agencies, and some
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: public schools despite being in the country illegally. And so
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: it is more of an effort to weaponize the financial system,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: the information we gather about people, the way people have
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: to access services and care to try to do more
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: with a scalpel what drew such attention when they did
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: it with like an ax.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Those things jumped out at me too. And then
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: the only other one was they're trying to, for legal immigrants,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: any legal immigrant here who happens to ever get public assistance, Medicaid,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: anything like that, he wants that they, he and the
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: new fraud czar, JD Vance and the rest of them
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: want to go after that and try to prove that
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: they somehow illegally obtain their benefits. Not so they can
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: just take the benefits away, but like then deport the
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: legal immigrant.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: We're really spoiling the end of this book about what
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: he learned from Catholicism. Not, not, not, uh, not really
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: internalizing what the wafer is supposed to represent.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I get through the communion, but militarily it was one
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: of the best.
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: It was a fantastic Easter for the military.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Um, yeah, the time piece of a Steve Miller, uh,
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: It's my favorite kind of story, and that evaluated my priors.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: He's calling the shots. Trump has outsourced immigration policy to him.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: He's the worst of the worst when it comes to
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: pushing cruel, racist policy ideas, but he's better at playing
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: politics than the other goons, the Bovinos or the Kristi
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Noems or the Lewandowskis, probably because he's closest to Trump
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: and can whisper to him and blame others for when
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: he gets in trouble and step away.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Like all of them, yeah. Blame all of them.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: The other thing that was really important about that Stephen
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: Miller story that relates to the other articles you mentioned
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: was It just showed that the ICE and CBP abuses
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: in Minnesota had a huge political impact.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: And the communities pushed back, brushed back Trump and Stephen
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Miller in a significant way. And I think it just
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: shows you the power. I mean, obviously, like ICE murdering,
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: CBP murdering someone on camera is like horrific in ways
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: that I hope will never be repeated. But stories like these,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: you know, the anecdotal evidence of these innocent people caught
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: up in a cruel system, treated in a cruel, bureaucratic,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: heartless way. and punished for something they, when they did
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: nothing wrong. I think like people react to that strongly and,
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: and it shows the importance of lifting up these examples
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: and like just speaking to people's humanity.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: And I think why it's important to keep up that
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: pressure and not to see the firings and the drawdown
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: of ice in the cities and everything else is like,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: all right, we won this chapter onto the next fight,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: you know, because all this is like, we just seen
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: that with any Ramos. and all these other stories. I
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: just saw CBS 2 interviewed Liam Ramos. Remember the five-year-old
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: in Minnesota and his dad, and they're still being threatened
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: with deportation. There's this part in the story where Liam
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: is now, you know, he's a five-year-old kid. He's now
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: seeing a psychologist because he's like dealing with such trauma.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: And he's a five-year-old boy. And he's like, I'm more
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: than anything, I'm just scared of ICE. I'm scared of immigration.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: I'm scared of what might happen. And like, yes, that's Liam.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: But think of how many children out there are in
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: the exact same spot think of how many children are
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: in detention right now right like if you've been in
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: detention if you're still there like the the trauma that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: like it's just fucking up these kids lives and and
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: miller is the other thing from the story miller's focused
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: on ramping up deportations of non-citizens to faraway countries with
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: the hopes of encouraging immigrants still in the united states
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: to leave voluntarily so that is a you know a
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: nice way of saying that like He wants to send
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: them to third countries that they've never been to. Like
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Libya or South Sudan.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: So not for any other reason but to send a
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: message to other immigrants to leave now yourself or we
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: are going to send you to somewhere where you're probably
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: going to die or just be enslaved. Yeah, exactly. He's
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: an evil person.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: It does connect, I think, too, to what we're seeing
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: with how they're conducting the war in Iran. It connects to, like,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: people try to say, oh, you know, don't. You know,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Trump says crazy things online. He says terrible things about whatever.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Rob Reiner, his enemies and their spouses who died. But
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: it's all a lack of proportionality, all of it, right?
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Like there is no, there's no empathy. There's no like,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: there's no like recognizing of someone's humanity and how they're
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: conducting these policies. It is just zero forbearance, like all attack,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: do as much damage as you can, regardless of the
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: consequences to achieve whatever ends you've set.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Out.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: And so like when they try to dismiss Trump, when
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: he's like ranting and raving online, like, no, that's the
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: person making these policies. That's the connection between the threat
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: to bomb a power plant in Iran and willing to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: go after our military spouse in the U S like
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: these people lack character and it will affect, and it will,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: it will be, it will be infused in everything that
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: they do.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: That reminded me of just the one other nugget in
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: that story is, uh, again, we could talk about confirming
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: your prior, something I had suspected, but I think it was,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: it was news in the story. Remember that like a
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: long time ago, I there was that video of in
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: a New York City immigration courthouse and that ICE officer
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: tackled that woman who was just there for her husband.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: And like, shockingly, the next day ICE was like, oh,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: that person's been fired. And I was like, wow, that's like,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: they finally backed off. And it says in the story
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: that the state that ICE is doing that, like fucking
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: made Stephen Miller so angry that he like got involved,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: reversed it, and then made them hire the guy back.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: And it just goes to show like exactly, like, This is,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: it is all like from the top, from Stephen Miller
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: to try to send, like he's using, he is using
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: like torture and cruelty to send a message to immigrants.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Like that is the whole thing. You are unleashed is
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: the quote from it. Yeah, you are unleashed. It's, it's
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: fucking awful. All right. One last thing before we get
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: to Levitt's conversation with Sarah McBride, uh, Donald Trump decided
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: to do Democrats a huge favor, uh, in the California
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: governor's race. Don't, don't say he's never done anything for us.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Easter miracle. Yeah, I know.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: Resurrected the California Democratic Party.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: So as we've discussed because of the so-called jungle primary
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: format here, um, we have been in danger of seeing
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: two Republicans advance to the runoff because so many Democrats
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: are in the race, it's splitting the vote. So you
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: have all these polls with Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: the two Republicans as one and two, which means that
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: the Democrats would be locked out of the general election. Well,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: on Monday morning, Trump took to Truth Social to endorse
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Republican Steve Hilton. And I'll just quote Politico here, quote,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: dealing a potentially fatal blow to GOP rival Chad Bianco's
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: campaign and to Republicans' hopes of locking Democrats out of
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: the runoff. It's so funny. I think you and I
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: talked about this and I was like, how have other
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Democratic campaigns not elevated one of the two Republicans by now?
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Because that's the way Schiff got it done. That's the
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: way Newsom got it done before. And like, no one's
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: done that yet. It turns out they didn't need to.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: Trump did it for them. Well, and they were they
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: were planning to.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: And by the way you do that is by spending
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: like tens of millions of ads supporting Republicans.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: So that was the position they were about to be
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: in every day.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Every California Democratic Party activist or operative I know are
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: just ecstatic, and they literally can't believe it's happening to
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: the point where they're all looking for conspiracy theories. Do
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: you think he's too stupid to know this was a
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: political disaster for California? Or he just doesn't care? He
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: wanted to do a favor for Steve Hilton?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Steve Hilton said he didn't ask for it.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Steve Hilton said he never talked about the race with Trump.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: He didn't ask for an endorsement. Like maybe Trump is
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: so delusional that he believes his own bullshit about like,
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: if not for the illegal votes that he would have won.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: One other theory I heard is that Trump wants Hilton
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: in the race because he's actually a good spokesman. He
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: will spend six months attacking Gavin Newsom in California and
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: like soften Gavin up. Like, I don't know, interesting theory.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: But I think Occam's razor that he's a dumb, lazy asshole.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: He just did something stupid.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Occam's razor is he like saw some segment on Fox News. Exactly.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: And was just like, I'm in.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: And by the way, that word Hilton. That's a good,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: that's a hotel word for him. But yeah, look, Democrats
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: have wanted to elevate a Republican so that there would
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: be just one Republican so that they didn't have to
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: face a Democrat. In the current situation, Democrats need to
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: elevate one Republican so that it's not just two Republicans,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: which is like a different kind of a problem. I
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: think the truth is like, it is a genuine risk
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: that Democrats could be shut out of having a candidate
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: in the general if more people don't drop out and
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: the thing doesn't coalesce. But even if both of the
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: two Republicans were splitting the vote more evenly, any kind
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: of coalescing will probably result in one Democrat getting above
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: the other. So I think it's a little too cute
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: by half to think that Donald Trump's action is going
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: to result in something that is likely different than what
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: would have happened anyway.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: You think so? Why?
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Because I think it is still likely, even if the
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: two Republicans were splitting the vote, that there will be
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: a coalescing among the Democrats and one would rise to
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: the top.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm on the Democrats. You're saying not on the Republicans. No,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: not on the Republicans.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that if the two Republicans continue to split
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: the vote, what is more likely? Is it more likely
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: the Democrats truly remain completely divided and those two move on?
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Or is it the two Republicans splitting the vote might
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: keep their numbers low enough that two Democrats could get through.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's right now, I think it would probably
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: be more likely that two Democrats would get through. And
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: so you might, like, if you were thinking about this
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: in terms of, all right, they're going to, Democrats are
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: going to start dropping out. You would want one Republican
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: to rise to the top if you want a.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Republican to be in the general. I think that's another,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: that is, I think, a reasonable way to think about it.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I think the reason that everyone was so freaked out
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: about this is, like, whether or not the the party
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: establishment finally coalesces around one Democrat. California is just a
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: big fucking state and there's so many voters and it's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: been so hard to get attention for this race because
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: we're all talking about Trump all the time and everything's
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: nationalized that like, you could see, I mean, we're getting
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: down to it. You can see towards the end, even like,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: you know, important political figures deciding to back one candidate
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: or the other. And then the voters are just sort
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: of like, I don't know, and just going into it.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: And it's just like, of all the political figures who
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: could make a statement in this race, like we've been thinking, well,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Newsom endorsed or Kamala or even Barack Obama or someone
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: like that. It's like, no, actually the person, the political
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: figure who could make the biggest difference is Donald Trump.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: By endorsing one of the Republicans. I still think that
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: like one of those, we've talked about this before, but
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: like Steyer, Porter or Swalwell, like those are probably your,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: one of those three candidates is going to end up
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: being governor. Yeah, very likely.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: I still think, look, Candidates have a week or two,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: and then I think they need to decide to drop
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: out and endorse other people. If you're not at 5%
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: in the polls by April 15th, when ballots are getting
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: mailed to people, when this thing is really getting into
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: the final stages, you're not going to win. Early vote starts, what,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: May 4th?
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Is that right? Early vote is soon.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: Everyone needs to be big boys and big girls and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: realize that if you're still at 5% or less a
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: month before the primary, you're it's not happening for you.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: So get out of the race, endorse someone else, like
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: do something good for the party here. Because my God, if,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: if there were some version of this where two Republicans
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: make it through and we are locked out of the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: general election, that is a catastrophic disaster.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Especially, especially now, now that we had Donald Trump help
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: us out here.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I did see that. So you see CNN's doing a debate,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of debate for this. And it's going
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: to be in May, May 5th, I think. It is
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: weird to me that their criteria is you have to
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: hit 3% in two polls. I would have, I would
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: have made that a little tougher.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Probably avoiding some of the political challenges that USC got.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: But the other problem here too is, yeah, some of
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: these candidates that are polling really low, they need to
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: drop out. But if we still are getting close to
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: like mid-May and you have three Democrats that are kind
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: of can all claim to be something like the front runner,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: kind of vaguely evenly splitting, like that is when it
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: actually Trump jumping in as being helpful because then you
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: could still end up with two Republicans. But the harder challenge, right,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: is- What happens when we need one of those three
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: to decide? Like when they're splitting all the votes and
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: they each have a justified reason for being in the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: race and we're heading towards the election.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: And then you go to the tribal council. It's like,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: who's going to? Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: And I know a thing or two about unjust results
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: at a tribal council.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: You're like, I've been home for five weeks. Oh, anyway.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: So that was, you know, ending on ending on some
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: good news. Yeah, I like that. Thank you, Donald Trump.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Thanks for your help, buddy.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: When we come back, Sarah McBride. Pod Save America is
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• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Congresswoman Sarah McBride, welcome back to the pod.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: You've been in Congress a year. What do you know
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: now that you wish you knew a year ago?
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't know that I know things now that
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: I didn't know then. I think I know them more deeply.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: I think, one, I know that there is still a
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: chance for us to get things done. Two, I know
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: very deeply the stakes of this moment. And the cowardice
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: of many of my Republican colleagues, most of my Republican colleagues,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 5: almost all of my Republican colleagues, to obviously the stakes
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: of the administration. But you know, actually, one thing that
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: is interesting that I know we talked about last time
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: that I have come to realize over the last year,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: I know we talked about the reality TV show nature
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: of Congress. And I used to think that The antics
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: we saw from folks in Congress who were taking up
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 5: a lot of oxygen was the politics of reality TV
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: in pursuit of a rational goal. Attention for the sake
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: of power, for the sake of influence. What I've come
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: to realize over the last year is that for many
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: of the folks that you see taking up oxygen on
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: the other side of the aisle in particular, it's not
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: in pursuit of a rational goal.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: It's actually an addiction.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 5: And I think that's one of the things we actually
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 5: don't talk a lot about. It's not pursuit of attention
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: to win the competitive attention economy. One of the things
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: you most frequently hear about these people when they get
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: to Congress is they were so normal when they got there.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: And granted, they're people who ran for office, so I
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: doubt they were that normal. But by congressional standards, that
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: they were relatively normal. And then what happens is with
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: all of the best intentions– they go viral once. And
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: they're not doing it in pursuit of that, but they
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 5: just find themselves going viral for something they've done. And
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: we know that social media is addictive. And when someone
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: posts a picture online and it gets a couple hundred
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: more likes than usual, it's a dopamine hit.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: It's a puff of a cigarette.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: But when you go viral nationally... it is like the
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: most instantly addictive drug. And I don't mean that as
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: a trite throwaway line. I don't mean that as a metaphor.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: I mean, literally, it is addictive. And one of the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: things that we don't talk a lot about is that
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: much of the behavior you're seeing in Congress is from
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: people who are struggling themselves. They find themselves going viral.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: And as is the case with many addictions, They will
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: debase themselves and inflict collateral damage on anyone else in
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: pursuit of that next high. And it's the same strategy
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: that I employed before, but it's a different understanding because
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: in the context of people coming after me early on,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 5: my job was not to take the bait. It was
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: not to give them the response that they want. And
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 5: in this case, it's to be essentially a clogged bong,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: like just to not give them the high that they
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 5: want so that they will go and chase it elsewhere.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: But in so doing, what I don't think I realized
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: was just how much opportunity that would unlock for me
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: in not taking the bait. I knew it was what
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: I needed to do to get them off of me.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: I knew I think it's what I needed to do
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 5: on behalf of my constituents. But what happened after those
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: first few months when I didn't take the bait, when
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: I wasn't that effective high, was I had a number
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: come up to me. And not only say, welcome to Congress,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: not only say, I'm so sorry with what they're doing,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: it's not very Christian, but to have a number of
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: my colleagues on the other side of the aisle come
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: up to me and say, let's find opportunities to work
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: together to show people that not everyone here is like that.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 5: Because they saw that I was willing to work across disagreement.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: They saw that I was willing to be a serious
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 5: substantive legislator, not someone who was simply there to chase
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 5: the high of attention. And it's now resulted in me
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: being able to introduce more bipartisan legislation than any other
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: freshman this Congress. So you make lemonade out of lemons.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because on the other side of that, specifically,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: your time in Congress began with Nancy Mason, Lauren Boebert.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: you know, chasing you around the Capitol in case you
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: had a bill in the chamber, as it were. And
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: they've both, you know, Lauren Berber just had a series
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: of public humiliations. Nancy Mace had that incident at the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: airport and is largely despised, it seems, by her colleagues
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and also reportedly members of her staff. Is there something
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: about the way those people treated you and what has
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: happened to them sort of publicly, politically, that kind of
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: fits in this analogy of, I would say it's actually
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: more like, you know, I don't know if it's about
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: a bong thing. It feels more like a stronger drug
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: they're hitting.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 6: Yes, much stronger drug, yes.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Is there a connection, you think, between the ways in
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: which they've unraveled and the ways in which they went
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: after you?
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think that goes directly back to what
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: I was saying. And I think it's particularly true for
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 5: some of the folks, which is that, as is the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: case with any addiction, if you are someone with real
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: pain or trauma, if you're someone who's not well, you
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: are more likely to fall into addictive behavior and fall
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 5: prey to addiction. And I think that that is what
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 5: we saw from some of the folks who came after me.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: They were not doing well. And in the case of
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 5: Nancy Mace, I wish her well in her campaign, all
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: the best in her campaign for governor. I think it's
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 5: time that Republican voters in South Carolina choose someone who
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: came into Congress standing up to Donald Trump, denouncing the insurrection,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: someone who came into Congress and proclaimed their support for
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 5: not only gay rights, but trans rights. I think that's
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: the type of person that Republican primary voters in South
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: Carolina should choose to be their next governor.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Such an important point.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Such an important point.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: So Lauren Boebert actually has come out against, in a
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: pretty strong way, Trump's proposed supplemental. He's out there seeking
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: a $ 200 billion deal.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Supplemental.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of Democrats have come out against it. You're
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: part of the congressional progressive caucus that has come out
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: against it. At the same time, there are some Democrats
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: in the Senate, including Delaware's Chris Coons, who have not been,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: who have been more equivocal on whether to support funding
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: the military because of the Iran war than a Republican
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: like Lauren Boebert. Is that disappointing to you? Do you
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: wish that that all Democrats were more emphatic in saying
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: that we will not vote to provide military funding to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: kind of, in effect, go back and authorize the war?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: Well, I think my understanding is that one comment maybe
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 5: got taken out of context and he came back and
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: I think was pretty clear and unequivocal.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Clearer, for sure, yes.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: And my sense is that.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 5: Pretty much every Democrat in Congress understands that a supplemental
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 5: to fund this war would be both in perception, but
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: also probably in reality, a validation retroactively of the administration's
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: reckless and illegal war in Iran, which is clear today
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: than ever, but was always clear that it was going
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: to be a failure. And I don't anticipate any Democrat,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: but maybe one obvious one in the Senate. And I
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: don't know about any in the House voting in favor
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: of a supplemental, no matter whether it's $ 50 million, $ 100 million,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: or $ 200 million. And I think this is a moment
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: where we should be absolutely clear and unequivocal that we
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: will not give one dime to this president's war, not
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 5: just because of the process that he didn't go through,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 5: but because this war is stupid, it is dumb, and
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: it is making us less safe. We are more than
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: a month into this war. I think the president's going
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 5: through different stages of grief right now. I think the
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 5: press conference we just saw from him is a mix
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 5: of negotiation and denial in the process of grief, because
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: a month and a week in, we have a new
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: supreme leader who's, by all accounts, more extreme and more
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 5: pro-nuclear than before. Everything we have destroyed can be rebuilt
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 5: and can probably be rebuilt with the billions of dollars
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 5: that Iran now has because of the easing of sanctions
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: and their closing of the Strait of Hormuz, which was
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: entirely predictable and predicted, but the president thought we would
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: have won long before they would have the chance to
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: do it. And now our adversaries in Russia and China,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: Russia is swimming in revenues that they didn't have, which
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: will make peace in Ukraine that much harder. And China
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: is not only accessing oil in a way that much
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: of the rest of the world is not. They also
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: now understand our military and operational capabilities far better today
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: than they did two months ago, which means they would
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 5: be better prepared to potentially invade Taiwan. All at the
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: same time, we're further alienating our allies in Europe and costs,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: including the cost.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 6: Of gas, are going up here.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: So I don't anticipate any Democrat, save for maybe one,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: voting for such an ill-thought-out war by validating through the
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: appropriations process $ 200 million to continue down this path.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: As someone who's tried to find places to reach out
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: to Republicans, I talked about this with Tim Miller from
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: The Bulwark. And his point was that Trump is in
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: terrible political territory. This war was a war of choice
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: that we should never have pursued. Gas prices are through
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: the roof. Most of the country is against this. We
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: should be on offense. And that includes trying to talk
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: to Republicans, whether it's on television, on Fox News or
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: to your colleagues in the House to try to get
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: as big of a coalition together that opposes the war,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: funding the war, supporting the war. Are you talking to
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: our is there a conversation between Democrats and Republicans about
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: making sure that that that there isn't a supplemental that
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: gets through because they don't have a lot of margin
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of Republicans have expressed, if not outright opposition, skepticism?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: Yes, there are absolutely conversations going on. There are conversations routinely.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: I was on the bipartisan bicameral delegation that went to
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 5: Denmark during the height of the Greenland crisis. We came
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 5: back and the first thing many of us did is
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: we went to our Republican colleagues. I think in that instance,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 5: as is the case in many instances, we do find
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 5: opposition to this president among our Republican colleagues, but either
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: a hesitation to push back publicly for fear of the
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: political ramifications or a hope that the situation will resolve
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: itself by the president's own actions. I mean, I think
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: they will often say to us, he'll stand down, he'll
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: pull back, it's rhetoric, it's bluster. But when you're talking
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: about war, when you're talking about a president as unhinged
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 5: and divorced from the reality of what's going on as
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: he is, a president who cannot handle things going well
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 5: and respond rationally, it's incredibly dangerous and irresponsible for any
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: Republican who does oppose this war to not meet that
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 5: belief with any kind of public action or even rhetoric.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: I will say, too, to your point, this is a
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: moment where I think we have to reinforce that if
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 5: you are a Republican voter and you are watching what's
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 5: going on and you don't like what you are seeing—
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 5: if you are a Republican voter who voted for this
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: president because you thought, well, the Democrats talked a lot
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 5: about democracy and we survived his first term and prices
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 5: were lower and you feel like he has broken either
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 5: one or both of those sort of promises that democracy
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 5: will be fine and costs would be lower. If you
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: feel like he's broken his promises, welcome to our coalition,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: welcome to our cause. You don't have to agree with
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 5: us on 100% of things, but join us. to stop
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 5: forever wars and to bring down costs.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk to you about the ways
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: in which you've been working with Republicans in the House.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: In December, the House passed that Marjorie Taylor Greene bill
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: that was her swan song, criminalizing certain kinds of medical
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: treatment for trans minors. The vote was along party lines,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: except you were part of an effort to get four
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Republicans to join you in voting no, which they did.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: One Republican who opposed the bill, Brian Fitzpatrick, said, The
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: same theory could be used to say that if parents
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: don't vaccinate their kids, they could be committing a crime.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: So the parent-child relationship, doctor-physician relationship, we have to always
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: presume that these are sacred. It feels like that argument
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: of just freedom, freedom between parents to make decisions about
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: their families, for doctors to be able to provide what
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: care they think is best, is our strongest argument. But
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: at times, it also seems like on the left, let's
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: say when the Supreme Court rules that parents have a
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: right to be notified if their kid socially transitions, or
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: if a law in Colorado providing conversion therapy potentially violates
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: the First Amendment. I think liberals, in part because they
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: don't trust this court, their first reaction is to go
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: to the outcome of that, which are policies we might
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: not necessarily agree with. But is there value in simply saying,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: when the court is doing these kinds of things, it's
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: actually standing up for a principle we believe in, even
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: if it's applied in a way where we don't like
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: the outcome?
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think in this moment with the stakes
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: as high as they are, not just for trans people,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 5: but in so many instances, um, One, we have to
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: recognize the way well-intended policies or rhetoric that we have
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 5: done in the past could be used against us in
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 5: the future. I think the last year and a half
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: have brought that possibility into stark relief for us. And
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 5: I think it's something that we have to be mindful
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: of moving forward.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: What's an example of that?
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, I do think that there is something to
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 5: be said for it's harder to say government shouldn't interfere
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: with with the healthcare decisions of a parent and their
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: child when there was a spate of efforts to ban
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 5: what is bad, abusive, quite frankly, healthcare in the form
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 5: of conversion therapy. That's being used as a precedent here.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 5: And I think that I'm not saying that I don't
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 5: think those bills or ideas are wrong, but I do
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: think we have to be cognizant of how the right
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 5: can co-opt precedent in order to do really harmful things
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: on a wide scale.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 6: And I think.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: We do have to keep the main thing, the main
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: thing in the fight for equality for LGBTQ people. I
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 5: think there was after marriage, there was sort of a
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: search for what's the what more can we do?
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: What more can we do? What more can we do?
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: And there was a lot of basic necessities that we
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 5: had not actually protected for portions of our community. including
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 5: the trans community. And I think that we are seeing
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: that sort of chasing of the next best idea on
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 5: gay rights maybe resulted in us taking our eye off
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: the ball for trans people to some degree. But I
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: also think that sometimes freedom means, sometimes democracy means that
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: people make choices that we don't like. Families make choices
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 5: that we don't like. And I think right now in
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 5: this moment, we have to be clear that the best
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: place for decisions to be made around the healthcare of
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 5: a child is between the parent, the child, and their provider.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: And that is not always going to result in parents
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 5: making the decisions that we would make for our own children.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 5: But it also means government doesn't get to come in
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 5: to those individual decisions and stop parents from making decisions
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 5: that we believe are in the best interest of their child.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: And so I do think that we have to be
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 5: firm in that conviction. And that means taking some of
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 5: the not so good with the good.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Would say that if you got some sort of like
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: a sort of right-wing activists and like really press them.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: I think they, there is a sincere belief that the
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: L that, that not even just on LGBT issues or
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: trans issues, but across the board that what liberals had
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: argued for was something about freedom and access, but actually
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: became rules that everybody had to live by or else.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 6: And again, And let me just be clear.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: Again, I'm not saying that conversion therapy bans are bad.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: I just I do think that we should be cognizant
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 5: of precedents that are established that can be used against
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 5: us when we are in power, just to be clear.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Right. No, of course.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: And by the way, like, you know, conversion therapy as
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: sort of free speech versus medical care that we are
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: allowed to regulate. They're like technical and important distinctions to
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: be made between sort of freedom of speech and what
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: medical what a medical provider can can can offer. Like
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: those are distinctions to be made.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: But just and there's a difference between using I mean,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: there were some FTC ideas that people were pushing in
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: the Biden administration or people were thinking about in the
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: Biden administration as it relates to conversion therapy that the
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 5: right is now trying to use around gender affirming care.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: So I mean, there's just there's also the way you
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 5: go about it and the way you do it. And
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: that also makes a difference in terms of precedent, too.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, like in the case of California, both the
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: right wing judges and the liberal justice judges seem to
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that parents have some rights, but children should be
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: protected from harm and from abuse. But the law in
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: California was written as if the Supreme Court didn't really
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: exist and certainly wasn't right wing. And I can't tell
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: if what we're talking about here is an effort just
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: to save some ground because we're under attack from right-wing judges?
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Or are we trying to assert a principle?
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 6: I think it's a principle.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think, look, there are strategies, tactics, policies
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 5: that I might have thought were great ideas 10 years ago.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 5: And over time, I've since evolved on or learned, well,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 5: it's a well-intended policy, but it could have it could
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 5: lay the precedent or the foundation for this kind of
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: policy that I don't like. And I think.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 6: That the.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 5: Politics of backlash that we're experiencing right now, I think,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 5: should sober all of us to that potential, to that risk.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: And it doesn't mean changing your positions all the time,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 5: it does mean, one, being more cognizant of that. And
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 5: I do think that that's a principle, right? I mean,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 5: I think there are a lot of things in a
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: liberal democratic society that some people on our side would
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 5: want to forbid. But if you forbid it in this context,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 5: it means that they can forbid it in that context.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 5: And I just think that there is a return to
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 5: an understanding and appreciation of freedom. And that means taking
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 5: the good with the bad that I think all of
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: us have learned some hard lessons on over the last
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 5: couple of years. But I think was an understandable and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 5: well-intended approach a decade ago that was in part a
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 5: byproduct of sort of perhaps an arrogance or a sense
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 5: of unending cultural momentum that we didn't have to grapple
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: with that messiness of liberal democracy and freedom, that we could,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 5: across different issues, sort of tamp down different approaches because
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 5: we didn't like them, when I think that that's, one,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 5: perhaps a violation of the principle of freedom, but two,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 5: I think just counterproductive in a modern digital society where
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 5: you can't suppress differing thought and approaches as much as
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: you may disagree with them and often seeking to suppress
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: them only makes them more attractive and only gives some
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 5: degree of credibility among people that maybe there's a truth
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 5: in them because you're trying to suppress it. And I
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: think all of us would do well on our side
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 5: to learn both of those lessons, both the practical and
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: the principled lesson of the last couple of years.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the Democratic Party and
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: what we are trying to do now to signal to
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: people in the midterms and beyond that we're not just
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: a party that opposes Trump, but we have a real
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: kind of mission around the kind of economy we want
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: to build. Specifically, there's been a series of proposals. I
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: talked to Senator Cory Booker last week about one that
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: he introduced, Senator Chris Van Hollen has another. Katie Porter
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: here in California has one that's about kind of just
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: basically raising the standard deduction, getting income tax off of
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: as many people's plates as possible because the economy is
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: so stacked against working people. And I'm wondering what your–
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like you have thoughts about that.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 5: I have no doubt that those proposals pull well, and
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 5: I have no doubt that there are people who would
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 5: benefit from– a change to the standard deduction or a
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 5: holistic change to the tax code. And I do think
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 5: that we should make our tax system fairer and more progressive.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: I think that as a matter of both principle and frankly, practicality,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 5: that we do better by creating solutions that actually solve
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 5: the source of the problem that families are facing. I
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 5: think out of principle, one, we should address the problem, right?
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 5: We should address the housing shortage and the cost of
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 5: housing that is a byproduct of that. We should make
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 5: sure that people have access to childcare that is capped
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 5: at $ 10.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 6: Or $ 15 a day.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 5: We should have a higher minimum wage in this country nationwide.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 5: We should have paid family and medical leave nationwide. And
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: I think that those are the right solutions, one, because
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 5: I think they change the structures of our economy that
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 5: even if we change.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 6: The tax code.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: The pre-existing inequities in our economic structures will persist and
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 5: will be so porous that they will still find ways
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 5: to create inequities even if you change the tax code.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 5: And so I think, one, you need to solve the
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 5: problem as a matter of principle. Two, as a matter
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 5: of principle, I do think that making sure that all
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 5: of us feel a sense of buy-in, that all of
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 5: us feel a sense of ownership in our society, in
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 5: the policies of government is a good thing. But then
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 5: from a practical standpoint, even if in the short term,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 5: the tax changes that people have been proposing pull really well,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 5: I just don't think people remember that two, three, four
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 5: years after, right? People don't remember I'm not saying we
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 5: shouldn't do a tax cut, but people don't remember who
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 5: created the standard deduction at $ 30, 000, right? They do remember
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 5: who created Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid, who created
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 5: the Affordable Care Act. When there's a tangible policy, a
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 5: program that people are interacting with, that's not just good
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 5: politics on the front end. I think it's better politics
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 5: in the long term as well, because people will see
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 5: our party as the party that's not just lowering costs,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 5: not just making the American dream more affordable and accessible
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 5: for them, they'll know when they access that $ 10 to.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 6: $ 15 child care.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 5: They'll know when they take paid family and medical leave.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 5: They'll know when they're able to buy into Medicare. That
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 5: individual action was made possible by Democrats.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: On the other side of this, we have Donald Trump.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: He said this last week, at the end of last week,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: that seemed like quite a.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Revelation here.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: The United States can't take care of daycare. That has
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 4: to be up to a state. We can't take care
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: of daycare. We're a big country. We have 50 states.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 4: We have all these other people. We're fighting wars. We
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: can't take care of daycare. You got to let a
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 4: state take care of daycare and they should pay for
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 4: it too. They should pay. They have to raise their taxes,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 4: but they should pay for it. And we could lower
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: our taxes a little bit to them to make up,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 4: but we, it's not possible for us to take care
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: of daycare. Medicaid, Medicare, all these individual things. They can
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: do it on a state basis. You can't do it
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 4: on a federal. We have to take care of one thing,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 4: military protection. We have to guard the country.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: So Trump just put out his 2027 budget. It has
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: a massive boost to military spending, 10% cuts to domestic
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: policies like public health and scientific research, housing education. He
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: also has proposed $ 377 million this year for a White
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: House renovation and $ 174 million for next year. I can't
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: think of worse politics than cutting social spending to fund
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: the war and do a gut reno. How do Democrats
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: make the most of this? And do Republicans understand how.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: Bad the politics of this is?
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 5: I mean, you'll have to ask them as to whether
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 5: they understand how bad the politics are. I mean, Donald Trump,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 5: it's no wonder that the White House deleted that video.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 5: When I saw it, I immediately, pushed it out. I mean,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 5: that should be part of our ads and our message
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 5: in the midterms. And he's just saying the quiet part
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 5: out loud. I mean, everyone knows from the policies of
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 5: the last year and a half that this was the
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 5: Republican agenda, that the Republican agenda was a massive increase
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 5: in spending for forever wars and massive tax breaks for
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump's wealthy donors. And everyone else has to pay
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 5: the price in cuts to healthcare or in the failure
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 5: of the federal government to address the very issues you
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 5: and I were just talking about, like childcare. I mean,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 5: there is always money, it seems, from Republicans to cut
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 5: taxes for the wealthiest and to invade other countries. And
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 5: yet they clutch their pearls and when a Democrat proposes
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 5: paid family medical leave or universal child care paid for,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 5: mind you, not even adding to the deficit by making
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 5: the tax system fair and increasing taxes on the wealthiest.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 5: So I think we not only should be elevating that message,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 5: but we also have to have a very clear agenda
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 5: that runs contrary to that.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 6: It's why I think whether it's.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 5: A $ 15 or $ 20 minimum wage nationwide, universal childcare, paid
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 5: family medical leave. I think that should be at the
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 5: heart of our agenda because I know how much it
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 5: meets the needs of my constituents. I know how popular
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 5: it was in Delaware when we passed many of those
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 5: policies during my time in the state Senate. And I
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 5: know how necessary it is for our nation to compete globally.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 6: I mean, there is a.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 5: Reason why every other industrialized nation has passed paid family
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 5: medical leave and provides meaningful support for families who are
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 5: trying to send their kid to childcare. It's because they
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 5: know it's not just compassionate policy, but competitive policy. We
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 5: have a 1950s care infrastructure for a 2026 workforce. And
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 5: if we are going to tap the potential and skills
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 5: of everyone, no matter their gender or family situation, we
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 5: need to have policies that that allow them to start
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 5: a family, to have kids, to fulfill their obligations to
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 5: their own health and to their family without having to
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 5: sacrifice their job or their income.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: It's a good place to leave it. Congresswoman Sarah McBride,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: thank you so much. And you were telling me before
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: we started that you're training in the breaststroke for the
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: 2028 Olympics.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. I'm... A little controversial, but I think it'll
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: be exciting.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 5: I want to be the face of trans participation in
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 5: sports because I know.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: You'll sink like a stone. Exactly.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 6: I always say, if you.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 5: Want to prove trans women don't have a competitive advantage
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 5: in sports, throw me in.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 6: But you know what I'm really focused my time on?
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: What are you focused on?
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 6: I'm focused on recruiting you for traders.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. I would... Look, I think.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: If you think that I perform poorly on Survivor, boy,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: Survivor with food, I could probably only do better.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think you'll be like a season four Dorinda,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 5: not a season three Dorinda.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 6: You'll make it about halfway.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 5: I tweeted at them and I said, you should pick
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 5: John Lovett for the next season of Traitors, celebrity or non-celebrity.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 6: They can pick.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: No, I see why. And I appreciate that. And I
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: appreciate that.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 6: So I'm leading that effort right now.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: And that means the world to me because you know what?
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: You build coalitions, you can get things done, you know,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: defy expectations. And that's why we love talking to you.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: That's our show for today. Thanks to Sarah McBride for
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: coming on. Dan and I will be back with a
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: new show on Friday. If you want to listen to
• 1:35:55
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• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: That helps boost this episode and everything we do here
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: at Cricket. Pod Save America is a Cricket Media production.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: Our producer is Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics.
• 1:36:21
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• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle
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• 1:36:30
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