Latest / The Curve / Find Your Spending Pillars and Never Feel Guilty About Money Again.

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Find Your Spending Pillars and Never Feel Guilty About Money Again. · The Curve

0:00
First of all, could we just start by asking,
0:02
because we were very confused with the team.
0:05
Are you friend? Are you mum?
0:06
Oh my god, okay.
0:07
What is going on?
0:08
I don't know what to do about this, because...
0:10
What actually happened was when I started the TikTok account,
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which was in June last year, it was a gardening TikTok, okay?
0:15
Stop it.
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So my name was Martha Stewart-ish,
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and then, in December, when it changed...
0:20
Wait, can you explain it?
0:21
It's like, you know her Martha Stewart-ish.
0:23
I do, but does she?
0:24
She's a gardener. Like, she is the most epic gardener of our time,
0:28
and also a phenomenal business woman.
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So it kind of works quite well.
0:31
But then I kind of, like, pivoted.
0:32
I tried some other things, and I started talking about, like,
0:34
frugal chic and quiet luxury stuff, and then that took off,
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and then I got, like, a copyright infringement,
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and then I had to take the Stewart out of my name.
0:41
So then it was just Martha Thirties, like, my name's Fran.
0:44
But it's too far down the line now.
0:46
Like, there's nothing I can do about it.
0:48
I think just do your name.
0:50
Really?
0:50
Maybe just make your account, Fran.
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Something.
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I just don't want to pigeonhole myself.
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Like, I don't want it to be financed with Fran, or something like that.
0:58
You have such a unique way of thinking about money,
1:01
and I actually think this leads on really well
1:02
from what you're just saying about not wanting your TikTok handle
1:06
to be something to do with finance,
1:08
because while you are very clever with your money,
1:11
and you obviously have thought about the way you spend,
1:14
save, invest, it's not your entire personality.
1:17
I think, on the, on the inter-web, there's, like,
1:20
how to be frugal and never catch an Uber in your life,
1:24
or there's the fire movement, finance, whatever it is,
1:28
retire early, you know, there's quite a lot of extremes.
1:32
And I would say that where we sit, particularly Vic and I,
1:36
and I think you too, is the space of wanting to invest
1:40
and be clever with our money.
1:41
But I also love enjoying my life, and I want to go up
1:45
to dinner, and I want to be able to go on a trip.
1:47
And I want, I think that the narrative that you're creating online
1:50
is so important.
1:52
But I wanted to ask you, if it just sort of, like,
1:54
happened and blew up, that that happened to be something
1:56
that people resonated with, or did you look around and think,
2:00
gosh, the way that people are thinking about their spending
2:03
and their derro of luxury and versus being really frugal is off.
2:08
And I feel like I want to create content about it,
2:10
like, where did it kind of start?
2:12
I've had, like, different relationships with money,
2:15
but I think I've always been of the mindset
2:17
where I'm, like, more on the frugal side of things.
2:20
And then when you start working, and your friends
2:24
are all earning different money, like, different amounts,
2:26
and everyone's kind of in different positions,
2:28
sometimes in the same position, you start to notice
2:30
what people's money habits are.
2:31
And I don't think you see that when you're at university
2:33
with these people, but then, like, a lot of my friends
2:35
have moved over to the UK from South Africa.
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And we all just have such different ways of spending money.
2:42
And I think a lot of my friends would talk to me
2:45
about the stuff anyway.
2:47
And then I thought, this is interesting,
2:49
because these are all, like, you say, like, educated women,
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you know, who've got great jobs,
2:53
who really like doing nice things, you know,
2:56
are interested in finance to the point that it creates
2:59
an opportunity to build wealth,
3:01
but it's not like they are going home every day
3:04
and, like, trading.
3:04
It does feel like I'm the internet.
3:06
And because I started posting more,
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I noticed this really, like, I've noticed this a lot more,
3:10
even in myself, is that either you're in the camp
3:13
of people talking about Zara Halls
3:15
and shopping, like, excessively,
3:17
and talking about girl, math, and kind of, like,
3:19
removing any agency from being able to decide
3:22
whether you want to buy something or whether you don't.
3:24
To the other side of the internet, which is people
3:27
who are either doing that financial independence
3:30
retire early by living a very, like, restrictive life now,
3:34
or people giving you investment advice,
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or finance advice, which are, like, the Fin Fluencer Group,
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just assuming that everyone who is watching their content
3:42
has money left over at the end of the month,
3:44
just looking to work out how to invest it.
3:47
And I think there's a middle ground of people
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who still want to be involved in the shopping and enjoy life
3:54
and, you know, do all the nice things and have, like,
3:55
an aesthetic and, like, a great lifestyle-focused life,
3:58
but also want to get themselves to a place
4:00
where they have extra money so they can watch
4:01
their investment videos, the Fin Fluencer videos,
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and actually, like, do something about it.
4:06
And it's so interesting, because I do think
4:08
this is one of the most common things that we get asked
4:10
is how do you think about the money you have
4:15
and the life that you want to live while also investing
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or being clipped with your money,
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because there's such a weird gray zone.
4:22
Yeah.
4:23
And I would also say, I feel like even if you earn a lot of money,
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or you don't have a lot of money,
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most people feel like they don't have enough.
4:31
Totally.
4:32
And the thing that, like, I find, I'm very passionate about,
4:35
is your salary doesn't dictate your ability to build wealth,
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but is your habits.
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And I've had the same habits since I was earning 28K
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on a grad salary to now, because, and those
4:45
are the habits that have made me build wealth,
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because I have other people in my friend group
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who earn the same as me now, who haven't built the same savings
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or, you know, shit, stocks and shares, like, funds that I have,
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because they haven't had those habits from day one.
4:58
When did you start to look at your own and think,
5:01
hmm, maybe not my finest move,
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or did you learn from, like, childhood school years,
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what good habits or financial health looks like?
5:13
It's kind of two-fold, so my dad is also a child
5:16
at a content, same as me and brother.
5:19
Oh, this is the same as Victoria Harris.
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His name's Fraser, and my mum refers to him as frugal Fraser.
5:24
Like, he is the person who says no more than he says yes,
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but, like, thank goodness for that,
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because he meant that we lived a very, like,
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stable financial life, which was great.
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I kind of love Fraser.
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No, he's a legend.
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I think he, like, once got a bonus from work,
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and then he gave all of us, like, a bit of the bonus,
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which was so nice, and he put it in an investment account for us.
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I remember that, like, money being, like, it's mine,
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but I can't touch it, mine's it.
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And then I just kind of have set that up for myself now.
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But one of the best things that could have ever happened to me,
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and I hope that if the people who don't have people
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telling them this early on in their careers,
6:01
if they can hear me talk or someone talk,
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your pension fund that work gives you,
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start investing or start putting your money into that from day one,
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because that is an investment, that is investing,
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and I didn't realise that until it bounced into that.
6:15
Oh, my gosh, same.
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And like, no one explains to you, like,
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you're, like, if you have a pension, you're an investor.
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What is with that, why?
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It's the most simple thing.
6:24
Yeah.
6:24
Can we talk about your value spending?
6:27
So this is something that you talk about a lot online as well,
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and I really love it.
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And I almost wonder if I could be a little case study.
6:34
Let's start with explaining what does it mean
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to feel aligned with how you spend your money?
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I can't take completely credit for this concept
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of your authentic code.
6:43
I did a manifestation course, okay?
6:47
I listened to this podcast called,
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I think it's called To Be Magnetic,
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and she has this course that you pay like a subscription for
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this year long manifestation course.
6:55
Oh, yeah.
6:56
So you have to commit to the year.
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In there, they talk about when you write your, like,
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manifestation list to really like align with what your values are,
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and to do that, you need to work out what your authentic code is.
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So when you think about, for instance,
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like let's say, on my manifestation list was a Range Rover.
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I would think to myself, like, okay,
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what actually is it about the experience of having the Range Rover
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that aligns to my authentic code?
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And genuinely, it's about,
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it's not about showing anyone that I have a Range Rover,
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it's genuinely about like feeling really safe in a car,
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feeling really comfortable, having heated seats,
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like I love comfort, okay?
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See, I would want it because it makes me look cool.
7:32
Okay, another perfect example is like,
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if you got a business class flight,
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would the thing that makes you so excited
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about having a business class flight be the champagne
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photograph that you can take before you take off?
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All the fact that you can lie flat in the bed.
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To have us sleep.
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To have us sleep.
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Like, that's about the comfort.
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That's not about the, that's not about,
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I don't think it's about luxury necessarily,
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and I don't think it's about status.
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I had this complete brain wave.
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This was probably in November last year,
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and I'd always been pretty good with my spending,
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but the thing that I kept finding was that I would
8:00
deprive myself of things.
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So I felt in this, like, loop of deprivation.
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And deprivation takes willpower,
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and when your willpower runs up,
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then I would do an ASOS wall.
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We've all done it.
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We've all done the diet, the no carbs.
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Exactly, it's no sugar.
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You are every piece of cake.
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You're like, I don't want to kill that person,
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but that piece of cake.
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And the thing that was frustrating
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is that I actually was saving a lot of money,
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but then the money that I was spending,
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I felt like guilty that I was spending it.
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So I wasn't actually getting joy from spending the money.
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I was feeling like, oh my gosh,
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this is a lost opportunity to invest this money.
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And I was just living in this total deprived vibe.
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So then I was like, OK, I'm going to look through my spending.
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And I'm going to actually try and work out
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which are the things that I spend on
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aligned to the things that I really value.
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What things made me feel joyful when I spend on them
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and I don't bat an eyelid?
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And what things I spend on think, like, oh God,
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that was so unnecessary, such a waste of money.
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And that's when I was able to work out
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that the things that I really care about
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and don't mind spending money on is simplicity.
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So anything that makes my life more simple,
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if I've got subscriptions that are automatically coming,
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my favorite one is every three months,
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my Surrey toothbrush heads arrive.
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And I don't even have to think about it.
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Drain.
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Love that.
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I want to, like, create systems in my life that are simple.
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And it's the same with money.
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Like, I want my money systems to be set up and be simple
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so that I don't have to think about them.
9:16
Off the top of your head, can you think of other things
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that fit into the simple category or making your life simple?
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Anything that I can automate that I know
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is, like, going to be the same every single month.
9:24
If I could get my groceries delivered every two weeks
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where I don't have to, like, place the order, just arrives,
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I would love that.
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Like, I don't want to spend energy on doing those kind of things.
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But equally, I value simplicity in things like,
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not having to take three connecting flights
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to get to the destination.
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Would we say that falls into comfort or simplicity
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or what kind of both?
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Probably both.
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My, for, sort of, like, values and my authentic code
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is anything that simplifies my life,
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anything that makes them more comfortable,
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beautiful items, because I care about aesthetics and freedom.
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So things that give me, like, freedom of choice
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or freedom of time, like giving me more time.
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I look to my April spending, my April spending,
10:02
and I spend 200 pounds on ubers in the month.
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That does not bother me whatsoever.
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Because for me, that is pure comfort.
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It's usually at the end of the night
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or it's raining or there's some sort of inconvenience,
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which makes me think, do you not,
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I'd rather shave 20 minutes off by time getting somewhere
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and get in an Uber.
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So I never feel guilty about that.
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And that's got to do with keeping my cortisol levels low,
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I think, which is comfort.
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But it also simplifies my life because, let's say, tonight,
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if I have to get three tubes home or just hop in an Uber,
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that simplifies my life, I can't just hop in an Uber.
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And it's also freedom because it gives me the freedom
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to choose that way of getting home.
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I love this so much.
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Can we talk about the beautiful, expensive things?
10:39
Yeah. What fits into that bucket?
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So, yeah, it's not beauty in terms of, like, cosmetics.
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It's more that I'm not going to feel ashamed
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if there are two options of the exact same thing.
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Like, let's say there's this water bottle
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and there's another water bottle.
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And if this water bottle is more aesthetically pleasing
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and costs, you know, 20 pounds more,
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I'm not going to feel guilty
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because I chose the more aesthetic thing.
11:00
I do care about that stuff
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and I definitely think part of the reason
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why I was feeling deprived before I worked this out
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was because I would, my sensible brain would say,
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but they're exactly the same.
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So why don't you just buy the cheaper one?
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And then I buy the cheaper one
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and I'd feel, like, deprived or, like, dissatisfied.
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Now, I've got the water bottle,
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but now I'm going to look for something else,
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like, you know, like a magpie.
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I need something else that's beautiful
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that I can shiny and buy
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because that hasn't satisfied that feeling.
11:25
Yeah, okay, if we went back to the cake thing.
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It would be, like, choosing a gluten-free,
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flour-free sugar-free.
11:33
And then you still kind of want...
11:35
Yeah, it's like when you're on diet
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and you're like, I really want a piece of chocolate,
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but you give yourself an apple
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and then you have peanut butter, then you have this...
11:43
And then you're like, at the end of the day,
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I should've just had the chocolate.
11:45
How would you respond if you said,
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I would pay for business class flights
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because for me, that's comfortable.
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And that's one of my spending pillars
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and people would say, well, that's a waste of money.
11:55
No one can tell you what is a waste of money
11:57
of your money.
11:58
Like, no one can tell you what is a waste of your money.
11:59
When I got my first paycheck,
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I had moved to London and I was like in the big city
12:04
and the first thing I decided to buy
12:06
was a Joe Malone candle, okay.
12:08
Now, can you imagine expanding to your parents
12:10
that you've now bought a candle that is this big, okay?
12:14
For 40 pounds.
12:16
Like, that makes no sense.
12:17
In South African rounds, that's about a thousand round.
12:19
It's obscene.
12:21
And I remember my dad saying to me,
12:23
that is such a waste of money.
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No one can actually tell you what is a waste of your money
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because they don't know how it feels
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for you to spend on that in that way.
12:30
Personal finance is personal.
12:31
Like, it's so emotional.
12:33
There are different things that make you value
12:35
different experiences in life
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and that is probably how you will spend money
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and you can't, and the way to fix household spend money
12:41
is probably not to shame them out of it
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by telling them it's a waste of money.
12:44
That's so true.
12:45
It's exactly the kind of thing my dad would say.
12:47
Now, I want to pick up on the idea of emotional spending
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because I think that's the tip of the iceberg.
12:53
And I actually think almost the key
12:55
to this entire conversation.
12:57
For me, there's quite a few times where I've noticed
13:00
I'll spend and I'll feel really anxious.
13:02
I'll feel anxious.
13:03
And weirdly, I don't know what it is,
13:05
but new clothes, I feel like that,
13:07
really expensive new clothes.
13:09
But I love the feeling of feeling confident in my clothes.
13:11
And I love fashion.
13:13
Do you have any examples or tips for someone to start
13:17
getting a bit more familiar with the idea of understanding
13:20
that money and spending is emotional?
13:22
If you don't feel like you want to go down the route
13:25
of looking at your bank statements,
13:27
because I know it's really scary to people
13:29
and like finding out how you feel
13:30
every time you spend money,
13:31
I think you just need to think about,
13:33
well, sit with the feeling that you feel
13:35
when you do spend the money.
13:36
So if you go through your day,
13:38
let's say you wake up in the morning
13:39
and you get a coffee on the way to work.
13:41
If that makes you feel good,
13:42
or does it make you feel that like,
13:44
oh, I was a waste of money.
13:45
This is just a bit of a habit that I don't really value.
13:47
Then you stop doing it.
13:49
But if it's something that makes you feel like,
13:50
God, I'm lucky to be alive.
13:52
Then carry on doing that thing.
13:53
The one that is my worst kind of spending money
13:56
is going, like, either going out for a meal
13:58
because it's like a convenience meal
14:00
and you're just like shoving it in your face
14:02
and it's not like an experience.
14:03
It's just like eating because you need to eat that,
14:05
or when you just go out and drink
14:07
copious amounts of alcohol,
14:09
feel terrible the next day,
14:10
and now you've got no money,
14:11
and now you're going to get a delivery.
14:12
I don't know what it is about a group dinner,
14:15
as in teenage people.
14:16
I've heard you speak about this before.
14:17
A group dinner.
14:18
It doesn't like dinner.
14:19
One of my best friends is it's her birthday next week.
14:22
But there's about 10 of us going for dinner
14:24
and they're all people that love drinking.
14:26
Yeah.
14:27
And I just know it's going to be over 100 pounds.
14:30
And it's so much money
14:31
and I would way rather buy a flight
14:33
to some random part of Europe.
14:34
Not having agency over your money
14:37
is, I think, one of the worst feelings,
14:39
like it's controversial to say,
14:40
but the whole, like, wedding culture
14:43
is keeping women put because it's the hendu.
14:46
It's the, we're going overseas for this.
14:48
It's now you must get a new dress,
14:49
you must get accommodation for the wedding.
14:51
All these things is you don't have a choice
14:54
in how you spend your money.
14:55
So it doesn't even feel that nice to spend it in that way
14:58
because someone's just telling you that you have to.
15:00
And number two, when you add all those things up,
15:02
that's like, can be like a thousand pounds.
15:04
Oh my god, you're so right.
15:06
Yeah.
15:07
It is the feeling of not choosing.
15:09
Yeah, it's a horrible feeling.
15:10
It is a horrible feeling.
15:11
You did everything you can to get that money
15:13
into your bank account
15:14
and then someone else decides how that gets spent.
15:16
I've always done this and a lot of my friends do it too.
15:19
If it's your birthday,
15:21
you host people at your house
15:23
and you pay for the drinks and the snacks and stuff
15:24
because, first of all, it usually works out cheaper.
15:27
And second of all,
15:28
it's not an imposition on any of your friends
15:30
because, you know, if those 10 people,
15:31
if everyone in that group has to now go and do that
15:34
for now the, for one of those people in that group,
15:36
10 times a hundred is the thousand pounds
15:39
that they've spent on group dinners.
15:41
That is so much money.
15:43
It's just such a good point.
15:45
How did you figure out the things
15:48
that you don't care about
15:49
or don't want to spend money on?
15:50
By looking through my bank statement
15:53
and feeling that feeling of regret
15:56
for certain pounds coming out of my account.
15:58
And what for you is the stuff
16:00
that is just, I'm not going to spend money on that.
16:02
It's just a flat out no.
16:03
Clothing, a huge one for me.
16:05
Like any, I don't really buy clothing very often.
16:08
And when I do, it's something that I probably,
16:11
I would have thought about and needed
16:12
for like at least two months before I got it.
16:14
And then I'll buy that thing
16:16
so that I kind of have made my, made, made peace with.
16:19
But if there's ever like, you know,
16:21
a random 1999 from Zara on there
16:25
and I can see it's like a random Tuesday after work
16:27
where I felt panicked about not having something to wear
16:29
to something or, you know, whatever.
16:31
And then suddenly I'm now like buying this random top
16:34
that doesn't even go with anything in my wardrobe.
16:36
I hate that feeling.
16:37
Yes.
16:38
Like convenience foods, getting a takeaway.
16:40
It's not for me.
16:41
Like I would much rather order groceries
16:45
even if I'm on my deathbed hungover.
16:47
And I mean, I do get takeaways of course I do.
16:49
But like I would rather get groceries
16:51
delivered to my house for the same amount of money
16:53
and then have food for the week.
16:54
This one's, it's difficult because sometimes
16:56
it is so much fun to obviously go out
16:58
and have like a big night out.
16:59
And I have had some of my best diets
17:01
where I've spent a lot of money on alcohol
17:03
and I do value connection a lot.
17:04
So those things are important.
17:06
But it's not like the best feeling when I look at,
17:08
look at my bill on it's like packet of drunk cigarettes
17:11
and a vape, six margaritas, like, you know, not really.
17:15
But then on that same night,
17:17
I will get an Uber home from Dolston
17:19
and I don't bat an eyelid.
17:21
I'm like, that's one, that is money well spent
17:23
to get me safely into my bed.
17:25
Beautiful.
17:25
What flavor of vape would you have gone for?
17:27
Double apple.
17:31
Oh, that really took me off guard, I'm not gonna lie.
17:33
I just don't see you as a vape, I know.
17:35
Whenever I do vape, my mom says it's so embarrassing.
17:37
It's not your vibe at all.
17:39
Maybe cut that out.
17:42
So if you were to give an overview
17:44
about how you personally balance,
17:46
enjoying your life, spending on things
17:49
that you want to spend money on
17:51
with how you also build wealth for the future,
17:55
how would you describe it and what kind of split do you look at?
17:59
I hadn't really thought about this 50, 30, 20 thing
18:01
but I think I kind of do that like automatically.
18:03
My day to day spending hasn't been out of control.
18:05
It's just more about aligning it to things
18:07
that make me feel abandoned.
18:08
I kind of did it the other way around,
18:10
which is to say, 35% is usually what I spend on living.
18:13
In my rent is obviously a fixed cost
18:15
with the bills that come in, that's also a fixed cost
18:16
and I know that's about 30% of my salary.
18:19
So that means that I have about 30,
18:22
35 to 40% of my salary I can save every month.
18:24
Wow.
18:25
I think about 35, that's what I'm saying.
18:27
That's amazing.
18:28
Yeah.
18:29
For people who maybe are looking at their spending
18:32
or saving or their investment pot and thinking,
18:34
I wish I had more,
18:36
there is actually also a reality of
18:39
some of us just aren't earn enough to be saving enough yet
18:42
and that's actually a reality too.
18:44
For other people who think like,
18:45
I'm earning too little to even save a penny.
18:47
Take 100 pounds now,
18:49
which will be the same as a thousand pounds
18:51
when you're earning relative to like what you're earning
18:53
in the next thing and start the habit now
18:55
when the barrier to entry is much lower
18:57
because you can live without 100 pounds
18:58
but it's very hard when you've always spent
19:01
everything you take home to suddenly be taking home
19:04
five care months and telling yourself,
19:07
no but you can only spend four care.
19:09
But if you're doing that now and you start with the low salary,
19:11
it's a lot easier to be like,
19:12
well, my natural habit is that I spend the some,
19:14
I pay my future self first and I take that 100 or 1000 pounds out
19:18
and the rest of it I get to spend.
19:19
And I think that's what Frugal Fraser taught you
19:21
when you were younger is that not all of it is what you use every day.
19:26
You'll just spend and I think that's a really valuable lesson.
19:29
I wish I'd learned that sooner.
19:30
One of the things I wanted to talk about is the idea of just,
19:33
I guess the pressure of trends to buy, to consume.
19:38
It's everywhere.
19:39
I mean, I exhausted with all of the ads that I get served on by this,
19:43
try that, use this and honestly,
19:46
sometimes I want to throw my phone out like I should.
19:49
Like I can't actually believe what,
19:51
I can't believe that they're allowed to market to women the way they do.
19:54
Yeah, it's outright.
19:56
It is. Frightening is a really good way for it, actually.
19:58
Yeah, I don't know.
19:59
I guess I'm still definitely susceptible to marketing, to ads,
20:03
to, I'm imagining that you're probably a bit more of a,
20:08
I was going to say a strong pillar in the ground.
20:11
No, but you have to be like quite like,
20:13
yeah, you know, like a bit like, no way won't buy that because you,
20:18
you kind of have to have like your phone away, you're walled away.
20:21
Don't look at it, you know, it feels sometimes like,
20:23
don't look, don't look, don't look, don't look.
20:25
How do you block the noise out?
20:27
Actually, there are quite a few things I do for this,
20:28
but lowest hanging fruit, unsubscribe from all shopping marketing emails,
20:33
and delete the shopping apps from my phone.
20:35
I don't have really shopping apps on my phone.
20:37
I don't even have vintage on my phone.
20:38
The other thing I do is, and I only started this at the beginning of this year.
20:42
In December, I felt this like need for things,
20:46
which I don't often feel, but I've certainly felt it in the past.
20:49
And I was like, why am I going to satisfy this feeling without like going
20:53
and having to buy all these things that I think I want?
20:55
And then I started this thing called a Ritual Wishlist,
20:58
which is basically, I let myself choose four things in the quarter
21:02
that I want to buy.
21:04
And I make kind of make sure that they're aligned to that authentic code.
21:07
And then I just focus in on those four things that I'm going to buy.
21:11
Something that, you know, brings me comforts and plus deep,
21:13
beauty or freedom.
21:14
And by focusing on those things, I implicitly don't buy anything else.
21:19
Like, I really wanted to get the Westman atelier Blasch, okay?
21:22
So that was on my wish list.
21:25
And then it was really helpful because I meant that like,
21:28
anytime any other like makeup was marketed to me,
21:31
I was like, well, that's not for me because I'm not looking for that at the moment.
21:33
I'm looking for the Westman atelier.
21:34
I'm probably going to get the Blasch.
21:35
I'm going to wait for that to go on 20% off space and care.
21:38
So I think having like a focused list of things that you are going to let yourself
21:42
buy rather than again, like having the mindset, I'm not buying anything.
21:45
And I've seen a lot of like stuff people doing like a no buy yet,
21:48
where they're not going to buy a single thing this whole year.
21:50
I would way rather be measured about it and be like, okay,
21:53
they're four things that we know are going to elevate your everyday life.
21:56
So get those four things, probably don't get them on day one
22:00
because then you're probably going to be thinking you want other things.
22:02
But I like that feeling of like having four things.
22:04
I know I'm going to add to my life that are going to make me feel excited and abundant.
22:09
And then I don't feel like I think it's the focus on those things
22:13
that naturally make those other things go quiet.
22:15
Like the noise doesn't really hit me.
22:17
If you are untamored and you don't have a focus,
22:21
yes, of course.
22:21
You like everything feels exciting and new.
22:23
Yeah, whereas if you're looking for a new lamp, also you start seeing lamps
22:27
everywhere and you get to choose what the actual perfect lamp is that you want.
22:31
Exactly.
22:31
Rather than just buying something.
22:33
There's this thing called, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right,
22:36
but I think it's hedonic, hedonic.
22:38
No, hedonic adaptation.
22:39
No, never mind.
22:40
And basically what it means is that like your body, your nervous system,
22:45
where there's something really bad happens or where there's something really good happens,
22:48
it's really good at recalibrating you back to like zero again,
22:53
which is why when you buy the thing that you think is going to make you feel so happy,
22:58
the next day you're like, forgot about that thing and you want the next thing.
23:01
It's because of this adaptation that happens in your body that when you get the really good thing
23:04
or you get the really bad thing, you recover back to like zero quite easily.
23:09
It's like that with everything, isn't it?
23:11
It's like when I have the house, when I have the job, when I have the partner,
23:16
when I have the whatever, it's always, you think the external stuff is going to bring you the internal happiness.
23:22
No, just never, ever, ever does.
23:24
It never does.
23:25
It also just comes back to what everyone always says about.
23:27
There's a threshold that you need for happiness and then above that, it's not touching the sides.
23:33
So I think for you figuring out what is that line of what's my baseline,
23:37
everything else is going to investments.
23:39
Yeah, amazing.
23:40
Like figure out what your baseline is.
23:42
Know that nothing on top of that is actually going to make you any happier,
23:45
automate into investments.
23:46
Two things that I've done in the clothing side of things that I think have been extremely helpful.
23:51
One is I went to a lunch and got my colours done.
23:54
Oh, I've had this grade.
23:56
It took a while for the things to settle in, but there were so many small things that
24:01
helped me like create some distance from myself with like trends and things that I was like,
24:08
okay, this doesn't, this is, I can admire that and think it's gorgeous, but like,
24:11
it's not right for me because it's this colour and like that colour isn't a good one for me.
24:15
So that was like really helpful thing, I think.
24:17
Also made me like appreciate certain things my wardrobe and be a bit more like
24:20
discerning about what is my wardrobe.
24:22
And then another thing is there's this famous stylist called Alison Bornstein
24:26
and she talks about your three working out what your three words are.
24:29
And every time you add something to your wardrobe or you want to buy something,
24:31
you kind of need to make sure that it fits into these three words.
24:34
Oh, what are they?
24:34
It's great.
24:35
It will be personal to you, like whatever you, whatever you figure out my words as well.
24:40
So you've got to figure out your words, but one of them's like, what do you aspire to be?
24:44
One is what you feel most comfortable in and one is, I can't remember what the third one is,
24:50
but I didn't really do it in that way.
24:51
I just basically went through my wardrobe and went through pictures of myself.
24:54
And over time, of course, worked out like, when do I feel great and when do I not feel great?
24:58
And that kind of told me like what my words were.
25:01
For me, I always like to look polished.
25:03
I have tried to be the cool undone girl, like looking a little bit like hipster trainee.
25:08
I don't feel good in that kind of style.
25:09
I need to be polished.
25:11
So that's one of my words.
25:13
My other word is elegant.
25:14
I as much as I've tried to kind of, and I do, I like androgyne style,
25:17
and I do often dress in a more androgyne style, but I don't think that's necessarily the opposite of elegant.
25:22
But I need to kind of feel quite, yeah, I need to feel elegant in the way that I dress.
25:26
And then my other word is, what's it polished, elegant or in contemporary?
25:30
If I had to choose between classic and contemporary, I'd rather have a nod to contemporary
25:34
in the items that I'm wearing rather than a nod to classic if that makes it.
25:38
Do you know what this conversation has just made me think?
25:40
I've got to spend some more time with myself figuring it out.
25:43
Yeah, I've had too much time on my own.
25:45
No, no, no, no.
25:46
Because I'm just all of a sudden.
25:47
I'm like, oh, now I'm the girl that wears red sneakers.
25:50
Oh, now I'm the girl that wears this, you know, I mean, maybe just, you know,
25:55
get a bit more on us with what you like and who you are,
25:59
and everything else, I think, will flow.
26:01
The only thing I will say as I have had my colour set on,
26:03
and now the problem I have is that I just keep buying everything in pink,
26:07
because she told me it was my colour, and so now I look at my wardrobe.
26:10
What are you? What's it?
26:11
What's it? Are you in a summer spring?
26:13
I'm a spring too. I'm a spring.
26:14
And you would be a spring?
26:15
Really? Yeah.
26:16
Okay.
26:16
I'm a true spring.
26:17
I think a spring shouldn't wear black.
26:19
No, all white.
26:20
Yeah, all white.
26:21
We should wear ivory.
26:22
So if I ever wear like a white t-shirt,
26:24
because I like trying to find an ivory t-shirt in H&M,
26:27
a white t-shirt, then I often wear something up here that's the right colour.
26:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:30
God, you're good.
26:31
Do you know I've got another scarf that's silk that's like pastels
26:34
and a sale good?
26:35
Yeah, a sale good?
26:36
So if I'm wearing something that's the wrong colour,
26:38
I just throw that scarf on because I know it's the right colours for mine.
26:41
It's, oh, she's so good.
26:42
Same with like gold jewelry.
26:43
Gold jewelry's good for us.
26:44
So the jewelry's not good for us.
26:46
Oh, that's good to know.
26:46
Yeah.
26:47
I will say that I found that really helpful.
26:49
Colors quite good,
26:50
because then also you stop spending money on things that don't look good on you.
26:53
Yeah.
26:53
And also what I will say for anyone that's thinking,
26:56
I'm pretty sure I look really good in white and black.
26:58
No one looks good in white and black, apparently.
27:00
Honestly, there's no black and white in anyone's colour wheel.
27:03
Yeah, so we need to just like mix it up.
27:05
Here, I'm sitting in a black bodice that's far too tight for me.
27:08
It's not next to your face, so I think you're fine.
27:09
Thank you so much.
27:11
I would love to ask you one more question.
27:14
And then actually I have a brand and fun game.
27:16
Okay.
27:16
If you're willing to do it.
27:17
That's kind of like a quick, far question.
27:19
But I love that.
27:20
What would you say would be the key takeaway?
27:23
If someone is feeling like, well,
27:25
I don't know what my words for my wardrobe are.
27:28
I don't know what my pillars are.
27:29
And I don't have a year to go and do a manifesting course.
27:33
Yeah.
27:34
Where do we start?
27:35
To be honest, I only done the course for like a month when I did this.
27:37
So you don't need a whole year for that.
27:38
Okay, okay.
27:39
Well, I think just,
27:40
if someone is feeling God, I really do want to feel more like,
27:43
Fran, I was about to call you mum.
27:45
If you need to change your handle.
27:46
Yeah.
27:47
How would you encourage them to not feel overwhelmed?
27:50
But ideally shuffle a little bit further into the space of feeling
27:55
empowered and spending the money in a way that is a little bit more aligned.
27:58
I would say readiness is a decision not a feeling.
28:04
And I feel like I might have heard that on your podcast.
28:06
Do you know what is weird?
28:07
Is that I actually have a feeling I wasn't in this podcast.
28:10
And I think that it was with Net,
28:12
who's one of our tech advisors from Google.
28:14
She's amazing.
28:15
Okay, she said that and it's stuck with me.
28:17
The number one lesson is that being ready is a decision not a feeling.
28:25
Okay.
28:26
Yeah.
28:26
So being ready to invest, being ready to start a business,
28:30
being ready to change careers, being ready to move across the world.
28:34
Yes.
28:34
It's a decision.
28:35
I think we all sit here and white and we'll be like,
28:37
oh, when I feel ready to do it, I'll do it.
28:41
It's an illusion.
28:43
It's a choice.
28:44
Can you say how you interpret a deck?
28:47
The pension thing for me.
28:48
I wasn't ready to be an investor and put money in my pension.
28:52
Thankfully, I had my dad to tell me to do that thing.
28:55
Okay.
28:55
And I wasn't ready to park with a hundred pounds every month.
28:58
But I was like, it's around him Tuesday.
28:59
You're doing this now.
29:00
Are you signing up?
29:01
Getting it done.
29:01
So I think that's a big one.
29:03
Just decide that you're ready to do it and do it on a random day.
29:06
Don't be like, I'm going to start a Monday.
29:07
I'm going to start next month.
29:08
I'm going to do all these things.
29:09
Be prescriptive in that way that you just say,
29:12
right, I'm going to down tools.
29:13
Like, it's the same as me deciding on a random day
29:15
that I'm going to start a TikTok.
29:16
I'm going to start my Instagram.
29:17
It's like, I didn't wait to feel ready.
29:19
I was just like, you're doing, I'm just going to do this today.
29:21
And I did it.
29:21
So I think that's a really important one.
29:23
And the other thing is we need to bring back a bit of softness
29:26
with finance.
29:27
Finance is like a feelings thing too.
29:29
It's not just black and white.
29:30
Be kind to yourself.
29:31
Don't go from being a person who's buying lots of stuff
29:35
but buying lots of things and totally out of control with their money.
29:39
Don't go from that person to tomorrow being like,
29:41
right, I'm never spending another cent on a takeaway coffee.
29:44
You need to be kind to yourself to get yourself from there to here.
29:46
And I think one of the best things you can do
29:49
is doing small stackable habits.
29:51
I'm trying to think of a good example for a person
29:54
who feels totally overwhelmed.
29:56
There's got to be one small low-hanging fruit thing
29:59
that you can do that builds your confidence to make you feel like,
30:02
oh, I can do this thing.
30:03
I can do that every single day.
30:05
And then when you do that one thing,
30:06
then you start adding another thing on top of that.
30:08
Until you've got yourself to a point where you're doing multiple things
30:11
that now feel so natural to you.
30:13
And it doesn't feel like this massive jump
30:15
because I think like the moment you add restriction into something,
30:18
you've got to have willpower.
30:19
And if you're tired, if you're hungry, if you're emotional,
30:22
your willpower goes out the window.
30:23
And of course it does.
30:24
I actually think that's such good advice.
30:26
One of the things that is really aligned with
30:29
how you talk a lot about money is something that
30:31
one of the first people we interviewed,
30:33
who we actually interviewed again recently,
30:34
Frances Cook talked about,
30:36
is the idea of, I mean, you don't have to write it down,
30:38
but it's the idea of money diary.
30:39
So basically, every time you spend money,
30:42
maybe the thing that you do is just once this week,
30:45
you decide to think before you spend.
30:47
Like, am I doing this because this is quick?
30:50
Easy, how do I feel afterwards?
30:51
I think we're all so disconnected from our emotions
30:55
and like a fast, busy, you know,
30:58
like everything is quite like overwhelming.
31:01
Often we don't pause to figure out how we feel
31:04
and money is so attached to your feelings
31:07
that if you can give yourself a little bit of space to access that,
31:11
you might actually unlock a lot financially.
31:13
And I think like so many people feel like
31:16
they don't help themselves because they feel ashamed.
31:19
So like maybe by being letting us,
31:21
having some compassion for yourself in a world
31:24
we are literally marketed to like the moment
31:27
you do anything, you step out of your front door.
31:29
Be compassionate to yourself and then you don't have to feel ashamed.
31:32
So you don't have to get into a shame spiral
31:33
that might make you make the purchase that you don't use,
31:35
make it like be kind, like it's okay.
31:38
Oh god, you know, it's horrible.
31:40
It happens to all of us, but that happens to us
31:43
because we're a product of something else.
31:45
It's not our fault.
31:46
And I think like, I'm not saying take away the agency
31:48
and say, oh, you know, I fell into Louis Vuitton and now I've got a new bag.
31:53
But it's like, you can have some compassion
31:56
for women in the society.
31:58
Like, it's not easy for us.
31:59
Let's do some quick fires.
32:00
So these are spending habit quick fires.
32:02
Okay. First thing that comes into your head
32:04
don't think about it too much.
32:05
What's one thing that you always spend money on without guilt?
32:08
Ubers.
32:08
What's one thing that you'll never overspend on ever again?
32:11
Designer shoes, like I would never,
32:13
I bought a pair of Russell and Bromley,
32:15
which is not even designer.
32:16
They're 350 pounds and they can be one them twice.
32:18
What is a purchase that actually improved your life?
32:21
I want to say these salamons.
32:23
Having a waterproof shoe is top tier.
32:26
I actually have, I've had mine for like three years, they're so good.
32:28
No, it's like phenomenal to know that my feeding on me dry
32:30
gives me extreme peace of mind.
32:32
I actually do hate having wet toes.
32:34
There's nothing worse.
32:34
What's something that you used to spend money on
32:37
and you've completely cut out?
32:39
Impulse clothing, purchase.
32:41
What's currently on your wish list?
32:42
Well, there are four things on my wish list.
32:44
What are they?
32:45
What are they at the moment?
32:45
Oh, work trousers that are tall, tall, girl-friendly.
32:49
A new bra that I actually feel nice in.
32:51
Where's Natalia Bronzer and a pair of trainers
32:55
that I can wear to the gym?
32:57
Go a Q1.
32:58
Yeah, that's Q2, actually.
32:59
A Q2, yeah.
33:00
What is one money habit that's changed your life?
33:03
Paying my future self first.
33:04
What's one thing that you regret buying recently?
33:07
Oh, I think I ordered like a burger on delivery
33:09
that like the chips were cold.
33:11
It was just like so underwhelming
33:12
and I had to add so many extra condiments to make it possible.
33:16
It was awful.
33:17
It's also in there like, you're not quite at your free delivery.
33:19
You're like, trying, I'll add another.
33:21
No, it was like expensive and depressing.
33:23
No.
33:24
Do you still have any toxic spending traits?
33:27
I feel like I've gone completely blank.
33:28
I can't be, like, not this perfect.
33:30
Like, there are things.
33:31
I just can't think of them right now.
33:32
Give me one second to scroll on my phone
33:33
and I'll find something and I'm happy.
33:35
What is your most bougie but justified expense?
33:39
Direct flights back to South Africa multiple times a year.
33:42
Love it.
33:43
But not in business class.
33:44
We just need to clarify.
33:45
I don't yet fly business class,
33:46
but I would like to get to a place
33:47
where that is not a big expense to me.
33:50
It's a lot of money.
33:51
So much money?
33:52
Yeah.
33:52
What does an elevated life mean to you
33:55
in a sentence or a few words?
33:57
Feeling abundant and feeling present.
34:00
So being able to do things like go and read in the park,
34:03
garden in the garden, time.
34:06
Like, time is the thing that makes me feel rich.
34:08
What's one thing that makes you feel instantly richer?
34:12
Autonomy.
34:13
Over my time, over my money, over my life.
34:16
What's one thing that you spend on
34:18
that makes your life easier?
34:19
A cleaner.
34:20
What's one thing that you've cut back on
34:21
that's made a big difference?
34:23
Convenience foods, actually.
34:24
I spend too much at print.
34:26
I take my lunch and now.
34:27
That's the new thing that I started doing.
34:28
Take my lunch to work.
34:29
I do do it most day.
34:30
I just can't always remember.
34:31
And I think that's fine.
34:32
Like, when I don't, like last week,
34:33
I had a hectic week at work
34:35
and I bought lunch every time I was in.
34:37
And I didn't like chastise myself for it.
34:39
I was like, you've had a hard week, girl.
34:42
Go get yourself a print sandwich.
34:44
I need to really kind.
34:47
Do you know what today?
34:48
I had my little break before this podcast record
34:50
went for a little sauna.
34:52
And then I was just wandering around
34:54
and there was this really cute guy with a food stall.
34:56
And it was a vegan food stall
34:58
and I kind of missed my meat free days.
35:00
And I was like, I'm gonna buy a 10 pound burger.
35:03
And I bought it and I sat on the stall
35:04
in front of his truck in the sun and ate this burger
35:08
and it brought me so much joy.
35:11
And I wasn't convenient in the sense that I was hungry.
35:14
That's not convenient.
35:14
I mean, I was hungry.
35:16
But it was also just like, it was a moment.
35:18
And it was the day I enjoyed.
35:19
Completely.
35:20
The thing I hate about getting a work lunch
35:23
is if I'm rushing and I'm grabbing a print
35:26
like, salad or whatever,
35:28
like in between meetings,
35:30
I'm not enjoying that moment,
35:31
but we have this market now our office
35:33
and there's a Turkish restaurant
35:36
where Turkish stall there
35:37
and they do these chicken wraps that are incredible.
35:39
And if I get one of those
35:41
and then we're going to like St. James's Park
35:42
to sit in the park,
35:43
then of course I'm so happy to send it.
35:44
But I totally agree with you.
35:45
It's about a moment.
35:46
And sometimes like the simplest thing can create that moment.
35:49
Like for me seeing those,
35:50
the people reading in the sun today in the park,
35:52
I was like, that's effectively free.
35:54
But like, you must feel so rich right now.
35:57
I mean, honestly, there's not a lot better
35:59
than sitting in the sun.
36:00
Nothing beats it.
36:01
Friend, I have loved Turkey.
36:04
I really am struggling to not call you Maafra.
36:06
I will be honest.
36:07
But I have loved speaking to you.
36:09
And I think that it's just really nice
36:11
to be reminded that finance money
36:14
can be like friendly and chilled.
36:16
You don't have to be so.
36:18
This is the way to do it.
36:19
This is the perfect formula.
36:20
This is what you should invest in.
36:22
This is what you shouldn't spend, you know.
36:24
It can be exhausting trying to get it right and be perfect.
36:27
And I think that you're a really good example
36:29
of someone that is doing it in a clever way.
36:33
But it works for you.
36:35
And you're still having fun and doing nice things.
36:38
But you're also going to be able to go
36:40
and do fun things when enough you decide to retire one day.
36:43
And I just don't know.
36:44
I do sometimes get a bit, you know,
36:46
in the same way we've talked about how many ads
36:49
there are to buy things.
36:50
I get a bit like that seeing the fire movement
36:53
and the this and that.
36:54
And I've turned up to a tire because I don't know if I'm
36:58
going to be around for more than five years.
37:00
And I actually would be really sad to not spend the time
37:04
that I have doing things that I love.
37:06
Exactly.
37:07
So I think that's been a really important reminder.
37:09
And for anyone that wants to find your content,
37:12
well, we don't know what to tell them.
37:14
Desserts yet do what is it may have changed.
37:16
We'll put it in the podcast show notes.
37:17
On TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, it's Martha 30s.
37:22
And then I also have a substack,
37:24
which is one of my favorite things in the world.
37:27
If you want to get off scrolling on like fast,
37:29
consuming media and get on something slow and more intentional,
37:32
substack is beautiful.
37:33
And it's called uncompromising curation.
37:36
And I write a Friday letter every Friday.
37:39
Oh, it was so nice to meet you.
37:40
Thank you so much coming in.
37:42
Amazing.
37:43
I feel like I've met my hair at this far.
37:44
Can we hang out?
37:45
I hope it's all right.
37:46
Definitely.
37:47
I think I need some Southern African friends.
37:48
I would love that.
37:49
Oh my God.
37:50
Great.
37:51
Also, if you are good at gardening, can you teach me?
37:53
I really want to put some flowers in my backyard.
37:55
Oh my God, 100%.
37:56
I don't know how to do it, but I keep talking about it.
37:58
And I need to.
37:58
Oh, that'll be so divine.
38:00
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
38:02
These conversations are designed to teach you everything
38:04
you need to know to be better with your money,
38:06
saving, to investing, to talking with your friends
38:08
about your salaries or that stuff.
38:10
And if you like what you've heard,
38:11
we would love if you could please hit subscribe
38:13
wherever you're listening and leave a comment.
38:15
Let us know what you thought about the episode.
38:16
And it only takes one second,
38:18
and it would really make our week a month, our year.
38:21
Yeah, yeah.
38:22
So please do it.
38:23
Okay, love you.
38:24
Bye.
38:25
Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower
38:27
and educate you about investing,
38:29
but we are not financial advisors.
38:31
Our platform exists for educational purposes only,
38:33
and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice
38:36
for your individual needs and should not be relied upon
38:38
to make an investment or financial decision.
38:40
And always remember to do your own research
38:42
before making any investment or financial decision.
38:45
We're here for any knowledge and support you need,
38:47
but the final call is always yours.
38:49
And thanks for being here.
38:51
You got this.
38:51
Yeah, we know you got this.