Latest / Your Estate Matters / Episode 55 - Balancing Tech and Human Connection in Law with Christopher Martin

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Episode 55 - Balancing Tech and Human Connection in Law with Christopher Martin · Your Estate Matters

• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, and welcome to your State Matters, presented by Heritage Trust.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your State Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything of states, including building and preserving your legacy.
• 0:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it's the state-related, we'll be talking about it.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're having the conversations today that will help Canadians protect their families, their assets, and their legacies tomorrow.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chris Martin is the managing partner of Lindsey Kenny and has a broad litigation experience in a variety of corporate commercial matters.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's appeared as counsel in all levels of court in British Columbia as well as the federal court of Canada.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: As an experienced employment lawyer, Chris represents employers and employees and wrongful dismissal in discrimination matters.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Chris, thank you so much for joining us on your estate matters.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to be here.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Nicole.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us about your career.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how did you get into litigation in particular?
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: litigation sort of came naturally after I article that did some due diligence on corporate matters.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I knew that I wasn't cut out for that and looked at other aspects of the law and litigation, I think is more interactive in that interacting with your clients and you're interacting with opposing parties and ultimately interacting with the judge.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it was just a natural of what my skill said was and what I'd like to do.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are there some early cases or some moments that guided you to where you are today?
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or what was it that led you to your current practice?
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, to be perfectly honest, when I first started a club, I didn't know how long I'd last in the practice law, and then I came to Lindsey Kenny pretty much after article in spending some time with a national firm and had very good mentors who encouraged young people and sort of took an active interest in one becoming a professional and two becoming a very good litigator.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was something, it was a combination of inner drive, but also nurturing that sort of as fired me to be wanting to repay the trust the mentors had and to aspire to be as good as them.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's how it really evolved and here I am 20 plus years later.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there have been a lot of changes in practice, like particularly in personal injury, for example.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to tell our listeners what that huge change was and what that practice area is looking like going forward?
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the practice area is completely changed.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So a personal injury vis-a-vis ICBC or a motor vehicle accident, some British Columbia has been overhauled since 2022 when it went into a no fault system.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting to me in that a lot of the general public didn't realize it or does not realize it until they're in a car accident injured in a car accident and has to deal with ICBC.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the change was that you can no longer really with the very few exceptions, advance a personal injury claim arising from a car accident for your pain and suffering, for your
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: that's all legislated.
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's akin to the Workers' Compensation legislation in which the government through its agency sets sort of a schedule of how they will compensate you and care for you.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: how does that change the role of lawyers in this area like what if what it it almost negates it it doesn't become economically beneficial to the lawyer or or to the injured party advancing their claim in that because it's systematic you just have to go through the system and the cost of using a lawyer to do that is prohibitive as there really is no upside for the lawyer because a lot of this was done on contingency fee where it was sort of a
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't really know off the top of my head any lawyer who's specializing in dealing with ICBC under the no fault system.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what's this meant for the profession?
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because there was a lot of lawyers that were in that practice area.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are they doing now?
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the legacy files are the ones pre-existing are still being winding their way through the courts, which may tell the listener how long the legal process takes that there's still a number of files that are set for trial or a number of files that are still being negotiated between ICBC and the injured party.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: those are winding down and there is sort of a void for those lawyers who of course litigators and can find different areas to practice as a state litigation has been family employment.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's pivoting for the professional, but for the general public it's just they're really having to deal with ICBC on their own.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: The effect they think on the profession in general just doesn't affect the lawyer, it affects their practice.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Many of them, a personal injury lawyers on their own employ, multitudes of people, including paralegos, support staff.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that sort of either the profession is going to absorb them in different roles or they're going to have to find alternative employment.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's been sort of been working its way through in the last three or four years.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But these are often like highly skilled professionals like incredibly talented advocates.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, what are they doing?
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are they going into family or a state or employment or general civil litigation, where are they going?
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's correct.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the personal injury lawyers are in court all the time and have done jury trials.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so those that have spent a considerable amount of the career in court will find litigation to do, whether it is family, whether it is, I know that there was a big pivot within the personal injury community around a state litigation.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: their family and employment is other aspects.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, they could do commercial litigation.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: They could decide, okay, well, I've always wanted to be a criminal or I should try to practice this.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, and that's one of the aspects that's a good part of being a lawyer is, you know, is that it isn't a straight line career path you can find all aspects within a community to find where your legal skills can take you and employ you.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So tell me about you.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got quite a busy employment practice and just down like what tell me about some of those files.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so employment practice for me is acting from employers and enacting for employees.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I say employers, that is such a scope of people.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Potentially, you know, you've got multinationals versus local companies, versus mom and pop operations, or more mid-size operations, versus a single person who's a landscaper who's employing somebody to assist them.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: people, it's basically anybody who employs anybody to assist them in their business venture.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I act for both sides.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've always, I never specialized in personal injury.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: It became something of a practice that was within just being a litigator.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So since I started, I've done employment litigation.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I started what I, when I articleed it, was with a big employer-backed
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: and then evolving to commercial litigation and then personal injury picked up just as our firm took on more of that work.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I became part of the litigation team advancing those claims.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And tell me about general commercial litigation.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are the common issues that you see that businesses are needing help with?
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think right now, the biggest thing as the economy evolves is collecting your invoices and making sure you're secured for payment.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: people of my generation had a good run where money was free and flowing and usually your invoices paid and that's evolving.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So ensuring that your services, whether you're selling something or supplying something are going to be paid for and then if they're not collecting them seems to be the most common issue arising right now.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But of course any obligations between parties can be
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: any contractual breach or anything like that, usually results not usually, but that can result in litigation as well.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm British Columbia, you know, it's well publicized.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's huge cost of living issues.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've had economic pressures, certainly there's been uncertain to the tariffs.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how are you seeing that manifesting in businesses and having difficulties?
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, in my role in two aspects one is in the employment role there's a reduction of the workforce or you have employees coming and saying well look this is what I've been offered or I've been terminated what are my rights and within commercial operations it's okay enforcing
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: bills have been delayed or payment has been denied.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And those things, I think they go hand in hand with the economy.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: When the economy turns, you have more disputes about payment and more people being laid off and their rights looking at how they can be compensated in their transition period.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, they say it's interesting about lawyers.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're busy when the economy's growing.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're busy when the economy is contracting, but not necessarily when it's flat.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So unfortunately, right now we're having economic difficulty and that's generating disputes and work.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the creditor remedies is, for instance, the foreclosures, you could see that practice for a number of years contract and now it's expanding.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that, I think, is a measure of the,
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: strain on the economy or the strain on the individual, whether it's the person or the business.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you're also the managing partner of a mid-sized firm.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you manage that in the context of a busy litigation practice?
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think managing will offer them in the litigation practices about time management.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a third aspect of that too.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's my family.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I manage it
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think, as you evolve in a query, you become very skilled at managing your time and focusing your time.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I get up early and do things where it's quiet and usually those are litigation tasks because they take concentration and analysis and then the daily managing tasks are usually done at work when I'm in the office or then later in the evening when I have time to reflect or read things.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's a balance.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: As we all, I think, struggle with no matter what position or employment you're doing.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what's it like managing a bunch of layers?
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've heard it's like managing cats.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you find that?
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think somebody a professional, I think it was a mediator said to me with, I didn't know you inherited 14 children.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it is a
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Lawyers are highly intelligent and sometimes that can be difficult in trying to get a consensus because of their own independent thought, bringing so many different issues into forming one united vision.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I look at it is I'm skilled at trying to get a consensus and patients and listening is a good thing to do when you're dealing with lawyers and reflecting before making a decision so that you know sometimes in a litigation practice it's more adversarial and you can assert positions that are challenging sometimes you don't want to do that with your partners you want to take time reflect and see how the best way to message what you're after.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's a successful offer in your view?
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very good question.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a successful offer for me is where we empower people to be professionals to embrace what the practice of law is.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I say people, I include everybody.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not limited to lawyers.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's to our paralegos, our support staff, our receptionists, our back office, that we are really serving clients, people.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a people business that I think gets lost in that you have to be service-oriented.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: But a successful offer empowers the people, it employs the properly service the people it takes money from or their clients so I think it's success is recognizing how stressful lock can be for those performing it, but also obviously it's stressful those that are involved in it.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: they're most vulnerable, regardless of whether it's a family dispute or a dispute about money, this is something that litigation is the last resort.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is in something where you can have reasonable discussion and have found a solution.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're searching for a solution from a third party unless you can come to an agreement along the way.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it is stressful, so that's where you have to put an infrastructure in place that recognizes those stresses, but alleviates them by empowering and educating people about just having a good mindset when they come to work.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there have been enormous macroeconomic and technological and demographic changes like
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's that like to manage in the context of a firm and where do you see things going in the next few years?
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Technology, it's interesting to me because I think I'm...
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the two of us are in that sort of in-between age group where we were exposed to the World Wide Web and Internet, probably at university and had access to it.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were using the first cell phones and the first blackberries, I guess, where they blew berries at the time.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: what I have struggled with and perhaps maybe learning all the time is how different communication has become as a result of technology change.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That the learning that many young people in many of my young lawyers have is far different than what I experienced or what generations before me experienced and sort of a shorthand communication through your fingers is their primary form
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then coming into a profession where you're dealing with people, communicating has so many levels that isn't usually often the written word is wrong or can be interpreted wrongly about what you're trying to convey.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's sort of educating people or younger lawyers about act of listening, about picking up the phone, about having people into the office for a conversation
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: of who they are and what you're trying to achieve for them.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's also this AI explosion and I understand that it's a very good resource to filter information.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: But analysis is still has to be done and I'm sure you see it is that I can spot somebody relying on AI very quickly in how it's crafted and the level of
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: thought in the correspondence or the memo or what's going on.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's a tool that shortens the period of time in which to gather the necessary information for a lawyer or a paralegal or even for an individual client.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's the skill of advocacy or skill of any lawyer of your corporate is taking that information and adding value to it, right?
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because the information's out there, anybody can get it.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's how you're advancing the problem for your client.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that will be the, I guess it's an education piece about the technology with regarding to the profession and what you're selling to your client or what you're providing to your client.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So implicit in what you're saying is good lowering.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So all your years of experience, you leave this firm, what's a good lawyer?
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: A good lawyer, I think, is a person who understands first is wants to be a professional.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And understands that being a professional, I encourage, of course, the last society rules and ethics.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Integrity, you are put in a position of trust and you should respect it.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the basic sort of,
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: foundations that I think every lawyer is instilled upon through the legal training and practice, but it's using that day to day and then recognizing that within that is to see a problem and think, okay, but I don't stop here, what's the next level?
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: My client has a problem, I've got this resource, but how do I navigate this?
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that takes, analysis, it takes effort.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Analysis and effort, I think technology and it's one of the benefits that we over is the ease of effort of everything, right?
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I've benefited you benefit from it, but effort is still required to analyze and go with those next steps.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: something I learned early on in litigation, it was, okay, you've given me what the standard answer is.
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So now how do we solve the problem?
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's maybe a skill that has to be continued to be nurtured and emphasized.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: The ability of, you know, I give some quick analysis that looks, sounds right, it looks like effort, but it may not be effort at all.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So part of your job is building good lawyers.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you build a good lawyer?
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what do you notice saying generously?
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you've referenced that in terms of the new people coming up.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want I shouldn't generalize because I have some very good lawyers who go above and beyond and effort.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the skill set is leading by example.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need partners doing the same thing, recognizing that technology is a tool not an end all and leading by example with that and sitting down with lawyers and paralegos and saying, okay, we've got this.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do we
• 18:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: refine it.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And another example, the leading by example, is taking young people to events, you know, encouraging podcasts, the things like that, encouraging them.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always try to package it when I'm talking to a group of young lawyers is these are life skills.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're not necessarily provided, you know, if you're into advocacy, you get a chance to do that in law school and learn to speak on your feet and to advance a topic or an argument.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Conversing with people, understanding them, listening to them is a big thing of advocacy at the front end.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is understanding their story and what they want.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: But those skills are going to be at a soccer field.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be in a cocktail party where you don't want to talk to anybody.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need to learn to build some sort of connection, especially with their clients.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's life skills that it will help you when you have children and you're doing those kind of things.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or it helps you if you're wanting to volunteer for or advance interest outside of law.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to sit on boards and do the things you need to learn how to communicate and then
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: and being interested, right, I think a lot of conference years ago, there was somebody talking and he said, I tell my children two things, be interested or be interesting.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what your day should be, like you need to find your niche in that.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's basically what value you're adding to the conversation.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Lindsey Kenny, how is that different than other firms in British Columbia, for example?
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like what is its unique knee shirt or culture in the profession?
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, uniqueness is always in a uniform profession.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to say, I think the what I've, my limited experience in bigger firms versus why I'm still at Lindsey Kennedy 20 plus years is people.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And a recognition, I think, within our culture
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: everybody's in it.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: The partners I think that founded Lindsay Kenny understood that they were providing, not for themselves, that was great, but also for the associates that they brought along and the support staff because everybody relies on employment to assist their lives.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're benefiting yourself, but you're building a little bit of a community within your law firm
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is really the generosity between partners, generosity, between lawyers is an empathy.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it goes a long way in a stressful profession, in a competitive profession that if you can be generous in empathetic and compassionate to your employees, any of the people you work with, then that translates to your reputation outside the law firm.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's so much buzz right now about AI and how disruptive it's going to be, particularly for knowledge workers and white color jobs.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you see about how that's going to impact law particularly and is it, how are we going to train gang lawyers if a lot of the due diligence or administrative tasks are going to be automated?
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that's where we're circling back to the there'll be a premium on effort on those that take the time to analyze and you know to and there's there's a lot of room within that analysis right there's those that can analyze facts and assemble facts very quickly that aren't.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: boilerplated for you and those that are, you know, legal scholars who can take the next level of where the issues between the parties and apply the law that I at this stage to computers haven't beaten the
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: the human condition is so complex.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You think you've seen everything and then of course you don't.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You see each day is a new sort of add-on to all of these things.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there will be, you know, I look at as a refinement that all the time and money spent assembling will be changed.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: but perhaps there's more time in analysis and refining arguments.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It hopefully, it turns, I think everybody's been hoping for that the legal process becomes more accessible for the people that's serving, which is the general public.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't say that has ever occurred in the 20 plus years that just escalates, I'm takes, it takes, you know,
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: forever to get things done and you're hoping that with technology assisting that it can short-circuit some of this stuff, but that's to be seen, I think.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So where do you think the firm and the profession generally is going to be in 5, 10, 15 years?
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you see?
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be different.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there'll be a change in the first thing you think is, okay, well, all right, if we can have computers doing a majority of this stuff, well, how much office space and how much, you know, traditional office interactions do you need and I think it's almost that you need more collaboration or a space to collaborate with the information provided.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It may be that lawyers have less sort of traditional, I'm locking myself in a room and going through a stack of documents.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess they don't really do that now.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: They go through stacks of computer files.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is, I think, the other part of technology is that we think it refines things, but sometimes it expands things.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So document management becomes almost unmanageable.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: in from a litigation perspective, just the team advocacy and the collaborative work, it will give more time for that, I think, quite frankly.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where law firms should be doing, in my view, is doubling down on mentorship, doubling down on collaboration, and doubling down on fostering these young people who know all this technology, who assist those that don't.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what's a good mentor?
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: interested in their mentee attentive to that.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, finding time often get sort of shagrin by lawyers could say, I have no time for that.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think many people in any employment have time for that.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's making time, right?
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And prioritizing that time, actually, that a good mentor prioritizes listening and being attentive to their mentee.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you were around the same age.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've practiced a long time.
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want your legacy to be?
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those, you know, you've worked really hard.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: You've had all kinds of cases.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You've led this firm.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of impact do you want to leave?
• 25:35
  [UNKNOWN]: What?
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not leaving yet.
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I think, you know, I've...
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: always realized how big the practice or the machine of law is.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I look at more on a day-to-day basis of what impact I've had at Lindsay Kenny with the people I've worked with.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's probably the most important part at the end of the day.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Relationships with those people.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, on other sides, you know, I'd like to be known as professional
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That would be something that I would hope that would, I've carried myself that way, I'd hope that it would be recognized.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day, maybe brought some humor to it.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I thought I'd bug in here, sorry to signar me.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, can see you.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe I'd brought some, maybe I'd brought some humor along the way, because I think that assists when you're dealing in high-conflict situations.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So beyond that,
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not overly concerned about my professional reputation.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hopefully, my legacy wars with my family and my children.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where I've always looked at.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Dear children, want to be lawyers?
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't said that.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're only 13 in 10.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I can tell you, they both can certainly argue very well.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they found some skill along the way.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: They may have listened to me at a time or two.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Chris, this has been amazing.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything you'd like to leave our listeners with?
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'd like to just circle back to we touched upon the economic pressures that businesses are facing in British Columbia currently and we are built in BC business so we're familiar with that we're going through the same struggles recognizing the same problems.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: but we had a level of what knowing the region, knowing what we're facing and to being empathetic to that and understanding how to navigate those issues.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So keep us in mind.
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Nicole.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered individual legal, financial, or tax advice.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure to consult the advisor of your choice to advise you on your own circumstances.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Your State Matters.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you like this podcast, make sure to follow it on your podcast platform of choice.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether you're planning your own estate or your acting is executive for somebody else's, Heritage Trust can help.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Partner with Heritage Trust to protect your family, your assets, and your legacy.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like more information about Heritage Trust, please visit our website at HeritageTrustCompany.ca.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is produced by Piedfather Creative.