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Beyond Words: Nima Abu Wardeh's Secrets to Impactful Communication for Career Success · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: I'm a working mom with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:43
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• 0:49
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• 0:50
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• 0:57
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• 1:07
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• 1:10
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• 1:17
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• 1:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hi Nima, thank you so much for joining me on today's podcast, where we're going to be talking all about communication and how communication is our currency to a more fulfilled and happy career and life.
• 2:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 2:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's brilliant to be here.
• 2:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yay, I know.
• 2:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: As we were talking before we hit record, you said that you don't like the word confidence, and I was really intrigued by that.
• 2:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I was like that's the first time I've heard somebody say that, so I'd be really interested to know why you don't like the word confidence because I find it can be weaponized meaning that people say things like oh, you know, that person isn't going to get that position or that thing that they're after because they don't have the confidence for the whatever.
• 2:43
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But nobody actually defines what confidence means for that person and why.
• 2:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know what's the specific detail.
• 2:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Why did you turn me down?
• 2:51
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What is it that you want me to be doing differently?
• 2:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So that's what I mean by weaponized meaning.
• 2:56
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's a decision somebody can make, people can make, and it keeps you down, holds you back.
• 3:03
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's one.
• 3:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Two okay, what is confidence?
• 3:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know what is it?
• 3:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's different things to different people.
• 3:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's the other thing with this word.
• 3:10
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So I'm not going to go into you know various definitions, but I like to break things down.
• 3:16
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'm a practical person.
• 3:17
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I don't like BS and I don't like it when people say big words and don't define them or enable the person they're speaking with to do something with it or about it.
• 3:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So what is confidence?
• 3:30
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Do you want to know how I define constructing confidence?
• 3:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I mean talking to you.
• 3:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: You seem like a very confident person.
• 3:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: That would be how I would describe you, and I would mean it as a compliment.
• 3:43
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Absolutely I mean.
• 3:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, don't get me wrong, we know that's the thing, we have a feeling.
• 3:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: We know what we mean when we say confidence in this context, right?
• 3:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So I'm not somebody who is shy, I'm not somebody who is confused about what I want to get across, for example.
• 3:59
  Nima Abu Wardeh: These are examples of how something could be.
• 4:01
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, this person is confident, but the problem is when it's the keeping somebody back because they don't have it.
• 4:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's the issue, right?
• 4:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, for example, executives who want the next role, who are up for promotion, who are up for leading a project, the idea of confidence is really important, isn't it?
• 4:21
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And so, really, I suppose my message is two things.
• 4:24
  Nima Abu Wardeh: One, we kind of know what confidence is when we see it, but when it's used against someone, it's about, it's not about having a confrontation, it's about asking, inquiring.
• 4:35
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What do you mean by that?
• 4:42
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Can you define, can you give me a specific thing that you made?
• 4:43
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You make this decision about me?
• 4:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Right, that's one thing.
• 4:45
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But really, if we were to strip away, if we were to look at the elements of what I call confidence, right, there are three C's.
• 4:51
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So my thing is, I have my three C's which construct confidence, and they are credibility, being comfortable with who you are, what you do, how you get across things and being consistent.
• 5:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Do you want me to very briefly go.
• 5:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think so.
• 5:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, and I think this is where a lot of people maybe get concerned that they don't have.
• 5:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: They worry, you know they will take in a big imposter syndrome and be into workplace and think they're not credible and that will feed them into their performance and how they come across.
• 5:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, Brilliant if you break it down.
• 5:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Okay, so first of all, I work with people who have credibility at the core.
• 5:26
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's a really important thing, because without that, my reputation is shot.
• 5:31
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Their reputation is definitely shot, you know, when they're found out.
• 5:33
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So credibility is really important Because what is credibility?
• 5:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: Because I think that's it, because people get a new job and they and it's like you know if we're bringing it down to a job they maybe feel they don't have the track record yet to be credible.
• 5:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So exactly that.
• 5:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: To that point, when I think about credibility, it there are two parts to it.
• 5:53
  Nima Abu Wardeh: One is what do I know and do now?
• 5:57
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So the now me, okay, what do I know because I've done it, my experience, my lived reality of the work I've delivered and the experiences I've had and the learnings that have come about right.
• 6:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So that's a huge part of credibility.
• 6:12
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And I say part of because sometimes in certain roles you need to have specific qualifications.
• 6:17
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And I say qualifications like that because sometimes letters you know after your name.
• 6:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's not an indication of being credible, it's an indication of being qualified in the system, right.
• 6:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So credibility is slightly different to that, because it means that you have the knowledge, the know-how, the ability to be it and do it right.
• 6:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But it's also about future.
• 6:40
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You, for example, now you is in a certain role and you really want that other thing, that next success, next thing for yourself, and you're thinking, oh, I want that thing.
• 6:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Okay, what do I do?
• 6:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Maybe you've been turned down for a role, maybe you're too scared to apply for it in the first place, whatever that thing is.
• 6:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And it's the idea of do you believe that you are a brilliant choice for that next role If you don't break it down.
• 7:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What's the reason?
• 7:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If anything to do with credibility, example, oh, I need to have this experience first, I need to have that thing.
• 7:15
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So that's the nuts and bolts of credibility.
• 7:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Go and get that right, but also be it Meaning.
• 7:24
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I worked with somebody once and I loved what she did.
• 7:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She was really frustrated.
• 7:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She brilliant woman in STEM, she had to, so she was.
• 7:33
  Nima Abu Wardeh: There was a layer between her.
• 7:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I think he was the director or the chairman, I can't remember, but the top level, right, and she wanted the next thing for herself.
• 7:42
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She didn't want to be stuck in this role.
• 7:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So she actually went to LinkedIn and she wrote down in her profile something like the next blah, blah.
• 7:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, like it was the next level up, right.
• 7:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So she owned it.
• 7:53
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She said I want to be this next, and here's what I know about it.
• 7:59
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And her posts were about her thoughts.
• 8:02
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So she was creating thought leadership pieces, kind of.
• 8:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But just actually her experience, her interactions, her thoughts within the workspace, within her industry and within the things that she was doing.
• 8:12
  Nima Abu Wardeh: For example, she was at an exhibition.
• 8:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I remember one time she posted and it was her take on the niche that she wanted to move forward in right.
• 8:21
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So do you see that's quite a bit.
• 8:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: Do you know what it reminds me of?
• 8:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: I've just read a book all about manifestation and there's a lady that I follow online called nor hibbert, and then she's on.
• 8:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's like isn't it's manifesting, it's like I want to be this, and then actually all the steps to get there yeah, which as long for me.
• 8:37
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I don't know enough about manifestation to be brutally honest, and because some people say I remember somebody saying to me you know, if I think it and I put a thing up and it'll happen.
• 8:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I don't agree with that.
• 8:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I believe you need to actually do something about it.
• 8:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, but she sounded like she'd done it, hadn't she?
• 8:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Which is exactly it.
• 8:56
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So she sat and it was a deliberate decision.
• 8:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What does she want for her next self?
• 9:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Her future self, which could be six months, three days or six years Right, and instead of waiting for permission.
• 9:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Next self, her future self, which could be six months, three days or six years right, and instead of waiting for permission.
• 9:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So I believe in permission, free versus permission, meaning there are gatekeepers all around us, right?
• 9:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, so if you've got a gatekeeper, could be hr, it could be yourself.
• 9:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think that's a big one yourself actually yeah, but it's the idea of.
• 9:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So let's remove self for a moment, because that is a big thing, right?
• 9:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So look at the gatekeepers around you and it could be as simple as I want people to know me for this thing that I love doing and I want to do more of.
• 9:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Maybe you're starting up your own business, or you want to be known as an expert in an area, something like that, so you don't need somebody's permission to share your credibility and your knowledge around that, especially.
• 9:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You mentioned LinkedIn, especially on a platform like LinkedIn, right?
• 9:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So it's about how do I let the right people for me know about me and what I bring to the table?
• 10:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, you can do it permission free.
• 10:03
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You don't need somebody's permission.
• 10:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It could be as simple as but I know it can be terrifying, by the way as hosting a q, a session on linkedin once a week, once a month, something like that to build up your credibility footprint.
• 10:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I call it.
• 10:15
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, how did we get onto this?
• 10:17
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Oh, confidence.
• 10:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, the three, c's what you said made and so we've done credibility, but I, I literally like taking us.
• 10:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: I'm like I love this, it's such good advice.
• 10:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, and I think it will definitely have to revisit this, because it's this bravery, isn't it being brave?
• 10:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: And you know, and it's not easy, even to post on something actually that's quite fake, could be quite a faceless, you know, platform.
• 10:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: It isn't really.
• 10:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: But like LinkedIn, you know you could post and run away and, you know, not go back onto it the next week.
• 10:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wouldn't advise that, but it does take a lot of courage yeah.
• 10:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The other thing, of course, is that you might, you know, just as a caution, when, when you post something, if it's not what you want to be known for, or if some of you don't stand by, remove it, because even if you don't post for many months or weeks, if somebody really wants to check you out, they can find that and they can, you know, draw conclusions or get a feel for you and it might not be the truth of your current you right.
• 11:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah.
• 11:15
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So yeah, but absolutely to the idea of brave.
• 11:17
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, my big desire is to enable people to invent their version of success, and the common thread between the people that I have in my circle and people I love being around and working with is people who are brave enough, because it is brave, to invent their version of success.
• 11:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It doesn't mean that it always happens.
• 11:35
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Oh, it just happened because I wanted it.
• 11:38
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's about actually having the gumption to sit with yourself and figure out what's going to break you, what's going to not break you, and because usually when we have a to-do list or a want list, it's huge, it's very long, but when you look at it from the perspective of what do I not want or what?
• 11:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What would break me?
• 11:56
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's a shorter one, right, and so that the word brave is really central to everything here and just for everybody hey, it's okay to be brave and scared at the same time.
• 12:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Oh, I love that it doesn't have to be one or the other, it's usually both together and you get less scared the more you do that thing.
• 13:02
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That is scary right?
• 13:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yes, absolutely.
• 13:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, if you take it back to the Q&A.
• 13:06
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I do LinkedIn Lives and oh gosh, I remember the first time I did them I was like it's, the tech works, even the live.
• 13:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know people watching, blah, blah, blah, whereas now you just don't think.
• 13:17
  Elizabeth Willetts: The more you do it, the easier it does get.
• 13:19
  Elizabeth Willetts: But then I'm doing something new in a couple of weeks that I am really nervous about.
• 13:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's great, yeah, so you know you need to put in your reps whatever that is.
• 13:26
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You need to put in your reps so it becomes second nature and you don't have that.
• 13:30
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It is terrifying.
• 13:32
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The interesting thing is that people don't remember.
• 13:36
  Nima Abu Wardeh: There's this thing you know the spotlight effect.
• 13:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Oh, like everybody's going to notice everything and they're going to remember everything I said and actually they won't.
• 13:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's really simple, they won't.
• 13:46
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And in fact, to bring it into the communication side, this is a really important thing to realize, which is that people won't remember everything you say.
• 13:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And if there's something important that you want to get across, you need to define it.
• 14:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You need to think to yourself what's the one thing?
• 14:02
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If people forget everything I say, what's the one thing I want them to remember and take away?
• 14:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And when you define that, that becomes the anchor.
• 14:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That is the thing that links whatever it is you're doing together beginning, middle end.
• 14:16
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You say it at the start, you say it at the end because you want to increase the chance of people remembering that one key, important thing.
• 14:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Now, it's not saying something that's important to you, by the way, it has to be something that's important to them, but how you are.
• 14:30
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The solution to that is how you link it together, right, yeah, so yeah, I mean that's a really important thing because people don't do this Right.
• 14:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So let's just finish the other two pieces.
• 14:41
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You've got the credibility piece the comfortable to come across as somebody who knows their stuff and embodies the knowledge and the track record and all these things.
• 14:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If you're not comfortable and it could be as simple as comfortable in what you're wearing, comfortable in what you're going to be sharing, comfortable in how you are, that takes away from your credibility.
• 15:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Right, and it's rubbish.
• 15:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It really is rubbish because it could be terrifying for somebody and then they could be sweating and salivating and it's not fair.
• 15:12
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But when I look across my career and dive into various things, being comfortable with yourself, if you were to give things waiting, meaning like, oh yeah, you know, let's score out of 10 and uh, how many points to go to credibility?
• 15:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: How many points to go to comfortable?
• 15:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Comfortable will have more points than credibility because people will make the assumption wow, that person's really comfortable with what they're doing and saying and how they are.
• 15:37
  Nima Abu Wardeh: They must really know their shit you know?
• 15:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: yeah, I do know what you mean.
• 15:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: Sometimes you get swept away with somebody, don't you that?
• 15:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: I know you're not particularly fond of the word, but overconfident.
• 15:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: You think they know what they're talking about.
• 15:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: And actually you know, when you watch tv programs and it's the quiet people you, you know, you're thinking like trade I've done.
• 15:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you watch traitors which is completely you it's like wink murder and they're trying to find who's the bad person murdering people.
• 16:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: And it's the loud people that are like swaying the room and it's the quiet ones that know what they're talking about.
• 16:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: No one's listening to them.
• 16:13
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's interesting because when it comes to leadership as well, of course there's this whole thing of leadership is about listening.
• 16:19
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, it is about listening, listening, feeling the nuance, that the energy, the vibe in the room.
• 16:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, so I'm with you, but yeah, so that's so comfortable is a really simple thing, are you comfortable?
• 16:29
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And but when it comes to women especially, I find I wonder if there's an extra layer, because women they're a lot.
• 16:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: They judge themselves and they judge each other.
• 16:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know can judge each other on about how particularly I think we are our own worst critics about how we look.
• 16:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: We think, oh, we put on weight.
• 16:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: And personally that does feed in into how I bring things into work.
• 16:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: No, I totally get that, and in fact, that's what I was going to say, which is that I find that, with being comfortable, when it comes to women, what women wear is key, and it starts from the feet up.
• 17:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'll give you an example.
• 17:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'm on stage, I'm calling up somebody who won an award and they had steps.
• 17:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: This is when you go oh, ping, ping, ping.
• 17:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Wow, why do they do that?
• 17:13
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Steps that lead up, no rail, right, she had shoes.
• 17:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She could not stand, let alone walk, and I'm not criticizing her, but what I'm saying is she then had to have some another, some one of the people backstage had to come and actually be her rail as she was escorted and what I'm.
• 17:32
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Why I'm saying this is because, for me anyway, this is again my definition of things.
• 17:37
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If you cannot literally carry yourself and be fidget free, right, fidget free, and it could be fidgeting with your hair, something, oh, you know something I do see a lot of people fidget with a pen, although I've got pens you know, but pens are kind of like cool sometimes.
• 17:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So if you look at photos of me, you'll see me I carry a pen, but I sort of use it as a pointer and a threatening tool.
• 18:01
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I think sometimes people go, but you know, but the it's the fidget, absolutely that not being comfortable with being still and with being in and with yourself.
• 18:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So with women.
• 18:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: This woman I know, head of marketing, huge global organization, and she had been on her feet for the whole day and she messaged me at the end saying her feet were bleeding because she'd been in these lovely looking shoes but they were the wrong.
• 18:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Do you see what I mean?
• 18:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I 100% see what you mean.
• 18:29
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, all of us, by the way, have done this.
• 18:31
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So I always carry a pair of trainers.
• 18:33
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'm wearing trainers.
• 18:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: At the moment, you know, loads of people come up to me and have shoe envy because I'm in my trainers.
• 18:40
  Nima Abu Wardeh: They're in uncomfortable shoes, even if it's men with, you know, very shiny tights.
• 18:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, so it's not actually dressing for success, it's actually dressing for comfort, absolutely, but you become successful when you're comfortable.
• 18:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Do you see?
• 18:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So the whole see thing, the comfortable.
• 18:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: Do you know what you made me feel better now?
• 18:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: Because I'll show you what I'm wearing.
• 18:56
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, oh, I love that yeah, oh, I love that I'm standing slippers, I love that, but this is it, you know, especially now with the whole virtual world.
• 19:06
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, do you, you do you?
• 19:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I was gonna.
• 19:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: I could have pretended I was in, like you know, big stilettos, but now I'm in slippers, really comfy shoe, really comfy trousers.
• 19:15
  Elizabeth Willetts: I've got dressing on on my knee because it's end of April but it's still cold crazy weather.
• 19:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, now I've got my red um, I like that it's more, because that is it.
• 19:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: There's quite a lot of pressure, isn't it, to dress quite corporate because you know the thing is it's about what you decide.
• 19:29
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So it's about being brave that word brave really important to decide what that is for you.
• 19:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, yes, I get the suits and blouses and whatever else that goes with that.
• 19:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: A clean look, let's call it a clean look yeah, and I mean we're fortunate I'm away from home.
• 19:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: I don't know where you're based, but you know you do have that.
• 19:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: But if you're in an office and everybody's in a suit, how do you sort of bring in your, or you have to wear a uniform?
• 19:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: really, if there's anything you spend on, it's the shoes.
• 19:57
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's my opinion, because it's his feet first.
• 20:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If your feet are okay, you are going to be okay in many ways because and it's not just the fact that your feet bleed if you're in these, you know uncomfortable, rubbing blisters and all that sort of stuff.
• 20:12
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's tiring, it's bad for your back, bad for your posture, and you lose your energy and you're again.
• 20:19
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You're not in your zone.
• 20:21
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know you're off balance, literally and metaphorically, slightly, with things like shoes that don't fit.
• 20:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Well, you can have a bit of a heel.
• 20:29
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'm not saying don't, but I'm just saying it's so important to get the shoes right.
• 20:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, for example, I have a program and one of the things is feel fit.
• 20:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Feel fit and flow, because it all flows from each other how you feel about yourself, what you're wearing and how, where you are, what you're doing, fit, fit of everything.
• 20:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But it starts with shoes upwards and flow, so that you are in your flow, meaning you are able to deliver.
• 20:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, you are able to have a conversation where you're just having an interaction and there's nothing else.
• 21:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: There's no pain.
• 21:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: My feet are killing me.
• 21:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: There's no.
• 21:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I hope, my something, my blouse is whatever, or my hope, my hair, whatever, that thing is no fidget, so that you can be in your flow and to that point.
• 21:15
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So you've had the people with very lovely looking but not functional shoes trying to get on stage and it's all photo opportunity and it's huge.
• 21:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But people who are panellists as well, perhaps they're wearing less, you know, not such high stilettos and they're sitting there.
• 21:32
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But there's this thing about how do I look, even if you're not consciously thinking it, and it can be a fidget with the hair or something else.
• 21:42
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And really what that does for me is because I chair and host and train.
• 21:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, being on stage is a thing that I do.
• 21:50
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It takes away from your power is what it does.
• 21:53
  Nima Abu Wardeh: People aren't really just tuning into what you're saying, they're also tuning into everything.
• 21:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: The way you are.
• 21:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, isn't there a stat that most communication actually is non-verbal?
• 22:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: So yes, absolutely.
• 22:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: I don't know if it's a made-up stat, but you know there's a stat that seems to get bandied about.
• 22:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's 55% is what it is which is allocated to non-verbal.
• 22:13
  Nima Abu Wardeh: People use these stats a lot.
• 22:15
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, for example, it's 38% is how you sound and how you come across with your words and voice.
• 22:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: 38% is how you sound and how you come across with your words and voice.
• 22:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: 55% is the nonverbal.
• 22:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But the guy I think it's Mehrabian, I think is his surname he did the research a long time ago and he caveated it with certain things and it's become like the gold standard.
• 22:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: People never look back at the origin story of how did the research come about?
• 22:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But regardless of the stats, the truth is that, yes, we make nano like semi-instant judgment calls about people, not because we're evil, but because we are human.
• 22:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So all of our interactions with a sort of person like that come into play Our inherent biases.
• 22:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Because we are human, we are biased by default.
• 22:57
  Nima Abu Wardeh: We are never going to be unbiased.
• 22:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: And that is probably a survival mechanism from like millions of years ago, maybe, when we were all quite tribal.
• 23:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Well, the thing is about bias.
• 23:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Bias just means that you have an inkling towards something, right?
• 23:12
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So you could have a bias towards physics, you know.
• 23:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But the problem is that, again, if we don't define words I'm a big, I like defining words they become, they mean one thing to you and they'll mean another thing to me.
• 23:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, whether it's confidence or bias, it is about defining what it means, but also about being not just led by these statements that are bandied around.
• 23:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Right, bias is never going to go away, but what I would hope for is that people are alert to their inherent bias, yeah, and they question it and they think, actually that's not fair, that's not right.
• 23:46
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I understand why.
• 23:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: My default mode is this I didn't even realize that I do this and I'm going to be aware of that as I move forward.
• 23:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: For example, right, this whole thing about bias and training goes into it.
• 23:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It is not doing its job.
• 24:01
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Actually, that's a whole different conversation, right?
• 24:03
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So the third C is being consistent.
• 24:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What do I mean it means?
• 24:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'll give you an example.
• 24:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: This really happened Annual conference, huge, big deal, construction industry right in the UK.
• 24:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Two women were given the opportunity to speak at this event.
• 24:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: They don't know each other, just the only two women that were given the opportunity to speak at this event.
• 24:21
  Nima Abu Wardeh: They don't know each other.
• 24:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: They're the only two women that were given the opportunity to speak at the event.
• 24:24
  Nima Abu Wardeh: They both turned down the opportunity and they nominated somebody else, and they happened to nominate a male colleague, but that's incidental.
• 24:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's a different conversation.
• 24:29
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Again, my point is, these women were approached because they are saying in some sphere, we are experts in this, we want to be known for this, we want to do more of this, right?
• 24:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, so then they're given the opportunity to showcase their brilliance and to be part of the mix.
• 24:45
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know what's going on, and they turn it down.
• 24:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You are not consistent when you do things like that, because why did you know why they turned it down?
• 24:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: No, I couldn't connect with them directly, but I do know, from speaking to people who were involved, that a huge element of this was fear and concern, and you know they didn't feel that they were ready.
• 25:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Is the impression I got from speaking to the organizers right, who were direct point of contact.
• 25:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The point, though, is that and it could be do you want to showcase your project at the next team meeting, for example?
• 25:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know it doesn't have to be a conference.
• 25:19
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, it could be.
• 25:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's anything.
• 25:21
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Do you want to be interviewed for our internal newsletter?
• 25:24
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, whatever that thing is right If you are signaling I am great at this, I want to be considered for things and I want to be known for this, and then you're given an opportunity to showcase it, spotlight it, highlight your credibility and raise your profile, and you turn that down.
• 25:42
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You're up against two issues.
• 25:45
  Nima Abu Wardeh: One, you're not going to be asked again if it was me, because what I mean is I used to do TV.
• 25:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I spent a lot of time finding, looking for the ideal guest for a certain slot and credibility, track record papers, whatever.
• 26:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know that all goes into it.
• 26:01
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So when you approach that person and they say, no, I am not going to waste my time, I have a weekly to fill, we're on air.
• 26:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know I'm not going to do that again because it wastes my time and I end up with a black hole potentially.
• 26:16
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So it's the first whammy like which is you're not going to be the first option again, or any option again, you don't know, depending on what the issue is right.
• 26:26
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Two, when you believe you are ready, oh, I feel good.
• 26:30
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Now, I've had training and whatever.
• 26:32
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You have to overcome the perception that people have as a result of your behavior that you might pull out, that you're not a safe pair of hands.
• 26:41
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Essentially, you're not reliable Exactly.
• 26:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And so when you are clear about what you will and won't do.
• 26:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So imagine that you are great and you are brilliant and you want to be known for something, but you're very clear, saying I'm happy to do this, I'm not happy to do that, for example.
• 26:56
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So about clarity when you're clear, people around you are clear, they know what to expect from you, and that is priceless because it means that they can trust you.
• 27:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Right, you are a safe person.
• 27:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You do what you say.
• 27:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You do yeah.
• 27:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So that's why consistency is so important.
• 27:10
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If you say you want to be known and you're offered an opportunity, you need to be consistent with what you say and step up and do it.
• 27:16
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And that's not to say that you might be terrified and you might think that you won't do a great job.
• 27:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Remember the spotlight effect.
• 27:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: People won't remember everything.
• 27:24
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What they do remember is the feeling that they took away from that interaction with you, and it could be as simple as you know standing in a queue for lunch and you think, oh, you know, elizabeth is great, you know, just for that interaction, yeah, I must invite her over.
• 27:40
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The next time she's around in the office I'm going to get her to talk to the team about the thing that we just spoke about, because Elizabeth is that person right, or it could be you know somebody X.
• 27:49
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Oh no, I don't want to be around them.
• 27:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Again, it's not conscious things that people say to themselves, although some do.
• 27:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's the impression that somebody has about you and the feelings that they have as a result of that interaction and decisions that are made as a result, which impact you perhaps for the rest of your life, if you are not chosen for that mega thing that you want.
• 28:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think I suppose the devil's advocate thing is you might be approached for something.
• 28:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: It might be an amazing opportunity, but it might just be the wrong week.
• 28:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, you might be on holiday, there might be a million things going on at home.
• 28:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: How do you say no in a way, that's just a not yet, but please approach me in a few weeks, it's about clarity and boundaries.
• 28:30
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Again, this is a real story, right, head of HR was beating herself up.
• 28:35
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She's a woman, the head of HR and she shared with me that she realized that she had made a decision on behalf of someone without giving them any choice, right?
• 28:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So she was referring to a woman who had recently given birth.
• 28:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She was on maternity leave and the head of HR was allocating a golden opportunity.
• 28:53
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It was a training thing and everyone wanted this and there was one slot that was being given out and she realized that person is the best person for this right and she didn't approach her or tell her, inform her, she just dismissed her, she took her off the list.
• 29:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She's not considered because she's human.
• 29:10
  Nima Abu Wardeh: This head of HR was using her perspective.
• 29:13
  Nima Abu Wardeh: When she was a new mum, she did not want to be doing this sort of thing.
• 29:16
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She wanted to have that time with her children, right?
• 29:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And so she imposed her perspective and her bias which is the bias too, yeah on the employee who wasn't there, who was on maternity leave.
• 29:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So we had a chat and then, you know, it was really simple have a conversation.
• 29:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So she picked up the phone and had a chat with the woman and they came up with a solution.
• 29:36
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The solution was that they would go.
• 29:36
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She would have this opportunity.
• 29:37
  Nima Abu Wardeh: She was chosen, she got it and it would happen when school holidays were on, so that her and her other kids and husband could go and they were all together and she could do the thing and be with her baby, you know.
• 29:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So there was a solution.
• 29:49
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But the point there is that somebody like that so imagine you are the woman who's going on maternity leave right, it's about being very clear and saying I'm going to be off for three months, six months, however long, whatever it is that you're doing, I do want to be approached for opportunities to do with XY.
• 30:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I will be personally, I would say even things like it depends on what your role and other things.
• 30:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But have a.
• 30:12
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, bring the baby in for a coffee virtual every Thursday for half an hour.
• 30:16
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, have a touch base, for example.
• 30:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But it's about being very clear about what you want for yourself.
• 30:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I am taking time off for this reason, but I am not disappearing and I'm still very much this person, the person who is this expert and wants these things Right.
• 30:35
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So do not have that conversation with HR.
• 30:37
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Have that conversation with your team, have a conversation with your boss.
• 30:40
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's about being clear, yeah.
• 30:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, absolutely, and I think that is I mean from my perspective.
• 30:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: When I'm on maternity leave, you know it was me as much as work, but it feels like you disappear and I didn't advocate for myself.
• 30:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: And you know, like talking to you, I'm like, yeah, these virtual meetings do sound a good idea because it does keep you in the loop, it does retain that confidence.
• 31:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: I know you don't know, but this is the thing that people lose, don't they, when they're out of the workplace, for whatever reason, absolutely.
• 31:08
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Look, the word confident is fine.
• 31:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I'm you know.
• 31:10
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I use it in the sense I'm writing a book, by the way, and it's part of the book.
• 31:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I explain why I'm anti the word when it's bandied around and can be used against you.
• 31:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, but to your point, I think.
• 31:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: One of the things, though, is when you are committing to meetings on a regular basis and you're on maternity leave.
• 31:26
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I think that's a big deal.
• 31:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Personally, I wouldn't do that.
• 31:28
  Nima Abu Wardeh: What I would do is I would say hey, let's touch base.
• 31:31
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You know, say you had something half an hour that people would get to do something that they want to do, or lunchtime, and you, literally you have your lunch with your baby and your colleagues virtually 10 minutes.
• 31:46
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It could be 10 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever, but it's just about you're still part of the mix, yeah, and you're still part of the world water cooler conversation kind of thing as well, right, that's really important if people want to know more about this.
• 31:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: By the way, I'm writing a book yeah, yeah, absolutely, I'm definitely going to.
• 32:02
  Elizabeth Willetts: Before we close, the one thing I wanted to ask you I know you've got um a meeting shortly is about it sounded like it's you talked about people that were successful or successful at building like internal networks.
• 32:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: If we, you know, basically being quite likable I guess in the in the queue for lunch how do you sort of build that rapport with people so you can build your influence and network in a workplace?
• 32:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Okay so, I'm not the right person to ask about how to be likable, because I'm actually the person who is.
• 32:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: If you're in the right place, then the right people will value what you provide, what part of the jigsaw puzzle you are, because it's all a jigsaw puzzle.
• 32:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: We're all fitting in together.
• 32:45
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's kind of like a bit of a movable one, right?
• 32:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So I'm not saying be dislikable, no, but what I mean is this is the thing right.
• 32:53
  Nima Abu Wardeh: When you're really comfortable with yourself and you're still like, oh, you know, oh yeah, I can step that, I feel good, I know how to do this and I feel good.
• 33:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: When you have that sort of feeling about you, you you're automatically likable, if that makes sense, because what we feel leaks out of us, it just becomes around us.
• 33:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And there is lots of research around cortisol levels and all the rest of it where, if I'm so stressed or even if I'm really keeping it tight to my chest, it leaks out and it impacts the people physically around you.
• 33:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So this is not just pontificating and saying fancy words.
• 33:26
  Nima Abu Wardeh: These things actually have a physiological and therefore physical down the line impact.
• 33:31
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So really, if you want to be likable, like yourself first, there you go.
• 33:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: I like that.
• 33:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: Work on yourself first and then it will just ooze out.
• 33:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yes, absolutely.
• 33:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: Is there any final tips you want to give before we wrap up about yeah, about you know, being this strong communicator and being seen as you know, maybe an expert in your field, or just getting what you need from working home?
• 33:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: okay.
• 33:54
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So a simple message to women, right is, before you make a major decision, let's say leave or go part-time or whatever it might be the right decision for you, because your life is unique to you, your needs and wants yes, but find out, get in touch if you want to what I call the financial facts of life for females, because the decisions that you make will have an impact.
• 34:13
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And I'm not saying don't do it, but I'm saying do it in a way that mitigates the risk of you being broke before you die.
• 34:18
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's a real thing, folks.
• 34:19
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So that's one.
• 34:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Two getting buy-in for what you need and want means that you don't hit the wall in the first place, right, and so the core skill that I would really implore is the word I would use actually people, but women especially to take on is how to communicate effectively.
• 34:39
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It sounds like it's the most boring thing in the universe, but it actually.
• 34:42
  Nima Abu Wardeh: There's a direct line between how well you communicate and how well your life turns out.
• 34:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: Oh, I like that.
• 34:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: That's made me shiver a bit.
• 34:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: That's a good one.
• 34:51
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, it's true.
• 34:52
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So if you can communicate, it doesn't mean that you are a good communicator, meaning I say good words and they come out clearly.
• 34:59
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That's not what I mean.
• 35:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It means that actually you are able to get an idea, a need, a thought out of your head into the other person's head in a way where they feel, oh, that's a good, that's really actually.
• 35:13
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yes, I get that.
• 35:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I see why this is important, and it's important to both of you, not just you, it's important to them too.
• 35:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So it's about understanding how communication happens.
• 35:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Communication is both an art and a science.
• 35:25
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I call it algorithm and alchemy.
• 35:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: There are rules that I've come up with basically to communicate brilliantly, and there is the magic of how you are and who you are, and you need to be you right.
• 35:38
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You're not going to be a clone of me or anybody else.
• 35:40
  Nima Abu Wardeh: You need to be you.
• 35:41
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So it's that, and at the core of it is the idea that if you can solve somebody's pain and take them to a pleasure state and I mean by that pain free, yeah and you are able to get across how you are the person who does this in your way, with your method and way, and and brilliance and track record and experience.
• 36:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: That that's the key.
• 36:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's the ability to be known as the solution ie for your expertise and what you want to be doing by the right people at the right time, which is when they have an issue and they want a solution.
• 36:19
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And just to end, I've never applied for a job.
• 36:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I've worked with global brands and you look at my LinkedIn profile, for example Very impressive LinkedIn profile.
• 36:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's all by invitation and it's all because they had a problem and they thought who can do this?
• 36:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And my name came up and that's what I want for everybody.
• 36:37
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So, whether you're in the corporate world or you're not, whether you're working or not, take ownership of your own life.
• 36:44
  Nima Abu Wardeh: This is the ultimate DIY moment.
• 36:46
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Don't wait for somebody else to come and save you.
• 36:47
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Nobody's going to save you.
• 36:48
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And figure out what you need right now so that you can sustain your sanity, being solvent and your version of success right.
• 36:57
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And at the core of that is, if you can't get your ideas and needs and wants out in a way that resonates and gets buy-in from the person you need, a yes from.
• 37:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It's never going to happen.
• 37:06
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Sorry, which is quite a downer, but it's true.
• 37:10
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah.
• 37:11
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So the upper is hey, you can do this, and it's easy when you know how so how do you help people then?
• 37:19
  Elizabeth Willetts: how do you, how do you help them with?
• 37:20
  Nima Abu Wardeh: the how so you can see my website right.
• 37:23
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The brilliant communicatorcom yeah, we'll put all the links in the show notes, great.
• 37:27
  Nima Abu Wardeh: But if people want to just go and have a nosy and a bit of a read, what I do in a nutshell is take one thing I do is pass on what I call a toolbox.
• 37:36
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah to how do I communicate effectively.
• 37:38
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And the type of interaction is actually irrelevant at the beginning, because the way you interact could be like we're doing right now.
• 37:46
  Nima Abu Wardeh: It could be in the kitchen with your teenager, it could be on stage, it could be in a meeting with a client.
• 37:51
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So these are all types of interactions, but the core of how to communicate effectively.
• 37:57
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Because you want a yes.
• 37:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: By the way, the only thing I ever want is a yes.
• 38:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Will you take the rubbish out?
• 38:01
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yes, will you give me a pay rise?
• 38:03
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yes, will you buy from me?
• 38:05
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Yeah, you know, if you think about it, the only thing we want is a yes.
• 38:07
  Nima Abu Wardeh: So how do I do that?
• 38:09
  Nima Abu Wardeh: How do I increase the chance of getting that yes that I need from the stakeholder that I want a yes from?
• 38:14
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And I've got a really simple how to do this system Very, very simple, because I'm interested in not creating clones and enabling people to do it for themselves.
• 38:24
  Nima Abu Wardeh: The way I work is I'm going to be hosting periodic full day intensives I call it an intensive the breathing communicator intensive and you walk away from that with your own plan and the basic fundamental toolbox, and then people who go through the intensive have the option of doing year long mastermind with me if they want to continue the journey, because the big thing is you can know everything and not do it, because we're human, so it's about implementing right.
• 38:51
  Nima Abu Wardeh: How do you become the go-to person for your brilliance?
• 38:55
  Nima Abu Wardeh: How do you raise your profile in a way that gets people to go?
• 38:58
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Oh yeah, we need this.
• 39:00
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Who's the person?
• 39:01
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And your name comes up.
• 39:02
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Right there you go.
• 39:04
  Nima Abu Wardeh: I hope I've answered your question.
• 39:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: Oh, my gosh, you have what a what an inspiring conversation.
• 39:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: I've loved it.
• 39:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: I would have carried on talking to you, so thank you so so much.
• 39:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: Let's do it again.
• 39:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: We will definitely do it again and get some more tips, but it's been brilliant to chat with you.
• 39:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much, nima, for joining me today.
• 39:21
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Elizabeth, thank you.
• 39:22
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Thank you for having me and I look forward to meeting you in person.
• 39:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: Absolutely.
• 39:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: I will try and come to one of Rebecca's LinkedIn locals Brilliant, all right you take care.
• 39:31
  Nima Abu Wardeh: And yeah, how brilliant is the internet.
• 39:33
  Nima Abu Wardeh: We met each other Fantastic.
• 39:34
  Nima Abu Wardeh: More power to you, by the way.
• 39:36
  Nima Abu Wardeh: Thank you so much.
• 39:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: See you soon.
• 39:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: Bye.
• 39:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you for listening to another episode of the work.
• 39:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: It like a mum podcast.
• 39:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 39:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you're on linkedin, please send me a connection request at elizabeth willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 40:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can also follow my recruitment site investing in women on linkedin, facebook and instagram.
• 40:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: Until time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.