Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / 100M+ Downloads & a Netflix Deal at 26.. Why Money Makes Friendships Weird — Jemma Sbeg

Transcript

100M+ Downloads & a Netflix Deal at 26.. Why Money Makes Friendships Weird — Jemma Sbeg · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  All right, let's get into it. Gemma Spegg, welcome to Female Startup Club. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited about this. Yeah, me too. You are the very first guest in the Pink Studio, in the Pink Room. You guys, I wish that the listeners could like –
• 0:17
  how beautiful this is in person and the whole feel of this and like your husband was here like setting it up like it is both like yeah it just feels very cozy. I feel like this is a representation of like my brain and my world I'm always like how can we make it more fun yeah how can we how can we not be boring yeah and my husband's always like oh god don't have another idea what is it now yeah and I'm like what about this when we were at um Techstars during the
• 0:46
  2024, like this business accelerator I was in, I was like, cool, we're getting up for demo day. You know, you're pitching to government, you're pitching to investors, that kind of thing. But what if we had confetti cannons and we did it and it was fucking unreal? Really? Unreal. Was everybody just like, okay, this woman has style. Yeah. She brings something extra. Yeah.
• 1:06
  I said it. And then the chick that sat next to me, Jenny, love Jenny. She was like, I know someone. And then she's like a really good, like the executor. So she was like on the phone, got it going on straight away. And then we had confetti cannons at demo day. And it was like the best thing of my life. I want one in here. Imagine at the end if we were like...
• 1:25
  Gold confetti. Or like glitter. I'm kind of scared you're going to do that to me now and I'm going to get like a jump scare. No, I won't. I'm like such a startled person. I would probably have a heart attack. I'd need to know in advance. Oh my God. Okay. I want to focus on you. You are 26. I think I read 26. Media powerhouse. You have something different.
• 1:45
  totally crazy, like 100 million podcast downloads. You have a Netflix deal. You have a bestselling book, Person in Progress. I just ordered it on Amazon. Thank you. Wow. Hey, girl. Thanks. It sounds really cool when you say it all together. And then most days I'm just with my dog and my boyfriend and I don't really think about it.
• 2:08
  When you think or like when you hear that now, are you like, whoa, fuck, I did that. That's cool. Did you think you would be here? Oh, gosh, no. No, no, no, no, no. But I feel like I can say it on this kind of show. I always knew I was going to make something.
• 2:25
  I love that. I just kind of always knew. I remember being young and I actually have this very core memory of talking to this girl I knew in high school and she was, I was like, I remember being like, I'm so worried about the future. I'm so blah, blah, blah. And she kind of looked at me and she was like annoyed. She's like, we all know that you're going to probably like invent something, make something. Like-
• 2:43
  And I remember she was kind of like, can you stop complaining? And it was actually a really validating thing where I was like, yeah, I do actually see myself that way. And it took a little while for me to – not actually that long, actually –
• 2:56
  I was 21 when I started the podcast, but I definitely had like my corporate stint both before and during when I was making the podcast. But I kind of just always knew I was going to be my own boss in a way. What were you like in school? Like when she said that to you and you were like, yeah, you're right, I am going to be fucking doing something. Were you like a straight A student or were you like, I'm just always like building and breaking and disrupting something or other? What are the kinds of characteristics of young Gemma?
• 3:25
  Well, this is why I would have been so freaking annoying because I was a straight A student and I was a very – and I actually – you know when you have the clarity of adulthood where you're like – you realize how annoying you would have sounded being like, I'm so anxious. And she was probably – yeah. Exactly. No, I was a very diligent student and I really loved the feeling of working hard.
• 3:48
  And I still love the feeling of working hard and setting your mind to something and getting to a point where you're like, oh my God, I'm so tired. And then doing another hour. But being so excited that you're like, you have to stay awake. You have to keep going. Like the laser focus. You're like zoomed in and you're like, I'm going to hit the milestone. Yeah, exactly. The flow state of hard work was something I really loved.
• 4:15
  And then I kind of lost it for a while. Like I went to uni and I was very burnt out after high school because I was like, you know, so obsessed with getting a great ATAR. And then I went to uni and the first year I was like, oh my God, everybody else here is so much smarter than me. And I just kind of let loose for a little while. The wild child era? Oh, yeah. What are we talking?
• 4:38
  I don't think it's safe. Tell me about your wild years. I don't know. I just know people have – it was weird when I got my Netflix year. You've got to be wild in your 20s. Oh, my God. You've got to have the best. I'm so glad I did it. Oh, it was the best. I did so many disgusting things to my body, which sounds bad, but, like, you know, the drinking and other things and, like, the partying. But I'm so grateful for it. Like, I think it let me relax. Yeah.
• 5:01
  I worry about that now when we hear about the younger generation being super – and I don't know if this is the case because I'm not surrounded by a lot of young teens to adults age group. But I worry when I hear that everyone's not drinking, not going out, and then you layer on the fact of what happens when social media is in the mix. When I was growing up, we didn't have social media, and it wasn't this – you didn't have to be always on –
• 5:28
  and at risk of something being shared about you online and going disgustingly viral and ruining your life the way that today's world kind of works. And I worry about kids who are not able to have that kind of free, loose, self-discovery stage in the world. Oh my gosh, because my sisters are like that. They're very homebodies. And I'm like, no, no, you've got to go and make
• 5:58
  by any means, but like be in situations where not everything is in your control. And obviously, like, you don't have to be drinking to do that. Like you could be solo traveling, you could be doing anything that like gets you out of your comfort zone. I've been thinking this as well, because I saw this video the other day of this girl at like a Lord concert, and she was a little bit drunk. And she was like, did you see this video? And she was kind of
• 6:22
  Probably, yeah, disturbing people, but somebody filmed her and posted her on TikTok and everybody was like that ungrateful person. She's horrible. And then she made this apology being like, you know what? You're so right. I was a bit drunk. I was having fun and I wasn't thinking about other people. And people were like, that's not good enough.
• 6:40
  What? I was like, I know when I felt so bad for her. I was like, gosh, I did so much dumb stuff like that that probably wasn't very, like, wasn't thinking about other people. But, you know, you're young and that's how you learn. And you know what I mean? And now with social media, it's like, maybe it is a fear of making mistakes publicly.
• 6:56
  Totally. And I think we hold everyone to such high standards and we love a teardown and a cancel culture and we're so this or them or us versus other kind of thing. I think we've done so much othering and so much kind of like we're all so polarized and divided and it keeps –
• 7:18
  perpetuating and like stuff like that you're like come on who really cares like get over it she apologized i don't know that's what i'm on my i'm on my high horse about at the moment
• 7:28
  Yeah, I'd be on my high horse about that too. Yeah. High horse. Is that what you said? Your high horse? Yeah. Yeah, that's the saying, right? Yeah, I think so. Okay, so you live in London. Whereabouts are you based in London these days? I'm based in like the north, northwest area, like Primrose Hill, Camden. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Love it around there. I needed to be near some nature. So we're right near like Primrose Hill and Regent's Park. I love the Rose Garden, like up in here somewhere. That's like one of my favorite places in London. Oh, it's so beautiful, isn't it? I was there before. So beautiful. Yeah, I need to go there more often.
• 7:57
  What are you back in Australia for? What are you doing here? Well, I was here for Dome Fest, which happened yesterday. Yes, yesterday. Tell me about it. Oh, it was so much fun. So basically it was like Australia's first podcast festival. So only like imagine going to a music festival, but it's all podcasts. There was 10 shows across two stages, no overlap. So you could see everybody that you wanted to see. Oh, I like that. Yeah, I know. They were so smart about it. And I did my session and my mum actually came on stage with me.
• 8:23
  She was my special guest. Oh, my God. What did you talk about? Well, I got her advice on some life decisions that some people wanted some help with. Like what? Well, okay. Do you want me to give you one? Yeah. Do you want to do it? Let me give you one and you tell me what you think.
• 8:38
  So there was this woman, this girl and her, she went out for drinks, went out for dinner, went out for clubbing with her best friend for her best friend's birthday. Her and her best friend and 10 other of her best friends, gal pals, and her best friend cheated on her boyfriend that night.
• 8:55
  And a bunch of them saw it. They were laughing about it, took photos. And the friend didn't tell her boyfriend. And so this friend is really, is like, do I tell the boyfriend or not that my best friend cheated on him? What do you think? And I was like, mom, come on, give us a minute. Jeez Louise. What did your mom say? My mom said...
• 9:15
  Talk to your friend. Don't tell the boyfriend. Like, you know, it shows that maybe you guys have a value difference that needs to be resolved. Or, you know, maybe your friend didn't make a really terrible mistake and is feeling awful about it. Maybe, like, you just need to say that wasn't cool. But she was like, it's not your job to tell the boyfriend. Your discussion should be with the friend and she should take accountability on her own. Which my mom is very wise. Yeah.
• 9:39
  Yeah, I think that's the... Everybody was, like, clapping more for her than me, so... Oh, my God, cute. I feel like, yeah, those... And they're such hard questions as well, because my brain instantly goes to, like, okay, we need more context. Like, brrrr, like, what's the question here that I need answers for? Yeah, yeah. That's just a kiss. Like, what was it? Yeah, there's, like, yeah, just, anyway, more context around it. But that's so interesting to do that with your mum.
• 9:59
  So you would kind of go through a lot of different questions and then get her advice. Yeah, four questions. And honestly, we had a few tech issues. So when she came out, it was like amazing because I was like, oh, my mom's here. Like bring your mom to work day. I was like, come save me. And she was. Come and hold my hand. Yeah, genuinely. And us. Yeah, she was just the best. That's why I was in Australia. Heading back to London tomorrow. I love that. Oh, wow. I know. I wanted. I made sure I was on the show. Do you have a jet lag?
• 10:28
  A jet lag? Do you have a jet lag? I definitely have a jet lag. I think, like, last night I beat it. Okay, right. But now I'm about to, yeah. It takes me a while these days, but I'm older than you. Actually, but no, I've been going to bed at, like, 8, 9 p.m. every single day. Do you go to bed before? No. Normally, like, I go to bed at, like, 11, 12 and wake up at, like, 8, 7 or 8. So...
• 10:48
  Yeah, I probably am still jet lagged. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. See how I go. I interviewed my grandpa recently and he's 91. And it was so cool. I didn't do it for, you know, like something that would be posted, you know, on social media or anything like that. It was just more to have – I like to document things. And so – and I know you talk about that. I was listening to an episode of you talking about that. But –
• 11:10
  I just wanted to have some of the kind of stories. I don't have a good memory. I'm not like a good recall kind of story person. So I need the document of it to be like, listen back to it. And we were talking about, you know, he's someone that can remember stories from when he was like six years old. But talking about...
• 11:27
  him and my grandma, how they met, their relationship, like all these beautiful stories that are just like nice to have. And I think when you can do anything like what you did with your mom or what I've done with my grandpa, it's like just so nice to involve these people in your world currently in this like new way and like have a moment or a story or a documented thing with them. That's so cool. Yours thing is cool. I kind of want to do that now. You should. Yeah, I think I should, especially as they get older.
• 11:55
  Yeah. It's important to have that. Yeah. So I've never been to therapy. Does that freak you out? No, I don't think it freaks me out. I do. It's helpful, but I feel like some people, some people just don't feel the need for it in the same way. Do you go to therapy?
• 12:13
  I do go to therapy. Actually, not right now. I need to get back into therapy. I know there's like the concept of therapy where it's like you just have a therapist like forever. It feels like more of the American style therapy where it's like I just have my therapist and we go and talk about whatever's happening in my life at all times. And then there's the other kind of therapy that's like let's solve problems.
• 12:31
  one core problem and give you the tools that you need to like move past that one core problem when you think about therapy like for yourself because I think there's like the my thinking is going to that place where it's like the psych goes to see what kind of psych you know so for you yeah what angle are you going into
• 12:51
  I think I can intellectualize a lot of my problems myself, but I go for the things that you can't intellectualize. And I just go for somebody... So what's an example? So grief would be one. Right. You can't intellectualize grief. You can kind of intellectualize a heartbreak. You can kind of intellectualize losing your job. Right.
• 13:14
  The other thing I feel like I can't really intellectualize like moments where I just feel really crap or I'm really having like periods of like really intense anxiety. So what do you mean when you can't intellectualize something like that? Like to ask the dumb question. No, no. But like what does it mean to be like, okay, I'm going to go and intellectualize grief?
• 13:33
  Well, I think intellectualizing is basically being like, I can give an academic explanation for this, and I can tell you why I feel this way, and I can tell you probably when it will end, and I can tell you it probably will never end, and I can tell you this and this and this, and I can give you the exact neurochemical baseline to why I feel the way I do. Yeah.
• 13:53
  that doesn't help me you know I actually just need to feel the feeling and move through it right and that's why I go to therapy so it's like how do you actually process exactly the thing that is on your mind like on a loop yeah kind of thing I think some people are very self-aware I feel like you're probably one of these people who's very self-aware and for me that always actually stopped me from going to therapy because I was like what are you going to tell me that I don't already know especially as somebody who worked like worked in the psych and mental health space
• 14:23
  Now, obviously, as a psychology podcast, I was like, I read so many papers. I have so many amazing guests who are much smarter than me come on the podcast. And they tell me everything. And definitely in recent years, I've been like, yeah, but no. Like, there are things that can't be...
• 14:40
  can't be explained away. Like you just need to know how to feel it properly. So that's what I've been endeavouring to do. Yeah. Cause when you say that, I'm still like, I just don't even understand. Like, I don't even know what that means to like, just feel something like, do you know what I mean? Because I'm like, and I think the problem for me, when I think about,
• 14:57
  psychology is like, or like going to see a therapist is everyone thinks that because I have a podcast and I'm great at like chit chat and chatting and I've built a career around talking, I'm good at communicating, but actually I'm really bad at communicating. And it's probably why I have a podcast.
• 15:13
  Interesting. Is that I'm able to talk to other people about what they're up to and like deflect from myself. And I'm not great about articulating my inner thoughts. And I have two thoughts going at once at all times. So for example, if I was like doing a keynote presentation or something on stage, I'd
• 15:28
  I will have the things that I'm saying out loud and it's like one track in my brain, but then I also have the inner dialogue that's a second track going that I'm having to like either quiet down, keep down and like not let it bubble up to like kind of go to that thinking. And I kind of have that thought around if you went to see a psychologist, it's like making sure that I say things the way that I would want them to be articulated and I'm going to be able to say things.
• 15:50
  and getting my internal dialogue clear before I word vomit because I'd probably then loop think and regret things that I said afterwards. To your psychologist?
• 16:00
  Yeah, I would for sure. Really? I'd be like, you're going to judge me. Honestly, they won't. Can I be real? I have friends who are psychologists and they do not judge you because they hear so many stories. And I mean like terrible things and the worst things that ever happened to people and people's most intense character flaws. And obviously they'll have their own opinion. But if they really didn't like you, they just wouldn't they wouldn't treat you.
• 16:27
  Yeah, I don't even know if it's about liking though. It's more like judging you. Judging like even if you're just not clear on your thoughts or like you're more scrambled. Like I just have so many millions of thoughts in a million directions that I'm like, how would I be clear? Yeah, I don't know. But that's their job to be like, let's give you 20 million thoughts and we'll figure out which one is actually the problem. Because actually I feel like half the time you have 20 million thoughts because there's one at the center that your brain's trying to protect you from thinking about.
• 16:57
  right and they'll be like this is really what's wrong so for you when you think about you know you have the podcast and you also go and see a psych yeah and you are an expert in that space how do you think about your own brain and kind of like your own thoughts when you're observing self yeah and also trying to be I guess not judgmental of self I'm so bad at it
• 17:21
  I'll be so real. I'm so mean to myself. I actually realized that recently. I was like, oh, you need to chill out. Like, I can be really – I definitely had a moment like a couple weeks ago where I was like, am I doing enough? And I had to just be like, yeah, get a grip. Like, genuinely get a grip. Like, what more would you have time to do right now? Like, probably not anything. I think for me, like, this is my big thing for the next couple years is learning how to feel a feeling, appreciate a feeling, and then –
• 17:50
  let it sit rather than trying to fix it rather than trying to like slap a band-aid on it or like work my way through it and then I realized like recently that I just use hard work sometimes as a as a distraction and so it'd be very easy to be like I don't have any nothing's wrong with my life and it's like well probably is some things but like I don't let myself think about it so that's what I've been trying to do is actually think about
• 18:14
  there were things that aren't going right more just so I'm more conscious of them and then can have more grace for myself. Do you know what I mean? Do you have an example? It doesn't have to be a deeply personal one. No, I can give an example. Thinking about that example of like,
• 18:32
  I'm not doing enough. I'm young. I've got all these opportunities. Like, this is not going to last forever. Go, go, go, go, go. And then having the grace to be like, okay, wait, but you're really dealing with this. And, you know, you've just moved to a new country and you're not particularly happy there. And your partner's also, you know, he's got a job now, but like for a period was, you know, looking for a job.
• 18:57
  really for not that long. But I was like, I'm trying to support him at the same time. Think about those things more. And don't think about them as – because I used to think that if I thought about those things, it was like making excuses. And now I'm like, no. Think about them because it provides context to your own life that often you can just – you try and ignore to be more productive. Yeah.
• 19:18
  And do you then like apply a toolkit to the thought? Or like what do you do with just sitting there and thinking about it? Oh, I'll just write it down. I will do something creative. I'll talk about it. I also found that mainly I will just write it down and just be like, let's just have this. I have a long running notes thing in my phone that's like any thought that I have that really gets stuck in.
• 19:42
  that I know isn't real, like that I know is not the truth. It's just a fear thought. I have a long running notes app list of all of those thoughts to put them in there. And then I to kind of just to keep track of like, well, when I think things are going to go wrong, I actually also have a list of things that I thought were going to go wrong that never did as a good reminder to come back to when I'm having a lot of anxiety about, you know.
• 20:03
  Because I think it's like there's something – it's scientifically proven that if you journal and you write things down, your brain processes it differently or something. I'm also someone who cannot journal. I'm like, oh, what do I even write and how embarrassing. I'm probably writing something so lame. No, no, no.
• 20:20
  I've asked people before, like, hey, when you're journaling, like, what do you actually say on the page? Like, what are the words? Are you trying to be eloquent? Are you trying to, like, just put down anything? And I was talking to this guy recently who works at the coffee shop and he was, I was asking him about how he journals because I've never been able to journal. And he was like, oh, I just literally write the thoughts. Like, if he thinks, like, this is lame. I don't know what I'm writing. I don't know what to say. He will write down. This is lame. I'm not very good at writing. I don't know what to say.
• 20:48
  And I was like, oh, that, because I think for me with my like classic ADHD brain is very much like I need to know the specific thing that's like. How to do this right? Yeah. Like what is the step and like what's the practical example someone can point to and then I understand. Whereas if it's conceptual, I'm like, but what are you actually saying? Like what are the words on the paper? That's so interesting. You should try voice noting instead. That's what I did for a while.
• 21:13
  where I would make vlogs of myself, where I'd put my phone out, not for anybody else, just be like, this is just what I'm feeling today, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm really struggling with this. And it really annoys me, and I just talk to myself out loud, and that was my way of getting it out. Because I found that that works for some people who I just can't journal.
• 21:31
  And so do you then just feel more relief? So much more relieved. And the other thing that it does is that, you know, in five months, six months, five years, you can go back and look at it and be like, wow, I have context now for the fact that feelings are temporary. And therefore, the feeling I'm feeling now is temporary. Because if I don't feel like this anymore, what I'm going through right now probably won't feel like this either in five years. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah.
• 21:53
  Yes, that's so interesting. When you think about taking that, but then zooming back out a bit further and thinking about when you speak to young women who are in their 20s and they're trying to figure out their life, who they want to be, what they're into, where they want to go, all that kind of thing. What are the most common challenges that young women in today's world are suffering from when it comes to their thoughts and their brain and their emotions?
• 22:23
  Definitely the sense of like, what is my purpose? What is my dream job? How come I haven't found it yet? And how come everybody else is somehow further ahead than me? I feel like especially in our 20s, it's like there is a sense of like, is there a race that I'm in that I don't know about? Like, is everybody else...
• 22:43
  further ahead in the race? Like, I really just don't know. And that's like what I hear from so many people in their 20s. Even when they have the dream job, even when they have everything going for them, they're still like, am I still behind? Like, what more could I be doing? Because now we're in this age and I feel like this has been said to death, but like, it actually is not natural or normal to have this much visibility over everybody else's lives.
• 23:07
  Yeah, it's weird. Because you could always find somebody who's doing better than you, right? And previously it was like, you can literally judge yourself against every single person who has any kind of social media presence. And that's unhealthy. And I always think of comparison as a circle. Everybody thinks of it as a ladder, where there's like, I'm comparing myself to this person who's obviously better than me in this, and that person's better than them, and that person's better than them. And there's somebody at the very top who's better than all of us.
• 23:34
  But it's actually like a circle where it's like you're comparing yourself to Sally. Sally's comparing herself to Jason. Jason's comparing herself to Amy, who's comparing herself to you. Like everybody is a little bit, is always going to be further ahead in certain things. And so the person that you're judging yourself compared to, it's probably judging themselves compared to somebody who's doing it with you. And I always think about that anytime I get into a comparison spiral. Yeah, it's really interesting when I think about
• 24:04
  When I was in my 20s, I was definitely more insecure. I struggled more with feeling content. I definitely was like, I want more, I want more, I want more. But I haven't found what I even want yet. I'm still trying to figure it out. But I also felt like it was a time of anything is possible. And I still feel that now. But also, you know, in your 20s, you're really like, it's the beginning. I've just entered like adulthood and like things are kind of like very difficult.
• 24:30
  anything is possible. Whereas in my 30s, I feel much more secure in who I am, myself, who I am as a person, my own values, really excited and happy about where I am professionally. But then at the same time, I'm like, well, fuck, I'm nearly 40. That's midlife. You're nearly 40? Yeah. I'm 40.
• 24:54
  about to turn 37. You're not nearly 40 or 36. Also, you look like you're in your 20s. Well, I'm 36, about to turn 37. And I forgot this. I was at the dentist the other day, side tangent. I was at the dentist the other day and I looked on, I thought I was 35. I look on the screen and it had my age, 36 and five months or something. And I was like,
• 25:13
  Oh my God. I didn't realize I was 30. I just forgot. I thought I was like back in the... That's actually so funny. It's devastating, but... But are your 30s fun so far? Are you having more fun in your 30s or did you have more fun in your 20s? In my 30s. Really? Yeah. I mean, I had more wild fun in my 20s for sure, but my 30s has been so much more like, I would say, peaceful, grounded and more exciting in terms of like achieving the dreams that I have because...
• 25:41
  you've like figured out who your kind of sense of self is and like what direction you're kind of going into. And I don't know, I feel like you're able to like,
• 25:51
  assess what you have wanted out of life and your goals and your milestones like become clearer versus in my 20s I felt a bit more chaotic but then I also to go back to kind of like you know women in their 20s right now and what they're struggling with I'm like how do people now navigate social media and AI and even like if we think back to even teenagers you know Australia has the social
• 26:16
  for teens like children and teens yeah I forget about it too because I obviously don't have any teens around me but um I'm like so for women who are in their 20s and still trying to figure out and suffering from the comparison and you know what you see online and just this craziness that you that is so intrusive to your psyche really how do you see that like
• 26:43
  I guess, like, how do you deal with that? How do women who are struggling with that, even in their 30s or their 40s or whatever, who cares about the age, how do you deal with that? Great question. Like, honestly, so great that I don't even know if I have an answer. Because it's, like, I think any way that you can, but also just by genuinely doing
• 27:06
  spending a day, spending a couple hours thinking about just one off, maybe a one off every now and again, thinking about like, what do I actually want and what actually makes a good life for me? Not what I think would make a good life, not what everybody else thinks would make a good life, not what everybody else is doing to have a good life. Like genuinely, what are like the three things that I would like to describe my life as? Yeah.
• 27:32
  Like if you are a creative person, like stop trying to chase the corporate life that is somebody else's dream. If you are somebody who genuinely just wants like a nice house in the country, stop trying to hustle like somebody who needs, you know, to make a million dollars or however much money before they turn 30. Genuinely know like what do you want –
• 27:50
  Even if it's allowed to change, but like right now, like what do you want? And then also, oh, I don't have an answer for the AI thing. Upskill yourself in terms of social and soft skills. Like genuinely get really good at having conversations, work on being an interesting person, work on, you know, knowing yourself and your personality. I think that's honestly the best thing you can do in this age because with AI, like AI can take –
• 28:15
  so much but it can't take your personality away and it can't take like what the imperfections of of being human that are like really appealing so yeah that would be my advice it's interesting because when you're talking about you know like the self-audit of what you actually what are the things that make you happy it's so important to actually be like what
• 28:34
  are the things that make me happy? Like if I switch off all this crazy stuff that's changing in the world and all this kind of like social media and this like screen addiction and this doom scrolling, what are the things I actually get joy from? What are the things that make my day-to-day life better? Not the like holidays that you have once a year or these kind of things that are somewhere else. It's like, what are the day-to-day things that you're like, oh,
• 29:00
  I enjoy blah. And I think it's so important to like keep those things front of mind and be like, cool, how can I weave that into my day-to-day life? Yeah, totally agree. Last year. So for me, one of the things that I like would have dreamed of being is like some kind of like performer, like would have loved to be a pop star. Can't dance, can't sing, but I love it. Karaoke, I'm your girl. Like the Uber drivers, I serenade them. They are just like, get this shit out of
• 29:30
  But last year I was like, you know what, I'm going to start going to like singing lessons and dancing lessons because it's fun for me. I don't even care if I suck at it. And that makes my life richer because I have that kind of like element to doing this thing that really lights me up. It gets endorphins into my soul, you know? And I think it's important for people to...
• 29:50
  look for those little things and then be like, cool, I'm not going to be a pop star, whatever. But I could still go and do a lesson, you know. I could still go and bring in joy that way. This is why I don't like London at the moment because I'm like, what really makes me happy is like being around my pets and being outside and that is giving me limited opportunities to do that. So it's about being like what's actually going to make me happy. And I moved to London being like this is a thing I should do in my 20s. I should do this and now I'm like, this isn't it though.
• 30:19
  Yeah, I think I'm like the fast forward version. I'm the future you version. I was like desperate to move. I moved from Queensland to Sydney or from Brisbane to Sydney. Loved it. Like immediate success. It was like tick, tick, tick ocean. Yep. Like this is for me. Moved to London and it was like such a different move. When did you move? How old were you? Sorry.
• 30:40
  I think I was 20, I must have been like 24 or 25. Yeah. And it was 2015 that I left. 2015, yeah. But it was such a hard move and I loved it for so many reasons. And, you know, I met my husband there, I got my dog there. But I realised that that was like one of those fundamental things of realising who you are and what you like. I really like sunshine. I really like ocean. I'm just someone that wants that in my day every single day.
• 31:08
  rain or shine kind of thing. Exactly. I feel the same way.
• 31:13
  So what are you going to do about it? How do you feel about living there and not loving it? Well, you know what? I was really in my head about like, and you know what? This could change. I could do six more months and fall wildly in love with London, right? I could. I don't know if that's, I don't know. But I could. Something could happen. Never say never. I could meet like my best friend and never want to leave her side, right? I could suddenly have like an amazing like career opportunity. London could suddenly get a beach.
• 31:40
  who knows? Or you could be like, how would I make this work for me? So if it's the beach, cool. I spend three months of the year in. Yeah. In Greece or wherever in Italy, like maybe that would be the dream actually. But I think that after, you know, I had this whole thing where I was like, I don't want to be like, I quit or like, this is a failure or whatever. And then I was like, who gives a fuck? Sorry to swear. Like who cares? Swear away. Yeah. Like genuinely, if I'm not happy, I'm not happy.
• 32:09
  Why am I staying? Just to feel more unhappy. You know what I mean? Like to prove to who and to what to people who literally won't care like a matter on my deathbed. So I think we're going to give it to the end of the year and then see how we're going. Cause I do still believe in sticking it out. But if I've done a year, I'm going to be like, all right, cool. And I'm really still unhappy. I'll, I'll be back in Sydney. Yeah. That's too short. I have this thing, like, it's like a super simple, like exercise that I do where
• 32:37
  If I say to myself, oh, imagine if, or wouldn't it be cool if, and whatever the fill in the blank is, I trigger that, like that thought will happen. And then I trigger it to be like.
• 32:48
  What if I could do that? So like if you just said, oh, that would be actually the dream, going to live in Greece. My thinking is like, so why don't you go and live in Greece? Because you're over there. Don't come back before you do that. Like go and even if it is three months, you'll never regret doing three months there. Like ditch your apartment, like get your husband to have a remote job, your partner to have a remote job and like go live in Greece and just like live that lifestyle. I know. Gosh, I should be thinking more that way. I reckon you should. But I'm thinking that, I know.
• 33:18
  I'll have to have a look around. Italy might be more my style. Exactly. Go live there. Yeah. Be so amazing. You talk a lot about loneliness and kind of isolation, and that's where I was going earlier with the whole AI piece and then got sidetracked with my thoughts. But
• 33:35
  There's this stat I read recently that was talking about 76% of founders struggle with loneliness, which is seven times more than the average workplace. And then as you get more successful, you outgrow your peers, you struggle more with isolation in terms of not knowing who to talk to. You can't complain to your staff. You can't be vulnerable to your investors. Yeah.
• 33:59
  Can't complain to your friends. You can't complain to your friends. Your friends don't get it anymore. Like they love you. They're like, great. But they're like, I don't even understand what you're talking about. Like, what? Also like, aren't you making all this money? Yeah. Literally. Don't you like love your job? Yeah. But like when we're thinking about,
• 34:17
  loneliness as you become more and more successful, and I'm sure this is something that you're starting to kind of feel for yourself as well, where you're like, okay, wait, I'm in my early 20s, but I'm very different to my peers and where my peers might be. How do you think we should be managing that aspect of loneliness with our brain and what's happening cognitively for us? Because it's like, this is happening, loneliness over here, but then over here, there's like,
• 34:44
  AI kind of tools and technology and the rapidly fast-paced change of the landscape that's kind of like meant to make things better but possibly making things worse, you know, having an AI companion or whatever or being stuck in a doom scroll on social media and kind of like in that whole thing.
• 35:01
  Or making it worse instead of making it better. How do you think about loneliness and what are your kind of like, if you're observing yourself and how you kind of connect with your peers and if you feel isolated and things like that, how do you manage that? As a founder?
• 35:19
  I would say it's been really hard the last – because my career has gone – and just a hockey stick level of growth where it's just gone really, really fast. And a lot of my friends, like, do not work in this industry. I have a couple that I'm so grateful for, but I would say the majority of my friends are actually, like, people I met in uni who are, like, lawyers. Lawyers and lobbyists and –
• 35:45
  working environment and like and a lot of them have corporate jobs which I used to have a corporate job and that was great I could be like my boss sucks and they'd be like yeah my boss sucks and I was like yeah our bosses suck now it's like boss yeah now it's like if I say my boss sucks I'm talking about me like um and it's just a whole new set of problems that
• 36:04
  I just think are really difficult to understand. And it's hard to understand the personal buy-in to the problem. Like how much something that seems frivolous actually is really impacting me. You know, I feel really difficult. I find it really hard to complain about like social media to my friends or to complain about dealing with, you know, huge media contracts with my friends because a lot of it is like, wow, what a privileged problem to have. And they would never make me feel that way. But there are definitely, to be real, if I was them, I'd be like,
• 36:34
  I would be a bit annoyed about it, especially like my friends who are, you know, social workers and psychologists and like who work so much harder than me. Let's be real, like do a lot more. Their days are more stressful than mine and they make a lot less. And it's like I feel very frivolous.
• 36:51
  And they would never make me feel this way. They're so wonderful. But, you know, complaining about that stuff. So it does feel lonely because you kind of gain a new set of problems, which may not seem significant to other people, but are like daily things for you. I think if anybody who's listening, who has just started their own company, who was thinking about it, who has started their own podcast, whatever it is that you've done, you're
• 37:13
  find a founders network find a group of people find a good co-working space anything find people or peers in your field who you can talk to because sometimes it's like the only thing you really need is just somebody else to validate you and i went to this amazing brunch the other day with a bunch of people in london um for my friend she runs a jewelry brand she's incredible smoothie jewelry what is it smoothie jewelry smoothie jewelry shout out to smoothie everywhere she's so cool
• 37:40
  And she put together this like International Women's Day event with all these really cool people. And it was one of those first, it was like one of the first times I had genuinely just been like.
• 37:50
  Wow, you get that too. And the thing we were talking about was your strangers celebrating you more than friends. Have you found this? There are people who I do not know who give me more support than people I've known for like 10 years. And how do you navigate that? Like how much are you owed from your friends when you enter a new chapter of life? So how do you navigate it?
• 38:17
  Um, I just, I don't know. I don't know. I think with my Netflix, when my Netflix deal happened and I launched on Netflix, there were definitely people who I was like, oh, I thought I would hear from you today. And I didn't hear from them. Yeah. And that was really difficult. And then it was about like...
• 38:33
  Is that entitlement or should I lower my expectations or, you know... Yeah, am I the problem? Am I the problem? And that's always where my brain goes first. I'm like, it's really entitled to think that people would care as much as you do. And then my boyfriend was a bit like... We've been together for a while, but I'll say boyfriend for the sake of it. He...
• 38:51
  He was like, no, this is amazing. This is one of the biggest things that could ever happen to somebody in this space. 100%. The person who's known you since you were 17 should care enough about whatever it is that...
• 39:07
  that they reach out to you. And I actually just ended up, there was one person in particular who I love dearly. And I just said, Hey, like I really expected more and I don't want there to be bitterness between us because I love you a lot. So I just want to bring it up and give you the
• 39:27
  And it made our friendship stronger. So I'm glad I did it. Sometimes having a bit of the courage to say, like, I feel this sort of way. Help me understand. Explain it. Whatever. It's really, really helpful. And I guess that could also go the other way, where you might kind of discover the friends that you naturally have.
• 39:50
  outgrow and let go of and move away from as you kind of shift into different circles. Yeah, that's definitely happened as well. Also to be completely candid, like with money,
• 40:03
  Money makes things really awkward sometimes, especially getting – I don't know, I don't have world's amount of money, but getting a significant amount of wealth in your 20s is when you went in a couple of years and trying to figure out how to not make that awkward for everybody. Yeah.
• 40:24
  Totally. And who to talk to? What could I be doing to maximize it? Whatever. Who cares? What should I be investing in? How do I start investing in whatever? It's different conversations that you're starting to have. Yeah. And like, it's also just like, I don't want to make my friends uncomfortable and I don't know, like complain about stuff. It's also just like, what do you tell them? How much your Netflix deal is for? Do you tell them how much your podcast deal is for? Or...
• 40:51
  But you know what I mean? Like me and my friends used to talk, we always used to talk about like how much we were making and when we would get promotions. And I honestly think it's important for women to talk about that. Same. I'm such a sticky beak. I'm like, tell me everything. Yeah. And also so you can be like. I'll tell you everything. Yeah. So I'm like, so you can be like, you know, you're not getting what you deserve or whatever. And especially if you work with people as well, having open communication about that. And it was this weird shift where it was like, I remember signing my first big deal and,
• 41:20
  I mean, like, this is insane, but no, I should not tell them because it's just a bit, I don't know. That's so interesting. Even now I feel awkward talking about how I felt awkward, you know. Yeah, it's so interesting because it's so important to talk about these things. I'm like a big advocate for like sharing and talking about money, talking about the things that feel weird, even though they shouldn't feel weird, like to me. Yeah.
• 41:45
  And, you know, we have a private network that we've been building specifically for women who are becoming more and more successful. Obviously, you'll have to be have to be in there where you do have people around you who are at a similar stage to where you are. So you can openly share these kind of things and like look to your left or look to your right and be like, hey, I'm not.
• 42:05
  what did you do in this situation? Like, I know that you're kind of in the same space, or maybe even if you're not in the same space, but there are overlapping kind of, like, themes where you can be like, do you know how to navigate this? Because, yes, I love my friends, but my peer group from a social perspective is very different to the people that I hang out with, you know, work-wise or creator-wise or whatever. And I think it's like,
• 42:31
  finding finding those kind of people that you can have around you to have those conversations and navigate together so you're not further isolated and you're not further alone and it's not just about money I thought that's a small point but just other things where I think it's really hard because like a lot of my friends do work in yeah high pressure environments and again I don't want to come in and be like woe is me because I want to respect that like they work really hard and you know it's just different but I still love them I don't know
• 43:01
  I'm still trying to figure it out. Also, I'm quite young. You know, I was quite young and I feel like I made a few mistakes for talking about it or not talking about it. So something I wish I had more information about. You know what I mean? Something I wish I had a mentor to talk to me about it. Right. Yeah. Someone who's like a few steps ahead to be like. To be like. How to navigate this. Yeah. Like a business therapist. A business therapist. Yeah. Like I really still do. I need that too. I know. I know. I need to find a good one.
• 43:28
  You talk a lot about, or I don't know if you talk a lot about this, but something that I was listening to on one of your episodes was talking about how to change your mind about something and change your mind about something big. And that's actually something my husband and I do. And I can give you an example afterwards.
• 43:47
  What was something big that you changed your mind about? And how did you go about that decision-making framework to change your mind? Oh, my goodness. So many beliefs of mine have changed in the last probably five years. I think a big thing that changed for me was whether I should go back to school. I really wanted to go and do my PhD for a long time.
• 44:12
  And I really felt like I needed that to feel like I was an expert and I could have authority to what I was saying. And I really felt like that was always going to be my path. Like, I really do love academia. And then in the last year, I've been like, actually, it's kind of sad, but I was like, that dream's probably not going to happen.
• 44:31
  Not that it can't, but I think that it's not my dream anymore. Yeah. And I've changed my mind about it. And it was hard to admit that to myself. Like, you kind of need to stop hanging on to that. This actually isn't what you want anymore. And this isn't the way your life is going. So, yeah, maybe it will. And I really had to change my mind about what was important to me in terms of, like, my future.
• 44:54
  And so how do you, when you're kind of, because I think for anyone listening, let's say they have, it could be a relationship, it could be a friendship, it could be a career pivot, it could be going back to school, it could be children, yes or no. All of these huge buckets that you kind of like can also just be on autopilot, going, going, going, buying a house, whatever, going, going, going, going, going. How do you for yourself just stop and be like, wait,
• 45:19
  observing this big thing, what if it was the other way or something? How do you even get to the point of being like, oh, wait, I should think about this for a minute? I think it's when you start to feel like it's on your mind all the time and there's discomfort. When there's discomfort is where you should dig deeper. When you're uncomfortable is where you should be like, okay, this needs some interrogating.
• 45:40
  So if you find like, oh my God, I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about this, and you're just thinking about thinking about it, or you'll keep going back and forth and there's no break in the cycle. Like for me thinking about, I've had a lot of things I've changed my mind about, but that's just the easy example. I was like, I should do it. I should do it. I should do it. I shouldn't do it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, just stop.
• 45:59
  pause and get this out of your head and outside of you verbally and just speak about it. And what I always do is like, yeah, pros cons list is great, but also my future if this happened and my future if this didn't happen and the worst case scenario for both. And then I...
• 46:20
  I always make sure that I take the worst case scenario and I give myself a bunch of other options about how it could be better, how it could not be the worst case scenario, and how I could cope even if it was. So I think about...
• 46:37
  like the wanting or not wanting children is like a good example. And it's like, okay, so my life in five years, if I decide I want children and we have children, this is what it would look like. My life in five years, if I decided that I didn't want children, we didn't have them, that's what it would look like. What would be the worst case scenario in both of these cases? Worst case scenario, I end up realizing I hate being a mother.
• 46:55
  And I realized that this has taken all my freedom. If I have kids, worst case scenario, if I don't have kids, I ended up realizing there's this huge, awful hole in my life that I can't fill with anything else. That's the worst case scenario. What are five other scenarios that could actually happen? And then what's, what's the best case scenario and what's the alternative that could be even better? You know what I mean? And that's so important to me to, and how could I cope? So like, say I decide not to have kids and I have this huge, terrible regret, uh,
• 47:23
  I could still survive that by being a mother in so many other ways. Mothering pets, mothering friends, children, like mothering, you know, nature, mothering family. So, yeah, that's how I try and do it. And that's what happened with my PhD idea. Whenever I've broken up with anybody, I go through that as well. Even deciding to move back from London probably soon.
• 47:51
  Haven't done it yet. I'm talking like I have. I also like in those kind of situations and those like the big topics, it's for me, it's about understanding like the five whys deep. So like, why do I want to do something? Why? Like, is it ego? Is it money? Is it?
• 48:06
  it's going to get me to the next thing. Is it like, what is it? And kind of like breaking down and it always takes like getting, you know, whatever the answer is first, it's then like being like, but why does that then matter? And so getting like really to the core root of why you're driven to do something, because then you can almost like pop the bubble and be like, Oh,
• 48:24
  actually don't care about that or yeah oh I really do that's why I now understand my purpose of why I want to do this thing and like just truly understanding your own motivation with it yeah so important so important I want to kind of switch lanes for a minute here and talk about the Netflix deal obviously this is a business podcast and I've rattled in a million different directions and I want to talk about the business stuff yeah
• 48:52
  I want to talk about the Netflix deal and how something like that comes about. What is it? Tell me more. Tell me everything. Yeah, well, the Netflix deal basically is a deal for two years so that all my video podcasts are on Netflix. Nowhere else you can't find video episodes anywhere but Netflix. The audio episodes you can find elsewhere, but it's for 96 episodes per year for two years to begin with. And yeah, it started in January when we're recording this. What is it now? March, April? Yeah.
• 49:22
  So we've done it. So cool. I know. It has been really cool. It's also been very life-changing in a structural way, how it's shifted, how busy I am, what my weeks look like, what my relationships look like. I went from being – I had one employee. Now I'm a boss to like –
• 49:41
  10 people what yeah in like the span of three months like so many people problems oh i know i'm not i don't know how good i am at it a lot of them are like contractors as well but um yeah and i'm you know having to manage how we produce the show a team of editors like it's just gone really big really quickly
• 50:01
  And so I don't know if you talk publicly about like the numbers, you know, how the kind of deal is structured, like what is the kind of money that you're going to make? So no pressure if you don't want to talk about it. I don't mind. I probably won't. So I always ask just in case. But how did you go about negotiating the deal? So like what happens like were they just like knock, knock, like here's an email, here's what we're thinking. You know, I know we were talking about it kind of off camera a minute ago, but like what is it actually like? Did you negotiate it? Did someone else negotiate it? Like how does that work?
• 50:30
  So they contacted us through iHeart, who is my network for my podcast, and they wanted to see a slate of podcasts that they thought were kind of like heavy hitters and very recognizable. Mine being one of them. Thank you for my listeners for making that possible. It's hard sometimes to talk about it because I'm like, I don't always see myself that way, but it's...
• 50:52
  You know, it's the podcast, you know, not me. So that makes it easier. And they essentially, yeah, we negotiated with my lawyers, iHeart, Netflix to find like a good deal. But Netflix kind of came to the table with like, this is what we're going to offer. Take it or leave it. And iHeart was like, this is what we're going to offer as part of our contribution to this deal. We can negotiate that. And I just have an amazing team of lawyers. I will say like, get a good, if you are...
• 51:21
  Music. If you are in music, if you are in business, if you are in anything where you are the center of how money is made, get a really good lawyer. And I luckily had an amazing one. I don't have a lawyer. You don't have a lawyer? I'm like, do I need a lawyer? I'm scared for you.
• 51:39
  uh probably not i think doing my textiles contract with chat gbt no you need a lawyer i didn't i had a lawyer i was gonna say i was like no no get a lawyer because they and having a good lawyer who can be like no don't want that like and luckily my partner's also a lawyer so he gives me a second round of of protection and um oh yeah we're gonna have to have a follow-up conversation about this oh he's it's a great record yeah dating lawyer is amazing actually i really enjoy the perks
• 52:04
  The perks financially. No, the perks of him doing a lot of the work for me. And also he writes all my contracts for me. So if I have an employee contract, if I have a usage contract, anything, he just does it for me. Oh, I love that. And I trust him a lot with it.
• 52:19
  And so when you think about the impact of Netflix emotionally and like on your soul, what has been the biggest change, you know, less about the numbers and the distribution that you're going to get and the success and the fame and all this kind of thing? What is the like the personal thing? Are you just like, hell yeah, pat myself on the back? Does it make you more anxious? Does it put more pressure? Does that change things with your friends or your family? What is the kind of impact that the deal has had emotionally for you?
• 52:48
  Well, I feel like we're Australian, right? My family were like, cool. Netflix, what's that? Yeah, I think they watched like one episode. My auntie will still be like, even my mum actually, so what do you do? Yeah. Like, how do you make money again? Yeah, I know. I know. That's a question I get a lot from my family. They're kind of like, what? No, I think you know what it's changed. Can I be real? I feel like I just grew up really quick. Like, I feel like I've, I just had this,
• 53:17
  I, it's not that my personality has changed, but the way I see myself changed in a couple of weeks where I went from being like, I have this fun thing that I do that I love. And I like to be creative to being like, Oh, I run a business now. Like, yeah, you have a responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. And I really see the shift. Like I shifted into thinking of myself as like a business owner and a founder this year. Um, whereas previously I would have told you that I was a creative and that I was somebody who, you know, even until up to last year, I was like, this is my hobby.
• 53:46
  Right. Obviously not. I was paying my bills. Like I was making money. Yeah. But even then, it wasn't like a crazy amount. I was like, oh, this is like, I feel so uncomfortable. I need to get better at this. But yeah, my whole identity as who I was shifted.
• 54:07
  Yeah, it's like the language changed. The language changed. The language changed and also like how you kind of like show – like how you show up and present to the world emotionally for yourself, how you think about yourself. Yeah, and I also – I've been a lot more conscious of like –
• 54:22
  probably beating down on myself a little bit more of being like, don't you, don't be, no entitlement is allowed to like go through. Like I really was conscious of like, I just don't want to feel any more important than I, than an average person. And I don't know why, but I just, yeah, I was really worried about that. Where I was like, oh, which is probably a sign that it's not going to happen, but I was really worried about not being a dick about it.
• 54:47
  I don't know. I just have seen that happen sometimes. And I'm like, I just didn't want that to be the case. And then the other big thing is I'm a boss now, which we were just talking about, and wanting to be a good boss and thinking about what that means. I really want to be a good boss and I want to be a good leader and I want people to feel cared for, taken care of. I want our company to do things differently. We have breakup leave. Your leave does not need to be approved. Breakup leave. I love that.
• 55:14
  Yeah, like when you were like a Gen Z company, right? Like your leave does not need to be approved. So as long as you give a month's notice, we will find – like you don't have to ask me to go on holiday. You don't have to – there is no requirement for a doctor's note for sick leave ever. Yeah, what the hell is that though? You could literally take a month off. And yeah, obviously we'd be worried. If you get your work done, you get your work done. You're good. Yeah, obviously we'd be a bit worried about you if you took a month off and didn't give us an explanation and didn't do your work. But it would be more like –
• 55:44
  you okay like what can we do to help you because I'm just like people are smart and people want to work hard and the people that we we bring onto the team work really really hard and I trust you and that's like yeah it's definitely made me think about what it means to be a good person to work for and that's really important for me the values you want to bring through your company and which I hadn't thought about until this year and now I'm like yeah
• 56:07
  That's so exciting. Yeah, I hope so. I've loved this. I have two final quick questions for you. Firstly, just for anyone who's listening who is in her 20s, what is your message to young women who are in their 20s and they want to strive for success and make all their dreams come true?
• 56:27
  I feel like, and this is something I live my life by, is this is the decade for making the mistakes that your future self will thank you for. That's my life philosophy for this decade of my life. So not my life philosophy, my 20s philosophy is if you do nothing more than open a bunch of doors...
• 56:53
  and realize that what's on the other side is not for you you've still done more than somebody who's opened one door or hasn't opened any so just like be like is that gonna work no is that gonna work no maybe yes and now it's not working anymore like just put yourself in as many situations as you can to prevent the the what if and the regret of later on
• 57:13
  You have to figure out what you don't like to figure out what you do like. See, that's a more clear way of saying it. I've tried all of these. You're the expert. I'm like, if I don't like it, I just won't do it. My brain is like, nope, moving on. That's me with TikTok. Pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. Yeah. Until you land on the thing that you love. Yeah, exactly. I.E. Oops. I.E. Pink Room. And my last question is, you have built a brand around psychology in your 20s. How do you think about psychology in your 30s?
• 57:43
  Oh my God, this is a question I get a lot from listeners. Nobody's ever asked me about it on the podcast before, or on a podcast. I'm going to give you a completely candid answer. Great, please. Totally honest. I don't think I will do the psychology of your 30s. I'll see how I go, but I spent...
• 58:01
  And if I do, I'm going to need a little bit of time off because I spent my entire 20s documenting what it means to be in this decade. And I kind of wish I lived it a little bit more and I still have a couple more years. Yeah, multiple couple more years. I would really like to be doing something a little bit different. But who knows? The evolution of you. Yeah, I know. The evolution of self. I really do believe it will happen. Whatever needs to happen will happen.
• 58:29
  I love that for you, Gemma. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having me. Loved this. Yeah, the best.
• 58:38
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 59:02
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 59:25
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show, and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.