Latest / Beautifully Complex / 361: Getting on the Same Page with Your Co-Parent, with Martina Nova, MCP, RCC

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361: Getting on the Same Page with Your Co-Parent, with Martina Nova, MCP, RCC · Beautifully Complex

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: The way that they're responding or the conflict or having
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: with our adult children still predates back to they have
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: expectations of their kids or things that trigger them about
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: what their kids are doing because they had those similar
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: experiences with their parents and they think, well, my parents
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: didn't really do this for me, so I don't think
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I should do this for my kid. And what we're
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: talking about here might be things like emotional validation.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully Complex dot life. Welcome back everyone to
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Beautifully Complex. So glad that you're joining us and listening
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: to this episode. Today I have with me Martina Nova,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about co parenting and the
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: challenges that neurodivergent parents face, whether you're co parenting together
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: in the same household, or you're co parenting separately. There
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: are challenges with different parenting approaches, and so we're gonna
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: explore why that happens and also what you can do
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: to help to have some improvement in that area. Martina,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: will you start though, by letting everybody know who you
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: are and what you do, and then we'll jump in,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: of course.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So my name is Martina and I'm a registered clinical
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: counselor in Vancouver, BC. I'm also a mom of two
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and I'm a co parent and I recently wrote a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: book called Same Page Parenting, and it's a book on
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: conversation starters. There's over thirty six different topics on different
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: types of commerce sations that we could be having before
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: we even have kids and all throughout our kids development
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: with one another, so that it's not about identical parenting
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: or doing things exactly the same way, but around different
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: stages of when we have kids. It's more around understanding
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: where do we come from, What are we carrying into
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the relationship, what are we carrying into parenting our own experiences,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: What kinds of conversations would be helpful to have other
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: than the typical how many diapers should we buy? Or
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: what kind of food do we want to start the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: kids on, but more mental health based, real life, rich conversations.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, I'm so super excited to explore this because
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: so many coaching clients and my own family, we really struggled,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: my husband and I for a long time to get
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: on the same page with parenting, and all of the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: neurodivergence was layering on just more difficulty there, and it
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: was a really long process. It was really difficult to
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: parent after parent after parent who has a similar struggle.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: So can we sort of define what you mean first
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: when we talk about co parenting.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, so I call myself a co parent as well
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: because my husband and I are separated, so we live
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in two separate homes, but we still parent our kids.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: We try to understand where each other's coming from. We
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: consult with one another with parenting techniques and what worked
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: for you, it didn't work for you. So I'm a
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: co parent into separate houses. And so if you're parenting
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: in the same house, or if you're co parenting in
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: two separate homes, that's the way that I'm using the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: terminology here, gotcha.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I want to explore first, like what drives
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: these differences and the way that's that we view parenting
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: and the ways that we go about it. Is there
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: something I imagine our own childhood and some other things
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: are playing into that.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, that's such a great question. So one of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the ways that I've set up the book that I've written,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: same page parenting is exactly like what you're saying. There's
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: a section for each topic that says, before you even
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: have kids, here's some of the conversation starters you should
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: have based on this particular topic. And a lot of
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: what this gets at is your own childhood. So how
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: you were parented shapes what feels right for you right
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: now as a parent. So I'll give you a few examples.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Right So, maybe if you grew up around chaos, you
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: might crave structure and control in your own house now,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Or if you grew up with a lot of control,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: you might value flexibility and autonomy. Or if your emotions
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: weren't validated by your parents, big feelings can feel overwhelming
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: or too much, or we now try to overvalidate our
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: kids and not have our kids stress out or feel
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: any distress. Huge part of it is our own childhood,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: but there's also things like nervous system differences. There's core values.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: There's personality and temperament, gender roles, social conditioning, culture understanding, stress,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: burnout capacity. There's a lot of different things that will
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: affect how and what we bring to our own parenting.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard the term reparenting a lot lately and
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: trying to work through those things from our past, our childhood,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the way is that we are raised, and to try
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: not to bring them into our parenting right, to not
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: have them negatively impact our parenting. Do you find that
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: that can be a really helpful avenue.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's so tricky because I work with individuals
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and parents and couples who are in the trenches of
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: newborn life and some of this is just coming up now,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: But I've also worked with people who have adult children,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: and in the way that they're responding or the conflict
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: or having with their adult children still predates back to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: they have expectations of their kids or things that trigger
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: them about what their kids are doing because they had
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: those similar experiences with their parents, and they think, well,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: my parents didn't really do this for me, so I
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: don't think I should do this for my kid. And
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here might be things like emotional
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: validation or giving our children space to make their own
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: choices in gender expression, or make their own choices in
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: values based living or dietary preferences. Like, sometimes it can
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: seem like it's so small, but if it comes from
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: our own upbringing or there was a lot of rules,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: or there was a lot of expectation, and there's now
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: triggers associated with it, then no matter what stage of
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: parenting we're at, it's going to creep up on us
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: until we become aware of it and we can notice
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: it happening, and then we can choose to act differently.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: But if we're not having these conversations and we're not aware,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: we're kind of just on autopilot.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not something we think about when we're younger
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: or when we're choosing a partner, But the ways that
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: we were each raised is hugely influential. Like I really
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: didn't realize the magnitude of that my husband was raised
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: in an abusive household in a lot of ways, and
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: so like it didn't even really have a good example
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of love on a daily basis, right, Like what that
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: family like a family unit that really functions well and
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: shows each other how they care about each other was
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: not an example that he grew up with, and so
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: there's so much there. You know, he obviously doesn't want
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: that same environment now and for his own kids, but
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: it still really impacts the ways that he views situations,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: the ways that he interacts with people, and it's been
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: a real journey for him to I guess right, parent right,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: to figure out where some of that comes from and
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: how to work through those feelings. Absolutely, can we talk
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: a little bit about this just came up? I think
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: in like maybe when I was scrolling through Instagram last week,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: but I saw someone talking about how we don't share
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the mental and emotional responsibility of parenting equally a lot
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: of times, and I think I commented, like, yes, yes, yes,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: because this is so true that there's typically one person,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: one partner, who takes on especially when we're talking about
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: kids who are NERD a vergent. We have more therapies,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: we have doctor's appointments, we have school meetings, all of
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: the things, and it tends to be that there's one
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: parent who kind of takes on that role, heading that role,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and it feels like it's not fair, right, it feels
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: like it's a burden. It's not a real shared responsibility.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Can you talk about that a little more, what that
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: looks and feels like, and then maybe we can talk
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: about how to shift that dynamic.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Of course, of course, what you're talking about is it's
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a blend of a few things. Absolutely, it's the invisible
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: mental load. It's a mix of patterns and systems and
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: capacity and gender expectations. And it's kind of like someone
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: becomes that default parent. And it's not by agreement. We're
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: not going to sit down and say this is what's
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: going to happen, but by repetition. So maybe one parent
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: starts handling the appointments, this school communication, the routines, they
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: learn the systems, they learn the language, learn the child's cues,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and over time they become the one that everything funnels through.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: And we might hear things like, oh, you're just better
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: at it, but that often just means well, you've been
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: carrying it longer and you've taken time to notice. And
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's because depending on who the parent is, a
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: lot of the times in heteronormative relationships, it does become
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: the mother. And also because evolutionarily mums are the responsibility
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: of mums within a family unit is the one who
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: does soothe and emotionally notice and take the temperature of
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: their space and pace, And with neurodiverrgent kids have to
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: be even more on guard, and so that kind of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: turns into this power dynamics. That parent also is the
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: one who does the research, talk to the professionals, learns
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the strategies, and maybe over time that imbalance becomes that
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: the other person feels behind or unsure or like they're
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: going to do it wrong, so they step back. But
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: that widens that gap further. And it's not that they
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: don't care. There's a lack of confidence, which turns into avoidance,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: which adds more load on the other person. So there's
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: a lot that plays into that kind of emotional labor
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: and physical labor that one partner takes on much more
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: than the other.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And when one partner is going to the appointments, doing
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the research, learning more about what would help in parenting,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: sometimes it comes across the other partners telling them how
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: to parent, which doesn't feel good and can tend to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: really cause a lot more problems. So what can we do,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: What conversations can we have with each other to try
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to share those invisible loads a little bit more evenly.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: There's a few. I based a lot of my chapter
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: on the invisible mental load in my book on some
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: really great resources that are already out there, like fair
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Play by Evrotsky talking about that exact piece of we
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: are not. In my book, I give specific examples of
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: conversation starters. So for example, we're not just communicating more,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: but there's very specific shifts. So we're number one, making
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: that invisible visible. We're mapping it out. So we might say,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: what are you tracking mentally every day? What decisions are
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: you making alone? Or how do we shift from helping
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to ownership? It helps keep one person in charge. So
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: ownership looks like, Okay, which piece of this are you
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: going to handle fully on your own? So here's what
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I have that I do. Which one do you want
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to take on? Okay, you handle school communication fully. You're
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: in charge of bedtime routine. We're not assisting, we're owning.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: We're making it that this is something that I am
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: fully taking on. Also, another big part of it is
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: we're wanting to close knowledge gap. So we might ask
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the primary parent might ask the non primary parent in
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: this case, what is it that you feel behind on?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: What is it that you feel like would be helpful
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: for you to know. I've got a plethora of resources,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: so instead of just throwing them all at you, is
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: there a way that I could make it more accessible
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: to you? Or could you come to me and tell
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: me what are you really struggling with so we can
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: share resources. We can attend appointments together when possible, We
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: can let the other parent practice without stepping in, especially
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: with neurodiversin kids who might have strong preferences or get
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: very easily dysregulated with one parent more that'll become a
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: practice for the primary parent to learn. I'm actually going
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: to take a step back for a sec and even
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: though it's not going to be perfect, how do I
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: take care of myself when maybe my partner does bedtime
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a little bit differently than I do and it's hard
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, And I want to just step in
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and fix it because I know I could do it better.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: But a big part of it is I need to
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: allow my partner to mess up, to learn on their own,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to do it their own way. As long as we
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: are aligned in our vision with we want our kids
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: to feel safe. We don't want them to be in
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: danger to themselves. Or to somebody else, But that might
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: mean we actually do pass time a little bit differently,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and that might be okay for example, So it doesn't
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: have to be exactly the same.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, can we explore a little bit about like
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: sometimes I think it would be really helpful if there
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: was some sort of system that parents could go through
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: together that would help them like define the vision, define
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: you know, their values, define how they're going to handle
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: different situations. Would something like that actually help to get
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: on the same page, Like would it help to sit
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: down and have a very structured conversation and write out
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: what you're agreeing to as far as how you parent?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: The question is exactly the reason what prompted me to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: write this book in the first place. Awesome, So it's
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a very good question. Kind of going off of that question.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: A lot of the time, folks will say there should
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: be a test or a compatibility match before we have kids.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And so my goal with writing this book is not
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: necessarily you know, how am I going to respond in
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: every single situation, because one thing that we recognize as
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: well is you don't know what you don't know, and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you might have conversations before you have kids and think
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: things like, I want to lead with intuitive eating for
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: my kids because I was raised in a house where
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: if I didn't finish the food on my plate, I
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: would get yelled at or I wouldn't be allowed to
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: leave the dining room table. So I'm going to do
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: things differently. If my kids sit they're full, I'm not
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: going to force them to eat. But then, I mean,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: my kids are two and four and right now they
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: have no interest in sitting and eating. So I thought
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that I'm not going to force my kids to eat.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: But just the other day, I was running around feeding
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: them helicopter eggs for breakfast because they need to eat.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I know that if they don't, they're going to get
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: more dysregulated, They're going to feel the timmis are going
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to hurt. And so while I try to explain to
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: them why I am doing this, that kind of thing
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: couldn't get caught so early on when I thought I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: would never do that. So the conversations that we have
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: when our kids are young, or before we even have
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: kids would really be conversations about awareness and so not
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: necessarily how am I going to parent in this situation?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: But where do my ideas about gender identity and financial literacy,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: or gender rules and expectations at home, or even postpartum
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: mental health, like what do I know about postpart mental health?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And when you give birth at a hospital, they give
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: you a pamphlet on the baby blues, but nobody talks
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: about how skins intrusive thoughts are after you have kids.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Nobody talks about how the non birthing partner can get
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: postpartum anxiety and depression or even what that looks like,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: or how do we reach out for support. A lot
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: of the times we don't talk about how intimacy changes
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and what our expectations are after the six week myth
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: rule and what actually is going on hormonially when that happens.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: So a lot of the pre kids conversations are more
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: what do I know about this topic? How did it
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: come up in my home? How does it come up
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: in my friend group? Systemically? What am I being taught here?
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: What are my ideas around it? And how might I
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: respond if this kind of thing happens? But not in
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: a rigid way, perhaps more so, where do I think
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I would lean towards? And is there some flexibility here?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: And why would I lean that way? So it's a
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: lot more of the why as opposed to what am
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I going to do when this happens?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So self reflection and exploration, but also intentionality, I think
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: is what you're talking about, being intentional about the way
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: we're going to parent versus here they come and here
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: we go and we just fall into it right and
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: hope that we get it right. And being more intentional
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: is definitely super helpful with neurodvergent kids because there are
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: these extra things that happen in our households that don't
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: necessarily happen in everyone's household that we need to figure
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: out how we're going to manage. I'm wondering about what
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: happens when you cannot agree on something? And I get
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: this question a lot sometimes my coaching clients. One parent
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: isn't even okay with diagnosis and evaluation, or isn't accepting
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: or is against medication or things like that. Like, there
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: are a lot of sticking points that can happen here,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: but it can also just be basics of you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: when they speak to you in an unkind way, how
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: you're going to handle that? So how do we work
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: through when we can't agree? What happens?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Then? Such a good question, So the first The first
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: part of what I'll say here is how you speak
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: about intentionality, and how that is really the point of
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: what we want to understand before we have kids. It's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: where we want to understand each other. So that first
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of all, when we're having some of these conversations, we're seeing, well,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: where where am I coming from? Where are you coming from?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So it's less about a decision itself of what's going
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: on here, because the small disagreements we think are about
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the thing itself are usually more based around like identity
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: and fear and values. And so when we first get
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: curious about what's going on for the other person, which
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: is what some of these questions are designed to do,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: or what's going on for me here, where is this
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: coming from? It gets underneath the conflict. So first is
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that curiosity, but secondly, underneath some of the things that
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: you're talking about of maybe not agreeing to diagnose or
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: taking medication. On the surface, it looks like that, right,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: should we get an assessment, should we try medication? But
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: underneath it's actually a lot of the time the fear
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: of labeling our child, the grief about expectations changing, or
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: worry about stigma or judgment or sometimes people might think, well,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: this means something about me as a parent, and so
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: one parent might be moving toward understanding and support, but
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the other might be protecting against things like fear or
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: loss or shame. And that's where our our own childhood
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: could come up. Because as we know, a lot of
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: neurodivergence are hereditary. So if we're talking about a kid
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: getting diagnosed or assessed for ADHD or autism and you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: might have it, maybe it's undiagnosed like as a parent,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: or maybe you've always struggled with it, or maybe you've
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: had your own experiences if people labeling you are calling
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: you different, or you feeling othered. And so because of this,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: it's really important too. If we have a hard time
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: understanding what's underneath that, a therapist or in your case,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: a coach could really help maybe expose some of those
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: pieces here, like what is it that we're really talking about?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: What is it that we're really afraid of? So that's
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a big piece of it as well, is what's underneath
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: here that I would start with.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: So really trying to gain their perspective and figure out
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: what's driving it, right, and that's something that we're always.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: That's the way we talk about behavior here, and that's
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: the work that we do with challenging behavior. What's underneath
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Let's get to the root of it, right, let's understand it. Yeah,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: and then we can actually gain some traction. And we
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: don't think about applying that to each other in our
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: relationships and our adult relationships. But I love that perspective
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: because it is so helpful. You know, trying to push
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: someone to see your perspective is not really helpful. But
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: if you're trying to see theirs, then you know you're
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I think you're building a bridge.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: That way, absolutely, And I can give a few specific
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: examples of what those questions could sound like. Yeah, if
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that's helpful, so perfect kind of based off of whatever
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and in the book as well. But the first piece
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: being what we're discussing right now is how do we
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: slow the conversation down and name the fear? So instead
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: of debating the decision itself, how do we go underneath it?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: We might ask questions, what worries you most about getting
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a diagnosis for our kid, or what feels hard about
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the idea of medication for you? Or what would it
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: mean to you if this is neurodivergence, if this is ADHD,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: if this is autism, and if we then move away
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: from the relationship and we focus on the child's experience
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: not the label itself, like if ADHD, autism, etc. Feels
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: too loaded, we come back to let's talk to each other.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: What is our child struggling with right now? Where are
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: they getting stuck? What support do they need today? And
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: if we're going back to understanding, maybe one parent is
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the one who sees this because they are the primary parent.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: They are the one the kid goes to, they are
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the one doing all the appointments. And maybe the other
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: parent it's not just because they're arguing. Maybe they actually
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: don't understand. They don't see it. They're like, I don't
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Like they seem like they're really sensitive
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: when I come home from a long day of work,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, they seems pretty normal to me.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: That can happen a lot of the time. So sometimes
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: when we are the primary parent, we also recognize, Okay,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: maybe you don't see the child struggling with this, but here,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: let me tell you what I see our child struggling
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: with because I see more. Here's what I see them
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: getting stuck. This is why I believe they need support
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: and where I see them struggling or where I see
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: them different from their peers. So we don't need that
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: full agreement to say, oh yeah, I see it too,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: or have both people see the exact same struggles, but
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: we want to just hear from the child's experience what
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: are they struggling with, so we can maybe get more
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: into that as opposed to the conflict between the parents
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: As you were talking, I remember so many parents saying
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: to me that there kid acts differently for one parent
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: than the other. Right, my kid is, you know, behaves
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: perfectly fine with me. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: So is it a matter of like bringing them into
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: those situations and letting them see what they're talking about
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: or helping like I think that they tend to add
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: more information to that than is really reality. You know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: how do you handle that conversation? How do you work
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: through if one parent feels like they're kind of getting
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the brunt of the challenge and the other parent feels like, well,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: they do just fine with me, so it must be you.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: That's such a good question. I actually connect to that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: personally because just a few weeks ago, we have a
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: parenting coach between myself and my ex husband and we
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: were talking about how have transition has been, and my
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: ex said, they're okay. Here, they play, they get in
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: their regular sibling disagreements, bed times are good, they sleep
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: through the night. And then they're were like, so, how
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: is it at your place? And I was like, oh, well,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit different and just and that's exactly
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: kind of what you're saying is we are going to
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: have different experiences in the different homes, and a lot
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: of the reason that that happens. I'm going to first
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: say it is not the fault of the parent who
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: is getting the brunt of it. It's not the fault
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of the parent who isn't getting any of it. It's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: some of this is just biologically based safety and not
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: saying that my kids don't feel safe with their father,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: but the ability to emotionally break down and fall apart.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And I see it like when my kids have been
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: with my parents all day and then I show up
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: and immediately my son collapses into my arms and cries
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and wants me to take him to the bathroom. Won't
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: let anybody do anything for him, and there's that heavy
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: lies the crown where you feel most comfortable with me
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to fall apart. But that also means I have to
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: do the brunt of the regulating here, and I have
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to regulate myself before I can be present from my kids,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and that's that's a challenge. So it's tough. One of
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the ways that we can really expose this is through
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a mediator, like a parenting coach, like we had like
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: me and my ex hat in that one session and
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: he saw that and he went, WHOA, I wouldn't have
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: guessed that it was that hard for you, and I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: didn't realize it was that hard for you. And you know,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: he's even said, what can I do to make it
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: easier for you? And the coach was like, well, there's
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: nothing really you can do. But what we want to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: do is let's try to just continue giving our kids.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Even though you're in two separate homes, We're going to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: try to keep giving our kids a similar level of
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: emotional safety and validation and learn to regulate yourself and
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: learn to notice the emotions your kids might be feeling
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: and give them opportunities to let out a lot of
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: their stimulation a lot of their energy, and that way
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: your kids can start to feel like, Okay, I'm allowed
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to have this feeling here. And my dad noticed that
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I was feeling grumpy and he didn't tell me I
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: should just stop, or that he's going to give me
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: something to cry about, or you know, ways that we
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: can make our kids feel seen. So that's kind of
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: what we continue to focus on as well, is how
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: do we make our kids feel seen and attuned? And
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: right now I'm getting the brunt of the emotional fallout,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: but I also recognize that it means that they feel
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: really safe with me to do that. In a way,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I feel honored. As hard as it is to have
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: that reaction from them.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Love that. Yeah, And emotional safety is something else we
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: talk about a lot for our kids and nervous system safety,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: and we don't about it in our relationships. And like
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that's another way that when we're having tough conversations with
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: each other struggling to get on the same page, like
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: giving out those cues of safety to each other can
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: be really powerful, right to sort of diffuse the feelings
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: that we're having some so that we can talk it through.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Is there one first step that a parent who's listening
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: to this can walk away and start to implement.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yes in terms of maybe getting on the same pages
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: strying to understand one another more in this sense. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: So I would probably say if we are noticing, like
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you're noticing whether it's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: there is a difference in the invisible mental load at home,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: or you want things to be different in terms of
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: gender rules or family structures, or your mental health is struggling,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: or we want to talk about neurodivergent parenting and how
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: my owner divergence shows up. And I haven't ever really
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: talked about this with my partner before, but I really
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: want to learn how to start. Depending on what it
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: is that you feel misaligned on, I'm biased because I
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: wrote this book, so I want to talk about it.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: But I would say it could be really helpful to
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: go through a book like this, because I don't know
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: of any other resource that ask something like this, where
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: we look at these chapters and we say, okay, right now,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: perhaps what I'm struggling with is finances. Let's say i
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm not in control of the finances, or
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it feels like there's a lot of shame around it
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: or discomfort. So if I were to come to my
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: partner with some of these questions, what questions would I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: come to them with? Or what questions would I even
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: start with? Like in my chapter on financial literacy, there's
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: questions like what memories do you have around money growing up?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: What emotions come up when you revisit them? Or if
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: it's about trauma and trauma at home, it could be
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: things like growing up, what was the environment like at home?
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And did I feel safe coming home? Was there predictability?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: And how might that affect me showing up today? So
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: first is we want to figure out what it is
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: that we feel like we're not on the same page
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: with or we feel like we're struggling with. And then
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the biggest part here is communicating it with your partner.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: We can get really good at doing all of our
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: own self help, all of our own reflection, having all
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: these resources once in a while telling our partner, hey,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: this is what I learned, But it's different than sitting
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: down and actually getting to know each other's inner world,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: and that part gets lost sometimes after we have kids,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: we don't have time, we don't have energy, So yeah,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: i'd say, get curious about specifically what feels off or
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you'd like to see a different reflect on that for yourself,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: but don't forget to bring your partner in and also
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: get to know their side and understand where they might
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: be coming from from the same topic. So that's probably
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: what I would say.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great place to start. I'm so thankful
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: for the work that you're doing, Martina, and for you
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: being here and sharing some of your time and wisdom
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: with all of us. I am going to link Martine's book, website, socials,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: all of that good stuff up in the show notes
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: for this episode, and you can find those at PARENTINGADHD
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: and autism dot com. Thank you again and thanks everybody
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: for listening. I will see you next time. Take good care,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I see you. You're doing hard and meaningful work and
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: you don't have to do it alone. If you found
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: this episode helpful, share it with someone who needs it
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: and leave a quick review so others can find this
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: support too. When you're ready for next steps, the Regulated
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Kids Project is here with the tools, coaching, and community
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: more info at regulated kids dot com.