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Trail Magic: Adaptability, THC Bans & AI · Delta Dispatch

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Hello and welcome to episode thirteen of the Delta Dispatch Podcast.
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I'm joined by the illustrious team behind Trail Magic,
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Mr. Jason Dayton and David O'Neill.
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I'd love for you guys to take a moment to kind of ~ chat about yourselves
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a little bit and then we can get started.
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Yeah, thanks Ian. ~ good to be here.
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For those that ~ we haven't met ~ or aren't familiar with Trail Magic.
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~ so David and I started this company long before THC was ever ~ considered
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in THC Beverages. It was actually a hard cider company we started back
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as our senior project in college as a bunch of twenty one year olds.
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and in twenty twenty two when the law changed in Minnesota and
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THC beverages became legal, ~
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We launched Trail Magic in a period of nineteen days,
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which if you know anything about the beverage industry is a little bit
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~ insane from a timeline. And we're one of the first brands to hit
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the market in Minnesota and we've been building ~ in the THC beverage space since
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and then also continuing to build our our cider and our alcohol business nationally
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as well.
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Great.
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Yeah.
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thanks Ian for having us. ~ David,
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one of Jason's business partners,
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we've got another that ~ that does production as well,
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just to kind of fill in some gaps a little bit about our team.
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~ Jason really fills the role of kind of the sales marketing,
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~ you know, run a thousand miles an hour.
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~ I run behind Jason and try to piece it all back together for us
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to actually be able to to kind of keep up with ~ with his speed.
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And then our other business partner,
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Rob.
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~ is one of the best cider makers in the country.
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~ so he's he's got his agricultural roots,
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masters in horticulture. ~ at one point,
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you know, sold his house to move to a an orchard and grow apples.
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So really deep kind of expertise on the product ~ you know,
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side of things. And ~ yeah, it's a lot of fun to be in this THC space.
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It was a kind of an avenue that we we weren't anticipating when we first wrote
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our business plan, that's for sure.
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Yeah, I want to get into that.
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So ~ one question that I'm asked quite often is how we
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as Delta Emerald choose the teams that we want to work with and and invest with.
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And the two things that I I say most often
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is adaptability and tenacity or some version of that.
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And as listeners I think are well aware,
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~ we've been presented with many
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Iterations of what adaptability means,
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whether you're talking about ~ cannabis that preceded THC beverages
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in its current form, or the obvious ~ issues at hand in terms of ~
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the the November 12th pending potential ban on the category or effective ban.
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So ~ I say that to kind of tee you guys
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up on the concept of adaptability and also listening
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to one's customers.
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Can you guys give some context or stories about ~ I think what makes y'all special,
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which is your willingness to listen to your customer first and then
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let that lead you in terms of adapting to where the market is going or
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or where you might need to go?
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And maybe let's start with the earlier days and then we'll transition into
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how you're going to approach ~ or you are approaching the potential band that's
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coming up.
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Yeah, I mean I would say, you know,
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from our
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Cool. ~ go ahead, Jason.
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I d yeah, from from our earliest days as a company,
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~ we have ~ always needed to adapt.
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~ there's a story that David will like to tell and remind me of is when
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we started this project, I stood in front of a PowerPoint presentation
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and I said Cider is easy and it was gonna take two thousand dollars
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and we're gonna be in stores in Christmas.
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And this was, you know, three months forward from a class project.
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and that did that didn't happen.
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It didn't go any way that we expected.
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And and our business has been a story of ~ reinvention,
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you know, every six to eighteen months for almost a decade.
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And that adaptability has allowed us to survive and it's allowed us
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to see new opportunities and make make the most of them when they when they came
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around. I mean, we opened our tap room,
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our our production facility up in Minnesota,
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~ in May of twenty nineteen and our our first profitable month
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was February of twenty twenty.
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~
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Obviously, we all know what happened in March of that year.
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And, you know, it was that, you know,
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experience going through COVID,
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and we added pickleball.
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Ma maybe n not everyone will know ~ yeah,
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I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you there.
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Not everyone might know what happened then.
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So you wanna you wanna ~ explain a little bit more on that?
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Yeah, so you know, middle of March,
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just as we felt we were getting our feet underneath us as a business,
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the city of Minneapolis, you know,
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and then soon the state shut down all bars and restaurants.
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And at the time, we didn't have a distribution business.
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So a lot of brands sold way more product in total wine,
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but we only had our tap room. we only had the product sold over the bar
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and out the front door. And we were a brand new business with very little capital.
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And so we had to adjust and adapt
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very quickly. David ran our tapram at the time,
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so he can speak more to that experience.
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~ and that story has kind of repeated itself again and again.
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So as we're coming up to the potential ban on hemp in November,
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you know, we are now again looking at the business and saying,
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how are we going to keep surviving?
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What do we have to do from an organizational structure?
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And then also what are the assets that we have in terms of brand,
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product, liquid, production capacity?
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that we can now go find you know new market opportunities.
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And and for us, you know, one of the things that we launched ~ just three
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or four weeks ago was we expanded our Trail Magic brand into a new cocktail line,
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right? Of a 2.9 and an 8% ABV product.
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And that for us is is a pivot.
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We're an alcohol business, we can get into that space.
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~ By no means are we abandoning hemp or THC,
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but we are recognizing the need to make sure that the business can
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be diverse and stable so that when we get through what we
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you know, expect at worst to be a period of prohibition.
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Trail Magic and Minneapolis Cider are gonna be one of the brands that
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are are still here at the other side of it.
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And I always go back to the example,
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I think it's Line and Kugels. They sold ice cream for a decade,
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right? That's how they survived prohibition.
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I I hope we don't have to sell ice cream for a decade.
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you know, but if we have to sell ice cream for a decade,
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we will sell ice cream for a decade so that,
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you know, Trail Magic THC is here when ~ when that market's there.
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The other classic story of this was brewer's yeast,
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which ~ Anheuser Busch sold by the by the ton.
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~ but first they had to convince people to actually put brewer's yeast
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in their mouths, ~ and that was its own marketing ploy,
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if you will. But I did not know the Len Lenin Kugels.
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David, you were about to say something too.
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Yeah, I mean just to just
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to kind of double tap on you know on top of what Jason was talking about,
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even thinking about our origins,
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~ w we're built differently, ~ you know,
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fundamentally. ~ we have, you know,
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physic we have about 30,000 square feet that we lease.
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we have a physical tap room where we where we connect with consumers
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and engage ~ and and get feedback on our products.
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We have a manufacturing facility where we're constantly tinkering
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and playing with different things,
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which gives us the flexibility to
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to iterate and and to kind of have fun with our products in ways that
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if we were coping, which we do cop as well,
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that we wouldn't have the flexibility to do.
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So I think from like kind of a you know reinvention every six months or so,
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like it's just kind of it's it's how we're structured to be able
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to execute that way. And then I think the industry that we're that
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we initially chose and are in ~ didn't,
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you know, it wasn't it wasn't just all sunshine and rainbows.
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you know, we're selling cider to a population that really didn't even know what
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cider was. So how do we how do we reinvent that?
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How do we bring something to the table there?
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You know, Jason and I would go talk to people in liquor stores when
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we were first selling our first cider brand called Lionheart,
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which means bold, courageous, get out there,
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you know, and ~ we were selling it as like,
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hey, you know, you might know what angry orchard is,
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and people like, you I don't like cider.
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It's like, all right, ours is half the sugar of an angry orchard.
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And people are like, okay.
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So it's like we kind of started in this niche having to convince people who we are,
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why we should exist, and what value we're bringing to the table.
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~ even when we opened up our tap room,
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~ you know, I thought, wow, and naively,
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~ I thought, wow, you know, we're the we're the shiny new ~ tap room in the town.
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We're not beer, we're different,
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we're cider, people are gonna appreciate that.
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Nobody, you know, people came,
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but not many people, and and it's like very humbling to realize,
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like,
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You you don't just build it and they will come.
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Like you're gonna lose, you know,
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we were losing ten, twenty, thirty thousand dollars every month and
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I left my corporate job and I and to wash the bar towels ~ and and you know kind
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of make the tap everyone's like,
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what the heck did we just do? It's like,
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well, you know, you you didn't tell the story,
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you didn't get out there. So it's like,
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okay, great. How do we how do we make people care about cider?
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How do we get them excited about kind of this like,
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you know, cool heritage from the farm,
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you know, to here? It's like one of the least kind of process it's you know,
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very similar to wine, but kinda like beer.
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Anyways.
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So it's like, how do get people excited about that?
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How do we do events? How do we,
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my gosh, ~ you know, long story short,
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had a ended up with a building that was twice the size of our business plan.
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How do we use the extra space?
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~ we brought pickleball into, you know,
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the basically the the Twin Cities market in,
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you know, what November of 2019.
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There wasn't a single other dedicated court.
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We were the first ones. so it's like our we we've been we've iterated
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and pivoted because we've had to.
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Like you you sign up for ~ you know,
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you put your back against the wall,
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you take on loans, you make commitments to investors and other people,
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and and you basically, you know,
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you're looking at your community and everybody else and you know,
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and it's like, what am how am I going to serve you?
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What am I gonna do? And and you get creative and you,
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you know, you kind of you know put the gloves on and get to work.
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So I feel like the hemp ban and whatever else,
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it's like, yeah, are we happy about it?
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Absolutely not. Does it cause a lot of headache?
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A hundred percent. Are we gonna get through it?
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I think so because you know, we we just believe that we can kind
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of overcome and pivot and do different things.
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So Jason was kind of alluding to a new product line.
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We've got three new verticals.
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So it's like that's that's kind of what we do well is ~ of is just kind
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of keep moving, pivoting, iterating.
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So I think ~ and I wanna get to some of the game theory on on some
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of the scenarios ~ coming up, but before we go there,
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~ just to circle back on this this notion of adaptability,
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with a team of three co founders,
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I think a key part of adaptability is also inviting conflict
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and being willing to disagree and then commit to something.
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So can you guys
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share any experience you have with that or how do you how do you invite that type
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of conflict without making it be something where you guys are
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at each other's throats all the time.
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Unless you actually are at each other's throats and I'm just not aware of it.
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I think we're I think we're pretty friendly,
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but I you know, I'll say over the course of being in business together
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for eleven years, ~ we've had challenges and conflicts as a team.
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we've come out stronger because of that.
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Every week we ha the three of us sit down for supposed to be an hour and a half,
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sometimes it's longer. ~ it's very rarely shorter,
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you know, and sit down as an ownership group and and talk about the core issues
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of the business. Each of us I think what's unique about our business
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and the ownership structure is none of us are passive.
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We're all actively involved day-to-day.
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This is all of our full-time job,
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and we each have really unique lanes to run in.
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Right. So on my side, it's sales,
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marketing, brand development, distributor relationships,
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sales. David, it's finance, back of house,
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tap room operations. Rob, it's all of our production and logistics.
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And so our skills are very complementary and our areas are very unique.
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And so, you know, what we do well is we challenge each other by,
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you know, asking
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Good questions and when each of us comes to the table and presents,
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here's what's going on in my side of the business for the week.
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And you know, that striving to understand what's going on has made,
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you know, time and time again us make better decisions.
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~ a great example is we're we're about to launch a new large format bottle
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in Minnesota. The law changes August 1st.
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It's five milligrams per serving,
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so it's not quite the ten milligram per serving that you'd see,
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So seven seven fifty ML.
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you know, in techs.
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Kind of. No, it's not. ~
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n kind of. Okay. All right.
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Interesting.
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So, you know, for us, the law is seven fifty ml or larger,
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and that's what everybody assumes they're gonna be doing.
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And we started with that as our,
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you basis for the conversation of could we make a spirit?
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Could we make a, you know, some type of mixer,
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vodka alternative, you know, but for us it it didn't feel like trail magic.
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It didn't feel really like a unique play.
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It felt very much, you know, there's a dozen or two dozen other brands doing
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the same thing. And, you know,
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over the course of one of these ownership meetings,
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that iterated into ~
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you know, we're gonna make large format iced tea and a large format lemonade,
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so two separate skews, not a half and half,
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in a 32 ounce glass bottle like you would see at a high-end grocery store.
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Right? And for us that is something that's uniquely trail magic.
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It's different from anything else out in the market,
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its use case is different, and it wasn't something that any of us came
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up with individually. We each sort of brought little different pieces
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to the conversation and at the end of it it,
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you know, we came out with this
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new product line that we're really excited about.
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Is that mine?
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Is that Yeah, go ahead.
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And I and I think tying Ian kind
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of tying the original question into that,
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you know, kind of format, ~ you know,
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we we work well together because,
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you know, I think we we know what our strengths are and I think we have
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a mutual respect for what each other's strengths are.
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We kind of trust that and that's that's built over a long period of time.
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~ like when we make a product,
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like I know Rob is gonna hit it out of the park.
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~
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If he he does that, he's gonna make it taste great.
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I don't have to sit and kind of,
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you know, micromanage or kind of like give feedback on anything.
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Like I, you know, I just I just trust that's gonna happen.
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He's his own worst critic. you know,
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when it's like exploring new markets or getting out,
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you know, kind of sales and marketing ideas,
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I'm not like, mm, is Jason is Jason putting in the effort?
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Is he trying hard enough? Is he thinking out of the box enough?
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It's like, no, I of course I know he is.
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~ and so I think that there's like a mutual respect ~ for for each other.
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And ~
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kind of when it comes to you know new new product development,
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like that's where we can kind of lean on each other's strengths and kind
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of push each other and ~ and kind of like,
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all right, hey, if we did this,
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like does that work? And like there's kind of a general trust and like,
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you know, maybe some healthy nudging of like,
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like, yeah, I know Rob, it's another skew and I know we're at,
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I don't even know what our skew count is right now,
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but like, ~ you know, yeah, I know it's another one,
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but like, can we do it? Do you think we can pull it off?
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What resources do we need to allocate to that,
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you know, time, money, you know,
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kind of whatever, other firepower.
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to help you accomplish that. So I I think we're we're kind
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of accommodating with each other to to make that ~ to make new things happen
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and because I think that there's a baseline of trust there.
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So on the topic of making new things happen,
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now I I do want to transition to kind of the menu
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of possibilities and options ~ as we think about November twelfth.
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You already mentioned one of those scenarios,
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David, I think, which is or maybe it was Jason saying there could be a
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ban for some period of time. Let's let's put that on on
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one kind of leg of a stool.
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Can you guys walk me through some of the other scenarios that you think
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are kind of the most likely and and if you're willing to ~ offer probabilities even
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better? But I I've I've been doing this for myself and and also asking others too.
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Very curious to hear based on what you know today,
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~ what are the odds on favorite one or two potential outcomes?
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And then maybe what's the curve ball that that you think is low probability
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but but still has has some likelihood?
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I think, you know, first and foremost,
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I like to say that it is we're recording this on Wednesday,
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July twenty second at ten twenty-five Central Standard Time.
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Ha ha.
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Ha ha ha
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because, you know,
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as as in politics, you'll find that things can change very rapidly and you know,
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we're all sitting here currently waiting for the bar bill.
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And I think at the end of by the time this podcast airs,
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we'll likely have a good picture of what that looks like.
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I mean overall, you know, we are planning our business as if
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The November 12th law is going to go into effect because you know I don't know
17:05
any other way. We are not a company like we've talked about that is 100% hemp drive
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THC. We have a hard cider business,
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we have other angles, we have a tap room.
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So responsibly, we need to make sure that we manage the business accordingly.
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~ and we're also having you know proactive conversations with retailers
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and distributors to make sure that we're a brand that they understand that
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we are respecting and helping them manage their own business and risk,
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right? I want retailers.
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If the worst case scenario happens and we have a full ban and that is in place
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for a period of six months, I don't want trail magic to have been
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the brand that they felt ~ they got stiffed on or they had to throw away product
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or was an issue for them. I want to manage it responsibly,
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make as much money for everybody else as we can along the way,
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but then have this very smooth transition.
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So that's, you know, scenario one.
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I think
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And and that
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said, Jason, just to just to interject,
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you know, and that doesn't mean that,
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you know, all the all the crap in the pipeline flows back
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to the supplier necessarily either.
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We just, you know, we can't bear the brunt,
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we can't bear the entire load.
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So ~ you know, it's going to and that's why I think,
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you know, when we kind of approach,
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you know, our different partners is like,
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okay, how do we work together to solve this issue?
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Like we can't just swallow all of it.
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No no no brands can. ~ it's like we need to we need to how can the retailers,
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how can the distributors
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And the suppliers all work together to,
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you know, kind of work through inventory,
18:28
you know, and and kind of figure out any solutions to issues.
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you think that there's an understanding of that from the trade?
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Because I I I've heard different stories.
18:36
~ in some cases, maybe ~ a brand that
18:41
has already ~ I guess run low on its political capital,
18:47
so to speak, and it doesn't even sound like there is ~ leeway going into
18:53
the selling season that we're currently in.
18:55
On the other hand, I hear from folks like you that
18:59
you know, th this this kind of understanding exists.
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So wh what do you think is the difference there and and do you think there
19:05
is some variance in terms of the trade understanding,
19:08
well it can't all go back to the brand necessarily because if you want
19:12
to to continue to do bus business with us ~ in the two,
19:16
three, four year time horizon,
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you understand that we also need to continue,
19:21
you know, to be able to to to survive as well.
19:24
So how does that work?
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It's it's different depending on which part of the trade you're you're kind
19:30
of having these discussions with and and their relationships,
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right? So ~ distributors have a unique problem in that their primary customer,
19:39
the retailer, THC might only be ten percent of their business with that retailer.
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And so they need to make sure that they're managing the entire relationship
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~ and making sure that retail it retailer is taken care of.
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~ and so you all you will have distributors who will pick up product
19:54
~ because they are
19:55
focused on maintaining the long term relationship with that retailer.
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a lot of THC distribution contracts have language around ~ what happens
20:04
in the case of a ban. ~ you know,
20:07
ours incl ours included, kind of depending on the
20:08
Uh-huh.
20:09
the contract in it, you know, really at the time when these were contracts were
20:13
made, it was focused on state level ban.
20:15
So if it gets banned in one state,
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hey, can we pick this up and be a good partner and if we can move
20:20
it to another state and resell it,
20:21
you know, I'm gonna do everything possible to
20:24
To be a good partner and be able to do that.
20:25
the tough thing that I think that we've had some conversations with
20:31
our distributors and wholesalers are not just on trail magic,
20:34
but just more broadly, how are you planning the industry?
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Is you're gonna see brands go out of business.
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And so you're gonna see distributors,
20:40
you know, try to come back to brands and said,
20:42
We had a contract guarantee saying if this category ~ went under,
20:45
you would buy back all of the product in our inventory,
20:48
and the brand might turn around and just say,
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We're out of business, and you know,
20:52
I'm sorry.
20:53
You know, I can't I can't help you.
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and so, you know, I've also tried to be a a resource for our wholesalers and saying,
20:58
like, here's how I'm planning trail magic.
21:00
Let's be proactive and wind down our inventory and make sure that we've got,
21:03
you know, our highest rate of rate of sale items.
21:04
Mm-hmm.
21:06
make sure you're not stuck on long tail of inventory.
21:09
Can we proactively move this through the market?
21:11
You know, what day are you telling retailers,
21:14
hey, if you buy this after this date,
21:15
it's yours and you and you own it,
21:18
right? I'm trying to get ahead of those problems because I know they're gonna be
21:21
having some challenges with you know other brands and inventory that they just
21:26
weren't able to get rid of. And the problem too in the market is going
21:28
to get flooded. Right. If we have this November ban and that becomes
21:31
a reality and there's no fix ahead of that,
21:33
you're going to see a lot of product push to market and people are going
21:37
to just be trying to get rid of everything they can because you'll end
21:39
up in a situation, which this happened in Ohio earlier this year,
21:43
the distributors couldn't have it in their warehouse.
21:47
The retailers couldn't have it in their back room,
21:49
right? You couldn't have
21:50
be in possession of it at all in the state because then it was
21:52
a Schedule One substance. And so it became not a,
21:56
you know, November twelfth problem.
21:58
It became a, know, two weeks ahead of that problem.
22:02
Hmm.
22:02
And
22:02
so that'll kind of go distributor by distributor,
22:05
market by market.
22:06
So in a in a way we've actually seen
22:08
Mm-hmm.
22:10
Yeah, in in a way we've actually seen a preview of that if you look at Ohio
22:13
as an example. Is that a fair statement?
22:16
Yeah, yep, absolutely. But at the same time,
22:18
you will have, you know, markets where maybe it's a cannabis product,
22:23
~ you know, and that state has more lenient cannabis rules.
22:27
So maybe you can still hold on to that product and kind of figure
22:29
out something else to do with it.
22:30
Like there there's gonna be some other paths and avenues.
22:34
~ so no state is gonna be the exactly the same.
22:37
and you know, brands should think about overall reducing their inventory.
22:44
And then figuring out a state by state strategy for,
22:47
you know, how to manage that process ahead of the November twelfth date.
22:56
Okay, so if if on one end of the spectrum total ban ~ sticks,
23:02
it sounds like implicit in that scenario from y'all's perspective,
23:08
that's a total ban that lasts for some number of months to could I say up to a year,
23:15
or do you think a year is is i is too bearish in that kind of downside scenario?
23:23
I don't think
23:24
Jason's the bear and I'm the optimist,
23:26
so but he knows way more than I do about how politics works,
23:27
I don't yeah, I mean I
23:29
so
23:30
think the problem here is politics is just inherently unpredictable.
23:33
~ you know, I remember, you know,
23:36
Ian when we were back at your conference in February and and talking about this
23:41
and is Congress gonna get something done?
23:43
you know, one of the sort of offhand comments was who knows,
23:47
we could be at war tomorrow and literally flying home on the plane,
23:50
the Iran war was starting. So,
23:53
you know, Congress Congress can get
23:54
Yes, that was
23:56
yeah, that was an opening remark.
23:57
Congress can get
23:57
distracted. ~ what we hope is going to happen,
24:02
is obviously this hopefully this gets resolved before November twelfth.
24:06
If it's not resolved before November twelfth,
24:08
~ our hope is that the concern of the economic loss of jobs
24:15
in the district will motivate ~ members of Congress to fully understand
24:19
and appreciate the issue.
24:21
What I don't think a lot of members of Congress fully understand yet is
24:25
how many of their breweries and their liquor stores and their distributors
24:28
are dependent on this. People have this idea that this is just something that's
24:32
going on in the hemp of the cannabis industry,
24:33
and it's just those head shops that,
24:36
you know, maybe people didn't want in their district to begin with.
24:38
And they will be really surprised when a major brewery that's a huge economic driver
24:44
for their downtown community and their downtown revival is now all
24:48
of a sudden facing a dire financial straight because of this product category.
24:52
And we hope that that will, you know,
24:54
spur them to action beforehand.
24:55
Or if it doesn't, that that noise will be so loud between November twelfth
25:00
and the start of the next Congress that this is something that
25:03
can be addressed relatively quickly by the new Congress in twenty twenty seven.
25:07
But I wouldn't put any bets on it.
25:09
It could be a year, it could be longer than that.
25:11
We really just we really don't know.
25:18
And then ~ to push one step further,
25:21
so ~ I I think we can always talk about the upside scenario.
25:25
something gets done before November twelfth.
25:27
My opinion and I'm aligned with you guys,
25:30
better to prepare for the worst in this case and especially when you have
25:35
a pre existing business like you do,
25:37
it's easier to do that. ~ so you mentioned another kind of scenario,
25:43
maybe a sub scenario here, which is different states
25:48
approach the ban differently. can you kind of expound on that a little
25:54
bit and and like what could that look like?
25:57
Are there any leading examples of states where you think that that's starting
26:02
to materialize or we have evidence that there's a will to to find
26:09
a solution in spite of a ban and maybe
26:14
Minnesota probably is an easy one for you,
26:16
so you can take that if you want,
26:17
or or go in another direction as well.
26:21
I think what we're trying to understand
26:23
right now is, you know, what does the state rec cannabis market look like?
26:28
And then what can businesses do inside of that space?
26:31
I think there's opportunity and there's also warning,
26:35
right? So California I think is a warning in this space in that California
26:40
has a state rec program, had hemp drived products available for a period of time.
26:46
when they were removed from Total Wine and Bevmo,
26:48
they went back to the dispensaries and that that market hasn't picked up,
26:51
right? That's still 1% of sales,
26:52
and there's still only a handful of brands available.
26:54
~ so I think we're still waiting to see if the hemp drived market going
27:00
to carry over and drive people into the dispensary channel or into
27:04
the traditional cannabis space.
27:06
What I think's unlikely to succeed is a pivot to either
27:11
a.4 or this broad market pivot into.
27:16
functionals, you know, kava or other types of products that are that are not THD.
27:20
I think people are buying the product for the effect.
27:22
And if you take away the effect that people can feel,
27:24
I think you lose them you lose the market.
27:27
I agree with you there. David,
27:28
anything else to add to that?
27:31
No, I I think I'll let that land with Jason,
27:32
although I think Kava does have an effect.
27:35
I have ~ I've actually got samples coming for for that.
27:38
I haven't told you Jason just to just to play around with it,
27:41
but
27:43
See, we're always we're always pivoting,
27:44
That's a that's another R and D.
27:44
Some future future conflict. Yeah,
27:45
we're never stopping. Yeah.
27:45
We'll see. Yeah.
27:48
But you know, the other the
27:48
exactly. Yeah.
27:50
other thing that's interesting,
27:51
Ian, is I'm in I'm in Texas this week,
27:52
and you know, one of the questions that we're asking in Texas is there's
27:57
a license program in Texas, right?
27:59
~ there's licensing and manufacturing,
28:02
but you also have a government that's not super friendly to the category,
28:06
so could you operate an intrastate Texas business potentially?
28:12
Is the Texas Alcohol and Gaming Enforcement.
28:16
I'm I'm not actually sure the exact ~ acronym for their agency.
28:19
Are they gonna get involved? Will they will they be okay?
28:22
And then and then obviously there's the downstream effects of banking
28:25
and payment processing and everything else that sort of goes along with
28:28
it of operating a cannabis company.
28:29
but I do think you're going to see some really interesting market dynamics take
28:35
away. Like I don't I don't believe in this like November 12th cliff and
28:39
the thing is dead. I think you're gonna see
28:41
you know, different markets and different brands try unique approaches.
28:44
Mm.
28:44
And the question all of us are gonna have to see is like,
28:46
will that work? I think what we do know,
28:50
and and I'll be really clear, this is not coming from inside information from
28:54
our relationships with retailers.
28:55
This is just sort of, you know,
28:57
my understanding of the market is is you're not going to
28:59
see major retailers continue. ~ you know,
29:03
you're not gonna see likely the targets of the world or or some of
29:06
the big chains probably keep in the space because I think for them
29:10
it's gonna be a more of a, you know,
29:12
compliance risk where you'll see this market sort of evolve and adapt
29:15
is gonna be independence, just like we did back in twenty twenty
29:18
two at the beginning of the category.
29:20
~ and they'll lead the way and they'll kind of figure out what the
29:23
new route forward is.
29:27
I think Ian, you can look to, you know,
29:29
just kind of the rec cannabis market about like,
29:31
okay, how did how do these, you know,
29:33
businesses who are, you know, not federally blessed as Hemp was,
29:37
~ operate in states that, you know,
29:40
that have a licensing structure or something for them?
29:43
~ and kind of to touch on, you know,
29:46
some of the compliance challenges,
29:47
banking, you know, insurance, payment processing,
29:51
two ADE taxes, you know, how how do you
29:55
Can your organization jump over those hurdles?
29:58
~ and you know, I I think that there's ways for for smaller operations
30:03
or kind of more nimble operations to do that,
30:05
like our business. But ~ you know,
30:08
to kind of Jason's point, like large national retailers,
30:11
it's hard to, you know, ~ I don't even know what the analogy would be,
30:16
steer the ship, just a, you know,
30:17
it's a bigger ship.
30:19
Do you also think that that means that the largest ~ players
30:24
in the THC beverage space is it is it more difficult to adapt in this
30:29
way at size and scale,
30:32
or is it easier?
30:35
I mean, I think it probably depends on how much capital you've got and,
30:37
That's a good question.
30:38
you know, how willing how able you are to to adjust,
30:42
~ and how much runway you have.
30:44
I I I think from our own personal experience,
30:47
as we've grown as a company, it has been harder to launch new products.
30:53
I mean, we we like to talk about all the time,
30:55
you know, hey, we launched Trail Magic in nineteen days.
30:58
And we did. It was it was an incredible effort by the team.
31:01
~ new product development now.
31:03
For variety of reasons takes longer.
31:05
We're just a bigger organization.
31:06
We've got, you know, more checkboxes.
31:08
And so I think it will be a market that rewards small,
31:13
nimble companies who, you know,
31:15
have some capital, who are willing to take a risk.
31:21
Alright, so we've we've talked about some of the scenarios.
31:24
No one knows for sure. It is Wednesday,
31:26
July twenty second, and all this could change in a week.
31:29
I would love to transition now to
31:35
a a third topic that I think we're all quite passionate about and is certainly
31:40
a a hot topic of late, and that being ~ AI and the way that
31:45
AI is transforming and integrating into
31:50
these businesses and a favorite kind of way of thinking about this from
31:54
my perspective is that ~ there is no world where and people ha will have heard
32:00
me say this before ~ potentially there's no world where we download a joint from
32:06
the cloud or a beverage from the cloud.
32:08
So in in in some sense there is a a a pure form
32:13
of the physicality of of of consumer packaged goods that never goes away.
32:20
And in my mind, it's actually more interesting for that reason,
32:23
because anyone can spin up a an app now,
32:27
a mobile app, let's say it's gonna be clunky and and cost you a lot of tokens,
32:32
but you can do it. It's more interesting to me to think about how
32:36
the physical world changes as a result of AI.
32:39
And you all are in the business of producing and moving physical goods
32:45
in this world.
32:46
I would love to maybe start off to to hear how you guys got started.
32:52
And then I know ~ you've built some internal proprietary things that you use.
32:59
So I'd love to then move into a little bit more depth as far as what you're doing.
33:04
And and then at the very end of this,
33:06
we will do some show and tell and screen sharing,
33:10
acknowledging, of course, that not everyone is going to be able to watch this over
33:13
video.
33:14
So we'll do our best to kinda narrate what's going on as well.
33:17
But but yeah, I'd love to get into that topic.
33:20
Yeah, I mean so I can say, you know,
33:21
how we got started, you know, in
33:24
AI in our business is is similar to I think where most businesses are right now.
33:29
Is, you know, we're a small organization and we're always trying to find ways
33:33
to to do more with the resources that we have.
33:36
~ it's a blessing and a curse.
33:38
I can tell you, you know, being a well funded organization,
33:41
it's easy to spend money, you know,
33:42
a bit more carelessly and all of a sudden when you're watching every single penny,
33:45
you know, you you start to get
33:47
you know, really focused on, you know,
33:48
how do I maximize my time and effort?
33:50
And as three founders who are actively involved in the day-to-day business,
33:53
you know, we always have more work than is feasible within,
33:57
you know, our lives, especially as parents.
33:59
And so, you know, how do we improve the,
34:01
you know, the operations and the efficiency that we're doing.
34:04
So very basically it started with,
34:07
~ on a sales operations side of things,
34:09
how can I better analyze data for my wholesalers and be a better communicator with
34:15
my wholesalers? one of the
34:17
You know, number one things that we talk about in sales operations
34:19
and especially as a small brand working with a network of sixty plus wholesalers is,
34:24
you know, we can win by being a stronger communicator than most of
34:27
the other brands and by making sure that we show up with the right information
34:31
for the wholesalers exactly when they need it and make it very actionable
34:35
for their team. So we're not creating it an extra burden.
34:37
For a lot of our wholesalers, some of them were one of their largest suppliers.
34:41
A lot of them were were pretty small supplier.
34:43
And so we don't necessarily get
34:45
the time of day from their internal teams.
34:48
So we needed to make it, you know,
34:50
really straightforward. And one of the projects that we worked on first
34:55
was managing our target sets, which was,
34:58
you know, almost 3,000 points of distribution across 21 wholesalers,
35:03
across 350 stores, right? And so you're,
35:06
you know, trying to get to 100% ex set execution.
35:11
And making sure all of those items are in the right spots and then identifying gaps
35:16
as as long as you go. And so in that in that case,
35:18
there are existing software that you can pay for that will
35:25
do your chain management for you.
35:26
~ there are specialized software in the industry like Vermont Information Processing
35:30
that has some of these systems ready built,
35:33
but it's gonna cost you, you know,
35:35
hundreds or potentially thousands of dollars of additional cost per month.
35:40
Now, if you have the raw data,
35:41
Hmm.
35:42
your $20 a month Claude subscription ~ can get you that plus more
35:48
and make it customized for your use case.
35:50
So very simply, as I was going through this process with wholesalers
35:53
and managing this set, I would take our set execution data from Target.
35:58
You know, they would send us a list of saying,
35:59
here's the items that have been set,
36:01
here's the items that haven't been set by store,
36:02
~ by item. And this spreadsheet is,
36:05
you know, not just Trail Magic,
36:07
it's every other brand in the set.
36:08
So it's 10,000 lines long.
36:10
~ I would pair that up with ~ my distributor data and information
36:15
and which distributors covered which store.
36:17
Cause in beverage, if you kind of have been through this,
36:20
you recognize that there is a ton of data and not a lot of it's connected anywhere.
36:24
It's all living in sort of these independent spreadsheets.
36:27
And using Claude,
36:30
we were able to merge that data,
36:32
have Claude filter it for Trail Magic and have it identify the immediate gaps
36:36
~ that were left in our set execution.
36:39
And then create a live dashboard that I could send to my wholesalers,
36:44
and then they could very easily just click in and say,
36:47
Great, here's the four stores and these items that are missing for Trail Magic.
36:51
Take a screenshot, send it to their rep.
36:52
And it it is a process that you could manage with manual Excel work.
36:57
It would have taken significantly longer.
36:59
You could manage by paying, you know,
37:02
several hundred dollars or several thousand dollars a month,
37:04
or a twenty dollar Claude subscription and
37:08
Five minutes and a quick prompt ~ spits out the data,
37:11
the exact data that we needed as a business.
37:13
And so that was the start of our journey.
37:15
And I think from a sales operations standpoint,
37:17
it's a lot of those types of prompts and data processing that we use.
37:23
~ and then as I'm going through this,
37:26
I'm passing along these insights to David and kind of some of the work that we're
37:29
doing. And then David really ran with it for a lot of back-end operations
37:33
in our team, especially on the finance side of things.
37:34
So I'll let him jump into it there.
37:38
Yeah. I I mean I think that it's like a you know it's it's an amazing tool.
37:44
I think w you know we're not I I don't personally feel like I'm on anywhere near
37:48
the cutting edge. ~ I'm I'm you know trying to figure it out,
37:53
keep up with ~ all all the different changes and things,
37:56
but but it really at the end of it it's like,
37:58
okay, how do I how do I build,
38:01
you know, just as we would with any other process,
38:03
something that can, you know, kind of run,
38:05
execute, make our lives easier.
38:06
So
38:07
~ from like a financial side of things,
38:09
you know, one of the most one of the most difficult things for us
38:12
as we've expanded and kind of really grown up and changed our business from this,
38:16
you know, local cider company that's just,
38:18
you know, distributing has a couple distributors in Minnesota to like,
38:21
my gosh, I don't even I don't even what do we have?
38:23
70 distributors, Jason, something like that,
38:25
~ around the country in you know 20 different states with you know three different
38:31
brands and you know, however many different SKUs,
38:33
it's like, my goodness, ~ how do we
38:36
possibly get our arms around all of this?
38:38
How do we how do we know what SKUs are profitable when we ship it to California?
38:44
Are we even making money on kegs that we send to California?
38:46
~ how do I how do I instruct our warehouse team to you know make sure that when
38:52
we're booking freight, which when you have a war in the Middle East and
38:55
f you know freight goes you know absolutely bananas,
38:59
like ~ we're not we're not sophisticated enough to be
39:02
hedging or doing any kind of like aluminum or or oil kind of ~ hedging operations.
39:07
Like maybe that's ~ maybe that's in another decade or or maybe a couple
39:11
of years with AI, maybe I'll we'll be hedging that.
39:13
But ~ but anyways trying to use these tools to to accomplish some of those things.
39:17
So for us at a very core on the back end side of things,
39:20
~ you know, it's like I had to learn what an API was and how did that work?
39:24
~ so getting an API to connect like to you know my finan or
39:28
my my accounting software, QuickBooks.
39:31
you know, pulling that into my kind of forecasting spreadsheet,
39:33
which I basically live in and kind of have,
39:36
you know, for a decade for our business.
39:38
And pulling pulling in financial information from that,
39:42
how do I make that easy? my gosh,
39:44
every t I I update books, you know,
39:45
all the time. ~ you know, I kind of used to work at Ernst and Young,
39:48
so I'm I'm kind of dangerous enough on the accounting side to like,
39:51
you know, to meddle in there. And and and basically it's like,
39:55
okay, cool. How do I write something that I don't have to pull
39:57
a spreadsheet manually to do that?
39:58
It doesn't take long to do that.
40:00
It takes a couple hours, you know,
40:02
especially when you're learning what the heck an API is,
40:04
it takes, you know, several hours in the beginning,
40:06
setting up a developer account,
40:07
figuring this all out, you know,
40:09
banging your head in the cloud,
40:10
which is getting easier, especially with like more advanced models.
40:12
~ but r basically making the time to not work in the business but work
40:18
on it and using AI to do that is super helpful.
40:20
So kind of like tactfully, like what we do is,
40:23
you know, I have an API that connects to QuickBooks.
40:26
~ using a Python script that it wrote.
40:29
~ it I don't code. And and basically it it it pulls financials for me into it.
40:35
And then it kind of then starts to update my spreadsheet and it's like,
40:38
hey, did I add any new chart of accounts?
40:40
Sometimes accountants like to do that.
40:42
So it kind of flags different things.
40:43
And it's like, hey, I actually don't want that account.
40:45
Cause like I'm our treasurer, I'm our controller,
40:47
I'm our CFO, I'm all the different things.
40:49
~ so if if our kind of our bookkeeper does something that,
40:52
you know, kind of ~
40:54
you know, outside the outside the scope.
40:55
I don't have a robust internal controls and processes.
40:59
It's like it's two people. ~ so anyways,
41:02
I'll I'll pull that, I'll run a script to do that,
41:05
and then ~ and then then it's kind of then kind of cleaning or doing like
41:09
a budget to actuals process. How do I
41:11
Mm.
41:11
get how do I get my other owners to know what the heck is going on?
41:15
So or even my chaproom ~ hospitality director.
41:18
So it's like cool running run the budget to actuals for the company,
41:21
budget to actuals for our ~ for our production and wholesale business,
41:25
budget to actuals for our tap room.
41:26
And then kind of along with that process,
41:29
here's here's a scorecard that's again another formatted kind of separate thing.
41:33
Like most of the people I'm I love the full you know PL.
41:37
That's great. ~ but for most people,
41:40
that's wildly overwhelming. Okay,
41:42
how do I scorecard it, get kind of different metrics that really matter?
41:46
and that might even pull information that's coming outside of you know
41:49
a financial system. Okay, cool.
41:51
I need an API to ~ to my my point of sale software ~ for for the tap room.
41:58
I need an API to my you know pickleball court reservation software,
42:01
you know, what hours are doing well?
42:03
It's like, all right, cool, like let's start building these Legos on
42:05
top of each other. It's like great,
42:07
then here's here's a scorecard.
42:08
So it's like my my tap room manager,
42:10
my kitchen lead, whoever can see these numbers and like we're all
42:15
Like this is the direction we want to go.
42:16
Like, and then here's the measurements of on how we're doing.
42:20
~ and then and then on top of that,
42:22
even for like my director of hospitality,
42:23
which was super helpful, like he's like,
42:25
wow, this is amazing. It's just like,
42:26
here's a general ledger account dump of like everything that you know hits these
42:30
accounts. You're PNL, he's PL responsible.
42:33
Here's your PL, here's your scorecard,
42:35
and here's all if you want to search a transaction,
42:37
here's all the transaction, and here's a little financial package I
42:41
can give you every month.
42:42
I can run it by month, I can ask it by quarter,
42:44
I can re-update the accounting,
42:47
rerun the scripts and just like pump it out again.
42:49
So it's like trying to make these things like,
42:52
you know, in a in a Python script where it's like something changes
42:55
and then that can just run. And like I don't even have any agents that
42:58
are autonomously doing this. I'm sure that that's the next step where it's like
43:02
stuff changes or whatever else.
43:03
Like, I'm sure it could run for me and do some of these checks.
43:06
Like I'll I'm I'll get there, but I'm not sophisticated enough yet.
43:09
And then really for us is the is the kind of the ownership beyond the
43:13
you know just kind of like what happened,
43:14
like we need to figure out like what we're gonna do next.
43:17
~ and and basically like for us,
43:20
like for as we've expanded across the country,
43:23
one thing that we haven't done a great job of is figuring out,
43:26
you know, what is and like I think everybody needs to kind of shift to this that
43:30
if they haven't already, that's like what is your what is your kind
43:33
of your actual like margin contribution?
43:36
margin dollars that you get on each skew and then go further ~ by channel like what
43:43
Mm-hmm.
43:43
market
43:44
is it going to? So like getting,
43:45
you know, kind of looking at, you know,
43:47
your your kind of your system and your market and like figuring out like
43:51
how do we how do we want to set this data up?
43:53
Cause like as we've gone through,
43:54
I gosh, it feels like every year I feel like I I've changed like
43:58
our PNL structure to kind of like better fit the business.
44:01
Whereas like now I think I'm in like a structure that can at least accommodate
44:04
you know a lot more kind of growth.
44:06
it's like we have each brand has kind of like a revenue and cost side of thing,
44:11
like that's broken out. ~ and then like,
44:14
you know, kind of like a pet like if it's either,
44:15
you know, cans or or kegs or something like that.
44:18
Cause it's like every one of those choices you make,
44:20
you then have to track the costs for on the back end too.
44:23
Otherwise, kind of like what's the point?
44:24
~ so it's like you kind of have you can't just describe everything.
44:28
You have to be choosy. so it's like,
44:30
okay, that amount of work, I think that that that works for us.
44:33
And then it's like, all right.
44:34
Wow, like I don't even know when I sell a keg to California versus,
44:38
you know, ~ you know, Iowa, what's profitable?
44:41
How do I how do I kind of tag that?
44:43
So it's like we did it by state for a while.
44:45
It's like, well, I might have multiple distributors,
44:47
some might overlap. Like this isn't actually functional for Jason to then
44:50
go have conversations with distributors.
44:52
So it's like, hey, if we're investing in the market or we're not making money
44:56
in the market and we're spending too much on freight or something like that,
44:59
like it's not just like, like,
45:01
Iowa sucks. Like it's like, well,
45:02
that doesn't help. Like we might have a couple different distributors there.
45:04
It's like, how about we then change our class structure to then tag expenses,
45:09
to tag, you know, all that type of stuff.
45:11
Let's do it by market, which we consider as like basically a distributor.
45:14
or like a distributor has a bunch of locations,
45:17
like, okay, Wisconsin, like your six distributors,
45:19
like you're all the same. Like we're gonna keep we're gonna put you in a bucket.
45:21
So it's like kind of being, you know,
45:23
myth like, I don't know, considerate about how you wanna organize your data
45:26
to then ~ you know, be able to then run
45:29
For example, like what I'm working on building,
45:31
like literally, you know, right now is like cool,
45:34
like how do I have Claude then tell me ~ and I can run now a script
45:38
I haven't I'm not I'm not there yet,
45:40
but run a script to basically tell me I want a
45:42
breakdown of every SKU and the profitability,
45:46
like the margin dollars ~ by channel.
45:48
~ and I want that every month for all the products that were sold in the last month.
45:53
How do we do? And that I think is gonna be a little bit more real time for
45:56
us to be better managing.
45:58
fuel surcharges for freight to California.
46:01
So then I can go tell my, you know,
46:02
my logistics ~ you know guy in our warehouse like,
46:06
hey like like we you know these SKUs you have some flexibility on these ones don't
46:11
do that. How can we reorganize and and kind of change our our shipping processes
46:15
to be actually profitable for things because you know you just you can't
46:20
you can't let you know kind of some of the the dead weights drag you down.
46:24
~ you have
46:24
Yeah.
46:25
to have all of your if like that's why you're business.
46:27
You have to have all these things actually make sense and be adding
46:29
~ additive for you. So I kinda rambled,
46:31
You said no,
46:32
so I'll I'll stop.
46:32
that was perfect that's perfect.
46:34
You you said one thing I wanna circle back on is working in the business rather than
46:40
on the business. And ~ it
46:42
Flip that.
46:43
I'm sorry, on the business, not in the business.
46:46
Mm.
46:46
So yeah, explain that a little bit more and and I guess related to this
46:51
is in my mind everyone has kind of this journey of w how how do
46:55
you first start using it and then how does using it allow you to
47:01
I wouldn't say add more complexity,
47:03
but maybe more detail to what you were already doing before in such
47:09
a way that you can get higher quality answers or you can get closer to
47:14
a version of what you're trying to actually accomplish,
47:17
whereas before it wouldn't have been possible for you,
47:19
David, just to do that all on your own.
47:21
So ~ I'd
47:22
Right.
47:22
love to hear a little bit more about that.
47:25
Yeah. well I think just kind of the the just to that last part with like
47:29
the detail kind of side of things.
47:31
Like if I was gonna do profit contribution,
47:34
you know, by skew, you know, by channel,
47:36
I might be able to do that once a quarter,
47:40
couple times a year, kind of do some of
47:42
Mm, mm.
47:43
these pulse checks. And maybe for the size of our business,
47:46
maybe for the complexity of our business,
47:47
maybe that's okay. And like, hey,
47:49
I'm I'm not like kind of like,
47:50
you know, di- d getting all like little data points that I'm
47:53
probably not necessarily making wild decisions and changes off of,
47:56
maybe that's fine. ~ but it's it's still a it's still a burden to process and do.
48:02
And if I can set up my system to whether it's doing it monthly or doing
48:06
it a couple of times a year to be like,
48:07
hey guys, you know, we're resetting we're resetting pricing for distributors,
48:11
probably, you know, once, maybe twice a year.
48:14
so it's like as long as I've got the information for doing those,
48:17
you know, kind of types of thing within the business,
48:19
great. So it's like the AI can help me do that.
48:22
but working working in the business versus on it,
48:24
~ I mean, like the in the business is like you're managing your email.
48:30
All the crap, all the storms, all the you know,
48:34
distributor issues, product is,
48:36
you know, has an issue, ~ transportation didn't show up,
48:41
whatever. All the like the the Monday morning like fires,
48:45
the fire drills, that's all in the business type of stuff.
48:47
And anytime that like
48:49
I'm trying to learn how to get a,
48:51
you know, how to have Claude, you know,
48:54
automatically run, you know, pull an API of data and then run a script that adds,
48:59
you know, kind of some type of like dashboard or insight for me,
49:02
like that I can then repeatedly do and like that changes the way that I work,
49:07
like that's on the business. So ~
49:08
Mm-hmm. Got it.
49:11
you can't it's a balance. ~ you know,
49:14
I try to as much as possible, you know.
49:17
be working on the business, but like the reality is it's like
49:20
I'm probably working way more within it.
49:22
~ and it's like, okay, then can I find can I have somebody else hire them
49:27
to do some of the in-person stuff?
49:28
It's like, yeah, you can do like there's plenty of,
49:31
you know, things that you can do that for.
49:32
But it's also kind of an art of like,
49:34
you know, what are you giving up?
49:36
Like what and do you have kind of your,
49:38
you know, process is set up or controls kind of in place where,
49:41
you know, that person is set up for success to do that.
49:43
Or are you now disconnected? Or if you give that away,
49:46
like
49:47
How do you stay in touch? So like a great example would be like,
49:49
I do not run the day to day of our tap room at all.
49:53
Like I am out of it. That is like it is a it is death by a thousand cuts.
50:00
It is the definition of a constant
50:01
Uh-huh.
50:02
treadmill of working within the business because you have customers come
50:05
in and like they're never fully satisfied.
50:07
You can always extend more hospitality.
50:09
So like it's just, you know, there's the ball is keep getting,
50:11
you know, you pulled away from you.
50:13
~ so for me to be able to like
50:16
release that and feel comfortable.
50:17
Mm.
50:18
Like, I don't know. I'm I'm the type of person who sees a lot of things through
50:22
a financial lens. That's how I kind of like,
50:24
you know, like grab a hold of something and like kind of understand
50:28
it and feel comfortable. So it's like for me,
50:30
it's like there's that process that I was talking about.
50:32
Cool. I can run financials, I can do scorecards,
50:34
I can give these things to my my kind of manager.
50:36
And it's like I literally had this conversation yesterday and it's like,
50:39
gosh, like our pickleball sales are dropping off.
50:41
What's going on within the market?
50:43
Like
50:44
You know, like and and trying to explore that.
50:46
It's like, all right, our leagues are kind of dropping off.
50:48
We're losing competitive players.
50:49
Well, that's fine that we're losing competitive players.
50:51
We're kind of more of the social spot.
50:53
But then like kind of ideating with them of like,
50:54
you know, how do we ~ like kind of providing direction of like,
50:57
okay, how do we how do we garner more private leagues?
50:59
How do we, you know, reach like,
51:01
my gosh, like do it like the business community,
51:02
whatever. Like you can kind of start to go into kind of different things.
51:05
So it's like I
51:06
~
51:06
can kind of provide like, you know,
51:08
these these kind of ~ there's I have enough insight.
51:12
to give me context as to what's going on,
51:14
to then prompt really good questions and conversation for then the people that I've
51:18
got, you know, actually doing the day to day,
51:20
~ to then like kind of continue to give them guidance and direction
51:24
and make sure that they're kind of pointed in the right direction
51:26
and we're working on, you know,
51:27
~ working on things that I think are going to be productive.
51:30
But then it's also having great people,
51:31
you know, kind of in those spots.
51:32
So it's it's it's an art. I don't have any there's no secret sauce to that.
51:36
It's it's a thing that you're constantly working at.
51:38
So
51:38
But you try and have that infrastructure in place so you can do some
51:41
of the other processing that then makes your working in the business easier.
51:45
So if I if I can do the script that gives me the information to help
51:49
me better manage the the day-to-day in the business,
51:52
then like then I don't have to be in the business as much.
51:55
I'm I'm like freeing myself. And I think entrepreneurs in general,
51:58
like they just kind of like entrepreneurs are very,
52:01
you know, like out there and get shit done,
52:03
but they're also like, I don't want to do something twice.
52:06
That's like that's boring. Like
52:07
That's key.
52:08
I don't like and I'm an op like Jason's more shiny object.
52:11
I'm a more operator. Like I can do things more than once,
52:13
but like but like man, if we have really good work on you know,
52:17
on the business to make things that we don't have to do all the time,
52:20
like entrepreneurs love that. So like we're really good,
52:23
I think, in that as like a ~ like as a kind of an industry or kind
52:27
of like a headspace of people.
52:29
There there no, I think I mean it's it's really interesting you say that 'cause
52:32
I I f I I feel of two minds about it,
52:34
that sometimes an entrepreneur,
52:36
and I wouldn't I wouldn't call myself an entrepreneur in the way that you all are,
52:39
but everyone in this business is at some level.
52:42
There can be sometimes a ~ falling in love with
52:48
the process of doing things that if you really ask yourself like
52:52
If I'm gonna be doing this more than once today,
52:55
in today's age, there's no reason why I need to do it more than once.
52:59
I can do it once, teach a machine how to do it,
53:02
and I don't have to do it again.
53:03
Now, maybe I like to do certain things,
53:05
and so then that that that gives me more time for that.
53:09
But really asking yourself that question.
53:11
So the the maybe to to wrap this up,
53:14
I've heard about ~ a bit from Jason as far as the communication elements,
53:19
and I'd call it
53:21
Call that the business to business part of where AI has been helpful.
53:24
We are going to circle back at the final bit of this to to ~ dive in on that
53:28
of what you guys have built. David,
53:30
you've talked a lot about the internal processes that you have been able
53:35
to build or that has unlocked as a result of AI.
53:38
But just as a clarification, does that should I take that to mean that from like
53:42
a business to consumer standpoint,
53:44
is that
53:45
maybe ~ a less
53:48
less trodden ground for you when it comes to AI or or are you also doing things
53:53
in that realm as well?
57:44
we'll so so to to wrap things up,
57:48
we have decided as a collective team that we don't necessarily want
57:52
to show live data on some of this.
57:54
So ~ what we're gonna do is ask the Trail Magic team to basically replicate what
58:01
they have but with dummy data and we will include that in this podcast
58:07
in the show notes.
58:08
Great. Well thank you both so much for participating in this.
58:13
Jason, especially you dealing with the Texas Heats.
58:15
myself, I know a thing or two about that.
58:17
So ~ keep your AC on and ~ thank you both for all that
58:24
you do and thanks for listening everybody to another episode of
58:29
the Delta Dispatch Podcast.
58:31
Thanks again.