Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Power of Networking and Disruptive Beauty Marketing with Mina Zandbar

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The Power of Networking and Disruptive Beauty Marketing with Mina Zandbar · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Speaker Anarchy.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ecta, and today I have a lovely guest with me.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: She is truly a veteran in the industry.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: She has over 25 years of experience, and she's a founding member of Chief, which is a network designed for women and senior leadership roles, expending their influence and also paved the way for others.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's a seasoned leader, GM in beauty and wellness, working girls omnichannel, brand e-commerce, digital marketing, product performance, marketing and sales for Wella Company, and just has so much experience.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I'm going to introduce you guys to Mina Zandbar.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Mina.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me today here.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And very nice to meet everyone on this call and have a conversation.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, likewise.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, like I was mentioning in the intro, you have such an amazing background and you've done such great work so far in the industry.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love for us to get started there.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you could tell us a little bit more about, you know, just how things evolved in your career, you know, within the industry itself and give us a little background on yourself.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it started from my childhood.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: You tell me when it started.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you I was four years old.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then my mom, my mom is telling me I was always have a thing for beauty and fashion.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was a little girl, and and my mom is telling me stories as whenever I was doing something or if they were telling me something I didn't like, I was putting like a little blush and then brush into my little launch bag and saying, I'm going to America.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: As you can, I can imagine and you can hear from my voice and my um accent.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an immigrant myself.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Canadian, American, Iranian girl.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I work my entire life, I would say, and I love what I'm doing.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very passionate about beauty and fashion and um health and wellness.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love and work hard and party hard and have the beauty in my blood and help others to enjoy themselves by using clean beauty products and enjoy their life and make a better version of themselves.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I got to Beauty Ward and I really enjoy what I'm doing.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you know, that's so interesting that you mentioned that, you know, even growing up, I think a lot of people or some of the most, you know, impressive people in this industry.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it starts very early, right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some sort of exposure to the beauty industry, or rather like through a consumer standpoint, you know, whether it's through a mother or any kind of figure in your life, like family or something, but there's always some sort of connection, you know, to childhood in some place.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very cool.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: It does, it does, absolutely.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask you actually, because you have so much experience, you know, you like I said, you were a founding member of Chief, and I want to learn a little bit about that because I feel like, you know, in our industry, we talk a lot about how much networking matters.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of people that tune in are like small brand founders, they're people who are, you know, either in entrepreneurship or they're going into entrepreneurship or uh, you know, whatever that might be.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes, you know, I get questions a lot, you know, for example, around networking, right?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I want to get your perspective on this because Chief is a beautiful, beautiful company, and it's all about networking.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to tell us a little bit about that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: What really started it off and where did the idea stem from?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I started basically I started joining myself um prior to COVID, and then in the COVID time, that was the best community you could have to get supports.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you imagine, the industry changed during COVID, right?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and I truly believe, I'm a strong believer.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Every strong woman has another woman behind her um to help her to get where they're where they're going.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and that community started to be stronger, chief has started to be even stronger during COVID time.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you imagine, industry changed.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: We all started working from home.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was so many unknowns up there.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't have the communications, the connections, the friendship you used to have in the past, just because everything was changing.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And in the first few months, it was it was harder because Teams and Zooms are not in the place they are today.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: They were not getting used the way they're getting used today.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And having that community of support, brainstorming together as how are we gonna manage through everything is happening at this point, how are we gonna manage our team, the younger generations, how are we gonna hire people even during that time?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: It all came from this community.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: If I wasn't part of this community, and if we didn't have this community all together, I'm not sure where we would be at this point, and how we would maneuver through all these unknowns and minutiae in that time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So having a community is always important.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I learned somewhere at some point, it was saying a very beautiful code.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Your connections are actually your network, are your net worth.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So having the right people in the right room with you to be able to bounce back ideas and challenge each other in the right way, it's something you would never change anywhere else.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're not part of the Chief, if you're a woman, you're looking for mentorship, if you're looking for getting it support, for sure I would recommend to join Chief or other communities like Chief and get the mentorship you need.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a beautiful community.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's trying to help each other and it gives you a lot of scale in different areas, but you're not getting it in just being on your own.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: See, that's the thing, right, Mina, because I love that you said that and I I love the shout out that you gave there because I completely, completely agree with you.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're not part of a community where you are getting some sort of mentorships, like you have to get there.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I can tell you, I remember growing up, you know, I think when we grew up, it was very hard to find mentors.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know if you agree, but uh for me in science, it was a struggle always to find female mentors, you know, that could really show me how to do this.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or there was just a lot of, you know, I hate to say it, but there was a lot of competition, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of times people were not sharing information.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: They were not, you know, sharing insights and and whatever.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember even in my 20s, right?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I was like longing.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can when am I gonna meet, you know, people and women that are ready to share information, you know, and provide a guiding light and uh offer that mentorship.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that when I look at Chief and I look at an initiative like this, it makes me realize how far we've come.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it was very difficult for us growing up.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, there were no networks like that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree with you.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And as a as a leader, as somebody who worked many, many years in this industry, I think some leaders are hoarders.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I say.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: But don't be a hoarder.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: You are a true success when you help others to be successful.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you truly believe that, then you're gonna help others to be successful.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Every sentence, everything you teach someone else, you're gonna learn something in advance.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And teaching others and being open to hear everybody's idea and having a diverse team, it will help you to actually fast track some of those success in your career, in your in your friendship, in your in the environment you are in.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like whatever you want to accomplish, it helps you to accomplish even faster by helping others to get to the next step.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so important to like exercise that whole idea of like, you know how people say pay it forward.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody says that, like, pay this forward.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I I feel like like now I'm I'm starting to understand like how far that really goes, you know, and I think a lot of us can relate that sometimes things might feel like why am I always the one that's helping people, or you know, I've had women say that to me before, like, you know, exactly I always feel like I'm extending myself to help others and like where's that?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I really feel like if we all just kind of live by that, where it's like you're doing everything you can to help somebody else, it will come back to you.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it does help.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: It it does come back to you.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and to have a network and a and a place where you can do that with like-minded people, that's that's a beautiful thing.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to ask Mina, you know, I want to ask you about Willa Company, because I know that you work a lot with and you have in the past with e-commerce and digital marketing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this is such a relevant field, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: For especially when it comes to networking, because none of us really know.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I don't think many people know how e-commerce truly works.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like digital marketing is always something we're trying to wrap our heads around because it's always changing, always growing.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, with TikTok and social media, it's very, very hard for normal, you know, entrepreneurs, brand founders to understand.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to like learn a little bit more about what what you think, you know, where is the industry now compared to like remembering it maybe 10 years ago.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where do you think we've come to in the in these areas?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Changed a lot for sure.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you, even in the last seven, eight years, we changed a lot at Vela.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: We are much modern today.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: We talk to our consumers firsthand versus going only uh through specific channels we used to go, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: We are a Vela professional company.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the company was built to talk only to professionals and servicing only professionals.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And by professionals, I mean like hairdressers, cosmetology licensed, nail artists, hair artists, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the artistry changed.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: We still talk to our professionals.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Professionals are the core and the heart of our business, but we talk to our consumers directly as well, because consumers are getting more and more educated, especially if you look at the few years of being in that COVID realm of the things, it changed the industry a lot.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people started to do um a little bit more at home remedies for hair, for nail, for skin, and everything else.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we are all going back to some level to the professionals because nobody can do it better than the professionals, but we are experiencing some things at home as well.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: We are educating ourselves.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ten years ago, internet exists, but it wasn't to the level it's today.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody had like two phones and two computers and one iPad at home and trying to like maneuver through all these gadgets at the same time.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays, like your gaming consoles even advertising to you the the hair care, the nail care, the skin care, everything to you.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So people are getting more educated, they are more cognizant at what they're eating, what they're using for their skin.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: The health and wellness is getting to the next level, and beauty is supporting that now.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like that 10 years ago.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything was in the market, it was full of like chemicals, but nowadays it's changing.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's very cognizant.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm using on my skin goes in my body, is as important as what I eat.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody reads and tries to connect to a product which it which it will talk to them, to their demographic, to their way of living and their beliefs and their values, like in a different way.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And also e-commerce changed, omni-channel change, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays you go to uh to Walmart, to Target, to Alta.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: While you're in one store, you have access to all other stores.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: You have access to millions of reviews to read others, like how they feel, um, how they use this product, what are the problems they are trying to fix or get healthy a specific product.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you have access to all of that.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years ago, it wasn't in the level it is today.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it's like, you know, the age of everybody knows what everybody else is saying, you know, about whether it's a product or a service.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the questions I actually had for you was that, you know, we deal a lot with, especially like in skincare, for example, you know, we deal a lot with things like marketing hype, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times people will say, Well, this isn't true.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: This product is just a lot of marketing.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then I, as a consumer, I had the question of where is that line?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, from a professional's perspective, like, you know, if you're creating information for your audience, your consumers, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you're using digital marketing channels, what should brand founders know as that line and that place to that sweet spot to be when it comes to creating content that people are actually going to be able to relate to?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think the for me as a consumer, I won't lie to you, you know, when I see something that's just a big marketing gimmick, immediately I'm like, that's marketing.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to buy something when I recognize that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I feel like a lot of times with small brands, and this is for all the small brand founders out there, I kid you not, I think consumers, if you try too hard, like they can tell, you know what I mean, that you're doing too much.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not, you know, everything isn't falling in place as it should, it's not landing as it should for them psychologically.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to know from your perspective, where do you think that sweet spot is for small brand founders, you know, when it comes to digital marketing?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I don't believe you have to be a big brand in order to be successful.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: More and more in the last um 10 years, we've seen actually brands they were born digitally and they are coming into the picture very authentic and and they're talking with authenticity, actually, they are winning.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think one of the things we all as a big company sometimes forget and don't see is that you have to stay authentic with your with your consumers and basically professionals.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you are not giving them education, if you're not telling them the truth, if if that message is not coming from the heart of your business, heart of your brand, it's not gonna resonate with consumers, only resident with the consumers when it comes from the heart of the brand.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to stay true to your core, you have to stay true to who you are, what is the point of difference between your brand and other brands because there are millions of brands out there.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you start like going with the same message, very corporate looking to your point, very brand-looking, branded looking message to our audiences, they're not gonna relate to it anymore.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because consumers are much more educated these days.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: They want to understand what is the point of difference of the brand, what is the reputation the brand is bringing into the picture, into the world, like the sustainability side of the things, the or being organic, being clean, not having as much chemical, being environmental friendly, being kids friendly, being like health friendly, like you have to follow what the trends are following.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: The new generation, the new demographic are all looking for something healthy and sustainable, not only helping themselves, whole helping the environment as well.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you always have to stay to your core, I would say, if I want to summarize it and stay authentic.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do not look like corporate content and jargles.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and see, that's so that's so interesting to me that you say that because sometimes I think I saw somebody recommend this, and I don't know if you agree with this, but some marketer I think I was seeing on social media, they were suggesting they're like, you know, if you're a smaller brand, stop wasting your dollars on these ridiculous marketing campaigns that are like, you know, like the professional videography and the, you know, you're spending so much money on this stuff versus creating just genuine content, you know, that's like educational for your consumers and educational for your your target audience.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that resonated a lot with me, you know, even as a consumer.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, you know, I wish more brands would be authentic.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, if you have a if you have an acne treatment, show me your acne treatment, you know?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does it do?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Does it, how does it work?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, show me on a real person.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think a lot of times, unfortunately, we get so wrapped up, you know, in this world of everything is like so glitz and glamour, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: With marketing and and the and the way things look and how they're presented, we forget that that value of education, you know, in terms of consumers.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I love what you said, and I love how you explained that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of one of the examples I would give you, I used to work at some point of time um on eat cosmetic.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And in that time, it cosmetic was a brand new brand.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I we worked at the company I was working at that time, Getty Renker.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: We worked on Eat Cosmetics and we worked with Jenny very closely.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Jenny, who was the founder of the brand, actually, she was suffering from rosacea for many, many years.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she created that brand and she was so authentic.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: She was the face of the brand.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: She was showing her face in like in the pictures and in the educations.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Half of it is covered with what she created, and it was beautiful and it was a glowy, like a skin, and half of it she was like clean with the rosacea and what is underneath those products, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And showing the difference and saying how this product is helping me.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: I created for myself because I was I was suffering from rosacea for many, many years.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was no product in the market.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is how I came up with this brand, and this is how it helps my brand.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: The brand started like growing very, very rapidly.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in three years, the brand was acquired by L'Oreal in that time.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: The whole story I wanted to say here is just because she was authentic, she created something, it actually helped her, and she wanted to help others, and she was not she to your point, she wasn't trying to hold that information and not giving it to others.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: She was coming into the picture, trying to educate everyone with her experience.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: The brand resonated with everyone, and the brand started boosting.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's there is still in the stores, in the in the premium stores, they're doing an amazing job.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not part of the brand, I'm not advertising for that brand, but I just can share the story as how the brand started boosting up and and why the brand started boosting up.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: They had quality, very good story to like back up their their quality of the products, and that's how they grow up.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense, and that's see, that's something I would gravitate towards as a consumer if I saw somebody who, you know, especially with like something like Rosacea, that's so easy to see on your face, and you want something to cover it up.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great way.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's brilliant that she did that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely brilliant.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think a lot of times for me, when it comes to beauty products, I just I don't know.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: As a consumer, it's just like show me how they're used, you know, like demonstrate it to me kind of thing, you know.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like we have back then, you know, back when I was growing up, I remember we had like, you know, QVC and all these channels that were sending you selling products, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they were demonstrate, like on TV, they were demonstrating like this is how you use the product, and that's what hooked you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you called the 1-800 number and and bought the you know, the goods.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like we with social media, we've gravitated a lot away from that because you know, social media now to me, I won't lie to you, I think it's more of like a oh god, I know if I go on social media, it's going to be selling me something.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's become this almost like as a consumer for me, it's like sometimes dreadful, you know what I mean?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't want to be bombarded with 50 ads, you know.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So my question actually is for you, you know, in that regard, for brands who are trying to like scale, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to really expand their presence, you know, when it comes to, you know, anything, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Just their presence online on social, whatever it might be.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: What are some critical first steps that they they could take?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a lot of fine-tuning that happens later, but the first steps in designing something where they can really show their value.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think to your point, social media is beautiful, but then sometimes it gets very overwhelming.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and often what happens with the smaller brands, they focus on one area and not multiple areas, and then they start like boosting their like ads like very often, and then it turns to be very overwhelming.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times they don't have closures.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of ads, good ads, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they have all these beautiful imagery and everything, but where the customer goes afterward, like when I see an ad, I want to be able to get some more education like about the product, and then from there, what is the next step?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: How are they gonna convert me to be one of their customer pool?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're creating an ad, I think you need to look at the 360 customer journey versus just looking at driving an ad and getting some clicks on your ad or getting a lot of engagements in the ad without any conversion.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's good to drive awareness, but at the end of the game, if you can't convert those people, then you're not educational enough.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have useful ads, you're engaging people to watch your ads, but your point of difference is not clear to your consumers as what you're offering to them and how you're gonna help those people with the problems or issues.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: They have or where they want to be in their journey, and that's why they're not converting.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, yes, I always say when you when you create an ad, look at your 360 customer journey, and what is the point of creating that ad and what you want to get as an outcome?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's number one.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, I would say stay stay on top of the technology.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like AI is getting more and more integrated into beauty world.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And what are the things you can do with AI is unlimited.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can create a really good content, you can create a very beautiful imagery, you can get like more reads about your customers.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Stay like on top of the technology and link the technology back, small, especially if you're a smaller company.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: You have a beauty of being agile and being fast.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of big companies need a lot of time to be able to change and to accept something new.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: But in a smaller company, you can test and learn, you can move very quick and fast, and you can leverage a lot of new tools in a short period of time because it's not as much costly for you to test and learn something new.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: So staying on top of technology is another thing I would say I recommend.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's solid because I think a lot of times, like for me, that's difficult.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I know a lot of us can relate to that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Staying on top of it is it can be a little daunting, but yeah, definitely.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like download the social media that you don't have, you know, stop running from TikTok.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of people in in the older bracket, they they stay away from certain you know areas like TikTok and these new platforms that are coming out.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's very important you're right to stay on top of everything.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the industry changed actually.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: People in the past they were looking at the quantity more than the quality, but especially after COVID, what I see is changing in the trend, people really care about the high quality products.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was in one of the stats I was looking at like 70% of US beauty buyers are saying they prefer the quality versus the quantity.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So in the social media, we get a lot of quantity of the brands, but the point of difference is who is offering me the best quality I want to get, which it comes with the authenticity.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It comes with point of difference, the education, how like organic that product is.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um is it natural?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it helping the environment?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it sustainable?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything, the packaging, the looking and field of the packaging, how modern the product is, how clean it is, the packaging, everything, everything.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: The the quality talks first now.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I completely agree with that actually, because uh honestly, you know, so many I've interviewed so many brands and I've this has come up time and time again, which is the idea that you know, if you don't spend money in making up, you're gonna get what you paid for that brand.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bottom line.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: What you pay for is what you get.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as consumers, we love having like 50 options, like for example, lipstick, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: You can buy 50 shades of lipstick that are red.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but which one are you gonna put in your purse every time you go out the door?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the question is like what which one is performing and giving you the quality that you want?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so, so important that you brought that up.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of times brands, from what I understand, feel the pressure to launch, like if it's like foundation month or something, right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like they'll launch a new foundation.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: If it's the time of year where you launch a new mascara, somebody will launch a new mascara.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, why are you doing that?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just because it's you know, just because it's common to launch these things around this time doesn't mean you need to clutter it, the entire industry with it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to make sure you understand what your product is, how to make that great, and then keep delivering that product, you know.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I I agree with you.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so fundamental.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Consumers are actually asking for more transparency more and more.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're really demanding transparency, and they really are looking at the product ingredients and what we are putting in their products, and they're putting their hair and then their nail or their face.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to be very clear and showcase to our customers what are the benefits of the active ingredients in our products and what is gonna do for them to manage their health and wellness of their skin, their hair, their nail, or anything.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that transparency is one of the key components of the conversations.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: How many how many people you would see in the past going to the store and taking a lipstick, taking the eyeliner and read the ingredients?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't see as many, but nowadays you go to any store, everybody's reading every ingredient because they everybody is aware, is educated as what ingredients are bad for your body and what ingredients are actually helpful.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's so true.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's a great thing, but at the same time, it really gives brands and entrepreneurs a lot to think about, you know, in terms of what are you doing, you know, whether that's whether you're using certain ingredients or not, or more importantly, for example, there there are some brands that I've come across in the last year or so and that are now approaching ingredients in a different way.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're saying they're doing things like putting the ingredient on the packaging still, but their hero ingredients, they will put it on there and tell you exactly what these ingredients do and why this matters to you and why you should be gravitating towards this product rather than just letting you figure it out on your own.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that transparency, I mean, you know, you spoke of it earlier.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: It obviously needs to be on your social channels, your, you know, your marketing and your outreach that you do.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can put that something like that on your packaging or your display at Sephora or Alta or wherever your retail is, you know, or wherever your website, that goes such a longer way, I think, than just okay, here's an inky list.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Figure it out.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just figure out what's in this.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree with you.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are definitely reading them more.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I read every single one every time I try a product, I read the whole ingredient list.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm one of those consumers.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you one more question.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I, and I think this is more towards the e-commerce side because I know you're you're really, really experienced with e-commerce tonight.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of times brands are trying to, you know, they're figuring out their business model with e-commerce.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so my question is, you know, how do you approach just the planning and new channel growth, you know, to ensure that you're successful in the long term with e-commerce?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how should you approach that?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a brand that's ready to take that step and, you know, kind of grow and put yourself out there for growth, how should you be planning that and and going about it?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a really good question.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I would say always go to back to your fundamentals and and make sure you have the right fundamentals.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: The fundamentals when it comes to e-commerce are called cars, content, the assortment, the rating and reviews, and and it's your marketing, right?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And search.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to focus on these four cores first in order for you to have the right fundamental and have a strong fundamental.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oftenly, what we say in the CPG world, we say 20% of our products pays 80% of our sales, and 20% of our products are what our consumers are really demanding.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on your hero products, understand what are the products that are making the biggest difference for your consumers and why, and then link that why to the other products you can you can get to them to help them to get to the next stage.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can do it through content, you can do it through the 360 digital acquisition.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you understand where your customer started, their journey, and then how they landed in your e-commerce and what are the things they're looking for when they land in your page based on their demographic, their like salaries, the age they are in in that point of time, and the issues they're facing in that time, what they're looking for, and then help them to get some answers to the questions they may have.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna help you to grow your business and sustain the growth of the business.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing I would say, focus on your like retaining your right customers because acquisition, we all know, is 12 times, 13 times bigger and more expensive than retention.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Retaining customers are very important.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Retaining your loyal customers is staying connected with them, asking them questions, asking them to give you feedback and take their feedback seriously and apply back to your business model and business in order to get to the acquisition and acquire more customers and add them to your retained and loyal customer pool.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Second thing, in the second arm, I would say you have to focus.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, when it comes to search, be sure you're staying on top of the trends.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: E-commerce is like I always say, is like a dog life.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Every year you use, you're losing seven years because it moves very fast, it moves very quickly.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do not get stuck in one place and focus on one only one place.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: You always have to look at the big picture and extend your arms and going into every direction.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Social media is important as influencer marketing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Influencer marketing is as important to be presented in front of your customers everywhere.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon is getting bigger and bigger with the supply chain, with the delivery, with the deliveries they're putting into the picture, is one of the key components of the e-commerce.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a smaller company, don't look it only at D2C.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: D2C is very important because it's where you get the data, it's where you get your customers' 360 journey, is where you can understand your customers' behavior.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean you don't have to be in like in different platforms because you have to be in front of your customer when the customer is looking for something similar to your brand or your brand particularly.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And having one or the other one is not gonna help you to grow.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have to play in every player, in every every pool of the um players, but probably with different products, with different assortments, not the same assortments going everywhere, but having an omni-channel approach, even in your small company, and understand what goes where and why, and and having a reason behind it is important and component of the success of the e-commerce.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, so in the beginning, then should we start with the like would brands start with D2C, or would they do something like an Amazon store as well as D2C?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: You always have to have a D2C.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, you always have to have a D2C because um D2C is where you get access to data.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Then you get access to unlimited data of your customers.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And D2C, your D2C is the place you can differentiate yourself from all other brands, right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because the content, the education, the things you're offering to your customers through your D2C, it's very different than the one page you have on Amazon and you have to put all the contents for the Amazon users.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: We see a lot of people starting like searching on Amazon and and looking at um looking at the rating and reviews and other experiences on Amazon.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: But some they purchase quickly from Amazon, some they purchase from the D2C platforms because they want to stay connected with the brands, because they want to get the customer service through the brand.coms, and because they're getting a different level of loyalty points, loyalty basically, like things from the brands versus getting it from Amazon.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: But both players are equally important.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be again in one or another one.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think you should like you should spread your basically power and like between not just these two.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: They are other pure players you can play with and have your products in the different level.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: More and more companies are opening up their online businesses to be marketplaces.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can see the Nordestrom are today, uh, Bullooming Dells of today, Maces of today.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Their online business is more of the marketplace.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can sell your own products, leveraging their websites, right?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like in the past, it's just the Nordestrom selling or Bullooming Dells.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: You see, more and more companies are opening up to be marketplaces.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they're carrying things online, which they're not carrying it in a store.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: So does this matter then, Mina?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you go to a retailer and you say, I want to be in, like, you know what I mean?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're approaching them as like a like a retail client, like a Sephora or an Ulta, do is this do they look at this kind of stuff?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, your Amazon sales and your your e-commerce sales to figure out how well you'll do in the retail environment, or does that not really play in?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: They see the awareness, they see the demand and the awareness, not necessarily the sales, because you don't share like across the retailers your sales numbers, but they see the demand.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: When they see a lot of demand in one platform, then it's a it's a good opportunity for brand to have a high awareness.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have in one place a like high awareness, especially in the big players, in the Bloomingdales, in the Nordstrom, in the Amazon side of the things, when you have a lot of demand, then your brand has a like it shows your brand has a good awareness and has a lot of demand from consumer side of the things.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: So of course it matters.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't, I mean, I personally don't understand how these things work.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm asking you, you know, because I think when whenever I hear about brands, you know, all of a sudden I see a brand and they blow they blow up and then they're available in Sephora all of a sudden, you know what I mean?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, what happened?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you were online only, and then uh from e-commerce you went straight to retail and you went in this.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I always I'm curious, you know, what is that whole process like, you know, and does one feed into the other kind of thing.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: But that's very interesting.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sephora has like different, a little different model though.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sefura is very unique, niche kind of the market and niche brands.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily have all the products like Amazon has or or Bloomingdales has or every other.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: They are going after a very niche smaller companies with the newness.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Something is coming with innovation, something is coming with the completely new kind of proposition of their brand.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's very different than any other player.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't say like Sefuro is gonna look at Amazon and say, oh, this product has a lot of reviews and a lot of demand on Amazon.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna launch it in Sefuro.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sefuro business model is very different.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why you see a lot of niche small brands are popping up in Sefuro and they are very successful.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because a customer who is going to Sefuro is going for that niche, unique small brand, not necessarily like big brands with a lot of rating and reviews and a lot of awareness.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: The customers are going to Alta are a little different than Sefuro.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: The customers are going to Target are very different than these two players.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Every customer is going to a different place for a different need and different set of opportunities and products.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's very, very interesting.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I I hope that some, you know, those of you tuning in who are uh brand founders and owners and you're looking for this.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I hope this has been really helpful for you because yeah, this is a very interesting world to me, Mina, because I'm not, you know, I don't see it from your angle.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing such amazing insights.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's so so helpful for our you know, our listeners because I know we have quite a heavy audience that are, you know, they're either founders or entrepreneurs.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's been an honor to host you and I've learned so much from you.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: For everyone tuning in, please.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have any questions, um if you want a part two, you know, where I can do a QA with Mina, I'll definitely ask and maybe we can do that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I hope you've loved this episode.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you guys have any questions, feel free to reach out to us.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you have any specific questions for Mina, I will pass them along to her.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you for tuning in and I will be back next time.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 38:46
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• 38:51
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• 38:53
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• 39:08
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• 39:51
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