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How PTSD Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know front House Stuff Works
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Getting across from me as always is Charles W. Chuck Bryant.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And that makes this say you again, howdy, this is
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: stuff you should know. Let jump the gun there. That's okay, awkward,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I was talking a little fast. It's a little weird.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: How's it going, It's going good, good. This is a
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: long awaited podcast. It is. We've been putting this off
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: for like a year at least, maybe even two or so. Um.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: There is a guy, um who we need to give
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a huge shout out to. His name is Will Sovey.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Is that who wrote us? Initially? Yeah, initially. He is
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a clinician who studies PTSD, started out at Walter Read Hospital.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: From the hospital. Basically he's like right there on the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: front lines, not just treating, but like learning about PTSD
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and uh no, no, only do we have to thank
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Will for Basically we handed him this document, this article
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, how up to date is this? And
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: he sent back this great like annotated copy with all
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this new stuff and basically said this is don't say this,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: don't be stupid. That kind of stuff. Um, so we
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: have to thank not only Will, but we have to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: thank his wife, Meg, who was the one who originally
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: turned Will onto stuff. You should know. So without Meg,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we would have no Will, and without Will, we would
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: probably have a grossly out of date and laughable PTSD
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: article to work from that would have haunted us. We
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: probably would have released a podcast and just pissed us off.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Still exactly. Yeah, So you have now taken his information
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and redid your original article and now we are pretty
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: much up to date. Yeah, and I need to go
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: onto the site and like update the actual article, which
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: is harder than the rounds, you know, but to just
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: listen to this podcast for the time being, Okay, uh,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And this is really good timing, Chuck, because I found
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: out after we decided to do that, June is PTSD
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: awareness month. Yeah, and specifically June is PTSD Awareness Day.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So if you have a friend or a loved winn
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: or a coworker who suffers from post traumatic stress disorder,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: be extranized to him on jun So we're talking about PTSD,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: which is of course um abbreviation for post traumatic stress disorder,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and um, it's not a new disorder. I don't I
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: can't imagine like when it really first came about, although
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: it was first described in the Civil War. My guess
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: is that it came about the first time people started
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: encountering big time stresses, traumatic events. Yeah, they just didn't
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: know what the heck they call it exactly, you know. Um,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't I guess until about the Civil War
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: that we saw casualties on such a colossal level that somebody,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a doctor named Jacob Mendi's Da Costa um described what
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: he called soldier's Heart. Yeah, before that, they were just like,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with Goody Johnson? Exactly? It's just always freaking
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: out whenever, like he hears us play this song, right, well,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Goody short for good wife, So there's there's a lot
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: going on with Goody Johnson. Um that he she um,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So Da Costa is he he calls his things soldier heart,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: soldier's heart, and it basically is like you you seem
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: to have some sort of heart failures techniccardia. Um, You're
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: you're very much stressed out. And Da Costa said, this
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: is probably a result of some sort of uh trauma
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: from the war. Right, But they initially, like you said,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: thought it was cardiac based, because I'm sure dudes were like,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: you know, my heart's racing exactly, you know, I'm freaking
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: out right, it's your heart. Then it can't possibly have
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: anything to do with your mind, which we know pretty
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: much nothing about. Right. That came about during World War
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: One when it was famously called shell shock. Charles Myers
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifteen described it as and he was actually
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: onto something here that it could have been a resulting
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: from pressure from you know, artillery shells exploding nearby, and
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: how it affects the brain, like physically affected the brain, right,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: And that's actually what he's talking about. Is called today
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: mild traumatic brain injury, yeah, which is UM with the
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: symptoms of which kind of overlap with PTSD. Yeah. I
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: think we covered that in Concussion. Some didn't we I
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: think we probably did too, because you know, some NFL
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: guys are, uh, former NFL players are like committing suicide
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: now here and there. Probably the same thing that was
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: an interesting episode was in the shell shock Yeah, so yeah,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: so um, Charles Myers describes mild traumatic brain injuries and
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: calls them shell shock. So if you just go slightly
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: further afield and and um and kind of get a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: little more into the psychology behind it, you arrive finally
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: at PTSD, the modern diagnosis of which first came about
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: in nine teen eight. Yeah, thanks to UM they really
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: started doing a lot of studying post Vietnam and UH
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eight three, Uh, they did a case study
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: that really just like opened up a wealth of information
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to kind of get the ball rolling. And since then
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: we studied a lot, and we continue to because we're
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: still not exactly sure the best way to treat it. Uh.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And we've learned many many things since nineteen eighty about it, like, oh, well,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: there's the part of the brain that stores memories of
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: fearful incidents. I think that's a venturo medial prefrontal cortex.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: The size of that can have an effect on whether
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: or not you're at risk for PTSD. Some folks are
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: more prone than others. Uh. We'll get to all this
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and more detail, of course, UM, Like women may not
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: get out as much then as men. Uh, how how
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: much danger you perceived yourself to be in, how intense
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the danger was, how long the danger went on for
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: All of those are contributing factor to the development of PTSD. Yeah,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and it's and like you said, perception is the key
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: because it's your perceived reaction to it. It's not necessarily
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the guy next to you might not have had any reaction,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you know, and gone through the same incident. Maybe two
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: people are in the same car accident, one person can
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: have that one person might not right, and it can
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: be that can be exclusively based on the perception of
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the event. Yeah, um, you were saying, we're still learning
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: about it. It's true. We don't have even numbers on
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the number of people with PTSD. That's shocking. I think
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the v Yeah, I think the v A estimated UM
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: as many as eight hundred thousand veterans alone have PTSD. Well,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I think. I say it's shocking, but it is. It
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: can also be confused with things like depression and just
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: generalized anxiety, So it's very specific PTSD, So I sort
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of get that right. But it has a huge effect
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: on people like depression and anxiety disorders in general. Do UM.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: PTSD specifically is known to um increase unemployment, failed marriages,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: domestic violence, and homelessness. In suicion, Yeah, suicide is a
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: big one too. Um, we have no idea how many
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: PTSD suffers commit suicide. But in two ten, I believe
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Chuck UM twenty two veterans a day active and UM
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: former military a day twenty two we're committing suicide. And
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I believe to two thousand ten not all of those
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: are necessarily PTSD related. But once we have a better
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: idea of how many people have PTSD, how many people
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: who have PTSD commit suicide, I have a feeling the
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: numbers are just gonna get bigger and bigger. I think
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you're right, because we're still I mean, we're only like
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a few generations removed from the concept of shell shock,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you know, and then even more from soldier's heart and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: even more from what's wrong with Diddy Johnson were in
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the lake swims? Okay, so I guess let's get on
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the brass tacks. UM. Simply defined, it is a set
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: of symptoms that result from a trauma. UM. We hear
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: about a lot in military, obviously because they experience very
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: intense trauma more than most folks do. But it can
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: come about from accident, an assault, UM, natural disaster, anything
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: that you perceive as traumatic. It can come about. Yeah,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: it can. It can the death of a loved one.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: It doesn't even necessarily have to be ama a trauma
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: that happens directly to you. It can indirectly affect you,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and you can still develop PTSD from it. Um. But
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the thing is that there's uh, if if somebody experiences
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a trauma, I'm not going to develop PTSD. They normally
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: shake it off. Right. There's actually some some criteria for
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: an actual PTSD diagnosis. UM, So you have to the
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: symptoms basically have to present themselves over a certain period
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: of time for certain length of time, and certain symptoms
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: have to appear in the cornerstone of what's called the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: symptom cluster of PTSD. All the symptoms you put together
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: to form a diagnosis. The cornerstone of those is re experience. Yeah,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: and some of that can happen. But the thing I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: kept coming across in these studies is what they called
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: excessive retrieval. So just like you know, it's one thing
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to get an accident and be a little weird next
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: time you drive in the rain, or more careful or whatever,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: but excessive retrieval means that it's like consuming your life. Nightmares,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: day terrors, I mean, you name it, like a song
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: can spark it and you're just re experienced this thing
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: over and over in your mind. Yeah, And it doesn't
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: even necessarily have to be from something like a song
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: like the song that was playing on the radio when
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: your car you crashed your car um to trigger. It
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: can just come without any apparent trigger whatsoever. And the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: big problem with this is not just like, oh man,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: that was such a bummer that that happened to me.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It's your brain is remembering this in such a way
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: that the the same chemical cascade takes place as it
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: did when you were initially going through it. So for
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, at that moment, you're fully going
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: through that same experience again. And this happens again and
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: again and again and again. And that's the re experience
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: of the trauma. And that's the cornerstone symptom of PTSD. Yeah,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that's what of UH, one of what they call symptom clusters,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: one of four. The other three are avoidance, which is
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: obviously speaks for itself. You're gonna avoid thinking about it.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Avoid you know, let's say you're in the military, might
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: not go to Fourth of July celebrations or other places
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: where they're big booms, um, numbness um. Doing anything you
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: can to numb it withdrawing alcohol and drugs. Yeah, that
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: can be a big problem with PTSD, going into it
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and afterward, right right, And if you already had a
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Drugger alcohol problem and you you develop PTSD, that can
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: be a really hard thing to treat and separate. And
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the last one there is hyper arousal, which basically UM,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: when you see movies, they'll portray this way movies A
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: lot is a soldier that's just jumpy and irritable and
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I can't sleep. They feel unsafe, sort of paranoid, always
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: on guard. It's like your fight or flight response is
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: always on and it's gonna be exhausting. Yeah. Well, we
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: talked about like you can die from that kind of thing,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: from prolonged stress, heightened stress, like it depletes your immune system,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: and um, you can die as a result. And that's
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: one of the hallmarks of PTSD is you're just constantly
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: on guard. Yeah. Yeah, I can't imagine how tired you
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: must be. Plus you can't sleep on top of that, exactly. Yeah,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: So it's a pretty awful condition to to have. UM.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And uh, one of the one of the criteria for
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: diagnosing this is that it's it's not short this can
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: go on a very long time. Um, there's three three
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: different types. There's acute, which is um acute PTSD the
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: symptoms come on uh and last about three months, right, Yeah,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: it has to to be PFC. It has to go
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: beyond the one month period right after that. It's kind
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: of most people, I guess shake off a trauma within
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: a within a month. Yeah, if it keeps going on
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: after that, then you're in PTSD territory. If at lasts
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: three months, that was a cute PTSD, and you probably
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: should consider yourself lucky that that's all it was. Yeah,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: that's true. You could also develop chronic PTSD UM where
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the symptoms last more than three months and possibly a lifetime. UM.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And then there's delayed onset where the symptoms don't show
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: up for at least six months. And then I guess
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: it could be acute delayed on set or chronic delayed
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: on set. Yeah. And you point out here that kids
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: can get it too. It's not you know, we talk
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: about adults oftentimes, but uh, kids can present differently. Um.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: You know, really poor behavior, really needy behavior, drawing things out.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And that's something you always see in movies too, Like
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: the kid drawing the plane car right and stuff like um,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: or acting it out with dolls. That's another one too.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: But as they grow up, they become a little more
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: just regular adult symptoms if they haven't you know, gotten
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: over by then, which is super sad. Yeah. So for
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: a very long time, Chuck researchers thought that everyone is
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: at equal risk of developing PTSD after going through trauma.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: But they found, UM, I guess from studying really hardcore
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: since that Vietnam study, UM that there's actually risk factors
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and protective factors that can keep people from developing PTSD
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: or can make you more likely to develop PTSD. Yeah.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: One of the big ones is, um, if you've already
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: experienced a prior trauma, Yeah, because um, it's additive. So
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: it can actually mount up these things over the years,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: and then there could be one final trauma that finally
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: triggers the PTSD. And you're more likely too if you've
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: experienced these things exactly. And you were saying, like, the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: military's at greater risk than the average person because there
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: they are experienced a prolonged, intense trauma, and um, it
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: seems to me that PTSD is moving very quickly toward
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: it almost entirely brain based model UM. And one of
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the reasons why is it finding like all these chemicals
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and and UM genetic markers that are responsible for different aspects,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and it's like this clear pictures emerging. One of the
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: big ones is a gluco corticoid. Yeah, that's right, I
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: got it. It's a class of brain hormones and they
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: help control our stress response. So we were talking about
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: how UM, if you experience one trauma, you you're gluco
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: corticoid UM levels are depleted, because it's like, come on,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: let's just hang in there. We'll hang in there if
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: you get another. If you experience another trauma and those
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: hormones are depleted already, then you're going to experience the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: fear and stress of that far more acutely then you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: would have had your glucocorticoid levels been normal. Yeah, that's
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: why it's compounding and additive. Well, and they also have
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: found that UM cortisol, which is a glucocorticoid, Elevated levels
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: of this can affect your memory in a negative way,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: which can be positive if you have PTSD. So they
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: did a study in two thousand eight three month blind
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: double blind placebo controlled study, our favorite kind that sounds
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: like a real deal, where they gave these three soldiers
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: low low doses of cortisol or hydrocortisone, and um, they
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: found significant effects with no side effects and even evidence
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: of prolonged effect. So, um, I know later on in
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the article you talk about one of the things they're
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: doing now is injecting people with hydrocortisone and like the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: er Yeah, like immediately after an event, and it's it's
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: basically shown to decrease your memory, like you just don't
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: remember that stuff as well. Yeah, and it lowers the
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: stress response. I mean think about this, you're you're the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: stress response is part of your immune system right where
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: it's at least connected in some really close way. Hydrocortizone
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: is like an anti dampens your immune response, So they
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: think that PTSD is like maybe a heightened stress response
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: or a heightened immune system response, and just giving somebody
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: like a regular shot of hydrocortizone, it's it's working. Yeah,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it's so weird. Well, because as to do with memory,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're decreasing your ability to remember something,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: you're going to increase the likelihood that you won't suffer
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: from bad memories, you know. Um, so some other risk
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: factors and protective factors. Uh, like what type of personality
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you have factors? And this makes sense. If you're an
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: optimistic type, you're probably going to be less likely to
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: suffer PTSD. Yeah, you haven't here belief that there's order
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to the umerg Does that is that specific to like
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: a belief in God. I think that that's one of
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the accepted definitions of optimism or the optimistic personality. It's
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: interesting somebody who believes, yeah, not that it's not chaotic,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: that there's reasons for things. Things happen for a reason.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: So I wonder if an atheist is more likely to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: get PTSD. I could see that interesting. Um, But it's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: also that other people are generally good is another It's
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: like the second part of that definition. Uh, if you
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: are someone who tackles things head on and don't put
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: your problems on the back burners, obviously this is gonna wait.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: If you're not putting it on the backburner, that means
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: you're going to have a less likelihood. Yeah, I got
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: all confused there. Yeah, because avoidance is one of the deal.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: And if you have problem avoidance behavior avoidance behavior UM,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: or you just like don't like to talk about problems
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: or don't like to think about things, You just rather
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: just kind of push it. It's probably true for any
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: mental disorder. If you're not prone to tackle it head on,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: then it's just gonna get worse. Yeah, you know, yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: well that's one of the things about PTSD is like
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: your memories become exaggerated and bloated and way worse even
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: than the actual experience. If you are college graduate or
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: maybe even just went to college, then um, you're gonna
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: be less likely to have it. And we also pointed
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: out earlier that women are less likely to experience it
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: than men. Yeah, they're not entirely certain why. I don't know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: but that's strictly from the Vietnam study. I think, um,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it was something like thirty six percent of Vietnam veterans
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: who experienced hardcore combat. I don't know if that's the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: term that you use, but you know what, I'm sorry
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to work combat. Yeah, thirty six percent of males in
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that situation had PTSD and eighteen percent of females did.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: So what that's like twice as likely if you're male,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: then a female UM. They think genes may have something
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: to do with it. They're looking to a gene called
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: the serotonin transporter gene. And there is a paper out
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: there that indicates that if you have a mutated gene
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: serotonin transporter gene, than it could impact your attention to
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: environmental threats, which could impact whether or not you get
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: PSD PTSD. Geez. So you remember we did that episode
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Can my grandfather's diet shortened my life? About epigenetics? Well,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: epigenetics possibly factor into UM PTSD as well. So epigenetics
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: is basically where the function of a gene is um
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: affected within somebody's lifetime changes basically right, So it's like
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: evolution on the basis of years rather than you know,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: generations and generations UM. And there was a study in
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Detroit of a hundred people who fit the criteria for
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: PTSD diagnoses, and they found that they had six or
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: seven times the epigenetic changes of the control group, and
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that a lot of those epigenetic changes, most of them
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: UM had to do with genes that that were responsible
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: for keeping up the immune system. Interesting, did they factor
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: in the fact that they've lived in Detroit? Well, that
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: was funny. I guess, in some horribly dark comic goal
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: way is that the researchers were from New York City
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: and they traveled to Detroit to find a hundred people
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: with PTSD. I'm sure they could have found that New York.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I guess they cast their lot in Detroit for some reason.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: We love Detroit. By the way, We've been getting a
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: lot more emails lately because I think people pick up
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: newly and hear us dashing Detroit and they don't realize
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it's been a running joke now for five years, as
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: almost six years. We love Detroit. Who doesn't exactly um.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, the most important factor with this
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: or any other mental disorder is what they called a
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: trauma membrane, which is that support network your friends and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: your family if you've got a strong one, and it's
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: a strong one in the right way. Like you point out,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: they can be well meaning, but the person receiving that
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: membrane and that protection it has to do do right
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: by them. Yeah, and then they can't just be like, well,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you know, just just on the bright side, you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: don't worry about that. Like, however, you're you're experiencing this
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and getting over it. You're doing it wrong. Do it
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: this way. That's not gonna help, right. But basically the
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: point is if you are single alcoholic veteran that is
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: a loner living by yourself, it doesn't like to think
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: about your problem. Yeah, and like your tiny little apartment.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Then that's like the worst case scenario for PTSD. Yes. Yeah,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Like we said, the military is at a greater UM
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: risk just from being exposed to these situations and being
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: exposed to him over and over and over again. UM.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And but one of the other reasons that the military,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: especially the military of late UM is at risk is
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: be because brain injuries where the quote signature wound of
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the Iraq War I don't remember thanks to UM roadside
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: bombs I e. D. S UM, there are a significant
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: amount of head injuries. Are treatment of head injuries advanced
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: enough so that we could save lives where they wouldn't
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: have been before, Like people were exposed to head injuries
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: like in countless other wars. But now we've gotten to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the point where we can save those people's lives. The
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: problem is that their brains are changed. They've undergone what
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Charles Myers called shell shock mild traumatic brain injury, which
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: again is almost indistinguishable and possibly one and the same
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: in some cases as PTSD. Yeah, and imagine the uncertainty
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: of guerrilla warfare and things like roadside bombs. Um, Like,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you can be prepped somewhat for for battle and we'll
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: get to that here in a little bit. What they're
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: trying to do the more and more of these days
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: with that, but with these guerrilla tactics that are going
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: on in the Middle East, with with suicide bombers and
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: car bombs and things like that, it's like kind of
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the perfect prescription for eventual ps PTSD. Yeah. I'm trying
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: to trick to take the trauma out of it. Yeah.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, we mentioned earlier, remember the optimistic personalities less
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: likely in the optimist believes in order in the universe. Well,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: guerrilla warfare is like the opposite of order in the universe.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Are you starting to see like this pattern, Like all
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this stuff is on the table. Yeah, it's just now
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: a matter of connecting it. And it seems like neurology
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: is going to be the field that does that, I think, so,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you know, so counseling obviously is step one. Um, and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: this goes down in a couple of ways. The old
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: favorite cognitive behavioral counseling, which we talked about quite a bit,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: which apparently I'm told by will Savey is not really
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: called that. It's cognitive processing therapy. I think he said,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I haven't really I've seen it call that, but okay
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: in his note, so we'll stick with the cognitive processing therapy. Well.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: A couple of the aims there um are to basically
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: limit the amount of that excessive retrieval to sometimes it's like, hey, um,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: every day for like from from nine to nine thirty,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: you can think about this in a healthier way and
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: then you put it away for the day. So that's
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: one way they can do it. Yeah. Another way is
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to just lessen the um, lessen the memories impact on
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: like how bad it was, maybe by pointing out some
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: of the good things, like what about the valorie you
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: showed during battle right by saving your buddy's life. He
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: died and you watched him die, but you also tried
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to drag him his safety. So you tried, and that
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: you put yourself at risk and you really need to
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: commend yourself for that. Like carry that around too, it's
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: gonna balance out the horrible nous. So not like you
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: need to forget all this, but you need to bring
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: it back to an acceptable level where you can live
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: your life exactly. And one of the reasons are one
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of the reasons it's not an unacceptable levels because this
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: memory has become so grossly exaggerated through the process of
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: this um this I guess memory retrieval, fearful memory retrieval,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: over and over and over again. Like I think most
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: memories are enhanced or bad, you know, like you remember
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: like that prom in high school is way better than
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: it really was, or that breakup that you suffered was
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: really actually those usually get better with time. But you
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, right, Yeah, But I think, Chuck,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: imagine that while you were see when whenever you retrieve
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: a memory, you're adding to it. That's how like sense
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: go from you know what you initially thought of, what
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: you know ten years after smelling the thing, you think
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: of the same thing with fearful memory retrieval. But when
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: your memory is being retrieved and your life is in
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the gutter and you're addicted to drugs and you're scared
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: out of your mind, and then you compound that under
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the original memory over and over again, then it's just
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: gonna get worse and worse and more and more exaggerated.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: And yeah, one of the one of the or the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: point of cognitive processing therapy is cognitive restructuring, like literally
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: reordering the brain by taking that memory head on and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: saying no, no, no, like this didn't really happen like this,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: and you're not paying enough attention to that, right. Another
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: type of therapy that is not is fun, although I
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: don't know if the other is actually fun, but exposure
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: therapy it's pretty hardcore. It's like to pull your knees
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: up to your chest and just rock back and forth
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: kind of therapy. Yeah. I mean it's basically to relive
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: it over and over and over um in great detail,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: sometimes taking you to the actual place that it took place, um,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: with the idea that eventually that fear extinction will happen
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: and you'll get over it. Right. Well, remember you were saying, like, um,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the song that was playing on the radio when when
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you got in a car, right, they'd like to play that. Well,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: welcome to hearing that song over and over and over again.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: It doesn't again, when you're retrieving that memory in a
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: certain context and bad things aren't happening, and there's somebody
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: reassuring you saying like, look, you're okay, Like everything's okay.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Then you're relearning that memory again without the fear associated
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: with it, but you have to go through hell to
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: get there. Yeah, And it also stops avoidance in its tracks,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: which is you know, if you if you're avoiding something.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: The complete opposite of that is immersion therapy like that.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And then what they're finding is the best the best
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: results they are coming from a combination of therapy UH
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and medication of course, because it helps to not be
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: freaked out of your mind when you're having to go
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: through exposure therapy and removing it. And a class of
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: drugs that helps with that. Our SSR eyes, our old
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: friend SSR eyes UM the two approved by the h
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: U S Food and Drug Administration or Zoloft and Paxel,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: and those are actually the only two drugs approved by
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the FDA to treat PTSD on label, not just the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: only two SSR eyes, so use those with your therapy. UH.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: They also have something called d clike co serine and
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: UM that is actually is that the one that's a
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: anti tuberculosis drug, and they found that it also helps
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: with PTSD. Yeah, they they noticed that, like it UM
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: cut down on fear by basically it agonizes your N
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: methyl d aspirtit receptors in m d A. Yes, now,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: the and that enhances learning. So if you're going through
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: exposure therapy, you got a little um zolof going to
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: keep you calm and chilled out and able to go
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: through therapy, and you're taking dcs at the same time
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: to make you learn faster. UM, then that would probably
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: be a a good treatment for PTSD for some people. Yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Beta blockers like uh, prop pen and all that's have
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: been long known to decrease stress levels. Yeah, and kill
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson really is that what he was on? That
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: was the one his milk he called it. Oh he
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: had like the drip going yeah, yeah, I think that's
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: a little different than like described the pill. But this
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: is this UM. This drug specifically goes in there and
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: basically like m disconnects neurons so that there you don't
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: have that memory any longer. I read a paper once
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: on im using this drug to treat PTSD, and like
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: this guy was like, this is so effective that you're
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: basically rewriting history. It's like transhuman. It's it has like
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: that level of impact on some people. Interesting. Well, we
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier the Army UM preparing soldiers for battle. Uh,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: it is not just happening in a physical training way,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: like learn how to shoot guns and do things like that.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Now it's happening very much on the mental level. Uh.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: It was formerly called battle mind anymore, so that that
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: surprised me that they changed it. When was it from?
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: That was from Walter Reed Hospital too? Yeah, exactly. Now
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: they call it resilience training. That's way better exactly, and
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: it it actually didn't even start out as something to
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: help with PTSD, but they're learning that it can help. UM.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It's basically this, they handle the seven phases of deployment mentally.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: They prepare you mentally for the seven phases like predeployment, deployment,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: post deployment, redeployment, UM and everything from Hey, when you're
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: out of the Army or the Marine Corps and you're
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: driving your car around, you can't drive like you're angry
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and like you were over there. If someone addresses you
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: in an aggressive manner, you can't handle it like you
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: did when you were in battle. Um, you didn't have
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: alcohol over there. Now you're back home, there's booze everywhere.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: You can't go crazy with that stuff. And so all
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: of that put together they figured out ends up helping
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: out UM with PTSD, like rely on your family, they're
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: trying to encourage stuff like this, right. Well, also they
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: think it works because they're using it ahead of time,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: like predeployment as part of training as well. So I
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: think like being exposed to horrors ahead of time, we'll
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: kind of keep you from going through I guess as
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: much of a trauma when you see it the real
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: thing a month later. Whatever. Yeah, what's interesting, Chuck, is
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the Iroquois um had something like this. Yeah, after like
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: going and going to war, they were basically sequestered from
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: everybody else after they came back and we're assimilated. Yeah, exactly,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: there's like a step down cooling period. Wow that the
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Iroquois used because they would go totally insane while they
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: were in battle. Right, that makes sense where they won't
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: go berserk, know, the Vikings want berserker. Yeah, but I
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: think I think that you're equid took. Okay, So we're
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: talking about neurology being the key to this one chemical
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that they have been studying is called Staffman Jason Staffman,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and that basically allows us to form fear memories from
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: our experience. So they're obviously working with this and mice
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: finding that lower levels of that are gonna decrease our
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: fear memories or our ability to form them at least.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: So that's pretty you know, they're viding us on a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: lot of fronts. Yeah, well, they're doing a lot of
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: research and you just need to put it together. What
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: else gastrin releasing peptide. Yes, they found that. Um. Apparently
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: this this chemical like signals the brain like calm down,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: calm down, and um, if you have uh not enough
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: of it, you have an increased chance that you're going
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: to become fearful. Right. Um, so that's another one, uh
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: narrow peptide. Why we what do we talk about that in?
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I we definitely talked about it. It's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: it's basically our own bodies anti anxiety drug and um.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: The levels of this are going to fluctuate depending on
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: what kind of stresses and traumas we've been through. And
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: once again, if that one's depleted, UM, then you're gonna
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: be less prone to overcome obstacles. Mentally. Yeah, they're actually
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out how to synthesize it. So
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: if it's as simple as like injecting some narrow peptide
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: wine into somebody's brain following a trauma, just to get
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: that a little extra boost, so you can, you know,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: take this on and process it and shake it off.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I guess ecstasy. That's another one. M d N A,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: m d M A. Uh. Not surprisingly when they have
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: treated people with PTSD, they felt better. Yeah, but it
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: was long lasting though, right? Was that the mushrooms? I
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: know we studied h that hallucogen mushrooms. Yeah, I don't
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: remember which one went back more more easily. Yeah, I
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: can't remember either. But there was a guy in that study,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: the m d M A study who was like suicidal
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: for three years or two years. Oh no, that was
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: something different. The stelic Ganglian block. It's like in an
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: inoculation of just a local anesthetic, right, but just above
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the clavical so it interrupts the the nerve transmissions of
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: your sympathetic nervous system, the fight or flight response. Yeah,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: so it physically blocks it. Yeah, and it works apparently,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: and it can last. There was one guy in that
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: study who was suicidal for um two years, and he
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: felt immediate relief. Yeah, the ecstasy. I think you said
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: that some people that experienced relief had never experienced relief
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: with therapy or any other drugs. So it's pretty interesting.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: And then our old friend, the thinking cap, the transcranial
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: magnetic stimulator. UM. I don't know if that's what they
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: call it, is it? Yeah? Okay, Um, it's better than
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: a thinking cap. Yeah, that's true. They did a study
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: in two thousand four or twenty four male and female
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: patients suffering from PTSD and UM, they hooked up, you know,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the magnets to the head, stimulated blood flow to the brain,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: and they found out that it had a nice effect
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: for the for the people. Yeah. Yeah, they think it
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: increased metabolism or something like that. Man, I think it's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a complicated thing, so it takes a complicated cure, you know,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: because it's not just like, well it's this one thing.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: It's like all over the brain and its emotions and
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: it's like fear and memory. It's just it's crazy, well yeah,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: crazy and undo a memory the way that somebody formed it. Yeah,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting stuff. So thank you very much to
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Will Sovey for his help on that. And remember it's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: PTSD awareness month, so we hope we've made you a
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: little more aware. Um and uh yeah, I'm very interested
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: to see how the research pans out. Yeah, me too.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: It's SEMs like they made a lot of headway in
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: recent years. Um. If you want to learn more about PTSD,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: you can go type those letters into the search bart
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: house to first dot com. It'll bring up the old
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: version of the article, but I'll work to get it updated. Okay, okay.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And since I said updated, it means it's time for
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: is it time for message break? Oh yeah, now listening man, Yes, okay, uh,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: this is I'm gonna do a couple of DND emails
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: over the next a couple of weeks because we did
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: a podcast and Dungeon and Dragons. Boy, people loved it.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: They did. That was a good one. Good feedback even
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: uh like the uber nerds were like, you guys did
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: a great job. Yeah, there are a couple who are
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: just like us, but for the most part, people liked it. Well.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: This is from Christina and she was very nice. She
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: is from Cleveland. And that is Christina with a K
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and Y and she says, guys, I love your show.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I'm Christina from Cleveland. I'm writing about the recent D
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: and D podcast because it reminded me of something that
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: happened recently. Both of my parents are huge nerds and
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: as a result had awesome nerd gaming daughters that as
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: me and my sister. Of course, Anyway, when they were dating,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: my mom and my dad and my dad's four best friends,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: my uncle's Bill, Larry, Calvin, and Carlton would get together
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: on weekends lay D and D all weekend long. Recently,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: when Uncle Carlton was in town, he brought his old
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: reel to real taper quarter player and a bunch of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: recordings of their D and D weekend sessions from the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: mid eighties. That's awesome. It's like Brian posing now. Uh.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: It was a hilarious trip in the time machine and
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: every session had its own unique quavor. Anytime they were
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: at Carlton's house, you'd hear jazz playing in the background,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: for example, and they always say Larry was a god
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: among men as dungeon master. It was a ton of
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: fun listening to my young dad and his buddies and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: their girlfriends and wives, joking, drinking, even a little toking
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: ha ha, oh my god and talking crap to each
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: other while they played the one story that they always
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: tell us when Carlton brought a friend who was new
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: to the group and loaned him a super awesome leveled
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: up acts since he knew he didn't have anything good
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: starting out. When the friend wouldn't return it, Uncle Carlton
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: killed his buddy's character, got his ax back, and they
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: continued on. Thanks for everything, Christina, that's pretty awesome. That's
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: a great dnd SOT. I would love to hear those takes.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Thanks Christina. Yeah. Really, Um, you know Brian Poston is
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: doing this this podcast, uh where he plays Dungeons and
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Dragons with some friends and they just recorded same things.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: He releases it as a podcast. I'll have to hear that. Yeah,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I love that, guys. Um. Well, if you want to
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: tell us a great story about your parents, we love
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: to hear those. Um. You can tweet to us at
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: s Y s K podcast. You can join us on
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash stuff you should know. UH. You
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: can send us some email to Stuff podcast at the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Discovery dot com. UH. And by the way, thanks for
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: the letter, Steama. I forgot to say that uh, And
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: as always, you can join us at our home on
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com for more
• 39:14
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