Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Dr. Raymond Osarogiagbon, Chief Scientist at Baptist Memorial Healthcare Corporation

Transcript

Dr. Raymond Osarogiagbon, Chief Scientist at Baptist Memorial Healthcare Corporation · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

• 0:00
  - Prepare to dive into the forefront
• 0:02
  of healthcare innovation at our 14th annual meeting coming
• 0:05
  up on April 8th
• 0:06
  through 11th at the Hyatt Regency in Chicago, with thousands
• 0:10
  of industry leaders converging over four dynamic days
• 0:13
  of discussions on crucial topics from health IT
• 0:17
  to executive leadership.
• 0:18
  It's where the future of healthcare takes shape.
• 0:21
  We can't wait to connect with you in person
• 0:24
  and engage in these important conversations.
• 0:27
  - This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
• 0:30
  I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Raymond Roon,
• 0:34
  who is the Chief scientist at Baptist
• 0:37
  Memorial Healthcare Corporation, Dr.
• 0:40
  Osro gba, thank you so much
• 0:41
  for joining us on the podcast today.
• 0:44
  - Thank you, Laura. It's my pleasure to be with you
• 0:47
  - Now.
• 0:48
  I know we've got a lot to talk about,
• 0:49
  and I'm really excited to learn more about
• 0:51
  what you're doing at Baptist Memorial Healthcare.
• 0:53
  But before we dive into my questions,
• 0:54
  can you tell us a little bit more about
• 0:56
  yourself and your background?
• 0:59
  - Thank you, Laura. Uh, I'm a thoracic medical oncologist
• 1:02
  and a health services researcher at the Baptist, um,
• 1:07
  cancer Center in Memphis, Tennessee, um,
• 1:10
  where my official title is Chief Scientist for the, um,
• 1:14
  healthcare system.
• 1:16
  Um, I'm an implementation scientist, um, and,
• 1:20
  and director of our multidisciplinary
• 1:23
  thoracic oncology program.
• 1:25
  I'm also the principal investigator
• 1:28
  of a pretty exciting project we have going on.
• 1:31
  We call the Mid South Miracle.
• 1:32
  I'll be delighted to share some of that with you today.
• 1:38
  - Absolutely. Fantastic. I, I think that sounds great.
• 1:40
  And you know, I, I'd love to dive right in there.
• 1:42
  Can you tell us a little bit more about that project?
• 1:44
  Uh, what really you're digging into and what you're finding?
• 1:49
  - Yeah. So the Mid South Miracle comes out of, uh,
• 1:53
  the problem of where we are.
• 1:55
  Um, my healthcare system,
• 1:58
  Baptist Memorial Healthcare Corporation,
• 2:01
  is the dominant care provider in the Tri-state region
• 2:04
  that includes most of Mississippi, uh, chunk
• 2:08
  of eastern Arkansas and West Tennessee.
• 2:11
  But we spill over into parts of Kentucky
• 2:15
  and Missouri and Alabama.
• 2:18
  Um, this region of the United States has some
• 2:21
  of the highest per capita cancer incidents
• 2:24
  and mortality rates.
• 2:25
  Uh, so that's the lemon.
• 2:28
  The lemonade is that we have taken a population, um,
• 2:33
  based perspective, um, bringing existing sciences,
• 2:38
  uh, team science, implementation science, population science
• 2:43
  to look strategically at the challenge of care delivery
• 2:48
  to our very high risk, large volume,
• 2:53
  very diverse, um, population.
• 2:56
  And, and that has given us this perspective that, um,
• 3:01
  building rigorous programs
• 3:03
  and building, um, highly skilled teams within the programs,
• 3:08
  uh, can actually help us deliver care efficiently
• 3:13
  with better outcomes, uh, and better cost effectiveness.
• 3:17
  So this is the basic, um, perspective
• 3:22
  where the challenge comes
• 3:23
  and the solutions that we're applying to meet the challenge.
• 3:29
  - Absolutely. That's great to hear it.
• 3:31
  And certainly, you know, there's so much, um, opportunity
• 3:33
  as you mentioned in that space to continue to grow
• 3:36
  and develop and serve the community better.
• 3:38
  So when you're looking at this as a whole, what are some
• 3:40
  of the big issues that you're
• 3:41
  following in healthcare right now?
• 3:43
  What's top of mind for you?
• 3:45
  - The top of mind for us is how to extend access
• 3:48
  to uniformly high quality care
• 3:51
  in sustainable cost-effective ways that lead to
• 3:56
  good population level outcomes.
• 4:00
  That is kind of the big task that we have, um,
• 4:05
  tackled and, and,
• 4:07
  and we're, um, looking at how
• 4:10
  to not only build our programs,
• 4:12
  but a, a at train a workforce that is tailored
• 4:16
  to meet the demand.
• 4:18
  So looking at not just the kinds of people we have,
• 4:21
  but the skill sets that they need to be able
• 4:24
  to deliver the care that we want to be able
• 4:27
  to provide uniformly,
• 4:29
  but also how to enhance the care we deliver
• 4:33
  by leveraging technology, technology.
• 4:36
  So, so deploying robust,
• 4:39
  highly functional programs to open up access
• 4:43
  to diverse populations while delivering care at a
• 4:48
  cost effective enough, uh, manner to be able to
• 4:52
  sustain the, the demand, uh,
• 4:56
  and the growth of our programs is a very
• 4:59
  exciting, um, challenge.
• 5:01
  And, and we are looking at how best to leverage, uh,
• 5:05
  information technology to,
• 5:08
  to enhance the care that we deliver.
• 5:10
  These are the exciting things that we're engaged in, um,
• 5:15
  looking forward to serving our population better.
• 5:20
  - I love that. I, I think that makes so much sense.
• 5:22
  And you know, that magic word access, uh,
• 5:25
  to high quality care, you know, it certainly sounds easy
• 5:28
  or is easier said than done, um,
• 5:30
  but I, I'm really interested in particular,
• 5:33
  when you look ahead, um, what about
• 5:35
  that makes you excited and what makes you nervous?
• 5:38
  What aspects do you really see as being, um,
• 5:40
  coming together versus areas where, you know,
• 5:43
  you're running into a few more challenges?
• 5:46
  - Yeah, we get me excited is the early
• 5:48
  results that we have seen.
• 5:49
  So we, we have been very rigorous in, uh,
• 5:53
  implementing these programs, designing them,
• 5:56
  benchmarking them, testing them, implementing them,
• 6:01
  constantly collecting data to ensure that we know, uh,
• 6:06
  at any given point in time
• 6:08
  where we are in relation to our goals.
• 6:11
  So some of the results we have seen are really exciting.
• 6:14
  Um, Laura, I'll tell you, so for example,
• 6:17
  our mid south miracle, essentially, we're deploying seven
• 6:21
  specific programs across our healthcare system, uh,
• 6:25
  to help improve the outcomes of lung cancer patients.
• 6:28
  So, so, um, we, we have two,
• 6:34
  um, early detection programs, uh, conceptually.
• 6:38
  One is conventional lung cancer screening,
• 6:41
  but another really exciting program we have is our
• 6:44
  incidental lung nod program.
• 6:46
  Basically using technology to help us hoover up, uh,
• 6:50
  the results of, um, radiologic images that happen
• 6:55
  to demonstrate the possibility of a pre-malignant
• 6:59
  or malignant, uh, uh, lung lesion.
• 7:02
  Uh, which we found to be even more effective than
• 7:06
  lung cancer screening by expanding access to the possibility
• 7:11
  of early detection to a much wider range of our population,
• 7:16
  including people who would never have qualified
• 7:19
  to be screened, uh, finding lung cancer early.
• 7:24
  Similar to what we find with screening, being able
• 7:28
  to deploy, um, multidisciplinary care, uh, delivery
• 7:33
  to this diverse population is another program we have
• 7:38
  disseminated, uh, tobacco control programs.
• 7:41
  That's another one. But also when we find these early lung
• 7:45
  cancers, one of the key things that we know we have
• 7:49
  to be able to do is deliver safe, effective,
• 7:52
  curative intense treatment.
• 7:54
  So surgical quality, pathology, quality, biomarker based,
• 7:59
  uh, decision making for treatment have been major components
• 8:03
  of our Midsouth miracle.
• 8:04
  And then finally, you know, giving people access to
• 8:08
  what I call tomorrow's treatment today,
• 8:11
  which you can only do through the auspices
• 8:13
  of a clinical trial.
• 8:15
  So expanding access to clinical trials across this
• 8:20
  huge diverse six state population
• 8:23
  that traditionally has been a research desert
• 8:28
  is part of the excitement.
• 8:29
  And the results that we have seen
• 8:31
  so far are very encouraging.
• 8:33
  I'll just tell you real quick, we are finding
• 8:36
  that the lung cancer patients who receive their care within
• 8:41
  our structured program environment have
• 8:46
  three times the, uh,
• 8:48
  better survival than the aggregate group of
• 8:52
  lung cancer patients whose care is delivered
• 8:55
  outside these programs three times.
• 8:57
  The median survival of lung cancer patients cared for
• 9:01
  outside our programs is about 11 months.
• 9:05
  The median survival of the, uh, patients
• 9:08
  who receive their care within our programs about 36 months.
• 9:12
  36. So we, we, we are really excited about this
• 9:17
  and looking forward to disseminating this across the land.
• 9:22
  - That is really impressive to hear,
• 9:23
  and certainly, you know, exciting
• 9:25
  that you've gone this kind of outcomes.
• 9:27
  And then too, to be able to look ahead and scale
• 9:29
  and grow the program to potentially affect more people, um,
• 9:33
  seems like it would be a really great
• 9:34
  opportunity. Completely.
• 9:37
  - I agree, Laura. - Absolutely.
• 9:41
  From your perspective, um,
• 9:43
  what do you think most effective healthcare leaders will
• 9:45
  need in order to be successful over the next two
• 9:47
  to three years, especially as healthcare changes
• 9:49
  and we learn more about, you know, where, um,
• 9:52
  where we can be most effective in helping
• 9:54
  people in populations?
• 9:56
  What should leaders keep in mind?
• 10:00
  - Yeah, that's a great question, Laura.
• 10:02
  Um, I think the number one is that we have
• 10:05
  to have a population health perspective, uh,
• 10:09
  especially in cancer, uh, where there is so much pathology,
• 10:15
  so much if you will, misery where there is also so much,
• 10:19
  uh, mortality still.
• 10:22
  So, so looking at the health of our populations
• 10:27
  is got to be somewhere at the heart
• 10:29
  of everything we do strategically.
• 10:32
  So designing our systems to be able to,
• 10:36
  um, prevent, detect early
• 10:41
  optimize treatment to get it to the people who need it,
• 10:46
  where they need it at the time they need it in the safest
• 10:50
  possible way, is a big component of our
• 10:54
  strategic mission.
• 10:56
  Now, the, the leaders of healthcare systems not only have
• 11:00
  to be strategically sound,
• 11:01
  but they also have to be tactically astute.
• 11:04
  We have to figure out the steps that either take
• 11:08
  to actually implement high functioning systems to,
• 11:13
  to essentially guarantee us the outcomes
• 11:16
  that we, uh, desire.
• 11:18
  And one of the things that has to be
• 11:21
  hardwired in the DNA of of our leadership has
• 11:25
  to be comfort with data.
• 11:27
  We have to be comfortable abstracting, analyzing,
• 11:31
  interpreting, and then using data to guide us
• 11:35
  as we deploy resources, um, across our populations.
• 11:39
  And to be able to do that, we have also to be
• 11:43
  very comfortable with adopting technology.
• 11:47
  Technology has to be somewhere at the heart of the solutions
• 11:52
  to the problems that we tackle
• 11:56
  - That is so important to note,
• 11:57
  and especially from the technology side.
• 11:59
  But really, you know, looking at these entire initiatives,
• 12:01
  obviously take resources, um, and time and energy.
• 12:05
  How do you think about it from the health system level
• 12:08
  perspective and being able to actually devote resources,
• 12:11
  whether it's time or,
• 12:12
  or financial as well, um, to putting forward, you know,
• 12:16
  these, these types of population health programs
• 12:19
  that are really preventative measures.
• 12:22
  Um, but at the moment, you know,
• 12:23
  might not have strong funding mechanisms from at least
• 12:26
  payers in, in the traditional way
• 12:27
  that health systems have brought in
• 12:29
  money, if that makes sense.
• 12:31
  - Yeah, Laura, that's a great question. I tell you.
• 12:34
  So that's somewhere near the heart of the whole Mm-Hmm,
• 12:36
  matter, um, be
• 12:39
  because, um, nothing is sustainable
• 12:43
  if it does not have return on investment.
• 12:47
  So, so one of the things that we have
• 12:49
  to be very clear-eyed about is what do we want to do?
• 12:55
  What investment will need require to do it?
• 13:00
  And what is going to be the return on that investment?
• 13:04
  I, I think where we run into trouble sometimes is when we
• 13:09
  get, um, um, when, when we allow our,
• 13:14
  our emotions, uh,
• 13:16
  overcome our clear eye pragmatic thinking, um, and,
• 13:21
  and it gets back to the model that we use
• 13:25
  to figure out when we are making,
• 13:29
  when we're being successful, and when we're not.
• 13:32
  So, so the, the idea of population health does require
• 13:36
  that the reimbursement models, uh, provide us the incentives
• 13:42
  to make the upfront investments
• 13:44
  because we know we will get these returns.
• 13:46
  Because the, the problem is if you don't have return on your
• 13:50
  investment, where as a healthcare system
• 13:53
  or any other system, you, you will quickly run out of
• 13:57
  resources with which to do whatever good you sought to do.
• 14:03
  We as a society, um, we have to understand that
• 14:07
  and continue to work hard to reconfigure our,
• 14:13
  our models of reimbursement in that direction of
• 14:17
  wellness care, um, the health of populations.
• 14:21
  Now, one of the things that I have been able to articulate
• 14:26
  to my c-suite leadership is the, the,
• 14:29
  the concept of the model.
• 14:33
  So as our contracts are increasingly value based,
• 14:37
  one of the things that we're able to demonstrate is you,
• 14:40
  you can't just rely on continuous high volume pathology.
• 14:45
  Um, what what we want to emphasize is,
• 14:48
  is the value to the system of higher levels
• 14:53
  of survivorship, uh, delivering high quality care
• 14:58
  within structured systems with better outcomes
• 15:02
  yields us, you know, armies of grateful survivors,
• 15:08
  almost in an annuity system where people survive
• 15:12
  and they, they, they're grateful
• 15:14
  and they come back for additional care
• 15:17
  over hopefully many years.
• 15:20
  There is a model there that makes it cost effective
• 15:24
  for healthcare systems.
• 15:26
  - That's such a great point and,
• 15:28
  and really fascinating to think about.
• 15:30
  Dr. Osro Giba, thank you so much
• 15:32
  for joining us on the podcast today.
• 15:33
  This has been a fascinating discussion.
• 15:35
  I hope to connect with you further to discuss
• 15:38
  and go deeper into some of these points,
• 15:39
  but really, you know, great to speak with you today
• 15:42
  and really learn more about what you're
• 15:43
  doing about this memorial.
• 15:44
  Thank you.
• 15:46
  - Thank you, Ms. .
• 15:47
  Enjoyed our conversation today, Laura.