Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / What You Need to Know About Buying a Business with Barry Moltz

Transcript

What You Need to Know About Buying a Business with Barry Moltz · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

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  Three, two, one, zero.
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  Ignition.
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  Lift off.
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  Ending small business failure.
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  Welcome to the Small Biz Chat podcast with the number one small business expert, Melinda
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  Emerson.
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  Melinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you the information
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  you need to succeed and live the life you dream of.
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  Now here's your host, the small biz chat lady herself, Melinda Emerson.
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  Have you subscribed to the small biz chat podcast?
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  Well, it's time.
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  Every Wednesday, we offer listeners bite sized actionable tips to start and grow a successful
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  small business.
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  In just twenty minutes or so a week, you can get a ton of insight and resources to propel
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  your business forward.
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  Be sure to subscribe to the Small Bitch Chat podcast today.
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  Hi, everybody.
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  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady, America's number one small business expert, and
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  I am so excited to welcome you to another episode of the Small Biz Chat podcast.
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  In fact, this is the last episode of the Small Biz Chat podcast in 2025.
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  And I have one of my favorite small business experts here as a guest.
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  His name is Barry Maltz.
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  Barry Maltz is one of my favorite small business experts and let me tell you why.
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  When I was a struggling entrepreneur, let's just say twenty years ago, Barry wrote this
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  amazing book called Bounce And I was ready to throw in the towel.
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  I was ready to go get a job.
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  And I read his book and it energized me and it gave me hope and it gave me a plan.
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  And that's how I ended up becoming the small business lady.
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  So it is an honor for me to always have him on my show and to honor him as one of the first OG
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  small business experts with one of the best underrated business books out here, but he's
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  written several more since then.
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  But, Barry, I always give you homage when I have you on my show.
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  So welcome back to the Small Bitch Chat podcast.
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  I really wish you talked to my wife so she would read one of my books.
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  She she says I live with you.
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  I I hear that stuff all the time.
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  I don't have to read any of your books.
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  So but thank you for having me.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  No.
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  Listen.
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  Here at the Small Bitch Chat podcast, our mission is to end small business failure so we
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  go and get the best so that we can give you exclusive information that otherwise you have
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  to pay a bunch of cash for, a bunch of cash.
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  So today I'm so excited to have Barry on the show because what we're gonna be talking about
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  is what you need to know before you buy a business.
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  Barry has transitioned from just the generalist small business expert to now he really helps
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  people with mergers and acquisitions, people who wanna sell and people who wanna buy.
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  And so with our Next Ag CEO Summit coming up in January, right?
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  January, I thought it would be really important just to see that conversation with experts in
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  the field.
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  So I'm so excited to talk to you Barry today just about that.
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  So can you give us just a, give the people a quick background on who you are, how you got
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  into business, and then let's get into, you know, what people really need to know before
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  they buy somebody else's business.
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  I don't wanna say problem, but let's say business.
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  No.
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  I I mean, listen, I I, you know, started my career, as you know, with IBM, and then I
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  decided to go off and start my own businesses.
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  And I've had three businesses over the last twenty years.
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  The first one went out of business.
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  The second one, was kicked out by my partner.
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  When I finally sold the third one, and paid back the bank, the million dollars I owed them,
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  my wife said, you know, if you wanna stay with me, don't start any more businesses.
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  Right?
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  So I got involved in a bunch of different businesses.
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  You know, the first question about what you need to know, I think one of the biggest
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  misconceptions, Melinda, is that I'm going to buy a business.
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  It's already a successful business in quotes, and it's going to run itself.
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  And it just doesn't.
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  Especially if you buy a small business, you'd expect at least for the first period of time
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  really to be an owner operator, where you've gotta have some expertise not only in the
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  business of the business, but also how do you run the business?
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  How do you manage people?
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  How do you read your financial statements?
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  If you don't have that information upfront, you really shouldn't need to get some training for
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  it just like anything else.
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  Barry, what would you say are the top three things that people need to know or they need to
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  ask if they're thinking about buying somebody else's business?
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  Well, I think the first thing is in your hands well well, let me go back for a second.
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  What impact does the current owner really have on the business?
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  Is the business really all about them?
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  In other words, do they have all the relationships?
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  Are people really buying that person?
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  Or when that person leaves, is all the customers gonna go with them?
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  So that's the first question you have to ask yourself.
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  The second that you have to ask yourself is what's the trend look like for this business
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  when you buy it?
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  We all hope that the trend is gonna either be the same or better.
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  And then what role, what secret sauce can you really bring to that business?
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  And I believe if you can't bring any secret sauce to that business, you probably should
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  find another one to buy.
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  So tell me about the process.
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  Like, how does it work?
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  Like, where do I if I wanna buy a business, where where do I go to look and find that
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  business?
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  So let's say you wanna buy some kind of main street business.
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  I say a business that costs, you know, less than a million dollars.
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  Right?
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  There's some really great websites like biz buy sell that you can find a business and sort it
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  by your area and by what industry you're interested in.
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  And you send in a note saying that, hey.
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  I'm interested in buying this business.
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  Usually, kind of broker gets back to you.
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  You sign a confidentiality agreement, and then they send you an overview of the business.
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  And that's really where you start.
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  The the key thing is you have to figure out in your mind what's that business worth.
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  And the second thing is, is the information you're given, is it really verifiable?
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  Is it really true?
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  Are they really telling you the story, or are they just really trying to hide the ball?
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  The biggest question that I usually ask the owner is, why are you selling this business?
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  And, you know, a good answer is they're retiring.
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  You know, they've got some other kind of issues, whatever it is.
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  But a lot of people are just selling it because they're trying to dump someone else's problem
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  on you.
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  Right?
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  So you just have to make sure that that's not the case.
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  So, usually, what the process is is you get information, you talk to the owner, you figure
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  out what the business is worth versus what they're asking, and then you send a letter of
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  intent, which basically says, I'm gonna buy this business for this amount of money and
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  here's some other terms.
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  Maybe it's cash up front.
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  Maybe it's a loan from the seller.
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  Maybe it's, earn out over time.
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  The two sides agree.
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  They sign a piece of paper, which says, hey.
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  We agree.
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  We're gonna sell the business this cost, this price, and we're gonna do further due diligence
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  on the next forty five days.
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  And either side can get out of it.
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  Now just remember, what the assigning that agreement for you as the buyer, it guarantees
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  they won't try to sell the business to somebody else, sort of.
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  Right?
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  They're not supposed to.
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  So you go for the next forty five days.
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  You do due diligence on the financial side, and we can go through a whole list of what due
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  diligence really looks like.
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  Again, you wanna make sure that their financial numbers match their tax returns, match their
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  bank statements, and what does their internal data really look like.
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  And then you need to hire a lawyer that's going to put together some kind of purchase agreement
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  for you to really buy the business.
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  And there's all sorts of things that go into that, Melinda.
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  You know, it's a long process.
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  What what that's what I actually the you just fed into my next question.
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  How long does the typical, like, you know, we always talk about things like sales cycles and
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  stuff like but how long from the time you say, okay, I wanna buy this business, it's in the
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  energy sector, it's an electrical contracting company, how long does the dance, because
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  people aren't just willing to sell you their baby, right?
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  Unless their baby's really a lemon, right?
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  So how do you, what is the process like of you identifying this business, actually sitting
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  down, going to talk to maybe the business owner, maybe their spouse, and you being like,
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  okay, what kinds of questions do you need to ask in that conversation?
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  I mean, know you just talked about, okay, why are y'all selling this business?
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  And it could be health, it could be retirement, it could be kids don't want it, whatever,
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  right?
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  But don't you have to think to yourself, okay, you don't wanna grow, you don't wanna buy a
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  business you can't grow, right?
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  I mean you've gotta figure out what the upsell potential really is of the business.
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  Right?
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  And how do you figure those kind of things out?
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  You know, let's go back to the first question.
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  I mean, I think that dance could take a long time.
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  Right?
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  So that dance could take two weeks.
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  That dance could take four weeks.
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  That dance could take three months until you have a letter of understanding, a letter of
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  intent.
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  And then once you sign the letter of intent, usually, it takes anywhere between forty five
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  and sixty days, depending on how much due diligence, you need to do, depending whether a
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  bank is involved.
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  If it's a bank is involved, add add another thirty to forty five days for that.
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  If the SBA is involved, add another two months to that.
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  A lot of times the lawyers drag this thing out so they get some additional fees.
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  But in the end, you're trying to figure out is the business at least gonna do what it did
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  previously over the last couple years.
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  Right?
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  That's gotta be your bottom to justify the business.
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  Right?
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  Because most businesses, especially service businesses, sell for some kind of multiple of
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  profit, some kind of multiple of EBITDA, some kind of multiple of cash flow.
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  Services businesses usually sell for somewhere like two to four times whatever their profit
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  is.
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  Now, obviously, other businesses with intellectual property, might be able to sell
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  for, you know, multiples of their EBITDA or of their, revenue.
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  But you've gotta figure out what is the trajectory gonna be of the business once you
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  take it over.
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  I understand what the trajectory has been once, you know, what in the past, but what's it gonna
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  look like in the future?
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  That's why you're buying a multiple of the profit.
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  And how long is it gonna take you to recoup what you paid for the business?
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  I would tell you that if it takes more than three years on the outside four years, it's
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  probably not a deal you should do.
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  And by the way, Melinda, there's very few, quote unquote, deals out there.
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  There's very few steals out there.
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  Right?
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  If it seems like a steal, it seems like it's too good to be true.
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  It is.
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  Guess what?
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  It probably is.
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  It always is.
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  Right?
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  There's no there's no, get rich quick schemes out here.
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  Now let's talk about this concept of absentee owner.
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  Right?
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  Because I keep hearing, and I've heard this in the franchise world, but I've definitely heard
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  this in the, oh, I'm gonna buy this business and hire a manager and I'm still gonna Can you
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  talk about that for a minute?
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  Because I feel like that's a misnomer.
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  There's a lot of overconfident corporate people out here that are not thinking that thing all
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  the way through.
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  I think it is.
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  Well, first, let's talk about a franchise.
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  With a franchise, you're buying a system.
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  Right?
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  You're buying a process.
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  You're buying an access to the brand.
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  It doesn't mean you still don't have to go out and hit the payment every day and work hard to
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  run that business because the customers aren't gonna automagically come through the door.
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  Right?
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  I really believe that before you hire someone to run that business, you've really gotta get
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  involved and run it yourself.
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  And then maybe after a couple years, then you might wanna hire someone.
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  But it's
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  really creeps.
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  Creeps.
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  I mean, because I I'm just like, you gotta work yourself out of a job.
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  I I don't think I feel like people wanna hire a manager or, you know, or somebody else to run
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  the business, an operations person.
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  They're inviting that person to steal from them.
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  Are they not?
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  I mean, that that's what
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  I Listen.
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  There there's honest people out there.
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  But, again, how do you know what a good job looks like unless you've done it yourself?
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  If you want an absentee business, go buy a piece of real estate.
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  Right?
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  That that doesn't take any management at all.
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  It's just the market value is going up and down.
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  But if you're gonna have a business that's gonna involve some kind of people, you're gonna
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  have to be in there close on with your hands on to see what goes on.
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  Now when you first buy a business, what are the things that you need to like kinda look at?
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  Right?
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  Obviously, you talked earlier about what influence does the business owner have on the
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  sales and the customers.
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  But what else do you gotta look at?
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  I mean, because you've got you've got employees, you've got operations, you got the
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  tech stack.
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  Like, there's a there's a couple of things in there you immediately need to kinda go and look
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  at.
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  What would you say they are?
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  I would wanna understand.
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  Are the are the employees staying?
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  Are they happy?
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  Right?
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  Are they gonna ask for additional compensation and and, different compensation?
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  Are the are your if you have a business that has a concentration of customers, let's say
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  that 80% of your business is five customers, you've gotta make sure you secure those
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  customers or you're gonna go out of business.
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  Right?
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  The second thing is you've gotta make sure you understand the cash flow of the business.
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  Because, Melinda, you know as well as I do, every business goes out of business for the
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  same reason.
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  They run a cash flow.
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  Right?
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  So what does your cash flow look like?
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  And then as you said before, what does the process look like, and can you improve upon the
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  process, over a period of time?
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  I don't think it's a good idea for you to make any drastic changes on day one.
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  I think someone should really listen, understand what the business is, and over time,
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  make the changes you need to make it.
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  Because these things can go south really quickly.
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  You could lose cuss your major customers.
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  You could lose your key employees, and you could really end up with a pile of crap.
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  Yeah.
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  You you have never lied about it.
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  So so let's talk about the money.
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  Right?
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  You know, if we if we know you and I both know that 90% of the small businesses in America do
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  not make a million in Which revenue, means these businesses aren't as expensive as people
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  think they are.
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  I think when people think of buying a business, they think, Lord, I need $2,000,000 to buy a
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  McDonald's, right?
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  No, can you talk a little bit about you know, the the lending opportunities that are out here
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  when you want to buy a business that's already earning revenue?
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  Yeah.
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  I I think listen.
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  I'm not big fans of banks.
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  Right?
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  I think bank is a four letter word.
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  Right?
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  I believe that banks, you know, will give you an umbrella when it's not raining and then take
• 15:22
  it away from you when it starts to ring.
• 15:23
  Right?
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  But that being said, they do have to lend money, right, to small business owners.
• 15:30
  Right?
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  And, again, they will lend you several $100,000, whatever it is, as long as you
• 15:36
  personally guarantee it.
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  Because remember, you're not gonna get out of a personal guarantee.
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  So if you've got a house or any other assets, if things go south, they're gonna they're gonna
• 15:45
  come for you.
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  But, again, if you're gonna get a bank involved, you gotta add at least forty five
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  days to the process because the bank doesn't really wanna make a decision.
• 15:54
  Right?
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  And if you go to the bank, you're gonna have to show them how are you gonna pay this money
• 15:59
  back.
• 15:59
  Right?
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  Based on your cash flow, how are you gonna pay that 200,000, $300,000 back?
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  Now that being said, there's a lot of businesses out there that are for sale for less
• 16:08
  than $100,000.
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  Right?
• 16:10
  As you said, it doesn't have to be millions of dollars.
• 16:13
  There's a lot of services businesses that you can buy for a small amount of cash.
• 16:18
  Now one of the other things you could consider is, should I buy this business, or should I
• 16:23
  start my own?
• 16:24
  The build versus buy thing is very, very real.
• 16:27
  Right?
• 16:27
  What are you really by by giving this person a $100,000, how far in the future are you really
• 16:33
  jumping?
• 16:34
  What kind of advantages do you really have than if you started yourself from scratch?
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  And I think that it's much easier to continue and improve a business than start one from
• 16:43
  scratch.
• 16:44
  Oh, I'm 100 I'm 100% cosign that.
• 16:47
  I mean, you know, it's so interesting.
• 16:49
  So for years and years and years, I've been like, start a business.
• 16:53
  Start a business, start a business.
• 16:54
  But now I'm like, there's this group of people out here between the ages of 45 and 55.
• 17:00
  And I'm like, y'all don't have time to operationalize a brand new idea.
• 17:05
  But you guys have assets and have credit scores and have resources where you could buy a
• 17:11
  business, you could buy multiple businesses and do a roll up strategy and grow a pretty large
• 17:16
  business in really three to seven years and another business that you could sell and go do
• 17:22
  something else.
• 17:23
  And I just think I want people thinking bigger than oh let me just, I'm gonna become a
• 17:29
  consultant.
• 17:29
  It's like yeah no, I just don't think that that's the smartest way to do it, particularly
• 17:34
  because there's just so much inventory out here, right?
• 17:37
  You know, we've got this silver tsunami going on.
• 17:39
  Can you
• 17:40
  talk a little bit about like the availability of businesses right now?
• 17:44
  Listen.
• 17:45
  There's a lot of business out there because there's a lot of people that wanna retire.
• 17:48
  Right?
• 17:49
  There's actually a changing of the generations.
• 17:51
  Right?
• 17:52
  But, again, I think the key question you have to ask yourself, Melinda, is how can I improve
• 17:58
  this business?
• 17:59
  What skills do I have that are gonna take this business to the next level?
• 18:03
  And if you don't have an answer to that, you probably shouldn't buy that business.
• 18:07
  That's why most people buy a business where they have some kind of understanding,
• 18:12
  expertise, or something like that in the industry or the, you know, or or the field.
• 18:18
  You know, people are retiring at record rates.
• 18:21
  The stock market, so, you know, in the recent years has done really well.
• 18:24
  So people wanna get out.
• 18:26
  So they're trying to pass whatever value they have onto other folks, and their kids don't
• 18:31
  wanna go into the business.
• 18:32
  So there's there's tens of thousands of listings.
• 18:36
  I would even say hundreds of thousands of listing every day on the website about people
• 18:40
  trying to sell their businesses.
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  And these micro businesses actually are pretty hard to sell, so you might find yourself with
• 18:47
  something you're interested in.
• 18:49
  I love it.
• 18:50
  I love it.
• 18:50
  Well, if you had to give someone, like, step one, step two, you know, what would you say if
• 19:00
  someone is interested in buying a business?
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  What do you think the first thing is that they should do?
• 19:07
  What am I interested and passionate about running?
• 19:11
  That's the first question.
• 19:12
  I mean, I had a friend who wanted to own a restaurant.
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  I go, you have no experience running a restaurant.
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  He goes, no.
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  No.
• 19:16
  I love eating at restaurants.
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  I'm like, it's a different kind of thing.
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  Right?
• 19:20
  It's just not the same.
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  What do you have passion for?
• 19:24
  Right?
• 19:25
  And then how much money do you have or can you get to have to invest in a business?
• 19:31
  And and, again, the second thing is once you buy this business, how much money are you gonna
• 19:35
  be able to earn through that business?
• 19:37
  Right?
• 19:38
  Because you gotta pay yourself something.
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  You can't just pay yourself nothing.
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  You're gonna have to survive, especially after you put down some money.
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  But make sure that you're passionate about it and you believe you can make a difference.
• 19:50
  And so then I would do is I would surf on the web, right, just to see what's available, talk
• 19:56
  to some owners, see what kind of deal, and just, you know, do it like you're looking for a
• 20:00
  Airbnb.
• 20:01
  Right?
• 20:02
  Just kinda look around and see what's available, And then you'll see what's, really
• 20:07
  what you're really attracted to.
• 20:09
  I love that.
• 20:10
  I love that.
• 20:10
  Alright, Barry, tell me something.
• 20:12
  What is the best piece of business advice you have ever been given?
• 20:17
  The best piece of business advice I've ever been given is I I kinda go back to, Bill
• 20:23
  Clinton campaign slogan when he said it was the economy stupid.
• 20:28
  And I always say in every business, it's cash flow stupid.
• 20:31
  Right?
• 20:32
  You've gotta look at the cash flow of the business.
• 20:35
  Right?
• 20:35
  How much money are you gonna have every single month to pay your bills?
• 20:38
  When is your revenue gonna come in?
• 20:40
  It's all about cash flows.
• 20:41
  It's not about profits.
• 20:43
  It's not about revenue.
• 20:44
  That's what it's about.
• 20:45
  That's the first thing.
• 20:45
  Second thing is it really is all about not what you're doing, but who you're doing it with.
• 20:51
  Right?
• 20:52
  Do you think you can groove with these news employees?
• 20:54
  Do you like the culture?
• 20:56
  Right?
• 20:56
  If you don't think you can work with people, you probably shouldn't be in that business.
• 21:00
  I love it.
• 21:01
  I love it.
• 21:01
  Well, thank you so much, Barry.
• 21:03
  Third piece is listen to Melinda Emerson.
• 21:05
  Goodbye.
• 21:06
  That's my third piece.
• 21:07
  You are so good to me.
• 21:08
  Listen.
• 21:09
  I am so excited to have you, on my podcast today, but I'm even more excited to have you as
• 21:15
  a guest speaker at the Next Act CEO Summit.
• 21:20
  You guys, it is taking place this coming January.
• 21:23
  It's a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, January.
• 21:29
  We're doing it on a Saturday for all y'all that are still working.
• 21:32
  We're gonna make sure that you, it's so much information.
• 21:35
  That's why we're doing it over three days.
• 21:37
  And Barry, I'm so excited for you to be here and really gonna be participating with us
• 21:43
  because we're gonna be breaking it all down.
• 21:45
  We're have the franchise people, we're gonna have the buy business folks, business broker
• 21:50
  folks like Barry, and we're gonna have the funders.
• 21:53
  And we're also gonna have folks talking about the tech stack you need in these businesses
• 21:56
  too.
• 21:57
  So I want you all to head over to smallbizladyuniversity.com/nextactceosummit.
• 22:05
  Grab your tickets, right?
• 22:08
  Because this thing is big.
• 22:10
  Verizon is our lead sponsor.
• 22:12
  Verizon Digital Ready is partnering with us.
• 22:14
  We have several other brands that are coming in that are gonna be resources for you guys.
• 22:19
  Cause listen, it's no small thing to start a business or buy a business and we wanna have
• 22:24
  you all prepared the right way.
• 22:26
  So I just thank you all so much for listening to this latest episode of the Small Biz Chat
• 22:32
  podcast.
• 22:32
  I am Melinda Emerson, the Small Biz Lady, your host, and I will leave you with this.
• 22:37
  You never lose in business.
• 22:39
  Either you win or you learn.
• 22:41
  God bless everybody.
• 22:47
  Thanks for listening to the Small Biz Chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 22:52
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us next Wednesday for
• 22:57
  more fantastic information and interviews.
• 23:00
  You can find more sources and small business success strategies by visiting Melinda's
• 23:05
  website, succeedasyourownboss.com.
• 23:08
  Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next week.