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Navigating Teen Friend Groups with Dr. Kelly Jameson · The Bubble Lounge (Highland Park & University Park Texas)

• 0:00
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• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Bubble Lounge.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Martha Jackson, and today we're delving in into an important topic for every parent: friendship groups among teens and the impact they have on their emotional and social development.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Friendships are a vital part of growing up, but the challenge is in this technology-driven world, teens have a harder time developing friendships.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I invited Dr.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Kelly Jameson, an expert in teen parenting, to join us.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: She's here to help us navigate the ups and downs of teen friendships and offer advice on how we can support our kids through it all.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being here today, Dr.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Jameson.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I have followed you for a while on social media and I absolutely love your content.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's so relevant for teens and parents alike because it is a crazy world that we're in right now and there's a lot to navigate.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: And one of your posts that really hit home with me recently was your post about friend groups, just the dynamics and getting into the groups, and then once you're in the group, how to how to navigate all that.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I invited you today because I know there's more people than me out there that need advice just how to charter the waters here on this.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: So tell us about what we're seeing now because I've really heard that catchphrase, friend groups, once my kids got to middle school.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: I really hadn't heard it before that.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I even hear parents that are like really into who's in what group and all that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: So tell us what's going on.
• 2:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: So really two things.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I love this topic.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so glad we're doing this today.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Really two things in regards to friend groups.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, the word group is somewhat new.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a lot of talk about our group, her group, their group, he's not in our group, she's not in our group.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: We can't combine that group with that group.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just the word group is so prevalent right now that it feels so territorial for these kids, which I think is the reason so much conflict occurs around it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And secondarily, we're seeing huge friend groups.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the bigger the friend group, the cooler you are, the more status you have.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So between the territory of his group, our group, their group, her group versus the size of the groups, it is really hard for these kids and parents, frankly, to navigate this on a weekly basis.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it seems like in these bigger groups, you don't really have the opportunity to be yourself and be an individual.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's kind of like more of a herd mentality, wouldn't you say?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I just had a very a post on that very same thing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: What happens is these kids get inside of a big group, and then their entire MO is to not lose their spot in the group.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you don't disagree with the leader, you don't wear something outside of the norm, you literally have to just maintain status, and usually that's by not rocking the boat, which goes to your point of then they can't really be themselves if the whole goal is to just stay in the group at all costs, even if it means sacrificing your authentic style or your opinions or your thoughts.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how do how does somebody rise to the top and become the quote unquote leader?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a lot to do with that.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's different for boys and girls.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, a mean girl is is grown from kind of a mean mom, honestly, unless there's some sort of major trauma in this child's life.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Generally speaking, they have sort of been groomed to be a mean girl.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So they've watched a parent who has been a little bit of a social climber or a lot of social engineering that's happening.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a lot of parents that just want their children at the top at all cost.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So they raise a child this way, and then the child figures out quickly how to be socially savvy, and those are the kids that rise to the top pretty quickly.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that is so interesting.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I I have heard stories of parents that socially engineered their kids, and that sounds like exactly what you're describing there.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, these parents, moms specifically, will study older kids to kind of figure out how to get their child to the top.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we see this with sports, we see it socially, we see it even in academic circles with children whose primary identity is just being a good student.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are there are parents in every arena basically strategizing how to get their child to the top.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, when you're um working with families, what kind of advice do you give them?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes I feel like I was a little bit too laid back of a parent because I didn't pay attention to things like that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: And there's been times that at least one of my kids have said, I wish you would have social engineered me and gotten me in the right group.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is your advice to parents?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's tough.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: You have to know what your child needs.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a little bit of a Goldilocks scenario.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Too much is not good.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Too little is not good either.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So as a parent, you have to find that sweet spot to help your child to an extent, but not to completely overly engineer their life.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Which is why we're seeing kids with such crazy anxiety because everything is curated around them, and their job is to just show up and do the thing that has been set in front of them.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really not childhood or adolescence development, it's not developmentally appropriate.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so much has changed, you know, since I was a teenager.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I find myself trying to relate back to my time when I'm giving advice to my kids.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: And each of them has said, Mom, that's not relevant anymore.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: No one does that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: How do you teach parents to kind of parent on today's terms and realize that what you knew is a lot different now?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, foundationally it is the same, but the mechanics of it are a little bit different.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as a therapist, I can tell you when I'm sitting across from teenagers, they are repeating word for word what parents say.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So even if it appears they're not taking everything in, I promise you they are retaining things.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it comes out in therapy.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: So different, like socially, when they're really struggling, and when you're sitting in their bedroom and it's midnight or 1 a.m.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: after a tough night out and there's been a lot of social drama, I promise you they're soaking in everything.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: But before that event at five o'clock at night, you know nothing.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of times it's they appreciate the reflective nature of your advice after an event more so than before.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you you want to prevent yourself from giving them a ton of advice before.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to do this.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, remember, so-and-so, so-and-so, and my kids are like, mom, like they don't want to be coached before the event.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: But afterwards, when they have some sort of context to talk about, okay, that's when your best parenting gems are gonna come through.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're gonna say something that is going to hit whatever happened that evening, and then they will think, oh, she kind of knows what she's talking about.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one bit of advice.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's really, really good.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Watching your mom care tirelessly for your dad can be both heartwarming and heartbreaking.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: You see the love, but you also see the exhaustion.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And too often, they're the last ones to ask for help.
• 7:55
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• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Adam, how does Cambridge step in to support families when one parent is clearly overwhelmed caring for the other?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Martha, we see this all the time, and every time it's a delicate balance.
• 8:11
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• 8:29
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• 8:32
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• 8:35
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• 8:37
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• 8:39
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• 8:42
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• 8:53
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• 8:57
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• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's talk about once you are in these groups.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of opportunities.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we were talking about we're leading up into the holidays and New Year's.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of opportunities for kids to feel left out.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, with social media, we see pictures of groups together, and sometimes you're not included in it, and that really hurts deep for these kids.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: No question.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And for parents too.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have a post that says moms get jealous of what they see on social media too.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's true because we are so enmeshed in our children's lives, and this is just the parenting culture in which we live, which is a whole other topic.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when we see something that we didn't know about or our child was left out of, that's hurtful for us too.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that hurts us, and of course it hurts our child as well, too.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um the whole idea of inclusion, exclusion with teenagers is I can't think of a more hot button topic.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And what I work through with kids in therapy are scenarios where a child will say, Well, we were all supposed to go to Chick-fil-A after the game, but her mom's car can only hold five people.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I have heard that before.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or my parents said I could only have 10 people over.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, But her mom knows there's 12 of us in the group.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of times, what is hard for me to work with is when kids are using their parents or their mom specifically as an excuse or reason to exclude others.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that is really hard because the child knows that it's just a lie, and I know that it's just a lie.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really hard to work through that with kids because they don't want to think their friend is lying to them.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll look at me straight in the face and say, But her mom's car could only take five people.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, she drives a Yukon.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, right.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be real.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Let's what's really going on here?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: But teenagers remember, they don't want to lose their spot in the group.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: So even if they know they're being left out for something ridiculous, they oftentimes will not be honest and say, Yeah, I know her mom's car really holds seven.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: So they're holding that inside just so they can fit in with the group and maintain their status.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: That has got to cause so much anxiety, depression, all the things.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is so difficult.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So when I'm working with kids and parents too, about how to how to navigate these little nuances socially with carpools and who's allowed over and how many people can spend the night and all these little nuances.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, these big group texts and these big group snaps that they all have where they're trying to make plans is, I think is toxic.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because what happens is let's say one girl will put out an invite to the group of, let's say, 15 girls.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes she'll say, No one replied.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: It'll go silent.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: The group goes silent.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what's happening is they're all side texting their friends about do they really want to do that?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do they really want to go to her house?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is there something better?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they're jockeying for is this the best we can do for this night that she's extending this invitation.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: So then it goes silent.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And really they're all just side texting each other.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think my best bit of advice for that in these group texts where someone's really trying to get something going is you have to, small group text, you have to side text people individually rather than just throw it out to the group.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: That is a high risk because now 15 girls, if I'm extending an invitation and no one replies, but you really want to come to my event, you are not going to reply.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because now you think the other 10 girls don't think it's cool.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not going to say anything.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: You see how this works?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh, that is so interesting.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're making me reflect back on a group text I sent a few years ago, inviting a big group of women to an event, and literally no one responded.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe that was going on even at my age.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's groups within groups.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: So in a big group, there's several small groups.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So what's happening is they all receive your invite, let's say.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then the small groups are text side texting each other, like, hey, do you want to do this?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think we should do this?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Who else is going to do this?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then they decide.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then collectively, someone will say a yes.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, you see the flood of yeses because they've all collectively decided on the side that the invite is good enough.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: That is so insightful and so interesting.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go back for a minute to something that you said.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: As a parent, when you see that your kid has been left out of something, it hurts hard.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: That mama bear comes out.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I literally had a friend that I was talking to on the phone yesterday say that her daughter had called her about something, and she, the mom, completely overreacted and she felt so guilty.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Oh my gosh, I totally understand.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: I've had at least two of those moments in recent months that I just felt awful.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: How can we as parents temper that initial reaction?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: The mollow bear just comes out and sometimes it is ugly.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: How can we do better with that?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that is the million-dollar question.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: That is the million-dollar question.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because we don't want our children to hurt.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes there's such injustice in these social circles that it really burns us to the core.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the best bit of advice is the 24-hour rule, which is what sports coaches will tell you, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: After a game when you're hot about your child's whatever, it's like a 24-hour rule with children.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And when it's happening inside your house, if you feel yourself getting what we call dysregulated, that is when you have to take five.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: You literally just go into the bathroom.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: You walk into the kitchen and get a drink.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: You take the dog outside for a minute and you c you have to collect yourself because if your child, a couple things are going to happen.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: If your child sees you having a strong reaction, they're going to couple things.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, regret telling you.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, they will immediately panic and say, Don't call the mom.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do not text her.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do not call her.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or they'll say, I'm s I shouldn't have told you.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it when it's so those are those are your general responses.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: But if your child is broken, and I mean like devastated over something, I tell moms that because they say, I don't want to cry in front of her.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I say, if she cries first, you can cry.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: But you don't be the first one to cry.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's confusing to a child to think, my mom is crying.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is a really big deal, and I don't know how to handle it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because remember, they're telling us, and we're always supposed to have some sort of answers.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it's important to say, We'll fig we will figure this out together.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So in the moment if she's crying and you're getting upset, which is happens a lot, but when it's a big disappointment, like when your child is emotionally broken, you just say, We'll figure this out together.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: But if someone has done something and your child's not having a s a big reaction, but you feel yourself having a big reaction, that's when you need to take a quick lap around your house.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And just get a drink, go outside, go to the bathroom, come back, and just give it a second.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds so easy, but such great advice.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so hard.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I honestly know it's it's so difficult in these moments.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've been there.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is really tough.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's talk about the pressure of social media.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I personally blame that for everything.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's an easy thing to blame.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we didn't have that.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I tell my kids often, I wish you could have been been a teenager in the 80s, and they're like, why, mom, you didn't have the internet.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, exactly.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like it hadn't been invented yet.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't know any better.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: And life was so much better for that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: But so many parents would like to limit their kids from social media or not let them have it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: But then at the same time, that's how plans are made.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then that's another opportunity to be left out of things.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: What how do you temper that?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll tell you what the research says.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: We'll start with that and then I'll give you my real advice.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the research says social media functions like a party.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if you and I go to a a party together and you are talking to people and and you're holding a drink and you're chatting and you're working the room, you're going to leave that party thinking, that was a really good party.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: But if I'm at the same party and I stand off to the side and I'm just observing the party and I'm not really engaging with anyone, maybe I'm sitting in a chair in the corner, I'm going to leave that party and think, gosh, everyone else had fun, but I didn't think that party was very great.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly how social media functions.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the research says if you are an active user of social media, meaning you're posting, you're liking other people's things, you're commenting, you're sharing, you are actively engaged in social media.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing as if you were actively engaged in a party.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are just scrolling, what we call passive usage of social media, and that is you are just scrolling.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: The kids call it trolling, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you're just observing everyone else's posts and things, um, then you're going to leave being depressed, thinking that you are missing out on something.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's interesting.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it depends how kids are using social media.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: If they're liking and posting and commenting on friends' things, then social media for them is probably going to be a somewhat engaging scenario.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: But if they're just scrolling, then yeah, they're going to turn off their phone and be depressed or anxious or thinking that they're left out of something.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: The one thing that I hate about social media is the snap map.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: The snap map I think is the worst.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because if your child is sitting home on the weekends, all they're doing is they're looking at that map to figure out where everyone is.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they know that they are not there.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a visual reminder that you weren't included.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I hate that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: But SnapMaps for me, I wish that function or feature would be turned off.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: I just hate that.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that's the worst of it because it is really like everyone is here and you are not.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: But for the most part, if you're just scrolling and sharing photos, it's all good.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it depends on how you use it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: But for me, SnapMaps is the worst.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: That Snap Map uh reminds me of something I want to share with you and get your opinions on, you know, and it ties in with the numbers of moms saying you can only have this amount of people over.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: We did let our friend, our son, have uh some friends from his lacrosse team over one night.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: This the season had just kicked off, and there was, you know, I don't know, 10 or so people there.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because of the snap map, people saw where they were.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: And they were coming in the back to my backyard.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: And before you know it, I think we had the whole class and in my backyard.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: I believe it.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: It was extremely big.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was really loud.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: We had to ask everyone to leave because the neighbors were not liking the noise and everything.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so that moment made me kind of realize this might be why some of these moms limit the number.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't like to do that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: I like everyone to feel included, but it got unmanageable in that situation.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: You could you could have said to your boys, okay, once they're all at your house, hey guys, like how's everyone?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can you all just turn off your location on your SnapMaps?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, why didn't I think of that?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: They have that feature.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And some do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, some girls will do it when they're being exclusive.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: They will turn off their location so that people cannot see that they're together.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: However, so that's that's not great when you're excluding.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: However, as a parent who's having a small group over, you can ask the kids, hey, turn off your location.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need 200 kids in my backyard tonight.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's brilliant.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: That seems so easy.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now I I feel bad that I didn't think of that.
• 21:41
  unknown: That's okay.
• 21:42
  unknown: That's okay.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so you know, we're always talking about inclusivity and how important that is.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: We start teaching that at the schools at an early age, and yet I feel like it's still not getting through.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're still not as a whole being inclusive with everyone.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think about that?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: And why aren't we getting through to the masses on that message?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: Great question.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Great question.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: We have to remember that these kids are sort of pitted against each other with academic things and sporty things.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense that the natural progression of classroom rankings and things like that, and then sports and you know, varsity A versus varsity B or the blue team or the gold team, there's all this ordinal lineup in their life.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sense that it happens socially too.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: So adolescence is a time of life where you don't want any negative attention on yourself.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Which is why gossip is so prevalent amongst adolescents, because if you're talking about someone else, you're not talking about me.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how gossip stays alive.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Same things too, with inclusivity.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is if she's out, then we're all pointing at her and she's out, and I'm not the one that's out.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: As long as it's someone else and not me, that's fine.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Which is why we talk to girls in friend groups about being um upstand.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's someone who is going to advocate for someone who's not in the group to the group.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: That is very hard to do.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: So let me give you an example.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Halloween's coming up.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And sort of the vein of existence for October, with middle school primarily and some high school, are these group costumes.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I cannot tell you the hurt that is caused from these group costumes.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: So when we talk about inclusion, let's just like fit it in the context of these group costumes.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have a friend group that has decided they're going to be a group costume, but there are like five people in the group to the group costume.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's like two other girls that are sort of on the fringe of your friend group.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: How do you maneuver that?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say you're one of the five inside the group.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna advocate for the two who are on the fringe?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you just gonna assume that they're gonna do like a a costume that matches the two of them?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, this is what I do in therapy, by the way.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we get in the trenches of these things.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, let's say a group is going to dress up like the Wizard of Oz.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, there are set characters in that group.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say, I I don't know off the top of my head, let's say there's five in the Wizard of Oz group, but you got these two other people.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna do with them?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna have two scarecrows?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why not?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why not?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: But they these kids get in these entrenched lines of thinking, like, well, we're doing Wizard of Oz.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like we but it only takes five people.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we've already figured it out.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, good luck to the other two.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So inclusivity looks more like, you know what, let's ditch Wizard of Oz and let's all do minions.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: You can have a thousand.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's no shortage of those, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: But these kids, once they get locked in a group or costume, they have their place, right?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: So she's like, I'm the lion.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: She is just secure that she's the lion.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: She's not worried about the other two that are now gonna have to go do another costume.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea of inclusivity, honestly, the kids aren't really going, they're not going to upstand most of them are not going to do the right thing in the group.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just be honest.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: They're teenagers, as long as they have their place, they're not too worried about everyone else.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: That is their main two foot in front of them focus.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is do I have a place?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is more of a parenting issue.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Which some people are gonna disagree with me on this.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: But if your child's in the Wizard of Oz group, you need to say to your child, okay, so everyone has their cost their characters or whatever, great.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Who else who might be upset about this group?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Who else, who that you all hang out with might be upset about this Wizard of Oz costume?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then look at your child and read their face and know if they're going to say, nobody, like everybody's fine.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because a parent may not know about these other two who are on the fringe.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: So then you just really have to honestly look at your child and say, Could anyone be upset about this group that you all have created?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then you just have to read your child's face and know if he or she is giving you a line or not.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have to dig in and say, okay, well, tell me who's all in this group and have them name, okay, so-and-so's Dorothy and so-and-so's blah, blah, blah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're just gonna have to try to figure out and ask the right questions.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Don't just assume that your child's good, that that sleepover is set, that those spring break plans are set, that that costume is set.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: You really have to dig and ask questions.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because otherwise teenagers will just hurt feelings, and as long as they have a spot, they'll just sort of blow right on over it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know about you, but when my teenager started driving, I was a nervous wreck.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: So many things that could go wrong, and God forbid they get into an accident.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, we have car insurance, but for some young drivers, the monthly insurance can be higher than the car payment.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's why we're excited to announce that State Farm is lowering their car insurance rates, and you should call our good friend Kathy L.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Wall with State Farm on Lovers Lane in Dallas.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: You see, Kathy and her team don't just sell car insurance.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: They sell peace of mind.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: So if an accident happens, they're actively working on your claim so you can put that accident behind you.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And best of all, Kathy will personally talk with your teen driver with some straight talk that will help them appreciate the driving privilege you have provided them.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're tired of high rates for auto insurance, please call our good friend Kathy L Wall State Farm at 214-350-2692 or visit her website at Kathy Lwall.com and let her know, Martha from the Bubble Lounge sent you.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: So do you think it's because they're teenagers, their brain isn't fully developed, that they don't have the capacity for empathy, or they're just happy that they have their place and nothing else matters?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think most of them know what they're doing on the inside.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think yes, they have the capacity for empathy.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: But the primary function of adolescence is identity formation.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: That is just the stage of life in the psychosocial like box that they are in.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that means their primary identity is at the forefront.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very selfish stage of life.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it has to be because they're breaking up with their parents and sort of growing into adulthood.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a very fearful thing to do.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's scary.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very scary thing to do.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: So they just want to lock in on their group because that provides them their identity outside of your family.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: And they are going to sacrifice everyone else at all cost.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, occasionally you'll get a child who was will do the right thing, but the risks of that are very high.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why you don't see that too often.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that this is so fascinating.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: It it is really complex, but I think parents often dismiss adolescent problems because unless you're having a problem in English or math, everything else seems small.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Parents tend to be very laser focused on bigger things.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: So when they have social nuances like this and social issues, parents tend to skate on over it.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how can we as parents teach our kids and ourselves for that matter, uh, emotional resilience?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because at some point in time, uh you are going to be the one left out.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Your kid is going to be be the one left out.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: How do we teach them how to deal with that feeling?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great question.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's important when you're working with your child who's hurt is to whatever they're going through, frame it as temporary.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get through this weekend.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just get through this night, let's get through this season, let's get through this semester.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because when it when something's gone wrong with a child or an adolescent, they think this is the end all be all.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: And their catastrophic thinking clicks in and they're gonna think that forever and ever, amen.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to be this way.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: But as an adult and their parent, if you can just say, Let's just get through this fill in the blank, this season, this semester, this weekend, this night, whatever it is, and we will get through this together.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: A child just wants to hear that I'm not in this alone and that it's temporary.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that it's temporary.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Another bit of advice that I think is helpful when things fall apart is to have multiple points of reference for friends.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I love the kids that have school friends and then they have dance friends, and then they have camp friends, and then they have youth group friends, or they have friends at the barn, or they have their club team friends.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever I meet or I'm working with a child who has one group of friends and it's the school group and that's it, that is really high risk.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because inevitably that group is gonna crack or there'll be drama or someone will be canceled.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then if your child doesn't have this fallback group, then it can really seem like their world is falling apart.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if we can foster multiple friend groups for our children, then on a night where they've they can see on SnapMaps that everyone's at Chick-fil-A and they're at home, then you can say, Hey, why don't you call Emma or let's text Emily or see what's going on.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know that they have these other ancillary friends over here, that can really be helpful when their main group falls apart and inevitably it will have its own drama.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have all these other friends from other parts of their life, that is crucial to getting through middle school and high school.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it's so important to diversify your friends.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like I love being friends with people that are completely different than me, like artist and creative type people.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just feel like being around them and hearing what their world is like is just it it helps me be a better person and expands my knowledge about the world.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I just can't grasp this.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: We all want to be the same in this little group.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: And there's oftentimes people that have been in a friend group that are my age, they've been in the same group since high school, and and no one's getting in.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: As one of my friends always says, her friend box is full and she's not letting anyone else in.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: That just seems so limiting.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of that in Dallas, though.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there is a lot of that in Dallas.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: I see a lot of Dallas in all different school circles.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that can be hard.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of diversifying your friend group, that's that's great.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's very much an adult perspective.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: A child does not want to see that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, they cannot appreciate that at this age.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because remember, being an adolescent is they they just want to be in the group.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want any negative attention drawn to themselves.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why they all want the broncos and the Jeeps and they all wear the gold hinge skirts.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like they don't, they just want to blend in.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to stand out for the wrong reasons.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea of diversifying your friend group is great for an adult perspective, but a teenager's not going to take that risk or that leap.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can have multiple friend groups that you feel comfortable in, then that's the goal.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we do have a good amount of teens that do listen to the show.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: So let's end with talking about what a true friend looks like.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: What should you look for in somebody?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what I tell kids in therapy is you know you're sitting with a true friend.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you can be present with them when you're talking to them, if you are running a secondary conversation in your brain to yourself while you are engaging with that other person, that is not a true friend.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: So if you and I are talking and I'm sitting here thinking, oh my gosh, here she goes again.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about her, it's all about, you know, if you are talking to yourself in your head while you are trying to talk to an alleged friend, that's not a good friend.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: But if you find yourself being completely present and the only thing you're thinking about is what that person is saying, that is a true friend.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's one easy marker.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, if you leave an interaction or a dinner or lunch or whatever with someone and you feel better for it, that's probably a good friend.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: But if that person made you feel less than, or if you leave that sleepover or that dinner feeling like, oh, they thought I was stupid, like they didn't laugh at my jokes, or I shouldn't have said that, if you're second guessing that, that is a marker of not an authentic friendship.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Third, you ask yourself, does this person build me up or does this person generally tear me down?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, teenage boys are different because they use humor and sarcasm a lot.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of boys might think, well, I'm always torn down.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's just what we do.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but they they know on the inside, they know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um so those are just a few questions for kids to ask themselves, how to figure out if they're good friends.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then in therapy, the last thing is um we go through each friend in their friend group.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then I have them identify, is this person a 50-50 friend?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Meaning, or sometimes they run hot and sometimes they run cold, sometimes they'll answer you back and sometimes they won't.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: That friend goes in the 50-50 bucket.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: But if a friend always answers you, is always nice to you, always includes you, that is what I call a hundred percent friend.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: So this 50-50 bucket is gonna be pretty full.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: But the 100% bucket is just gonna have a few people in it.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's important to manage expectations that way.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: If I know I'm gonna sit by you in class and you're a 50-50 friend, I'm not gonna expect too much.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're a hundred percent friend, I know that it's gonna be great.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it helps kids identify not everyone has to be your bestie, not everyone has to be your ride or die.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's we have different categories of friends, and that's okay.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, this has been so insightful.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: I've literally been hanging on every word you're saying.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, I feel better as better equipped as a parent to deal with things going forward.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Really gonna take all of your advice to heart this time and really appreciate you being here today.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks again for having me.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how can people find you?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I post a lot of stuff on Instagram, so it's just Dr.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly Jameson, and uh my website is drkellyjamison.com.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: So happy to do therapy, but also for parents, if you just want to come in and do a 90-minute what I call parent consultation and you just come in, usually with your spouse or just a mom sometimes, and we just do um a broad layout of your family and we talk about each child and what they're struggling with, and we just do kind of an overview.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's just a one-time um meeting, so you're not really subscribing to consistent therapy, but sometimes that's fun.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you're struggling with, you know, it's a big year, if you've got a lot of kids who are tackling some big things, sometimes just a parent consultation can be helpful.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, perfect.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Martha Jackson, and I'll see you next time.