Latest / Being Different Together / #24 - Intentionality, Part 9: Life is a Joke – Either You Get It or You Don’t

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#24 - Intentionality, Part 9: Life is a Joke – Either You Get It or You Don’t · Being Different Together

• 0:08
  Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.
• 0:17
  I'm Dr.
• 0:18
  Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
• 0:22
  And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
• 0:29
  Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
• 0:37
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  Just waiting for the clap.
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  That's what I spend my time doing.
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  Sitting around waiting for the clap.
• 1:00
  Is that how we're gonna start this episode?
• 1:02
  Waiting for the clap.
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  Waiting for the clap.
• 1:05
  Um wait for the clap.
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  Wait, waiting for the clap.
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  Yep.
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  All right, everybody.
• 1:10
  Welcome to Being Different.
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  Together.
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  And I'm here with my lovely wife.
• 1:17
  I'm here with my lovely wife.
• 1:19
  Ah, what a coincidence.
• 1:23
  Oh my god.
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  And we are here.
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  Um is this number eight?
• 1:28
  I think it's episode number 24.
• 1:31
  Wow.
• 1:31
  That means we are almost one episode away from being halfway to our goal.
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  My goal.
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  Our goal of the year.
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  Yeah, it's to publish 50 podcast episodes.
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  Which is good.
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  Right on time.
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  Yep.
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  Keep it going.
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  Yeah, and please listeners.
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  If you subscribe, it really helps the podcast.
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  Totally.
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  So, you know, I think our data indicates that it's like 33% of people who listen are subscribers.
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  So um if you subscribe, it's really a favor.
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  It's a favor to our family.
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  And we appreciate it.
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  It is.
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  It's a really you know, I just want to say when you do that, uh, you know, it pushes us out further so that we can get more followers, which helps us keep the podcast going.
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  That's we're bringing you the best content that we can.
• 2:26
  We've been thinking about it, you know.
• 2:27
  Last night we were laying in bed, we were talking about the slogans for today because we're continuing in our series on intentionality, right?
• 2:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:34
  And um and if you're new, just if you need to get caught up, you want to go back, look at the show notes, go back to the first episode on intentionality, and you'll get the the uh background to what we're doing.
• 2:46
  Yeah.
• 2:47
  What's what's your you know, I'd like to check in with you through this series about your uh your kind of feeling about intentionality in general.
• 2:54
  You know, what's your sense of the word, what it what it means for you, what's what it's evolving into.
• 2:58
  I'll tell you what I love.
• 2:59
  Because I think you and I are making kind of like a couple's practice out of this deep dive.
• 3:04
  Which I just cracked.
• 3:06
  Well, I just realized that as I'm sort of sitting here thinking about it and you know, I was thinking that we're we're talking, we're using these subject, these slogans as a jumping off place for the podcast, but then we've been talking about them too, and I think that they've kind of woven themselves in a more conscious way into the way that we're coping with challenges as a couple.
• 3:28
  Like we've been going through various things that have been kind of challenging lately.
• 3:33
  You know, we've had some unexpected losses, we've got some turnout, we got some stuff going on with the you know, the this um our house is under construction, which is a huge huge thing to be going through.
• 3:42
  I think when it's all said and done, we do an episode on that.
• 3:45
  Yeah, well, I mean, and this thing about like sort of take the hard things easy is one that we've got to do.
• 3:49
  That is the one that we I think I said that to you yesterday in context of in reference to something.
• 3:55
  Yeah.
• 3:55
  And I think this like thing in our relationship where we we we have some personal jokes, some personal slogans, some things that we, you know, it's one of the ways that we're there for each other, right?
• 4:05
  So that's been really cool.
• 4:06
  And I'm as I've been writing about intentionality more and thinking about it more, I've been thinking about, you know, how the process, how the this this this thing that that Uncle Murray did where Murray Lansman, my by a professor, right?
• 4:17
  We call him Uncle Murray.
• 4:19
  This thing that Uncle Murray did where he developed where he came up with these slogans, I don't know if he did it on purpose or if it was based on the Lozong teachings of the the Tibetan uh tradition.
• 4:30
  Was he Buddhist?
• 4:31
  I don't think he was.
• 4:32
  I don't know what kind of thing.
• 4:33
  Are you saying overlap?
• 4:35
  Yeah, oh there's definitely an overlap.
• 4:36
  Yeah, there's definitely an overlap into the Lozong trainings because the Lozong trainings are seven points that are broken down and they're all in slogan, and then the way that they're taught about and learned about is through commentary about those slogans.
• 4:49
  Um but they're specifically not really direct.
• 4:52
  And um anyway, I don't want to get off on a on a tangent about the Lozhen.
• 4:55
  I could talk about that forever because I'm really into studying it this year.
• 4:58
  So I there's there is an overlap though between the idea in meditative traditions about taking something that's a simple sentence and folding it into the mind and then allowing that to cook.
• 5:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:13
  And do you do you know this?
• 5:15
  Uh there's this great song that's like Everybody cook, cook, cook, cook, cook, cook, cook.
• 5:24
  It's I'm gonna link it.
• 5:27
  Um I can't I can't remember.
• 5:29
  It's it's it's a it's a it's a very like I think it was like 2022 or something like that.
• 5:34
  Sophie Tucker.
• 5:36
  No, none of this from the EDM, sorry.
• 5:39
  Anyway, it's everybody cook.
• 5:41
  Cook, cook, cook, cook, cook.
• 5:44
  And then there's like a little dance that goes along with it where you like you swirl your your your wrist in the air like you're s you're you're like stern up a pocket.
• 5:50
  Yeah, cook, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:51
  Cook.
• 5:52
  Anyway, I think about that.
• 5:53
  Like when I sit down on the mat, like working with a quan K-O-N is like a some some kind of mind-bending, absurd story or riddle that does point to something really important, but it doesn't it's kind of like a joke.
• 6:08
  But not like directly.
• 6:09
  Yeah, because it's like, I mean, what makes a joke a joke?
• 6:11
  Like, what's your understanding about what makes it a joke?
• 6:14
  You gotta give me these questions ahead of time so I can.
• 6:16
  I'm just talking about it.
• 6:18
  I'm just literally like examperania.
• 6:23
  Oh shit.
• 6:24
  I didn't get it.
• 6:26
  Tell it again, and let me see if I can I just said you gotta tell me these questions ahead of time so I have time to think about them.
• 6:33
  Oh man.
• 6:36
  It's funny now.
• 6:40
  Oh my goodness.
• 6:43
  Okay, well, I feel like you've asked me a couple different questions.
• 6:46
  Yeah, like what's your idea about intentionality?
• 6:48
  One of the slogans today references a joke.
• 6:50
  Um yeah.
• 6:52
  Any any of that.
• 6:53
  These are just my my opening reflections for the morning.
• 6:56
  You know what I'm loving?
• 6:57
  You know, I'm caffeinated, I've had some toast, we've had a walk.
• 7:00
  Yeah.
• 7:01
  Uh I had a I had a download.
• 7:03
  You had a download.
• 7:04
  I had an opening rant.
• 7:05
  It's it's great.
• 7:06
  I had it.
• 7:07
  I had the opening rant rant a lot.
• 7:08
  It's not a monologue with Kelly.
• 7:09
  It's a rant.
• 7:10
  It's a monologue.
• 7:12
  That is very true.
• 7:16
  I will attest to that.
• 7:20
  Um I'm a passion, I'm passionate.
• 7:23
  I know, I love that about you.
• 7:26
  Sometimes I don't like it so much.
• 7:27
  Well, you know, everything guts it's both sides.
• 7:31
  Yeah.
• 7:32
  So this is what I'm loving right now.
• 7:34
  Sweating over here.
• 7:35
  Okay.
• 7:37
  What I'm loving about intentionality is my clients coming in and saying these sayings back to me.
• 7:44
  Oh, that's so satisfying.
• 7:45
  That I am just uh loving that.
• 7:49
  There was somebody on my table this week that is convinced that they know Murray.
• 7:56
  Oh, personally, you know, that like this.
• 7:58
  I think that they have heard of this guy before.
• 8:00
  Yeah.
• 8:00
  And um, I'd think probably not, but what that means to me is like he he he's him and his wisdom are is becoming more alive.
• 8:10
  Yeah.
• 8:11
  For sure.
• 8:12
  For sure.
• 8:12
  To people that had never heard of him, right?
• 8:16
  Like so I mean I don't know.
• 8:19
  And then it's like the intentionality in the intentionality class, you know?
• 8:24
  Like, like, did part of him think, you know how I want to show up?
• 8:28
  I want to teach a class that's gonna last decades in the minds and hearts of my students.
• 8:35
  Yeah, and you know, he wrote it in the sand.
• 8:37
  These things were these things were not published anywhere.
• 8:40
  Right.
• 8:41
  And um, so they really do fall into this category of like it it does remind me a lot of some of the Buddhist teachings.
• 8:48
  Well, it's like the hidden gospel.
• 8:50
  It's the hidden gospel, it's the it's right, it's like the Gnostic stuff that was hidden when it's like we went into a mom's guest bathroom and found this forgotten document.
• 9:01
  It's like you open it up and you hear people butterflies fly out of it.
• 9:05
  Right, right.
• 9:06
  The sun shines in.
• 9:08
  Yeah, the sun comes through the window.
• 9:10
  Yeah, no, totally.
• 9:12
  I just I I'm really happy to be sharing um these things that have informed my life with other people in in in a meaningful way.
• 9:22
  Yeah.
• 9:23
  And that is what intentionality is for me right now.
• 9:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:29
  That's beautiful.
• 9:31
  In addition to, you know, sort of our working definition, which is it's about how you want to show up.
• 9:36
  Yeah.
• 9:36
  But it's like that is kind of how I want to show up.
• 9:39
  I I want to create things that help people to think more deeply about their lives and reflect on it and maybe have a little bit more fun.
• 9:47
  I mean, there we were talking last night about there's like a levity infused into a lot of these sayings.
• 9:53
  Yes.
• 9:54
  Um, which is definitely helpful for me in my life, which I feel like is a little bit of a segue maybe to the the first saying, unless there's something um that you want to share about your own experience with intentionality.
• 10:06
  No right now.
• 10:07
  No, no, no.
• 10:07
  What is the first saying?
• 10:08
  I'm forgetting.
• 10:10
  These two these two sayings are.
• 10:11
  It's like I feel like we're like right in the core of the intentionality poster.
• 10:16
  Yeah.
• 10:16
  And I just feel like I mean the the other ones were good, but I feel like they're good.
• 10:20
  It's like we've been climbing up a mountain, you know?
• 10:22
  Yeah.
• 10:22
  Yeah.
• 10:22
  And these two go really well together.
• 10:24
  So the first one is when in doubt, choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 10:33
  Okay.
• 10:34
  When in doubt, choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 10:40
  Yes.
• 10:41
  Yes.
• 10:43
  Okay, great.
• 10:44
  And then what's the second one?
• 10:46
  The second one is life is a joke.
• 10:49
  Either you get it or you don't.
• 10:54
  Yeah.
• 10:55
  So good.
• 10:56
  So, and uh we'll share.
• 10:58
  I had a major revelation on your interpretation of that second one last night, but we'll we'll share that after.
• 11:04
  Let's talk about when in doubt, choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 11:10
  Yeah, so it's like this these sayings are great because they seem unrelated, but then when I when we were talking about them last night, I realized oh, they are related.
• 11:20
  And um anyway, when in doubt, choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:28
  So I just want to sit with it for a second.
• 11:37
  Okay.
• 11:40
  So if intentionality means I'm choosing my beliefs, I'm not that's a big part of what intentionality is.
• 11:48
  I I just want to kind of like pause.
• 11:49
  Yeah, that there is choice involved.
• 11:51
  Yes, that there's choice involved.
• 11:53
  And and that in what I believe.
• 11:55
  There's choice involved.
• 11:56
  There's choice in what I believe.
• 11:58
  In what I believe.
• 11:58
  Which which there's an amount of freedom that a person has to have in order for that to occur.
• 12:12
  To be able to choose their beliefs.
• 12:13
  In order to be able to choose what you believe.
• 12:17
  I think.
• 12:18
  Or to even accept that belief is a choice.
• 12:21
  Right.
• 12:22
  Or to be able to notice that your mind is doing this thing called believing.
• 12:27
  That your mind is like, what I mean by believing is uh it's creating beliefs.
• 12:34
  It's believing.
• 12:35
  Like your mind is constantly creating beliefs.
• 12:41
  And it is f and those beliefs are are thoughts that all kind of go together in constellations that make sense about certain things.
• 12:49
  And but those beliefs are the reason pretty much that you feel what you feel.
• 13:01
  So our feelings are based on our beliefs.
• 13:03
  Yeah.
• 13:04
  Yeah.
• 13:05
  Which you know are probably related to our thoughts, I would imagine.
• 13:07
  Yeah, and I think they're also uh foundational to our attitudes and our approaches and therefore to intentionality, right?
• 13:16
  So intentionality is saying intentionality really is all about belief.
• 13:22
  If you if you if you if you crack it down to like really what it's like, tell me more.
• 13:27
  Well, like each of the slogans are different things to believe than than I might already have been believing, or I might have taught myself to believe, or I might have learned along the way, or I might unconsciously believe about something.
• 13:40
  Like like, for example, you know, I might believe that there's a certain amount of suffering that I have to do in order to appropriately um grief something, or it like we use that example.
• 13:52
  Yeah I can't remember.
• 13:54
  Right.
• 13:54
  I'm you know, I might I might have that, like, oh, or or or that if or that if like let's say this, I might have a belief that says, if I if I'm doing the dishes, even though I don't really want to, but I'm willing to, and I stand there and do them, I might have something inside me that says, I need to be grumpy while I do this.
• 14:14
  I I need to be grumpy while I'm doing these dishes because I really don't want to be doing them.
• 14:19
  Like, do you know what I'm saying?
• 14:21
  Like there's all of these layers of if this then that, if this then that, if this then that.
• 14:27
  And so this and I and I think it's it's unconscious.
• 14:31
  Like I it's so deep in our psyche.
• 14:36
  It really does for me.
• 14:38
  I have to really pause to get in touch with what that is.
• 14:41
  Like, oh, here I am, resentfully doing the dishes.
• 14:44
  Who's who's making me resentful?
• 14:47
  Me.
• 14:48
  Like no one is doing that to me.
• 14:51
  The dishes aren't doing it to me, you're not doing it to me, life's not doing it to me.
• 14:59
  But yeah, there's a belief that because I'm not because I didn't want to do it, I should be unhappy.
• 15:09
  Yeah, I feel like this saying is pointing to the fact that there are multiple beliefs um available.
• 15:19
  Yeah, like I don't want it to get too like, yeah, right, and I don't mean to get too abstract about it, which is why I brought in the thing about the dishes, because I think that like I have our kitchen window is right in front of our sink is in in front of the our kitchen window.
• 15:38
  We have a window above the sink.
• 15:39
  Our kitchen sink is and it looks out into the street.
• 15:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:43
  And so I get to watch people walk up and down the street and take their trash cans out all the time.
• 15:48
  Yeah.
• 15:48
  And I can kind of see who wants to be taking their trash can out.
• 15:52
  Like sometimes there's a certain neighbor who walks his trash can out just with the flappitiest, McFlappy, frustrated arms.
• 15:59
  It's like, you can just see like exasperation.
• 16:02
  Here I am, taking out the trash.
• 16:04
  Oh my god, I'm taking out the flappity, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, all the way down the driveway.
• 16:09
  Beautiful day.
• 16:10
  Right?
• 16:11
  Uh-huh.
• 16:12
  Just taking out the trash.
• 16:13
  Got the time to take out the trash.
• 16:15
  I have no idea what neighbor you're even taking.
• 16:16
  It's okay.
• 16:17
  Because I don't, I don't, you know, I just want to say it's just something that I've noticed.
• 16:20
  Uh-huh.
• 16:21
  And so, and I can see it like in people's like for I just sit, it's like a parade of humanity.
• 16:26
  I can watch some people are are like, you know, they're walking their dog and they're like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:32
  You're just having the best time.
• 16:34
  Some people are on work calls, grumpy.
• 16:37
  So, you know, I mean, whatever it is that's going on, people are sort of on parade, and I'm, you know, I hope, oh man, now our neighbors listening to this.
• 16:46
  But I get to watch people out the window.
• 16:48
  And anyway, I just tend to think my observation about that is that I can see it in other people too, I guess is my point.
• 16:57
  You know, I can see what in other people.
• 17:00
  Like people being frustrated because they're waiting in a line at a grocery store, for example.
• 17:04
  And you think some of this is based on beliefs that they're choosing?
• 17:07
  Yeah.
• 17:07
  Is that true?
• 17:08
  I think I do.
• 17:08
  I think that they have an unconscious belief that says, I'm late, therefore I should be upset.
• 17:13
  How about that one?
• 17:14
  How about that belief?
• 17:16
  I'm late and that's worthy of being upset.
• 17:21
  It's just i i it it it takes all of those and I think sometimes, oh of course, you know, if I'm gonna be disappointing somebody, I it's not like I'm do you understand what I'm trying to say here?
• 17:33
  I think I think I do.
• 17:36
  You know, it's like if I'm late, of course I care about the person and I I might care about it.
• 17:40
  But you know, if you've ever seen someone that's just so incredibly flustered and or like road rage, for example.
• 17:50
  Yeah, so but but I think the larger thing that you're pointing to is that these um emotional states can often be based on beliefs that we have that we may not know our beliefs.
• 18:04
  Right.
• 18:04
  Like what I'm I'm sitting over here thinking, okay, well, what is a belief?
• 18:08
  I mean, my cursory amateur definition would be that it is something that is not based on substantial facts.
• 18:19
  I mean, the most common thing that I think of when it comes to belief is like a belief in God.
• 18:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:26
  You know, which cannot be proven.
• 18:28
  Oh, yeah.
• 18:29
  And so therefore must be believed.
• 18:33
  You know, or if you were to say, I did not eat all the cookies, but I have no proof one way or the other whether or not you ate all the cookies.
• 18:42
  I just have to believe you.
• 18:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:47
  And so there's a certain amount of like faith going on, faith.
• 18:51
  But but I think what you're talking about is these unconscious beliefs that we have that we don't know that we have.
• 18:59
  Now, if we can sort of like put a wedge in that door and open up that unconscious space a little bit and see, oh, these are beliefs.
• 19:09
  And oh, I can actually choose which ones I believe.
• 19:16
  Yeah.
• 19:18
  Yeah.
• 19:19
  Um, it's a powerful, powerful um statement.
• 19:26
  When in doubt.
• 19:27
  And so that's the other part of it.
• 19:28
  It's not just like choose all the beliefs that are useful to you.
• 19:30
  When you're in doubt, when you're not sure what to believe, choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 19:40
  Which yeah.
• 19:41
  I mean, why do you think he you tr he he chose the word useful?
• 19:45
  Well, it's it it harkens it harkens back to a previous saying, which is it's useful to be the past in a friendly way.
• 19:54
  So there's a utilitarianism built into these sayings, from what I can see.
• 20:00
  Which again, if we're defining intentionality as how you show up.
• 20:04
  Right.
• 20:06
  You know, utility seems to be a part of that for me.
• 20:11
  Yeah.
• 20:12
  It's like, yeah, I want this stuff to work for me.
• 20:15
  Right.
• 20:16
  So what is useful is very helpful.
• 20:20
  Are you um okay, my love?
• 20:23
  The cat the cat is very much scaring her right now.
• 20:26
  Well, he's doing this thing, which cats do, where they circle you like a shark.
• 20:32
  Okay, but babe, choose the belief that must that's most useful to you.
• 20:36
  Maybe he don't want to attack you.
• 20:37
  Oh no.
• 20:38
  His tail is wagging.
• 20:40
  His tail is flipping back and forth, his eyes are the size of, you know, his pupils are the size of dinner plates.
• 20:46
  Does he need a little bit?
• 20:48
  He just needs a little ba-pa.
• 20:50
  We we might have even heard of meow there.
• 20:52
  Okay.
• 20:53
  Yeah.
• 20:53
  Okay, buddy.
• 20:54
  The other thing that I want to say about this saying is that I feel like it really set me up to have the spiritual beliefs that I have.
• 21:02
  Oh, how?
• 21:03
  So, I mean, basically, anytime that it uh I've personally find it more useful to believe that there's something out there.
• 21:15
  There's something like what?
• 21:16
  A bug swatter?
• 21:17
  A bug killer?
• 21:18
  What's out there?
• 21:19
  That there's some the universal life force god something.
• 21:25
  Like I don't even know what to call it.
• 21:27
  Well, you're talking about believing in God.
• 21:29
  Yeah.
• 21:29
  When in doubt, so if I were to have like a loss of faith or something, when in doubt, choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 21:38
  So it's it and and for those of you that like I don't know if I've gotten into this so much in this podcast, but I like to say I was raised Episcopagan.
• 21:49
  So I both went to church and got baptized and, you know, knew about the the equinoxes and the solstices and Mother nature and rituals and whatnot.
• 22:03
  And it was just all everything was all there together.
• 22:05
  There wasn't like a strict delineation, at least in my own head, around it.
• 22:10
  And so and then in I think getting older and realizing, oh yeah, not everybody believes in all of these things.
• 22:18
  And is one of them right?
• 22:20
  You know, if I don't do X, Y, and Z, am I going to hell?
• 22:24
  Yeah.
• 22:25
  Because that, you know, that definitely came online at a certain point the more um I talked to other kids at school that had very specific beliefs.
• 22:33
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  And so I would then go back to this saying, having read it when I was five years old or whatever, when in doubt, you know, does God exist or not?
• 22:46
  Choose the belief that is most useful to you.
• 22:48
  And so, or even when it's like, does God exist or not?
• 22:51
  Like, my life is better when I'm thinking that God exists, when I'm believing that God exists.
• 22:59
  And that's not that doesn't mean that that would be the same for everybody else.
• 23:02
  I could see situations where maybe your life isn't better when you think that God exists.
• 23:06
  But for me, it is most useful to believe that there is something that I can maybe communicate with, get signs from, and symbols and and all of that.
• 23:17
  And so yeah, I mean, I think what's really cool about being alive right now just you know, very specifically as a woman in America.
• 23:33
  Oh boy.
• 23:34
  Okay.
• 23:34
  Yeah.
• 23:35
  So that's just where are we going?
• 23:37
  That's just from here.
• 23:38
  Well, I get to I I don't have to be identified by my beliefs.
• 23:43
  Like I think that that I mean, there's still a fair amount of tribalism around beliefs, you know.
• 23:49
  And like if you're gonna be in this tribe, then this is what you're gonna believe.
• 23:52
  Yeah.
• 23:52
  And if you're gonna be in this tribe, then this is what you're gonna believe.
• 23:55
  And I think technically, I'm in a tribe of people who who believe similarly to what I believe.
• 24:02
  And so they're they're I I belong to the tribe of the open.
• 24:07
  High trait openness, you know.
• 24:10
  Like, you know, the big five.
• 24:11
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:12
  Like most of my friends tend to be very high in trait openness, like they're open right to other beliefs.
• 24:18
  Okay.
• 24:18
  Okay, that's part of the openness, that's part of the other beliefs.
• 24:23
  Totally, exactly.
• 24:24
  And I think that Murray was really open.
• 24:27
  Yeah.
• 24:28
  I think if I were to say this, well, it's okay, choose the belief that's most useful to you.
• 24:32
  To people who were not high in trade openness, they would probably really argue with this.
• 24:38
  And they would say, that's spiritual bypassing, that is uh wrong because you're ignoring what's true.
• 24:47
  And I think they would they would really argue.
• 24:49
  I mean, I can imagine actually having a real dialogue with someone who who had a different experience around this because you know, it it would be interesting.
• 25:01
  I mean, you and I are very similar in regards to this.
• 25:03
  It would be really interesting to talk to someone who who wasn't as high on trade openness, you know, someone who was, you know, more conservative, because that's the that's how that gets played out.
• 25:15
  Well, you know, it's like on this on one side of the the king or the queen sat to the right, sat to the to the person that was more conservative.
• 25:22
  The more conservative person relied on tradition, and to the left was the more progressive person, and that person wanted to move things forward.
• 25:30
  And they they both sat on either side of the monarch, to the right, to the left, in order to guide the the monarch in the direction of what was in the middle, right?
• 25:40
  And so that's where this comes from, the right and the left.
• 25:42
  Uh-huh.
• 25:42
  That's where it comes from.
• 25:43
  Oh wow.
• 25:44
  Right.
• 25:44
  So I tend to be a person who is more forward-thinking, who is more progressive, and who is is less attached to tradition.
• 25:51
  So this this this particular slogan, it really resonates with me.
• 25:55
  It's like, oh, of course.
• 25:58
  But when folks are really attached to tradition, it's like, no, we eat lamb on Easter.
• 26:04
  Well, okay.
• 26:05
  I think that there's you know, and and this is the way that it is.
• 26:09
  I mean, there's there's no you marry someone from the same tribe or you get excommunicated, you you know, there's all of that.
• 26:17
  I think that that um with the more traditional person, yeah, they don't need this saying because they don't have doubt as much.
• 26:30
  Oh god.
• 26:32
  Yeah.
• 26:32
  Oh my god.
• 26:33
  So I think that that's that's the nuance there.
• 26:35
  This saying this saying isn't saying always choose the belief that's most useful to you.
• 26:40
  It's saying when in doubt.
• 26:42
  Oh, that's brilliant.
• 26:44
  You would have to have doubt.
• 26:45
  You would have to have doubt.
• 26:46
  And so someone that's more open might have more doubt because they're thinking about different possibilities, right?
• 26:54
  Yes.
• 26:55
  But if you're tied to tradition, then you don't even need this saying, actually.
• 27:01
  And I could see how someone that is tied to tradition, this would potentially be very confusing for them.
• 27:08
  Yes.
• 27:09
  Um, like what do you mean you can choose your beliefs?
• 27:13
  You can't just do that.
• 27:15
  Also, this this is what I believe.
• 27:18
  This is what so-and-so God says to believe.
• 27:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:20
  And there's no doubt.
• 27:21
  I I have this belief in this God, and this God says believe these things.
• 27:25
  So there's authority figure says believe these things.
• 27:28
  Yeah.
• 27:28
  So there is there is a a a streak in in Uncle Murray's philosophy.
• 27:34
  Yeah.
• 27:34
  In his intentionality philosophy, that is very anti.
• 27:38
  I think it is uh it's can be a little bit absurd almost.
• 27:42
  Like um, it's hyperbolic, it points to things in a really grand way.
• 27:46
  Yeah.
• 27:47
  But it's also um irreverent.
• 27:51
  Totally.
• 27:52
  You know?
• 27:52
  Yeah.
• 27:54
  Yeah.
• 27:54
  I mean, basically, if you have a stick up your butt, he's gonna help you pull it out.
• 28:00
  Yeah.
• 28:00
  He was kind of like maybe like the George Carlin of therapists or something.
• 28:04
  Yeah, t I could totally see that.
• 28:06
  Yeah, if George Carlin was a therapist and a good one.
• 28:09
  Yeah.
• 28:10
  Yeah.
• 28:10
  Oh my goodness.
• 28:12
  Uh-huh.
• 28:12
  Well, shall we talk about our second saying?
• 28:15
  Yes.
• 28:16
  Life is a joke.
• 28:18
  Either you get it or you don't.
• 28:19
  Either you get it or you don't.
• 28:20
  Do you want to share what you because we talked about a couple different ways of looking at this last night.
• 28:28
  All right.
• 28:28
  So this this is this is what this is a co-on, this one.
• 28:32
  Like I could take this life as a joke, either you get it or you don't.
• 28:36
  And I could sit down on the meditation cushion, and I could relax my body and focus on my breathing for a little while.
• 28:42
  And then I could just sit this in my mind, just repeat it to myself, and then let it cook, cook, cook.
• 28:48
  You know, not not cook cook cook.
• 28:51
  Ding.
• 28:55
  Someone who's listening has to know that.
• 28:57
  I'm gonna link that Sophie Tucker song.
• 28:58
  I'm gonna I'm gonna share it with you because it's so good.
• 29:01
  Um, so yeah, it's like I could just fold it in, and then the idea is I'm not thinking about it, I'm being with it.
• 29:08
  And that's a that's a very different way of like approaching an idea.
• 29:15
  Just to let it cook, just to be with it, just sit with it.
• 29:19
  Like, okay, and then what comes up, right?
• 29:22
  So the first thing that that came up with me, particularly last night, when I was going around this one again, because I've gone around it over and over again, is um, yeah, life, okay.
• 29:32
  So this this thing is it's funny, right?
• 29:34
  This this slogan is a joke.
• 29:36
  Well, I mean if you get the joke, it's funny.
• 29:39
  Well, what makes a joke?
• 29:40
  Uh what makes something funny to somebody?
• 29:42
  Like you laugh before you realize it's funny.
• 29:45
  That's what makes a joke.
• 29:47
  And then if you had to go back and explain it, uh-huh, it's not as simple as a pie in somebody's face, but like, why is a pie in somebody's face funny?
• 29:55
  It's because you're not supposed to put pie in the face.
• 29:56
  It's like a line of your face, right?
• 29:58
  And so there's like these two trains crossing at a station and you have to jump through them in order to in order to make the joke.
• 30:05
  It's like if two trains are speeding by one another at the point at which it you could jump through one and through the other and land on the other side, that's what makes a joke.
• 30:13
  You you have to thread the needle between two convert Yes.
• 30:18
  But it's also the point that you're making.
• 30:21
  So life is a joke.
• 30:24
  Which means life is funny.
• 30:26
  I mean, jokes are funny, but jokes are more than funny.
• 30:29
  Like comics are known for being more than funny.
• 30:32
  Like comics will make you laugh, but they make you laugh because they make you think.
• 30:35
  It's like a poem.
• 30:36
  A joke is like a poem.
• 30:37
  It points at something, but it doesn't tell you why it's funny.
• 30:40
  It leaves it up to you, right?
• 30:42
  Which is like why some people are like, I don't get it.
• 30:47
  They can't see it.
• 30:49
  Do you think there are people at the end of their life realizing that life was a joke and they're like, damn it?
• 30:54
  Damn it.
• 30:54
  It was a joke.
• 30:56
  Honestly, that's part of the the message for me is like, don't don't miss the joke, is part of what I what I um read in that.
• 31:04
  Yeah.
• 31:04
  Like there's something to pay attention to here, and you might miss it.
• 31:08
  And it's freaking funny.
• 31:10
  Right.
• 31:10
  And so part of that pointing, part of the intentionality is don't take yourself so fucking seriously, right?
• 31:15
  Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 31:16
  100%.
• 31:17
  Murray was also the guy that in his office at USF, which was down in the basement, by the way, because that's where they put all my terrible therapists.
• 31:23
  Weird people.
• 31:24
  So they put us all just down there, it's like there in the anthropology department.
• 31:27
  He he had opened it up down there as one of his studies.
• 31:31
  I was down there too.
• 31:32
  I was down in the basement.
• 31:36
  He had that big poster of like it was like a picture of the it was like a poster of the Milky Way and the tiny little dot, and it says you are here.
• 31:43
  Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
• 31:44
  You know that poster?
• 31:46
  Uh uh yeah.
• 31:48
  Okay, okay, okay.
• 31:50
  Sorry, mind blown.
• 31:52
  My okay.
• 31:54
  You're like, I was raised by the same hippies.
• 31:58
  I was okay.
• 31:59
  Listen, at the house, my mom um had she had moved her hair salon to the garage and she converted this room downstairs across from the bathroom where the poster was into her massage room.
• 32:11
  And she had she had on the ceiling a parachute that like billowed with with um white Christmas lights underneath it.
• 32:23
  Yep.
• 32:23
  And so you felt like you were looking up to the galaxy.
• 32:29
  And then she had a wind chime in that room.
• 32:32
  Why she had a wind chime in an interior room, I don't know.
• 32:35
  But there was there was a wind chime, and and at the bottom of the wind chime, the little dingy thing or whatever, there was a postcard taped to it.
• 32:44
  And that postcard was that poster.
• 32:47
  And so you would go into this massage room where it looked like you're looking up at the stars, and then there's this postcard that has the Milky Way galaxy that says you are here with a thing pointing.
• 32:57
  And I mean, it just it was iconic.
• 33:00
  There is somebody listening to this right now that remembers this, and maybe she still has that postcard.
• 33:07
  Um, I ended up with a postcard that I think was in that series that has Earth's picture on it, and it says good planets are hard to find.
• 33:15
  Oh, I know, which is very true scientifically.
• 33:19
  Um, there aren't many planets out there that have what we have, okay?
• 33:29
  Oh my god.
• 33:31
  So it's okay, so that must have come from Murray.
• 33:35
  I I don't know.
• 33:36
  I mean Mom will have to tell us.
• 33:38
  That's just so okay.
• 33:39
  So he had this poster with the Milky Way, and it says, You are here.
• 33:43
  I think the point of of where I was going is like, don't take yourself so seriously.
• 33:47
  Like the like you're very small.
• 33:48
  You're a spec.
• 33:49
  Yeah.
• 33:49
  Yeah.
• 33:50
  And um there's a humility that's kind of built into this.
• 33:52
  Like it just like lighten up a bit, you know.
• 33:55
  Totally.
• 33:55
  It's called enlightenment, not endarkenment, right?
• 33:58
  Yes, you know, I mean, it's like lighten up.
• 34:01
  That's the point of this stuff.
• 34:02
  It's totally just to is to move with a little more grace, you know, to wear the world like a like a like a soft cloak, right?
• 34:10
  Just to just like not to not to wear it so tightly and to take a breath, right?
• 34:16
  So there's the first part of it, which just on its face is um, you know, amazing and great.
• 34:24
  Um sorry about that.
• 34:26
  I'm gonna I need to put my phone on on uh um you know, I don't know how these scam likely people manage to get through my do not disturb, but they do, they still do.
• 34:34
  Oh, I know.
• 34:35
  I'm I'm full on airplane mode.
• 34:37
  I'm not gonna go.
• 34:38
  I just put my phone in airplane mode.
• 34:40
  I apologize about that.
• 34:41
  So anyway, yeah, I think it is like nothing.
• 34:43
  Not take yourself so seriously.
• 34:44
  Not take yourself so seriously.
• 34:46
  But then there's this other there's this the next part was like, okay, it's a joke, all right, I can see that.
• 34:51
  But then it's like you either get it or you don't.
• 34:55
  Yeah.
• 34:56
  And I was thinking about that part, and I was like, yeah, that is the thing about life.
• 35:01
  You either get life, like in other words, you get a life.
• 35:05
  Yes.
• 35:06
  This is the thing you said yesterday, and I was like, It's a play on words.
• 35:09
  It's a play on words.
• 35:10
  Life is a joke.
• 35:12
  Like, and either you get the life or you don't get the life.
• 35:16
  And when you're not here, you don't get this life anymore.
• 35:19
  Totally.
• 35:20
  And so this this is Oh, and then there's like a there's that contrast of like, yes, don't take it so seriously.
• 35:27
  You are a spec in the universe, and also you've been given this amazing gift.
• 35:34
  Yeah, you're a precious like the it points back to that, you know, this thing that it's a precious human life.
• 35:43
  Yeah.
• 35:44
  That if you have a life where you uh have the ability to be listening to us right now because your ears work, that your eyes work, that your body works, that your that you can read, uh chances are if you're listening to this podcast, you can read.
• 36:02
  Right.
• 36:03
  But this is unheard of, really.
• 36:06
  I mean, that we could read that we can think, that we can choose a belief.
• 36:12
  And you know, the Tibetans say that we're able to, if we're able to practice the Dharma, if we're able to have some kind of spiritual practice that we're returning to.
• 36:22
  But that's what makes the the human life so precious is that we have the ability to be intentional.
• 36:30
  We have the ability to be intentional.
• 36:32
  All the other animals don't.
• 36:33
  Yeah.
• 36:34
  They don't have intentionality.
• 36:35
  Totally.
• 36:36
  That this is this you know, and so that idea of reflecting on the preciousness of the human life is is one of the four preliminaries.
• 36:46
  It's one of the we call it's one of the mind it's called one of the four mind-turning thoughts like that that we use in meditation.
• 36:51
  Like when I sit down and meditate, I'm I will think to myself, far out.
• 36:59
  Far out far out.
• 37:01
  I'm I'm this is a precious human life.
• 37:03
  Like I have the opportunity to sit down and meditate.
• 37:06
  Yeah.
• 37:06
  Like just to just to be wow, it's i i it's experience the awe, the gratitude, just to turn my mind in that direction, to recognize it, to realize it.
• 37:16
  And um you know, and then to realize that it's precious and it's impermanent, and that's also what makes it precious.
• 37:24
  It makes me love you more, but to know that one day I know Wow, this took a turn.
• 37:32
  But it does, you know, it's it it's it's like it makes love precious.
• 37:37
  It does.
• 37:38
  Because I know that it's not permanent.
• 37:40
  If I if it was here all the time and be some crazy vampire, I don't know what I would have to be doing to entertain myself if I lived forever.
• 37:46
  Right, right.
• 37:46
  Totally.
• 37:47
  I would be nuts.
• 37:48
  I mean, I would be doing all that shit that vampires do, which is why I'm convinced that vampire stories exist as a moral teaching on that it's okay to die.
• 37:56
  Not only is it okay, it's good.
• 37:58
  Wow.
• 37:58
  It's good.
• 37:59
  You know, I mean, not that I'm looking forward to it.
• 38:02
  Yeah.
• 38:02
  I I I'm I'm I'm not.
• 38:05
  Like yippee.
• 38:06
  I don't have that sense.
• 38:07
  I know some people do feel that way.
• 38:09
  You know, one day I'll be at rest and uh one fine morning when this life is over, I'll fly away.
• 38:15
  Oh my gosh.
• 38:16
  You know?
• 38:17
  Yeah.
• 38:18
  And I get that part of it too, but it's um anyway.
• 38:22
  Wow.
• 38:23
  That was this I mean, I and it just really hit me.
• 38:25
  I was like, yeah, I get it.
• 38:27
  I get a life.
• 38:28
  You either get it or you don't.
• 38:29
  You either get it or you don't.
• 38:31
  And then it's that double entendre.
• 38:33
  You either get it, you either realize that.
• 38:35
  Right, exactly, exactly, exactly.
• 38:38
  Yes, yes.
• 38:41
  And so that's what that's where the joke part, I think, really comes in.
• 38:44
  This almost might be the piece de resistance of Uncle Mary's creative download, you know.
• 38:50
  Like some of these slogans I can kind of like, meh, uh you know.
• 38:53
  But um this one I think really uh Well, and it's like if you just say life is a joke on its own, it means something completely different.
• 39:05
  Yeah, it means spiritually bypass.
• 39:07
  Just laugh.
• 39:07
  Don't don't it means it to me, it means like using humor as a deflection or as a defense mechanism.
• 39:14
  Yeah.
• 39:15
  Or as a way to, you know, to not be humor.
• 39:20
  To avoid other parts of humanity.
• 39:21
  What was the what was the uh there was a term that the existentialists used?
• 39:28
  Absurdity.
• 39:28
  It's like it points to the just it's like life is absurd, blah, blah, blah, you know, do what you want.
• 39:35
  Yeah.
• 39:36
  Um but when it but when it's followed up with either you get it or you don't, it's like, oh, whoa, okay, hold on.
• 39:44
  Am I getting it?
• 39:46
  The other thing that I I always think of with the saying is again reading it as a five-year-old who's just barely grasping the concept that there is this thing called life and that I'm living it.
• 39:59
  Yeah.
• 40:00
  And then reading that life is a joke, which I knew what jokes were at that time.
• 40:06
  And so life.
• 40:10
  I just what this did to my brain.
• 40:13
  I'm so grateful for it though, because man, I am a very strange person to be married to.
• 40:20
  And you are just too.
• 40:25
  And it's thanks to Uncle Murray's sayings.
• 40:28
  And thanks to Scylla and OV.
• 40:30
  But yeah, I just again I can just like whether it actually happened or not, picture my mom being I'm like, what do you mean life is a joke?
• 40:38
  Oh my god.
• 40:39
  I just hit my glasses on the on this little plate where I had my toast and it sounded like a meditation bell.
• 40:50
  Oh my goodness.
• 40:51
  Yeah, I've been really pondering that life is a joke and I'm either gonna get it or I'm not.
• 40:56
  And then I'm like, well, I mean, I'm an A student, so I want to get it.
• 41:00
  Yeah.
• 41:00
  Well, I mean, I think he's also stating like life is uncertain, and we get to create the meaning there.
• 41:07
  And that's very similar to what the existentialists were saying as well.
• 41:11
  Right.
• 41:11
  You know.
• 41:12
  Um, you know, like it's it's really it's it's really up to us.
• 41:16
  I don't know if you ever read Camus version of the myth of Sisyphus.
• 41:21
  Uh I did, but I don't know if I remember a whole lot.
• 41:25
  Yeah, I mean, so you know, Sisyphus is has a difficult fate because he tries to escape death, and then um he's he's in the afterlife, then in in the in the underworld, he's sent to the bottom of this giant hill where he has to push this boulder up it every every day.
• 41:40
  This he just has to push and push and push and push, and then he gets to the top of it and he turns around and he has to watch it roll back down.
• 41:45
  And it's his fate to just in an all for eternity.
• 41:49
  Yeah.
• 41:49
  This is what Sisyphus has to do.
• 41:51
  And um so Camus's answer to Sisyphus is like, how does Sisyphus how does Sisyphus deal with this?
• 41:57
  And he walks this walks you through the whole process and then he just says Sisyphus laughed.
• 42:03
  Right.
• 42:04
  And Sisyphus laughed.
• 42:06
  Right.
• 42:07
  And there's something um He got the joke.
• 42:10
  He got the joke.
• 42:11
  It's like right.
• 42:12
  It's it's like we we we have to find, we have to make our own meaning, like we're all pushing the boulder.
• 42:17
  And I've definitely had experiences where it it something is is no bueno.
• 42:25
  And and I just laugh.
• 42:27
  Like, for example, when I was telling the story of how last summer um we had our uh canine assisted living facility with seeing Bodie go.
• 42:41
  And then our little 16-year-old.
• 42:43
  The week that he the week that he ultimately ended up passing was also the week that our AC went out, and it went out in such a bad way that we were living with um window units for a week.
• 42:58
  Yeah, and so the dog is dying.
• 43:02
  Yeah, and the window unit is just yeah.
• 43:08
  You know, it's just such a bizarre.
• 43:12
  Yeah.
• 43:12
  I still can't even knock about it without laughing, even though it was an incredibly difficult time.
• 43:18
  Well, it was it was just it was also absurd.
• 43:21
  And and I think it's one of those things where like the AC going out was was just um you know, I what I what I am cho what I choose to believe about that, and I I do have a belief, and that's useful to me, is that that was a synchronicity.
• 43:36
  And that's well, because the AC also went out the weekend that peanut time.
• 43:41
  I know.
• 43:42
  I think it was a synchronicity that we had AC issues at the same time that both of them went.
• 43:46
  Yeah.
• 43:47
  And with an I mean, yeah.
• 43:48
  Yeah.
• 43:48
  And it's it so it's it's like there was something about the the bro the way that the house was breathing.
• 43:55
  That that that's that's kind of where my mind has been going with it.
• 43:59
  That and Oh, right.
• 44:00
  Because when you die, your breath, you take the last breath.
• 44:03
  Yes.
• 44:03
  And so there's something about that.
• 44:05
  And then there was also something about the way that when that happened, it forced us all into one room.
• 44:10
  Right.
• 44:11
  And we all had to kind of just be together in that one room.
• 44:14
  And my experience of hospicing with folks is that you are in the one room.
• 44:21
  Right.
• 44:21
  You know, it's like the dying person.
• 44:22
  Everything's happening in that room.
• 44:23
  Everything is happening in that room.
• 44:25
  And um and and and that's that's w what's going on.
• 44:30
  Yeah.
• 44:31
  Yeah.
• 44:32
  Yeah.
• 44:34
  Hmm.
• 44:34
  The absurdity.
• 44:36
  The absurdity.
• 44:37
  The strangeness and the beauty.
• 44:39
  And our ability to like pick our own meaning and um experience that as as in you know, I think it could I think if you go into the direction of nihilism and you find that meaningful and it provides you with peace, then okay, I don't particularly agree with that.
• 44:56
  It doesn't work for me.
• 44:58
  Right, same.
• 44:58
  Same.
• 44:59
  Um but uh it that that doesn't mean that can't work for somebody for somebody else.
• 45:02
  That it may be useful for them.
• 45:04
  It may be useful for them.
• 45:06
  You know, it may be useful for them.
• 45:10
  I think too that that, you know, speaking of that, and that's the last bow that I'll tie around this, is that, you know, if if I recognize that all that is true for me, then sometimes I can sort of lighten up on the way that I'm attributing something to somebody else.
• 45:22
  Like if I can just say, well, it's useful for them.
• 45:24
  Exactly.
• 45:25
  You know, like if that's useful for them, and okay, and then I can see the humanity in it.
• 45:30
  It might not be useful for me.
• 45:31
  Well, and also it's like you're trusting you're you're choosing the belief that it is useful for them.
• 45:37
  It's useful for them.
• 45:37
  And if I can then approach that with like some curiosity as opposed to um, you know, the closed mind, as opposed to with a clenched fist, you know, if I can come at that with an open hand and be curious about it.
• 45:48
  I I have found when I hold that intentionality, I am more comfortable in my own skin and I sleep better at night and my gut my belly feels better and my low back doesn't hurt as much.
• 45:57
  Yeah.
• 45:59
  And also to your point at the beginning of the podcast, I think when I'm when I'm in that place and um then I'm more beneficial.
• 46:09
  I can really benefit others.
• 46:10
  And that that desire, you know, that bodhicta, yeah, that desire to be a benefit to other sentient beings is really at the heart of this podcast.
• 46:18
  Yes.
• 46:20
  It's it's why we're doing it.
• 46:22
  It's really just to be a benefit to share these things.
• 46:24
  And so may they be a benefit to you.
• 46:26
  May they be a benefit to you, dear listener.
• 46:30
  Thank you for accompanying us on another journey through Uncle Murray's sayings.
• 46:36
  We'll continue on with this for at least the next couple weeks.
• 46:39
  Yep.
• 46:40
  Um it feels like we reached the summit today in a certain kind of halfway down the poster.
• 46:46
  I'm really curious to see how the rest of it unfolds.
• 46:48
  It's been really fun.
• 46:49
  Oh, I'm loving it.
• 46:52
  And I'm I'm loving hearing from all of you.
• 46:55
  Those of you that are writing us in, and those of you leaving reviews, reading in reviews, all of that really, really helps us continue this on.
• 47:06
  So uh maybe share it with a friend, a family member, and um yeah, just uh keep on being your cutie patie selves out there.
• 47:19
  Go be different.
• 47:20
  Together.
• 47:37
  Okay.
• 47:38
  I feel like I need a sneeze.
• 47:41
  You need a sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, a sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze, do sneeze, I need a sneeze.
• 47:50
  Man, there's just like sometimes if I get that mic just like close enough to my lip, it tickles.
• 47:55
  Yeah, it tickles.
• 47:56
  Oh my gosh.