Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #093 _STORY INSPIRE: Decisions that transforman with - Chase Hughes

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#093 _STORY INSPIRE: Decisions that transforman with - Chase Hughes · INSPIRE STORY

0:04
Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast
0:08
by night. All day.
0:09
Speaker 2: Good to see you.
0:15
Speaker 1: Good to see you, man. What's happening? How are you? Good.
0:18
Been really good.
0:19
Speaker 3: Just got into Austin last night.
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Speaker 1: I watched these videos of you describing this intravenous DMT experience.
0:28
And the first thing I said is I need to
0:29
talk to this guy about that. Like, that seems like
0:33
one of the most insane descriptions of anything that anybody's
0:36
ever experienced. Yeah. That I've ever seen online. Yeah. So
0:41
tell me about this experience. So it's.
0:46
Speaker 3: DMT and this guy makes it and they put it
0:50
into a pump and it's like an anesthesia pump that
0:52
you'd have in like an operating room. And essentially they
0:58
can adjust your like milliliters per hour dose to Like
1:03
they would use for anesthesia and like they launch you off.
1:08
You're laying– the.
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Speaker 1: Space is beautiful.
1:11
Speaker 3: They hold the space really well and they can– What do.
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Speaker 1: You mean by that? They hold the space really well?
1:16
Speaker 3: Like it's a beautiful space. Like it's this amazing place
1:19
where you lay down in the middle of the room.
1:21
It's like on a really soft pillow thing and great
1:26
music on and like it's very calm and these people
1:30
are just unbelievably calm and– good human beings to take
1:36
you through the experience. And the cool thing about this
1:40
pump is that you can adjust your altitude. So like
1:43
you could be in the middle of this and say,
1:45
I need to go up more. I want to come down.
1:47
If you need to take a pee break, they'll like
1:49
pull you down. You kind of go onto the runway
1:52
and then you go pee and you come back and
1:54
you launch right back up as high as you want
1:56
to go as fast as you want to go. So
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it's five and a half hours. And I did one
2:06
pee break, but it's DMT. Like the highest you can
2:12
feel on DMT, like the most you can see on DMT,
2:15
but it's five and a half hours of that. And
2:19
the next time I go back, we're going to mix Alzheimer's.
2:22
Speaker 1: Drugs with this. Why?
2:27
Speaker 3: To see how much I can bring back, to see
2:29
if it improves like the retrieval. Because, you know, like
2:32
when you're in the DMT space, you're like, I have
2:35
access to all this stuff. Like, oh, my God, I
2:38
wish I could bring this back. I want to bring
2:39
this back so bad.
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Speaker 1: And it seems like we're protected from bringing it back.
2:44
It does. It does. Like a dream. Yeah. There's real
2:48
similar comparisons to the dream state. Yeah. The dream state
2:52
is very strange. I've had like profound dreams and or
2:57
really bizarre dreams. And when I wake up, they're so
3:00
crystal clear. And I go to take a pee. I
3:02
have a cup of coffee. Yeah. I can't remember them anymore. Yeah.
3:06
I barely can grip them. They just slide through your fingers.
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Speaker 3: It's like we– there is a protective layer there.
3:15
Speaker 1: It seems like it has to be because if there
3:16
was anything that you experienced in the regular conscious state
3:20
that was that profound, you would remember it forever. Yeah.
3:23
Just think of a great thing. Just UFC fight this weekend.
3:27
I remember everything. Oh, my God. It's so like drilled
3:30
into my brain. And that is like nothing compared to
3:35
a DMT experience.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. And it just seems like I've never met someone
3:40
who's done DMT that would just– oh, yeah, it's a psychedelic.
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It's a hallucination. I've never met anybody that's actually done
3:47
it and then will just go back and say I
3:50
hallucinated something.
3:51
Speaker 1: There's a few people that say that. I've actually– I've
3:54
read this one piece by this guy. I forget his discipline.
3:58
I forget– but a serious academic and his position after–
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I think he did like 100 DMT trips and his
4:07
position was that this is all being concocted by your
4:10
visual cortex and your brain and your imagination. That was
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his position.
4:15
Speaker 3: I mean why wouldn't you go to Walmart on a
4:18
DMT trip then or Target?
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Speaker 1: I don't think that's what– I just think– because it's
4:23
very– disorienting and, you know, you really should sit still.
4:28
But I think that there's contrarians.
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Speaker 3: I mean, like in the DMT space, why don't you
4:32
just see a target or a 7-Eleven or something?
4:35
Speaker 1: Right, right, right. I see what you're saying. Something that
4:37
your imagination could concoct, like a dream, like in a dream,
4:40
you might be a target.
4:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And you had on Andrew Gallimore.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I did.
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Speaker 3: And he talked about this world making part of our brain.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 3: Man, that really hooked me in. And during the six
4:52
hour journey, experience whatever you want to call it um
4:57
at the end of i mean it's dmt like you're
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like it's just reality's gone like you like everything oh
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yeah you see all the stuff that you think is
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real goodbye it's like everything's gone and at the end
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of this i i on camera i asked if i
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was dead 39 times uh i wasn't concerned what the
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answer was i just was like am i dead um
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and Coming toward the end of this experience, I was bawling.
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I was crying. And it just felt like I had
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to wrap myself in some kind of ego in order
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to just return back here. To come back, there's no
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way for me to come back and not have some
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little ego thing. And it made me so sad coming
5:48
back that I just didn't want to come back at all.
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You know what I'm talking about?
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Speaker 1: It's like Avatar depression times a million. For people who
6:00
don't know what I'm talking about, when the movie Avatar
6:03
came out, it was so wonderful. These people seemed like
6:07
to live such a righteous, peaceful existence in the forest
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that people came back and they were depressed that they
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don't live in the Avatar world. Yeah. It was like
6:19
a psychological condition. That was– it was happening with so
6:24
many different therapists that people started calling it avatar depression.
6:28
That's brilliant.
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Speaker 3: It's got a name. Like in the 90s, there was
6:32
the Truman Show syndrome.
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Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right. People got into that. But I
6:36
mean how badass is your fucking movie? It creates a
6:39
psychological condition in people that wish that reality was like
6:43
your movie. Yeah. I love that. It did feel like that.
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Speaker 3: Times 10,000.
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Speaker 1: Times a million or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: One of the things that I didn't know happened was
6:55
my wife was with me, Michelle. And the night before
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when we were at their house, they just said, you
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can pick a vial. And I said, let Michelle pick
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a vial. And I was in the other room and
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Michelle was with this guy who makes the DMT. And
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he said, would you like to pray over this DMT?
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And Michelle did that. And I didn't even know she
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prayed over it. And the next day, and I'm not
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saying there's anything here, but When it started, the first
7:22
thing that happened was like these alien beings or whatever
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kind of pinned me down on this table and ripped
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me open like from pelvis all the way up to
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my neck, like all the way open. And I could
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hear my organs kind of moving around inside my body
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and they're doing something in me. And the second thing
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was they pushed my head back up on the table
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and this big drill bit went up inside of my
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nose like all the way to the back of my head.
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It didn't hurt.
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Speaker 1: There's no pain or anything.
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Speaker 3: And they were doing that for probably 45 minutes, a
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long time. And it was freezing cold. And then after
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this journey, I told Michelle about this. And she's like,
8:00
that's what I asked them to do. I asked them
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to fix your heart and your brain. I have a
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heart thing going on and I have a brain disease,
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which is why I was doing this in the first place.
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And that was the first thing that happened on the journey.
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I'm not saying there's causation.
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Speaker 1: Did you get looked at afterwards to see if they
8:17
did anything?
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Speaker 3: I haven't because they have to do a PET scan,
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and it's so much radiation.
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Speaker 1: Oh.
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Speaker 3: It's so much radiation I can't even hug or sleep
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with my wife or our two-year-old for like 48 hours.
8:33
It's a ton of radiation.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck that. What is the condition that you have?
8:38
Speaker 3: In the brain, I have mesial temporal sclerosis.
8:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about this the last time you were here.
8:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I had a seizure like the night before.
8:46
Speaker 1: This is the thing that you said that methylene blue
8:48
was really helping you with.
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Speaker 3: You know how many people have ripped that out of
8:52
our show and like made commercials for their company and.
8:55
Speaker 1: Stuff out of it? Oh, I'm used to that. There's
8:57
so many ads for me selling everything.
8:59
Speaker 4: Yeah.
9:00
Speaker 1: From coffee makers to hard-on pills.
9:03
Speaker 3: And if I don't take methylene blue for a couple
9:05
of days, I'll go back into seizure territory pretty quickly.
9:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
9:10
Speaker 3: But I will say, just to go back to this
9:12
dream thing that you were talking about. The way that
9:15
I get people to help understand this. I'll walk you
9:20
through this really quick. Let's say you're in a dream
9:22
right now. And I'm just here in your dream. We're
9:25
chilling out, hanging out. And let's say you don't know
9:30
it's a dream yet. And I look over and I say,
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what is that UFO spaceship over there? How far is
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that from your face right now? And you look over
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at that flying saucer thing. You'd be like, oh, it's
9:41
eight feet or something like that. But then if you
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know it's a dream and I ask you how far
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is it, you're still going to say, oh, it's eight feet.
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And then I ask, what is it made out of?
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You're going to say, oh, it's aluminum or whatever that
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thing's made out of. But there's no aluminum in your brain, right?
10:00
And then I ask again, what is it made out of?
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And eventually you'll get to a place where you say
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it's made out of me. It's made out of consciousness.
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Then I say, what is the distance made out of?
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That entire eight feet of distance is also made out
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of your consciousness. And Then I say, well, why did
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you have to manufacture eyeballs in your dream to see
10:21
out of? And then what are the photons? Like you're
10:25
seeing colors and all this stuff in your dream. There's
10:27
no photons bouncing off of stuff in your dream. The
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entire body is fabricated. Your eyes are fabricated. Like you're
10:33
seeing all this stuff without your eyeballs at all. But
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you made up eyeballs to see it all through. And
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then the distance, like from you to that flying saucer,
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you say it's eight feet. The distance is zero. Like
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there's not eight feet inside of your brain. So kind
10:47
of walk people in to show that everything that you
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would do, like not in a dream, like sitting here
10:52
in the studio to prove that this picture of water
10:55
is real, you could do identical. You could do everything
10:59
in a dream that you would do in waking reality
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to prove that something is real. And then you realize
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that the distance between you and that thing is A,
11:08
made up of consciousness, and B, doesn't exist.
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Speaker 1: Whoa. Does that make sense? It does make sense. It
11:19
does make sense because we assume that because we have
11:23
tools to measure distance and sound and touch and all
11:27
those different senses that we possess that this is what
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the world is made out of. Yeah. And it makes sense.
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Speaker 3: So like– and there's dream logic, right? So like if
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you're all of a sudden riding on your rhinoceros to
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the pizza factory, you're like, oh, yeah.
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Speaker 1: It's normal. Right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: So if you look at like a galaxy, it matches
11:48
the shape of DNA. If you look at the toroidal
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shape of like gravitational stuff, it matches the shape of
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a red blood cell. You look at an eyeball close up,
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it looks like a nebula. And if we just look
12:01
at as above, so below, like any of that is
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even remotely true, then dreams might tell us more than
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we think about what's going on here. In this– what
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we call reality.
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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the comparison between the universe itself
12:16
and human neural tissue? No. It's bananas.
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Speaker 3: Is it like a– It's identical.
12:21
Speaker 1: An image? Yeah. It's like an image of the known
12:24
universe with an image of– is it a brain cell
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or a human neural cell? I forget which one it was.
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But when you look at the two of them together,
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you're like, OK, is this whole thing a giant fractal
12:38
inside of a fractal inside of– If that's what infinity is,
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we'd like to think that this is what it looks like.
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That's a brain cell and that's the universe. Good lord.
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What the fuck?
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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
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Speaker 1: It's the same thing. So it's– at least it looks
12:55
like the same thing, right? When we think of infinity,
13:00
we think of what we are here on earth, that
13:04
there is no distance that you could travel where you
13:07
find the end. That the infinite universe just keeps going on.
13:12
But it's way crazier than that. It might be that
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the entire infinite universe that doesn't have an end is
13:18
actually a part of a cell that's in another being.
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That's in an infinite universe that has no end. That's
13:25
actually just a part of a cell. It's in a
13:27
part of an infinite– and it goes on and on
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and on. And we have some evidence that that might
13:36
be the case just in the weirdness of these supermassive
13:39
black holes that are in the center of every galaxy.
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So these supermassive black– we had Michelle Fowler on the
13:45
podcast the other day, a fascinating woman. She's an astrophysicist
13:51
and– Just discussing all the strangeness of the universe, the
13:55
more that we experience it, the more– the deeper they look,
13:59
the crazier it is. It's like the further the James
14:01
Webb telescope goes out, the more shit that they find.
14:03
They're like, what is going– what is that? How is
14:05
that there? This is not supposed to be there. They
14:08
think that there's a real possibility that inside every black
14:12
hole is a completely new universe, that it's some sort
14:16
of a passageway. So if there's hundreds of billions of
14:20
galaxies just in the known universe and every one of
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those galaxies has a supermassive black hole inside of it,
14:26
in the center of it, you go through that and
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you– are in hundreds of billions of new galaxies, all
14:33
with black holes. And then you go into those fucking
14:37
universes and you find creatures with brains and you get
14:40
to their brain and their brain looks like a universe.
14:43
And if you get closer and closer and closer, you
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might see hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with black
14:50
holes inside their fucking brain cells.
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Speaker 4: Yes.
14:54
Speaker 3: That was well said. That needs to be a short.
14:56
Speaker 1: But it's infinite. So there's no end to that process.
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It's not like there's us and then we are a
15:04
part of a brain cell of a creature. No, we're
15:06
a part of a brain cell that's a part of
15:08
a creature that's a part of a universe that's a
15:10
part of a brain cell that's a creature that's a
15:12
part of a universe. And that's what real infinity is.
15:15
There is no end.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. And we need less certainty
15:21
about this shit. There's so many people who are like, oh,
15:23
I have this figured out.
15:24
Speaker 1: What you said about coming back from the DMT trip,
15:27
about how your ego tries to kind of reclaim reality
15:30
for you, I think that is a genuine problem with
15:34
human beings today in which they cling to ideologies, to
15:38
political parties, to ethics, morals, religion, whatever it is, that
15:45
they connect themselves to inseparably. I think part of that
15:49
is– Just being afraid of the vastness of what this
15:53
experience really is. And the way to shield yourself from
15:57
it is to pretend to be sure. That's it. Yeah.
16:00
Speaker 3: It just gives me a little blanket of I've got
16:02
this figured out. I know what's happening.
16:05
Speaker 1: Security blanket.
16:06
Speaker 3: Yeah. We need less certainty in the world.
16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:13
Speaker 3: We need more people to say as far as we
16:15
know before they say some shit.
16:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:17
Speaker 3: Sounds sciencey. As far as we know. Why can't we
16:20
just put that phrase in front of more things? And
16:24
if you're doing DMT, it just or if anyone does DMT,
16:28
maybe it's a hallucination. But Terrence McInnes described it so
16:34
well when he said death by astonishment and. There's no words.
16:39
At the moment you try to like label anything that
16:41
you see in the DMT space, it's like you're destroying–
16:44
it's an act of destruction almost.
16:46
Speaker 1: There's no words for it. They don't exist because words
16:50
are sounds that we make with our face to describe
16:52
known reality. There's no words for that experience. Yeah.
16:56
Speaker 3: And we invented language for trading chickens and spices and stuff.
17:01
That's what language is for.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
17:05
Speaker 3: If you just look at like one little sciencey thing
17:07
like that's weird, like quantum entanglement. And then somebody says
17:12
we can't explain how this is like faster than light
17:14
or anything. Well, we can explain it if we go
17:16
to a dream and then say the distance doesn't exist.
17:20
Distance isn't real.
17:21
Speaker 1: Right.
17:23
Speaker 3: So I think that's– I want to know about the
17:25
UFC fight at the White House.
17:27
Speaker 1: To get away from Super Woo Woo for a second?
17:30
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18:35
Speaker 3: Was the temperature make everything different?
18:38
Speaker 1: It was perfect. No, the temperature was perfect. I was
18:40
very concerned about that. I was really concerned that these
18:43
guys are going to have to fight in the heat,
18:44
but that was not an issue at all. It seemed
18:46
like it was in the 70s. And it was the storm...
18:51
like miraculously just passed us. Like there was all these
18:55
weather warnings at one point in time, the fight was
18:58
supposed to start at 8 PM. And at one point
19:01
in time, uh, one of the weather experts wanted us
19:05
to start at 10 30. Yeah. Cause there were 10
19:09
30 that, which would have been a disaster. 10 30
19:11
at night would have been a disaster. Cause it's a
19:13
six hour show, you know, or close to it or
19:16
whatever it is. Um, I guess it was five hours.
19:22
But somehow or another, the storm just almost went around
19:27
the White House. I mean, I don't know. Mysteriously. I
19:31
don't know what that is. I don't know if that's
19:33
science or if that's consciousness. I don't know what steered
19:37
the storm or if it's just random luck. It could
19:39
have been all of the above. But all my fears
19:43
of the weather getting in the way of the fights
19:45
were– they were null. It didn't mean anything. And then
19:49
there was this long sort of ceremonial thing where they
19:54
had jets fly over and they played music and all
19:58
this different stuff. So by the time we got to
19:59
the actual fights, dark out, perfect. The weather was perfect.
20:04
So that wasn't an issue at all. And it was
20:06
just the– The magnitude of the event– I know people
20:11
saw it on television and it looked insane. Yeah. But
20:14
the magnitude of the event being there live– so there's
20:18
the event that's taking place on the lawn of the
20:21
White House and that has 4,000-plus people. The main event. Yes. Yeah.
20:26
So the actual UFC. So there's a bunch of military
20:31
guys that are standing up in the back. There's like 1,000
20:34
of those and there's 3,000-plus that are seated. All these
20:37
people are seated. Yeah. But then behind that, not that far,
20:42
like 100 yards, 200 yards, whatever it is. I guess
20:45
it's more than that. Maybe 300 yards. There's the ellipse.
20:49
The ellipse has 85,000 people who got in for free.
20:56
It's like in the whole White House ecosphere, whatever it is. Wow. Yeah.
21:01
So this area, they have giant screens set up and
21:05
they have– huge speakers and sound and so 85,000 fans
21:11
are watching the fights live on the screens and they
21:14
can see the lights of the fucking this claw dome
21:18
in the distance and they can see the White House
21:21
in the distance where the fights are taking place but
21:22
they're watching it on massive screens with commentary and it
21:26
was insane and you could hear them roar so you
21:30
hear the crowd from here and then you hear 85,000
21:33
people in this fucking You could hear it in the distance.
21:38
It was insane. It was insane. Just the magnitude of
21:43
it was insane.
21:44
Speaker 3: Unlike anything else you've ever done.
21:46
Speaker 1: Beyond. I mean, I'm a hyperbolic individual, and I'm always like,
21:51
this is the greatest. This is awesome. That was the
21:55
wildest experience that I've ever had in my life. 20-whatever
22:00
years of calling combat sports. There's nothing even close. Nothing
22:05
even close. It was the greatest night of fights of
22:07
all time. And it was the only night in the
22:09
history of the sport where every single fight ended by
22:12
a knockout. Did they all? Every single one. Seven fights.
22:17
Seven fights. Every one of them ended by knockout. Wow.
22:22
Which never happens.
22:23
Speaker 3: Which is unprecedented.
22:23
Speaker 1: Unprecedented.
22:25
Speaker 2: Wow.
22:25
Speaker 1: It was like the perfect experience for anybody... that had
22:29
never watched the UFC before, to see it that way
22:32
at the White House like that, I mean, it was nuts.
22:36
A huge experience for the fans that got to be
22:39
there in the Ellipse. I saw videos of these guys.
22:42
They were having so much fun. It's like everyone's in
22:46
there for free. You don't have to pay for the tickets.
22:47
There's 85,000 people out there. They're all screaming and cheering,
22:50
and the drinks are flowing, and it was wild. I mean,
22:54
just absolutely wild. What a 250th. Yeah, for Wow.
22:59
Speaker 3: And it's a sport that was like banned just, what, 15,
23:03
20 years ago or something?
23:05
Speaker 1: 20-plus years ago. So when the UFC– so when I
23:08
first started working for the UFC was in 1997. And
23:12
back then, you had to watch it on DirecTV. I
23:15
had DirecTV just because that was the only way to
23:17
watch the UFC. That's why I didn't have cable. And
23:20
then– Zufa purchased it. So the Fertitta brothers and Dana White,
23:25
they started running it in 2001. And that's when I
23:28
came aboard it again. So I had quit in 98.
23:31
I worked from 97 to 98. And then I quit.
23:34
And then they brought me back in 2001. And when
23:38
that was going on, it was banned from cable. And
23:42
they slowly started working it back. They got it on
23:45
Fox Sportsnet, which was the first time I ever commentated
23:48
for the UFC. That was UFC 37 and a half,
23:51
a very special show that they put on for Fox Sportsnet,
23:54
tried to introduce people to the sport. And so that
23:56
was the first time it was on like cable again.
23:59
And then they started getting pay-per-view buys and it started
24:02
growing and gathering steam. But even back then, like it
24:08
was like you were doing porn or something or snuff
24:11
films or you were doing something that was damaging for
24:13
your career. People would look at you like, you're working
24:17
for a cage fighting organization? Why would you do that?
24:21
Cut to 25 years later. It's on the lawn of
24:26
the White House, and it is one of the most
24:29
watched sporting events in the history of the world. I
24:32
don't know what the total overall views are as of now,
24:36
but I know that it was like well over– I
24:39
think it was 150 million just by Monday. Yeah.
24:44
Speaker 3: Unbelievable.
24:45
Speaker 1: Just by Monday. So that's like the night of and
24:47
then people that watched the replay that weren't there when
24:49
the fight took place because they heard about it. But
24:51
now between now and between then and now, now we're
24:55
dealing with Tuesday. Like it's probably another 50 or 60
24:58
million people have watched it.
25:00
Speaker 3: I bought Paramount Plus just to watch it on YouTube.
25:04
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
25:04
Speaker 3: I don't know, 13 bucks or something that it was.
25:08
Speaker 1: But man, what a hell of an event. Yeah, it
25:11
was an amazing event.
25:13
Speaker 3: I wish I would have stayed up longer, but I
25:15
watched the first few fights. It was fantastic.
25:17
Speaker 1: The main event was the greatest fight of all time.
25:19
It literally was the greatest fight of all time because
25:22
the guy that won it, Justin Gaethje, was in many
25:26
books a 6-1 underdog, which is crazy odds for a
25:31
guy that was an interim lightweight champion, fought the best
25:34
of the best, one of the best to ever do it,
25:37
BMF champion, just super durable, real dangerous guy. And that's
25:42
how good Ilya Teporia is. That's how good Ilya Teporia is.
25:45
Ilya Teporia, in many people's eyes, is the most skilled
25:50
of the new generation. And the new generation is the
25:52
most skilled of all time. And Ilya was like the
25:56
top of the mountain. And most people thought that he
25:59
was going to be too much. And he was too
26:01
much for a while. And he almost took Justin out
26:03
in the second round. And then Justin rallied. And then Ilya,
26:08
it looked like he got really bad. damaged in either
26:11
the first or the second round. He was having real
26:13
trouble seeing out of one of his eyes. And then
26:15
Justin started landing bombs in the third round. Ilya had
26:18
slowed down quite a bit. It looked like he had
26:21
really tried to finish Justin in the second. And sometimes
26:24
when you try to finish a guy, you just hit
26:26
the gas way too much and you can't recover in
26:29
between rounds. And Justin recovered. And Justin started battering Ilya
26:34
in the third and fourth. And by the end of
26:36
the fourth round, Ilya quit on his stool. He couldn't
26:40
see out of either eye. He had gotten kneed into
26:44
the body real bad when he was on the ground. Justin,
26:47
like literally, Justin had him down with his two hands
26:50
and just smashed a knee into his rib cage. And
26:53
he could see him go like that. And that was
26:54
the end of the round. And then he had to
26:57
retire on his stool. You think he broke a rib?
27:01
That probably could have happened. But I think maybe more
27:05
significantly it was the eye damage. Both of his eyes
27:08
were swollen shut. His nose was fucked up. He had
27:11
taken so many punches to the face, and it looked
27:13
like perhaps orbital damage, like maybe he had a fractured
27:16
orbital because his whole thing had just swollen up on
27:19
both sides. He was unrecognizable. And, you know, the guy
27:23
hung in there as long as he could. But when
27:25
you can't see, you can't see. And when you're that battered,
27:30
sometimes it's smart to stop. And he's a very smart guy,
27:33
and I think he realized, like, there is– I can't
27:35
defend myself right now. I can't see. I can't see.
27:38
This guy's smashing me. Let's call it a day. This
27:41
is what it is. Let's preserve my body and my
27:43
brain and rebuild and come back another day. But for Justin,
27:47
it was like one of the most epic things I've
27:49
ever seen in my life. For him to win like
27:51
that when everybody had counted him out, he was saying
27:53
it was going to be his last fight. It was
27:55
like a retirement fight. 37 years old, been in the
27:58
game forever, fought who's who of all-time greats in the sport,
28:03
and this was going to be his last fight. And
28:05
he's like, if I can win the title at the
28:08
White House. What an ending to a career. And that's
28:10
what everybody was saying. Like, yeah, but you're not gonna
28:13
because you're fighting Ilya Teporia. He was like, all right,
28:16
we'll see. Wow. And he pulled it off. He pulled
28:20
it off. It was insane. It was epic. Absolutely epic.
28:25
Speaker 3: What do you think the mindset is between somebody who
28:30
you walk in as an underdog and wind up winning,
28:32
even though your skills may not be more proficient than
28:34
the other guy? What do you think the mental difference
28:36
is between them? Like somebody who loses or wins.
28:39
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of factors. One of the factors
28:41
is that Justin has always been incredibly durable. I mean
28:44
it might just be a genetic thing. He even joked
28:46
around about it. Like science needs to take a look
28:48
at this hard-ass skin I have. He very rarely gets
28:51
cut at all. And he's like, I got these hard-ass
28:55
bones and hard-ass skin. He was joking around like science
28:58
needs to study this. And it's true, though. I mean,
29:01
he really is insanely durable. He's been rocked and hurt before,
29:05
and he's been stopped in fights before. He was knocked
29:07
out in the last second of the last round by
29:11
Max Holloway in the BMF title, which was an insane fight.
29:15
But the guy is just— he has zero quit in him.
29:19
It doesn't exist. Like, if you're looking for quit, you
29:21
go into a room, it's empty. The quit room has
29:24
no one in it. There's nothing in there. He's not
29:25
going to quit. He can lose because he's a human.
29:28
But he's not going to quit. And he's also been
29:30
into the deep trenches before. The deep trenches of these
29:35
five-round chaotic insane battles. And I... he thrives in those
29:41
kind of battles. He's described as the most violent man
29:46
in the most violent sport. We've all talked about him
29:51
like that for years, since the moment he burst onto
29:53
the scene when he fought Michael Johnson, in the UFC
29:56
at least. He's an extraordinary dude. Just a very extraordinary dude.
30:01
And not the most technically skilled. Ilya looked technically better
30:06
than him. But it didn't matter. Justin found a way
30:09
to land shots. Found a way to persevere from the
30:12
early rounds where he was in real trouble. And just
30:16
shocked the world. It was amazing. One of the coolest
30:19
things I've ever seen in my life.
30:21
Speaker 3: That's cool.
30:22
Speaker 1: It was fucking amazing. I wish I was there. Oh,
30:24
my God. I talked a bunch of people into going.
30:26
That didn't want to– like Shane Gillis was thinking about
30:28
not going. I'm like, bro, you got to go. It's
30:30
going to be epic. It's going to be a once-ever thing.
30:32
Not a once in a lifetime. Once in anybody's lifetime.
30:35
It's never happened before. It's probably never going to happen again.
30:38
Probably not. No. But that's something you have to see
30:42
and experience. Yeah. And so many people are trying to
30:44
make it a partisan thing. Like they're mad at people
30:46
for being there. Like, oh, you support Trump. It's a
30:49
fucking fight at the White House. It doesn't mean you
30:52
endorse foreign policy. Like shut the fuck up. It's too much.
30:57
Just please stop. And again, it's this thing, the ego thing,
31:01
where people are just– they just want so badly and
31:04
on both sides for sure. The right celebrates this as
31:08
a win for masculinity and patriotism and all these different things. Like, OK,
31:12
settle down. Everybody settle down. We should all be together.
31:16
I mean one of the things that I wanted to
31:19
do when we went to the White House to try
31:21
to push through psychedelics for therapy for veterans and people–
31:27
first responders, people struggling with PTSD, is you need to
31:32
take these steps to give people a path to change
31:37
their mind. I think that's the title of Michael Pollan's book,
31:41
and it's a great way to describe it. Change your mind.
31:44
Change your whole perspective. And there's no better way to
31:48
change your whole perspective than a complete dissolving of your
31:51
ego momentarily. At least for a while, just lock it
31:55
all away. Push it out and then you get a
31:58
chance to see what it actually is doing and the
32:01
effect that it has when you let it back into
32:03
your life. Yeah.
32:04
Speaker 3: How much of these clothes do you want to put
32:06
back on?
32:06
Speaker 1: Right. Right. I described it as like control alt delete
32:10
for your brain. And then when your brain reboots, it
32:13
has one folder and that folder is just labeled my
32:16
old bullshit. Yeah. And you have a decision to make.
32:20
You go back into my old bullshit and most people
32:22
do at least a little. I do a little. Yeah.
32:25
But for sure you recognize that it's your old bullshit
32:29
instead of thinking you are who you thought you are. Yeah.
32:33
Speaker 3: And it's a lot of stuff that wasn't– didn't really
32:35
belong to you. It's like we act like decorator crabs
32:39
all throughout our lives. We're just kind of grabbing these
32:41
little things.
32:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:43
Speaker 3: And you realize that. And I think that– we were
32:47
just talking about this politics thing. I think separation is
32:50
the number one greatest deception of all time. The biggest
32:55
problem with– the biggest problem that we have and the
32:57
biggest deception that we have. It's like we are separate.
33:01
And the one thing that you see– and you do
33:03
it– and I mean this therapeutically. I don't mean like
33:05
you're taking mushrooms and going to a concert. When you
33:11
do this like therapeutic psychedelics, the first big realization you
33:16
have is like, oh, shit. This is all me. Like
33:20
we're all kind of connected. We might be one thing,
33:22
but there's something here that's connecting all of us.
33:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Whatever that is. Whether you want to call it
33:28
consciousness or our souls are connected or something. Yeah. There's
33:32
something where we're connected that we're kind of denying for
33:35
some strange reason.
33:37
Speaker 3: And I think that that's one of the reasons I
33:41
think you maybe would agree that we're in a loneliness pandemic.
33:46
Speaker 1: Right now.
33:47
Speaker 3: We have more rampant loneliness around the world than we've
33:50
ever had before. And if you look at how this
33:54
has evolved... Shit, I didn't know it was coffee. Thanks, man.
33:59
Speaker 1: Gotcha.
34:01
Speaker 3: So if you look.
34:02
Speaker 1: Cheers, sir. Thank you, man.
34:06
Speaker 3: If you look at this loneliness and.
34:10
You could stand in a room full of people and
34:12
still feel lonely for so many people. The majority of
34:15
the world right now is in this loneliness pandemic. So
34:20
what's really going on, and this is my opinion, feel
34:23
free to toss it, but we're in a place that's
34:27
becoming more and more performative on a daily basis. Just fake, artificial,
34:32
let me say what people want to hear, let me
34:34
act how people want to, how I want to be perceived.
34:37
Speaker 1: Sure.
34:38
Speaker 3: And Which means that if I'm even– if I'm a
34:44
little bit performative, no matter who it is, my best friends,
34:47
they put their hand on my back and say, Chase,
34:50
you're a great guy.
34:51
Speaker 1: You're a good person.
34:52
Speaker 3: But in the back of my mind, I know that
34:54
I'm performing. I know for a fact that probably not
34:57
even my spouse has ever seen me. They can't like me.
35:01
They can't love me because that's not me.
35:04
Speaker 1: Right.
35:06
Speaker 3: And I think this hyper-performance world of– I don't mean performance.
35:10
I mean like let me act out this thing. I'm
35:13
going to act.
35:14
Speaker 1: A certain way.
35:15
Speaker 3: Because let's look at– if you look at our ancestors,
35:18
I had to worry about– like you and I, we're
35:21
maybe eight, nine years apart. But when we were in
35:23
elementary school or middle school, we did some stupid shit.
35:26
We had to worry about 20 people making fun of us.
35:30
And now we got to worry about 20 million. And
35:32
that is an existential– difference between those things. So we
35:38
get better at hiding shame and pretending like we don't
35:42
have it. And then if now going back to separation,
35:46
now this is what I call the disease of specialness,
35:50
of I am special, which means I'm the only one
35:53
here pretending and everybody else has got their shit figured out.
35:56
And then that isolates you even further and not realizing
36:00
that everyone has this. Everyone has this little crap going
36:05
on and like the fear that people feel of like
36:09
if I just be real then I'm going to get
36:11
made fun of I'm going to get rejected I'm going
36:13
to be kicked out of the tribe it's not real
36:16
it's not.
36:16
Speaker 1: Real but it can be real depending upon your circumstances
36:19
so if you are in a very enclosed ideological tribe
36:25
and there's no there's no tolerance for any deviation from
36:31
whatever the narrative is yeah This is a real problem
36:34
with social media. This is a real problem that– it
36:38
wasn't like that. I mean I know I'm like one
36:41
of those old people that's like back in my day.
36:43
But when I was young, you were allowed to have
36:47
different opinions. It was normal. I had friends that were
36:52
conservative and I would make fun of them and they
36:54
would make fun of me and it was normal. Like
36:57
you kept those friends because no one was telling you
37:00
to get rid of those friends. There was no pressure
37:03
to be a part of a group. There was no
37:05
silence is violence bullshit. There was a bunch of people
37:08
that thought differently and you talked about stuff. And we
37:12
weren't as informed. That's a fact. We didn't know as
37:15
much about how the world works. That's a fact. But
37:18
now that we do, one of the things that we
37:20
should all be acutely aware of with us spending so
37:24
much time interacting with each other online is that a
37:27
lot of the people that you're interacting with are not real.
37:31
And not a small number. If you are on X,
37:34
it– look, there was an FBI analyst that he– before
37:39
Elon– What do you mean not real? They're bots.
37:42
Speaker 3: Like an actual not human?
37:44
Speaker 1: AI bots. OK. AI bots is a big percentage and
37:48
then there's actual humans who work for organizations that push narratives.
37:53
You can hire an organization to push a certain narrative.
37:57
You can hire them to support you. Or you can
38:01
hire them to attack your enemies. You can hire companies
38:05
that will artificially create a movement of people that agree
38:10
that this person is a bad person, that this project
38:12
is a bad project, that this is a good idea,
38:14
that he's a good person, that he's a good– this
38:17
is a good politician, whatever it is. So it's– you're
38:21
not dealing with genuine thought. You're dealing with bullshit and
38:25
here's where it gets really weird. I think it's natural
38:29
and I think– Everything is nature. And I think this
38:33
idea that this artificial communication that we've developed through social
38:37
media is what's really fucking everybody up, I don't think
38:40
that's the case. I think this is a natural progression
38:43
of nature. The idea that our stupid fucking creativity and
38:46
intuition and technological ingenuity can bypass nature I think is horseshit.
38:52
It is nature. It is nature. Yeah. And I think
38:54
nature is creating this convergence of It's creating this very
39:01
bizarre convergence of humans and artificial intelligence through a bunch
39:08
of ways that are unproductive and a bunch of ways
39:11
that are productive. But all of it like gathering together
39:14
in a device that's like almost impossible to resist. If
39:18
there was anything else that you use six hours a
39:20
day or eight hours– if you're a good person, if
39:23
you're good with it. Like a lot of kids are
39:25
on seven, eight, nine hours a day. Like if there's
39:27
anything else like that, you would think that person's got
39:30
a horrible addiction. But for us, we've accepted it as
39:33
a normal part of society. And that– whatever that interaction
39:38
with it that we have, that deep connection we have
39:42
is only going to get deeper. And it's ultimately going
39:45
to lead to some sort of hive mind. And it
39:49
will probably not be a hive human mind only. I
39:54
think it will be a human AI hive mind. And
39:59
I think one of the things that's happening to us
40:03
is there's this weird like movement to– this is a
40:09
weird movement to discredit traditional femininity and traditional masculinity. And
40:16
there's this– bizarre over celebration of outliers, of weird gender people,
40:23
of people that are confused with their gender. And I
40:26
think that's because if you play that out, this is
40:28
a new thing. Again, I'm an old man. But when
40:31
I was a young guy, there was cross-dressers. There was
40:35
guys that got off on wearing women's clothes. There was
40:38
always stuff like that. There's always been people with gender dysphoria.
40:41
But there was never like this. And this is also
40:44
coming at a time where microplastics are disrupting our endocrine systems.
40:49
Big time. Big time. So testosterone levels are dropping. We're like, oh,
40:53
my God, it's a crisis. What do we do about it?
40:56
It's natural. Our use of plastic is probably natural. It's
41:01
probably all somehow or another connected to take us out
41:04
of our territorial primate bodies and move us into some
41:09
new stage of existence.
41:11
Speaker 3: Like some post-biological.
41:13
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I think it's inevitable and I'm not
41:17
fighting it.
41:18
Speaker 3: Does Elon agree with that? Like we're moving toward that direction?
41:21
Speaker 1: Well, he most certainly thinks that we are moving into
41:25
a direction where we converge. And I mean he said
41:28
about this is– I mean the dude is literally cutting
41:31
holes in people's heads and shoving fucking circuits in there
41:34
and doing a lot of wild shit with it. I
41:36
mean people are using their eyes like aim bots and
41:40
a paralyzed gentleman that we had on the podcast was
41:43
the first Neuralink patient. I watched that.
41:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:46
Speaker 1: He said it's like a cheat code because he– where
41:49
he looks, that's where the cursor goes and he just
41:50
shoots people. You know, like he's shooting people with his mind.
41:53
Like Fortnite? Yeah. On a video game or something? He's
41:55
playing video games with his mind and he's excellent at it. Well,
41:59
you've got to think– well, eventually you'll be able to
42:01
move your body that way and then eventually you'll have
42:04
all sorts of other tools that didn't exist before. And
42:07
one of the things that Elon has famously said is
42:09
you're going to be able to talk without words. That's
42:13
the hive mind. We're moving towards that. And this gets
42:17
us into all this weird UAP shit. Like what are
42:20
these aliens? What are these experiences that people are having?
42:23
Is this all a mass hallucination? Is it us from
42:27
the future? Is it us from the past? Is it
42:30
another species that's far more advanced than us that's come
42:32
down here to monitor us and shepherd us through our
42:35
very difficult time? Whatever it is, they seem to be
42:40
what we're going to be if we keep going in
42:41
this direction. Our brains are far larger than monkeys. Our
42:45
bodies are far weaker, pound for pound, than any of
42:48
the other primates. So what do they look like? They
42:50
look like these fucking spindly things with no muscles and
42:52
giant heads. And they communicate telepathically, universally. Like everyone from
42:58
all over the world, every planet or every country, rather,
43:01
that's experienced these creatures, they all say the same thing.
43:04
They all say they communicate with them telepathically, which that's
43:08
where we're going.
43:08
Speaker 3: Which is exactly what you experience on DMT.
43:11
Speaker 1: Right.
43:12
Speaker 3: And like you can get a test drive of what
43:16
that's like.
43:16
Speaker 1: Do you know that the original– when the original scientists
43:20
or I guess anthropologists or what kind of people were
43:23
studying ayahuasca when they first went down to the Amazon?
43:28
They wanted to call harming telepathy. They didn't know that
43:32
it had already– because the rules of scientific nomenclature, it
43:36
had already been named. So they– They didn't know. So
43:39
this substance that these people had created, one of the
43:43
aspects of it, they wanted to talk to it as
43:47
telepathy and that they want to refer to it that way.
43:49
So that was what they were going to call it scientifically.
43:51
Speaker 2: Wow.
43:52
Speaker 1: Because they had experienced these telepathic moments while on it.
43:56
But because it had already been named, they weren't allowed
43:59
to rename it. So they just stuck with Harmeen. But
44:01
Harmeen had a real chance of being called telepathy. That's beautiful. Wild.
44:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
44:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
44:08
Speaker 3: And it just seems like consciousness is coming to the
44:11
forefront of every debate right now.
44:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
44:15
Speaker 3: The telepathy tapes shot out of a cannon. Like nobody's
44:20
ever heard of that stuff. And I think you had
44:22
the director or something on the show. And it just
44:26
seems like the level of certainty that some people have
44:30
about consciousness is adorable.
44:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
44:33
Speaker 3: Adorable to me. It's like we're these little hairless monkeys.
44:38
And we're like– every generation is like, oh, yeah, we
44:40
didn't know 100 years ago, but now we know. We
44:44
know now.
44:44
Speaker 1: Right.
44:46
Speaker 3: It's just ridiculous. Yeah.
44:48
Speaker 1: But that's the ego, right?
44:50
Speaker 3: That's the certainty.
44:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. We need that certainty.
44:54
Speaker 3: I think we're at a place where curiosity– maybe except
44:58
for politics– curiosity isn't really dangerous anymore. It's like people
45:04
got– are scared to be publicly curious or to be
45:08
public question something like, why is this here? Why is
45:11
that there? Do you know who Ignaz Simmelweiss was?
45:15
Speaker 1: No.
45:15
Speaker 3: He was a doctor back in the day. No idea
45:18
what year it was, but it was very, very early days.
45:21
He was the guy who said, Hey, maybe in between
45:24
these operating room patients, what if we wash this blood
45:27
off of our hands before I go do this next operation? And,
45:33
He got laughed out of the room and then eventually
45:35
thrown into an insane asylum where he died for questioning
45:40
this thing. And it seems like so much of what's
45:43
going on with psychedelics research, even though document after document
45:50
is showing it's the most effective thing for PTSD and
45:53
anxiety and depression and addiction and all this other stuff.
45:56
And I'm not a champion researcher in any of this stuff,
46:00
but it seems like kind of coming out, people are
46:03
getting the same treatment as this guy did when they're
46:06
coming out, even though like it's been documented so well.
46:10
And it's still a schedule one drug.
46:13
Speaker 1: Well, I think now that's changing. And I think there's an,
46:18
I think one of the things that's changing it is
46:20
the acceptance of it by the right. And one of the,
46:24
some of them, at least the old boomers, they don't
46:26
want to let go. But the young guys, like especially
46:29
Special Forces guys, SEALs, Rangers, those kind of guys, they
46:32
come back. So many of their buddies have had experiences
46:38
and then recognize when one of their friends is struggling
46:42
and take them to have these experiences. And that word
46:44
is getting out. Sean Ryan is responsible for a lot
46:46
of that because he's talked really openly about it. And
46:49
obviously he has a huge platform. But Marcus Luttrell. Him
46:54
talking about it and then Rick Perry, the former governor
46:56
of Texas, Republican governor of Texas who hated marijuana, hated psychedelics,
47:01
thought it was all just a bunch of hippie bullshit. Well,
47:03
he had brain atrophy, natural age-related brain atrophy. And the
47:08
doctor said, oh, it's just pretty normal, standard. You're fine.
47:12
Goes and does this Ibogaine session. Comes back.
47:15
Speaker 3: Rick did it himself.
47:16
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
47:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
47:17
Speaker 1: A couple. He's done a few. Goes and does this
47:20
Ibogaine session. comes back, the doctor says, you felt like
47:24
it was 25% improvement in your brain atrophy. So then
47:29
six months later, he goes back again for another scan.
47:32
His brain atrophy is gone. It's gone. He says he
47:36
feels different. He thinks different. He feels better. Like his
47:39
mind works better. So it's not just an experience, Ibogaine
47:43
in particular. It seems to be neuroregenerative in a profound way.
47:48
That if this was a drug that you could patent,
47:51
the pharmaceutical drug companies would be all over this shit. Yeah.
47:55
Speaker 3: And it'd be the, it's proving to be one of
47:58
the most effective drugs ever tested. If you're, if you're
48:01
looking at like efficacy versus like a sample size, it's
48:04
one of the most effective ever tested. Andy Stumpf and
48:08
I just did a show about it. We're talking about
48:11
this stuff and he's brought a lot of awareness to this.
48:15
And if, I think if we could get a little
48:19
bit of awareness to it, I think we could, cure
48:21
a lot of this stuff but I think the number
48:22
one thing is like is there a way that we
48:24
can help to get this faster to people and.
48:29
Speaker 1: They're working on it Brian Hubbard and Rick Perry that
48:32
mean Rick Perry's said openly that this is my life's
48:35
mission now you know really yeah I mean former governor
48:38
Republican governor of Texas yeah his life's mission is to
48:42
promote psychedelics I'm so glad Oh, I'm so glad. And
48:46
this is another– Ibogaine is the best one to start
48:48
out with because Ibogaine has zero recreational use. It's zero.
48:55
It's not fun. Nobody likes it. It's not a good time.
48:58
You throw up. You shit yourself. You freak out for
49:01
24 hours. But when you come back, you're a different person.
49:04
And if you're willing to do that, if you're willing
49:05
to do that, you can change. You could do a
49:09
lot of fixings. And maybe even more importantly, be aware
49:15
of what these little traps, these little deeply carved graves.
49:20
that your consciousness seems to comfortably slip into over and
49:24
over again, whether it's alcoholism or gambling or whatever it is.
49:27
It seems to just shut those down in a very
49:31
profound way that you can't get anywhere else.
49:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's just– I think it zooms you out
49:37
to where you're like, oh, shit, I thought all that
49:39
was important. Like you're talking about zooming out on these
49:43
galaxies and within galaxies and black.
49:45
Speaker 1: Holes and stuff.
49:46
Speaker 3: It gives you that perspective like, whoa, I thought I
49:49
was really special.
49:50
Speaker 1: Right. I thought I was super important. Yeah. Yeah.
49:53
Speaker 3: Yeah.
49:53
Speaker 1: I mean, that is one of the things that most
49:56
psychedelics do is they remove that idea completely. They go,
50:01
you've got to get rid of this. This is tripping
50:03
you up. You're carrying this fucking weight around everywhere and
50:05
it's really stopping your progress.
50:07
Speaker 5: Yeah.
50:07
Speaker 3: And it's kind of like you're in a video game
50:11
and then somebody comes back and be.
50:14
Speaker 1: Like, hey, man.
50:15
Speaker 3: Here's the way that– here's the shit you need to
50:17
actually worry about. You don't need to do all this
50:19
other stuff.
50:19
Speaker 1: Right, right, right. Yeah, like a little helper guy in
50:22
the video game.
50:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.
50:23
Speaker 1: Guys, got to come with me. This is the wrong room.
50:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
50:27
Speaker 1: They're coming. We got to get out of this room.
50:29
Speaker 3: Don't do that quest.
50:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what it is.
50:33
Speaker 3: And I mean I'm a hypnosis guy. I studied all
50:39
the brainwashing, interrogation kind of stuff. This is the fastest
50:44
way I think– and I've studied every possible way to
50:47
change human behavior that probably has ever been researched. And
50:51
this is bar none the fastest. And I think one
50:55
of the reasons that it helps people so much– and
50:57
I don't want to– this is going to turn into
50:59
a two-hour psychedelics discussion, but it's your show.
51:02
Speaker 1: I don't care. OK.
51:05
Speaker 3: I think it's because perspective matters. shifting is what happens.
51:08
Like if you're looking at life and you're, you have
51:10
this little GoPro is your consciousness and you're looking at
51:13
this level, it just snatches that thing up and zooms
51:17
it out and puts it in another location where you're like,
51:20
Oh my God, I had no idea it was like this.
51:24
Speaker 1: Right.
51:25
Speaker 3: And it seems to be that the perspective, just the
51:29
shift in perspective seems to be the number one thing
51:31
that psychedelics produce therapeutically. And, That's the thing that like
51:36
cognitive behavioral therapy is trying to get done over the
51:40
course of like 10 or 12 years or however long
51:43
it takes. But it just seems like it does it
51:46
so fast in a profound way. And the stuff is non-addictive, non-toxic.
51:54
It's not a street drug. You're not going to see
51:56
people out there on the street selling like DMT capsules.
52:00
And DMT, I would say, similar to Ibogaine, it's not recreational.
52:04
Speaker 1: I think it is.
52:06
Speaker 3: You think DMT is recreational?
52:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a lot of people that recreationally
52:09
do it. I think that would be your thought. Oh,
52:14
just do this and have fun. And then once you
52:17
do it, it's no longer recreational. It's too profound to
52:21
be just purely recreational. Yeah.
52:24
Speaker 3: You've heard of people getting banned? Yes, I have. Jamie
52:27
and I were just talking about this.
52:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. I knew a guy who was a tattoo artist
52:31
who got banned.
52:33
Speaker 3: And You can keep taking DMT. Like you can go
52:36
take 10 hits on a DMT vape pen or something
52:40
and you're not going anywhere.
52:41
Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts?
52:42
Speaker 3: It's insane.
52:43
Speaker 1: It's like they just decide. Yeah. No, no, no. You're
52:46
doing this for the wrong reasons. Yeah.
52:50
Speaker 3: I listened to one guy describe it and he's like,
52:52
it's basically like you're knocking on the door of a
52:54
nightclub and like the little thing opens up.
52:57
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you're not coming in. You got to
53:00
think like, what are they doing wrong?
53:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think maybe going in with ego seems to
53:05
be one of the things I see that's in common
53:06
and people just treating it like a little recreational thing.
53:10
Speaker 1: The ego thing is a problem even within psychedelics because
53:13
there's sort of a carve-out that happens, which I always
53:17
refer to as spiritual narcissism. There's a bunch of people
53:20
that do it that somehow or another want to be
53:24
a guru or a leader and to show you that
53:27
they're somehow or another better because they have had these experiences.
53:31
They know more. And they pretend they know more. They
53:34
pretend they know more and then they get a whole
53:35
bunch of people that are very suggestible. And those people
53:39
sort of listen to them. And then that's how you
53:41
start a cult. And there's something to that. There's a
53:45
specific type of narcissism that occurs from regular psychedelic use
53:50
when people want to like lead groups of people. Yeah.
53:53
Speaker 3: And I think if you go into a journey or
53:56
two with no ego, do you know what you learn?
53:58
Speaker 1: Less. Less.
54:00
Speaker 3: Like you're less certain every time about the world.
54:04
Speaker 1: From the moment you get in there, you're like, oh,
54:06
how is this real? How is this available 15 seconds
54:11
away from normal reality? Yes. Yeah.
54:15
Speaker 3: And I definitely think that we're moving forward. If we
54:21
move forward with psychedelics, our species is going to move forward.
54:24
Speaker 4: Yeah.
54:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. And I think– I
54:28
think all the time what would have happened if that
54:31
sweeping psychedelics acts, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 hadn't
54:36
been enacted. If this stuff had been available to people
54:40
for the last 56 years, what would that be like? Yeah.
54:44
Speaker 3: What would the 94 Ford Taurus actually look like?
54:48
Speaker 5: Dope.
54:49
Speaker 1: It would look like a 69 Mustang.
54:53
Speaker 5: Yeah.
54:54
Speaker 1: Because those are the people that were doing drugs. Exactly.
54:57
I mean, there's no other explanation in my mind why
55:01
cars started looking like shit. And music. Yeah.
55:04
Speaker 3: Well, we still had some good music.
55:06
Speaker 1: We had some good music. Like Depeche Mode. Because there's
55:08
a bunch of people that still did drugs. But there
55:11
was a giant change between 1950 and 1960 with automobiles,
55:15
with music, with everything. And I think a large part
55:19
of that, if you're really being honest, a large part
55:21
of that is psychedelics. Absolutely. Yeah.
55:24
Speaker 3: I mean, if you've ever gone into a huge mosque
55:28
and looked up at the ceiling.
55:28
Speaker 1: Oh, it's incredible.
55:30
Speaker 3: It looks like exactly like what you see on all
55:33
this stuff. I'll go no further on that topic. But
55:38
just all the ancient artwork, it's so psychedelic and beautiful.
55:43
It's like they got written out of history somehow. And
55:46
I think there's a difference between drugs and medicines. Mm-hmm.
55:51
Can we take a pee break?
55:52
Speaker 1: Sure, sure. Go ahead and take a pee break. I'm good,
55:54
but I'll hold.
55:55
Speaker 3: I think it's the coffee.
55:57
Speaker 5: Yeah.
55:59
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5th product availability varies by region exclusions may apply. Pull
56:54
it up, Jamie. Yeah, I don't know. So we're looking at,
56:57
Jamie pulled up a bunch of photos of inside of mosques.
56:59
And that in particular, that is absolutely a DMT experience.
57:05
So here's the question.
57:07
Speaker 3: Like, I feel like I've been to that location.
57:09
Speaker 1: Right.
57:09
Speaker 3: How about this one?
57:10
Speaker 1: I mean, that looks super DMT.
57:13
Speaker 3: I've spent time there.
57:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
57:14
Speaker 1: Not in that mosque, but in that. What is that one, Jamie,
57:18
to the upper left? You scroll up left. Yeah, look
57:23
at that. What the fuck is that?
57:25
Speaker 3: Is that 3D?
57:27
Speaker 1: Oh, you know what that is, dude? I think that's
57:29
Alex Gray's place. Is it?
57:32
Speaker 5: It says it's in Iran.
57:34
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
57:35
Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
57:35
Speaker 1: Well, you know what Alex Gray's doing? Do you know
57:37
Alex Gray, the visionary artist? Yeah. So his Chapel of
57:41
Sacred Mirrors, he has a real church that they built
57:45
based on his artwork. Wow. It's incredible.
57:48
Speaker 3: Non-denominational.
57:49
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just like– Like a Rothko– like the Rothko Chapel.
57:53
He's one of those guys– you know what I was
57:55
talking about with spiritual narcissism running a group? He's the
57:58
opposite of that. He's pure. And his place, like this
58:03
is his artwork but this is his place. And if
58:05
you look at the outside of it, that's the outside
58:07
of the place.
58:08
Speaker 3: That is so cool.
58:09
Speaker 1: So the outside of the place is basically like 3D
58:12
printed artwork of his that they've constructed into a building.
58:17
I don't even know how he did it. It must
58:18
have cost a fuckload of money. A bunch of people donated.
58:21
But the inside of his– I think that is– so
58:24
he used to have a place in New York City
58:26
that was like a gallery. That was the Chapel of
58:28
Sacred Mirrors. So where is that?
58:32
Speaker 3: His daughter does a lot of painting now.
58:34
Speaker 1: That is it. That's on the Hudson. Yeah, in the
58:36
Hudson Valley. I mean he's an incredible, incredible artist and
58:43
his ability to capture– That experience. Like that one, if
58:46
you go back. Oh, actually, scroll down to the lower left.
58:49
Right there. The Egyptian-looking one. Lower left. Right there. Bam.
58:53
I've seen that, dude. Oh, yeah. I've 100% seen that.
58:56
I've seen that, too. But go back to the other
58:58
one that we were just looking at. No, that's not
59:01
the same. That's the one I've seen. I've literally seen that.
59:05
I've seen that those, and they move and change and morph. Yeah.
59:09
He's just. able to nail it.
59:11
Speaker 3: I don't know how he does that.
59:14
Speaker 1: He's incredible. One, he's a good artist.
59:17
Speaker 3: But two, being able to bring that back with coherence
59:20
to where you can kind of show someone what it's like.
59:24
I remember seeing that face and I was like in–
59:27
In the DMT space, I was like, is that me?
59:30
And right when I said that, the mouth moved exactly
59:32
like my mouth.
59:33
Speaker 1: And I was like, that is me. Well, you're it
59:36
and it's you and you're everyone.
59:38
Speaker 3: Yeah.
59:38
Speaker 1: You're everyone and it's everyone. Yeah. The weird thing with
59:43
the mosques, if you go back to some of those images, please,
59:46
of the mosques, the first one that you pulled up,
59:48
the ceiling, what were they doing? Not that one. The
59:53
original one that you pulled up. That one, yeah. Yeah. Like,
59:56
that's very, very DMT. So, like, what were they doing
1:00:00
that they saw this? And was that a part of
1:00:03
their religion at one point in time? And has that
1:00:07
been forgotten? Like, what is it? Like, why did that exist?
1:00:12
Go back to the first one, please. It had to
1:00:14
have been. That one.
1:00:15
Speaker 5: This color seems a little sus.
1:00:18
Speaker 1: Oh, really? You think it's AI? Yeah.
1:00:20
Speaker 5: I've just seen so much AI stuff in the last year.
1:00:22
Speaker 1: Right. It doesn't look like the rest of them. Well,
1:00:26
go to that website.
1:00:27
Speaker 5: I mean, the photo just looks a little.
1:00:29
Speaker 1: I see. Go to that website where it says 50
1:00:32
mesmerizing mosques.
1:00:35
Speaker 5: If it says where it is, then I'd totally... There
1:00:36
it is. It says where it is.
1:00:37
Speaker 1: That's in Iran. We probably blew that up already. God,
1:00:43
I hope not. I hope not, too. I mean, didn't
1:00:46
Israel blow up a bunch of ancient Christian places in Lebanon?
1:00:53
I believe they did. I don't know. It's the same place.
1:00:55
This is the same place. So that's a– whatever that
1:00:57
place is. Is that the same place? Yeah. That is
1:01:00
a very psychedelic place. OK. Look at that one. That's nuts. What?
1:01:04
So what were they doing? Is that 3D?
1:01:07
Speaker 5: Well, it's like a 3D photo. So it's manipulated in
1:01:10
a weird way.
1:01:11
Speaker 1: OK. I understand.
1:01:11
Speaker 3: So that's like a fish eye.
1:01:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But either way, just the designs
1:01:16
themselves are the actual design. So like what were they
1:01:19
doing that they wanted that to be represented? And is
1:01:22
that missing? Because– There's a great book called The Sacred
1:01:27
Mushroom and the Cross. Have you ever read that? The
1:01:29
John Marco Allegro book? Yeah. So John Marco Allegro who
1:01:32
was an ordained minister but he was agnostic and he
1:01:34
was a guy that studied theology and his conclusion after–
1:01:38
I mean even being an ordained minister, his conclusion was
1:01:41
that like it's probably not– any one religion doesn't have
1:01:45
it right. Yeah. And so he was one of the
1:01:48
people that was brought on to decipher the Dead Sea Scrolls.
1:01:51
He deciphers it for 14 years. He works on it.
1:01:54
And he writes this book called The Sacred Mushroom and
1:01:56
the Cross where he believes that the entire story of
1:02:00
Christianity is connected to the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and
1:02:04
fertility cults.
1:02:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:02:07
Speaker 3: Have you seen like– Jamie, am I allowed to ask
1:02:10
Jamie to pull something? Sure.
1:02:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:02:12
Speaker 3: Like one of the original paintings of Jesus was him
1:02:15
with a bunch of mushrooms.
1:02:16
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. Well, the Adam and Eve, the fresco in France.
1:02:20
So that Adam and Eve fresco that's painted on this–
1:02:24
I want to say it's at least 1,000 years old.
1:02:27
It's painted on this wall in France is Adam and
1:02:31
Eve and the tree of life. And the tree of
1:02:32
life is mushrooms. Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:37
Speaker 3: It's the tree of knowledge.
1:02:38
Speaker 1: Yes.
1:02:39
Speaker 3: The fruit of knowledge.
1:02:40
Speaker 1: Right.
1:02:41
Speaker 4: Right.
1:02:41
Speaker 1: It's not the tree of life. It's the fruit of knowledge.
1:02:43
But this– the story of it, like that– Like, what
1:02:48
is the actual reference to why in the Bible, I
1:02:51
don't want to paraphrase it, as to why God told
1:02:56
them not to eat from the fruit of that tree?
1:03:00
Put that into perplexity. What did God say to Adam?
1:03:04
By the way, everybody blaming Eve. Adam was the only
1:03:07
one who talked to God. We don't even know if
1:03:11
Adam told Eve. He might have forgot to tell her
1:03:14
and then blamed the whole human race suffering forever.
1:03:19
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
1:03:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. I read that over and over again. I'm like,
1:03:22
where does it say that Adam told Eve? It doesn't. Anywhere.
1:03:26
God told Adam to eat from any tree in the
1:03:28
garden except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil,
1:03:31
and that if he ate from it, he would surely die.
1:03:34
You are free to eat from any tree in the garden,
1:03:36
but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge
1:03:38
of good and evil, for when you eat from it,
1:03:41
you will certainly die. Okay. And what does that mean? Right.
1:03:47
You will die of what? Ego death? Because if that's
1:03:49
what it is– Yeah. And there's a weird thing is
1:03:53
that the whole connection between the Amanita muscaria and the
1:03:58
psychedelic book or rather the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross
1:04:02
book is that the Amanita muscaria is a red mushroom
1:04:07
that looks like an apple. And in fact, the term–
1:04:11
like there's like confusion as to whether or not the
1:04:14
term apple is actually– meaning a red thing, and that
1:04:20
it might not actually be an apple, but it might
1:04:23
actually be the original version of it might have been
1:04:25
the amanita. And then you have to think, how many
1:04:28
thousands of years has this been around? How many different
1:04:33
people have translated it? How many different people have passed
1:04:35
on the story? What was the source? What was the
1:04:37
original story?
1:04:39
Speaker 3: And why delete it? How does this get deleted so quickly?
1:04:44
Like pervasively.
1:04:45
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:04:46
Speaker 3: Around the whole world. Have you heard the Christmas traditions
1:04:49
as well?
1:04:49
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Santa Claus is a mushroom. Wow.
1:04:53
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh.
1:04:54
Speaker 1: And it's the same mushroom, the Amanita muscaria. The weird
1:04:57
thing about the Amanita muscaria is it doesn't– like not
1:05:01
a lot of people have had psychedelic experiences on it.
1:05:03
It's a very weird mushroom.
1:05:05
Speaker 3: Do you think it evolved maybe over time?
1:05:07
Speaker 1: It very well could have. McKenna had some thoughts on it.
1:05:10
He said that it could be seasonal. It could be location.
1:05:14
It could be like where it is. It could be
1:05:16
genetic variations. It could be a bunch of different factors.
1:05:21
Speaker 3: And if you consume it by way of reindeer piss.
1:05:24
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. Well, not only that, people drink their piss
1:05:27
when they consume it and it gives them like the
1:05:29
second dose, the second burst. So apparently the psychedelic compounds
1:05:34
come through the urine and if you drink it, you
1:05:35
just get a full straight blast. Yeah. And reindeer have
1:05:38
been known to like knock shamans out of the way
1:05:41
to drink their piss. Because the reindeer are addicted to
1:05:45
this mushroom, which is why they fly in the Santa
1:05:49
Claus story. Yeah.
1:05:52
Speaker 3: And I heard the story these shamans would go around
1:05:56
pulled by dog sleds or something. And the snow was
1:06:00
so high that they would drop the stuff down the
1:06:02
chimney to these people. And it was fresh mushrooms or
1:06:06
fresh amanita or something. And in order to dry it out,
1:06:09
you'd have to hang it by the fire.
1:06:12
Speaker 1: Right, and you hang it over the trees too. People
1:06:14
would put it on trees, and that's where they're decorating
1:06:17
the Christmas tree is. Also, those mushrooms, the Amanita muscaria
1:06:20
has a mycorrhizal relationship with coniferous trees. I didn't know this. Yeah,
1:06:25
so that's where they grow. They grow underneath the trees
1:06:29
just like the brightly packaged presents that are underneath the
1:06:33
trees on Christmas. This story is– It's a crazy story.
1:06:38
It's like what did we forget about? How much did
1:06:41
we forget?
1:06:42
Speaker 3: What's been revised.
1:06:43
Speaker 1: Right. Well, just think about what we're just talking about
1:06:45
inside of our generation. So the 1970 Controlled Substances Act. Now,
1:06:49
that is a– that's a government that's restricting its citizens
1:06:56
and trying to control its citizens. And one of the
1:06:59
ways it does it is limit their psychedelic experiences. That's
1:07:02
not the only time that's happened, right? That's the Illusinian Mysteries.
1:07:05
That's from Brian Murarescu's book. The immortality key. This is
1:07:10
what they did back then. They banned these rituals. Why?
1:07:13
Because it's very difficult to control people when you realize
1:07:17
that we're all one. It's almost impossible. It doesn't work.
1:07:20
They don't want to listen. You don't want to do it.
1:07:23
You start getting your lawmakers and your military people start
1:07:26
doing it. Well, then war becomes impossible.
1:07:29
Speaker 3: Absolutely impossible at that point. Because that's me. I'm hurting
1:07:33
myself doing.
1:07:34
Speaker 1: All of that. Exactly. Yeah. Man, it's insane. It is insane.
1:07:40
Speaker 3: I wish there was like on a Google Doc how
1:07:42
you can look at revision history. I wish there was
1:07:44
something like that for our race, our species.
1:07:47
Speaker 1: Right. Right.
1:07:49
Speaker 3: Just so much has been changed and modified. And we
1:07:53
have historians, but they're studying something that's been permitted and
1:07:59
something that's been officially released. And this is more certainty.
1:08:04
It's just more certainty. Like, oh, that reindeer story, that's
1:08:07
bullshit because I got this book.
1:08:08
Speaker 1: From– Yeah, they don't know it's bullshit.
1:08:10
Speaker 3: Lichtenstein or whatever from this historian.
1:08:13
Speaker 1: Just plead to authority that you have the answers. Bitch,
1:08:16
you don't have the answers. Yeah. You definitely don't. You
1:08:18
can't– it's not possible. You can't have those answers. Yeah.
1:08:24
Speaker 3: And we're in an age where this is proving to
1:08:28
help with so many other things. And it's not just depression,
1:08:32
but it's like Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, myasthenia gravis, multiple sclerosis,
1:08:40
autism it's helping with.
1:08:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Would you see that woman that had dementia that
1:08:45
took five grams of mushrooms and slept for like 19
1:08:48
hours and woke up and then she could talk? No.
1:08:51
You didn't see that story? No. Yeah. It was a
1:08:53
recent story. There was a woman. She was nonverbal. She
1:08:56
couldn't communicate. She couldn't dress herself, couldn't walk, couldn't do anything.
1:09:00
Took five grams of mushrooms, slept for 19 hours, came back,
1:09:03
started communicating, looked at people in the eye, was able
1:09:05
to change herself, was able to walk around.
1:09:08
Speaker 3: How beautiful.
1:09:09
Speaker 1: Crazy. And then with subsequent doses, her condition improved even more. Yeah.
1:09:14
Speaker 3: And you had– I think it was Paul Stametson. And
1:09:19
he helped his mother through cancer, I think, like stage
1:09:22
three cancer with turkey tail or something. I can't remember
1:09:25
what it was. Well, there's a bunch of mushrooms that
1:09:27
help with inflammation. There's a bunch of mushrooms that help
1:09:30
with cognitive function. You know, lion's mane is famous for that.
1:09:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, there's some weird relationship that we have
1:09:39
with fungus. And one of the interesting things about fungus,
1:09:42
we think of it as like a plant, but it's not.
1:09:44
It breathes air, breathes air like people do. It's a
1:09:48
weird thing. And it also can survive in a vacuum.
1:09:52
It can survive in the vacuum of space. Yeah. Which
1:09:55
is the panspermia notion that mushroom spores came here riding
1:10:01
on an asteroid, slammed into the earth, and it might
1:10:05
be one of the reasons why we're people in the
1:10:07
first place. That's McKenna's idea.
1:10:09
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:10:09
Speaker 3: Of how we like separated from our ancestral like Cro-Magnon roots.
1:10:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this whole idea that people were
1:10:19
created by aliens. Yeah, maybe. Maybe those aliens are mushrooms.
1:10:24
I mean, or maybe mushrooms is the way the aliens
1:10:26
created people. Yeah. You know, it might be just how
1:10:29
you add a little bit of fertilizer to the tomato
1:10:32
plants to make them awesome.
1:10:34
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's just every generation. Like this generation says, oh,
1:10:39
we're in this computer simulation right now. But, you know,
1:10:43
during the Industrial Revolution, the universe was a machine. And
1:10:47
we started doing electricity and the universe was energy and vibration.
1:10:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:10:51
Speaker 3: And now we invent computers and all of a sudden
1:10:53
the universe is a computer. It's just every iteration. And
1:10:56
so I tend to think that any theory that assumes
1:11:00
humans are super special, I'm a little skeptical.
1:11:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:11:06
Speaker 3: Because it assumes that A, like these ancient, like way
1:11:11
up high beings have like a MacBook.
1:11:14
Speaker 1: MacBook.
1:11:15
Speaker 3: That they're trying to run this shit.
1:11:16
Speaker 1: Right.
1:11:16
Speaker 3: And they're like, well, the hard drive would need to
1:11:18
be the size of the solar system. Like just assuming
1:11:21
that they have the same shit that we do.
1:11:23
Speaker 1: Right. It's unbelievable. Yeah. That's a funny comparison. They used
1:11:28
to think the universe was a machine. It's apt. It's
1:11:32
so dead on. We always want to try to figure
1:11:36
it out. I think it's way more complicated. And I
1:11:39
think the more we figure it out, the more we
1:11:40
realize it's way more complicated. And it is all connected.
1:11:44
Like people are super special. We really are. But so
1:11:47
is everything else. Exactly. Everything is super special. Yeah. And
1:11:51
everything is weirdly connected. Yeah.
1:11:54
Speaker 3: And even if you look at regular-ass science, just basic-ass science,
1:11:59
and you look at an Alan Watts quote of like
1:12:01
we are the universe experiencing itself, that's just regular science.
1:12:05
If we are the Big Bang, then we are the
1:12:08
universe and we are experiencing itself.
1:12:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:12:11
Speaker 3: And you don't need to do any stretches of imagination
1:12:14
for that to be true.
1:12:15
Speaker 1: And Roger Penrose doesn't even think the Big Bang is
1:12:19
the start of the universe. He thinks it's a series
1:12:22
of Big Bangs. Oh, really? Yeah. He thinks it's like
1:12:24
a never-ending cycle. Did you have him on? Yeah, a
1:12:26
long time ago. Wow. What year we have Roger Penrose on?
1:12:30
Speaker 3: Isn't it Sir Penrose now?
1:12:32
Speaker 1: Yes. Didn't he get knighted? Sir. I'm American, though. Yeah.
1:12:35
I tend to shy away from those foolish knight. I mean,
1:12:40
that's another thing. Oh, he's a knight. That's a king.
1:12:45
Speaker 3: I don't know if we talked about it last time.
1:12:49
Have I told you that I figured out a way
1:12:51
to edit memory?
1:12:54
Speaker 1: No.
1:12:55
Speaker 3: Like you can do it with hypnosis.
1:12:57
Speaker 1: So I know that you can introduce false memories into
1:13:00
people's heads.
1:13:01
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:13:01
Speaker 1: And I know that people create their own false memories. Yeah.
1:13:04
So you found a way to do that different than that? Yes. And.
1:13:11
Speaker 3: I make videos similar to this on my YouTube channel.
1:13:14
But I wanted to walk you through this process because
1:13:17
I think you would love it.
1:13:18
Speaker 1: Okay.
1:13:20
Speaker 3: So if I want somebody to be able to edit
1:13:23
a memory, I need to make them good at that
1:13:25
skill first. And we already edit memories. Every time we
1:13:29
touch a memory, like if I think back to my
1:13:32
wedding right now, I'll edit something and I'll do it unknowingly.
1:13:36
Speaker 1: Right.
1:13:37
Speaker 3: So if our brain is already an expert at making
1:13:40
these changes, and then like before I stopped thinking about
1:13:44
that wedding, my brain automatically clicks file, save, right? And
1:13:49
then so the next time I look back on it,
1:13:51
the memory is going to be there, but I won't
1:13:53
see it as an edit. I'll just see it as
1:13:56
that's the memory, no matter how many times I change it.
1:13:59
Does that make sense?
1:14:00
Speaker 1: Yes. Okay.
1:14:02
Speaker 3: So first we need to get them to start doing
1:14:04
some of that stuff consciously. So if you take somebody
1:14:09
back to, let's say, a childhood bedroom when they're seven, okay,
1:14:14
and you do it very vividly with hypnosis. So like
1:14:18
you're going in their file cabinet. You let them explore
1:14:21
the bedroom, the details, all this kind of stuff. You
1:14:23
make it extremely vivid and coherent. And then you have
1:14:27
them pick up like a pencil, a really sharp brand-new pencil,
1:14:31
maybe from their pencil box from school or something. And
1:14:34
they go over by the light switch in the bedroom
1:14:37
and just make one dot on a wall. And I
1:14:41
figured this out talking to game developers. And I was
1:14:44
talking to game developers about how people figure out ways
1:14:47
to exit the map, to exit the playable area of
1:14:50
the game. Because it kind of feels like that's what
1:14:52
psychedelics do. It lets us kind of exit this little
1:14:57
playable map temporarily. So one of these game developers said, oh,
1:15:02
you just– if you can get somebody– to modify one pixel,
1:15:06
then they can modify the entire map. So if one
1:15:10
pixel is glitching, then we can glitch, you can glitch
1:15:13
all kinds of stuff. So I thought maybe we can
1:15:15
do that in humans. So I've done this hundreds of times.
1:15:19
So you just make a mark on the wall with
1:15:22
a pencil and then you kind of fast forward their life.
1:15:24
So like you bring them to like, say there were six.
1:15:28
Now we're going to bring them back into the room
1:15:29
when they're eight. The bed sheets are different. Maybe the
1:15:32
wall color changed, something like that. But the one thing
1:15:35
they can do is walk over there to the light
1:15:36
switch and see that that tiny little dot is still there.
1:15:40
So something– and now you're starting to see that there's
1:15:43
permanence through time. Does that make sense so far?
1:15:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:15:47
Speaker 3: So if we can get them to do that like
1:15:49
50 times, tiny change.
1:15:52
Speaker 1: You're doing it through hypnosis? Yeah. Okay.
1:15:55
Speaker 3: I mean hypnosis is such a loaded, crazy word.
1:15:58
Speaker 1: Right.
1:15:58
Speaker 3: They're relaxed. They feel safe. And their brain is in
1:16:01
theta brainwave state most of the time, which is around
1:16:03
seven hertz.
1:16:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been hypnotized. And I thought it was going
1:16:07
to be like I didn't know what was going on.
1:16:10
I was in another world. No, it's a very odd
1:16:13
state of mind. Yeah.
1:16:15
Speaker 3: It's kind of like guided meditation. But you feel very conscious.
1:16:18
Speaker 1: It's not. And I remembered it. It wasn't. Yeah. Didn't
1:16:22
wake up my pants off. It was pretty normal.
1:16:24
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:16:25
Speaker 1: It didn't become a Manchurian candidate. As far as you know.
1:16:28
As far as I know.
1:16:29
Speaker 3: Right. So if you can do this 15, 20, 30
1:16:34
times of one pixel at a time and show that
1:16:37
it's permanent through time, then you can go back to
1:16:39
other events. And instead of editing the memory itself, you
1:16:42
teach them how to shift perspective. So now you take
1:16:45
them through 30 more events really quick. A true event,
1:16:47
a birthday party, a dinner, adult life, children, doesn't matter.
1:16:51
And now, like, let's say I'm at a dinner party.
1:16:54
Can I jump from one body to another and experience
1:16:56
the event through that lens? So first we make them
1:16:59
an expert at editing memory and seeing permanence in time.
1:17:03
Second is perspective shifting in real memory. So I can
1:17:07
jump across the table. I can be at my own
1:17:09
wedding and maybe be somebody in the front row and, like,
1:17:11
just shift their perspective in memory. The final layer is
1:17:16
exactly what psychedelics do. So the final layer is go
1:17:19
back to that. event when you got kicked in the
1:17:22
nuts and everybody laughed at you in elementary school or whatever.
1:17:26
And you can reprocess that memory in a very short
1:17:29
amount of time as an adult with the perspective of
1:17:33
an adult.
1:17:34
Speaker 1: So meaning like, so if you had a traumatic event
1:17:37
in high school where somebody beat you up in front
1:17:38
of everybody and everybody mocked you and it just like
1:17:40
destroyed your year and destroyed your confidence, you can go
1:17:44
back and shift this person's experience. Yeah. Yeah.
1:17:47
Speaker 3: And instead of modify the memory, like, no, that never happened.
1:17:51
The memory stays, the perspective changes. So now you show
1:17:56
permanence over time. So that has downstream effects for all
1:18:01
kinds of stuff later in life. So this is when
1:18:03
a script got written of, I've got to be tough,
1:18:05
I've got to be loud, or somebody's going to hurt me,
1:18:07
or you know what I mean? Like one of these
1:18:09
little childhood scripts. So you get the downstream effects. So
1:18:13
you can go in there And you could probably edit memories.
1:18:17
I've always been nervous to modify stuff that's way more
1:18:20
than like a pixel or something insignificant. But the memory
1:18:24
stays the same. The perspective is what changes. And you
1:18:27
can show that it's got a demonstrable effect downstream of that.
1:18:32
Their whole life can be different after that day. And
1:18:35
it's just like a mushroom. That's exactly what psychedelics do.
1:18:39
It's this massive perspective shift on memory.
1:18:42
Speaker 1: And so is this something that you're actively doing? With clients,
1:18:48
I'll do this on occasion. Is anybody else doing it?
1:18:53
Maybe a few.
1:18:53
Speaker 3: There's probably a few people doing it.
1:18:55
Speaker 1: And is there any times where you guys get together
1:18:58
and discuss techniques and what's effective and what's not effective?
1:19:01
There should be.
1:19:03
Speaker 3: We don't.
1:19:04
Speaker 1: Right, because it seems like this is kind of a
1:19:06
big deal and it seems like someone could fuck it up.
1:19:10
Like it has the potential for delusional perspective shifting. Yeah.
1:19:16
Speaker 3: I mean you've got to be responsible about it. But
1:19:19
nowadays I think that psychedelics can achieve a lot of
1:19:23
that without having to go through some– like I need
1:19:25
you to go back to the original event and like
1:19:27
having me vocally take you back there using this archaic,
1:19:31
stupid-ass language that can't even describe a psychedelic experience with
1:19:35
this language.
1:19:36
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
1:19:38
Speaker 3: This is what I was doing mostly before psychedelics. Then
1:19:42
you know how I got into psychedelics was, uh, the
1:19:44
spirit molecule movie that you've, you did the voiceover for it.
1:19:48
And that was what kind of introduced me to the entire,
1:19:51
the field of everything where I thought, wow, this, it
1:19:54
just doesn't seem like a recreational drug. And that was
1:19:57
the big shift was watching that, that documentary for me.
1:20:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:20:00
Speaker 1: My big shift was reading Rick Strassman's book.
1:20:05
Speaker 3: I still haven't read it. I need to.
1:20:06
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, He was the first guy to get FDA
1:20:10
approval to do psychedelic studies. And the way he did
1:20:14
it was very clever. He did it to prove that
1:20:17
these are damaging and dangerous. That's how he framed it.
1:20:20
Speaker 3: That's so brilliant.
1:20:22
Speaker 1: He's a very smart guy. I mean, you're talking about
1:20:25
a guy who taught himself ancient Hebrew. Oh, wow. Yeah,
1:20:30
over 16 years taught himself to read and speak ancient Hebrew.
1:20:35
So that he could really read the Bible in its
1:20:37
original form. Wow. Yeah. He's fascinated by prophecy and ancient
1:20:44
religious stories. And, you know, he, like a lot of
1:20:47
people that have had DMT experiences, you, um, once you do,
1:20:52
you look at those old stories and you go, okay, what,
1:20:55
what are these stories really? What was the original, what
1:20:59
was the original event? Like it's so hard when you're, you're,
1:21:04
Like Moses and the burning bush. Well, there's scholars in
1:21:07
Israel that think that burning bush was the acacia tree,
1:21:10
that the acacia tree is rich in DMT. And that
1:21:14
might be what it represents, this experience of meeting God
1:21:17
through a burning bush as he smoked DMT. Yeah. Which
1:21:22
for anybody who's done DMT, they go, oh, that makes sense.
1:21:26
I mean these scholars– I don't think these scholars are freaks.
1:21:30
I don't think they're psychedelic heads. I think they're just
1:21:32
religious scholars that are trying to figure out what was
1:21:34
the origin of that story. Yeah.
1:21:37
Speaker 3: I've never heard of that.
1:21:38
Speaker 1: The acacia. Yeah. Well, acacia tree, very rich in DMT.
1:21:42
But phalaris grass, very rich in DMT.
1:21:46
Speaker 3: Mimosa plant.
1:21:47
Speaker 1: And for people that don't know, the reason why– well,
1:21:52
DMT exists in probably thousands of different plants. But you
1:21:56
can eat those plants and not experience DMT because of
1:21:59
monoamine oxidase. So mono– MAO is what your gut makes
1:22:05
to break this stuff down so it doesn't become psychoactive.
1:22:08
But when you take an MAO inhibitor and the psychedelic,
1:22:12
then you get ayahuasca. That's what ayahuasca is. That's why
1:22:15
it's an orally active version of DMT.
1:22:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, which methylene blue is an MAOI.
1:22:21
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting.
1:22:22
Speaker 3: It's a pretty light– it's a pretty light form of it.
1:22:25
But if you're on methylene blue and you do psychedelics,
1:22:27
it's going to deepen– I can imagine.
1:22:30
Speaker 1: A lot of people are very hesitant about methylene blue.
1:22:33
They don't like the idea of it. They think it's
1:22:34
very dangerous or potentially dangerous that we don't know enough
1:22:37
about it.
1:22:38
Speaker 3: We've been researching it since 1890-something, and it's in every
1:22:42
emergency room.
1:22:43
Speaker 1: Is it really? Every emergency room. Have you ever heard
1:22:45
of anybody having bad experiences with methylene blue or side effects?
1:22:49
Speaker 3: There are some contraindications. So people that are on a
1:22:52
high-dose SSRIs.
1:22:54
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
1:22:55
Speaker 3: And if you're taking an MAOI, you can't eat aged
1:22:57
cheese and wine because of this chemical called tyrosine that's
1:23:01
in there.
1:23:02
Speaker 1: Oh, aged cheese. Yeah. So something about the fungus?
1:23:08
Speaker 5: The mold?
1:23:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe there's red wine and aged cheese both have tyrosine,
1:23:14
which when you mix tyrosine with an MAOI, it can
1:23:17
cause a hypertensive crisis.
1:23:19
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
1:23:20
Speaker 3: So like a super blood pressure issue. But I haven't
1:23:25
heard anybody having a bad time with it. But you've
1:23:28
got to stick to the right dose. Obviously, you've got
1:23:30
to talk to a doctor about it.
1:23:32
Speaker 1: Well, let's ask AI. Put that into AI. Put that
1:23:36
into perplexity. See what is the negative consequences of taking
1:23:41
methylene blue. Maybe there's something that we don't know. Huberman
1:23:47
is a little bit hesitant about it. And I've talked
1:23:51
to other people that say it seems like for certain
1:23:54
metabolic conditions, it's very beneficial. But for people that have
1:23:57
a normal metabolic– like your whole system is working fine
1:24:01
and perfect, it might not just not be necessary but
1:24:05
might cause harm. But they were very vague about what
1:24:08
that harm would be.
1:24:09
Speaker 3: I don't think it's for everybody. It may not be
1:24:10
for everybody. It saves my life for sure. Which, I mean,
1:24:16
I could stop taking it today and I'll have a
1:24:18
seizure within 48 hours.
1:24:20
Speaker 1: That's wild. Yeah. You said you had a seizure last
1:24:23
time after you visited here?
1:24:25
Speaker 3: The night before I came on the show.
1:24:28
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay. Methylene blue. This is our AI sponsor, Perplexity.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, my toilets are actually stained.
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Speaker 1: From pee? Yeah. Yeah, it does make your pee blue. Sweating,
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feeling hot or cold, muscle twitches, harmless, blue-green discoloration of urine,
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sometimes stool or skin, serious risk, serotonin syndrome when combined
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with antidepressants, just like you were just saying, or other
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serotonogenic drugs, SSRIs, It has NRIs, MAOIs, some opioids, St.
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John's wort.
1:25:14
Speaker 3: G6PD is a big contraindication there. So methylene blue is
1:25:18
in ERs because of methemoglobinemia, which is like when your
1:25:23
hemoglobin can't bind to oxygen really well. It says it
1:25:27
right there. And it's also the only cure for cyanide
1:25:30
poisoning is methylene blue.
1:25:32
Speaker 1: Really? Yeah. Cyanide?
1:25:35
Speaker 3: It will stop cyanide in its tracks.
1:25:38
Speaker 1: Whoa.
1:25:38
Speaker 4: Wow.
1:25:40
Speaker 3: It probably says that on here.
1:25:42
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting. Safety for chronic low-dose experimenting for anti-aging or
1:25:47
cognition is not well established and is not currently recommended
1:25:51
without medical supervision. Hmm. I know a lot of people
1:25:58
that take it. I know a lot of people that
1:26:00
take it. I know Bobby takes it. Uh-huh. He's one
1:26:04
of them. A lot of people that take it that
1:26:07
say it improves cognitive function. It's supposed to also, when
1:26:13
you take it with red light therapy, it's supposed to
1:26:16
greatly increase the effectiveness.
1:26:17
Speaker 3: Unbelievably so.
1:26:18
Speaker 1: Yeah?
1:26:19
Speaker 3: Really? If you want to go into it for just
1:26:22
a minute here.
1:26:22
Speaker 5: Sure.
1:26:23
Speaker 3: Methylene blue has what's called a neuronal affinity. So they
1:26:27
used to, like you stick it on a microscope slide
1:26:29
with a brain cell, it sucks into the neuron, like automatically.
1:26:33
And it does the same thing in your body. So
1:26:36
if I know that I'm I'm basically dyeing all of
1:26:40
my neurons blue. And I'm not just talking about in
1:26:42
your head. Like we have neurons everywhere, our whole body.
1:26:46
So if I'm dyeing a lot of my neurons blue
1:26:48
and I see something that's blue, methylene blue is blue
1:26:51
because it reflects blue light, which also means that it
1:26:55
absorbs almost all red. So if my neurons are dyed
1:27:01
blue and then I go into near infrared and infrared light,
1:27:05
I know that I'm getting blue. way more absorption in there.
1:27:09
Speaker 1: Let's fucking go.
1:27:10
Speaker 3: That makes sense. In the third stage of cellular breathing,
1:27:16
we produce this chemical called cytochrome C oxidase. And cytochrome
1:27:20
is like cell color, cytochroma, where our cells can start running,
1:27:24
essentially running on photons, which is beautiful and amazing. And
1:27:30
if you get a good red light system, and I
1:27:33
have no plug, Um, but you get a good red
1:27:35
light system. It'll penetrate through the skull up to like
1:27:38
four inches through your skull in good systems.
1:27:42
Speaker 1: Whoa. Even lasers.
1:27:44
Speaker 3: They make laser beds and all this other stuff.
1:27:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have a, one of those red light bed.
1:27:48
Those looks like a tanning bed. I bought it from
1:27:50
Gary breakfast company. It's very expensive, but it's pretty profound. Um,
1:27:55
I don't need, uh, reading glasses anymore. I used to
1:27:58
have these fucking things everywhere all over my house. I
1:28:01
used to need them to read my phone. If I
1:28:03
wanted to read an email, I don't need them anymore. Wow. Yeah.
1:28:07
It's nuts. I don't bring them with me anymore. If
1:28:10
I would go on the road before and I had
1:28:12
to do a trip for the UFC or whatever and
1:28:14
I didn't have my reading glasses, I'm like, fuck. Now
1:28:16
I got to make everything big. I can't read anything.
1:28:19
Not anymore. No, my vision got better from red light therapy.
1:28:23
I don't doubt it. For sure. I also don't close
1:28:26
my eyes. I keep my eyes wide open. It's like, oh,
1:28:29
you need goggles. Like you're fucking staring at some nuclear
1:28:35
bomb or something. It's not. No. So it doesn't seem
1:28:38
to bother my vision at all. Yeah.
1:28:40
Speaker 3: And I've heard so many doctors– and obviously none of
1:28:43
this is advice for anybody. I've heard so many doctors
1:28:47
say throw the safety goggles in the trash. Look right
1:28:51
into it if you want to.
1:28:52
Speaker 1: It's going to help your eyes.
1:28:53
Speaker 3: There's so many stories of people with macular degeneration and
1:28:56
glaucoma and eye conditions and stuff that it's gotten– Multitude
1:28:59
is better than it was.
1:29:01
Speaker 1: Obviously my story is anecdotal, but my vision was shifting
1:29:06
in a real bad way. I was using three, those
1:29:09
three power ones, you know, those cheap– these things are cheap.
1:29:12
I buy them off Amazon. But I used three and
1:29:15
I started with one, like one power and then it
1:29:17
got to two power and then I got to three.
1:29:19
I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm fucking going blind. I can't
1:29:21
see shit. I don't need any anymore. Now, my vision
1:29:25
is not perfect. It's not 2020. It's not what it
1:29:28
used to be. So when I read things, it's like
1:29:31
maybe slightly blurry. And if I put reading glasses on,
1:29:33
I look a little better. But I don't need them anymore.
1:29:36
And it keeps getting better. I also take lutein and
1:29:40
a bunch of different supplements. I take this no affiliation.
1:29:44
I don't work with them or anything. But it's called
1:29:47
Pure Encapsulations Macular Support. They have a supplement for it.
1:29:51
I take those. I've been taking those steadily at the
1:29:55
same time I've been doing the red light therapy. And
1:29:59
it works. At least it works for me. It worked
1:30:03
for Whitney Cummings. Same thing with her. Her vision got
1:30:05
way better. She's very diligent about it. She does it
1:30:08
every day.
1:30:09
Speaker 3: There's something there.
1:30:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. Something there. Well, there's for sure something about staring
1:30:15
at a fucking phone all day that's really bad for
1:30:16
your eyes. Staring at a phone, staring at a tablet,
1:30:19
staring at a laptop, staring at a computer screen. It's
1:30:22
not good for your eyes, period.
1:30:24
Speaker 3: There's no way.
1:30:24
Speaker 1: There's no way.
1:30:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:30:25
Speaker 1: When I look at my phone in bed at night,
1:30:27
if I do, it hurts my eyes.
1:30:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:30:30
Speaker 1: You know, like if it's dark in the room and
1:30:32
I'm like, let me check my email real quick. I
1:30:34
get to my email. It's like, it's like it's bright.
1:30:37
If I go to a website that's like a white website,
1:30:39
it's like, oh, it hurts.
1:30:41
Speaker 3: Yeah. And did you know you can change your iPhone?
1:30:45
Like if you go into accessibility. It's like color overlay.
1:30:50
Speaker 1: I forget the name of it. Where you can make
1:30:51
the whole screen red. I have seen people do that.
1:30:54
I have not done that.
1:30:56
Speaker 3: I've tried to do it on mine. It's tough. But
1:30:59
I did it on our two-year-old's iPad. And nothing is
1:31:03
addictive anymore. Like she won't sit there and stare at
1:31:06
it for more than three or four minutes anymore.
1:31:08
Speaker 1: Whoa.
1:31:09
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:31:09
Speaker 3: And it's just like I didn't buy some special device
1:31:12
or anything. You just go into accessibility and make it red.
1:31:14
And it used to be that she would just sit
1:31:15
there and hold the iPad. I'm an anti-electronics guy. So
1:31:21
I wanted to try this experiment. And the moment I
1:31:24
turned it red, she didn't complain about the red. She
1:31:26
got used to it within 15 minutes and never complained again.
1:31:29
Her iPad has never gone off of the red mode.
1:31:32
And she doesn't get hooked into shows anymore.
1:31:35
Speaker 1: Whoa.
1:31:36
Speaker 3: She'll watch it for a few minutes and be like, okay,
1:31:38
that's great. Put it down and then she'll go play.
1:31:41
Speaker 2: Wow.
1:31:43
Speaker 3: So it's worth an experiment if anybody's got little small
1:31:46
kids out there. Or do it to yourself.
1:31:48
Speaker 1: It's amazing that they provide you with a tool to
1:31:51
escape the addiction that they've created. It's so true, man.
1:31:57
Because it's a pretty intense addiction. I think they feel
1:32:00
like good luck. You're never getting off this hook. This
1:32:04
hook is sunk in deep and the barb is strong.
1:32:07
Big time. It's so strong.
1:32:10
Speaker 3: And it's the production tool of– of reality right now.
1:32:15
If I want to alter reality, I've just got to
1:32:18
engineer how you see it. And that's, that's the way
1:32:20
that we see realities. What's on my phone.
1:32:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's the problem that a lot of people
1:32:25
have with tech companies is that you're giving these people
1:32:28
that aren't particularly wise. They might be intelligent. They figured
1:32:32
out how to code these things and make these things
1:32:35
and market these things, but it's not like they're monks.
1:32:38
They're not these like profound visionaries that are, Much more
1:32:42
educated and enlightened than the general population. No. A lot
1:32:46
of them have autism. No empathy. They're out of their
1:32:49
fucking minds. And they're optimizing the software continually to get
1:32:54
people to engage with it.
1:32:57
Speaker 3: They want you to. I mean that's the EBITDA. That's
1:33:00
the bottom line revenue comes from ads. And how many
1:33:05
ads can I show you? And your data.
1:33:08
Speaker 1: How much data of yours can I sell? Yeah. It's nuts.
1:33:12
Speaker 3: Which is why, like, I think it's so important for
1:33:14
people to be literate, extremely literate in what's going on
1:33:20
with your phone, what's going on with your brain and psyops,
1:33:22
like the shit that we see coming out of the
1:33:24
news right now. And I'm the guy that trains psyops.
1:33:27
In two days after I leave here, I'm going to
1:33:30
Fort Bragg to train the United States Army Psyops Division.
1:33:34
I'm the guy.
1:33:35
Speaker 1: What are you training them in? Are you allowed to say?
1:33:38
Speaker 3: In psyops.
1:33:39
Speaker 1: Are you just training them how they work and how
1:33:41
to do it?
1:33:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the body language, like people reading guy. I
1:33:45
don't know if you've ever seen our YouTube channel, The
1:33:47
Behavior Panel.
1:33:47
Speaker 1: Yes. You've got a great YouTube channel. It's awesome. Really good.
1:33:50
Thank you. Thanks.
1:33:52
Speaker 3: And I have another one with three other behavior profilers
1:33:56
where we break down videos of people in interrogation and
1:33:59
stuff like that. And I think it's so important to
1:34:02
be literate in a lot of this stuff and how
1:34:05
does our brain work? How can I be compromised? And
1:34:09
so I created a tool. And I gave it to
1:34:12
Jamie before we started the show. That will give you
1:34:14
a 1 to 100 score on how likely something is
1:34:17
a psyop.
1:34:19
Speaker 1: Oh. Is it an app or is it like on
1:34:21
a website? It's just a PDF. Okay.
1:34:23
Speaker 3: And you can run anything through it. And you can
1:34:25
run it historically and see what's a psyop and what's not.
1:34:30
And it's kind of subjective. But at least you get
1:34:34
a standardized score for everything. And you can see like
1:34:37
if you went to– Um, like the invading Iraq initially.
1:34:43
Speaker 1: Okay. That's a good one.
1:34:44
Speaker 3: That would score a 98 out of a hundred for,
1:34:46
for SIOP just on this tool here. So like it
1:34:50
kind of goes in layers. So step one is like
1:34:53
this pre-ignition, like I have societal stuff going on. There's
1:34:56
moral panic, then operational. Are there drills happening that are
1:35:00
kind of similar to this military ramping up the regulatory?
1:35:05
Obviously it's pretty there. Like Bills getting passed at 2
1:35:08
in the morning.
1:35:09
Speaker 1: Right. 5,000 bills. Then alignment.
1:35:12
Speaker 3: So like people suddenly aligning different news agencies. And then authorities,
1:35:18
celebrities are starting to come out with the same messaging
1:35:20
and stuff like that.
1:35:21
Speaker 1: And then media.
1:35:22
Speaker 3: Like just kind of flooding little slogans and stuff. So
1:35:25
if that kind of score is kind of high, and
1:35:27
you don't even need the numbers right now, then we
1:35:29
move to the next one. So has this happened before,
1:35:32
the precursor anomalies? Like have they done this before? Well,
1:35:35
a matter of fact– They gave people LSD against their
1:35:39
will at MKUltra or whatever. Like is there some precursor?
1:35:42
Speaker 1: Right.
1:35:43
Speaker 3: And then identical phrasing across unrelated outlets. So we see
1:35:46
something on MSNBC and Fox saying the same kind of
1:35:49
phrasing or something. That's kind of suspicious. And then introduced
1:35:53
villains that are prepackaged.
1:35:56
Speaker 1: Pretty obvious.
1:35:57
Speaker 3: Injecting symbolism. And then the manufacturer urgency. Like if this
1:36:02
bill isn't passed in the next 72 hours, we're going
1:36:04
to face a national crisis and all this kind of stuff.
1:36:07
Speaker 1: And then you could just kind.
1:36:08
Speaker 3: Of go down the, go down the walkway and it'll
1:36:11
give you a predictive score of how likely something is
1:36:14
a psyop. And one of the biggest things is if,
1:36:18
if you don't want to like, this is a lot
1:36:20
of crap to like to memorize, but are you seeing
1:36:24
authority figures resonate with each other? And are, is nuance
1:36:28
not being presented to you? And that's like, if I'm
1:36:31
not seeing nuance, if I have a left versus right
1:36:33
issue and there's a prepackaged.
1:36:35
Speaker 1: Villain, uh, That's a sign-out.
1:36:38
Speaker 3: If you just look at those couple of things, nowadays
1:36:41
we have a death of nuance where no one is
1:36:43
getting presented any nuance to anything. It's either you're on
1:36:47
this side, you're wearing this jersey or this jersey, which
1:36:50
is really toxic to our whole entire country, the whole world.
1:36:55
Speaker 1: And it's accentuated by clips and these weird little things.
1:36:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you're on the left– Take out nuance.
1:37:01
Let's say I'm on the left. When I log into–
1:37:05
Social media, whatever it is. They're going to show me
1:37:07
the dumbest shithead morons on the other side that they
1:37:11
could possibly find. And the same thing if I'm on
1:37:14
the right. They're going to show me the biggest idiots.
1:37:16
And the only goal is being like me thinking, oh,
1:37:20
my God, these people are insane. And it's me thinking that's.
1:37:23
Speaker 1: All of them.
1:37:24
Speaker 3: But like if you go to Target right now and
1:37:26
see somebody that voted differently than you, you want the
1:37:29
same shit. You want your kids to be healthy. You
1:37:32
want safety. You want to pay less taxes. You want
1:37:34
the government– less and less involved in your life. And
1:37:39
they're not all insane, but the goal is to make
1:37:41
you think all the other side is insane, right? That's
1:37:43
the ultimate side. So then at the end, you kind
1:37:46
of get a one to a hundred score. And I
1:37:50
started a, I bought a TV station. Did I tell
1:37:53
you about this? No, I was going to text you,
1:37:55
or I was going to send you an email about this.
1:37:58
I bought a TV station. We started our own daily
1:38:02
news show where we, run the day's events all the
1:38:07
way through the PSYOPs index every single day. And we show,
1:38:10
here's how you're being presented. Here's how you're being made
1:38:12
to feel about this issue. Here's where nuance has been
1:38:15
taking out every single thing that's truly going on. Here's
1:38:19
the bill that got passed that nobody's talking about that
1:38:21
has a lot to do with this. They're saying the
1:38:24
Strait of Hormuz is going to open, but here's what
1:38:26
Brent Crude is predicting oil prices at. So the insurance
1:38:29
market has a lot more info than the news is
1:38:32
going to give you. So I try to give you
1:38:35
every single day, here's how you're being made to feel.
1:38:38
Here's the actual news. Here's what the left is going
1:38:41
to say. Here's what the right's going to say. And
1:38:43
here's where they're killing nuance. Here's where you're being presented
1:38:45
a binary choice. And I think I'm trying to, like,
1:38:51
I want to make psyops irrelevant. And what we have
1:38:57
to do, what are the steps we have to take
1:38:58
to not really inoculate people from psyops, but just to
1:39:01
make them so fucking visible that it's just obvious. And yeah,
1:39:07
they're going to have to invent something else and they will.
1:39:10
But at least for a few years, people are really
1:39:13
wise to everything. Like, this is very obvious because like
1:39:16
all the things that were up on that sheet right there,
1:39:19
If you look at that a few times, it starts
1:39:21
to become irrelevant and like my goal is to make
1:39:25
people more expensive to influence.
1:39:30
Speaker 1: I think it's possible. I think if this gets out there,
1:39:34
the more people are aware and just can piece it
1:39:37
together and the more that narrative starts getting pushed and
1:39:40
people start repeating it. Like let's pay attention to this.
1:39:43
When you say you bought a TV channel or a
1:39:45
TV station, what do you mean? Like an actual station.
1:39:48
Speaker 3: A physical station with a news desk and– Where does
1:39:52
it air? It's on YouTube right now. So where did
1:39:55
you buy this place? Was it just like– Ten minutes
1:39:57
from my house. So it was a former TV station
1:40:00
that was like going out of business?
1:40:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:40:01
Speaker 3: We retrofitted everything, upgraded it.
1:40:04
Speaker 1: But it's– There's probably a fire sale on TV stations
1:40:07
right now.
1:40:07
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was– we got a good deal.
1:40:11
Speaker 1: Nobody's watching TV. That's great.
1:40:14
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:40:14
Speaker 3: We retrofitted it and like the quality– Up there with
1:40:18
like Fox or anybody else. Like we have a daily show.
1:40:20
Speaker 1: What's the daily show on YouTube called?
1:40:23
Speaker 3: Station One.
1:40:23
Speaker 1: Station One. Yeah. Surprisingly, that wouldn't take it. It's a
1:40:27
new channel? Yeah. Oh, perfect.
1:40:29
Speaker 3: Brand new channel. We have like most of the subscribers
1:40:31
were my mom, I think, for the first month. We're
1:40:35
growing now.
1:40:36
Speaker 1: So you just started it off and no fanfare. Just
1:40:39
try to get the feet on the ground. Yeah. Try
1:40:41
to kick it off.
1:40:43
Speaker 3: And it's. You know, I do it with my YouTube channel,
1:40:46
which I've got 2 million-something subscribers on YouTube. And it's
1:40:51
cool that I can make these documentaries. But you know
1:40:53
on YouTube, like, you can't change it up on people. Like,
1:40:57
the algorithm punishes when you change things. So we had
1:41:00
to start a new channel.
1:41:02
Speaker 1: Interesting.
1:41:03
Speaker 3: Like, you guys started JRE Clips because you can't, like—
1:41:09
Back in the day, the algorithm said you can't do
1:41:11
short-form and long-form stuff, and the algorithm kind of punishes
1:41:14
you for that. So you had to make a new
1:41:15
channel for it, probably what Jamie did or the team did.
1:41:19
Speaker 1: I don't remember what the initial reason was. I think
1:41:23
we decided it would be good just to have a
1:41:25
second channel as well anyway just in case because there
1:41:28
was always the threat that YouTube was going to remove us. Okay.
1:41:31
Which I do think that if it wasn't for Spotify–
1:41:35
And it wasn't for the fact that I was primarily
1:41:37
on Spotify. I probably would have been removed during the
1:41:40
whole COVID thing. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Because we
1:41:43
were regularly questioning a bunch of different things that could
1:41:46
have got you removed. We were regularly questioning the COVID
1:41:51
lab leak. We were regularly questioning whether or not there
1:41:55
was any danger to taking these vaccines, regularly questioning alternative
1:42:00
medical care. Yeah.
1:42:02
Speaker 3: And that was maybe the The biggest psyop of our lifetimes.
1:42:07
Speaker 1: For sure. And now confirmed.
1:42:10
Speaker 3: That woke up normal people. That woke up average people.
1:42:14
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Because it was so obvious. Woke up a lot.
1:42:17
Some of them, like, they just can't shake them. They're
1:42:20
on 15 ambience. Fucking. Yeah. They're just, they're going to stay.
1:42:24
Speaker 3: I've got family members that are very trustful of government.
1:42:27
And they were like, no, Chase, if it was going
1:42:30
to go bad or if it was this thing, they
1:42:31
would tell us. And I was like, these are the
1:42:32
people who gave you the food pyramid.
1:42:34
Speaker 1: Right.
1:42:35
Speaker 4: And told you to eat 16 loaves of bread every.
1:42:40
Speaker 1: Day. And, yeah, it's the idea that the government is
1:42:44
here to help you. It's like, that's the dumbest.
1:42:47
Speaker 3: That was Reagan's best line.
1:42:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. That they're the five. Yeah. We're the government and
1:42:51
we're here to help. Yeah. Yeah, that's... It's interesting how
1:42:57
people will believe in the government if it is convenient.
1:43:01
But then if the other people are the government, then
1:43:04
it's 100 percent negative. Yeah. It's like people are so
1:43:08
ideologically captured. And that's why people are completely unwilling to
1:43:13
look at anything positive that one of the other members,
1:43:18
someone from the other side proposes. Exactly. Which is what
1:43:22
I found really fascinating about the response to the Trump thing.
1:43:27
You know, that Trump passing the psychedelic initiative and trying
1:43:30
to push through Ibogaine and psilocybin and all these different
1:43:35
methods that people have used to overcome addiction and treat
1:43:39
all these different things that we talked about before. They
1:43:41
didn't know what to do with that. That was a
1:43:43
weird one because they tried to find all sorts of negatives.
1:43:46
I saw people trying to find negatives.
1:43:48
Speaker 3: Because it's him.
1:43:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:43:51
Speaker 3: Which is so crazy.
1:43:52
Speaker 1: And there was also negatives because it was pushed by me.
1:43:55
Because the idea was Joe Rogan helping mental health policy
1:43:59
in America. Is that real?
1:44:00
Speaker 3: You're the green guy who takes horse pace though.
1:44:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. And a dragon believer. Yeah. It's an interesting time
1:44:10
to be alive. It really is.
1:44:12
Speaker 3: So emotionally for you, I think if I saw myself
1:44:18
edited like that on CNN or something, I feel like
1:44:21
that would wreck me. I feel like that would emotionally–
1:44:25
make me feel like shit for such a long time.
1:44:27
Speaker 1: Were you just like over it? Oh, it didn't make
1:44:29
me feel like shit for a second. I started laughing.
1:44:32
I thought it was hilarious. Okay. I was also very
1:44:35
aware that they weren't aware that my show was way
1:44:38
bigger than them. See, the thing about mainstream media is
1:44:43
that mainstream media had ruled for so long that they
1:44:47
had gotten delusional. They had been like a champion that
1:44:49
didn't think that he had to train anymore. And then
1:44:52
some new contender came along that had been in the
1:44:55
mountains of fucking Siberia. Yeah. You know what I mean?
1:44:58
Someone came out of the blue and just fucked them up.
1:45:01
And they were– they're so bad at this thing that
1:45:05
they think they run. And they also are very– they're
1:45:09
very unaware of the actual playing field. So the actual
1:45:12
playing field that they exist in is so limited that
1:45:16
they cannot ever achieve the kind of– acceptance or interaction
1:45:24
or trust that alternative media can. So there's too many
1:45:29
people involved. Too many people will most certainly move things
1:45:33
and water things down to like what you were talking
1:45:35
about before. Like here's what I want people to think
1:45:38
I believe, right? Which is most of what mainstream media produces.
1:45:42
It's here's what I want people to think I believe.
1:45:44
You don't believe any of those people reading that teleprompter.
1:45:47
Because none of it seems sincere. Your mind registers this
1:45:51
is a person reading something that's been written. It doesn't register.
1:45:54
And then when you see them talking freeform, like on
1:45:58
those panel shows on CNN, you're like, oh, you guys
1:46:01
are fucking retarded. You guys have some of the dumbest opinions.
1:46:05
You're so uninformed. You're so ideologically captured. This is so
1:46:09
not compelling. They've turned CNN into a fucking group podcast.
1:46:13
That's a lot of the shows on CNN are bad
1:46:15
podcasts with like shitty guests who– no nuance and they're
1:46:21
yelling over each other. Exactly. It's a terrible format.
1:46:24
Speaker 3: No nuance whatsoever.
1:46:25
Speaker 1: It's also the problem that they have to break for commercials. Oh, yeah.
1:46:28
And then there's the problem that the funding for those commercials,
1:46:33
a giant chunk of it is pharmaceutical drug companies. Huge. Yeah.
1:46:38
And as Mike Benz and Cali Means and a lot
1:46:41
of people have talked about. They don't do that because
1:46:45
they want to sell drugs. They do that because now
1:46:49
the news will not criticize the pharmaceutical drug company because
1:46:53
the pharmaceutical drug company is responsible for an enormous part
1:46:56
of their income.
1:46:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:46:58
Speaker 3: And, I mean, I wouldn't say definitively that that's happening. But,
1:47:03
I mean, if you're the CEO or the president, you
1:47:05
know exactly where the money is coming from.
1:47:07
Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
1:47:08
Speaker 3: And if you get a phone call that says, hey,
1:47:10
you know what? Maybe not mention that.
1:47:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. And maybe attack someone who's got a narrative and
1:47:17
turn them green and do all that other stuff. But
1:47:20
like I said, for me, it was making me laugh.
1:47:23
I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny.
1:47:24
I was like, this is such a classic mistake. Like
1:47:28
you guys are completely– Out of touch. Yeah. Just delusional.
1:47:33
Speaker 3: Not understanding the backlash of that, of just doing open–
1:47:38
In your face. Like there was no like, hey, look
1:47:41
over here.
1:47:41
Speaker 1: Right.
1:47:41
Speaker 3: It was just in your face, Psyop.
1:47:44
Speaker 1: Not just that. Also, you're making a green version of
1:47:50
a video that exists on Instagram first. So it's already
1:47:55
out there. You don't think the internet is going to
1:47:57
see that there's a difference in my skin tone on
1:47:59
CNN than on Instagram? On Instagram, I look rosy and healthy.
1:48:03
I wasn't lying. I was making a video. If I
1:48:06
was really sick, I was outside. I was outside having
1:48:09
a– I was like I feel good. I felt shitty
1:48:11
for a day. I was being completely honest. Nor did
1:48:14
I ever think that it was going to be controversial
1:48:16
to talk about ivermectin. I had no idea. So ivermectin
1:48:19
was not a controversial thing. substance before I talked about
1:48:22
it in that one video. It was normal. You could
1:48:26
get it at a pharmacy. Your doctor could prescribe it
1:48:28
to you. Mine did. But he also prescribed to me
1:48:31
a ton of other stuff. Exactly.
1:48:34
Speaker 3: It's so much other stuff like fenbendazole that's now getting
1:48:37
a Into the same category as ivermectin was. And Mel
1:48:41
Gibson talked about it here with you.
1:48:43
Speaker 1: Yes.
1:48:44
Speaker 3: That combo. And there's a study now that shows, I
1:48:47
think it's from 2022, that it's a cancer treatment, like
1:48:51
a new cancer treatment.
1:48:52
Speaker 1: Right. What the hell? I know.
1:48:56
Speaker 3: It's not patented. So it's a demon.
1:48:58
Speaker 1: Exactly. It's a demon and these news stations are all complicit.
1:49:04
They're all in bed with the pharmaceutical drug companies who, again,
1:49:08
are responsible for an enormous part of their advertising budget
1:49:12
and that's where they make their money. Yeah. And they
1:49:14
don't have a lot of people that believe them anymore.
1:49:17
I think they lost a lot of their credibility during
1:49:19
the COVID epidemic. Who?
1:49:23
Speaker 3: Media?
1:49:23
Speaker 1: News media. Yeah. Yeah.
1:49:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:49:26
Speaker 1: And the government. And the government. But most people are
1:49:28
aware like, oh, this is a psyop. And then, of course,
1:49:31
the final straw was Elon purchasing Twitter and then the
1:49:35
Twitter files. So when Matt Taibbi and Michael Schellenberger and
1:49:40
all these different people got a hold of these files
1:49:44
where you could see the emails between the federal government
1:49:48
and these social media companies where they were asking people
1:49:51
to censor true stories. And you're like, what? And then
1:49:56
when Zuckerberg was on my podcast, I explained how the
1:49:59
FBI had contacted him and told him that they wanted
1:50:03
him to censor stories and censor the Hunter Biden laptop story.
1:50:08
Speaker 3: It's terrifying.
1:50:09
Speaker 1: It's fucking crazy. This is literally Banana Republic shit.
1:50:13
Speaker 3: So have you heard of Project Mockingbird?
1:50:16
Speaker 1: Yes.
1:50:16
Speaker 3: Operation Mockingbird. I mean, it's not new. So, I mean,
1:50:21
somebody says like, oh, I can't believe the government is
1:50:22
doing this. I mean, wait a second.
1:50:24
Speaker 1: Just go back. Just look at history. Right.
1:50:27
Speaker 3: And Dr. Phil says one time is a pattern. And
1:50:32
if you go back, there's way more than one time
1:50:34
this has happened. Operation Mockingbird, Walter Cronkite was a CIA asset.
1:50:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:50:40
Speaker 3: Legit CIA asset.
1:50:41
Speaker 1: So is Anderson Cooper.
1:50:43
Speaker 5: Is he?
1:50:43
Speaker 1: Anderson Cooper worked for the CIA when he was in college.
1:50:46
I didn't know that.
1:50:47
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:50:47
Speaker 1: Look that up. Make sure that's true. I'm 99% sure.
1:50:49
99% sure, rather. Julia Childs. Whoa.
1:50:54
Speaker 3: Did you know she was CIA?
1:50:55
Speaker 1: Oh, it was a lovely, lovely little thing. It was beautiful.
1:50:57
She was in the CIA teaching people how to bake?
1:51:01
Speaker 3: I think she did the hand-to-hand combat course.
1:51:06
Speaker 1: Fuck people up with a rolling pin? Is the Anderson
1:51:08
Cooper thing correct? I believe he worked for the CIA
1:51:12
in college. Anderson Cooper interned at the CIA for two
1:51:16
consecutive summers while he was a political science major at
1:51:18
Yale University. He did not pursue a career in intelligence, wink, wink.
1:51:22
After graduating, later describing the agency's desk work at Langley
1:51:26
as less James Bond than I hoped it would be. Yeah. Well,
1:51:30
I think it's all less James Bond. It's more money.
1:51:36
It's more money and influence and what do the people
1:51:38
in power want people to believe. But he's not the
1:51:42
only one. Walter Cronkite.
1:51:44
Speaker 3: There were hundreds.
1:51:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:51:45
Speaker 3: Hundreds and hundreds. So much– it was every network and–
1:51:51
There's no direct– there's no declassified document that says here's
1:51:54
what we told them to say or here's how compromised
1:51:56
they were. But they were compromised completely and most likely
1:52:04
told exactly what to say or what stories to suppress.
1:52:07
Speaker 1: Does Mike Wallace have some sort of a connection? I
1:52:09
don't know. See if Mike Wallace had some sort of
1:52:12
a connection with the CIA. But it's a bunch of prominent, respected,
1:52:19
trusted– News anchors. Yes. Yeah. All over the place. Yeah.
1:52:24
Speaker 3: This was through the 50s, 60s, I think in the
1:52:26
beginning of the 70s until this thing called.
1:52:28
Speaker 1: The— Mike Wallace is famous for his probing investigative reporting
1:52:32
on CBS's 60 Minutes regarding the CIA, most notably a
1:52:36
landmark 1993 report, Carl, titled The CIA's Cocaine. So he's
1:52:42
the opposite. So he worked to expose CIA stuff. The
1:52:46
report exposed a covert CIA anti-drug operation in Venezuela that
1:52:50
allowed hundreds of millions of dollars in cocaine to be smuggled. Okay,
1:52:52
this is an Iran-Contra affair. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so it's
1:52:57
the opposite.
1:52:58
Speaker 3: But with so many things, like somebody's like, oh, I
1:53:01
can't believe COVID's doing this. Look at history again. Like
1:53:05
we dosed millions of people with LSD against their consent,
1:53:10
against their will.
1:53:10
Speaker 1: Was it millions?
1:53:12
Speaker 3: I think, well, there were experiments with aerosol. forms of
1:53:16
LSD that were in cities.
1:53:18
Speaker 1: What? Yeah. I didn't know about that. Jamie. Aerosol LSD
1:53:24
in cities?
1:53:24
Speaker 3: Somewhere near like Vermont or Boston. It was somewhere up
1:53:27
in like the New England area. Dude.
1:53:33
Speaker 2: What kind of a psycho do you have to be
1:53:36
to like get a crop tester plane and fill up
1:53:38
a tank of LSD and just.
1:53:40
Speaker 1: Spray it on kids?
1:53:42
Speaker 3: I don't get it. And then you go back to
1:53:44
when we dosed– I don't know how many African-Americans with
1:53:48
syphilis or we like grouped them together. They had syphilis.
1:53:52
Speaker 1: And didn't treat them.
1:53:53
Speaker 3: And gave them fake treatments and stuff.
1:53:55
Speaker 5: U.S.
1:53:55
Speaker 1: Government has never openly sprayed LSD from their air over
1:53:58
entire cities. However, during the Cold War, intelligence agencies and
1:54:01
the military did conduct covert aerosol and mind control experiments
1:54:06
on the public. What does that mean? It means you
1:54:08
did it.
1:54:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, not from a plane though most likely.
1:54:11
Speaker 1: They probably had a fan and a bucket. CIA's notorious
1:54:16
project MKUltra sought to weaponize LSD and use it for
1:54:20
mind control. CIA operatives were sent to San Francisco to
1:54:23
spray the air with LSD-25 at an unwitting party of guests. Oh,
1:54:28
I did hear about this. The result, the agency ultimately
1:54:31
abandoned the specific aerosol test at the last minute because
1:54:35
the summer weather was too hot. To keep the windows
1:54:38
closed and their specialized aerosol device malfunctioned. There we go.
1:54:44
Speaker 3: Number two, the Army sprayed thousands of unsuspecting Americans with
1:54:49
aerosolized chemicals.
1:54:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. Military released a fine powder called zinc cadmium sulfide
1:54:55
over 33 urban and rural areas. Scroll up a little bit, please. Yeah,
1:55:04
the targeted cities, affected cities included St. Louis, Minneapolis, Winnipeg,
1:55:08
Corpus Christi, and Fort Wayne. St. Louis was deliberately chosen
1:55:12
because its population density and the terrain were similar to
1:55:14
the Soviet targets like Moscow.
1:55:16
Speaker 5: I was just looking up something else. Did you know
1:55:20
about this?
1:55:22
Speaker 1: Why the fuck did Dan Rather and Donald Rumsfeld buy
1:55:25
a New Mexico ranch together in 1981? That's the same
1:55:28
year he was promoted to news anchor at CBS Evening News. Oh.
1:55:33
Good lord.
1:55:33
Speaker 5: And it's also like right next door to the Epstein
1:55:35
Ranch in New Mexico.
1:55:37
Speaker 1: Right. And Epstein famously got that to be close to
1:55:40
Los Alamos, right? So he could lure those scientists over
1:55:44
with pussy.
1:55:46
Speaker 3: Unbelievable.
1:55:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:55:48
Speaker 3: But I mean like you go back through history, this
1:55:50
is– everybody is like, oh, the COVID was crazy.
1:55:53
Speaker 1: It's not new. It's just we hadn't experienced it so
1:55:56
blatantly before because they had never tried something like that
1:55:59
during the age of social media. Yeah.
1:56:02
Speaker 3: And they used a playbook that relied on putting a
1:56:04
letter in the mail or sending a telegram.
1:56:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. They used a playbook also that required having control
1:56:11
over the narratives that were being pushed out by the media. Yeah.
1:56:15
And the media had lost its luster, lost its impact
1:56:18
on people. At the same time, the rise of podcasts
1:56:20
had happened kind of under the radar and they didn't
1:56:23
recognize it. They missed it. They just overestimated their position. Yeah.
1:56:28
Speaker 3: And during COVID, you had more viewers than CNN even.
1:56:31
Speaker 1: Not only that, when they turned me green and all
1:56:34
that cancellation, I gained two million followers on Spotify in
1:56:38
a month. Wow. Yeah.
1:56:41
Speaker 2: Wow.
1:56:42
Speaker 1: People were just like, what is going on that everybody's
1:56:44
trying to cancel this guy? Like, what is he doing?
1:56:46
And then they'd listen and go, oh, it's just a
1:56:49
show where they talk to people. What are they trying
1:56:52
to hide from us? And then you have guys on
1:56:54
like Dr. Peter McCullough and Robert Malone and all these
1:56:57
different people that are. Peter McCullough is the most published
1:57:01
doctor in history, in human history, in his particular field
1:57:06
of study. And they were trying to make him out
1:57:08
to be a quack. And then you see what they
1:57:10
did with Jay Bhattacharya and all these different people.
1:57:13
Speaker 3: And one of those guys was the inventor of mRNA.
1:57:16
Speaker 1: Robert Malone. He has nine patents on the creation of
1:57:20
mRNA technology.
1:57:22
Speaker 3: And he should never be out there telling people that
1:57:24
it might not be safe.
1:57:25
Speaker 1: Not only that, he took it. And had a fucking serious,
1:57:29
horrible reaction where he almost died. Really? Yeah, which is
1:57:33
what prompted him to try to figure out what the
1:57:35
fuck is going on. Oh, my God. Because he was
1:57:36
assured by everyone that it stayed local. It's not going
1:57:40
to cause massive inflammation and myocarditis and all these different
1:57:45
things that it eventually was absolutely causing. And then they're
1:57:51
trying to hide now the impact that it's had on children.
1:57:54
The impact that it's had on children that took it
1:57:57
and how– giant percentage of them that died after taking
1:58:00
it died within days of the injection. And they're trying
1:58:04
to ignore the signal. And there's so many gaslighters all
1:58:07
over Twitter. There's people that are paid to gaslight on Twitter.
1:58:11
That's a fact. Pharmaceutical drug companies, just like a lot
1:58:15
of other companies, will pay people to post. They'll pay
1:58:19
people to attack. They'll pay people to be the voice
1:58:22
of authority and reason so you can assure all the
1:58:25
brainwashed boomers that they're right all along and everything's fine.
1:58:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, and If you just look at basic manipulation and
1:58:34
mind control, the number one fear of human beings is
1:58:38
supposedly public speaking, right? But that's not it. It's the
1:58:43
judgment that might come from public speaking. It's not the
1:58:46
being on stage. It's like, is somebody going to judge me?
1:58:49
Am I going to get ostracized? So the way that
1:58:52
they control a lot of this and gaslight people is
1:58:55
to use the fear of social punishment and social enforcement.
1:59:00
And if I can get one celebrity to go out
1:59:03
there and call these people a name and just give
1:59:07
them a name as if it's a group of people,
1:59:10
you know, like anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist, dragon believer, that kind
1:59:15
of thing. We give it a name and that makes
1:59:18
it easier for other people to socially enforce. And it
1:59:21
comes from an authority figure. So you get the tribe
1:59:24
involved and all you got.
1:59:26
Speaker 1: To do is.
1:59:28
Speaker 3: Fuck up a few people.
1:59:30
Speaker 1: Yep.
1:59:31
Speaker 3: Like Robert Malone.
1:59:32
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
1:59:33
Speaker 3: And they're like, hey, I can take this guy down.
1:59:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:59:36
Speaker 3: What do you think I'm going to do to you?
1:59:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:59:39
Speaker 3: And you just get that fear out there. And that's
1:59:41
all you need to do. And you kind of gaslight
1:59:43
people because now, like, I'm scared enough, but I won't
1:59:46
say I'm scared. I'll say, no, I'd rather not just
1:59:49
say my opinion. So now my identity gets tied into it.
1:59:52
Now it's part of who I am. I'm just not
1:59:53
going to say anything.
1:59:55
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
1:59:55
Speaker 3: And it gets normalized. Like the absolute just let me
1:59:59
mute myself and tape my mouth shut so I don't
2:00:02
get punished.
2:00:03
Speaker 1: And then there's a bunch of people that attack and
2:00:05
do the work for the man because they don't want
2:00:07
to be lumped in with the other side. So they'll
2:00:10
go on social media and call the anti-vaxxers plague rats
2:00:14
and all these different things. And also say the wildest
2:00:17
shit like their children should be taken from them. They
2:00:19
should be locked up, isolated from society.
2:00:23
Speaker 3: And this is something called category warfare.
2:00:25
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of this? I know the expression.
2:00:29
Speaker 3: This guy, I can't remember his name. He wrote a
2:00:33
book called Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things. It was the
2:00:36
first language categories that we had for language. It was women, fire,
2:00:39
and dangerous stuff. I think his name was Lakin, George
2:00:43
Lakin or Lakoff. But if I frame something using a category,
2:00:49
I can change what the allowed behavior is. So if
2:00:53
I say that me and this other person are having
2:00:54
a disagreement, your brain automatically has a list of what
2:00:58
a disagreement is and what's acceptable. But if I say
2:01:01
we're having a fight, now there's new stuff on the table.
2:01:05
And all I did was change how something is defined
2:01:08
in your brain. And we don't consciously process that our
2:01:11
brain is getting permission to do things because.
2:01:13
Speaker 1: Of a category.
2:01:15
Speaker 3: But if I say I've been at war with these
2:01:17
people for a long time, now war is way different.
2:01:21
Or if I say like, I disagree with Rogan. That's
2:01:24
one thing. But if I say Rogan is a threat,
2:01:26
what do we do to something that's.
2:01:27
Speaker 1: A threat, right? We have to neutralize a threat.
2:01:31
Speaker 3: So just small words like that change what our brain
2:01:33
says is permissible in that moment. And that is really
2:01:38
what's going on here. So actually two layers, if I
2:01:41
can go into this for a second. Number one is
2:01:44
this category. Let me just get a category out there
2:01:46
to make your brain think one thing is permissible. The
2:01:49
second thing is, I create the idea in such a
2:01:52
way that you get to feel morally superior for adopting it.
2:01:57
And you don't have to have any new morals or
2:01:59
anything else. You just have to adopt this idea and
2:02:01
you get to feel better than other people. And that's it.
2:02:05
So I changed the category. It means like I can
2:02:07
do something differently. So in a legal argument, if somebody
2:02:12
says we're at war with the other side, this is
2:02:14
my opponent instead of the other person. What do we
2:02:17
do with an opponent? We have to take them down.
2:02:19
Speaker 1: It's a fight. There's a winner. There's a loser.
2:02:21
Speaker 3: There's always assumed competition there. So that is one of
2:02:26
the biggest things that I hope everybody can look out
2:02:29
for as the influence psyops expert. And I'm not immune
2:02:35
to any of this stuff. I buy stupid shit off
2:02:38
of an Instagram ad as much as the next person.
2:02:43
But it's important to know when it's– when something– is
2:02:46
clearly presented to you and it's easy to feel emotional
2:02:51
about it, you're being manipulated. Something's clearly presented and it's
2:02:55
just like here's this one thing and it's really clean
2:02:58
and it's easy to get pissed off about or it's
2:03:00
easy to feel comfortable.
2:03:01
Speaker 1: About or whatever it is.
2:03:03
Speaker 3: If the emotional thing is easy without having to dig
2:03:06
into it, you're being manipulated.
2:03:09
Speaker 1: And that's a giant percentage of what most people consume.
2:03:15
It's– yeah. All day long. Yeah.
2:03:19
Speaker 3: And it's compounding. So if I just consume a little bit,
2:03:24
that's one thing. But now I get a little bit more,
2:03:27
a little bit more, a little bit further into this
2:03:29
rabbit hole. And we get into these, obviously everyone says
2:03:33
this online, but you get into these echo chamber of
2:03:35
social media. All of a sudden, you can find your
2:03:39
people anywhere. You can connect with your people. If you'd
2:03:43
like to make knitted yarn vest for hamsters, you can
2:03:48
find other people that do shit like that. So back
2:03:51
in the day, if you had a bad idea, you
2:03:55
couldn't find a lot of other people that agreed with you.
2:03:58
And now it's easier to find people to agree with
2:04:00
you when you have a shitty idea. So there's a niche.
2:04:03
There's a whole separate niche. And on top, while you're
2:04:06
there getting told that your ideas are relevant and normal,
2:04:10
they're not abnormal because there's so many other people. It
2:04:12
normalizes bad ideas. The second part of that is I'm
2:04:17
with all these people, but then I go back to
2:04:18
normal social media and all I get told all day
2:04:21
is I'm right about those people. I'm right about those people.
2:04:23
I'm right about those people. And it's just, it is
2:04:26
so sick. And, and which goes back to what we
2:04:30
were first talking about, how performative our world is. And
2:04:33
like all of us conceal the shame so much that
2:04:37
we can't ever be seen by anybody. Like we'll go
2:04:39
to the grave and, and feel like, My wife has
2:04:43
never even seen who I truly am.
2:04:47
Speaker 1: And the other thing that's nuts is people have this
2:04:49
complete inability to admit when they're wrong or change course.
2:04:54
They have connected themselves. They've connected their whole being to
2:05:00
whatever their thoughts are, whatever this thing that they've agreed
2:05:04
is real. And once they've defended it, they never want
2:05:08
to go back and objectively look at it and go,
2:05:11
wait a minute. Oh, I believe this and that's not
2:05:15
the case. Oh, this is the case. Oh, I'm wrong. Oh, no.
2:05:19
I got to course correct. No. They dig in and
2:05:23
they try to find other echo chambers that agree with
2:05:26
their initial position and other people that– and there's plenty
2:05:29
of people that will provide those services for you. There's
2:05:32
plenty of people. If you want to live in your
2:05:33
echo chamber, plenty of people real and digital that will
2:05:37
provide you this escape from your ability to learn and grow.
2:05:42
Speaker 3: And a sycophantic AI will help you.
2:05:44
Speaker 1: Oh, they're the best. They'll tell you, you're wonderful, darling.
2:05:46
You're doing the best. I always tell people, you're not
2:05:49
your ideas. And it's one of the most important things
2:05:51
that I've ever learned. You cannot be married to your ideas.
2:05:55
Your ideas are just ideas. And as soon as you
2:05:58
defend them, and as soon as you connect yourself to them,
2:06:01
and as soon as you connect your identity to them,
2:06:04
you're in a fucking trap. You're in a real trap.
2:06:07
And it's very hard to get out without admitting defeat.
2:06:11
Most people don't want to admit defeat. That's how they
2:06:13
look at it. It's like a battle for their existential existence.
2:06:18
Their existence is completely tied in to their belief system. Yeah.
2:06:24
Speaker 3: And we call that cognitive dissonance, right? So I either
2:06:27
have to say I'm a dumbass or those other people
2:06:31
are stupid.
2:06:32
Speaker 1: Right.
2:06:32
Speaker 3: So like when Biden won the election. It was the
2:06:36
same thing. People on the right either had to admit, wow,
2:06:39
I'm stupid and I underestimated what our country is doing
2:06:41
or the other people are just idiots and they don't
2:06:43
know what's going on. Same thing happened when Trump got elected.
2:06:46
Either like the whole country is stupid or I have
2:06:49
to admit that I didn't know what was going on
2:06:51
and I'm out of touch a little bit and maybe
2:06:53
there's something good. I'll just say they're all stupid. Protecting
2:06:58
our identity is so– it's ingrained into us.
2:07:02
Speaker 1: It's the ego thing. I don't want to be wrong.
2:07:06
Speaker 3: And if I am wrong and I'm wrong in public,
2:07:09
then I risk ostracism again. So it's like it's getting
2:07:12
kicked out of the tribe again. It's going back to
2:07:14
the same fear. And people love to do that too.
2:07:16
They love to attack people if they're wrong, love to destroy.
2:07:20
Speaker 1: People and ruin all credibility that they've ever had. You
2:07:26
could have been a public figure for 10 years putting
2:07:28
out great information. You fuck one thing up. People want
2:07:32
to abandon you forever, especially if you don't admit it, especially.
2:07:35
Speaker 3: Oh, you're running for office?
2:07:37
Speaker 1: What about that?
2:07:38
Speaker 3: You took a nude when you were 19. You took
2:07:40
a naked photo.
2:07:41
Speaker 1: What the fuck?
2:07:43
Speaker 3: And that goes back to everyone's pretending like everyone else
2:07:48
has got their shit figured out. And that's why everyone
2:07:50
thinks everybody's got it figured out and I'm pretending. I'm
2:07:53
the one hiding everything. i'm not everyone's got that shit
2:07:57
everyone who thinks like oh they're gonna find out my
2:07:59
skeleton everybody's got skeletons in their clothes everybody's got stuff
2:08:02
like that and it's we're in the age where we're
2:08:06
comparing ourselves to highlight reels and you know dr phil
2:08:09
talks about this all the time and but we have
2:08:12
to realize that there is people want you to be
2:08:18
human and we don't enjoy fake shit. This is why
2:08:23
people are attracted to your podcast. This is why stuff
2:08:27
that's real is trending so much more now. Like we're
2:08:30
attracted to things that are human and flawed. That's why
2:08:34
we buy shit that says handmade on it. We don't
2:08:37
buy like, Oh, machine made. No one celebrates that.
2:08:40
Speaker 1: Right. Right.
2:08:40
Speaker 3: We like the humanness of things. Um, And even when
2:08:44
I say there's a loneliness epidemic going on right now,
2:08:48
everyone will nod their head and no one will raise
2:08:50
their hand. Everyone will say, oh, yeah, it's affecting all
2:08:53
those people. But no one will say it's affecting me.
2:08:56
But they'll all nod along. I think we're getting to
2:09:00
a place where maybe we're coming out of that. Maybe
2:09:04
it's me. Maybe it's my echo chamber. But I feel
2:09:07
like people are waking up. I feel like more people,
2:09:11
not just through COVID, but just Now, just the way
2:09:14
the world is, they're like, well, you know what? This
2:09:16
doesn't really feel– it doesn't really– it feels weird for
2:09:19
me to hate and feel hatred towards one of my
2:09:22
neighbors who didn't vote.
2:09:23
Speaker 1: Like I did. That feels weird. Yeah.
2:09:25
Speaker 3: Just to hate someone for that reason. I think people
2:09:29
are waking up that maybe the plan is going too fast.
2:09:32
Maybe they're taking it too quickly. They're trying to go
2:09:36
through all these steps too fast is what it feels
2:09:37
like to me.
2:09:38
Speaker 1: Well, also, I don't think they're competent. I don't think
2:09:42
they're good at it. And that's part of the problem.
2:09:44
Good at what? Good at projecting narratives. I don't think
2:09:49
the people that are necessarily in charge of propaganda, at
2:09:53
least people at a government level, I don't think they're
2:09:56
particularly slick. No. And that's part of the problem with
2:09:59
all this.
2:10:00
Speaker 3: It's like when you're at a middle school sleepover and
2:10:02
the dad comes in trying to be cool.
2:10:03
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, kids, what are you guys doing? That's
2:10:06
the government trying to run this shit. This is when
2:10:09
you get syringes dancing on stage on a late night
2:10:12
TV show.
2:10:12
Speaker 1: Right. That was nuts. Yeah. Well, it's also a person
2:10:19
who seems completely insincere. You know? Yeah. That version of him.
2:10:25
It's weird because the version of him that was on
2:10:27
The Daily Show was awesome. Like it was this caricature.
2:10:31
Speaker 3: And irreverent.
2:10:32
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:10:32
Speaker 1: And he was raw and irreverent. Yeah. But you realize, oh,
2:10:35
that was just really good writers. Yeah. They have really
2:10:38
good writers that created a fun Republican character that was
2:10:42
a buffoon, but like a hilarious buffoon. Yeah. And then
2:10:48
he went and did a TV show and you're like, oh,
2:10:51
the real you is weird.
2:10:56
Speaker 3: But I think our saving grace is what you're talking about,
2:11:00
is that they suck at this.
2:11:01
Speaker 1: Like, yeah.
2:11:02
Speaker 3: When your teacher announces there's going to be a pizza
2:11:05
party and expects everybody to be super freaking out about it, like, yeah,
2:11:09
it's pizza. But the government's like, hey, guess what we
2:11:12
got for you?
2:11:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:11:13
Speaker 3: We got this new data coming out, this new data.
2:11:16
And the psyops are working less because of the spread
2:11:20
of information. So people say, oh, social media is bad.
2:11:22
You shouldn't be on social media. Well, some of that
2:11:25
is what's exposing this stuff.
2:11:27
Speaker 1: Yes.
2:11:28
Speaker 3: And we have people out there that are like you.
2:11:32
And I'm not kissing your ass here, but you're willing
2:11:34
to say shit that sounds preposterous at the beginning of
2:11:38
something and just make an observation that's real. And you're
2:11:42
willing to just– the way that I phrase this in
2:11:45
a lot of our training at my training is called NCI.
2:11:51
The way that we phrase this is like the first
2:11:53
ingredient of confidence is the willingness to receive social injury.
2:11:59
And we need more of that. We need more people
2:12:01
willing to receive social injury.
2:12:03
Speaker 1: Well, the position that I was in during the COVID
2:12:06
thing was very unique. So it was almost easy for
2:12:13
me because I had already gotten such a head start.
2:12:16
I was so far ahead of them. They didn't realize
2:12:19
that my ability to say, wait, this doesn't make any sense.
2:12:23
Like none of this makes any sense. And also, why
2:12:25
am I green? And also, why are you guys lying?
2:12:28
Why are you lying about all sorts of different things?
2:12:30
Why are you measuring troponin levels when you're talking about
2:12:33
myocarditis and not the actual scans of people's hearts when
2:12:36
you realize young people are getting legitimately fucked up from
2:12:40
this vaccine? Not all of them, but some of them.
2:12:42
Why aren't you looking at that? How come you guys
2:12:44
aren't looking at vaccine injuries? It seems like a significant
2:12:47
thing that people are talking about. You got soccer players
2:12:50
dropping dead in the middle of the field and no
2:12:53
one's bringing that up? You're trying to gaslight us into
2:12:56
thinking that that doesn't make any sense. I was in
2:12:58
a unique position to be able to do that because
2:13:02
I had like almost like quietly snuck up to this
2:13:10
and had this large audience that they weren't aware of.
2:13:13
So when it happened, it was just, it was just like,
2:13:17
I couldn't do anything other than what I did. I
2:13:20
had to just keep doing it the way I did it.
2:13:22
And it was– the blowback was crazy. They tried to
2:13:25
crush my sponsors. They organized campaigns. There was PACs involved. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
2:13:33
Thank God I was on Spotify. And thank God Spotify
2:13:36
is not an American company. And also it helped that
2:13:40
I was number one in like 90 countries and not
2:13:43
number 90 in one country. Yeah. That helped. Yeah. That
2:13:47
helped a lot. The size of it was– it was
2:13:51
like it was so big. As big as they were,
2:13:53
they're like, uh-oh. And then there's the Streisand thing. Like
2:13:58
you try to silence something, you're just going to make
2:14:01
it bigger. If it kicked me off of Spotify and
2:14:04
I had to go to Rumble, it would have just
2:14:06
blown Rumble's stock up and it would have helped everybody. Yeah.
2:14:11
Speaker 3: I didn't know that there was that much shit going on.
2:14:13
Speaker 1: In your life. Oh, I can't even talk about it.
2:14:15
But there was presidents involved and former presidents involved that
2:14:19
were contacting Spotify. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Trying to get
2:14:23
me removed for vaccine misinformation. Yeah. Turned out to be right.
2:14:29
All of it. Not a single fucking apologize.
2:14:32
Speaker 3: Interviewing the dude that invented mRNA.
2:14:34
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
2:14:35
Speaker 3: And the most published doctor in his field.
2:14:37
Speaker 1: Not a single apology. Not a single apology from anybody.
2:14:40
Not a single retraction. Not a single mea culpa. Not
2:14:44
a single we were wrong. And, you know, I lost
2:14:48
a lot of sponsors. I lost a lot during those days.
2:14:52
It was interesting. There was a time where it was working. Wow.
2:14:59
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:15:00
Speaker 3: I didn't know there was that much coordination.
2:15:01
Speaker 1: Oh, there was a lot of coordination. Oh, people are
2:15:03
going to be pissed off at you. I don't talk
2:15:05
about it too much because it's pretty deep. It was nuts.
2:15:11
But it didn't work, right? But they tried. And they tried.
2:15:15
They spent a lot of money.
2:15:17
Speaker 3: A lot of money.
2:15:20
Speaker 1: It wasn't a small amount of money. It wasn't a
2:15:22
small amount of people. It was a lot of people
2:15:25
and a lot of money.
2:15:26
Speaker 3: Good Lord.
2:15:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. That part was spooky. But the turning my face
2:15:31
green was hilarious. That didn't bother me at all. That's good.
2:15:34
It's also I'm a comedian.
2:15:36
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
2:15:36
Speaker 1: Like I'm a shit talker. Like that's what I do.
2:15:39
If you talk shit to me, it's like you're not
2:15:40
going to hurt my feelings that much. It's like I'm
2:15:43
used to it. It's normal. It's a part of the
2:15:45
game that I play. So, you know, especially if you're
2:15:49
doing it and there's a video that's the real video
2:15:52
that's available for anybody that goes on my Instagram page. Like,
2:15:56
fucking retards. It is crazy. It's a stupid checker move.
2:16:01
It's so dumb.
2:16:02
Speaker 3: And I think that what we see as authority hasn't
2:16:06
changed in 200,000 years. But I think that what we
2:16:11
consider to be social authority has been modified. Just kind
2:16:15
of in the human side of things.
2:16:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:16:17
Speaker 3: Like it used to be, oh, this guy has got
2:16:19
a suit and tie on. Now all these CEOs are
2:16:22
wearing a hoodie or a t-shirt or something. Like the
2:16:26
visual definition of authority has changed and the social definition
2:16:32
of authority has started to change now. Whereas it used
2:16:35
to be mainstream news and now we're moving into like
2:16:37
a post-news era of something.
2:16:41
Speaker 1: I don't know what the next thing is going to be. Well,
2:16:42
I mean what Elon always says is you are the
2:16:44
news now and the– The rise of independent journalists and
2:16:49
what you have, what you're selling, what is your currency
2:16:55
is authenticity and honesty. And as long as you don't
2:16:59
break from that, as long as people don't find out, oh,
2:17:02
he's secretly getting all this money from AIPAC. He's secretly
2:17:05
getting all this money from Russia, secretly getting all this money. And,
2:17:09
you know, oh, there's meetings where they've had– where they've
2:17:12
told people what narratives to push and then you see–
2:17:16
people on Twitter that are supposedly new influencers, and then
2:17:20
you see them almost cut and paste the exact same
2:17:24
message over and over again. And then you find out, oh,
2:17:27
there's actual campaigns where you're paid large sums of money.
2:17:31
If you have a large following, large sums of money,
2:17:33
like significant amount of money to be a person who
2:17:36
pushes narratives online. That's your job. You are literally a
2:17:40
paid propagandist. And once people find that out, you're going
2:17:44
to lose a lot of your... people that are paying
2:17:48
attention to you that take you seriously but there's going
2:17:50
to be enough that don't know about it, that just
2:17:52
see the tweet and like, oh my God, is that true? Like,
2:17:55
oh my God, that's crazy. And enough casuals where you're
2:17:58
going to get some traction, but you have sacrificed the
2:18:01
one thing that you need to survive in this environment,
2:18:05
and that's authenticity and honesty. If you don't have those
2:18:08
two things, you're fucked because when the mind reading software
2:18:12
gets uploaded and everybody knows.
2:18:17
Speaker 2: You and me will be all right yeah they would
2:18:21
probably look at some of our brains and go dude
2:18:23
you're fucked up but you're fucked up too everybody's fucked
2:18:27
up we're all fucked up it's like how do you
2:18:28
behave what do you do how do you manage your
2:18:31
fucked upness what do you do uh what do you
2:18:34
do with your time what do you do with your
2:18:36
life yeah we're gonna know we're gonna know yeah We're
2:18:40
going to know a lot of people.
2:18:41
Speaker 1: Online are just demons. They're just demons in the real
2:18:46
sense of the term. If you had a demon, if
2:18:50
you were a demon, if actual demons were real, what
2:18:55
would they be doing? What would they be doing? Well,
2:18:57
they would most certainly be trying to ruin people's lives.
2:19:02
They would most certainly be trying to spread hate. Spread misinformation.
2:19:06
Confuse people.
2:19:08
Speaker 3: Get you to compare yourself to other people.
2:19:10
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Destroy you psychologically. Get you to take medications
2:19:13
that you don't need.
2:19:15
Speaker 3: Make you think that you're not enough.
2:19:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Make you think you're not enough. Take money
2:19:21
and sacrifice other people's health and safety just for whatever
2:19:26
financial compensation you've got. You've been given to push a narrative. Yeah. Yeah.
2:19:30
It's demonic. And it's separation.
2:19:33
Speaker 3: All of that is like you are separate from these people.
2:19:35
Speaker 1: They don't matter.
2:19:36
Speaker 3: You shouldn't care about them.
2:19:37
Speaker 1: You are separate. They are different things. You're not connected.
2:19:40
You're not the same thing. And that's how people justify bombings.
2:19:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:19:44
Speaker 1: That's how people justify war. That's how people justify all
2:19:47
sorts of horrific behavior that human beings still engage in.
2:19:50
Speaker 3: What did George Carlin say? I think he said conspiracy
2:19:53
is not required when interests all align.
2:19:56
Speaker 1: Right. That's a great quote. Yeah. That's a great quote.
2:19:59
He had so many bangers.
2:20:00
Speaker 3: He said it's a big fucking club.
2:20:02
Speaker 1: Yep. And you're not in it. You're not in it.
2:20:04
He had so many bangers. Yeah, he did. But there's
2:20:06
a few people that are in the club. That's what's interesting.
2:20:09
There's a few people that get in that fucking club.
2:20:12
And then all of a sudden their opinions change. Yeah.
2:20:15
All of a sudden they soften up on stances. Or
2:20:18
they get killed on a campus.
2:20:21
Speaker 3: Have you had somebody on your show that you thought
2:20:22
was compromised?
2:20:23
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
2:20:24
Speaker 3: You have to name names.
2:20:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. I've had people on
2:20:27
my show that I guarantee are here to try to
2:20:30
push a narrative. Yeah. A hundred percent. No doubt. And
2:20:35
my own– I think in some cases it's obvious and
2:20:40
my job is to just keep them talking and let
2:20:42
the internet do its job.
2:20:44
Speaker 3: Can I teach you a tactic right now?
2:20:46
Speaker 1: Sure.
2:20:46
Speaker 3: That will be good for these people?
2:20:47
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah. All right.
2:20:48
Speaker 3: How much time do we have?
2:20:49
Speaker 1: We've got time. OK.
2:20:51
Speaker 3: All right. So this is a CIA method called elicitation.
2:20:57
And it was invented by this guy, John Nolan. And
2:21:02
so the basic premise is you're going to get the
2:21:04
more sensitive information you need out of a person, the
2:21:07
less questions you should be asking.
2:21:10
Speaker 1: So here's how it works.
2:21:12
Speaker 3: You can get sensitive information out of people better with
2:21:16
statements than questions. So there's a few different types of
2:21:20
these statements. So the first one is called a provocative statement.
2:21:24
And the provocative statement is just making a commentary on
2:21:27
what somebody said. So let's say I just went through
2:21:29
X and Y and Z and you're like, so, so basically,
2:21:32
and then you kind of recap what I said.
2:21:34
Speaker 1: Right.
2:21:35
Speaker 3: And so no question. And then I'll kind of, yeah.
2:21:37
And so I'll kind of, I'll keep giving you a
2:21:40
little bit more information. The second is triggering a need
2:21:44
to correct the record. So let's say you and I
2:21:48
are in a grocery store and I say, Joe, let's
2:21:52
say you don't get recognized. Let's say, go over there.
2:21:55
I want you to, within 60 seconds, I want you
2:21:57
to find out how much the girl that's stocking the
2:21:59
shelf over there makes per hour. So you might go
2:22:03
over there and be like, hey, how much do you
2:22:04
make an hour? But instantly you're weird. And that feels
2:22:07
like an interrogation, right? But if you went over there
2:22:10
and you said, hey, I just read this article. Everybody
2:22:13
that works at Whole Foods got bumped up to $ 26
2:22:15
an hour. That's fantastic.
2:22:17
Speaker 1: Congratulations.
2:22:17
Speaker 3: And she's like, what? We only make $ 22 an hour.
2:22:24
And now she doesn't feel interrogated. And the answer came
2:22:28
from correcting the record. Does that make sense?
2:22:31
Speaker 1: Yes.
2:22:32
Speaker 3: So now you're not a weirdo who's asking how much
2:22:34
she makes. Yeah. So now you got the sensitive information
2:22:37
and it felt like it was just a flowing conversation.
2:22:41
So the third is disbelief. So somebody says something and
2:22:46
you don't get Jamie to pull up anything. But the
2:22:48
disbelief is like they say, oh, and I've even worked
2:22:51
with X and Y and Z or I've done this
2:22:52
one thing and you're like, what? There is no way.
2:22:56
That just sounds impossible. And then they're like, no, no, and,
2:22:59
and they'll keep going because there wasn't a question. So
2:23:03
imagine if someone started telling you something sensitive and you're like, yeah,
2:23:06
tell me more. Tell me more about that. It seems
2:23:09
like you're kind of wanting to pull things out. So
2:23:12
the more that you can use statements, the more they're
2:23:15
just going to keep feeling completely comfortable giving you stuff.
2:23:18
Speaker 1: What's interesting is I don't know those methods, but I
2:23:21
do all three of those.
2:23:22
Speaker 3: You do a lot of that stuff.
2:23:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:23:24
Speaker 3: I just wanted you to be able to consciously grab
2:23:26
onto it.
2:23:26
Speaker 1: I just do it instinctively. Yeah. I've seen you do
2:23:29
it many times. When I smell bullshit, my instinct is going,
2:23:34
hold on. So what you're saying is, and you just
2:23:37
give a touch of incredulity, just a little bit of skepticism. Yeah.
2:23:43
And then allow them to. Kind of like expand on
2:23:47
it and go, OK, so you're saying that this. All right.
2:23:49
So are you sure that that's the case? Because a
2:23:53
lot of people think this. No, no, no. And I
2:23:58
do it sort of naturally. Yeah. Because the most important
2:24:02
thing is to listen as much as possible and keep
2:24:04
them talking. And don't interrupt too much. But sometimes you
2:24:08
have to. Sometimes you have to. You're pushing. Hold on.
2:24:13
This is horse shit. Like this is like I'm going
2:24:15
to get grilled for this online if I don't like
2:24:18
stop this right dead in its tracks because I know
2:24:21
and you know that you're lying. Yeah. So let's– and
2:24:26
then– but you also got to like keep them on
2:24:27
the hook. So like you don't want to submit them yet.
2:24:31
You got to like, oh, look, you got out of
2:24:33
the arm bar. Crazy.
2:24:35
Speaker 3: And a couple of those, you make them correct you
2:24:37
and you also say like, well, that had to be
2:24:39
challenging or that sounds fascinating. And just those tiny little
2:24:43
comets that just kind of keep them pulling along. The
2:24:45
Russians did this to America during the Cold War. A
2:24:51
submarine would pull into Singapore or Thailand or something. And
2:24:53
some KGB guy.
2:24:55
Speaker 1: Would go up.
2:24:56
Speaker 3: There's a 19-year-old sailor at a bar and say, like, well,
2:25:00
we just– Russia already has all these specs. And it's
2:25:04
amazing that Russian submarines are faster than U.S. submarines because
2:25:08
our propellers are 19 feet wide. And the sales like, yeah,
2:25:11
ours are 21. Like just just correcting the record, just
2:25:16
a tiny little thing, correcting the record. And some 19
2:25:19
year old kid gives away top secret information in 35 seconds.
2:25:23
Speaker 1: Wow.
2:25:25
Speaker 3: So that's where this stuff came about. And when you're
2:25:29
like if you work in the nuclear field, you have
2:25:31
a top secret clearance. You have to go through anti-elicitation
2:25:35
training before you leave the country and go spend time
2:25:38
with some foreign national.
2:25:39
Speaker 1: God, I hope so. Yeah.
2:25:42
Speaker 3: And you know what the number one thing in the
2:25:43
first day of counterintelligence school, the first thing they say is,
2:25:48
if you're a four and she's a 10 and she's
2:25:51
interested in you, she's a spy.
2:25:57
Speaker 1: That is the most primal and effective of all tactics
2:26:01
is hot women.
2:26:02
Speaker 4: It is.
2:26:03
Speaker 1: And also we see with James O'Keefe, chatty gay guys.
2:26:07
You see a lot of like hot guys. Yeah. You
2:26:10
get chatty gay guys give up a lot of data. Yeah.
2:26:13
They give up a lot of fucking information.
2:26:16
Speaker 3: Way more than I would ever think.
2:26:17
Speaker 1: Oh, it seems like the chatty gay guys are worse
2:26:19
even than the guys that are trying to impress the women.
2:26:22
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:26:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder how far they have to go. I
2:26:25
wonder how many guys they have to sleep with. I
2:26:28
don't want to know. I wonder. I mean, for sure,
2:26:30
there's been a straight guy or two unless they recruit
2:26:34
gay guys for the job, you know. Because gay guys
2:26:38
wouldn't feel nearly as bad for having sex with another
2:26:42
gay guy to get information out of them, I think,
2:26:45
than a woman would. A woman would feel like a whore.
2:26:48
A man who fucks some other guy that he'd probably
2:26:51
fuck anyway. It's probably no big deal. Guys don't feel
2:26:59
as bad about that.
2:27:00
Speaker 3: And have you ever read Red Queen?
2:27:02
Speaker 1: No.
2:27:02
Speaker 3: It's about biological behavior. It talks about adultery. females occurs
2:27:07
during ovulation most of the time.
2:27:09
Speaker 1: Really?
2:27:10
Speaker 3: Fascinating stuff in there. But one of them was that
2:27:14
women are reluctant about sexual activity because they face the
2:27:18
risk of raising a child alone. And it's not a
2:27:23
conscious thing. There's some biological driver that says, if I
2:27:29
am not careful here, I'm going to be stuck with
2:27:31
this child alone. And 200,000 years ago, if someone abandons
2:27:37
you and you're pregnant and then you're raising a child
2:27:39
on your own, you're kind of off the market. And
2:27:42
no one's bringing you meat. No one's bringing you fish
2:27:45
out of the river and all this kind of stuff.
2:27:48
So I thought that was interesting. And that may be
2:27:51
one of the reasons that it might be easier for
2:27:54
dudes to go do something like that.
2:27:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, we'd have to ask James, this guy. It's
2:27:59
got to be a reason. Well, it's also– I think
2:28:03
especially in politics, there's a large amount of in-the-closet gay
2:28:07
guys that are in all sorts of levels of politics,
2:28:13
all sorts of levels of government.
2:28:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:28:16
Speaker 1: I have no doubt.
2:28:17
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:28:17
Speaker 3: I think it's been that way since Rome though.
2:28:19
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a very peculiar kind of
2:28:24
person in the first place that wants to control all
2:28:27
the other people.
2:28:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know the difference between today and Rome
2:28:30
is the concealment of the shame about it. And I
2:28:34
think most people don't know the difference between shame and guilt.
2:28:39
Shame is a destructive force. There's nothing good about it.
2:28:43
There's nothing positive about it. Guilt is focused on understanding
2:28:49
the behavior. And shame is focused on the person, the
2:28:52
identity of the person who did it. And there's nothing
2:28:55
productive like beating the shit out of yourself emotionally. It
2:28:58
does not make the other person who you've harmed any better.
2:29:01
It doesn't make the world any better.
2:29:02
Speaker 1: It's down.
2:29:04
Speaker 3: I made a video on my YouTube channel basically giving
2:29:08
a review and a tutorial of Planet Earth as if
2:29:11
it was a video game.
2:29:13
Speaker 1: What's that video called?
2:29:15
Speaker 3: I think it's called Earth is a Game.
2:29:17
Speaker 1: Ooh.
2:29:18
Speaker 3: So it's basically like a 20-minute, like, without breaking character, like,
2:29:23
I'm giving a review. I'm actually in the game right now,
2:29:25
and I'm making a tutorial and a review of this
2:29:27
video game that we call Earth. And one of the
2:29:32
things I said in the video is the developers don't
2:29:35
tell you what the main goals are of the game.
2:29:38
How do I get on the leaderboard? What's the way?
2:29:41
Speaker 1: How do you win?
2:29:42
Speaker 3: And we went through like 10 different metrics, but at
2:29:45
the end of the day, I think what gets you
2:29:48
on the leaderboard is were you an upward force on
2:29:51
most people's lives that you encountered? Did you leave people
2:29:55
better than you found them?
2:29:56
Speaker 1: That's about it.
2:29:58
Speaker 3: That's about fucking it.
2:29:59
Speaker 1: Wow.
2:30:01
Speaker 3: It's like am I a downward force on other people?
2:30:03
Am I pushing people down constantly or am I just
2:30:07
doing something else? And you remember like the moment you
2:30:11
launch into DMT, you're like, oh, my God. I was
2:30:14
worried about taxes.
2:30:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:30:18
Speaker 4: I'm 17 black holes away and I was worried about
2:30:20
my I-9 form or something.
2:30:22
Speaker 3: I thought that was such a big deal. And it's
2:30:24
the same thing that people, like, I think if you
2:30:27
want to learn the number one, and this is my rambling,
2:30:30
but the number one lesson I think most people can
2:30:33
learn is from people that are dying. People on their deathbed.
2:30:36
There's no better book you could read about how to
2:30:39
master this game, about how to get good at earth,
2:30:42
is reading the regrets of dying people. Because there's so
2:30:47
much clarity at these moments where you know you're going
2:30:49
to die. Like, oh my God, I thought all this shit.
2:30:51
I thought that Lexus, I thought I had to get
2:30:54
the Lexus. I had to impress everybody at the country
2:30:56
club who didn't give a shit about me. And I
2:30:58
didn't spend time with my grandkids. I didn't spend time
2:31:01
with my kids. Like everything gets so crystal clear in
2:31:04
those moments that I think those are the best books
2:31:06
in the world. Like you read, I think there's a
2:31:08
lot of nurses that work in hospice that write and
2:31:12
like collect a lot of these things. And it's just,
2:31:15
So much perspective on what we think is so important.
2:31:18
Speaker 1: And then at that moment, like.
2:31:19
Speaker 3: Oh, my God, I can't believe I prioritize all that shit.
2:31:22
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think this is a perfect way to end this.
2:31:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, man.
2:31:25
Speaker 1: That was awesome. Thank you very much. Okay. So Station One,
2:31:29
is that what it is? Yeah. Channel One or Station One?
2:31:31
Speaker 3: Station One.
2:31:31
Speaker 1: Station One on YouTube. Yeah. And then your show is,
2:31:35
what's the channel? Or Chase Hughes on YouTube. Chase Hughes
2:31:38
and Station One.
2:31:39
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:31:39
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, man. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Joe.
2:31:41
It's awesome. It's really, really good stuff. Thanks, man. Thank you.
2:31:44
Speaker 4: All right.
2:31:44
Speaker 1: Bye, everybody.
2:31:45
Speaker 5: See you.