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INTERVIEW: Demaurice Smith Talks 'Turf Wars,' NFL 'Unincorporated,' Colin Kaepernick, Shedeur Sanders + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Every day a week ago, clicks.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Up the breakfast club.
• 0:05
  Speaker 3: You're finish, the y'all done morning. Everybody is the j
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Envy Jess, hilarious, Charlamagne, the gud. We are to breakfast club.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Lawla roses here as well. We got a special guest
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: in the building. Yes, indeed, he said, just call them
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: dep deep, ladies and gentlemen.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Morris Smith.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Welcome man, there's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I'm a little late. I would have crushed
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: breakfast had I been here earlier.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you still got time to get something done.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: But you're the former executive director of the nfl PA.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Tell us what that title helped you know?
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Simply, you're the head of the union. You represent all
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: eighteen hundred and thirty five players. You go to war
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: with thirty one billionaires. You do the best to make
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: sure our guys get paid. You make sure that they
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: have health care, make sure that they have control over
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: their work. You govern their pensions, their post career training, everything.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: So you're the union representing a lot of players and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: they're look, they're for most of our guys, it's their
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: first job, which makes it difficult to sometimes represent them.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Because they've never had the kind of jobs I had
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: coming up paper routes, working at a pizza place. Those
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: guys come into the business of football believing and understanding
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: how to play the game. They know virtually nothing about
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the ruthlessness and the cutthroat nature of the business. And
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: your job is the head of the union. At least
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: for me, I only had one way of doing it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: You know, my coach used to call it ten toes
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to the line every day, going up against the guys
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: who you know, sit in the sky suites and want
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: our dudes to work. And then the other thing is, man,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: just tell the guys the truth. And sometimes they don't
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: want to hear it because they've grown up in a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: culture of football that rewards them for everything they do
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: on the field, and they have a misunderstanding that Jerry
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Jones doesn't care wow, and robber Craft doesn't care. And
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you know, there's always that sign on draft Day that says,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: welcome to the NFL family. And I told the same
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: rookies for fourteen years, you are not in the family
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: because you are not in the will. It's reality. I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: mean again, some guys don't like to hear that because
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: it's a little brutal. That's where I came from, and
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: that's kind of the way I want to do business.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: But you're not in the will.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: What's the most difficult thing you have to deal with
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: with being headed at union? As far as dealing with teams?
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: What's the worst thing that the most thing that they
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: hate giving up? And I'm sure you can control control
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: what type of control all of it?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: You know? I forget it was listening to Dion, who
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: was always great to me. He always had this line,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you either you either chase the game or chase the bag, right,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: you know the bag, you chase the money, And sometimes
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: our guys are just focused on the money. What drives
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the NFL is control. They want to control everything and
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a you know, for example, up until twenty eleven, the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: National Football League had the unilateral right, exclusive right to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: add as many games to the schedule as possible.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: It was just crazy.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: They could have gone up to twenty one games, twenty
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: three games if they wanted to. I mean, I'm a
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: little older than everybody else in the room. Don't say
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: anything else, happy birthday, But I remember a fourteen game season.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I remember a sixteen game season, you know, when it
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: went from fourteen to sixteen, the players never got any
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: more money. Wow, I don't know nobody does, right, it's
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: they No. From when they went from a twelve game
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: season to a fourteen game season to a sixteen game season,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: they never got an increased shaff revenue.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I get it because the contract contract already sept for
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: the you.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: You you just spread out the money along day, right,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And even guys when I came in in two thousand
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: and nine didn't understand that. Right. Yes, revenue increases, so
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the cap goes up, but it's just like you know,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: you're working at a I worked at Jerry's subshop, right,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: you work Monday through Friday, Boston, give a you know
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: how you how you deal with your life or what
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: you've got going that day. But if the guy comes
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in and says, hey, man, I got a good idea.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna work on Saturday and Sunday, first question out
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of my mouth would be what how much overtime on
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: a game? When they went from twelve to fourteen to sixteen,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: the players never got paid overtime excury. So in twenty eleven,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I mean we went through a war. I mean they
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: declare a war on us. I do war. The big
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: win for the players in twenty eleven was we wrestled
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: back that unilateral control and we got the ability to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: govern our work. So you know that resulted in you know,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you fast forward to twenty twenty. The league wanted a
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: seventeenth game. Fine, you know, the players wanted a seventeenth game. Fine.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Some players didn't won a seventeenth game. Fine, but it's
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: a democracy, so the players voted for a seventeenth game.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: The kicker there was the league bought a seventeenth game
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty for approximately one point six one point
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: seven billion dollars over a ten year period. It was
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a game they had for free in twenty eleven. The
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: game of football. The reason I wrote the book. It's
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: about power, and I think that at the end of
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the day, I never wanted a football book because I'm
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: not a football guy. I was. My high school coach
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: will tell you I was probably the worst high school
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: football player he's ever seen. But I wanted to write
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Turf Wars because it's about power.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: I love the header it says to fight for the
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: soul of America's game because I thought to myself, does
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: the NFL have a soul.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: The NFL does not have a soul. The players have
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: a soul, right, And the NFL is the largest, most unregulated,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: socialistic business in America. The NFL privatizes their wealth and
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: socializes their cost.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: So you think about stadiums, for example, every state and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: local government goes through a referendum to get taxpayers to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: pay for the owners stadium. We pay for it. He
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: keeps the profit. So would they do better than anybody
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: else in the country. There are no ten ks, there
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: are no ten qs, There is no annual report, there's
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: no public board of directors, there's no sec control, there's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: no attorney general control, there's no state attorney general control.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: They are a completely unregulated business. Up to a few
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: years ago, the NFL League Office was a five oh
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: one c six nonprofit. They're gonna do twenty five billion
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: dollars next year.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: How can a corporation like that be a nonprofit not
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: a corporation?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying, got time breakdown a little history, all right. So,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: first thing that happens in nineteen sixties, they have the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: AFL American Football League and the NFL. Those two entities merge, right,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: So think about it, like Low's and Home Depot. Right,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: if Loans and Home Depot merged, what would be the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: price of hammer five hundred dollars?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Because there's no competition In the nineteen sixties, That's exactly
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: what the NFL did. They became the merger of Low's
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and Home Depot. So they merged. The only way they
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: could merge was they needed special legislation from Congress, which
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: they got. So think about it. The taxpayers, who these
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: dudes are supposed to work for, allowed the NFL and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the AFL to merge, which basically meant they eliminated all
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: of the competition from now until the end of time.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: First thing that happened. Second, under the Sports Broadcasting Act,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: they also have the unique ability of negotiating singular television contracts.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So instead of the RAMS doing a TV contract, or
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the Patriot It's or anybody else, the NFL does one
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: big TV contract a year. Virtually nobody else can do that,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: So they've cornered the market on the merger, cornered the
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: market on media. At the end of the day, all
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of the teams are not corporations. They are LLC's and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: LLPs limited liability partnerships. So you know, my job is
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to audit the teams, which you know gave me an
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: ulcer and you know, got me addicted to Johnny Walker Blue.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: But you think of those corporations, you take something like
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys, there is no one singular Dallas Cowboy entity.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: They're made up of dozens of little LLPs and LLCs.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: They loan money to each other, they borrow from each other,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: they pay each other. So the way this thing works
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: from a tax liability standpoint is that they do everything right.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You know what they pay in taxes at the end
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: of the year. Yeah, so they're not a corporation. They
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: don't file anything public. Make it even crazier, you cannot
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: find an audited financial statement for any NFL team or
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the NFL as it exists. They do not create audited
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: financial statements because they don't want anyone to know.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: So when they put those numbers out and they say, hey,
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: we made this year this amount this year, that's just
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: something they're throwing out there.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: There's just something they're throwing out there. And you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and look, I like magazines like Fortune that do the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: valuations of teams that's not based on any audited financial statement.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, the only people who audit them is the
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: NFL Players Association, and we can't talk about how much money.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: I always wanted to know what a player is. There
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: certain things that they cannot give a certain player, like,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: for instance, let's say I don't want to say I'll
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: use Lebron James, right. I know it's not the same sport.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: But let's say I wanted Lebron to stay on my
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: team right right now, he's probably the biggest player, biggest draw.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Could they Could they give Lebron a percentage of a team?
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: No? Why is not? Because I like Michael Jordan.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you ask about I'm.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Trying to play, Yeah, who has the leveraged.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Patrick Mahomes, Pat Trady or Brady Tom Tom somebody like that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Would they give a percentage?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Because they would?
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: They would? They is a different question. I think the
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: answer is no. No team wants to give a player
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a share of the team because no team wants to
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: give up that control. Right. But to your question, can
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: they pay them that if the player demanded No, because
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: that would be a violation of the salary cap. So
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the way the salary cap work, I mean, I'll make
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: it really simple. You take all of the revenue that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: you generate in in sport. Players get about fifty percent
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: of that revenue, that all, and then you divide that
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: by thirty two teams. That's salary cap. Which it's not
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: that complicated. If you gave an individual player a certain
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: ownership interest in the team, that would be a violation
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: of the salary cap rules. And here's why.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: And wouldn't all the owners have to agree on it?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, all the owners.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Would have to agree on it, and they never would
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: like you got to play it like Brady right and
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: said Brady says.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I want to I want to leave New England.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Can't do it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: They said, you know what would give you one percent
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: of the team.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Can't disdain he can't do it. I mean, look, if
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the players wanted to negotiate a new CBA and made
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and made that, you know, something that the players would
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: want more power to them. I think it would be uh.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I would think it would be a bigger fight than
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: you saw Kaepernick deal with because none of the players.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: You know, again, these are for the most part, these
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: teams fall into two big categories. Either they are family
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: owned teams. You know, the Rooneyes, the Maras, the Hunts,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: or it's a set of owners who made some outside
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: money and they bought a team and they're generating money
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: for their own They do not want to share anything, right.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll give you the best example. There is
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: no NFL team in the country that couldn't give their
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: city a percentage of the team if they wanted taxpayers
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: to help pay them for a stadium. Think about San Diego.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: A few years ago, they wanted to stay in San Diego,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: they put up a referendum to see if taxpayers would
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: pay for a new stadium. Taxpayers, overwhelmingly in San Diego
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: said nah, we don't want to use our tax money
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: for a new stadium. So the Chargers left and went
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to Los Angeles. The only thing Dean Spanos had to
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: do if he really wanted to stay in San Diego,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: if he put his money where his mouth is and said,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I want the fans of San Diego to love us.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I love the city of San Diego. The only thing
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: he had to do was to do what you asked
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: about Lebron. He could have gone to the city of
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: San Diego and said, hey, look, I want taxpayer revenue
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: to build a stadium. Here's what I'll do. I'll give
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the city of San Diego five percent of the team,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and the Medisons will own part of the churches. Did
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: you do that, No.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Some type of structure like that.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: They have a different structure the city and shareholders own
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: on the team. And you know why that happened, right,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: because it's all history and I'm just I'm just a
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: dork at the end of the day. Right. So, you know,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: back in the day, you know, you had all of
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: these teams based in these traditional textile cities, you know,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Kansas City, Green Bay, you know, Chicago, Pittsburgh. I mean,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: these are working class towns that I'm not knocking any
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: any of those cities, but those cities did not become
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Boston, and in Atlanta or certainly New York. Right.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So you've got a little team in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Green Bay, Wisconsin. Everybody there knew that if we don't
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: figure out something to try to keep this team in
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Green Bay, this team is going to another place. And
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: this is before this is Beforeville, this is before expansion
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: teams anywhere else. Yeah, So the deal was they figured
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: out a way of woe. We will give you everything
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you want for a new stadium. But here's here's the pull.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: We want the city to own the stadium and own
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the team. And they said yes. But from the day
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: green Bay was the green Bay Packers went to a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: public ownership, how many teams followed that model to stay
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: in their traditional city? Not one pure greed, pure greed
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and pure control. Right, And so you know, look, I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to write this book. Again, I'm not a football guy.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I wanted to write this book because the way that
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the NFL is run is the way that our country
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: is run.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Down. I'm here for that.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: If you if you looked behind the current president's inauguration,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: who was standing behind him? All the rich billionaire guys. Right,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: it is about control over money. If you have control,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you will have the money for us to figure out
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: a way how to get back to a system that
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: truly represents us, to have congressmen and congressomomen who truly
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: represent us. We all have to understand that this is
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: all about power. It has it is, yes, I get it.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Everybody wants to focus on money. It's about control and power.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And if you are either unwilling or unable to go
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: ten toes to the line to confront power like a
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: player's union did for fifteen years. You're just gonnat your
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: ass beat and the reality is man, you can I
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: love the eight years of Obama, but everything from the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: middle end of his term until now. We lost the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: women's right to abortion, we have lost the Voting Rights Act.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: We have lost the ability needs to control redistricting and
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: jerrymandering in state houses DC. My home city is a
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: home city that's got the National Guard patrolling. Let's get
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: it clear. They're only patrolling the safe areas in DC.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Let's not get it twisted right. They're not in The
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: National Guard is not in Southeast.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Where I grew up.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Really, they're downtown at Union Station happening. I mean, unless
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: somebody drops an ice cream cone, you know. But again,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: you know, you're looking at a president that literally federalized
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the occupation of the nation's capital, and that's where I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: grew up, that's where my parents grew up. But this
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: is a president and a party that has run rough
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: shod and I'm a Democrat. They have run rough shot
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: over the Democratic Party for the last fifteen to twenty years.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It's been a blow up.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Been a blowout, and my critique of the Democratic Party
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: a misunderstanding of power. These people are not to be
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: negotiated with. They are not to be trusted. You cannot
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: sit there and decide that you are going to make
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: some sort of agreement with them and expect for them
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to hold up their side of the agreement. They're not
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: going to do it.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: We magic question if the Democrats based off this analogy
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: are the players and the Republicans are the owners.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Who's the NFLPA.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: NFLPA is the players, NFL YEAHA is a union man
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of Democrats in this situation. Democrats in this situation. I mean,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: it's it's put it this way. I mean, I had
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: a rough fight over fifteen years. I mean everything from
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the Flategate to ray Rice to cap to COVID. I'm
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: not saying we won every fight, but we fought every fight.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And you lose one of the fights, you don't want
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: to fight.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: The Republicans, that definitely don't.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And I think in this analogy, at the end of
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: the day, look, I don't have any friends at the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: nationale Football League. I Am not going to get a
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: holiday gift from any one of these I know it's
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: a family show, so I keep it clean. I'm not
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: gonna have any family show from these mfs. I mean
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I was gonna. You know, my mom might be listening.
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: She's like, normally I would go Look, I go with
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: Harbor with our guys, right, because hard with our.
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: Good God, like, are you drinking?
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's in this. No, I go hard
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: with our guys because look, our guys come into the
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: NFL system believing that because they are one of the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: top two hundred and fifty guys that make it to
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: the league every year when they walk across the stage
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: at the draft, it always boiled my blood that our
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: dudes hugged Roger Goodell like he gave them some shit.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: They didn't earn it.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the only reason you were on the stage is
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: you were one of the top two hundred and fifty guys.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: He didn't give you anything, So shake his fucking hand
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: like a grown ass man, right, and then walk away.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I worked for big law firms.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: They gave me.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I got great jobs. There. There was a
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: day and I didn't walk in and hug the managing
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: partner like he gave me some stuff. I think you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: have a misunderstanding of power and a misunderstanding that these
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: people are out to blow us out.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: How did you look at Roger Goodett? Did you look
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: at him as moyal but an outlier adversary.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Pure ass adversary. Wow, I mean, look Roger, I mean he.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: He's there to protect the owners basically.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: That's not even basically. I mean he the commissioner is
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: a myth. So they created this title called commissioner way
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: back in the day because it makes us think, Oh,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the dude's in the middle and he's just making sure
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that football is good for the players and football is
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: good for the good for the owners. No, Roger gets
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: paid sixty three million dollars a year sixty four. I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: mean he may have gotten the bonus. I don't know.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't get you, and I know I
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: know when we do have lunch, he buys. So No,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: he gets paid sixty three sixty four million dollars to
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: represent the interest of the owners and a plane for life.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not even mad about the money, is the plane.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing where you're.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: Like Jesus, No football him to be objective about players.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: He's not paid to be an Are you able to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: beat his?
• 20:52
  Speaker 7: Well, were you able to beat his honest when you
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: were in your role.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I cannot get a gif. I came from
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: out of football. Just background for me. I was a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: homicide prosecutor for eight years in DC. After that I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: went to a big law firm. I didn't have anything
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: to do with sports when I got elected into the job.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So I came after a you know what I consider
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: a legend, a guy named Gene Upshaw who was the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: former executive director. But Jean died in the job. You know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: he went into the hospital on a Wednesday and died
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: on a Sunday. And you know I ran against two
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: former NFLPA presidents and you know I won. They didn't.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: So I always took the job from a standpoint of
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I never looked for an NFL job. I never wanted
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: to work for a team. I don't need anything from
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the owners. I wasn't there to become your friend. So
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I know how to do one thing. I know how
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: to do war right, and I know how to how
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I was hired at Latham and these big, big law
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: firms to basically represent the richest, biggest companies in the
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: world and do game strategy.
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: That's what I know how hard was it for you
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: navigating a Colin Kaepernick situation because people felt like y'all
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: were hands off.
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: You are very vocal, it seemed like you would be
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: hands off.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: But I wasn't hands off on that one. Yeah. You know,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: the first person to do an interview after Colin nelt
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: was me because I knew exactly how the league was
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: going to turn that story. And you know, I didn't
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: know that he was going to kneel. You know, it
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: was a preseason game, and I remember getting a call
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: from one of my PR guys that this is now
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: going to be a thing. It's going to be a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: thing tomorrow. So I gave an interview with the nation
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I think that night or that morning to frame this
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: is why he's kneeling, and this is why he's doing it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: But I also knew in a heartbeat that again going
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: back to this power man, once the league realized that
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: this is an individual player making a political statement that
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: is rooted in history and rooted in fact, I knew
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: in a nanosecond that they were going to come after
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: him and come after anybody who supported him. That's just
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the way they played the game, right And so for me,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I go into game mode, you know, first,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: make sure that the message is out there in two.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: If there ever comes a day when we believe that
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: he is going to be blackballed for what he's doing,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: that's why we joined his lawyers and we sued the
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: National Football League for blackballer.
• 23:23
  Speaker 8: I know you talk about it in your book a bit,
• 23:25
  Speaker 8: but do you feel like he was black.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Ball one hundred percent? I mean, look at I don't
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: want to say anything that gets a whole bunch of
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: other quarterbacks mad at me. But in the year that
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Colin wasn't signed other than the top five quarterbacks in
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the league, you know at that time, and I'm just
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: talking about everybody from from Braiding, from Brady to Aaron Rodgers,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: everybody in the middle, Breeze, Pat Peyton, everybody. Colin was
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: one of the top ten quarterbacks in the league. I
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: mean everybody there were. There were a bunch of other
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: guys who had jobs, quarterback jobs. I don't think it's
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: close that he was better than fifty percent of the
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: starting quarterbacks in the National Football League at the time.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: When he worked out with the Raiders are when I know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: when Rock Nation had put together the workout that he
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: was supposed to go to, but then he went somewhere else.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: You the one in it, Yeah, the tryout in it
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think of those two situations? They
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: were just for shore or Hey.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Look, I nobody was more stunned than me that he
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: didn't go through with that tryout in Atlanta. I know
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that there was a fight over some waiver or or
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: something like that. But you know, there were a bunch
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of college scouts there, I'm sorry, a bunch of pro
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: scouts there. Sorry about that pro scouts there, and he decided,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: you know, for his own reasons, that that he wasn't
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: going to throw that day. That that surprised me. He
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: had disappointed me.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: He just went up the.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Road he did.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: He went to a high school, high.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: School where all the all the all the scouts want.
• 25:08
  Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, and again I just can't be blunt, right,
• 25:13
  Speaker 9: But there were also dudes catching for him that day
• 25:15
  Speaker 9: who were looking for jobs to They didn't go to.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: The houschol got you got you got you got, you
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: got you.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: So look, the you lose one hund of the fights,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: you don't fight, right. If if I would have had
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to wave way to a magic Wand would I have
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: wanted him to go throw that day and in front
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: of a bunch of scouts and show off that freakin'
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: arm and show off you know, his feet and his footwork.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: Yes, you go to be hard to keep him out
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: of the league after that if he had a good show.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, because I think the pressure shifts, right. I mean,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: everybody was there in Atlanta. Press was there, scouts are there. Man,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: he is going to do well. And it is, at
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: least from the way that I look at the game strategy,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: it becomes incredibly hard from that moment for the league
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to continue to hold him out of the league when
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: you've got thirty some odd scouts there, the media is there,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and he does well. I mean I just look at
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: pressure points, right. That puts the maximum amount of pressure
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: on the league at that moment. And what I have
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: loved to see him go through that process. Yeah.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: But you know what, man, you know from your standpoint,
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: And I just got a couple of questions about Theavnick situation.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: Why why him though, because he wasn't the only player kneeling,
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: so he was.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: The guy that started it. So you know, if you're
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: reading the you know and again, I just I'm just
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a war guy. If you know, whether it's you know,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the Art of War or Machiavelli's Treatise on War, you know,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: there isn't a warrior campaign in the world that doesn't
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: try to kill the League general, right, And nobody really
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: wants to talk about it that way. But I don't
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: care what war you have ever waged, or whatever war
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: any country has ever waged from literally the beginning of time.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: If you get an opportunity to kill the general, you
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: kill the general. And I think that the League took
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to turn its guns fully on Kaepernick because
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it was a hope, and I think it was misguided.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I think it was a hope that if they show
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: the rest of the players that they can control what
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: happens to somebody with a loud voice, If they can
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: control someone who looks like they might be bigger than
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the league, what do they do. They send a message
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to that guy you and they say, oh no, no, no,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: we can control and put a bullet and you, And
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: that's a message to everybody else.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think it did it from Neil.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: No, it didn't. And and honestly I thought that was
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: one of the That was one of the best times,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: one of the few great times that I had in
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the job, because guys responded to that in a way.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm always looking for guys to be to have a
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: lettle of solidarity between them. And I mean, the owners
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: are serial killers, Let's not again. They are absolute killers.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: And for the union to survive, forget us winning, for
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: us to just survive, we need more solidarity on our
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: side than you do with the owners. And that's what
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: you saw with our guys. And then that you know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that night after the President gave that speech in Huntsville,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: you know where he called and said, you know, wouldn't
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: it be great if every owner right? I mean, I
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: am sure that he did not understand that he called
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: every NFL player's mothers.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Son of a bitch.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, from where we come from, you
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: can say a lot of things. You get to that point,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: there is going to be a laying of hands on
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: you when you say. And I think when the Republicans
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: woke up that morning and realized that even Trump had
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: gone over the line by calling players mothers a bitch.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: And that was the weekend you saw every player kneel.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I mean I talk about it in the book. I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: flew to watch the Cowboys play, not because I'm a
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Cowboys fan. I went, we can go look. I mean
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that Michael Parsons thing work. I mean, you don't have
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to talk about it.
• 29:42
  Speaker 10: Okay, I don't know, you know, Okay, sharp objects, you
• 29:52
  Speaker 10: said that we that you went because.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I knew Jerry's team was gonna kneel. And you know,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Jerry had come out and said, nobody's kneeling on my
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: team because that's the way that he believes in control.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I knew his team was gonna kneel, and I wanted
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: to see what he was gonna do.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: He moved his.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Self from the end of the line to the middle
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: of the line and knelt because for the only time
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: that he has run that team, he understood the difference
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: between being on the train or being in front of
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: the train, and he chose to be on the train
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: because his guys decided as a group of men this
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: and I was proud of him. But that's the job, right.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Another question, because y'all see you got with Colin's lawyers
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: and you sewed the NFL.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a settlement.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Do you think that's when leverage was lost. Was that
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: the right thing to do except to settlement?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so we represented him with his lawyers.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: His lawyers did the settlement. We didn't. I didn't know
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: about the settlement. I woke up and saw it on
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the news.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Oh so the NFLV he didn't even know about it.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: No, that doesn't make since welcome to part of my job.
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: That's how people were confused about it. I saw. I
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: was saying with the hands on, hands off things.
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: People were confused where y'all stood because things were happening
• 31:07
  Speaker 8: and y'all and.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It's hard because you know, again, you know, I'm a lawyer,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: and lawyers have attorney client privilege. I didn't know about
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: the settlement. The NFL paid did not know about the settlement.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: We woke up and found out about it that morning,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and as a result, it dismissed our part of the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: case against the league. That's the way it happens. He
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: has the right to do that. He has the right
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: to be represented by his own lawyers. Fine. At the
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: same time, you know, I always tried to not second
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: guest lawyers, you know, because I'm not there. I don't
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: know what the terms of the settlement were I don't
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: know how much money exchanged hands. I wasn't involved in negotiations,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna I'm not going to second guess
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: another lawyer, but I will say this, the nflpa's job
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: is to protect players, and again, I only know one
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: way of doing that, and that is to start off
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: at one hundred miles an hour and go to one
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty and if there's something in the way,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: you run over it. We were more interested in the
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: facts of who made the decision to black ball a quarterback,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: a black quarterback of the National Football League. I'm interested
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: in what's in your phone. I'm interested in what emails
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: you're sending. I'm interested because I get all of that
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: in discovery, right, just like the you know, the collusion
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: lawsuit that I filed against the players after Deshaun Watson.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I filed that lawsuit before I left. I wasn't there
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: for the ruling, But the reason I filed that lawsuit is, Man,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: we're looking for the truth because the truth gives us
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the ability to fight the control right. So my job
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in any callue usion lawsuit, man, I'm going hard and
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: there's nothing to settle for the for the right.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: So once you take all that money, you you you
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: waive all the rights to set the discovery and everything.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: It's like you don't care about you don't care about
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: the actual issue anymore.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: You never got it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Okay, So I'm not second guessing anyone, but we're all
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: you all on the same.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Page about that.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Obviously, not anybody read the book. Yeah, there's stuff that
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to avoid saying saying because I had conversations
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: with their side of the lawyer. So I can't divulge anything.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: But I can tell you that I woke up and
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: found out about the settlement from I think ESPN le.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Me, what were your thoughts on the way to handle
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: the Sanders young man control same situation?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think that would think about?
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Look, I don't know what happened, you know, I borrow
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: this line from from James Baldwin all the time. I
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: don't know if in your heart you're a racist, but
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I see what you do. Right. So I look at
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: the way in which a young black man knelt during
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a preseason game and the league turned. I believe every
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: gun that they had on Colin Kaepernick. And again, let's
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: be clear, he didn't interrupt a game. He didn't kneel
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: on the field, he didn't stop the game in any way.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: This was all before the game, right, So no one
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: can make an argument to me like they did during
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: anthem that well, you know, d this is impacting you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: the economics of the game, or this is impacting football. No,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: even if it's during the national anthem, this is before
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the game, right. And I got to sit in the stands.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I look, I watch guys in the in the stands
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: during the national anthem, buying another beer, swinging another beer.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: You go to Baltimore in the middle of the national anthem,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: they yell, oh in favor of the Baltimore Orioles. If
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you're going to say that that's disrespectful for him kneeling,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: it's disrespectful. Just as respectful for you to say something
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: about the Baltimore Orioles during the national anthem. But I
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: don't see anybody you know, pulling down or turning guns
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: on dudes on that. They went after Colin because he
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: was iconic and they were afraid that what he was
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: doing would lead to other people doing things and they
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: would lose control. Then you get to the shod right,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just being nice on the But
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: then you get to Shud and again I wasn't. Nobody
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: invites me into the draft rooms. But I asked myself
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: a pretty simple linear question, is is he better than
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Johnny Manziel Chadar Sanders.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Johnny Manziel, Yes in college? Come on, l was a
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: beast in college.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Now come on, man like he? I mean, I like
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Johnny Manziel. I mean, yeah, Johnny Zelle's two people. If
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you put them side by side. As far as who
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: is more likely to be a pro caliber quarterback, Chadur
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: beats him to death. Right, it's inexplicable for him to
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: fall as far as he did in the draft. You
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: think about the number of quarterbacks that the NFL owners
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: pull off of the draft line. He was predictable first
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: round pull So so every other prognosticator is wrong and
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the NFL is right. No, that doesn't make any sense.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I just go back to the number of quarterbacks that
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: they pulled off that line. After you get to the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: middle of the second round. Every one of those quarterbacks
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: that you pulled off the line, I would have taken
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Chador over any one of those dudes. So I find
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: it inexplicable except for one thing of why he would
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: drop so far in the draft on the draft side,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: because remember, think about it, you draft this guy, you
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: know he still doesn't make the team. Right. I find
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: it inexplicable that a person of his caliber, the things
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: that he was able to accomplish in college, for him
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: to drop as far as he did in the draft round.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: I agree with that. I disagree with the Johnny Manziel comparison.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: Like Johnny Menzel was a beast, he won the Heisman Trophy,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: Like Johnny was different college.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: It's something to pros, right, But there's a lot of
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: dudes in who do well in college. I guess we're
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: you know, we agree to disagree, But here I think
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: we can agree on there's only a lot of guys
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: who perform in a college system whose size and skill
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: will not make them terribly successful in the pro system.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that when you look at the arm
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: strength and the size of Shador and what he was
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: able to demonstrate in college, both with his feet and
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: his ability to his ability to throw just crazy right,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: what he was able to do in college mimicked what
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I thought he should be able to do. In the
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: National Football League. But fine, we can disagree about all that.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I keep coming back to this guy dropped so far
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: in the draft despite everybody rating him at a much
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: higher level, and.
• 38:35
  Speaker 8: Also the people like that. I think people were awaiting
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: like his debut. I think he was two point two
• 38:39
  Speaker 8: million views.
• 38:40
  Speaker 7: It was the But doesn't so he plays well? We
• 38:45
  Speaker 7: know that, right.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: But his third scring on the Browns right now is
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: how much.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: You know Spring on the Browns right now?
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I guess what I would say is there are.
• 38:59
  Speaker 8: I'm sorry, I was just asking how much does that matter?
• 39:02
  Speaker 8: Like because no one wanted to see him.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: None to an NFL scout, NFL coach, you know, quarterback,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: quarterback coach, man, they don't care about likes man. They
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: care about whether you can deliver the ball in a
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: in a three x three box with you run and right,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: throwing right, and whether or not you can throw that
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: ball on a line for thirty yards. That's what they
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: care about it. That's all they care about. My point is,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: coming out of college, when you take all of the
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: predictors about Shador, did all of those predictive qualities point
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: to him going higher than when he came out. Yes,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: and again I don't know, but I do know one thing.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: There is not an NFL owner that liked the way
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: in which he carried himself in college. That is not
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: That is not their vibe.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Right. It's so interesting about this conversation.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: And I feel like, and I'm just going back to
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: this because I feel like, if Colin Kaepernick hadn't to
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: settle and went through with the collusion, and you're all
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: able to get these emails and everything else, improve who
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: was doing what? Owners would never be able to collude
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: against the player like they did sh your door ever
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: again it was president.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Or they would never be able to collude against players
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: like we found out in the most recent lawsuit. No,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: this was I fouled the lawsuit against the National Football
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: League that they were colluding against players getting free agent contracts. Wow,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I'll file that in twenty twenty two or twenty three.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I was gone by the time the arbitrator ruled on
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: the case. And not throw any shade on my successor.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: But it's easy. Well, facts, man, Facts hurt. And so
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it's still mind boggling to me my successor,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: who's gone now decided that they would enter into a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: secret agreement with the league and not tell the players
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: about the result of the lawsuit. And for whatever reason,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: my successor told the players that the players lost the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: collusion lawsuit that I filed, when in reality, the arbitrator
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: found that the management council that runs the National Football
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: League colluded and told teams not to urge teams not
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to give guaranteed contracts to players. Now, that's something that
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I would have told the players, because first of all,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: they're entitled to know. And second, as soon as you
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: as soon as I would have found out that the owners,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the owners who run the league, you know, Craft, Jones,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Mara Rooney, all of those guys are on their executive committee.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Once I would have found out that those people told
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: the teams to not do guarantee contracts, I sue on
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: behalf of every player going back to twenty fifteen. That's
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: what I would have done, because look, you lose one
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: hundred percent of the fights. You never fight.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: So when you find out the owners of colluding to
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: what happens, I don't well if.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: In this case the conen for the for the owners,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: it could be could be cataclysmic. I mean, think about it,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: if if there were a player who I'm just gonna
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: try to make the math eas Let's just do Lamar,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: you know, if Lamar or Russell Wilson or any of
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: these guys, the young man in San Diego, Herbert, sorry,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the Chargers Herbert. Let's just say that he wants a
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: fully guaranteed contract, and just to make the math easy,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: he wants a fully guaranteed contract at three hundred million,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and the owner only gives him a contract of one
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million guaranteed. Theoretically, your damages are between
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million and three hundred million that
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: he didn't get times every player that didn't get a
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: fully guaranteed contract. So you know, historically, if you think
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: about the one of the reasons the Major League Baseball
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Union became so powerful. Yes, they went through a strike
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four, but what really broke the owners
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: in the eighties and the nineties, the baseball owners they
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: lost collusion cases lost them. And how it's.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Billions, so cabinet could have started president.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Anyway, read the book to make I'm not trying to,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: It's ain't even about him. This is about how that
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: president could have been started to take these owners.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Because it's about the strategy of power.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: Yes, because you're writing the book. Owners aren't stupid. Morons
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: on occasion, but not stupid. They realized long ago that
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: a single massive army is more powerful than thirty two
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: regional ones, especially while fending off an attack. And it
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: made me think about it, because you can have all
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: the money in the world, but if their unity and
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: group operation.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent, that keeps them in one hundred percent. Man,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: you want to be the next executive director of the NFL. No,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I guess I had to do a pitch too much.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Pick up the Thank you appreciate it, you do.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: Bill Simmons podcast, Man, I would love to, Yeah, I
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: would love to.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I would love to think y'all have a great column.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: We love to turn for wars.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: DeMarcus Smith, thank you for having tomorrow drow d.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Just tomorrows. Yeah. My mom, my mom wanted to call
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: me Lot Cannard or my dad did, but thank god,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: thank god, my mother stepped in.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: My name is Lenard. That's close.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but Lot Connard is the duck. Yeah, that would
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: have been a little bit rough.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Would you look like a duck when you was born?
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: As damn that. I just the man. It went from.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: We were on such a when he was born.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, you know what, he's man.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: He's mad about the cowboys thing.
• 45:01
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so salty, and so she was gonna name you Lochannard.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: She was My dad wanted to name me Locknard. My
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: mother was like, uh no.
• 45:11
  Speaker 11: Yeah, Lenard means clown, so yeah, real crazy. We appreciate you,
• 45:18
  Speaker 11: but you guys, what just means what I.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Went show.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you brother, the Breakfast Club this morning.
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: Every day.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: A week ago, click your ass up. The Breakfast Club
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: finished