Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #304 Growing Up Digital With Amy Graham

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#304 Growing Up Digital With Amy Graham · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 2: Now, digital media and technologies do have a dual power
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  Speaker 2: and they offer benefits and drawbacks. So it isn't about
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  Speaker 2: saying that screams are bad. They definitely have a place
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  Speaker 2: in our lives and certainly our children's lives.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson and the author of
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  Speaker 3: all those books about raising happy families. Hopefully your family
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  Speaker 3: is happy. I'm here with Kylie, my wife and co host,
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  Speaker 3: and Monto our six kids. If there's anything that's going
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  Speaker 3: to be causing contention in most Australian homes, in fact
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  Speaker 3: most homes around the world, it's digital stuff. And I'm
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  Speaker 3: really excited to welcome back to the podcast a researcher
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  Speaker 3: who not only can tell us about the research, but
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  Speaker 3: does the research herself. Doctor Amy Graham is a research
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  Speaker 3: fellow for the Gonsky Institute for Education at the University
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  Speaker 3: of New South Wales. Last year, around about this time,
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  Speaker 3: Phase one of the Growing Up Digital Australia Report was completed,
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  Speaker 3: with about two thousand school teachers and principles, and we
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  Speaker 3: had a conversation about that on episode one hundred and thirteen.
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  Speaker 3: You can go back and listen. We'll link to that
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  Speaker 3: in the show notes, looking at teachers experiences with students'
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  Speaker 3: tech use at school and the way technology use was
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  Speaker 3: having an impact on student's capacity to learn. Well, Amy
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  Speaker 3: joins us again to talk about Phase two of the
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  Speaker 3: Growing Up Digital Australia Report. Amy, it's so good to
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  Speaker 3: have you back on the podcast.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you for inviting me back.
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  Speaker 3: This time we're not talking about teachers experiences, we're talking
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  Speaker 3: about what's happening in the home. You've surveyed something like
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  Speaker 3: twenty five hundred parents and caregivers to ask them what
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  Speaker 3: their experiences are when it comes to digital technology use.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So this time we had this great snapshot and
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  Speaker 2: by accident, did it in the COVID time. So we
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  Speaker 2: had this great snapshot into Australian homes and I guess
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  Speaker 2: the struggles that parents and grandparents are having with managing
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  Speaker 2: this digital mindfield of young people. So we collected data
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  Speaker 2: from two and a half thousand parents and grandparents which
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  Speaker 2: represented over five thousand kids. So it was a really
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  Speaker 2: nice neat snapshot into Australian homes.
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  Speaker 3: Amy, we kind of found out something that most parents
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  Speaker 3: don't really want to own up to, but it's a reality,
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  Speaker 3: and your data showed that parents are worried about this.
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  Speaker 3: Parents are owning up to the fact that digital devices
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  Speaker 3: have a negative impact in their own lives.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's always necessary to start by admitting
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  Speaker 2: that we as adults struggle with those very same challenges
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  Speaker 2: caused by digital media and technology that our children are.
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  Speaker 4: So parent distraction on.
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  Speaker 2: Their smartphones and other devices is becoming increasingly common and
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  Speaker 2: in our research, over ninety percent of Australian parents felt
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  Speaker 2: that they were negatively distracted, and three and four felt
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  Speaker 2: that this was actually growing. So in order to be
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  Speaker 2: able to understand the power of these gadgets and how
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  Speaker 2: to regulate their own behaviors, I think parents have to
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  Speaker 2: change first, because what we know from effective parenting and
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  Speaker 2: impactful teaching is that the power of an example is
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  Speaker 2: often the most effective way to affect change, and we
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  Speaker 2: saw that. You know, we had over seventy percent of
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  Speaker 2: parents recognizing that they themselves need to have the right
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  Speaker 2: habits to be able to influence their children.
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  Speaker 3: So ninety percent is a really big number of parents
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  Speaker 3: who were saying, yeah, it probably is having a negative impact,
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  Speaker 3: and like you said, over seventy percent thinking something needs
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  Speaker 3: to be done about it.
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  Speaker 4: Have you got kids, yes, I have three.
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  Speaker 3: And are you part of that seventy plus percent that
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  Speaker 3: needs to do something about your digital device usage? I
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  Speaker 3: when you're researching it, But has it permeated into your
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  Speaker 3: life as well?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean I think we all have, particularly during
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  Speaker 2: the COVID time. You know, we all have this different
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  Speaker 2: view of screens. They allowed us to do our work,
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  Speaker 2: they allowed our kids to engage in learning, they kept
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  Speaker 2: us in touch with family and friends.
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  Speaker 4: But I think I'm.
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  Speaker 2: Probably more conscious of needing to show my kids explicitly
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  Speaker 2: and intentionally how to switch off.
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  Speaker 4: So I love my work. My kids know that.
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  Speaker 2: But I can put it down at a meal time,
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  Speaker 2: and I can put it down when things are important
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  Speaker 2: to them. So I think, you know, I think that's
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  Speaker 2: probably something that is missing in some homes that really
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  Speaker 2: need need to be really explicit with children about how
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  Speaker 2: to switch off.
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  Speaker 4: You're very good.
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  Speaker 3: I'm impressed.
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  Speaker 5: So in the survey, parents are really concerned about digital
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  Speaker 5: distractions for kids.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Kylie. I think you know we're seeing a
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  Speaker 2: younger starting age. So children as young as four are
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  Speaker 2: owning a screen based device that belongs to them, and
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  Speaker 2: the average in homes is over three devices per child, so.
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  Speaker 4: It's starting younger.
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  Speaker 2: Then they're using them a lot and often at the
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  Speaker 2: displacement of other activities. So parents are actually feeling that
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  Speaker 2: their child can't spend a day without digital technology. The
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  Speaker 2: first thing that they do when they're bored is to
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  Speaker 2: pick up their phone, and they're concerned that it displaces
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  Speaker 2: their opportunity to do other things like being physically active
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  Speaker 2: or playing outside, or being creative, or spending time with others.
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  Speaker 4: And then the distraction.
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  Speaker 2: Over four and five, parents felt that their child's negatively
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  Speaker 2: distracted and that they find it harder to control their
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  Speaker 2: child's digital habits since they got that device for them.
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  Speaker 2: Then we look at impact, and parents are really concerned
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  Speaker 2: that over use of digital media is negatively impacting on
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  Speaker 2: children's physical activity and intention span and interest in playing.
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  Speaker 2: We've got impacts on mental health. You know, thirty seven
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  Speaker 2: percent of parents felt that their child was anxious or
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  Speaker 2: depressed because of time online or because they tried to
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  Speaker 2: take the phone away. And I think that age matters here,
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  Speaker 2: and I think that we need to look at some
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  Speaker 2: of the risks and consequences that we see often don't
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  Speaker 2: appear to much later in childhood, that the scene set
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  Speaker 2: quite early.
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  Speaker 5: So parents are really stressed around control. It's it's a
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  Speaker 5: really big thing as we talk about, you know, digital distractions.
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  Speaker 5: Is it actually doing to our kids the things that
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  Speaker 5: parents are most concerned about?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Or is it just what the survey showed parents are
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  Speaker 3: worrying about.
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  Speaker 2: This is parent concerns. So this was a parent survey
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  Speaker 2: and it was about their observations of their child and
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  Speaker 2: also their own habits themselves.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it seems like screen time and screen issues are
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  Speaker 3: really high on the agenda and on the concern list
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  Speaker 3: for parents. We're going to come back in just a
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  Speaker 3: second and ask doctor Amy Graham, a research fellow at
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  Speaker 3: the Gonski Institute for Education at the University of New
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  Speaker 3: South Wales and one of the lead researchers on the
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  Speaker 3: Growing Up Digital Australia Report, what we know about kids
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  Speaker 3: using devices after bedtime and what's happening in terms of
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  Speaker 3: the way that it impacts on their school experience.
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  Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 6: Are screens creating tension at home. Tweens, Teens and Screens
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  Speaker 6: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.
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  Speaker 6: Bye today at happy families dot com dot au slash shop.
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  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers. Now we're talking to
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  Speaker 3: Amy Graham from the Gonsky Institute for Education at the
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  Speaker 3: University of New South Wales.
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  Speaker 5: Amy, you mentioned that screen issues change based on the
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  Speaker 5: age of our kids.
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  Speaker 2: I think we have to realize that some of the
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  Speaker 2: things that we see later in childhood often the trajectory
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  Speaker 2: set a lot earlier than that, So we have an
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to intervene early and set limits. So we know
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  Speaker 2: from the best neuroscience in the world that early childhood
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  Speaker 2: gives this opportunity for brains to learn twice as fast,
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  Speaker 2: and that means that they're the content that children have,
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  Speaker 2: you know, two to five years old. The content they're
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  Speaker 2: receiving is really important. What they're accessing really matters, but
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  Speaker 2: also the messages that they're receiving around digital usage at
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  Speaker 2: this time and how to get a sense of balance
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  Speaker 2: and wellness is penetrating a lot more easily than later
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  Speaker 2: in life. So if we're introducing screens as a digital
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  Speaker 2: babysitter to let parents have a meal in peace or
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  Speaker 2: get some time out, that sticks, that's what will be absorbed.
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  Speaker 2: They're at primary school age, we're seeing children of five
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  Speaker 2: to twelve years old. Schools are coming in and trying
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  Speaker 2: to flip the script a bit and use these screens
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  Speaker 2: for really wonderful learning purposes and accessing a whole new
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  Speaker 2: world and experiences that otherwise kids might not be able to.
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  Speaker 2: But the limits we're putting on them at this stage
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  Speaker 2: are quite arbitrary and they're meaningless to kids, so they're
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  Speaker 2: not getting they're getting really mixed messages at this age.
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  Speaker 2: They know that they can use screens for learning, they
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  Speaker 2: don't really have any buy into the strategies that we're
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  Speaker 2: putting on them to regulate them, and they know that
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  Speaker 2: they have to be more creative to hide it. By
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  Speaker 2: this age, so we heard stories about kids that were,
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  Speaker 2: you know, taking photos of their homework and then flipping
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  Speaker 2: the screen to be able to trick their teachers, putting
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  Speaker 2: in dummy phones to avoid the school band, and parents
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  Speaker 2: struggling to know when their kids are actually doing homework
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  Speaker 2: because it's all on a screen now, so.
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  Speaker 4: I think that they get a little bit better at
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  Speaker 4: hiding it.
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  Speaker 2: Parents are buying the first phone so they can keep
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  Speaker 2: in touch with their child on public transporter when they're
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  Speaker 2: at school. Parents at this age are also a bit
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  Speaker 2: prone to not wanting to say no, not wanting their
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  Speaker 2: kids to miss out. So there are a whole range
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  Speaker 2: of factors that go into that primary school age, and
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  Speaker 2: I guess the strategies you need to use at different stages.
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  Speaker 2: Then finally, by adolescents, the trajectory is pretty well set
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  Speaker 2: and this is often where the cracks start to appear.
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  Speaker 2: So we see sometimes in you know, entire groups of
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  Speaker 2: young people on their phones and they take them everywhere,
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  Speaker 2: the habits formed, the distractions there, and they have very
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  Speaker 2: little respite. They're sleeping with them. We're seeing declining mental
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  Speaker 2: health and social relationships fracturing at that stage, more fragile
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  Speaker 2: self esteem and unwillingness to do other activities, and often
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  Speaker 2: this is where parents become really concerned. But it's a
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  Speaker 2: little bit too late. We need to get in much
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  Speaker 2: earlier and teach those skills of self regulation and monitoring
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  Speaker 2: at a younger age.
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  Speaker 3: Amy something that the report found, and it's kind of
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  Speaker 3: crushing to say it. I don't want to say it,
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  Speaker 3: but the report showed that there are issues around financial
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  Speaker 3: and socio economic circumstances. Specifically, children who come from families
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  Speaker 3: where there is a lower income are more likely to
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  Speaker 3: have parents who have fewer concerns about digital devices and
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  Speaker 3: fewer rules, and are therefore more likely to be dealing
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  Speaker 3: with some more of the challenges that we've described.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and I am really cautious in conveying these findings
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  Speaker 2: with sensitivity, because I know that there are some very
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  Speaker 2: real challenges facing some families, and the last thing I
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  Speaker 2: would want to induce is any feeling of guilt or
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  Speaker 2: shame around what their kids are doing on gadgets when
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  Speaker 2: they're trying to put food on the table. But the
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  Speaker 2: data did show that fewer parents in living in poverty
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  Speaker 2: or of low income have the tools that they need
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  Speaker 2: to set and consistently reinforce effective limits. So these kids
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  Speaker 2: are sleeping with their phones, more, they are struggling educationally.
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  Speaker 2: They are more likely to be anxious or depressed because
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  Speaker 2: of being online or because they weren't allowed to use
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  Speaker 2: their devices. And then this is exacerbated by those parents
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  Speaker 2: that didn't see the need to be a positive role
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  Speaker 2: model as much and implement those effective regulation strategies. They
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  Speaker 2: also felt that it was they had less of an influence,
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  Speaker 2: so that when we looked at family income, that actually
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  Speaker 2: decreased linearly, suggesting that those more well resourced parents actually
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  Speaker 2: do have a greater awareness of their position as a
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  Speaker 2: role model. And I think for a long time we've
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  Speaker 2: thought of the digital divide as the difference between the
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  Speaker 2: have and have not in terms of access, but that's
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  Speaker 2: actually being overcome and parents who provided their child with
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  Speaker 2: a mobile phone was actually highest in the lowest income bracket.
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  Speaker 2: So the access issue isn't the greatest digital divide. It's
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  Speaker 2: actually the teaching of the strategies and habits. And I
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  Speaker 2: think that we can't just accept this as reality. We
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  Speaker 2: need to try and help these families, especially in trying
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  Speaker 2: to reconceptualize screens less as a digital babysitter, less as
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  Speaker 2: a way to pass the time, and more as a
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  Speaker 2: learning tool and something to be used with caution and
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  Speaker 2: to be used with regulation.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, this has been a really good conversation. I'm
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  Speaker 5: wondering if you could tell us what would be your
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  Speaker 5: take home message from the Growing Up Digital Australia Report.
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  Speaker 2: I think my key take home message would be that
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  Speaker 2: digital media and technologies do have a dual power and
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: they offer benefits and drawbacks. So it isn't about saying
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: that screens are bad. They definitely have a place in
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: our lives, insertainly our children's lives. But I think the
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: missing piece of the puzzle is this need to teach
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  Speaker 2: self regulation and we need to be much more explicit
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  Speaker 2: in teaching about the risks and negative impacts when these
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  Speaker 2: are overused or used in problematic or habit forming ways.
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  Speaker 2: We do this when we teach about smoking the need
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  Speaker 2: to wear a seat belt, and we teach them that
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  Speaker 2: they're un natural and preventable consequences. And I think that
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  Speaker 2: we need to teach our children how to live their
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  Speaker 2: life in ways that feel good and the importance of
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  Speaker 2: getting things like sleep and getting outside and having a
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  Speaker 2: balance in each day. But we can't do that by
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  Speaker 2: a one size fits all solution, So I think much
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  Speaker 2: broader conversation. Start a conversation with your kids, get into
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  Speaker 2: their world, and keep in mind that what's harmful for
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  Speaker 2: some is helpful for others.
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  Speaker 4: So not all children will be impacted in the.
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  Speaker 2: Same ways, but we really do need as parents to
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  Speaker 2: own responsibility, say no sometimes and set some limits.
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's just so much for parents to worry about,
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  Speaker 3: and the Growing Up Digital Australia Report, while it's got
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  Speaker 3: some good news and definitely some signs of awareness, also
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  Speaker 3: some things to really challenge us and provoke us to
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  Speaker 3: be better. Doctor Amy Grant, from the Gonsky Institute for
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  Speaker 3: Education at the University of New South Wales, thanks for
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  Speaker 3: your time today.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for inviting me back.
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  Speaker 3: Really really important conversation. You can hear our first conversation
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  Speaker 3: with Amy on episode one hundred and thirteen, and of
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  Speaker 3: course you've just heard the one that we've had now
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: about how parents are struggling with the screen and digital
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  Speaker 3: issues that so many device bring with them. We really
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: hope that you've enjoyed the podcast, as produced by Justin
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: If you'd like more info about how to make your
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: family happier, as specifically how you can manage the screen
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: issues in your home, you might want to check out
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: the Happy Families membership. We've got a couple of great
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: webinars in there that are yours as part of the membership,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: all about managing and defining the best ways to deal
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  Speaker 3: with devices at home. You can get all the information
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: about the Happy Families membership at happy families dot com
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: dot au