Latest / The Birth Lounge Podcast / Ep. 461: What I wish dog parents did before bringing home their baby with Dominika Knossalla-Pado

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Ep. 461: What I wish dog parents did before bringing home their baby with Dominika Knossalla-Pado · The Birth Lounge Podcast

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She was, a working line Labrador, so a field Labrador, American Labrador, not the English Labrador.
And very high prey drive.
And again, not every dog with high prey drive will have this reaction, because there are many dogs who have relatively high prey drive or high prey drive, and they will, you'll never see this.
And I was so excited.
Her dog walker brought her home, and we just let her say hi.
And I remember Seeing her body language and thinking to myself, "This is not good."
Because she was the paw up, alert,, laser focused on my children.
And it was really, really scary because she was a 60 pound dog, and they were both very little.
And what did you do about that? Were you just putting physical space between them? Hey, y'all, and welcome back to another episode of The Birth Lounge Podcast.
How many of you have pets at home, specifically dogs? And how many of you are expecting your first baby? If your hand is raised and you have a dog at home and you're having your first baby, this episode is for you.
Now, if you have a dog at home and you are expecting a subsequent child, so not your first baby, second, third, fourth, then this episode's gonna be incredibly helpful for you, but you're gonna have a little bit more history than someone who is having their first baby.
Today I'm so excited to be being joined by Dominica Nosalopato, who on Instagram is Dog Meets Baby.
She's a certified dog trainer, a children's book author, and the founder of Dog Meets Baby.
When her beloved Labrador, Lola, showed predatory behaviors toward her newborn twins, Dominica realized that most parents lack the tools and the knowledge to navigate these moments safely.
This inspired her to found Dog Meets Baby, which is now a trusted resource for families worldwide.
She has online courses, consultations, and free resources to help parents safely introduce their baby to their dog.
In today's episode, we're gonna talk about skills and cues to master before your baby is born.
How do you choose what to prioritize since the mental load of preparing for a baby is already the longest laundry list of to-do items? I wanna talk about the biggest mistakes that families make when introducing their new baby.
How do you actually do it safely? And a little clue, it ain't what you see on the internet.
There are so many videos out there of people introducing their dogs in an unsafe way, and it makes me so nervous, and I don't want you to do that.
So I'm gonna have Dominica tell us how we can actually do it safely that sets your dog up for success and keeps your child- safe in the process.
I also want to know about the theory of bringing home a receiving blanket.
Does it make a difference? Should we allow our babies and our dogs to interact? Are there any pieces of advice out there that are actually unsafe, outdated, or potentially harmful? And then finally, I wanna talk about the temperaments and breeds of dogs that maybe we should be on the lookout for more than others.
I know we're all coming to this conversation with different lived experiences and backgrounds and relationships with our dogs.
Some of us are crazy cuckoo bananas, and you decided to get a puppy also while you were about to have a baby.
And then some of you are in the boat like I am, and I've had my dog for 13 years by the time that Saggy Boy joined our family.
And so Max was an old man and an old soul, and also he was so established as my first baby that I actually had a lot of fear around bringing a human baby into our home because I had heard so many horror stories about people hating their dogs, and I didn't want that to be true for me.
We're gonna talk about all that in today's episode, so buckle up.
Without further ado, Dominica, welcome to the show.
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited for this conversation because I feel like this is a conversation that probably not a lot of people are having.
And so many of us have pets at home, but we just think about them as being like a part of...
like along for the journey, along for the ride, right? And in reality, just as much prep that we do for ourselves, for our home, for our baby, for our nurseries, for our birth plans, we really should be doing that same preparation for our pets.
And so I hope that this is a conversation that a lot of people will tune in to, and even more so, I hope that it's a conversation that they will actually take out of this episode and implement into their home and actually help their pets get prepared.
I am expecting to learn a few things that I probably could have done a little better with my own pup, Maximus, before we had Saggy Boy.
But now we will know for future children after this episode.
Um, before we dive too far into the meat and potatoes of everything, how did you get into this work? How did you become this expert in helping parents introduce their babies to their dogs? Well, I've been a trainer for a while, but then I had my children, and you know, children are the best teachers.
But it, it was really...
it was, my dog, a yellow Labrador retriever, had a very rare, very scary reaction to my children.
Oh, wow.
She was hunting for them, which I really wanna...
I, I want to make sure that everybody knows this is extremely rare.
And for some reason, it happened to me, a certified dog trainer, and it was traumatizing, but I also knew what to do.
After, of course, the initial shock of, like, how can this be happening? I did not see this coming.
And, and what I realized is that what if other people have the same experience, or if, what if other people who are not dog trainers have- A different experience where the dog is scared of the baby or maybe anxious initially and they don't know what to do.
And then I start working more with parents who are expecting, and sure enough, that's exactly what was happening.
Uh, people were word of mouth, they were finding me when they welcomed home a child and the dog was not happy about this.
And, um, back then I worked with private families in San Francisco, and then the pandemic hit and I had more time at home with my children, so not that much time, but more time.
And I started Instagram because I really enjoyed being on Instagram, and we all were more on Instagram back then.
And it just, uh, took off.
And then I realized that people were really worried about...
I never, I will never forget this one mom that messaged me and she said, Labor, I can deal with that.
But I'm so anxious.
I cannot sleep at night because I'm constantly thinking about my dog.
How is my dog going to meet my child? How is my dog going to react? What can I do to help my dog?" That already had, was reactive, and she's, she's like, "I need your help.
Tell me."
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, I want to talk about your dog hunting your children.
I know that's rare.
I, I wanna reiterate that it's very rare.
Very rare.
But what did that look like? Was she truly, like, going around your house crouching down, like, in a hunting mode? I mean, labs are hunting dogs anyway, right? Like, they are re- they're retrievers.
They're usually, or not usually, but they do, they are a breed that can be used for hunting and retrieving.
So do you think that's where that stemmed from? So she was, um, a working line Labrador, so a field Labrador, American Labrador, not the English Labrador.
And very high prey drive.
And again, not every dog with high prey drive will have this reaction, because there are many dogs who have h- relatively high prey drive or high prey drive, and they will, you'll never see this.
Um, so it was likely a combination of, what really triggered it, I think it was the movement.
I had my, my children were, I have, I have twins.
They were e- early term.
They were...
I did everything right.
They were in the crib, so it was very safe, and the thing that I didn't do back then, I didn't really give her time or didn't give myself time to watch her watch my kids from a distance.
And I just, I was so excited.
Her dog walker brought her home, and we just let her say hi.
And I remember Seeing her body language and thinking to myself, "This is not good."
Because she was...
If I had to describe it, if your dog chases- Squirrels a squirrel.
Yeah.
Or, um, bunnies.
In some places there are wild bunnies.
Or anything that's like rats or, or raccoons or skunks.
That's exactly what it looked like.
Yes, she was the paw up, alert, fully focused, uh, laser focused on my children.
And I...
And it was really, really scary because she is, she was a 60 pound dog, and they were both very little.
And what did you do about that? Were you just putting physical space between them? Were you implementing verbal commands of, "No, down, sit"? Did you start to put her in a place? What did that look like? No.
There is...
You know, she...
If your dog is so close to prey, right? Like, I don't know what she was thinking, but my guess is to her it was two squirrels or two kittens in the crib.
There is, And we never trained for that.
Like, I could recall her off coyotes because we had so many coyotes that I was able to train this.
I was pretty successful with squirrels, again, because I could train.
Here, it was a completely different environment, a different type of prey, right, for her.
So we never trained for that, so there was no way I could have recalled her.
Like, she's, she was very food motivated.
She could not care less about treats.
So the, you know, the...
Like, initially I separated her fully, and she spent the whole night, uh, standing, uh, behind the gate.
Yes, the whole...
Like, I, we were up a lot, right? Like, we just brought the kids home.
There was many feedings, so someone was always up.
Or at least it felt like that.
And she was up the whole time.
Like, I don't think...
Maybe there were moments when she was just able, probably not relax, but maybe not really staring and laser focus on them.
And and that's when I realized, okay, this is...
And I was sobbing.
I was telling my husband, "She's my fur baby.
I cannot get rid of her.
Like I'm...
We, we're not going to rehome her."
And at the same time I'm like, "But she can kill my kids."
And it was just so traumatizing.
So what I was...
And I was not in a good mental place at this point.
Also one of my children was in the NICU and, again, I did not expect that.
After very, It was a very difficult pregnancy.
I was hospitalized, I was on bed rest for two months.
So the whole thing was just, you know, it was just another thing that just happened.
And I think to me it was This one thing that I was really looking forward to was taken away from me.
And it was just, I think that was the moment, I later ha- was diagnosed with postpartum anxiety, but I really think that was the moment where that triggered it.
Because it was almost like I cannot take more.
Like to me it's too much, right? Like I already, it was the last two and a half months were very difficult.
So we s- I, I just sent her back to the dog walker who, who was amazing, and I as a trainer, I gave myself a few days and then once I felt a little bit better about the whole situation, said, "Okay, I'm a trainer.
I know what I can do."
And it was just really, it's not so much that I don't wanna share it, but every, you know, this is not, it's serious.
Let me put it this way.
The dogs who, um, hunt, they're not scared.
This is not, they're not afraid.
They are, they're ready to go all in, right? So this is actually really, really serious.
Like fear aggression, I'm probably less worried about this than predation.
So it's really, it's something where you really, if this happens to you, you just need to work with a trainer because this is not something where you can make a mistake.
You have to have a really solid bulletproof plan.
So it was more about piecing it together from everything that we have done before and everything that I knew that I, we can do right now, right? So because of the training and the preparation, going back to your initial to the introduction, that it's important to, to prepare the dogs, I think that was probably the biggest, uh, part because I really could rely on things that I trained before.
And, you know, in that moment, I have twins.
I'm so sleep deprived.
I had a C-section.
It was like semi-emergency C-section, right? Again, it was...
I, I was in a place where if someone told me, "Okay, this is your training plan, and now you have to train," I would just, I would be like, "Absolutely no."
Like there is no...
I, I, I don't, you can tell me that I have to, I can't.
It's, it's not possible right now.
So you really, this was a, this was the moment when because I, I was, my dog was so well trained, I could use everything that I have trained her before and then apply my knowledge.
And build on that for what you were- Yes seeing at that point.
Yes.
Yeah.
That must have been just so incredibly scary.
Do you think there are certain breeds that maybe tolerate new babies better than other breeds, or do you think it is the way that household runs? Do you think it's the way those pets are, you know, quote unquote parented? What do we need to know about like breeds and temperament and maybe just overall attitudes of our pets? I have to say, you're asking excellent questions that people have not asked me before.
So I'm so excited about this.
So it's, you know, I always tell parents that we don't really know how the dog is going to react until you bring that baby home.
Because has your dog met a newborn before your newborn in your house? Probably not, right? Like, if you That was the first newborn that your dog met, right? Like, your own dog.
No.
Well, so because of what I do and because, you know, I have a lot of friends that have babies.
Oh, that's right.
Because Yeah, so my dog is very much used to young children, but I would say h- you know, Max is an exception to the rule.
So he's- Exactly used to the babies and young children.
And children that move.
Both my husband and I come from large families too, so like mobile children, little small children, older children.
But that I do know is not the norm.
Yes, but newborns specifically.
Like, you know, like, many, many dogs have met a toddler, but i- it's like, you know, there was this friend who had children and the toddler came over.
But I would say most dogs, they have not met a newborn.
Right.
Right? It's something that, that happens, like, because of your profession, that's amazing because now you are probably one of those, uh, of, of very few people that can say, yeah, my dog has met newborns and has been great with them.
And you know that most likely your dog is going to react, uh, really well to your child.
Now, if you don't have this experience, like many, uh, pet parents, then we don't really know.
Like, the dog might be great and the dog might- Not be great.
Might, might be really scared.
So sometimes there are definitely breeds that I work with more frequently.
So I would say this way, that of all the breeds, and again, this is just anecdotal, there is no research, this is just me.
Uh, the breeds that I work with a lot, there are, these are Frenchies, dachshunds, uh, labs, and then there are the malamutes, huskies, and then I would say it would be pit bull mixes, right? But it's also there are many people have certain breeds.
So labs are very, a very popular breed, so I probably will be working with labs more.
But it's very it was very interesting to me when I that Frenchies and dachshunds were the ones that a lot of times their parents were reaching out to me.
Um- That's hilarious because they're such small dogs.
You would not expect them to be...
I don't know.
It is, they're- Would they aggressive? Were they territorial? What was going on? No.
No, no, no.
So if the Frenchies, you know, they're, a- and again, like I've, uh, you know, families with a French bulldog, if they're listening it may not happen.
It's not that it's guaranteed, right? This is like, let's let, like, you know, you can it's completely anecdotal.
So, what I notice, it's the certain type of Frenchies, the ones that are very passionate about life and things.
You know the ones that they will play fetch until they collapse.
Yeah.
Right? And they're just really passionate about thing, meeting people and just always full of life.
And sometimes almost you would use the word OCD about something.
And, um, so yeah, this is like the certain type of Frenchie that sometimes it can, maybe because they have not been around children or maybe because they didn't have positive experiences, I don't see a pattern here.
It's really hard to pinpoint.
It's not, n- like the ones that I work with, they just didn't have many experiences with children.
Not necessarily negative.
It was just like a big unknown.
And the dachshunds, they are hunting dogs.
Again, they, a lot of times they are just like, "What is it? Sounds like we have something that I could hunt."
So i- it, it is, I mean, they're smaller, so of course the risk is- I just had a c- private consultation yesterday with family who has two dachshunds, and yeah, it was just, you know, they're, they're there on the floor.
So it's not like there is some huge risk that they are going to like jump up or jump in the crib.
No.
That's so funny about the small dogs.
I just- Yeah I just think that- Oh, and mini schnauzers.
That is another one.
Really? Yes.
Yes.
Mini schnauzers, you know, they're also, they are very vocal a lot of times, right? So there is like a lot of barking, and I think they're very alert to noises.
So the, the, the crying particularly, that's what triggers them.
That makes sense.
Okay.
So in terms of preparation, when you were talking about having a consult, it made me question should we do this before the baby is born, or do we wait until after a baby is born? And obviously, I think the further out you prepare, the better.
So we should be implementing some sort of preparation while we're pregnant.
Is that right? Yes.
Yes.
What does that look like? That's very, that's very right.
So the y- I have a free preparation checklist, and what I recommend is that everyone downloads it.
It's for families with dogs.
And you can go there and see...
And I, I can assure there will be cer- certain things that you can check off right away because your dog knows this or you already have a plan, let's say, for you know, some people have already the dog harnessed in the car, or the dog already travels in the crate.
So if you plan on having the baby and the dog in the car, you know, dogs are projectiles, and a lot of times I remember as a new mom being a driver and having my, my children not fa- like facing away, and if I couldn't hear anything, those thoughts in my head, are they breathing, right? Is everything okay? And then they tell you you shouldn't have a mirror because that's a projectile too.
And it's just like, you know...
So imagine that if you, if you have a dog there, right? And then you hear something, and then you're, and then y- you just don't really know.
What if your dog does something, or what if your dog moves or jumps or...
Some dogs react when there is a dog outside.
They bark at the window.
What if the dog sees a dog on the side that the baby's on and then just tries to attack this, you know, the dog through the window and will step on the baby, right? So you just don't really want to have this dog loose.
And so this is something that maybe you already have a plan.
If not, it's good to have a plan.
Then there are certain things like baby sounds, and I do recommend, again, many dogs are very, they alert to noises, especially many smaller breeds.
So it's good to Play them.
And of course, dogs know this is not a real baby.
It doesn't matter.
I just want you to know it's more for your dog, but it's also for you.
So your...
I have different sounds recorded by moms.
Light cry, hungry cry.
It's the, it's, um, the pooping sounds.
I know it may sound funny, but many dogs are...
I mean, not many dogs, but there is a, a, I would say a relatively big group of dogs that they're really scared of that loud poop sound.
It's something that you want to play.
So, um, bubbling, grunting.
It's not always the crying.
You want to just play them in the background, give them some treats, play with them so they have a chance to hear it, you have a chance to see them and know, okay, my dog doesn't care.
Sometimes your dog might care.
One of the things that I always tell parents, even if your dog, even, even if you think your dog will be fine, once you have some baby items, I want you...
Let's say you have a swing or, or something that moves, right? Like, even like a snoo or what else is there that moves? I mean, you could even use- Like, um- like a rattle, I would assume, that you move- Yeah and it makes sounds and stuff, or like a baby gym, one of those arches, you know? Baby gym too, but it's more that where, um, what I'm thinking is w- that something that you put the baby in.
So why it's important, so we had, we had the mamaRoo back then, and you know, the mamaRoo has those things that are hanging, and they look like...
To my dog, that I have now a second dog, she's obsessed with playing fetch.
Of course, she would grab it.
The, the first thing that she would do, she would go for this ball, maybe stepping on the kid, maybe, you know, accidentally, like trying to like lunge at it and try to grab this.
With this thing that's moving, some dogs, uh, try to attack things that move.
Some dogs are scared of them.
So I always want you to, if you have a swing, turn it on, turn on the music, turn on whatever, the mobiles, whatever's moving there, before you put the baby in.
I want the dog to be completely neutral to this object, and I don't want them to have a reaction to it or like it because I don't want you to find out the moment you put the baby in that your dog is now attacking your swing because they are scared.
Yeah.
Wow, what a disaster that would be.
Um- And, and you know, it can happen.
Of course it can happen.
I mean, especially for dogs that- Have never been around other children.
You know, maybe- Yeah or so my husband and I are the first in both of our families to have babies, but we're very lucky that we are both part of large families- Mm-hmm where we have cousins that have had children.
But if we came from a smaller family that we didn't have cousins that had had babies, Max, this would be the first baby that Max- Yeah had ever been around, you know? So- And that's very common.
Yeah, of course.
I could totally see that being the story for so many families.
Okay, so now I'm thinking about things like, and I'm sure most families already have this implemented, but if you don't, do you think that it is a good idea to have, like, a place or for us, we call it your bed.
So we'll say like, "Max, get on your bed."
Mm-hmm.
And he goes and gets on his place.
And to start to teach maybe some commands if you don't have commands.
And then what about dogs that have kind of free rein of the home? They sleep in the bed, they get on the couch.
So for us, we did not limit or restrict Max on the couch because we knew our baby wasn't gonna be on the couch without one of us.
Mm-hmm.
But we did make him stop sleeping in the bed when I became pregnant because we knew that just having him in and on the bed while we were trying to be new parents with a newborn probably was not something that we wanted to do.
Um, and so we did put that boundary into place while I was pregnant, and he acclimated to that boundary totally fine.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm very impressed because you did all the right things.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
Yes.
So I've, this is a, some, some parents find it controversial, and I know that they don't like when I say that, but yes, having the dog in the bed, and a lot of times you don't know, maybe you will end up feeding the baby in the bed, right? I, it's, um, some parents decide to co-sleep.
It's, there are different ways that you can do that you may not be, you might have different, a different plan and then you end up doing something else.
So it's not, I always recommend let's have a different plan for the dog.
And another reason, and this is something that's, to me, it's truly heartbreaking because the, the most traumatizing messages that I get are from a mom who's now sobbing and crying and and really anxious.
She's locked into her bedroom with her dog whining outside.
The dog had a reaction to the baby that was, and it's not nothing what I saw.
What, it was just something that she didn't expect, right? Like, the dog was a little bit too hyper, a little bit too barky, a little bit too jumpy, just a little bit too intense.
But it doesn't, as a new mom- You're very protective of your baby, and you just cannot have the dog in the bedroom right now, right? Like, you- y- we are thinking, "Okay, there is no way I'm going to sleep if this dog is in the bedroom.
It's just not safe.
What if the dog japs- jumps in the crib, right?" Like, what if, what if? The, uh, the what ifs.
So you decide that night you bring the...
That the same night you bring the baby home, the dog has to stay outside.
Well, of course, if the dog was not prepared for that, that's a disaster.
The dog is going to howl, bark, and scratch at the door because they spend, let's say, the last seven years sleeping with you.
To them, it's traumatizing.
To you, it's traumatizing.
So then we have a crying baby, a crying mom, a crying dog, and, you know, the partner who tries to save everyone and it's not working.
So this is just, even if you don't plan on doing this, do it for yourself because just in case.
To me it's not safe, but it's, you know, even if, like, if you think, "Okay, I can do it.
I can somehow manage it.
I will put a..."
Sometimes people are like, "Oh, I put up a pillow wall."
I was like, what if this wall will fall apart, right? Like, to me, that's not really a wall with, like, made with pillows.
But it's just not something...
You know, this is not how you want to start this relationship between your child and your dog, because that also will impact their relationship and not what you want.
And it's just going to be...
Like, as I said, to me, these are the most heartbreaking messages because in that moment, there's not much I can do.
Like, like, you have to.
If, if your dog is trying to get to your baby and they are trying to, they are punching, like, I call it muzzle punching, but they're muzzle punching the crib and you see that they're putting two paws up and they are trying to jump up, yes, your dog is not safe around your baby.
Your dog cannot sleep in the bedroom.
So yes, w- I don't know what you did, but teaching the dog to sleep on in the living room or sometimes people add a baby gate if they have, like, a walk-in closet and they set up a nice bed there.
Sometimes people crate train the dog, or maybe the dog was already crate trained.
There are many options.
It's not like there is just one.
Um, I had two, I had several clients who just installed, like a, like a, It was almost like a mini bedroom.
The dog- the dogs had, like, a mini bedroom within their bedroom.
It was just, you know, with a, Several beds, very comfy beds and blankets and pillows.
But yeah, it was a, it was a playpen.
I tell you what- Or like an exercise pen I love it when people treat their dogs like human children.
Yeah.
I mean, that was me.
I still treat- Yeah Max like a human child.
Um, and we joke around.
You know, when we, when we accidentally call him a dog, we'll say, "What's a dog? Where's a dog?" We don't have a dog in this family.
We're all humans here.
It's so funny.
Um, you know, I'm sure people are curious what I did.
So for us, we, we just trained Max to sleep in the floor on our, in our bedroom on a bed.
Yeah.
And then he is crate trained, so worst case scenario, we would put him- Yes in his crate.
And we do have a doggy gate that we could have put up either at our bedroom door or at the bottom of our stairs to keep him downstairs, and we had talked about all of these options, and we kind of knew the scenarios in which we would- Yeah.
Perfect use each of the options.
We are really lucky.
I mean, Max is old.
He's 13 and a half, and he was 13- Exactly.
Yeah.
That plays a big role, too.
If you have an older senior dog, yes, of course it's different.
Rather than a puppy.
Yeah.
Or, or, like, if you have a three-year-old German shepherd that competes in agility, right? The jumping sport.
God.
Well, like, it's, it's just you have to take into consideration the breed, the age, the dog's size.
If I have a tiny little Chihuahua that's 18, yes, that dog can sleep w- you know, in the bedroom.
Absolutely.
Even if this dog is not, not having it with the baby, the dog can sleep.
They're not gonna, they're not going to do anything.
Yeah.
They won't be able to jump in the crib.
No.
They're not going to be able to kind of pummel you.
So that was one thing, um, that I experienced is, you know, Max wanted to be right up under me in pregnancy, and that was fine.
That was totally fine.
I didn't have a baby.
I had a big old belly, but you know, him being kind of right next to me, I honestly thought it was cute.
I- Yeah loved it.
I thought, "Oh, my God.
He's being so protective.
He knows I'm pregnant.
I bet he-" Yes "he wants the baby."
Yeah that changed in postpartum, though, because when you're trying to go downstairs, and you're sleep deprived, and the baby's- Yeah crying, and your boobs are leaking- Yeah and you've got a dog under your feet, it will- Yeah make you feel a different type of rage than you have- Yeah ever felt in your life.
And so, you know, we really had to Be very strict about Max being on his bed- Mm-hmm when he was up and mobile.
And then my husband- Yeah would bring him up, or we would get upstairs and we would call Max, and then he could come upstairs.
But we really, in the beginning, we had to be just really on top of him not being underneath my feet, because it gave me so much anxiety that I was going to fall while- Yeah holding our baby.
And it made me, like I say, irrationally angry with him.
Yes.
And then I just felt guilty.
I didn't want- Yes.
to feel so angry at him.
And a- another thing is that when I was pregnant, I had so many people tell me, and you know, the in- the algorithm targets you, but I saw so many videos of people saying, "I hate my dog.
I, I want to give my dog away.
I re-homed my dog."
And I went into postpartum with so much anxiety about, like- Mm I hope I love Max the same.
I don't wanna hate Max.
I don't want this and that.
I did not feel any hatred towards Max.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't change my feelings towards him at all.
If anything, it made me love him more, because he is so good with Saggy.
And now that Saggy is sitting up and able to interact- Mm-hmm with him, Max will come over and position kind of his butt towards Saggy.
Like- you can pet me and I'm just gonna sit here, and then whenever he's done, he just gets up and he walks away.
Aw.
And we teach Saggy, like, okay, Max is done.
Like- Yeah Max is all done having pets and stuff.
And we teach Saggy, like, gentle hands.
I was so scared I was gonna hate Max.
So what do you, w- uh, talk to us about that hatred that comes for our dogs.
And then if anyone is out there in the shoes that I was in of just being so scared that they're gonna hate their first f- fur baby, what do you say to those fa- those families? Yes.
Yes, but before I do this, I want to point out th- because, uh, you ask about the, the training, but I want to point out the two things that you did, 'cause people can learn from you.
You did everything right.
You trained your dog to go to bed, and that's like the, to me, this is, if you were to train one cue, one command, train your dog go to bed and stay, because you're going to need this.
The second thing that you did is you taught your dog to be comfortable, like one of your options was we're going to put a gate and the dog is going to be downstairs, right? Like you to- you taught your dog to be okay being separated, and that's something that I always tell parents.
You're going to need this at some point, even if right now you're together, and maybe you will imagine that you will be always together.
There will be times when you will have to separate your dog from your child.
Especially, you know, once you have a crawling baby and that baby grabs your dog really hard, and then your dog, uh, yelps And, and you're like, "Oh, okay.
I guess we shouldn't be together right now because the baby is so grabby and c- doesn't understand don't do it.
Let's have m- let's have the dog behind the gate," right? So this is something that you will need at some point.
Um, so these are the two things.
Now, let's go back to your question about the hatred.
I think, you know, to me, and I do Uh, so I have posted about guilt or about grief or about resentment, and I po- you know, I, I post them because I know that the people who have those feelings later, and it's, it's just when I post them there are almost always many comments, and the majority of comments are the comments of people who also went through the resentment or you know, they feel guilty or they feel the grief.
But there are also comments that s- uh, were exactly what you said, like, "I was so I read those posts about, uh, feeling guilty or f- or feeling resentment towards my dog or and then it didn't happen, and I And those posts or, you know, like, the algorithm that was showing me those videos, those reels, it really scared me because I was afraid that's going to be me."
And I always, to me, it's what should I choose, right? It's, it's not So I always tell parents, now, this is for people who might feel this way, but I also started adding, when I do that post, I mix up the happy stories, right? It's not just.
You can feel this, and it's not I don't want you to feel bad, because a lot of times the resentment is temporary.
It's just something because you are a new mom, and it's just everything is new and then you will be in a much better place, right? So just, so just to know that you're not This is normal.
But I also want you to know that there are parents who are not going to feel it, and it's the opposite.
They're going to feel so much love, it's almost like your heart expanded and now you, you love your dog more.
And it's just, it's not that o- one is right or one is wrong.
It's just And, and it's not something that you can plan.
And there are al- always the comments where people say "I thought I wouldn't be this mom who would resent a dog."
And then I went through this, right? So it's, it can be...
It's not something that you can plan for.
But I do tell parents, if you don't plan, if you don't train your dog, and it's just going to be really hard because now your dog...
Like, imagine that you didn't train any of that what you did, right? And now you cannot separate your dog.
Your dog cries and barks for hours when your dog is in the crate or behind a gate.
Of course you're going to be upset.
With all the sensory overload, if your dog barks nonstop, that's a lot on, on the nervous system.
And then your, you might resent your dog more because of that, right? So if you do not do any of that, then it's just going to be much harder.
So I, I always tell parents, like, let's have some plan for the fourth trimester.
Because if your, your plan is like, I will be walking the child and the dog and the let's just cancel the dog walker, well, that might not be the best plan.
Let's just plan some, let's just outsource some of the exercise at least because what if your healing is longer? Or what if your, your baby is like my, uh, my, one of my kids was colicky, right? That was, I didn't, I didn't know that, uh, he would be crying from midnight till 6:00 AM.
A- and then, you know, it's just, and then my daughter had torticollis, and it was just, you know, there are things that you just don't know.
And then I, she needed way more appointments, and she needed PT, and it was just so much more.
And because my son was breech, we also needed more things, and then he was in the NICU, so then we needed more follow-up appointments that I also didn't plan for.
I was very surprised how many appointments there are, but then we needed way more because of the twins.
Yeah.
Let me ask you something.
Have you gotten your hands on my free download of my non-toxic baby registry list? It's all of the things that I put on my personal baby registry, and I spent hours, like 60-plus hours, exploring, researching, deep diving, rabbit holing into every single thing that went on this baby list.
I was really intentional about everything that I put on.
Number one, I didn't want to just get a bunch of stuff, because I personally believe that You know, I don't necessarily identify as a minimalist, but I also do believe that babies come with a lot of things, and people love to just gift you stuff when you have a baby.
However, I didn't really want my house to be filled with just a bunch of stuff, so I was very intentional about the things that I put on there.
And if there were tools and gear and things that could have a multipurpose in our home, then I went with that.
Number two, and probably even more important, is I was incredibly diligent about the toxic load of each product, and that's why it took me so long.
That's why I spent 60-plus hours exploring every single product.
And when I say every single product, it wasn't just the products that are on there.
It was so many brands of that same product.
So I'm talking car seats, strollers, bottles, bottle washers, swaddles, sheets, baby washcloths, baby baths, all the things that you need or that make life easier when you have a baby.
But I didn't want a lot of forever chemicals and microplastics.
And if you don't know anything about silicone, the US standard of silicone doesn't even meet the silicone requirements for pig troughs in Europe.
Yeah, you heard me right.
I'll say it one more time because it's absolutely sickening.
The silicone that we use in the US that passes US standard does not even pass the standards to be used for farm animal feeding troughs in Europe.
Sick.
So I just wanted to make sure that not only was I investing in quality products, I was only getting the gear and the tools that I truly needed, but also I was reducing my family's toxic load at the same time because our little ones are so sensitive, and their little bodies are just learning to be on the outside.
And so I wanted to make sure that everything that my baby came in contact with was the lowest toxic load As possible.
So head to thebirthlounge.com
and you can find my baby registry at thebirthlounge.com/registry.
So you're just gonna type in thebirthlounge.com/registry
and you will be able to download my full list of everything that I registered for, and I put little blurbs about why I chose that product and what made me go with that exact brand because it was low tox and a good investment Okay, you talk about doing training beforehand and practicing with your dog either staying on their bed or being okay with separation.
Mm-hmm.
For anyone out there that's listening that's thinking, okay, I've never once made my dog get on a bed, on their own bed, right? They sleep in our bed, but not on their own bed, and I've never been separated from my dog.
What, how do you start this? Do you buy a bed and then start slowly every day making them stay one minute and then two minutes and then five minutes and then 10 minutes? And are we just, are we basically desensitizing them to be on this bed, and then making the time longer and longer and longer that they stay? You know, there are dif- different ways.
So I sometimes you know what your dog likes, and there are those donut beds.
Right.
They're just, like, very like your dog can just hide there, right? And, and or there are dogs, there are like den-like beds where the dog can go under the cover.
And- So sometimes if you get the right bed, you might be surprised, but you don't have to do anything.
You get the right bed and your dog is like, "Why haven't you bought it sooner?" "This is amazing."
Literally, I had people where, where they told me like, "Yeah, I just, I just bought the bed and that's it.
The dog just loves it.
He just wants to stay in all the time."
So it's n- it's not al- it's not always that it's going to be very difficult.
Sometimes what I do, I I teach the dog, if the dog is on the couch a lot, m- and many people do it unknowingly.
They often have a blanket or some sort of a cover for where the dog stays on the couch, right? They, they Like, not everyone has it, but some, some people do it that it's already this is a designated spot for the dog, and there is some sort of a blanket.
Move this blanket on the bed.
A lot of times the dog will follow, and they will just go on this bed.
Sometimes what I do is I put two I stack two beds, one on top of the other, so they're a little bit higher.
So it's not a couch, but it's a little bit higher.
And then you can even add this blanket if you want to.
And then the dog is like, "Well, that's actually not bad.
I m- I might as well stay here.
This looks fairly comfortable."
So but you can train, of course, the go to bed cue.
You c- you will have to train it.
It's something that, I actually have a video on YouTube that, you know, trains it.
So it's, there are many different I have it in the courses, I have it on the YouTube.
It's something that you can train, you can teach your dog by you can throw a treat there, and then the dog sits there or lays down, and you reward.
And then you slowly teach them to stay there one second, two seconds, five minutes, 10 minutes.
It's just a matter of training.
Now, with separating your dog it depends w- where we're at with this.
If your dog follows you and is your shadow, then I would say let's start with a situation that is the easiest for you.
And for some people it could be, okay, yes, my dog follows me to the bathroom.
Maybe we can just start closing the bathroom door, and I will You know, the dogs always know that you will come out, and maybe you will, like, give them a treat right before you go to the bathroom, or you will give the, give them a treat as you come out of the bathroom, right? So they know what to expect, and they will be waiting for this.
So just smaller separation.
Or another one is go for a walk.
Your dog is well exercised, have a peanut butter Kong or a bully stick or some sort of a chew, and give it to them let's say right outside your bedroom, and you'll have a baby gate there.
And they can see you, and it's just for five minutes.
Something that's easy enough that it's not, you don't really have to fight them because you, they can still see you They have something amazing.
It's short enough, so come outside, come, leave the bedroom before they finish the chew, and then you can slowly extend this time.
You know, the one that I like, and I think that one is doable for people, um, a lot of times it's the nursery.
Many parents, because you spend so much time working on your nursery, and it's so clean and so pretty, and then you have this Labrador Retriever who, or a Golden Retriever, or you know, like a dog that just, you just went for a walk and your dog found a puddle, or it rained, right? Or your dog sheds a lot, and you really don't want your dog there.
At least not now, because it's so beautiful, and you spent so much time decorating.
And, you know, no.
I, I had so many clients where that was where they drew the line.
That was their boundary.
So I always tell them, okay, when you are in the nursery every day for a few minutes, before you go in the nursery, your dog, you pay your dog.
You give your dog that peanut butter Kong, you give your dog maybe like a chicken, like y- you boil chicken, and you freeze it, and you put it in the Kong, and mix it with their food, with their regular food, kibble.
Or you give them a, a bone to chew.
So you always give them something, then you go in the nursery, you have a gate there.
And this way you can teach your dog to stay outside.
Because I think it's very good to have one place where that's just a baby-free zone, and that can be also for medical reasons.
So my daughter was later diagnosed with a allergy to dogs, and then, you know, once it happened, the, the doctor said, "Well, y- your dog is not allowed in the bedrooms."
Right? So this, if I didn't have this, that would have been very difficult to train.
And sometimes k- uh, kids have eczema early on and, you know, or you just, you just don't, you're just so tired y- that you don't want to sit there and, "Oh, he moved.
Okay, he's go, the, the dog is moving towards the baby."
Like, that makes me so nervous.
Oh, the dog is licking the baby.
Many dogs lick the babies, and even if the dog licks you, you may not like that your dog licks your baby, especially if they do, they sniff a lot, you know, they lick the face, and they try to get in the mouth, and they lick the ears, and then the, the, the neck.
And many parents are like, "No, I don't, I really hate this."
This is like, this is something where they, they really, you know, some people find, think, I mean, they say it's too many germs.
Some people, some people just don't like it.
So if your dog does it a lot, and because you're doing tummy time with your baby- I say, okay, let's just have one place, the nursery or a playpen, where your dog is not allowed so you don't have to pull the fur out of your kid's mouth.
That's another thing that's like a lot of times I was pulling Lola's fur out of my kid's mouth.
Got it.
I will say there is something disturbing about watching your dog lick their butt and then come right over to your- That too baby and watch- That's exactly your baby like this, right? You're like- Yes No, no, no.
Yeah.
And some dogs are really into it.
They will, yeah, they will lick their butt, and then they will lick the kid.
Yeah.
They'll be, they'll say, "You know, you wanna share this? Let's I just found this disgusting.
Um, okay.
But in terms of boundaries with- Yeah you know, like maybe don't lick the baby on the face, what other things should parents be thinking of? Something that I can tell you that we- Yeah you know, implemented in our home is that if we needed to walk away from Saggy at any point, let's say- Mm-hmm we put him down on a play mat or he was doing tummy time, in the very beginning- Mm-hmm we don't have this anymore because they have a relationship, but in the very beginning, we would make Max get on his bed, and he would have to stay.
We could put Saggy down on the floor, and then I could go throw the diaper away, wash my hands, stir the pasta, whatever I needed to do.
What other boundaries do you think are just- Yeah really good in general for parents to consider? I do like this one.
I would say with this one, it depends on the dog.
For some dogs, I would actually take the dog with me.
Oh, okay.
Like, you know, like i- it's, you know, because you have an older dog that was not showing interest in your baby, right? That he was like you knew that if your dog stays on the bed, he will stay there by the And you come back, and he will be there.
Now, if there is, like, I don't recommend leaving the baby, a newborn baby, alone with the dog.
So it is actually safer to yeah, either the ba- the dog has to go with you or the dog has to be contained somehow.
Got it.
Unless you can see them, right? It's an open space, and you can see them the whole time.
Yeah.
But yes, ge- the general rule is that newborns and dogs should not be unsupervised.
It's just safer this way.
Yeah.
You, especially, you know, the one that I, I'm And this is because of my personal experience, of course, but because I also work with other families.
And unfortunately, you know, we go to all those conferences where you hear even more of these really terrible stories.
And- Uh, to me, you know, if you have a baby that, let's say, is asleep, and they just start making those, like, squeaky sounds, that's very...
It's, crying is less triggering to dogs.
They will bark.
But it's this, like, ooh, ooh, ooh, like those, like, prey sounds.
Sounds like a prey, yeah.
Yeah.
That's exactly, that's when you don't want your dog to be alone with your newborn.
So to me, this is, like, let's not...
Let's just take the dog.
Like, let, let's just...
Or, or, you know, if I see them, yes, that's fine.
But, and then I can say, "Stay," and my dog stays on the bed.
But yeah, there are always...
Another rule is that teach your dog from the beginning that there is a baby, you, and the dog.
So I don't like when the baby and the dog are together on the play mat.
Because, you know, there will be time when the dog, when the baby rolls on the dog, or sometimes dogs will roll on the baby, and so, like, that happened to me and my dog.
She just sat on my son's face.
Like, she just, like, you know, 60 pound dog, and she, like, literally sat on his face.
Now, he couldn't cry because she was too heavy, and I was right there.
But what I realized is, like, I was...
and that was a little bit later.
But if you give them a lot of attention when they approach you and the baby, and they are more attention deprived once you have a baby.
Like, even if you try your best, they're going to get less attention.
So if they come, and let's say they look so cute together and you take a picture and you're like, "Oh, you're so...
Oh, Lola.
Oh, this is so sweet.
Oh," and you take another picture.
What your dog starts learning is like, "Oh, yeah, I get attention when I approach the babies."
So then they start coming more, and I don't want them ever to...
You know, like, what happened, like I had another mom and she said, I think it was, like, a hundred pound dog, and she just caught the dog as the dog was just rolling over, you know, on her newborn, right? Like, it's just...
Again, it's not, the dog was absolutely not aggressive.
It was just a big dog too close to the baby.
So always have a rule, one, is that you're between the dog and the baby, and the second one is that if you give them attention pay pay attention to when, when you pet them, so it's not only when they approach the baby.
Um, because that's when they might approach the baby a little bit too much.
And what can end up happening is that once your child is this grabby infant and then this uncoordinated toddler, and your dog still approaches them because they have learned that's how they get your attention- They will put themselves in unsafe situations.
So it is, it's okay, you know, it's okay to give them attention when they approach you on the other side than the baby, but you also want to teach them what you said you have with your dog, right? Like, he comes there, he lets your child pet him, and then he moves away.
That's what we want.
We want the dog that knows they don't have to stay there, because they've been so much reward- they've been rewarded for it so much.
I feel very lucky that Max did that intuitively, instinctively, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
He did that.
He, he will just come and sit by Saggy.
Yeah.
And like I say, he places his, like, hips or his butt kind of by Saggy, almost like, "Okay, I'm open to you petting me now."
And then whenever- Yeah he's done, he just gets up and walks off.
I feel really grateful.
I'm sure, you know, his breed and his temperament and his age has a lot to do with that.
So in terms of, you know, stress, what are signs that we're looking for in dogs that a lot of people maybe miss that means your dog is stressed, or that we maybe misread as, you know, they're actually stressed but we're not picking up on it? Yes.
Um, so the, the common ones is yawning when they are not tired.
It's the lip licking or nose licking.
So you will see when there is no food present.
So you will see that they do those licks, and they either lick their lips or their noses.
So sometimes it's, let's say the baby crawls up to them, right? And you might see this.
It's the, a little bit stiff and looks away.
But at the same time, you see the whale eye, like the side eye, they are watching.
Let's say the baby's here.
So you see that they're, they're not facing the baby, but they're watching the baby with the side eye.
So that's a, that's a common one.
It's called whale eye.
There is the ears go back.
So the ones I always w- since my kids were little, I taught them a few signs as well, and I think that's something that you can...
And the kids are so good at this.
So when you have your own dog, like, look at them, and you can decide, okay- When my dog is happy, the tail moves like a helicopter, or my dog is very bouncy when they're happy.
And this is something that you can start pointing out to your toddler, "Oh, my..."
you know, like, "Lola is so happy.
Her tail is moving like a helicopter," or, um, "She's so happy.
She's so bouncy like a ball."
And then you can say, "Oh, Lola's ears are back.
She needs space."
Or, "Her tail is tucked."
Right? Like ta- tail, like tucked tail or low tail, she needs space.
So the, the yawning, the lip licks, the ears back, the tail, these ones are easy for children to spot, and this is something that you can even practice right now.
And another thing that I recommend that we start practicing with children, you know, you start practicing the waving at some point, or blowing kisses, and this is something that we can start practicing when we say good night, rather than give the dog a kiss.
Dogs don't like kisses from little children, and it's, you know, you don't really want to put the face next to the child's face.
I mean, the dog's face next to the, the child's face.
So you can start practicing night night, right? Or like, let's blow a kiss.
So something where they, they are not going to be approaching a sleeping dog, which is not something that I, you know, that's something that may not end up well.
But we'll try, we will teach them that when they see a dog, they will instead wave or blow a kiss.
And they can also understand the body language, right? Like the ears back or the tail tucked or the lip licks or the nose licks.
The, you know, the whale eye, I would say that's a, that's more advanced for young children.
Yeah.
Wow, that's incredible.
Okay.
So I, I never even thought about teaching Saggy kind of like what Max is teaching.
Well, he's young.
He, well, he's young now, but- Yes I mean, I never thought about it even in the future to, to point out, like, okay, these are the signs that you look for that Max is...
I mean, other than him walking away.
And I guess I'm doing that kind of naturally, 'cause when he walks away, I say like, "Okay, Max is all done with pets."
Like- Yes.
Exactly let's play.
Yes.
Um, but I never thought to point out, like, "Wow, look at Max's ears.
They're, they're laid down."
So as Saggy grows and as we have more children, I will certainly do that.
In terms of introducing children, so I always see videos online of people bringing their babies in the carrier, and the dogs run right up to them, and it always makes me feel so nervous, but I don't have any reason to believe that that's dangerous, and I don't know any alternatives to do instead, probably 'cause I'm not a dog trainer.
So instead- Yeah of that, if that's not a good choice, what do you recommend in terms of introducing your baby to your dog? Yeah.
So you want to be in control.
If you place the car seat on the floor and you give your dog access, you're not in control.
Uh, your dog's head is inside the, the car seat, right? So it's not, this is not how you wanna do it.
I would say either introduce what I do, did when the child is in the crib, or you can hold the child, or you can have the car seat but don't put it on the floor.
You hold it, so the dog can sniff around but they cannot really get to it.
I will I had a client who didn't know what they were filming, and they literally filmed the dog attacking the child in the car seat.
It, you know, it wasn't too bad, right? Like the, the, the child was not naked.
Luckily, the dog didn't really get the child.
It was just like a small scrape.
But still, that's terrifying.
But yeah, that's...
And it was a small dog, but that's exactly what happened, right? Like y- you don't really...
They, they absolutely, they, they were like we never expected this to happen."
And I get it.
Like, I was in this situation too.
I never expected my dog to react this way.
But if I introduce my kids this way, I don't know if I would be here talking to you, right? Like, I don't know.
We would be having a very difference, I would be having a very different life maybe.
So it's not something where you want your dog to be in charge.
So just...
There, there are other things.
You, you can say hi to your dog before your dog meets your child, because a lot of times they're very excited to see you.
You've been gone for a day or two or five, right? So it depends, especially if you were gone for longer, your dog is going to be so happy to see you.
And they're sometimes jumping and they, they just want to lick you and, and maybe sometimes they smells the, you know, all the new mom smells that some dogs just need to smell you, and this way they also smell the baby.
So this is a good first introduction because this way they actually get the baby's scent, smell right away.
Um, but you want them first to meet the mom, the dad, or, you know, two moms, two dads.
So it's so they are very so they're le- they're less hyper.
And then introduce the child in however way you want to do it.
And you don't have to do it right away.
Um, sometimes, you know, I tell parents if the baby was in the car seat and now is in the crib, let the dog sniff this car seat so they can get the baby's scent right there.
What do you think about bringing home or having someone, if it's possible, if you have family nearby or a neighbor or a friend or a sibling, that can bring a receiving blanket home to your dog to introduce the smell before you come home with your baby? You can do it.
It doesn't hurt.
One exposure doesn't change much.
Okay.
So there are different smells on that blanket, right? That, that blanket was at the hospital.
They will be hospital smells.
You probably washed this blanket, so there will be And pre You know, many people buy a new detergent for the baby, so that's a new detergent.
And so it's, it's not, there It will be one of many smells.
If you think about it, like, we go out and we see people.
We go to restaurants, we go shopping, we go grocery st- shopping, and we bring new things to our house all the time, right? So dogs, they s- they can smell different smells.
It doesn't have any meaning to them.
So if you just introduce the blanket, they will be like, "Yeah, I can smell many things, but it's not really I don't know what to, what to do with this."
I had one client, when she presented the blank- I mean, not one, many, and the dogs were like, "Yeah, tug of war.
Let's play."
And then she, you know, next thing she, like, cr- she calls me crying.
She's like, "Oh my God.
What if the dogs are going to react like this to the baby? Are they going to now, like, play?" You know, like, it's I'm always like, "No, no.
Your dogs like tug-of-war.
They thought you were, you brought them a new tug toy."
Right.
Like, that's ex- They do not resemble Because that's, because that's how you presented it.
She was holding it like, like, like a rope toy, and the dogs just grabbed it.
Got it.
Okay.
And they, they, you know, they didn't know that they were supposed to smell it.
To them, it was like, "Yeah, Mom brought home a new toy.
Let's play with it."
Yeah.
I could totally see how traumatizing that is, though.
If you, in your brain, you're like, "This resembles my baby."
Yeah.
The dog's like, "Well, that resembles a toy.
I'm gonna destroy it."
And now- Yes.
So it's, it's, uh- We're totally, we're not well here.
Yes.
We're not well here.
We're not No, she, she like, she panicked, and she called me.
Or yeah, she called.
Like, it w- it was a client I worked with a lot, so she had my number.
And she called me, and I was like, "Oh no, no.
It's all good.
They like to play tug-of-war.
You brought them a new toy.
They like new toys."
Yeah.
That's it.
End of story.
Okay.
What about laboring around your dog? So for me- Yeah I had a home birth.
My dog was present throughout our labor.
We did have two plans.
We planned if he was stressed out, immediately we would remove him from the home, and our neighbors would take him.
And then from there, because he knows our neighbors and he's familiar with them, but- Yeah he couldn't really stay long term with them, we were going to have my husband's parents drive and come and get him, and then he would stay with them for a week or two after the baby while we all acclimated We didn't need to do that.
He tolerated labor just fine.
What about people who are having home births and or people who are birthing in the hospital but want to labor at home? Yes.
Any tips for that? Because obviously- Yes you just don't know how your dog is gonna handle it until you're like- Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, so it's I always tell parents have a ABCD plans because, yes, you don't really know how your dog's going to react.
And for laboring at home, sometimes it's too much for the dog, and they end up being so anxious, then you This is not really the time to comfort your dog.
This is the time to focus on you.
And so I, I think that, and that's my experience more, more Like, as, you know, if the dog is helping you in some ways, calming you down, your dog can stay.
If your dog now is spiraling out of control and that makes you anxious, this is not the time to be together.
You should always have a person as a, uh, that will take care of your dog, especially if, you know, your plan is go to the hospital, right? So this is the time to call this person.
Um, so what you did, right? Like, or, or what you had planned.
Now, for the home birth, I really think that here I probably I would say that I, I even have a module on home birth.
I worked with Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, I did it.
I covered it.
I worked with birth doulas and, you know, and then with people who, like, have the knowledge, right? Like, what, like, and have worked with families who have dogs.
So what they told me is that the dog, you know, they, the dogs can stay there as long as they don't really interrupt or, or make the mom nervous.
Or sometimes what happens, because there are people coming and going, sometimes the dogs can be protective of the mom, and this is not what you Like, you don't really want to be like, "Okay, am I, is the dog now going to attack me?" "Or can I actually, like, be with the mom?" So, and for some dogs, it's just too stressful.
Seeing mom so stressed and making noises that they have never heard, that's when they don't know what to do.
And so it's better to, again, like, maybe this is the time when someone There should be always a person that will be in charge of the dog.
And when, if the dog is fine and is helping the mom and is not interrupting anyone, the dog can stay.
But then if this is too much for the dog, the dog maybe will be taken on a walk by this person, or will go to another room, and then this person will take care of them.
So this is, you know, there, there should be always someone, a dedicated person, that will be in charge of the dog.
They told me the, the, you know, they had a situation where the paramedics had to come And the dog decided that he's not going to let the people in.
He and he, a- and this was the dog that was never really showing those that, those skills.
So everybody was very surprised, but for whatever reason, the dog was like, "Nope.
No more people today.
I'm guarding mom."
So it's, it's just not, you know, you, you never know because you have never been in this situation, and you kind of don't know how your dog might react.
Maybe your dog thinks, "Okay, this is like I really have to protect mom.
She's not well.
She's injured and I, I need to take care of that, her."
That's what comes to my mind is, you know- Yeah you have to remember that our dogs are animals even- Yes as much as we like to treat them as humans, they are animals.
They have animalistic instincts.
They are- Yes pack animals at that, right? And so if you have an animal who really feels very protective over you, even if they've never shown signs of really aggressive protection of you, when you get into a very stressful situation and they feel that, and they can smell those hormones, and they understand- Yeah that you are unsafe, it is- Yes fully valid and not unreasonable at all to think that they may kick into some sort of internal drive that is going to make them protect you.
I mean, in, on some level, that's very sweet, and it makes me be like- "Oh, my God.
They're just, like, the best."
But obviously- Yeah they need medical attention.
Or, you know, but then they also shared funny stories where you know, they had, uh, it was a home birth, and they had a pool and two labs who love to swim.
Guess who was, like, in the pool with mom? Constantly.
And then they had to remove them because they were like, "We cannot get them out of the pool."
And they were coming out and splashing, and it was just, uh, you know, it was funny until it wasn't really.
Sure.
The floor became very slippery, and everything was wet, and they were shaking off, and they were rolling in stuff, and it was just...
And then they were jumping with a big splash.
Not what you want for labor vibes at all.
No.
No.
I love that so much.
So- That's funny.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
I think my last question, this has been so informative, and I think so many people out there are like, "Wow, this makes me feel really good in having tangible steps of what I can do."
But my last question is, you know, are there any common pieces of advice out there that circulates the internet that you think are harmful or outdated where if someone comes across them, they should kind of throw up their red flags and say, "No, no, no.
I'm not going to do this"? When it comes to the preparation or introduction or- Any of it like labor.
Any of it.
I mean, there is this myth of introducing the blanket.
Um- Right what you said, which it's not really harmful, it's just...
Like, it's not something that I would count on in a sense that if I do this, it guarantees that my dog will love my child, and sometimes that's how it is perceived.
So yes, it's, you know, you can do it if it makes you feel better, absolutely do it.
But I know how stressed people were during COVID when you couldn't do it, and you know, you were at the hospital and you couldn't leave, your partner couldn't leave, and then they were, "We cannot bring the blanket home.
What's going to happen now?" I was like, "Nothing.
Everybody's going to be fine."
So this is not something that you have to do.
I think that there is this assumption, this is more for later, that somehow dogs should tolerate the climbing, the, like, treating the dog like a toy and, right? Like the, like poking and grabbing and hitting.
They, there is this assumption that dogs should tolerate it, and I don't know where this comes from, but if you think about it, like why, why should they tolerate...
I mean, I'm not saying it's abuse, but like, you know, like why...
Like, like, like if, especially if you know already that your dog, Yeah, it's, it's not, you know, it's not something that you have ever done to them.
It's not something that, like it's painful, and expecting the dog not to react and letting the child con- like, like you let the child continue do it, and then people say, "Oh, the dog bit the child."
And then there is this like out of nowhere.
Like, like, "My dog bit the child out of nowhere."
Like, this is never out of nowhere, or almost never, right? Like this is, this is something...
and sadly, when I work with private clients and they come to me after a bite and we look at the videos, and then they see it, right? And then there is just so much guilt.
But I don't want people to feel guilty.
It's something that's, it's just dog body language and, and this, and this, there is this myth that dogs should tolerate the hitting or...
I don't know where this comes from, but no, dogs don't have to tolerate any of this.
And if you already know that your dog...
Or like the, the sharing the food, that's another thing that dogs, dogs...
Like if a child approaches an eating dog, the dog should be fine with it.
Dogs are a resource guarder.
It's normal.
Like, that's, like, some dogs have a very strong instinct, some not so much.
But there isn't any should.
They don't have to do it.
This is their...
That's how they survive.
They survive when they protect their food.
If y- if your dog was a stray dog, well, the only way they survive is because they don't share food with others.
Mm-hmm.
Right? So this is something, it's a, it's a survival instinct.
So there, it, you know, it's not something that you should expect from your dog to tolerate the hitting or the grabbing, uh, or that your dog will be fine if your child approaches them while they eat.
You made me think of something that I see so often and I was really explicit about the people in my life, of taking your tiny baby and setting them on your doggy as if they're riding a horse.
And- Yeah um, you know, I think that in theory it's all fun and games, and everyone loves it, and it's just, it's cute, all the riding your d- your doggy.
But the dog is not a horse, and your dog is n- not predictable enough to know that if you set your child on them, that they're not going to turn and bite your child.
Even in a dog that has never bitten anybody or anything- Yeah in its life, you cannot set a small child on the back of a dog and expect that dog to just take that behavior especially with dogs that, you know, are trying to get used to their new life with a baby.
That's a very dangerous thing to do, and I see it all over the internet.
I see it with friends and family.
Um, and like I say, I was very explicit with my friends and family that we will not be doing this.
We cannot put Saggy on Max's back, even to play around, um, because Max just can't consent to that, and I never want to put Max in a situation where- Yeah he feels like he has to protect himself- Yes and it ends up harming Saggy, and now we're stuck in a situation making a terrible decision that never had to be made in the first place, had we just respected the boundaries of Max and his space.
Yeah, I mean, everything that you said.
Like, I, you could not have said it better.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Oh my gosh.
Ah.
This makes me- No, no, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm actually speechless how good you are at this.
Like, like, all, all your instincts are just so good, and I wish people...
Like, this is one of the best podcasts I have ever been on, and I, I have been on many, because you really nailed it with, like, what's important and why it matters.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, postpartum hormones, you're gonna make me cry.
I- It's so good.
Very in tune with Saggy as a baby.
You are.
I'm also super in tune with Max as my dog.
And you know, I- I shared that I was super, super nervous to have- Yeah a baby and, and I was really worried I was gonna hate Max, and I, I just, my love for him expanded and I love the relationship that Saggy and he has, and I feel very grateful that, you know, I did have this knowledge, and I feel really grateful that Max was very tolerant of a new baby coming into our home, and I'm really eager to see them, you know, grow together.
Saggy will grow up, and Max, well, he's an old man anyway.
So, um, thank you so, so much for this whole conversation.
Thank you for all your wisdom.
Thank you.
Um, you guys, her Instagram is amazing.
So I learned so much of this.
I mean, you're over here being like, "Oh, you did all the right things."
I think I learned a lot of it from you.
So as I was pregnant, I was learning from your Instagram, and I was implementing these things.
So I don't necessarily know that it was my instincts.
I think that, I think it's learned.
I think I learned so much from you.
So if people wanted to connect with you, learn from you, take some of your courses, follow along on Instagram, where can they do all of that? Yeah, so the Instagram handle is dogmeets_baby, and the website is dogmeetsbaby.expert.
And the two freebies that I recommend everyone downloads is the Dog Meets Baby preparation checklist and the baby sounds.
And then we have, uh, the first meeting course and the preparation course.
So one is that one focuses more on preparation and training, and the other focuses on the first meeting, what to do before, and what to do after.
I love it so, so much.
Dominika, really, thank you so much for being here.
No.
This was fantastic.
You guys- Thank you.
Yes, of course.
You know, don't ignore preparing your dog.
Don't ignore preparing your pets.
You put so much work and time and effort into preparing yourself and your nutrition and your body and your birth plan and your nursery and your home and the support systems around you.
Put a little bit of time into preparing your dog.
They deserve it.
You deserve it.
Your baby deserves it.
And if you are able to dedicate just a little bit of time in preparing your pets to help your baby transition home, I promise you, the payoff will be so good for everyone involved.
I just, I can't tell you how hard it is going to be if you have to start making hard decisions in postpartum, and it could have all been avoided in the first place by just a little bit of preparation.
All right, you guys.
My gosh, I love these episodes so much.
I love hanging out with you every single week.
I feel like every single episode's getting better and better and better.
So thank you so much for being here with me today, you guys.
I will see you in the next episode.
Be sure to follow Dog Meets Baby on social media, and you can find me at tranquilitybyhehe and at the.birth.lounge.
Until next time, head to your app store and download the Birth Lounge app for evidence-based childbirth education and data-driven postpartum support delivered straight to your phone.
Bye.
Thank you so much for tuning in today.
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I'm HeHe, and this is the Birth Lounge Podcast.