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What Do Our Team Values Look Like in Action? · The Pause Before You Lead

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think about when I was in corporate, and it was definitely one of our values, and I remember I got a lower score or whatever they gave you.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought to myself, oh my God, that must be a mistake.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I hold myself in high integrity.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I do what I say I'm gonna do, I treat everyone equally fairly, I'm honest, I'm open, I play by the rules.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So here's all my definition of integrity.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: How could I I be out of integrity?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Pause Before You Lead.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Alicia Saint, and I'm Heather Haig.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Together, we've both led teams inside large organizations, and over the past decade, we've coached and partnered with hundreds of leaders and teams navigating complexity.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen, felt, heard, and supported leaders through the challenging and sometimes really messy parts of leadership.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And while a lot has changed, many of the patterns that quietly take leaders off track just keep showing up.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: We work with leaders who don't want to lose momentum, but who know that clearer thinking is what makes momentum sustainable.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is for leaders who are moving fast, leading teams, and making decisions under constant pressure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And leaders who know there's a better way to think, lead, and respond in those moments.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, we bring you real conversations drawn from our work with leaders and teams.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Where speed matters, stakes are high, and the quality of your thinking shapes everything.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So in each episode, we're going to pause just long enough to think more clearly, to see what's really going on, make better decisions, and build high-value teams.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're listening before the day takes over, on your way to work, or in the middle of a full day, this is your pause without losing momentum.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: So before we begin, take a breath and join us.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Heather Haig.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Alicia Saint.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: This week we're talking about what does that look like?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And thinking about values with teams.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Alicia, you and I have done a lot of work with various teams, and the values work is sometimes the deepest work.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, while it's incredibly meaningful, it can be challenging to say, what does that actually look like in action?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And as we're preparing to work with a team that we've done some work with previously, what I'm really noticing is that when a team changes, how clear is the what does that look like?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: It maybe comes into focus even more than an in-tack team who was all part of that original work.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So as I'm sharing that thinking with you, what's showing up for you as we start to dive into what does this actually look like in practice?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it just raised an interesting question for us to explore with our audience this week is teams change.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as, you know, in theory, once as soon as one team member leaves and a new one joins, we're it becomes a new team.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: The energy, the essence, vibrancy of that team changes.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so as we are preparing for this work with this team, we realize wow, um all this values work that we did that was so important, and we're stepping in, and there's new members of the team who weren't on this journey, who weren't there.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, yeah, I think it's really raised some interesting questions.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: The one that I really like is if we, and I I'm thinking now, if I was a leader, I'd actually like to try this experiment.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you had a new member on your team and you asked them 30 days in, what are you observing are the values of this team?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think are the values of this team?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't that be fascinating?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be so interesting to see.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like before, you know, may and maybe in the beginning and some of their onboarding material, you know, was written down somewhere.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be something that they actually know.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it'd be really interesting because as you mentioned, the work that we do, just trying to get the the values, words on a page can be really challenging.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then the real work is in the second step, which is, and what did what does that mean?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's just this really interesting thing that says values are so important because they're like the guide, guiding light.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as we step into this work with this team next week, it's like, huh, how much assumption is walking into that room and probably not everyone on the same page.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just listening to you talk about that r reminds me of some of the words that we hear commonly when it when it comes to core values.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And in particular, the word integrity.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I see it on every organization's core values, you know, wall or or printed document or website, wherever they post the core values.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's a really important value to have.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, what does integrity mean?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And what does it look like in action?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about uh integrity, Alicia, you and I talk about this a lot because what I believe is in integrity or out of integrity could be very different from what you perceive as in integrity when you're feeling in integrity or when you're feeling out of integrity.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how does a team design what that looks like in practice?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then to your point, so let we do the experiment.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Does a new team member observe integrity in action?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can they witness it and say, wow, this is a team operating in integrity?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it sort of ambiguous?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like we all just assume we know what it means.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we like the word, we've agreed to the word, we're putting a check mark beside it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just say yes, integrity is important because it matters to everyone.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Matter to you, you right all the round, everyone goes yes.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so it ends up on the page.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But can't nobody's gonna put up, no one's gonna put up their hand and go, no, don't like integrity.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: But that one's true.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can't I can't really see someone challenging that the way they might challenge some other words.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: But what the heck does it mean?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Can a team witness it in action or sometimes maybe arguably more important, identify what it doesn't look like so that you can address when someone or something is out of integrity?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So curious, what would you what's your definition of integrity?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in its simplest form, I feel like it's doing what you said you were gonna do.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And even as I say that out loud, I'm like, you know, is that is that other people's definition?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know I feel out of integrity if I'm struggling to meet a deadline.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So is it an integrity to send a note and say something like something's getting in the way, it's gonna be a little longer?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that an integrity, or is the fact that you said you were gonna do it and you're not meeting the timeline?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's something I struggle with actually internally, which maybe is what makes it hard for a team to decide what that looks like in action.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: What how does it show up for you?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think there's like layers to it, right?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think about when I was in corporate, and it was definitely one of our values, and I remember I got a lower score or whatever they gave you.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought to myself, oh my God, that must be a mistake.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I hold myself in high integrity, I do what I say I'm gonna do, I treat everyone equally fairly, I'm honest, I'm open, I play by the rules.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So here's all my definition of integrity.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: How could I, I be out of integrity?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was explained to me, well, I've I've noticed that you'll be in a meeting, you'll have a discussion or whatever, and then you'll have side discussions where you walked out of the room appearing to be in alignment with what the discussion was or the decision that was taken, and then you're having a side conversation where you're actually you're not fully supportive.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought to myself, well, first of all, yes, that is true.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because don't we all do that?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't say that, I shouldn't say everyone does that, but you know, the play along to get along as a connection, no, we very easily fall into that, you know, let's just play along to get along to keep the harmony.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I would do that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so is that being in integrity?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: That was so interesting, just what you surfaced there because the the self-assessment of I'm in integrity, I do I play by the rules, the things that you listed there, and then someone else observing something that they would define as not an integrity, which is you're having side conversations.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like my question or my like the curiosity gets piqued in this to say, did someone explain at the outset the metrics by which you'd be measured to evaluate your integrity?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like you and this leader perhaps saw things differently, and you might not have put that in the category of out of integrity.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how important it becomes when we're going to be evaluated on something like the word integrity to say this is what's in scope and this is what's out of scope.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: These are the behaviors we're looking for that we will evaluate ourselves and others on.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the things that will indicate um uh lower, and by the way, it's not you're in integrity or you're not in integrity, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like there's a sort of these very extremes of all or none thinking here.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, come back to your experiment for a moment because I think there's so much curiosity here.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Could a new member of the team witness that and define I see integrity as a core value, or I see, yeah, integrity is important, but we're not living into it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and just again, thinking about stepping into this work with this team, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things they've talked about is, you know, they want when when people walk out of the room, if there's a decision in the room that there's trust, could be another word, that when everyone walks out of this room, they still remain standing in that decision and are ready to support it and defend it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what they're noticing is that's not happening.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Would they, if you said to them, huh?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you're out of integrity?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because integrity is a really critical piece for this, for this team, to your point, you know, I think it just encourages the pause, which says, do we really know what it means when we say we're a team that operates with full integrity?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And have we talked about it?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Have we clarified?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm you just introduced a couple of layers of integrity too, right?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So this idea of there may be integrity at the organizational level.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: So uh it maintaining integrity representing the organization as a leader.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Then there's the integrity with others, and then there's integrity with self, right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's these multiple layers of integrity.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And in the absence of clarity around this, everyone's guessing.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem with guessing is that we might all guess differently.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so something that feels out of integrity for you, I might feel like I'm 100% in integrity because my definition includes these, these behaviors, and your definition includes other behaviors.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not necessarily to say that everyone uh fundamentally changes how they define integrity.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: But as a team or at the organization level, the characteristics and behaviors that measure integrity need to be clarified.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone needs to be in agreement that those are the those are the behaviors we're gonna observe.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the behaviors we're gonna correct.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Cause in the absence of that, gosh, I mean, I don't want to speculate, Alicia, but how did it feel when you said, wait, why is my integrity score like this?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then you got the feedback.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big, it was, it was big.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was one that I really that was a big piece of who I who I was and how I operated and how I defined myself.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got that, I was, yeah, it hit, it hit hard.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I was like, like I said, it must be a mistake.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like how, and then again, you know, you go quickly blaming the other person, going, Really?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: You think you're an integrity?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know what, I'm not so sure, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go into the whole blame game, but it hit hard.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's and I think anyone's core value, if they hold it, hold it as core value, it it definitely hits pretty hard if someone says, I don't see you in alignment with that, and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, back the back the bus up.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's that can't be.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And lo and behold, it was.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: If that leader at the beginning before your performance review had been clear about what the expectations were for integrity, would that have changed things for you?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because in my mind, that wasn't part of how I defined integrity, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, it was venting, right?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was like venting.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see that that was a big problem.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think it's really important for the leader because this leader cared about that.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I had other years where my integrity score was high.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: My behavior was the same.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's also too as a team and as a team leader, like really getting clear on who do we want to be?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: How do we want other people, other teams, others to witness us, to experience us.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think, you know, again, we've talked about this before, that becomes the hard work.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone, pretty much you can say everyone's gonna have a slightly different definition.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I mean, we're just choosing integrity as one example because it is such a common core value that's on so many walls in organizations.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like table stakes.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, everyone needs integrity.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I come back to the experiment you introduced at the beginning because you said, you know, maybe, maybe the leader gives that new team member the core values as soon as they arrive.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really like the playfulness of actually not having them visible anywhere and letting that new team member get immersed in the experience.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, whether it's it's 10 days or 30 days, you know, timing um is adjustable to actually ask that person, what what values do you see us operating in consistently?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: And to see if there's both surprises of values they didn't know that they were demonstrating and values that they aren't clearly demonstrating.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think you'd get insights on both sides, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: As coaches, when we come into teams, I almost wonder if maybe we want to adopt that a little bit too, like before we say what are your values to just observe the team in action and see if we can guess what they are.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: What what might we notice?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Notice and share.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you just touched on something for me, is um one of the bonuses or benefits of having team coaches, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like values that that, you know, it can get dicey.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm thinking about asking that new person, well, what are the values that you like I think I'd panic a little.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you mean values?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, because you want to just say all the nice things, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I see lots of teamwork and collaboration.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, is that the safe space to be able to actually say, well, you know what?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I saw that, but what I didn't see was a lot of inclusion.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: What I didn't see was a lot of um care.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's a really important conversation to have.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and just again coming back to, I guess I think we talked mentioned like psychological safety can be another core value, right?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think those things like trust, psychological safeties, um, integrity are all fundamentally critical, not only for employee engagement to increase and the goals of whether it's at a team level or organizational level to achieve that, but also I don't believe you can have creativity and innovation in the absence of, right?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't feel like people are in integrity, if you don't feel that you can trust people to support your perspectives, if you don't feel it's safe through psychological safety to challenge thinking, then you don't get some of the other things that are going to be on that wall, like creativity and innovation and the in the teamwork and collaboration that you were mentioning as well.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting because the temptation is everyone checks the box.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the challenge is can you witness it in action?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Can you assess its presence or its absence?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And the only way to do that is to know what we're talking about.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's us as a team get clear on that first before we start asking other people are we in integrity with our values or not?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think we should test it out with a new team that we're working with and and come back and share.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, could we witness their values in action?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: What did we um assess were the values and were we on track?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: That could be a curious experiment.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be curious, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for this, Alicia.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Encourage everyone to take a pause and think about what do you really mean by that?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: What do the values we have on the wall look like in action?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh don't forget, to pause.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 22:05
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• 22:08
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• 22:12
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• 22:18
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• 22:24
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• 22:27
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• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And notice what might change if you led from here.