Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mommy says 2-y-o Juelz Shoots Self in Head: NO WAY!

Transcript

Mommy says 2-y-o Juelz Shoots Self in Head: NO WAY! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A two year old little
0:15
Speaker 1: girl dead shot in her own home, apparently by a
0:22
Speaker 1: self inflicted gun wound. We'll see about that. I'm Nancy Grace.
0:28
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:31
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and series X one eleven. What
0:35
Speaker 1: happened to two year old? Jewels? Take a listen to
0:38
Speaker 1: our friends at k E N S five. We begin
0:41
Speaker 1: with breaking news A two year old girl shot in
0:44
Speaker 1: the head in East San Antonio about ten minutes ago.
0:46
Speaker 1: We got new information from police. I witness news reporter
0:49
Speaker 1: Matt Houston is there on the scene. This is on Dublin,
0:52
Speaker 1: not far from Rogers Middle School. Matt, what do we know? Sharon?
0:56
Speaker 1: First responders took that child to a local hospital soon
0:59
Speaker 1: after the shooting in critical condition. That tells us that
1:02
Speaker 1: the child is alive, but in very with very serious injuries,
1:06
Speaker 1: perhaps even life threatening. Police are still trying to figure
1:10
Speaker 1: out what happened. Here behind me, you can see some
1:12
Speaker 1: of their cars, though no flashing lights. We know that
1:15
Speaker 1: the mother called nine one one sometime after the shooting.
1:18
Speaker 1: Police do not yet know if the child shot herself
1:21
Speaker 1: or if someone shot her. Are no suspects right now.
1:24
Speaker 1: In fact, it's too early to know if anyone did
1:26
Speaker 1: anything wrong, but obviously another tragedy in a string of
1:31
Speaker 1: violent crimes involving children here in San Antonio in just
1:34
Speaker 1: the last six weeks. Again the child at last report
1:38
Speaker 1: in critical condition in the hospital after a gunshot wound
1:41
Speaker 1: to the head. A two year old girl. A two
1:44
Speaker 1: year old little girl raced to the hospital with a
1:46
Speaker 1: critical wound. With me an all star panel to make
1:49
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. David Lombardo, Founder
1:53
Speaker 1: Principal Safer US, a consulting group. You can find him
1:57
Speaker 1: at gun Testimony. John Dial, high profile lawyer, joining us
2:04
Speaker 1: out of Winter Park, Florida. Author of the method Proven
2:07
Speaker 1: Techniques for Winning jury trials. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists,
2:11
Speaker 1: joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold
2:15
Speaker 1: MD dot com. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant, Newhaven p D.
2:21
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprie joining us former forensic pathologists, medical examiner,
2:27
Speaker 1: detective and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But first
2:32
Speaker 1: to special guests. Amanda Henderson Assignment General Assignment reporter News
2:36
Speaker 1: for San Antonio and Fox San Antonio. Amanda, thank you
2:40
Speaker 1: for being with us. Explained to me about the area
2:43
Speaker 1: for two year old Jewels was shot inside our own home. Yes,
2:47
Speaker 1: who Again, we were one of the first crews who
2:49
Speaker 1: was on the scene that night in the southeast side
2:52
Speaker 1: of San Antonio. This is a very large city, so
2:55
Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of diversity in certain areas and
3:00
Speaker 1: the side is no exception to that. So once we
3:02
Speaker 1: got there, you know, there were several houses, neighbors were
3:04
Speaker 1: standing outside trying to figure out exactly what was going on.
3:09
Speaker 1: And so again it was at nighttime or there's a
3:12
Speaker 1: lot of houses there and a lot of people were
3:14
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, you know, what had happened at
3:17
Speaker 1: that point. Tell me about the neighborhood. So this was
3:20
Speaker 1: a free standing home, not an apartment. From what we
3:23
Speaker 1: could see it appeared to be. There were home fare
3:25
Speaker 1: also duplexes there, but not an apartment complex. Christ So
3:29
Speaker 1: you get there late at night. What time it was
3:32
Speaker 1: somewhere between nine thirty to ten pm when we got
3:36
Speaker 1: on scene, because I do remember we went live for
3:38
Speaker 1: our ten o'clock show. Interesting, so it's nine thirty to
3:42
Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night. This was during the school year.
3:45
Speaker 1: Now I know that Jeels was just two years old
3:49
Speaker 1: and wouldn't be in school but on a school night
3:53
Speaker 1: or weren't not. I don't know why a two year
3:55
Speaker 1: old little girl would be up and about instead of
3:58
Speaker 1: in her own crib or bed. So you get there
4:02
Speaker 1: and what if anything, did you learn about the wound
4:07
Speaker 1: to two year old little deals? So at the very beginning,
4:11
Speaker 1: there was not a lot of information. As with every
4:13
Speaker 1: case there, especially when there's a child who thought, there's
4:17
Speaker 1: a lot of investigation to figure out all of the
4:20
Speaker 1: facts and all of the details. But what we were
4:22
Speaker 1: told that knife with that jewels at the time, I
4:25
Speaker 1: need to cover it. We did not know her name,
4:28
Speaker 1: but we were told that just a two year old
4:30
Speaker 1: little girl had a gunshot mound to the head, and
4:33
Speaker 1: at that point she was in critical condition. Guys, take
4:36
Speaker 1: a listen to Henry ramus Ka n S five. Half
4:41
Speaker 1: of her brain is not working right now. I don't
4:45
Speaker 1: think it's reparable. The family wants someone held accountable. This
4:49
Speaker 1: is a baby that's fighting for their life, you know,
4:51
Speaker 1: and you're worried about your freedom, but about this baby.
4:54
Speaker 1: Herrand Also speaking to parents who have weapons inside the home,
4:58
Speaker 1: make sure it's not loaded. You know, make sure you
5:00
Speaker 1: haven't put up lucked, you know, because in a split second,
5:04
Speaker 1: everything can change. Tonight, I'm still waiting on a response
5:07
Speaker 1: with an update in this case though, something to note.
5:10
Speaker 1: The night of the shooting, officers say that they found
5:12
Speaker 1: a weapon outside the home, and the family tells me
5:16
Speaker 1: tonight that Jule's older sister, four years old, saw what happened.
5:20
Speaker 1: She's traumatized. They're going to get her help. The family
5:23
Speaker 1: just continues to ask for prayers tonight. Is it's not
5:26
Speaker 1: known when the little girl will get out of the hospital,
5:29
Speaker 1: not know when she will get out of the hospital.
5:31
Speaker 1: At that time, they were holding out hope that she
5:32
Speaker 1: would live. To doctor Michel du Pre, former medical examiner
5:35
Speaker 1: joining us, Dupre, thank you for being with us. I
5:38
Speaker 1: heard at the very beginning that Henry Ramo stated that
5:43
Speaker 1: half of her brain, this two year old, beautiful little girl,
5:47
Speaker 1: half of her brain was quote not working right now.
5:51
Speaker 1: What does that mean? And think that means that basically
5:55
Speaker 1: there's brain death. A bullet when it hits the brain,
5:58
Speaker 1: it's not just the bullet that causes the damage. It's
6:01
Speaker 1: something we call a temporary cavity. And what that means
6:04
Speaker 1: is it's like a pebble going into a lake. It's
6:08
Speaker 1: the pebble that causes damage, but it's also those ripples,
6:10
Speaker 1: and those ripples affect the neurons. So if half of
6:14
Speaker 1: her brain quote isn't working, and we also hear Remos
6:18
Speaker 1: state that I don't think it's reparable. Is it ever reparable?
6:24
Speaker 1: Most likely not know. A significant injury to the brain
6:27
Speaker 1: like that, it damages and destroys those neurons and they
6:30
Speaker 1: will not be reconnected. I know that this little girl
6:33
Speaker 1: had a docson named role and love to play with Roly,
6:39
Speaker 1: love to play in the backyard. They had a slide
6:41
Speaker 1: in the backyard, just two years old. At the time
6:46
Speaker 1: of her death, we are talking about jewels, baby jewels
6:52
Speaker 1: shot in the head. Now, I know, doctor Dupree, that
6:57
Speaker 1: you're saying she was brain dead, and I guess that
7:02
Speaker 1: that is vernacular, a street term. I'm sure you have
7:05
Speaker 1: a different term for it. But does that necessarily mean
7:09
Speaker 1: that she has to die from the injury? Is there
7:12
Speaker 1: a way to keep her alive and hope that she
7:15
Speaker 1: can get well? Not really means he wants it's we
7:20
Speaker 1: can keep the heart alive, but we really cannot keep
7:23
Speaker 1: the brain alive. And the heart typically stays alive a
7:26
Speaker 1: little bit longer because it has the ability to beat
7:31
Speaker 1: on its own. But once the brain becomes dead, that
7:34
Speaker 1: person is actually officially dead. So even though the heart
7:37
Speaker 1: still beating, if the brain is dead, the person is
7:39
Speaker 1: considered dead and it's a matter of taking them off
7:42
Speaker 1: the life support. Yes, that's correct. I want to speak
7:45
Speaker 1: to David Lombardo, founder Principle Safe for USA consulting group,
7:50
Speaker 1: and you can find him at gun Testimony dot com
7:54
Speaker 1: and on Target Radio AM five sixty. David, thank you
7:59
Speaker 1: for being with us. Can you give me the stats
8:02
Speaker 1: about children's deaths in homes where there is a gun.
8:09
Speaker 1: There's four hundred million guns in the United States, and
8:13
Speaker 1: while we do know that there are children who have
8:15
Speaker 1: been hurt with us, there's a majority of people appropriately
8:20
Speaker 1: store firearms and they keep them away from children. Obviously,
8:24
Speaker 1: this is a high poolfile piece where they did not happen.
8:27
Speaker 1: Straight out to Lisa Daddy, I former police lieutenant and
8:30
Speaker 1: now professor at University New Haven and Forensics Science and
8:35
Speaker 1: Criminal Investigations. Lisa, thank you for being with us. From
8:38
Speaker 1: what I can tell based on the most recent data,
8:41
Speaker 1: children and teams three one hundred and fifty people killed
8:46
Speaker 1: a year. That's, according to the CDC, more than cancer.
8:53
Speaker 1: That's a lot. That is a lot of child deaths
8:57
Speaker 1: from guns. Help me out. It is a lot of it,
9:01
Speaker 1: as we know, comes back to unsafe storage, gun owners
9:06
Speaker 1: not properly storing their firearms and just leaving them or
9:11
Speaker 1: children knowing where they are. Don't think that if you
9:15
Speaker 1: have your gun stored in a safe that your child
9:17
Speaker 1: does not know the code or the key to get
9:20
Speaker 1: into it. We've seen that happen in the past, and
9:25
Speaker 1: you know a lot of it falls back on whomever's
9:28
Speaker 1: in the home not properly storing those firearms. Now, we
9:31
Speaker 1: also know that part of that awful is going to
9:33
Speaker 1: come from being over someone's home and having that happen.
9:38
Speaker 1: Unfortunately being outside and they're being a drive by shooting
9:42
Speaker 1: or being a victim of gun violence in some other
9:45
Speaker 1: way other than improper storage of a firearm. Time stories
10:01
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. What happened to this little girl? You know,
10:07
Speaker 1: I'm very curious to John Dial, personal injury lawyer, high
10:12
Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Winter Park. I'm just thinking back
10:16
Speaker 1: on my twins at age two, they had really just
10:21
Speaker 1: started walking and scooting around. They were very premature, so
10:26
Speaker 1: they were slow in their physical development. They had just
10:30
Speaker 1: started scooting around and walking at eighteen months, and there's
10:35
Speaker 1: no way they could have picked up a gun and
10:39
Speaker 1: pointed it and shot themselves in the head at that age.
10:44
Speaker 1: I mean, I know children developed differently, but there's no
10:48
Speaker 1: way the twins could have done that at age two. Yeah,
10:50
Speaker 1: it's one of the questions. Even if the idea that
10:52
Speaker 1: they're picking up at a gun, I'm not sure if
10:54
Speaker 1: they could point a turn around or depending on the
10:57
Speaker 1: trigger even I'm a pressure to pull the dragger voluntarily.
11:02
Speaker 1: So that's that in and of itself, because of the
11:04
Speaker 1: age is very suspicious. Well apparently in our cut too,
11:08
Speaker 1: you will hear that Henry rainbows at Kan's five Agrees
11:11
Speaker 1: listen surrounding a family who is torn and in need
11:14
Speaker 1: of support. They're praying for two year old Jules Gonzalez
11:17
Speaker 1: and her loved ones, her father Julia. She's showing me
11:21
Speaker 1: she's strong and fighting, so we're gonna keep fighting for her.
11:23
Speaker 1: Last Friday, when officers arrived here on Dublin Street, they
11:26
Speaker 1: came across the two year old with a gunshot wound.
11:29
Speaker 1: The police preliminary report says the girl reportedly shot herself,
11:33
Speaker 1: and investigators say she was there with her mother and
11:35
Speaker 1: her mom's boyfriend at the home. Jules father and Anne
11:39
Speaker 1: don't believe the little girl could have done it. No,
11:41
Speaker 1: there's no way. The doctors is stuff like that. They said,
11:46
Speaker 1: we think cases a lot of times, but your daughter
11:50
Speaker 1: was too young. She's not strong enough to do that.
11:53
Speaker 1: There's no age. Jules is in the ICU and has
11:56
Speaker 1: a long road to recovery. To doctor Angela Arnold or now,
11:59
Speaker 1: it's like which is joining me out of Atlanta, Doctor Angie.
12:04
Speaker 1: That feeling, I will never forget it, the feeling when
12:08
Speaker 1: you're at the hospital and you're hoping and you're praying
12:12
Speaker 1: for a recovery and then it doesn't happen. Those hours
12:18
Speaker 1: are like pure hell. It's like a limbo. It doesn't
12:22
Speaker 1: seem like it's day or night outside. It just goes
12:25
Speaker 1: on and on and on. And that's what you're hearing
12:29
Speaker 1: the father going through at the hospital, well and certainly Nancy.
12:34
Speaker 1: During that time, everyone involved is in a state of shock,
12:39
Speaker 1: and everyone is also still maintaining hope because no one goes.
12:44
Speaker 1: No one in any of these situations goes in expecting
12:48
Speaker 1: that the person is going to die. There is always
12:51
Speaker 1: hope until the very last minute. Just as you are
12:54
Speaker 1: asking doctor Depre what kind of what kind of injury
12:57
Speaker 1: occurs to the brain when these kinds of things happen,
13:01
Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, Typically, you know, the regular public doesn't
13:07
Speaker 1: understand that because most people haven't worked in an emergency room,
13:10
Speaker 1: and they don't see the kind of damage that was
13:13
Speaker 1: done to this little girl or anyone after being shot
13:16
Speaker 1: in the head. It's it's massive damage that happens. So
13:19
Speaker 1: of course the family is out in the waiting room,
13:22
Speaker 1: hoping beyond all hope that the doctors can do something
13:25
Speaker 1: to save her little life, but they're in shot. Also. Now,
13:29
Speaker 1: I know that you're a psychiatrist, but you have to
13:32
Speaker 1: be a medical doctor and then specialize in psychiatry. Did
13:36
Speaker 1: you ever have to do tour at an emergency room? Oh? Sure,
13:40
Speaker 1: I've worked in the emergency room an awful lot. I
13:42
Speaker 1: did internal medicine before before I did psychiatry, and so
13:46
Speaker 1: I worked in the emergency room. I moonlighted in the
13:49
Speaker 1: emergency room, oh my goodness, and trauma emergency rooms, Nancy. So,
13:54
Speaker 1: doctor Angie, when they're saying that half of her brain
13:58
Speaker 1: was not working. What does that actually, I mean, what's
14:01
Speaker 1: her what's her face blown off? As to your old
14:04
Speaker 1: little girl, Probably the half of her brain wasn't there.
14:08
Speaker 1: And I've seen I've seen that in the trauma rooms
14:11
Speaker 1: where I've done. It's horrific, Nancy, It's absolutely horrific. And
14:16
Speaker 1: so they said, I'm sure they said that the family
14:19
Speaker 1: half of her brain isn't working, because you're not going
14:21
Speaker 1: to go out in the waiting room and tell the family, oh,
14:23
Speaker 1: my god, half of her brain is blown off. I mean, Nancy,
14:26
Speaker 1: I've been in the emergency room where there were a
14:30
Speaker 1: lot of farming accidents where I worked, and someone had
14:34
Speaker 1: their head mash and some sort of farming tool, okay,
14:40
Speaker 1: and the family still thought that man was going to live.
14:42
Speaker 1: But we were watching his brain ooze out of the
14:45
Speaker 1: back of his head. They thought he was going to live.
14:48
Speaker 1: So you can't. Yeah, you have to when you're in
14:51
Speaker 1: the emergency room, Nancy. You have to save people from
14:55
Speaker 1: from the reality of what's really going on in there
14:59
Speaker 1: with their loved one one who's been injured so horribly.
15:02
Speaker 1: And to you, Doctor Michelle Dupree, a former pathologists medical
15:06
Speaker 1: examiner and detective doctor Dupree. It's kind of like the
15:10
Speaker 1: family suspends their disbelief, like when you go into a movie,
15:15
Speaker 1: you get totally sucked in. You're not looking at what's
15:17
Speaker 1: happening around you, and everything is believable and possible. The
15:21
Speaker 1: family goes the emergency room and they really believe that
15:24
Speaker 1: this child can be saved. They're out there hoping, they're praying.
15:29
Speaker 1: They think the baby can be saved, but she's been
15:31
Speaker 1: shot in the head. Exactly, Nancy. I mean, you don't
15:34
Speaker 1: want to believe it, and they're in shocky what you
15:37
Speaker 1: say to them, they're not even going to remember or
15:40
Speaker 1: understand at that point in time. And it's important for
15:43
Speaker 1: us to recognize some folks are in shock like that
15:45
Speaker 1: because they don't remember and they don't want to believe it,
15:48
Speaker 1: and you have to find a gentle way to help
15:50
Speaker 1: them come to that realization. And you know Lisa Daddy,
15:53
Speaker 1: a former police lieutenant Haven and now professor Lisa. Another
15:59
Speaker 1: thing that as to that adds to the pain. I
16:02
Speaker 1: remember when I learned my fiance was had been killed,
16:07
Speaker 1: and I thought it must have been in a car crash.
16:10
Speaker 1: But then you have a whole other layer when I
16:13
Speaker 1: found out he was murdered. In this case, it's horrible
16:18
Speaker 1: enough for a two year old little girl to die,
16:22
Speaker 1: and then you've got the whole another layer that she
16:24
Speaker 1: was shot in the head with a gun and in
16:28
Speaker 1: her own home. You just can't fathom that. Right, It
16:32
Speaker 1: comes back to who would ever hurt a child? And
16:35
Speaker 1: unfortunately we know the answer to that, and more times
16:38
Speaker 1: than not, it just, you know, everybody in the community
16:43
Speaker 1: in the state was hoping that it was a true accident,
16:46
Speaker 1: but then it's like, well, how is it an accident
16:48
Speaker 1: with a two year old? You know, how does that happen? Guys,
16:51
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Sarah for Ganey at
16:54
Speaker 1: Kids five. The toddler is shot in the head earlier
16:57
Speaker 1: this month has died. Two year old Jules Gonzalez was
17:01
Speaker 1: rushed to the hospital on February eighteenth after being shot
17:04
Speaker 1: in the head, and according to police at the time,
17:06
Speaker 1: the implication was that she pulled the trigger after finding
17:10
Speaker 1: a gun in her home. Police are investigating the case
17:14
Speaker 1: and so far nor arrests now. The family did start
17:17
Speaker 1: a go fund Me page for her funeral expenses, saying
17:20
Speaker 1: she gained her angel wings on Saturday, she was able
17:24
Speaker 1: to become an organ donor. Little Jules was one month
17:27
Speaker 1: away from turning three to David Lombardo, founder and principals
17:31
Speaker 1: Safe for USA consulting group, anchor of the National Shooting
17:35
Speaker 1: Sports Foundation Shot Show, David, again, thank you for being
17:39
Speaker 1: with us. What can you tell me about trigger pull?
17:43
Speaker 1: On again? Like this? Sure? The firing that was in
17:46
Speaker 1: users at Block thirty five is say forty caliber, and
17:50
Speaker 1: Block is somewhat unique in the trigger pull. It's without
17:55
Speaker 1: getting two technical it's a single action, two stage trigger.
18:00
Speaker 1: You're talking about, how difficult would it Peter pull? The
18:04
Speaker 1: gun itself fully loaded, which one would presumer probably was,
18:10
Speaker 1: is about little over two pounds and the trigger pull
18:13
Speaker 1: itself is on the glock about five and a half pounds,
18:18
Speaker 1: which is not really a lot. David Lombardo, When you
18:21
Speaker 1: say five and a half pounds pull, did you explain
18:26
Speaker 1: to our non gun aficionados what you mean by that.
18:31
Speaker 1: I have compared it to a jury with juries like
18:34
Speaker 1: m I pick up a small can of Jiff peanut butter.
18:39
Speaker 1: I think jar versus the biggest one. Obviously one's heavier
18:44
Speaker 1: than the other. How do you use that imagery? To
18:49
Speaker 1: explain pull on a gun, Well, I think you sort
18:54
Speaker 1: of hit the nail on the head. A jar of
18:57
Speaker 1: peanut butter is probably a few pounds anyway. So there's
19:02
Speaker 1: a lot of things that are in that sort of
19:04
Speaker 1: weight category, and that would be one of them. It's
19:07
Speaker 1: literally when we say trigger pools five and a half pounds,
19:11
Speaker 1: it's the same thing as if you were lifting a
19:13
Speaker 1: five and a half pound weight with your finger. That
19:16
Speaker 1: is literally what it would be like. And that's not
19:18
Speaker 1: a lot. But when you're talking about a two year
19:21
Speaker 1: old who may only weigh twenty five pounds or thirty pounds,
19:26
Speaker 1: five and a half pounds may be substantially more difficult
19:31
Speaker 1: for her to pull. It's not like an adult pulling it.
19:33
Speaker 1: My daughter is fourteen and I still have to open
19:36
Speaker 1: bottle of water for her sometimes. Well you ask, I
19:41
Speaker 1: think you'll find that five and a half pound trigger pool.
19:45
Speaker 1: We train kids in the youth camp and obviously they're
19:49
Speaker 1: older than that, but it's not really a problem to
19:52
Speaker 1: pull that trigger. Five and a half pounds is not
19:55
Speaker 1: that much if you're holding the gun. Okay, I trust you.
19:59
Speaker 1: I believe you. Guys. Hikos into our cut five Lee
20:02
Speaker 1: Waldminnik Sat Julio Gonzalez saw his two year old daughter,
20:07
Speaker 1: Jules Gonzalez, for the last time at the hospital last night,
20:11
Speaker 1: and Julio tells me he wants answers about how his
20:14
Speaker 1: daughter was shot. According to San Antonio police, the gun
20:17
Speaker 1: shot was self inflicted, but Julio doesn't know how she
20:20
Speaker 1: would have gotten a gun has happened at a duplex
20:23
Speaker 1: on Dublin Avenue near Pickwell Drive on the city's southeast
20:26
Speaker 1: side on February eighteenth, just before eight pm that night.
20:31
Speaker 1: Police say Jules's mom and mom's boyfriend were home at
20:34
Speaker 1: the time of the shooting. The mom was fully cooperating,
20:37
Speaker 1: but the boyfriend left the home before the police got there.
20:40
Speaker 1: Jules was taken by EMS to University Hospital in critical condition.
20:44
Speaker 1: Julio tells me doctors did everything they could to save
20:48
Speaker 1: her over this past week. Now tonight, we know this
20:51
Speaker 1: investigation is still ongoing by police. No arrests have been
20:54
Speaker 1: made in connection with this shooting. But of course Amanda
20:58
Speaker 1: Henderson joining me so guests from News Forcing Antonio and
21:02
Speaker 1: Foxing Antonio. Amanda, I wouldn't be surprised if charges were
21:06
Speaker 1: not leveled against the mom or the boyfriend for having
21:10
Speaker 1: a gun in the home where the child could get
21:13
Speaker 1: to it. Do we know if the gun was stored
21:16
Speaker 1: anywhere or where the gun was typically kept? Do know
21:21
Speaker 1: based on a new evidence that have come to light
21:25
Speaker 1: that are eventually the mother who ended up buying the gun?
21:30
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there'd have been a lot of developments
21:32
Speaker 1: since to your old little tools first shop and tragically
21:37
Speaker 1: passed away. But right now we don't know if it
21:40
Speaker 1: was stored somewhere or if it was just not in
21:42
Speaker 1: the open. I want to circle back to where the
21:45
Speaker 1: gun should have been, John Deal, what do we know?
21:47
Speaker 1: Where should the gun have been? Well, the gun should
21:51
Speaker 1: have been obviously out of where the childhood reach it,
21:54
Speaker 1: should be unloaded, should be an safe or something else.
21:58
Speaker 1: Sounds like none of those sick place. So it's it's
22:02
Speaker 1: absolutely reckless. I'm the part of you know, the parents
22:06
Speaker 1: or whoever is in the room there with for this
22:08
Speaker 1: even to be accessible to the child. So when you
22:11
Speaker 1: should when he should have been planning play school or
22:16
Speaker 1: a play date, or taking the child to a swimming
22:19
Speaker 1: pool or a playground, they are now stuck planning a funeral.
22:25
Speaker 1: Take a list of our cut six our friends Sarah
22:28
Speaker 1: Duran kids are gathering. No father wants to host for
22:31
Speaker 1: their child, but for Julio Gonzales to the very best,
22:35
Speaker 1: it's the only way he can help bury his two
22:38
Speaker 1: year old daughter, Jewels, specifically going to her headstone, her
22:41
Speaker 1: funeral expenses a plate sale to pay for his daughter's
22:44
Speaker 1: burial services, creation of an organization, and her memory and
22:48
Speaker 1: counseling for his other daughter, Julia. He says the four
22:53
Speaker 1: year old saw what happened to her younger sister last month.
22:56
Speaker 1: On February eighteen, Jewels was found by San Antonio police
22:59
Speaker 1: with a and shot wound to the head. The preliminary
23:02
Speaker 1: report states the girl reportedly shot herself. She ended up
23:05
Speaker 1: dying more than a week after the incident. I just
23:08
Speaker 1: gotta stay strong and this is hard man. After the shooting,
23:13
Speaker 1: her father had a hard time believing Jules did it.
23:16
Speaker 1: His belief hasn't changed. My daughter didn't shoot herself. Investigators
23:20
Speaker 1: say her mother and the mom's boyfriend were home at
23:22
Speaker 1: the time. We followed up with police today and they
23:25
Speaker 1: said the investigation is ongoing. The medical examiner also told
23:29
Speaker 1: us the toddler's cause of death this pending. You know,
23:31
Speaker 1: I find that very interesting, you know. To you, Doctor
23:34
Speaker 1: Michelle Duprie, could you explain what is a trajectory path
23:39
Speaker 1: of a bullet? Yes, Nancy, that's basically the line of
23:45
Speaker 1: the line that the bullet follows as it hits the target.
23:49
Speaker 1: And we can tell so much by that. One of
23:52
Speaker 1: the things that we look at, one of the most
23:53
Speaker 1: important things we look at is that trajectory, and that
23:56
Speaker 1: helps us establish whether what we're hearing, who shot, or
24:00
Speaker 1: where they were standing, or that kind of thing. It
24:02
Speaker 1: helps us tell it that's true or not it. For instance,
24:04
Speaker 1: I'm a good way to show this to a jury
24:07
Speaker 1: is to get styrofoam, a styrofoam ball and then enter
24:14
Speaker 1: anything like an arrow, a piece of plastic, a drinking
24:18
Speaker 1: straw where the bullet goes in, and have it come
24:22
Speaker 1: out where the bullet would come out of the head
24:25
Speaker 1: or the body exactly. Trajectory path is the path a
24:29
Speaker 1: bullet or a weapon takes, typically bullet as it passes
24:35
Speaker 1: through the human body. For instance, if it was the
24:39
Speaker 1: head we're talking about, you could say the trajectory path
24:43
Speaker 1: was right to left, up to down, just above the
24:49
Speaker 1: right ear coming out of the lower jaw. This would
24:52
Speaker 1: suggest the gun was above the eye going down, which
24:58
Speaker 1: typically would not be a suicide. It's hard to get
25:03
Speaker 1: a damn word trajectory on a suicide. It's very significant
25:08
Speaker 1: what the trajectory path shows. Then there is a sudden
25:14
Speaker 1: twist in the case. Take a listen to our cut nine,
25:17
Speaker 1: our friends and needs for tonight, all eyes are on
25:19
Speaker 1: the death of a San Antonio toddler. A new twist
25:22
Speaker 1: shows two year old Jules Gonzales did not shoot herself
25:25
Speaker 1: as we were initially told. On Friday, her mother, thirty
25:28
Speaker 1: five year old Jessica Kndu, was arrested and charged with
25:31
Speaker 1: endangering a child in connection with Jules's death. In Condu's affidavit,
25:36
Speaker 1: it says the toddler's autopsy revealed she could not have
25:40
Speaker 1: shown herself due to the gunshot being from a distance
25:43
Speaker 1: and not close proximity. Even though this was determined one
25:46
Speaker 1: day after Jules's death, we just learned of this new information,
25:50
Speaker 1: so we went right to SAPD to find out why
25:53
Speaker 1: they tell us quote. Initially, it was reported to police
25:56
Speaker 1: that the child shot herself. Through the course of the investigation,
26:00
Speaker 1: investigators gathered additional evidence, including the medical examiner's report, not
26:05
Speaker 1: determined the child had not shot herself with enough probable cause,
26:09
Speaker 1: they were able to issue a warrant for child endangerment.
26:12
Speaker 1: Child endangerment. So if the child didn't shoot herself and
26:16
Speaker 1: the only people in the home are the mother and
26:18
Speaker 1: the boyfriend, who I might remind everyone picked up and
26:22
Speaker 1: left before EMPs can even get there to get jewels,
26:26
Speaker 1: then it had to be one of those two. And
26:28
Speaker 1: that's all shown from the trajectory path alone. That's like
26:34
Speaker 1: someone shooting themselves in the back and someone being shot
26:39
Speaker 1: in the back and then claiming it was suicide. Impossible,
26:43
Speaker 1: can't happen. And here this trajectory path shows Amanda Henderson
26:48
Speaker 1: joining us from news for and Fox San Antonio that
26:52
Speaker 1: this little girl did not shoot herself. What can you
26:56
Speaker 1: tell me about the findings of the autopsy, Amanda Henderson. So,
27:00
Speaker 1: when we actually got to the Medical Examiner's office last
27:03
Speaker 1: week when all this all came out, they said the
27:05
Speaker 1: chase is still open. We actually found out about the
27:07
Speaker 1: autopsy through the assid David, through Camp Choose out of David.
27:12
Speaker 1: She was arrested previous Friday, but not the one that
27:14
Speaker 1: just passed, but the one prior to that. But choose charger.
27:18
Speaker 1: As you just heard with child Dangervid and her boyfriend
27:21
Speaker 1: a couple months prior had been arrested on criminal charges
27:25
Speaker 1: related to allegations that a gund that was used to
27:29
Speaker 1: kill the little girls. But that is the extense of
27:31
Speaker 1: the charges right now. Okay, hold on, what did you
27:33
Speaker 1: say the boyfriend? What was the boyfriend's charge? Yes, so
27:36
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Joshua Ramirez, he was charged with criminal charges
27:41
Speaker 1: related to allegations that a gun he possessed was used
27:44
Speaker 1: to kill the little girl. So I'm gathering Amanda Henderson
27:48
Speaker 1: is the boyfriend's gun, but the boyfriend is not charged
27:52
Speaker 1: with sheeting the little girl right as of now, that's correct.
27:55
Speaker 1: So let me understand this John Deal, high profile lawyer
27:59
Speaker 1: joining me out of winter Park. John Deal, You've got
28:03
Speaker 1: two adults in the home, one being the mother, the
28:06
Speaker 1: person you expect to protect you the most, now charged
28:10
Speaker 1: in the shooting depth of her child. Now I'm hearing
28:15
Speaker 1: an endangerment charge, but we know the child didn't shoot herself.
28:22
Speaker 1: Deal the endangerment charge obviously, just the gun even going off,
28:27
Speaker 1: which it clearly did and being in the house would
28:30
Speaker 1: would be enough for child endangerment. The issue becomes if
28:33
Speaker 1: it's a homicide, it goes back to the trajectory issue
28:37
Speaker 1: that you were talking about. If it's from further away
28:41
Speaker 1: on a straighter path, that would indicate that if it's
28:45
Speaker 1: from down to up, then they could argue, I was
28:47
Speaker 1: she accidentally dropped it potentially, But I would I would
28:51
Speaker 1: think the actual trajectory and the actual distance away is
28:57
Speaker 1: what the police if to continue to look at, because
28:59
Speaker 1: I believe this isn't the extend the charges on this
29:01
Speaker 1: one man, I hope not. Guys speaking of the distance,
29:05
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut eight our friens at
29:07
Speaker 1: Kin's five new details. Tonight, a San Antonio woman arrested
29:10
Speaker 1: after her two year old daughter died from a gun shot.
29:14
Speaker 1: Jessica Guntu is charged with endangering a child. Police say
29:18
Speaker 1: Gantu reported that her child, Jules Gonzalez, shot herself in February.
29:22
Speaker 1: The two year old died at the hospital days later,
29:25
Speaker 1: but now the medical examiner says the child could not
29:28
Speaker 1: have shot herself. The gun was shot from a distance
29:31
Speaker 1: and not close proximity, according to police wreckers. Kantu says
29:36
Speaker 1: the gun belonged to her boyfriend, Joshua Ramidez. Police say
29:40
Speaker 1: he fled the scene before officers arrived. Prime Stories with
29:57
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Okay, explain to me, Lisa, Daddy, O, how
30:05
Speaker 1: we know this little girl was not shot at close range? Oh,
30:11
Speaker 1: you're gonna look at the evidence, Nancy. You're gonna look
30:14
Speaker 1: at the autopsy, the injuries, possibly the clothing of the
30:20
Speaker 1: child's that she was wearing, the betting her hands, and
30:24
Speaker 1: you're looking for things such as gunshot residue. You're looking
30:29
Speaker 1: whether or not there's what we call blowback. If there's
30:33
Speaker 1: a close contact wound, parts of tissue, bone, blood is
30:40
Speaker 1: going to blow back onto the hand that was used.
30:43
Speaker 1: It's going to blow back onto an into the firearm,
30:46
Speaker 1: the barrel of the firearm. And you're gonna be looking
30:48
Speaker 1: at all that type of evidence to determine whether or
30:51
Speaker 1: not this was actually a suicide, an accidental shooting, or
30:57
Speaker 1: a homicide. To David Lombardo joining me from say for
31:00
Speaker 1: USA Consulting Group, David, it's my understanding to determine if
31:04
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound a GSW is close range, first you
31:09
Speaker 1: would look for stippling on the skin. In other words,
31:12
Speaker 1: was it a contact wound? If the gun is touching
31:14
Speaker 1: the skin, there will be a burning effect around this
31:18
Speaker 1: on the skin around the barrel, from the heat the
31:22
Speaker 1: shot and from the gun. You would look for gunshot
31:25
Speaker 1: residue on the victim's hand. Gunshot residue typically does not
31:29
Speaker 1: extend past thirty six inches. So if there is not
31:34
Speaker 1: gunshot residue on the victim's hand, you would assume and
31:38
Speaker 1: blowback the way Lisa Daddy had just explained, you would
31:41
Speaker 1: assume that the victim did not accidentally or intentionally shoot themselves. Now,
31:48
Speaker 1: what else should we look for to David Lombardo, Well,
31:53
Speaker 1: as your gunshot residue can be as far as five feet.
31:57
Speaker 1: But you're right, the temperature of a shot averages in
32:02
Speaker 1: the thousands of degrees, So you're going to look, they'll
32:05
Speaker 1: be burning. If the closer it is, the more it
32:08
Speaker 1: would deform the skin from the burn. The residue itself
32:13
Speaker 1: is made up of copper and brass and nickel, all
32:16
Speaker 1: these medals that vaporize when you fire the gun, and
32:19
Speaker 1: so they literally get sprayed. The further away the muzzle
32:23
Speaker 1: of the gun, the wire, the diameter that you would
32:27
Speaker 1: see on the face. So what we can tell is this,
32:32
Speaker 1: we can't say for sure if the child or someone
32:37
Speaker 1: committed suicide by holding a gun up to themselves, because
32:40
Speaker 1: anyone could hold it up close. But we can say
32:43
Speaker 1: that they couldn't have done it if you don't have residue,
32:47
Speaker 1: because if you have residue, it could be as far
32:50
Speaker 1: as five feet away. That means nobody could reach that far. Yeah.
32:56
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut seven, our friend Henry
32:59
Speaker 1: Ramos kids five. This Affidavid right here reveals when the
33:03
Speaker 1: suspects showed up here and agree to talk to police,
33:06
Speaker 1: though we've learned tonight and investigators say that he lied
33:09
Speaker 1: to them. We're talking about Christopher Joshua Ramidez. Investigators say
33:13
Speaker 1: that it was his gun that killed Juels, and during
33:16
Speaker 1: the investigation, police say that the little girl shot herself.
33:20
Speaker 1: According to the Affidavid, officers found a duffel back with
33:23
Speaker 1: a gun inside, and Jule's mother says her boyfriend had
33:26
Speaker 1: packed it at their home. How does the weapon end
33:31
Speaker 1: up in a duffel bag because we remember a MTS
33:36
Speaker 1: and cops kid, they're almost immediately and the gun's already
33:40
Speaker 1: in a duffel bag. I mean that tells me a lot,
33:44
Speaker 1: John deal if it's an accidental shooting, Why would you
33:47
Speaker 1: put the gun in a duffel bag before cops could
33:50
Speaker 1: even get there. Exactly the consciousness of guilt type of thing. Right,
33:53
Speaker 1: if it's an accidental shooting, that's not how loving people react.
33:59
Speaker 1: Let's put the gun in him bag. And you know
34:01
Speaker 1: what that reminds me of. It reminds me of taught
34:03
Speaker 1: mom Casey Anthony and one of her many stories about
34:08
Speaker 1: what happened to Kelly, two year old Kelly. There were
34:11
Speaker 1: a lot of different stories, like the fake babysitter took her,
34:15
Speaker 1: she was at the beach, yeah, Ny, the nanny was
34:18
Speaker 1: my client. Oh yeah, that's yeah, yeah, How could I
34:22
Speaker 1: forget that? And then there was the my father, George
34:26
Speaker 1: Anthony fished her out of the swimming pool where she
34:28
Speaker 1: accidentally drowned, and then he put her in a trash
34:31
Speaker 1: bag and threw her body in the woods. No, George
34:35
Speaker 1: Anthony would never have fished this baby out of the pool,
34:39
Speaker 1: this baby he loved more than anything in the world,
34:42
Speaker 1: put her in a trash bag and throw her in
34:43
Speaker 1: the woods. No more than it's an accidental shooting, nothing
34:48
Speaker 1: nefarious has taken place. And you think to hide the
34:52
Speaker 1: gun and a duffle bag before cops can get there. Now,
34:56
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut ten Amanda Henderson's four
35:00
Speaker 1: there's arrest. Alfa David also says she and her four
35:02
Speaker 1: year old daughter were in another room when she heard
35:05
Speaker 1: a loud pump. Child abuse prevention advocate Carrie will Coxon
35:09
Speaker 1: says the adults there that night both gone through and
35:12
Speaker 1: her boyfriend Joshua Ramirez, had a responsibility to protect jewels.
35:16
Speaker 1: A caregiver has a responsibility, whether you're committing the actual
35:22
Speaker 1: act or you're aware of what's happening, you have a
35:25
Speaker 1: duty to protect. You have a duty to act. This
35:28
Speaker 1: was preventable. That's a part of this that is so tragic.
35:34
Speaker 1: And with me special guests Amanda Henderson from News for
35:37
Speaker 1: sant Antonio and Fox sant Antonio. Amanda, let me understand.
35:42
Speaker 1: So the trajectory path on the gun shot on this
35:46
Speaker 1: little girl makes it clear that this was not a suicide,
35:52
Speaker 1: an axidental shooting where the little girl shot herself. He
35:55
Speaker 1: got a five and a half pull trigger pool on
35:59
Speaker 1: the gun, and before the costs can get there, somebody
36:02
Speaker 1: hides the boyfriend's gun, the weapon and a duffel bag.
36:09
Speaker 1: Is that right? That's definitely what we just heard. Again,
36:12
Speaker 1: we don't know anything before that situation, if the gun
36:16
Speaker 1: had been properly stored or if it was just out
36:18
Speaker 1: in the open. But again, the night that we were there,
36:21
Speaker 1: there were so few details that were coming out. All
36:24
Speaker 1: we knew at the time was that the little girl
36:27
Speaker 1: had a gunshot wound. And then you know about about
36:31
Speaker 1: a week later or so when you know she tragically
36:34
Speaker 1: passed from that gunshot wound. And then just this past
36:37
Speaker 1: week is when we learned that, in fact, the Medical
36:41
Speaker 1: Examiner's office concluded one day after her dusk that she
36:44
Speaker 1: could not have shot herself. The trajectory past shows that
36:47
Speaker 1: she couldn't have shot herself, and the gunshot was from
36:51
Speaker 1: a distance, which means this little girl's arm is what
36:55
Speaker 1: three f two feet long. There's no way that she
36:58
Speaker 1: could have shot herself and into m a distance unless
37:01
Speaker 1: she jerry rigged it with a rope and pulled the rope.
37:04
Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, that's total bs. Somebody in at home
37:08
Speaker 1: shot this little girl. Amanda Henderson, the boyfriend, what is
37:14
Speaker 1: he charged with? So about a month or so after
37:18
Speaker 1: the original shooting took place, however, the gunshot came out.
37:22
Speaker 1: He was actually picked up on criminal charges that were
37:25
Speaker 1: related to allegation that a gun he invested with you
37:28
Speaker 1: to kill Jewels. So that's his current charge is that
37:30
Speaker 1: the gun used to kill two year old Jewels was
37:34
Speaker 1: possessed by him. Correct. The mother is currently charged, Jessica
37:38
Speaker 1: Knto with what she is charged with a child endangerment
37:43
Speaker 1: or to be formal in endangering a child in the
37:46
Speaker 1: dust of Jewels. Okay, this is very probative to me.
37:52
Speaker 1: The mother, John Deal, the mother is the one charged
37:57
Speaker 1: with endangerment, ending and death of a child, not the
38:02
Speaker 1: boyfriend that left the saying the mother the mother, and
38:07
Speaker 1: from that I am deducing the mother shot her own
38:11
Speaker 1: two year old child at a distance. I think it
38:14
Speaker 1: would tend to show that. I mean, it's if it's
38:17
Speaker 1: one of the two of them, if it's somebody pulled
38:20
Speaker 1: the actual trigger, it's one of the two of them.
38:22
Speaker 1: The charges against her endangerment causing the death, and it
38:27
Speaker 1: seems like him possession of a firearm, probably by a
38:30
Speaker 1: convicted salent possibly, But the question is going to be
38:33
Speaker 1: now between the two of them, which version of events
38:37
Speaker 1: comes out in the criminal plasa to doctor Angela Arnold
38:40
Speaker 1: psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta. Number one. We now
38:45
Speaker 1: understand the four year old sister, the four year old
38:50
Speaker 1: sister witnessed the death of her two year old little
38:56
Speaker 1: sister number one, and we also are learning that Jules
39:00
Speaker 1: was autistic and had not learned to talk yet. How
39:05
Speaker 1: do you factor that into this scenario, doctor, Well, first
39:09
Speaker 1: of all, the child that witnessed us. First of all,
39:12
Speaker 1: it appears to me that she could be a witness,
39:14
Speaker 1: couldn't she couldn't she tell people who shot the kid? Yes?
39:18
Speaker 1: But second of all, the trauma that that little girl
39:22
Speaker 1: has gone through, because I imagine if her sister is autistic,
39:26
Speaker 1: which is which is what has come out of this,
39:28
Speaker 1: and she was nonverbal at this time, her little four
39:32
Speaker 1: year old sister was probably very protective of her and
39:35
Speaker 1: probably spoke for her often, okay, and she and they
39:39
Speaker 1: probably had a little language between them that they used.
39:43
Speaker 1: But the trauma that the four year old is going
39:46
Speaker 1: to have to bear and live with in her four
39:48
Speaker 1: year old mind, there are things that are going to
39:51
Speaker 1: stop in her development because of what she had seen
39:54
Speaker 1: in this Well I know this somebody is lying because
39:58
Speaker 1: now we're learning the four year old saw the shooting
40:01
Speaker 1: of her two year old sister, and the mother says
40:05
Speaker 1: that she and the four year old were in another
40:07
Speaker 1: room when they both heard a quote loud pop and
40:12
Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's not the four year old lying.
40:16
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story Sunning Off,
40:22
Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,