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James Beard: Food Legend · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:02
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• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Jerry's here too, and that makes this Stuff you Should Know.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Let's see that's right.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: This is about James Beard, the Human and the James
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Beard Foundation and awards. Big thanks to Dave Brus who
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: helped us put this together. And I also got a
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff from a writer, a bunch of interviews
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: in magazine articles on this guy, John Birdsall, who wrote
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a book called The Man Who ate too much about
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: James Beard, about James Beard and James Beard through the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: lens of sort of what it was like to be
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a closeted gay man, and then you know, starting in
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds in the United States.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things about the Internet is is
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: when something comes along that's kind of definitive, most of
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the stuff that turns up on a search engine is
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: interpretation of that. Yeah, it's a bunch of different reviews
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: of in this case of a book or think pieces,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: you know, based on the book whatever. But if you
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: dig hard enough, you can find like pre you know,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: definitive articles as well. And this is a case of that.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: And it's really interesting to see things that were written
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: about James Beard in nineteen eighty ninety seven or yeh,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: twenty ten or whatever, anytime before twenty twenty when John
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Birdsall's book came out, and it's just totally different. It's
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: so much more surface level and accepting him as who
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: he was basically or taking on face that he was
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: who he seemed to be. And then now after that,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: it's like there's meditations on you know, whether he actually
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: hated being gay, like a friend said he did or
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: did he hate being gay in the mid twentieth century. Like,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: it's just a completely different approach to James Beard. And
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: certainly it's a lot more robust and well rounded and thoughtful.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: But in some ways it's like, man, it's too bad
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: we can't go back to the happier interpretation of James Beard.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: But that's just not how it goes.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So who we're talking about is, like you said,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: James Beard. If you are into food, if you're into restaurants,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: if you are into cooking shows and reading cookbooks and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: foodie culture, then James Beard is a very big name.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Because if you get a James Beard Award for your
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: podcast or your restaurant critic column or your cookbook or
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: most importantly for your restaurant, yeah, or as a chef,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: then that means big. That means fame and fortune and
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: all the things that go with winning a major award,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: as if it were a Tony or an Oscar or
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: a Emmy or whatever.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that is generally how it's viewed as the
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Oscars of.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Food until the Oscar said stop saying that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah they did. Apparently. The James Beard Awards were broadcast
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: of Food Network in the nineties and they call it
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the culinary Oscars, right, and the Oscars. Yeah, they were like, please,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: please don't do that anymore. We're going to see you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll get into his early history. But he
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: is or was a chef and a cookbook right, and
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: a business owner. He was probably the first American celebrity
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: chef and really formed the mold for all to follow
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: of chef as brand. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of food.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I saw some cool interviews with different like legendary chefs
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that were like, he knew more about every type of
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: food you could imagine and every ingredient on planet Earth
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: than anyone that I've ever met. And this is like
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Alice Waters and Jacques Papin and like the legendary chefs
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: of the world.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very highly regarded, highly thought of. And what's
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: amazing is he was self taught. Basically, he had a
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: lot of influences along the way, but he never went
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: to any he never had any formal training in cooking.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yet he started what we now call farm to
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: table cuisine and New American cuisine because from the very
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: beginning he was like, it's just got to taste good.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: It's simple ingredients put together in a non fussy way
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is the way it's best to cook and eat. And
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: now that's people are all about that. But that's sort
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: of a more recent sort of resurgence of that kind
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: of thing.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean if you took him now or
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: back then and just fast forwarded him to now, the
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: only two differences would be he'd be allowed to be
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: out as Carrie and he would have to get both
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: of his sleeves fully tatted. Right, That's it, because that's like,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: it's we just finally kind of caught up to his vibe,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: totally established it.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: All right, So should we go back to the beginning.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Let's all right, let's go back to Portland, Oregon then
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: in nineteen oh three. I can't imagine what Portland could
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: have possibly been like growing up as a kid in
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the nineteen tens and teens, but.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of horses and rugged people probably so.
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: In his own memoir, he.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Semi accurately just described his life as very idyllic, in
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the sense that from the very beginning he grew up
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: eating great food. For a couple of reasons, one or
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: for three reasons. Early one is because where he lived
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: in Oregon near the coast. They had great fresh seafood
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: everywhere and forest everywhere, so these great wild berries and vegetables,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: organic stuff, because that's just everything was basically organic, pre
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: mass farming and pesticide. And the other two reasons are
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that his mom, who was an english woman named Elizabeth Beard,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: was very much into good food and like making sure
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: her son ate like really great stuff and the finest things.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Because they had some money in there. He was pretty spoiled. Yeah,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I think so. And then the other was his who
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: ended up being kind of a godfather because apparently his
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: dad wasn't a very good guy, which was a Cantonese
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: immigrant chef who was the chef of the house name
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: jew Lette, who they were very very close and from
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: a very early age, James Beard was exposed to Chinese
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and Asian cooking, Cantonese cooking in particular. I believe that
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: jew Lette was also a master breadmaker, and Portland has
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: one of the oldest China towns in the US. So
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: as a young kid, he was being exposed to all
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: kinds of great cuisines thanks to the I think live
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: in chef.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you put those two together you get
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: a really good approximation of what he did. He took
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: He created American cuisine at a time like when he
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: really kind of became a public figure. It was at
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the exact same time that we were learning how to
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: make frozen foods and building TV trays, and there's a
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: whole g whiz thing to like aluminum foil and stuff
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: like that. So he pushed against that and said, no,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: we want fresh stuff, we want seasonal stuff. You don't
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: want stuff that was picked six months ago and frozen
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: ever since. And a lot of America was like, yeah,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: we dude, this is amazing. This is like the space
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: age in the future.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: Sit down.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: And then the other the Giulette influence was to take
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: other cultures dishes and americanize them in certain ways, just
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: swapping out ingredients, changing the name, and just making it
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: that much more approachable. But it's still something that you know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: it's still an exotic dish, but it's an exotic dish
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  Speaker 2: that he's explaining the average American cook who's interested can
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: go do.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Like I said, his dad was not a great dude,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: wasn't around that much. His mom, who I mentioned, was
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: born in England was she ran the family. They had
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: a boarding house called the Gladstone in Portland, and she
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: ran that and apparently was a perfectionist and very domineering.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So while she was, you know, orchestrating all these gourmet
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: meals for her young son, I get the idea that
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: it wasn't the easiest sort of home life with her
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: perfectionism and diamondeiring qualities.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you didn't get that from his memoir, which
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: is another good kind of sketch of what he was like.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: He presented himself totally differently as a public figure then,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say totally differently, but much differently,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: especially as he became more and more of a public
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: figure right than who he was in real life. He
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: was very good at embellishing anecdotes or you know, he
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: realized the value of the backstory to a recipe would
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: make people want to make it more and then they
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: could share that when they cooked it for their friends.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: He went to Read College there in Portland and ended
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: up being asked to leave Read College basically expelled his
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: freshman year in nineteen twenty one, because he had a
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: couple of affairs with other students and one with a
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: professor where apparently some of his roommates actually witnessed this,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: like walked in on them, and they very quietly said,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: you've got to get out of here. And I don't
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: know if being gay was illegal in Oregon at the time,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: but it was illegal in some states, and it wouldn't
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: surprise me if Orgon was one of them.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: But they said, you got to get out of here.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And the yearbook hadn't even been published yet, and they
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: erased every mention of him in their yearbook before it published.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which, depending on who you ask, either like scarred
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: him for life when he secretly held it as a
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: mark of shame, and maybe that was one of the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: reasons why he hated being gay, or he just you know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: rolled with it and moved on. I'm not quite sure
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: which is correct, but either way, he still had a
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: deep and abiding love for Reid College and left most
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: of his estate to Read College after he died.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not I don't know.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I wonder why that happened, because I know they eventually
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: came around once he got famous and were like, oh,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: he's a very famous reading and they gave him an
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: honorary degree. Many years later, in nineteen seventy six. But
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it still surprises me that he just
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: for being there one year that he I don't know,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: left in that kind of endowment.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not even one year. He didn't even make it
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: through his freshman year. Yeah, yeah, No, it's surprising because
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: he also could have been like, oh you want me
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: to be a ready, now, shove it, but he didn't.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: He very he was very pleased to have been given
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: an honorary degree. So after college, his little Stanton College,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: he's like, you know what, I want to be an actor,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: maybe an opera singer. My family's pretty wealthy, so I'm
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: just going to go to Europe, joining a traveling theater
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: company and study my craft in Europe. There he learned,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I think the hard way that he had a mediocre talent.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I saw it described, But in like Paris and London
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: and some of the great European capitals he found like,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, there's like these gay communities are just
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: barely on the downlow, Like there, you know, they have
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: great parties and they have their own bars and places
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: to go, like it's totally unlike America. So in that sense,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I think he learned to appreciate being gay, or at
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: least interacting with the gay community for the first time
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: there in Europe, which would have been a great education
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: for him.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And he spent the next I don't know, fifteen or
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: so years moving around a lot, still trying to work
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: in theater and doing also getting involved in cooking some
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: and I think twenty four he moved back to Portland,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: worked as a radio announcer and again joined another theater troupe.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Twenty seven moved to la for a little while and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: actually got a couple of bit parts in Cecil.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: B de Mille movies.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very small part, so you know, kind of
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: just like you were saying, he apparently he could sing
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and act.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: It just was, you know, he was right there in
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: the middle.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it wasn't like, oh like he had no
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: talent whatsoever, and he was just a rich kid. In
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: twenty eight he went back to Portland, more local theater,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and then started spending a lot of time in Seattle,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: did a semester at Carnegie Tech and Pittsburgh where he
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: studied like scenic design and costume design and stuff. So
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: he was really still trying to do the theater thing,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and that's what he was still trying to do when
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: he moved to New York in nineteen thirty seven.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and he.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Didn't aspire to be a chef. He basically did it
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to make ends meet. That's when he started. When he
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: was in New York, he fell in with the gay
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: community there, which was super underground apparently at the time
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: in nineteen nineteen thirties. Even in New York, you couldn't
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: even hint that you were gay, like you just did not,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: at least not in public. So you couldn't go out
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to bars because bars didn't want you. They could lose
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: their license if they were caught with a gay person
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: in their on the premises. So what the gay community
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: did in New York was throw private parties at people's houses.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And what he did was he started hiring himself out
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: to cook for these parties. And he got particularly good
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: at creating cocktail party food, finger foods, cannapis or dervs,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, so much so that he ended
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: up making writing his first cookbook on that, which we'll
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: talk about in a second.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this all this New York stuff, this is
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: post prohibition, like there were gay bars in New York
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: pre prohibition, which I didn't even realize. No, I didn't either,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: but they basically use prohibition once the things started post prohibition,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: once things finally started opening up again, to say, okay,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: but here's the deal, like no more gay bars.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like history. It's crazy. It's just a
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: back and forth of progressive and conservative, progressive and conservative
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: like a seesaw. It's interesting because you tend to think
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: of everything as kind of moving forward. It would be progressiveness.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't always, No, it doesn't.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: You're talking about those cocktail parties in New York where
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: he was making food. He ended up meeting a very
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: key person in his life named James Cullum, who was
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a wealthy gay socialite, and he said, hey, why don't
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you move in with me. I got a spare room
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: and you can kind of be my I thow these
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: huge parties and you're great at this, and you can
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: kind of be my live in cater chef essentially, And it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: Was I saw.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It was like a completely platonic thing. But he moved in.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Through culumn.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: He was able to work all these other parties, meet
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: all the sort of well healed gay New Yorkers with money,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and like you said, he made quite a name for himself.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: And he was doing this, like you said, with these
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: sort of simple or dervs and finger foods, that he
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: would make his own. One thing that he's still very
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: famous for was his onion sandwich.
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I looked up this thing. I gotta make one now.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Really I was not inspired to, Oh.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Man, I think they looked delicious. I saw Jacqupapine make one.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe I had some with sure. But you take some
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: bryoshe and you cut, like use a biscuit cutter or
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: something to cut it into a circle so it doesn't
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: have any crust. You cut two of these. You make
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: up some homemade mayo ideally or dukes of pure in
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: a pinch, and then you spread mayo in each side.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You slice very thinly. You cut an onion in half,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and then very thinly slice you know, a half moon
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: of onion and a half moon of onion, and put
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: those together so it is, you know, covering the whole sandwich.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And then you spread mayo along the outer rim of
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: this sandwich. Once you put it together, and then roll
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: that in either chopped parsley or some combination of chopped
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: herbs that you like, and it just it looked really
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: good and it looks very simple, and everyone goes nuts
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: on it. So I've got to try it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, let me know how it is, and if
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: it is particularly good, I'll try it for sure. And
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: it's not like I'm like that's gross. I just I'm like,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: this is missing something that would make me want to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: eat it, like where's the deli meat?
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: He apparently wealthy, and this is something birds All wrote
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: about that, like wealthy straight parties at the time, they
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: had like really fancy stuff like you know, caviare and truffles,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: but the food itself, apparently, and the finger foods and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: sandwiches are all kind of boring, and apparently this stuff
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: was just way better and more creative.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so again, he made his name as a catering chef.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: He founded a company called or derv Inc with a
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: brother and sister, Bill and Irma Roade, and at the
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: same time he learned a lot from these people. He
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: also learned a lot from a woman named Jean Wilson
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: who was a socialite in New York, and all three
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: of them kind of took him under their wing, taught
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: him things like the value of like going out and
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: finding good ingredients at stores in New York, like how
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: to appreciate wine or at least pretend like you understand
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: how to appreciate wine. From Bill Road. He learned the
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: value of adding a story, a backstory to a dish.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: How important that was. And it was another it was
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: if his education came in like peaks and valleys. This
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: was another big peak in his culinary education, you could say.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: And he went on in I think nineteen forty, just
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: a few years after he started cooking. I think, right,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: didn't you say it was thirty seven that he really started.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I mean he moved to New York in thirty seven,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and I think kind of ditched everything else in like
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: thirty eight and thirty nine.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, So in three years he went from teaching himself
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: how to cook basically hanging out with New York society
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: to writing his first cookbook in nineteen forty, which he
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: claimed over written in six weeks.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, shortly thereafter. And I guess we'll take a break
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: after this. But he was drafted into the army. I
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: saw he enlisted and that he was drafted. So I'm
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: not sure which is true. But I was all drafted
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: more often than enlisted, and UH that ended his catering
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: business for a couple of reasons. I think even before
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: he was drafted, the food rationing basically ended that catering business.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: But he was drafted in forty two UH into a
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: cryptography school and served in the US Seaman Service in
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: places like Brazil and Puerto Rico and Panama and France.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: So he's in a way still kind of continuing his
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: food education by living in these places with awesome food.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Man, that's super interesting.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Should we take that break, Yeah, let's all right. We'll
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: be right back with Moron James.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Bear Stoffy, Josh, I want to learn about a terris
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: ort and college Taradactyl, how to take a berger bout
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: fractalk Is Khan, that's a little hunt, the Lizzie Boarders,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: plane everything, and Josi.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: Sport up. Jerry.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: All right, So I mentioned Gene Wilson, Bill and Irma Road.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: They had a huge impact on his culinary education. I
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: should say, nothing formal again, like that was just hanging
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: out with the right people who kind of provided this
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and that and sometimes recipes. He co owned the catering
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: business with them, but the first chance he got to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: cut them out credit wise, he took in his nineteen
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: forty cookbook can or dirves and Cannipates. There's no mention
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: of them. There's no mention of any of the order
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: of ink, or of their ownership and order of ink,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I should say. And he kind of, at least in retrospect,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: became a little bit famous for, at the very least
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: put it as nicely as possible, not giving credit where
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: credit is due, at worst, using people and then burning
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: the bridge in an effort to climb ever upward.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I saw that onion sandwich recipe might have even been
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: from the roads. Yeah, I'm not sure about that one
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: hundred percent, but that could be an example.
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: He wrote.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: He was very prolific, wrote a lot of books. From
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: nineteen forty to nineteen eighty three. He had twenty cookbooks,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: including nineteen fifty nine sort of his seminal work, the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: James Beard Cookbook that had it was kind of like
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: a kitchen bible, which apparently he wasn't a big fan
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of those kinds of books, and this was not even
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: close to his favorite of his own, but it was
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the best selling and had everything in there from how
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: to make like a French Castle, aid to how to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Boil Water, and was I think the first cookbook to
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: feature the chef on the cover. It was just unheard
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: of to do at the time. It was just you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the joy of cooking or whatever, you just have text
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and he was the first person to put his mug
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: on there. And again that's just sort of laid the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: groundwork for chef as brand. He was this really big
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: guy who was six ' three weighed over three hundred pounds.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: He eventually was bald and kind of looked like an
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Uncle Fester type, but apparently he just had no self
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: consciousness about the way he looked and a bigger person
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: like eating a lot, because he ate a ton and
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: consistently talked about how much he'd loved to eat a
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: lot of food.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: So much so that he had one of the first
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: cooking shows, maybe the first televised cooking show in America
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: in nineteen forty six. It was titled I Love to Eat.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: That was his catchphrase.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he would say that at the either the end
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: of the beginning of everyone. It only ran for a year,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and from what I could tell, that was his only
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: TV show. He made some appearances on other shows like
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: The Mike Douglas Show and other stuff like that, but
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: that was his TV show. That was his one TV show. Instead,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: he ended up making his his name more with like
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: cookbooks and a cooking school and all of that. But
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: on that show, apparently you can see the beginnings of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: that chef brand of his, where you know, he had
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: a big appetite but only for delicious food, right, so
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: he had no problem with eating and eating and eating,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: but it had to.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: Be good food.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: It wasn't going to waste that on any junk.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I looked for clips of
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: this show. It's really I found a couple of short ones.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It's really kind of hard to find stuff because he
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: just didn't preserve you know, we've talked about it before
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: media like they do now. But I did read in
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: one of the birds All interviews where he was saying
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that despite being in the closet, he would drop he said,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: gay men at the time, he said they would drop
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: called what they called hat pins. So just little references
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: or a little the way they said something to kind
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of as code of like hey I'm gay, like you
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: see what I'm putting down here, and he would do
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that on his TV show, and he would drop little
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: hat pins just sort of to the gay community at
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: least so they.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Would know that he was gay. But straight people are
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: just like this guy's just so fun.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, I wonder what community does that now, and we don't.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: We're not aware of it now. Who knows.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I'd be very curious if you know. Right in But yeah,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: apparently was. He was very much like that until that
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: first best selling cookbook, that James Beard Cookbook came out.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I read that any semblance of that was totally stripped out,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: and his brand now was a manly man who loved food,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: and I saw was so is so enthralled by food
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: and the good life that he didn't even like a
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: relationship with women wasn't even on his radar. He was
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: too busy enjoying life kind of thing. Yeah, that was
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: kind of how he was presented starting in the late fifties.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: There's a Instagram guy I follow. I can't I wouldn't
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: be able to pronounce it anyway, because he's like Danish
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: or something. I'm not sure what he is, but he
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: lives in the beautiful mountains of one of those Scandinavian countries.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: But his stuff is great because he cooks sort of
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: this like great looking food but in a very tik
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: took way. It's like a big he'll cook it on
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: a big stone that's been heated by this fire he
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: makes himself. But it's like really elevated sort of camping food.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And he gives stuff to his dog at the end
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of everyone and he never speaks or anything.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: It's all silent.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: Have you seen this?
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: But is he like a kind of like a wild
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: man and he lives in a tent.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: He is a wild man in a tent.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have seen it. And he like he'll point
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: to stuff.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because he may not speak English.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: But I was just thinking, like nothing would make me
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: happier than if at the end of one of these
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: like some guy just walks in from the mountains and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: they just start making out of the end.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: Sure, I'd be like, all right, there you go, in,
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: there you go, James Beard, do it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: So we talked about the fact that he he would present,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of fancy foods in a simpler way
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: for Americans that may have been intimidated by like you know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the classic French cooking and stuff like that. And one
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: good example is in his cookbook from nineteen forty nine,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: the Fireside Cookbook, when he basically made what is an
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: omelet peissant, which is a French for a peasant omelet,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: but he called it a country omelet, and all he
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: did was a country All he did instead of putting
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: salted pork belly in this omelet that also has potatoes,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: onions and parsley, was put in smoked bacon, and he
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: called it a country omelet, and it just seemed completely American.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what he would do. Like he would, I
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: guess in the parlance of today, he would appropriate other
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: cultures food and alter it just enough to make it Americanized.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: He wasn't doing it from what I could tell, because
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: he was unimaginative, because he couldn't come up with his
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: own stuff. He was from an appreciation of those other
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: culture's dishes, and he was americanizing it not out of
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: a disrespect to that culture originating it, but out of
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: making it more accessible to American cooks. And in doing
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: that he is credited with basically coming up with American cuisine,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: and it's hilarious. But it's so American that American cuisine
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: is predicated on other culture's food. And it was a
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: huge debt to front to French cooking, and large part
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: it's because people like James Beard and James Beard in
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: particular took French food and americanized it and made American
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: American cuisine in the process.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Dave makes a very good point, like if you
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: think of the nineteen sixties, what might be on in
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: a recipe book or a menurobably, because like you said,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: that was sort of when TV dinners were all the
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: rage and stuff like that, and it just didn't seem
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: like there was a lot of attention being paid.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: To real quality like that. But that's all come back
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: in a big way.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And if you read some of his recipes from the
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, and they say, and he's writing about roasted
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: figs and pergudo and sun chokes and savicha and stuff
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: like that, Like, I didn't know about any of that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: stuff in the eighties and nineties, even probably, and he
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: was writing about the stuff in the nineteen fifties and sixties.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: It started to become a thing in the eighties with
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: the yuppies, started to and they can thank James Beard
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: But you're just thinking of American snacle.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm totally at what is it? Ah?
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: Is it la cirque? No? No, I shouldn't know.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll figure it out.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: That scene with the business cards.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: It's great. So yes, but that's exactly what I was
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: thinking of.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: But you're right, so yes.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: But before that, like there's an example of him in
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: his TV show in nineteen forty five or six talking
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: about this exotic oil that people should go route out,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: like it's hard to find, but it's worth it's worth
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: the effort. And it was called olive oil. Yeah, and
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: like this was like this is a time when that
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: was not You could not find that anywhere, maybe in
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: like little Italy, but you did not find it like
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: mass produced in your grocery store like he used large exactly.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why you find it mass
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: produced in your grocery store now is because James Beard
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: introduced it to America. Like that's the effect that this
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: guy had. He's everywhere. His influence is everywhere still today
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: and not just still today, Like finally today, his influence
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: has really kind of come into full fruition.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, agreed.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I love talking about food.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: And I'm hungry. Should we take that second break?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Sure, let's go. Let's go get some onion sandwiches.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: All right, well, and we'll talk about the James Beard
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Foundation and his legacy right after this.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: Stoff, Josh.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Shop stop.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I want to learn about a Terris Hortan College hoadactyl,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: how to take a perfect movement, all about fractal think
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: is gone.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: That's a little hunt the Lizzie and josif we should
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: know no word up Jerry.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, So now we move on. Now that we know
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the man pretty good. Thirty minutes on James Beard, I think.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: So we'll talk about his foundation. In the seventies in
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: New York, he bought a townhouse at one sixty seven
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: West twelfth Street in Greenwich Village. And now he was
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: sort of a little more on the down low. He
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't on TV as much. He wasn't he was still
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: writing cookbooks, but he was. He was just a little
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: more private. I guess at that point he was free
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: in the seventies in New York, especially in Greenwich Village,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to be a little more out. Although you know, apparently
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: he was just sort of a homebody with his longtime
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: partner who was a pastry chef, Gino Cofaci, and would
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: again throw these great parties, these great holiday meals. In
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one he started, and this is a big
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: part of his legacy today. He founded with a restaurant
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: critic Gaale, Green City Meals on Wheels and to date,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and this is basically it's not officially Meals on Wheels,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: but just a similar thing that covers New York City.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: They have served since nineteen eighty one fifty million meals
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: to people who can't get out of the house in
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: New York.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. I was like, wait a minute, was this
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: the beginning of meals on wheels? And no, no, well
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: it's an apparently meals on wheels have been around since
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the forties. Yeah, so I'm sure we talked about in
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: our Meals on Wheels episode.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: But still, that's right.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It's definitely worth tipping your hat to for sure. Absolutely
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: so the whole thing started the James Beard Foundation in
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: an effort to buy back his Greenwich Village townhouse from
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Reid College. Remember he'd left the bulk of his estate
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: to read. And I get the impression as one of
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: his students who became a colleague, Peter Cump, who kind
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: of took the reins of this and got other people,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: including Julia Child, kind of to champion this cause. And
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: it was wildly successful because James Beard died in nineteen
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: eighty five and they owned the townhouse by nineteen eighty six,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: so then they were like, okay, what do we do next.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he, by the way, he lived to be
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: eighty one, So despite his his size and how much
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: kind of rich foods he ate, eighty one's not too bad,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: not bad at all. Heart failure finally got him. But
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: in like you said, they got the James Beard House,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: which they renamed officially James Beard House, still there today.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And I think their first sort of mission was to
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: quote provide a center for the culinary arts and to
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: continue to foster interest the interest James Beard inspired in
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: all aspects of food, it's preparation, presentation, and of course enjoyment.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And you know, it was sort of a sort of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: a humble start I think for what ended up being
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: a very big deal. And part of that was kind
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: of kicked off the very next year, in nineteen eighty seven,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: when Vodyangpak.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Who is known it's so fun to listen to he is.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I love hearing that guy talk. And at the time,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: back then he was known as Walter Pagowski. Still is
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: that his name?
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: Oh god, I believe every joke you tell.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: No, I'm killing it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: Oh gosh.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear a interview or just a
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: conversation between Wolfgang Puck and Werner Hearts.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally, that would be the best. Bock said, hey,
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: can I can I host at your house?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And they said, sure, you can come and cook at
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the James Beard House and host a dinner. And it
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: was a big hit apparently, so he said, why don't
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: we do this like once a month, had these big
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: dinners prepared by either big famous chefs or someone who's
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: up and coming, and all of a sudden, the James
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Beard House itself starts to get its own reputation.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I'll bet a dinner there's at once really
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: great and also very trying to hear some of the
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: people around the table talking about it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I want to someone has an end invite
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Josh and I and you, me and Emily to come.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but if I'm sitting there like rolling my eyes.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Don't get mad.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: The onion sandwich please.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: So this Peter Cump guy, he's like, I'm going to
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: memorialize my teacher one way or another. I mentioned Julia
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Child really, I don't know if we said that. She
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: and James Beer were very good friends. Yeah, and at
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a time, probably seventies eighties, they were the two most
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: well known chefs in America far and away, which is
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: remarkable because again, neither one of them were formally trained.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I think they were both self taught. Yeah, so Julia
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Child's on board, but Peter Cump is really kind of
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: running the show here. And they start handing out awards
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: pretty quickly after the Beard House is established and the
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Beard Foundation is established. And at the time they give
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: the award out for great American chefs, and you could
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: expect a certificate, a commemorative chef knife, chef's knife.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: Nice, and that's about.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: It at the time for the first few iterations of
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: this award.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, of course, a little recognition for those in
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the know. But it's not like now where a lot
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: of people now are like, it's a James Beard restaurant,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: we got to go there totally like just from people
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: watching you know, Food Network and stuff like that in
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: So they just said, bought this house in the.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Like eighty what do you say, eighty seven, eighty six,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: eighty six, and got things going sort of in the
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: late eighties, and then in nineteen ninety the publisher of
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: The Who's Who of Cooking in America said, you know what,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: we'd like to sell this property, and come said I'll
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: take it and bought the rights to At the time,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: it was sort of the best honors book for top chefs,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: and he said, well, here, let's expand it though, and
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: let's not have just chefs, but let's have food at
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: critics and restaurants and wine Somlia's and wine people and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: cookbooks and eventually, you know, podcasts and blogs and let's
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: give awards for all kinds of things. And eventually that
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: became the James Beard Chef and Restaurant Awards that we
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: still have today.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think they actually had them in parallel for
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: a little while, and then they shut down the Who's
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Who of Cooking in America because those awards were only
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: given out by previous award, so it became kind of
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: an ara Borros. It wasn't very expansive. It was very
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: tight knit. But the James Beard Chef and Restaurant Awards,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: at the very least were meant to be more far
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: looking than the who's who of cooking in America was. Yes,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: whether they achieved that or not depends on who you
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: ask in what year you asked it. But eventually, in
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: the early nineties it started to become a at least
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: that you could see the outlines of the prestigious award
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: that it is today.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: The first awards in ninety one were held on the
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: MS New Yorker Cruise ship, Dinner Cruise Ship and the
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Best Chef, and they give them out I think New York, Texas,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: and California now each have are their own region and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: then everyone else is split up into like Southeast and
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Northeast and stuff like that.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: Can fly over exactly.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: But that first year, see if you recognized any of
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: these names. The very first year of those awards, Southeast
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: winner was Emerald Legassi.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Isn't he the one who'd be like, I guarantee No,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Well then no, I haven't heard of him.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: He's the bam guy.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: The Midwest was Chef Rick Bayliss Bobby Flay one rising
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: star chef.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Wasn't he married to the actor from Law and Order
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Bobby Flaked assistant DA for a while.
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: Oh, I don't know, Yeah, maybe that's a yes.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: A chef Nancy Silverton, who was a legend, won Pastry
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Chef in ninety one, then one for her restaurant Campanil
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, and then one for Best
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Overall Chef in twenty fourteen, so she's a three time winner.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: And if you're wondering who.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Won Best Outstanding or overall Outstanding Chef that very.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: First year, hey, look at me. It's a really very
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: fuss winner.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Very nice. That's appropriate because he all put the James
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Beard House on the map.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Oh and also quickly for you wine lovers, Robert Mondavi
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: won Outstanding Wine and Spirits Professional that very first year.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: And Mondavi is now.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Like, you know, a wine led right, and it's hard
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: to stop and imagine. But at the time these were
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: all like unknowns in America, you know. And I don't
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: think it's coincidence that they're all household names now with
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: huge brands and huge, mega money making careers behind them
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: because of the James Beard Awards, at least in some
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: large part.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think restaurants who have been nominated just nominated
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: for a Beard Award says that they typically double their
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: reservations and they increase their sales by twenty to twenty
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: five percent.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Not all though. I saw an interview with a guy
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: named Jason Wilson who had a restaurant called Crush in
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Seattle back in the mid I think the twenty ten
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: or eleven he won Best Chef and he said, Nope,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: it did not have that effect people. We talked about
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: it more, but it didn't get more people in the restaurant.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: From what I can tell, though, he was an outlier
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: in that respect.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought you were going to say he won
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: in March of twenty twenty and just couldn't understand why
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: people weren't backing up.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Well, he actually did cite the economic downturn is one
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: reason why it wasn't happening, and he was talking about
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: the from the two thousand and eight meltdown was still going.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I remember that was that lasted easily until twenty twelve
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: or thirteen, and he won in twenty ten, so he
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: had just in there griping.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: So we need to talk about the controversies of the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Beard Awards though, because they've had a few things that
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: happened over the years. Any awards ceremony is going to
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: have controversies. That's just how it goes. Anytime you have
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: a body of people doling out awards that are meaningful
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: and economically impactful, it's going to happen, especially.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: When it's a group of almost exclusively white people.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that comes up a little later, kind of recently.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: But in two thousand and four, they had a chairman
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: named Leonard Pickel I guess senior or junior. I don't
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: think it's pronounced pickle p i c k e l.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: And he was convicted of grand larceny I think second
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: degree grand larceny for basically stealing about a million dollars
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: in cash or you know, expensing things he shouldn't expense
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: over a three year period, like those are the foundation's money,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and they have a lot of you know, scholarships that
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they dole out too, so that's you know, that's a
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: big deal if you're stealing from him. He's spent a
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: few years in prison.
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: The board resigned.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: There were a bunch of journalists who were judges that resigned,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: they came back from that, and then you know, Mario
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Battally comes along, the me Too movement comes along, and
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there's people that are saying, like,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, a lot of these chefs you're nominating
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: and acknowledging are monsters, either literal sexual assault assaulters or
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: they're just you know, chefs can be well known for
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: being sort of monsters in the kitchen and screaming and
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: yelling at people, and you know, they have tempers generally speaking.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: True, but I saw and it makes a lot of sense.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: You can really blame food network producers and other network
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: producers who created kitchen based reality shows for perpetuating that
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: and making it seem normal and creating that whole generation
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: of mean, bullying chefs who would just do that without
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: a second thought, thanks to people like Gordon Ramsay doing
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: that on TV for year after year after year.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: But they were already doing it in real life.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, true, but there was there's also always been chefs
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: that didn't do that too, and it made it, It
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: made it trendy to do that. It just made it
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: acceptable for so long that it wasn't until the last
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: few years that people really started pushing it back on
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: it and said, no, this isn't normal. It's not okay
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: for our entire industry to be like this. I shouldn't
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: be berated at work every single night. It's not okay.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: And so people finally pushed back on it, and the
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: James Beard Awards got caught in the middle of that
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: because they've been awarding all these chefs that were really
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: troublesome people and mean over the years, all these awards
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: award after award after awards, so they were also supporting
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: it indirectly, and you can also make a case directly too.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: And so once this was kind of established like this
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: is not okay, James Beard Awards, you are the arbiter
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: of what is who are good chefs? You got to
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: do something about this too, they kind of went back
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: and said, Okay, what are we going to do about this?
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: We've got to do something because at the very least
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: for optics, we can't keep giving these people awards, and
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: who knows, maybe they actually do care about the industry
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: and the people working in the industry, and in that case,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: they really needed to reconfigure what they were doing and
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: reevaluate it.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it wasn't just you know, monsters in the kitchen,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: but it was a pattern of like, hey, and this
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: is this is just the history of the restaurant industry.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: It's like white men are recognized more, they're more at
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: least in the past.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Just the restaurant industry.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: Though.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gotten way way better in the last you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years. But you know, for most of
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: restaurant history, it was like white men were the chefs
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: and they were running the show. For the most part.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: There were exceptions. Of course, it's gotten way way better
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: now there's much more inclusion. In twenty eighteen, the James
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Beard Foundation said, we need to make some real changes
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: to a kind of get these bad apples out of
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: the nomination process to begin with, and be more inclusive
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: and sort of think outside our own, you know, box
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: that we've been in for so long about what makes
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: a good chef.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So they actually they did do that. They
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: made a concerted effort and were kind of successful pretty
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: much out of the gate, but they became victims of
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: their own ambitions in twenty twenty when they canceled the
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: James Beard Awards, not just for twenty twenty, but for
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and they blamed it on the COVID pandemic,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: which made sense, but people were also like, well, you know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: everybody else has been doing this stuff over zoom, Like,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: why would you cancel the whole awards.
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Apparently an insider in the foundation who was also like
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: either a Shepherd, journalist or whatever, came and told everybody
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: else that's not why they canceled the awards. They canceled
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: the awards because every single person who won this year
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: in reality is white. So they just didn't give out
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: the awards and that caused a huge stir among everybody
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: in the industry.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I mean they covered it up. And
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: this was after trying to do the right thing, and
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: they canceled, like you said, the next one just because
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: they were still sort of reeling from what had happened
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: in or they canceled I'm sorry in twenty twenty one
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: because they were still reeling from twenty twenty. Finally came
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: back last year in twenty twenty two with the first
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: awards in I guess three years, and they had a
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: total overhaul of the committee and how they judge. They're
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: saying that you know, there's an ethics committee now that
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: vets nominees just on a personal level, and then also
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: said and the way we're judging, like we need to
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: think about the criteria in different terms as well moving forward.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they still don't have it figured out because this
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Ethics committee has gotten has become such watchdogs or guard dogs,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: I should say of James Beard Awards that they hire
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: private investigators to investigate the nominees. Part of the nomination
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: process now is being grill over zoom or probably in
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: person now by private investigators working on behalf of the
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: James Beard Ethics Committee, and that soured people in and
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: of itself. So they've just they're like a pendulum that
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: somehow misses the middle every time. It just keeps going
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: from once I do another and I think they're on
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: the right track. And somebody gave them credit. They said
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: one chef said that we're seeing. What we're seeing is
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: quote an institution self correct in real time, which is
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: you know, that's fair, and maybe they should take off
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: another couple of years until they get it figured out.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: But they're trying at least, and they have been successful
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: some years, but they just there's just been misstep after
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: misstep as they try to figure this out. It's a
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: big systemic issue, and they're kind of like the vanguard
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: of the whole thing, so people are looking to them
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: more than other places too.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there were two incidences this past year in particular
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: that made the news. One was that a finalist for
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Best Chef in the South, an Alabama chef named Timothy Hansis,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: was disqualified a month before the awards because they were like,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: he's one of these guys that breaks his staff, even
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: yells at customers. He denied this stuff, said, well, it
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: sounded like he was like, hey, listen, I'm a passionate guy.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: But this stuff is not how it's being characterized. But
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: one of the real problems is they didn't communicate that
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: to the committee members that they had disqualified it, like
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: they found out about it in the press and a
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: lot of other chefs and judges, because I think there's
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: like six hundred ultimate judges, the chefs and food writers
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: and journalists all over the country. A few of those quit,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: one called it fake virtue signaling, one smashed his previous award,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: another step down in protest. And then this Kentucky chef
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: named Sam before was a finalist for Best Chef South East,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: and she said that she was questioned, like given basically
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: no notice, questioned over zoomed by these investigators over social
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: media posts where she had spoken out against domestic violence
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: and sexual assault. And the way this goes the way
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: this happens is anonymous tipster's calling in, so you can
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: call in and anonymously say anything you want about someone,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you're being investigated without any
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: like prior, you know, warning of what is even going on.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, she's on this zoom and
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: they're saying that she was it was targeted harassment and
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: bullying because of some tweets that she sent out sort
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: of exposing stories of sexual assault, but she never named anybody.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: And she told the people, She's like, how can you
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: accuse me of targeted harassment if after an hour you
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: still don't know who I'm targeting, Like I didn't name anybody.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: And she was, you know, obviously really upset about this,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: and it just seems like there's too much secrecy around
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: how it goes down. These investigations. They don't have a
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: real true like day in court for the accused. It's
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: just that they're kind of just almost surprised.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: It seems like, and.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: You know, before you know it, then they're not in
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: consideration and they're like, well, wait a minute, I didn't
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: even get a chance to plead.
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: My case in full.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: It sounds kafka esque.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Bourdain has always been very critical.
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: He was. He had a lot of bad stuff to
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: say about the Beard Words over the years.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, funny stuff, a lot of it about not
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: being inclusive and like, who do you think you're kidding
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: by saying you're now inclusive? Stuff like that, and it's
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: just like he wasn't an award guys. He's kind of
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: like the people who bashed the oscars and just like
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: just a bunch of industry people, you know self, you know,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: patting each other on the back.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I'll always remember a tweet from him at like right
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: when Baby Driver came out and everybody was crazy for it.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: All it said was fab driver, but he didn't say
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: f and it was just three words that completely undermined
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: everybody else.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: It was really kind of masterful ordine. Love that guy.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: So yeah, one thing though, Chuck, just to wrap this
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: all up to me, James Beard is still such an
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: endigma and confusing. I have no idea what he would
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: make of this this award scandal stuff.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, none of the awards came about until
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: he was gone, so he might be like, I don't
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: even like the idea of these awards.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Who who knows not?
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: Or maybe he would, Yeah, we don't know.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: If you want to know anything more about James Beard,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: there's a lot out there. You can also start with
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: his cookbooks too, which are allegedly quite good. Chuck's gonna
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: let all of us know about his onion sandwiches.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: I'm going to do it.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Since Chucks that I'm going to do it, we've just
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: triggered listener mail.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, by the way, that onion should be a sweet
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: white onion, So a idelia.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Is a great choice.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Only a sweet yellow onion.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: It is yellow, but maybe the sweet overrides the color.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: What you don't want is a red out again.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, I could see that. That's a that's a real
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: harsh yeah.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna call this reality. We did
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that episode is reality real and got a lot.
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: Of great feedback on it.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: People seem to enjoy kind of breaking their brains momentarily, Hey, guys,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: just listen to that episode. Thumbs up for daring to
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: tackle such a subject that one could get really in
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: the weeds about. For example, one could argue that each
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: other is humans, reality is different from one another. The
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: whole idea of perception is reality, and everyone's perception is
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: different than one. Mask must ask what the definition of
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: reality is? I kind of talked about that a little
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: bit to okay, anyhow, all that aside, one question I
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: was never able to understand why it's even a question.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Is if a tree falls in the woods and no
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: one's around to hear it doesn't make a sound. Doesn't
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: science tell us that sound is caused by friction and vibration.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: That tree would have to pull off one heck of
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: a trick to fall without causing any kind of friction
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and vibration. And furthermore, what makes us so important that
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: a tree would put on a friction and vibration show
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: only when we're present? Am I missing something here with
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: this tree sound issue? I've just never understood why that's
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: a question, at least because we are in the presence
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: and know about science. But then again, science also can't
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: seem to talk some out of the flat earth theory either,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: which is reality for some love the pod. Keep up
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: the great work, and that is Corey and Omaha, Nebraska.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Corey. I guess to kind of answer
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: that a little bit as best I can. I can't
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: even this has been too my brain's broken. Let me
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: just stop for well.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: I think you kind of answered it in that episode.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess we do. Yeah. It's funny
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: that Corey brings us up because there's something that hit
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: me the other day too. Like when we did the
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: reality episode, I totally understood everything that we were saying.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: It all made sense to me.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: And then an airplane flew overhead, and I wondered why
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: I was witnessing hearing an airplane fly overhead that I
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: was not expecting. That has nothing to do with my
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: life other than the fact that I can hear it
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: and it's flying overhead. Why would that exist? I don't know.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: The best thing I can come up with is that
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: it exists for those other people, and they just happen
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: to be passing by the space that I'm occupying at
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: the time, and I'm within earshot, so it happens for me.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't can't quite connect those dots.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: So I kind of get what Corey's saying there.
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I get it too. I I don't like to
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: think about this stuff.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I love it. I'll think about it for both of us.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Oh great, Well, if you want to get in touch
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: with this like Corey did and break our brains a
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: little further, we love to hear from you. You can
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: send us an email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: H