Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Dallas Dining Debate with Josh Sutcliff and Drew Stephenson : Episode 195

Transcript

Dallas Dining Debate with Josh Sutcliff and Drew Stephenson : Episode 195 · Chef's PSA Podcast

• 0:00
  I, I, I am to the point where you don't need to impress me.
• 0:04
  I, what will impress me more is if it tastes good, that will
• 0:07
  impress me more than, oh, I made this fucking tweel great.
• 0:12
  How does the tweel? Does the tweel have flavor?
• 0:14
  What does it taste like? Flour.
• 0:16
  Hello chefs. This is Chefs PSA and I'm your
• 0:18
  host Andre Natera. Today I'm joined by Josh
• 0:20
  Sutcliffe of 5570 and Drew Stevenson, better known as the
• 0:24
  food guy. This conversation started with a
• 0:27
  viral post about the Dallas dining scene and quickly turned
• 0:30
  into deeper discussion about Michelin expectations, diner
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  culture, and what actually makes restaurants succeed.
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  We talked about the recent Texas Michelin Guide, why tasting menu
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  restaurants struggle, the economics behind running a
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  restaurant, and how chefs balance creativity, consistency,
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  and identity. We give a good critique on the
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  Dallas restaurant dining scene of where it is, where it was,
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  and potentially where it's going.
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  Stay tuned. The reason this podcast is
• 1:07
  happening today is because you posted something crazy on
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  Instagram that went viral. For people that don't know, can
• 1:13
  you give us a little bit of context of what you posted?
• 1:17
  And so after you post this and I'll give people my side of the
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  story is when this was sent to me by like 10 different chefs,
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  everyone's like, did you read this?
• 1:24
  Did you read this? Did you read this?
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  I was like, fuck, this is wild. But I thought you hit the nail
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  on the head on a lot of points. Maybe I don't agree with all of
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  it, but I think for the most part, I think I'm like a plus.
• 1:33
  It was a great song that you put on the on the poses it.
• 1:35
  Was really the song. Yeah, it was the song, right?
• 1:37
  So everyone knows I like hip hop music.
• 1:38
  So it was Nas. Ain't hard to tell.
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  Arguably one of the greatest albums, Illmatic, my opinion,
• 1:44
  the greatest MC, Nas, but we digress.
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  For people that don't know what was the post, what sparked it?
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  And then we're going to get into this conversation.
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  It's a hot topic. Yeah, so actually I was at one
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  of Josh's dinners. He hosted RJ in a collab dinner
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  so. For people that don't know who's
• 2:01
  RJ? RJ Yoakam is a chef.
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  He's the CDC at Sushi Cozy right now.
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  Got his start stodging at places all over the country in the
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  world. So he worked at Angler and the
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  French Laundry and then hopped over to Dallas.
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  Got a career going at Georgie. And then we said he was also
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  nominated for James Beard Rising Chef Rising Stout.
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  Yeah, yeah. And then, And then.
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  Now he's where. Now he's the CDC at Sushi Cozy.
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  Yeah, super talented chef. Yes, very talented.
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  Funny thing is, we were supposed to, we were supposed to do a
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  podcast, the three of us. And then there was like an ice
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  storm. We had to cancel it like, and
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  right now he's eating that cellar.
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  Tacon, Roca. Yeah, in a sweatshirt.
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  Yeah, in a sweatshirt. I'm in a sweatshirt.
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  Was there a few nights ago. I think he went to an enigma
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  last night. Yeah.
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  So he's he's doing it up, yeah. But anyway, back to the post.
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  So Yep, you posted this. Yeah, so I was at a collab
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  dinner that Josh's Spot 5570 hosted, and I was sitting across
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  the table from two people who are pretty well traveled diners
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  and food lovers. We got into a conversation about
• 3:11
  Mamani that got a little heated, and it just started to really
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  become frustrating to me that diners in Dallas really didn't
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  receive the restaurant well. We have this exceptional chef
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  who comes from the Robuchon lineage who was personally
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  mentored by him for. Like he he was the CDC or
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  exactly? He was the executive.
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  He was the executive. Yeah, yeah.
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  Yeah, and I mean, he's insanely talented.
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  His sauce work is crazy classic French.
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  He opens up this Bistro, you know, an elevated Bistro in
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  Dallas called Mamani. Which I've I haven't been, but I
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  have friends with multiple Michelin stars that have eaten
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  there and I've said 10 out of 10.
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  It's, it's amazing they're doing things right.
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  And you can get the robichon and mashed potatoes, of course he's
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  going to do those. And it's just, it's, it's a
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  great experience from top to bottom.
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  The food's exceptional. And knowing that Dallas was
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  going to receive a chef of that caliber, all of our, you know,
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  feelers started to go off. Our Spidey senses were like, Oh
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  my gosh, like we got a guy with that level of skill coming to
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  Dallas. This is going to be a big deal
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  when he opens his place. We all go eat there and and
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  we're all loving it. But the people who really don't
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  get it seem to be criticizing the place, not receiving it
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  well, saying it didn't deserve a star, saying that other
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  restaurants are way better, that are just very mediocre.
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  So they're just seem to be a really, there was a lot of
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  frustration rising with how Mamani was being received in
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  Dallas. You drop that restaurant
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  anywhere else in the country that has a better dining culture
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  with diners who get it and I think it's received well.
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  So the fact that it wasn't being received well in Dallas became
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  frustrating and it just, I think it was shining light on the
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  problem with some of the people they eat in the city.
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  I I think it's also fair to say that these were just two people,
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  right? Yeah.
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  I personally have heard nothing mainly great things about what
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  they're doing to Mummy. So subjective, right?
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  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I also do have more of a
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  so I'm not a chef. Right.
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  And so I want you to tell people what you do because you've eaten
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  that a ton of Michelin Star Wars.
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  Like that's kind of your thing. Yeah.
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  So, yeah, I, I've been around the world.
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  I'm not as well traveled to some people, but I've eaten my share
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  my my fair share of, you know, fine dining meals with Michelin
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  stars. And I think once you do enough
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  of that, you can either become numb to it or you can start to
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  kind of dial in and understand food on a different level.
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  And I've been doing a lot of that for the past 10 years.
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  So when the Michelin Guide came to Texas, hopped around the
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  state, I try and stay current and eat at all the spots.
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  And I thought I was looking through things with a pretty
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  healthy lens. And again, when mom and he
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  arrived, I thought, OK, this is this is an exceptional
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  restaurant. Let's receive this well.
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  And then I think also being a diner and not a chef, I hear a
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  lot more of the voices from people on my end, whereas I
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  think that chefs tend to hear voices from another perspective.
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  I think I have a unique perspective and that people will
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  say things to me and they'll give criticisms to me that they
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  would never point out to y'all. Right.
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  And, and This is why I wanted you on the show.
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  And This is why I thought it was good because a lot of times as
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  chefs, we talk to each other and we like, Oh, you know, we, we
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  talk a lot of chefs, chefs, chefs talk a lot of shit.
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  But, but we're, we're, we're in our bubble and it's kind of a,
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  a, a cuisine elitist bubble. A lot of times, depending on
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  what chef circles you're running in and what we think is
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  important might not be what you think is important to what you
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  think is important, might not be what we think is important.
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  And sometimes those things don't align.
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  But ultimately, and you know, Josh and I were talking about
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  this is like, ultimately is like, what's the mark of a
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  successful restaurant? Is it a Michelin star?
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  Is it being on eaters top 20? Is it a culture map nomination?
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  Is it a James Beard award? Is it a full dining room?
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  I to paraphrase Kanye West, like the I'll take the I got a lot of
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  cheese award, right? Because ultimately that's one
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  that matters is can your restaurant stay open?
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  Can you can you pay your staff? Are your bills paid on time?
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  Are you going to be open next week?
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  And when that's clicking and, and I think you and I talked
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  about this, I think it's probably harder and this is
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  fucking hot take. I'm gonna get myself in trouble
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  for saying this. I think it's probably harder,
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  harder to get on to have a restaurant that's profitable for
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  10 years. Oh, I know.
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  We're going with this. Than to get on a list.
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  Sometimes it's easier to get on the list than it is to have a
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  profitable restaurant for 10 years.
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  This is true, right? Yeah, this is true.
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  And I think, I think with Muhammadi, that restaurant's
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  doing really well, right? And, and maybe you, you hear
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  this on this side of the table and I think I know people on my
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  side, they're doing well. The restaurant is doing well.
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  I think they also come in with the highest expectation, right,
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  higher than anybody else. And some people are going to
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  like, say they didn't hit the mark for me because the
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  expectations went through the roof.
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  And part of that is probably the culture and the dining and the
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  people, they don't really quite understand maybe what that looks
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  like. But overall, you know, from my
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  perspective, they've they've continued to thrive and are
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  doing well. And, you know, as we know, as
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  chefs, right, it really takes about three years for your
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  restaurant to settle, for you to really, really get that groove
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  going. And, and that's what I'm excited
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  to see about them, right? Were they in, in, in 15 months?
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  Were they in 18 months? Were they in two years?
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  Were they in three years, 'cause they, as we talked about this
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  earlier, right? Evolution of restaurants, of
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  cooks, of chefs? That is the sweet spot, yeah.
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  Yeah. So I think that the GM, Sue
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  Young, the Psalm, the chef, Christophe, they would all say
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  as of right now, they're still trying to figure out who they
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  are as they're trying to find their footing and develop a
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  rhythm and a cadence. Do you?
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  Do you think, and I should probably ask, I don't know, I
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  don't know Christophe, I want to meet him.
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  I I know you said you'd connect me with them.
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  We have mutual friends. But do you think they understand
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  the Dallas dining scene, or do you think they will evolve into
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  something that looks different in a few years than it is today?
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  I think the owners, Brandon and Henry, really understand the
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  Dallas dining scene. And I think, and these kids are
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  young, they're like 25 and 29, they seem to be putting on a
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  master class of how to open a restaurant in Dallas.
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  They understand it better than anyone.
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  And I think that Mamani is a restaurant that plays to Dallas
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  and how diners like to eat here. Explain this because we were
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  actually just talking about this.
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  Yeah, I, I want to know what your take is, and I want to
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  share my take, too. What I would do if I had like
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  carte blanche in Dallas. What would I do right now?
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  OK, so let's just look at the team first.
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  OK, so Christophe comes from a three star caliber restaurant in
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  Vegas, Joel Rashon's namesake or namesake.
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  And in Vegas, Ally, the original Psalm, who's no longer there,
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  came from the Little Inn at Washington three stars.
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  And then Sue Young came, she was the GM at 11 Madison Park in New
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  York City. So all these three star caliper
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  places, crazy fine dining spots that are have elite front of
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  house programs and they just they assembled The Avengers, you
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  know what I mean? And so they could have come to
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  Dallas and they could have put on a an 11 Madison Park or Joel
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  Bouchon style tasting menu, like they could have run the
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  restaurant that way. But I think they understood that
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  in order to open a successful restaurant in Dallas, if they
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  did that, they wouldn't fill seats.
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  Probably be you know, if they if they could handle 40 covers a
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  night, they might get half of that.
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  They would have been closed before they opened.
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  The restaurant would have fizzled out in six months.
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  I also said sorry because you all, if they did that in Austin,
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  they would have failed. If they would have did that in
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  Houston, they would have failed. If they would have done that in
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  Tony also, they probably failed. Kitchens are brutal right now,
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  everyone knows it. Fewer people on the line,
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  margins tighter than ever, and somehow the expectations keep
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  going up. There's just no room to miss
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  anymore. I was talking to a chef recently
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  who said the biggest stress wasn't the volume, it was the
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  mental load. Babysitting, food, timing,
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  everything perfectly, trying to be everywhere at once.
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  And that's where equipment matters more than people want to
• 11:46
  admit. Rationals Technology comes up a
• 11:48
  lot in those conversations. The Icon B Pro, the Ivario Pro,
• 11:52
  overnight roast that don't need to be checked, custom programs
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  for all your recipes, consistency without hovering
• 11:58
  completely automated cleaning, monitoring everything from your
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  phone, The list goes on. And what really buys you the
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  headspace? Less standing over pans and more
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  time to leave the kitchen instead of constantly putting
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  out tiny fires. When you're down to cook, when
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  the prep list is rough, when the production ramps up.
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  Think rational. So I, yeah, I, I just think that
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  the, the task at hand to bring Chef Kristoff in and then Psalms
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  and GMs of that caliber, they couldn't do what was going to
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  work in New York City or Chicago or Washington, DC or or San
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  Francisco. They had they had to pivot and
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  do something catered to Dallas. So I did a podcast.
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  It was a solo podcast, maybe about a year or actually before
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  the Michelin Guide was probably announced in Texas.
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  I did a podcast like if I wanted to get a Michelin star, what
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  would I do? And I just kind of laid out my
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  blueprint and what I said in the podcast.
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  I said the fastest way for me to get a Michelin and nothing's
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  guaranteed, right? Just because I do this doesn't
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  mean I'm going to get anything. It's just this is what I would
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  do is I would hire my chef, my SOM, my GM, and my pastry chef.
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  Those four key positions would all come from a leadership
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  position, not a cook, but from a or a like, no, you led a
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  Michelin, you've done it, you understand it, You've LED A-Team
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  at that level. And I would open with that
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  because that will get you there quicker than the number two or
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  the number 3 in those places. And it sounds like they, I, I'm,
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  I'm going to take credit. They listen to my podcast, they
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  probably listen to the guy, they got the playbook.
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  You're welcome. You're welcome.
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  Dallas, What I would do, I'll joke it aside and, and we were,
• 13:41
  we were just talking about this if because for people that don't
• 13:45
  know the Texas diocese, it's very different.
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  Dallas is in Houston, Houston is in Austin, Austin is in San
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  Antonio. El Paso is its own thing.
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  And each city has a, a different identity.
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  I was a chef in Dallas for 10 years or so, and I've also been
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  a chef in Austin, or was for about about the same amount of
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  time. And the way I cook in Austin,
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  it's not the way I cook in Dallas.
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  And one of the things that I think if I was gonna do it today
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  in Dallas, not what I did years ago, but if I was gonna do it
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  today is I would say what does Dallas really want?
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  And I would make a checklist. What are they?
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  Well, who's gonna support this Michelin star dream?
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  It's gonna be most likely the Park Cities area.
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  So you're catering to that clientele 'cause that's who's
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  gonna fund it, right? That's those are your guests
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  every night. OK, What do they want?
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  Well, they probably don't want a 20 course tasty menu.
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  They don't have the bandwidth for it.
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  So I would say the sweet spot is probably 5 to 6 courses Max.
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  I would say there has to be a banging beef course.
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  Great steak program. A great a great beef right there
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  probably can't be too high IQ food.
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  You you want it to be very interesting, very delicious, but
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  you don't want to serve something they've never heard
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  of, right? It needs to be very, you know,
• 14:55
  it needs to be familiar enough for them to be like, OK, I get
• 14:57
  it. I understand.
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  I can wrap my head around it. I could get out in about two
• 15:01
  hours. Maybe 2 1/2 is pushing it
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  because by that point my phone is itching and I can't wait to
• 15:07
  go right. These are the things that I that
• 15:10
  I probably have. I'm sorry.
• 15:11
  They start to get fatigued. Yeah, you get you get a dining
• 15:14
  fatigue. Maybe your chair is not
• 15:15
  comfortable, maybe you don't love your server, or maybe you
• 15:18
  don't love the spots you're at. There's a lot of things that.
• 15:20
  Those would be the things that I would think a, if I was going to
• 15:23
  go for a Michelin caliber restaurant in Dallas that like
• 15:26
  it wouldn't be a Michelin caliber restaurant in my opinion
• 15:29
  in Dallas, it doesn't look like Copenhagen or Spain.
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  It's a completely different. Look, so I, I sat down.
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  I, I can't remember where I was, but I was at a dining experience
• 15:36
  in Dallas years ago. The meal was probably about 3
• 15:39
  hours. There was a woman who got up and
• 15:41
  left at an hour 30. It's like she she paid for the
• 15:43
  meal with a talk ticket and she was just like, I'm really sorry
• 15:46
  guys, I got to get out of here. I, I know I do, I do think, I do
• 15:52
  think some of that has to do with the culture of the phones
• 15:54
  and the life that we live. And we're now like, we got to
• 15:57
  move so fast. You know, we're, we're not.
• 16:01
  And then, you know, think about tasting menus like what, what
• 16:04
  are, why are tasting menus so high up on the, on the pedigree?
• 16:06
  What what what? Why is the tasting menu have to
• 16:09
  to to correlate with a great restaurant, right?
• 16:11
  So I'll, I'll share something. When I was a cook, I was
• 16:14
  thinking about this the other day, maybe we talked about it,
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  that when I was a cook and I worked in this fine dining
• 16:19
  restaurant, I was a teenager, I was, it was a fine dining
• 16:21
  restaurant then I was just a sauteed cook at this restaurant
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  and tasting menus were not a thing.
• 16:26
  There was prefix menus and, but most of the time it was an A la
• 16:30
  carte menu. And, and you can go back into
• 16:32
  your history, most of these gastronomy temples that do
• 16:36
  tasting menus and have been around for a long time served
• 16:40
  Ala carte before they ever did tasting menus.
• 16:42
  Go do your research. I promise you.
• 16:44
  I've seen a Trotter's menu that's Ala carte French Laundry,
• 16:47
  right, right. They were, it evolved into what
• 16:50
  it is today, but they all didn't start that way.
• 16:52
  And the reason I bring this up is because what was considered
• 16:56
  fine dining 20 years ago or, or you know, 30 years ago in in
• 17:00
  this case, what I'm talking about is everyone got an amuse.
• 17:03
  So you ordered your three courses.
• 17:05
  You ordered your your starter, your entree and your dessert,
• 17:08
  but you knew you were going to get a post dessert trolley or
• 17:10
  something or bon bons been your DS.
• 17:12
  You knew you were going to get an amuse boost.
• 17:14
  You knew you were going to get a sorbet course because it's a
• 17:16
  fine dining restaurant. You're going to order three
• 17:18
  things, but you're going to end up with six courses, right?
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  They're gonna send that out anyway.
• 17:22
  And at a certain point, it just became more efficient to say,
• 17:25
  well, let's do this. And you know, I had joke rounds
• 17:27
  like it's better than six minute ABS or 7 minute ABS 6 minute ABS
• 17:31
  went the other way. We just said, well, we'll do 11
• 17:34
  courses if we could do 11 courses and they'll pay for it.
• 17:37
  What happens when we do 15? And.
• 17:38
  They'll pay for it. And I wonder how much of that
• 17:40
  came with the ticket price, How much of that and something that
• 17:43
  I think is very keen on Dallas, right?
• 17:45
  And something as I, as I travel back and forth from Dallas to
• 17:47
  Houston, opening our our second club there later this year, I
• 17:52
  think about like spaces in Dallas are big, right?
• 17:56
  Yeah, rent per square foot is expensive, right?
• 17:59
  So as I go to some awesome restaurants in Houston, right?
• 18:02
  There's no zoning there. So like, you don't have to have,
• 18:05
  if you have 40 seats, you don't have to have X amount of parking
• 18:08
  spots, right? In Dallas, you need all that,
• 18:11
  right? If you have this many seats, you
• 18:12
  gotta have this many parking spots, so on and so forth.
• 18:15
  And it makes it a little bit more challenging.
• 18:17
  And I think the spaces are bigger here.
• 18:19
  There's not a lot of quaint 1400 square foot spaces, right?
• 18:23
  They don't they, they're, they're not really, they're not,
• 18:25
  they don't really exist too much.
• 18:27
  And I think that's, you know, another thing that comes with,
• 18:30
  right, things have gotten more expensive.
• 18:32
  I, I want to ask you just because you brought it up,
• 18:33
  because you have a very interesting place that you run.
• 18:36
  So it's not open to the public. It's a private club.
• 18:38
  If I'm private members club, private members club, but you
• 18:42
  serve a fine dining restaurant and you're opening in Houston,
• 18:44
  right? So you're opening in Houston?
• 18:45
  Oh, how far? How far up?
• 18:49
  We we're we're slated to open in November.
• 18:51
  So that's not far. Are you hiring a chef already?
• 18:53
  Hiring a Chef actually just posted a job posting yesterday
• 18:56
  on couple couple job platforms so.
• 18:59
  What what are you looking to try to get back in the business?
• 19:01
  I I might, yeah. I'm, I'm a bit rusty.
• 19:03
  I probably got a bad back but and bad knees.
• 19:05
  But I could give orders still, like I still have a chef brain.
• 19:08
  I could still give orders. I don't know if I could still do
• 19:10
  it though. Just hang on Expo.
• 19:11
  It's gonna be, it's gonna be quite a thing, man 30,000 square
• 19:14
  feet. It's gonna be beautiful.
• 19:15
  It's gonna be our flagship for sure.
• 19:16
  So you're you. Are you actively looking for an
• 19:18
  exact? We're actively looking, Yeah, we
• 19:19
  just said just literally posted yesterday we're we're starting
• 19:22
  to recruit, bring people on looking outside of Texas.
• 19:24
  Well shit man, people are listening right now working.
• 19:27
  If someone's interested in applying for an exec chef job,
• 19:29
  where where would you send? I mean, either send an e-mail to
• 19:32
  5570 at or find me on, you know, social media.
• 19:36
  J Seckliff. Send them Adm don't DMD.
• 19:38
  DM or don't or call a restaurant or find the LinkedIn.
• 19:42
  Yeah. Google search it.
• 19:43
  People shouldn't DM me by the way, like I have AII just
• 19:45
  recently, like in the past three weeks or two weeks.
• 19:49
  I have a a bot now because I I got to the point where I was
• 19:54
  getting too many DMS. So if anyone's DM ING me and
• 19:57
  you're having the only reason I'm bringing this up is because
• 19:59
  yesterday someone DM Ed me and there was this long
• 20:03
  conversation. I caught it, but it's not me
• 20:06
  that they're talking to it. So it's just an AI that that
• 20:08
  I've programmed to respond to some basic questions.
• 20:11
  And so I looked at it and like there was this long thread
• 20:15
  conversation, but it they were an AI also.
• 20:19
  So an AI and my AI were just kept going back and forth like.
• 20:24
  And I was like, someone used their AI to DM me and then it
• 20:27
  just went back and forth into this long thread and I read.
• 20:29
  I was like, oh these AI started getting at it.
• 20:31
  It's coming. I just I don't want to get off
• 20:34
  but I I called a plumbing company today and it was AI bot
• 20:37
  and I'm like I end up hanging up so.
• 20:39
  Give me a human all day. I mean, the the human element
• 20:43
  you want from me is going to be on the podcast.
• 20:45
  Well, here's the thing though. A lot of people called me out on
• 20:49
  this post I wrote and were like, that was ChatGPT.
• 20:52
  Like, well, yeah, I have horrible writing skills.
• 20:55
  So everything, everything I write, I plug it into ChatGPT
• 20:58
  and say clean this up, fix the Senate structure, make my
• 21:02
  grammar better. ChatGPT does nothing without a
• 21:04
  prompt, right? It's gotta start.
• 21:05
  It's gotta start from you for now.
• 21:07
  But but I'll tell you the the same people that are calling you
• 21:09
  out for fucking using ChatGPT. I mean, I, I fucking AI has a
• 21:13
  fucking way it speaks. It has a way that it writes and
• 21:17
  I'll tell you, everyone's fucking using it like everyone.
• 21:21
  Like all these people that say they're not, they're all of you
• 21:24
  are fucking. Used.
• 21:24
  And if you're not, get on it, dude.
• 21:26
  Yeah, yeah. What are you doing?
• 21:27
  Yeah, yeah. Thank you for affirming me in
• 21:30
  that, because doing a post like that that goes viral, you get a
• 21:34
  lot of haters. And so there, there was some
• 21:37
  mean, ugly things said that I kind of had to go to my wife and
• 21:40
  mentors and kind of, you know, debrief and, and and talk about.
• 21:44
  And it took a few days, but I had to develop some tough skin
• 21:48
  quickly. Yeah, but but yeah, it's just a.
• 21:51
  A lot of that don't, don't, don't reward idiots with your
• 21:54
  time and. Attention.
• 21:55
  I've. I've heard you say that before.
• 21:57
  It's a good lesson to learn. And I've.
• 21:59
  I learned quickly not to respond to anything.
• 22:02
  Yeah, just just. Let I think, I think from your
• 22:04
  end, right? And I think it's all coming from
• 22:06
  the right spot. You want a you want a better
• 22:08
  dining scene, right? Yeah, and, or, and, or you want
• 22:10
  to have a conversation about it, right?
• 22:12
  There's nothing wrong with that, right?
• 22:13
  I think everybody looks at it and tries to find the negative.
• 22:16
  I almost actually cope commented and replied.
• 22:19
  And I'm like, you know what? Like this is too deep of a topic
• 22:23
  to like write a post about that has like, hey, yeah, I think XY
• 22:27
  and Z. And so I didn't, but I saw a lot
• 22:31
  of people did. But not only that, but people
• 22:32
  are gonna read your comment. But they're gonna, they're not
• 22:35
  gonna read your comment. They're gonna read what what
• 22:37
  they think you mean. Yes.
• 22:37
  That's right. That's right.
• 22:38
  Exactly. Right.
• 22:39
  And they might not even read everything.
• 22:40
  And you're gonna say like you're gonna say that's not what I said
• 22:42
  at all. Did you read what I wrote?
• 22:43
  Not gonna. Ask for clarity.
• 22:44
  No, they're just gonna. They're just.
• 22:46
  Gonna assume. They're gonna say, oh, you, you
• 22:48
  fucking piece of shit, Yeah. How dare eject based on how they
• 22:51
  think exactly. Yeah.
• 22:52
  But what do you think? Like what do you think?
• 22:54
  Like as me and Andre talked about this, like, you know, what
• 22:57
  we don't want to didn't want to do is just kind of talk in
• 22:59
  circles. What's like, where do we go from
• 23:02
  here? Like what do we, what do you
• 23:03
  think we should, we should do as, as a, as a me being a chef
• 23:07
  and being in the community. Yeah, I think, I think this is
• 23:11
  where I have a unique voice. I hope is that you're chefs, you
• 23:16
  speak a different language. I would be the person who would
• 23:23
  find like, OK, if if you guys assembled with like four or five
• 23:26
  other chefs, started having a really deep conversation and you
• 23:29
  got into the nitty gritty of being a chef, I would sort of
• 23:32
  just grab, I'd do the Homer Simpson thing and kind of like
• 23:34
  go back into the Bush, you know what I mean?
• 23:36
  And I, I just feel like, all right, I'll let them talk so I
• 23:39
  have a different perspective. I understand food from a diner's
• 23:42
  lens. And I think that I want to hold
• 23:48
  myself and other people eating the food accountable.
• 23:51
  You guys are doing everything you can.
• 23:52
  But but why do you want to do that though?
• 23:54
  I'm just. I want to see Dallas develop a
• 23:58
  better restaurant scene. But but but you're speaking for
• 24:01
  Dallas, but this could be applied everywhere to to other
• 24:05
  cities as well. Dallas isn't unique, and it's no
• 24:08
  in this. No, and and I wrote about this
• 24:10
  recently, there's some pretty good Michelin guides filling out
• 24:14
  in Atlanta, Orlando and Denver. Orlando now has a two star Sora
• 24:20
  car. I'll actually be there in a few
• 24:21
  weeks. I can't wait.
• 24:22
  Denver has a two star now. And these guides started pretty
• 24:26
  bare bones back when they were in their infant stage or their
• 24:30
  inaugural year, but they are filling out pretty nicely.
• 24:35
  Do those cities have these strong culinary identities?
• 24:38
  No, Orlando is not known for something.
• 24:40
  They're known for Disney. I don't know what food they're
• 24:42
  known for. Does Denver have a strong
• 24:44
  culinary, culinary identity? I don't think so.
• 24:48
  Maybe Atlanta kind of does. But these places have brought in
• 24:52
  better restaurants. They have some really awesome
• 24:53
  chefs and some really cool things are happening.
• 24:56
  So I don't think that Dallas has a strong food identity, but I do
• 25:01
  think. Well, hold on.
• 25:03
  Does it and you just don't like. It.
• 25:04
  Yeah, I think that's the truth. It does have a strong.
• 25:06
  Culinary, it does have an identity.
• 25:08
  I'm not a big fan of the identity yeah.
• 25:11
  I think that's an honest yeah interpretation, yeah, but yeah,
• 25:15
  I think that yeah. Why do I want this to I, I, I
• 25:19
  think that when you look around the state of Texas and then
• 25:24
  especially when you look at our elite food scenes in the
• 25:26
  country, Chicago, the Bay Area, New York City, there's just some
• 25:30
  really awesome stuff going on. And diners speak a different
• 25:33
  language out there. You can find someone entry level
• 25:36
  food fan and they seem to know a lot more about where to get good
• 25:42
  food, what makes a good dish great?
• 25:44
  They understand balance of flavor.
• 25:47
  They can spot good technique. Was this food cooked correctly
• 25:51
  or incorrectly? Like they speak a language like
• 25:53
  that on a much lower entry level of diner, and it can be hard to
• 25:58
  find that in Dallas as far as people like me.
• 26:01
  It's true. I mean, we have a we have a
• 26:03
  different culture here. Yeah, right.
• 26:04
  I mean, mine, my, my, my view of our culture here is right, given
• 26:11
  the size of the spaces. And you know, we're, this is the
• 26:13
  financial capital of Texas, you know, like this.
• 26:16
  Is Dallas Stock Exchange is coming here so.
• 26:18
  It's coming here, man. I mean, this is, I mean, you
• 26:19
  know, we're in the Park City. Which I'm going to put a pit in
• 26:21
  that, but go ahead, yeah. We're in the Park Cities and
• 26:25
  like you need to be, you know, I, I think being in the
• 26:29
  restaurant business for so long and, and my view is, is, is, is
• 26:34
  good because like, I came from successful restaurants, like
• 26:36
  nothing anybody would have heard of in my, my early years.
• 26:40
  But I came from restaurants that they were about one thing and I
• 26:44
  mean mostly one thing. And it was about making money,
• 26:46
  right? Because if you don't make money,
• 26:48
  guess what? You can't serve food to people
• 26:50
  and then you don't have a business.
• 26:51
  And so that that was always talk to me at an early age was like,
• 26:56
  this is, this is a business and it's about making money more
• 26:58
  than it is anything else. And as it kind of got further,
• 27:00
  it also right became about the cuisine and the food and the
• 27:02
  freshness and the quality of ingredients.
• 27:04
  And then right understanding that it's the chef's job to make
• 27:08
  that work to figure that out. And I think in Dallas, we have
• 27:14
  our, our spaces are too big, which equates to us needing to
• 27:18
  be able to have more revenue, have more people come in the
• 27:22
  doors. And that doesn't equate to a
• 27:24
  tasting menu style restaurant or or even a restaurant that you
• 27:26
  can sit 40 people, right and. And the kitchens are too small.
• 27:30
  Like, are your dining rooms are too big?
• 27:32
  I mean. We have, you know, we're 12,500,
• 27:35
  just, you know, us, for example, our kitchen's 700 square feet
• 27:39
  open breakfast, lunch, dinner, do banquets out of there.
• 27:42
  It's hard, right? And you mean you talked about
• 27:44
  this earlier, right? Like what?
• 27:46
  Where we need to be focusing on is just being the best at what
• 27:50
  we do, right? I'm in the private club space.
• 27:52
  I promise you, I'm working hard as I can to make sure we are the
• 27:55
  best, the best leaders, the best cooks, the best foods coming
• 27:58
  out, the best in what we do. That's, that's, that's our hope
• 28:02
  and that's our goal. And that's what we're shooting
• 28:03
  for. And, and, and again, I've been
• 28:05
  in those situations where I end up at a place and I think this
• 28:09
  is where Dallas gets stuck. Sometimes our chefs is like you,
• 28:12
  you want to be doing your food or what you think is your food
• 28:15
  or creative or boundary pushing, but you end up taking the job at
• 28:18
  a hotel and that's not really what they want.
• 28:20
  And so you end up maybe producing, let's call it, 70% of
• 28:24
  what you actually really could do.
• 28:26
  And then we start to see that and see that and see that
• 28:27
  because people aren't, they want to cook.
• 28:29
  And, and it's more about the ego or I can do this, but I haven't
• 28:33
  been given the opportunity. And then the other side of that
• 28:36
  is financial, right? If you don't know finances and
• 28:40
  you get in the restaurant business and you don't know
• 28:43
  again, and Andre talk about this like money comes in and money
• 28:47
  goes out, how you control that money is a whole different skill
• 28:51
  set. And chefs aren't trained to be
• 28:54
  in a position to understand cash flow.
• 28:57
  No, I jokingly say that we have capitalists hiring artists and
• 29:02
  then we wonder why the relationship doesn't work it.
• 29:05
  Doesn't it? Sometimes it doesn't work.
• 29:07
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to something and it's it might,
• 29:11
  it's gonna start in one place, but it's gonna end up as a rant.
• 29:13
  It's gonna be a little bit of a history lesson.
• 29:16
  So a, a friend of mine, he's a food writer here in Dallas.
• 29:21
  His name is Andrew Chalk. He sent me something recently
• 29:23
  that he wrote and he's writing an article about the Dallas
• 29:26
  Stock Exchange. And what will that do to the
• 29:29
  dining seat in Dallas? Because a big part of what lifts
• 29:32
  up the the New York dining scene is, is expense accounts.
• 29:37
  A a lot of people are on. It's that Wall Street wallet
• 29:39
  flex that's that's going on. And to support a lot of these
• 29:42
  restaurants at the top end, it's also a lot of tourism.
• 29:45
  You have food tourists that are coming in and people from other
• 29:47
  countries that are supporting a lot of that top end restaurant,
• 29:50
  which we don't have in other cities as much, right?
• 29:54
  New York is probably the best example.
• 29:55
  There's 8.3 million people that live in New York City proper.
• 29:58
  Right. And and it and it's condensed
• 30:00
  and they will find their way to the best restaurant and there's
• 30:03
  money, right. So if this Dallas Stock Exchange
• 30:07
  happens, the person who wrote the article, Andrew Chuck, shout
• 30:10
  out to Andrew Chuck. What he said is, will this
• 30:13
  allow, and I'm paraphrasing something like, will this allow
• 30:16
  the resurgence of the fine dining scene that didn't exist
• 30:19
  in Dallas at a certain point that I think a lot of people
• 30:22
  don't know existed? So I would say before 2014
• 30:27
  fifteen, the Dallas dining scene had a different dining scene
• 30:30
  than it does now, and it was shaped very differently.
• 30:34
  So I'll, I'll, I'll give people a little bit of context.
• 30:36
  The three chefs that that he referenced in that article, I
• 30:39
  want to say were Bruno myself at the Pyramid at the time doing
• 30:45
  tasting menu, Bruno doing tasting menu at the mansion.
• 30:47
  John, maybe not John. Maybe it was Matt doing FT 33
• 30:50
  and Anthony Bombacci. So Anthony Bombacci is also
• 30:53
  another case in point chef that people in Dallas don't know.
• 30:56
  So I'm going to I want to make sure I give him his his flowers
• 30:59
  here on the podcast. So Anthony came from Spain.
• 31:02
  He had his namesake restaurant Bombacci inside the Ritz Carlton
• 31:05
  in Barcelona. He was coming up in that era of,
• 31:08
  of Ferran and the Roka brothers and you know, Mugaritz and
• 31:13
  Arzak, he was coming up with them as peers at that time in
• 31:17
  Spain. He comes to, to Dallas to do his
• 31:19
  thing at, at Nana, not Nona Nana, Nana.
• 31:24
  And he was the first one doing that molecular gastronomy food
• 31:28
  before anyone even knew what it was he was doing that he was
• 31:32
  doing tasting menu. He was way ahead of his time at
• 31:37
  at that point in time in the city, which he had aces coming
• 31:41
  through his kitchen at that time.
• 31:42
  So you had Misty Norris coming through there.
• 31:45
  We were talking about this Nick Gianas from Nick and Junior's
• 31:48
  Juniper and many other restaurants in Austin and
• 31:51
  Chicago. Who else?
• 31:53
  Van Camp, you said? Anthony Van Camp So and I'm I
• 31:56
  don't and I apologize. I'm probably missing some people
• 31:58
  that came through that kitchen, but he had some killers coming
• 32:01
  out of that. Kitchen, Justin Holt.
• 32:04
  Right. So Anthony was the guy that was
• 32:06
  doing it. And then you had, of course you
• 32:08
  had Steven Pyles and Dean doing their thing.
• 32:11
  But while all this is happening, of course I had, I had my aces
• 32:14
  in my kitchen. So again, going back to when we
• 32:17
  were pyramid only tasting menu, I had Maggie Huffis, my pastry
• 32:20
  chef who's now went to FT-33 Lucia, Julio Peraza, who's not
• 32:25
  in Dallas anymore, but he was the chef at Madrina when it
• 32:28
  opened up and he was like the first one doing that really high
• 32:31
  end Mexican tasting menu stuff. Here he was, he was my sous chef
• 32:35
  at the time. I'm trying to think there's
• 32:37
  more. Eric Martine, who's in San
• 32:39
  Francisco now at the One Hotel and he has a terrine restaurant.
• 32:44
  Sarah Chastain, who was the chef at the Grape at one point.
• 32:48
  She had a great trajectory, extremely talented chef as well.
• 32:51
  I think she was like culture maps best new chef at one point.
• 32:54
  So all these people are in my kitchen.
• 32:55
  A couple of others shout out if I forgot you, by the way 'cause
• 32:58
  I don't wanna get those fucking nasty.
• 33:00
  Like what about me? What about me, motherfucker?
• 33:02
  So anyway, we had our crew. Stephen Pyles had Matt
• 33:05
  McAllister in his kitchen. John Tazar was popping off at
• 33:09
  the same time. Bruno had his guys in the
• 33:11
  kitchen. And I remember thinking back
• 33:13
  then I was like, it's gonna be interesting when these people in
• 33:15
  my kitchen now become the chefs that are running Dallas, right?
• 33:18
  The Misty's are now running things and all these other
• 33:20
  people. But what people don't understand
• 33:21
  is that we were doing tasting menus back then and it just kind
• 33:24
  of all disappeared. The mansion, I don't know if
• 33:27
  they're still doing that. I know the pyramid's not doing
• 33:29
  that. I know FT-33 doesn't exist.
• 33:32
  I know Steven Piles is not doing his thing anymore from a tasting
• 33:35
  menu standpoint. The French room at the time.
• 33:38
  I don't even know what they're up to these days.
• 33:40
  Don't think it's doing anything. And So what I'm trying to say is
• 33:42
  like there was a certain point where it just kind of all
• 33:46
  disappeared at once. It vanished and you could
• 33:48
  probably pinpoint it to about the 2014 fifteen, like Dallas
• 33:53
  just it went away and then what happened?
• 33:56
  And then we kind of forgot like we have like amnesia about this,
• 34:00
  this era. I mean, the person that I was
• 34:01
  taking over for at Pyramid, Jean Lafont, was like one of the best
• 34:06
  French chefs that Dallas ever had.
• 34:08
  Everyone in there like the the crew that I inherited, like they
• 34:12
  knew how to make a souffle with their eyes closed and patea and
• 34:14
  crude and all this crazy shit is like, because he was teaching
• 34:18
  them that French technique that just was like people didn't even
• 34:22
  know existed. And you don't see it and people
• 34:25
  don't talk about it. Now, could it, could it come
• 34:27
  back? And I think, I don't know.
• 34:29
  I think that's The thing is I don't know.
• 34:30
  I know from my standpoint, the reason I left Alice is because I
• 34:34
  didn't think it was going to support that anymore.
• 34:36
  Yeah. Yeah, there is, there's.
• 34:38
  So if you think about it, I mean, Omakase I think is just a
• 34:43
  different game. It's a different.
• 34:45
  Animal lightning in a bottle, baby.
• 34:46
  Yeah, and lightning in a bottle. We.
• 34:48
  We. Don't have a non omakase tasting
• 34:51
  menu, only restaurant after Savage closes.
• 34:54
  It was a very short run. I went there a couple times.
• 34:57
  Casey LaRue runs it. What's it called?
• 35:01
  It's called. Savage.
• 35:02
  Savage. Is it still open?
• 35:03
  He's about to close. It is, but he's going to close
• 35:05
  at the end of March. It's just not working now.
• 35:07
  Yeah, it is. And so after that closes, we
• 35:09
  will again go back to 0 tasting menu only spots.
• 35:13
  And again, you guys have mentioned that not only about
• 35:16
  tasting menus, but you know, I think it's a sign of, of living
• 35:19
  in modern dining times to at least have one successful
• 35:22
  concept like that in your city. You.
• 35:24
  Know, and I think from from a diner standpoint, specifically
• 35:26
  from you right, like if you the best way to experience the chefs
• 35:31
  at its peak, their creativity, what inspires them, who they
• 35:35
  want to be, it's through a tasting menu.
• 35:38
  And and and I definitely understand that perspective and
• 35:41
  same as a chef, I want I want I want Wuss Taylor to be in
• 35:44
  Dallas. You know, I want 2 mission star
• 35:46
  restaurant. I want Christoph to be able to
• 35:49
  open his, you know, A20 seat restaurant one day and yeah, and
• 35:52
  do his thing so I can taste his food selfishly, right.
• 35:56
  And maybe, you know, maybe it's maybe it's in the future, maybe
• 35:58
  it's in the cards. You know, I think you said
• 36:01
  everything kind of just like trickled off COVID happened.
• 36:05
  I think around the same time all the farms kind of dissipated
• 36:08
  from Dallas. You know I.
• 36:14
  Don't I don't know where let's be honest, a lot of cities and
• 36:16
  Dallas isn't unique in this area, but you know, since we're
• 36:19
  talking about there's a lot of other cities like this.
• 36:22
  It's they're gonna reward restaurant based on the whole
• 36:25
  and I and I think we're we're we're talking about the food
• 36:28
  right now. But but a lot of people, you
• 36:30
  have to look at the entire operation, the service, the
• 36:34
  ambiance was my was my valet correct.
• 36:38
  You know, was parking difficult? Like, do you have to drive
• 36:43
  around the block 2020 minutes before you find somewhere to
• 36:45
  park? Right.
• 36:48
  Like, do they know who I am? Did they make me feel like I was
• 36:50
  important? And was the food good?
• 36:52
  But like, yeah, but a a a food at 10 and everything else at A1
• 36:57
  doesn't make a great restaurant. Yeah.
• 37:02
  And Dallas, I will say delivers service.
• 37:05
  I I think of of of the Texas cities, I think Dallas probably
• 37:08
  has the best. Service that is the expectation.
• 37:10
  The expectation is like it's warm, it's hospitable, it's
• 37:15
  prompt. I, I think that the, the diner
• 37:19
  in from, from what I'm familiar with, they definitely expect
• 37:24
  that and they expect it to be great, you know?
• 37:26
  Yeah, they expect you to remember them.
• 37:27
  They want you to, that's why they're there, right?
• 37:29
  They want to feel special. And our job really is to to do
• 37:33
  that to make them feel special. Yeah, Yeah, you're right.
• 37:35
  And I think that one of the education points, well, I, I
• 37:39
  think a lot of people are skeptical whether or not
• 37:41
  Michelin rewards service, but they do claim to only evaluate 5
• 37:47
  criteria, all having to do with food when evaluating for
• 37:51
  Michelin stars. And so I think that's one of the
• 37:54
  things you heard a lot from the misunderstanding and
• 37:57
  misinformation of really grasping Michelin was, you know,
• 38:01
  people, you know, if they had bad service at Mamani, they'd be
• 38:05
  like, well, that's not a Michelin starred restaurant.
• 38:07
  Well, it's like, well, that's not how they evaluate, you know,
• 38:10
  they're looking at the food. So there was a there was some
• 38:14
  education points there as well. So I mean, and and I want to say
• 38:18
  that Mamani is I think the best restaurant in the city, right?
• 38:21
  Like I agree. And.
• 38:22
  Let's be frank, they have the best people.
• 38:24
  They've done a great job cultivating that.
• 38:27
  I told that to Andre. Those like that restaurant
• 38:30
  group, those guys have the runway to do what they would
• 38:32
  like. They understand the product that
• 38:35
  they're selling the consumer and they're doing a fantastic job at
• 38:39
  it. And I think their bread, their
• 38:41
  bakery that they're open beside is going to crush and they're
• 38:45
  making their bread is so delicious.
• 38:48
  And I think it's things like that and seeing what people like
• 38:52
  that do and what restaurant tours like that do open up the
• 38:56
  window and the door for creativity of not just again, a
• 39:01
  tasting menu to do a tasting menu, but what can we do that's
• 39:04
  going to be profitable? It's going to fill the seats.
• 39:08
  What location does that make sense in where people are
• 39:11
  actually going to come in? Square footage, price per square
• 39:13
  footage. How does that make sense?
• 39:15
  And and then on top of that, deliver an amazing experience,
• 39:19
  not just food, not just service, the whole thing.
• 39:22
  Yeah, and I think, I think the Bread Club, which is what is, it
• 39:27
  feels like home Hospitality is the group that Namo and Mom and
• 39:32
  I are both under and they're opening a bread spot.
• 39:36
  So the guy who's been making their bread, they have a little,
• 39:39
  they have a bread service, I think it's called the Bread We
• 39:41
  Make. And it's like 15 bucks and you
• 39:43
  get a sprouted quinoa, a sourdough loaf and some
• 39:47
  focaccia. It's very good.
• 39:50
  And so now they have a restaurant like that or sorry, a
• 39:53
  bread place that they're opening.
• 39:54
  And I think that sometimes people don't think of the
• 39:57
  trickle down effect when it comes to really high end fine
• 40:00
  dining restaurants. And I'm not saying that's what
• 40:02
  Mamedi is, but they're a nice restaurant.
• 40:04
  But in places like New York and Chicago and San Francisco,
• 40:08
  you'll get these really incredible restaurants with two
• 40:12
  or three Michelin stars. Either the pastry chef or one of
• 40:16
  the line cooks or, you know, the sous chef will be like, I'm sick
• 40:20
  of fine dining. I want to open up a pastry shop
• 40:22
  or I'm sick of fine dining. I want to do like a little
• 40:25
  sandwich place. And right now, the two hottest
• 40:28
  places as far as sandwiches and pizza in New York City, our
• 40:32
  series, and I can't remember the name of the sandwich shop, but
• 40:35
  they're two alums from 11 Madison Park and so.
• 40:39
  They're making pies like. It's funny, I'm in.
• 40:41
  I'm in a group chat with a bunch of chefs and they're like, where
• 40:43
  should we go? And they're like pizza spot.
• 40:46
  Like no one said these Michelin, they're like the pizza.
• 40:48
  Spot Why are new friends doing a pizza?
• 40:50
  Spot and yeah and yeah in in San Francisco there's a bird or
• 40:54
  sorry a bird song, which is a two star and they have a casual
• 40:58
  spot called Bird Box and it's an incredible chicken sandwich.
• 41:02
  So to have that sort of trickle down effect and have that level
• 41:08
  of technique and execution that you'll find in the highest level
• 41:12
  fine dining kitchens, trickle down into a bread place or a
• 41:16
  pastry shop or a little diner, just a casual little diner
• 41:21
  that's really healthy for the development of a food scene.
• 41:26
  And I think I think Dallas could.
• 41:27
  Use more of that. It's also healthy when you when
• 41:30
  you go to cities like New York or San Francisco, there's a
• 41:32
  frame of reference from the culinary standpoint, but also
• 41:37
  from the diner standpoint. Like they get like they, they
• 41:39
  know they grew up even they may have never eaten at 11 Madison
• 41:43
  or per SE, but they know what it is.
• 41:46
  And cooks have gone through there that have gone on and now
• 41:48
  worked at other restaurants where in many other cities that
• 41:51
  don't have that one temple of gastronomy, where there was the
• 41:55
  trickle down effect like you were talking about.
• 41:57
  Well, when you're starting out and you say, OK, let's, let's
• 42:01
  build it. Let's let's become the new
• 42:03
  temple of gastronomy and yeah, the secondary market, whatever
• 42:07
  secondary market we're talking about, that's not, you know, New
• 42:09
  York or LA or San Francisco or Chicago.
• 42:12
  Everyone else is really a secondary market really.
• 42:16
  And and if you're sinking, you're going to be the one that
• 42:18
  becomes the new king or queen of the city.
• 42:21
  And you say, I want to build this.
• 42:22
  Well, maybe you have the talent, but that doesn't mean that the
• 42:25
  talent exists at all levels below.
• 42:27
  And it also doesn't mean that the demand is there for it,
• 42:30
  because if the demand was there, those restaurants would exist.
• 42:34
  Yeah, true. That is very true.
• 42:37
  Yeah, well, you know, we were talking a good example in
• 42:40
  Dallas. If if, if you have a a tasty
• 42:44
  menu only restaurant and it does well, there's some entrepreneur
• 42:50
  out there and a chef that are gonna team up and say we could
• 42:52
  do that too and they'll open too.
• 42:54
  And if the market supports 2, it'll support 3.
• 42:57
  And if it could support three, someone's gonna try for four.
• 43:00
  But if 4 doesn't go, no one's trying for four for a while,
• 43:03
  right? Because we know, OK, the sweet
• 43:04
  spot is about three of those restaurants that could support
• 43:07
  that. But right now, I don't think
• 43:09
  we're demonstrating that we would support one.
• 43:11
  Yeah, yeah, we, you're right. And I think that, you know, I
• 43:16
  don't, I have no idea what's in the future.
• 43:18
  I'm really happy that R JS, you know, settling into his role as
• 43:21
  CDC at Cozy, but maybe one day. This this could be this could be
• 43:25
  a hot. I mean, I can't drop names, but
• 43:27
  I do know something that's that's I feel a storm, a Brewin,
• 43:30
  you know, I know there's something coming down the
• 43:32
  pipeline and and it'll be it'll be good for for this part of the
• 43:37
  conversation. Right.
• 43:38
  Yeah, cool. Yeah, I, I think it would just
• 43:40
  take, you know, two guys like like Brandon and Henry, you
• 43:44
  know, as, as owners who understand how to really hit the
• 43:48
  promotion, built the brand, really understand how to market
• 43:52
  this place. And then a chef that's just, you
• 43:54
  know, comfortable doing his own thing.
• 43:57
  And man, if we can get one of those places.
• 43:58
  Well, here's something to think about.
• 44:00
  The talent already exists here, by the way.
• 44:01
  It does exist here because because Bruno or Anthony, who's
• 44:07
  still in Dallas. I, I think I haven't talked him
• 44:09
  a while, but I'm pretty sure he's still in Dallas.
• 44:12
  RJ yourself, there's other junior Borges, there's chefs
• 44:17
  here in town that can pull it off.
• 44:19
  The, the talent is here. Misty Norris.
• 44:22
  You don't think Misty could do it?
• 44:24
  You know, money's no object Like she could do that.
• 44:27
  The talent is here. The question is it, it's more
• 44:30
  than just talent. It's the support of the
• 44:32
  community. It's also the, the, the capital
• 44:34
  resources. Do you have, you know, $20
• 44:36
  million to invest in this restaurant?
• 44:38
  Because it's gonna take, you know, 8 million to build, but we
• 44:40
  need a cushion because we might not make any money for a few
• 44:43
  years. I mean, the restaurant business
• 44:45
  is so hard, right? Like everybody, every, every,
• 44:48
  every real investor knows, I would say the majority of, of
• 44:52
  investors, they don't put their money in restaurants.
• 44:54
  They know they're, it's, it's not a, it's not a great positive
• 44:58
  cash flow business. That's why I just eat.
• 45:02
  Yeah, I know that's what you just eat, but it but but it is a
• 45:04
  chef's job to figure it out. Right, I'll, I'll tell you this,
• 45:06
  this is funny. I probably, I don't know if I've
• 45:09
  told you this, but if I haven't, some billionaire reached out to
• 45:12
  me about opening up a, a, a a restaurant.
• 45:17
  And I was like, oh, fuck, big name.
• 45:18
  Like if I said the name like people.
• 45:20
  Oh and we got connected and I reached out like hey cuz I was
• 45:25
  talking about a Mexican steakhouse and like I want to
• 45:27
  open up a Mexican steakhouse like I truly do.
• 45:28
  That's kind of that's kind of a perfect concept.
• 45:30
  Like, like I think I would, I, I want it, I, I think it would
• 45:33
  make money. I also would want to eat that
• 45:35
  every day because that's what I like.
• 45:36
  I like steak, I love Mexican food and I like tequila.
• 45:39
  So it's like, it's my sweet spot.
• 45:41
  I also love Italian food as well.
• 45:42
  But anyway, so Long story short, this guy reaches out and I still
• 45:45
  like, hey, you want to open up a Mexican steakhouse?
• 45:47
  Let me know. And he said, Andre, there's a
• 45:49
  reason I'm a billionaire. I don't invest in restaurants,
• 45:53
  right? He's smart.
• 45:54
  Yeah. Smart billionaire, you put you
• 45:56
  put the money there if you are. You just don't want it back for
• 46:00
  some reason. Yeah, you know?
• 46:02
  Yeah. And those people are out there,
• 46:03
  right? Action projects, tax write off,
• 46:05
  there's all kinds of stuff. Yeah, Real estate, you know,
• 46:09
  maybe it adds value to the realization.
• 46:10
  Yeah. But yeah, it's the, the
• 46:12
  restaurant business and I and I think that's the key for the
• 46:15
  audience listening. The majority of the audience is
• 46:17
  chefs and cooks. It's a restaurant business first
• 46:20
  and foremost. It has to be, it has to be a
• 46:22
  business 1st. And if you think you're going in
• 46:25
  and we could use the French Laundry example as it took
• 46:28
  Thomas what 30 years is, is French Laundry 30 years right
• 46:32
  now? Yeah, I have a wait.
• 46:33
  No, no. NO253025 at least 25 I have.
• 46:36
  Two of the close friends at my house and it says like I think
• 46:39
  25 on there the 25 year anniversary.
• 46:41
  Yeah, long time. Long time he didn't he didn't
• 46:44
  get he didn't get there overnight.
• 46:47
  It was a slow grind. He had to write many cookbooks.
• 46:50
  He had to win many awards. It it wasn't a the, the, the,
• 46:56
  the legend that it is today. And, and so if you go and work
• 46:59
  there today and say I'm going to go work at the French Laundry
• 47:02
  and I'm going to go open the French Laundry after I've worked
• 47:04
  there for two years, like, no, you ain't.
• 47:05
  It doesn't work that way. Like Thomas was a grinder for
• 47:09
  those years, trying to build that into what it is now.
• 47:12
  It doesn't just happen overnight.
• 47:14
  No, a lot, you know, a lot of a lot of luck timing location,
• 47:18
  right and some of that falls into it as well.
• 47:20
  Certainly. Yeah, you know, having having
• 47:22
  space to be able to buy the land across from you and grow your
• 47:24
  own farm and have it change the way that your restaurant, right,
• 47:28
  adaptation. Yeah, and and you got to
• 47:30
  remember he did take it over from from some people before,
• 47:33
  but the idea of taking on a restaurant in the 90s in
• 47:36
  Yountville, it's crazy, which is like an over an hour drive from
• 47:39
  San Francisco that. Feels terrifying.
• 47:41
  That's why I say luck. Like, because if the wine
• 47:43
  industry doesn't move me, Yountville, the French Laundry
• 47:45
  doesn't exist. You know how to cook.
• 47:47
  That's not the problem. The problem is getting your team
• 47:50
  to do what you want when you want it.
• 47:52
  That's leadership. My book, Culinary Leadership
• 47:55
  Fundamentals, breaks down exactly how to run a kitchen
• 47:57
  without losing your mind. Stop yelling.
• 47:59
  Start leading. Get the book at Chefs psa.com.
• 48:01
  I think our, the, at the end of the day, it's you, you Andre,
• 48:07
  you know, we were talking about it earlier, like any chef in, in
• 48:10
  this city specifically anywhere, right?
• 48:13
  Whatever you, you know, you get brought on to do this restaurant
• 48:16
  again, this business is so hard. Anything that you get brought on
• 48:19
  to do as an executive chef, your job is to, to find that middle
• 48:22
  ground of what do what, what does the diner want and what
• 48:25
  does the owner want? Right, 'cause sometimes those
• 48:27
  things are off and try your best to make that as as great as you
• 48:31
  can and deliver an amazing product for, for the guests.
• 48:36
  And I think if we did a better job of that in our community,
• 48:40
  just I'm not, there's a lot of people that do a really good
• 48:43
  job. But I think if we had more
• 48:46
  people just looking at it through that lens and looking it
• 48:48
  through a owner lens and getting more people in the door and just
• 48:50
  being proud of everything that they put on a plate, whether
• 48:53
  that's a cheeseburger or whether that's, you know, a, a poached
• 48:57
  lobster with, you know, burnt orange hollandaise sauce, right?
• 49:02
  That would help us move forward. Is that on your brunch menu?
• 49:05
  It's not, but I have done a lobster tail and some kind of
• 49:08
  smoked hollandaise before. What are you looking for when
• 49:09
  you go? Because you've even had so many
• 49:12
  great restaurants. What are you, what are you
• 49:13
  looking for? What's exciting you right now?
• 49:15
  And I'm curious, I'm curious, without getting yourself in
• 49:20
  trouble, could you name some of your best dining experiences
• 49:22
  without you know? Yeah, yeah, friends.
• 49:26
  No, that's, that's a really good question.
• 49:30
  And I don't know if I fully know the answer to that, but I do.
• 49:38
  So I, I think all diners, just just people with a diner's
• 49:41
  perspective, not chefs, we go through evolutions of what we
• 49:45
  like, what we understand. And as you learn more about food
• 49:50
  and how to cook and you understand ingredients and
• 49:53
  technique and trends, I think your lens changes over time.
• 49:58
  And I think I'm just starting to come out of this very in the now
• 50:05
  trendy kind of what's happening in this moment phase because,
• 50:09
  you know, you go to some great restaurants around the country
• 50:11
  right now and I think places like Chef's Table, Chef's Table
• 50:14
  at Brooklyn Fair in New York City jaunt, you know, what are
• 50:21
  some other really hot in places right now?
• 50:23
  Gosh, I'm just blanking on names.
• 50:25
  But. And Oreo's always hot.
• 50:26
  Yeah, Oreo, Cato, you know Somni there.
• 50:30
  There's just a lot of places right now that are doing a lot
• 50:32
  of the same stuff, a lot of the same style of menus.
• 50:37
  What do you mean? When you say style of menu.
• 50:39
  So. 'Cause I would argue Sam.
• 50:41
  No idea what Sammy's doing. So, so I think that OK, when you
• 50:44
  when you get a cristade or a tartlet right with something in
• 50:48
  it, whether it's a. Tart.
• 50:49
  Or or fish and then what? A little fried, it looks like
• 50:53
  hay. It's like crispy leeks, you know
• 50:55
  what I mean? Little like Julianne leeks that
• 50:57
  are fried and put on. Perfectly fried.
• 50:59
  Perfectly. Fried a little Sancho leaf on
• 51:03
  top of that little 6 leaflet, you know what I mean?
• 51:06
  Like. Or like a a plate with like
• 51:08
  barley with a piece of curled up cramp paper with exactly on top
• 51:11
  of it. Split sauces, so like a cream
• 51:14
  sauce with like dill oil or chive oil or something like
• 51:16
  that, like just to split the sauce.
• 51:18
  Like there, there are just some trends that are happening.
• 51:20
  I love that stuff. It's delicious.
• 51:22
  I really like it but I wonder I I've started to have a shift
• 51:25
  mentally lately. Like is that really what I'm
• 51:29
  after? And I don't know, I'm still.
• 51:30
  Evolving in that way, it's the playbook.
• 51:32
  Yeah, it's the playbook. It's the playbook and, and I,
• 51:35
  and I think, you know, going back to what I was saying
• 51:36
  earlier is 20 years ago we weren't doing that.
• 51:42
  And I'm not saying that what we were doing 20 years ago is
• 51:44
  better that that's not what I mean.
• 51:45
  But what I am saying is that we got to this point where there is
• 51:49
  a, there is a playbook. And if you want to play at the
• 51:51
  top end, you're like, well, what does the top end do?
• 51:54
  Split sauces, You know, let's serve it on some grain.
• 51:56
  Let's have the mini tart. Let's have the, the round thing
• 51:59
  that's fried with shaped truffles on top.
• 52:01
  Let's make sure we have this thing with a big canal of
• 52:03
  caviar. It's predictable.
• 52:05
  Put in a mold, make sure it has a tweel like it's, it's
• 52:09
  predictable. And so my thing is like, well,
• 52:12
  if I showed anyone a mini tart right now and I said, what
• 52:15
  restaurant is that? Would you be able to fucking
• 52:18
  guess? No, you wouldn't because the,
• 52:20
  the, the playbook it, it's it's, it's ubiquitous.
• 52:24
  So then my question becomes like, if you're an exceptional
• 52:26
  restaurant service, the valet is great, the manager's great, the
• 52:31
  uniforms are perfect, the music is on and they got, they got
• 52:35
  only built for Cuban links banging.
• 52:37
  It's the greatest rap album ever anyway.
• 52:41
  But everything, by the way, I'm joking, it is the greatest rap
• 52:43
  album, but you don't want to play that in the best
• 52:45
  restaurant. But what, what I'm saying is
• 52:47
  like you, you, everything is just banging.
• 52:49
  And then you know what? They're going to serve you food
• 52:50
  that's delicious, but it, it is truly tied to the identity of
• 52:54
  the chef. And they're doing like they're
• 52:56
  saying, you know what, it's going to be 7 courses or it's
• 52:58
  gonna be 6 or whatever. Why can't that be the best
• 53:02
  restaurant in the world? Look at what Ichibarri's doing.
• 53:04
  And I think they're the best example of someone coloring
• 53:07
  outside the lines and saying we're gonna do what the fuck we
• 53:09
  do and we're gonna make delicious food.
• 53:12
  It's a steakhouse and it's the best restaurant in the world.
• 53:15
  And they're, they're marching to the beat of their own drum.
• 53:17
  They're not playing. I bet you, I don't know.
• 53:19
  I haven't Betchibar. But do they have tarts?
• 53:23
  Right. I I hope they don't.
• 53:25
  Exactly. And and that's my point is why
• 53:27
  can't you just make delicious food, serve it in a way that is
• 53:33
  worth that experience, but make delicious food the way that you
• 53:37
  think delicious food to be, not because you're playing the game.
• 53:40
  Yeah. No, no, no, totally agree.
• 53:42
  I think that's where the shift is happening right now.
• 53:44
  I'm in a phase where I don't really know what sort of my
• 53:49
  preference will evolve toward. I know I'm going to La Tellier
• 53:52
  and Rubichon for in Vegas for my birthday, and I think that'll
• 53:56
  open my eyes a bit because it's a lot more classic in style.
• 53:59
  But to answer your question earlier, I think the best meal
• 54:04
  I've had in the past year is probably Emeril's in New
• 54:09
  Orleans. They got two stars in the
• 54:13
  inaugural guide that came to the Southeast.
• 54:18
  New Orleans got three one star spots and Emeralds was the only
• 54:22
  two star. And it's incredible.
• 54:25
  Yeah, it's amazing. And and the cool thing is, yes,
• 54:28
  they get to play. They get to run the playbook.
• 54:31
  OK. But the unique thing is, is that
• 54:33
  there are so many classic dishes in Louisiana that they can build
• 54:39
  a never ending tasting menu inspired by Louisiana cuisine.
• 54:43
  I won't, sorry. I mean, they have Trout
• 54:45
  Almendine on the menu, they have a little crustad that holds BBQ
• 54:50
  shrimp. They so.
• 54:53
  Their identity is tied to. It their identity is tied to
• 54:55
  that, that it can run the playbook.
• 54:57
  So it still has a very unique, very personal thumbprint to what
• 55:01
  they're. Doing and and I wonder and
• 55:03
  that's such a like when I, when I look at emeralds, I'm just
• 55:06
  like, that's awesome because it's like French laundry at this
• 55:10
  point. It's a beautiful story, right?
• 55:11
  Emeril is the legend. He's 22 and he ungodly talented,
• 55:16
  right? And I he's very smart, right?
• 55:20
  He's not over complicating things.
• 55:21
  He gets the mission holding this legacy in his hands.
• 55:26
  Fine dining, high level food executed right, right.
• 55:29
  There's bread and things are beautiful and you pouring all
• 55:32
  these sauces, but it probably I haven't been you can you can
• 55:35
  attest to this or it tastes like New Orleans and and and there's
• 55:39
  such a beautiful story there. I wonder if there is no story
• 55:42
  and if it's not Emeril's. Do they have two stars?
• 55:45
  And so we'll never know the answer to that, but.
• 55:46
  Yeah, we won't, but yeah, it's an exceptional experience.
• 55:50
  And so then you take a place a lot like that chef's table at
• 55:53
  Brooklyn Fair in Manhattan, which is incredible.
• 55:58
  They're running the playbook, but I don't know if they
• 56:00
  necessarily have a very unique style like Emeril's does.
• 56:06
  And I wonder if I'm sorting, or if if I wonder if I'm starting
• 56:09
  to gravitate towards places with a little more unique identity
• 56:15
  and less of just a generic playbook.
• 56:17
  And by the way, tarts are little tarts are delicious.
• 56:19
  They're great. They're good.
• 56:19
  Like, like, I'm not knocking it, like they are delicious.
• 56:21
  They're amazing. It's it's all delicious food.
• 56:23
  What I'm saying is, like, in order to be iconic, Yeah, to be
• 56:27
  the next elbulli, French Laundry, though, that level of
• 56:33
  restaurant, the ones that everyone knows for the next 20
• 56:36
  years after they're gone, the next Paul Bokus, Like the the
• 56:40
  food at Paul Bokus does not look like the food at the French
• 56:42
  Laundry, right? Yeah.
• 56:44
  The food at La Bernadin doesn't look like, you know, EMP.
• 56:48
  They all have a very unique style and identity.
• 56:50
  And I, I think that's what makes them iconic is that they
• 56:54
  establish a standard that everyone copies.
• 56:56
  And I think if you are going to be iconic, you cannot have, it
• 57:00
  cannot be a variation or derivative of a different type
• 57:04
  of restaurant. It has to be and it and it.
• 57:07
  And it has to be delicious. It has to be delicious, right?
• 57:10
  It's, it's funny, 'cause Jean George in New York City is not
• 57:13
  the hot spot anymore. But but they're the, I mean,
• 57:18
  it's well, when I say it's not the hot spot, it's because it's
• 57:20
  still booked. But everyone in there is over
• 57:22
  50. They got a full dining.
• 57:24
  Room great. And where they're getting their
• 57:26
  younger demographic is the Chez Margot, right, their private
• 57:28
  club that they opened how long ago?
• 57:30
  Yeah. And, and when you go there, you
• 57:33
  are getting absolutely delicious food.
• 57:35
  The egg toast is probably one of the five best things I've ever
• 57:39
  eaten. The caviar egg, the, what else,
• 57:42
  chocolate lava cake. He invented that and like to get
• 57:46
  that at the end of the menu is just incredible.
• 57:48
  So I think there's a lot to be said for bottom line.
• 57:52
  The food has to be delicious in a lot of places that you go to.
• 57:56
  You spend 500 bucks on a three star tasting menu.
• 57:58
  And yeah, where was all the flavor?
• 58:02
  You have diarrhea afterwards. I started a three mission star
• 58:06
  restaurant for a couple weeks and many years ago and I got to
• 58:10
  eat the whole menu like in the back of the kitchen after like I
• 58:12
  made some pasta or something. It was, it was blown away how
• 58:15
  like this isn't delicious. It's good, it's cool, but it's
• 58:21
  not like delicious. Like, I don't want to come back
• 58:23
  and eat it again, you know? And and, and that's the point is
• 58:26
  like you could always add a new magic trick no one's ever seen
• 58:30
  before. But once everyone knows the
• 58:31
  magic trick, what are you? What are you doing?
• 58:35
  Bring me the egg toast. Right.
• 58:36
  Yeah. And it's hard to continue to
• 58:38
  push creativity. That's why you don't see it,
• 58:39
  right? There's there's one Alinea and.
• 58:43
  I I I will take delicious over creativity any day, any day of
• 58:47
  the week. I'll take like I I I am to the
• 58:49
  point where you don't need to impress me.
• 58:52
  I what will impress me more is if it tastes good.
• 58:56
  That will impress me more than oh I made this fucking twill.
• 59:00
  Great. How does the twill?
• 59:02
  Does the twill have flavor? What does it taste like?
• 59:04
  Flour 10. Percent of the time twills have
• 59:06
  any flavor and. And it's the technique straight
• 59:08
  right back to Mamani delicious technique is done right, right,
• 59:12
  right. And it's A and people might look
• 59:14
  at it and like it's just a veal cordon Bleu.
• 59:17
  It's it's perfect. Chef's sauce work is perfect.
• 59:22
  And and that's the thing, like sauce work.
• 59:24
  Like can you, can you make a delicious sauce?
• 59:26
  Well, can you cook the meat right?
• 59:27
  Yeah. And you're already probably
• 59:29
  getting the best view, right? They're cooking it in a cast
• 59:32
  iron. They're not deep frying it,
• 59:33
  right? Yeah.
• 59:34
  Most people would would deep fry it, use their pants here.
• 59:37
  Yeah. I would imagine it's clarified
• 59:39
  butter or something delicious. Right?
• 59:41
  So they're doing all the little things, right?
• 59:43
  Yeah. What is, let me ask you,
• 59:46
  hypothetical? You have two dishes, right?
• 59:50
  They're both beautiful. 1 is more delicious, but then you
• 59:54
  find out that that one that's more delicious use potato
• 59:57
  pearls, freeze dried potato pearls to make their gnocchi or
• 1:00:00
  their palm puree, right? And maybe they bought pre made
• 1:00:05
  demigloss because they don't have space in their kitchen to
• 1:00:09
  to to make it. Does it change your perspective
• 1:00:11
  of that finished dish knowing that it wasn't 100% made from
• 1:00:14
  scratch as a diner? But it was more delicious.
• 1:00:16
  But it was more delicious. Oh.
• 1:00:18
  My gosh. Yeah.
• 1:00:18
  You know, I, I don't know, I mean that that's a tough one.
• 1:00:23
  I don't think so. You know, you'd be surprised.
• 1:00:26
  I don't know. You know, this is chefs.
• 1:00:28
  You walk into some kitchens. I think that the open kitchen
• 1:00:32
  concept with all the deli containers like lined up on the
• 1:00:35
  wall and they all have the, the green tape and the dates and
• 1:00:37
  everything and you're like, oh, you're doing it all from
• 1:00:39
  scratch. Blue tape.
• 1:00:40
  You go back into the prep kitchen.
• 1:00:41
  Oh, your blue tape over green. Tape.
• 1:00:43
  I mean, I'm, I'm not, but I use blue tape.
• 1:00:44
  I like green tape. He's.
• 1:00:46
  Going to get he's going to get called out.
• 1:00:48
  The comments are coming. But anyways, yeah, you go and
• 1:00:52
  you go back to the prep kitchen, you've seen a lot of bottles and
• 1:00:55
  jars that were bought from places.
• 1:00:58
  So there is this element of a lot of restaurants do buy things
• 1:01:02
  from suppliers where things are already made.
• 1:01:06
  And sometimes when you see that in the kitchen, you're like, oh,
• 1:01:08
  wait, I thought that you're doing everything from scratch.
• 1:01:11
  But. You can't sound practical.
• 1:01:12
  And you learn as you as you get further into it, what's equally
• 1:01:17
  as important as delicious food. Maybe, maybe more consistency.
• 1:01:20
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah. And sometimes those potatoes
• 1:01:23
  aren't consistent and sometimes making that beetle stock and
• 1:01:27
  isn't as consistent as you'd like for it to be.
• 1:01:29
  Right. I'm gonna go out on a limb here
• 1:01:31
  and say, like working in this industry, being a leader,
• 1:01:35
  running a kitchen, it's harder than it's ever been ever in a
• 1:01:38
  life. You can't yell at people.
• 1:01:40
  You can't scream at people. You can't call people names
• 1:01:43
  which you know I'm pro this right?
• 1:01:45
  But you should have. Shifted a change people aren't
• 1:01:49
  as good as they used to be, right?
• 1:01:51
  And I think I don't know exactly where that stems from and.
• 1:01:53
  But they know. They know more than than they've
• 1:01:55
  ever known. They have a sense of information
• 1:01:57
  is there. They know everything, yet they
• 1:01:59
  still don't know anything, right?
• 1:02:01
  And everybody already has the answer.
• 1:02:02
  So they want to move on to the next phase.
• 1:02:05
  And and that's where right all time high.
• 1:02:09
  And, and I would say that the diner demands more now than they
• 1:02:11
  have ever before as well, right? So it's like a you're, you're
• 1:02:14
  running into this point. How do you solve for it?
• 1:02:17
  Nonetheless, you got to be consistent.
• 1:02:19
  And so whatever you need to do when I was in San Francisco,
• 1:02:21
  right, I learned there I'd never worked at a restaurant that made
• 1:02:24
  bread. Oh, I lied.
• 1:02:25
  One restaurant we made our we had our own bakery was
• 1:02:26
  downstairs. Awesome bakery of the day,
• 1:02:28
  pastry shop, restaurant at night.
• 1:02:30
  It's actually the original quint space.
• 1:02:33
  And now it's it's Octavia. It's been there for a while, but
• 1:02:38
  in the in the interim I worked there.
• 1:02:39
  It was called Baker and Baker. It failed, but learned a lot of
• 1:02:42
  great lessons there. But we had a bakery other than
• 1:02:44
  that. I learned that you let the
• 1:02:47
  artisan who does that better than you do that, and you
• 1:02:49
  support that person and you sell that product and you put their
• 1:02:52
  name on your menu. You don't make bread to make
• 1:02:54
  bread. If you can make it better than
• 1:02:55
  them, you make the bread. If you can't level up, go do
• 1:02:59
  what you're good at 'cause you can't be good at everything.
• 1:03:00
  100% but a pre bought Demi. Well, I mean, a lot of
• 1:03:05
  restaurants do it. Yeah, what do you do in a 700
• 1:03:07
  square foot kitchen? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:09
  I mean, it's the reality of I can have someone do that, I can
• 1:03:13
  have someone do that, or I could get this one that I know is made
• 1:03:16
  correctly consistently and I don't have the labor for.
• 1:03:20
  It and and that's The thing is I don't think to me, I don't know
• 1:03:23
  if it makes a difference. What does it make a.
• 1:03:27
  Difference like like when you were asking like like if two
• 1:03:30
  plates are carbon copy equally delicious, but you find out that
• 1:03:33
  one has pre made product. Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  Do I care? I don't know if I do.
• 1:03:38
  We've got very good in our in our foods ecosystem of of
• 1:03:43
  creating it's free dried potatoes consistent.
• 1:03:45
  It's the same product every single time you get you.
• 1:03:47
  Get I get that pomp you're a every time I.
• 1:03:50
  Mean if you're going to Joe Robertson and you fly there from
• 1:03:52
  China and you get this thing and it's not right, can't happen.
• 1:03:56
  It cannot happen, right? Yeah.
• 1:03:58
  So how do you make sure it doesn't happen?
• 1:04:01
  True. OK.
• 1:04:01
  You gotta figure it out, right? You know my, my thing when it
• 1:04:05
  comes to food and the very hardcore truth of the matter
• 1:04:11
  that everyone needs to understand, chefs, cooks,
• 1:04:13
  diners, this is the, the hardcore truth is where you're
• 1:04:18
  at. It's going to determine the
• 1:04:19
  level of food that you could cook where you're at with the
• 1:04:21
  resources that you have. The reality in most cases, like
• 1:04:25
  it's a, it's a pretty level playing field when you get to
• 1:04:27
  the top. We only know 50 names, but
• 1:04:30
  there's about 5000 that are on that same level, but we only
• 1:04:32
  know about 50. And a lot of that has to do with
• 1:04:36
  PR, marketing, who's behind them.
• 1:04:38
  But the resources that you have, whether it's square footage of
• 1:04:43
  the kitchen, the volume that you're gonna do in the
• 1:04:45
  restaurant, the amount of cooks that you have in the kitchen,
• 1:04:47
  the how, the condition of the equipment that you're cooking
• 1:04:51
  in, the level of the cook that's working with you, that's gonna
• 1:04:54
  determine what you're going to do.
• 1:04:56
  That's gonna determine, OK, This is my playbook.
• 1:04:58
  Where a lot of chefs get tripped up is they say, Nope, I don't
• 1:05:03
  care that everything's broken. I'm making everything from
• 1:05:05
  scratch. I'm doing my food.
• 1:05:07
  And then what ends up happening is they crash service.
• 1:05:10
  They get upset that the 20 year old cook right out of culinary
• 1:05:13
  school isn't as fast as the restaurant where I used to work
• 1:05:16
  at, where everyone was a samurai, right?
• 1:05:19
  And I had I had the the Navy Seals in my kitchen.
• 1:05:21
  But this 20 year old in the middle of nowhere can't work as
• 1:05:24
  fast as those guys, right? And by the way, it's just me and
• 1:05:28
  that 20 year old cook and the other 20 year old cook where,
• 1:05:30
  where I was at, I had 30 and I and you and you get frustrated
• 1:05:35
  and then your restaurant closes and then you have a bad
• 1:05:38
  experience. And they say, you know, the food
• 1:05:39
  is really interesting, but I waited 30 minutes between
• 1:05:41
  courses, right? And you see that happen a lot.
• 1:05:44
  It's it a lot of a lot of what the chefs need to put on the
• 1:05:48
  menu has to be determined by, OK, what am I working with?
• 1:05:51
  Because that's going to determine a lot of it.
• 1:05:52
  What's the identity of this? What am I trying to accomplish?
• 1:05:55
  And the other thing I'll say when it comes to food is, and
• 1:05:57
  this is something that I say is the shortest path to get the
• 1:06:00
  most direct short path to get to the most delicious result.
• 1:06:03
  That's the way you should operate.
• 1:06:05
  Because if it's quicker for me with three people to get to get
• 1:06:11
  it this delicious with three things on the plate, because I
• 1:06:15
  only have three people and I might have to use potato pearls,
• 1:06:19
  right? And I could, I could save the
• 1:06:22
  labor on that person not picking herbs and I could save the labor
• 1:06:26
  on that person not making twills.
• 1:06:28
  And guess what, everyone, sorry, we're 86 steak.
• 1:06:30
  I didn't have time to cut it because I was too busy with the
• 1:06:33
  plushes and and punch cutting the nest Ursums.
• 1:06:36
  But they had to be right. So you, you, you get rid of all
• 1:06:39
  the frills. It's the shortest path to get to
• 1:06:40
  the most delicious result. It reminds me of the the Indiana
• 1:06:44
  Jones scene where he's he's going to fight someone who has
• 1:06:47
  the two swords and he's swinging them around and Indiana Jones
• 1:06:49
  just pulls out the gun and shoots them.
• 1:06:51
  It's like the quickest way to get the result.
• 1:06:52
  Like we're in a fight, I need to kill you.
• 1:06:55
  I'm going to pull out a gun and shoot you while you're putting
• 1:06:58
  on the show. And a lot of times chefs want to
• 1:07:00
  put out the show, but they're forgetting the the mission is,
• 1:07:04
  is it delicious? And can I execute it with these
• 1:07:07
  people? And how can I get there the
• 1:07:08
  fastest? Most.
• 1:07:09
  Efficient way being a high level chef no matter what kitchen you
• 1:07:11
  work in you've got to be able to engineer you've got to be able
• 1:07:14
  to see where things are broken and you've got to be able to
• 1:07:18
  identify that quickly you have to be able to fix that and
• 1:07:22
  you've got to be able to do all that with all the issues around
• 1:07:27
  with delivering an amazing product at the end of the day
• 1:07:29
  quickly consistently I. Would imagine that not only IQ,
• 1:07:33
  having a high IQ as a chef, but emotional intelligence has to be
• 1:07:36
  paramount. And everything, yeah.
• 1:07:38
  You learned that later. You know, I know a lot of people
• 1:07:41
  give chefs a hard time because, you know, they're, they're
• 1:07:44
  assholes, but a lot of them grow out of that because a lot of
• 1:07:48
  times that asshole face and I'm always speaking for myself,
• 1:07:50
  like, you know, I, I, I went through it when I was a younger
• 1:07:54
  chef. I, I wisened up because I wasn't
• 1:07:56
  emotionally mature yet, but the more mature I can, I was like,
• 1:07:59
  wow, what an ass. I can't believe I was that much
• 1:08:01
  of an asshole. Right.
• 1:08:03
  I'm not that person today. I'm not that same person.
• 1:08:06
  What's that expression? The same man never steps in the
• 1:08:09
  same river twice because it's no longer the same river and it's
• 1:08:12
  no longer the same man. Sounds good to me.
• 1:08:14
  Right. I'm, I'm like a walking fortune
• 1:08:17
  cookie if you haven't picked up on my Instagram page.
• 1:08:20
  But the reason I say that is like you learn that emotional
• 1:08:23
  intelligence with time, because unfortunately, when we're
• 1:08:26
  mentoring the next generation of chefs, a lot of times we're just
• 1:08:29
  mentoring them on how to cook. And sometimes like we're not
• 1:08:34
  teaching them the leadership skills and the emotional
• 1:08:36
  intelligence and all this. And then the new generation of
• 1:08:38
  cooks coming in, they don't, they don't want that and they're
• 1:08:41
  not going to put up with it. So do you think Eric, go ahead.
• 1:08:45
  No, I was going to say that. I agree.
• 1:08:48
  I agree. I think, again, I said it
• 1:08:49
  earlier, the job's harder than it's ever been, right?
• 1:08:51
  Like 20 years ago. Nobody cares.
• 1:08:54
  I can say whatever I want, however I want, whenever I want.
• 1:08:57
  And again, I, I, I, I like where we are, but it takes adapting
• 1:09:03
  and it takes you have to understand more of what it is
• 1:09:08
  that you're trying to accomplish and how you're gonna get there
• 1:09:10
  and how you're gonna deliver that message.
• 1:09:12
  You gotta be a fantastic leader to do something special
• 1:09:17
  nowadays. Yeah, and you were talking about
• 1:09:19
  mentorship and man, in kitchens and restaurant culture.
• 1:09:23
  I think we can see why that's so critical.
• 1:09:25
  I mean, you need mentors when you hop over to my side of
• 1:09:29
  things, you. Don't wanna fuck.
• 1:09:31
  Is it good? Like does it taste good?
• 1:09:33
  Does it taste good? But, but do we, is there space
• 1:09:39
  to kind of come under the wing of someone who's a little more
• 1:09:42
  established as someone who understands food on a dining
• 1:09:46
  level? And do we need the mentorship
• 1:09:49
  program on that side of things? And that's an honest question.
• 1:09:53
  On a dining level. Yeah, on a diner's level.
• 1:09:56
  Yeah. I mean, I I think that's
• 1:09:57
  happening in real time with influencers, yeah.
• 1:10:00
  Right. I was gonna say like back in the
• 1:10:01
  day, that's like isn't wasn't that that was a food critic,
• 1:10:03
  right? Yeah.
• 1:10:05
  It doesn't necessarily exist anymore.
• 1:10:07
  No, it's. No, it's.
• 1:10:08
  Youtubers and Instagramers and and whoever and so.
• 1:10:12
  But are we following the right people?
• 1:10:14
  Are we listening to the right voices?
• 1:10:15
  Well, no. No, I mean.
• 1:10:18
  I am I think. I think I think at large, and
• 1:10:20
  I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the general
• 1:10:22
  public. No, I think that's part of the
• 1:10:24
  problem, right? I travel to Houston a lot, like
• 1:10:26
  I said, and Houston, right, They they don't like Dallas and we
• 1:10:33
  don't like Houston and it's. Feelings mutual.
• 1:10:36
  Speak for yourself, but it's part of that.
• 1:10:39
  It's a cultural thing, right? It's, you know, there's just a
• 1:10:45
  different perception, a different way of living and a
• 1:10:47
  different way to look at things. And right, we're only 3 1/2
• 1:10:52
  hours away, but yet the culture is dramatically different.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, there are more developed restaurant scene.
• 1:10:58
  Their diners seem to get it a lot more.
• 1:11:01
  That's why a place like March, who I mean, chef would never say
• 1:11:05
  this, but you know, Felipe and his team down there are running
• 1:11:08
  a spot that's pushing for two, you know, and it's a tasting
• 1:11:12
  menu only spot that's booked every night and they're doing
• 1:11:18
  just fine. And so there's a level of
• 1:11:20
  jealousy, definitely. And they have in Houston and you
• 1:11:23
  know, to give March, you know, some insight too, right, People
• 1:11:26
  that are on March, they've got Rosie cannonball downstairs,
• 1:11:28
  which has a casual wood fire pizza joint crushing it, right.
• 1:11:34
  They have Marigold club that they just opened behind it.
• 1:11:36
  They have the cheese shop beside there.
• 1:11:37
  So they built an infrastructure in which, you know, in the, the
• 1:11:43
  people that, you know, the money behind that they own that land.
• 1:11:45
  So a little bit of a different situation and, and, and rare, I
• 1:11:49
  would say in, in, in most cases, But they have, they built the
• 1:11:53
  infrastructure to, to have March there into, you know, if they're
• 1:11:56
  slow for a little bit, they give their cooks time off.
• 1:11:59
  They, they take I think 2 weeks off every season.
• 1:12:02
  So they do three seasons a year. And but but.
• 1:12:05
  Yeah, two seasons, two seasons, a year and they give, I think
• 1:12:08
  they take like a month off. Yeah, they've built, I think 2
• 1:12:11
  of it's paid, 2 of it's maybe not.
• 1:12:12
  But they built this great infrastructure for their team
• 1:12:15
  and they're they're definitely doing it the right way.
• 1:12:17
  Let me, let me ask you a question.
• 1:12:20
  It's it's I, I don't think it's going to be the same answer, but
• 1:12:22
  I'm going to ask you two different questions.
• 1:12:24
  If you could open up any restaurant carte blanche money's
• 1:12:28
  no object. You're going to open up your
• 1:12:29
  restaurant to do whatever you want.
• 1:12:32
  And then that's question number one.
• 1:12:34
  Question number 2 is if you could, what is the the type of
• 1:12:38
  food that you go eat the most and are they the same?
• 1:12:41
  No, absolutely not. I think the first part, the
• 1:12:44
  first question is, is very layered, right?
• 1:12:50
  And in my heart and in my soul, yes, I want to cook beautiful
• 1:12:55
  tasting menu food because I want to show off that expression.
• 1:12:58
  I don't, but I, I also, you know, where, where it gets
• 1:13:02
  tricky is like, I don't want to be at the restaurant 100 hours a
• 1:13:04
  week, 0%. Do I want that in my life,
• 1:13:07
  right? I've done that.
• 1:13:08
  And, and I know in order to do that, that's what you have to
• 1:13:10
  do. And so if, if we're talking
• 1:13:14
  through that lens, it would be something fast casual, something
• 1:13:17
  that could scale, something that's a better version of
• 1:13:21
  maybe, maybe a sweet greens, right?
• 1:13:24
  I like sweet greens a lot. I think they're, they've got a
• 1:13:26
  good concept, but then they could do it better.
• 1:13:29
  I don't have the answer to that at the top of my head, but
• 1:13:31
  something I've thought about like that's what I would do.
• 1:13:33
  I would go to something like I would want to scale, go casual
• 1:13:36
  because I think that is where I'm at in my life.
• 1:13:39
  That's the way towards doing something fun, creative,
• 1:13:43
  challenging and, and pushing myself as a business person,
• 1:13:46
  right? I've been in the business for
• 1:13:47
  2223 years. If there was a world in which I
• 1:13:51
  could do a tasting menu thing and that there was longevity to
• 1:13:54
  that, that would be my answer. But there's not.
• 1:13:56
  You know, cooking is a young man's game or a young woman's
• 1:13:59
  game. It's not, it's not for older,
• 1:14:01
  right? Your back gives out, you get
• 1:14:02
  older. You can't stand behind the line
• 1:14:04
  and do that. And you can't expect somebody
• 1:14:06
  else to understand where you're coming from and to be able to
• 1:14:09
  put that food on a plate. You might find them, right?
• 1:14:11
  They they come through, but it's really hard.
• 1:14:13
  And then kind of food I like to eat.
• 1:14:16
  I like to I mean, I like both, right.
• 1:14:17
  I like if I could go to a tasty menu restaurant every six
• 1:14:20
  months, Michelin star would love to do that.
• 1:14:23
  But if casual like I'm I'm I'm hitting up my favorite
• 1:14:27
  restaurant is Mr. Max out in out in Irving, the OG spot, you
• 1:14:30
  know, like a. Whole wall What is?
• 1:14:33
  It's like a it's like a 2426 heat izakaya reservations, only
• 1:14:38
  nothing bigger than like 4-5, five or six people.
• 1:14:42
  And it's just old school. I mean, they remember you,
• 1:14:48
  they're fast, no frills. Take your take your shoes off,
• 1:14:52
  like be respectful. You can order the whole menu and
• 1:14:55
  come out like sub three sub 250 probably.
• 1:14:59
  Like it's awesome. They do a great job.
• 1:15:02
  The owners are fantastic people. But that, that's my, that's my
• 1:15:05
  personal jam. So.
• 1:15:06
  So let me ask you, since you're not a chef, I'll ask it slightly
• 1:15:08
  different. The most beautiful, creative
• 1:15:12
  dish you've ever seen, right? Do you have it?
• 1:15:17
  And then while you're thinking about that, here's Part 2.
• 1:15:20
  What's the most delicious thing you're and are they the same?
• 1:15:22
  The most delicious thing you've seen?
• 1:15:24
  That's a good question, I'm sorry.
• 1:15:25
  The most delicious thing you've eaten, and then also the most
• 1:15:28
  creative, interesting thing you've eaten.
• 1:15:29
  And are they the same dish? Wow.
• 1:15:33
  Gosh. OK, so the first thing that
• 1:15:35
  popped into my head was the raw fjord shrimps at Yorner in
• 1:15:42
  Copenhagen in a horseradish cream sauce.
• 1:15:48
  Is this the most delicious or the most creative?
• 1:15:49
  The most creative? Yeah, horseradish cream sauce
• 1:15:52
  split with dill oil. Split with dill oil.
• 1:15:55
  You had to do it, Yeah. Going right back to what we were
• 1:15:58
  talking about earlier, but it's, it's just the most creative.
• 1:16:02
  I, I, I, I think it's beautiful. You should pop up a picture
• 1:16:04
  later and look at it. It's a really beautiful dish.
• 1:16:07
  It's like real neon and just fluorescent and it's really
• 1:16:10
  cool. And I think he still has it on
• 1:16:13
  the menu. It's just something that stayed.
• 1:16:15
  It's really good. Smart should keep that.
• 1:16:18
  And then, gosh, you know what's funny is, is I'm the huge Lucia
• 1:16:24
  junkie. Love that place.
• 1:16:25
  Yeah, my favorite. What?
• 1:16:26
  What the best Jennifer and and David Ueger are doing at that
• 1:16:29
  place is exceptional. Just any pasta they make with
• 1:16:35
  like a ragu or like a hearty meat sauce.
• 1:16:39
  I, I can't think of many things that have pleased me more than
• 1:16:42
  like those pastas. You know what I mean?
• 1:16:44
  And it's crazy how you can hop around all these crazy fine
• 1:16:48
  dining spots around the globe and, and like the one thing that
• 1:16:52
  really sticks out sometimes. Comes back to comfort.
• 1:16:55
  Yeah, yeah. And and shout out to David and
• 1:16:57
  Jennifer too. Like I think about them a lot.
• 1:17:00
  These guys have dedicated their life to this business, dedicated
• 1:17:02
  their life that that restaurant is there and they're there
• 1:17:06
  every. If they're not there, the
• 1:17:08
  restaurant's not open, right? Yeah.
• 1:17:09
  David is tasting every plate that goes out that joint and
• 1:17:14
  they are world class and they don't get enough.
• 1:17:16
  He can cook like a he is a bad man and yeah, he is they now to
• 1:17:20
  make you feel special and his food is out of control.
• 1:17:23
  Some of the best food in in the world I would I would argue.
• 1:17:26
  Yeah, totally agree. And again, he's he's, he
• 1:17:29
  understands what it takes, which is like, if I'm not here, this
• 1:17:33
  pasta's not always perfectly seasoned, but if I am here, it
• 1:17:36
  is. And, you know, you got to
• 1:17:38
  dedicate your life to that. Yeah.
• 1:17:39
  There's a kudos to them. I love both of them very much.
• 1:17:42
  And the reason I ask that question is because I think we
• 1:17:45
  spent a lot of time in this conversation talking about the
• 1:17:47
  high end, but a lot of the most delicious meals that we have are
• 1:17:54
  the things that we enjoy with loved ones.
• 1:17:57
  It's the comfort food. It's, it's the Taco, It's the,
• 1:18:00
  it's the barbecue. And so when you, when you, this
• 1:18:04
  is, this is a case to be made. And that's kind of where I'm
• 1:18:05
  going with this, because I know if you asked me that question, I
• 1:18:08
  would say it might be some tacos that I've had that were
• 1:18:10
  extremely delicious, or it might be some Italian pasta that I've
• 1:18:13
  had that, you know, I love pasta, but it's going to be
• 1:18:17
  something simple. It's not going to be anything
• 1:18:18
  crazy. The best meals I've had are the
• 1:18:21
  most simple meals that you don't need a high IQ to eat to
• 1:18:26
  understand, right. But then why do we give a hard
• 1:18:30
  time to the Taco shop in Mexico that is getting a Michelin star
• 1:18:34
  or the BBQ spot? Because if it is truly about the
• 1:18:39
  food, then it's truly about the food.
• 1:18:43
  And it's truly about saying what is the most delicious thing that
• 1:18:46
  I've had? What is.
• 1:18:47
  And to a lot of people, they might say, I fucking love BBQ
• 1:18:52
  more than anything. And if I'm going to travel to
• 1:18:55
  Texas and I'm coming from Copenhagen, where should I eat?
• 1:18:59
  And they're going to open up the Michelin Guide because I'm going
• 1:19:02
  to Texas for barbecue. And they're going to say, OK,
• 1:19:05
  I'm going to go to Leroy Lewis or I'm going to go to a BBQ or
• 1:19:09
  wherever. Pecan Lodge here in Dallas,
• 1:19:12
  Franklin's, you know, Truth BBQ, there's so many that to choose
• 1:19:17
  from. So it's like, who are we to say
• 1:19:20
  that cuisine is this because it that's the point is like for
• 1:19:24
  Michelin, it means something different for everybody.
• 1:19:28
  It means something for the three star chef, the one star chef,
• 1:19:31
  the zero star chef, the city that never got Michelin to come
• 1:19:35
  look at them. To the person like yourself that
• 1:19:37
  goes and eats there and travels the world to eat at some of the
• 1:19:41
  best restaurants in the world. To the line cook that only will
• 1:19:44
  experience it through Instagram. It means something different to
• 1:19:49
  all of us To it means something completely different to all of
• 1:19:52
  us, but also means something different to the CEO and to
• 1:19:56
  their shareholders that need to make a profit and need to get
• 1:20:00
  those city deals and those state deals.
• 1:20:02
  Yeah, You know, that's, gosh, such a great point.
• 1:20:06
  Jonathan Gold, the old LA food critic.
• 1:20:10
  I remember him saying that the reason a Taco is his favorite
• 1:20:13
  food is because for every square inch of Taco, there's more
• 1:20:18
  flavor in that than anything else he can think of.
• 1:20:22
  And, you know, I, I started thinking as you were talking
• 1:20:26
  about what are the most memorable things I've eaten, and
• 1:20:28
  dude, like Qantos in Austin popped into my head.
• 1:20:31
  Yeah, to me, that's the best Taco in Texas.
• 1:20:34
  I started to think about the tostadas at Nichita.
• 1:20:38
  Yeah. And they, they do a seasonal
• 1:20:41
  tostada usually with like some sort of carrot or, or, or or
• 1:20:44
  squash root vegetable always blows me away And I am grinding
• 1:20:49
  my foot into the ground while eating that.
• 1:20:50
  I just can't believe how good it is.
• 1:20:53
  And I have had, I think more experiences like that on the
• 1:20:57
  casual end than I have it tasting menu spots.
• 1:21:03
  And it kind of, as we are talking about this, it makes me
• 1:21:07
  feel a little naive and maybe a little kind of dull, you know
• 1:21:11
  what I mean? Well, I mean that, look, we're
• 1:21:13
  not going to solve the world's problems here on this podcast.
• 1:21:17
  I mean, we're starting a lot of them though.
• 1:21:19
  But all, all all joking aside, like I, I think, and you know,
• 1:21:24
  you touched on this earlier, I think the way forward is to have
• 1:21:28
  discussion around it and to, to think about it and to understand
• 1:21:32
  that the hospitality business, it's a lot of it's BBQ, it's
• 1:21:36
  Taco shops, it's 3 Michelin star and it's all delicious.
• 1:21:40
  And if you could find a way to to to do 2 things, express
• 1:21:45
  yourself through food that is delicious regardless if it's a
• 1:21:48
  hamburger. Or shout out to NADC burger.
• 1:21:51
  Fucking some of the best burger. I haven't.
• 1:21:53
  I haven't made it, but I'm I'm. They're they're the best burger.
• 1:21:56
  Shout out to Philip Franklin Lee.
• 1:21:57
  I agree. That's the best burger smash.
• 1:22:00
  Like there's no one that and I eat I eat way too many of them.
• 1:22:03
  I'm fucking getting fat. But, but, but the point I'm
• 1:22:07
  trying to make is like, do your food excellent at the, at, at
• 1:22:10
  the, at what you're trying to accomplish, whether it's BBQ,
• 1:22:13
  whether it's 3 Michelin, like do it really well and make it
• 1:22:18
  delicious and feed people. And I promise you and, and try
• 1:22:21
  and make money doing it and stay open.
• 1:22:23
  But if you, if you, if you, if you have that as your North
• 1:22:25
  Star, like this is who we are. This is what we're trying to
• 1:22:27
  make delicious. Instead of saying I'm just going
• 1:22:30
  to take the playbook. Well, that's and that's what
• 1:22:32
  matters, right? Yeah.
• 1:22:33
  Deliciousness, consistency and success, right.
• 1:22:36
  Nobody opens a business to close it, right?
• 1:22:40
  I know you've been down in Austin for a while now, but you
• 1:22:42
  have a database or a team of of friends up here who are some
• 1:22:49
  pretty notable chefs doing some great things like who are your
• 1:22:51
  your buddies, your favorite chefs in Dallas?
• 1:22:53
  Well, you guys, we've talked about a lot of people and so I'm
• 1:22:58
  I'm going to name some people that we haven't talked about
• 1:23:00
  because I think we've given a lot of credit and flowers to
• 1:23:02
  people earlier. AQ Anastasia Quinones, she is
• 1:23:06
  great. I love her.
• 1:23:07
  She's a friend. She makes delicious food and
• 1:23:10
  she's super fucking talented, right?
• 1:23:12
  Her food is delicious and and it's recognizable.
• 1:23:14
  Like when I see her food, I know it's her food.
• 1:23:16
  I can spot it a mile away. So I love AQ and then Peja like
• 1:23:21
  he can, he can fucking cook. Peja's food is delicious.
• 1:23:25
  Like here's what I would say about Peja from Ma Hai Bah is
• 1:23:31
  you see something like I remember the first time I had
• 1:23:33
  his food, he served me some beets or something and I was
• 1:23:35
  like, oh fuck beets like. Here we go.
• 1:23:38
  And then you ate. It and then I ate it.
• 1:23:39
  I was like fucked. Like what did you do to these
• 1:23:42
  beets? Like I haven't had beets like
• 1:23:44
  that. Like he makes things when we
• 1:23:47
  talk about make it, make it delicious.
• 1:23:49
  He makes delicious food. So those those and my friend
• 1:23:55
  Omar Flores too. I got to give him credit like
• 1:23:57
  he's he's building an empire and I love Muchacho.
• 1:23:58
  It's one of my favorite recipes. You should check out Casa Brasa
• 1:24:00
  if you're in town. They just opened that.
• 1:24:03
  It's it's slamming. Beautiful restaurant, beautiful
• 1:24:05
  finish out. Had lunch a couple weeks ago.
• 1:24:07
  Food's delicious. Yeah, so shout out to those
• 1:24:09
  guys. Those are some of my favorite
• 1:24:11
  chefs in Dallas. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:12
  So Pasia is exceptional. Yeah.
• 1:24:15
  He's he like I started eating his food right when he took over
• 1:24:18
  Madai. Bob, this is what, like 2014
• 1:24:21
  probably. Yeah, that's right.
• 1:24:22
  And, you know, there's a classic Vietnamese dish, Boko, which is
• 1:24:26
  like a beef Stew, like, but, you know, Vietnamese style.
• 1:24:30
  And he did a play on that. It was just mind boggling.
• 1:24:34
  And that was kind of the first time I was ever blown away at
• 1:24:37
  his restaurant. And then he's just gotten better
• 1:24:39
  and better and better. By the years, I would say like
• 1:24:42
  Maha BA is in one of the you know, it's not a great area,
• 1:24:47
  it's not a great area. There's not a lot of foot
• 1:24:49
  traffic over there. You've got, you know, it's on
• 1:24:51
  Greenville, but Greenville himself, outside of like guy's
• 1:24:54
  girls partying, there's not, there's not a lot back there.
• 1:24:56
  So to be doing what he's doing and the longevity he's had.
• 1:24:59
  Oh, it's great. In that location tells you that
• 1:25:02
  like there can you know, and again, a lot of the spaces don't
• 1:25:05
  exist, but like he's he understands it and he's doing it
• 1:25:09
  at the right level and it does it.
• 1:25:11
  People are travelling to go eat his food.
• 1:25:14
  What was there? But what was York Street?
• 1:25:16
  Right. It was.
• 1:25:16
  It was. It was a French spot.
• 1:25:18
  Yeah, it. Was and once it was York Street.
• 1:25:19
  Yeah, it was. Yeah, that was also a Bangin
• 1:25:21
  restaurant back in the day. It's small, small, small small.
• 1:25:25
  Yeah, and it's it's such a unique concept too, talking
• 1:25:29
  about like just, you know, having a unique thumbprint.
• 1:25:32
  I mean it's a a Serbian chef, classically French trained who
• 1:25:36
  does kind of progressive or or inventive.
• 1:25:40
  Southeast Asian dishes. Yeah, it's, it's incredibly
• 1:25:43
  unique. I mean, I don't see places like
• 1:25:44
  that when I travel even. Yeah, he's he's he's great.
• 1:25:47
  We're we're your favorite spot. OK, top three meals recently.
• 1:25:52
  OK, so always love Mamini. Gosh man, what RJ?
• 1:25:58
  Shout out to RJ Yoko. What he's doing at Sushi Cozi
• 1:26:00
  right now is mind bending his oyster flan dish, which is it
• 1:26:05
  pays homage to Thomas Keller's oysters and pearls.
• 1:26:09
  Yeah. Is it like a chalmushi or?
• 1:26:10
  Yeah, it's Chalmushi. Yeah, and then it and it.
• 1:26:12
  Yeah, and then it and then it also plays into his mom's
• 1:26:15
  Mexican heritage by the flan. So it's like a savory flan with
• 1:26:21
  kind of a butter sauce that's split with oil, as it should be,
• 1:26:25
  yeah. It.
• 1:26:27
  Should be and some chive oil and then caviar and then a naj made
• 1:26:33
  with what is it? Vinjan foam to order.
• 1:26:36
  It's a beautiful dish. It's amazing.
• 1:26:39
  So sushi cozy mom. And he's always good.
• 1:26:43
  And I know you said 3, but I got through.
• 1:26:45
  And Lucia and Mati BA. Yeah, yeah, Lucia and Mati BA
• 1:26:48
  are always winners to exceptional restaurants.
• 1:26:51
  If we're giving flowers to Dallas, where where we going?
• 1:26:53
  Who, who, Who are some of your spots that you love?
• 1:26:56
  Oh my gosh, you gotta ask me and the guy who who works all the
• 1:26:58
  time and has. Sweet, sweet, sweet.
• 1:27:00
  Greens, this is like, this is like travel food, right?
• 1:27:04
  Like I'm always it. Doesn't have to be adults.
• 1:27:06
  What are your last three? Great.
• 1:27:07
  Meals, I'm always, I'm always on the road, so it's like I'm
• 1:27:09
  always eating sweet green. I'm like, OK, man, we're scaling
• 1:27:11
  a business. So it's like, hey, man, this I,
• 1:27:13
  I could see myself doing this in 10 years, right?
• 1:27:15
  Yeah, but what were the last three great meals?
• 1:27:17
  I I I ateam Almani not long ago and it was delicious.
• 1:27:23
  Where have I been lately? Oh my gosh, nobies in Houston.
• 1:27:27
  Phenomenal. And then I'm going to give a
• 1:27:29
  shout out about Texas. T Rex Justin, you slays as
• 1:27:34
  always. We ate there in I think it was
• 1:27:36
  November and just they just changed the menu and like very
• 1:27:43
  special place, right? By the way, the fuck?
• 1:27:45
  This might get me in trouble. If I say it, it's going to get
• 1:27:48
  me in trouble with other people, but not with the person I say it
• 1:27:50
  about. I think arguably I'm going to
• 1:27:53
  say one of the best restaurants, one of the best restaurants in
• 1:27:57
  Texas period, is Blue Dorn. For sure, I would agree.
• 1:28:00
  I've been there a handful of times.
• 1:28:02
  He it's awesome. He and it's a complete package,
• 1:28:06
  like fucking 9 eights and nines across the board from service to
• 1:28:11
  your to go order to the fucking light on your table to the
• 1:28:14
  fucking bee in the ice cube in your old fashioned, the like,
• 1:28:20
  and everything's delicious. The duck with the chicken liver
• 1:28:22
  fried rice thing like Aaron Bluedorn I think can open a
• 1:28:29
  great fucking restaurant. He's he's learned from one of
• 1:28:32
  the best. He learned from one of the best.
• 1:28:34
  And they're and they're, they're moving and they're doing great.
• 1:28:38
  Yeah, when when you first called me, when we first connected, I
• 1:28:42
  was in my that car and you were talking about Blue Dorn and I
• 1:28:45
  picked up a toothpick that had been sitting on my center
• 1:28:47
  console and started chewing on. It.
• 1:28:49
  Didn't have a single splinter, wasn't broken at all.
• 1:28:52
  That was a toothpick from Blue Dorn that I got like 6 months
• 1:28:55
  prior. Oh my.
• 1:28:56
  God, and they have those at the door and it just shows their
• 1:28:58
  level of detail. Indestructible toothpicks.
• 1:29:01
  Everything that they do at Blue Dorn is, is well thought out.
• 1:29:03
  It's, I mean, it feels good to be there.
• 1:29:05
  And it's, and, and what I love about Blue Dorn is it's a
• 1:29:09
  restaurant that you want to eat at every day, not just when you
• 1:29:11
  save up, not just like if, if I could, if I lived across the
• 1:29:16
  street from Bluedorn, you guarantee someone's going to.
• 1:29:18
  We're reading at Bluedorn every night and.
• 1:29:20
  That I think that's the mark of a successful restaurant, right?
• 1:29:23
  And again, you can look through different holes and different
• 1:29:25
  categories, A restaurant that you want to eat at every night,
• 1:29:28
  you eat there twice a week, you eat there multiple times a
• 1:29:30
  month. That's where you have longevity.
• 1:29:33
  Yeah, that that is arguably my favorite restaurant in Texas.
• 1:29:36
  I don't blame you, it's amazing. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:39
  No offense to any of my other friends, all have great
• 1:29:41
  restaurants, but me personally, someone's coming in town and I
• 1:29:45
  can take them anywhere. That's where I'm going.
• 1:29:48
  It's in the Michelin Guide. It is.
• 1:29:49
  So as we wrap up, where can people find you if they want to
• 1:29:52
  follow along, if they want to argue with you in the comments
• 1:29:57
  about your about your post, If they want to say that, use
• 1:30:00
  ChatGPT. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:02
  So I'm at Drew the Food Guy. Very simple and to the point.
• 1:30:07
  Instagram's kind of on the newer side, but I feel like I'm doing
• 1:30:11
  a lot of cool stuff trying to provide education.
• 1:30:14
  And you're doing like behind the scenes now I saw with some
• 1:30:16
  chefs. Yeah, so I'm meeting up with
• 1:30:17
  chefs hanging out in restaurants.
• 1:30:19
  We did one with Mamani Sushi Cozy.
• 1:30:23
  We're releasing one with Meridian soon.
• 1:30:26
  And then we're actually going, me and this videographer Justin
• 1:30:30
  Doherty are going down to Houston tomorrow to shoot with
• 1:30:33
  Tatamo. Nice, is there a YouTube channel
• 1:30:36
  for this Was just. Strictly is my Instagram right
• 1:30:38
  now through the food guy. Shout out to Eduardo too.
• 1:30:40
  I've already murdered and had a great meal there.
• 1:30:42
  Yeah, dude's dude's a beast. Doing a great job.
• 1:30:44
  Yeah, we. Gotta connect you with this.
• 1:30:46
  Guy, yeah, he's a great, great, great, great person so.
• 1:30:49
  And where can people find you, chef?
• 1:30:51
  I'm a I'm a member now. Yeah, yeah, I'm a member at the
• 1:30:53
  club. That's right, yeah.
• 1:30:55
  For life. For Life.
• 1:30:56
  Yeah, he's Jay Sutcliffe, Instagram.
• 1:30:58
  And then just Josh Sutcliffe at on LinkedIn.
• 1:31:01
  Man, that's really where I'm active.
• 1:31:02
  Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you guys.
• 1:31:03
  This has been fun. A lot of a lot of opinions and
• 1:31:06
  and I think a lot of good dialogue around solutions and
• 1:31:10
  and thought provoking conversation.
• 1:31:12
  Yeah, Yeah. Thank you so much.
• 1:31:13
  All right, that's the show. If you liked it, make sure you
• 1:31:15
  leave five stars, nothing less than five stars.
• 1:31:18
  If you want more chef's PSA, go to chefspsa.com.
• 1:31:20
  Get yourself some books, get yourself some merch, including
• 1:31:23
  Culinary Leadership Fundamentals and the Line Cook Survival
• 1:31:26
  Manual. If you want early access to
• 1:31:27
  episodes, you can get them on Spotify and Substack by becoming
• 1:31:30
  a paid member. The link is in the notes.