Latest / Honey Badger Radio / What about gender roles during the American revolution? | HBR Talk 309

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What about gender roles during the American revolution? | HBR Talk 309 · Honey Badger Radio

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  There we go. I didn't think my scene was going to change for me
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  for a second. But hello and welcome to HBr Talk three to nine.
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  What about gender roles during the American Revolution. I'm your host, Hannah Wallen
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  here with nonsense nihilator Lauren Brooks, and we're going to continue our talk about
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  the context surrounding the development of voting in early America as part of our greater
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  context around the development of voting in countries influenced by British colonialism and British common
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  law English common law. But first, before we do that, we gotta
• 0:41
  do what we gotta do. As always, Honey Badger Radio dishes out a
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  content, as well as a link to feed the Badger dot com and a
• 1:40
  drop down menu at the top of the page and to find me, you
• 1:44
  guys might need that Kisse. I have been provoking thoughts on Twitter and they
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  are mad. I have got two sex changes in the same night. Oh
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  my god, yep, I became a man twice. How's it feel?
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  Oh, very masculine, elevating. I am the patriarchy. Oh my god,
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  it's it's it's amazing, it's it's it's amazing to me. How how
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  sad empathetic that women have allowed themselves to become in mass like in general in
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  modern America. And I'm going back and forth right between if I'm on Twitter,
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  it's because I'm getting interrupted so much that I can't focus on the things
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  that I'm studying because they take a little more work than Twitter does. Twitter
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  is just like a thing, you know, like, well, I got
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  time for this, or I can't walk away from from the room I'm in.
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  But I can use this to distract myself in between things that I are
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  interrupting my studies. Right But I'm looking at women's roles during the prior to
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  and during the Revolutionary War here in America, and I just can't imagine if
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  I pulled one of those women into the twenty first century and got her into
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  a conversation with modern women about the issues around abortion, birth control, pregnancy,
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  custody, child support, and all that, I think those women would
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  actually get violent. I think it would kill the women. They'd be like
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  pisans. What happened, What happened to our country? What did you do
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  to our country? Because they were very loyal to their husbands, they cared
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  very deeply about their families. They used all of the tools available to them
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  to their own benefit and to the benefit of the people around them as best
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  they could. They didn't all agree on everything, and they got really heated
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  in their debates with each other about things. They didn't agree on, but
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  they didn't play victim of their own choices. Yeah, and it just that's
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  the thing that galls me so much. I get on Twitter and I get
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  into this this this argument. I'm in this thread that's been going on since
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  like February, and you know, no, it's it's might have been April
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  of last year. Actually there's there's been this discussion has been going on for
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  a long time, but the specific thread was started by a chick who was
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  trying to promote the idea that it is not an abuse of men's rights to
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  sort of draft them into child support, right, and so of course there's
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  the discussion of what tools women have available to determine whether or not they are
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  single moms with custody of a child at the end of the decision making,
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  the whole string of decision making that takes place between hello and now you're a
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  single mom. But they stop at like feminists stop at the part of the
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  sex act that is fun for a guy, and they want to blame everything
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  that happens afterward on that moment, because if you wouldn't acknowledge that the woman
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  went on from that moment and didn't make decisions that were beneficial to herself and
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  the people around her, didn't use the tools available to control the outcome so
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  that it could be better for her and the people around her, And then
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  is demanding money, you know for that, like they have no argument left
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  when you start pointing those things out to them. Well, that's how that's
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  how I get those Internet sex changes. And and I just keep I keep
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  looking back. So our subject today because uh, you know, I've been
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  having that discussion, and I've been reading this history, and I've been looking
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  into all of the context related to men's voting rights being you know, completely
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  connected, inextricably connected to conscription and women's voting rights just being accepted as rights.
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  And there's not actually a valid excuse for that. So that's what we're
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  kind of going to look at today. I have I'm gonna be jumping back
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  and forth between different articles because conscription during the Revolutionary War was not quite the
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  same as it is today. Obviously, they didn't have the lot system because
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  they didn't have the equipment that would be used to track that. They didn't
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  have anything to do with the modern system. They didn't have social security numbers,
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  they didn't have like they couldn't easily track you down if you just chose
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  to go running off into the inner part of the continent and not serve you
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  know, it was it was less involuntary than it is today. It would
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  be harder to chase you down and the rescue. Now, granted, not
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  everybody could just go off into the woods and live there. There are other
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  circumstances that might have prevented that. But I mean, just a reminder.
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  One of my earliest ancestors into this in this country was sent here. He
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  was he was conscripted in Britain. He was impressed into the British military,
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  meaning he was kidnapped and shipped overseas against his will. He was not just
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  drafted. And when he got here he decided fuck that and jump hip swam
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  ashore, fled inland and went all the way into what is now Ohio,
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  which at the time was part of Canada, so that he would not have
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  to fight because he was fourteen years old. It wasn't his battle. He
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  didn't want anything to do with that shit, and that was that, so
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  it could be done. Wow, fourteen, that's insane to think about.
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  Well, yeah, and so got we actually have a couple of different articles
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  here. One of them is child Soldiers of the Revolutionary War. So both
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  sides did have of very young people involved. But well, we'll point this
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  out as I go through that article, and I'll try to do it more
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  on a brief level. You'll notice something they say child soldiers. But but
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  look and see if you see girls' names. Did you stop screen sharing?
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  By the way, No, I did not. Can I don't think it
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  did it? Did it? Just it ended for me? Okay, let's
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  try that again. Share your screen go live must have cut me off.
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  I don't know why. There we go, all right, so this stream
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  should be available to you now, yeah, cool, all right. So
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  we're gonna start with the American militia and the origin of conscription. This is
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  actually a fairly old piece, and going to go through and read the whole
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  thing about the author talking about revising it. He'd been intending to but it
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  chose not to. But he does point out that there's actually a lot of
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  documentation on which to base the information in this. So and I'm not going
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  to go through and read like every page of it, but I don't think.
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  But what I will point out is people do say that conscription was created
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  in America for the Civil War, and this is what he starts with too.
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  According to established mythology, American citizens were not conscripted until the Civil War.
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  First the Confederacy and then the Union resorted to the draft to fill their
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  depleting armies. Prior to that, this mythology holds, no draft existed in
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  the United States. The US government fought the American Revolution, the War of
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  eighteen twelve, and the Mexican War solely with volunteers. Toward the end of
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  the War of eighteen twelve, the Madison administration did call for conscription, but
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  this request failed due to Daniel Webster's stirring and frequently reprinted denunciation of the draft
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  on the floor of Congress. Unfortunately, this Houseyon portrait is false in nearly
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  every respect. So that's that's the first thing, Like, people don't realize
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  this. I was taught in school that conscription started with the Civil War.
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  So this has been misconstrued to school kids and to the general public for a
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  long time because when I was in school where we're talking, I started school
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  in the late seventies and graduated in nineteen ninety one. But he goes on
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  to say the only US war fought without conscripts before the Civil War was the
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  Mexican War. American government's state or national drafted men not only to fight the
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  revolution in the War of eighteen twelve, but also to wage Indian wars and
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  to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion. So conscription. This country started with conscription.
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  It existed from the beginning. And that's something that people don't understand. Military
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  experts privy to the compulsory nature of the militia in the implications of such arcane
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  phrases calling forth the militia, have failed to communicate their knowledge to outsiders.
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  This is this is how people don't understand. Indeed, the militia's coercive elements
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  lasted until they were discontinued during the Jacksonian era. And I need to link
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  this. I'm gonna I think I'm gonna link this in the low bar,
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  or at least in the the uh uh the blog post, because there's probably
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  something people should read. I'm not gonna read all the footnotes, but I
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  think people ought to have access to it. So you see, there's there's
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  quite a bit here. Oh wow, So yeah, that's all footnotes.
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  So he has a lot He's not just talking out of his ass. This
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  guy actually has done a significant amount of research to write this and explain this,
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  and they're probably still teaching the wrong thing in schools. You're if you've
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  got kids in school, they're probably if they're learning about conscription at all,
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  they're probably learning that it didn't exist until the Civil War. So this is
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  the part that we're gonna focus on right here. The colonial Pillow period in
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  the American Revolution is it's what's relevant to what we're discussing. The malicious system
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  was originally transported to the American colonies from England at the outset. It was
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  grounded in the principle of universal obligation. And it says universal obligation. But
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  who are they talking about, all right? They're not talking about women right
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  now. And you remember when we've talked about the origin of the malicious system
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  in British law and British culture, that came from the feared, which was
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  sort of the early proto militia system of medieval England, when it was the
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  king and his vassals and his knights and their knights, and the service was
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  to the king, the service was to the vassals of the king and the
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  men of the community could be they could be pressured into it, but they
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  were more likely to be hired for it. So it was there was coercive
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  there. There were coercive details in regard to it. But at the same
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  time, you know that they preferred men who wanted to step up and defend
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  their communities in their country, not men and boys who were forced into it.
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  Because men who want to do it are going to do it better.
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  Yeah. Yeah, And honestly, that's my argument against conscription today. You
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  know, people, there are people of both sexes who want to be in
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  the military, and it's it's mostly men. Like even today, when there
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  are no barriers for women getting into the military and and and the barriers to
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  women serving on the front lines are actually being systematically removed. Hey, I
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  hear you can get a free you can get a free transgender surgery. If
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  that's your gig, why would you do that? But I mean there's no
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  barriers, but the military is still only fourteen percent women. Yeah, so
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  transgender search. Yeah, I suppose. I don't know, maybe women want
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  to go that want to go into the military might want to become men.
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  Who knows. I've met plenty of female soldiers that were quite feminine and didn't
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  want a sex change, And I'm not sure, Like, what would you
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  do. You go into the military, you get a sex change, you
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  now have to have consistent medical care for the rest of your life that would
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  actually keep you from being activated for duty, right exactly. But I mean,
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  geez that you think anybody on Biden's administration would think that far. No,
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  But this is the direction that we're going in now, you know.
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  But it just doesn't make sense. Our system is completely upside down and fucked.
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  Everything is the opposite of what they they wanted to be. Our military
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  is not as strong as we like to think that we are. But yeah,
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  I don't know, God forbid one of these wars comes knocking on our
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  back door. You know, we're screwed. We're screwed, all right.
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  The military has a purpose. It's a very specific, unique, limited purpose.
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  Right. The purpose of the military is to protect the nation from being
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  taken over and controlled by another nation. That is it. That is all
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  your military is supposed to be doing. If you're a malicious country, then
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  your military is to get used like our country has been using our military to
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  impose change on other countries against their will. But it's not supposed to be
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  that way. Your military is supposed to be your defense against malevolence from other
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  countries. So not that the law should take away people's right to make decisions
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  about their bodies, you know, like if so, if you will decide
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  you want to have a surgery, it shouldn't matter whether you want bigger tits
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  or to cut them off or and become a man or whatever. The law
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  shouldn't interfere with that, other than the fact that you consue your doctor if
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  the doctor does a bad job and you get infected and have all kinds of
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  problems that you shouldn't be having because the doctor should have done a better job.
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  Right, that's it. That's the extent that the law should be involve
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  But you know, the medical community can have their thing. The military should
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  have their thing. The military shouldn't be a pathway that people use to get
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  a surgery they want, or a series of surgeries, or any medical anything.
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  You know. It's it's bad enough that it's used as a pathway to
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  get rewards that pay for an education that actually leaves them in debt. Basically
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  a pathway into certain business arrangements. This is really not that either. And
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  if that's the primary reason that you're going in, then then you're not going
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  to be as useful for the actual purpose of the military. And if the
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  primary reason that you're going in is to get medical procedures done at the expense
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  of the US government, then you don't belong in the military. Like not
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  that you should have a right to pursue those medical procedures, but that you
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  shouldn't have a right to exploit the military as your pathway to pursue those medical
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  procedures. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with that.
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  There is a little part of me that is kind of like, you know,
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  I kind of support getting over on the government that's way, you know,
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  And it sounds so fucked up, And you know, I don't really
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  obviously it's wrong for all of the reasons that you just said, but you
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  know, that part kind of makes me giggle a little bit, you know,
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  And I just wish that I don't know, I wish that the military
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  if anyone is listening, Department of Homeland Security, since you want to put
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  us on your little fucking list, how about you take this whole military action
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  down to the southern border. Oh what's that? No, No, we
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  can't actually prevent other countries from literally invading US by walking across our very poorous
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  border. Yeah, nobody on any side of the border issues would be happy
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  if I was in charge. Like, make me a dictator for a couple
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  of years, and I will piss everybody off because you know what I will
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  do in regards to the southern border of the US, Like I will I
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  will create a pathway for everybody to come through and then be sorted out and
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  educated. M Like, that's fine, you can come here, but we're
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  going to indoctrinate you. And that includes you know, if you're if you're
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  part of a cartel. Okay, fine, we will take you and we
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  will put you through cult deprogramming, and then we will indoctrinate you into the
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  cons of you know, freedom and democracy. You know the concepts of altruism
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  and care and consideration for other people having a conscience. Yeah. And you
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  know, if anybody heard that and just you know, it felt a little
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  icky, that's exactly what they do in China. That's exactly what you do
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  in China. If you break the law there, they catch you, they
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  imprison you. Oh, no, you're going to learn the ways of the
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  CCP. You will obey one way or the other. You know, also
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  the HRW or this. By the time you come out of camp, you
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  will have learned that it's a great thing to be self supporting through your own
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  labor and to be the person that checks on your neighbors when there's a storm,
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  to make sure that nobody got hurt, nobody needs help, or if
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  they do, you're there to help, and and to know your neighbors will
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  do that for you. It's a great thing to step away from a a
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  an insane, violent environment into a lifestyle where you're part of a community that
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  has bonded together as a community over mutual investment in one's own welfare and the
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  welfare the people around oneself through through meritocracy, absolutely being being able to demonstrate
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  that you did a good job and being appreciative of the good job that other
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  people do. Right, that would like that? That would be it?
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  And then and then after a few years, I would I would abandon the
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  position to be like, wait a minute, what and no, no,
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  I wouldn't hold elections. I would dissolve the government and and and simply have
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  a skeleton crew to uh, maintain an actual defensive military, and that would
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  be it, Like, the defensive military would be something that the states did
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  independently of each other, but in conjunction with each other and in communication with
• 24:12
  each other, because that's kind of what they did during the colonial period.
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  But yeah, that would that would probably, like I said, it would
• 24:22
  piss everybody off because you know, you got the people that are like,
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  no, don't bring people in across the border. And then then you also
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  have the people that would be mad because of the indoctrination. But by the
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  I done with it, you know, it would it would be an entirely
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  evil and horrible thing to do to people because they would be in camps,
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  but by the time they got out, they would be they would be ready
• 24:44
  to live their lives with freedom, independence, and and community with their neighbors,
• 24:52
  and they wouldn't need somebody to tell them what to do. Yeah.
• 24:59
  Yeah, like I said, it would be terrible actually because that that is
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  essentially the same use of methods that the Wolke would use, you know,
• 25:15
  the the no bad bad tactics. Yeah, there are bad tactics. So
• 25:22
  the next best thing that you can do in a country because you would be
• 25:29
  taking away people's freedom. Under that circumstance, what's the next best thing you
• 25:33
  can do. Defend the borders, limit who comes through, then people who
• 25:40
  come through, and only let in people who are not going to attack your
• 25:45
  country, absolutely, you know. And and to be fair, to be
• 25:53
  fair, the people who are doing these jobs, they're well they're not really
• 26:00
  doing the job, but they're being paid to let this thing go happen,
• 26:06
  you know what I mean, Like it's there, it's the decisions are coming
• 26:10
  from all high. These people just come in and punch the clock, you
• 26:12
  know. But it's I don't know if I could do that again. I
• 26:22
  would be conflicted if I know that this border needs to be protected, but
• 26:26
  oh we're just looking the other way. I couldn't. I couldn't do it.
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  Yeah, It's like I said, you know, if if if I
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  was forced into a position because you wouldn't you couldn't pay me enough to make
• 26:44
  me actually want to become president of the United States or put into a leadership
• 26:51
  position like that. If I was forced into a position like that, those
• 26:56
  would be the two pathways I would look at. You know, I'm gonna
• 26:59
  end up setting on closing the border and limiting who can come in. But
• 27:06
  to explain why that has to happen. Now, you know what the alternative
• 27:11
  is. If we want to preserve a country like the United States and you
• 27:17
  want to let everybody in, the only way to achieve that is Campson indoctrination,
• 27:25
  Right, that's it. Otherwise you have to have a secure border.
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  M like. So, so I'm done scaring the shit out of everybody.
• 27:36
  But what Dictator Hanna would be like? But back to back to this article.
• 27:41
  So so remembering that we talked about the evolution of the malicious system in
• 27:48
  England, and we now know, you know from the article that this system
• 27:53
  came into the the American colonies with the colonists, so it was it was
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  never not practiced in in what would become the United States. At the outset.
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  It was grounded in the principles of universal obligation, which universal meant men
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  just just to be very blunt, Women were never part of this. Women
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  never had to do this, not under the not under the English system,
• 28:21
  not under the British system. Right, maybe under the pre Roman system women
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  might have been part of it. Back under the tribal systems, maybe there's
• 28:32
  some evidence that some women were. There's not evidence that it was equal.
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  So so first and enrolled. Oh, practices differed widely from colony to colony,
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  but everywhere the militia had two con coercive elements. First, it enrolled
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  every able bodied male between certain ages, usually sixteen to six. All right,
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  So if it'd be different if you had you know, for instance,
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  back then, they couldn't do anything if you were born with the condition known
• 29:10
  as clubfoot, you're just kind of gonna deal with that for your life.
• 29:15
  Or if you were born without one of your arms, or if which was
• 29:22
  a frequent thing you had, you lost one to an accident. They couldn't
• 29:27
  treat infection. So if you had an injury that that went deep enough that
• 29:36
  you got any of the types of infections that could lead to gangreen, they
• 29:41
  had to cut it off. Ooh, they like that was not a medicine.
• 29:48
  Was kind of brutal back then, damn there was. There wasn't a
• 29:52
  lot they could do. They didn't have antibiotics, they didn't fully they didn't
• 29:56
  have a full capacity to understand what was causing the infections. They just knew
• 30:02
  that you know, your your arm was going bad, you had you had
• 30:07
  gangreen and it would spread and it would eventually get into your blood and kill
• 30:11
  you if it hadn't already. So sometimes sometimes people got a limb cut off
• 30:17
  to save their lives and they died anyway because they were already septic. Hmm.
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  Right, So Catherine Scolly gives us three dollars Canadian and says, pair
• 30:29
  character punching the air with fist and bump written on his knuckles. It's cute.
• 30:36
  Oh yeah. So so when we were talking about every able bodied male,
• 30:41
  they had to have that stipulation because I mean, some people were not
• 30:47
  and and there wasn't anything they could do about it. And it was a
• 30:49
  more common thing than you think for somebody to not be able bodied. Also,
• 31:00
  Meredith, she gave us five dollars and said, HBr talk three oh
• 31:03
  nine, honey for the badgers. I want to point out that the Second
• 31:06
  Amendment was not simply about self defense, but also meant to distribute the responsibility
• 31:11
  of defense of the nation to the populace. That's correct. Take that into
• 31:15
  consideration when we look at conscription, because this is this is another factor,
• 31:21
  all right, you had to provide your own weapon. At that time,
• 31:25
  the military didn't issue you weapons and say you had to provide your own weapon,
• 31:30
  right, oh god uh yep, which even then guns were guns were
• 31:38
  an even bigger expensive tool than they are now. What about ammunition? You
• 31:44
  had to provide that yourself too, Jesus, and you got fined if you
• 31:52
  didn't. So they had to furnish their own arms and to muster for regularly
• 31:57
  scheduled training. They would get fined if they didn't. This mandatory training could
• 32:02
  be as frequent as once a week or more. But as the Indian threat
• 32:07
  receded, as the colonists stopped having conflict with the local Indian tribes, most
• 32:13
  colonies reduced the number of training days to approximately four per year. So got
• 32:20
  to remembers. The other thing is you think about a military that only trains
• 32:22
  four days a year, you would think, gosh, those guys aren't going
• 32:23
  to do anything right. But they didn't go sit at a desk job.
• 32:29
  The rest of the time. They went home and they chopped firewood or they
• 32:35
  froze in the wintertime. They had they grew their own crops, they plowed
• 32:42
  their own fields, They carried and lifted, they did heavy labor. Everyday
• 32:47
  life during that time involved heavy labor. For men, and pretty heavy labor
• 32:52
  for women too, although not quite as heavy as what men did, so
• 32:58
  nobody could just sit around and be wimpy that if they were skinny it was
• 33:04
  because they were starving. See. The militia thereby provided a compulsory system of
• 33:16
  universal military training, which in my opinion, is superior to waiting until wartime
• 33:24
  and starting to conscript people. I think, among other things, if we
• 33:34
  had a system today where all able bodied youth, male and female were taught
• 33:43
  what you need to know if you want to enlist in the military and defend
• 33:46
  the country during wartime, and that training was maintained throughout high school and what
• 33:54
  would be the time you're in college, whether you actually attend college or not,
• 34:00
  even if it was something that you did one weekend a month and you
• 34:05
  had to stay in shape for it, it would it would actually solve a
• 34:08
  lot of problems. Among other things, the the issue of uh, widespread
• 34:16
  obesity in the country would be greatly reduced, you know, but uh,
• 34:22
  you know, you would also have people would be very much aware of what
• 34:29
  it would mean for the country to go to war, and they would be
• 34:31
  very careful who they voted for because of that. So The second course of
• 34:39
  element was when the militia is called forth for active military service. This is
• 34:47
  only in dire emergency. Only for a short period would a militia district deploy
• 34:52
  it's enrolled manpower. UH. Normally, when a colonial government called upon its
• 34:59
  military for a milli military campaign, it would set quotas for each district.
• 35:06
  The districts would then try to fill the quotas with volunteers first, and sometimes
• 35:12
  the colonies would encourage volunteering with bounties. However, if volunteers were insufficient,
• 35:20
  the districts would then meet their quotas through drafts. Generally only the only legal
• 35:25
  ways of avoiding such militia drafts were either by paying a stiff fine or hiring
• 35:30
  a substitute. So again, this is another big difference between today's military service
• 35:38
  and the military service of the time. So, let's say you had a
• 35:49
  Let's say you had a job that you could not leave or your employer couldn't
• 35:53
  afford to lose you for that time period. Today, the employer or the
• 36:01
  network of employers for that type of job might have to appeal to the government,
• 36:07
  please exempt people who do this job from the military draft. And that
• 36:13
  was done during the Vietnam War for educators, educators were in very short supply.
• 36:19
  For a while, there was a huge shortage, and so if you
• 36:22
  were an educator, you could not be drafted during part of the Vietnam War.
• 36:30
  Close to the end of the war they eliminated that. But during part
• 36:37
  of the war that was a thing, and it wasn't because teachers weren't fit
• 36:43
  to serve. It's because you can't just hire a whole bunch of new people
• 36:49
  to replace them. They have to go through four years of school, take
• 36:52
  testing, get time in teaching under an experienced teacher, and then then get
• 37:00
  their certification before they can even contract with a school. So now the military
• 37:07
  could have just changed the rules. They could have said, well, you
• 37:10
  don't have to have a teaching certificate to be a teacher, because you didn't
• 37:15
  used to used to go to six six week or so study called normal school,
• 37:20
  and when you graduated from that you were a teacher. Wow. Yeah.
• 37:25
  So when my dad was a student, his teachers were normal school graduates
• 37:30
  and it was called normal n O r m AL normal, normal school.
• 37:36
  I went to weird school. I don't know what you guys, man,
• 37:39
  that's why, that's why I'm I'm I'm kind of a journalist and I'm more
• 37:44
  of a commentator and not a teacher. This is not education. I went
• 37:49
  to an interesting school. It was called skip Oh my god, I got
• 38:00
  accused of skipping school a lot. Is That's the other thing? Like I
• 38:06
  always say, I went to school, and I did in about two thirds
• 38:08
  of the time. The other third of the time I went to the hospital.
• 38:15
  I didn't spend that much time in the hospital, but I was admitted
• 38:19
  at least once a year. My poor parents, I can't imagine. They
• 38:23
  must have like spent spent my whole childhood on the edge of their seats.
• 38:27
  What is she going to do to herself next? How is she going to
• 38:30
  try to die this year? But in any case, yeah, so different
• 38:40
  things like that, if there's a shortage and the community feels like it's absolutely
• 38:47
  necessary to have this particular profession stateside, you know, or or away from
• 38:53
  the military, who can't lose these people, then they get exempted from the
• 38:59
  draft. And they do other things too, Like if you are the sole
• 39:05
  breadwinner for a family and you can't be replaced by another breadwinner in that family,
• 39:09
  sometimes that that that stipulation has been made in the past. The only
• 39:15
  son in a family is ineligible for the draft. If you have more than
• 39:22
  one son, then that's a different story. But the only son was ineligible.
• 39:25
  And I wonder how they will change if if they start drafting women.
• 39:31
  Will they say the only son and the only daughter or do you have to
• 39:35
  be an only child to be I know, to be to be exempt.
• 39:40
  All right, So there's there's a lot of standards that today that there's a
• 39:45
  maze of ways to get in and out. But back then, if you
• 39:51
  are in one of those situations where it would be a major burden for your
• 39:57
  family or major loss for your family beyond the norm of what a burden it
• 40:04
  would be and what a loss it would be for a family to have their
• 40:09
  their their their child go to war and not come back. Right. Uh,
• 40:14
  then you paid paid somebody else to take the job for you. You
• 40:22
  know, you could pay a fine, a stiff fine, and not go.
• 40:27
  So the threat of conscription was was there, and and it it existed,
• 40:35
  Like he says, the threat of conscription lurked behind every resort to the
• 40:39
  seemingly innocuous power to call out the militia. Right, but at the same
• 40:45
  time, it was still more democratic and voluntary than it is today. And
• 40:54
  yeah, people are mentioning saving Priyan Private Ryan in the in the chat,
• 41:00
  that is exactly the type of situation, right, all three of his brothers
• 41:02
  are gone, Suddenly he is now much more important to bring home. The
• 41:12
  military has that stipulation, we don't take all of the boys in a family.
• 41:17
  We don't take the only boy from family. And that does go back
• 41:22
  to the beginning that you don't because it used to be that families relied on
• 41:28
  their sons when you had the family farm, and most families grew a significant
• 41:37
  portion of their own food, or raised a significant portion of their own meat,
• 41:44
  or hunted for a significant portion of their own meat. They relied on
• 41:49
  the sons, just like they relied on the husband and father to provide these
• 41:53
  things once they got old enough to start doing that, which would be when
• 41:57
  they got old enough for military service, well for conscription into the military as
• 42:02
  soldiers. So enforcement of the military's coercive elements was sometimes lacks. There were
• 42:15
  hallowed restrictions upon employment of the militia. Draft. Colonial governments were not supposed
• 42:21
  to send drafted militiamen outside the colony. The Drafteese term of service was usually
• 42:25
  limited to three months. If they planned long offensive military expeditions, they relied
• 42:31
  on militia volunteers who specifically contracted for such expeditions. So you if you were
• 42:38
  going to leave the colony or you were going to do something for a long
• 42:40
  time for the military, they that was volunteer. They didn't just make you
• 42:47
  do that like they did with sending men to war during the twentieth century,
• 42:54
  where you would get drafted into the military and then you might be overseas until
• 42:59
  they could and you back. You might have a term of service, but
• 43:02
  you could be you know, your term of service could be extended, or
• 43:09
  if you got kidnapped by the other side, if you got captured by the
• 43:14
  other side, you know, they're not like they were necessarily going to go
• 43:16
  get you back. Yeah, So I don't know if I need to go
• 43:29
  through the rest of this. It say is there's differences in how the Northern
• 43:35
  and Southern colonies did this, But you know, he does go through and
• 43:43
  he mentions the volunteer component again. So later on colonial governments and successor state
• 43:50
  governments integrated them into general malicious systems. Volunteer units provided much of the cavalry,
• 43:57
  artillery, and elite infantry within the militia. Men could gain an exemption
• 44:01
  from the common militia by joining a volunteer unit, but many repained private fraternities
• 44:07
  with exclusive memberships. So again there were alternatives to being officially a part of
• 44:15
  the military, but you know, you kind of had. It wasn't just
• 44:21
  anybody could do that. So even in the seventeenth century it was there were
• 44:30
  still that coercive component. So, as he says, everything noted so far
• 44:39
  about the compulsory nature of colonial common militia is well known. Less common known
• 44:44
  is the fact that the common militia persisted without serious alteration through the Revolution.
• 44:50
  As the colonies made the revolutionary transition to states, they refurbished their militias to
• 44:54
  maintain better order fight the British and suppressed Tories. So were for people who
• 45:01
  aren't either American or British, Tories were loyalists to Britain in the colonies and
• 45:09
  they fought against the revolutionary colonists to remain part of the British Commonwealth. And
• 45:22
  I have some family members who are in Canada that live in Canada that are
• 45:30
  descendants of Tories that After the Revolutionary War, the Tories did not get treated
• 45:39
  very well for obvious reasons. And even if they even if they sort of
• 45:46
  reformed their opinions to well, now we're a country, so let's unite,
• 45:52
  they still there was a lot of conflict between people who had been pro revolution
• 45:59
  and people who had been to So it's definitely the need for military service to
• 46:12
  suppress that that. I don't want to say terrorism because it wouldn't be quite
• 46:19
  the level of terrorism, but I guess rabble rousing mischief was done quite a
• 46:24
  bit, and obviously there would would have also been fights, just conflict and
• 46:30
  fights between people. So the military was sort of the local police force at
• 46:35
  that time. So one of the things he's talking about here. During Virginia,
• 46:42
  during the spring of seventeen seventy five, the Patriot Committee increased the frequency
• 46:45
  of mandatory training days for every mail between sixteen and sixty to one per month.
• 46:52
  Compulsory militia preparations were far and more more widespread than blah blah blah.
• 47:00
  Then the famed contingents of minute men who volunteer to be ready at a moment's
• 47:04
  notice, So they were definitely maintaining a consistent force, and they were definitely
• 47:14
  you know, telling people, telling men in the the colonies and then later
• 47:20
  in the States, you will do this, this is required a few when
• 47:25
  this, oh go ahead, I was gonna say, I mean, you
• 47:30
  know it's it's one day a month. How how often how long do our
• 47:35
  you know, recruits go out when they when they draft these days they go
• 47:39
  I have no idea. They go into boot camp and they go into I
• 47:45
  think boot camp is like ten weeks. It's it's like the length of a
• 47:51
  course of study at university. Okay, I might actually be longer than that,
• 47:57
  although during the Vietnam War they shortened it at least six weeks. But
• 48:01
  uh, well, hm, they got desperate during the Vietnam War. Yeah,
• 48:08
  they were. They were allowing people into the military that were not allowed
• 48:12
  into the military, and then they started drafting previously because of you know,
• 48:16
  not being trustworthy or not being reliable physically or whatever. And then they also
• 48:22
  started drafting people that would have been exempt under you know, medical restriction or
• 48:29
  because they would have been considered not reliable. The the Alice's Restaurant routine that
• 48:37
  Arlo Guthrie does where he talks about going in uh to to uh register,
• 48:45
  after he's been after he's gotten drafted, and talking to the shrink and going
• 48:50
  I want to kill, kill, kill, kill, you know all that,
• 48:52
  and then and then they pendimental on him and said you're our boy.
• 48:59
  That was a common military on There were certain degrees of mental illness that the
• 49:02
  military would not accept prior to the Vietnam War that they they went ahead and
• 49:08
  said, okay, yeah, we'll we'll take you. You can be you
• 49:12
  can be a complete homicidal maniac. That's actually good for us, you know,
• 49:15
  go kill, and and that was that was acceptable. There was a
• 49:22
  there was a point during which they took people who were ineligible for military service
• 49:30
  due to their criminal history and said, well, actually we're going to consider
• 49:36
  your military service an active rehabilitation. So you can join the military and get
• 49:43
  get your slate clean by being there by being by being in then clean your
• 49:49
  slate all right right into the next life. Wash your slate in blood.
• 49:54
  Yeah, if you're lucky, it'll be somebody else's. Yeah. So they
• 50:00
  sent people who were too intellectually disabled to qualify for military service prior to the
• 50:07
  standards of the Vietnam War. They sent people who were too blind to be
• 50:15
  to qualify. Wow, Like, my dad did not get drafted, well,
• 50:23
  he did not get sent over. He he was. They tried to
• 50:30
  draft him when he was exempt, but he had tried to enlist prior to
• 50:36
  that, when he was young enough that he didn't really have the foresight.
• 50:40
  And this is the other thing, like they'll take young men who are of
• 50:45
  an age where they may not fully understand what they're getting themselves into. Right,
• 50:50
  he tried to enlist and they wouldn't take him because his eyesight was not
• 50:53
  good enough. His eyesight really was bad, like really bad. He went
• 51:01
  he memorized the eye test chart. So it's actually really funny story. If
• 51:09
  he memorized the eye test chart and he goes in and he reads it off
• 51:13
  for the the guy's like, wow, this is amazing, you know,
• 51:16
  and he's like he takes him outside and he asked him to read the license
• 51:22
  plate on a truck down the street, and my dad, without his glasses
• 51:25
  on, is looking around and he's like, what truck? What truck?
• 51:32
  So they kind of caught him out on that. He didn't get in.
• 51:36
  But then years later when they wanted to force him in, his eyesight was
• 51:42
  not a problem anymore. It's okay if you can't see. Ah. Yeah,
• 51:46
  so what if you need like two sets of coke bottles for your glasses?
• 51:52
  And when I tell you, I'm a multi generational nerd. My my,
• 51:58
  my grandfather, oh my outside of the family was an engineer. So
• 52:02
  anyway, but yeah, so it's very, very different. When the States
• 52:09
  put active military forces into the field. They even eventually fell back on militia
• 52:15
  drafts. Continental Army with military forces. The new National government was initially composed
• 52:20
  entirely of volunteers, but as the war dragged on, manpower shortages became acute.
• 52:25
  And this happens every time there is a war. Why obvious reason,
• 52:34
  Right, because men get killed despite monetary boundaries and land grants offered by both
• 52:46
  Continental Congress to the andy individual states. This happens, right because you can't
• 52:52
  pay dead people to come back from the grave. Right. Continental Army bid
• 52:58
  for recruits against the act forces of the thirteen state militias. So now you
• 53:04
  have the two I guess leaderships, the two governments within the United States competing
• 53:15
  for soldiers. Massachusetts began employing conscription in the early summer of seventeen seventy six.
• 53:24
  New Hampshire followed in seventeen seventy seven, the most remaining states fell in
• 53:30
  line upon recommendation of the Congress later that year. States used these drafts not
• 53:37
  just to man their own forces, but to also fill their quotas for the
• 53:39
  Continental Army. So when people tell you that there was no draft in the
• 53:47
  creation of the United States, they're bullshitting you. The fact that we have
• 53:57
  a government here to vote for, the fact that we have a United States
• 54:00
  of America happened on the blood of drafted men. Jesus. All right,
• 54:09
  but let's let's let's let's talk about the word men here because we're gonna switch
• 54:14
  stories now. So this story titled Child Soldiers of the Revolutionary War. And
• 54:21
  uh and this is kind of a PC title if you ask me, because
• 54:24
  I want you to look at that picture and find the girl in it.
• 54:30
  I can't see one anywhere. No, Now, that's not a photograph of
• 54:35
  actual it's a representation, obviously, because there was no photography. But this
• 54:40
  is this is what the reality was, right, think back, take a
• 54:47
  moment, thing, back to what you were doing at the age of seven,
• 54:52
  because or ten, I was in the first grade at seven mm hmm
• 54:58
  seven and I think I was in second Yeah, I was in the first
• 55:01
  grade. I had to start school until I was six, but uh,
• 55:06
  yeah I was. I was playing tag outside at recess. M like that.
• 55:13
  That's what I was doing at ten years old. I was in the
• 55:15
  fourth grade. Babies, It's just fucking babies at ten years old. When
• 55:27
  I was ten years old, the boys in my class were not bigger than
• 55:30
  me. They were not physically more muscle bound than I was. Yeah,
• 55:37
  there were there were things I could do in terms of athletic performance that none
• 55:46
  of the boys I knew could do. And even when I got older,
• 55:52
  obviously the acrobatic stuff I could do like nobody else I knew could do that,
• 55:57
  So boys or girls until I met an actual gymnast when I was sent
• 56:04
  junior high. But at ten years old, I was there was There was
• 56:08
  one boy in our class that was bigger than the other boys, but aside
• 56:14
  from him, everybody else we all pretty much had the same body types.
• 56:20
  We had not none of us had hit puberty yet. Right, my brother
• 56:27
  was stronger than me. But yeah, I like that. That was at
• 56:34
  at ten years old. Can you imagine at ten years old having a responsibility
• 56:38
  as big as military service put on you fucking way, no way. I
• 56:43
  didn't even like doing the dishes. So at the ten year yeah, I
• 56:49
  know, well at ten years old. Let's see, when I was ten
• 56:52
  years old, my mom broke her hand and then she was in we were
• 56:55
  in a bad car accident together and she was really laid up. So I
• 57:00
  debuted a lot of housework when I was ten years old. But I don't
• 57:05
  think it was like none of my classmates thought that was normal, except the
• 57:08
  one that lived on a farm, and like she thought that was pretty normal.
• 57:15
  So at the tender age of seven, Nathan Foutrell was the youngest drummer
• 57:19
  so far identified in a revolutionary war. He served with the North Carolina Militia.
• 57:27
  Richard Lord Jones, at the age of ten, was a fifer in
• 57:30
  the Connecticut Militia. He was the youngest known enlisted soldier in the terrible Fight
• 57:36
  for Independence. These interesting facts were shared by Cohen Daniels are Cohen Daniels,
• 57:44
  fourteen, State President of the Tennessee Society Children of the American Revolution, and
• 57:52
  his brother Ivan Daniels, sixteen, National Vice President of the Mid Southern Region
• 58:01
  and Honorary State President of for the Tea scar. At the September meeting of
• 58:07
  the Martha Dandridge Washington Chapter National Society Daughters of the American Revolution, Cohen spoke
• 58:17
  on the topic America's most Forgotten Veterans Children. The current state project for the
• 58:23
  TEA SCAR is titled Stitching History Together. This is this article, by the
• 58:28
  way, is not recent article if I remember it. This is old.
• 58:31
  No, this is this is recent. This is more recent than I thought.
• 58:36
  This was published last year. So this is there's there's another article that
• 58:40
  I have read about this that I don't remember as much mention of the organizations,
• 58:45
  but there are. There was a mention of TEESCAR, So they do.
• 58:53
  TESCAR does some some reenactment, and they do like that. Not not
• 59:00
  so much LARPing as display of this is what it looked like for for boys
• 59:07
  to be soldiers. But I want to skip a lot of the organizational description
• 59:15
  and get to here we go. Quite a number of according to Cohen,
• 59:21
  quite a number of child soldiers served in the Revolutionary War, often in the
• 59:27
  capacities of Feiffer, Drummer and Bugler. Right. And this is something that
• 59:31
  that got that goes back to if you look at British and the British Commonwealth
• 59:42
  militias. You saw a similar use of boys in the military. Uh And
• 59:47
  and that also goes back in Scotland as well to the bagpiper being young and
• 59:57
  the bagpiper had a pretty heavy job. And the drum and the fifers and
• 1:00:00
  the buglers. They didn't just play music. They weren't just like the bar
• 1:00:05
  trying to encourage everybody. There were particular series of notes and beats and you
• 1:00:15
  know, tones and so on that would would be marching orders. If you
• 1:00:20
  hear this, you do this. So they were not just there to boost
• 1:00:27
  morale. They actually were essential to the performance of the military. And because
• 1:00:34
  they were essential to the performance of the military, they were targets for the
• 1:00:43
  opposing military. Some also filled the ranks as spies, messengers, couriers,
• 1:01:00
  patrol and of course fighting soldiers and sailors. Indian patrol. Yes, because
• 1:01:07
  you have to understand during the Revolutionary War there were Indian tribes that that that
• 1:01:15
  joined with the British to keep the colonists from gaining their independence. Oh okay,
• 1:01:22
  yep okay. And it's it's not the first uh time. I mean
• 1:01:29
  the Seven Years War is the part of the Seven Years war that took place
• 1:01:34
  in the Americas is known as the French and Indian War. Okay, uh
• 1:01:40
  so, yeah, like you had, And there were there were tribes on
• 1:01:45
  both sides of that, and there were tribes on both sides of the Revolutionary
• 1:01:49
  War. There were tribes that thought if they sided with the colonists that they
• 1:01:54
  would be treated better than the British were treating them. And then there were
• 1:01:58
  tribes that expected the colonists to betray the Native Americans. And you know,
• 1:02:02
  if you look at history, the history of how the American government treated the
• 1:02:07
  tribes, I can't say that the tribes who cited were with the British were
• 1:02:13
  wrong, right, they lost, but they were not wrong. They were
• 1:02:19
  going to be betrayed. They got betrayed, right, and there was already
• 1:02:23
  a pattern there for them to make a note of. So it wasn't like
• 1:02:29
  they were just guessing. Yeah, but yeah, so they did, you
• 1:02:37
  know. And all of these roles, like a spy may get executed upon
• 1:02:43
  being found being caught right, or killed fighting when they get caught. Messengers
• 1:02:52
  Messengers carry marching orders, they carry information about needs for supplies. Their role
• 1:03:00
  is absolutely vital, and killing a messenger getting a messenger out of commission can
• 1:03:07
  cripple a military action. You know, it can cripple a military effort and
• 1:03:15
  cost an entire side the war. And of course Indian patrol if if you
• 1:03:27
  know, they're reporting back on the activities of tribes that are opposed to the
• 1:03:31
  colonial fighters and they get caught, they're going to get killed. So these
• 1:03:38
  were boys as young as seven years old who were risking their lives doing jobs
• 1:03:46
  for the military. And then of course there were also young soldiers that were
• 1:03:54
  fighting, and young soldiers that were on ships. Military musicians, it just
• 1:04:02
  explains here played an integral role in the battlefield. Child soldiers often worked on
• 1:04:11
  cannon crews called matross crews to assist in firing the cannons and carry water to
• 1:04:15
  cool the cannons and slake the thirst of cannoneers. They provided communication from officers
• 1:04:24
  to fighting men. Their instruments signaled attack and retreat. The success of the
• 1:04:30
  fighting men could hinge on the skills of the musicians. So this this was
• 1:04:35
  no small role. So you have here's this list that of boys that he's
• 1:04:44
  described here. The TESCAR has been involved in research to identify as many child
• 1:04:54
  soldiers as possible and collect information into a database so that they can honor these
• 1:05:00
  boys for what they did. Some of the names shared by Cohen and Ivan
• 1:05:05
  include Daniel Applegate, thirteen Pfeiffer at the Surrender of Yorktown. William Cross,
• 1:05:13
  who began serving as a soldier at fifteen, later served at the Battle of
• 1:05:17
  King's Mountain. Fiske durhand ten enlisted with his brother as a drummer in the
• 1:05:25
  Connecticut Infantry in seventeen seventy six. So we have one girl here, I'm
• 1:05:31
  pretty sure, possibly Elicia Garland. This still actually could be Elijah, and
• 1:05:38
  it could be a boy. So thirteen Piffer from North Carolina who was with
• 1:05:45
  George Washington at Valley Forge. James Gillies fourteen bugler for the American General lighthorse
• 1:05:55
  Henry Lee fourteen. Right, that's a eighth grader or a freshman in high
• 1:06:03
  school. M m R. Henry or Harry Lee. Ur fought with Harry
• 1:06:11
  Lee. Gillies was killed by the sword of one of the British of one
• 1:06:15
  of British Colonel Gosh, darn it, I'm gonna have to increase the size
• 1:06:21
  of this text. Guys, I'm sorry. Speaking of being blind. It's
• 1:06:29
  the font. There we go Banister Charleson's dragoons. I could not tell what
• 1:06:35
  the S was until I increased the size of the text because on my screen
• 1:06:41
  it's that because it's up against the t, it doesn't show the whole S.
• 1:06:47
  It's got like a tiny little bit of it's missing, all right,
• 1:06:49
  So then we have moralists. And actually I'm pretty sure that's Elijah not Alicia,
• 1:06:59
  because I it. I doubt that they had a girl do that that
• 1:07:03
  job, not that there were not female participants. Right. Presley Larkins twelve
• 1:07:12
  recruiter for Virginia Forces and a fifer having After having smallpox, he went blind.
• 1:07:18
  However, his vision was restored. And this is another thing. In
• 1:07:21
  the Revolutionary War, smallpox was rife. They didn't have any way to treat
• 1:07:28
  it other than basically you rested and they tried to manage your fever like there
• 1:07:35
  weren't There weren't antibiotics, there weren't anti virals. There were just drugs to
• 1:07:41
  help you treat the overt symptoms, and most of them were herbal remedies.
• 1:07:47
  So he was fortunate. Not everybody who went blind as a result of viruses
• 1:07:55
  like smallpox regained their vision. In fact, there is if I remember right,
• 1:08:03
  there was the it's It was assumed that Helen Keller's blindness was caused by
• 1:08:08
  virus as well. And I want to say scarlet fever, but I might
• 1:08:14
  be wrong. But various various viruses like that that would attack your system.
• 1:08:20
  If your fever got too high, you get a brain damage from it that
• 1:08:24
  would cause you to go permanently blind. You get nerve damage as well outside
• 1:08:28
  the brain. Uh and uh, you also had like you also had things
• 1:08:36
  that could happen to the structure of the eye, retinal detachment and stuff like
• 1:08:42
  that that can happen do to due to inflammation and a number of different factors.
• 1:08:48
  So you you just had If you recovered your vision like that, you
• 1:08:53
  were very lucky. When he recovered his vision, he went he returned to
• 1:08:57
  duty into the War of eighteen twelve. Wow William Prince thirteen was the personal
• 1:09:06
  fifer for Colonel John Sevier and fought at the Battle of King's Mountain. According
• 1:09:15
  to oral history, Cornelius Wilson eleven had his lip cut so badly by a
• 1:09:20
  British soldier's sword that he could no longer play the fife. So he became
• 1:09:27
  a drummer and continued to serve. Somebody actually attacked the boy with a sword,
• 1:09:41
  Thank God. William Addison was thirteen when he joined the militia in fourteen
• 1:09:46
  when he was wounded in the Battle of Utah Springs. His payment for that
• 1:09:53
  service is noted in the pay bank of Brigadier journal Francis Marion, better known
• 1:09:58
  as the brilliant and shrewd swamp Fox. Robert Harris fifteen assisted a gunner by
• 1:10:05
  loading, firing, and sponging out the cannon. Joshua Pewitt thirteen John Vaughn
• 1:10:12
  fifteen were members of the Matross crew, which used to use to stick to
• 1:10:16
  pull the debris from the old charge out of a cannon so a new charge
• 1:10:20
  could be loaded, which means they had to get in front of the cannon.
• 1:10:28
  John McAllister began to serve at thirteen and was promoted to sergeant at fifteen.
• 1:10:34
  From what fifteen year olds when I was in school couldn't get a permit
• 1:10:43
  until six months before their sixteenth birthday to drive a car, right, so
• 1:10:48
  prior to that you had not hit your first sign of adulthood. Fifteen year
• 1:10:58
  old couldn't take someone out on a date without relying on someone else for transportation.
• 1:11:02
  Yeah, fifteen year old will be a freshman or a sophomore in high
• 1:11:05
  school. A fifteen year old looks like a kid. At least a fifteen
• 1:11:11
  year old looks like a kid to me. But yeah, Sergeant at fifteen.
• 1:11:18
  Philip Russell fifteen was a teamster and a soldier in Virginia, charged with
• 1:11:24
  driving supplies which again would make him a target that included ammunition. All right,
• 1:11:33
  so that would really make him a target. Oh yeah, through the
• 1:11:39
  back country while guarding it from the British and the Indians. Magnus Tullock thirteen
• 1:11:45
  was a fifer who later became a fighter and saw five years of combat.
• 1:11:51
  He is buried at the in the Builders Creek Church Graveyard in Bluant County,
• 1:11:58
  Tennessee on April twelfth, twenty twenty three. The t Scar family are formally
• 1:12:02
  marked his grave. The Justice brothers, Simon eleven and John fourteen were captured
• 1:12:09
  by the British in the ninety sixth District in South Carolina, but were later
• 1:12:14
  released. In those days, according to Ivan, boys were considered to be
• 1:12:17
  adults at the age of ten. God damn it all right, we hear
• 1:12:28
  all about child marriage and girls. Yeah, right, under British common law.
• 1:12:36
  Under English law, even during the thirteenth century, the age of consent
• 1:12:43
  for girls was thirteen, three years older than for boys to be considered adults.
• 1:12:51
  Oh my god, sticks gives us two dollars And mentions about normal school?
• 1:13:02
  Was there a normal school prom, yearbook, glee club? I'm assuming
• 1:13:09
  I don't know. No, they're the normal school was only like six weeks
• 1:13:12
  long. So they would have just had six weeks of uh, sitting in
• 1:13:15
  a classroom, studying and going home and studying and then taking tests and proceeding
• 1:13:21
  on to the next lesson, and then they would they would be done.
• 1:13:26
  They might have a graduation ceremony, but at the end of it they got
• 1:13:29
  a certificate. So uh yeah, let's see, so adults. At the
• 1:13:42
  age of ten, James Servier Sevier, a son of frontier soldier and statesman
• 1:13:48
  Colonel John Sevier, saw actually, Sevier, i'm cnn r in there where
• 1:13:53
  there isn't one, fought at the Battle of King's Mountain and was given the
• 1:14:00
  task of counting the wounded. So here this is a this is a boy
• 1:14:03
  that had to actually go around the wounded in a battle like that would have
• 1:14:11
  been hit with musket balls. When you get shot with a bullet, it
• 1:14:16
  goes in and it goes out, and it's it's usually unless it's you know,
• 1:14:26
  like a weaker type of caliber, you're going to see a straight line
• 1:14:31
  front to back, it goes out or back to front wherever you're shot.
• 1:14:36
  But a musketball bounched around inside, broke bones, it tore through people.
• 1:14:45
  The exit wound would have been bigger. People would have been in agony.
• 1:14:50
  The men, the men that they ran across that were injured could have been
• 1:14:55
  These would have been men who were actively dying or men who were in just
• 1:15:01
  absolute states of torture. Not that getting shot today as a cakewalker or anything,
• 1:15:06
  but it was even worse then. And that's that's the men that were
• 1:15:12
  shot. No, they're there. They were fought with muskets and swords or
• 1:15:23
  you know, you also had men that were hit with cannonballs. You had
• 1:15:27
  men that were hit with debris from when cannonballs hit structures and and landscapes and
• 1:15:32
  and through rocks and things in the air. There would have been people with
• 1:15:36
  with horrific injuries that these boys would have been identifying m So after the this
• 1:15:50
  this organization makes this presentation. You know, the boys actually performed a number
• 1:15:58
  of songs that were played in their revolutionary war. And this is this is
• 1:16:01
  a really neat organization that that honors children who who were you know, forced
• 1:16:11
  to fight in war, who were in that situation. Nobody asked them and
• 1:16:18
  of course if they did, these boys wouldn't have known what they were getting
• 1:16:25
  into. Yeah, so this is this is basically uh, you know,
• 1:16:33
  you understand for males, not only was their obligation, but that obligation included
• 1:16:42
  roles that that were life risking, horrifying. These boys would have come out
• 1:16:49
  of this if they came out of it alive, they would have come out
• 1:16:53
  of it with PTSD. Their whole lives would have been changed. Right.
• 1:17:00
  So we when we look at that and we look at the draft, we
• 1:17:03
  understand the creation of the system that allows us the freedom to be governed with
• 1:17:13
  consent is it's entirely built in blocks of blood, in the blood of men
• 1:17:24
  and the blood of boys. So when we talk about the draft today,
• 1:17:30
  you know, we're talking about a long historical tradition from which women have been
• 1:17:36
  exempt. And when we talk about the connection of voting rights to that.
• 1:17:41
  We are talking about a long and historical relationship between the public and the government
• 1:17:48
  that has been fueled by the blood of men and boys. But are women
• 1:18:00
  useless in that? Do we have an excuse as a society for saying,
• 1:18:05
  well, women, women can vote, but they don't have to serve?
• 1:18:11
  And previous episodes we've discussed that, haven't we. Yeah, I believe so.
• 1:18:17
  The episode where we talked about the strength of women in neolithic times,
• 1:18:23
  for instance, and the existence of women warriors prior to modern times kind of
• 1:18:30
  indicates that maybe there are things women can do, right, Yeah, absolutely
• 1:18:36
  so in the Revolutionary War, there were women doing things that you wouldn't expect
• 1:18:46
  necessarily women to do. Now, this isn't to say that we're going to
• 1:18:55
  say, oh, women should be drafted and should be fighting on the front
• 1:18:58
  lines beside men, and men should be really eying on women to have their
• 1:19:00
  backs. And yeah, we know that that wouldn't be necessarily the best thing
• 1:19:05
  for men, but it shouldn't be a get out of responsibility free card for
• 1:19:10
  women. Yeah, so we're gonna skip down to all right, I had
• 1:19:32
  this, I must have jumped back up. It must have reloaded, all
• 1:19:36
  right, So yeah. Women often followed their husbands in the Continental army.
• 1:19:46
  This is where it was. Women often followed their husbands in the Continental army.
• 1:19:50
  These women, known as camp followers, often tended to the domestic side
• 1:19:57
  of army organization, washing, cooking, mending clothes, providing medical help when
• 1:20:02
  necessary. Sometimes they were flung into the vortexa battle. Such was the case
• 1:20:10
  of Mary Ludwig Hayes, better known as Molly Pitcher, who earned fame at
• 1:20:15
  the Battle of Monmouth. I think I'm pronouncing that right in seventeen seventy eight.
• 1:20:20
  Hayes first brought soldiers water from a local well to quench their thirst on
• 1:20:25
  an extremely hot and humid day, and then replaced her husband her wounded husband
• 1:20:31
  at his artillery piece, firing at the oncoming British. In a similar vein,
• 1:20:40
  Margaret Corbin was severely wounded during the British assault on Fort Washington in November
• 1:20:45
  seventeen seventy six, and left for dead alongside her husband, also an artilleryman,
• 1:20:50
  until she was attended by a physician. She lived, though her wounds
• 1:20:55
  left her permanently disabled. Recalls her as the first American female to receive a
• 1:21:01
  soldier's lifetime pension. After the war, Phyllis Wheatley, and enslaved African American
• 1:21:10
  living in Boston, took up the pen and wrote poetry, becoming one of
• 1:21:14
  the first published female authors in America and the first African American woman to be
• 1:21:17
  published. Her seventeen seventy three collection Poems on various subjects, religious and moral,
• 1:21:25
  was popular on both sides of the Atlantic. Her poems focused on patriotism
• 1:21:30
  and human virtues. She even wrote a poem about George Washington to His Excellency,
• 1:21:34
  George Washington in seventeen seventy five. So various things that women can do,
• 1:21:44
  Like we see men employed in the military in everything from these domestic roles
• 1:21:51
  to the propaganda department to you know, like they might not call it that,
• 1:21:57
  but basically getting people to agree with the war and intimidating the other side.
• 1:22:12
  These are not things that women can't do. New York teenager Sybil Luttington
• 1:22:17
  was the female equivalent of Paul Revere, though she rode twice as far as
• 1:22:23
  Paul Revere, and in a driving rainstorm in April seventeen seventy seven, her
• 1:22:28
  ride took her through Putnam in Duchess Counties, New York, where she roused
• 1:22:32
  local militia to fight a British force that had attacked nearby Danbury, Connecticut.
• 1:22:39
  The Daughters of the American Revolution erected in a heroic equestrian statue to Luddington in
• 1:22:45
  Carmel, New York. We're gonna skip Betsy Ross because there's some there's some
• 1:22:57
  belief that she actually did what she you know, she was reputed to do.
• 1:23:01
  There's also some beliefs that she didn't. Not really something that I'm gonna
• 1:23:10
  I don't want to get into that debate, but there's those were just some
• 1:23:15
  individual women. There are women who were spies in the Revolutionary War, but
• 1:23:20
  for the most part, aside from the few women that there was also a
• 1:23:26
  woman who disguised herself as a man and enlisted and fought, and she fought
• 1:23:33
  until she was injured badly enough that she couldn't get out of receiving treatment from
• 1:23:40
  a physician, at which point she was identified by the physician as a woman,
• 1:23:45
  and she was honorably discharged. But then she had to fight for her
• 1:23:47
  pension because she wasn't supposed to be in the military, because she was a
• 1:23:51
  woman, but she was not. She was taller than the men. She
• 1:23:59
  pretended to be a teenager, and she actually fought for quite some time,
• 1:24:04
  so it wasn't almost immediately. She had several other injuries prior to that one.
• 1:24:10
  I don't remember if it was in this article or another one that I
• 1:24:14
  read about her, but she she didn't seek treatment for injuries because she knew
• 1:24:19
  she would be identified. But eventually the injury that she had required a doctor's
• 1:24:26
  care and there wasn't anything she could do about it. And eventually she did,
• 1:24:30
  by the way, get her pension, So the government did make it
• 1:24:33
  right with her. But mostly what women did was a little different. Wives
• 1:24:41
  of the as wives of the common soldier often followed the Continental Army, so
• 1:24:45
  too did the wives of general officers. Let's see artillery. The Continental Army's
• 1:24:55
  artillery commander married the vivacious and popular Bostonian Lucy Flucker. There would be a
• 1:25:02
  ton of jokes I like's gonna be oh my god, So if you don't,
• 1:25:12
  if you're not familiar with original, the original cast is Saturday. But
• 1:25:18
  in any case, this woman deserves better than that. So the daughter of
• 1:25:23
  bust Undian loyalists once she and Henry were married, all ties between her and
• 1:25:28
  her family were cut. She married a revolutionary. That was it right.
• 1:25:34
  Henry and Lucy were devoted to one another, and she would join him whenever
• 1:25:39
  she could while he was on campaign she encouraged. She endured the bitter encampment
• 1:25:44
  at Valley Forge and became fast friends with a wife of General Nathaniel Greene,
• 1:25:49
  the equally popular Kitty. George Washington's wife, Marie Curtis, spent every winter
• 1:25:57
  with her husband whenever the army was camp. So even women who could have
• 1:26:04
  on the basis of being you know, being married to officers, so being
• 1:26:12
  above, they still went. And you think about it, You're in a
• 1:26:17
  situation where your partner, your husband, the person that you love the most
• 1:26:23
  in the world, is going to another part of your country to defend your
• 1:26:30
  country, and you don't know if you'll ever see him again when he leaves,
• 1:26:36
  and your choices are to sit back and let that happen, or to
• 1:26:41
  go and be close by to where he's going to be and do everything you
• 1:26:45
  can to provide care and back up as far as doing jobs and tasks that
• 1:26:55
  the soldiers don't have time to do for themselves. Or don't know how to
• 1:27:00
  do for themselves, wouldn't be able to do for themselves as well, for
• 1:27:04
  instance, repairing uniforms and such were those Sewing was pretty much the purview of
• 1:27:11
  women, so ordinary women also endured the horrors of the battlefield when those fights
• 1:27:21
  came to their doorstep. Sally Kellogg of Vermont and her family escaped the gods
• 1:27:28
  of war in seventeen seventy six when the War for Independence found its way into
• 1:27:33
  the northern reaches of Upstate New York and Benedict Arnold's makeshift fleet and the Navy.
• 1:27:41
  The British Navy clashed on Lake Champlain during the Battle of Alcour Island.
• 1:27:47
  As the Kellogg family made good its escape by water, Sally's family fell in
• 1:27:51
  between Arnold's fleet and the British fleet. She later recalled as the family rode
• 1:27:57
  to safety, the exchange of on fire between the ships could be seen and
• 1:28:01
  heard, so they're right in the middle of it. So women had to
• 1:28:08
  deal with the fact that the war was around them, so they couldn't just
• 1:28:13
  sit around and like, oh, I'm not involved here. Then there was
• 1:28:18
  let's see if it's I don't know if it's in this article. I think
• 1:28:21
  it's the other one. Yeah, so I have two articles here, the
• 1:28:32
  daily life of a soldier versus the daily life of women in war and the
• 1:28:38
  daily life of a soldier is described as here we go. Daily life defined
• 1:28:49
  by routine, fatigue, and preparation for battle. The soldier marched all day,
• 1:28:58
  had to carry a heavy low. He had in addition to his weapon,
• 1:29:05
  all of his bedding, his ammunition, any personal items he took with
• 1:29:11
  him. If he was lucky, he had an extra blanket, but of
• 1:29:15
  course, you know how much a blanket weighs, especially if it's a wool
• 1:29:18
  blanket. In camp, soldier usually spent eight hours or more practicing military drills
• 1:29:25
  and doing labor necessary for the maintenance of the army. They forged for food.
• 1:29:30
  They had to do. They had to hunt in order to supplement their
• 1:29:33
  rations. They wouldn't have had, you know, like we have now where
• 1:29:38
  the military stores up a lot of food and there's a system for making sure
• 1:29:43
  that the soldiers have enough food. They had to uh chop firewood, They
• 1:29:51
  had to maintain the the area that they lived in. They had to they
• 1:29:58
  had guard duty. They cooked together, you know, and then if they
• 1:30:02
  had downtime, and they weren't totally beat. They would play cards, marbles,
• 1:30:11
  world ice. But they might have guard duty at night, so that
• 1:30:19
  was outside of the fighting, right, that's their daily life. In addition
• 1:30:23
  to the fact that they would be shot at, that they would have cannons
• 1:30:27
  fired at them, that they would be attacked with swords, that they would
• 1:30:30
  be out in all kinds of weather, they would be completely exposed to the
• 1:30:34
  weather, that they would be responsible for killing people. Yeah, so some
• 1:30:48
  of the women had to flee their homes. But in terms of what women
• 1:30:55
  actually did as part of the war effort, there were things like, because
• 1:31:02
  the men were drafted, you had areas where there weren't enough men to do
• 1:31:10
  the work at home that men normally did, so some women took over those
• 1:31:15
  roles. What did they call themselves, I'm not sure if it's in here
• 1:31:26
  or not. Well, they Yeah, there was a name like substitute husbands.
• 1:31:32
  It's not the right name. But and then of course many chose to
• 1:31:35
  follow a male relative to the army and provide the services I described before,
• 1:31:41
  doing laundry or nursing, and they did get paid and they did get fed.
• 1:31:50
  Here we go, there's the woman's name was Deborah Samson that dressed in
• 1:31:55
  men's clothes and enlisted in the fourth Massachusetts Regiment of the Continental Army under the
• 1:32:00
  Robert Shirtliffe. First, she tried once and got busted, and then she
• 1:32:06
  did it again, Taller than the average soldier, claimed she was a teenager
• 1:32:11
  to avoid questions. She suffered multiple wounds, but refused to go to the
• 1:32:15
  doctor out of fear he would discover her secret. However, when she was
• 1:32:19
  hospitalized, it was an illness not an injury. So when she was hospitalized
• 1:32:25
  for an illness, a doctor identified Samson as female. Soon after, she
• 1:32:28
  was honorably discharged from the Army, even though she had broken the rules to
• 1:32:33
  be there. She went home to Massachusetts married. She did not forget her
• 1:32:42
  experiences and successfully petitioned the state government to pay for pay owed to her as
• 1:32:47
  a soldier that she had not received because she had been discovered to be a
• 1:32:51
  woman. In seventeen ninety seven, she became a minor celebrity when a book
• 1:32:56
  about her time in the Army, The Female Review, was printed. She
• 1:33:00
  went on a speaking to her and performed military exercises on stage, and she
• 1:33:03
  sought a veteran's pension and succeeded with the help of Paul Revere. So this
• 1:33:12
  was pretty much the one woman who enlisted and fought in the Revolutionary Army.
• 1:33:19
  But what women normally did again, sometimes they did help on the battlefield if
• 1:33:27
  they were in that situation where they were there in the support role, and
• 1:33:31
  circumstances pretty much made that the made that necessary that that's what they did,
• 1:33:40
  because when you are in an emergency situation, you deal with the emergency at
• 1:33:43
  hand, not what people are going to think about it later. So let's
• 1:33:53
  see if we have yeah, camp followers before the moments that brought them fame
• 1:34:01
  on the battlefield. Both Margaret Corbin and Mary Hayes had traveled with the army
• 1:34:06
  as camp followers. Both the Continental and British Army included thousands of women and
• 1:34:14
  children. Camp followers traditionally wives and children and soldiers. Statistics show that for
• 1:34:19
  the American Army there was at least one woman to every twenty four soldiers.
• 1:34:25
  For the Hessians, the German soldiers who served alongside the British Army, the
• 1:34:30
  ratio is one to fifteen. For the British Army itself, the ratio at
• 1:34:32
  one point was one woman to every eight soldiers. Wow, So now I
• 1:34:42
  know Night Motorcyclists isn't trusting this because women keep revising history. But this isn't
• 1:34:45
  new information like this is information that has been known since the time of the
• 1:34:51
  war itself. So again these are this is as I discussed this. We're
• 1:35:03
  not talking about women in the Revolutionary War because women are something special and great,
• 1:35:15
  or that it in any way takes away from what the men did.
• 1:35:20
  They have to understand the point of this is that when we hear that it's
• 1:35:27
  unfair to suggest that women should be as responsible for a draft as men are,
• 1:35:33
  that should either be drafting both sexes or neither, you can look at
• 1:35:40
  history and prove that it is actually perfectly fair to conscript both sexes instead of
• 1:35:49
  just one, or to exempt both sexes because they're even. Even if you
• 1:35:55
  don't conscript women to fight on the front lines, you can conscript women to
• 1:36:00
  do jobs for the military. Uh. Quick, silver tongue says, no
• 1:36:06
  Mike today. No. Unfortunately, Mike is visiting family, so he's not
• 1:36:11
  able to be here. So mhm, he will be back next week.
• 1:36:19
  Yes, he will be back next week. But yeah, so you look
• 1:36:24
  at this, We're still it is still men's blood that paid the price for
• 1:36:31
  this revolution, just like every revolution, and it is still men and boys
• 1:36:39
  who fought the battles, who won freedom, and who went into it either
• 1:36:48
  knowing or not knowing the risks. But that does not exempt women from responsibility
• 1:36:57
  for being a part of the defensive their country. Even like, if you
• 1:37:01
  look at someone like me, right, my health has always been shit.
• 1:37:08
  It's never been good. At its best, it was still not as good
• 1:37:15
  as most of the people around me. But there were things I could do.
• 1:37:21
  I worked as a nurse's aid, I I've worked as a baker,
• 1:37:30
  and I've worked as a cook. It is it would be unfair to say
• 1:37:40
  that if a military conflict were to happen on American soil and men were fighting,
• 1:37:49
  and the fourteen percent of the military that our women were fighting, even
• 1:37:55
  though I might not be qualified to do what they are doing, neither in
• 1:38:00
  terms of physical aptitude, physical capabilities, or competence with weapons and tactics,
• 1:38:09
  it would be unfair for me to sit on my ass and say, well,
• 1:38:12
  there's nothing I can do right, because their damn well is stuff I
• 1:38:15
  could do right. And that is the point. Yeah, these women,
• 1:38:24
  even though they weren't the ones going out and facing musket fire and cannon fire
• 1:38:31
  for the most part, like there were some names you know that that definitely
• 1:38:35
  did. But for the most part, what these women were doing was taking
• 1:38:42
  some of the other burden off of these men that would have been on them
• 1:38:46
  so that they could focus on coming back alive mm hm. And they had
• 1:38:56
  rules right to get that pay to be part of a to be a camp
• 1:39:00
  follower. These women and children performed a variety of duties. There weren't just
• 1:39:04
  lightweight things, right you could just throw things in a washing machine. So
• 1:39:10
  they're when they're laundering soldiers uniforms, you're talking about boiling water and you know,
• 1:39:16
  mixing it with cold water so that you have hot water, you know,
• 1:39:20
  or washing in ice cold water. You're talking about carrying water in big
• 1:39:29
  buckets because they didn't exactly have plumbing out there. They didn't have cisterns,
• 1:39:34
  they didn't have anything that, so they they're tote heavy buckets. Uh there.
• 1:39:40
  When they washed that laundry, they're sticking a washboard down into that water
• 1:39:45
  and plunging their hand down in over and over again to rub the laundry on
• 1:39:48
  the washboard. To get the stains out, they're supplod yep, the blood
• 1:39:55
  they're sewing, they're cooking, they're making. Were that the soldiers had the
• 1:40:02
  things they need. And as it says here, since soldiers did not often
• 1:40:06
  have time to clean their bodies, they didn't get to bathe, especially in
• 1:40:10
  the wintertime. Having laundered uniforms helped to keep soldiers cleaner and healthier than they
• 1:40:16
  otherwise might have been, and it boosted morale because it helped them look they
• 1:40:21
  they felt like soldiers, they looked professional. But even more important than that
• 1:40:28
  was the nursing right because they were going to come back wounded, and there
• 1:40:33
  aren't at that point in time. There's not a bunch of extra men and
• 1:40:40
  extra boys that could be that could do this right. They're suffering from either
• 1:40:48
  they're too young or too old, too infirm. Where they're they're suffering from
• 1:40:53
  injuries, they're suffering from diseases smallpox. Like night motorcyclists mentioned you have if
• 1:41:03
  they're not in battle, it's because they're disabled completely in terms of doing these
• 1:41:11
  things. So if you had, if you wanted people to apply bandages and
• 1:41:17
  people to bring them food and water when they're injured, people to basically play
• 1:41:26
  the support role. When military doctors had to amputate limbs and you had women,
• 1:41:32
  you had to have women there. Camp followers nursed the wounded and cared
• 1:41:39
  for the sick, working alongside the few army doctors. They served as merchants
• 1:41:44
  called settlers, so they went and got supplies and then sold them back.
• 1:41:48
  They were basically the canteen. Others were middlemen who purchased goods and sold them
• 1:41:57
  to soldiers. Camp followers supported the me by repairing clothing and other fabric goods,
• 1:42:01
  and tents were made out of fabric, carrying supplies, cooking food.
• 1:42:11
  They were so critical to the functioning of each army that they were considered a
• 1:42:15
  formal part of the armies and were issued issued food rations and pay for their
• 1:42:18
  work. So when you know, we go back to the beginning of the
• 1:42:28
  show, like these women would have slapped the shit out of the women that
• 1:42:34
  I talked to today on Twitter. Oh my god, Yes, they would
• 1:42:39
  have. I'd love to see that. Oh my god. Not only would
• 1:42:46
  they, the women today couldn't wouldn't last a day in these women's shoes.
• 1:42:51
  Yeah, impossible. No, Like, will you talk about what how women
• 1:43:00
  should be? What women should do. What is the ideal character of a
• 1:43:03
  woman. In my opinion, the ideal character of a woman is somebody who
• 1:43:11
  when she sees that something like this is happening in her community, she looks,
• 1:43:18
  doesn't doesn't step up and say, well, just because I'm a woman
• 1:43:21
  doesn't mean I can't do this or that and you have to let me.
• 1:43:28
  She looks for how she can serve, even if it's not glorious. Right,
• 1:43:35
  And I watched my grandmother be that woman and my mother be that woman
• 1:43:41
  throughout my life, throughout my knowing them in their lives, and that's how
• 1:43:48
  I learned how to be a woman. Right. A woman should not look
• 1:43:58
  at life in turns terms of everything men have. I deserve. Also,
• 1:44:05
  yeah, just because I exist, should be looking at life in terms of
• 1:44:16
  everything men do to earn what they have. There's an equivalent. There's a
• 1:44:23
  way for me to earn what I have to mhm. It doesn't have to
• 1:44:29
  be the same. It doesn't have to be as pretty or ugly, it
• 1:44:35
  doesn't have to be as deserving of what men go through. And more women
• 1:44:46
  don't even understand. For the most part, I think the horror of knowing
• 1:44:53
  that something might ripe through your flesh and kill you because you are where you
• 1:44:58
  are, doing what you're doing, and then going and doing it anyway is
• 1:45:03
  not something that women ever really have to confront and I can. I'm betting
• 1:45:09
  you that there are gonna be feminist chicks in the comments going pregnancy and bullshit,
• 1:45:16
  right, bull fucking shit. Right. You can't compare pregnancy to a
• 1:45:20
  musket ball or a bullet or cannonball, a sword, a knife. But
• 1:45:28
  Hannah, but Hannah, but Hannah. Some women die during pregnancy, don't
• 1:45:33
  you know how dangerous it is for a bullet? Also, pregnancy is voluntary.
• 1:45:41
  Women don't like to hear that either, But pregnancy from consensual sex is
• 1:45:46
  voluntary. You have a bunch of tools to stop that. So I don't
• 1:45:53
  even want to hear it. Right, But yeah, at night, motorcyclist
• 1:46:00
  says, women claim they are carrying a cannon ball in them. Well,
• 1:46:04
  I don't know how much a cannonball weighs, but most babies born today are
• 1:46:13
  not ten pounds. They're less than ten pounds, right, It's normal for
• 1:46:16
  a baby to be six or seven pounds. An eight pound baby is pretty
• 1:46:23
  good sized, right. My mind was a nine pounder and I had to
• 1:46:28
  have them cut out of me. Oo. So yeah, I I guess
• 1:46:35
  it depends on the size of the cannonball and the material it's made out of,
• 1:46:40
  but I doubt it. And then of course, obviously the other thing
• 1:46:44
  is cannonballs don't kick you. I swear to you guys. The whole time
• 1:46:49
  I was pregnant, my son was in there playing basketball. We walking along,
• 1:46:56
  comeling, cobling, comeling, come bling. You gotta be kidding me.
• 1:47:00
  Yeah, no, no, none of that. That was always funny,
• 1:47:01
  like that was that was hilarious. You could actually see when I got
• 1:47:06
  close to uh childbirth, he'd move. And babies will move left to right,
• 1:47:15
  they'll turn, you know, get into a more comfortable position, like
• 1:47:20
  especially if you're you go from standing to sitting, or you're laying on your
• 1:47:24
  left side and you roll over on your right side. The baby has a
• 1:47:27
  position that they prefer, and they'll move and you can see the the elbow
• 1:47:34
  or the knee or the arm like sticking out and going across the bellley.
• 1:47:42
  It's good. It's bizarre, like it's quite obvious that there is a living
• 1:47:47
  organism independently moving inside of you. It's an amazing experience. So when women
• 1:47:57
  who play victim of that, I don't. I don't have any tempt for
• 1:48:00
  that because I was constantly floored by it. But yeah, point being that
• 1:48:12
  you don't, there's there's a glorification that happens. It's maybe not necessarily right
• 1:48:17
  in terms of war and the sacrifices that men go through, and they should
• 1:48:27
  be honored, but they shouldn't be honored in a way that makes them feel
• 1:48:31
  obligated to do that regardless of the cause. Right, the honor should be
• 1:48:38
  that you understand, you value the cause, and you you risked yourself by
• 1:48:47
  choice, or you risked yourself because you had to, and that people people
• 1:48:54
  owe you because you did that. They owe you a level of respect for
• 1:48:58
  what you did and gratitude. Women shouldn't be looking at that and saying I
• 1:49:06
  deserve some of that. I deserve a piece of that, right, because
• 1:49:13
  you're not part of a team if you're only willing to be on the team
• 1:49:19
  to get that. You're part of a team if you look at the goal
• 1:49:26
  that the team is trying to achieve and you look for a way to further
• 1:49:30
  the team's progress toward that goal, even if it is something that other people
• 1:49:39
  are never going to consider equal to what other teammates did. Yeah, it's
• 1:49:45
  a slap in the face to the people who actually got in there and did
• 1:49:48
  the work, you know, But that's what they don't want to do,
• 1:49:53
  is the work. I look at it in terms of medicine because that's part
• 1:50:00
  of my experience, and in terms of sports teams, because that's part of
• 1:50:02
  my experience. I was really good at the hurdles when I was in school.
• 1:50:09
  I was also on the cross country team. Right I sucked as a
• 1:50:12
  cross country runner. I was the last runner on our team, and I
• 1:50:16
  was often the last runner in the entire race. Like I was that person
• 1:50:21
  that people were worried about whether she was going to finish or not, whether
• 1:50:27
  whether you were going to go running back through the course and find it a
• 1:50:31
  body on the ground because the individual that you were looking for had suffocated.
• 1:50:40
  And I never needed to be credited as being first place runners as part of
• 1:50:48
  that team. I never had to be the person that every oh, you're
• 1:50:53
  a cross country runner, that's so tough, look at how great you are.
• 1:50:55
  It was just I was just glad they let me be on the team,
• 1:50:59
  even though I saw and I was glad that on occasion I could contribute
• 1:51:04
  points right. And there was one time that we lost our first place runner
• 1:51:12
  to a hole in the ground. She didn't fall in, she sprained her
• 1:51:16
  ankle in it. But because of that I became important, which really was
• 1:51:24
  intimidating at the time. So running along and which for me meant stumbling blindly
• 1:51:30
  forward and catching myself with my feet, and you know, the whole time,
• 1:51:36
  I sound like I'm dying, and all of a sudden there's there's my
• 1:51:43
  coach and one of the other runners on the on the team yelling at me
• 1:51:46
  that Kelly is down and I have to beat the girl in front of me
• 1:51:51
  in order for us to maintain our lead. The girl in front of me
• 1:51:56
  is like fifty yards in front of me, and I have to catch up
• 1:52:00
  to her, and I'm just dying, and so I you know, I
• 1:52:05
  like the whole time. You know, the cheering of my teammates helped to
• 1:52:11
  sort of light a fire under my butt, and I sort of dredged up.
• 1:52:15
  All right, I'm going to do this because you could also see it
• 1:52:19
  wasn't close, but it was visible. There's the finish line, and so
• 1:52:29
  I didn't have a whole lot of time to catch up to her and beat
• 1:52:31
  her. Yeah, so I went into a there's a final sprint that you
• 1:52:36
  do at the end of a across country race if you can find that inner
• 1:52:41
  fire. Some people just don't. They can't. But when I did that,
• 1:52:46
  when I started that, I immediately started having an asthma attack. So
• 1:52:50
  if you ever heard the sound effects they use were when there's two guys with
• 1:52:56
  one of those big band saws, I think that's what it's called in the
• 1:53:00
  woods cutting down a tree, like the big long, you know, six
• 1:53:03
  foot long saw. That's what my breathing sounded like. Oh my god.
• 1:53:09
  And I stretched my legs out as far as I could, which you know
• 1:53:12
  that helped a lot because I was taller than the other girl, and I
• 1:53:15
  barely caught up to her. Well, at that point, she heard me
• 1:53:21
  coming and she stopped and she turned around. She looked at me because like
• 1:53:30
  this thing coming up behind her sounded like a train wreck happening. And I
• 1:53:38
  kept going. It's like I was sprinting in slow motion. And I kept
• 1:53:44
  going, and I could hear her coach going, what are you doing right?
• 1:53:49
  And she's just looking at me. Her jaw is on her chest.
• 1:53:56
  But I beat her. I beat that one girl, and that that that
• 1:54:00
  took us from second place into first place. Well and well made one point.
• 1:54:06
  There was one point difference between the two places. She was not on
• 1:54:12
  the team that we took down a peg either, so but it was funny
• 1:54:20
  and and that's like the probably the biggest moment I had in cross country the
• 1:54:25
  entire time I ran. And you know, she wasn't stopping to help me,
• 1:54:30
  by the way, she just was shocked. Wow. Oh, people
• 1:54:38
  know I have asthma, so I know exactly what you're talking about. Oh
• 1:54:43
  my god, you poor things. I passed out immediately after the race.
• 1:54:46
  I didn't thank God for my dad, because if you stop after a run
• 1:54:53
  like that, you cramp, kind of like getting the bins. So what
• 1:54:57
  he did was he threw my arm over his sho older and is his arm
• 1:55:00
  around my waist and walked me. And I remember getting to the finish line
• 1:55:09
  and him getting me into that position and putting my inhaler in my mouth,
• 1:55:13
  and I remember breathing in and getting the nasty taste from the inhaler because that
• 1:55:17
  it's like somebody stuck something that sucks all the moisture out of your mouth.
• 1:55:23
  And then then I was many yards away from the finish line, which they
• 1:55:32
  they have the way they do the finish line is they've got they set up
• 1:55:35
  like a funnel marking with the yardsticks poked into the ground and ribbon tied to
• 1:55:43
  it, so it's wider at the opening and narrower where you exit, several
• 1:55:48
  several yards away from that, and my dad is, you know, are
• 1:55:55
  you are you okay? You know, talking to me and everything. We
• 1:55:58
  had walked and I had moved my legs walking the whole time. It was
• 1:56:02
  completely unconscious. I did that a couple of times with him, where you
• 1:56:08
  know, he just kept me going. And he did that at every event.
• 1:56:15
  If I if my dad hadn't been there doing that, I would not
• 1:56:18
  have been able to even participate. Right, But I was never the most
• 1:56:23
  important person on the team, and it never occurred to me that that was
• 1:56:28
  a problem. It never should have occurred to me, because it wasn't right.
• 1:56:31
  The most important people on the team are the top five runners, and
• 1:56:38
  that's you know, you you work hard to push yourself to be good teammates
• 1:56:45
  to them and good backup and an inspiration, you know. The person.
• 1:56:50
  That's that they have to continue to beat you to stay in that top five.
• 1:56:56
  But if you have to think of yourself as as being the most important
• 1:57:00
  person on the team, you're in the wrong sport. And when it comes
• 1:57:06
  to things, when it comes to life, women should be ready to understand
• 1:57:11
  that about a lot of things. Men are bigger than us, They are
• 1:57:15
  stronger than us, They have thicker bones than we have. Men have a
• 1:57:20
  lot of physical characteristics that make them more suited for some things that we're not
• 1:57:26
  as well suited for on the whole, and so you find there will be
• 1:57:30
  a significant number more men doing those things than women. And that's fair.
• 1:57:36
  Women shouldn't feel left out right. What we should be doing is saying,
• 1:57:43
  well, what are we good at? What can we do? Let's do
• 1:57:46
  that. And that's what these women did. So when we look at the
• 1:57:58
  history of suffrage and conscription and fighting for human rights recognition and fighting for uh
• 1:58:11
  independent h like not self governance, but independent consent to be governed, it
• 1:58:26
  is it is irrational and unreasonable for for our society to say, well,
• 1:58:32
  women should have all the same rights as men, but should just be totally
• 1:58:38
  exempt from those dirty, ugly parts the ikey bits like, yeah, no,
• 1:58:47
  you're not exempt. Maybe you're maybe the dirty, ugly parts you handle
• 1:58:51
  aren't going to be the same as the ones they handle. Maybe you're the
• 1:58:56
  person who is holding somebody's hand and holding their leg down when the doctor has
• 1:59:02
  to cut off their foot. Oh that's horrible, right. Think of what's
• 1:59:11
  the scene in Gone with the Wind where Scarlett is working as a nurse and
• 1:59:17
  the man is yelling, don't cut, don't cut right before he gets his
• 1:59:20
  leg amputated because of Gangreen. It would still be a gut wrenching, horrifying
• 1:59:26
  thing to help with. His experience is obviously the worst experience in that situation.
• 1:59:34
  The doctor's experience is pretty terrible because that's certainly not the thing that's ideal
• 1:59:40
  for him to do. But just because just because your experience isn't the worst
• 1:59:46
  experience in that moment, doesn't mean that you shouldn't struggle to be a help,
• 1:59:54
  right, you have any other thoughts on the matter. It's just really
• 2:00:15
  sad to see how weak women have become, you know, and demanding.
• 2:00:24
  They just don't deserve they they're not deserving of it, you know, really,
• 2:00:30
  But I don't know, I don't really have any more thoughts other than
• 2:00:32
  that. God, the child soldier thing just really threw me. Yeah,
• 2:00:40
  imagine being fifteen years old and you're not only in the military, but you're
• 2:00:46
  expected to exercise authority and take responsibility for the people under you. Like,
• 2:00:58
  what were you doing when you were fifteen? Actually, I graduated high school
• 2:01:03
  when I was fifteen. Oh wow, that's awesome. Yeah, but I
• 2:01:08
  mean I really didn't do anything with it. You know, I wanted to
• 2:01:11
  go on to college, but I wanted to go out of state to a
• 2:01:14
  college I was accepted to for a nursing class, but because I was so
• 2:01:17
  young, my parents weren't having that you know. Yeah. So yeah,
• 2:01:25
  it is what it is, but kind of a difficult. It's it's hard
• 2:01:29
  to make that kind of decision as parents. You know, you were your
• 2:01:31
  kid to be a kid while they can be a kid. But sometimes the
• 2:01:35
  best time to learn new things is during that age when your brain still has
• 2:01:41
  that level of plasticity. Yeah, it is the best time. Yeah,
• 2:01:45
  there's a lot of things I wish i'd done when I was that age.
• 2:01:47
  I like, when I went to college, I shouldn't have gone with the
• 2:01:50
  intention of becoming a school teacher. If I had understood what the school system
• 2:01:55
  was at the time, I wouldn't i'd have I'd have gone for something else.
• 2:02:00
  Probably probably would have gotten a nursing degree, although at the time that
• 2:02:05
  I went, I had some issues that I should have addressed before ever setting
• 2:02:10
  foot at a university. But but all that aside, Yeah, I think
• 2:02:15
  most people, like when I was fifteen, I was scaring the shit out
• 2:02:19
  of some girl on somebody else's some other school's cross country team. I had
• 2:02:26
  my first paying job. I wasn't able to drive yet. I actually had
• 2:02:30
  to ride to events that I was photographing with the reporter that was covering the
• 2:02:38
  event because I couldn't I couldn't drive myself there. But but yeah, like
• 2:02:46
  and and and that's that's the sergeant age, right, the youngest boy age
• 2:02:53
  seven at that's that's a first grader. In the age of a first grader,
• 2:03:00
  a boy was responsible for playing the instrument that told the soldiers in his
• 2:03:09
  area within hearing distance of him to attack or retreat, or or do particular
• 2:03:16
  things in an attack or retreat. Like that's that's a heavy responsibility. M
• 2:03:26
  h. I mean, he was he was out there, you know,
• 2:03:30
  practicing with the rest of the soldiers too, you know, and he was
• 2:03:33
  a target. He wasn't just responsible for I have to do this right or
• 2:03:40
  people will die. On top of I have to do this right or people
• 2:03:44
  will die, it was I have to do this right under fire. Yeah,
• 2:03:48
  I have to do this right while my life is at risk. Like
• 2:03:54
  that's that's masculinity and comparison to femininity we have. Women don't have to be
• 2:04:01
  useless, they just choose to be here. Women don't have to be useless.
• 2:04:09
  Women don't have to be exempt from hardship mm hmm. But they also
• 2:04:15
  don't have to do that. They're not obligated to do that. So it's
• 2:04:23
  just unfair when people argue that, you know, we can't draft women because
• 2:04:30
  it's just it's just too hard for women to deal with with, you know,
• 2:04:34
  the the rigors of the military, when there are things that women clearly
• 2:04:38
  can do. But at the same time to say, well, women are
• 2:04:44
  just as capable as men. How many seven year old girls can you imagine?
• 2:04:51
  You tell take a seven year old girl and you tell her, all
• 2:04:57
  right, you're gonna learn to play this instrument and then you're gonna go out
• 2:05:00
  into this area where there are blood and got scary things that you've never seen
• 2:05:04
  before in your life, and you might be shot or stabbed. It's freezing
• 2:05:12
  cold, there's snow on the ground, wild animals might get you. All
• 2:05:16
  right, get out there. Yeah, yeah, no, no, but
• 2:05:26
  it is fucking hilarious. Seven young little boys have the responsibilities that grown women
• 2:05:35
  will not. They would oh no, they turned their nose a back,
• 2:05:40
  you know, they weren't expected to handle it. They did not ask women
• 2:05:43
  to do those jobs. God, So there we go. But it's nine
• 2:05:51
  o'clock, so I'm gonna go ahead and call it. So I think we
• 2:05:54
  pretty well established two things in this episode. From the beginning of the United
• 2:06:00
  States, from before we were states and when we were colonies, there was
• 2:06:10
  conscription. Men were obligated. Women were not. Right, that was one
• 2:06:15
  thing. But also that doesn't mean that women just should have a get out
• 2:06:25
  of responsibility free card, because obviously, even if you are not conscripting women
• 2:06:30
  to fight, there are things you can conscript women to do. M hm.
• 2:06:36
  So it is unfair for women to have no obligation at all. Absolutely,
• 2:06:45
  absolutely right. And so we look at I don't have any more super
• 2:06:53
  chows. I've read all the super chats. I like Quicksilver Tongue, and
• 2:07:00
  today's ten year old girls are responsible for promoting Taylor Swiss new concert on social
• 2:07:03
  media. Knew if if my girls were that young, like I think,
• 2:07:12
  I would have taught them not to give free advertisement to bimbos. They wouldn't
• 2:07:21
  be on social media at all. Oh my god, mister three or three
• 2:07:29
  wants the drill scene from Full Metal Jacket, but with women. Yeah.
• 2:07:36
  Mangaka ninety two says it's equally unfair for women to get to wash laundry while
• 2:07:42
  men get their brains blown out, and it is, yeah, yeah,
• 2:07:45
  it is. But at the same time, I think it's unfair. It
• 2:07:51
  would also be unfair to put a man's life in a woman's hands if she
• 2:07:58
  is not going to be able to hold up her end, right. I
• 2:08:05
  think if women do get drafted for combat, it's important that the women have
• 2:08:11
  their own units and they're not side by side with the men, because I
• 2:08:20
  don't think. I don't think women and men are equally yoked today until yeah,
• 2:08:30
  until that would change, would I would not object? I would not
• 2:08:35
  if women want to have fighting units that are all women and and risk their
• 2:08:41
  lives together. That's their business. But to turn to a man and say
• 2:08:48
  you have to depend on me to protect you, I think that would be
• 2:08:54
  unfair. Mm hmm. That that I would sacrifice is safety. The IDEF,
• 2:09:07
  I don't know what the IDEF is night motorcyclists. I found mixed to
• 2:09:13
  be a liability. The Israeli depends okay, yeah, yeah. I remember
• 2:09:18
  reading about when they when they started that, everybody's like, oh yeah,
• 2:09:22
  women and men can look at Israel's doing it. Israel's doing it. And
• 2:09:26
  then they discontinued it, did they They they're not mixed, They're I think
• 2:09:33
  they're they're segregated now hmmm, because I remember reading about that as well,
• 2:09:37
  that they found that when you put the men and the women together, there
• 2:09:43
  are two things that happen that are that are dangerous to the men. One
• 2:09:48
  of them is the women don't hold up their end, and the other one
• 2:09:50
  is that the men will sacrifice themselves to protect the women. Cheese, Yeah,
• 2:09:58
  I can totally, God damn. Yeah. So yeah, if you
• 2:10:07
  if you want women to fight, you have to have them as a team
• 2:10:09
  separate from the men, or you end up with that kind of problem.
• 2:10:18
  Quicksilver Tongue says, if you don't buy a ten year old girl the latest
• 2:10:22
  iPhone has probably counted as child abuse today. Ye if I had kids that
• 2:10:30
  age right now and I was responsible for them, forget about iPhone, they
• 2:10:37
  would not have phones at that age. Mm hmmm, absolutely no way.
• 2:10:46
  Like the only the only thing that could persuade me to give my kid a
• 2:10:50
  phone would be is if I was worried that they were not safe at school.
• 2:10:54
  And if I was that worried that they were not safe at school,
• 2:10:58
  I wouldn't send them to that school. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I
• 2:11:03
  say this, I don't have kids, but in my hypothetical, if I
• 2:11:07
  had children's situation, I wouldn't be working. I would be home with them,
• 2:11:13
  probably homeschooling them. You know. It's just there would be no need
• 2:11:16
  for them to have their own phone. Yeah. Like, this is something
• 2:11:20
  that people don't understand today, And it's amazing to me how many people my
• 2:11:26
  age that don't understand this we grew up without. When I was a kid,
• 2:11:35
  the phone in our house wasn't just plugged into the wall, it was
• 2:11:39
  mounted to the wall. You couldn't even take the phone into another room to
• 2:11:46
  have a conversation. You went to where the phone was, and you had
• 2:11:50
  a chair by where the phone was you could sit down. Like a lot
• 2:11:56
  of people had phones that sat on a coffee table or something like that.
• 2:12:00
  There were, but but our phone was actually the the the type that you
• 2:12:07
  mounted onto a thing attached to the wall. Mm hmm. Yeah. Parts
• 2:12:13
  was in the kitchen. Yeah, we had a our house had my parents
• 2:12:20
  uh enclosed what had been a patio. They added a room there. They
• 2:12:26
  put it, they put they put a family room. It was like a
• 2:12:31
  living room be almost like a parlor, except that we used it all the
• 2:12:35
  time, so it wasn't just for when guests were over. And and in
• 2:12:39
  between the kitchen, which had sort of had a dining room area that was
• 2:12:46
  all like all open. There was no doors or closed walls in between us,
• 2:12:52
  so it was like one great big L shaped room. And on the
• 2:12:56
  post in between where the door to the outside used to be, that's where
• 2:13:01
  our phone was mounted. So you could be in the in the family room,
• 2:13:05
  or you could be in the kitchen. And we had a phone cord
• 2:13:07
  that was long enough that you could sit down. But then if anybody wanted
• 2:13:09
  to walk through the room, they had to walk over or under it,
• 2:13:15
  and so yeah, we uh, we had a rotary phone. But yeah,
• 2:13:22
  I just know, I don't think I would I don't think I would
• 2:13:28
  like the idea of having a ten year old with a smartphone. And my
• 2:13:35
  kids grew up with no privacy on the computer like they grew up with.
• 2:13:43
  And when when my stepdaughters had phones, their their mom gave them in high
• 2:13:48
  school and everything. You know, we kind of developed a habit of showing
• 2:13:54
  each other this is what's on the look. Look, I got this meme,
• 2:13:56
  I found this thing. This is funny. Haha, you know,
• 2:14:01
  I got this text. You know, blah blah, this video came from
• 2:14:03
  your uncle. And so even then, you know, they didn't really have
• 2:14:09
  screen privacy. It just it's it's a bad idea. Your kids should not
• 2:14:16
  have screen privacy from their parents. No way, it invites too many problems,
• 2:14:24
  you know. Like but but yeah, senior sixth gave us two dollars
• 2:14:31
  and said, just give them old school flip phones for for eighties style.
• 2:14:37
  Do those even still work? Yeah, I was just gonna say that,
• 2:14:41
  and my husband is nodding, head they still work. They are fragile though,
• 2:14:45
  Yeah, but well, and and actually in the eighties. I don't.
• 2:14:50
  I don't think flip phones existed in the eighties. The mobile phones that
• 2:14:56
  existed in the eighties came in a bag, It plugged into your cigarette lighter
• 2:15:01
  in your car, and it was like seven fifty a minute for phone calls.
• 2:15:07
  So yeah, it was really expensive and it was it was the size
• 2:15:13
  of a brick, and there was there were like maybe one or two companies
• 2:15:18
  that you could you could get them from, and you paid for a contract
• 2:15:22
  on top of that. By the way, it was expensive. You paid
• 2:15:26
  you paid through the nose to get the phone, and then you also had
• 2:15:31
  a monthly contract fee for service, which got you absolutely nothing except that you
• 2:15:37
  had a phone number and the phone number worked right, and then if you
• 2:15:43
  used the service, you had to pay buy the minute for your use.
• 2:15:50
  And there was no such thing as text messaging. So what most people had
• 2:15:58
  clear up into the late nineties instead was a little device that would be attached
• 2:16:07
  to a number. When somebody called it, it would beep and then you
• 2:16:09
  would go call them back, and that's a pager. If somebody has one
• 2:16:16
  of those today, you have just found a drug dealer. But it used
• 2:16:24
  to be you know, like doctors would have pagers, and people lawyers would
• 2:16:30
  have pagers. People who were on call would have pagers so that they would
• 2:16:35
  know that somebody was trying to get in touch with them because you couldn't just
• 2:16:39
  call them. So that's that. But yeah, it is after nine o'clock.
• 2:16:46
  I'm going to go ahead and call it. I don't think we have
• 2:16:48
  anything more to talk about on the subject. I think I've pretty much established
• 2:16:52
  that. You know, the feminists are kind of bullshitness when they act like
• 2:17:00
  it's the reason that women are exempt from any kind of service today is because
• 2:17:05
  women just have always been not expected to contribute anything to the war effort.
• 2:17:11
  Uh. You know, maybe maybe they haven't been on the front lines,
• 2:17:15
  maybe they haven't been doing the things that are frequently glorified by by war historians,
• 2:17:22
  but that doesn't mean that they just got to sit around on their butts
• 2:17:28
  like women today, and they were. Every bit is necessary, right,
• 2:17:31
  and and it's important for women to remember that that level of responsibility and take
• 2:17:39
  take it up and exercise it because you know, when you put everything on
• 2:17:45
  the men and then you still get to vote, you are more willing to
• 2:17:50
  vote to make those sacrifices. It's easier to sacrifice something that somebody else has
• 2:17:54
  to pay than when you have obligation, even if it's not the same sacrifice.
• 2:18:00
  Yeah, so that's my conclusion. So let me know what you think,
• 2:18:05
  you guys, let us know in the comments what what would you think
• 2:18:07
  would be the ideal way to handle equal obligation in terms of UH military obligation
• 2:18:18
  in wartime and service obligation in in in the country in order to justify equal
• 2:18:26
  voting rights. And with that, thanks everybody for listening, Thanks to my
• 2:18:35
  awesome co host for for for contributing to the conversation and being here for all
• 2:18:41
  of the weird stuff that we went through tonight. And thanks to everybody who
• 2:18:46
  works in the background to make HBr Talk happen. Good idol, Good night,
• 2:18:50
  y'all. We'll see you next Thursday. See you next Thursday.