Latest / Sessions Canceled / Running A Mystery In Our Fabula Ultima Campaign: Ep. 156

Transcript

Running A Mystery In Our Fabula Ultima Campaign: Ep. 156 · Sessions Canceled

• 0:15
  Greetings Internet, we've returned.
• 0:16
  Once again the GM has lost the plot, has failed to follow any
• 0:22
  of the clues, does not know where they are and probably got
• 0:26
  killed by the serial killer. So sessions cancelled.
• 0:31
  And also the players are idiots. Welcome back.
• 0:37
  What did you? Say wow.
• 0:40
  Wow, Oh no, my players are fucking stupid.
• 0:43
  You know that meme? It's like where?
• 0:47
  It's like I looked up a fifth grade 1/5 grader.
• 0:51
  What's the? 5th grade math problem.
• 0:53
  Yeah, yeah. And made it into AD and D puzzle
• 0:56
  my 30 year old players. I have no idea what these
• 0:59
  ultradroods are. I love that shit dude.
• 1:05
  That's pretty good. Oh fuck, that's kind of how I
• 1:10
  feel sometimes. So you're like, the answer is
• 1:13
  really obvious, you could do it. Got OK.
• 1:16
  Wait, do you know about the door story with Jacob XP to Level 3?
• 1:20
  I think so, yeah. Where he he so dumb Dude he had
• 1:27
  a he he made like AII think it was like a fun house dungeon or
• 1:32
  something like that. I forget the specifics.
• 1:35
  And his players just could not for the life of them figure out
• 1:41
  how to open this door. And they did all this crazy shit
• 1:44
  for like hours and then the answer was just to say open
• 1:48
  sesame. But he just refused to give them
• 1:51
  any hints and didn't know how to give them a hint without just
• 1:54
  giving them the answer. So they just got stuck at the
• 1:58
  door for hours because no one thought to say open sesame.
• 2:02
  I That is wild. Oh, it's great.
• 2:05
  I love it. I love what that kind of should
• 2:07
  happen to you just like, but you know what's, you know what?
• 2:10
  We're going to talk about how to solve that problem today,
• 2:14
  Segway, sort of. Well, we're going to talk about
• 2:17
  broadly techniques about dealing with a problem like that, I
• 2:20
  should say, not necessarily solving that exact problem.
• 2:26
  So what the fuck am I on about? Yeah, we're we're going to talk
• 2:33
  a little bit about running investigate investigations and
• 2:37
  or mysteries in your game. I don't know if we I don't know
• 2:44
  if we talked about this, but there's I have a lingering sense
• 2:47
  like this has come up before, but I don't remember.
• 2:50
  And even if it has, I don't think I had very organized
• 2:53
  thoughts on it. So it's fine to go back to it.
• 2:56
  OK. Have we talked about this
• 2:59
  before, Isaiah? Yeah, like a mystery genre.
• 3:04
  Yeah. I feel like we brought it up a
• 3:06
  little bit back in the day, but also our old episodes.
• 3:08
  Not great. So like.
• 3:10
  Well, like was it an episode? Is by quit like a dedicated
• 3:13
  episode? I don't think so, right?
• 3:15
  No, I don't think so either. Yeah, OK, So we're gonna go with
• 3:18
  it wasn't. And if somebody facts check
• 3:20
  facts checks fat fat fat fat. Fact checked us.
• 3:34
  Fact checks. Fact checks.
• 3:36
  Checks. Yeah, that. 1.
• 3:40
  Brother, you have me so fucked up.
• 3:44
  If somebody hits us with the bibliography in the comments,
• 3:47
  that's OK. Thank you for the for citing
• 3:50
  your sources. Brother, my brother in Christ.
• 3:56
  I think that was really hard to say because I'm still congested.
• 3:59
  So like the the like the F sound just didn't want to come out.
• 4:05
  Like it just wasn't, it just wasn't coming off the tongue.
• 4:12
  Oh, that was really funny. Oh my God Like I just lost my
• 4:19
  whole brain dude. It's that long.
• 4:22
  COVID, brother I I don't think I had well, I had COVID a year
• 4:26
  ago, two years ago. I don't remember when did I get
• 4:28
  COVID. That was a while ago.
• 4:30
  I I honestly I I either the last time I was sick, one of the
• 4:33
  reasons why we didn't record, I think I either had pneumonia or
• 4:35
  fucking COVID because I'm still coughing almost a month later.
• 4:41
  I it could be honestly either one.
• 4:43
  Yep, as someone who's had pneumonia more than most people
• 4:50
  and had COVID 4 times, yeah I could do both.
• 4:54
  I definitely, I think I had COVID twice.
• 4:58
  I definitely had it once and there was a second time where I
• 5:01
  didn't bother checking because I just could not be fucked.
• 5:04
  But I was like, I'm pretty sure that's what this is.
• 5:09
  But anyway, no, we're not. This is not a doctor podcast or
• 5:14
  a sickness podcast or any of those things.
• 5:17
  We're here to talk about. I was about to say video games.
• 5:19
  God damn it. We're here to talk about games
• 5:22
  on tables with pens and shit, pencils and shit.
• 5:24
  God fucking I can do this. It's the.
• 5:28
  Sick brain brother, the sick brain still getting you.
• 5:31
  It really is OK investigations before we investigate any
• 5:37
  things, I need you right now to investigate the like the no, God
• 5:41
  damn it, the subscriber follow button on your podcast platform
• 5:44
  of choice. Investigate that button and hit
• 5:46
  it. I'm just going to I'm just going
• 5:51
  to keep rolling. We're just going to ignore them
• 5:53
  and keep going. We're almost set.
• 5:57
  We're at 92 Subs on YouTube. Come on baby.
• 5:59
  Eight more motherfuckers just tickle my grundle a little bit.
• 6:02
  I8 More you. Know what's funny is the amount
• 6:06
  of people that while I'm driving for Uber like you sound like you
• 6:09
  talk a lot. Do you have a podcast?
• 6:11
  And I have to look at them and go yes.
• 6:15
  Wait, is that legitimately something people have said to
• 6:17
  you? Yes, I no less than 5 five of
• 6:21
  our subscribers on YouTube have been previous passengers of.
• 6:25
  What? Yeah.
• 6:26
  What do they what do they mean by that?
• 6:30
  I I so a. Lot like what?
• 6:34
  So that's not the way that most people put it.
• 6:36
  They're like, oh, you speak really well.
• 6:37
  Do you like, are you either a public speaker or I've I've
• 6:40
  gotten public speaker, voice actor, podcast host or narrator
• 6:47
  are all of the ones that I've ever read.
• 6:50
  Yeah. So I have to play this really
• 6:52
  annoying song or dance where they're like, you have a
• 6:54
  podcast? And I go, yeah, And they go,
• 6:57
  what's it about? And I go, it's a lot.
• 6:59
  And they're like, but we've got 20 minutes.
• 7:01
  And I go, alright, 20 minutes. Yeah, and yeah, you know the
• 7:07
  best part though, is you probably have to explain what
• 7:09
  the fuck tabletop is first, yeah?
• 7:11
  Absolutely. Yes, I do.
• 7:13
  Almost all the time. There are some people are where
• 7:15
  I explain it and they're like, oh, so like Stranger Things and
• 7:18
  I'm like, literally yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:23
  People are like, Oh yeah, I'm going to follow your podcast.
• 7:25
  And in my head, I'm like, you're never going to watch it, but I
• 7:26
  appreciate you. I mean, I'll take listen, number
• 7:29
  go bigger. So number go bigger, yeah.
• 7:30
  Number go bigger, so yeah, fair enough.
• 7:32
  Let's go for it. So why the fuck am I?
• 7:39
  Why am I breaking up investigations?
• 7:41
  Well, basically because I just ran 1 and I don't know I had.
• 7:46
  I had some thoughts, but I need to preface, I need to preface
• 7:52
  all of this episode. I'm coming at this subject from
• 8:00
  a very specific angle, right? I am not a person who's really
• 8:05
  big on the mystery genre in general, so I am not super well
• 8:09
  versed in it. I'm not like, you know, deep in
• 8:13
  the Sherlock sauce or anything like that.
• 8:15
  Although I did I did watch the BBC Sherlock or not BBC the The
• 8:20
  Netflix Sherlock show with Benedict Cumberbatch.
• 8:23
  I believe that was BBC. Was it OK?
• 8:25
  OK, so that wasn't crazy on that one.
• 8:28
  I did watch that show. I do like that show actually.
• 8:31
  I heard it started off really strong and then fell apart at
• 8:33
  the end. Yeah, I would say that's a
• 8:37
  relatively good assessment. That's how some people are
• 8:40
  feeling about Squid Game right now.
• 8:42
  I'm dead. Yeah.
• 8:44
  I don't. I don't.
• 8:45
  Agree with that take, just to be clear, but I.
• 8:48
  Was going to say that's partially how I'm feeling about
• 8:53
  Hannibal right now 'cause I'm not at the end of Season 3.
• 8:55
  Interesting. And I like season 3 'cause
• 8:58
  they're they're doing all of the Hannibal's greatest hits.
• 9:00
  So like we're dealing with like Warren and, or Mason Verger and
• 9:06
  like Francis Dollarhide, like all of the movie villains
• 9:10
  essentially. But I kind of liked the season 2
• 9:14
  form, honestly, the season 1 format where it was just the
• 9:16
  like villain of the week and Hannibal is doing his Hannibal
• 9:19
  thing and Will is like, I don't know, having a seizure or
• 9:22
  something. Now that the stakes are super
• 9:29
  high, I'm just kind of like, I like the old format a little.
• 9:33
  Better. It's funny, Yeah.
• 9:33
  Sometimes you don't let some. Yeah, certain shows you're like,
• 9:36
  I almost don't want the stakes to get higher.
• 9:38
  That is that I have. I've had felt felt that before.
• 9:41
  So that is people are like, oh, why do you like Doom Part 1 so
• 9:44
  much? Because I like the low stakes.
• 9:45
  I like just watching people exist in the funny universe.
• 9:49
  That's why I like Star Trek so much 'cause there's a lot like
• 9:51
  The Next Generation is just, it's just dudes.
• 9:54
  It's just guys being dudes. I get that.
• 9:56
  My problem with Doom Part 1 is everything is like molasses slow
• 10:00
  and there's just nothing that happens for me to like get
• 10:04
  attached to, you know? Yeah, like the the only scene
• 10:09
  that sticks in my head really good in Dune Part 1, other than
• 10:13
  obviously the Sardar invasion, but that's like the big fucking
• 10:16
  crazy battle, right? The only other scene that really
• 10:19
  sticks to my head is when they're out on the spice field
• 10:22
  with the carrier thopters and the spice crawler and the ropes
• 10:26
  break and then Paul gets all trips out and the spike spice
• 10:30
  cloud. That's the only other scene that
• 10:31
  really sticks in my head from Part 1.
• 10:33
  I mean, those are those in the final the the the amtal with
• 10:38
  jammies are like the three scenes that those are the three
• 10:42
  big action scenes of the book in the first half.
• 10:44
  So that's. Valid.
• 10:45
  Yeah, yeah. I look I stand by the 9 hour cut
• 10:49
  of that movie would go so hard. Bro, I don't even I couldn't
• 10:54
  even imagine. I That's a tough sell, Chief.
• 11:00
  I dude 3/3 hour parts. I watched it in one run, I
• 11:06
  wouldn't give a fuck. I'm sure you would, you fucking.
• 11:09
  Weird. Look, I don't know whose grundle
• 11:11
  I need to swallow to get fucking the 9 hour cut of Dune, but I
• 11:14
  will. Absolutely.
• 11:16
  The news, probably. Where's his e-mail?
• 11:20
  I'll get him right now all. Right.
• 11:23
  Anyway, we're we have tangented way off topic.
• 11:27
  I mean, we are at some point going to tangent into the tune
• 11:30
  the Dune video game, so we're really just prefacing it with
• 11:32
  this. I'm trying not to.
• 11:35
  Okay, good luck. Point point I'm getting yes I'm
• 11:40
  not well versed in the mystery genre.
• 11:42
  I also have not personally played any RPGs that are
• 11:46
  specifically focused on running and investigate investigations
• 11:50
  or mysteries where that's like the core mechanic.
• 11:52
  I haven't played any RPGs but that is the case.
• 11:55
  I. Haven't played like before or
• 11:56
  Felix right? No, well, I would not say you.
• 12:02
  Play P4. I have not actually played
• 12:04
  Persona 4, but really even if I had, I would not count Persona 4
• 12:08
  as a game that focuses on mysteries because the mechanics
• 12:12
  of the game are turn based JRPG and dating SIM.
• 12:15
  The mystery is the story of the game, but it is not the
• 12:18
  mechanics of the game. Sort of the the game does
• 12:22
  literally expect you to figure out who the villain is.
• 12:24
  Like you can answer you can get the the.
• 12:28
  Yes, but it is not the core mechanic.
• 12:33
  It is still at the end of the day of turn based therapy.
• 12:34
  Do you know what I mean? I suppose it's.
• 12:36
  Like I'm talking about a game like a game like Phoenix, right?
• 12:39
  The mechanics are literally investigating the situation.
• 12:43
  Like that's the cold core mechanic of Phoenix, right?
• 12:46
  So Phoenix, right. I would say I don't know if I
• 12:50
  would to be honest. I I don't know, when you when
• 12:53
  you get the objection on somebody, you're like, maybe it
• 12:57
  just hits. So with that being said, what
• 13:03
  I'm talking about is throwing a mystery into your game because
• 13:09
  you think it'd be like a fun little change of pace in a game
• 13:11
  that's not normally focused on this.
• 13:13
  This is a really common D&D trope, right?
• 13:16
  The GM has an idea for a mystery and he wants to run like a city
• 13:20
  based investigation mission or something similar to that to
• 13:25
  break up the just fighting monsters vibe a little bit.
• 13:29
  That's basically the angle I'm coming from.
• 13:31
  You're running D&D or something similar, or you're running D&D
• 13:36
  or a similar style dungeon fucking monster slapping
• 13:39
  adventure game, and you want to change things up for a few
• 13:42
  sessions so you do an investigation.
• 13:44
  Slash mystery. That's the angle we're coming
• 13:46
  at. Is that clear to you?
• 13:51
  OK, I'm a little nothing. No comment on dungeon?
• 13:57
  Fucking monster slapping adventure game.
• 13:59
  I mean, here's the thing, you've used dungeon fucking quite a bit
• 14:01
  in this in this podcast. The monster slapping is is a new
• 14:04
  one monster. Slapping adventure game.
• 14:06
  I expanded it. Yeah, I expanded it.
• 14:12
  The reason I'm coming at it from this angle is 'cause like I
• 14:15
  said, I just did exactly this. I am running a game with Fabula
• 14:19
  Ultima, which is largely less dungeon fucking, but definitely
• 14:24
  a lot of monster slapping in that game, you know, based
• 14:28
  around based off JRPGS like Final Fantasy and Persona.
• 14:33
  And I threw a little mystery thing in there, mostly just
• 14:39
  'cause I had an idea and I said fuck it, we ball.
• 14:42
  This wasn't even the system that the the quest, the quest, the
• 14:47
  mission that my players did was not even the system.
• 14:51
  I originally derived this for the idea.
• 14:53
  Originally I was gonna run Worlds Without Number and I was
• 14:56
  gonna do it in that game, but I didn't see any reason that it
• 14:59
  wouldn't translate over to Fabula.
• 15:01
  And I was basically the right, it translated to Fabula pretty
• 15:03
  much fine. So before I go on though, I'm
• 15:10
  just curious Isaiah, on your side of the table, since I was
• 15:13
  running and you are a player in this situation, how did you feel
• 15:18
  about how that whole mystery mission quest, couple of
• 15:22
  sessions went down? So it was really interesting for
• 15:26
  me, OK, because as you know, as you know, I did a good amount of
• 15:33
  the leading on this investigation.
• 15:37
  And on one end, it was a very nice change of pace to be like,
• 15:41
  oh, that's right, a back to the plot solver archetype that I
• 15:44
  usually play as opposed to being Django for 2 1/2 years who did
• 15:48
  not do that three years, three years.
• 15:52
  But on the flip side, I had to turn off my, how would me, how
• 15:57
  would Isaiah as GM think about this?
• 16:00
  And I had to like consistently be like, no, what does Isaiah as
• 16:04
  a player think about this? And like, a lot of the time,
• 16:10
  right. Like it.
• 16:12
  So in the beginning, when we, when we met the guy, when we met
• 16:17
  the Baron and you were like, oh, yeah, just hang out for two days
• 16:22
  And we'll like, you know, you can, you'll do the party thing.
• 16:26
  And in my head, I was like, OK, he's given us a time frame.
• 16:30
  That is the pacing he wants to set and he is going to try to
• 16:35
  not deviate too much from that pacing because he's got
• 16:39
  encounters built around the specific rests that we will be
• 16:42
  doing in those two days. That was Isaiah.
• 16:46
  The GM thought Isaiah had to go. No, what do you think, bud?
• 16:54
  And Isaiah the dungeon fucking monster slapping gremlin was
• 16:57
  like, puts on my Sherlock Holmes hat and starts smoking my
• 17:01
  fucking. What's the kind of pipe he
• 17:03
  smokes that's with ACI? Can't.
• 17:09
  I can't think of the name. But yeah, start smoking my my
• 17:12
  Sherlock pipe and being like I did.
• 17:16
  I say we do none of them do our own thing.
• 17:21
  And there is so many times where I was like, Josh probably has
• 17:23
  something planned for this. What do you think bud?
• 17:28
  I, I yeah, I mean, Isaiah looked at Isaiah, looked at me and said
• 17:32
  I could do 12 hours tops. You have two days, best I can do
• 17:39
  16 hours. Yeah, because the whole thing
• 17:43
  just fucking moved at lightning speed.
• 17:48
  We. Kind of solved the mystery in 12
• 17:50
  hours and then spent two days prepping to kick the bear's ass.
• 17:57
  Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
• 17:59
  That's, that's kind of yeah. Because yeah, especially because
• 18:03
  like the yeah, basically you double down on the mystery
• 18:10
  itself a lot harder than I was initially anticipating.
• 18:13
  And you are partially right in that I did have a certain degree
• 18:16
  of the pacing planned out over the two days, but I did also
• 18:20
  leave wiggle room. I actually left wiggle room
• 18:25
  expecting things to take longer, not shorter, so that was
• 18:31
  interesting. Well, that's always how you
• 18:33
  write you, you, you give yourself space in case something
• 18:36
  goes wrong and the players have to rebound.
• 18:38
  It's kind of hard to plan for your players to just go con it.
• 18:43
  I think they go hold on. Is that the answer?
• 18:45
  All the way over there in the back and you're just there like
• 18:47
  what? No, no, no.
• 18:50
  Yeah, look away, Look away. See.
• 18:53
  You know it's funny. Now you know how I felt with
• 18:55
  Julie. Right.
• 18:58
  Yeah. So follow up to it though or not
• 19:08
  follow follow up question. I meant to say, how did you
• 19:15
  feel? OK.
• 19:15
  So how did you feel about the pace and then overall conclusion
• 19:24
  of things? So I can only answer how I felt
• 19:27
  about the pace that I set, which good you know.
• 19:31
  Well, pace, what I mean is pace in so far as you didn't, you
• 19:36
  felt like, yes, we were getting information as we were going.
• 19:40
  We didn't hit any dead ends. It didn't feel awkward like that
• 19:42
  kind of thing. You.
• 19:44
  Know yes to to that end everything felt good everything
• 19:47
  felt copacetic. It felt like there was natural
• 19:49
  follow through to situations. At no point did I feel like,
• 19:53
  well what the fuck do we do now? Which is good, yeah.
• 19:57
  That's 'cause that that is an that is a big problem trying to
• 20:01
  run like a mystery, right Is the what the fuck do we do now part?
• 20:04
  Yeah, that can often be a huge problem.
• 20:07
  Well, so I think the thing that you did well was and, and this
• 20:11
  is a big trip up that a lot of people who try to run
• 20:14
  investigations do, myself included, is you need to set the
• 20:19
  parameters of the investigation, right.
• 20:23
  The simple parameter of people are dying and it doesn't like
• 20:30
  all common sense points to the fact that the two goobers who
• 20:33
  got arrested for the murder didn't do it.
• 20:36
  And then just based on that right that spawns a question.
• 20:41
  Well how do we know that they probably didn't do it?
• 20:43
  Oh well, everyone said that the the murder weapon were was claw
• 20:47
  like weapons and it ripped through things that 219 year old
• 20:52
  idiots frankly are incapable of with their scrawny young adult
• 20:56
  arms. Right.
• 20:59
  So then you go, oh, OK, interesting.
• 21:03
  Now there's a few like maybe we can check the blacksmith to see
• 21:06
  if he has like if he, if he, you know, or just magic weapons.
• 21:10
  Maybe it's a monster, maybe it's a cover up, maybe it's like a
• 21:15
  werewolf. You know, like your your brain
• 21:18
  goes to a bunch of different places because you've set up
• 21:22
  very simple foundational clues that allow for expansion for.
• 21:29
  For context on why Isaiah said it that way, the answer was a
• 21:33
  werewolf. It was, in fact, a werewolf.
• 21:35
  Yeah, yeah. OK.
• 21:39
  And then, yeah, conclusion wise, how did you feel?
• 21:43
  'Cause I should have gone with my gut over Lita's gut and
• 21:48
  killed him. I think I probably could have
• 21:51
  with 60 damage to the face. You could have, yes.
• 21:55
  I fucking knew it. I should have gone with my plan.
• 21:59
  I'm always right for the sake of this Lita.
• 22:02
  I'm kidding, but no, yeah, I mean like it.
• 22:08
  It. I think it concluded really
• 22:09
  well. I think the thing that that and
• 22:13
  I think the simple answer as to why it felt good is that there
• 22:16
  was pay off all of the things that we did specifically to
• 22:20
  stack things in our favor paid off directly, right?
• 22:25
  Like we, we, we paid off the investigator to talk to the
• 22:29
  criers. We paid off the the courtesans
• 22:32
  to start spreading gossip. We picked up some silver from
• 22:36
  the blacksmith. We, you know, made nice with
• 22:40
  that one merchant guy who knows the blacksmith thanks to thanks
• 22:43
  to paladin's like merchant ability.
• 22:46
  So we created a front on all sides that effectively
• 22:50
  surrounded the Baron and then those all paid off in time.
• 22:56
  There's nothing is more annoying than when you do the setup and
• 22:58
  then nothing fucking comes of it and you're like great.
• 23:01
  That if it works, yeah. I I will say in in regards to
• 23:04
  the to the Baron getting away, it is worth pointing out that
• 23:10
  Fabula as a game sort of wants you to do that, right?
• 23:15
  It wants villains to escape and then come back a couple of
• 23:17
  times. It's very built into the system
• 23:20
  because they have the Ultima points, but also there's the
• 23:23
  escalation mechanic and also there's the bonds mechanic.
• 23:26
  Like there's several things of the game pushing you towards
• 23:29
  having a villain that comes up over and over again.
• 23:31
  It's also just on genre, right? You, you meet, you know, you,
• 23:36
  you meet Seymour the first time when you do the whole sin spawn
• 23:40
  mission in 10. And then you meet Seymour again
• 23:42
  later and you have a little mini fight with him.
• 23:44
  And then you meet Seymour again later and then you have another
• 23:46
  fight with him and then you meet him again later.
• 23:47
  You have a third. You know what I mean?
• 23:48
  Like, is that kind of thing? Absolutely.
• 23:50
  Look, this is one of those. Isaiah as a player wanted him
• 23:53
  fucking dead. Isaiah, as AGM was, is very
• 23:57
  excited to see what you do with him.
• 23:59
  Well, and also now you have to think about the long term, you
• 24:02
  know, the the long term payoff, right?
• 24:05
  The where does it go from here? And how could it get more
• 24:09
  interesting or let you know or less interesting maybe.
• 24:11
  I mean, you know, it could be end up being like, oh, now he's
• 24:13
  a little bitch, but there's still kind of that.
• 24:15
  Like we've spent time hating this motherfucker thing.
• 24:20
  Yeah, for sure. That's why I like I I, I wanted
• 24:24
  to make it perfectly clear in in session that like, Goro was
• 24:31
  upset that he got away. I was not, you know what I mean?
• 24:37
  Yeah, which makes sense. Like the the fact that I, you
• 24:40
  know, he attacked one of the guards and very specifically did
• 24:45
  not do the like, objectively spiteful bitch player decision
• 24:49
  of merking innocent, you know, a confused innocent guard.
• 24:53
  And like, I would have killed him had like really all I needed
• 24:58
  was one of the players to appeal to him in a non aggressive way,
• 25:02
  which is exactly what Senna did, right?
• 25:03
  The like, this isn't who you are and you're more honorable than
• 25:06
  this. And I was like, ah, OK, perfect.
• 25:09
  If they tried to stop him, he would have killed him.
• 25:11
  But like, that's because there's direct interference at that
• 25:14
  point. It's not just Isaiah being
• 25:16
  salty, right? Yeah, So I, I, I had a couple of
• 25:28
  when I, when I came up with the idea to to do hold on, when I
• 25:35
  came up with the idea to do a mystery quest, I had a couple of
• 25:42
  like, I don't know, key, key things to keep in mind.
• 25:48
  I had like a couple of don't deviate from these points
• 25:52
  because I know we've all heard the, the stories, the, you know,
• 25:57
  the RPG horror stories or whatever.
• 26:00
  Like the GM wants to run a murder mystery.
• 26:04
  The players go to investigate the mystery, The players don't
• 26:08
  find any of the clues that the GM wanted them to find.
• 26:11
  The entire game comes to a screeching halt because the
• 26:14
  players find absolutely fuck all nothing and have no information
• 26:18
  and ergo they just sit with their thumb up their ass because
• 26:20
  they don't know where to go from here.
• 26:22
  And the GM also kind of sits with their thumb up their ass
• 26:26
  because they don't know how to push it forward without just
• 26:29
  telling the players the answer. But obviously you don't just
• 26:31
  want to tell the players the answer.
• 26:34
  So I was very cognizant of that problem happening.
• 26:38
  So I I came up with a couple of bullet points, if you will.
• 26:44
  Now, again, all of these bullet points are through the lens of
• 26:49
  the game itself is not necessarily about investigating
• 26:54
  mysteries. You're throwing it into a game
• 26:57
  that's normally about something different.
• 26:59
  As a little side bit, if the game is about investigating
• 27:03
  mysteries, I'm going to assume the game is going to tell you
• 27:06
  how to handle that as best as possible.
• 27:08
  And I probably will not have better advice than the game that
• 27:12
  is about the thing because again, I'm not that deep in the
• 27:15
  genre, right? So first one's real, real easy.
• 27:23
  Just keep it simple, dawg. Just keep it simple.
• 27:28
  First and foremost, we've established that we're not
• 27:32
  talking about running a full mystery campaign.
• 27:35
  You're not playing Sherlock Holmes Squad.
• 27:39
  You're Dungeon Fuckers Incorporated.
• 27:42
  So I love that. Because of this, there's no real
• 27:47
  benefit in my opinion to making a ton of layers of complexity to
• 27:52
  your mystery. Keep it simple and focused so it
• 27:56
  doesn't take like 25 sessions to finish because boy will nobody
• 28:00
  give a shit by that point. You know, like keep.
• 28:05
  Think about it this way. 25 sessions.
• 28:07
  Let's assume you play once a week.
• 28:09
  You're looking at what, 480? God, how many months is that?
• 28:15
  4812 16? Like 5 months almost.
• 28:24
  Oh, the other. I I as someone who has been
• 28:28
  literally been in this situation.
• 28:31
  It's awful on a on like an an investigation, specifically
• 28:35
  three months one town obsession. How did how this?
• 28:42
  This was the great downtime debacle with the with the
• 28:45
  werewolves, ironically, with the.
• 28:47
  Werewolves. The werewolves.
• 28:48
  Yeah, yeah. Well, we were like, hey, we want
• 28:51
  to do some downtime and then eight weeks later or 12 weeks
• 28:55
  later, we're still technically in downtime, but didn't
• 28:57
  actually. We only had like one session of
• 28:58
  downtime shit and it was only a part of the session.
• 29:04
  How did it? How did?
• 29:06
  How did? Every that, that was everything.
• 29:10
  Everything in that campaign did that.
• 29:11
  It just, it just spiraled. But I'm trying to understand how
• 29:15
  the the investigation part went on for so long like.
• 29:19
  Because we're, we were investigating and to be fair,
• 29:23
  our party was like 8 or 9. So, you know, you have that.
• 29:28
  You have, you know, inflated party syndrome.
• 29:31
  Yes. So you know, you've got this
• 29:34
  crazy. Yeah.
• 29:35
  You've got the like, movers and shakers of the party, right?
• 29:38
  So like me? Yeah, sorry, Brain just turned
• 29:43
  off. Like me, Paladin and Lupo like
• 29:48
  the movers and shakers. And then you had the like.
• 29:51
  The hangers on. The well, so that like there's
• 29:54
  movers and shakers, there is the incidental investigators like,
• 29:58
  oh, GM dropped me a line. I'm going to go do this thing.
• 30:01
  And you know, that was your Astor, that was brain please,
• 30:09
  Ant and ass. And then you had like some other
• 30:14
  people who kind of were just there for the vibes, like
• 30:19
  Mookie, Mookie was there for the vibes and look, that's fair,
• 30:24
  that's valid. You can be there for the vibes.
• 30:25
  It just you know, is not inducive to investigate.
• 30:30
  No, generally not. So you had that problem you had.
• 30:33
  We had one situation where one player went off to do a thing to
• 30:39
  like help, but then got tricked into actually harming the party
• 30:44
  'cause, you know, gentleman thief with a bad contract
• 30:47
  situation. So that wasted a bunch of time
• 30:51
  and it's really not even his fault, he was just trying to
• 30:53
  help. But it still did waste a whole
• 30:55
  session and 1/2. And then we were trying to do
• 30:59
  the downtime stuff, which again took like about a session.
• 31:03
  It was a lot. But it, it, it actual
• 31:05
  investigating was about 8 sessions.
• 31:06
  We got to the town, saw the vampire, saw that there was shit
• 31:09
  going on that went to like the local Lord said that there was
• 31:13
  some werewolves. We were like, all right, fine,
• 31:15
  whatever. Went to the bar, bar got
• 31:17
  attacked by werewolves. A lot of people died.
• 31:19
  We tried to figure what was going on, why they attacked the
• 31:22
  bar. That was its own MIDI
• 31:23
  investigation to figure out like what the thing was going on
• 31:26
  there. And one of the people I think
• 31:29
  was a werewolf or something. It's been God, that's that
• 31:36
  campaign ended in 2020 and it was four years.
• 31:39
  And that was like the 3 1/2 year mark.
• 31:41
  So I'm, I'm working with degraded info on this.
• 31:47
  Oh yeah. OK, question.
• 31:53
  Do you think part of the problem was the the mystery itself being
• 32:00
  too complicated? Yes, the scope was absolutely.
• 32:02
  An issue like yeah, too many. There was too many plot points.
• 32:07
  Too many layers. Yes, too many layers, too many
• 32:09
  plot points, too many things going on at once.
• 32:12
  And I, I, I, I, I understand the idea, right?
• 32:15
  The idea was that, oh, there's eight players.
• 32:18
  They are going to investigate in groups and they are going to
• 32:20
  figure shit out at different intervals.
• 32:22
  And then they will, you know, communicate with each other and
• 32:26
  then put the pieces together. But right, our GM did not take
• 32:30
  into account the fact that only three players in that party were
• 32:32
  movers and shakers. And everybody else just wanted
• 32:36
  to go off and do happy fun, to be fair.
• 32:38
  So we we also wanted to go off and just fuck off and do some
• 32:41
  downtime actions. But like, I mean, definitely
• 32:45
  knowing, knowing who and your group are the movers and shakers
• 32:50
  type or what the percentage of movers and shakers is, I think
• 32:53
  helps a lot. I will say, I do think a little
• 32:57
  bit, I did get a little lucky in this particular scenario in
• 33:02
  Fabula Ultima because we kind of have three out of four players
• 33:08
  who are willing to like get things moving.
• 33:10
  Yes. So I got a little lucky in that
• 33:14
  most of the party was keeping the ball rolling and the one
• 33:17
  person who isn't pushing the pushing the ball forward as much
• 33:21
  that being palleted is still willing to do shit if something
• 33:25
  comes up that is directly like, oh, I could do something there,
• 33:27
  you know? Yeah.
• 33:29
  So there is a, there is a little bit of that element of luck too.
• 33:34
  I will say I I have been, I have been somewhat impressed with
• 33:39
  Sarah's Hutzpah in terms of like.
• 33:42
  Bro I'm telling me about that like her, she is a fucking
• 33:48
  diamond of a player. She just goes for it all the.
• 33:53
  Time we're going in balls deep. Let's Yeah.
• 33:55
  Air dude. Abduct the child.
• 33:57
  I'm doing it. Yeah, she is such a go getter.
• 34:02
  She's such a good player. I.
• 34:04
  Fucking I was, I was. I was quite surprised.
• 34:07
  I really didn't expect it. She didn't seem like like
• 34:10
  knowing who she is as a person. I didn't think it would
• 34:13
  translate that way. You.
• 34:14
  Know No, I knew. I knew and I'll tell you why I
• 34:17
  knew because she is an AO3 gremlin, much like me.
• 34:20
  She has a mind for adventure and the disturbing I see they're
• 34:26
  going to they're going to watch this episode.
• 34:28
  They watch as almost as we drop them.
• 34:30
  But she's here's the thing. She explicitly is like, oh, I
• 34:33
  don't take compliments well. So this is just going to psychic
• 34:35
  damage the shit out of her. That makes it kind of funny.
• 34:39
  So funny. Yeah.
• 34:42
  So here's the thing. And like on the topic of
• 34:44
  Paladin, Paladin, I feel like is he's not a direct mover and
• 34:48
  shaker, but what let me tell you man, he his ability to just be
• 34:52
  like, don't worry guys, I'm going to help and then pull
• 34:56
  something out like the the merchant ability.
• 34:59
  Right. Yeah.
• 35:00
  Yeah, yeah, just infinitely effective.
• 35:02
  Well, that. Really.
• 35:03
  That's kind of what I was saying, like doesn't directly go
• 35:06
  for the isn't the first one to push things forward, but as soon
• 35:09
  as something comes up that is oh, I can do something
• 35:14
  beneficial here, he jumps on it pretty quick.
• 35:17
  So. And.
• 35:18
  He might not spark the initial idea, but once he notices the
• 35:21
  opening, you know. Holy shit dog, every time Lita
• 35:26
  opens her mouth I am fucking on the edge of my seat.
• 35:30
  'Cause she. Consistently goes for the throat
• 35:35
  in a way that I have not seen from a player.
• 35:37
  It's so God damn long. The roast.
• 35:40
  Surreal. I bro it's not even roast.
• 35:43
  I was like look the that that character is going to kill
• 35:48
  himself, not the NPC. The concept of that character is
• 35:51
  going home tonight and we're never seeing.
• 36:02
  It's gonna be funny to hear her response on that one.
• 36:04
  Is she also watching us? Yeah, she listens all the time.
• 36:07
  Oh, nice, nice. So yes, all, all of my players
• 36:12
  listen. So they're gonna hear all this.
• 36:16
  So once, once you have, yeah, like keeping it simple, right?
• 36:20
  The investigation, the situation I set up, murders are occurring.
• 36:26
  The the the person who gave the players the job has a suspect
• 36:33
  already. They think that the Baron of the
• 36:35
  town is related to the situation that is going on and they're
• 36:40
  just trying to like figure out who the murderer is, stop the
• 36:43
  murder, right? There wasn't that many layers of
• 36:45
  complexity. The Baron is scheming.
• 36:47
  He's got someone doing his dirty work.
• 36:50
  Then there was 1 little extra one or two little like side
• 36:54
  layers of complexity in that the Baron had a helper and then the
• 36:58
  Baron had a blackmail on someone, but it all still tied
• 37:02
  back to him. So it wasn't it wasn't like
• 37:06
  there was a cabal of five different people that were all
• 37:08
  linking their plans together to like conquer this the nation or
• 37:12
  whatever. So once you've set it up, you
• 37:17
  know, once you've set up your what I feel should be a
• 37:19
  relatively simple, simple premise, the next big thing is
• 37:27
  always be nudging your players. What what the hell?
• 37:32
  I oh, I didn't finish my sentence in my notes.
• 37:34
  I was like, was that be nudging your players forward the whole
• 37:40
  time? And what I mean by that?
• 37:44
  So if your entire game is not about investigating, right, If
• 37:49
  you're not playing Sherlock Holmes type characters, your
• 37:53
  prayers are probably not the type of players to be super
• 37:56
  invested in the thrill of the hunt that is searching for clues
• 37:59
  or whatever. Or if they are the kind of
• 38:02
  players that would like that kind of thing, they're probably
• 38:05
  not in the mindset for this game because everybody signed up for
• 38:09
  dungeon fucking and monster slapping, not hunting down
• 38:12
  clues. So to prevent everything from
• 38:17
  coming to a screeching halt where every player starts to
• 38:20
  suspect, every fork and cup is a piece of vital evidence.
• 38:24
  You keep nudging the players in the right in the right
• 38:26
  direction. And this can come in like,
• 38:30
  there's a million different ways that you could potentially do
• 38:35
  this. For my fabulous game, what I did
• 38:38
  was I had an NPC who was an investigator.
• 38:43
  Like, that was his job. He was like a detective.
• 38:46
  He had already been, he had already been working on the case
• 38:50
  when the players arrived. He's the one who hired the
• 38:52
  players to help him. And because he'd already been
• 38:56
  working on the case for a while, he suggested to the players what
• 39:00
  the next most like, what the most straightforward course of
• 39:03
  action should would be like. He told the players you should
• 39:08
  do this and then that, and then I will do this and then that.
• 39:12
  Obviously the players could do whatever they wanted beyond the
• 39:16
  investigators plan and they did, but he was always going to give
• 39:20
  them a direct course of action. Like if at any point they got
• 39:24
  really stuck, the investigator NPC there is there to be like,
• 39:28
  oh, what if we did this? And actually he did time to do
• 39:31
  that one time where the players kidnapped a man and got
• 39:36
  themselves into a bit of a bind. And they're like, how do we
• 39:41
  like, we can't leave this building without like, how,
• 39:44
  where are we going to hide? And then the investigator was
• 39:47
  like, oh, we could hide here. And the players, like, that's a
• 39:49
  good idea, right? And that was me as the GM being
• 39:52
  like, OK, the players are not sure what to do here.
• 39:56
  This is a logical suggestion that this MPC would make, so I'm
• 40:00
  going to throw it out. I think you're you're hitting on
• 40:02
  a really good point. Which is.
• 40:06
  Because I do like, you know, I'm not a huge purveyor of mystery
• 40:09
  media, right? But I do, I do like via crime
• 40:12
  drama. And because the actors and the
• 40:17
  script writers in crime drama are not actually detectives
• 40:21
  themselves with a forensics degree, there is always
• 40:25
  conveniently something to find. Either, you know, a slip of
• 40:30
  paper with a combination lock on it, or a CCTV camera that's
• 40:36
  that's conveniently placed in the scene that the players
• 40:38
  happen to look at. Things that someone who's an
• 40:42
  expert in this would get immediately, but you as the DM
• 40:46
  have to give it to the players or point them in the direction
• 40:49
  where they could get it. And don't lock it behind A roll,
• 40:52
  which is a big thing. And if you do lock it behind A
• 40:54
  roll, make sure that there are other avenues by which players
• 40:57
  can come to the same. There's got to be a fall back.
• 41:00
  But too often do you see GM's setup investigations.
• 41:05
  And I've done this where I, you know, I have all these clues and
• 41:09
  I put the players in the sandbox with all the clues I've buried
• 41:12
  and I have a little map for all of the treasure that they're
• 41:15
  going to find. And then I go figure it out and
• 41:18
  the players go ow why? You know what I mean?
• 41:26
  Yeah, which is the correct response.
• 41:27
  They don't have enough information to know what the
• 41:29
  fuck they have to do. Yeah, You don't have a if you're
• 41:32
  you're not being nudged in a direction you can't immediately
• 41:37
  like what? Like, OK how?
• 41:40
  Right. Like, literally how?
• 41:41
  Yeah. Yeah, literally how?
• 41:44
  Yeah, it it's yeah, it's exactly that.
• 41:46
  The there's always the convenient little thing.
• 41:50
  And like I said, it's funny you mentioned the finding a letter
• 41:53
  because like I said, I did this via an NPC detective character.
• 41:57
  But another option could be a trail of a trail of letters,
• 42:02
  right? Or if you're playing in a
• 42:04
  fantasy game, a weird magical force, like it could be the
• 42:09
  Force, like in Star Wars is telling you I should go
• 42:12
  investigate that tree and someone's like, why?
• 42:14
  And you're like, I'm not sure, but the Force is pointing me at
• 42:17
  that tree, you know? Or it could be like a mysterious
• 42:21
  benefactor who's like meet this guy at this location for your
• 42:25
  next instructions or whatever. You know, there's a ton of
• 42:29
  different avenues you could go about it and it it, of course
• 42:31
  the avenues are also going to be setting dependent, right?
• 42:33
  Like Isaiah said, if you're doing a more modern setting,
• 42:36
  maybe it's camera footage that the players walk in and see
• 42:40
  'cause somebody like a great, a great way you could do it is the
• 42:43
  players go to meet a cop or something.
• 42:47
  Let's assume, you know, you're doing a modern setting.
• 42:49
  The players going to meet a cop, and the cop is watching footage
• 42:53
  on the screen when they go to talk to him.
• 42:55
  And so they walk in the room and they look over his shoulder and
• 42:58
  they see a vitally important bit of information on the camera
• 43:02
  footage that the cop is watching from the security camera.
• 43:05
  And then they're like, oh, what's going on there?
• 43:07
  And then they could talk to the cop and get more, you know, But
• 43:09
  you got to constantly put those little nudges there to just keep
• 43:13
  pushing things forward because, you know, it's really easy.
• 43:19
  The meme, right? The the meme is that all players
• 43:22
  are dumb and can't figure out like the five year old puzzle.
• 43:26
  The actual reason, like putting the meme aside, the reason that
• 43:31
  it actually happens is because tabletop games all happened in
• 43:39
  our heads and not what's happening in everyone's head
• 43:44
  does not look identical and literally cannot look identical
• 43:48
  because we don't have mind syncing technology or anything
• 43:50
  yet. We're not we're not a sorry for
• 43:53
  Mass Effect, unfortunately. So yeah, unfortunately.
• 43:59
  So you have an idea as the GM in your head of what the room looks
• 44:05
  like and you know, Oh, there's a desk in the corner with a piece
• 44:09
  of paper on it. Like the players could grab
• 44:11
  that. But if you don't say that, or
• 44:13
  you say it in such a way that they kind of miss something or
• 44:17
  they picture it slightly differently, they're not going
• 44:20
  to know the piece of paper exists because in their head it
• 44:23
  doesn't exist, right? They're seeing a different
• 44:26
  thing. So because there's this
• 44:28
  mismatch, right? We're not all looking at the
• 44:31
  same physical thing. We're not physically looking at
• 44:34
  anything really, other than maybe a map, but even a map is
• 44:36
  gonna have elements of it where the GM is like, oh, that chair
• 44:40
  isn't actually there or something.
• 44:41
  You know, that kind of shit happens all the time.
• 44:43
  So the reason it happens is because you have a certain
• 44:45
  amount of information and the players have a certain amount of
• 44:48
  information. It's very hard to make sure that
• 44:50
  those two, those those amounts of information are equal to each
• 44:54
  other. Basically impossible.
• 44:57
  So that's where the nudging comes in, because the players
• 45:03
  miss something. And then you as the GM go, OK,
• 45:05
  I'm gonna nudge you towards the thing that you're missing
• 45:09
  because maybe the GM, you as AGM may have been running the game,
• 45:14
  right? You're, you're running the
• 45:15
  session. The players come into the room.
• 45:16
  You describe the room. You're supposed to describe
• 45:20
  that. There is a mahogany desk at the
• 45:23
  back of the room with a stack of paper, stack of letters on it.
• 45:27
  You, as the GM, talk about the room and describe it.
• 45:30
  You forget to say that there's a stack of letters on the desk and
• 45:33
  you didn't realize you forgot to say it, right?
• 45:36
  You're just 'cause you're just, you're just, you're describing,
• 45:38
  you're talking, whatever. Yeah, you in your head, you know
• 45:41
  that's supposed to be there, but you might not have actually
• 45:42
  verbally said that and you might not have realized you didn't say
• 45:46
  it. So now you're like, why aren't
• 45:47
  the players looking at the fucking letters?
• 45:50
  Because you didn't actually verbally say there any letters
• 45:53
  and they can't read your minds. So that's where the nudging
• 45:56
  comes in, right? And then in that scenario,
• 45:58
  right, what would be a good nudge in that scenario?
• 46:02
  You describe the room, they look around the room, blah, blah,
• 46:04
  blah. The players are standing there
• 46:05
  like, all right, we don't know what else to find.
• 46:08
  And then you as the GM go, oh, the the wind, the wind from the
• 46:14
  window blows in a little bit and like blows some letters onto the
• 46:17
  ground that you didn't notice before, right?
• 46:20
  And that's very obvious, the GM nudging you being like, look at
• 46:23
  the fucking letters. Yeah.
• 46:26
  You know, and again, it might have been your mistake or it
• 46:29
  might not have been your mistake, but either way, it's
• 46:31
  just nudge them in the direction.
• 46:33
  Now they have something they can do.
• 46:34
  They have an action they can take.
• 46:38
  Because the worst thing in the world is a player.
• 46:41
  Actually the worst thing in the world on both sides of the table
• 46:43
  is players not knowing what their next action is, because as
• 46:49
  a player you don't know what to say and as AGM you have nothing
• 46:53
  to respond to, so you also have nothing to say.
• 46:58
  Yeah. So directly following from that
• 47:04
  idea of constantly nudging is give, always be giving the
• 47:11
  players actionable prompts. I think, I think Matt Koval
• 47:18
  described this in a video one time where he said like use
• 47:20
  action verbs or something like that.
• 47:22
  I don't remember exactly how he put it.
• 47:24
  But when you're trying to push your players in the right
• 47:28
  direction so they stay on track, it helps to give them directly
• 47:32
  actionable things to do. You're almost giving them orders
• 47:37
  in a sense, but it's not literally orders because
• 47:40
  obviously the players can disobey if they want.
• 47:42
  But a great example, if you just say investigate the house where
• 47:47
  the murder happened, that's really broad and the only really
• 47:52
  actionable thing they can do if you say that to them is they can
• 47:56
  go to the house. That's the only action you gave
• 48:00
  them, right? You said investigate the house
• 48:03
  where the murder happened. OK, we can go to the house.
• 48:07
  There's nothing else them in that sentence to directly tell
• 48:10
  them what to do when they get there.
• 48:13
  So instead you might want to say something a little more direct
• 48:15
  like find the murder weapon left at the house.
• 48:20
  So now the players go, OK, we have the action of going to the
• 48:22
  house and then the action of looking for the murder weapon.
• 48:26
  Now we also know a murder weapon was left there, so they also
• 48:29
  have a little extra information to go on.
• 48:32
  It gives a clear goal and a path to follow down.
• 48:37
  And then once they're on the path, like looking for the
• 48:40
  murder weapon, that is where you can also sprinkle in extra
• 48:44
  information that can be gathered because they're already hunting
• 48:48
  for something specific. You know, they go to look for
• 48:52
  the murder weapon, but also they find the person who lived in the
• 48:56
  house. They find their diary, which
• 48:58
  talks about meeting a mysterious man for the last couple of
• 49:02
  weeks. Like, OK, now they have that's
• 49:04
  like extra information. Again, this can also be done in
• 49:10
  a million different ways. It's really however you want to
• 49:13
  go about it. But the idea is action.
• 49:17
  Actionable prompts, like actionable, like verb
• 49:19
  statements. Find the thing, hit the thing,
• 49:23
  open the thing. You know, like actionable
• 49:26
  things, Yes. Things that you can directly
• 49:30
  call back to and go, what are we doing again?
• 49:33
  And then you go, oh, right, right, right, right.
• 49:35
  We have to find this thing. Find the thing.
• 49:37
  All right? We have to smash the statue.
• 49:39
  We have to get into the basement.
• 49:41
  Like, yeah. And you know, I understand the
• 49:49
  urge as AGM to be like, I don't want to give them all that
• 49:51
  information. I want them to have to, like,
• 49:53
  figure it all out. Listen, you can.
• 49:57
  You can, but you got you got to have the patience of a St. my
• 50:02
  guy. Yeah, here's the thing.
• 50:03
  You can, but by by by wanting that and expecting it.
• 50:09
  You have to, on some level, relinquish your ability to get
• 50:12
  upset if the players don't do what you want.
• 50:15
  Yeah, like you're, you're, you're leaving it really
• 50:17
  open-ended. They're going to try a million
• 50:19
  different things, especially because, again, this is all like
• 50:24
  a shared brain space that we're describing to each other.
• 50:28
  So they might go down some wild fucking tangents you could have
• 50:33
  never predicted because in their head, you know, oh, this kind of
• 50:38
  made sense. And in your head that doesn't
• 50:40
  make sense. But you know, whatever little
• 50:43
  bit of information just didn't line up.
• 50:47
  So yeah, if you want to make it really open-ended and just say
• 50:51
  investigate the house, you can. But you got to have that
• 50:55
  patience. And when they get close to a
• 50:59
  breadcrumb, you got to give them the breadcrumb.
• 51:01
  You know, like, don't be overly stingy.
• 51:03
  You have to give them the breadcrumb up to and including
• 51:07
  moving the breadcrumb so that they miraculously find it
• 51:10
  anyway. Yeah, sometimes.
• 51:12
  Sometimes that's the option, Yeah.
• 51:15
  Because you know, much like, much like when you do the thing
• 51:19
  where you had a plan for a bunch of enemies to be in a room and
• 51:25
  then you decide for them not to be in the room because the
• 51:27
  sessions already run for three hours and you don't want to do a
• 51:30
  fight right now and you just take the enemies out.
• 51:33
  Your players don't know. So if your players go to find
• 51:36
  the knife and they look in the kitchen, but the knife was
• 51:39
  supposed to be in the bedroom, just put the fucking knife in
• 51:42
  the kitchen. They won't know unless you told
• 51:47
  them before. Some like, like if you did not
• 51:51
  establish that logic of the world at some point, then they
• 51:54
  won't know you're fine. And again, dovetailing off of
• 52:04
  always giving them actionable prompts, the next one, the next
• 52:09
  little trick here is never halt the progress of events.
• 52:15
  This is a really big deal. This is this is something you
• 52:21
  can apply to running RPGs across the board, but I think it is
• 52:26
  especially true when you're running a mystery.
• 52:29
  If the players mess up, they don't find something, they throw
• 52:33
  things off course or they just generally putts around.
• 52:36
  That doesn't mean everything around them just stops doing
• 52:39
  stuff, right? It's not.
• 52:42
  It's not a video game like Dishonored where you break into
• 52:47
  the building and if you do not attack the guards, they just
• 52:51
  keep walking in a circle, right? That's not what we're doing
• 52:53
  here. Stuff is still gonna happen.
• 52:56
  So if they're tracking a murderer down but they failed to
• 53:00
  get any closer to finding him, that doesn't mean that the
• 53:04
  murderer just sits around and twiddles his thumb and does
• 53:07
  nothing. The character has agency and
• 53:11
  will push forward with their goals regardless of what the
• 53:13
  players are doing. So the murderer will probably go
• 53:17
  and kill another person or perhaps start stalking another
• 53:19
  person, or maybe they, you know, break into someone's house for
• 53:23
  like a, you know, whatever objective they're trying to do.
• 53:26
  But the point is, is even if the players fuck up and fail and
• 53:29
  find absolutely nothing, keep pushing events forward.
• 53:33
  Because eventually if you just keep pushing things forward, the
• 53:37
  players are going to run into the action at some point.
• 53:40
  If you're, you know, if you're doing your job right, you know,
• 53:45
  easy. With the murderer example, easy.
• 53:47
  Let's say the player, the players spend 3 sessions and
• 53:50
  just do not get any closer to finding this guy.
• 53:54
  Obviously the murderer just comes for them at some point,
• 53:57
  right? He tries to kill them.
• 53:58
  Easy illusion. Yeah, I mean, that's literally,
• 54:03
  I'm sorry. That's literally what happened
• 54:05
  with Ulrich, right? You're like, oh, we've done
• 54:07
  something. We are kind of sure that it's
• 54:10
  going to be him. We don't know.
• 54:12
  And we can't really make any actionable decision until we
• 54:14
  find out. And he just so happens to, you
• 54:18
  know, kool-aid man, kool-aid man his way through the barn that we
• 54:22
  were sleeping in and we're like, oh, yes, there he is.
• 54:25
  Nice. Yeah.
• 54:29
  And again, yeah, because you, you didn't do anything to
• 54:33
  immediately impede him or the Baron in that moment.
• 54:35
  And it would make sense that the Baron, you know, learns that you
• 54:41
  were doing fuck shittery with his his priest and he is like,
• 54:45
  well, I'm going to need you to go get my priest back for me.
• 54:49
  Like the Baron push is pushing his goals forward because he's a
• 54:54
  character with a if you know, if you're GM ING the way you
• 54:56
  should, he's a character with agency.
• 54:59
  He's not just going to stop for no particular reason.
• 55:02
  This is another one of those big things that Apocalypse Rd.
• 55:04
  really hammers home, where that character's have their own goals
• 55:07
  and are just gonna do shit. I think D&D sometimes people
• 55:13
  have a habit of locking certain things into stasis, right?
• 55:19
  Like, oh I want the players to go to the Dungeon of the Dragon
• 55:22
  Cult and then they puss around doing something else for a long
• 55:26
  time. And so the Dungeon of the Dragon
• 55:28
  Cult is just locked in time in a perfect stasis because the GM is
• 55:32
  like, well, but I want them to go to the thing.
• 55:35
  Yeah. And it's like you want to try
• 55:37
  and avoid that. Like you could do it.
• 55:40
  Look, sometimes it's fine. Sometimes it just makes sense to
• 55:42
  be like, I'm just not going to push this forward because it
• 55:44
  just I would just rather we not. It'll be fun if they go there.
• 55:48
  Sometimes it's fine. But I think particularly when
• 55:50
  you're talking about this running like the mystery
• 55:52
  scenario, it's it's a cat and mouse game, right?
• 55:56
  The players are investigating the person, the person they're
• 55:59
  investigating is trying to do something, right?
• 56:02
  If it's a robber, he's trying to rob every bank in the city and
• 56:05
  the players are trying to chase him down like they're trying to
• 56:07
  do something. So when you're in this mystery
• 56:09
  situation, I think it makes it especially makes sense to keep
• 56:14
  pushing whatever the the other side of the table the enemy
• 56:18
  narrative is. I don't know if you have
• 56:22
  anything to add on that one. No, no.
• 56:24
  I mean, the only thing I, I would add is, you know, I, I've,
• 56:28
  I've definitely done the put a pause on things for the sake of
• 56:32
  like my personal sense of pacing and not really anything that
• 56:35
  that's conducive to the story. And I think, yeah, if you have
• 56:38
  an inclination to do that, I don't think you should not do
• 56:40
  it. I think Apocalypse World has a
• 56:43
  tie, is a specific evocative game, in which case you want to
• 56:48
  do that. All right.
• 56:52
  Keep in mind that if you hold out on it too hard, you yourself
• 56:57
  get complacent in your own idea of what the pace should be, and
• 57:01
  then you sort of stifle any ability to break that pace.
• 57:05
  I've done this. So I would say never throw the
• 57:10
  stakes away, never throw the time frame away, but it can be
• 57:15
  difficult to find a balance for letting the players fuck up,
• 57:18
  letting them figure things out and not constantly walloping
• 57:21
  them over the head with consequences.
• 57:24
  You're you should figure it out, but you are going to have to
• 57:27
  figure it out. I think it is absolutely
• 57:28
  something worthwhile. Yeah, yeah, you definitely
• 57:41
  locking yourself into your own idea of how the pacing should
• 57:46
  go. I think it's just a dangerous GM
• 57:50
  habit in general. Like it's a, it's a, it's a,
• 57:54
  it's a pitfall trap that people can definitely catch themselves
• 57:58
  in a lot if they're not careful for sure.
• 58:01
  And it's understandable. I I I get why it happens, you
• 58:05
  know, especially for newer GMs. No, it's, it's, it's a valid
• 58:08
  thing to do, right? Because you go, oh, but I
• 58:09
  planned all this stuff. I don't want them to miss it.
• 58:11
  And like, yeah, no, that I, that shit sucks, my guy.
• 58:17
  But sometimes them missing it. Well, so first of all, you have
• 58:23
  to sort of shift your perspective.
• 58:24
  They're not missing it. They're missing the, the big
• 58:28
  reveal you planned, but they're still getting the thing.
• 58:32
  They're just getting a different perspective on that thing.
• 58:36
  And you have to be willing to shift your perspective and
• 58:40
  theirs to a really, what's the word I'm looking for?
• 58:48
  It really capitalized all that cool stuff that you want to do.
• 58:52
  Yeah, so final tip, the the the Hail Mary, if everything else
• 59:02
  goes wrong, make sure you always have a RIP cord to pull.
• 59:10
  Yes. I think I say you probably know
• 59:13
  where I'm going to go with this even without looking at it.
• 59:15
  I don't know if you did look at it or not, but I'm sure you
• 59:17
  could guess. No, yeah, I I didn't.
• 59:18
  But I can absolutely guess. Yeah, you always want to have
• 59:22
  your ripcord. So this is basically the idea.
• 59:25
  This is an idea that what Matt Colville refers to as Orcs
• 59:28
  attack. It's the idea that whenever
• 59:32
  things come to a complete halt where the players have lost any
• 59:35
  momentum, you basically jump them with something that forces
• 59:40
  action, right? So the way Colville explains it,
• 59:44
  and the reason he calls it orcs attack is if the PCs sit down to
• 59:49
  camp or something along those lines and they have no clue what
• 59:52
  to do. So you have orcs attack them
• 59:56
  suddenly. And the reason you do this is it
• 1:00:00
  solves the immediate problem of the session being boring
• 1:00:03
  because, you know, now, oh, we're being attacked by orcs,
• 1:00:06
  there's a fight going on. So it solves like the monotony
• 1:00:08
  of nothing going on. And then it will also likely
• 1:00:12
  kick the players into gear because their next thought is
• 1:00:14
  going to be where the fuck did those orcs come from and why did
• 1:00:17
  they attack us? So now the ball has gotten
• 1:00:20
  rolling in. In the mystery framing, this
• 1:00:25
  would be basically throwing a blatant answer to the problem in
• 1:00:29
  their lap. They've hit a complete dead end
• 1:00:33
  and things have gotten to a have gone to a standstill.
• 1:00:36
  So you have an NPC suspect, one of the suspects like walk into
• 1:00:41
  the room and explain all of his plans.
• 1:00:45
  Without the PCs? No, without the without him
• 1:00:48
  knowing that the PCs. Are hearing him.
• 1:00:50
  I have a perfect example of this.
• 1:00:52
  OK. So I'm watching Hannibal right
• 1:00:54
  now and. As we as we established.
• 1:00:59
  Right, right. And a big part of it right is
• 1:01:01
  clearly one of the the deuteragonists class antagonists
• 1:01:04
  of the show. Hannibal Lecter is a cannibal
• 1:01:06
  shocker. I don't know if anything knew
• 1:01:09
  that. And every time they want to be
• 1:01:12
  cheeky, every time they're like there's a new victim, where are
• 1:01:17
  their organs? And it will hard cut to Hannibal
• 1:01:20
  preparing dinner for someone. And it's actually not always
• 1:01:27
  human, like awful or or like tissue besides where he's like,
• 1:01:30
  Oh yeah, it's chicken and he's clearly making chicken or like
• 1:01:33
  it's a vegetable dish. But the fact that the the
• 1:01:38
  character Will, Will Graham, the male character or the the main
• 1:01:41
  character, he's he's male. But like every time he's like
• 1:01:46
  someone is doing this thing. And then Jack Crawford's like,
• 1:01:49
  Oh yeah, actually. So I was just about to head over
• 1:01:51
  to Hannibal's for dinner and like it, it keeps happening and
• 1:01:55
  it to to the viewer. It's a cheeky aside, but you can
• 1:01:58
  absolutely use that within the narrative for if your players
• 1:02:03
  are looking for a weird serial killer who steals people's
• 1:02:06
  organs. And every time they're
• 1:02:08
  discussing it, you have a chef character who's like special
• 1:02:13
  order new, you know, you know, kidney fucking, you know,
• 1:02:16
  whatever it is, kidney tartar. And the player's like, oh, that
• 1:02:20
  does sound pretty good. Anyway, what are you talking
• 1:02:21
  about again? And then like, is it keeps
• 1:02:23
  happening? They're going to be like, wait,
• 1:02:24
  a. Minute yeah, I think what was
• 1:02:27
  that is the. Victim missing?
• 1:02:29
  Yeah, his liver. Looks at the special for the
• 1:02:33
  day. Liver stakes.
• 1:02:34
  Oh, I'm sure it's nothing like. Yeah, not related.
• 1:02:40
  Now, I will say both the example I just said and the example that
• 1:02:46
  Isaiah was giving there are a little blunt, right?
• 1:02:50
  Like you could do it a little more tactfully, a little more
• 1:02:53
  slyly if you want. But the basic idea is throw
• 1:02:57
  something at the players that they have no choice but to
• 1:03:00
  respond to. You're pulling the emergency RIP
• 1:03:03
  cord to keep things going because you sense that, you
• 1:03:07
  know, they don't know what to do.
• 1:03:09
  The momentum is lost. I don't know how to easily get
• 1:03:13
  them back on track. Yank the RIP cord.
• 1:03:17
  You know. Break what is it break glass in
• 1:03:20
  case of emergency like that kind of shit.
• 1:03:23
  Have that in the back pocket yeah be and you know and what
• 1:03:31
  that even what the ripcord might look like.
• 1:03:34
  Maybe it's not even necessarily answering the mystery.
• 1:03:38
  Maybe it's just putting the players in a whole new scenario
• 1:03:41
  where the mystery has now become irrelevant because they're just
• 1:03:45
  they have to solve a totally new problem.
• 1:03:46
  Like, you know, maybe maybe you don't want to deal with the
• 1:03:49
  mystery anymore. So you have the players get
• 1:03:51
  arrested and thrown into like, you know, a a weird gladiator
• 1:03:57
  arena situation because you're like, fuck it, fuck this mystery
• 1:04:01
  shit. I'm just going to show them who
• 1:04:02
  the villain is and the villain's going to throw them in a
• 1:04:04
  gladiator ring with a mutated bear monster, You know, like
• 1:04:11
  whatever method you want to go about it, but have that RIP cord
• 1:04:14
  in the back of your mind at all times.
• 1:04:18
  I actually sort of kind of pulled the RIP cord a little bit
• 1:04:22
  in a sense with Fabula, kind of. OK.
• 1:04:28
  Not exactly, but having the Baron pull the Resident Evil
• 1:04:32
  thing and turning into a monster was a little bit me pulling the
• 1:04:35
  ripcord. It was, yeah.
• 1:04:37
  And I, I, I originally, I thought that was going to be
• 1:04:38
  your original. I don't know why I I doubted
• 1:04:41
  myself first like. Well, you thought that was going
• 1:04:45
  to be my example. Originally, yeah.
• 1:04:47
  And then when you when you did that and when you said that just
• 1:04:50
  now, I was like, wait a minute, Am I gaslighting myself?
• 1:04:52
  Yeah, it, it, it wasn't. I didn't, I don't quite count
• 1:04:58
  that as pulling the RIP cord 100% 'cause you guys had figured
• 1:05:01
  out the main crux of the mystery itself, right?
• 1:05:03
  The the murders being committed by the guy who was being turned
• 1:05:07
  into a werewolf, and he was being forced to do it by the
• 1:05:10
  Baron because the Baron had blackmail on him, right?
• 1:05:12
  Or, well, 'cause the Baron was threatening his daughter.
• 1:05:15
  But so, like, you figured out the crux of the mystery.
• 1:05:17
  So I didn't consider it a RIP cord so much because you got the
• 1:05:20
  the mystery was solved. The only reason it was a little
• 1:05:25
  bit of a RIP cord is because I wanted to do like, you know, the
• 1:05:29
  cool boss fight at the end. And I wasn't sure how to go
• 1:05:32
  about the cool boss fight at the end because you had circumvented
• 1:05:36
  the werewolf problem so handily. So I was like, OK, how do I work
• 1:05:42
  back in some kind of a boss fight situation?
• 1:05:44
  And that was where the Baron turning into a macho.
• 1:05:46
  I was like, that does the job, You know what I mean?
• 1:05:49
  Yeah. And in a way, it's kind of more
• 1:05:51
  interesting because now now it's turned into a whole potentially
• 1:05:57
  new thing in the future, so. I was so I was going to bring
• 1:06:02
  that up. I mean, like I I think it would
• 1:06:04
  be valid to just be like, Oh well, they they they did the
• 1:06:07
  thing to to circumvent the fight, let that happen.
• 1:06:11
  But if you, like, you did it specifically to create a
• 1:06:16
  recurring villain, right? Like, yes, you wanted the boss
• 1:06:19
  fight, but it's like the game literally says to bring villains
• 1:06:22
  back and reintroduce them and make them more interesting.
• 1:06:25
  I would say to those of you listening, if you're doing it
• 1:06:30
  just for like, 'cause you're like, well, they figured out, I
• 1:06:33
  don't want to make it easy for them, which is not what you did.
• 1:06:36
  But like, if that's what you're feeling, then don't do that.
• 1:06:39
  Well, I sort of. Well, here's The funny thing.
• 1:06:45
  I wasn't in originally intending him to be a reoccurring A
• 1:06:50
  villain. I actually thought he would get
• 1:06:52
  like trounced and that would kind of be it.
• 1:06:54
  But once I started leaning into the idea of you guys actually
• 1:06:59
  fighting him directly, I was like then I started to think
• 1:07:03
  maybe he should be a reoccurring A villain.
• 1:07:05
  So it sort of spawned out of that.
• 1:07:07
  I did it first kind of just I wanted to have that boss right
• 1:07:10
  there as mostly because I thought it would be fun, you
• 1:07:15
  know, like a good way to kind of wrap it.
• 1:07:18
  And my original plan was basically going to be something
• 1:07:23
  along the lines of you corner the Baron and then he sticks the
• 1:07:26
  werewolf on you guys, right? But because of the way you
• 1:07:31
  circumvented, I was like, well, so that's not going to work
• 1:07:34
  anymore and I'm not going to try.
• 1:07:36
  And like, I could have tried to contrive away where you still
• 1:07:39
  fought your Rick in his werewolf form if I really wanted, but I
• 1:07:41
  was like, that would feel really weird.
• 1:07:44
  So that that's what I was saying is like, if, if it makes sense
• 1:07:48
  for the narrative and it's interesting, then do it, but
• 1:07:52
  don't contrive it because you want the werewolf boss fighter
• 1:07:55
  yet. Like so perfect example.
• 1:07:57
  Yeah, I think I brought this up before in in the one of the two
• 1:08:01
  campaigns that self destructed at the finish line, the the
• 1:08:05
  situation where we had to take down the like evil ruler of the
• 1:08:09
  of the Kingdom. And the players.
• 1:08:12
  And I was a guest in this spent months preparing like session
• 1:08:16
  after session, getting their allies together, setting up a
• 1:08:18
  plan, subverting the monarch in like very subtle ways.
• 1:08:22
  So when they did the attack, you wouldn't be able to stop them.
• 1:08:26
  They did this for months. And when it finally came to it,
• 1:08:31
  we had the evil monarch like soared to his throat like
• 1:08:34
  surrender. And then he turned into an
• 1:08:37
  ancient dragon. And then all of that months of
• 1:08:42
  prep gone because you wanted, you're like, you know what?
• 1:08:45
  It's going to subvert the expectation.
• 1:08:48
  Like don't do that. And what Josh did and what that
• 1:08:53
  is two different things. And they are subtle but very,
• 1:08:56
  very comprehensive differences. There's a fine line, I mean I I
• 1:09:00
  do think. I think the main thing was that
• 1:09:03
  the solution I came up with didn't feel overly contrived,
• 1:09:07
  right? It, it felt like it would make
• 1:09:09
  sense and it, it felt like it could potentially make sense.
• 1:09:13
  And it was like on genre, right? It was, yeah.
• 1:09:17
  So smooshing those two things together, staying on genre and
• 1:09:24
  it being a solution that feels like it logically follows what
• 1:09:27
  was going on helps a lot. Now, there may have been a
• 1:09:32
  degree of, it makes sense that the King guy turned into a
• 1:09:35
  dragon. I, I don't know because I wasn't
• 1:09:37
  there for that situation. But it feels like, yeah, if it
• 1:09:41
  feels like a little too much of an asshole, that's where things
• 1:09:43
  get tough. There was, it was not much of an
• 1:09:47
  inclination. It's that we subverted the boss
• 1:09:49
  fight that the GM expected, right?
• 1:09:52
  They, the players, planned their way around it.
• 1:09:54
  And he kind of last minute was like, all right, we're going to
• 1:09:57
  do this instead. You think?
• 1:09:58
  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's because Fizz bands
• 1:10:01
  had just come out. So sorry, it wasn't Andrew
• 1:10:03
  Dragon. It was a great worm.
• 1:10:04
  And the GM had, like, a nasty habit of like, this new book
• 1:10:07
  came out. I'm going to immediately, like,
• 1:10:09
  put the, like, ham, whatever's coming in.
• 1:10:11
  Yeah. And to be fair, we didn't end up
• 1:10:16
  fighting him as a boss. He flew away to become the like
• 1:10:19
  end game Borderlands raid boss or like the MMO raid boss.
• 1:10:23
  But the damage was kind of done at that point, right?
• 1:10:25
  Like, it's like you, you shit all over this thing that they
• 1:10:27
  spent weeks planning because you wanted to do a cool thing.
• 1:10:32
  Yeah, don't do that. That's not good.
• 1:10:35
  Yeah, it is a delicate wine line to walk though, I will admit.
• 1:10:38
  It is. No, I look, I have absolutely
• 1:10:40
  fucked it up too. I'm not saying I'm perfect and
• 1:10:43
  I'm not saying it's easy. It's just something you need to
• 1:10:45
  be cognizant. Yeah, so those are my, those are
• 1:10:52
  my main tips. I do, I want to throw in a
• 1:10:55
  little bonus 1 and I call this a bonus one because I don't know
• 1:10:58
  if everyone is going to want to use this or if use it all the
• 1:11:02
  time, but I think it was particularly helpful in in this
• 1:11:06
  instance. So I'm running Fabula Ultima,
• 1:11:10
  right? And Fabula Ultima has a very
• 1:11:12
  specific mechanic that it refers to as AGM scene.
• 1:11:17
  And I think these GM scenes have a lot of value for running the
• 1:11:22
  mystery style mission without getting too bogged down in
• 1:11:26
  worrying about can the players. Are the players smart enough to
• 1:11:30
  solve it type scenario. So the the mechanic in Fabio
• 1:11:35
  Ultima for the GM scene is basically you just you run a
• 1:11:37
  scene of what the villains are up to without the PCs being
• 1:11:42
  present. It's like a video game style
• 1:11:45
  cutscene where the players see the villains scheming or doing
• 1:11:49
  something, but the main characters are not present.
• 1:11:52
  So it creates a, a dramatic irony between the players and
• 1:11:56
  their characters because they as the players, you know, you as
• 1:12:00
  the GM describe it to the players, their characters did
• 1:12:04
  not see it. This is particularly helpful
• 1:12:09
  when running a mystery because you could give the players
• 1:12:12
  really clear, obvious information on a meta level that
• 1:12:17
  they can then play their that they can then use to play their
• 1:12:20
  characters in such a fashion where they steer their
• 1:12:23
  characters towards the goal. So for example, what you know
• 1:12:29
  what I did, the players arrive in the town, I did AGM scene
• 1:12:34
  where the Baron was talking to his advisor, scientist, priest
• 1:12:38
  buddy, and there was this mysterious magic flower sitting
• 1:12:44
  in a glass Dome that he had sitting on his desk and they
• 1:12:48
  were talking about it. So now the players know as soon
• 1:12:52
  as they as soon as they got to the town where this mission was
• 1:12:55
  going on, the players know, OK, that flower thing is important
• 1:12:59
  for some reason. So we probably need to work
• 1:13:02
  towards that. The characters don't know that,
• 1:13:05
  but the players can make certain decisions about what their
• 1:13:08
  characters would do that will push them in that direction.
• 1:13:11
  And it will feel, you know, like, oh, what a coincidence
• 1:13:16
  that we happen to go to the correct place to get the
• 1:13:18
  information. But you know, it's a game we're
• 1:13:21
  all playing on a meta level, so it's fine.
• 1:13:25
  The thing you have to keep in mind, and the reason some people
• 1:13:28
  might not want to do this is you are somewhat solving the mystery
• 1:13:35
  for the players a little bit. So you might want to like
• 1:13:40
  consider how you use this method.
• 1:13:44
  But like we said at the start, we're not really running a
• 1:13:47
  mystery focused game. We're throwing in a mystery
• 1:13:50
  style mission to kind of change the pace up a little bit.
• 1:13:54
  So solving it a little, you know, solving bits and pieces
• 1:13:58
  for the players, I don't think it's that egregious personally,
• 1:14:02
  but you might not want to do it. I think you know.
• 1:14:06
  There is this desire right to or or there's this belief that
• 1:14:14
  players, once they know something on a player level,
• 1:14:17
  will automatically use it to their advantage narratively,
• 1:14:22
  which shows, you know, an unfortunate and distinct lack of
• 1:14:27
  trust in your players. And I'm not saying that people
• 1:14:32
  do it on purpose, but like. Yeah, it's the whole meta gaming
• 1:14:35
  thing. Yeah, it's like you people at
• 1:14:37
  your table are adults. If they are taking advantage of
• 1:14:40
  the meta knowledge, you have a right as AGM to check them on
• 1:14:45
  that meta knowledge, right? Be like your character wouldn't
• 1:14:47
  know that. You know that.
• 1:14:49
  So now you have a direction to go in that you can sort of
• 1:14:53
  subtly use to influence your character's decisions, but you
• 1:14:57
  do not know it. And the truth, it's also how you
• 1:15:01
  utilize the meta knowledge, right?
• 1:15:02
  If you're utilizing the meta knowledge to just like, make
• 1:15:06
  things not fun, yeah. I mean, you know.
• 1:15:09
  Like you, if you do AGM scene and the players go, I know it's
• 1:15:12
  him, yeah. And you're like, no, you don't.
• 1:15:17
  So, but you said it's like I told you, your player, it's
• 1:15:22
  like, it's literally baby's first RPG.
• 1:15:23
  It's like you, you don't know that you know what I mean?
• 1:15:26
  It's it's the I know this monsters week to fire, but my
• 1:15:30
  character probably wouldn't. So I'm not going to immediately
• 1:15:32
  go for the fire attack. Maybe I will on like the third
• 1:15:36
  turn or something. You know, that kind of a vibe.
• 1:15:39
  Yeah, and that's that's more interesting when you're like,
• 1:15:42
  you know, that you're not going to do that much damage to the
• 1:15:45
  troll round one and round two. But it'll create a really cool
• 1:15:49
  narrative moment because you know about the fire thing that
• 1:15:55
  you know, maybe your characters like, I don't know, burn foul
• 1:15:59
  demon and you'd like wing your torch at it for some fire damage
• 1:16:02
  and it recoils. You know what I mean?
• 1:16:05
  Yeah. And now you've created the
• 1:16:07
  narrative knowledge to the other players who can now capitalize
• 1:16:11
  on it, and the GM got to do their cool thing where you're
• 1:16:14
  not hurting it. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's all
• 1:16:21
  about, yeah, it's a, it's a delicate balance of how to
• 1:16:25
  utilize it, which is why I gave it as like a bonus tip because I
• 1:16:28
  could see some people not wanting to do it.
• 1:16:31
  But, you know, I also just think, I don't know, for me
• 1:16:35
  personally, I think about when it happens in video games
• 1:16:39
  because video games do this all the time, right?
• 1:16:41
  The dramatic irony is the idea that you as the viewer or the
• 1:16:46
  reader or the watcher or the game player, you have
• 1:16:51
  information that the main character lacks.
• 1:16:54
  So the main character starts doing stuff and then you like,
• 1:16:58
  if you're watching it, you know, if you're read it, it's used a
• 1:17:00
  lot in books. If you're reading and you go, oh
• 1:17:03
  shit, he's making this decision, which I know is absolutely a bad
• 1:17:08
  idea because I have knowledge that the main character doesn't
• 1:17:11
  have. It creates that really fun
• 1:17:15
  tension and I think having the dramatic irony between your
• 1:17:23
  player and your like between you as your player and your
• 1:17:27
  character could be potentially really fun if you if you utilize
• 1:17:32
  it well and don't just try to use it as an I win button.
• 1:17:37
  Completely agree. And you know, like, I just like,
• 1:17:40
  you know, I think about the scenes in like Final Fantasy 14
• 1:17:43
  where everyone always mentions the meanwhile at the Empire.
• 1:17:47
  And one of the reasons those are so fun is because you get to see
• 1:17:49
  the bad guys do the bad guy thing and you get some more
• 1:17:51
  characterization out of them. But it's also because you as the
• 1:17:55
  player are like, oh, Zenos was talking about this E this weapon
• 1:18:00
  he has. I wonder what that's going to
• 1:18:01
  be. And then as you're playing
• 1:18:02
  through the story, you're like, when am I going to see him again
• 1:18:05
  to see his cool weapon thingy, you know?
• 1:18:07
  So now you're invested in, you know, the next couple of hours,
• 1:18:11
  hopefully I'm going to see that pay off or what that might be.
• 1:18:17
  It's just that, yeah, it's just a, it's a fun tool.
• 1:18:19
  But I I understand if AGM is like I don't want to do that
• 1:18:25
  fair, but consider it at least give it a thinky, do a little
• 1:18:30
  thinky thought. I mean, I feel like I I I feel
• 1:18:33
  like GM seems should be a universal thing even if you're
• 1:18:37
  not using it to directly talk about the the villain or show
• 1:18:39
  him like. And, and it's really, it goes
• 1:18:42
  back to, and this is a huge complaint with a lot of GMs. My
• 1:18:44
  players don't let me do my big bad guy speech.
• 1:18:47
  Well, yeah, they can't stop you if they're not there, right?
• 1:18:50
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 1:18:52
  GMC, I think AGMC has a lot of potential and it's it's you can
• 1:18:58
  use it in basically every game. Like, I can't think of any game
• 1:19:02
  where that wouldn't work. So yeah, fucking go for it.
• 1:19:11
  And you know, maybe you use it a little bit and maybe you have
• 1:19:14
  players who, I don't know, overly abuse it, or maybe you
• 1:19:17
  just find it awkward to do or something.
• 1:19:19
  And then, all right, well, you gave it a shot.
• 1:19:22
  Yeah, I mean, just just because it tried and didn't work doesn't
• 1:19:24
  mean that you shouldn't try it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:34
  That's the that's all folks. That's the end of the notes.
• 1:19:38
  Anything you want to tag tag on the end here.
• 1:19:43
  No, other than I mean, so I guess yes, keep this in the back
• 1:19:48
  of your minds. Keep this episode in the back of
• 1:19:50
  your minds because I've been reading Cane, which is straight
• 1:19:54
  up an investigation game. So this stuff will become
• 1:19:57
  relevant very soon, like roughly 2 weeks soon.
• 1:20:07
  Yeah, I, I, I haven't read it yet, but I'm interested.
• 1:20:12
  I don't I I wonder if I would call that game full on an
• 1:20:16
  investigation game per SE, or if it floats a little somewhere in
• 1:20:20
  the middle, but. No, I mean it is, it is what it
• 1:20:23
  is primarily an investigation game because the combat, like,
• 1:20:28
  like combat is just a series of skill checks.
• 1:20:31
  There is straight up no bespoke combat in the conventional sense
• 1:20:37
  because like there's no equipment in the game, right?
• 1:20:39
  Like you have narrative equipment, but you're you have a
• 1:20:43
  service weapon. Like there's no like sword and
• 1:20:47
  gun do the same thing because it's all about the narrative and
• 1:20:50
  what your stats say. The game is all about finding
• 1:20:53
  the sins traumas and then when you actually confront the sin
• 1:20:57
  using the traumas against it. And that is really how you do
• 1:21:01
  most damage to the sin and how you fight it without getting
• 1:21:04
  annihilated. They hit like a truck, OK?
• 1:21:11
  Yeah, I'll have to see how. I'm curious to see how the game
• 1:21:16
  describes it and all that and utilizes it because like, I
• 1:21:20
  think about how. My brain just sorry, my brain
• 1:21:29
  just shit the bed. I think about how people will
• 1:21:33
  sometimes describe Monster of the Week as in like an
• 1:21:36
  investigation mystery game and it's kind of not.
• 1:21:40
  It has that element to it, but it is just a small portion that
• 1:21:46
  you tend to like answer. You tend to answer the
• 1:21:50
  investigation quite quickly in that game because the point is,
• 1:21:54
  you go to the scene, what kind of monster is it?
• 1:21:57
  It's this kind of monster, OK, what's the monster's weakness?
• 1:21:59
  It's this weakness, OK, go beat the monster's ass.
• 1:22:02
  You know? So that game, I would not say is
• 1:22:07
  a full blown investigation game. In a way, it almost skips over
• 1:22:11
  the investigation a little bit because it gives you a move to
• 1:22:13
  answer investigation questions directly.
• 1:22:16
  Right. You know, so with now it, it, it
• 1:22:19
  depends on what you're talking about.
• 1:22:20
  You say investigation because when it comes to Kane, right,
• 1:22:23
  part of your briefing is that you are specifically told what
• 1:22:27
  kind of synonym, so you know automatically what to look for.
• 1:22:33
  When it comes to the trauma questions, you literally get
• 1:22:35
  like questions that you as players and characters answer
• 1:22:38
  based on this since traumas, but the investigation is not like
• 1:22:44
  one second. Oh.
• 1:22:50
  Sorry about that. Investigation is not what
• 1:22:54
  monster are we dealing with, it's why are we dealing with,
• 1:22:57
  right. It's an investigation under a
• 1:23:00
  different question. OK, Yeah, I think you're going
• 1:23:09
  to like game a lot, yeah. I mean, I'll have to look at it
• 1:23:11
  to to to fully grasp how it goes about it.
• 1:23:19
  OK, good. That's all folks.
• 1:23:22
  Yeah, I'm nothing that I just thought I had some interesting
• 1:23:26
  ideas about. You know, I had some little
• 1:23:28
  tiddly bits of advice about how you could potentially go about
• 1:23:30
  doing an investigation in your game without it being fucking
• 1:23:34
  annoying. Because I think that's the big
• 1:23:37
  problem. A lot of time they end up
• 1:23:39
  fucking annoying. Right.
• 1:23:42
  And you know you always want to try and avoid that because
• 1:23:45
  nobody sits down to play DND to be frustrated and annoyed.
• 1:23:48
  That shit's. Infuriating.
• 1:23:51
  No bueno. No bueno for the for the dogs.
• 1:23:56
  Yeah, and you don't don't sit down and play D&D then spend 12
• 1:23:59
  weeks trying to figure out invest.
• 1:24:02
  You don't want to, usually, no. Yeah.
• 1:24:07
  Especially if you know the GM won't even give you the common
• 1:24:09
  fucking courtesy of actually murdering the final boss.
• 1:24:11
  It's fine. You know it's fine.
• 1:24:16
  You know I still killed. Him.
• 1:24:17
  That's all that matters. Fair enough.
• 1:24:23
  If you heard like a like a water, you would hear.
• 1:24:26
  Give us the follow on the twitters or the blue skies if
• 1:24:30
  you so desire. Yeah, this has been K1O4, XFM
• 1:24:39
  Rock City Banana. Elvis Duran on the Morning Zoo.
• 1:24:42
  Oh, I'm right. That was my favorite radio show
• 1:24:45
  as a kid. It's don't know that one.
• 1:24:48
  I did just think about that one meme, though, where it's like
• 1:24:51
  the the the dwarf radio who just go talk about rock and stone or
• 1:24:55
  whatever. Good meme.
• 1:24:59
  All right, I'm hitting the button now all.
• 1:25:01
  Right, I will be. Oh no, I'm dying, these
• 1:25:05
  motherfuckers.