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Books4Guys - Max Branstetter · Books4Guys

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, crazy, but man, Max now officially live after about 30 minute delay for one reason or another, all on my part.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate your flexibility.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And man, we're already having good conversation of sports.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: You saw my Arkansas hat, you know, at the time of this recording.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the Sweet 16.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see, we'll see what happens.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you're an Indiana guy.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: You guys got a football national championship that I think still blows every sports fan's mind on how that happened.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: But awesome to have you on, man.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks so much, Chris.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can pivot and talk the IU football championship as much for this entire time if you want.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: But no, in the meantime, no, pulling for you guys in the Sweet 16.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, especially at this this time of year, it's extra fun time of the sports calendar.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But really flattered and honored uh you thought of me for this show.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So really excited to dive into what whatever we get into here.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, man.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I mean, you I I I came across you on LinkedIn and noticed your work and podcasting and just how much you've done in helping so many other people launch their podcast or get their podcast to certain levels, you know, and you kind of talk about people are busy, they don't know how to do it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you you handle a lot of that work for them.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, man, someone needs to spotlight Max and all his cool work that he's been doing, you know, behind the scenes.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so, man, just to kick it off, I I would just like to know more about your background and how you discovered podcast and then how you progressed into making that that work like an actual business for you and all that you've done since then.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually invented the first podcast.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was around, no, I'm just kidding.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I it's been a really, really organic journey.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and thanks again for having me on and and spotlighting me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's cool.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of funny in the when you're in the producer role, it's you're you're often a lot of times behind the scenes.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as you know, like I host a podcast where I interview entrepreneurs as well.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like I've very much enjoyed always the hosting and the production side.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's multiple sides of it, which are both crazy time consuming but crazy fulfilling, uh, as you've seen yourself in in the past few years.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why I say it's such an organic journey is, you know, I when I went to IU, you know, I grew up in an entrepreneurial family.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: My parents started a business called HippoDirect the year I was born.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they focus on mailing lists and email lists and kind of more of that, now considered a traditional side of marketing.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think growing up in an entrepreneurial family or with entrepreneurial parents, you learn a lot about uh the types of careers you can have and the value of entrepreneurship or starting something that you're passionate about, and also that it's not just one, you know, corporate path you have to go.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I started off in the corporate world and I learned a ton there in brand management.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot that I there that I enjoyed, but then a lot that I didn't enjoy about that structure.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of felt like personally I was living somebody else's life because I was there for a few years and I was like, I like I need to do something I'm more passionate about, I'm more entrepreneurial, that is more entrepreneurial.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Did that for a year a few years, was working in the laundry space, like the brands like Snuggle Bear and Whisk and some of those brands.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I moved to the city, New York City.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I joined my family business for a few years, was working remote well before everybody else started working remote.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time was, you know, focused on building out their website, started a digital marketing service for them, kind of doing some some more of the modern things and helping grow the business and connect with entrepreneurs that way.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it was about a year into that that we were thinking of ways to market the business.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, we just kept hearing about podcasting.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I had started listening to podcasts at the time, like this just feels like a really good fit, like something that we could do.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be a great way to market the business, but also a great way to, you know, as you know, network and connect with people and learn from others.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And who knows what it'll turn into.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So started then, which was the wild business growth podcast.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's big change, wild business growth.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And started that in August 2018.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Still to this day, you know, we're up to over 350 episodes now.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Interview a new entrepreneur, takes a, what did I say, wild idea, turns that to wild growth, you know, a real business.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always fascinated by that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: But on the the behind the scenes, like the production side of that, pretty soon after launching that podcast, I had people reach out like, wow, that's so cool.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: You launched a podcast.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you help me start one?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or uh, or I have a podcast, I'm sick and tired of editing it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: It takes forever, like I'm falling asleep here.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you take that off my plate?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like the first like aha or a little light light bulb moment of uh this could be a way to help people.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a small, you know, podcast production service.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And did that for the family business for a little bit.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then in summer of 2020, when all the craziness was going on, uh, it just made too much sense to spin it out as like a separate company.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was kind of jammed into the family business.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: There was some overlap, but it just made sense to be more fully like this is a separate, fully, you know, full, fully focused on podcast production.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So started Max Podcasting and been doing that ever since.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And somewhere along the way, that became full time.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I still love the hosting journey to this day, but somehow it's even more fulfilling to produce and help help busy, busy entrepreneurs and small business owners launch that podcast that they've been seeking to do, but for whatever reason, just haven't been able to yet.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's awesome.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So like it really truly did happen organically to where the business kind of came to you, and you were like, okay, I guess like let me take on a client, let me help somebody.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, someone else wants help.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Man, like this is actually gonna this is gonna take a lot of time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this should just be my business.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll say that, you know, there weren't too many clients in the early days of that.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was like something, and and I was learning a ton.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I had I had it's not like I studied podcasts in college or editing or anything like that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was all self-taught from that regard.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and a lot of you know, helpful resources from like Pat Flynn and people like that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: But once I like you hear this, but I truly experienced this.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like once you kind of go out on your own, whether it's starting your business or something for your personal brand, once people know what you specialize in and what to go to you for or what to refer people to you for, that's when the referrals and word of mouth, like that's when that actually started coming in.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I started to get like a decent amount more clients pretty quickly once we launched Max Podcasting.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, you know, to this day, my client base is still largely driven by customer, you know, client referrals.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And now there's sometimes referrals from clients, sometimes referrals from my podcast guests.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a really amazing thing how that can kind of snowball and build from there.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: With and you were talking about like people obviously like not having time to edit, produce, and all of that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had the same experience with books for guys, you know, basically learning everything from the ground up and how much time it can take.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you you're trying to tweak things here and there.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do you I guess like your client load, you have to give like a specific number, but like how many clients can you work with at once that you can realistically uh I guess take care of just because of all of the time?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: It I don't think people realize like how time consuming it really is, like from an editing and producing standpoint.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some I guess like, and I've never talked to someone in your space who does this.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I only know how much time it takes me personally.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, how many clients can you balance at once and do it like and continue to do a great job, you know, for I it's a funny business because like we exist because I experience firsthand how time consuming it is to create podcasts.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh one of one of my very, very early guests on wild business growth, his name is Tom Cassano.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he used to be focused in the SEO world, he's done a bunch of different things.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: When I was he interviewed me for his show, I interviewed him for my show early on, and he was asking how the podcasts are going on all that, and I was like talking about how time consuming it was.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Well, have you ever considered hiring an editor, like offloading the editing to somebody else?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I've thought about it.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't put too much thought to it about it yet.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Well, I mean, you could think how many hours a week you could save by doing that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, that's awesome.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then somehow I totally flipped that advice on its head because I became the editor.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh, you know what?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: This if this is a good way to help people, like, why can't I do that for other people?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And why can't I take that off other people's plates and free up more time for whatever they want to do?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Really funny business and in that regard, because you know very well how much time it creates to produce one podcast.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I would say, so at the time of this recording, typically in recent months, clients have been anywhere, it's typically like 12 to 15 different podcasts uh a month that we're working on.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, some of those are weekly, some of those are twice a week, some of those are every other week, some are once a month, and then some do like seasons.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll be on for a few months and then they'll be off for a few months, things like that.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So right now it's like a it's a great workload to a, you know, I'm very busy.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask my wife, definitely very busy, but it's not to the point where I'm like how it was in the early days, where I was doing everything myself, where I was staying up late all the time, things like that.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think what's what's been a huge, huge help and a huge way the business has grown over the years is to it takes so long, like you realize it, but it takes so long to actually delegate and offload stuff.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you nobody can do everything themselves.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I've heard that from every single guest I've interviewed too.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out my guy Jeff, because Lofty is my editing partner.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's been a huge help with everything.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: He specializes in video too.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're partnering with another editor, Mike, who's a big help, Bammy.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like we got a few different editors that we're working with.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh editing obviously being the most time-consuming part of the process.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they are a huge help and been able to sustain as well as scale the business.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then um a couple other, you know, shout out Jeremy and Athena doing uh working wonders on blogs and transcripts, some of the marketing elements as well.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I'm the only full-time employee if you view it that way, but there's a whole team here at Max Podcasting that's um, you know, tackling podcasts and and different aspects of podcasts in different ways.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's been a huge help in growing the thing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool for you to say that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Cause yeah, I think it's so hard for entrepreneurs or people to offload anything because you just want to be so hands-on and you want to know it's done the way you want it done in the right way.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: You worry if does an episode come out on time?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are they gonna edit it the right way?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's so much you're kind of worried about, but it's obviously you've done a good job of minimizing that worry and doing a good job for so many clients because the referrals keep coming.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's cool to know that even you, you're like, Yeah, I have to figure out a way to, you know, keep my bandwidth at a certain level.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do everything.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so you've got some people that help you do that so you can continue good work, taking on new clients and and doing a good job.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was just curious.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of around the number I was thinking because I was in my head trying to do math of like how much time I spend, and if I were to do it, like how how many times can I replicate it for a week and not like lose my mind?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was thinking, like, I don't know, maybe eight for me, but you know, you're doing 10 to 15.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that uh that's awesome.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, well, by no means do I still have my mind.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was lost a long time ago.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, something that's really cool about working in the podcasting space, though, is that I found that I really, really appreciate variety in terms of like the podcasts I'm working on.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like our clients are anywhere from like, you know, there's a sailing magazine to, you know, a father-son podcast that's more about family and school stuff to uh, you know, women's health podcasts.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I learned something new in every single episode that I'm working on or that anybody on our team is working on.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I joke that like I'm an asset to any trivia team because I have some I already had lots of random knowledge.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: We used to say my dad was the king of random knowledge, uh, still is.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I now am like, there's so many things of so many different genres of aspects.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know a ton about like the Stark Law, like healthcare law now, because my client Bob, you know, long time podcast on a very specific part of healthcare law, something I had never heard of before.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's done, you know, over 200 episodes.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really fun the things you learn about things that you had never even thought of before.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's cool.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I you're you're hitting on a couple points because you were talking about like even your podcast, you know, how you were using it to market your the business, the family business, and talk with people.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I it kind of shocks me now that you know I've had mine for a decent amount of time now, just the I'm surprised more companies don't implement podcasting into their marketing strategy.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was sitting here thinking, like in my normal job, if I were to reach out to a president of a company or or some of the people that I've had on the podcast, if I approached them from that way, they they they would ignore me.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: But when I ask them if they want to be on my podcast and I want to spotlight them, it's like a quick and easy yes.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's no-brainer.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're like the amount the people I've been able to meet from doing a podcast, I'm just like, and it's just and there's just like you said, there's more and more referrals, like, hey, this was great.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I appreciate it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let me send you someone else.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, holy cow, you know this person?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, thank you so much for the intro.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: But and I, but I think about that, I'm like more, I'm surprised more and more companies don't have a specific, like dedicated podcast section to their marketing because it just seems like I don't know, just a no-brainer in being able to put content out there and and have guests on, and maybe you can get clients that way or spotlight your partners.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's so many different ways you could go about it in a positive benefit to your business.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I it feels like there's still so much growth room for the podcasting space, even though there's a lot, but there just seems to be so much more opportunity still out there.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is, and it's podcasting has grown a ton since the early days, but think of podcasting compared to like writing books or like blogs or TV shows, radio shows, anything like that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're still in such the early days of podcasting.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing how much it's changed and grown already.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there, you know, there you I could have a call with somebody one week and they're very familiar with podcasting.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: They listen to many podcasts a week, and then I could have a call with somebody the next uh, you know, in that same week and they're like, I don't really know what a podcast is, but I've heard it's good.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do for my best.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a very wide range of how familiar people are with podcasts.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think the latest numbers I saw, it's like now it's over, I want to say it's like over 50% of adults in the US listen to podcasts, like at least once a month or at least once a week, something like that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like that's gone way up to what it used to be.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of the benefits, absolutely, I'm right there with you.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now we can reveal I'm paying you a lot to say that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just kidding.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like that's one of my favorite things about podcasting, is like there's not one reason to do it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's not, you know, like there, there's plenty of potential reasons to do it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it really depends.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I talk to new podcasting clients on why they're starting this in the first place, and like we help them, you know, launch it from scratch.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I always start with the goals.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the things you want to achieve with it?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: For some people, oh, it's for pure networking, like you're talking about.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: For some people, it's for you know, uh more about their personal brand or brand awareness from that regard.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite examples, my clients, uh, Ann and April of Forthright People, Forthright Business, they have a podcast called Strategic Council.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: They talk, you know, they have like a brand and personal brand consultancy, branding consultancy, and they talk about how their podcast, which they've done for you know over 400 episodes now, they view that as a tiebreaker when they're talking to potential clients.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if if it's, you know, somebody's choosing between them and somebody else to work with them or to coach them, they have, you know, over 400, nearly 500 episodes now of where people can learn their personality, they can experience what it's like to partner with them, they can hear their expertise.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Also, Ann and April can, you know, if there's any specific topic that person or team is interested in, they can send specific examples from episodes they've done before.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one of my favorite examples.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's more of kind of like from the B2B lens.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point on networking, oh my God, I've never seen a tool like networking.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think you find an old tweet from me, like in late 2018, after I started wild business growth, about how podcasting is the most powerful networking tool I've ever seen.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about connecting with people in the business world that otherwise wouldn't give you the light of day.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I am always pinching myself because now, you know, over wild business growth, there's some been some big, big, big entrepreneurs that are like have been on the show that I'm like, what business do I have talking to them?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's very, it's very amazing that they willingly, you know, were generous with their time.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Even, you know, I've done some sports crossovers too.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm obviously I'm a big IU fan for pro sports.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm from Cleveland, so I'm a huge Cleveland Everything fan.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Forever love that, you know, Cavs 2016 championship team.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And Channing Fry from that team, and also a host of Road Tripp, and which was the first podcast I ever listened to.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's been on my show.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like that still blows my mind.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody I look up to, one of my favorite players ever, like came on my show and I interviewed him.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we talked about the championship sum, but like none of that would be possible without podcasting.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, there's tons of benefits in the business world too.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a lot to be excited about.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just in here smiling because I'm I'm in the same way of you.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think people that I want to get to and have on my podcast, and I know like that's my podcast is the only way I'm probably ever gonna have a chance to talk with them.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you write the an incredible well-written letter with a beautiful stamp on it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's crazy though.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you kind of led to my next question, and I think you may have answered it, but I was gonna ask you if you remember the very first podcast you ever listened to or and what that was, and just um because you've been doing this a long time, and I I as I was getting ready today to talk with you, I was thinking back to the first time I was introduced to podcasts, and now I listen to podcasts more than I listen to music.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm curious to know what's the very first podcast that you remember listening to.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and on the I'm curious on your standpoint, what's like the first one or early ones that got you into podcast listening?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember like I had a drive home.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was living in Atlanta at the time, and I was going back to Arkansas, and someone in my office uh shout out Mariah.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, she listened to a lot of podcasts, and I was like, hey, I've got like a nine-hour drive.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've you keep talking about like podcasts would be great to listen to if I don't want to listen to music the whole time.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, what do you recommend?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the Up and Vanished podcast for what was it, Payne Lindsay or uh, I I met him at a podcast movement one year.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he uh with Tenderfoot.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're coming out with Yeah, Tenderfoot, that's right.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're I forgot what's the name of their most recent one?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever, whatever the most recent one they did, kind of a limited series from Tenderfoot, uh, won like all these awards at this podcast show recently.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But they're they're incredibly creative, yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I've listened to all of them, and that's the first one I listened to, and I remember like my whole drive home, it went by so much faster, and I was like, this was awesome.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's when I was introduced to podcast.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great example.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you're right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I I stole your the words out of your mouth, I guess, because I uh road tripping, that one that Channing Fry.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So so at the start, it was Richard Jefferson, Channing Fry, Allie Clifton, who was the Cavs analyst, sideline reporter.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Those three started it.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had you know, there was so much fun stuff that that Cavs 2016 and into the next year, like those teams were doing.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um Richard Jefferson before the podcast started doing this thing where um uh over Snapchat is Snapchat got really popular at the time.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there was some, I want to say it was a Tommy Bahama print ad and some magazine, and the model looked just like Kevin Love.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So Richard Jefferson, as opposed to just being like, oh, that's funny, turns this into like a memeable character called Lil Kev.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And through all the, you know, those Cavs runs, he'd be flying with this magazine and this little print print ad on the magazine and Lil Kev.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like after big wins, it would be like little Kev's partying, stuff like that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so Richard Jefferson obviously has like a propensity to be a content creator and start things and be really innovative in this space.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So he did that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Then he was like the leading force behind Road Trippin', which it turns out looking back now, like, because now he's like, you know, one of the big play-by-play announcers, like an analysts on TV too.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And road tripping kind of was a way for him to get more into that world and get more comfortable with communications as well.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Him, Channing, and Allie started it, and I think I heard about it from some friends.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I still didn't really know what podcasts were.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: This was early 2017.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Distinctly remember um it started making headlines because Kyrie Irving was on and he has some crazy theories always in Kyrie on the calves at the time.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was entertaining to listen to in many ways.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I distinctly remember one of those early episodes, you know, rest in peace now, but uh Bill Walton.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Richard, Richard and Channing are really tight with Luke Walton, and his dad, a legendary Bill Walton, uh came on the podcast once.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I was living in Connecticut at the time.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was shoveling the yard ahead with you know, this house with a bunch of guys.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like your driving story.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it made the shoveling go that much quicker.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of being like this miserable task out there shoveling, you're cold, you're sore.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I actually probably hurt my back that day.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was that day.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I am just laughing my ass off at the things coming out of Bill Walton's mouth.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is incredible.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: What, like, what is this?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of medium is this?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard people hear people so unhinged and uncensored.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And Richard and Channing, for example, it's like whenever you have post-game interviews on TV, you have to be very polished in what you say, things like that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to get fined.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: You hear them in this format, and it, they're just normal people, they're talking like normal people do.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like you're there in the hotel room with them or in the locker room with them.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's still one of my favorite podcasts to this day.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, that was the big, you know, aha moment in the in the podcasting world of like, wow, it it's a really unique medium, a really cool way to be on the fly of the wall for any sort of conversation you want.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I eventually got into business and largely because of you know Gary V.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Audio experience and then uh the Tim Ferriss show.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Tim Ferriss is still one of my favorites today.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was listening to his episode earlier, actually.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Of wow, like it's such a cool way to connect with people in the business space and hear about these stories that I loved ever since going back to college of people having a crazy idea and then having the courage and the uh curiosity to turn that crazy idea into like a crazy business, and then how do they grow that from there?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, I can only imagine the people you've been able to talk to with your podcast on on just their journey.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm thinking now, like, yeah, I have podcasts for every interest of mine.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have my sports ones that I listen to.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You get busting with the boys, you know, my own.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a huge shout out, Barstall.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a huge uh part of my take fan.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Pardon my take.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you gotta have something really, really fun to listen to that gets you to listen three days a week for you know two to three hours, but they do it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I started listening to Joe Rogan probably during 2020, during COVID.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I just had more time, so I started picking up on that and became a fan of his.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I mentioned my first million, that's probably like the second podcast I got super into.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they still Sean and Sam still do it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to theirs every week just from like an entrepreneurship, and I love hearing stories of you know how people are making it and ideas and everything.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they've gotten like it's pretty cool when you've listened for so long that you see like their level of guest from like their first episodes, and then now they can pretty pretty much get whoever they want.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just pretty cool that you're kind of a part of their journey and their lives.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of get to know these people, even if you haven't met them, but you're following them for so long.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh that's another thing I find interesting with podcasts.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, I've been listening to this for like six years now.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, you know, we've been talking a lot of college troops.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know the reporter, uh John Rothstein?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: He does a lot of stuff for college.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so and he's good friends with part of my take guys, so he comes on to me then anyway.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Rothstein is is infamous for having a nickname for for anybody.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I forget what his nickname for Calapari is, but he's got you know just like one line things that you could put on a t-shirt.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Big Cat from Part of My Take, he says, Big Cat, America's roommate, which I thought was so perfect because when you're listening to Part of My Take, or just any show you like where it's like you you really like the host and you like to hear what they have to say, it does feel like you know, like a great roommate you've ever had, or somebody you can just hang out on the couch with and talk sports with or talk whatever with, talk about life with.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that applies to anybody who's just like a really good podcast host or has a really good show.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if people can get excited to tune into your show and it feels like they're like, you know, I'm gonna hang out with Chris.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna hang out with you know, Max for an hour.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's a it's not quite the same, but it's pretty close to being like, you know, like catching up with with friends or a good roommate, something like that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a really unique form of connection there.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, it is, man.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredible.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm gonna shift this as we finish things up here, just for for books for guys standpoint.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's why I was interested to talk with you, Max.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just again, like it's cool to hear you talk about all these podcasts because I was curious, just like with everyone you've worked with and you've been spouting off names, this guy does this podcast, and this these girls do this podcast, and just the things you've gotten to learn from listening as you're editing and knowing these people and knowing what they do.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a it's just an incredible space.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh again, I just wanted to say thank you again for coming on here and talking about it, just because I haven't had anyone, even with me having a podcast, I've never really talked to anyone else who either has a podcast or in your case, you've helped tons of people build their podcast.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a fascinating world that I just find I'm so thankful it was created because there's so many opportunities from it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: You get to meet so many cool people, you get to listen to stories, and um I don't know, man.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's just an incredible space.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, my pleasure.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, thanks again for thinking of me.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's the type of space that I get like fired up and excited to work on each day, whatever that looks like each day.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and like we were talking about before, it's really cool how it's like there's different reasons people start it.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So people's goals change.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some people use it for different reasons for themselves or for their business.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Any way you slice it, the fact that, you know, the fact that we're we're we're in a place in, you know, I guess technology has progressed this far that it's become so like the barriers to entry are so small for anybody starting a podcast.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as everybody says, it's like it's really hard to stand out and be really good at it for the long term.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the barrier entries are so small in order to actually have a conversation like this, whether you're doing video or not, you know, you can connect with people all around the world.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was reflecting back on that earlier of, you know, because Tim Ferris had a guest on from South Africa.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: This guy goes by like the lion tracker.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, really, really interesting story.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking, like, oh my God, I I hadn't thought about this in so long.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I had interviewed a guy who reached out randomly years ago, Dr.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Trouble's hot sauce, this hot sauce that comes out of Zimbabwe.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of my fondest interviews to look back on because, well, one, the hot sauce is amazing.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: They sent some and it's like incredible.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, it's some of the best hot sauce I've ever had.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole Dr.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Trouble story is amazing.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this family business, there's a great story behind it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: That interview, I did it from like my mom's closet at their home in Florida.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: The connection was so bad that there was like literally like a one or two minute delay between what he was saying and what I was saying.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it needed like tons of editing magic from that regard.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it was so genuine and such an amazing story.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole time I was just like, this guy's all the way around the world.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, the connection's up and down.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact we're able to connect like this, and then not only us, but like we can share the story with others and people can learn from it and, you know, be inspired, entertained by it is uh really, really cool.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm like you, I'm I'm very thankful, you know, podcasts were invented and you know, we'll keep evolving in a fun way too.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you've seen a lot of a lot of the upgrades.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, faster internet, faster connection, different technologies, AI.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's been so much you've been able to experience in your last eight, nine years of working in this space.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, heck, even me, I've seen differences within the last year that blew my mind just from like Well, now you got now you got a video used to be just YouTube, and now it's like all the, you know, Spotify is kind of was leading the charge in that of like getting more and more video into Spotify, and now Apple Podcasts.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the time there's recording, it's like hot off the press.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're starting to roll out videos for more people and podcasts as well.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all, you know, there's always more energy to video and all that, but like there's always going to be tons of changes.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of people.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's Netflix, next Netflix investing in podcasts.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, part of my take on that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, but there will always be immense hunger and need to have, whether you're listening or watching, some sort of you know, entertainment as you're as you're working or as you're doing like, you know, chores tasks around the house or as you're driving or commuting, like there's always um a space for on-demand stuff like that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's really, really cool.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome for connection, man.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is just human connection at its finest, you know, uh otherwise, you know, for face-to-face, but this is uh an easy way to connect with people and learn about them and have these awesome conversations.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm gonna do a hard pivot real quick because we were talking about this before we actually kick things off.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously gonna end a little bit on the Books for Guys conversation.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we were uh your journey of reading has been similar to a lot of guys, uh, and that's kind of again kind of the how Books for Guys was built.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you were sharing with me how, you know, growing up you didn't love reading, then you got a book that you actually were interested in, and so then you became, you know, an avid reader, you loved it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're a new dad, so you don't have as much time, which is which is fine.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you may have to get the audio books, you know, and listen like like you do with some podcasts.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But no, Max, I'm just curious to know, man, like in your reading journey, has there been a book or two that has helped you personally or professionally, whether it translates to to what you do from a podcasting standpoint or not?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: But has there been some books in your life that you can credit for just, I don't know, getting you to where you're at now, having a certain mindset or just something that, I don't know, you found to have a positive impact on you?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a few examples I can think of.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, as as you or Hintonette, we chatted about before, like we're we're very like-minded and apparently a lot of people are as far as kind of like an up and down relationship with reading.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or I joke that I don't have a love-hate reading relationship.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have a uh like a love-dormant relationship where it's like I'll go through phases where I love reading, I'll go through phases where I just I just can't don't have the time for it, you know, especially over the past year.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I want to get back more into it, especially, you know, like flights or maybe like a Sunday evening, something like that.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to get get back on that.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um a couple a few book examples to the to the point that you said that you know, a teacher introduced me to a book early on.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was a really fun one to to reminisce on.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I did not like reading it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm sure I was like fine, like, you know, as my parents read me kid books and stuff growing up, but like let's take us back to third grade, you know, that's when you start to be reading more and more like real books, not crazy, not infinite just and stuff like that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like you start to read more, you know, a little bit more of you know mature books than like a first or second grader.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I just really like I hated reading, I dreaded reading.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had this teacher, shout out Mrs.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Parmeley, who really got me to see that, you know, as you even say, uh showcase on your website.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you find the right book, reading can be a lot of fun.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: It can be really fulfilling, it can take you to another place, there's tons of benefits to it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: She really, Mrs.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Parmeley got really kind of dug deep into like what am I interested in?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: What kind, you know, there's all these genres.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these, you know, there's books on this, there's books on books.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the book that got me to like reading was Hatchet by Gary Paulson.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that one was so cool because I I've always liked uh I forgot about that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's been a lot, you know, that was third grade, and it was out for a long time before that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always uh I don't watch that many shows on it, funny enough, but I I've always liked movies that are like about survival and things like that, like the movie Lost.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean uh Castaway.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, show Lost, but the movie Castaway to Tom Hanks is a classic one.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've always find survival stories like that fascinating, behind enemy lines growing up.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was a really incredible story.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So always love that stuff.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that that book hatchet, I think I just came away like, wow, that like that was amazing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a book.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's stories like that.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that got me to see things differently from that standpoint.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other one that's kind of like that now that I think of it, that it was more for pure fun and pure enjoyment reading that I did after college was The Revenant, which of course became, you know, the Oscar-running movie with Leo.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think Leo's first Oscar.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just ever fascinated by that story, like what that guy went through and surviving in the wilderness and fighting off all sorts of everything, animals, people, elements.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's an incredible story.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the book anytime you can take a you could you have a book that is such a compelling story like that, whether it's you know, fiction or nonfiction, that takes you to another place, I think it's just so good for your brain and allows you to think about things in different ways and helps to balance out whatever else you're going through in your life.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I always love that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the pure on the pure influence influential book from like a podcasting sense, the one that really opened things up for me was the Tim Ferris book.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not four-hour work week, which I did love, of course.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a classic one, but the one I read before that was Tribe of Mentors by Tim Ferris, who I think goes by Timothy Ferris on his books.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that basically he has a little forward at the start of that book saying, like, whenever I try to do something new, I always think to myself, like, how do I do this as simply and easily as possible?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so for that book, it's not a traditional book in any sense, because he literally has, I don't know, there's like seven to ten questions that he asked a lot of his podcast guests, but he also he sent out like mass emails to a bunch of people in his network.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, he's got a lot of high profile, super talented people in his network, but the same sort of question.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you ask the same sort of question to all these different people, you get a lot of really fasting answers.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he basically took those questions, took the answers, turned that into a book, which a ton of people have done in the podcasting space.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: But the way he did it was so good.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think that got me really even more interested in finding out how entrepreneurs tick, got me more into his podcast and got me more thinking about like, you know, how could I connect with entrepreneurs or what can we learn from, you know, what are good questions to ask people?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are the right way to go about this?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so that book itself, I think, is like the biggest inspiration in terms of me getting into podcasting.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know it was going to get into production after that, but it's just from a pure hosting standpoint.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's awesome.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have not read that book yet, actually.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's been on my list, and now that you've recommended it.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I need to read it because I've read the four-hour work week.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um read that book.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a classic.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right after college, too.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And in my first job, I was sitting here thinking, like, what am I doing?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be doing something else.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it makes you it makes you think about everything.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: My dad always said that he's like, he's like, I love that book.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the best things I've ever read.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, now if I did follow everything that was in that book, you know, our business and our life and everything would look much more different than it does today.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's definitely thinking about it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not for everybody, but there's a lot of things that you can apply from that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, yeah, he's the man.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's awesome.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna add the the other one to my uh well, it's on my list.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to actually pick it up and read it now.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those that's it's super thick, but it it's really easy to read because it's you know, same questions over and over again.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's often the you know, the answers are I mean, some of the answers are multiple pages, but some of the answers are short paragraphs, and so it's it's way quicker to read than you'd think by uh you know why they say don't judge a book by cover its cover.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't buy judge it by its thickness.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, I mean you said something else too, man.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh and again, podcast, there's there's some correlation there.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this that's why I enjoy doing this, is because yeah, with certain books, I can get lost in it, and it takes me away from from reality for a while, whether that be fiction or nonfiction, but it just makes me think of things differently, or I'm I'm engrossed into whatever I'm looking at.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Podcasts can have the same effect when you're listening, whether it be a story or a business podcast, you're just it takes your full focus a lot of times.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um or not your full focus, you can do things while listening, but it just gets your mind in a different state, which is cool.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking about that.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a good indicator I've found of if like a podcast is really, really good.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like if it's a super compelling episode.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm a huge fan of uh Jocko, Jocko Wellink as well.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Jocko podcast.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh I mean, always found, you know, war history, military history fascinating.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he's done an incredible job with his show.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there was an episode of that where like I was doing something else while listening, and typically like I'm one of these people that's obsessed with like you know, I I'm always curious.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have to know, you know, everything about everything.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like when I listen to music and a random song comes up on Spotify, I'm clicking on it and saying, Oh, when did this song come out?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: What album was it?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Things like that.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, it's hard for me to relax.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, typically with the podcast, I will, you know, pretty, you know, every now and then check and see like how far it is in the episode, how much time has progressed.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: There was a Jocko episode where like I was so in you know, immersed in the story that I hadn't even looked at my phone.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're just like an hour and a half into this episode.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my god, that hour and a half went by like that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's a good indicator for a podcast.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you can get people lost in a good way, uh to the point they're not they're not even checking on things like that, then you're like you've really stumbled on a a cool way of storytelling.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I've had I've had like a miles on the treadmill goal, and I I've ended up exceeding it before because I was lost in the podcast.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this is awesome because it was a great story, and I ended up doing more than I was uh planning to do, which is also good.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: But uh no, Max, this has been awesome, man.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people find your podcast or how can they reach out to you if they're interested in working with you?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chris.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks again for having me.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: This means a ton.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love your platform and and everything you're about.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's so much to learn and and be curious about out there, so all for it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Simplest way for all things in in my world or that I've talked about today is maxpodcasting.com.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there you can see links to the podcast, which is Wild Business Growth.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have a newsletter called Podcasting to the Max, comes out every Thursday.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can sign up there, and uh, you know, all my socials are linked there.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: So maxpodcasting.com for short.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll make sure all of that's in the uh the notes on the episode too to make it super easy for people to go find you on.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, well, Max, dude, this has been such a cool conversation.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for taking the time to do this.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh man, can't can't wait to to hear more of your podcast and see all of the cool podcasts that you helped work on and and helped grow.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Chris.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: That means a ton.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, go uh what's it uh we'll pig Zui.