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315: Integrating Creativity and Play into Learning, with Kelsey Cook · Beautifully Complex

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of comments where people will say
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: kids just need to play, they don't need activities set up,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you know, which, to an extent is true. That kids
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: do need to play, and play is so important. It's
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: like the work of childhood, you know, is them getting
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to play. But there is also such a benefit to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the time you're spending with your child when you're doing
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: these dedicated activities. I feel like the connection that you're
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: getting with your child is the biggest benefit.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodiversent kids straight from the trenches.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
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  Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: to Beautifully Complex. Everybody. I have with me today Sea Cook,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about implementing both creativity and
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  Speaker 2: play in learning. And I'm sure we're going to dive
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: into why that is effective, why that's powerful, why that's
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: useful for us to do both parents and educators. But
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  Speaker 2: let's start. Kelsey, Will you just let everybody know who
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: you are and what you do.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm Kelsey. I am a mom of four,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and I'm also I was a teacher. I taught school
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  Speaker 1: for ten years and then I now own a company
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  Speaker 1: called Learning with Kelsey and we send out activity boxes
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: to help parents better connect and learn with their kids
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  Speaker 1: at home.
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  Speaker 2: I love that. I've looked at your activity boxes. They're
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  Speaker 2: so cute, it's so fun. Just good ways to impart
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  Speaker 2: skills too, right, But that which I'm sure we're going
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  Speaker 2: to go into. I have a membership where I plan
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  Speaker 2: activities for younger kids for learning, regulation and emotional intelligence,
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  Speaker 2: and I love creating them. It's so much fun to
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  Speaker 2: create them. And I'm sure you feel the same about
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  Speaker 2: your kids.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, and I love it.
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  Speaker 2: My son, when he was young, we used to get
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  Speaker 2: some of the subscription kids and he loved it. He
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  Speaker 2: loved having a package come right and the Yale for
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  Speaker 2: him and stuff like. It was so exciting to him.
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  Speaker 2: So it's such a cool thing that you're doing.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.
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  Speaker 2: Where should we start with this? Maybe? Why is it
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  Speaker 2: so powerful to use play, to use creativity when we're
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: talking about helping kids learn.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like, especially with the younger kids when
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  Speaker 1: you are, when you're trying to keep their attention and
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  Speaker 1: trying to do all of these things, I think we
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: kind of forget that play is where they're learning, you know,
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  Speaker 1: play their own play, even without you stepping in and guiding,
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  Speaker 1: is where they're really learning all these different skills, where
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: they're practicing skills that they have learned. And so the
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  Speaker 1: more that we can incorporate play into their learning, the
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  Speaker 1: better it's going to be for them in the end.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and they're more engaged.
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  Speaker 1: Oh for sure.
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  Speaker 2: If it's fun.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're more excited, which I think is like the
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  Speaker 1: best thing that you can do as a teacher is
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  Speaker 1: get your kids excited about learning, and the same thing
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  Speaker 1: as a parent. You know, if you're excited about something,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: they're excited about it. So the more engaging and fun
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  Speaker 1: you can make it, the easier it is for them
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  Speaker 1: to learn.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and for neurodivergent brains too. When there's interest, they're
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  Speaker 2: more engaged, they're more focused, it's easier to get things done.
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  Speaker 2: So it's a big deal. Can we talk a little
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  Speaker 2: bit about what creative learning might look like at home
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: in a classroom. We're definitely talking about preschool maybe elementary
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  Speaker 2: school kids, But what can that look like? Can you
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  Speaker 2: give us some examples?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So one of our very favorite ones to do
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  Speaker 1: that is always a hit with Toddler's preschoolers, and I've
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: even done it with my kindergarteners is taking a toilet
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  Speaker 1: paper too and we tape it to the wall and
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  Speaker 1: they drop pomp poms through it. It seems so simple,
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  Speaker 1: but it's like they're getting this hands on practice where
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  Speaker 1: they're practicing one to one counting by dropping it in,
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  Speaker 1: but they're also practicing colors. You can add more toilet
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  Speaker 1: paper tubes, and they're practicing stem you know, engineering ideas,
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  Speaker 1: coming up with different ways to do it. And it's
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  Speaker 1: something that a lot of parents have at home, you know.
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  Speaker 1: I mean you have you have toilet paper tub at home.
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  Speaker 1: You may not have a thousand pump pums like I have,
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  Speaker 1: but like there's so many different ways to tweak this
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  Speaker 1: activity and it lets them be creative but also learn.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually watched your Instagram reel on this one
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  Speaker 2: earlier today.
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  Speaker 1: Oh I love it.
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  Speaker 2: You had so many like different pieces of it that
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  Speaker 2: I could see are like sort of occupational therapy and
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  Speaker 2: sensory and find motor and stuff, And I was like,
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  Speaker 2: why would I not think to do that when my
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  Speaker 2: kids were a little But you don't, you know, you
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  Speaker 2: don't know what, you don't know, No, but like using
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  Speaker 2: what did you have in their tweezers or something where
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  Speaker 2: they could pick up the pump pumps they were sorting
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  Speaker 2: them right, and there was so much to it.
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  Speaker 1: And then it's like, you know, you can kind of
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  Speaker 1: lean in, like you said, to their interest, especially kids
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  Speaker 1: that are nerd a vergent, Like maybe you have a
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  Speaker 1: child that really loves cars or really loves trains, and like, okay,
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  Speaker 1: let's do the toilet paper tubes with a car. Let's
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  Speaker 1: drop a car through it and see what happens.
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  Speaker 2: Mm hmm yeah. Yeah. And I'm even thinking like sensory
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  Speaker 2: like smell, like using cotton balls and putting different essential
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  Speaker 2: oils on them or I've.
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  Speaker 1: Never thought that idea.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are so many ways to integrate that sensory
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  Speaker 2: play and getting kids, you know, some of that that
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  Speaker 2: need met, while also fostering skills or keeping them just
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  Speaker 2: occupied and interested. Sometimes is open, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes we love that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So how can we sort of balance both structure
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  Speaker 2: and what kids get from free play because we know
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  Speaker 2: right from the science that free play is super import
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  Speaker 2: important to learning and development. But why is some structured
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  Speaker 2: play also important.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question because I think I get
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  Speaker 1: a lot of comments where people will say kids just
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: need to play, they don't need activity, it's set up,
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  Speaker 1: you know, and which to an extent is true that
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  Speaker 1: kids do need to play and play is so important.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: It's like the work of childhood, you know, is them
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: getting to play. But there is also such a benefit
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  Speaker 1: to the time you're spending with your child when you're
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: doing these dedicated activities. So for me, I feel like
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the connection that you're getting with your child when you're
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: sitting down and doing this activity with them is the
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  Speaker 1: biggest benefit that you're having from it. And then having
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: something that they can expect, you know, a structure, a
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  Speaker 1: routine is so important for little kids. Yeah, And so
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  Speaker 1: if in their routine they know, okay, today I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to get ten minutes with my mom to do this,
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  Speaker 1: I know I'll always get a tim in activity whatever
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  Speaker 1: it is. Not only is that going to help them
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  Speaker 1: prep and be ready and know what's coming in the day,
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  Speaker 1: but it also I think helps a behavior in so
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  Speaker 1: many ways because they know this one on one time
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  Speaker 1: is coming. They know they're going to get your unvided
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  Speaker 1: attention for these ten minutes, and so I think that
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: is a really powerful way to use it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and relationship is so so important in parenting anyway,
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  Speaker 2: and helping kids to feel seen and heard and valued
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  Speaker 2: when we do things with them together. But I love
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  Speaker 2: that you also brought up the predictability aspect because it
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  Speaker 2: is big, especially in the nerd divergent community, with kids
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  Speaker 2: having some sense of predictability. And it doesn't have to
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  Speaker 2: be a rigid structure or rigid routine, right, but just
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  Speaker 2: something to look forward to on a regular basis. Like
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  Speaker 2: a lot of times when I'm coaching families and their
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  Speaker 2: child is struggling with a sense of predictability, I'll say, well,
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  Speaker 2: you know, once a week, can you bake cookies together?
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  Speaker 2: Once a week? Can you do a craft together? Right? Like,
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  Speaker 2: what can you do on a consistent says that they
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  Speaker 2: can start to expect because that gives that sense of
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  Speaker 2: predictability throughout, even if it's a weekly ritual. And so
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  Speaker 2: these activities that you're talking about can totally work for
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  Speaker 2: that as well.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're not asking a mom to sit down
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  Speaker 1: and do an hour craft with their three year old,
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  Speaker 1: because as we know, that's literally what's happen. So it's
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  Speaker 1: really just ten minutes, ten to fifteen minutes that you're
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  Speaker 1: you're getting to spend with them. And yeah, like you said,
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  Speaker 1: a schedule, a routine, like even for me as a mom,
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  Speaker 1: is so helpful. And when I don't have a routine,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you can like feel the chaos building. And
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  Speaker 1: I think kids definitely feel that, and especially neurodivergent kids
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  Speaker 1: can feel like, Okay, I'm feeling out of control, and
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  Speaker 1: that's because I don't know what's coming next, you know.
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  Speaker 1: And so something is simple as setting the expectation for
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the day, setting out Okay, here's what we're gonna do today.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna do breakfast, then we get to do an activity,
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  Speaker 1: and then you're gonna go play by yourself for twenty
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  Speaker 1: minute or whatever, you know, so that they know what's
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  Speaker 1: coming and it kind of will help them to prepare
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  Speaker 1: and be ready for it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Can we talk a little bit too about experiential
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  Speaker 2: learning experiential play. How do we incorporate like I'm thinking
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  Speaker 2: of kids who are very tactile and like the pom
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  Speaker 2: pong game that you just talked about is a great
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  Speaker 2: one for that, But also is there a way to
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  Speaker 2: incorporate experience in it so that it's like hands on learning.
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  Speaker 2: I'm thinking like cooking with your kid or things like that,
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  Speaker 2: that maybe you can incorporate a little bit of math
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  Speaker 2: or a little bit of you know, broader learning rather
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  Speaker 2: than just skill building and development. Does that make sense?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, totally. Yeah. I love that because I think
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  Speaker 1: as moms we don't realize how much learning and teaching
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  Speaker 1: that we're doing, even in these simple, simple activities or
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: tasks that we're doing during the day. So if you
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: can pull your kid into your world and you know,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: ask them, do you want to help me? We're going
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to put the laundry in. And it's funny, you know,
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  Speaker 1: because when they're four, they love to do the laundry.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: When they're intend, they hate to do the laundry.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, it goes away.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could say, Okay, you're gonna help me, and
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  Speaker 1: we're gonna throw them in to the basket and we're
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: gonna do them in different colors, you know, and you're
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  Speaker 1: sorting colors and you can go outside on a walk
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  Speaker 1: and when you're on your walk you can play I
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Spy and these like are so simple, but they're learning,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you know, they're learning colors, they're learning sounds, they're learning
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: how to notice something and give clues, like all of
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: these different skills that you probably don't know you're doing,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: even as simple as going to the library with your child,
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  Speaker 1: you know, and when you're walking through the library, notice
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: things that are the same different pick books that they like,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: you know. Like you said, really honing in on their
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: interests and things that they love is going to make
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: it even better for them.
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  Speaker 2: I learned too, to sort of be a narrator of
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: my own experience so that I could impart skills that
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: otherwise wouldn't necessarily be learned. But when we do that,
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  Speaker 2: we're engaging with our kids. We're engaging in a relationship there, right,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: instead of sort of going with the flow of whatever.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I think we get so lost sometimes on autopilot. And
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: what you're talking about really is intentionality within our parenting. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like the other day I was making acasidia and
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: my nine year old was like, well, can I learn
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  Speaker 1: how to do it? And I'm like, no, I'm just
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  Speaker 1: gonna do it, and then I was like, okay, wait
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a second, there's not gonna be much longer when he's
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: gonna ask me, can I do something with you? So
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, let me teach you how, And
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: he was so excited to make a caseia you know,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: four minutes but like, yeah, he felt so proud he
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: learned a new skill. And it's like those moments if
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: we can kind of stop ourselves, and sometimes it's easier
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to not, you know, because you can go faster, you
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: can do it better, but it can really really.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Help them hundred percent. Can you give us some more
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  Speaker 2: examples of activities I'm thinking, like, you know, we talked
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: about sensory a little bit, what other areas do you
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: incorporate creativity and play and art really too right into learning?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So in like with the preschoolers, they're learning letters,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you know, but learning letters doesn't have to just be
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: tracing on a paper. They always get like in the box,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: they always get like a little bit of colored sand
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: for each month, and so with the sand, we trace
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the letter in the sand before they write, because you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: forming letters is so much more than just use your
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: hands to write the letter. Yeah, so they're tracing it
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: in the sand. And then we'll even like do a
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: dot sticker activity where they're using stickers to find the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: letter A and cover up the letter A. And then
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: we'll have a craft where we're going to make an apple,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and when we're making the apple, they're getting to rip
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: paper to be on the apple, so like they don't
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  Speaker 1: even know you're making. You're working on your fine motor
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: skills when you're ripping, you're working on your hand eye
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: coordination when you're gluing and cutting, and they're working on
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: their color when they're doing this, And then with their letters,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: they're learning the letter and the sound in such a
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: fun way that is not kind of the normal way
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: that you would think of learning letters.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not sitting down and just writing worksheet. Yep. Yes, yes,
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  Speaker 2: it comes to me though, as you're talking about that,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: that some of our kids really struggle with some of
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: those fine motor skills. Cutting. My son's twenty two now
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: and cutting is still difficult for him. He can get
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: it done at this point, but like it's not pretty, yeah,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: and it's just not fun. Part of the way his
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: brain is wired. Right, We worked on scissor skills these things,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: but his brain is wired a little bit differently. So
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: with kids who struggle with some of those kinds of things,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: how do you adapt these activities to work for them
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and not be a frustration.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think first of all, you need to know
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: your child, you know, And that's kind of the benefit
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: of doing activities with them and learning things, because then
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you kind of really understand what their learning style is
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: or what doesn't work for them. So like, for example,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: in the activity with the apple, if it was supposed
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: to be cutting, I would have them rip, so I
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: would have them rip the papers, and then if that
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: was tricky for them, you can even like you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: adapt it by starting the rip, letting them finish ripping it,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: or even just cutting them for them and just working
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: on gluing them because picking up small pieces of paper
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: is a fine motor skill, you know, and so kind
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of just adapting each one to where they're at. There's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: so many different ways. Like I'm trying to think of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: one that we did the other day where we were
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: kind of switching it. They were doing a paper plate
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: where they were using their fingers to dot paint all
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: over the paper plate and one of my kids, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: have a pre skull that I do right now. A
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: few little kids they hate having things on their hands.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It's just a sensory thing, you know. They don't like
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the paint on their hands, they don't like how it feels.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It's just not their thing. So instead they used a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Q tip and they dotted it in the pain, and
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: then they did not So they're still doing the same thing,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: just kind of switching it a little bit to make
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: them feel more comfortable and more supported in it.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, I think we have to set them
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: up for success.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: We can't get too bogged down by what something is
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: supposed to be or how it looks in the end. Right,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: we have to be more flexible, Yeah, and open for that.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit more too about
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: instilling a sense of creativity, Like how do we get
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: our kids engaged with more creative, more playful ways of
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: going about things? Like sometimes I think it's not intuitive
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: for everyone. So is there a way to foster a
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: love of that?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I think leaning in when you see them being
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: creative and kind of helping them to take it a
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: step further. Like if your child is you see them
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: out collecting sticks, you can kind of guide a little,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: you know, like hey, what could we make with that?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Can you think of something you can make with that?
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Or you know, if they're playing with their coloring, let's
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: see like hey, maybe what if we added some extra
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: paper to that? What if you cut up paper and
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: glued it? What could you make? So I think setting
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: up these like little instances for them to try to
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: be creative and leaving it open ended because there is
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: a great stop for here's a craft, here's what we're
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: going to do. Make it that's fun. But also just
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: giving them craft supplies and letting them be creative is
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: also really important. And like you said, it's a skill
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that not everybody has. So the more that you give
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: them that open ended time and allow them the time
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: to be creative, the better they're going to be. And
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: then also knowing if you have a child that doesn't
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: like the open ended you know, because there's something kids
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that don't and it frustrates them and they want you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to give them some guidance, Give them guidance and you know,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: kind of give as much as you can without doing
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the whole thing.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Right right, provide some ideas, ask some questions. Yeah, and
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: you know, as you were talking about that, it reminded
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: me of my own kid when he was getting science
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: kits in the mail. He never wants created what the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: kid was made to do. He only did his own
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: thing with it right, and he loved it. This was
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: pure joy for him. He could care less if he
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: made what was on the instruction paper. It was so
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: much more fun to him to just be creative with it.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And at first I was like, oh my gosh, I
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: bought this thing and it's supposed to be this right,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: And I was like, wait a minute, he's probably learning
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: more sure doing what he wanted to with those pieces,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And it was really fun to see the ingenuity. It
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: was really fun to see what he could come up with.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: And I also was learning stuff about him by doing that, right,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I was learning more about his interests, his skills, and
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: what else he might want to do.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: But it's hard sometimes as a mom, Like you said,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you're like, I bought this, this is not what you're
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to do. You want to just like do what
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: it's meant to do. But like letting go, you got
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: to experience so much more with him than you would
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: have probably otherwise.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally. It was so much fun. To see
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: what he would come up with. It was crazy. I
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: mean it was never anything I would have thought of, Right.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. And then you learn like, Okay, their brain
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: is so much cooler than mine, why are they doing that?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Like the same with LECO kids. Oh yeah, you'd
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: really want this kit, but he wouldn't build the thing
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: that the kid was to build, and he just built
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: what he wanted to.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: But it was still amazing.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: There's so much sort of parenting wisdom in that in
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: like just being okay with letting them do their thing.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Child led is really important, right yep, And that's where
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: we get to the good stuff. That's where they're learning
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the most, Yes, right, when they're the most engaged. How
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: do we help kids who really sort of resist the structure?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So maybe not every time we can let them do
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: whatever they want to do. Maybe it's you know, a
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: focused like school activity where they're learning to write letters
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: or something like that, so we need to focus on that,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: but they sort of resist that structure, they even resist
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: doing that particular activity. Do we just pivot or is
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: there more to it?
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: I think pivoting is a very great tool that we
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: can use as parents, as like you said, being flexible.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: But I also think there's value in giving them one
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: or two choices to do. You know, so maybe you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: know that your child is one to resist activities and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: resist doing the school thing. So instead of saying, okay,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: we're gonna sit down and do this, you say, okay,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: we've got two different things that we can do today,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Which one do you want to do? And tell them
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: about both and let them choose. So it feels more
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: like their idea. They're excited and they've gotten some independence
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: in it, you know, to let them pick, But then
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: they're still doing the structure. They're still getting this specific
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: time and not getting to just have a free for
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: all all day long.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, which can be what they really want. Yeah yeah,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and harder and really difficult to stop sometimes, right for sure.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: But like too, when you know your kid, know if
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: it's just not going to work out that day, and
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you can pivot and then you can come back to it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: You know. I talk a lot with parents about the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: fact that, you know, neurodivergence is a developmental delay. We're
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: not saying that your kid is never going to tie
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: their shoes, We're just going to give up on it completely.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: We're just pushing it down the timeline a little bit, right,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And so exactly, we can always come back to things
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and we don't have to fit all the norms, right,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: We don't have to sit down and do things perfectly,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: because nobody learns from that, really no.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And I as a kindergarten teacher, I would get parents
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: always asking me, like, what do they need to do
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to be ready to kindergart? Do they need to learn
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: all their letters? Do they need to? And it's so
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: funny that you're saying, like the developmental part of it
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: is the same with letter learning, Like learning letters is developmental,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter if your child learns them at
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: three or five. One's not smarter than the other one.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: They're just they just weren't ready yet. So no matter what,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: even if you drill it into them for years, it
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter if they aren't ready. So my advice to
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: parents always is expose them to it. That's all you
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: can do, you know, like give them opportunities to see letters,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: talk about letters, play with letters, build letters with Plato,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: build them with legos, do whatever you can to just
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: expose them to the letters. And then one day you're
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: going to be shocked that they're going to say, oh, hey,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that's an a that's a beat. You know, It's really
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: crazy how fast it comes and how it doesn't matter
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: if you've sat down and written letters or if you've
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: just talked about them. So making it something that they're
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: excited about, that they're loving is the best way for them.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that reminds me too, just being open to
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the ways that they learn, yes, and recognizing that sometimes
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: they are learning when we don't think they are. Yeah.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: You know, my son's kindergarten teacher said, I can't even
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: get him to sit at the carpet or anywhere near
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: the carpet during reading time, right, Like, he's off, He's
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: in all these PlayStations, he's doing all these things, which
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: was a complaint, of course, But then she said, every
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: question I asked about the story I was reading, he
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: was always the first one to raise his hand. He
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: always has the right answer. Yep. I'm like, yeah, because
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: he needed to move to listen and hu and he
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: needed that movement. But like, you never know, there are
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: so many different ways to listen, and it isn't just
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: sitting still making eye contact. And I think that's important
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: in this conversation too, that like, even in creative things
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and playful things, sometimes we do want to hold kids
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: to that. Yeah, you know, this is my idea of
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: paying attention and getting things done, like we can be
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: more free with it.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And like you said, knowing your child's learning
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: style is so important, and I think a lot of
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: parents don't realize that, And so getting on their level
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: and doing these activities with them will help you to
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: know how they learn. You know, you'll be able to say, Okay,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: my child is very visual, they need to see the
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: math before they can do it, or my child's thinking
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: it in their head. They don't want to use manipulatives.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: They just want to do it, you know. So knowing
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that as a parent is going to help you with
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: your kid when they're little, but then as they grow.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: So you can be a source to the teacher and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: you can be a partner with them in helping them
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: to know what your child will need to succeed.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: How do we partner with teachers? So if we have
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: a kid who's in preschool or elementary and outside of
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: the home, how do we help them to want to
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: incorporate more play and creativity into learning? And can we
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: influence that.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I think you definitely can. I think parents need to
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: not be afraid to be partners with the teacher, you know,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: because I think if you have a good teacher, they
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: want to be your partner in this. They want to
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: know what's best for your child. They want to help
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: your child, they want them to succeed. So being involved
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: in your child's education, whether that looks like you're going
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: in and you're meeting with them before school starts and
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you're talking through what has been helpful to your child
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: to help them succeed, or you're coming in and you're
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: volunteering and you're getting to see your child in the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: classroom and see what they need. I think just being
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: open and having open communication with them is going to
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: help to help your child succeed in their school and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: also at home.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And we can also always add learning at home, right,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: we can add too what they're doing at school with
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: more creativity at home. Kelsey, will you tell everybody where
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: they can find information about your subscription box and connect
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: with you online so that they can learn more and
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: maybe subscribe as well.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm on Instagram at Learning with Kelsey, and
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: then my website is learning with Kelsey dot com and
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: that is where the boxes are, and then on Instagram
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: we're just I just share a lot of good tips
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and fun things that you can do with your kids.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Awesome. I will link that up for everyone in the
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: show notes as well, which is at parentingadhdanautsism dot com
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: slash three one five per episode three hundred and fifteen.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Your enthusiasm is contagious and I
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: love talking to people who are just so passionate about
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: helping kids learn like it can be fun. It doesn't
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: have to be a chore. Yeah, for sure, I appreciate
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: what you're doing.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you so much for having me on.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: It was so fun to talk to.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: You back atcha. I will see everybody next time. Take
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: coaching at parentingadhd adutsism dot com and at The Behavior
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Revolution dot com.