Latest / Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories / Weathered the Storm with Amber Gregory | Ship's Log 13

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Weathered the Storm with Amber Gregory | Ship's Log 13 · Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories

• 0:02
  Jeanne: Our guest today is Amber Gregory, a mom, author, and passionate advocate for children who have faced trauma.
• 0:09
  Jeanne: Her first book, Little Sweetheart, shares her own journey of healing after sexual abuse, and her second, Learning to Be Loved, explores how adoptive families can help children rediscover trust and connection.
• 0:21
  Jeanne: Amber is pursuing her master's in theology and ministry, following her call to serve foster and adoptive families with compassion and hope.
• 0:29
  Jeanne: She speaks and teaches on topics like grooming, the cycle of abuse, and healing attachment wounds, always with the goal of helping children feel safe and deeply loved.
• 0:40
  Jeanne: Amber believes that love, education, and inclusiveness can transform lives, whether through her books, workshops, or conversation with parents, she continues to shine a light on how families can build bonds that heal.
• 0:53
  Jeanne: Amber, hello.
• 0:55
  Amber: Hi.
• 0:56
  Jeanne: It's nice to see you again.
• 0:57
  Jeanne: Welcome to Project Candor.
• 0:59
  Amber: Excellent.
• 1:00
  Amber: Thanks for having me.
• 1:01
  Jeanne: I'm really glad you're here and I got a lot of questions for you.
• 1:04
  Jeanne: After getting to know you, I know we share a similar bond of being adoptive parents.
• 1:09
  Jeanne: But I have questions for you.
• 1:11
  Jeanne: Are you ready to go?
• 1:12
  Amber: I'm ready to go.
• 1:13
  Amber: Hit me.
• 1:13
  Jeanne: Yay.
• 1:14
  Jeanne: S o before the books, before the advocacy, before the version of you who speaks with clarity and purpose, who were you back then?
• 1:23
  Jeanne: Like as a child growing up in New York?
• 1:26
  Jeanne: And how would you describe the way you saw yourself and your place in this world?
• 1:31
  Amber: So my family is on the dysfunctional side, but they were not abusive and they really loved their kids.
• 1:38
  Amber: So I have to say, I grew up in a family that I felt like I belonged.
• 1:43
  Amber: You know, I felt really loved.
• 1:45
  Amber: I felt like I was part of the things.
• 1:47
  Amber: Even though my parents have their flaws, they were great at loving their kids and making everybody feel like they were included and welcome.
• 1:54
  Amber: And um, so I was one of those kids.
• 1:56
  Amber: I just beboped around.
• 1:58
  Amber: I was happy go lucky.
• 1:59
  Amber: It's actually probably why I was targeted when I was 12 because I was pretty naive, very naive, didn't think anybody would ever hurt me.
• 2:06
  Amber: You know, my mom would always say, People are pretty much good.
• 2:09
  Amber: So I believed her.
• 2:10
  Amber: Okay, people are good.
• 2:11
  Amber: Everybody's there to help me.
• 2:12
  Amber: But it can make you a target, you know, to be that naive.
• 2:16
  Amber: However, I I can't complain.
• 2:18
  Amber: I mean, I can't complain how my parents raised me.
• 2:21
  Amber: They did the best they could.
• 2:23
  Amber: I mean, they had their own stuff that they worked through and had to deal with, but I was glad.
• 2:28
  Amber: I had a lot of freedom.
• 2:29
  Amber: They weren't very attentive parents.
• 2:32
  Amber: But luckily for me, I don't like getting in trouble.
• 2:36
  Amber: So I pretty much just followed the rules.
• 2:38
  Amber: And uh, but I had lots of freedom to explore and to do what I wanted to do.
• 2:43
  Amber: So that was me, you know.
• 2:45
  Amber: That was me even after age 12, uh, was when my dance teacher targeted me and then abused me.
• 2:52
  Amber: But even after that, you know, this is actually common for a lot of people that go through that thing.
• 2:57
  Amber: I didn't ever blame him.
• 2:59
  Amber: So I never did get like wary of people, you know.
• 3:03
  Amber: The way he twisted it, I sort of blamed myself, and I thought, okay, I need to be smarter next time and not get myself into that situation, even though he was older than me and he pretty much manured me.
• 3:14
  Amber: So even after that, I still had kind of a happy-go-lucky outlook on life.
• 3:19
  Jeanne: So Yeah, that's hard.
• 3:21
  Jeanne: I know I grew up, you know, a little sheltered, but I was pretty naive as well.
• 3:25
  Jeanne: I do remember my dad um one time stood in line to get an autograph of an NFL football player and brought that autograph home to his girls because at that time my baby brother was just born.
• 3:39
  Jeanne: And we were all excited, we had a football player's autograph.
• 3:44
  Jeanne: And then I remember the day that he came and snatched that uh back from us and said, I need to take this back.
• 3:50
  Jeanne: And then he had to explain that the man had exposed himself to women on the side of the road, which we were like, Ew, what does that mean?
• 4:00
  Jeanne: And we had he had to tell us in a gentle way what it was, but that disgusted me for so long.
• 4:05
  Jeanne: And I still walked around super naive.
• 4:08
  Jeanne: I I don't know, I just never felt people were bad, but I do know now there can be some of those.
• 4:14
  Amber: It's actually a a trait, like when you profile what kids are more likely to be targeted.
• 4:21
  Amber: Naive, overcompliant, eager to please, you know, those are traits that many, many victims share.
• 4:29
  Amber: You know, they're unfortunately easy targets.
• 4:33
  Amber: And they're just good kids.
• 4:34
  Amber: I mean, that's like in my book.
• 4:35
  Amber: I say, I mean, I the name of the book is Little Sweetheart, because I'm like, they're just good kids, you know, they're always helping.
• 4:41
  Amber: You know, pick me, pick me.
• 4:43
  Amber: Can I help out?
• 4:43
  Amber: Can I stay after and give you a hand?
• 4:45
  Amber: And they're just these really nice, sweet kids.
• 4:48
  Amber: And then something bad happens to them because they are so nice and sweet.
• 4:52
  Amber: It's sad for me that it's you know, it's not the street smart kids.
• 4:56
  Amber: Boy, those kids they can see it coming.
• 4:58
  Amber: But the kids that just have no clue, they don't they never see it coming.
• 5:03
  Jeanne: Yeah, that's so sad.
• 5:05
  Jeanne: That is so sad.
• 5:05
  Jeanne: It is, it is.
• 5:07
  Jeanne: Your work, and in looking at some of your uh books, your work reflects a lot of lived wisdom.
• 5:13
  Jeanne: Was there a moment or maybe a season when you realized your life experience could actually help others, not just sh shape you privately?
• 5:22
  Amber: Yeah, I think uh during COVID, I had a lot of time on my hands, right?
• 5:26
  Amber: And I had this dream, right?
• 5:28
  Amber: And I was already feeling called into ministry, but I hadn't gone to seminary yet or anything, but I had this dream about God.
• 5:34
  Amber: And it was a sweet little dream.
• 5:36
  Amber: It's actually the opening of my little sweetheart books, and it's like God was talking to me in the dream and showing me my life like it was a roller coaster ride, and that God was always there with me, you know, through the ups and downs.
• 5:48
  Amber: So during COVID, like I said, I had time on my hands, so I I thought I'd sit down and write a nice little story about God being your soulmate, right?
• 5:56
  Amber: Like God's your soulmate and he's always there for you, and you're always looking for a person down here on the earth.
• 6:02
  Amber: But, you know, if you realize it, the only person that's really always connected to you is God.
• 6:07
  Amber: And I thought it was gonna be this really nice story.
• 6:10
  Amber: So I I examined my life, you know, from what I could remember, and it got stuck at age 12.
• 6:16
  Amber: And I was like, ooh, I don't want this to be a book about sorrow, I don't want this to be a book about abuse, and I, you know, like I wanted it to be this nice little spiritual book, and I kept writing it, and as I kept going through it and examining my life, and then looking into like research on the topic and things like that, and writing that in, because the book has a lot of education on what happens and you know what's going on in the mind of the child, and like just how parents could protect their kids and teach them in a way that isn't making them afraid of everybody in the planet.
• 6:52
  Amber: But I cried, you know, and there was things that I brought up that I hadn't really looked at in in so many years.
• 6:59
  Amber: I mean, I dealt with it in counseling in my 20s, I looked at it again in my 30s, I thought I was all set.
• 7:04
  Amber: And I was crying as I was writing this book.
• 7:07
  Amber: So I just kept writing.
• 7:09
  Amber: And I got to the end of the story, and um, I had an editor who was helping me bring it up to a more professional level.
• 7:17
  Amber: I'm a math science girl, I'm not a writer.
• 7:20
  Amber: And I have two books now.
• 7:21
  Amber: I have two books now.
• 7:22
  Amber: And the first book actually was picked up and published.
• 7:25
  Amber: Like it wasn't a self, it's not a self-published work.
• 7:28
  Amber: It's I got a publisher, which is hard.
• 7:31
  Amber: And it's a story that I guess needed to be told, you know, but it was therapeutic.
• 7:37
  Amber: You know, I I I cried a lot when I wrote it.
• 7:40
  Amber: I realized looking at it at age almost 50 when I wrote it, I could look at myself at age 12 and say, that's sad.
• 7:50
  Amber: And it wasn't my fault.
• 7:52
  Amber: You know, when I was 12 and maybe even in my 20s, I just kept thinking, man, I was really stupid and I should not have let that happen.
• 8:02
  Amber: And as I examined it this time and was writing it out, I could see my 12-year-old self and I could say, God, I I didn't deserve that.
• 8:12
  Amber: You know, I really didn't.
• 8:14
  Amber: And it was good.
• 8:15
  Amber: And I thought, other people need to hear that.
• 8:18
  Amber: This is not your fault.
• 8:19
  Amber: This is not you, you know, you didn't deserve this.
• 8:23
  Jeanne: No, I don't even know what to say.
• 8:25
  Jeanne: That's taken me to a thought in a place I don't really want to um experience.
• 8:31
  Jeanne: I just can't imagine.
• 8:33
  Jeanne: I mean, I get upset over the simplest things, you know, people cheating me in stores or tricking me into buying something I really don't want.
• 8:41
  Jeanne: And but being a child, and then you have these emotions and you've done something that you're blaming yourself for.
• 8:48
  Jeanne: And then as you get older, then the older you says, you were stupid.
• 8:52
  Jeanne: And that's another whole level of blaming yourself.
• 8:56
  Jeanne: And then you get up to this point.
• 8:58
  Jeanne: So I'm so glad that you were able to write this story.
• 9:01
  Jeanne: And that kind of leads me into the next question I had.
• 9:04
  Jeanne: So you've written these stories on a deeply personal topic, both of your books, but you do so with intention and professionalism.
• 9:14
  Jeanne: How did you decide how to tell your stories, like what to include, what to protect, and what mattered most for readers to understand?
• 9:22
  Amber: So, with the little sweetheart book, that's about grooming and the cycle of abuse, that book just tumbled out of me.
• 9:27
  Amber: I wrote it in three months, and then we started chopping it around, and that just was like came right out.
• 9:34
  Amber: But the reason I started writing that one is because I was actually starting what is now my second book, which finally got published.
• 9:42
  Amber: And I sat down to write that book because a counselor I was seeing, and a counselor my daughter was seeing in the same week, two different counselors said to me, Your daughter couldn't have had rad because it has a terrible prognosis.
• 9:57
  Amber: Kids don't get cured from that.
• 9:59
  Amber: And I said, Oh no, she had it, and she had it bad.
• 10:02
  Amber: It was a serious attachment disorder, but she's great now.
• 10:05
  Amber: And the counselor's like, it couldn't have been that.
• 10:08
  Amber: Like, what did you do?
• 10:09
  Amber: And I'm like, Well, there's lots you can do.
• 10:11
  Amber: We met this guy, he was a doctor, he told us how to parent her.
• 10:14
  Amber: And then in the same week, she was 12 or 13 and going to some counseling because she was having some problems in junior high.
• 10:21
  Amber: And her counselor called me into the office and she's like, Amber, I just have to ask you.
• 10:27
  Amber: Your daughter tells me that when she was little, she had rad.
• 10:30
  Amber: Is that true?
• 10:31
  Amber: And I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, it was big time true.
• 10:35
  Amber: She's like, You have to write a book.
• 10:37
  Amber: She goes, I have families on my sofa with kids that they just don't know what to do with, and I have nothing to offer them.
• 10:44
  Amber: So I was like, I heard it twice in the same week, and I'm like, I'm gonna sit down and write a book.
• 10:49
  Amber: And then the book started coming out in pictures.
• 10:53
  Amber: Like, remember this scene in our lives, remember that face that she made, remember how I felt.
• 10:58
  Amber: Yeah, because the book has a lot about how frustrated and angry I was getting as a mom because she kept defying me and I couldn't get a handle on it.
• 11:06
  Amber: And I'm not an artist, so I had to find an artist who could do pictures.
• 11:11
  Amber: So the book has just a small amount of words, but these pictures, I'm so glad I found this artist and she was willing to take on this book with me.
• 11:19
  Amber: There's 110 pages, and almost all of them have a picture to go with them.
• 11:23
  Amber: So in the time I was waiting for illustrations, that's when Little Sweetheart and that whole chapter book just kept coming out of me.
• 11:31
  Amber: So it's just, I don't know.
• 11:33
  Amber: I never ever thought I'd write ever.
• 11:36
  Amber: I'm really English was not my favorite subject.
• 11:41
  Jeanne: Oh, well, that's interesting to note because your books are very easy to pick up and read.
• 11:47
  Jeanne: And I've read a chapter or two in each.
• 11:49
  Jeanne: I just got them.
• 11:50
  Jeanne: Thank you for sending them to me.
• 11:52
  Jeanne: But I I really find your writing style to be very easy to digest.
• 11:58
  Jeanne: So that's excellent.
• 12:00
  Amber: People tell me that all the time.
• 12:01
  Amber: They're like, it's like I was you were sitting in my living room and we're just talking, and I'm like, I don't know why, but they are in a conversational way, and you just kind of read on it.
• 12:12
  Amber: And I mean, they're not on easy topics.
• 12:14
  Amber: They're the subject matter can be really hard or sometimes dark.
• 12:18
  Amber: But for some reason, I don't know, the way it all came together, neither book is about sorrow.
• 12:25
  Amber: I mean, they're both about hope, and they're both about resilience, you know?
• 12:30
  Amber: The resilience I had, but the resilience my daughter had.
• 12:33
  Amber: I mean, she came from a horrible situation in an orphanage, and her resilience is remarkable to me.
• 12:41
  Amber: But then trying to be the mom of a child who's really emotionally, whoo, what do you do with this?
• 12:48
  Amber: Right?
• 12:48
  Amber: Because that's not your experience growing up, and then you have a kid and you're you only know how to parent the way you were parented.
• 12:54
  Amber: So I had to really find some new skills.
• 12:57
  Amber: And um, and I wanted I wanted other families to not be afraid of adopting or afraid of fostering a child that may have some difficult behaviors and to still say, Hey, it's okay, you can still get the outcome you want.
• 13:14
  Amber: You just have to look at them differently, and logic and consequences are not going to work.
• 13:18
  Amber: Neither is anything punitive or punishing.
• 13:21
  Amber: Throw those out the window.
• 13:23
  Amber: Like, what are you gonna do with a child who's been starved?
• 13:26
  Amber: Take away their dinner, it's not gonna have any effect.
• 13:29
  Amber: You know, what are you gonna do with a kid who's been locked in a closet for three days at a time?
• 13:34
  Amber: Send them to their room, it's not gonna work.
• 13:37
  Amber: Like, it just don't bother.
• 13:39
  Jeanne: I'm not trying to laugh here, but I have to say this about our son.
• 13:43
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 13:44
  Jeanne: So we tried to punish him by taking away toys and stuff.
• 13:49
  Jeanne: But he didn't have a lot of toys when he came to live with us.
• 13:54
  Jeanne: So what did he care?
• 13:56
  Jeanne: So he got a shoe box.
• 13:58
  Jeanne: This was insane.
• 13:59
  Jeanne: He got a shoebox and dental floss, and he made a circus.
• 14:04
  Jeanne: I don't know what else he found, just junk.
• 14:08
  Jeanne: And he made a circus box with somebody going across the, you know, a bobbed wire or the whatever that thing is called where you cycle across it.
• 14:18
  Jeanne: It was absolutely genius.
• 14:20
  Jeanne: So it wasn't any, you're right, absolutely right.
• 14:25
  Jeanne: You can't just punish them the same way.
• 14:27
  Jeanne: You can't take away privileges or toys because they didn't have any to begin with.
• 14:33
  Amber: They know how to adapt.
• 14:34
  Jeanne: Yes, exactly.
• 14:35
  Jeanne: I mean, we were just shocked over the what this little circus box was with dental flaws and some I don't know, sticks.
• 14:44
  Jeanne: I don't know what he had.
• 14:49
  Amber: That's awesome.
• 14:52
  Jeanne: I know, it was great.
• 14:54
  Jeanne: Well, I I wanted to um ask you what the work and advocacy is that you're doing now um with with kids in your area or with parents that are adopting kids.
• 15:05
  Jeanne: Do you have a foundation you work with or are you starting something?
• 15:10
  Amber: That's such a great question.
• 15:11
  Amber: I don't.
• 15:12
  Amber: I just finished seminary, like literally in the beginning of December.
• 15:17
  Amber: That was the last semester and the last classes of seminary.
• 15:21
  Amber: I have been working as a licensed local pastor.
• 15:24
  Amber: So you, you know, you work with kids somewhat in a church, but I don't know what my next step is.
• 15:29
  Amber: I keep saying I can't wait and to find out like how am I going to actually enter the world?
• 15:34
  Amber: I don't know.
• 15:35
  Amber: I've looked at some jobs in the foster care system.
• 15:38
  Amber: Nothing is really a good match for the degree that I got.
• 15:42
  Amber: I've talked to some people who want me to open a daycare that is trauma-informed.
• 15:48
  Amber: So specific to kids who are like non-neurotypical or kids who come from foster care or harder places to have a daycare that's trauma-informed, that works with them in a way that is helpful and useful.
• 16:00
  Amber: That sounds exciting to me.
• 16:02
  Amber: So it's a possibility that I might be going back into business and doing a daycare, which is a different business than I had before the COVID pandemic.
• 16:13
  Jeanne: But you you're using a term I've never heard before, but I I want to dig into that trauma-informed.
• 16:19
  Jeanne: That means that you could only be coming there if there is a specific diagnosis or just that you've gone through something.
• 16:28
  Amber: It will work for any child, right?
• 16:29
  Amber: It's like in my book, I talk about using love and loving limits.
• 16:33
  Amber: I mean, it's strict.
• 16:34
  Amber: There's lots of limits, but everything you do, you do with love, you do it to help the kid cope, you help them to feel that they are not being, you know, if you yell at a kid or you like punish, right?
• 16:46
  Amber: If you punish, repunitive in some way.
• 16:49
  Amber: Kids who've been traumatized, man, they put a wall up.
• 16:52
  Amber: And sometimes their behavior just gets worse, literally worse and worse and worse.
• 16:56
  Amber: And it's because they feel like they've got to protect themselves.
• 17:00
  Amber: Their protective instincts are really, really honed because they've had to take care of themselves.
• 17:06
  Amber: They've had to protect themselves from whatever happened to them earlier in their lives.
• 17:10
  Amber: So when you're trauma-informed, you recognize, I mean, there's more to it, right?
• 17:15
  Amber: There's three parts to your brain.
• 17:16
  Amber: You need to go back to the more emotional and primitive part of your brain.
• 17:20
  Amber: And if that gets engaged, fight, flight, freeze, like those responses are hardwired.
• 17:26
  Amber: They're not logically thinking like you're gonna lose your train if you don't get in line with the other kids.
• 17:33
  Amber: They're just like in this like fight or flight or freeze emotional response.
• 17:38
  Amber: So when you're trauma informed, you recognize, oh boy, we just triggered, we just triggered this very primitive part of this child's brain.
• 17:47
  Amber: Don't even bother at that point to try to reason, logic, consequences, anything.
• 17:52
  Amber: This is not gonna go anywhere.
• 17:54
  Amber: So at that point, what you want to do is help them feel safe.
• 17:57
  Amber: Help them bring that back down to you're safe, nothing is gonna be taken away from you, nothing's gonna happen to you, you're not gonna be starved, you're not gonna be beaten, you're not gonna be like all the things that their brain has been protecting them from, they kick in, even though people who've not had trauma, they're like, just line up at the door, you know.
• 18:18
  Amber: We're all gonna go to the craft room, just line up at the door.
• 18:21
  Amber: It doesn't seem like a big deal.
• 18:22
  Amber: But if it gets triggered in a child who's had trauma, those could be fighting words.
• 18:27
  Amber: Line up at the door, those could be fighting words, you know?
• 18:30
  Amber: And um, it's different.
• 18:31
  Amber: It would be probably more it'd be hard to go into the details in a shorter podcast like this.
• 18:38
  Amber: I'm happy to talk about it more.
• 18:40
  Amber: But being trauma-informed, it just means you're aware that the children are not gonna always react in a way you can expect or predict.
• 18:50
  Amber: So you need to understand underlying why they are not reacting and responding the way a typical child would.
• 18:56
  Amber: So, you know, typical, non-neurotypical.
• 18:59
  Amber: It's nothing wrong with the kids, they just need to be approached in a different way.
• 19:04
  Jeanne: Yeah, I I totally admire you for doing that because it's not my reaction coming out of being an adoptive mother to go and continue to do that work.
• 19:12
  Jeanne: Um, it was traumatizing for me.
• 19:16
  Amber: No, I I hear that.
• 19:18
  Amber: It was rough.
• 19:18
  Amber: I get that it was rough for me too, until we learned how to deal with it.
• 19:22
  Amber: It was rough for me until we had the doctor that knew his stuff and then taught us not only about what the attachment trauma was and why our daughter was acting that way and responding that way, but then what do you do about it?
• 19:36
  Amber: How do you get them to comply and behave?
• 19:39
  Amber: Because you can't let them call the shots, you know, like you are still the parent, you're in charge of your house.
• 19:45
  Amber: So he didn't just teach us about it.
• 19:48
  Amber: Then he said, and this is how you're going to parent her now.
• 19:51
  Amber: And then he let us practice because he stayed with us for three days.
• 19:55
  Amber: He let us practice, corrected us, you know, this is what you're gonna do and why.
• 19:59
  Amber: And then he let us let us go.
• 20:02
  Amber: And I mean, I could call him if I needed to for, you know, advice.
• 20:06
  Amber: But basically, I wasn't great at it, right?
• 20:09
  Amber: He left and I I was like, I can't do this, it's so hard.
• 20:13
  Amber: And, you know, I had my fits and starts of doing it well and doing it consistently, but you know, after three months I was a little better.
• 20:21
  Amber: After six months, I was even better.
• 20:23
  Amber: After a year, I pretty much had it down, and that was the way I parented my daughter from age five up until she went off for college, you know.
• 20:32
  Amber: It was how I parented her.
• 20:34
  Amber: And so I started at age five.
• 20:37
  Amber: I probably didn't really get the hang of it till she was about six.
• 20:40
  Amber: But by the time she was eight and nine, she was a just a joy, just a joy.
• 20:46
  Amber: So many people.
• 20:47
  Amber: Your daughter is so sweet, she's so nice, you know, you're so lucky.
• 20:51
  Amber: She's just such a little sweetheart.
• 20:53
  Amber: And yeah, I mean, it didn't happen overnight, right?
• 20:56
  Amber: I mean, as I say, it's like a corkscrew, like it wasn't a straight line.
• 20:59
  Amber: It was like we slowly got there eventually, but it it wasn't that easy.
• 21:04
  Amber: But once you know how to handle it, I'm telling you, all that frustration that you feel, it disappears because you're you know how to handle it.
• 21:11
  Amber: And you're like, this is what I need to do, this is what I need to do now.
• 21:15
  Amber: Sometimes I have to do limits, sometimes I have to do more love, but whatever it is, I now know how to do this.
• 21:21
  Amber: And boy, does that take the frustration and anxiety and anger and sadness and all those negative feelings that you feel.
• 21:29
  Amber: When you have a plan of action that's actually working, I say what this man gave back to me was compassion for my daughter.
• 21:36
  Amber: Because I was mad by the time I met this guy.
• 21:39
  Amber: I was resentful, I was mad, I was like, I'm so sick of this.
• 21:43
  Amber: I was miserable.
• 21:44
  Amber: Which the book goes into too.
• 21:46
  Amber: How bad I got, you know.
• 21:49
  Amber: Definitely brought out the worst in me.
• 21:51
  Amber: But once I knew what to do, I found that my love and compassion for her could come back again.
• 21:58
  Amber: That's great.
• 21:59
  Amber: And now that's why I want to work with you first, because I know these families, they just need the right tools.
• 22:05
  Jeanne: Yeah, I would I would have loved to have known you back then.
• 22:07
  Jeanne: And I want to say, you know, my kids are thriving adults, so I'm not complaining.
• 22:12
  Jeanne: Um but it was, yeah, it was it was a lot of steps that I didn't understand.
• 22:18
  Jeanne: Somebody like you would have been so, so helpful because you sort of got the formula that I didn't get.
• 22:24
  Jeanne: And um, yeah, that would have been great.
• 22:26
  Amber: Yeah.
• 22:26
  Amber: A few people have said you should coach, you should be like a parent coach.
• 22:30
  Amber: And I'm like, wow.
• 22:32
  Jeanne: Oh yeah, that's a great, fantastic idea.
• 22:34
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Jeanne: Actually, it is because you can't, you can't, I gotta say this, because you can't read a book as well as you need immediate action.
• 22:43
  Jeanne: And it's not a therapist either, because the therapist, they know what they've learned to be a therapist in their studies.
• 22:51
  Jeanne: This is something totally different.
• 22:54
  Jeanne: And so a coach would be somebody I could call this person, maybe it wouldn't be immediately accessible, but I could call this person within a few days after you know something's happened, and then unload or redirect or whatever you could be able to help them do.
• 23:12
  Jeanne: What that would be fantastic.
• 23:14
  Amber: Yeah, I know, right?
• 23:15
  Amber: I think the best way to coach would be literally like, okay, put me on speed dial.
• 23:20
  Amber: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Amber: Just text me when you're having like when you're in the middle of it, just text me, we'll get through it together.
• 23:25
  Amber: And then offer classes and to teach, you know, when you're not in the middle of it, right?
• 23:31
  Amber: So let's let's sit back and learn about what's happened there and let's, you know, because the the more educated a parent is, and then the more they learn skills, like specific skills to handle this, it just gives the parent like so much less anxiety.
• 23:45
  Amber: It's like, okay, now I know what I'm doing, you know?
• 23:48
  Amber: And if they don't know what they're doing, give me a call and we'll figure it out.
• 23:51
  Amber: I had this one little girl, she was in my nursery class at church.
• 23:56
  Amber: Wow, she was four years old.
• 23:58
  Amber: She was a pill, she was rough.
• 24:00
  Amber: Probably a 10 out of 10 for conduct issues.
• 24:03
  Amber: And um, I just turned her around and I had no problems with her.
• 24:08
  Amber: And the mom was like, I wish you were her teacher.
• 24:10
  Amber: I wish you would do this, I wish you did that.
• 24:12
  Amber: So the mom became a friend of mine because we went to church together.
• 24:16
  Amber: And I I was like, I gave her the information and I'm like, I'm not trying to overwhelm you, but this is this will work, you know, this will work with your daughter.
• 24:24
  Amber: And if you need any help, let me know.
• 24:26
  Amber: And the first thing she said when she read it, she's like, Were you a stay-at-home mom?
• 24:30
  Amber: And I said, Okay, I did stay home with my kids when they were little.
• 24:34
  Amber: I took time off work and I stayed home.
• 24:36
  Amber: But you can do it without staying home.
• 24:38
  Amber: It's harder, but you can do it without staying home.
• 24:40
  Amber: And so she started doing it.
• 24:42
  Amber: And she went through the same thing I went through initially.
• 24:44
  Amber: She's like, This is too hard.
• 24:45
  Amber: I can't do this, but I'm mad.
• 24:46
  Amber: But she didn't, she got away with it.
• 24:48
  Amber: Like, she didn't get a punishment.
• 24:49
  Amber: I'm like, she didn't need a punishment at that point.
• 24:52
  Amber: She needed to know you had a handle on her.
• 24:56
  Amber: Like her behavior was out of control.
• 24:58
  Amber: What she really needed to know was you had a handle on things so she could relax and calm back down.
• 25:05
  Amber: She didn't need a punishment.
• 25:07
  Amber: She needed trust.
• 25:08
  Amber: And it's just totally different.
• 25:11
  Amber: It's just totally different.
• 25:13
  Jeanne: Well, if you did a coaching thing, I think you would probably have lineup of uh customers, you know, it would be so much.
• 25:19
  Jeanne: But you could also turn that into training the trainer because uh we had one therapist, I loved her, and I can't I don't know if I'm allowed to say her name because I haven't told her I would, but I'll say her first name is Latrina.
• 25:34
  Jeanne: And she was there when, you know, like a dog died.
• 25:39
  Jeanne: And we were like trying to explain it.
• 25:41
  Jeanne: But we've got kids that have had people die.
• 25:44
  Jeanne: And you know, I don't know if I'm saying the right things to them.
• 25:47
  Jeanne: So she came right over that day.
• 25:50
  Jeanne: Even I think she even came to the vet when he was being put down because he ended up just dying so randomly over kidney stones at a really young puppy age, and it was just shocking.
• 26:02
  Jeanne: So yeah, you would be a train the trainer, that would be also good because I don't think I've ever seen anybody like her.
• 26:09
  Jeanne: There was one person for my daughter, and then one person for all the kids that you know was good.
• 26:15
  Jeanne: But then we went through a lot of people that had no clue.
• 26:19
  Amber: Yeah, the problem with like attachment and things like that is most people really don't know how to handle it.
• 26:24
  Amber: Attachment theory is becoming bigger and more understood, but it's not well understood.
• 26:29
  Amber: But you know, I'm so glad you just said that because you said the trainer of the trainer.
• 26:33
  Amber: One thing that this doctor taught me, and he was so right.
• 26:37
  Amber: So he was a pastor before he went and got his PhD and then decided to do this instead.
• 26:42
  Amber: And um, he was used to going to people's homes, right?
• 26:46
  Amber: And looking at where they lived and their environment and their relationships with each other.
• 26:49
  Amber: He was just used to that as a pastor.
• 26:51
  Amber: He was able to apply that as a psychologist.
• 26:54
  Amber: But he said, I don't need your child to bond to me.
• 26:57
  Amber: Like, don't take him to talk therapy once or twice a week, and then the therapist gets a good relationship with your kid.
• 27:03
  Amber: You have to have a good relationship with your kid.
• 27:05
  Amber: So he's like, I teach the parents.
• 27:07
  Amber: It's not even therapy, it's teaching, it's education.
• 27:10
  Amber: And he goes, I teach the parents because the parents are with that child 24-7.
• 27:15
  Amber: So you're just doing it all the time.
• 27:18
  Amber: It's not once a week or twice a week in an office.
• 27:20
  Amber: Because once or twice a week in an office isn't going to be effective.
• 27:24
  Amber: You're never gonna get there.
• 27:25
  Amber: But when the parents are doing it, they're doing it at breakfast time.
• 27:29
  Amber: They're doing it when you say, I mean, he's he had this funny thing.
• 27:32
  Amber: He said, I would have people in my office and I would spend almost the whole time trying to provoke the child into showing me some kind of defiance.
• 27:40
  Amber: You know, you go to somebody's house and the parent just has to say, eat your peas, and boy, you're there.
• 27:46
  Amber: You know, your kid is like, nope, not eating those peas.
• 27:49
  Amber: And he goes, It just didn't make sense to me to try to do this in a therapy office.
• 27:53
  Amber: It just made more sense to be in the home.
• 27:56
  Amber: Like, what's actually happening?
• 27:57
  Amber: They wanna, they don't want to put their socks on.
• 27:59
  Amber: There we go.
• 28:00
  Amber: Let's talk about it now, you know.
• 28:02
  Amber: So he was amazing.
• 28:03
  Amber: He's retired now, but he when I wrote the book, I talked to him a lot.
• 28:07
  Amber: And to get like the underlying stuff and things like that, he's become a friend.
• 28:12
  Jeanne: So well, I see a new business is train the trainer because I think you have a lot of knowledge that's a good idea.
• 28:18
  Amber: I could write that individual trainer.
• 28:21
  Jeanne: Yeah, you could have individual support for parents, that's fine.
• 28:24
  Jeanne: And they probably everybody, lots of people need it, even for non-adopted kids, but they need more people that can do it.
• 28:31
  Jeanne: And in you know, mental health in the United States is at an all-time uh high for you know violence.
• 28:38
  Jeanne: So I, you know, a lot of these acts come out of just misappropriated anger as a child.
• 28:46
  Jeanne: And it's not the parents' fault, it's just like exasperation of not the right tools.
• 28:51
  Jeanne: What we've been told is not correct.
• 28:54
  Jeanne: And I read a ton of books and a ton of different approaches to do things.
• 28:59
  Jeanne: I would say out of those, not many were helpful.
• 29:05
  Amber: Before I met this guy, I think I read every parenting book that's out there.
• 29:08
  Amber: Because you're so desperate for anything that will work.
• 29:11
  Amber: You're like help, you know.
• 29:13
  Amber: Yes, exactly.
• 29:14
  Amber: I love that train the trainer.
• 29:16
  Amber: Boy, that's really good.
• 29:17
  Amber: That's really good.
• 29:18
  Jeanne: Yeah, that's what that, you know, in my career in IT, the technology, that's what we used to call it when you'd have a system that got input and you'd have training and stuff, and then you'd have to roll it out worldwide or something.
• 29:32
  Jeanne: So you'd have to have one person that knew it inside and out, and then they train the trainers that would train the users that would, yeah.
• 29:38
  Jeanne: So that's not my verbiage.
• 29:40
  Jeanne: It's it's a technology thing for me.
• 29:43
  Jeanne: So I have one more question.
• 29:45
  Jeanne: So when people finish your books or hear you speak, what do you most hope they carry with them into their own lives?
• 29:55
  Amber: I hope that they get education and that with that education they make changes.
• 30:01
  Amber: Right.
• 30:02
  Amber: I just happen to believe, you know, like what is the saying, right?
• 30:05
  Amber: Like, if you want to change the world, start with education.
• 30:08
  Amber: And I just feel like if people understand, then their defenses, right, of being angry or like, forget it, and I'm not doing this, or thinking, well, that kid's just stupid, or that guy's just stupid, or whatever.
• 30:21
  Amber: It's like once you're educated, you get past all that emotion, and then you kind of start thinking, oh, what can I do here?
• 30:28
  Amber: You know, how can I try this?
• 30:29
  Amber: Hey, that reminds me of my niece or that, you know.
• 30:33
  Amber: And I think that what I hope to give is education.
• 30:36
  Amber: Like, let me educate you about what it is like to be a child who's been groomed, right?
• 30:41
  Amber: And why do kids not tell their parents when there's something going on?
• 30:45
  Amber: Well, you can understand that with some education about the process of it or the cycle of the abuse.
• 30:51
  Amber: How do you deal with a child that is just oppositional defiant and not not obeying the rules and you're trying to be the authority in your house as a parent and you don't want to be screaming and yelling all the time.
• 31:02
  Amber: How do you do that?
• 31:02
  Amber: Well, you got to understand first how come the child is doing that, right?
• 31:06
  Amber: So for me, I hope that people walk away with some new tools because they now understand, because they have a new understanding of something that they just didn't know about before.
• 31:16
  Amber: You know, they had never come across the information prior to that.
• 31:20
  Amber: And I will say, just on that note, so Dr.
• 31:23
  Amber: B, he's the guy that trained me.
• 31:25
  Amber: He said, Amber, you've been using the wrong tool for the job.
• 31:29
  Amber: It's like trying to change a tire with a screwdriver.
• 31:32
  Amber: You're never gonna be able to do it.
• 31:34
  Amber: You have the wrong tools.
• 31:35
  Amber: And he goes, But I can teach you the right tools.
• 31:38
  Amber: And he did.
• 31:39
  Amber: I mean, he he put his money where his mouth was.
• 31:41
  Amber: I mean, he knew his stuff, and I was just so so I mean, the relationship I have with my daughter now, she's 21, she's an adult, an adult now.
• 31:49
  Amber: I just he gave me my family back.
• 31:52
  Amber: Like he gave me my family back, he gave me my dream back, you know.
• 31:55
  Amber: He helped me feel good about being a mom again because man, I was yelling, I was resorting to you know, yanking her ponytails and stuff.
• 32:02
  Amber: I was just so not me because I was so frustrated and angry and nothing was working.
• 32:07
  Jeanne: So Yeah, that you get so over the top, and you think, Am I even effective anymore?
• 32:14
  Jeanne: Because I feel like I'm the child at this point because I'm so angry.
• 32:19
  Jeanne: Exactly.
• 32:22
  Jeanne: Yeah, it's really it really can take you there.
• 32:26
  Jeanne: So, all right, we have come to the part which uh I love in um this broadcast, and that is going into our signature game, Two Truths and a Lie.
• 32:39
  Jeanne: And so Amber has sent me three headlines.
• 32:42
  Jeanne: Two are true and one is a lie.
• 32:45
  Jeanne: I haven't been told which is the lie yet.
• 32:49
  Jeanne: So, what we're gonna do is read these stories, then I'm gonna guess, and then we're gonna um let Amber talk about them, and then we'll find out which one is actually her lie.
• 33:00
  Jeanne: So let's see.
• 33:02
  Jeanne: This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts.
• 33:10
  Jeanne: Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different.
• 33:20
  Jeanne: Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder you don't need permission to change your story.
• 33:33
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• 34:04
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• 34:09
  Jeanne: Thank you to our sponsors.
• 34:11
  Jeanne: Alright, so number one story Amber and her husband adopted two children from Russia who are now adults.
• 34:21
  Jeanne: So that's story number one.
• 34:24
  Jeanne: And we did talk about her adopting, so we know that.
• 34:26
  Jeanne: I don't know if we talked about Russia, but anyway.
• 34:28
  Jeanne: That one's kind of a giveaway.
• 34:31
  Jeanne: Uh number two, as a horse enthusiast, Amber adopted, broke, trained two wild Mustangs from Nevada.
• 34:39
  Jeanne: And you live in New York, right?
• 34:41
  Amber: I live in New York.
• 34:42
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 34:43
  Jeanne: I've always lived in New York.
• 34:44
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 34:45
  Jeanne: So then the third one is during the COVID pandemic, Amber's husband cheated on her and she's okay with it.
• 34:52
  Jeanne: Uh, okay.
• 34:53
  Jeanne: So I get to guess first.
• 34:55
  Jeanne: So I'm guessing number three is a lie, and then you're gonna tell us, but don't tell me yet.
• 35:01
  Jeanne: Don't tell us yet.
• 35:02
  Jeanne: And for anybody playing along, they can now you've met uh Amber and talk, and she's talked a little bit, you can kind of see her personality.
• 35:09
  Jeanne: So I'm going with three because I wouldn't be okay with anything like that.
• 35:13
  Jeanne: But um, so let's hear your stories.
• 35:16
  Jeanne: What about number one?
• 35:18
  Amber: Okay, so um both of my children are adopted from Russia.
• 35:22
  Amber: So my daughter, um, my son was adopted first.
• 35:25
  Amber: He was eight months old.
• 35:26
  Amber: He was adopted from a Russia, uh, an orphanage in St.
• 35:28
  Amber: Petersburg.
• 35:29
  Amber: He was in pretty good shape.
• 35:30
  Amber: Um, my daughter was adopted when she was two.
• 35:33
  Amber: She was adopted from a Russian orphanage in a very small town called Orsk.
• 35:37
  Amber: She had been severely neglected and starved and traumatized and abused.
• 35:42
  Amber: So she came on board with a lot more problems.
• 35:46
  Amber: Uh, number two, are we gonna do all three of them?
• 35:49
  Amber: Yeah, keep going.
• 35:51
  Amber: Okay, so as a horse enthusiast, right, I adopted, broke, and trained two wild Mustangs from Nevada.
• 35:59
  Amber: So this, you guys will have to decide if that sounds a little far-fetched.
• 36:05
  Jeanne: How did you get them from Nevada to New York?
• 36:08
  Jeanne: Or did you go to Nevada to to break them?
• 36:11
  Amber: I did not go to Nevada to break them or adopt them.
• 36:14
  Amber: So actually, Cornell is kind of near me.
• 36:17
  Amber: It's about an hour from my house, and Cornell University hosted an adoption.
• 36:22
  Amber: So they brought in all these horses uh from Nevada, these wild Mustangs, and uh they all have uh a brand on their neck that says US and then a number.
• 36:33
  Amber: And uh you did like a lottery, like a number lottery, and you picked when you could pick the horse you wanted.
• 36:40
  Amber: So they had them all in pens, and uh, I was like number eight to pick.
• 36:44
  Amber: So I picked my first choice, and uh, yeah, it was a mayor.
• 36:49
  Amber: She was uh three years old, and my husband was like 15th person to pick, and he also chose a mare, it was not his first pick, and uh that mayor was only two years old, and uh so we had to get them in a trailer, which was pretty difficult because these wild Mustangs were wild, and we trailed them back to the stables that we both worked at and started our journey.
• 37:18
  Amber: So it took about a year.
• 37:21
  Jeanne: So a mare is a female, right?
• 37:23
  Jeanne: And a stud is a male.
• 37:25
  Jeanne: Is that how that goes?
• 37:26
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 37:27
  Amber: So uh gelding.
• 37:28
  Amber: Well, st a Australian would be an ungelded male.
• 37:31
  Amber: Um, normally a gelding is what you would call, so you say a mare or a gelding.
• 37:37
  Amber: So a mare is a female, a gelding is uh is a male that doesn't can't breed anymore.
• 37:43
  Amber: You usually would not want to keep a horse.
• 37:46
  Amber: A male horse you wouldn't want to keep as a breeder unless you wanted to breed that horse.
• 37:50
  Amber: Those are stallions, that means they can still breed, but they're much harder to handle.
• 37:55
  Amber: They are very aggressive usually.
• 37:57
  Amber: So it's uh they geld the um male horses when they're younger so that they don't get so aggressive.
• 38:04
  Amber: Did you do the whole thing to break them or did you hire somebody?
• 38:08
  Amber: No, no.
• 38:09
  Amber: So uh my husband, well, we were both horse enthusiasts, so we know a lot about horses.
• 38:14
  Amber: And my husband mostly broke them with a little help from me, and then I would take them over and I would do lessons with them and school them.
• 38:23
  Amber: So I trained them with a little help from him, and then they ended up being amazing trail horses.
• 38:29
  Amber: What we really love to do is go trail riding with our friends.
• 38:32
  Amber: Okay.
• 38:33
  Amber: Do you still have them?
• 38:34
  Amber: I do.
• 38:35
  Amber: Yeah, they're quite old now, though.
• 38:37
  Amber: They're almost almost ready to pass on.
• 38:40
  Amber: So, because that was uh my husband and I did that before we had kids when we still had time on our hands.
• 38:45
  Amber: So uh yeah, so they're quite old, they're into their 30s now.
• 38:49
  Amber: I didn't know horses live that long.
• 38:51
  Amber: I'm not much of a horse, they don't all live that long tw between 20, 25, 30.
• 38:57
  Amber: I mean 30 is getting old.
• 38:58
  Amber: I've known two horses that lived into their 40s, but that's really rare.
• 39:01
  Amber: Wow.
• 39:02
  Amber: So usually lifespan of a horse is like 20 years or 25 years.
• 39:06
  Amber: That's kind of like what I was just reading.
• 39:08
  Amber: They're pasture armaments, nobody rides them anymore.
• 39:10
  Jeanne: Oh, that was just like what I was reading about parrots.
• 39:13
  Jeanne: It's not a time for me to get a parrot now because they live like 80 years or something.
• 39:17
  Jeanne: I don't think I could have my parent doesn't.
• 39:23
  Jeanne: Yes, you do, and provide their own IRA.
• 39:28
  Amber: All right, number three.
• 39:29
  Amber: So, number three, during the COVID pandemic, my husband cheated on me and I'm okay with it.
• 39:34
  Amber: So, um, and I am, you know, we had a good run.
• 39:38
  Amber: It was great while it was great, and COVID certainly put a lot of strain on things.
• 39:44
  Amber: I owned a movie theater, my movie theater closed, so finances were tough, business was tough.
• 39:50
  Amber: The kids were home from school because they weren't allowed to go to school in New York.
• 39:54
  Amber: They had to be home, they put a lot of stress on things.
• 39:58
  Amber: And uh, I understand, you know, we had been together for a while, it was a really stressful situation.
• 40:05
  Amber: So I am okay with it.
• 40:08
  Amber: I mean, you know, things happen.
• 40:10
  Amber: We're divorced now, I'm happy, so it's hard to really say that that wasn't what was meant to be.
• 40:16
  Amber: And I've just, you know, accepted the fact that, you know, it was good while it lasted.
• 40:21
  Amber: And then when it ended, maybe it was just time for it to end.
• 40:24
  Amber: So I'm okay with it.
• 40:25
  Jeanne: I don't even know how he would do it.
• 40:27
  Jeanne: He's not supposed to leave your house and you're supposed to wear a mask.
• 40:29
  Jeanne: So that seems to be more complicated.
• 40:33
  Jeanne: Did he go to work?
• 40:36
  Jeanne: I mean, I thought everybody's working at home.
• 40:39
  Amber: No.
• 40:39
  Amber: Oh.
• 40:40
  Amber: Yeah.
• 40:40
  Amber: I mean, that's the funny thing.
• 40:42
  Amber: We're all sheltering in place, right?
• 40:43
  Amber: Right, right.
• 40:44
  Amber: He managed it somehow.
• 40:46
  Amber: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Amber: So well, sometimes, you know.
• 40:50
  Jeanne: Like who was it?
• 40:50
  Jeanne: Like the grocery pickup lady, the trash collector.
• 40:54
  Jeanne: I mean, the people that were still out there.
• 40:55
  Jeanne: No, I I don't, I mean, I'm just trying to figure that out.
• 41:02
  Jeanne: Oh, he's a musician.
• 41:03
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 41:03
  Jeanne: Well, say no more.
• 41:05
  Jeanne: No, I'm kidding.
• 41:07
  Jeanne: No, I love my musicians.
• 41:12
  Amber: Oh, yeah, there you have it.
• 41:14
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 41:14
  Jeanne: Well, here, you said something in there that was just like, okay, you owned a movie theater that closed.
• 41:20
  Jeanne: I mean, isn't that a story in itself?
• 41:22
  Jeanne: I mean, gee.
• 41:23
  Jeanne: It is.
• 41:24
  Amber: Oh, I loved being a movie theater owner.
• 41:26
  Amber: I had a movie theater for 31 years.
• 41:28
  Amber: That was my baby.
• 41:29
  Amber: I loved it.
• 41:30
  Amber: That's so great.
• 41:31
  Amber: This is crazy.
• 41:32
  Amber: From two screens to three screens to five screens, then we put in party rooms.
• 41:37
  Amber: Like, I just love that business so much.
• 41:39
  Amber: But you know what?
• 41:40
  Amber: COVID changed a lot of things, and the movie theaters have mostly gone under.
• 41:45
  Amber: So I didn't know what to do.
• 41:47
  Amber: I lost my baby.
• 41:48
  Jeanne: Oh, wow.
• 41:49
  Jeanne: But even so, I mean, you got such a diverse set of skills here.
• 41:54
  Jeanne: Now we've added movie theater owner, and unbelievable.
• 42:00
  Jeanne: My life is very how would we even know that unless you had told us about the number three?
• 42:06
  Jeanne: So, I mean, I guess the way you said everything, number three is actually the lie.
• 42:11
  Jeanne: You were not okay with it, or what was which one's the lie?
• 42:16
  Amber: That's the lie part.
• 42:17
  Amber: So my my husband did cheat on me, and I will say I'm mostly okay with it, but not completely.
• 42:23
  Amber: But mostly because she's 20 years younger than me.
• 42:28
  Amber: So wow.
• 42:31
  Jeanne: So it was the grocery delivery person, I don't know.
• 42:34
  Amber: No, I I'm not 100% sure how they met.
• 42:37
  Amber: I think it was started like with an online thing, and they kind of chatted and stuff, and then it kind of progressed somehow.
• 42:44
  Amber: I don't know.
• 42:45
  Amber: COVID put a lot of strain on our marriage.
• 42:48
  Amber: I think part of it with my business closing and things like that, and it just a lot of stuff.
• 42:53
  Amber: And the kids at that point were young still.
• 42:55
  Amber: Yeah, the kids were still home at that point.
• 42:58
  Amber: And um, so it put a lot of strain on things in general.
• 43:02
  Amber: And uh I had actually already asked him to move out, and then after he moved out, I found an email account, and uh that's so we shared a computer and he left his password autosaved.
• 43:17
  Amber: So I was on Google one day, and you know, when you click on your little thing, it'll bring up other accounts, and there was an account on there, and I was like, I don't recognize that account.
• 43:28
  Amber: What the heck is that?
• 43:29
  Amber: So I click on it and it has the password filled in, and I'm like, hmm.
• 43:34
  Amber: So I click go, right?
• 43:36
  Amber: And it opens up this whole account, and I was like, Oh my goodness.
• 43:41
  Jeanne: Surprise, surprise, surprise.
• 43:44
  Amber: He had quite the alternative life happening online.
• 43:48
  Amber: And then um, like I said, we were already separated.
• 43:52
  Amber: So he was dating her, and whether it was an emotional affair when we were still married and living together.
• 43:59
  Amber: whether it had started before that, I can't say for sure.
• 44:03
  Amber: But yeah, I'm okay with it, but I'm not all the way okay with it.
• 44:08
  Jeanne: Yeah, it's not a cool thing.
• 44:10
  Jeanne: It's not a cool thing to happen to anybody, but uh we don't want to dig him a grave here.
• 44:15
  Jeanne: But uh yeah, I'm I wouldn't have been okay with it either.
• 44:19
  Amber: I'm happy now.
• 44:20
  Amber: And yeah, I mean I'm happy now.
• 44:22
  Amber: He had a big problem with me um wanting to pursue a career with God or in the church or something like that.
• 44:29
  Amber: You know, I ended up going off to seminary and I loved every minute of it.
• 44:34
  Amber: So it's like it's just weird.
• 44:35
  Amber: You know, I I just feel like that door closed but another one opened.
• 44:39
  Amber: And you know I can't I can't regret it too much now.
• 44:43
  Amber: Maybe a couple years ago it would have been a little harder to say that.
• 44:46
  Jeanne: Oh wow well I I know people have listened to you and they are probably wanting to get in touch with you so I'm I'm gonna tell them how they can do that.
• 44:55
  Jeanne: You can find your books online well first of all your big quote here is survive and thrive.
• 45:03
  Jeanne: And that you want to say anything about that?
• 45:05
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 45:07
  Amber: You know many of us who've endured trauma we get through it right you get through it and you you go to work and you see you put that behind you and you say that's that's over and done with I'm not gonna think about it anymore.
• 45:18
  Amber: And um I'm not the only person that uses this slogan survive and thrive but I love it.
• 45:23
  Amber: Like it's not just surviving it.
• 45:25
  Amber: It's not just getting through it.
• 45:26
  Amber: It's not just like fine I didn't die from that and now I'm moving on with my life.
• 45:31
  Amber: It's like no you're gonna thrive from it.
• 45:34
  Amber: You're gonna be stronger you're gonna be more vibrant you're gonna be more intelligent you're gonna be like more empathetic to other people like there's a way to get through trauma your own personal trauma your child's trauma whatever that you don't just have to survive it that you can literally take it and it can be like um fertilizer for your own growth and that's the thriving part you know when you take that thing or those some things that happened and you you don't just survive it and and stuff it you know and pretend it didn't happen or never want to talk about it.
• 46:08
  Amber: But you say you know what I'm gonna take this and that's gonna be my catalyst for growth.
• 46:13
  Amber: And that's what I feel like I was fortunate enough to do in both situations.
• 46:18
  Jeanne: Nice.
• 46:18
  Jeanne: So the links here you can contact Amber directly at her LinkedIn address or YouTube channel website or Facebook author page.
• 46:29
  Jeanne: And she also says personally that she responds to emails sent to her and is interested in having a place for people to ask questions or share their own stories.
• 46:40
  Jeanne: So contact her directly at ambergregoryauthor @gmail.com.
• 46:44
  Jeanne: so Amber thank you so much for being on I'm so happy that um we had you today and that you could share your stories with us.
• 46:52
  Amber: It was a pleasure to meet you thank you so much for doing this it's really it's so important for people to be able to share their stories.
• 46:59
  Jeanne: Yes and to also to know that there are people like them out there and yeah and that they're not alone because I think sometimes everybody is looking for something that is a high paying executive job somewhere or a movie star or a rapper musician something and but the rest of us which are the majority are just living everyday lives out here and having fun and having experiences I'm not going to say all of your stories were fun.
• 47:32
  Amber: They weren't fun at the time but right hi
• 47:36
  Jeanne: well thank you so much.
• 47:38
  Amber: It was my pleasure to be here thank you for inviting me.
• 47:40
  Jeanne: Thanks for joining me on Project Candor where the doors are open the stories are unexpected and the treasure is always real if today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew.
• 47:52
  Jeanne: Otherwise I might just make you swab the deck.
• 47:56
  Jeanne: I'm Jeanne Andersen your Admiral of the unexpected see you on the next voyage