Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Greg 'Diesel' Williams

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Greg 'Diesel' Williams · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

0:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, as the much-loved footy season looms large with the excitement of packed stadiums, team scarves, and hot meat pies, it's the players, the teams that thrill us the most.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thrilled to welcome the very famous and much-loved footy legend, Greg Williams Diesel.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: How are you?
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: No, thanks for having me on.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, you and I caught up at a recent function and we had good chats about lots of things.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking forward to sharing some of these really important reflections that you have.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: I think what I'd like to start with, which we didn't touch on, but I'm curious to hear about, your early life was um actually one of physical challenge.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about when you were two and how you actually had some physical, like you had calipers when you were young, and I'm really interested to hear where your early life started.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: I actually had irons on my legs when I was two or three, so for a year.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I lived in Essendon in in Ascetbale, actually, near Esendon.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, mum, there's six kids, and yeah, I was a third.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Mandy, John, Greg, Joan, Lee Michael.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you were the third or six, right?
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I was yeah, in Irons for a year.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: I went to Flemington primary, and then we actually moved to Benigo when I was 10.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So the whole family went up there.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Dad was a plumber, so we ended up in Benigo when I was 10 years old.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: So that must have been pretty challenging for your parents because they had not only six kids, which is a feat in itself, but also you being a young boy and having this challenge to actually was it that your knees were not straight?
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Is that what what was the issue exactly?
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, back then my knees were crooked, yeah.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: So my legs lower were going the wrong direction, or but now they don't even do anything, they just let it grow out.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: But um, back then they just put irons on, and yeah, I had a year of sort of waddling around and but yeah, I still kept moving around, didn't stop me.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: But that's the point, isn't it?
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Really?
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I think that's what's interesting about that story is you can start with something that's really challenging and difficult.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: And if you've got a certain, I don't know, do you think it's nature or nurture or maybe a bit of both, to not let it stop you from doing what you love?
2:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously you were young, but still that's still a you know quite a challenge as a young kid, even if you were two or three or four.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: So do you put that down to your nature at an early stage of life?
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, look, yeah, it's tough when everyone else is running around and you've got a lot heavy ions on your legs.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: You sort of waddle and half run, but yeah, it's difficult.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: And but I think build strength and yeah, have to put up with it and get through it.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think all those sort of things help when you're young, definitely.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: I remember I went to Flemington Primary and um I remember mum's got a uh report I got in grade three.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: So I was I don't know how old that is, like seven or eight or so.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, anyway.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: The teacher said don't worry about school, you'll play VFL in grade three.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: So I got over the irons quickly and yeah, played sport very young and loved school and yeah, it's good fun.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: In fact, sport really became intrinsic to your life from that from then on, really.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Do you put that down to your parents?
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, you talk about like do you think that's to do with the way that they actually responded, your parents, or do you think it was something that you just innately were driven anyway?
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think your parents have got a lot to do with it, but yeah, yeah, I had an old brother as well, and a sister as well, but more John, who I, you know, he's a year older and bigger than me, stronger.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we did just did everything together.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, that was and I was always trying to keep up with him.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: I think that was a big thing.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Brotherly love and brotherly competition, nothing like it, the fire in your belly when you've got an older brother that you want to match or beat, yeah.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I really believe that because it's yeah, like I said, he's bigger, and we're playing football together and one-on-one, and whether it's yeah, basketball or anything, footy in the backyard, and yeah, it was just uh competition, and like yeah, he was tougher and stronger than me, and it really helped, I believe.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: So the fire in your belly came from partly wanting to beat him or keep up with him.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: And so tell us what your your earliest memories when you you started playing footy.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: What did you love about it as a young kid?
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Which I mean, uh we love footy, our kids play footy, but you know, growing up, so you're in Bendigo at that point, is that right?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I moved at Bendigo when I was 10.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I was playing under 12s at Golden Square, and John was under 12 as well, so we both I was bottom age.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: He was yeah, so we started, we lived about a kilometre away from Golden Square Footy Ground.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it was just we were there all the time, like cricket and footy and just practicing.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just uh yeah, we had a great upbringing, like Benio's top town, it's um sporting facilities, you know.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: We played a bit of tennis as well, but mainly footy and cricket.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: So, really, it's the community, isn't it?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Like that this is really what people need to understand.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Football is a sport, but it's also about community.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh definitely.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Golden Square was like your second home, and yeah, mum ran the canine, dad was on the board committee there, like yeah, it was just all the kids played, um, and netball, the girls played netball.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, like we were there, like I said, it every second, every every day we're there, and we um yeah, I just love being part of Golden Square.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: And what did it teach you about friendship, community?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: What what did you learn in those?
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Because I think football teaches kids a lot more than just about sport.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Tell us what it taught you at that early stage of life and obviously beyond, but starting early.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think just playing as well.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Like that's what sport does, I think.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: And there's a few issues with that at I believe now because the kids aren't as they don't play as much and inside more, and yeah, like we were just had a bike and yeah, got home for dinner, went to school, got home for dinner, and it was just all day out and riding or going to school, and yeah, go to training and yeah, with all your mates, your schoolmates as well.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: And just trying to think of under 12s, it's we had a really good team as well.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Like we had some players in our team, and yeah, we just loved it.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Like we just we won that year.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, we had a really good junior team, like we we just kept winning right through to under 16s, and we just had a great side as well.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: So and we played with all the same kids, and yeah, and I played in the league games, you know, when I was lucky to yeah, lucky they had you on the team.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that would have been a bit of a bonus to go, oh wait, what's going on?
7:15
SPEAKER_01: This guy's amazing.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: But also, I think to that, like you mentioned that obviously kids grow so much from being outside and being involved in sport.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: It's about discipline, it's about community, teammates, you know, team playing, learning that it's not all about you, and stops that solitary, you know, like sitting in the you know, there were no video, I don't know, were there video games at that time?
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think so.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Not that early, but a bit later.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, look, I all that I just love the being part of a footy club and you know, career club as well.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, you had older people there, of course, you know.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: I haven't played well, going on a bit of when I was 16, I played seniors when I was 16.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm playing with men and I had a lot of mentors who definitely look up to on mentors, yeah.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: I really did.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: I had some a couple of great mentors, and that was yeah, that was the the biggest step, I think.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: And it was difficult.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: I was only 16 playing the seniors against men, it was like tough, you know.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: John was playing as well, he was 17, so he helped, he protected me anyway.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: So so what did what okay?
8:23
SPEAKER_01: So who's some of do you remember?
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Was there a mentor in particular or somebody that you looked up to at that young that first entree who really stood out and gave you the the guidance and the at that early age?
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, dad dad's there, like he's the main man.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And like just on that, like we had we go fishing and shooting all the time, camping, like yeah, Hillston and just camping for two weeks, middle of nowhere.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just remember all those things, and we as kids, I remember um for Christmas, like we got in a room for Christmas four or five years in a row.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, I was 10 to 15 probably.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: We had a 36-foot caravan and uh dad had a gold station wagon, you know, and there was eight of us in the car, like you know, just those that that's what yeah, that's what family's all about, I think.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And I really, yeah, I just remember those days really well.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Actually, it's interesting you say that.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, we also caravanned all our summers, right?
9:22
SPEAKER_01: So that was like the best, and you'd rock up, wouldn't you?
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And you'd be at a caravan park and you'd meet all these kids, and then you'd all just go and you'd never met before, but everyone just hung out together.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: One of the best times we also grew up doing that.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: So I relate to that concept of just getting out back, you know, and just having that family time.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: And you speak about your dad too.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, your dad as a role model was pretty paramount, had a big role in giving you a pathway.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Talk to me a bit about what your dad did give you.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn from him?
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, dad was everything.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: He was he was um he was a plumber, and actually, John's a plumber, I'm a plumber, my little brother Louise's a plumber.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: So we all did our pressure with dad as well.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: So we went through all that, worked hard.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: But he was he was a leader, he was a boss.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, he was, you know, he's still he's 88 now, he's going pretty well still, but you know, he's just uh strong man, and he was a pretty he was a state squash player himself.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: He was really a good squash squash player, so and I played squash with him as well.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: I played squash in Benigo in A grade, I played squash, and I met my wife there.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: There, my wife's parents are in the squash court, so Mary's I met Mary there as well, so that was a good good outcome.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Good outcome, yeah.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So and um unfortunately I played my dad, he was about 40.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: I was I can't remember how I was young, 18, 20, something like that.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, he beat me in five as well, which was probably the biggest loss I've ever had.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Good on you.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Sounds like pretty cool, your dad, actually, and obviously pretty fit still at that time.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: So, but he he taught you obviously also discipline and staying focused.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you must have learned some of that from dad, yeah.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, very much so, yeah.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Work hard, like he was hard on us as well.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, and we had to help and we did, yeah.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: We yeah, we just it was just what we did and what he told us to do as well.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And if we didn't, he'd he'd come down hard on us, but yeah, we just knew the rules, and yeah, mum was mum had over 70 foster kids as well.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you talk about a great mum, like she's just a machine, like she had six of her own, then she had 70 over 70 kids herself, her and dad.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And we always had kids at our place, like foster kids, and yeah, it was just kids everywhere, you know.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: So oh my god, I look you've got to tell me more about that.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: That is incredible.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I realize it was so that 70 foster kids over a period of a few dec, you know, a decade or and so that's extraordinary, six of their own.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: So what what was that about?
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, why did they make that choice?
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Is that because they believed in looking after others that were less fortunate?
12:11
SPEAKER_01: What what was the motivation for them?
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's just an amazing thing.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, and that, you know, I'm just so lucky to have parents, mum's going well too, still.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, but mum was um even when this is going way back, she had five kids, and then this is a pretty cool story.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: I reckon it's she she read in the paper at that time.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: This is like a long time ago.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: I was only I was less, I was probably seven.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And mum read in the paper that a lot of mums that drop their kids off at hospital when they have them or leave them there, like they drop them off, you know, couldn't look after them.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And so they were asking for parents to look after babies, and mum and dad went out to the hospital and they put their name down for a baby and they went up next two weeks later and they got their my sixth brother, my sixth.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: No, not my sixth brother, but he was there.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Michael's the sixth, like so we they adopted Michael like after having five.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, but they adopted another one.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, anyway, so we had my how extraordinary is that?
13:14
SPEAKER_01: What cool parents that I mean, really, that they sound like they're not a lot of love to give.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Sounds like, you know.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's right.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: And then we went, yeah, went to Benigo, all of us, six of us, and then she started.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: But mum had a phobia as well.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, she couldn't leave the house, which was pretty extraordinary as well.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: She couldn't go to the supermarket, couldn't she never went to a game I played.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Um are you serious?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm serious, yeah.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: She had a real agrophobia.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Was that agrophobia?
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Fear of going outside and fear of of crowds.
13:45
unknown: Yeah.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: I've actually got goosebumps.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: That's that's extraordinary.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: She used to go to footy at Golden Square, she'd go to the canteen, but that's about it.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Like she would never go to supermarket or she used to listen to them footy on the radio and watch the footy on TV, but she never came to a game of mine because it was too hard.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is pretty sad, really.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: But anyway.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very sad.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: But also, it's interesting to me.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: It's such a fascinating dynamic that.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: How did she look after six kids?
14:15
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: And have foster kids and not leave the house and not be able to go to the supermarket.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Now, does that is that because her your dad and her were just an incredible team?
14:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he must have done the outside stuff.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, definitely.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Mum was always like she always had a baby in her hand, you know.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: She'd have babies for you know three weeks, six months.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, the last two, John Owen Hope, she adopted them as well.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: So we had eight in the end.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is like the most incredible story.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: You've like, we've got to make a movie.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's an incredible, incredible.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: So do you feel that um interesting.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: So mum was a big nurturer.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Very much so.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And a very sensitive woman, it sounds like that she but the outside world intimidated and overwhelmed her.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
15:13
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: And she just yeah, like I said, she'd always have a kid in her hand, like baby, or and um, yeah, she's looked after so many.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I uh actually, and then for some reason, I reckon I don't know how old she might have been.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: She might have been 60, and she started feeling better and went out more.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And and she's actually a very intelligent lady as well.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: She she used to be at court, she used to do the typing at court, like you know, the you know at court when the lady types all the words.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh usually went a stenographer?
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she used to do that in the court, so she was a seriously fast typer, but um at 60, she moved out of the she got out and she got getting out, yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: And then what she did, she actually went on the radio and started asking people to adopt kids and stuff for the local adoption center.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: So she's on the radio and she spoke beautifully all the time, and she was the best person to do that because she knew everything about it, you know.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: She and she'd asked people to come and adopt kids and stuff like that.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, she went from one extreme to going on the radio in the end.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: So it came good in the end, you know.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: What uh oh, she just sounds like a powerhouse.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Tell me how it how did it affect you growing up having all these different and obviously these kids you would come and stay for what a few months and then they'd be how how long would other than the the ones that were adopted, how did that work?
16:33
SPEAKER_01: They'd come into the home.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some had come in for a week and some had come for months.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: We had two twin boys for a year, Christian and the other kids.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: Two blonde kids there, and actually though, they were hard.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Dad had dad nearly had to give them back, like they were so rough, and like dad could handle anyone, but they had we had real trouble with these two kids, they were so wild.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I still remember anyway.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Funny thing, like 10 years later they left, like they were about 12 and they left because they were just out of control, and um, they'd been at home for a year, like anyway.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't remember about 25, 26, and they dropped around to mum's house.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: They dropped around, they come around to thank mum for having them for a year, and like it was really cool, you know.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And they'll grow so cool.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: They were grown up.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: So so basically, how did that impact you in terms of you had all these kids coming and going?
17:27
SPEAKER_01: You also had your parents sharing their love and resources across a lot of kids, yeah.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: So, did that how did that impact you growing up?
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Positive and negative, I'm assuming.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was all positive.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: It was just standard, like yeah, there's always eight in the house or nine, you know, it depends.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, we just went about our ways, you know, working in school, and then school and working, so yeah, just power on.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: We're all just powered on, and we all got fed.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Mum did it easy, you know.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Like it's amazing.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: That's incredible.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: How do you feed so many kids?
18:02
SPEAKER_00: I didn't say easy, but it looked easy for her.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: So we're talking very big meals for a lot of people, but I think it's also do you think in a way it sort of contextualizes or gives you perspective on your own privilege and your own to have a loving family, and then these kids have come in, and the it sort of gives you perspective on life is not always easy for everyone, yeah.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: And no, there's a lot more kids worse off than us.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's one of the big things, obviously.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Some remember a couple of there was one kid he was about, oh no, he might have been seven or eight, or and he we drove past the jail embedded, and he said, Oh, my dad's in there, you know.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Stuff like that.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Like you got kids who have no parents or they're in jail, or yeah, it's just sad stories, and and um yeah, really, yeah, it's so so much positive things about it, really.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, you learn you like you just say that that how lucky you are anyway.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: And what did you learn in terms of taking it forward yourself in your own life and your own relationships or your own parenting?
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well I believe I'm a really good parent as well because of them, you know.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: I really do.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I got a great wife as well.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, we've got four kids and six grandkids now, and like yeah, the same things, and I copied dad and a lot of things.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I know I do I look like him and you know, same size, same, yeah.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty much like dad.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd rather believe anyway.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: So but um yeah, no, it's just yeah, I know some guys who haven't had a dad.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Or dad's die dad dad's dad died when he was 10.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: Mum's dad died at 28 in the war when he was 28.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, like it's you know, I've had my dad my whole life, my mum, so you know, I just can't understand how they cope, but yeah, it's difficult.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: And are you as uh just as strict as your dad was?
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I believe so.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not as strict as dad.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: No, no, you're softened, you're you said a bit softer, yeah.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: No, lots lots softer, but I I'm firm, like I'm just there's rules, you know, that's how it's rules, and you know, the kids fit in and Mary's on top of everything.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: And so how important do you think the rules are as a footy player?
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the rules are everything, yeah.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: And and talk talk to me as a footy player, um, and as a as a person, because footy does teach you the rules, the boundaries, what you can do, what you can't do.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
20:35
SPEAKER_01: You sort of in a funny way, you learn you learn that young as a uh in sport.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: What do you reckon about the rules and footy and and how much you've learned from football itself in terms of life, I suppose?
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, there's a lot of rules.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of free kicks, but um like footy is difficult as well.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I've played it for I don't know, 10, so 50 years I've been playing football.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, not playing it, but I've been involved in football for 50 years, you know.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: I know all the rules, I've broken a few.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's all right, that's part of life, isn't it?
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: But um, no, I've really enjoyed every bit of it.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: What's it given you?
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just it's really good to be good at something.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I really think it is.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And I found what I was best at and I was lucky enough to be able to do it.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty cool.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: So, Greg, we were just discussing about how being good at something is really fulfilling.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: But footy's hard, it's not an easy thing to be good at.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: No, it's that's exactly right.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: I like I said, I played when I was sixteen seniors at Golden Square, and I think um you know, not many people do that.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: And then like I said, I had some good mentors there and um But the difficult part was I was actually athletically I was slow, you know.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: So that was the biggest issue.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: But um I got drafted.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: I was in Bengo Zone, so I went to Benigo.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Ah sorry, I was in Carlton Zone, sorry.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And I um I went there in the early eighties, did preseason when I was about eighteen or seventeen, seventeen, eighteen, and then I didn't get picked in Carlton's team, so I had to go back to Benigo.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And I won the league best and fairest in Benigo.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: And then I went did another pre-season and then didn't get picked again.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: So I went back to Benigo, won the league best and fairest again.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Um which is really frustrating and so disappointing because there's a because a guy, a couple of guys I played with that made it in Melbourne to play at FFL, and that was pretty much the driver for me because I was I just knew I was a better player than them.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: And um nothing personal, but yeah, I just knew I was better and I just athletically I had to to do those pre-seasons athletically helped me a lot because um I just walked around and got a lot of possessions, you know.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't as difficult, I didn't have to try as hard, or I had to win the BFL, and it just took me two or three years, and then I went to rode to Geelong, Tom Hafy, to do a pre-season.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: So that was I was 19 then, and I played that year the next year.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: The first game, I played the first game.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: So I'd had three years of pre-season, but I also had the knockbacks as you're talking about.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Like you know, it's very difficult.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: A lot of players that just go home and play in the country and be happy with that, but I wasn't happy.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I know all the training I did, and that was a mentor from Golden Square, he was coach.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Tony Southgum, he was a coach at Golden Square, and Ron Best was a champion player there, he helped me a lot as well.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: And just but Southgum, I ran with him pre-season, like he was a really a marathon runner type guy as well.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: So I ran like never before.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, I worked with dad as a plumber, apprentice, you know.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: We'd and dad was hard as well, and like we'd do a job in Eagle Hawk, which is say eight Ks from Golden Square.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd run home, you know, from work.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you know, and things like that, which yeah, like some serious training, yeah, which made a difference.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And then in Geelong, the I played my first game in 1984 for Geelong, for Geelong.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: So that was that's how that happened.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: But I think actually the story you tell is very much about disappointment, knockbacks, and determination and persistence, which are themes throughout your career, which is basically, and most successful people in most endeavors.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: But I suppose what you're exemplifying here is saying, and I think to the young footballers who I'm sure, you know, I know you're very much a mentor and they all look up to.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's good for you to tell those stories and to show people that, you know, it wasn't all straight like, wow, I'm amazing straight up.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: This is like I've got some ability, but I've, you know, I'm slow and I need to work on my fitness.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: And so so what would you say to young footballers who are sort of finding, trying to find their their rhythm and also getting the knockbacks?
25:14
SPEAKER_01: And we we see it all the time.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we saw, dare we mention it, the the game on last weekend for Carlton, which we'd rather forget.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: But hey, I'm a Carlton supporter, just saying, but um but but to that point, you know, dealing with disappointment is almost intrinsic to the game, yeah?
25:33
SPEAKER_00: It is.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: No, it's just such a hard game and cruel game, and but it's just uh my love, really.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I just dug deep and didn't give up, and it's like the same for any kids now.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of kids that don't get drafted, and they might have to play for four or five years after that, and then maybe get picked midseason draft, or yeah, and there's so many examples of rookies being champions, you know.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Um not getting, you know, they're not the best at 18 or 19, but by the time they're 23 or 4 or 5, they're they are so yeah, and so you're saying hang in there, and yeah, there's no sort of one way to get there.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, so tell us a little bit about how you think the game's changed, um, and what you think needs to change.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, well, the game's changed a lot.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Like it's could yeah, it's a lot different, but a lot of things are the same.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you explain that, well everything done with the ball is the same.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: So you know, whether it's handball kicking or marking goal kicking, it's yeah, it's just it's the same.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: It's um it's just very difficult defensively, so much more difficult to get get the ball through the goals.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just so much defensive is just so much so much congestion, it's just stoppages and things like that.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: So it's a lot, it's a lot harder to to create the loose man.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, create the loose man is pretty much the same, the most important thing, always has been.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I used to do uh as a player, handball and kicking, that's that's what I did.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Create the loose man better better than anyone, really.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh yeah, it's a lot more difficult to do that now.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot more difficult, and everyone just tries to create the loose man and score, so they've got to get through the defense.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just so much more defensive and congested.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And what do you think needs to change?
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the things that have changed like four or five years ago, even six years ago, the game was pretty uh pretty yuck, like it was terrible to watch and no scores or anything.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: So, but at the moment they're kicking 100 points and things like that, so it's in pretty good shape for the modern game.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Like crowds are up, everything's up, so yeah.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: So look, you know, you'd always like to see, I'd always say a mid-90s version, modern version of that, but that's never gonna happen.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Where you know Dunstall and Lockett and Kierry and you know, all these guys are kicking 100 goals, and yeah, that's just not that's just not gonna happen.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: I think someone will kick 100 goals again, but it's very difficult.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: You and I touched briefly when we caught up.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: We talked about women's football, which I want to talk to you about, what your thoughts are around that, and also the issue of CT percussion and how that's impacting.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: And I know you're a big, you know, you're a big advocate for the protection of players.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: So talk to me a bit about that.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, CT, I'm pretty much I know a lot about it.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: I've studied it and for a long time, and um, I've had a few issues that I don't really want to talk about anymore.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: But I do want to talk about looking after all the players today, which uh which the AFL are trying, but I still think that you know there's a lot there's a lot of things can be done.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Although there's so many players even now, modern day players who are retiring because of concussion and things like that.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: So it's um and then you talk about the women, that's probably one of the biggest problems I have with the women is CTE is that how hard how tough they are and how hard they go, and how I believe umpiring is very important for the women because I think you know they want everything the same as the men, and they do.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: But the yeah, they should be protected better, I think, from umpiring.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: And I uh the rules are in place to make the game um not as combative all the time.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: So if you just which they do continually let the girls tackle each other and smash each other and keep doing it with you know in the back, over the shoulder, like that sort of thing.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: I just think it should be a lot more tiggy-touch with the free kicks for the women.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: That's just my my opinion.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Still, they're still tough as anything.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: They are.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: We don't need they don't need to prove themselves to me.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, yeah, I just think slight rule changes would make a huge difference because women are twice as get concussed twice as easy as men, which is pretty significant.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just just the way it is, it's just different.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: And and as I know, you know it's not just getting knocked out either, it's just getting the continued tackling and continual training and hitting, and yeah, that's that's what CTE is.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be a you know, you get carried off the ground because you can cast that.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: It's the continued tackling and banging, which is unnecessary.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: And a training as well.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: It's unnecessary, it's still happening.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Like it's I just wouldn't like one doing it.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: I really wouldn't.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: Totally agree with you.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And I I think I think the interesting thing is well, what's some of the reading and research, and I know you've done a lot of it.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: What what are some of the things that you're you've come to understand about the impact of concussion?
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, look, I've got a lot of Peter Jess, who is my accountant, he's a pretty much the main guy who's pushed concussion, CT, for about 15 years or longer, and everyone just said, Oh, it's bullshit, and you know, it's this, it's that, and uh he was spot on what it was.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: And it's taken a long time for the AFL even recognized it.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: So they've obviously recognized it now, and they have made changes, and they'll say they've made enough changes, but I still think, like I said, training and like things like that, which are unnecessary, and like you're never gonna stop a collision, like we saw a shocking one on the weekend.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: The bulldogs young guy got hit, and um, like that was just horrendous.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm I'm not you're never gonna stop every one of them, but there is ways of minimizing it.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot written about it, and obviously, all the the research and the science and the doctors and everyone is saying unequivocally that it's a serious risk to players.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, AFL, as you say, they're trying to put in place certain protections.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: What would you like to see change?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Anything further than what's being done?
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just my opinion, but I just think training needs to be adjusted.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you just you can train.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: I know certain people say, oh, you've got to practice tackling, otherwise you won't be able to do it on the weekends, which I I just know it doesn't matter.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And there's yeah, there's just things that can be done that are like the bumps gone pretty much bumps the head's gone, which everyone says oh it's but it hasn't really wrecked the game or anything.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: And I also think about tackling, I think if there's half as many tackles, it doesn't worry me at all.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Like I I don't think it'd worry anyone.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we it's just that and that it's the similar thing.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: I just think it should be a little bit and people say oh it's a soft game if it's ticky touch would freeze and stuff like that, but I don't think it'd be a more open game, it'd be more dynamic.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: It'll be you know, there's so many people get you know high tackle or around the shoulder and that's play on, or in the back, it's play fuck just smashing blakes in the back and women in the back just falling on them and yeah, like what falls.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's like in the back's in the back, like why yeah.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: I just it's not about changing the rules, the rules are there, it's just interpretation of the rules, yeah.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Good point.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I get that.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: It's the easiest way to to help it.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, never gonna get rid of it.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, it's not gonna get rid of it.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: But uh I watched a show on in America football, and there was a the best brain surgeon in America said um the crowd asked a question, and a guy stood up, he said, Oh, my son's 15, he's placed grid on, he knocked himself out on the weekend.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: How many weeks should he have off?
33:49
SPEAKER_00: And you know, the guy said you should never play again.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and he's the best knows more about brains than anyone, and yeah, that's what he said.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: That's how extreme he sees CTE or concussion.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: You should never play again.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Like that's pretty damning.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Very damning and scary.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we get blogs carried off and they have two, they have 10 days off, you know, like it's just ridiculous.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: And look, it's very real, but yeah, look, I think you raise a really good point.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully there's some attention.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the facts are there.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: There's no question that it's not that it's an issue, just a question, as you say, of how those rules are interpreted and applied, and making sure that players are protected.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, on that note, I'd like to thank you, Greg, so much.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: I could talk to you for ages because you have so much to share and you're great to to um to talk to about all these issues.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, finally, just what's next for you in terms of obviously I know you're with Carlton and you're enjoying the next chapter of your life.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: What what what's your next little passion other than no?
34:53
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about Byron Bay on the weekend.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: I think I might move up there.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm hearing you.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm hearing you.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: No, look, I've I'll make Carl, hopefully there for a few more years, and then yeah, I'll just maybe retire and move up the beach somewhere.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I've got six grandkids, as I said, and four kids.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I've got plenty on.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think life's great.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm pumped about a lot of things, so yeah, everything's going really well.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for your time.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: Loved it.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Enjoy your time away, and uh thank you for sharing your words of wisdom with the What I've Learned podcast.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: We've loved having you.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Deb.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Good luck.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Love Dev.