Latest / Business for Humans / Client Conversations: From Burnout to Belonging: How Intentional Choices Changed Lena’s Career

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Client Conversations: From Burnout to Belonging: How Intentional Choices Changed Lena’s Career · Business for Humans

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I'm Jamie Gennaro, business coach, consultant, and founder of Practica Consultant.
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Great. And then like I said in
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the email, it's going to be obviously super casual. You know, the podcast.
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And I'm just going to go over some of the things I mentioned in the email.
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Like I'm just, I think what's always interesting to people is the journey.
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Like nothing about me, but like what have your outcomes been?
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What reflections have you had? Just things like that. And then And we'll just see where it goes.
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But I'll make sure that I'm watching your time in about a week.
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I'm trying to taper it off. And this is one of those episodes. Yeah.
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I've set aside an hour for this. So if it goes a little bit over.
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I love it. Don't worry too much about me. I'll be fine.
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Okay. Perfect. Great. Okay. So I'm just going to jump in.
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So, Lena, thank you so much for being willing to have this conversation with the other podcast.
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Although you might find it. We worked together. If you're a business owner. When was it? Maybe this.
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Thing that happens we started could that be
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right yes i believe well actually
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i believe we started a little earlier if you're into but
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but yeah we did definitely work together up until up
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until last year there's gonna be a thing so why don't you tell everybody a little
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bit about your background and what initially and then that prompted you to reach
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out to me what you felt like you needed help with and i also think it's kind
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of fun the way that you found me because it So, like,
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kind of unique and interesting.
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So maybe just talk a little bit
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about your background and then we can talk about that little piece, too.
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So if you're an entrepreneur and you already know this, when it's in that down
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space, it's up and it's down.
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And when it's in that down space, it's really easy to just go right into those
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two family states of me and tier.
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But I would say that I'm, as a person, always been the type of person that always
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looks to sort of evolve and grow and not stay put in the same place,
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both physically but also emotionally, mentally.
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But we just go right into it. And it's interesting because worry,
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more than fear, because sometimes fear is beneficial to forward momentum.
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But worry happening in the organization, things were changing that I didn't
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experience as very positive for me.
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And overall, I think also questioning a bit where I was in my career.
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Until that point, I had felt, I think, that a lot of the places where I had
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ended up in my career had been a bit of the result of, like,
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by chance, like happy accidents.
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And while I felt that, you know, I was very grateful and happy about the places where I had gotten.
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It felt like those decisions were driven more by coincidence than intentionality.
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And I had a very good relationship with the manager I had at the time.
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And we spoke about this and how I felt like, yeah, I wasn't quite sure whether
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this was the right place or the right role for me long term.
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It meant a great deal to her and it was a gift.
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And she lost it. He was not afraid to discuss this and for me to explore this further.
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She lost a ring. And so he encouraged me to seek out some coaching.
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And I did. But I had never worked with a coach before and I honestly didn't
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know quite where to start.
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But you said that I should just go with someone that feels right.
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As a side, I'm like many other people. I enjoy pop culture and TV and movies.
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And I had been watching this particular television. this television show called
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the bear and i really really enjoyed season two i think a lot of people did
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it was a great a great a great season and was that show just had me reflecting,
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thinking about you know the great leadership lessons and as as it would have
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it at the time i was also very active on linkedin and there is a particular
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corner of linkedin if you know you You know,
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where everyone is eager to sort
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of have these inspirational posts about where to find, like, how to...
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Sort of bridging pop culture and the leadership lessons and sort of a LinkedIn context.
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And I saw all this talk about, really got in there and grabbed,
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about how, you know, leadership and TV series.
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And I didn't see anyone mentioning the bear. And I was like,
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well, if anyone, like if there's any, if there was ever a TV show that was interesting
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to talk about in terms of leadership, it should be the bear.
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And just out of curiosity, I just like typed into, I forget it was Google or
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YouTube. I was just, you know, leadership lessons, the bear.
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And there was your podcast episode.
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And I was like, listening to it and thinking, yeah, no, she really hit the nail on the head.
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And then of course I realized, oh, you also do coaching. Well, perfect.
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Maybe this is exactly what I've been looking for. and the estate would have it.
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We go straight into emotions. Yeah, it worked out. I just, I love that story
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because we go straight into self-pity.
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We go into shame. We go into guilt. We go into scarcity. We go into fear.
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We go into common place for us to be aligning on. And a lot of times we just shut down.
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And the fact that it's connected to like a TV show that we were inspired by, I just love.
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But also I tell my clients all the time, the ones that are sort of fostering
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their own business and trying to reach the right client, You can't do it without
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really connecting to people in a way that feels really true to who you are.
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And what was ironic about that podcast episode was I was so self-conscious about recording it.
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We've talked about this, but for me to like relay leadership lessons to TV shows,
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like I come from like a film and TV background.
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So I'm always looking for like the subtext and what are the writers thinking
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and where did those ideas come from? So I was truly inspired by that episode.
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I mean, mainly that one episode, but also by the whole season.
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I'm compelled to talk about it, and I just love that that was the door.
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That you walked through, which is also funny because I don't get that many people
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walking through the podcast door, but I just love it because I feel like it's
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the best way for people to really understand who I am and what my approach is.
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So I just love that story, and I love that that was our connection point because
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I think it just kind of set us up for another rest of the journey.
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So I want to talk a little bit about what you just said, what was happening with you at your job.
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So let's recap too. Like on paper, that job was pretty great.
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Like you were getting paid well. It was a company that was sort of moving at
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the time, moving in a direction that seemed exciting to you.
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There were some interesting prospects.
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And I think you knew because you're tuned in to yourself, you knew it wasn't
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quite right for you that you were looking for something else.
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And I think you used this metaphor a lot.
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I'm a farmer. I want to be able to kind of foster growth.
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And I don't feel like I have that. So I want to recap that piece.
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But it took you some time and I think this is really important to get from the,
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this job is pretty good on paper, although it doesn't feel aligned, to actually.
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Leaving that job and finding something that felt aligned because
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i think that's the moment where people have a lot of at
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the end of the year difficulty so that's sort of realizing like
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what's the risk if i leave this worry what's the risk if i stay didn't matter
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and like really managing that part in the middle is i think we're coaching to
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be helpful but it took lessen it took some time so maybe talk through that a
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little bit too that i've definitely been so.
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Yeah, I mean, there are, of course, some other factors contributing to how I
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was feeling and how I was doing at that place of work.
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It's a little bit like a warm blanket. I'm like, oh, here it is again.
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Over time, it became an increasingly more challenging place for me to thrive.
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And I knew that this wasn't the place for me to be long term.
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I knew there would be an end date.
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I just didn't know exactly when that end date was coming.
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Go into this guilt and shame to force ourselves to stop. The workload was becoming
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increasingly stressful.
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And yeah, I mean, it was taking a toll on me as well.
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And that's also then difficult because finding
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a new job and looking
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for other opportunities is something
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that requires a lot of energy and
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it requires you to have focus and have capacity
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for that for that kind of work because at
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the end of the day it is really hard work to find the
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right next plate of employment and you
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believe you have I was really grateful that I that I had you as a as a coach
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and as a sounding board because I think I was definitely reaching a point where
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I was about to be burned out and it doesn't matter that also was difficult because
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I had these ideas of people being burned out,
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being people that were juggling a million things.
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Perhaps having, you know, little children and all these other commitments outside of work.
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And I had, you know, for the first time in my adult life, really sort of stepped
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back from a lot of my other commitments outside of work.
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And I was really just focusing on work and trying to get by doing that.
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And I still felt that there wasn't enough bandwidth with the mental load and
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just the overall workload that I had on me at the time.
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And here's what's going to happen thinking that okay to
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reconnect it to real things i am
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sort of well enough and this is on paper a
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good job like i have a great salary i have
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some great colleagues in what you can
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do this this surely isn't what being
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burnt out is it's as easy as that and i and
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i sort of imagine that is an emotion being burnt out is a binary that it is
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either you're not burnt out you are burnt out emotion rather than it being a
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matter of degrees and rather than sort of visualizing that like your heart pumping
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either i'm fine or i am this like pile of ash,
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burned out for me i am business is fine it's more so like i'm on fire but not
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like i'm on fire in the kind of good way that we say when something's great
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like i'm on fire i do nail this but like i'm on fire like the house is burning
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are connected to me and there is a crisis still even though.
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It doesn't matter what the belief is, quite frankly. I'm not completely destroyed.
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I'm not a pile of ash yet, but if I don't address this now, that is what the outcome will be.
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And that took me some time to come to terms with that.
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Just because there's still something left of me doesn't mean that this is not a crisis.
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I love that. That's so important. Because I think for high-achieving people
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such as yourself also, there's a point, too, where you can manage so much because
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you're a high-functioning,
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high-level, strong work ethic kind of person.
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You can manage a lot. And so you're already managing likely more than other people.
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So you think that that's like the normal equilibrium, right?
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And then even like one bit lower than that, you're like, oh,
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no, I'm not performing at my best.
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And there's a lot of like blame and shame in that process of determining,
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is it OK for me to take a rest? Is it OK for me to take a break?
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And I think you're I love the metaphor, like the binary. I'm not ash, so I should be OK.
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But again, you're likely functioning at like 150 percent. Because for me, it's busy.
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Instead of 100% or even like 75%, which is really like the healthy range.
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But because you're so used to functioning at that high level, there's a lot of that.
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Like once you come down to even 100%, there's like guilt around it.
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Like, oh, no, I should be functioning at a higher level.
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I'm not allowed to take a break. Which I think is really key.
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But I think there's this other piece where if we're managing this very fragile
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equilibrium, as soon as you add something new, you have to take something off.
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But I think that's another thing where guilt comes into play,
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where it's like, well, I don't have kids and I don't have these other obligations.
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I shouldn't have to take something else off.
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But you have to find that balance for yourself, not comparing yourself to other
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people, but like knowing when that time is to take a break so that you don't
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become ash. Like, it's okay to take a break before you're broken.
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You're not awful. Okay, let me just be the first person to tell you if you're
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running a business, there's different kinds of stress.
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And that's becoming increasingly more noticeable to me now where I am in an
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environment where I have a lot on my plate.
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I have a lot to do. So if you're making money in your business,
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just give yourself a huge pat on the back.
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I don't care how much money you're making. I don't care how much money you're
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making. If you make any amount of money this year, offering quarter one of 2025,
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give yourself a huge pat on the back. I'm not going to bed worrying about what
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I'm going to get done the next day.
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Even though I know I have a massive, like I have a lot on my plate for sure.
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There are a lot of things to juggle and to make happen. but realizing that there
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might also be other types of stress.
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And by that, I mean, do you have a manager that is supportive and that understands you?
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And what's the work, like the culture in your workplace?
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Is it a safe space? Do you feel like you have psychological safety to be yourself and to speak up?
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And does anyone listen if you say, hey,
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actually, I think what we're doing right now is counterproductive to
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the overall objectives that we say that we want to achieve
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and there are lots of and and do you have a
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power to influence i'm laughing so much today i don't know why i find this topic
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like really funny i think that as well was something that we know it's coming
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i didn't quite realize i think at the time the degree to which that was time
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and i'm laughing also having an impact on on my well-being like.
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Always changes yeah i think that's really important
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to note also because again and then it goes back
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in this role of i just call it high achieving
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because i don't really have another great description but
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i think in this in this role that we take on and i put myself in the same bucket
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we first look at ourselves like what are we doing wrong like is this feedback
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from my manager accurate in the world and we have to like go through that cycle
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for a while before we can look at them objectively and say,
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actually, maybe that isn't the kind of feedback I need to thrive. And maybe that's okay.
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And maybe this isn't the kind of environment where I'm thriving.
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Even though I love my colleagues, which I think is a really big,
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important piece to a lot of people, they don't want to leave the comfort of
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that really nice colleague kind of ecosystem which you had.
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That's a hard thing to leave. Although we can say we can
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still be friends with those people outside of work if we have those
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kinds of relationships but it takes a while also
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to be reflective enough and confident enough
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to understand that maybe that manager is
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not going to be the person that's going to get you to the next level
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and being okay with that because we blame ourselves
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like well maybe i need to be a better performer or maybe i need
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to do this differently and i think it's also okay
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to understand that this person is not
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going to be the person that's going to get me to the next level so i
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either need to usurp them in some way
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which is not creating a great dynamic or i
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need to find a place where i'm in a culture where those
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managers are trained to support and
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guide people like me and i want to
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say one last thing anything is important about you specifically is that you
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are a visionary and this is something we talked about a lot in the coaching
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you saw that but you didn't necessarily see it as a as a place where you could
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grow into and really step into those roles you were still a little bit playing small.
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And then when you got into an environment where that was coveted
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and people were like if you're excited about that skill set you start to feel
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like you can open up and expand into that place whereas in the other environment
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you felt like you kind of had to like tear that back because Because you were
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just taking on more work and you weren't getting like the actual recognition
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you needed for that skill.
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I know it doesn't feel like it should work.
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I know it. That's why it sounds so weird to even say it because I'm a mad person. So what changed?
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So now you're saying you have a lot on your plate. What I've learned.
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It could be overwhelming to some people. So I get scared. But the environment feels different.
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The manager support feels different. So what else?
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Was a shift for you where you don't go to sleep or go to bed feeling like overwhelmed
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with the amount of things you have to do?
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What else happened in that change to make you feel more balanced now?
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One of the first things was how I approached what I was looking for in a new role.
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So just to also give some context, towards the end of my previous employment,
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we agreed that I would take a severance leave.
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So I left the company and had some time then to find my bearings, so to speak.
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And yeah, reflect and just figure out what would be the most appropriate next steps.
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And yeah, I realized from us working together that.
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But I wanted to become more, like you said, a farmer.
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And also just to give people a bit of context why I say farmer,
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because I'm not into actual farm work, is because I've previously been working
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as a customer success manager.
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And in our industry, customer success managers are usually compared to salespeople
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who are then described as the hunters.
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They go hunt new deals, new business, whereas the customer success managers are farmers.
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And I really resonated with that analogy.
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That's why I was interested in customer success management, because I like the
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idea of nurturing the relationships and just building on what you already have on a customer base.
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But then with working with you, I also came to realize that it's not just the
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work with customers, sort of the CS work that I find interesting.
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It's the whole ecosystem in which we operate.
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So I started envisioning myself more as someone who would want to be a gardener
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to share on that analogy of the farmer.
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I want to not only help set the groundwork and nourish the environment in which
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the hunters, the farmers,
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anyone else is operating in any organization, I want to make sure that everyone thrives.
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So also internally, making sure that we have sufficiently good processes,
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people are set up for success in their work. So not just being a customer success
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manager, but just like a success manager.
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Let's make sure people are successful with what they are doing here in this
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organization. I want to say stand up for yourself as this is your...
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I interviewed for many positions where, you know, on paper, I would have been a great fit.
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Like I have all the right skills, the right qualifications.
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I would have jumped right into a team where they already have everything built,
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ready to go. You can just take this and run from day one.
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And I knew that that wouldn't be right for me because that would just be a little
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bit too easy or just a little bit too familiar.
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Like I wanted something a little bit more where I could contribute into shaping
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what the work would look like and actually help improve the processes and the
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ways of working and enabling success internally in the organization as well.
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That it does work, that it's not super woo-woo, that it is where our businesses
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grow our businesses. That's what I found in my current role,
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which I'm very, very thankful for.
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Also, I found a manager that I really enjoy working with.
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And I think that was key to me being in the position that I am today.
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Knowing and being intentional that this is what I want, so this is what I'm looking for.
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And full transparency like you know those months where i was looking and interviewing
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for jobs and things weren't clicking it wasn't the right bit because like i
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said i i had something very,
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particular in mind for myself works better for
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there were moments where i thought oh gosh shouldn't i
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just take this job like
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just so that i know okay this is what it is and then maybe over time of you.
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Music.
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Know I thought about settling many times just because of the uncertainty that
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I was in it's you know I don't I don't enjoy that uncertainty but I'm very glad that I did,
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didn't do that and that I stuck around and now ended up where I'm now where
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I feel like I have much more support and I'm able to contribute also to the
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overall well-being and contribute to the overall ecosystem in the organization as well.
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Yeah, I think that's important. Two points that I think are important there.
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This idea of taking a little bit of time, you got lucky because you got a severance.
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But I think for people considering burnout leave or considering just taking
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a sabbatical between jobs,
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one of the things I love about coaching while you're in your old position before
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you make the transition is it's not risky to stay in your current job and make
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it better and bolster it and put some new boundaries on. in place,
23:45
which we worked on together.
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I think that's important to changing old patterns and behaviors because you
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might think this environment is slightly toxic or I'm not jiving with this environment.
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So I'm going to just desperately jump to a new job.
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And sometimes people take no time in between. And what I see happen time and
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time again is that they land in a new job that's also not a great fit.
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And then they're just spiraling and it really can deplete their their self-worth
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and their self-esteem to just jump into another job that is basically the same
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job, but it felt different because there's that honeymoon phase.
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So I think that part of the transition is important to start the coaching or
24:27
start the process while you're in your current job, start that application process
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so that you can wait it out the way that you did.
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Some people don't have the luxury of, you know, being on a severance.
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So I would say just take your time So you don't have to deal with,
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I mean, you're going to deal with the discomfort of your current job.
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But that time feels so critical so that you land in the position that feels like the right fit.
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And one thing that we talked about that I talked to a lot of clients about is
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this idea of find the culture that feels like a good fit.
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Be shopping around for that culture, vet that culture, rather than just blindly
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applying to the jobs that feel like the right fit, because you do need to feel
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a part of an environment,
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especially for you and the kind of role you want to fill, that's going to help
25:18
you get to the next place.
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So I'm curious, since we had talked about that, how did you kind of vet the culture?
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How did you vet your new manager to see
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if they were going to be a better fit for you yeah so
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this is probably one of the the most difficult things i
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found in the interview process because how do you
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vet for for culture when you interview you only get to you only get to interview
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with a few people and it's you know speaking from experience like there's there's
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a lot of ways companies can make themselves appear to have a great work culture
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externally that don't necessarily speak to what it's like on the inside.
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And so I focus primarily on having a good manager.
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Of course, managers can change, but I always think that if you don't feel like
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you have good chemistry and...
26:13
With your manager, then it doesn't really matter if everything else is great
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because your manager is the one person that you're going to be reporting to
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and ultimately working the closest together with.
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And then I was also fortunate that as part of my interview process,
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I also interviewed with the Norwegian CEO for the company.
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And that was also great because that gave me a sense of the overall sort of
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values and leadership perspectives from the very top of the organization.
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I work for a very large organization, and so that was very helpful.
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Of course, I also had an interview with the head of HR, and it was very difficult.
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And I have to say, like, even when I signed the contract, I wasn't 100% sure
27:09
if it would be a good culture fit.
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But I had, you know, inquired a lot about, you know, how is it working there?
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Are there, you know, what is it like? How do co-workers work?
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Is it a hybrid workplace?
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Are people in the office all the time? Like, how do people work here? How do they get along?
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And what is the tenure like? Like, you know, are there a lot of people here
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that have been working here for more than three years?
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Which I also found there's a lot of people that have worked for this,
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you know, for the company for 10, 20 years.
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And that have, you know, just transitioned into different roles,
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as well as there being, of course, people that have maybe worked there for three to five years.
27:51
So these were all things that I thought, OK, this is all great.
27:57
And then one final thing that I also thought was very positive is that they
28:01
do have a sort of an employee social club that most people are part of.
28:06
It's voluntarily to be part of it because you are deducted, I believe,
28:10
the equivalent of like two euros per month,
28:13
to be in membership dues, which goes back to the money, goes then back to the
28:18
different initiatives that the club organizes.
28:22
And I thought that was a really great thing, that there is this sort of mini
28:27
organization within the organization that is just in charge of ensuring that
28:32
there's different activities and things that we do together as co-workers.
28:38
So I thought that was very positive. And yeah, I suppose I took a bit of a leap of faith as well.
28:47
And knowing that, you know, at the end of the day, you have to just be there and feel it.
28:52
But knowing that I had a good manager and that I also really looked up to the CEO, I felt that,
29:00
I should be in good hands. And so far, I've been here now for almost four months.
29:06
I would say that has held true.
29:09
Great. That's obviously a relief for me to hear after the work that we did together.
29:15
But I also think there's one other little piece to that.
29:19
And it might seem less important and maybe superficial, but there's also kind
29:25
of an instinct that happens. So you do the vetting process. You ask the questions you can ask.
29:30
The things that are important to you, which you did. And I think your questions were fantastic.
29:34
And you wanted to see if you had chemistry with a manager, also huge.
29:39
But when you go to sign that contract, and it's kind of like anything in life,
29:44
there's never someone standing next to you going, this is 100% going to be the right fit.
29:48
And here's the crystal ball. And we can tell you this is going to be great.
29:52
But I think there's an instinct. And we have it when we go into interviews where
29:55
it's not going to be the right fit.
29:57
And sometimes we just suppress it because we're like, but I need a job. So who cares?
30:02
All these red flags are going off, but I'm just going to like pretend like they're
30:05
not there, but they're always there.
30:07
We always know when there are red flags and we always know when it's like,
30:11
it's feeling pretty good.
30:12
Like maybe there's a reason I should question it. Maybe I should ask more questions.
30:16
Maybe it's not going to be the right fit, but if there aren't any blaring red
30:20
flags, it's the best thing you can do, right? Like all you can do is just,
30:24
you know, do your vetting, but then feel for, is there resistance?
30:31
Like, do I have a weird panicky feeling when I walk into the office?
30:34
Do I have a weird feeling when I'm around the CEO or my manager?
30:38
Those things are also important because our body always knows.
30:42
And I know that's like a weird woo-woo thing to add, but I think it's huge because
30:46
I've been in tons of interviews where I'm like, this does not feel like the
30:50
right fit for me, but I'm going to do it anyway because everything on paper seems right.
30:54
And my logical brain is like, just say yes, who cares about the rest?
30:58
And I, every time I've had that feeling, I've ended up in a bad position.
31:03
Yeah. Yeah. No. And that also has, that also took me some time.
31:08
Like when I first started, I would say like the first four weeks of me working
31:12
there, I felt like I was a little bit more guarded.
31:15
It took some time until I really felt like, Oh, okay.
31:19
Like I can, I can lower my shoulders now and I feel more at home and I also
31:25
brought that up with my manager of course because I.
31:30
Hadn't shared the full extent to everything that I had gone through with my
31:35
previous place of employment and so I mentioned now I feel like I can finally breathe and,
31:45
I feel more at ease here and,
31:49
That was very, very nice to see. Yeah, that's great, too.
31:53
I think that that piece of sharing, I know a lot of people who have gone through
31:56
burnout, they find it and not that I'm saying you went through burnout,
32:00
but I think that's a story people take with them forward. And it's hard to talk
32:05
about sometimes, too, like what you experienced in the past.
32:08
But I do think if you have the right relationship with your manager,
32:11
it's good to bring that stuff forward because it's going to affect your work,
32:16
at least in the beginning. You're going to be bringing whatever baggage came
32:20
from the last place, whatever PTSD.
32:23
And it is important to just find a place for it so you can just put it away and move on.
32:29
But I think it's helpful if sometimes certain colleagues or your manager know
32:33
pieces of that story, they can help you move past it because none of those stories
32:40
are true anymore. It was a thing that happened in the past.
32:43
The concerns or insecurities that you built up at that place,
32:48
they're now gone, but they're still lingering.
32:51
You need a place to put them down.
32:54
And sometimes it's helpful to have that conversation. So I'm happy that you
32:57
pressed your manager enough to have those kinds of conversations with them.
33:02
No definitely and it was also important to me because
33:05
I felt like I wasn't as long as I still had
33:08
that guard up I wasn't showing up fully and
33:12
authentically as myself because I was still having a little
33:15
bit of a guard and a shield up and I've I've
33:19
already been told that I I can sometimes seem
33:22
like I'm a bit intimidating or or you know
33:26
so I which I I
33:29
in my mind if you know me and you've spent more than like 20 minutes
33:32
with me you know that I am very much an approachable I'm
33:35
a softie but I have I what my
33:39
uh what's sometimes referred to as the the the resting bee face uh which is
33:46
just uh you know an unfortunate thing I can't really do much about it so it's
33:50
you know so when people also on top of that don't know me they they might think
33:55
oh she's maybe a little bit unapproachable.
33:57
And if I'm on top of that also carrying this shield or this guard around myself,
34:02
then certainly I cannot seem very approachable.
34:06
And just being able to let that go and just be honest and like,
34:11
hey, this is who I am and this is what I came from. I'm really happy to be here
34:15
and that I don't have to worry about that anymore.
34:17
But this is where I came from that allowed me to.
34:23
Be more present and be more authentically who I am now in my interactions with people.
34:29
Yeah, it's so great. It's so great. And the reason that we got back in touch after, you know,
34:36
kind of ending our coaching program together and then you moving into this new
34:40
position, but I wanted to create a program to support people who are in that
34:46
burnout phase, but don't know they're in that transition phase.
34:50
And I reached out to you because I feel like your story is so helpful and your
34:55
transition has been so successful.
34:59
And, you know, just going on that journey with you for me too,
35:03
was just, it was an honor to be able to work with you through that, that phase.
35:08
And I'm so happy you ended up where you are on the other side of that and like
35:12
owning all your skills too.
35:14
Cause I think that's so important, like really owning and stepping into your
35:18
gifts and your talents and not letting some work environment or,
35:22
you know, certain people limit you or make you feel like you're not as amazing as you are.
35:29
So I love that you have the support. But that was why I reached out to you.
35:34
And I just really appreciate you sharing your story because for people who are
35:39
in that moment of transition, it feels so isolating.
35:43
It's so painful and you just can't see, you don't have that crystal ball.
35:49
You can't see that there could be something better over here and people really
35:53
hold on tightly to what they have for all the right reasons.
35:57
But I love your story because it shows people that once you kind of move through
36:01
the paces of that journey,
36:03
you can end up somewhere that is just such a better fit for who you are yeah
36:09
no thank you and you're you're working with you has been immensely valuable
36:13
in this process i i dare to think what what it would have been like navigating this without you,
36:20
but i also think the fact that it the fact that i had you as a resource and
36:26
that we'd had all these discussions and that we'd done all this work reflecting
36:31
on what it is i want for myself and
36:34
where it is that I want to go that enabled me to actually get that because it's
36:42
very unlikely that you're going to get what you want if you don't know how to ask for it.
36:51
And that was exactly why I wanted to just work with a coach is to be more intentional,
36:56
just to not like end up somewhere by chance I wanted to be intentional about
37:01
that next step which which I did and and it was,
37:05
so important that I was so I'm I'm very grateful for the work that we got to
37:10
do that was amazing and thanks again thank you so much for sharing your story
37:15
and yeah we will definitely stay in touch yeah thank you.