Latest / Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne / 2116 - BONUS: The Death of a Pastor's Wife (Netflix) with Kimberly

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2116 - BONUS: The Death of a Pastor's Wife (Netflix) with Kimberly · Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody. Welcome to Pink Shade. Now, if you're listening
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to this on Prime, welcome. If you're listening next week,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: it's on regular. So, hello to one and all. Prime
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and non-Prime. Yeah.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And to me as well.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Welcome. Welcome also to Kimberly. Welcome, Kimberly.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Kimberly.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't turn my light on back there. You think
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I need to do it?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: It's all right.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: No.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. I like it. I feel like this vibe. This
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: is daytime Mary Payne.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: It's moody and dark, like what we're going to discuss. Now,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I do delve sometimes into these Netflix true crime documentaries.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I watch all of them, I think. Unless
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: somebody goes, oh, it was terrible. It could have been
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: three episodes and it was 10 or whatever. And then
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I don't. If something is a terrible review. But generally...
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I try to keep up and it's, and it's nice
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to have a little break to not have to take
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: notes or do anything. But this particular case I was
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: so interested in because I followed it. I followed it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: But then as I'm starting to watch it and I
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: was telling my husband, I was like, I actually don't
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: know as much about this as I thought I did.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So that was actually, um, a nice surprise.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I will also tell you, sorry, that's been stuck in
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: my head all morning.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I mean, you said it, so now I
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: got to pull it up. Let's see. Where is it?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: So sorry. But all morning.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Between that and... It's Joseph. I love his voice. Okay. Just...
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, is that me?
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Every time he laughs, it's just great. But this is
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: what we're covering here is the death of the pastor's wife.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: It could be death of the pastor's wife with no the,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: but either way, Death of the pastor's wife is what
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: it is. And as this was going along, I would
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: pause it and take out my AirPods and play the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: sermons for my husband.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: He was like, who would sit and listen to this shit?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, he could not get over it. He's like,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I have never been to church where I heard the
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: pastor talk about my sex life. And this guy seems
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: like it's all he talks about.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: No one is hornier than religious people who are not
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: supposed to be. It's the impression. He is like a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: 13 year old boy.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, he is. Except for way darker than that.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: He who is a 13 year old boy who has
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: discovered the dark web.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, oh, anyway, I kept playing
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: it for my husband. I was like, oh, here's another one.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: He's like, I don't know if I want to hear
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: any more of this.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: But as we go, I'll let you know what he said.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Is this what they talk about in church? Because we
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: never talked about that in temple.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: But imagine, I'm just imagining myself going to church. At
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: some point, you decide it's cool to sit with your friends.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Or at some point, you have to sit with your parents,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but you don't want to. Yes, totally. Or like what
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: we used to do, we'd try to get out of
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: going to church by going to work in the nursery.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And like babysit the little kids. And that would be
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a good way to get out of having to sit
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: and listen to the sermon. But if I was sitting
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: there with my parents listening to this, I'd be like
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: looking at my parents like, what are you guys doing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: when we go to bed? Oh my God.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I'd be as embarrassed as I was when I saw
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: The Devil's Advocate with my parents in the theater. Or
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: when I watched last resort 90 day when they went
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: into the sex dungeon with my father.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that if you
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: did watch that episode with him.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I refrained. I stayed at home because
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I learned my lesson.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Thank God.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: There are children in this church, right? Yeah. And he's
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: talking about how it's your godly duty to submit to
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: your husband however many times a day he wants sex.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Because you know what? If you don't, He's getting it
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: somewhere else. He just is.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: The devil is putting 20 visual demon, sexual demons in
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: front of him to tempt him.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And it won't be your fault, Kimberly, but it'll kind
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: of be your fault. It'll kind of be your fault.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, my husband was dying. Every time I go,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: hold on, here's another one. He's going to play it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: You should have told him he's going to now want
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: you to do things.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, no, no. He knows. He knows. Stay away
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: from me. Um, so this is part one, a note
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: from your pastor. So we opened with a 911 call
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and it's a woman asking the 911 operator if she
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: could trace her location. Like, can you tell where I am?
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And we see her like, let me share my location
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: with you. And she's talking and the woman says, oh,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you don't know where you are. Like you got lost.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: She goes, yeah, I'm not completely sure where I am.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I'm at a national park. Um, but anyway, I just
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: wanted you to know where I was because I'm going
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: to unalive myself, and I want my family to be
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: able to find me. And the operator's like, okay, ma'am,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: hold on now. Now let me make sure I have
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: your location. She's obviously trying to keep her on the phone,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: but the line goes dead. So this is where we start.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: It's the hardest job. I cannot imagine being a 911 operator.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I know. And didn't Sarah from Crime Scene tell me
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: recently that that's what she's been doing in Australia? She has.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: But I'm not sure if she's answering calls or if
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: she just works at the center. Well, either way, she's
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: having to work calls. Yeah. We've got to find out.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Awful.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So anyway, the operator's like, okay, okay. And then the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: line goes dead. So that's how we start. So then
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: we see some news clips that announce the pastor's wife,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Micah Miller, wife of John Paul Miller of Solid Rock Church,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: was found dead. And we see him saying, I have
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: an announcement. My wife has passed away. I told them
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: for years, this would happen if she gets off her medicine.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's my announcement. And we see lots and
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: lots of clips of people. We don't know who they
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: are yet being like, he did it. He said, she
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: said he would do it and try to make it
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: look like I unalive myself. So if I turn up dead,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: he did it. Okay. No more. I mean, Nothing is
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: better than when somebody tells you flat out, if I
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: turn up dead, let me tell you who to find.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. We love that on Dateline.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Love that. So we meet her friend. Okay. We've got
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: blonde Charlotte. So this is, I put blonde, pregnant Charlotte,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: corn with a K like the band. Oh. Then we
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: meet another friend who's Bruna Pabon.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I was trying to think of a corn song, but
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I could not.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: No, you won't know me either.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: It's like, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Heavy metal.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I'm looking it up.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Okay. You're looking it up.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We meet a redheaded friend. Her name is Bruna Pabon.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: And her name is Bruna. So is she Italian? It's
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: like Bruna.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: She's something. She's a foreign ginger.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: She's a foreign ginger. But Bruna seems to me like
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Bruno would be an Italian name. So maybe Bruna. I
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I think German.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, you think German. Okay.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Like Brunhilde.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's with an M. I know.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Bruna.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: This is Bruno Pabon. So she's really cute. And so
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: we talk about Micah singing, and we see lots of
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Micah singing parody songs about Adele and NSYNC and stuff.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: And it's like they're making words to be like Jesus
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: words instead of.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Like– Yeah, Justin Bieber, baby.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Is that Justin Bieber?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: It's like pray with me, pray with me.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: It's wow. Yeah.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: There's quite a few of them. I'm like, Oh, copyright TM. Um,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: so we found out that Micah joined this church, uh,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: solid rock when she was 13 and John Paul, currently
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: her husband was the pastor at that church when she
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: was 13 and she joined the church. So hold on, Kimberly,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I'm at my other house.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So I've got a, I'm already raging. I'm already raging.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Got to get out my homemade duct tape red flag.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Giant red flag. Yeah. I can't. So not only was
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: he a grown man and you were a very early preteen,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: he was in a position of power over you.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Right from the start.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And again, he was a grown man and you were 13. Yeah.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: And he was married.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: With children, yes.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: With children.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So Micah had four sisters and one brother. They're six
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: kids total. Now, her sisters are Destiny with two E's,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: which I've never seen that before other than Love After Lockup. Destiny, Abigail, Anna,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: and Sierra, and then, of course, Micah. So the brother
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: is Nate. God bless Nate and his wife, Victoria, because
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Nate was the only brother in that family. estrogen-filled home.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Destiny says, Micah was the most religious out
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of all of us. She always really clung to church.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: So my mom had gotten remarried. So they moved from
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: somewhere in Kansas to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. They all
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: talk about how they just joined the little church. It
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: was just like a tiny little hole in the wall
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: church on the side of the wall. John Paul had
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a wife and a few kids. He was a cool guy.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: He had charisma. Now, I didn't see charisma so much
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: as I saw dad jokes.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, charisma footage not found.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of... Listen, you know, I'm your
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: pastor and I have to get up here and I
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: have to preach to you on Sunday and then next
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Sunday and then next Sunday. And some people say it's
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: pretty good. Don't tell them the truth. Am I right? Really,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I am really good. Everybody give me some applause. I mean,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: just a lot of dad jokes like that, you know?
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: We just covered a Dateline Secrets in the Emerald Coast
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: and that pastor was also referred to as extremely charismatic.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: And again, I say.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Where is the charisma? This guy, I would say, I've
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: never seen charisma.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this guy's like basic. He's he's not attractive, not unattractive.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: He's pretty.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see him being cute. His nose is
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: a bit elfish for me. When we got a close up,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I was like, wow, his nose is a elf nose.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'd have to just see a picture of what
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: an elf nose looks like to understand.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Like a true button nose.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Because it was small and has like kind
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of a ball on the end? Yes, exactly. Okay. So
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Micah was super involved in the music program. And when
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: she was just 16, she became the worship leader, which
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: means she's in charge of the choir. Now, this was
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: like a roadside tiny thing, you know, church. So it
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: wasn't like a huge thing. But as it grows, she
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: is still in charge of the choir.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah no so.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Micah's mom and step dad get divorced and um she
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was very upset and she took her church going to
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a new level and made church her entire personality her
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: entire lifestyle.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: She was vulnerable and now she has daddy issues.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah right um Micah met a guy named Jeremy. It
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: was young love. They were high school sweethearts. They got
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: engaged at church, of course, at age 18. They got married,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and J.P. Miller was the officiant of the wedding. Jeremy
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: looked up to John Paul Miller, just really looked at
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: him as a mentor. I don't know what Jeremy's job was,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: per se. He worked at the church, I think. But
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Micah became J.P. 's assistant and the Miller's babysitter.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: A beautiful young assistant babysitter. You know the wife was
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: side-eyeing the whole time.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: She looks exactly like the wife. Every time they show
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the wife, it is completely interchangeable. I was like, is
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that her? Is that the wife? And the person I
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: would have loved to hear from the most on this
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: documentary is that first wife.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And the thing that bothers me the most is I
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: bet she was getting gaslit in the same way the
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: sister wives were getting gaslit by Cody Browne. Like if
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: she ever made a comment that he was spending too
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: much time alone with Micah, she was being like, you know,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: jealousy is a sin and you really need to pray
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: that away and work on yourself.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I'm sure.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Totally doing it with Micah.
• 13:22
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• 15:36
  Speaker 1: So he was 15 years older than her. He was
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: her pastor. He was her mentor. He was her church leader.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Also her employer. Yeah.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just shocking. It's shocking. We need to
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: bring in a cult leader to a cult deprogrammer to
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: work on a lot of these people and teach them
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: these warning signs.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So Micah and Jeremy did double dates with
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: JP and his wife, Allie, because they were just like
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: what 35 year old couple with kids doesn't want to
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: go on a date with a 20 year old couple. Yeah, right.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: So we see the beginning of a zillion gross sermons
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: by John Paul talking about lust and your spouse.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: My favorite was one that he was talking about lust
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and the graphic behind him said, stinking thinking.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: It had an emoji of a poop inside of a brain.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: A poop emoji on your brain.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: No, but the best part, Mary Payne, was it was stinking, apostrophe,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: no G, thinking.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Because we're cool.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: We're edgy. We're approaching you young people by using an apostrophe.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Listen, you don't want that stinking thinking. You don't want lust.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: If your wife says, I don't want to have sex
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: for the fifth time today, you say, that's just stinking
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: thinking and I can get it elsewhere. Yep.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Also, let's go back to the reason Micah and her
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: boyfriend got married at 18 so they could have sex.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Which I know many young religious people who had the
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: same experience. And they were getting married very young. And
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: it was essentially, they wouldn't admit it, but it was
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: so they could have sex.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll give you Hosanna Plath, Ethan Plath, Lydia Plath. Yep. Yes. So, okay.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: So then we meet the friend Erica. Erica Rahr. R-A-H-R. Rahr.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Rahr.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: How do you pronounce Rahr?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Erica Rahr. I love it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: It's hard to pronounce.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to change that to my name.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: She's another former church member and a good friend of Micah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And she tells the story of JP getting up on
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the pulpit and explaining he had had a moral failing
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: in his marriage that he wanted to confess to everybody
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: there at the church. Can you imagine?
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't even like when our rabbi would like
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: mention his home life. I would be like, eh, it's
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: like a teacher. It's like when you see a teacher
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: at the grocery store, it's, I don't want to know
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: you have a personal life. And this pastor is confessing
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that he went outside the marriage. But again, it's such
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: a power play because God teaches you to forgive. So
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: here I am asking for forgiveness. You really have to
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: forgive me because that's what I've been telling you all along.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So of course we find out he was having an
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: affair with Micah and his wife, you know, found text
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: messages and the whole church loves Allie. Okay. So the
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: sisters and brother Nate are telling how Micah was devastated
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and admitted to them that she had sinned. She had
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: had this affair with JP. She had so much guilt
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: about it and word in the church was spreading about
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the affair. Um, JP was very upset about his divorce
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and was spiraling. And then we see some very weird
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: video that I need more information about. And what I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: should have done was gone to the Reddit to figure
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: it out, but I didn't have time. So if somebody knows,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: please let me know. He's laying on the ground next
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: to his car as if he'd fallen out dramatically and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: has his one arm behind him and one arm in
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: front of him and is speaking like a somebody that
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: sucked on helium he's like crying it's like a five-year-old.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Crying And it's like, oh, my God.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And the high-pitchedness, you're like, it's just like I used
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: to say to my kids when they would be like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I can't understand you.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Only dogs can hear you right now.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: You know? And he was like, ants are.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Crawling on my eyes.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And his friend's like, so Mark's coming? Mark's coming to
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: get you? Because I am not equipped to deal with
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: whatever's happening here. Weird. Very, very, very weird. And it
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: is never explained. He had this breakdown after he had
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: had the affair and his wife left him. Now he's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: having a breakdown? Right.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And then like the way he later, spoiler alert, uses
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: mental health against Micah so many times. And this is
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: never addressed.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is fucked up. So now we meet
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Pam Mucey. Another last name I can't pronounce. M-U-I-S-E. Muse
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: with an I or Mucey? Unclear. She's a pastor. And
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: she says, I knew of the Solid Rock congregation. It
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: was a congregation in crisis. I had a few friends
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that went to this church. I knew John Paul and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I knew John Paul's dad, Wayne.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: They were not solid as a rock. They were solid
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: as the ocean.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: He probably named it solid rock in reference to like
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: his penis, if you have to.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Rock solid, am I right, ladies?
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Arrested Development. Solid as a rock. And then it, nevermind,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: it became a whole thing. Okay.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I don't remember that from Arrested Development. I only watched
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: it once. Okay. So.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a shame. I don't like that Mary Pian.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I've watched it just the one time, though. I didn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: watch it all the way through twice like Schitt's Creek.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: No. Okay. I don't like that.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: So she knew, Pam knew John Paul and John Paul's dad.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Wayne was also a Myrtle Beach pastor. When she met
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: John Paul, he was a church pianist. She said he
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: was very, very musically talented. And he had decided maybe
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: he also wanted to preach, become a pastor. He felt
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: called to it.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: He felt called to be a wannabe rock star. Yes.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: He wanted to do it different because you see his
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: dad is very traditional with the robes and the pulpit
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: and he wants to be the Bluetooth walking around. Yeah.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: With my guitar and my piano in front of people
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: cheering for me.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yes. Again, check out the Instagram preachers and sneakers. Okay.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So she says, Everybody in the church loved his wife, Allison,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and people were leaving the church in droves because of
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: what he had done. So he asked me to take
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: over to help the congregation heal.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: So, and she said, you know, and I thought at
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that time it was one fall from grace and who
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: was I to judge? So JP is now 36. Micah
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: is 21. Okay. Erica says, Um, her Erica Rauer says
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: her husband was good friends with John Paul and John
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Paul came to him and said, what would you think
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: if I started dating Micah? Cause now Micah has gotten
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: divorced as well. Then they're one of the sisters who
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I don't ever write down which sister it is. One
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: sister says, um, I went to visit Micah a few
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: months after her divorce and we were walking on the beach.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: She lifted up her shirt and showed me that she
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: had John Paul Miller's entire signature on her side. Like
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a tattoo, like ownership. Not even just his first name.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Not even just the first name, which is bad enough.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: It's the full name. On her side, she said, a tattoo,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: like ownership. And this is a family full of tattoos,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: so it wasn't like she was judging the tattoo part.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: No. She's just like... It's like a brand.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: A brand, almost, yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: It's like a NXIVM.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. A tattoo is better than a brand, though. It
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: hurts less. So... Then Victoria and Nate, so Nate's the brother,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Victoria's the wife, say that she, Victoria, got a text
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: from a girl, Megan, in the church saying she was
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: having an affair with JP. So Nate sees the text
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and he goes, I was obviously very upset about the
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: whole thing. And I said, JP is cheating on you.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: This is before they were engaged or anything.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: This is before they were engaged.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. JP is cheating on you. She was very hurt.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: She was very embarrassed. And she said she was done
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: with him. But as per usual, she came back around.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: He said it was a mistake. He completely love bombed her.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And again, the power dynamic and she's so much younger
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: and she's only ever had that one relationship.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: This whole thing should be required viewing for young women.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: On love bombing, on power dynamics, on the gaslighting, cheating,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: and how they say they're going to change. They never change.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And like the abuse that happens later, like truly like
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: all moms should show this to their young daughters. I
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: think it's becoming more prevalent. Like everyone knows a lot
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: of young people know about these terms now. Yeah.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes. But we didn't.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: We didn't. And in a sheltered religious community that they
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: might not know about things like this.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you think about Mariah Plath trying to go
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: out in the world and date.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: She didn't know. She didn't know. I will tell you something,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: a sidebar, that there in my neighborhood, somebody posted a
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: picture in like the next door. And it's literally a
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: picture of this guy like looking at the camera in
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a Walgreens aisle. Like somebody took his picture in the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Walgreens aisle and he's looking at the camera fully with
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: his hands down his pants. And somebody said, does anybody
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: know this man? And it's just full face.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Good.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: And it says, Yes. Does anybody know this man? He
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: followed my friend around Walgreens with his hands in his pants.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And other people wrote and said, oh, yeah, we've seen
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: this guy at the Wainwood Pool, which is like a
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: neighborhood pool. But you have to like live in that
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: neighborhood to go to the pool.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, how did he get into the pool
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: if he wasn't? And they said nobody knows who he is.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Same thing. Standing outside the women's bathroom, hands in his pants.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Get this man arrested.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So what I said was, this is where it starts.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Now you're the Golden State Killer. Like. This is where
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: it starts. Yeah.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Sexual predators are everywhere. And unfortunately the law is not
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: designed to properly deal with them as we see later.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah. And I say, get this man on Trent.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: What's his face on Instagram.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: With the beard. People, people were saying that.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: He'll out him in five seconds. He'll find his place
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: of employment.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Everything. I love that. Maybe I will. So that's a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: new show.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Do you know, he has a TV show on discovery.com.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I did not know that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It's called outing a dirt bag or something like that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And it's basically what he does on his Instagram.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Fighting these people.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Trent Walgreens guy. So hopefully I'll remember what that means
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the next time I'm going to look at it.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: You can just ask Trent.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Dave's cousin? So now we see Jay Presner.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: No.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: So then we see JP has done an airplane proposal
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: on Myrtle Beach. Like an airplane goes by, will you
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: marry me? And she's all excited and she's jumping up
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and down. And she's saying, I wanted to have the
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: most beautiful wedding ever. And she's all excited and everything.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: But then her sisters say, for no reason. I mean,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: look at this girl. She could not be more just
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: drop dead gorgeous, right?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: She is. She's stunning.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And she started getting insecure about her looks, probably
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: because of JP's cheating. Right. She had never said she
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: wanted a boob job, but then she got one.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yep. And it's too big and I feel bad for her.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: After the surgery, she had a horrible reaction to the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: sedative she was given and she started spiraling. And then
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: we see some videos of her just really talking nonsense.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Like she's definitely not right. Something has snapped. And JP
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: tells the sisters and the brother that the anesthesia caused
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: her psychosis and And he pushed to have her institutionalized. Now,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I will say that people in their 20s are more
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: apt to get things like schizophrenia. And certain things can
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: trigger you to go into psychosis. I do know that.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: But it has to sort of be a perfect storm
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: of things. So I do believe some sort of triggering
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: incident happens. put her into psychosis that, that made her
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: get this bipolar.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Or a manic episode.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And they put her into this diagnosis of bipolar. I
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: think all of that is a true part of this story. Now,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: whether or not she needed to like constantly be put
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: in the hospital. Right. Yeah.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: So this is that you're right. The early twenties and
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: teens is the years where you are most likely to
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: be diagnosed. I think so.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Again, she is early twenties.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's 21 when she starts with him. So he
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: pushed to have her institutionalized and the families are like,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: she had never had a mental issue before. We were
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: very upset. We didn't understand. We didn't understand why he
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: was in charge of all this. And we were only
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: allowed to go and see her at the hospital if
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: he was there. Now they're not married yet. So I
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: don't know why he has all this control over her
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: because it's not like a spouse issue or if she
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: gave it over to him.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he got her to give over her mental
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: and medical control.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she must have. So she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: which could have been triggered by a stressful situation. And
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the family was very scared for him to have control
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: over her. her medically. Cause now they're like, this is
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: our sister and we need to be helping her. Not
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: this guy. So she gets released from the mental hospital.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: They get married right away. It makes it seem like
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: it's like within a week.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: It was five days, I believe.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: It looks very quick. I was like, okay, the wedding's on.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: We were going to get married. Let's go ahead and
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: get married. Even though she just got a boob job,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: just went into psychosis, just got out of a mental hospital,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: but let's go ahead and do it.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Well, he wants to control her completely. So he needs
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: legal control, like to be a spouse. So I think
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: he's like, let's get this done while she's still super
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: vulnerable because she just got out of the hospital.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: So the family says they have to pretend everything's fine
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: and normal. They don't support the marriage. Now, what's interesting, too,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: is we see an email that he's written, I guess,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to Micah saying, like, I'm going to have to be
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: in charge of all your medications for the rest of
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: your life.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm taking on that burden. You should be grateful
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: to me that as your spouse, I'm willingly signing up
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: for this because you're damaged goods, essentially.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm the only man that would want to take
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: this on.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What did you think about the bridesmaids' dresses being red?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Um, I thought they were off red, but you're right.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: They were, I mean, they were in that red. They
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: just all looked so miserable. All the bridesmaids and everybody that,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and her brother like just looked so uncomfortable that that's
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: all I could look at.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: I listen, if you had red at your wedding, send
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: me a picture and change my mind. Because this was,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I did not like this at all.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, was it a Christmas wedding? And for Indian weddings,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: red is a big color. That's like the good luck color.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm fine with that. That's different.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And you love an Indian wedding.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: But this was, yeah, I don't, well, I'm not a
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: huge fan of all matching color anyway.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So- We see more of his stupid sermons. I'm
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: so mad about the sermons. We see more of his
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: stupid sermons about a wife has to support her husband. Otherwise,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the relationship can't stay healthy. And back to her redheaded friend, Bruna,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: who says, we were friends. I had been divorced. I
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: was divorced because my husband had had an affair. And
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: as we got to be better friends, I told Micah
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: my divorce story. And she cried and held my hands
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: and said, I have to tell you in your story,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I am the other woman. And can I please get
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: your forgiveness? And so Bruna said, I thought that was
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: like really big of her to come forward and say
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: she had sinned. She had made the same mistake and
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: she didn't want Bruna to hear it from elsewhere. And
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: that really sort of bonded their friendship, which I thought
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: was interesting that Micah didn't feel like, oh, yeah, that whore.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: But she's like, oh, actually, I was that whore, you know?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Not that anybody has before.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, she doesn't realize that she was victimized and coerced.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: No.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: But I like that she's.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Taking ownership for it. She, by all accounts, is the
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: best Christian. Like, practices what she preaches and doesn't judge
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: people and leads with kindness and all of this. Yeah.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Truly, she's the one that's doing this. Walking down. The talk, talking,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: walking the talk. Why can I never get that expression?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Walk the walk, talk the talk. Thank you very much.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: So then we get Charlotte, her blonde friend, talking about
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Micah telling her, you know, we did have, I did
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: have the affair with him, but now we're really trying
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: to make it work as a married couple. I'm determined
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: to be a great stepmother to children that I used
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to babysit. Yes. And so they know me pretty well. Um, Pam, Pam,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the pastor says, I was determined not to like Micah,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: but it didn't last long. Like you could not like her.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: We see a lot of Micah posting, like from her
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: car to the congregants, like preaching, being a pastor's wife,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: like today, just try to do one good thing, you know,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And Charlotte says, Micah told me,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: don't ever call me before 11 AM.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I will.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, You and I kind of have that.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Rule as well.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: That's because we like to sleep. But she says, I'll
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: call you. Don't ever call me before 11. John Paul
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't like for me to get out of bed before him.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Huh?
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: What? What does that mean? Because in case he wants
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: to bang her one more time. Yeah, exactly. She says,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and I also take things that help me sleep. I
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: take lithium. I take Seroquel for my bipolar disorder disorder.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: And Charlotte says her body reacted to the medications by
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: gaining weight. So we started going to a kickboxing gym
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: to feel better about ourselves. And we had a maximum
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: three hours to hang out before JP would start calling
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and calling and calling and then just show up to
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: wherever we were. So he was tracking her. And Bruna says,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I always felt like Micah was so open about everything,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: but she was always very vague about her marriage. Yeah.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Because a wife shouldn't speak badly about her husband. No.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: And that she didn't want anybody to think badly about him,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: not only as the pastor, but as her husband. And
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Charlotte says, Micah was starting to open up to me,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: and there were a lot of red flags. Okay. So, okay.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: You're not as fast as I am on the red flags.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Sorry. I've got to be ready.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got to be ready. Your flag is struggling, sister.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: It's funny every time you bring it out. Okay. So
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: now we hear about the fact that he demands sex
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: four to five times a day. Wow. And if she
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: didn't agree to it, she knew he would get it
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: somewhere else. And Erica goes, she told me that. And
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, are you okay with that? Do you
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: want to do that?
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: And she said, no, but he'll get it somewhere else.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: And Charlotte said, I was floored. I've never heard of
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: such a thing.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Like, what? Is her vagina okay?
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: No. No.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Also, how do you have time for anything else? Like,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: have a job.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Just remember they don't have kids. And he purposely probably
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the kids over very often. His own children.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: You know? Yeah. More sermons on adultery and lust. So, Micah.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: He is preaching against... like grape sexual assault and things
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: like that while doing those very things at night. Essentially.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: He literally says, if you deny your spouse, it is
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: the same as grape, um, deviance and homosexuality. Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: If you homosexuals. Yeah.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: So if those are three sins and if you don't
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: agree to sex as much as your husband wants it,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: You are a sexual deviant. You could also be a homosexual.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: And you are a grapist and a sex trafficker, he says.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: All of those are on the same... Sex traffickers are
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: on the same bar as a wife that won't have
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: sex with her husband because she doesn't feel like it.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I feel so badly for any young gay youths that
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: were being forced to attend that church. Yeah. And young
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: sex traffickers.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We always feel sorry for them. So... Micah texts
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: her sister and says like, you know, she and JP were,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: it was not, things were not going well in the
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Miller house was kind of a thing. She always said
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: things are not going well in the Miller house. So
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: she asked her sister Sierra, if I can come visit her.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: She asked Sierra, can I come visit? And she said,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: here's what happened. John Paul got on this thing where
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: he was nonstop asking me if I had to kiss
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: a woman, who would it be? And she said, I
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: don't have an answer because I'm not into women and
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I don't want to kiss a woman. So I don't
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: have an answer. And he kept saying, but if you
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: had to choose someone and he would not let it go.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: And so finally she goes, I don't know, I guess Charlotte,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: cute blonde friend. And we see Charlotte laughing going, I
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: thought it was funny. Yeah. And this started, this made
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: him turn completely dark. Like you must be having an
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: affair with Charlotte. What else have you done with Charlotte?
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, she knew whatever answer was going to be wrong. Right. Right.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: This is because he's cheating again or having lustful thoughts.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: And he is trying to get her to be guilty
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: of something.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Totally. And she says he was acting completely crazy about this.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: She did not feel safe. So she went to her sisters.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: And then Charlotte says, for some reason, then JP puts
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: me on a text with he and Micah and says,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I'm putting Charlotte on here. So you're held accountable. You
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: have left me. You have done the worst thing a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: wife could do. And she says on the text, I
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: just want to visit my sister. And he says, no,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: you have abandoned me. And this is the worst thing.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: You're not a godly woman. You're not a biblical wife.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: And she says, I don't feel safe at home. And
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he says, that's a cop out. That's what you always
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: say when you're having these episodes. And Cheryl, it's like.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: It sounds like he's having an episode.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Cheryl said, why am I in this text?
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't ask to be part of this narrative. And
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I would like to be removed from it.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: But then I was telling Dave too, my husband, that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, this guy loved to make a group text.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: He was very into a group text. And he's got,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: in every picture, he's got the white collar like he's
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: a priest.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: That's your picture with a priest's collar?
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So he says in his text, he says, no man
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: would ever put up with what she has done in
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: their marriage. You're a horrible wife.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: What did she do?
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: And she just wrote, I'm visiting my sister. And Charlotte says,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I was floored. Like I did not know what to
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: think of this and why am I in it? Right. Okay.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Now we move on to part two and part two
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: is called help mate. which my husband loves the helpmate part,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: by the way, loved.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Can I quote the sermon that ends the first episode,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: which is, if your husband steps out on you, on
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: his wife, it's because he does not like her. And
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: the reason he doesn't like her is because of her mouth.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've got that somewhere. And I played that for
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: my husband who said, I mean, fair. He looked at
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: me and goes, I mean, you know, yeah. I mean,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: he was like, who could sit and he's like, I
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: just cannot imagine going to church as a kid or
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: as an adult and sitting and listen to this. He's like,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I just cannot grasp it.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: But he is a cult leader in a way. And
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: it is like a cult of personality. And the more
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: you listen to this stuff and you're being bombarded with it,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: you start to believe it.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nuts.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: And all religion is based in this sort of patriarchal.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all religion has their own set of issues, right? Yeah.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: That generally put women in the backseat and men in charge.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and sister in the back. So then JP on
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: this next part is like, I'm coming to the sister's
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: house to get you. I'm armed and I'm ready.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Terrifying.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: So Micah calls the cops and they confirm that he
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: is in fact not there, not wherever the sister is.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: He's not there like at the end of the street waiting.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: So she decides not to press charges against him, of course.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And the sister says all she wanted to do was
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: be a biblical wife. Now, you know, more sermons. If
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you don't respect your husband, he will get it somewhere else.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Submission of the spouse, da-da-da-da-da. So she goes back to
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: him and she tells Sierra, who the sister where she was,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and Charlotte, her friend, she goes, you know what? We've
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: decided we're going to just turn off our phones for
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the whole weekend and connect and just be off grid
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: and be together.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Do not turn your phones off around this man.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: And they're all like, what? That's not safe. So, so
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: God knows what he did to her like that whole weekend,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: you know? And then after that, she texts Charlotte, phones
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: are back on wonderful weekend together. And then Charlotte says,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: and I guess he was right there when she wrote
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: that because 10 minutes later she wrote back. Actually, it
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't wonderful.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: So after this, Charlotte says, apparently there was a big fight.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: And over the course of 10 days, we all started
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: to think something bad is going to happen. Then John
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Paul puts the whole family in a group chat, loves
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: a group chat. This man is king of the group
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: chat and the whole family, all her brothers and sisters.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if the parents turn it to
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: and said, Micah's having a bipolar episode. And then he
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: would not let her talk to her family. They could
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: not talk to her at the hospital. They couldn't see
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: her at the hospital, couldn't text with her, anything. And
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: after she was released, he was keeping tight control on her. So, again,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: she had done something he didn't like. And he said
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: she was having an episode and he put her in
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the hospital. So after that, she had a dinner.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: And is doing the textbook isolation from the family, all
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Right, all of it. So after that, she had dinner
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: with Charlotte. And she told Charlotte, yeah, John Paul is
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: obsessed with medicine and he withholds it to lure me
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: back and control my mental state. And Charlotte says, this
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: was atrocious. It made no sense. And then my husband
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: and I decided we have no intention of ever going
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: back to this church. And so, you know, she said,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to still continue to be friends and
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: help her. But then we see like a journal entry
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: of Micah saying, you know, Charlotte was such a great
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: friend and she was so perfect, but you know, it
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: was time for her to move on. And I'm so
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: glad to have other friends. And basically like she left
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: the church, so I can't be friends with her. Yeah.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Because she looks at my husband in a different way now.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: She knows the truth. Now that she knows what he's like,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: the facade is gone. She has to leave the church. Yeah.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: So Bruna and Erica, the other friends say she really,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: really felt she was his helpmate. That was the word
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: she would use. I was his helpmate. She got that
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: from the Bible. She really felt she had to be
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: a submissive wife. All right. Now we get Laura Hux,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: a biblical counselor. So she is, you know, like a
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: therapist for people who are church going people, I think.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: And she counseled Micah and she says.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I loved her.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I loved her too.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Everyone's going to think I hated her, but I loved
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: her because I probably roll my eyes at religious therapy.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And I think you should go see a real therapist.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: I've probably said that many times. But she's great.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like she is a real therapist. She just
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: tries to approach it from a religious way for people
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: that are very involved in their churches. But she says,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I counseled Micah. And in the first month, I can
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: say she was very guarded with what she would say.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: And she would only explain herself through John Paul's eyes.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: And she would pull her phone out and say, he
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: wants me to be sure I tell you this. And
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: she says like slowly but surely starting to realize she
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: did not have her own voice. Everything she was doing
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: was through what he wanted. And then I started to
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: realize she had been controlled by JP from a very
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: young age. Yep. So then we see Micah on the
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: stage as she would do as the, you know, the
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: choir leader and say, you guys know, I've been losing
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: my voice. I'm gaining weight. My hair has been falling out.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I've really been going through it. But what I've realized is,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: you know, God wants me as I am. God doesn't want,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: you know, God wants me, it doesn't matter. And so
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: they were like, she was starting to look very different,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: not like herself. And you see like her hair looks
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: like it's fallen out. She does look like exhausted.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: She looks so tired and she looks dead inside. She
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: looks like, again, like a dementor has come. She is
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: just like, like Josh on 90 day. She is just like,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: this woman has no joy left in her. It's just
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: been beaten out of her.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And she told Erica that, that she had been
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: taking testosterone and she goes, and I just did it
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: because I heard it would help me keep up with
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: John Paul's sex drive.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And we learned later he was like making her
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: do this and it was injections, injection, injecting it in him, herself, himself. Um,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: how did they get this? I do not know. Um,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: what doctor gave it to them? Maybe he said it
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: was for him. Um, And she had the most beautiful voice,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: and she was such a good singer, and she loved singing,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: and now she's losing her voice.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So sad. It's like Ariel. From The Little Mermaid?
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she gave away her voice.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't remember that part.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And metaphorically, she gave away her voice because she gave
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: all of her power to John Paul.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. So Erica says. Come on.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: It's a good metaphor, Mary Payne. The people are going
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: to comment and say, spot on, Kimberly. Okay. Mary Payne
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: just didn't get it.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: How deep the levels went. Just didn't study Little Mermaid
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: quite that deeply. So I apologize. I was more of
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: a Finding Nemo girl. Okay. So Erica says.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: She's better than me.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Erica says.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: She's not better than me.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Erica says, I was infuriated that she would do this
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: to herself when her voice was everything to her. And
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: her voice really was the way that she praised God,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: which was so important for her. And I told Micah,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I'm here for you. I care more about you and
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: what's happening to you than this church. And I want
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: to help you. I don't care about the church anymore.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: We need to get you some help. And I hope
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: you will call me if anything worse happens.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: She did have so many people trying to talk some
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: sense into her.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Pam, the pastor says, I don't know how
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: this happened, but somehow as if my phone was mirrored
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: with John Paul's, I was on this text chain with
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: John Paul and Mark. Now, how do you think this happened?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Do you think it was like an iCloud church thing?
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, I guess. It like a guest had logged in
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: on their iPad because their phone had fallen in the jacuzzi.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: And then after they left the boat, the people on
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: the boat, the workers were still able to see his
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: texts on the iPad, even though he had long left
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: the boat and they could see that he was flirting
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: with Hannah who worked on the boat. But it was
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: because he had at one point connected to that iPad.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that must've been what happened. It must've been
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: something with the church where she got on like a
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: church iPad, but he was connected or something. I mean,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: we hear this all the time on true crime where
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: it's always the iPad, right? It's like somebody sees something
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: on the kid's iPad because the kid's iPad is connected
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: to the iCloud.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: It's never a droid.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: No, it's never a droid.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Hashtag not sponsored. Okay.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: You know how I feel. So, um, she's, Pam is
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: now somehow on this check chain between John Paul and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: his best friend, Mark. And she, John Paul was at
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: home in bed with Micah, but sending Mark to the
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: airport to pick up a young woman who was coming
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in town to see John Paul. So who's this stranger
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: from out of town that he's bringing in?
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: He's just DMing the ladies and just luring them in.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Either they're being paid or not. I don't know the situation.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: They might have not been sex workers. But this friend, Mark...
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: who is his like flying monkey that does his dirty
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: work is so gross.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Like gross.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I hope he never knows a day of peace in
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: his life.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Same, same. And I hope his wife left him.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: So Pam says, I was horrified. I could not believe
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: what I was reading. And I went to church the
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: next morning and told John Paul, you have 24 hours
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: to tell the elders of this church what you're doing
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: or I am. And then she says, you know, elders
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: in any church, are there to oversee the pastor. So
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: the pastor doesn't have too much control. They can ask
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: for disciplinary action against the pastor and they can get it.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: They are the voice of the congregation. Yeah.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: I was also very worried for her. I was like,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: oh God, she gave him a timeline. She's going to die.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Be careful. But we are talking to her, so I
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: guess she's not.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Pam says, my integrity is on the line because now
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I'm associated with this church and these people. So now
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: my integrity is on the line if I stick around.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: So Mark, his number two, calls him and says, you
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: can't do this. We have to find a way to
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: change your mind. This would split the church apart. Remember
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: when it split apart when he was banging the 18-year-old?
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Remember that, his wife? You can't do this. And she says,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: The ball is already in motion. Like, this is what
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: you guys have done, not what I've done. So the
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: next day, she, Pam, a woman, meets with the elders,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: and they listened. But, nah, they're not going to do
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: anything about it. John Paul's great. Everybody loves him. He's
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: a great church leader.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: So, again, in a system where he's not supposed to
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: have absolute power, he has absolute power.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Right. She says, I learned the structure of the church
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: was the elders did not have power over the pastor.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: So I left the church. I wasn't going to be
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a part of this anymore. Good for you. Good for you, Pam.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Stand on your values. So Charlotte says, I hadn't seen
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Micah in a while because it seems like she had moved.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: And she says, so we got together and Micah looked horrible.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: She seemed sad. She seemed a shell of herself. And
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: we see her kind of sitting by this bonfire where
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: they met. And she said, and here at this bonfire
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: is where Micah told me about John Paul's affair with
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Susie Skinner. Now, Charlotte is all of us in that
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Charlotte says, Susie Skinner, as in her husband passed away
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: a year ago, Susie Skinner? Yep. And then we see
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Susie be bopping up to the stage. Hey, everybody. I'm
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Susie Skinner. I'm here to do some prayers for y'all. Now,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: the difference is Susie is that she is a blonde.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Because in the past, he had only gone for brunettes.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: And another difference for Susie, I feel like Micah did
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: not seek out to be the preacher's wife and in charge,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: like the queen of the church.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: And Susie desperately wants that and relishes in that role.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Once she gets there later, spoiler alert, she loves being
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the lady in charge.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: I kind of, I semi disagree with that because her
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: sisters did say, Micah's sister did say like, she took
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the role of pastor's wife very seriously. And she always
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to be like a leader in the church, you know?
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: But I feel like she really valued like what the
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: church did and she didn't want to harm the parishioners
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: by doing anything. You know what I'm saying? Like, whereas Susie,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: I get the vibe that it was more like about
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: the appearance of status, the status symbol of being the
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: lady in charge.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so here's a twist. We meet a woman named
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Tamara McDermott. Her brother was Chris Skinner, Susie Skinner's wife.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Susie Skinner was married to Chris Skinner who died. She
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: explains her brother Chris had been in an accident. He
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: was paralyzed from the shoulders down. And that's where he
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: met Susie because Susie was his physical therapist. We see Chris.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: He looks very cute. And they fell in love and
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: they got married.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: And I don't trust her.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously. But Chris started going to church with Susie,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: and he didn't love it, but he was like, all right,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I'll go. But kind of right away, he got the
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: ick from the pastor and didn't want to go and
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: also felt the pastor was hitting on his wife.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, his brain isn't paralyzed. He knows what's going on.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: And because of this, Chris went into a severe mental decline.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: because he was not being cared for or showered by
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: his wife. He started to feel he was a burden.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: So one day he decided to go to the church
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: so he could confront JP, who he felt was hitting
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: on his wife. And so this is unclear if it
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: happened or not, because the sister says he had decided
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: he was going to church alone without Susie there to
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: confront this pastor and But then the next thing is
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: we go to how he died. So I don't know
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: if he did get to confront John Paul or not.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: It wasn't told. So then she says the next day
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: or three days later or whatever, we got a call.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I got a call that my brother had been found
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: dead at the bottom of the community pool, like in
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: their apartment complex. And we see, you know, from it
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: looks like the like the camera footage from the ambulance
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: or whatever. We see John Paul and Micah coming up
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: to the scene and consoling Susie. And the sister says,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: John Paul was called before our family members were called.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: And I was so mad about that. We were told
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: he had accidentally fallen into the pool. But I feel
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: that it was an intentional act. I feel like he
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: gained information that devastated him.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like he was murdered. I feel like was,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: were Susie and JP wet when they arrived? I know
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: he probably unalived himself, but this is still, I would
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: be looking into this. Are there any cameras?
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: That's why I think, that's why I think he must
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: have unalived himself because if somebody saw somebody with him
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: going over to the pool, that would be on camera.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: We did have another dateline called Fallen in which a
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: man confronted the pastor that he was cheating with his
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: wife and then unalived himself right after. So this happens.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: So the funeral, of course, was held at the church
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: that he hated, Solid Rock. And we see.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Officiated by JP.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Officiated by JP, who's standing up there. He's grandstanding, talking about, Listen,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: if you have something to hold that holds you back,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: look at this guy. Like, how did he get this
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: hot mama from a wheelchair? So if you have like
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: a birthmark or something like, don't worry about it. You
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: got no excuse. This guy was in a wheelchair and
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: got this hot chick.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Who I started banging because she was so hot.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: What the fuck?
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: That's what your sermon is?
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: And then also like, he's no longer in a wheelchair.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: He's free. He didn't have to roll into heaven. He
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: was able to walk. Like, what are we doing? Awful.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: It's just so gross.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: So Tamara says, yeah, I didn't want to go to
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: the funeral there. And things did not add up with
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Chris and his wife and this pastor. So Micah is
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: back at the bonfire telling Charlotte, you know, I'm not
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: doing well, but JP has been telling me like, if
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: I leave, the church will split again. It'll be all
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: my fault. And I wrote up a marriage contract for
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: him and he has signed it. And it literally is like,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: we'll go to, on a date once a week, we'll
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: go to marriage retreats three times a year. We'll, you will, um,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: come on, let me look at the location on your phone.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: It was stuff like that. Um, and then we see
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: her recording him in the car saying he's been a
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: bad husband. He needs to honor his wife. And she's
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: the first lady of the church. And he was acting
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: awful out of fear. And he loves her. And he'll
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: do anything to get her back. Yeah.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: I just didn't feel like I was worthy of you.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: And I was scared that you would leave me. So
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I put walls up. And that's why I cheated. Okay, sir.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Okay. And the sisters go. And the truth is, Micah
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: did not want to be 30 years old and getting
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: a second divorce. She's like Ross on Friends. Didn't want
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: to get a second divorce.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And she loved the church, and she didn't want to
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: split up the church again.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: The church itself she loved. She loved the people. She
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: loved the whole thing because she had helped build there, right?
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: So Micah tells her therapist, you know, I'm struggling because
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: I want to leave him, but I love my church family.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: So three months after he signs this marriage contract, Victoria
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: and Nathan, her brother and his wife, see John Paul
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: and Susie getting coffee and holding hands right before worship service.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable. In public.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: In public. Right. At the church, at the coffee place
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: where probably a lot of people for the church go.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: And he told Micah and he said she was just
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: torn up. She, you know, keeps having to deal with
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: sexual immorality from a pastor.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: So Charlotte says she called, she spoke to Micah and
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: he was, she was like, he keeps doing it. He
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: keeps doing it. I feel dehumanized in the way he
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: treats our marriage bed and I'm going to file for divorce.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: She decided. So then we see Micah doing a video.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, she looks so much better.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: So much better.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: And she says, you know, God does hate divorce. That
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: is true. But God hates divorce because it hurts people.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: But does abuse hurt people? How does God feel about abuse?
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: My Bible says Jesus took all the abuse for you
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: so you didn't have to live that life of slavery
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: and bondage and pain and abuse.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Micah tells Bruna, my marriage was a horror. Sometimes we
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: would leave dinner and he would stop and pay a
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: homeless person $ 100 to grab a boob. Because the way
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: she said it, and I rewound it was, and I
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: played this for my husband too, $ 100 for her to
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: grab her boob. So pay the homeless person $ 100 to
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: grab Micah's boob? Yes.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I think he was And later, like, making homeless people
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: do threesomes. And I'm not sure if she was involved
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: in that. I think she might have been. Like, doing
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: sexual things with homeless, unhoused people and filming it.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: So that he would have this humiliating content that he
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: could later use on her, which is what the NXIVM
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: guy did.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: He said other times he would force her to allow
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: a man to finish on her. Yeah. So just pick up.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: A vagrant on the street. Give him $ 100.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Or his friends.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Mark. And jack off on my wife.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. Micah said she couldn't wash her skin enough
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: to ever feel clean, but she thought she was just
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: being obedient to what her husband wanted. And she says
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: at night, they may have had sex four times that day.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: So if it was nighttime and she would deny him,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: he would then not allow her to sleep. He would
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: wait till she was almost asleep and turn all the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: lights on or make noise. And eventually her body would
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: be hurt, but she would have to just accept it
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: so that she could sleep.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: That's a torture technique too. I just have no words.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Like the amount of abuse, different types of abuse that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: she suffered. And financial abuse we're going to hear about too.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: So we see more of his bullshit sermons, which again,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I just kept playing for David. He's like, what? So
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Micah tells Bruna that John Paul had kept pictures and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: videos of her and he used them to control her
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: and said, no church will ever want you if they
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: see this. So she was trying to protect the church
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: by staying with him. And Erica says, Bruna told me,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: what Micah had told her and the level of depravity
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: that was going on was unbelievable to me. And Erica
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: cries and says, I told my daughters, if you ever
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: see this man run the other direction.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Good for her. Don't even speak to him because.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: He'll try to talk to you. Probably he'll try it.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Cause her family, you know, they're all family. So then
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: we see Micah's journal saying she feels at peace. She
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: feels lifted. She feels happy. She feels so much better
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: now that she has, you know, finally gotten rid of
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: this demon. So the sisters say we all were finally
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: able to go to the beach. We see a picture
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: of all the sisters together on the beach. So we
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: could finally actually talk to her in private. She was
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: seeing straight for the first time. She was doing better.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: She wanted to get away from him. And we were
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: so happy. So she tells the biblical counselor lady, whose
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: name is Regina. came to me. Regina is the lawyer.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: What's the biblical counselor's lady? Is she Laura?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: She seems like a Linda to me.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I think she's Laura Hux. Okay. So she tells, she
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: told the biblical counselor, she's not going to have the
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: money to do this anymore. I'm not going to have
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: the money to come to this counseling anymore. And the counselor,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: Laura said, it's okay. Now we're coffee friends. And they
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: just started going out for coffee instead.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Because she was scared for her. Yeah.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: She was like, you don't have to pay for it,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: but I still want to be here for you. Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: She said, I felt a huge relief in Micah that
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: she had left him. And I also started to see like, oh,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: so she has no money because he also controlled all
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: the money.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: So Micah started working at a restaurant. She was independent.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: She was feeling great. She was hopeful for her future,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: but she could not get away from this guy.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: So....
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: One of the sisters tells about JP coming up while
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: she was having lunch with Micah. And she has him
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: on video going, you took my laptop. She's like, I
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: did not take your laptop. And as he turns and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: walks off and goes, your doctor's called me. Now remember,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: he's still her husband, so he still has medical, legal
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: control over her. So he told her doctor she was suicidal.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: So they needed to get her institutionalized so she could
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: get evaluated because she was having an episode with him.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: So she said, you know, she wasn't going to do that,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: but she was going to contact her doctor to let
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: her doctor know what was going on. But meanwhile, a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: church member called her and tricked her to meet at
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: this certain Starbucks. And when she got there, the cops
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: were there and took her in to put her on
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: a psychiatric hold. A church member did that to her.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: This church member... was being lied to by JP.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: So I don't totally blame them unless it's Mark, in
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: which case I want to kick him in the nuts.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: This church member was probably being told like she is
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: a harm to herself. You'll be doing such a huge
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: favor to me and you'll be saving her life if
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: you get her to come.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: So she went into a psychiatric hospital and when she
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: checked in, he took her phone, her laptop and her car,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: all things that she had in her name. And he
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: was going through her phone and impersonating her and posting
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: on Facebook as her. Her sister was like, I opened
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: the Facebook and there's 40 pictures of her and JP.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: And I wrote under it, this is not my sister.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Someone is impersonating her. So the person in charge of
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Micah at the hospital, this is Nate. Nate says, the
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: person in charge of deciding whether Micah had to stay
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: at the hospital called me and says, I can see
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: that she does not need to be here. And this
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: is a marital issue.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Even if they saw what was happening.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: All this is documented, right? So then we see stupid
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: JP preaching saying, and this is where you got this from,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: the only reason a man wouldn't want to touch a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: woman he's married to is because he doesn't like her.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And the only reason he would not like her is
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: because of her mouth. Wow. To which my husband said,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: you know, he has a point. No, just kidding.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: So now we see more of Micah posting about abuse.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: And she is literally saying sexual abuse, physical abuse, financial abuse,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: emotional abuse. She's saying all the kinds of abuses that
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: she endured. And she's trying to raise awareness for what
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: abuse is. And Nate says, you know, she used to
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: have a huge audience online, but it went down to nothing,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: of course, because people we're now being told by JP.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: She's crazy. She's in a psychotic episode.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: She's a liar.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She's in a psychotic episode. You can't believe anything
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: she says because, you know, just pray for her to
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: come out, to snap out of it, you know? So
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: on February 15th of 2024, Micah called the police and said,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: my estranged husband has been impersonating me online. People I
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: know I am in a hospital, but people I know
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: that haven't heard from me feared that he had killed
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: me and buried me somewhere. So I need, I need
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: it to stop. He's impersonating me online. She was, she
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: constantly started moving around. She would stay at Bruna's. She
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: would stay at other places so that John Paul would
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: not know where she was, but she landed on staying
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: mostly with Diana, Diana Niosi, another name I'm probably saying wrong,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: who was an elderly lady who was a former church
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: member and Diana says, we really thought of each other
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: as grandmother, granddaughter. I loved her so much and I
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: wanted to have her here and keep her safe. She
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: said if she moved in, she really wanted us to
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: get a ring camera so we could see who was
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: coming and going. So we have a lot of footage
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: from the ring camera.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I loved her too. She, I thought she was going
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: to fail us. I thought she was going to get
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: tricked somehow to like, to let him back in or
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: something like, but no, she.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: Was, Loved Laura, the counselor. Loved Diana, the old lady.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: And soon we're going to love Regina, the lawyer.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: This episode, I wrote that as much as... women have
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: been victimized by men in throughout history and by the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: church and have religious trauma. This episode was filled with
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: like strong women who are fighting back. You have the sisters,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: you have the biblical therapist, you have the roommate, you
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: have the lawyer, you have the other female preacher. It's
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: just like all of the friends at the church.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: It was, we have Nate's wife. We have the two friends. Yeah. So, um,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: he started sending her flowers every day. And one of
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: the cards literally said, I love you. I miss you.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: send nudes is that supposed to be funny.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: No i think it's a warning like look at how
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: many nudes i have on my phone with.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: You uh-huh all right and um then he was non-stop
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: texting her 53 calls in one day she kept changing
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: her number he kept finding it diana says someone was
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: giving him the number Yeah.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: How was he getting it?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: Did he know somebody that was like at the local
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: Verizon store or something?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, maybe. Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: But if she was getting burner phones. Yeah. Who was
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: telling him?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't think of anyone that was
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: interviewed that would have fallen for that.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Or like their spouse would have, you know, did Bruna
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: have a, like a, I don't know. Did Bruna have
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: a boyfriend that was doing it? You know?
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: No, she could be a mole anywhere. Yeah.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: We see Mark Kaufman calling Micah and going, hey, I'm
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: not calling. I'm not calling on behalf of JP. I'm
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: calling on behalf of Micah and JP. She's like, do
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: not call me again. I don't know how you got
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: my number, Mark. Get the fuck out of here.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: I hate Mark so much.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Then we see Micah calling the police about razor blades
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: that got put in her tires. And Nate says, every
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: time we called them, the police would say it's a
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: civil issue and they would do nothing. So then we
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: see JP preaching.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm just shaking my head. So if you
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: can't hear me, if you're just listening, I am aghast.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: And horrified that the police could not do more.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: JP is preaching. You know, everybody, my wife has been gone.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: She's left me. And I would like everybody in this
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: church collectively to pray for my wife to hit rock bottom.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: Because if my wife hits rock bottom, she will come
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: to her senses. My wife is mentally ill. The things
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: that she is doing are not her. She's in and
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: out of psychosis. I need all of you to pray
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: for her to hit rock bottom. So what he's saying
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: is if you see her online saying abuse, if you
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: see her online looking amazing saying I'm praying for you today,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: that's not her.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: And if you see her out on the street, text
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: me and tell me where she is.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Because I can't find her. And if you find out
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: her phone number, let me know.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: And also, if you find out later that I've been
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: sleeping with Susie Skinner, I was driven to it by
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: my crazy wife's actions.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: My wife was not home, so who was going to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: submit to me?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: Four times a day, yeah.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: An angel's not going to come down and do it.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: You have to do it. You're the wife, remember?
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Do angels give handies? I don't think so.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't think that's a requirement.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: So anyway, he's nonstop texting her, nonstop stalking her, Nate
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: finds a tracker on her car, takes it to the
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: police department, and they're like, can't do anything about it.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: And once they would find a tracker, he would just
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: put a new tracker on her car. He was like,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: it was constantly. And Nate has pictures of all the trackers, right?
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Because people are telling him where she is.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Or he's driving from house to house, a family member,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: to find her car.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: And putting a tracker on her car. Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: So he was threatening to ruin her image, said no
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: church will ever want you. And he posted a nude
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: photo of her on Facebook. It's a picture of her
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: in the mirror with her boobs out. So he says,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: he gets up on the pulpit and goes, hey, everybody, like, yeah,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: everybody's doing well. Everybody good today?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Listen, you guys know, you guys know I've been going
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: through a hard time, hard time. Can't even keep my
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: head straight. My wife left me a few weeks ago.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: We just won best church in Myrtle Beach four years
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: in a row. All right, let's get to preaching. This
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: man is fucking unhinged. If I was sitting there, I'd
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: be like, we have got to go. Like, if he
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: starts talking about submitting to your, we got to go.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: What is happening? Okay.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: My marriage isn't solid as a rock, but this church
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: still is. Am I right?
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Am I right? You know what else is? My penis. Okay.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Susie.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Susie. Susie Skinner, she's hot. She was married
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: to a guy in a wheelchair, but she's hot. Am
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: I right, fellas? So, Bruna says, I offered to pay
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: to send her to Kansas to be with her sister.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: And she said, nope, she had to stay. She did
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: not want to put her family at risk by leaving town. So,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I think she felt like her family in town would
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: be at risk and her family in Kansas would be
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: at risk.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: She should have gone.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: She should have gone.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Micah finds a lawyer, Regina Ward. God bless. If I
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: ever have anything happen to me in South Carolina, Regina
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Ward is a hero. Loved her. She goes, I punched
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: out my first bully when I was seven years old.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, queen.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Queen.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: With her perfect manicure and diamond rings.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Regina says, Micah was ready to divorce him. She
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: came to me for help. John Paul was spiraling and
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: menacing and then apologizing. And in one of his apology letters,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: he admitted to a lot of things he had done.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: So I was happy to have it. Happy to have it.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Literally words like, I vow to never let you go
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: into the hospital again against your will. I am sorry
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: for inviting other people from the street into our marriage. Jesus.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: I can't believe he was dumb enough to put this
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: on paper.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: He's constantly the one creating the group chats. Yeah. But
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: I was pausing and trying to read other things. And
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: it was a lot of this, I promise you, we
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: will have our home in Africa and you can go
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: visit it five times a year. It was several, several
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: mentions of a home in Africa. And we saw pictures
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: of her in Africa. So I wonder if they'd gone
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: on a mission there and she was like, I feel
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: very called.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: And this is where I should be. And that was
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: another thing he was holding over her head. Like we
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: can't go back to Africa because you're so sick.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: You're such a whore.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That too. So, Micah told Bruna, her friend, he's
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: going to put a bullet in my head and tell
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: everyone I killed myself. Part three. Here we go. What
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: happened to Micah is the name of this episode. So
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: we see John Paul preaching about growing up and hating
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: Christians because of his father. Now we're getting somewhere with
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: this motherfucker. Okay.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Pam tells us, yes, she knew Wayne. Wayne. John Paul's husband.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: John Paul's dad. So sorry, not his husband. Freudian slip.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: John Paul's dad was Wayne.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Homosexuality is a sin. Let's be real.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: However, Wayne had had some scandals. He had been arrested
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: for prostitution, exposing himself. He had had many outside relationships
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: with men and women. Wayne.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: The apple doesn't fall from the sex-obsessed tree.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: And Pam says John Paul was a victim of Of
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: his dad's passions and weaknesses.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not his fault. It's genetic.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: So do we think John Paul was also abused by
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: his father? And then we know that that's a pattern
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: that you have to break.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't even think of that.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: I thought of it immediately.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: I thought he just meant like, well, he was a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: sex addict, so I am too. It's not my fault.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Or this is how men are. This is how I've
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: been taught. This is how men behave. So this is, yeah.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: I thought he was a victim. Yeah.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, abusers sometimes do become, abuse victims do become
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: abusers sometimes.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes it's a pattern, especially if it involves children,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: But we don't have any record of JP with children. Well,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: except Micah, who was 13 when he met her.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Correct. So Pam says, I believed that John Paul wanted
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: to serve God's people to be a pastor. I did
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: not know the level of deception and I realized I
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: had been entirely wrong. So Bruna says, I met with
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Micah for a Bible study the day that she was
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: going to serve John Paul with divorce papers. And then
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: we see the big group texts with the family with
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: Micah saying, I did it. You know, he's been served
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: with divorce papers. I'm so happy. Regina, the lawyer, shows
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: us the request for the restraining order written in Micah's handwriting.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: The paperwork was served April 25th, but the hearing for
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: the restraining order was set for June 5th. And Regina says,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: too much time. There was too much time. She did
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: not know what he might do between those two times.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: It's a very vulnerable time for her.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's the most dangerous time for any woman is
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: when they're trying to leave an abusive relationship.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: That's right. And so Regina says.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: And waiting for the restraining order to kick in.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think a restraining order would have stopped him.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not that he would even follow it.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: So, you know, there's lists of things on that restraining order.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: He made me have relations outside my marriage with people
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: from the street.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: He.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: was listing a lot of the things that had happened
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: to her. These were the reasons in her own handwriting
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: she was requesting the restraining order. April 27th, two days
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: after Micah had JP serve divorce papers, Micah calls her
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: brother and says, I've got this job at this restaurant.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so afraid John Paul's going to show up. I
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's the same one she got when
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: she first left him or if this is a new job.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: This new restaurant was called J. Peters. She's like, I'm
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: so afraid he's going to show up. Diana says, I
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: prayed with her that morning, you know, and I hugged
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: her and she told me I need to be work
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: at 12. So I'm going to be back by 11
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: to get ready. So she had left the house at 10,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: 13 comes back at 11. We see she's got a Starbucks.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: She's obviously gotten some snacks. She's been to like the
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: Walgreens or whatever. Um, and she comes back at 11
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: and She leaves at 1138. She has a sermon playing
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: on her phone because she's that kind of person that
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: just listens to sermons instead of podcasts. And you could
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: see her on the door. Everything is completely normal. Like
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: I said, she's gotten a Starbucks. She's gotten some snacks.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: She leaves at 1138, presumably to be at work by 12.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: But at 1212, she arrives at Dick's Pawn Shop. So
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: this is going north outside of town. She buys a gun.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: This is on security camera. She just goes in and
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: buys a gun. I guess that's what you can do.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: You could just do that, I guess.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: I guess. 1240, she travels northbound. She keeps going. Now,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: she's supposed to be at work. She doesn't do that.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: She goes to buy this gun and then is driving north.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: At 127, she goes and buys gas for her car
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: and uses a port-a-potty, which I was like, oh, girl.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: 2.54 is when we hear, so about an hour and
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: a half later is when we hear this 911 call
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: that we heard at the beginning where she hangs up
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: on the 911 operator after asking to ping her location.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Diana says, I was texting with her when she was
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: supposed to be home from work. I was texting her
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: and she wasn't responding. 4.23. So this happens at a
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: little before three when she calls 911 at 4.23. So
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: just within 30 minutes. A person called 911 to say,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: we've just found a body in the river. Like so soon. 1039,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: we see police go to Diana's apartment on the ring camera.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: They're knocking on the door asking her, do you know
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Micah Miller? Do you know John Paul Miller? Do you
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: know John Paul Miller's phone number? And she says, yes, why?
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: And she says, Micah Miller has been found deceased. And
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: she says, what can you tell me what happened? And
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: the police says, I can tell you it was not
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: an accident. So the police mean either it was self-inflicted
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: or somebody did it, but they don't say that.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: So Diana says, then Susie Skinner's phone number popped up
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: on my phone and I went to answer it. And
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: it was John Paul saying, what happened? Calling from that
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: vicious phone.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: I can't. So Nate, Brother Nate and Victoria say, we
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: got the call. We didn't know what to think. We
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: were stunned. But of course, our first thought is, what
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: did John Paul do to her? The sisters, all the
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: sisters tell their reactions to the news. And they say,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: right after John Paul texted the group, the group chat
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: and said, this is what happens when you try to
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: encourage someone to divorce the person they love and tell
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: them they don't need medicine and they are not ill
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: when they are. Good job, Francis family. This is a
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: man of God, a pastor, writes the siblings of this
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: woman who has died and.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Says, I told you so.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: I told you so. This is what happens when you
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: try to get her to divorce me. Good job.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: Your sister's blood is on your hands.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh. Laura, the biblical counselor, says, I got a message
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: from JP saying, Keep you posted on the funeral. And
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: then he cuts and pastes this message to other people.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: To other people. Very similar. Bruna says.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: Her words to me in my house were, I do
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: not want to die. I want to live. I want
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: to honor God. I worry he's going to kill me.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: Charlotte and Erica, the friends, talk about how they were
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: just devastated. And they literally got notes on their phone
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: from Mark or JP saying, Micah died. Keep you posted.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: One day, well, I'd like to know what JP has
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: on Mark. It's got to be pretty bad.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: One day after her death, he takes to the pulpit
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: the next day. And other people are like, you know,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: my wife killed herself. I probably just maybe would take
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: that Sunday off.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: Well, they got married five days after she was out
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: of the mental hospital.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Time doesn't work normally for him.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: He says, hey, guys, guess what? It's so great today.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: So great. I've got a new parody song that I
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: made for the congregation. My friend Mark, I've been trying
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: to get him up here for 25 years. Come on, Mark.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Mark's going to sing. And it's a rendition of in
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night. I go walking in. But
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: it's in the middle of my life. I fuck my
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: friend's wife. I don't know what what the song is.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: But JP goes. you know, it's crazy. I do. I
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: see the Bible like a Steven Spielberg movie. I do.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: I see the dinosaurs and everything. What? Whatever. And then
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: he goes, anyway, guys.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: Which chapter had dinosaurs?
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: We're going to wrap it up. We're going to wrap
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: it up. Thanks, everybody, for coming today. Thanks for your tithes.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Thanks for everybody contributing to the bake sale. But listen,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: I got one more announcement and one more announcement. I
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: want to say the announcement and then I need everyone
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: to leave the building quickly quietly and not discuss the announcement. Okay.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: All right. So I got a call. This is after
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Mark sings and the Steven Spielberg movie. Okay. He says,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I got a call that my wife had passed away.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: It was self-deduce in North Carolina and there's going to
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: be a service next Sunday. I'll keep you posted. And
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: she was not well mentally and needed medication. So See
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: you later.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: And I told her family that, but.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: Deuces. Walks out.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: And another men are cigarettes up and does a prayer
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: and everybody's like, but they were.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Told not to discuss the announcement. Like it's a top
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: secret mission. Swallow this announcement after reading it.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: Now, a lot of stuff that I saw regarding this
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: death was a lot of this footage of him being like,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, my wife passed away. She wasn't doing well. Okay.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: See you guys next Sunday. Funeral, am I right? So
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: another minister gets up and does the prayer. Now, John
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Paul was, Nate says, John Paul was preaching. It was
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: a suicide before the coroner's report was out. Nate and
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Sierra both talked to the police and provided video, text messages, everything,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: all of the information about the stalking and all the
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: information they had. And they were reassured that they would
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: get justice. Yeah, right. Three days after her death, John
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: Paul is texting Diana, the lady where she lived, and said, hey, listen,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: I need to talk to you. Call me if you can.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: I need to come over there and get some of
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: my wife. He keeps saying my wife. My wife sings.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: I need to get her Bible, of course, her diaries,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: you know, and her two solid rock necklaces because, you know,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: we could resell those. I don't know.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: I know Susie wants them.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: Susie might want them because she's the first lady now. Mm-hmm.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: Diana says he was very anxious to get her diaries
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: because I'm sure he wanted to destroy them. Yes. So
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: I called Nathan immediately and said, get here as fast
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: as possible. He's trying to come and get her stuff.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: And one of the sisters goes, we went over there
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: and packed up her stuff. We looked around for anything
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: she could have left behind as a clue. She said
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: they were like feeling behind the headboard, under the mattress,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: like up under the, everything to see. Mm-hmm. And Nate
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: and the sister leave. And Diana says not five minutes
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: after they left, the front office calls to say, John
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: Paul Miller is here with the police officer. We hear
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: John Paul calling the police saying, like, I'm going to
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: need assistance here because I need to get all of
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: my wife's things. She was staying with this old lady
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: who just doesn't like me.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No mention that you have been filed for divorce
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: and that there was a potential restraining order against you.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: And stalking and everything.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: So Laura, the counselor says, John Paul called me and
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: tried to act very official and wanted to get all
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: the notes from our meetings, you know, for legal purposes, blah, blah.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: I told him I had no notes and that many
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: times we had shred what she said because we didn't
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: want to have it on our hearts. And when he
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: called me, it really caught me off guard. He asked me,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: when did you last talk to her? Did she share
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: her phone number? Because I'd like to know which number,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: and if it was a burner phone or not, I
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: need to know what level did she trust you. You know,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: the police are investigating the death, even though it's obviously suicide.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: The police are investigating, so I am trying to collect
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: evidence that I can destroy because it might look bad
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: on me.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: Laura says she was trying to find out all the
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: phone numbers she had so we can get all the
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: texts from those phones. So Regina, the lawyer, says, oh.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: He started calling my office incessantly. We hear the calls
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: and he goes, listen, I just wanted to tell you, like,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know what Micah told you. You know, she
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't well. She was fine, actually. We had an amazing marriage.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: That's a lie. That's a lie. When she was on
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: her medication, she was such a wonderful wife. None of
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: that is true. I loved her. No matter what. She's like,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: I will fucking take you down. I'm not scared of you.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: You know? It's like, I think you are representing my wife.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: You know I'm representing your wife because you got served paperwork.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: So let's just be accurate about the details, shall we?
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: I loved it. Every second of it. And he goes,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: you know, I have like 45 text messages telling everyone
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: she needs her lithium. I tell everyone she needs her lithium.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: It's like, sir.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: He's not used to a woman calling him out on
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: his BS.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: And you see her listening to the calls, just rolling
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: her eyes, like shaking her head. And he goes, you know,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: the toxicology report is going to come out in like
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: three weeks. And Regina says, did you ask for an autopsy?
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: And he says, no, we don't need one. And the
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: sister said within days of her passing, he had done everything.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: He had rushed the cremation, the memorial service, everything. So
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: that means there was no autopsy, which means they don't know.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: Which direction that bullet went in? Nothing.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I did see a chart. You did.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: You did. Okay.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's on the video really quick. They did like
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: register which direction the bullet like entered.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, they did.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And also it said eyebrow shading
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: or like because she had like tattoo eyebrows. And it
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: said that on the diagram. Interesting.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, are they going to know about my
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Botox in my autopsy?
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they will. They'll be like, forehead doesn't
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: move naturally.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: But why were there so many bullets? Okay, we're going
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: to get to it.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to get there. Because that's what I get
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: when I was trying to sleep last night. These are
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: the things that literally keep me awake. And I was
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: very excited I was talking to you about it. So
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: the sister said he had everything done. The sister said
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: we did not go to the memorial service. We said
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: we will honor her in another way. And at the
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: memorial service, he's doing that You know, and I laid
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: with her body. I laid with her body four times
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: in the last week. I even tried to raise her
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: from the dead. So you're going into the morgue and
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: laying on the slab? I don't think so, sir. They
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: are not allowing that. What are you talking about? I
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: spent time and laid with her body four times? Huh?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Did he? I felt that makes me think he tried
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: to have sex with her buddy four times. I mean,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: I laid with her biblically. And so she could be
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: mine one last time and I could show dominance over
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: her one last time.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: So the coroner does rule the death as suicide. And
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: the family says, we do not accept that. And Victoria says,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: I feel that Micah was lured to where she was found.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: And I believe she went and bought the firearm for protection.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: She would have never just driven out to the middle
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: of nowhere. So then we see the sisters posting on
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: social media, you know, we're not done fighting for our sister.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: We do not agree with this report. And Sister Sierra says,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he thought he could control all of this
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: and thought no one would stand up to him. Then
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: we see just quick clips of all the people on
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: TikTok and everywhere talking about the case, all the true
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: crime sleuths. All right, now we see a guy named
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: Rich McHugh of News Nation saying, I kept seeing people
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: talking about this case, so I just wanted to delve
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: into it. Her brother Nate shared with me an affidavit
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: written by Micah, and I think that was maybe the
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: restraining order thing, which was a roadmap to her grave.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: which I thought was an interesting turn of phrase. I
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: studied the videos that she had recently posted, and I
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: just wanted to retrace her steps on that last day.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: When they find her, she's face down in the river.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: Two spent casings. Two spent casings. When you shoot yourself,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: do you have to do it twice?
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The only thing is, yeah, and then one unspent, right?
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: One unspent.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: So did she cock the gun and like dispense one
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: or one? Maybe she was practicing.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: But it would. But she she only had.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: To one wound. Although she had like multiple skull fractures
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: here and here. But the wound, the bullet wound went
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: inside and outside.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: So. So why was there one bullet left on the ground?
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: unspent live round and why were there two where was
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: that where's the second bullet right they didn't find where
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: it came out the other side so it wasn't inside
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: her body.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: Right it wasn't inside her body she only shot herself
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: once it.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: Appears so he says there was two spent cases and
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: one live round on the bank of the river her
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: body was found a hundred feet away from where that
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: was The river has little to no current, and so
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: something would not move. It does not add up.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: Well, especially because she was found within like a half
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: an hour, you said. So she traveled that far in
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: a hundred, in half an hour is strange.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you're imagining it's a shallow little river, so
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: somebody's in it face down and there's no current. It's
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: not going to move.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: They're not moving.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So... Finally, he says, you know, John Paul agreed
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: to talk with me on camera for News Nation. And
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: he brought a binder with her, which he said was
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: his evidence binder. And it was just all her medical
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: records of all her mental illness. And he's showing it
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: to him like this one time when she was Miss
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: America and this other time when she was Miss Myrtle
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Beach High School. And then this other like he's pointing
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: it out like it's like fun information. Right. And he goes,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: but we sit down to talk. And before I could
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: ask a question, he's like, bawling crime. So he says,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: he just like looks over at his producer, like, what
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: do we do? And he says, can you explain to
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: me why you're so emotional? And John Paul says, people just,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: they don't care to hear the truth. They just, just
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: want to hear whatever. They want to hear whoever's the loudest.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: And Rich says, okay, so. He says he's crying. He's
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: acting hysterical. And then he asked this question. Do you
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: think you bear any responsibility for Micah's death? And all
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: of a sudden he perks up and goes, yes. Great question.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: Woo.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: Great question. Yes. Okay. Let me think about. Okay.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: That is a good question. You know, if I could
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: do it differently. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. If I could
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: do it differently, I would not involve her family when
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: she was having mental episodes.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: Um, Is he on cocaine?
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: First of all, the question was not if you could
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: do it differently. The question was, do you bear any
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: responsibility for the death?
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: Right. And he somehow is able to flip it and
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: blame her family.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: And acts like this is the first time he's thought
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: of this, which any person who has someone in their
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: life that has unalived themselves probably has already thought is...
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: is this my fault? Could I have done anything differently?
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, of course.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: And yet he is acting like this is the first
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: time he has thought of this.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: And also, that wasn't the question. The question was not,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: what would you do differently? So the sister says, yeah,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: that's crazy. He was trying to say we told her
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: not to take her medication. And that was, of course,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: not true. He was the one who kept medication from
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: her She told us she was trying to wean herself
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: off her medication. And all of us told her, you
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: need to seek medical advice. Don't just do that. So,
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: and then they show that in the group text, you know.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: So Rich says, now, where were you when she died?
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: He goes, I was at a soccer tournament in Charleston
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm not a detective, but I watched a lot
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: of Scooby-Doo growing up. And that's what everybody's acting like,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: like they're part of the mystery machine. But my Lord,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: let my wife lie in peace.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: He goes, I was with a hundred people. There's a
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: hundred people that can vouch for me. I have an alibi.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: Where was Mark Kaufman? Yeah.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: Where was Mark? Where was Mark's phone?
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: So Rich says, none of this sets well with me.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: It seems like a woman trying to escape abuse. And
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: I've learned a term recently called murder by suicide. Um, which,
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: you know, could also apply to Chris Skinner. And the
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: community was starting to really see who J.P. was. And
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: then we see all these protesters and J.P. like walking
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: out of the church like, hey, how y'all doing? Hey. God,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: am I right? Woo! Woo! Great sign. I love your sign.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: Blaming me. Oh, blood on my hands.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: Woo-hoo!
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: I have the blood of Christ in me.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Woo-hoo! So we see him. High-fiving the protesters. And Charlotte,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: the friend, says, no matter who pulled the trigger, it
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: was his fault. The blood is on his hands. Yeah.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: Then we see John Paul doing a video about all
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: the abuse he's been receiving. And he's just, somebody feels.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: Sorry for me. I'm so sorry, buddy.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: The producers ask the siblings, as of today, no charges
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: have been brought against John Paul. But we hear the
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: FBI has opened an investigation. Have they contacted you? And
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: Nate says, I'm not really sure how much I should say.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: The FBI investigation is open. And we're not sure what
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: the FBI is looking for. But we're just hoping somehow
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: it gets justice for Micah. Charlotte says she, too, has
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: spoken to the FBI. Erica says she has spoken to
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: the FBI. Bruna has spoken to the FBI. Regina, the lawyer,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: spoke to the FBI and gave all her information. they've
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: all shown them everything they have, every text, every picture, everything.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: And Regina, the lawyer says, I have all 511 of J.P.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: Miller's sermons downloaded. And he always said, I never preach
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: about anything unless it's happening in my life. So Laura,
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: the counselor says, the FBI asked me if I was
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: in good standing with John Paul. And I said, well,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: we're not in bad standing. And they said, do you
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: think he would talk to you? And I said, Yeah,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: I think he would. So there was a ruse where
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: they needed him to leave his home because he wouldn't
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: leave his home. I had no hesitation. So I asked
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: to meet him. I told him I had located some
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: documents from my sessions with Micah. And he said, yes,
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: he would love to see those documents. And he suggested
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: we meet at Starbucks. Yes. Yes. Love the biblical counselor.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: Love.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: Biblical counselor involved in a sting operation.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: Love.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: And so the FBI goes into his home for a
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: raid and, you know, takes all his computers, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: the things that they take. And we see the protesters
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: have arrived to the raid in their shirts. You can't
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: hide from the FBI. You can't hide. And he's like,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: how are you doing? How are you doing? Me, jump on. Yeah.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: And Laura says the.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: FBI probably tried to bang some of the FBI.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: Like I heard this phrase on a podcast called a
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: date with Dateline. It is FBI candy. It's something Kimberly
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: came up with. And that lady over there is a
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: hot mama. Do you think she do me?
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: Listen, a lady with a gun. Am I right? So Laura,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: the counselor says the FBI told me he will know
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: it was you that got him out of his house.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: And so I said, okay, I don't care. And when
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: it was over, I just wanted to know, what did
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: he say? And they said, he only said, you used
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: Mike as counselor? And she's like, mm-hmm.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: So good.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised he didn't text her. Like, you have gone
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: against the Lord and, you know.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Definitely don't bang your husband four times a day. So
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: all her friends are like, we just need the truth.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: And he needs actual legal consequences. And he needs to stop.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: parading as a pastor. Okay. Now we're getting towards the
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: end here. We get the black screen of death that
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: tells us in December, 2025, a federal grand jury indicted
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: John Paul Miller on two counts, one count of making
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: false statements to federal investigators during the investigation of Micah's death.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: What was the false statement? I mean, what wasn't a
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: false statement, I guess. One count of cyber stalking, alleging
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: a pattern of harassment towards his estranged wife, Micah, November
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: 2022 to April 2024 for two years.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: I have so many questions. That's not enough. Many more charges.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: And maybe they are.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: Why is it just cyber stalking when he was putting
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: trackers on her car and following her around?
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: There has to be some charge of like, maybe this
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: is including in the cyber stalking, the like revenge porn
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: aspect he had going of like threatening to, you know,
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: all of that. And why are none of those charges
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: being brought of all the sexual abuse? None of that.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: So many questions.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: Well, we see a clip of him saying.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: But the police weren't doing anything.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: Her ties were never slashed. And there was never a
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: naked picture anywhere. I mean, ever. That was just like
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: a made up thing. Yeah, right.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: There's proof.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So maybe that was one of his lies, right?
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: Another black screened death. John Paul Miller entered a plea
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: of not guilty on federal charges. He has not been
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: charged in connection with her death. But thank the Lord
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: there is redemption for him because he has his third
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: wedding with Susie Skinner. Yeah.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: To be clear, not his third wedding with Susie. His
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: third wedding period with Susie.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: Again, first wife, we'd like to hear from you. Yes. Allison,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: come on the show.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: Allison, come forth.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: I get why she's not, though. I would not feel safe.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't feel safe. And also, it seems like he
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: never sees his kids. So she's like, let's just keep
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: this separate and let me keep the kids.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, the kids are going to know about all of this, too.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: The sex stuff.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Bruna says, Micah Miller is dead. And Chris Skinner
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: is dead. And now they're together. It angers you. It does.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: And Chris's sister says, at least I know now it
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: was all true. Because now they officially got married. She says,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: at least I know it was all true. He was
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: having an affair with her. The Solid Rock Church is,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: the building is for sale. Yeah. the members and John
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Paul are meeting at random locations in Myrtle beach. And
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: whoever it was, was like, I saw they'd met at
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: one place called the rat hole. And that was, and
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: you see these tiny little rooms.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: That room was claustrophobic.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: It's like the, the width of a plane and has
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: chairs across as a plane. So you're like this.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: No, he has 15 to 20 people attending services. Susie,
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: of course is leading, um.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: How would they afford to stay afloat with that small
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: of a congregation? That's barely enough money for him to
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: embezzle money from, which I'm sure he's been doing all
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: along to pay for his habits.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure Susie has another job that's keeping him afloat.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: She's a physical therapist.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he might still have her be working.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: Be careful.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: Also, churches are exempt from taxes. Just remember that. Yeah.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: The family says we're happy he was brought on charges
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: of something, but it's only a fraction of what he did.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: Now we are ending with all the family members out flowing,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: throwing off flowers in the ocean. And Nate says, this
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: is a story about a real person. He tortured her
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: in every way possible, including using the Bible against her.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: The police could not help her because they were married.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: So Nate, In South Carolina, there is a proposed legislation
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: called Micah's Law aimed at strengthening protections against stalking and
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: coercive control. If passed, it would make coercive control a
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: felony offense carrying a sentence of up to 10 years
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: and broadening the legal definition of domestic abuse.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: Because apparently in that state and probably a lot of others,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: you can't, it's not stalking if it's your spouse. That's insane. Right.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: It's just like, it's not great if it's your spouse. Exactly.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: Which is just now being changed.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: Like this year, practically.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: So the sisters say she loved the church and she
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: loved the people in the church and she believed in
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: loving everyone and celebrating life and helping everyone around you.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: She was here. I think she would remind everyone that
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: life is fleeting. You should live it to the fullest.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: And then at the end, we get John Paul Miller
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: and Susie Skinner were given an opportunity to respond to
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: the events alleged in this documentary but declined to comment.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, we say, if you or someone
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: you know is struggling with their mental health or has
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: experienced domestic abuse, information and resources are available at wannatalkaboutit.com.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: So do you think, as we're ending this, do you
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: think She did unalive herself. She was pushed into it
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: mentally by him. Or do you think she, like Victoria says,
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: she was lured out there to meet someone, bought a
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: gun for protection?
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: I am 30, 70. I think most likely she unalived
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: herself and was driven to it. And he should be
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: charged 100%. If they can charge Michelle Carter, the eyebrow
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: chick who, Encouraged that boy. Encouraged her boyfriend to unalive himself.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: And she was charged with involuntary manslaughter, I believe. Let's
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: bring that on here. I think that's what most likely
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: happened because I think it's a horse, not a zebra.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: But I think if we had his phone, we would
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: know more because if it wasn't him, if he was
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: with other people, he got someone... like Mark or someone
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: else that was from the church to bring her out
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: there and she brought a gun for protection. And maybe
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: it was, we will give you all of the sexual
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: images of you if you meet us out here. Okay.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: Something like that. Yeah. And then forced her at gunpoint
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: to make the 911 call. That's the only thing I
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: can think of.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: I'm with you on all of it. And now the
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: whole thing of like, if you just come out here,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: we're going to give you all these files and it's
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: going to be over. He wants us to meet you
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: out here and give you all these files. But there's
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: no way to, they would have to know if any
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: of that happened by her various phones. And maybe that's
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: another reason he wanted to know.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: To what phone? Yeah, because it would be on her
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: phone too, unless someone had slipped her a note or
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: something saying, we will meet you here unless it was
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: kept all off digital. Like if he was meeting with
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: someone at the church and saying, you're going to get
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: her to the woods, blah, blah, blah. And in, he
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't texting anyone or if he does, he have burner
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: phones that he's talking to a hit man on, you know?
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: But she, you're right. She would have to have had
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: some communication instructing her to get out there.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because he, she wouldn't go if it was him. Yeah.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: But she would go maybe if she thought a woman.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: A female, exactly.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: Where was Susie?
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: Great question. Was she at the soccer game?
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: Susie's got to be pretty strong to be a physical therapist.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: But I also think it's quite likely that she was
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: pushed to it. And she was 100% pushed to it.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, I, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm 50, 50. I'm,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: I am 50. I am split down the middle of
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: thinking it just is what it is and it is
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: what it appears. Um, and then I'm 50% like, but
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: they say she said over and over and over. If
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: this happens, he did it. Exactly.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: Which makes me think, um, she, Do you think she
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: had said that so many times? If he did it,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: he will put a bullet in my head and tell
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: everyone I killed myself. Do you think she did it
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: that way to throw suspicion onto him?
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: No. And I also think if she did do it,
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: another reason I think she didn't is because she journaled
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: so much that she would have written something before she
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: did it.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: Like a note?
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: Or just a journal to her family? Yeah, just a
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: journal to herself because she was journaling every single day. Yeah.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: Although if she's in the midst of some sort of
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: mental break, whether by stalking stress or by her own
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: medical health issues, she might not have left a note.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: Or been thinking clearly like that.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: You just have to think what happened between when she
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: talked to Diana in the morning, went and got her Starbucks,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: came back, got ready for work, left at 1148 to
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: get there by noon and didn't go to work and
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: kept driving.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: Well, a lot of times it's a spur of the
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: moment decision, which I just read recently. She also was
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: like smiling to the person at the pawn shop.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: Which is sometimes like this piece that comes when you
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: feel like you finally made the decision and you're going
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: to do it. but could also mean like she's thinking
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: it's almost going to be over because I'm going to
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: get these images and I'll be free from this man.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really in 50-50. I'm curious.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like I don't have all the information because
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: I haven't done all the deep dives and I feel
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: like the Reddit people probably know more than I do.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: So I'm excited to hear from your listeners about like
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: what we're missing and if there's more facts besides the
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: bullets and where her body was, they would indicate that
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: it was not suicide.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing this morning. I was like, God,
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: I wish I had had more time to do like
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: a deep dive and come with like things that were
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: not in the documentary are these things. I will say
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: that Kate Casey interviewed the director, producer or something. I
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: haven't listened to it yet. But she posted about it,
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: and I posted under it and said, I'm actually going
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: to be covering this, and I'm so glad you're– I'm
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: going to be interested to hear your interview. And a
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: person that had a, like, Jesus Saved Me by Grace
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: something Instagram, or that was their– wrote, her parents did–
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: her parents were not on board with this documentary and
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: were very upset by it. And I clicked it, and
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is like a member of
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: that church. Yeah. I wrote under it, every one of
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: her siblings were heavily involved.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: I trust the siblings much more than I trust the parents,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: to be honest.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: We don't know anything about the actual dad.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: The parents could have been on board with JP because
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: he was the pastor.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: Obviously, whoever wrote that to me, you click it and
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: it's just nothing but pictures of sunrises and you know, angels.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, JP, get out of here.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: And then I got scared. That's it, everybody. Thank you
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: so much for listening to this bonus episode. If you're
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: listening on the free feed, it's a bonus episode and
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: it's a bonus episode for Pink Shade Prime. I've loved
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: talking to my friend Kimberly about it. We don't get
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: to talk about true crime very often.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: I know. I We might have to do a follow-up
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: when we get outside information from people.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's do. Let's do a follow-up when we get
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: outside information. And if you're listening on the free feed,
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: you missed it. Last week was our Pink Shade Live.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: If you're listening on Pink Shade Prime, don't forget, our
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: live is on Thursday, 8 p.m. The email link is
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: in your inbox. If you didn't get it, please email
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: Ingrid at PinkShadePodcast.com.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: Blame Ingrid.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: No, don't blame me. That's it, everybody. And we'll see
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: you whenever we do the follow-up for this. Okay, bye.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: Bye, take care of yourselves.