Latest / RESHAPED / Episode 4: Noah Mata P.1 | From Finding Jesus to Planting a Church

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Episode 4: Noah Mata P.1 | From Finding Jesus to Planting a Church · RESHAPED

• Aaron: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Reshaped Podcast. Super excited for the conversation I get to share with you guys today. today I have a long conversation with a very good friend of mine named Noah Mart. It was about three hours long, so I'm gonna do this in two parts. This will be part one and then I'll do part two next next week. But yeah, in this conversation with Noah part one here, we get to talking about his upbringing, his background, what led him to become a Christian and We talk about some of the influential people in his life that really helped shape the man he is. we talk about where his love for the poor and serving the marginalized and the needy came from, which is I think really, really helpful context and really inspiring too. and we talk about his time on staff. He served on staff in our family of churches. We talk about that. And also his his journey to planting a church in DC called Capital Collective. We talk about the the good stuff. the the mistakes, and yeah, the victories. And it it was very, very very good just to to listen and and hear his perspectives on things. and then part two, I won't talk to you about two part two too much, but there's a lot of different things we talk about, his theological changes, things that he's been wrestling with. and then also we talk about just yeah, how he deals interdenominationally, with with different church traditions and I think that's really helpful too. And we talk about spiritual like warfare, which is which is cool too. But I'll save all that for the next the next episode, next intro. All right. Hope you enjoy this conversation with Noah. Okay, hello and welcome back to the Reshape Podcast. You're here with Aaron and this is the place where we are seeking to bring Christian formation through thoughtful examination and conversation. And am I excited for today because we have a great conversation lined up. I'm gonna do an intro, I'm doing for all my all my f my guests and then we'll we'll get to chatting. But this guy, he number one, he's Filipino, so we're already connected in that way. But he's a good friend. we met back from memory and we'll correct each other, I'm sure. He'll correct me where we get stuff wrong. But we met back in, I believe, twenty fifteen. We met in the Philippines on a volunteering trip. and so it was actually in the Philippines we were in this this this volunteering trip and it was a great time. I'm sure we chatted about that a little bit. He is a Christian, and he was part of our family part of our family of churches for a very long time. right now, not necessarily officially part of it. again, he might he'll correct me here, but but he's still heavily connected, has relationships throughout, and is very grateful for it. He has served in our family of churches in full-time ministry. He's been on staff, he's led a church in DC, he's served in all different types of ministries. Now he is based in Denver, Colorado, working as the church engagement director with a Christian advocacy organization called Bread for the World and doing an amazing job with that. And so keen to to talk about that for sure. he had back in the day. He had his own podcast as well called The Messy Middle, where he was where he explored what it was like to live in between, navigating different cultures and generations and perspectives in a world that tries to kind of tell us to pick its idea. So he had a great podcast there. I loved that podcast when it was up. and maybe we'll come back one day. We'll see. he's also a very successful very successfully side questing stand up comedy, which is so cool. he's a very talented stand up comedian. And recently he actually headlined his own show in Washington DC called Three Point Sermon, which is which is awesome. And one day we're gonna get clips of that, I'm sure. he loves sport, basketball, soccer. He even coaches boys and girls boys sorry, boys soccer. and he also coach coaches basketball as well. He's done he's done it all. He's done it all. He can sing, he can dance, he's got he's got he's got the whole package and he's experienced a lot. He's a fountain of wisdom. He absolutely loves God, loves Jesus, and we are very, very, very excited to have him on this show today. and have a conversation. And so without further ado, my Filipino brother from Another Mother, please welcome to the Reshape Podcast, Noah Mada. Noah brother, padepare. Noah Mata: and Aaron: man, dude. Dude. Nah, man. That's I'm I'm sure I miss stuff. Yes. I know. dude, dude. I Noah Mata: I was like, wait, you talking about me? Aaron: think I miss some stuff for sure. I know I've missed some stuff. It's been so funny doing the intros for people and just kind of like 'cause I've you know have personal relationships with with pretty much all the Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: guests that we get on, and just going through their their their resume. It's really cool just to see, man, there's so many experiences people go through So many different backgrounds and it's it's it's awesome, man. So bro, appreciate you being on the pod, man. Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: I know it's where we at right now, six o'clock. What tell people where you're at? You're in Denver right now and what it's six is it six? Six AM, yeah. The time that we did. Yeah. Noah Mata: and I'm like wait a minute I'm not that's the wrong coast yeah so we we figure Aaron: No, I didn't. Noah Mata: I got a lot of people I get up at 430 a.m. get pretty for a podcast or but Aaron but man Aaron: My guy. Bro, I I love you, bro. You are dude, so s nah man. Thank you so much, man. I'm seriously looking forward to this one. I yeah, it's been a long time coming. We just it's been a while, it's been a while that we've since we've we've since we caught up and we caught up last week on the phone and we talked, I think it was like two hours again, just catching up and catching up on life because it life's been lifing. and so that was really fun. And so I I was really excited this whole week just to to be able to sit down and chat with you, man. But let's let's go back. I always reminisce a little bit. So was it twenty fifteen? That volunteer call, that yeah, Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, it's 2015. You got it right. Aaron: volunteer call, that's it, man. So yeah, so our church our family of churches has so go ahead. Noah Mata: the the Aaron: Yeah, dude, it was insane. D December twenty fifteen. We were in the Philippines. Philippines for a volunteering trip. And Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: yeah, bro, it was a it was a crazy it was a cra that was a lot of fun. You know what, bro? I don't know if I ever told you this, but like I had heard about you. Like I'd heard about you prior to the trip from the one of the person that was leading the trip. and and she was mentioning to me, there's this great guy named Noah, no Noah Mada. Like, you know, I think you get along with him really well. he's Filipino. I'm like, okay, well t just what? Cosmo Filipino? Is that just how that goes? Like, okay. And you know when sometimes Noah Mata: All right. Aaron: someone hyped and it wasn't just her, there was a couple other people that had mentioned you, 'cause you were quite, you know, quite prominent in our family of churches and you know, you're well connected, which is a great thing, and I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit. And you know when you hear about someone a lot and you're like, Okay, okay, okay and it almost gets to a point where you think, All right, like it it we better get along because if it if we don't, it's gonna be really weird. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, Same thing. It was like, I think somebody told me something along the lines of like, yo, Aaron's like the Australian version of you. And I'm like... Aaron: Dude, that's exactly what people were saying about you. The Filipino ver the yeah, the American version of you. I was like, Okay, this is this is just weird comparisons, bro. I know. Noah Mata: Yeah, I was like, yeah, bunch of rain. But no, but yeah, it was immediate kind of like quick, quick chemistry, vibe Aaron: That's that's what I was that's what I'm saying. Noah Mata: check. It's insane. This picture, you've seen it, but it's like I'm in this like long sleeve shirt that says, and you're in this like you're in the step jersey, think the Golden State and we're like this like singing something in front of everybody I felt like that sure emulated Aaron: Right. okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I remember that photo. Dude. Noah Mata: our time together but yeah maybe Aaron: Absolutely. Noah Mata: I'll send it to you and I'm like yeah bro Aaron: Yeah, bro, send that to me. Yeah, I I remember that for sure. I mean, I think I do. Yeah, I mean I same bro, I felt like we just connected straight away and I was I was so happy because I was like, Yes, yes, yes. We connected. Like everything that I Noah Mata: Thank God. Aaron: like bro, a gener genuinely everything that I liked and I was into, you were into that. Like so people weren't wrong in that sense. It was like music, Noah Mata: You Aaron: yeah, guitar, yeah. Yeah, singing, yeah. basketball, absolutely. Filipino, yeah. C Sig, yeah. Jolly Beat, yeah. Like we were just everything was connected, bro. So it was it was so good, man. It was so good. but dude, Noah Mata: Yeah, man. Aaron: yeah, very, very grateful, man, that we've we're able to spark up a friendship and yeah, be able to after all these years, be able to reconnect and and chat. I know we met we we we saw each other again in twenty twenty two, at a conference we hung out there too. but that had kinda been the last time, I think, since we really chatted chatted since last up till last week. So It's all kind of come around. Yeah, you go ahead. Noah Mata: Yeah, now it's just saying insane. Yeah. Aaron: Yeah, dude, crazy. He how's your internet by the way? Is it it's like it's like lagging a bit for me for you? Noah Mata: yeah it is lagging a little bit for me I don't know what if that's me Aaron: Are you good? Noah Mata: or if that's yeah I can see you yeah yeah yeah but yeah no lagging in the audio Aaron: Can you see me alright and hear me alright? We'll cuddle this part out. It's fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can. Okay, okay. Yeah, yours is just frozen, so I can't really I can hear you, but. The audio the o the audio is a bit. Noah Mata: No, I'm saying there's no laps in the audio, so I'm good on my own. OK. It's still frozen. OK. Let me try to a. Aaron: Okay, cool. Yeah, I just yeah, your f your face is frozen, so hopefully it'll just it'll just come back at some point. But it might be Yeah, it's still frozen on your end. But maybe try, Yeah. Noah Mata: I turned it off and on. Aaron: is it it's still off for me. Noah Mata: Am I still struggling? Aaron: Yeah, he's still off there. Maybe you can like you can leave the studio and then come back. So it's I've done that with I think someone had similar thing where the audio went out. So if you try and leave the studio and then didn't Noah Mata: Yeah, let me try it. I'll be right back. Aaron: and then just come back on the link, yeah. technology man. It just it's a good thing and then sometimes it just completely sells. So you just gotta be you gotta be ready for See if he comes back with a vengeance. There you go. Alright. Noah Mata: We good? Aaron: Yeah, video all right, video's back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Video audio back. Alright, we're good. We good, we're good, we good. all sorted? Noah Mata: Yeah, I think we're good. Aaron: Yeah. yeah, perfect, perfect, cool. I don't know where we got up to, but we yeah, we're just we're just talking about yeah, just the that we did finally that we connected and that it was all yes, that it was all we're glad. We're glad that it was it was the connection that people were hoping for. Dude, so there it is, bro. Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah imagine imagine if it just stunk Yeah Yeah, yeah Aaron: That's what I was nervous about. I was so nervous about that. I was like, dude, what if we didn't even like each other? You know, sometimes when you're too similar and then it's like you don't like it, you're just like, Okay, this guy. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, that was the other thing too is like, cause I don't know if you felt that, especially at the time, like there's the potential of like competition of like, Aaron: Yes. Noah Mata: bro, like I, know, this guy, but there was never any of that. It was almost like a, yeah, I don't think we've ever talked about Aaron: Dude, I yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. Noah Mata: that, but I'm just like, yeah, bro. This is my brother. Yeah. Aaron: No, for sure. And I think 'cause like I think I felt that I had that anticipation too, 'cause I was I was, you know, I was technically like leading the trip, whatever you want to call it. You know, Esther and I were leading the trip. and Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah Aaron: and then I know you are like, you know, you've you've been the ministry, you've been preaching, you've been team like, man. But I I I kind of felt I know this guy will be a great asset no matter what. So, yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: And I'm glad I did I never felt that with you at all. I just felt, man, I just wanna learn from this guy and and, you know. It was it was cool, man. So really and you were so humble, bro. I remember you asking me advice about stuff and I was like, Man, this guy's asking me, man, this is crazy. Like he's really wanted just to just to talk. And so I really appreciated it. It was it was cool, man. One day. One day maybe we'll run it back at some point. But But bro, look, we'll we'll let's get into it, man. I know there's a lot to talk about. This one could be we could be here for a little bit 'cause there's so many things I need to get your thoughts on and and you got so much wisdom and you've seen a lot and I think Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: yeah You've seen a lot, you've experienced a lot, good and bad. and I think that that's part of this is that our exper people's experiences, you know, determine how they view the world and how they view God and and all those kinds of things and that can definitely help people who've never experienced that or never seen those things. and so I really appreciate I'm gonna appreciate your thoughts a lot here on as we talk. But bro, let's go back as I like to do with all my guests and just tell us about a bit about yourself, your journey, your upbringing, and your journey to Jesus and becoming a Christian. And then we'll we'll probably ask some questions along the way and then we'll move into some other areas of discussion as well afterwards. So feel free to go ahead. Noah Mata: Yeah man, yeah, Philippines in so many ways. Lots of our people come from a culturally Catholic background, you know. God has been in our atmosphere for sure, at least in name. but yeah, my parents moved here in 91 and then literally a couple months after they arrived in America, I was born. So my mom always says like, made it at the buzzer. Aaron: That's it, bro. The clutches. Yes, clutch, baby. Wait, I didn't ask you, bro. Are you because who do you go for? Noah Mata: So I feel like that's why I like basketball. Yeah, I was like, alright like cool. mean even though nowadays I'm like Like who's my basketball team So Aaron: In Yeah in NBA. In NBA. Noah Mata: I what I was a Knicks fan for the longest time Became a Sixers Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: fan because I lived in Philly and then the Knicks were just depressing me and then I became a Knicks fan again this year Aaron: And you regret that. Noah Mata: Yeah I became a Knicks fan again and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm like guys. Yeah. Yeah, it really stunk being a Knicks fan for a long time So mom Donnie won the mayoral race Aaron: No, but were there from the good old day, like the yeah. But that was only just a short stint for going for the sixes. Noah Mata: and I was like once mom Donnie came I was like, the Knicks Knicks in five even though it was six So Or was it five it was Nixon five. Yeah, but anyways, yeah, so that's Aaron: That's crazy. But you Denver still s yeah yeah yeah. They qu like they killed, they killed. So you never thought about yeah, okay. So you're not going for Denver, you even though you're in Colorado, you're still you're still Nick's. Noah Mata: No, my goodness never but then again asked me asked me in a couple years, but Yeah Think about the NBA that is it you know, this is Aaron: Good. Okay, good. 'Cause I just yeah, don't don't change 'cause you live in different That's true. So Noah Mata: like it's a play. It's a player empowerment time So I'm like I kind of follow the Aaron: A hundred per yeah. Noah Mata: player now So which as a Bron fan, it's really challenging not to root for the Sixers. I Just look yeah, I love Aaron: Who y who are you mainly following? and go back to the Sixers. So you're just bouncing between the the Sixers and the Knicks. Noah Mata: I'm just like yeah, yeah, and I feel like I feel like the spirit is like you better choose a side because like the Sixers and the Knicks are playing the first game of the NBA season and so yeah, it's a yeah, but I just I Yeah, yeah, so but you know Aaron: That's true. That's true. So who you who yeah, but you you're Nick, you've you gotta be Nick's cause they just won a championship, right? So that's right now that's w they've gotta be where you're at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's see, let's see. That's so right. Noah Mata: But LeBron, if you're listening to this, you're not, LeBron, if you do Aaron: Yeah, we'll get it to Noah Mata: win the championship with the Sixers, it's very likely I will become a Sixers fan again. No, but. Aaron: So do it for Noah. Do it for Noah Bron. my gosh. Okay, so go back. So yeah, you get to you're born here in America. So you're Filipino born in America. Noah Mata: Yeah, so when my parents moved here, yeah, I feel like a lot of families that move to America from the Philippines. Faith is kind of like a blank slate when you come to America. So my parents, yeah, didn't really, again, to my knowledge, again, was between the ages of zero and five when they weren't necessarily going to mass or anything like that. But when I was five, there was a woman who stopped both my parents. Her name was Marie Wood. and it was in the middle of this supermarket and she shared her faith with her with with my parents and basically was just like hey have you guys ever actually studied out the Bible and figured out what it meant for your lives and any other day they'd probably you know move on but I think my parents both as they talk about that story yeah we're kind of desperate for faith community in a way that they'd never been a like that before you know so Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and yeah that woman was part of what Erin and I's tradition of churches has been and so my my my knowledge or exposure to our family churches starts from a very young age at five Aaron: Yeah, right. Noah Mata: and yeah so for me in my especially in my early years so like elementary school middle school My experience with church was very much like family. felt like, Aaron: No. Noah Mata: all right, these are really safe people. I think it was my first operating definition of goodness, just like people Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: who cared, people who... made my parents happy. You know, they'd serve in children's ministry just as volunteers. And it was the reason why we'd come to church early and things like that. So I think for me, was really special, you know, early on to experience church that way. Yeah. Yeah. And especially simultaneously. Aaron: Quite positive, right? Like quite positive overall. Sorry, but what state were you in or what city? Noah Mata: So I was in New York, so this yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like yeah, I grew up in Topeka, Kansas. So I'm a Knicks fan Aaron: New York, okay. Yeah, sorry, I don't know if you mentioned that at the start. That makes sense why you're going for the Knicks. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. New York. Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah Yeah, so Aaron: What what like what area of New York for all the Aussies that are like yeah. Noah Mata: so my dad worked in New York City but Aaron: Yep, like Manhattan. Noah Mata: Yeah, and then we lived in the city for a little bit, then eventually moved to NIAAC, which is right outside the city, Rockland County. So yeah, Aaron: Okay. Noah Mata: in the suburbs outside of the city. And that's, you Aaron: Okay. Noah Mata: know, kind of the early stages. And then we moved up to Connecticut. So the Hartford Church. So we were there. But yeah, so it was interesting because there was a In 2003 there was a bit of a rift in our tradition of churches and family of churches. So my parents actually left. But I didn't really understand it at the time because I was, you know, I was 12. And to me it just represented, us leaving represented me leaving my friends. So I... really was frustrated with that. It created a bit of a rift between my parents and I, because I just didn't really understand. But it was interesting because for me, think probably the shadow side of growing up with being in a church of people that I loved and respected was that in a lot of ways their opinions were way too prevalent for me where I cared so much about how they thought about me, how they thought about my family. Aaron: Mm. Yeah. Noah Mata: So when I was a freshman in high school, my grade nine, I... One of the youth leaders reached out to me and said hey we have some you know open spots at teen camp our youth camp and We'd love for you to come if you wanted to and I loved man camp was everything to me if Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: anything yeah camp was Camp was the place that I felt like I could be free. I could be vulnerable. I could be open I can be Goofy I could be loud I could be dumb and Aaron: Hm. Yeah. Noah Mata: but also explore like explore and be creative and Yeah, so I yeah, I took that in a heartbeat both my parents felt a Little divided about it, but then they were just like look hey, you know We know you love camp we know you love these people so you know we just support whatever you'd like to do there so But it was interesting and hi Aaron: Hm. And your parents are not regularly going to Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: the Yeah, okay. So they've kind of moved on to a different church or they're not coming to church at that time. Yeah. Okay. But happy for you to go and be connected in some way. Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah, so at that time they had kind of... yeah, yeah, so yeah, at that time they had decided they didn't want to be part of... this church, they also were navigating their own kind of journey and their relationships as well. but yeah, so that was high school. But then when high school began, it kind of began this journey for me of, I felt like I was a bit of a chameleon everywhere I was. So back Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: to the whole idea that, you know, I had such a high view of the church and specifically like the people in the church. And then I developed a similar high view of my friends in high school. So I just felt this kind of tug and pull of having to kind of be what everybody wanted me to be. Which isn't, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you know, necessarily unique experience to me. I know that's just, that's across the board for somebody. many of us but yeah yeah Aaron: Yeah, trying to fit in and be accepted, yeah. Noah Mata: yeah a sense of belonging and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: when when I felt that both in the church and at camp I started to feel that at school I'd tell people like my Friday nights would look really confusing on the outside looking in where it was like Fridays I Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: could go to youth group and then I get picked up from a friend of mine and go to a party and Get drunk and like, Aaron: Right, okay, yeah. Noah Mata: you know play pong and you know, whatever we were doing back in the day Chasing, know attention from girls So like that's really Aaron: yeah. Come on. Noah Mata: what it was. It was just kind of like rinse repeat for me for a couple years Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: and But I'll never forget my my junior year of high school There's a couple by the name of Julius and Heather for rare Julius Filipino guy you'd probably love I don't know if you ever met Julius, but Aaron: No, no, I haven't. Noah Mata: Yeah, but he would yeah, he would fit right into this conversation But yeah, he Aaron: for sure. Noah Mata: he was just he was a guy that I felt incredibly safe around but then to he was very not judgmental but he he brought the scriptures to life for me in a way that I never I never saw or never actually allowed myself Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: to see. And he really helped contextualize grace for me because for me I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: had never told really anybody about the stuff I was doing. and For him it was around the same time Facebook came out so all Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: these pictures that I was tagged in it's like alright cool like I can't hide I can't hide the life that I'm like living now For sure man absolutely I was just like yeah like here's a bong in my mouth Aaron: dude. Bro, Facebook Facebook be the bro Facebook be the best disciple of sometimes, man, exposing us seriously. Yeah. Exposed me a couple of times. Noah Mata: So yeah, remember Julius was just like sent me a picture and was like, hey man Aaron: That's so good. Noah Mata: Looks like you're having a lot of fun and I'm like, no, not my youth leader seeing me like out here partying and But it was Aaron: Dude so Bro, dude it's so funny. Noah Mata: it was Yeah, go for it Yeah Aaron: No, I was gonna say I I was talking to another a a brother, Tim, I did a podcast with and he actually we were talking about this. I liked something on Facebook. And you know remember when Facebook used to show like so and so liked this, so and so Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: liked this. I liked this this thing. I had like a bunch of swear words in it. I was feeling something at the time, I'm sure. And then he messaged me w with a screen like with a photo and be like, Hey bro, I saw you like this, you you feeling alright, everything good? And I was like, man I was like, Okay. So Facebook man, Facebook be getting us, man. Noah Mata: That's hilarious, Aaron: Yeah, I know. dude. But keep going, keep going. Noah Mata: Yeah. Also, I feel like I'm going real long and giving my life story, but if you, if there's any of this, you need to cut. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: No no, just go bro, after you man. This is this is great. This is good. This is good stuff. It's context. It's all context. Noah Mata: yeah. But anyways, yeah. So, but it was the first time that somebody addressed the elephant in the room. And for him he was just like, hey my door is open. there's no, you know, if you want to study the scriptures and figure out how it applies to your life for real, I'm here. And... I think his demeanor, his approach to me, I didn't even realize how much I needed that because I felt like I was on this journey of just continuing to live a duplicitous, deceitful kind of life. And so yeah, we sat down, started studying the scriptures for real. And I'll never forget it, like even to this day, it, one of the things that I felt was like, I felt like I had to be perfect in order to, or have like a streak of not sinning in a certain type of way. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: in order to earn my salvation and again not a unique experience to me but I think for him you know for him to be able to quote scripture show me scripture contextualize it and say hey his power was made perfect for you in weakness Yeah, his grace is sufficient for you. And I really, again, I felt like that wasn't cheap at all. Oftentimes we talk about cheap grace as something that we just take advantage of. But in a lot of ways, for me, was just like, yeah, no, no, I think I'm starting to get it. It almost Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: doesn't matter what I did and doesn't matter what I'm going to do. But if I allow the grace Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: of Jesus, the grace of God to define my life, then my goodness, know, only. Only encouragement and growth can happen from here even in the midst of my sin. So yeah. Aaron: Yeah. That's good. That's good. Bro, if I ask you, sorry, sorry to stop you, but so when you say he contextualized grace for you, was it the co combination of him being able to explain it from the scriptures, but then also his actual 'cause it sounds like yeah, he's y you said he was non judgmental, he you felt really safe with him. Do you think it was both those things and you seeing it kind of come to life in Julius? Julius was it sorry, Juli Julian? Julius, yeah, d it was it yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, Julius. Yeah, know, truthfully. Yeah, for sure. I think both and I mean, he was the first person actually really disciple me, if you will. Like, and he had been he was doing that a year before I decided to make Jesus Lord of my life, you know, and I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: think that was the. That was a, even now when I look back, was the, that's the largest takeaway for me is that, my goodness, you know, he, he said walk with me without saying walk with me. He, know, drove to me. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the little things too, you know, Aaron: Mm. Didn't feel like transactional or any kind of like I have to do this. This genuine rel relationship, yeah. Noah Mata: drove 45 minutes out of the way just to come to my house and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: be with me. He was curious about my life. And then he also shared his. I think it's the both Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: end. think he also modeled vulnerability to me. And he'd been sharing about his experience in high school and the losses and the mistakes that he made and the triumphs that he had too. So yeah, for me, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: think as someone I really attribute to being the first person model and disciple me in the way that I felt like I really needed. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, I owe it to Julius Aaron: Amen. Noah Mata: and his wife Heather Heather was a little bit more of like the fire and brimstone and she hates that I mentioned that every time but she really was Like anytime Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: she'd see me doing doing something stupid. She'd be like Dairy Queen now Like Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: she'd take me to Dairy Queen Probably just to like sweeten the blow of whatever like, you know correction she had Yeah for sure Aaron: Yeah, that's right. It's like it's time for D it's it's time for D time. Not not the Dairy Queen time. Like Dairy Queen discipline time. Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah 100 % Yeah, yeah, Julius was the hug and Heather was the hammer So yeah, that was that was really it so and I talk Aaron: Hey, it's a good partnership. Noah Mata: about them a lot because I do think like as a As a guy like I need a big sister. I need a big brother Like I Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: need to be mothered. I need to be fathered spiritually. Like that's just like That's just a name, you know that Aaron: Mm. Mm. Noah Mata: that was crucial for my development and I felt like Yeah, the two of them really Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: helped me even develop like safe relationships Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: across the board. Because I really valued that. Like, just loved, I loved being able to have great platonic relationships with the opposite sex. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, in a world that was like so weird about it. They're like, yeah, you like, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you guys hang out all the time. Like, you guys trying to... Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: Try to make something happen here. I'm like no, that's my sis dude like weirdo Aaron: That's right. Yeah. Man, dude, that's so that's stuff's so important, bro, I think. Like the and it's such a I think sometimes we just let it go idly by in the church that we ha I was talking to someone about this Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: the other day. Just one of the biggest benefits of being a part of a church community well, any community, but I think I would say definitely in the Christian community, what I've experienced is just the different levels of relationships that you can have with People from different generations, people from different you know, backgrounds, yeah, opposite sex, and you can have good, deep spiritual relationships with that and that like mentorship and just the the community element, it's so important to a developing yeah, to developing spiritually, especially young people. I guess I and and I guess you had your mum and dad around, I guess, in this time, but it maybe not as I don't know, that are they are they just like helping you spiritually in in some senses as well? Noah Mata: Yeah, you know, I think, and to give my parents credit, I think what I appreciate about them is that... They never stood in the way of me discovering both Aaron: Mm. Yeah, it's great. Noah Mata: my faith, then also, yeah, kind of falling on my face a bit in my relationships Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: in high school. You know, I think some people would look at, you know, that as neglect. But to me, for me, I think they, and they may have consciously or subconsciously done this, but they allowed me to have my freedom. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: And I think, you know, the two of them, you know, obviously have gone through their own journeys and, and, know, we went through some challenging things. actually after I became a Christian and I got baptized, in 2007, aging myself here, aging myself, whatever. they, they actually, Aaron: How how but how old are you how old are you? How old are you? Noah Mata: I'm 35. Yeah. Aaron: So so how old you were then what, two thousand did math for me. Sixteen, okay, yeah, yeah. I was bad for two thousand eight. I was I fourteen, so we we're good. We're we're unks now, but we're good. Titos, titos, man. Noah Mata: I was 16. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, there you go, bro. You know what it is. But but anyways, so they yeah, so they came back. They you know, they actually came back to the church family we were part of. But through Aaron: Mm, awesome. Noah Mata: that time, there was some stuff that came out. with my father which I'm only sharing this because it's crucial my journey and my dad has definitely like Yeah, a lot of things have happened in his life since but he was arrested that year and Just for kind of different things that happened professionally and then But that was such a Insane kind of like landmark bookmark Aaron: Yeah, but Noah Mata: moment for us So for him and his faith journey and then my mom and you know our whole family I have an older brother as well who Yeah now lives in LA him and his wife, but anyways all that to say Yeah during that time I think in many ways, like life just forced all of our hands to address all the elephants in the room. So, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that's how I ended up going to Philadelphia for college. I had some good friends that were in the Philadelphia College Ministry. And, Yeah, there was just like, man, you should come through. And at that time, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you know, I thought I was going to go to school in Boston, but. financially it didn't make any sense so I got involved with Hope Worldwide and it was a program called AmeriCorps that funded Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: some of the programs that we had so I did an internship with them at Camp Hope for Kids in Philadelphia right outside of Philadelphia. That's what brought me to Philly. Aaron: Yes, that's right. That's right, yeah. Noah Mata: So that illuminated a different part of my journey where I felt like, so much of my faith journey was about identity and not feeling like I needed to be a chameleon. Whereas this part of the journey gave me a picture of what actually like my faith and practice could be. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: And through the lens of both justice and also, yeah, I think being around You know, I talk about my time in Philadelphia a lot as far as like my college ministry was consisted of really cool people Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and like some of the most artistic, creative. I think some of the guys and I they would attest to this we were probably a little too vain You know, we loved our fits we went thrifting Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: together like the guys probably went thrifting more together than the girls You know like all the gender norms at the time back in the early 2010s. We were Aaron: Hey Noah Mata: like, yeah We'd have like yeah, we'd be corrected for how high our shorts were Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: like, you know, like our thunder thighs all out but But Aaron: That's crazy. Noah Mata: there was something about that being out of B there and like man like Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you know you get it like sometimes like people looked at the Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: church like a bunch of corny corny people but Aaron: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Noah Mata: for us it was like nah dude like you come to church we're pretty cool Aaron: Place to be. Yeah, man. Have fun. Yeah. Noah Mata: so but my time in Philly I think is where I really saw yeah I think So many of my worlds collide and some of the challenges Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: in Philadelphia of, both just what naturally can occur in an urban environment and... Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: you know, both between like kids that we were able to both mentor, but then see them mentor their peers. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and then, yeah, being fully entrenched in the city. yeah, both the greatest triumphs and some of the deepest heartaches. So, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: but yeah, that was such a huge part of my journey. was being in Philadelphia. So. Aaron: Yeah. And what you was that for just for context? Noah Mata: Yeah, so I Aaron: What you was that? Noah Mata: was there between 2009 and 2018 so So yeah Aaron: wow. Yeah, it's a long time. Noah Mata: so it was there for college and then yeah, I Being part of that college ministry. I never really envisioned being a minister and up until yeah my time being there but then being there helped me realize because I wanted to you know get into politics so I studied political science for my undergrad Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: and I thought I wanted to be a lawyer or a writer or something like that. I did debate in high school. for me, was one of the areas in which I was inspired. then being in Philadelphia, I was like, wow, justice can be highly valued and accomplished within the confines of the church. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: Yeah, so for me it was the first time that I saw man I could I could be a minister I could be a pastor that is focused on you know really solving some of the inequities and the Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: the challenges within urban environments and contexts. So that's when I became a director for Hope for Kids, for the camps throughout the summers. And that role really inspired me to do that full time. I, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: yeah, to have all my passions kind of melded into one. And I feel like all the things that Aaron: Yeah. That'd have been great. Noah Mata: of the Lord illuminated in my heart was there Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: so yeah that was that that my Aaron: That's awesome. Noah Mata: Philly kind of portion my Philly journey Aaron: Okay. So you finished so you're there twenty eighty so you go on staff working for the church in Philly as well, is that right? So you got Campbell for Kit and then also Yeah, so when when do you go on staff? Are you Noah Mata: Yeah Aaron: full time? Or is it like full time on staff? Noah Mata: Yeah, so I went full-time on staff, was it 2015? Yeah, so before that it was just kind of like part-time. Yeah, Aaron: Twenty fifteen, yeah. Doing campus ministry. Noah Mata: so I was doing a combination. So did college ministry, I did youth as well. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: And so, yeah, doing both, was cool because it was one, being able to invest in the youth and the families of the church. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: And then also, not just, again, it was really unique too, being able to be in suburban youth ministry, but then urban youth ministry and seeing the differences between the two, but then also seeing all of them. Aaron: If we can't, perfect is yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, kind of combined in the same Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: place. So I did that up until 2018. And Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: then in 2018, the late, great Phil Booker, who Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: was a minister in Maryland, gave me a call and basically was like, look, you know, we were looking to plant a church in DC and Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: would love to come have you work with me for a number of years and have me just walk with you and train you. And so for me, it was interesting because I had some good buddies that were in the DC area and had our like always had this it's kind of like a tug in my heart for being part of not necessarily being the framer of a church community within an urban context. But for me, Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: the city always represented like the best place or the ecosystem for creatives, for artists, for justice warriors, for like so many different socioeconomic situations and contexts all in one. So I was just like, man, Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: like what a, what a gift it would be to be part of something like that. So, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: so Moo there, at the time was, was married. And, you know, so we decided to go and be part of that community and to plant that church. So it was really, Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: really beautiful. And Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: yeah, I guess I can talk about that part now. Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll get into that for sure. I I I think I I wanna we'll get there. I wanna talk about because we obviously we can really tell and I already know, you know, you very well, but you have a real heart for justice, community, and you know, helping people that are in need. Where do you think that that that fire, that passion came from for you? Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah, I didn't even mention this, but yeah, so in 2002, it was my first time going back to the Philippines Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that I remembered that I was a cognizant. So I went back and. You know, my memory of the Philippines at that time was that, like, okay, this is a developing nation, but my family always lived in environments that were better off. You know, we were not, you know, living in the slums. in the Philippines Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: and my family on both sides were pretty well off or at least that was my perspective. So when I went back Aaron: Mm mm. Noah Mata: in 2002, a few family members decided, hey, let's go to this place called Smokey Mountain. And Smokey Mountain at the time, Aaron: yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah, it's a whole community built on landfill. I had never Aaron: Literally, literally landfill. Noah Mata: seen anything like that. Yeah, literal landfill. And I had never seen anything like that in my life. And, you know, it's interesting because, like, obviously, like in the age of voluntourism, it's one of those like... I immediately felt uncomfortable because I was just like, it smells. You know, I'm seeing kids walking around malnourished. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: I'm seeing kids walking around barefoot, kids who look like me too, which was also insane to think about. I'm like, why do we look like each other, but I don't feel like I'm one of you. So Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: I felt like for me, it was a bit of an identity crisis there too, because I had felt like I feel more American than I do Filipino. So I remember walking around and meeting this woman who made handbags out of landfill and they were sick. They were so cool. She was all tatted up too. She was so cool. And it was really interesting Aaron: that's dope. Yeah. Noah Mata: because like, again, before I met her, my whole outlook on the whole situation was this is as bad as it gets. This is grim. This is grave. This is... You know, this is what I was taken out of and thank God I'm not here. And, Aaron: Mm. Mm. Noah Mata: but then meeting this woman who made these handbags, she was the happiest, most jovial, most grateful. And she was just like, Hey, like you don't have to pay for these. We, we, just want you to ask us to have it. thank you for coming to our home. And, Aaron: Well mm. Noah Mata: and it clicked for me that I was like, I, and again, I wasn't that, you know, I think, what, I was 11 at the time? But I just, Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty teen, yeah. Noah Mata: the way her demeanor was, her outlook on life was such a, I think such an important moment for me because I Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: realized that, I think part of the perspective that I need to retain is that it's actually not, the joy in life isn't found in the resources, you know, it's like that passage Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: in James. Chapter one, verse two, it's consider it pure joy to face trials of many kinds or the testing your faith develops perseverance. but what's really interesting, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: right, is like I found joy almost exclusively in resources. And my happiness Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: was so attached to what I do have and what I don't have versus acknowledging, yeah, like. Actually, there's always a reason be joyful. that was Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: such a moment for me. And I think really, really paved the course for me to even why I ended up studying things that I studied. And Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: yeah, and seeing almost like the yeah, that the the irony of living in the states and then seeing some environments like that in the states in a country that always proud itself, at least at the time, know, especially Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: kind of like the American dream was, yeah, like success and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: owning the home and, you know, having the six figure job and all of that. So I think for me, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that helped me understand like as much as I also need, as much as I need to look out for those who are vulnerable in the communities that are marginalized, Even within the rich, quote unquote, Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: that there is some poverty emotionally and spiritually there too. yeah. Aaron: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's that's a good I mean that's and that's prop that's why you went in twenty fifteen, I I y I assume to the Philippines where we met. That Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: that's 'cause I I was there for a for a trip as well where we're helping yeah communities in in need and yeah those trips are amazing. But I think yeah man, I think I I've been Smokey Mountain too and I remember sim I I didn't meet the the woman selling the handbags. but I remember going into a home. and yeah, just being like these they were just so hospitable in in this home and and it was it was just yeah, and I remember feeling the same exact thing that you were feeling, just a bit shocked, like a little bit perplexed of man, I don't these guys are so joyful and h hospitable and they're literally like they they had I think the dad was out like picking rubbish, like they're just trying to get rubbish, like the good rubbish to sell or you know, and And I just thought, man, this is yeah, it gives a perspective, you know, just really gives perspective. And that's why I always love going back. And I think one of my I don't know if it's it's like sinful nature or just something that I I can just always forget, you know. Like I go there, have these experiences and I come back and I'm impacted and then I just I think I can just lose sight like so quick when I'm back in Australia, when I'm back in back home, back comfortable and I do feel I guess I do feel a little bit of guilt at times of man, I should I should really, you know, do stuff, you know, and I and I go to I go to work in the city, downtown in w in Melbourne here and and I walk past people and it does tuck on my heart and and I'll yeah, to to my shame, I think I more often than not I walk by, right? I gotta get to work, I gotta get to the train, I gotta do this and but I think it's a really good reminder that yeah, that that it's y yes, it's good to go to these countries and do that in And help out in those in those ways, which is great. But I think like what you're talking about, it's also what are you doing in your own community? You know, what are you doing back at home? You know, and that's the point of those trips that we would go on, was it wasn't just about being here for two weeks and serving and then going home and like, great, I did a great job but it's about no, no, what's a the shift in the perspective, being more Christ like in the in the perspective of of people everywhere and then going back home and then doing what you're doing here, doing it back home. You know, having that heart for people back at home. What what's w could you speak to that maybe? Like w how do you kind of go through that ch like work through those challenges at times where you might feel like you forget, but trying to keep your mindset that even when I'm in a whatever you want to call it, a first world country or a you know, w whatever, how do you keep that heart of man? No, look for the look for where I can serve, look or for those that are in need. Noah Mata: Yeah, I think part of it is proximity. And I oftentimes we, it's kind of like the malady or the challenge of growing up in our certain environments and communities. Some people have just been sheltered from other communities and I feel for them. think that's why it's always, to your point, it's always good to just kind of see a world outside of your own. And when you live in a bubble, Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: sometimes all you know is that bubble. So I think part of it is, first is how do you get yourself around? And not even just, again, impoverished communities, but... just people who aren't like you. I think it starts there Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: because I think the more comfortable we get with people who are not like us and when I say not like us, not just from a personality standpoint, but yeah, from a context standpoint, if you're Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: like, I feel this about, know, my Filipino American brothers and sisters in California, you know, they've had the Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: gift of growing up in communities and a lot of ways of just Filipino Americans. whereas for me I Aaron: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Noah Mata: you know I grew up in New York and Connecticut and especially in Connecticut there were barely any Filipino Americans so Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: You know, I think that context forced my hand to just, all right, how am I going to be around somebody who's Nigerian-American? How am going to be around this Puerto Rican? How am Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: going to be around this Italian person? So I think there's that from a cultural standpoint, which I think is a great precursor Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: for being around more vulnerable environments and obviously in safety. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: I think there's like great volunteer opportunities. Whatever the context you're and that's not even saying that suburbs don't have their fair share of marginalized communities, but I think that's part of it is just, know, am I putting myself within proximity of people who I need to learn more about? I don't understand. Yeah, because I do think the research is great, you know, there are plenty of resources, you can go to school to study these things out. I think those are crucial but at the end of the day Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: if you're not getting yourself around the actual heartbeats of the individuals you're reading about then there's gonna Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: be a lapse there Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and you know I think if anything 2020 yeah the coronavirus really helps It's a weird way to put it, but like it putting us Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: all in lockdown and then a lot of the social justice issues that arose during that time. Yeah, it held people accountable. And I think that's a positive angle of that. Like, wow, we, yeah, I think there were a lot of. even different microaggressions that people weren't aware of that were illuminated during that time. So Aaron: Yeah, it came out, right. Hmm. Mm. Noah Mata: yeah, I think my biggest thing is proximity. And it starts from a small scale, can expand to a larger scale. So just get yourself around people who aren't like you. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's good advice. Yeah. I think that's something that I definitely gotta gotta work on and and think about and do more for sure. I think that's really helpful just for people to understand even what you're doing today, right? With the organization that you're working with. it's just really cool to go. That that's where it started for Noah. Like that that's that's really, really cool. So we get to go into bat getting asked to go and basically lead plant slash lead a church in D C. so yeah, maybe if yeah, again, as much as you'd like to talk about with that, what was that experience like for you building and shaping a new church community, and then some of the struggles there with that too. Noah Mata: yeah, moved to to the DC area in twenty eighteen. did some college ministry to also just help at the Capitol Rivers Church. and it was yeah, great time just kind of be here, learn the city, learn DC. It was really cool, especially studying political science and then, you know, ending up being so close to the Capitol. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you know, a lot of people that move to the DC area move for whether it's to be a staffer on the hill, what we call kind of the Capitol Hill environment or, you know, any kind of government job. So you feel that when you're here. It's kind of like that that's the the the or when you're here, when you're in D C Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still used to say in here. Noah Mata: that's kind of the I know. that's the the kind of the the aura, if you will. It's like similar to what Hollywood or LA would be with people with with actors, were you know, performers. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: So yeah, so being there I I r so Phil Booker, he he passed in two thousand and twenty four. But I I I mention him because in so many ways I owe so much of my opportunity to explore, to discover, to try new things, to really lean into my pastoral calling to him. you know, in a lot of ways he he really created the environment and both of belief and accessibility. So twenty twenty why I mentioned that is so I you know, a lot of resources started to come out around that time. in twenty nineteen I was part of something that we called Capital Collective. It was like a worship collective that a few other pastors around the area and I started. And it was born out of just wanting to create a space f both for artists but then also just people who wanted to learn more about worship and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: how to create a space in which you know the worship environment could really illuminate and bring up Aaron: Hmm. Noah Mata: opportunities both for like healing and you know, work work the work of the spirit, but then also Honestly, just evangelistic excitement, you know, for lack of a Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: better term, I think a lot of the environments in which we were inviting people to were just sterile. And Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: you know, the worship space was just inspiring and you know, and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: we had a really unique opportunity because we had so many gifted musicians that love Jesus and it just made sense. So it it became something really beautiful. but during that time too Aaron: That's cool. It was inter de n it was it interdenominational? Sorry, was it Noah Mata: it started within our denomination, but then we started to expand inter interdenominationally Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and part of that was too me and another buddy of mine at the time, who was pastoring at in Virginia at the time, Logan, we had both started to develop great relationships with other pastors in other contexts and other worship leaders in other contexts that were outside of our tradition. And Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: And I s I became involved with a cohort called C Rock, which consisted of pastors for s from so many different denominations and lots of people are familiar Aaron: Awesome. Noah Mata: with John Mark Comer's work. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: and he was one of the one of the leaders and original members of the C Rock collective or cohort. And at the time too, I you know, I I was always I felt like I was a student of so many different so many different pastors and so many different churches and I was always trying to figure out what other people were doing and a lot of the pastors that were involved with Sea Rock were kind of like I admired from far away. So it was really great to be able to have connection with them up close. so for me that the combination of all of those things I felt l felt like was like the the training that I needed in order Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: to be ready to plant the church and even Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: what educated and informed the way in which we planted the church. so Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: even the kinds of individuals that we recruited to be part of the planting and Even the spaces that we chose and the environment that we chose and our vision Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: for the church. and it was really, really special. So, yeah, I mean, the way we started too, we started with a team of it was like seventy people. Aaron: Uh-huh. Noah Mata: which, you know, with our fan our our network of churches, like to have a team that large plant something was yeah, Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: it was a lot of people would ask, like h how, dude. Aaron: Yeah, Noah Mata: And I'm like, I mean Aaron: yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: I don't I mean we we had a pretty cool, you know, marketing campaign I guess, but Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: but at the same time too, I think part of it was yeah, people really were were hungering and thirsting for something afresh and and really felt the spirit's calling to to come Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: to D C and to be part of something really special. And I I really to this day I really believe it was. So yeah. Aaron: Yeah, yeah man. What's what was the biggest maybe biggest victory and then also maybe one of the biggest challenges? like just when you know, for people that never planted a church I've been a part of that. What and I've never been, right? I've never been. So what from your perspective, what was kind of the yeah, maybe a victory and then also a really hard hard part about it that maybe people don't even think about. Noah Mata: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, it's so funny, like, I'm this first victory is just kind of a joke, but not really. Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: but a lot of marriages came out of it. Yeah. So there is something I mean, you know, and our Aaron: Hey man, come on. Now that's great. That's great. There you go. Noah Mata: our our you know, tradition of churches loves that. They're like, yeah, come come here and you'll find the love of your life. Aaron: huh, huh. Noah Mata: Yeah, but you know, jokingly enough, like that that was actually really special is being able to see Aaron: No, that's for sure. Noah Mata: people who, yeah, did not know that when they come you know, when they d made that decision to move, and shift their lives to be part of this church that they were also going to find their life partner, which is really cool. Aaron: What's your hypothesis on that? On the on that high success? Noah Mata: Mm. I think I think part of it I think it's twofold, a combination of seeing it's similar to like when you go on a, you know, volunteer trip or a missions trip. Aaron: Uhhuh. Yeah, I mean that's where that's where Esther and I met. That's exactly right. Noah Mata: Yeah. You get to see someone in a context in which they're serving, they're giving of themselves, Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: but then two, your guard is down in a in a good way. It's like a you're Aaron: Yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: you're available to inspiration. So I think in a Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: lot of ways people are available to that. So there's something about and and it bonds you. I think there's a a a Aaron: Yeah, I think you have the same goal. I think you have the same kind of you're there for the same reason, right? Like you're not just Noah Mata: For sure. Aaron: we're here f to help build this church and then I think that that aligns and all those things come together. I think that's yeah. It's yeah, it's good. Noah Mata: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, perfect world right there. But yeah, I Aaron: Okay. Yeah. Noah Mata: it truthfully though, I think one of the the greatest victories, and the things that I'm I'm proud of is really being able to see people's faith expand in capacity. And what I mean by that is didn't matter what stage of faith you were when you came in. You know, we had a lot of people who came in that had struggled before and and had a lot of church Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: hurt or trauma, if you will, and Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: came in short, like maimed with wounds, but but really came in and saw something else. They were able to see, wow, like the spirit really is at work. And I'm Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: seeing things that I had never seen before in a way that's not deterring me from Jesus, but inviting me to Aaron: Come on. Noah Mata: explore and to embrace him even deeper. So I truly felt that. Aaron: Awesome. Noah Mata: I think that was like the air in the room, if you will. Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and then I think some of the challenges that came out from that was yeah, I do think it's really difficult to build a community from the ground up, cross generationally, by the way. It wasn't just a bunch of young people that came. Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: but cross generationally some people from other traditions as well. it was really challenging to get people to trust the pace of a church that it's not just gonna happen overnight. So I think there there were individuals Aaron: Right. Noah Mata: that were used to certain systems Aaron: Fast right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Noah Mata: that were not in place. And it was the almost like the reliance on those systems as opposed to the reliance on Jesus to ensure that Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: they yeah, they'd be taken care of. And I think sometimes Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: there's this there there is this overemphasis on being taken care of. And what I mean taken care of, like individually discipled, your marriage being shepherded and discipled, your deepest and darkest being shepherded and discipled By the leaders. but the reality Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: is, like, you know, I was thirty at the time that we planted this, Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: and I'm like, I'm there's only so much I can do, but not just because of my age, but also because of my capacity and my role. I'm not Yeah. Yeah. So I think Aaron: C literally, like your time. In your time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Noah Mata: there was a bit of a hero complex, which I think is true across the board. It doesn't matter the tradition that you're in, I think. Pastors can so often Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: and ministers, whatever your tradition calls them, can be elevated to being wearing all of these hats for you. when in reality it's Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: like they only really have capacity for, you know, a certain amount of people. And the hope is that Aaron: Yeah. Noah Mata: there is a a culture of taking care of and training and discipling, but then also get some therapy, So Aaron: Yeah, that's real. That's real. So what was your solution to Noah Mata: Combination of all the things. So yeah. Aaron: that as that kind of arose as a problem? Noah Mata: Yeah, and I'm not even saying I, you know, I did this well or perfectly. but Aaron: Sure, sure. Yeah. Noah Mata: I think part of it was I I felt a deep responsibility both from the sermon space. I Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: really I I had such a deep reverence for the pulpit. because it's it is the environment in which people can be inspired, people can be encor encouraged to to and an implored to to live the lives in which they were called. but then third, it is a teaching opportunity. So I I I really Aaron: Yeah, for sure. Noah Mata: tried to to to frame our sermon series around formational invitations of the church. So that was really the primarily where I spent a lot of my time was that I I wanted people to understand this is the direction w which we're going and this is what we're being invited Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: to from a formational standpoint. And then from a leadership team standpoint, you know, we we did have a unique gift of having just really great seasoned older couples that helped us start this. and, you know Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: Truthfully, I think in some ways I wish we had the resources to hire them, but a lot of them just worked out of volunteering. so really relying on these the both kind of our older couples that have been around a while, to at least identify like areas of need. and then our leaders, we had what we called a steering team and they were leaders that we relied on a group of purely volunteers. that just a ha had a heart for shepherding the church. so Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that was such a great team. that's where I spent a lot of my time kind of investing in. And I really relied on them. They they were the voice of the church to me. and Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: I think across the board it was like one, it was just really helpful to have that team. And we loved each other. I think it was just a lot of fun spending time together. and I think the more unified and the more more together that team felt, that transferred to the vibe and the the morale of the church. Aaron: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. I think that's that that's that sounds like yeah. I think that's the best way to do it. I think I I I mean 'cause I think that like what you talked about, it's so easy to just rely upon the the staff or the the minist like the you know, the top guys in the church, right? And expect everything to happen from from them. and it's almost like we have at least I think like in our tradition at least, it's kinda like we have the staff Like the the the leaders and the staff and they're the guys that, you know, pump and pump and pump and y sh we wanna get everything from them. But it's like what you said, it's just it's the capacity's not there. And so that that I don't know if you want to say the next level down, I don't know if that's the right v verbiage, but you know, that kind of what you said that what you guys call the steer team. That that those people, those people Noah Mata: Mm-hmm. Aaron: that are the they're they're volunteers, but they're in the trenches, they're discipling people, they're getting with people, they're stu studying the Bible with people. feel like we just need so many more of those. And I think if a church has so many more of those people, then I think it takes a burden off the staff so they can focus on what they're gifted in, which is like, you know, whatever that might be, studying the Bible, evangelizing, whatever it might be. And then everyone's getting shepherded and looked after. And then yeah, then we don't feel quote unquote under resourced. Cause I think that's what happens a lot of time. And then what ends up happening, I think, I think you see this I I I've seen this in our church is that you have leaders that have been leading for like fifteen, twenty years, like leading a Bible talk for like fifteen, twenty years and you know, just in that same kind of p and they're just it's just the same people Noah Mata: Yeah. A hundred percent. Aaron: over and over again. And God bless them. That's amazing. But where's the other where's where's everyone else? 'Cause they're gonna get burnt out. They they're gonna be burnt out, right? Like but we need more and more people coming through, Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: and and stepping into those roles. I think that's yeah, I think that's something sustainability, Noah Mata: Mm. Aaron: I guess. is so so important, man. So yeah, I think Noah Mata: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and Aaron: it's like what you did that sounds that sounds like a great thing. Noah Mata: Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: Go ahead, go ahead. Noah Mata: And the last thing I'll say on that too is yeah, I I I do think you know, kind of what I talked about earlier, proximity. what's interesting Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: is the things that arise when there are assumptions made about generations of people, or what people would be open to or what they wouldn't be open to when you're not in proximity with them. And I think that was what was so beautiful about Capital Collective is what we ended up calling it. So what I didn't even mention is that worship collective, we essentially Aaron: Don't na don't name, don't name. Noah Mata: yeah, we essentially had that be the launch pad of our church. so what was so Aaron: Let's go. Noah Mata: amazing about that was being able to see, okay Wow. when you put different generations in proximity of one another, it really starts to make sense what we can teach one another. and Aaron: bruh, yeah. Mm. Noah Mata: you know, for example, being part of a tradition that was a bit more cessationist, man, like we're not we don't follow a Aaron: That's us. That's us, yeah. Noah Mata: god yeah, we don't follow a god whose whose spirit is dead. straight up. Like that Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: would be insane. Like we follow a God whose Holy Spirit is very alive Aaron: Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: much alive and well and operates in the way that He wants to operate. Aaron: Amen. Noah Mata: and one Aaron: Amen. Noah Mata: of the ways is yeah in the worship space. And it was really interesting is being able to see, you know, couples that were older who never raised their arms in worship, never had even the practice of listening prayer where they have a vision you know, where they have a vision come upon them and they're sharing it, depositing Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: it to somebody else. but that Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: started to happen, you know, it was insane because and the on I think one of the reasons why it happened was because we just made ourselves available. You know, we said You know, in the same way we use that passage in Aaron: Well. Noah Mata: Jeremiah of here I am, send me. we applied that to Aaron: Mm. Noah Mata: that space. It's like, here am I, send me. Like w deposit deposit whatever you need to in me. And Aaron: Holy s show us what show us what you got. Holy Spirit, yeah. Noah Mata: Yeah. And it was insane being able to see people actually get healed. There was a woman Aaron: Yeah, it's so good. Mm-hmm. Noah Mata: who came in who had cancer who stage four cancer. we administered an environment for her in which she asked for healing. And truthfully, I'm like, I have no idea if this is gonna happen or gonna work. She was in remission Aaron: Well. Noah Mata: six months later. And she Aaron: Wow, there. Noah Mata: she reported back she didn't even come to our church community on a consistent basis, but she reported back, she told us she was like, hey, just so you know, like I also felt immediate relief from my pain Aaron: Wow. Noah Mata: af after I left the building. And I'm like, I y there's you know what I mean? So I think Aaron: Dude. Noah Mata: I think there's a level of availability that I realize yeah like the Holy Spirit God through the Holy Spirit, manifested through him. yeah. I mean that was truly Aaron: Yeah, but Noah Mata: one of the greatest victories of being able to just see that. So Aaron: No, that's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah. I yeah, I mean, I think I mean, I literally my episode one, one the first thing I mentioned, and I told you about this last week, was that was my big shift was moving from cessationism to continuationism. that absolutely Noah Mata: Mm-hmm. Aaron: the gifts of the Holy Spirit, miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit completely in operation today. which then opened my eyes and my heart to see, there are other genuine spirit filled Christians in other traditions. Like it's not just our church tradition Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: that has this the true saved church. No, that's not no. There's real saved Christians and other churches and other denominations, which we'll talk about here in a bit, I'm sure. But yeah, I I really love that, man. Like just making a space for the Holy Spirit. Something that I've yeah. I just I just yeah, I think in our in our tradition I think we we we do I believe we do want the Holy Spirit to move and we do believe he can move. But I do like the idea of make space, man. Like make space. It's not always Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: gonna be c cleaned, fine and dandy. yeah And and to be honest, I've never I've never seen what that would look like in a service. So, you know, if I was DC, you know, Capitol Collective, I'm sure I would have just loved that, seeing something like that. Noah Mata: Mm. Aaron: but that's really, really cool. And I like the point that you made too about the different generations coming together. Like I think that's so important. I I think in our tradition, Noah Mata: Mm. Aaron: one of the ironic things I always think about is it's kind of ironic how we have, you know, separate ministries for different age groups of life, which I do understand Noah Mata: Sure. Aaron: there is a benefit in that. I think. I I did team ministry for you know eight years and I did campus ministry. I c there is definitely benefit in the initial connection, but I think in the sanctification process, you need other generations Noah Mata: Mm. Aaron: bro in your life. Like you can't why are we getting Noah Mata: You really do. Aaron: why we why are we getting 19 year olds to disciple each other, bro? Like or 21 year old discipling a nine. Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: Like, yes, that's good, but they need older people. I need older people. And I'm grateful that because of I I just naturally had that because I grew up in the church. I had those kinds of people in my life. But I think about people that don't, like an international student who only has the one ministry that they're a part of. Wh where's their like what you said at the very start, those platonic relationships, the older brother, older sister relationships, the different gender relationships, like all Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: those things, man, like community. And I just love that that that's the beauty of the church. It's it's so diverse and there's so much access to wisdom, perspective. But if we're only having the one thing, then I just think We stunt our growth, maybe. Or we we limit it. Noah Mata: Yeah. Aaron: so I mean, I think what you're doing is it was is amazing. and what you did there at a at Capital Collective, bro. So amen to that. But Noah Mata: Mm. Aaron: it obviously did come to an end. and again, feel free to go into as much or little detail about that as as you feel comfortable. but speak to that, kinda what happened there, and then you're in a kind of a new season of life now, and and where you're at, what you're doing right now. So Yeah, go ahead and maybe talk a little bit about that process. Again, as much as you feel feel comfortable with.