Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 361: Islands, Big Woods, and Northeast Bucks with John Altman

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Ep. 361: Islands, Big Woods, and Northeast Bucks with John Altman · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: your host Mark Kenyan in this episode number three sixty one,
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  Speaker 1: and today I'm joined by John Altman to discuss his
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: unique methods for targeting mature bucks from the Big Woods
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of Maine to the coastal islands of the Atlantic Ocean.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Al Right, welcome to the Wired Time podcast, brought to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: you by Onyx. I'm joined today by John Altman for
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  Speaker 1: a really cool chat. I think at least. John is
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  Speaker 1: a die hard deer hunter from the East coast of
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  Speaker 1: Maine who has been chasing mature bucks across the Northeast
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  Speaker 1: for decades now, and he's doing in some really unique
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  Speaker 1: and interesting ways. You might be aware of what I'm
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: talking about if you've watched the new show over on
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Real Tree called Sea Bucks. Well, in short, what he's doing,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: he's chasing big deer in the big woods, and he's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: boating and kayaking to islands and find giant bucks out
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  Speaker 1: in those spots too, and he's getting great deer and
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  Speaker 1: all these different unique tough scenarios. So whether you hunt
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  Speaker 1: in the Northeast or not, his ideas I think can
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  Speaker 1: be applicable. You know, when you're listening, think about how
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  Speaker 1: you can take little bits of his tactics and apply
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: them to your own scenario, whether that's in the Upper
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Great Lakes or the Deep South. His water access tips
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: are really interesting. His ideas for hunting big timber could
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  Speaker 1: be applicable in a lot of scenarios. It just might
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  Speaker 1: be the trick you need to take your hunting to
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  Speaker 1: the next level. So this is a fun one. We
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  Speaker 1: dive into some really really interesting scenarios. I'm excited for
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: you to hear it. So without further ado, I want
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  Speaker 1: you to get right into it. So thank you for
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: listening and enjoy all right with me. Now on the
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  Speaker 1: line is John Altman. John, wel them to the podcast.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being here. Thanks, it's great to talk to you.
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  Speaker 1: I'm excited for this one. I every year I tell
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  Speaker 1: myself I need to do a better job of talking
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  Speaker 1: to folks up in the Northeast. There's so many listeners
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  Speaker 1: up there, and I just inevitably fail. That is an
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: annual failure on my part. So so John, I'm putting
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  Speaker 1: the pressure on here because you were trying to help
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  Speaker 1: me achieve one of my yearly goals. Can you do that? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I can, I can help. I'll try to represent as
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  Speaker 1: best as I can for the Northies. Uh. So that said, then, John,
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  Speaker 1: can you just give me a little background as to
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  Speaker 1: who you are and you're hunting experiences leading up to
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  Speaker 1: this point and uh, and what kind of brings you
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  Speaker 1: here today? Sure? Sure, So I've been in Maine for
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: about twenty five years. UM. I came really is a
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  Speaker 1: building contractor. That's what brought me to the area. UM,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: and the building market was quite strong. So I'm on
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  Speaker 1: the coast of main Um. Pretty much when you come
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  Speaker 1: into a when you crossed the border down in New Hampshire,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you sort of parallel the coast and you just start
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to go east. You don't really go north anymore. And
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  Speaker 1: so we're we're on that kind of end of that
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  Speaker 1: uh direction of going east on the coast. And um,
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  Speaker 1: that's sort of what brought me to the area. I
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  Speaker 1: found myself uh in my way into deer hunting kind
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: of late in the game. I didn't really start to
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  Speaker 1: deer hunt until my early twenties. UM. I shot my
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  Speaker 1: first year when I was about twenty two years old
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  Speaker 1: and I was all by myself. I didn't really have
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  Speaker 1: anybody to sort of mentor um. And it's sorta been
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  Speaker 1: that way all the way through. You know. I just
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: sort of had the opportunity, um to just sort of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: venture out, and UM it's been sort of that's kind
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: of been my road so um. So, So we we
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  Speaker 1: like to hunt big deer, you know, big mature white tails. UM.
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  Speaker 1: I think hunting is one of those things that you know,
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  Speaker 1: is um in the eye of the beholder, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I like to I like to chase big deer, but UM,
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  Speaker 1: I think it's great just to be out there. And
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  Speaker 1: some people need to just go out and shoot a
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  Speaker 1: deer and put it in the freezer. And and I
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  Speaker 1: certainly understand that too. UM. But our passion uh is
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  Speaker 1: really big mature white tail UM. To us. That's you know,
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  Speaker 1: at the year that's five years or older. You know,
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  Speaker 1: that's really when we feel that years is mature. UM.
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  Speaker 1: They're hard to find, but they're out there, and we
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  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time looking for them, um and
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: then keeping an eye on them. We sort of follow
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  Speaker 1: them along. You know. We get pretty excited when we
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: find you know, three year olds, and and then we
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: can stay on him until four and then we're pretty
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  Speaker 1: confident they're settled down enough, they're gonna be there, and
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  Speaker 1: and um, we keep an eye on them for a
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  Speaker 1: while and and uh, sometimes we get an opportunity at them.
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  Speaker 1: You know, so much of so much of the white
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  Speaker 1: tail hunting media out there, this podcast included, uh kind
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  Speaker 1: of comes out of the Midwest or of some part
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of the agricultural world that part of the country. So
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  Speaker 1: a lot of the tactics and strategies and the dear
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  Speaker 1: behavior you hear about is is kind of centered around
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: that stuff. We I'm curious from you is is how
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  Speaker 1: much of that stuff is applicable to what you do
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: or how your dear behave or do you feel like
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  Speaker 1: you're you're operating on a totally different playbook because the
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  Speaker 1: deer and the habitat and the strategies needed are so
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  Speaker 1: different up in the Northeast. Yeah, Um, I think it's
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  Speaker 1: really it's very very different. Um. A lot of it
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  Speaker 1: just starts with the way the land is managed, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we're heavily heavily would it, so we don't
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  Speaker 1: have a lot of hag UM. So it's very easy
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  Speaker 1: for these deer to hide and and mature. UM. But
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  Speaker 1: that being said, it's also very difficult to find them. UM.
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  Speaker 1: So our hunting strategies I think are quite a bit
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  Speaker 1: different from the Midwest. UM. We can hunt um pretty much.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: The law in Maine is that if it's not posted,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: you can hunt it. And so that's very different than
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: than most of the rest of the country, where you know,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: you have leases and privately and and stuff that you
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: just can't access. So so we can hunt in a
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  Speaker 1: lot of different places, and I think that is one
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  Speaker 1: of the reasons, UM, we've had such great success because
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: we can move around very easily. If if one piece
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  Speaker 1: isn't working or or we don't have a mature deer
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  Speaker 1: on that piece of ground at any given time, you know,
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  Speaker 1: we can just move. And you know, we have a
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  Speaker 1: lot of ground that we cover UM. So you know
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  Speaker 1: we have that working for us. UM. But you know,
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  Speaker 1: I don't have a field that I don't have a
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: seventy five acre bean field that I can blast, you know,
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  Speaker 1: preseason or even during the season and and start to
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: figure out patterns of of mature deer and where they're
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: coming out. UM. That just doesn't exist. Um, we have
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: you know, ten acre fields, a pretty big field on
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  Speaker 1: the coast. We can have some eg but it's a
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: little more inland. And uh, and then when you go
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: up north, you know there's quite a bit of blueberry
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  Speaker 1: ground up there and potato fields, broccoli fields, things like that. Um,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: but the deer, the deer don't behave the same here.
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  Speaker 1: You know. They they have an extremely wide variety of
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  Speaker 1: um forage that they you know, they browse, they they
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  Speaker 1: eat so many different things. And I'm sure they do
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: in the Midwest too, but but in Maine, it's it's
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  Speaker 1: just amazing how they can survive. Um, you know, in
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  Speaker 1: these mature um stands of fur and spruce and uh,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: you know, eating mushrooms and browsing on things. And I
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: mean the amount of food, the amount of different variety
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  Speaker 1: of food that they consume in one day, I think,
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  Speaker 1: is it's just it's just mind bottling. Yeah, it seems
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  Speaker 1: like given that, you know, there's so many different food sources,
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  Speaker 1: there's so much timber that deer could be bettered. I'd
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  Speaker 1: imagine in so many different locations. It's got to be
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  Speaker 1: really hard just to find them, to find where you
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: need to start. How do you start that process? For
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you guys? How do you find that beginning point where
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  Speaker 1: those deer are? Yeah? So, so we really, you know,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to hunt these big mature deer. I mean we really
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  Speaker 1: we use cameras a lot. Um. I wish I could
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I could sort of deny that, but I can't. You know,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: we we use um these yeah, I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm kind of of the old school, right. I really
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: don't like the technology. I don't like it when that,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you know, comes into play, especially when your harvest a
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  Speaker 1: big mature deer. But I don't really know how else
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  Speaker 1: to do it in the Northeast, you know, if you're
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: really looking for those mature, mature white tail, Um, you can't.
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  Speaker 1: You can't just expect that you're just going to go
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  Speaker 1: out and sit in the woods and find one. I
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  Speaker 1: mean you might. I I kind of believe that everybody
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  Speaker 1: gets um, you know, a lucky buck in their hunting career,
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  Speaker 1: you know, or they might get a lucky buck um
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  Speaker 1: one that they just happened happened to you know, sort
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  Speaker 1: of get on. I mean that how happened to me once?
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  Speaker 1: And um, you know, I was both hunting and I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: was hunting in a new area, and UM, I really
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: didn't know what was in there. I just had seen
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  Speaker 1: really good sign and I pushed up in there and
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  Speaker 1: and I shot a beautiful, you know, mature, um white tail,
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  Speaker 1: and and that was my lucky buck. You know, I
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: didn't really know, I didn't even know he was there.
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  Speaker 1: But is that going to happen again? Probably not, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I I doubt it. Um. So we so we we
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  Speaker 1: find them, um, and then you know, we just collect,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: we continue to collect information, We take notes, We actually
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: keep log books. UM. Now with the pictures, it's it's
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: really easy to organize, you know, all of that information
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: so that we can see you know, when particular thero
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: in certain areas at different times of the year, and
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: UM we can. We've I've made a lot of conclusions,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: um about deer and deer behavior based on all of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that logged information, especially when you when you chase these
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: deer for multiple years. UM. You know we've had some dyear. Well,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: well bigfoot that we shot last season, you know, we
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: had been chasing that deer for six years. UM, so
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: we had a lot of intel on him. UM. We
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: had studied him for quite a while. So Um, that's
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: how we that's really the key to how we kind
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: of zero in on where the deer are at at
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: a given time and and sort of the most valuable
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: piece of information for us is is where that deer lives.
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  Speaker 1: You know, where what is his home? You know, where's
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: his bedroom. And once we get that figured out, um,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: we can then you know, sort of develop a haunting strategy. Um. So,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: so that's that's the that's really the critical piece that
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: we're looking for is really where his bedroom is. And
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: sometimes we pinned that down by just finding out where
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: he isn't you know. It's like we'll put cameras out
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and that information is valuable to us as as where
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: he is, you know, because then then we can we
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: can cross areas out and say, well, you know, early
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: part of September, he's just not he's not in this
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: zone at all. And and then you know, we don't
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: have to worry about that piece, you know, and the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: dear behavior gets pretty solidified, especially when they get at
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: that old you know, they really start to to um
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: sort of become creatures of habit um, and we see
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: them repeat themselves year after year sometimes you know too
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: within the week is not even to the day. And
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and it's really bizarre when you start seeing that and
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: kind of map out It's crazy. Now, what about where
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: you specifically put these cameras when you're trying to get
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: that intel, whether it's just to to figure out if
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: there's a good deer in this general area, or when
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you're trying to find the bedroom of a specific buck.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: It seems so different than what I'm doing here in
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the Midwest, where I can you know, you set cameras
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: on a scrape, on a field edge, or you know
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: there's an obvious pinch point between two fields. There's much
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: more clear cut sign and evidence of okay, this is
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a good spout to put a camera, or some states
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: you can put out bait or a mineral or something.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: How do you get your cameras set and how do
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: you put them in spots that they're actually going to
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: get pictures in the intel you need. Yeah, well, we
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: can't do any of that baiting. Um Well, I mean,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: you can feed deer after a certain time in the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: year after the hunting season closes and stuff like that. Um,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: but we can't really do that when we're trying to collect,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you know, information that's going to be kind of critical
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: for hunting. Um. So it's we do the same thing.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have scrapes, you know, scrape lines that
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: will put cameras on. Um. We have a lot of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: natural food source that we feel like that deer are
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: going to go to first, like, for instance, apples. You know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of wild apple trees, and that
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: to us is a real go to. Um. You know
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: deer well, um, you know, every apple, every wild apple
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: taste different and the deer know it, you know, and
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: so and so do we. I mean, we pick him
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: up all the time and we're like, apple is no good,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: this one's really good. Well, pretty much parallels for the deer.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: You know, if you like it, they like it. And um.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: So so that's one of the places we get a
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: lot of our early season information because those apples start
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: falling and then you know it is that deer under
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that apple tree at two o'clock in the morning, there's
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the under that apple tree, you know, in the last
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: hour daylight, and then that's going to give you you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: from that you can make conclusions on well, how far
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: away was it when he got up? And so you know,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: we started rowing it down like that UM. And I'm
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: not gonna say that we know just exactly where that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: deer is betted. But you know, we like to think
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that we can get, you know, basically within a few
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: hundred yards of where that deer is um. And I
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: think sometimes we're even a lot closer than that. UM.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: But but if you can, you know, if you can't
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: get that close, then you've got you know, you've got
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a pretty good chance when he gets on his feet,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: if you still got an hour daylight, uh, Um, you
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: know you're gonna you're gonna increase the chances of you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: intercepting that deer. UM. So I don't particularly like to
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: have cameras in spots where we are going to hunt. Um.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: But that being said, I mean the reason I can
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: say that is because a lot of these deer, we
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: we study for multiple years. So UM, I can eventually,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: you know, make that conclusion that this is where I'm
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: probably gonna hunt it, this is where we're gonna have
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: our best chance of intercepting. And so let's not put
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: a camera in there now. But but the year before
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I might have had a camera there, or even during
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: even the year before that. So UM, I feel like
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the deer are a lot more sensitive to cameras than
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: any of us really believe. And we've started putting cameras
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: up really high. We we oftentimes will climb trees, you know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: we'll take sticks in with us and you know, get
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: ten feet up in a tree and name the camera
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: almost you know, not straight down, but on an angle.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: We we collect less information that way, but I feel
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: like getting it, you know, out of sight is a
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: really good idea. UM. So we you know, Bigfoot, the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: steer that we just killed last season, UM, I really
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: believe that. UM. We killed him because of the decision
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: we made not to put cameras in where we were
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: going to hunt him. UM. We had done that every
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: year prior. And I think just that foot traffic of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: going in and checking those cameras, UM was enough to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: just give him the edge and push him, you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: a few hours back. UM, and he was you know,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: his activity was he was still coming into that area.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: He would tolerated a little bit, but it was always
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you know, nocturnal movement. So UM, you know, I I
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: think you can overdo it with cameras really easily. UM.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: But But on the other hand, I don't think we
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: can do what we do without him, you know. So
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it's one of those double edged sword. It's a fine line.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: So so this buck bigfoot, um I saw. I watched
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the hunt for this buck on on this new show
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: that you're part of called Sea Bucks, and it's a
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: wild situation because I think this is absolutely has to
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: be pointed out. This big buck that you were hunting.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You killed him on an island in the ocean, right,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I mean off the coast of Maine. You were taking
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a boat into across the water to an island. How
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: does everything you just described with your trail cameras in
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: that kind of scouting is that is that applies directly
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to the island hunting just as much as the mainland
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: big woods hunting. Orde to do things different on the islands,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: um No, I think you know, our strategy is kind
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: of the same in terms of trying to zero in
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: on that core area for the deer, the home base.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: But but you know, the island just it's that island
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: hunting thing just brings a whole mother set of challenges,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you know, just from everything from the water crossings to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: being out there to matv gaistion. You know, in the
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: dark you know, overnight weather, all that stuff. Um. But
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: these islands that we're hunting, you know, most of them
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: are um you know, it takes about half an hour
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: to an hour and a half to run in a
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: small skiff out to them. UM. So you know, we
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: we as much as we like to hunt out there,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: there's just a whole lot of time that we can't
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: even get out there because of the weather. UM. So
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: we have a we have a you know, we always
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: have a backup land. We know when we want to go,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: but oftentimes we can't get out there then, um and
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: we get pushed off or sometimes we get stuck out
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: there too um longer than we to anticipate it. So
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: it just it brings a whole another level of of
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: sort of challenges to it, which we really like, you know,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: we're into that sort of expedition style hunting. Um. But
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: but really, I mean, I think that the information we're
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: collecting is the same whether we're on an island or
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: whether we're in a you know, what we might consider
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: like a fifteen hundred acre block of woods that were
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that we're working on, and you know, so it's it's
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: it's the same same concept. Can you can you walk
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: me through that process with Bigfoot, because it sounds like
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: it was many, many years long of trying to figure
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: out this buck. And I'm curious in particular about the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: unique aspects given that it was an island. I gotta
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: imagine access is really unique. How your wind is manipulated
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: by the island or just by the fact that you
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: blow your wind out of the water. I don't know.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm very intrigued by that whole thing. UM.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Could you walk us through from the from the beginning
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of how you have found this island, that buck everything? Yeah? Yeah, Well,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: so we had a lot of different islands, you know,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: we don't just it's not just one. UM. Maine has
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: this very unique coastal island opportunity that UM starts in
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: September and it's I think it's been about nineteen years
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: now that they've had coastal island hunting and it started
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: because they needed that the there to be managed out
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: on the islands. You know, people aren't really going out
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: to them, and the deer populations were such that they wanted,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you know, more deer to be taken off the islands.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So they gave us additional tags UM, which really is
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: as a hunter, particularly as a bow hunter, was a
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: real bonus because Maine is pretty is pretty much always
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: been a one tag state. So you you you're geting,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you're given one tag, and you know, if you're an
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: upcoming bow hunter and you need to get that experience,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard because you get you know, if
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: you're lucky, you get to shoot one deer and you're done.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Um and we all know how much sort of unfold
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: after you take that shot. I mean that's that's sort
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: of you know, half the hunt right there, if not
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: more than half the hunt. And um So so this
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: island opportunity was huge for us, you know, and we
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: started going out there year one out two different islands,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: um and we would you know, we would harvest does.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: You could harvest multiple does. You could shoot a second bock,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: um a second to your mainland tag. Um. So it
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: was a really great opportunity for us to develop, you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: hunting skills. Um. So that's kind of how we got
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: into it. And then you know, it just evolved to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the point where I think deer numbers started to come
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: into check and um, we we're less you know, excited
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: about shooting does and we sort of were more excited about,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: you know, zeroing in on bigger, mature white tails, and um,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: we found that you know, if you let these deer
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: walk you know, if you have a two year old
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: or a three year old, you know, you really are
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: opening the door to something much bigger, um unfolding for you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And and um, that was you know, that was just
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: kind of part of that whole learning curve for us,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean we we were very much like
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, whereas that first book that walked in,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and if you had to a shot, you
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: took it, you know, and I think for a lot
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: of folks that's that's main you know, that is the
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: hunting opportunity in Maine. And I don't have you know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I don't have any problem with that. I completely understand that.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: But but we we we a long time ago we
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: decided to just sort of let those deer walk by
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and and and then sort of see what was going
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to happen. And we realized, wow, there's we we really
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: have some giants, you know, we have some old deer. Um.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: So that's that's where it all started, you know, That's
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: how this whole island thing started. For us and then um,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you know, we've just taken it to the point where, um,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: we have access to different islands. Again. UM, some of
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the islands are are privately owned, UM, some of them
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: are UM owned by the states, some of them have
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: conservation easements. So there's sort of a different package of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: goods that come with every every island. And so we
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time um, sort of analyzing that
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and trying to figure out, you know, where we can
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and where we can't hunt, and if we can't hunt,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: what we can and can't do um. And so so
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: then we we sort of take that to access in
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: terms of how far away the island is, what's involved,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: what kind of piece of water we have to cross.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: We use these small eighteen foot lund Alaskan boats, um,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: which are which are quite seaworthy, but it doesn't take
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: much to to put yourself in a compromised position, you know. UM.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: So so we are you know, we're constantly kind of
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: dictated by sees, winds, direction, storms, things like that. UM.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So so with that in mind, you know, having a
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: lot of different opportunities, a lot of different islands that
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you can go to is really helpful because you can UM,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: you can kind of based off the weather, you can
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: adjust your plans. UM. You know, some of them are
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: are further than others. UM. And then we often get
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: out there and we camp um for you know, a
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: week at a time. UM. And then we we usually
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: access our tree stands via kayaks, so when we're going out,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: we're we also have these sit on top kayaks until
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: UM and we found that UM, those really have increased
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: our our chances are our odds in terms of getting
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: close to deer, just because we don't have to use
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: an aluminum boat. UM. Throwing an anchor in, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: even even when you're being just as quiet as you
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: possibly can your hundred yards offshore, you throw that anchor in,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: or you came in with your your outboard. UM, it
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: just it just sets the deer off. So uh, four
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: or five years ago we started UM sort of camping
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: in one spot, and then we'll paddle a mile or
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: two sometimes sort of sometimes we'll so can navigate the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: island if we have to paddle all the way around
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the other side, so that we can come and really
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: quietly with these kayaks. UM. We have a you know,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: we have a twelve foot tied here in Maine, so
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of water moving in and out. It's
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: a very rocky shoreline. So UM, these kayaks are nice
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: because you can come in at low tide and you
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: can pick them right up and and walk them up
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: to the high tie line and tie into a tree
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and you can actually you know, so we use ocean kayak.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: That's what we have been really you know, happy with um.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: They make a lot of different sizes and um. The
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: other thing I really like about those boats is their
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: their field hulls. So um it's kind of like a
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: big floating you know, barge if you will. And UM,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: it's just a piece of mind knowing that you have
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a couple of those in tow or even in your
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: boat with you when you're in some compromised, um conditions
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that you know, the waters water is pretty cold. You
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: can't you can't survive in the main water for very long,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: even in September. Um. So knowing that you have something
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: that's not thinkable, um is a peace of mind, you know. UM.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So then you know, we we we we sort of
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: take advantage of being on the island for that block
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: of time, you know, week at a time, and UM,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: we don't we don't push it. The wind is is
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: really complicated, um, because you know, it gets affected by
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the rising in the setting of the sun and then
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: just what happens on the water, the direction of the swell.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: You know. Sometimes we'll think the wind is perfect, we'll
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: go to access our standing, will will round a point
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: on the island, and we'll start to go into our standard.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: It's exactly the opposite of what we thought it was,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you know, and that's just something that you have to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: have to deal with. UM. That particular hunt on big Foot, Uh,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: we we had to give up quite a bit for
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that hunt. That was a sit that, UM, we knew
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the chances were really good based on the information we'd
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: collected on that dear over the years, that he would
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: he would still be right in that zone. UM. But
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I remember walking in and UM feeling like we were
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: giving up probably of what we were trying to hunt. UM.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: But it was it was one of those decisions that
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: we made because I felt pretty confident about the rest
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of what we had, you know, UM, and I think
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I think that's you know, that's it. That's very different
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: than hunting the mainland, you know, like you know, when
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: you're on an island you kind of you have you
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: don't have a whole lot of places you can go. Um,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: so you definitely have to be flexible. You have to
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: be willing to give up a little more, um in
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: terms of win direction and stuff like that. Can you
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: can you describe this area, like where was this area
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: that you zeroed in on him? What was the kind
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: of stuff he was living in? Where did you learn
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: over those previous years, Because didn't you have three or
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: four or five years of history with pictures and stuff
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: leading up to this particular hunt. Yes, we did. We
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: had five years for the pictures with him, so um yeah,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: so um. I you know it was he was He
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: came into what what I would call sort of an
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: old apple orchard, uh, sort of homestead area. There was
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: an old stone foundation. You know, you wouldn't really see
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: it unless you really spend a lot of time there,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: but but there was an old stone foundation there, and um,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: so you know he it was. It was an edge basically,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: he was not far from what we would consider to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: be an edge here in the northeast. You know, it
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: was it was a sort of transition from mature pine
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: spruce um forest with some elevation that then broke out
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: into sort of a fern area and then um got
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: into some growth that you would see kind of uh
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: might have grown up in an old field, you know,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: which is very different than that pine spruce you know
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: stand and um. You know, as we all know, a
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: lot of you know, dear love the edge, right, and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: so they're always kind of they're always kind of on
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that edge. And UM, so he came, you know, he
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: was probably bettered in the in the shade on a knole.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Uh when we set up on him. I think he
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: was probably a hundred and fifty yards away from us
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: at most. Um. And UM, you know, I think it
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: was it was so early. It was like four thirty
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon, you know, it was. I mean we've
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: been in the tree for you know, maybe settled down
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: for half an hour. And UM I saw bigfoot pick
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: his head up, and and I and and the thing
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that's so incredible about that is we have never seen
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: this year. You know, we have pictures of them, but
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: we have never seen him with our eyes. UM. So
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: when he picked his head up, I I just you know,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: basically I like weed one, you know, because just because
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I saw him, you know that was like, what whether
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I was going to get a chance to shoot him
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: or not. I mean he was like seventy yards away,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and I got well, you know, I don't know if
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: it's gonna if it's gonna go our way or not.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: But but we got to see him. You know, that
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: was a huge victory. Um. And so but then it
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, it was like everything we knew
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: was was correct about him. I mean he did just exactly.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: It was like he was on the hooking line, you know.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I mean he just came right down what we expected
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: him to do. He just he was going right to
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a particular apple treat which are are our information said
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that that was a tree that was his preference, That
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: was the apple that he liked the most. That was
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: always the apple that fell first. You know, I mean
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: those little things like that. You know, if you study
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: an area long enough, you figure that stuff out. You know.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It's like we knew that that tree didn't produce a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: lot of apples. They were sweet, they would fall early,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: um and that and that, you know, oftentimes we would
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: get pictures of him and um, we happened to run
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: a couple of cameras in this area and so um
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: years prior, and so you know we would be we
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: could make those conclusions. He came there, he ate that
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: apple first half an hour later, maybe he was over
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: on another one. UM, but that's where we were set up,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: and he just came right in and he just, you know,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: he just did exactly what we thought he was going
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to do. UM. I was afraid to stop him. I mean,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: anybody that watches that footage can show and there's probably
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: after wonder why did they stop him? And I just
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I was afraid, you know, I was afraid to just
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: introduce anything other than what was absolutely natural for him.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: And um, and I just thought he was gonna bolt.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: So so when I shot him, you know, he got
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: a half a step on me. You know, he was
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: walking through the trees and there was he can't really
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: tell from the footage, but there was quite a few
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: young poplar trees that were in there, and you know
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: those are definitely working on me when I made that shot.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And um, but he got a he got a half
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: a step on me. And you know my arrow was
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: six inches further back than I wanted it to be.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: And I knew it, you know, immediately, I knew exactly
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: what had happened, but I knew I also knew he
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: was that he was dead deer, you know, so it's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: just going to be a hard recovery. Would you look
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that that dear really taught us a lot? Yeah? Would
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you do anything different looking back on it? Specifically on
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: the shot? I know you recovered him, but it was
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: a tough recovery. Um, did you do what you had
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: to do? Or would did you learn something from that
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you would change next time around? Um? Well, I mean,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I I don't think I've ever been on a track
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: that I haven't learned, you know, something or a lot
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of things. Um, but UM no, I don't. I you
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: know that's that it was what it was? I I, um,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you know, in hindsight, could I have waited, you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: he was going to pick up an apple? I couldn't
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: maybe waited for him to get to that apple and
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: shot him. But I might have had a tree in
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the way too, you know. I mean I usually make
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: those decisions on instinct, and my instincts told me that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: it was time to shoot him. Uh. I knew Josh
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I had the camera on him. I knew, I knew
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: everything was good on that end. Josh and I have
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: spent so much time in the woods, and um, I
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: just knew he would, you know, he was gonna let
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: me know if there was a problem, and and uh
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: so I knew Josh was good. Um I don't think
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: it shows in the footage, but when the deer came in,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I had a really good shot at him, but Josh
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: didn't have the camera on him, you know, or he
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: had the camera on him, but there was a tree
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: in the way, and so he told me not to shoot.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: So I kind of I did have an opportunity prior,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: um just to shoot him pretty much broadside. Um. So
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean that that's that's hunting, you know,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and you have to go with your instinct. Um that
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: liver HiT's always a hard one. I think that you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: have to know, you have to know, um you know
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: what to do about it. I think it's a it's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a deer that is very recoverable. It's just you just
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: need to know, you know how to go about those
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: those steps. And I've seen liver shot dear, you know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: survived for a long time. So, um so we knew,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: you know, we knew we had to get out. And
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I was surprised that he was still alive when we
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: got to him. But it didn't it. I've seen it
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: happen before. You know, Um, I don't think he had
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: much life left it What have you gotten up? I
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: think he would have gotten up and he would have
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: ran if I hadn't shot him again. But um, I
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: don't think he would have gotten far, you know, I
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: mean it would have been it would have been a
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: pretty easy track to follow. Um. But I'm glad it
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: unfolded the way it did and I got that second
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: arrow in him, and and um, even you know he's
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: a warrior. Even after that, he uh, you know, he
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: still had his head up when we gave him a
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: half an hour after I shot him right through the lungs.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: You know, he he laid on the ground. He's still
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: alive half an hour later after you know, sixteen hour
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: liver hit. You know, he didn't bleed at all from
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: from the second shot to where he laid and died. Um,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: he he didn't have any blood left. You know. So
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: these these big maturity are absolutely incredible. Um. I mean,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Josh said it really well. He just said that they
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: are so good at living and he is, I mean
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: he couldn't have said it any better. They are just
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: absolutely incredible survivors. They really are. You can't help but
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: respect him, that's for sure. So so a question for
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you when it comes a little bit more to the
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the lessons you've learned just hunting all these different islands,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: because I gotta believe that that some of the things
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: you're doing are applicable to people that are hunting islands
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and other parts of the country. There's there's river bottom islands,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: there's islands in may inland lakes that might hold deer.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I can think of a few in the in the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Great Lake area that have deer that this might be applicable.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Other than the access deal with the kayaks, are there
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: any other little tricks that uniquely work for you when
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: hunting islands that are different than what you do on
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the mainland. I'm wondering. I guess it's a two part question.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I do this is a bad habit, but that's part
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: one of the question. Part part two of the question
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: is can you get away with more aggressiveness on an
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: island because these deer live on this island. They don't
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: want to hop in the river or hop in the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: water and swim to the mainland or swim to another island.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: They're they're gonna put up with you pushing in a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: little bit more like you're not gonna blow them out
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: of the country. Is that true or is that not true?
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So that's my two part question. Yeah, well, let me
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: get the second part of that first. You know, most
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: of the islands that we hunt, the deer don't leave
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: um um. That being said, you know, deer have been spotted,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: you know, often by lobstra man and things like that,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: you know, swimming you know, from the mainland at an
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: island or or or often an island back to the mainland.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: But the characters that we have chased over the years
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: have pretty much always been there. You know, they don't
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: leave um. And you know, most of these islands are
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: are a mile to say, five miles offshore, you know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: so it's a pretty big commitment for them to leave.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I think they could leave if there was enough hunting pressure,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: they might choose to um. But but they what we
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: have found is that they stay there um and and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: are our pressure UM which is really not a lot
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: um you know, allows them to to sort of stay
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: you know, in their core um. I don't think. I
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: don't think we often blow them out. UM. So UM,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: that is I think probably the second part to your question,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: the first part um, you know, I'm there's just a
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: lot of techniques to it, um in strategies with this
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: whole boat access thing, I think, UM, I think there's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: a lot to gain from from that, you know, from
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the whole it's a lot of extra steps. I feel
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it's really worth it because you're gonna get You're gonna
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: find yourself in a place that a lot of people
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: just aren't going to go to. UM, and that being
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the case if you're hunting big mature dear, you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: that's that's what what we consider to be like percentage points.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: You know, will and I my son William, we have
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: this sort of joke. We do some really crazy stuff,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: you know, to hunt these white tail and um, oftentimes
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: we'll do something and we'll look at each other and
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: we're like, you know, this is not you know, like
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: can you believe we're doing this? And then one of
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: us will say something like, well it's maybe two points
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: or maybe it's half a point, you know, and it's
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: like we we sort of stack up all these little
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: moves and in into these percentage points and you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: obviously the big piece of it, you know, I I
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: believe there's there's a luck involved, right, and that's one chunk.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: But then there's all of this gained you know, uh,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: percentage that you can do by your actions. And UM,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: so we we do as much as we can. I mean,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: if we can think of it, we do it, you know,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to sort of stack the odds in our favor. And
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: then you know there's there's really the the year, you know,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and and um, you know, at the end of it all,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, he gets up and walks to us, right,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: so it's like whether that's going to happen or not.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I guess that kind of goes back into the bucket
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a lock, you know, But um, that's what happens at
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: the end. You know, we're there, We've put ourselves there,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: We've studied an area, we get set up. We're very
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: portable mobile, you know, we don't rarely do we have
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: stands that are just like the stand. You know, we
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: move around a lot. We have really small, lightweight stuff.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: We usually use, um climbing sticks, portable climbing sticks. UM.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: We rarely leave anything behind. UM in these areas because
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: we well, for one, we just we don't want to
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: We don't want other people to know really where we're hunting,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: and we just want to respect, you know, the right
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: to be there. And so generally we walk in and
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: walk out with our stuff. Um, So you know that's
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: kind of our approach. I really do believe there's a
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: lot to be gained though, if you want to put
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the time in for water access. So are there any
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: tricks you've learned over the years when it comes to
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: water access, whether it be you know, how you organize
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: your kayak or I don't know, are there anything specifically
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: when it comes to boating or kayaking into a hunting
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: location to make it either quieter or more efficient, more
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: effective or safer anything like that. Yeah, well, I mean
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: one thing I will say is you do you do
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: sort of have to have a plan A and a
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: plan B, and you have to be flexible um because
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the water, you know, just poses um you know, a
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: lot of uh, a lot of risk um and so
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: rarely do or we ever, in a situation where we
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: don't have gear, even if we're checking cameras, you know,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: we have a water bag that's got to sleeping bag
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that in it. And you know, we
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: just be prepared to not be able to sort of
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you know, execute plan A and know that maybe it's
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: gonna be planned B. I mean, we've been stuck out
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: on islands for three or four days longer than we
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: wanted to be UM just because of weather. UM. So
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I think that UM, the safety, I think
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: it was one that I would say, you really really
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: have to have that organized. You know, navigation is really important.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of fog and Maine. UM. There
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: are times when you know, it's like we call a
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: peace soup. You know, you just can't even see anything
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: in front of you. And you know, without like we
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: use on X religiously. I mean that that that app
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: is absolutely incredible for us UM and and and you know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I mean there are times when we're in a kayak
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: and you can't see the shore, you know, and you're like, well,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: you know, or you can't see your point of access,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Like we have to paddle for twenty minutes, say, down
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: the coast line and you know, hit our hit our
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: trail to go into a stand and you can't see anything,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: you know, and the on X brings is it's it's
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. It brings us right to our spot. You know. Um,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of these a lot of these islands. You know,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: we don't have a trail network, so you know a
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: lot of times we're just walking through timber to find
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: our spot, um that we've marked you know earlier or
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the year before or something like that. Um. But being flexible,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I think is is really it's really important for the
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: whole island or boat boat approach. Um, having a seaworthy boat,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: having a secondary sort of means of of safety, whether
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: it's a a rubber boat in tow or whether it's
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: a ki act like you sit on tops that we've
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: been using, is absolutely critical. Um. I know when we
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: first started doing this, we didn't have any of that
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: stuff figured out, and we used to get out there
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and pull our boat up above the high tideline and
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and then we you know, when it was time to go,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: we'd have to wait, you know, for the tide to
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: be high to push it back in and all that.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: You know, Now we anchor our boat offshore, and we've
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: learned to trust our anchors, which is not always easy
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to do. So man, yeah, it seems it seems like
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: a fascinating way to hunt. Um. Now that said, you
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you're finding big old bucks on these islands, but you're
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: also finding big old bucks on the mainland. Two. Um, absolutely, yeah,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I know the trail camera aspect is the same across both.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: But what about where you're finding these deer or where
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: they're betting or feeding? Um? Are there any other things
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: now when we're moving to the mainland that changed when
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: it comes to your hunting strategy, you're finding is dear sure? Sure? Yeah,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Well I would sort of add to that a little
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: bit and say that that the real attraction for us
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: with the island thing is that we can start hunting
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: in September. Okay, So so the mainland season opens in
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Maine in October, the mainland both season. Um, so you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: we we can hunt for an entire month out on
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: the islands, you know, prior to the mainland season opening.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So that is that is really a big attraction to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: us because we go their own that extra month of
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: hunting and we get you know, deer movement that is
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean there's a lot of changes between
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: September and October and then November, and so we really
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: love that month of September. Um, so in order to
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: do it, we have to go to these islands, you know.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So then you know, in October it starts to get colder.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: We're hunting the mainland. I think we probably have more
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: opportunity for big deer on the mainland than we do
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: on the islands. UM. I don't. I don't think that that, um.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's uh, it's stacked in our favor
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: on these islands. We've been successful. But um, but I
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: think you're really in terms of finding big deer, and
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a lot easier to move around for
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: us on the mainland, you know. I mean we can
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: drive twenty minutes in one der actually and twenty minutes
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: in another direction. Kahana piece of ground. Um. You know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: usually when you're on an island, you're there. You're stuck there.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: That's that's the piece that you're hunting. It's rare for
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: us to move from one island to another during a trip,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't generally do that, um, but we
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: can do that h in the mainlands. You know, we
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: can one one day we can be working on particularly
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: during one area, and and two days later we can
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: be in an entirely different zone because the winds changed,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you know. Um so so, but we do we we um,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: you know, we we get right after it um in
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: October on the mainland. Um. We we generally you know,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: have gotten our island phil um you know by the
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: end of September um and then we come back, you know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: and start hunting the mainland pretty hard. So it seems
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: like from the outside looking in that it's just hard
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: to find bigger or older deer in the Northeast. It's
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: just it's just hard to find him there. Maybe aren't
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: as many antler growth is different than the Midwest. Uh
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So a lot of guys struggled just to find any
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: buck that we we've already talked about how how you
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: find them this deer with the cameras, But how do
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: you actually find those spots where the big old boys are?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is it simply just listening to the cameras
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: or are there certain zones or do you have to
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: get so many miles off the road, or do you
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: have to get so far into the mountains or anything
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: that you found this unique to where you find the
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: big old guys. No, I I mean I think they
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: can really surprise you. I can think they can be
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: right under your nose sometimes. Um. You know, we shot
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: a few years ago. We shot on the mainland. We
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: shot a deer that we only had a relationship with
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: for two years. Um. He was twelve and a half
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: years old, and um we we uh we zeroed in
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: pretty quickly on where his home range was. Um. We
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: didn't shoot him the first year. Obviously the second year, UM,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: we ended up shooting him. Uh. At the end of
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: it was Thanksgiving Day, so it was pretty much the
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: end of the rut, and um he had come back.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: He had left for a while during the rut. I
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: don't like hunting the rut it's in Maine or in
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the Northeastern general. I really don't because we can't see
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: very much, you know. Uh, A lot of times we're
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: hunting in these stands. You know, our effective range, you
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: know is is you know, maybe fifty yards a lot
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: of times. You know, most of what we hunted a
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: boat seat, you know, even with our guns. So, um,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: we just can't see very far. Um. So so you know,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: you get a run, you get running activity going on,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: and you're not seeing it now it's happening. It happens
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: like it, you know, happens in the Midwest. And and
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I love to hunt in Illinois because I love to
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: see I love to see all that stuff, you know.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: And main we just we just kind of have to
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: imagine that it's happening. We know what's happening, we just
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: can't see it. Um. So um yeah, so so you know,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: but that deer, that that deer that I'm talking about,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: we called him the Ranger. And we didn't have a
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: lot of experience with him. He wasn't he wasn't deep
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: deep in the woods. I mean he was you know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: from from our parking spot. He was thirty five minute
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: walk into the woods. You know, that's to us, that's
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: not very far, you know. Um. And he he was
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: basically he had developed that home range because of hunting pressure. Um.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: That's really what pushes him into That pushed him into
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: that zone. Just a place that that people didn't easily
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: get up into. It was kind of overlooked. And U
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: you know, we figured that out about him. I mean
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: I think you know, you start to you start to
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: read the land, you know, when you when you study it.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Um that that was pretty obvious to us. And um,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I really wanted to shoot that deer with
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: my with my bow. I hunted him the first two weeks, uh,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: during the gun season I hunt. I continued to hunt
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: him with my bow, and um, I knew I was
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: making it harder on myself, but I really want to
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: get him with my bow. And then it got quick,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: got really cold, and I started to get tired, and um,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: I started taking my gun and and I ended up
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: shooting that deer at eighteen yards with my rifle from
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: my stand. So and he was twelve and a half
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: years old. He was, you know, a big old, big
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: old main white tail is like just the biggest blockiest
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: head you could imagine. Um, just a tank, absolute tank.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I think he dressed and it was like two to
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: twelve or something like that. But he was he'd been
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: run out. He was. He was a tired old man.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: When I caught up with him, he had his head
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: hanging low. Yeah. Yeah, can you describe that that tree
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: set up because you killed that buck there? And then
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in your buddy, I think, I think, Josh, he killed
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: one in this recent season of sea bucks from that
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: same tree I heard, And then I think that I
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: remember hearing one of you guys mentioned that your son
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: shot or missed a buck there too. So what makes
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: this spot other than the pressure pushing deer into it?
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the exact setup. What makes that so good?
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Why are these deer coming by your tree like that? Yep,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um, it's a knoll. Um, it's
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: just a it's kind of a go between kind of spot.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of food there, um, but we
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: do we have we have some food, you know, we
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: have some oak trees, Like there's an oak stand not
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: far from there. Um. You know, it's a hinch to us,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: but it's not a pinch that you would identify like
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: that you would walk in and say, oh, look that
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: you're going to be pushed down in here, because there
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: it's not an obvious pinch. But um, but it's it's
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: hard for me to describe that. But but you know,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: we have those obvious pinches and we found that that
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: that deer really don't like them. They just don't want
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: to go through them. And over the years we've we've
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: we've stayed away from those kind of spots. But this
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: is sort of this is the sort of acceptable pinch.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: You know that white tail will tolerate. So, I mean
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: it has it has that who's going for it? Um,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: But it's nondescript. I mean, you know, it's it's open,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: it's mature pine spruce. Um, it's it's it's a little
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: bit of high ground that has a little bit of
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: swamp edge to it. There is an edge, there is
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: a there is a definition that happens in there. And
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I think that's why that you like to travel on it,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: because there's a swampy you know piece that then you know,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: kind of bleeds into like mature time spruce. Um. William
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: missed a big buck up there. You know, I shot
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: the ranger there, Josh shop patches there last year. Um,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I think they just dropped that episode and that that
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: was that was a really great hunt. He was you
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: know that that year. That morning was with another year
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: that we founded it called we call him Slick and
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: um we had both of those year twenty yards you know.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I mean it was like, that's an incredible day in Maine,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know in the northeast, that's
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: that's an incredible day, you know. Um. So, but but
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't he wouldn't walk through a spot like that
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and go oh, this is this is it, this is
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: where I need to set up. It's I think you know,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: it came to us by just trying it, you know
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: and having a lot of encounters. Um. We did run
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: some cameras in there, and we realized that there was
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: you know, we call him hundred year trails. You know,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're really established deer trails. Um. But
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: that being said that deer aren't just hammering them every day,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: but um, they're they're there. Their trails that represent to us, um,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: a connection between kind of like one zone and another zone.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: And this is kind of in the middle, you know,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: in between those two things. So so we get deer
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: that they are moving through, they're not going to stay
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: there for very long. UM. So that that's that's that's
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: a really incredible spot. Um. And hunting pressure is what
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: pushes those do look into that zone, you know. So
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: so that's where you know, that's where things change. You know,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: things change so much through off the season because you
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: know those two aren't really there early. You know, they
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: start to get up in there once people are are
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: climbing around in trees, you know, and and walking in
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: and out and driving four wheels around and making a
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: lot of noise. You know, that's what pushes them up
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: in air. So what are some of the you mentioned
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: that this is kind of an acceptable pinch, and it's
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: it's it's not obvious, but it's it pushes deer there
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: through there a little bit. It seems like that's one
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: of the big things that folks need to look for
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: in big woods scenarios is you're not gonna see the obvious,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: but there's these little terrain features or habitat edges inside
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: the big woods that can kind of pinch or influence
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: deer movement. Are there any other examples of that that
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: you've seen over the years you can describe for us
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: just to kind of paint the picture of other things
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: that guys or girls should be looking for like that. Yeah. Yeah, Um, well,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I think I think when you're looking at
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: at the land, you know, everybody has a different amount
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: of ground that they can hunt. You know, I mean
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, hundreds of acres, Okay, So
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: so you know that's that's that's where we start to
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: zero in. You know a lot of our habitat and
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Maine is is kind of all of the same, you
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: know it it doesn't change a lot. We have this
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: you know, mature pine spruce force and you know it's
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: rare to then transition into hardwoods. But if you can
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: find that, if you can find where you have a
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: whole lot of something that's the same and then you
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: can zero in on where it changes, that's that's really
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: what you want to look for, because that's that's what
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: the deer. You know, there's less of that, right so
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: that so that's going to be attractive to the deer
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: for for a number of reasons, you know, just because
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: of daylight, you know, because of sunlight, because of different
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: food source, because of the change you know that's happening
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: when you transition from one to the other. Um, that's
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: that's really the key. And so we look, you know,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: we look for that. We can say, oh, this is
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: a two block of you know, mature pine spruce. It's
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: all dead, rotten and blowing over. Well, I mean that's
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: great deer habitat. But they need more than that. So
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: then we start saying, okay, where, you know, where does
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: it change? What what are the what are the you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: is their field is their meadow out here? As there swamp,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: you know, and then we start studying those areas you
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: know where where where it changes. Um. But the big
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: mature you know, pine spruce force, it's all blowing down
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: is great betting for deer. I mean, they love that stuff.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: So you can't get anywhere near them, you know, um
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: because you're climbing over you know, trees and um, you're
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: just making too much noise. You know, they're gone way
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: before you ever get there. So UM, I think I
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: think you know, and that's hard because so you know,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: some people have a fifty acre block awoods that they
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: can hunt, and maybe it's all the same, maybe there
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: is no difference you know in what they have, um.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: But but trying to find just subtle differences, subtle changes,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be really helpful for people
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: to do, UM because the deer, you know, it's the
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: it's their home, you know, I mean, they know they
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: know where that is and that's where they're gonna be.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: So do you have do you have a favorite example
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: of of something like that other than the ranger stand?
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: We just talked about that one, But is there another
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: favorite example of a big woods tree set up that
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: you have hunt in the past, or that you hunted once,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: but you realize all this is perfect anything ideal that
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: kind of illustrates those things you just discussed that comes
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: to mind. Well, I will say there's spots that just
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: aren't attractive and like visually attractive where you want to hunt.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: And I still get like, um steered by those, you know,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: driven to those, but often they're not, you know, the
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: best you know spot to to have an encounter. You know,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: it's like you know, they're visually they're great. They're like
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: you know, on the edge of a on a on
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: a stream or or um, you know, on a big
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: meadow where you can see way out into the meadow. Um,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: and and you know you look at that and you guys,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: this would be a great place to sit. And it
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: is a great place to sit, but it's probably not
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: gonna be, um the best place to have you know,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: multiple encounters with big deer. So um. But I don't
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: think I could really, you know, I don't I don't
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: know that I could draw a picture of of of that.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I sign, you know, we just get really
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: excited when we see a lot of sign, you know,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: and and then we start everything starts happening based on that.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: You know, um our food sources change a lot over
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: the years here, you know, we don't. It's not like
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: we have crops that the deer are. You know, maybe
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: there's a rotation between corn and beans wheat, but but
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't have that, right so we have UM.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: We have you know pretty much you know, eggcorns, apples,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: and then we have all the brows that's in the woods.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: But then you know we go from there, we go
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: to UM. We go to UM. You know, fields, we
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: do have fields we have you know, we do use
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: some food plots. You know, there's certain times of the
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: year and where that can be certain times the season
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: that that can be really beneficial. UM Clovers are kind
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: of go to in Maine because you know, with the seasons,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: with the winter and stuff that we have, it seems
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: to be the the feed of choice, you know, a
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: food plot for Deyer. So you know, backtal something he
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: says second ago. When it comes to sign, that's when
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: you guys get really excited when you see a lot
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: of sign. What what qualifies what qualifies as a lot
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of sign in your part of the country, and what
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: kind of sign? I mean, what I would see in
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Michigan that would get me excited might be very different
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: than what would get you excited and Maine, what what
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: exactly are you looking for that turns you on that
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: kind of yeah, well, you know, I mean the obvious
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: you know, droppings you know, Um, I mean that's one,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the thing that really jumps out when you're
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: in the woods and you see fresh you know, deal
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: droppings all over the place, an area that's tracked up. UM.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I mean we do get pretty excited when we find
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: an area that you know, it's kind of uh a
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: rubbing area, you know for deer where there's multiple rubs. UM.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think we really you know, develop hunting strategy
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: off of that. You know, it's pretty rare for us
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: to hunt a rub line. Um, but we will hunt scrapes.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: You know. That's something that um you know, and that's
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: such a great place to put a camera, right because
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: you know, all the deer are checking in, so in
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: the screen short period of time, you're gonna gain a
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: lot of knowledge on what's there and what's using it. Um.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: So UM, that's the kind of sign you know, it's
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: it's um, it's it's not it's not seeing, dear, it's
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: just seeing the effects that they've had from being there.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Speaking of seeing dear, here's another thing I've struggled with,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I guess at times, because I do some big woods
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: hunting myself up in northern Michigan, and uh, I'm still
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: figuring out. I can say I've gotten nailed by any
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: former fashion. But one of the things that I struggle
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: with is the fact that there's just lower deer numbers
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: up there, and you can't see very far, like you
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: already mentioned, and you know, deer could be anywhere in
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: that stretch, so you can't see them. There's not a
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: lot of them, and it's really hard to nail down
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: exactly where they are because they don't pattern quite the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: same as farmland, dear. So because of that, here's my question.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: I imagine you could sit a lot of days, or
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you have days where you see nothing that
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: you see one deer, and the question is how much
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: time do you give a good looking spot? How many
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: sits without seeing a shooter buck? Would you be willing
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to hang out in place or return to a place
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: if you're just not seeing what you want? Is? I
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: gotta imagine you have to have more patience than you
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: might have in Iowa, where if I don't see what
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: I want to see in day one, I'm moving in
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: a hundred yards or something like that. What's your approach there?
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Right right? Yeah? So, UM, I'll give you an example.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Last season, UM, we hunted we were scrape hunting on
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: a particular UM, we were looking for a particular deer,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: and Josh and I sat for not back to back weeks,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: but we basically sat for two weeks straight on a
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: scrape on the same scrape. UM we I don't think
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: we saw a deer the whole time on that S great.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: You know, we never had it and we never had
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: an encounter. UM, And so you know we're we discouraged, yes,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: but UM, we also knew what what the potential was.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: You know, we knew if he was if he was
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: if he was there, he was gonna come, he was
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: gonna walk by. That S great. You know, Now, this
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: is a deer we don't have a lot of experience with.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: We've only really been hunting him for UM. This was
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: this was really the first year last year that we
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: were hunting him. UM. And he had he had been
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: to this scrape the year before and he had torn
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: it up, you know, so, um, we were putting a
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: lot of eggs in one basket. Um, I think that's
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: scrape hunting, you know. Uh, it's I think it's worth
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: your time. But UM, I don't know. I think everybody
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: has a different tolerance for how much they're gonna put
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: up with. You know, Um, it's pretty hard to sit
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: for two weeks at five five hours at a time.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe you come out and have a little break,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: you know, and then go back in. But you know,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: from from sun up to sundown on a scrape for
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: for two weeks, I think that's that's borderline crazy. But
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: you know, but we knew what the potential was, you know.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: So UM, I don't know. I you know, William shoots
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: a big deer at the end of the season. It's
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: gonna be one of the last episodes. He shoots it
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: in May, and he'd come back from Alaska to sixty
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: five days in Alaska with Donny Vincent. You know, William
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: is done, Um director of photography and um he done
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: with Donnie, you know, ten years ago. If if it's
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: on film, pretty much hum filmed it for Donnie and
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: he came back at the end of the season last year. Um,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: he was back for like the last maybe maybe week
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and a half of gun season. UM and UM jumped
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: off of a plane, grabbed his gun the next morning
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: and was in the woods. And we were trying to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: keep up with him, you know, Josh and myself filming,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: and um and that was a deer that UM, we
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: had hunted for a number of years We've never seen.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: I think we were hunting. We had four years of
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: observation on him and we've been looking for him for
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: four years. UM and UM, I don't know. I lost
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: my soft aren't well you're talking about Yeah, you were
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: talking about this example of of Wale getting after this
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: buck in the late season and how it may be
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: related to the question of how long how much? Okay, yeah,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I'll back up and so yeah, so so William jumps
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: off the plane and UM goes after this year that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: you know, we had never gotten eyes on. We knew
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: a lot about him. We hunted him for four years,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: and UM, we were sitting I was hunting with him
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: that morning, and UM, I wasn't with William. Josh was
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: filming William. I was by myself and I had texted William. Oh.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: I texted William and I said, William, it's it's feeling
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: really impossible. I just I'm getting I'm wearing out. It's
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: really feeling impossible. Well impossible. Well, ten minutes later I
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: sent him a text and I said, William, I just
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: saw a giant out in the heat. You know, I said,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a good shot. I didn't take it,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: but he's out there. And William texted being in Josh.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: They were literally out of the tree within like ten minutes.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: They were on the ground and they embarked in like
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: a two hour you know, hike in around the backside
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: of his to get into position. And they killed that
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: deer in that afternoon. You know. I saw him at
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: at ten o'clock in the morning, and um, they got
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: into position and they got on them and um, you
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: know they they they end up killing this dear. He's
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: an absolute giant. You know that we've been after for
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: a long time. So, UM, I don't I think you
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: have to move sometimes you have to move, but it's
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: it's instinct. I mean, you just you just you know,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: it's like somebody's knocking on your shoulder and saying Hey,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: you've got to get out of this tree and go
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: somewhere else, and and and uh, sometimes you do, you
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: know so, but I don't know I can get I
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: think I think we hang on longer than we generally
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: want to. But but it sometimes pays off, you know,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: would it? Would you say that? Well, let me tell
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: let me tell you stuff back. What you're describing seems
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: very different than what a lot of people do elsewhere
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: where there's higher deer numbers and you're seeing a lot
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: more deer. Oftentimes, the hunt a stand once and if
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: they don't kill him the first day or the second
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: time they hunted, they're like, it's not gonna happen here
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: because the deer react to that pressure so quick. Do
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: you are you able to get away with longer sits
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: or more sits in the same place, simply because there's
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: lower deer numbers, and oftentimes probably these deer arranging further
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: so that dear year after he might not even be
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: within a mile or two for your first three hunts,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: but on the fourth day, that's the one day he
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: comes through and he has no idea You've been there,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: and now you get the crack at him. Is that
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: is that kind of the thought process behind why that
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: can work for you guys. Well, I think you know,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: again this this is has a lot to do with
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: you know, which months you're hunting in, but certainly later
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: in the season, that's I think very much the case.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: You know that, um you could hunt, you know, you
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: can hunt a week straight and and you know, and
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: you might not have an encounter with that animal, but
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: it's probably because he wasn't there, you know, as long
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: as you're covering all your bases with wind and all
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Um. So so you know, I think if
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: we feel like we're over pressuring us, but it makes
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: good sense to to leave it alone and get out
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: of there, you know, Um, if you've really pushed it,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: you know, if the wind is switched direction, or if
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: you've gotten busted. I mean, you know, we all know
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: what that's like to have, you know, deer blowing at you.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: And you know, I mean if we have deer blowing
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: at us, I mean pretty much write that spot off
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: for a while, you know, um, because you know it's
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: blown out. Um. So you know, I think the northeast
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: probably does offer a little more um sort of tolerance
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: with the deer, you know, they will probably put up
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: with us a little bit more. But you know, I'm
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: not really well equipped to answer that because I don't
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: have a lot of Midwest you know, sort of hunting experience.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do hunt some in the Midwest. UM,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: usually it's during the rut, and you know, a lot
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: of deer that I've shot in like Illinois and stuff,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: you know, UM are probably from another farm or three
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: farms away, you know, because they're just running and U
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: So I don't Yeah. Speaking of the speaking of the
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: difference between like a Midwest hunting tactic and those in
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: the Northeast, what about some of those more aggressive, UM,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: bring the deer to you type tactics. You know, in
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: a spot like the Big Woods of Maine, where you
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: can't see very far, it could be very tempting to
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: call and rattle a lot because you want to bring
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: something into range that maybe is out there, but you
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: have no idea. Is that something that works for you? Guys?
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Is that is that taboo? What's your take on that? UM? Yeah,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: So I haven't had a lot of success with that. UM.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: But but I I do rattle some you know, early
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: in early in the season, UM, and I always carry
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: a grunt to um and I you know, but but
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: but generally, when I'm using either one of those things,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm working against myself. Um. And That's
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: what I think. It's just a lot to do with
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: a personal you know, preference. It's sort of you know,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I just I just feel like, you know, it's it's
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: pretty hard to fool a white tail, you know, can
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: it happen? Sure? You know, particularly younger dear. You know,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: if you rattle, are you gonna are you gonna rattle
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: in a three year old? Yeah, a good chance that
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: that's going to happen. But a big mature white tail,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: he's got it figured out. He knows if there's an
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: other deer over there fighting, and he you know, he's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: probably not going to come over there and try to
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: clear a house. You know, he's just gonna walk away.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: You know, he's gonna he's just gonna take the other
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: the other trail. You know. So I, personally, I don't
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: do a lot of that, you know, Alright, So oftentimes
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: it's all about finding those edges, those slight pinches, the
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: things that in some way move dear to where you
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: can predict to some degree. But what about those times
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: when that's not in the cards and you actually get
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: on the ground and go to the deer. I know
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: that you've done some tracking. That's something I'm fascinated by.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: It's something I want to try this year. UM, can
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: you talk me through, you know, your approach to that.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: When when does that tactic you turn to and how
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: exactly do you pull it off? You know? Is it
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: you wake up one morning like there's a bunch of
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: snow today, I'm tracking? Or is it more so you're
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: walking to a stand and you cross the track and
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: you decide, oh, you know what, I'll take advantage of that. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: good question. Um. It's definitely something that we love to do. Um.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: We're not often given the chance here on the coast
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: because you know, we have this sort of it's almost
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: like a lake effect, you know, with the snow. Um,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: it's not that we don't get that opportunity and you
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: and generally when we do, we we seize it. You know,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: we get on it. We like we like a few
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: inches of fresh, you know, soft snow, and UM, we
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: we definitely love to track. Um. A few years ago
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: we had just a fantastic day. Josh will and I
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: we were all together. We broke up first light, we
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: broke up in the morning and UH all looking for
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: tracks and within uh, within the first forty five minutes,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I had it. I had a huge track. And uh
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: I was trying to get Will's attention and Josh's attention
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: and and um, Will said, I've got a really great track,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: and I just saw him. So it was like so
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I I left my check and we went to Wills
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: because he had he'd gotten to look at the deer.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: And um, you know, we tracked that deer all day.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: We had eight miles, it was, it was an eight
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: mile before we shot him. Um. And he made two
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: classic mistakes, or I should say we made two classic mistakes,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: UM that we didn't capitalize on. UM. You know early
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: on in that track and UM, and we we knew.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: We said, well, we're probably not going to get a
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: third chance, but we were going to keep after it.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: And it was like three o'clock that afternoon we shot him.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: We all, I mean one, he was betted on a
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: knoll up on a hillside and he had done you know,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: the typical went up on a hill, he banked, he
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: hooked off to the right and he watched us walk
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: right up the hill. And it's not that we weren't
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: looking for him, and we don't know that, you know
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: that here do that. We just didn't see him. You know,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: we got up to the top of the hill, his
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: tracks broke right. We walked thirty yards over to the right,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: and there was his bed and we could look down
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: and we could see where our tracks we are coming
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: up the snow, and so obviously he looked right at us,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: went off the back side, and you know then then
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: you know this mistake number two. This is a classic.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: Right then. Look, there were three of us, so I
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: probably should have or Josh should have one of us
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: should have just sat down, you know, right there and
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: just waited. But we tracked that deer over the back
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: side of that hill around and he button up to
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: the background, got right on his trail and came right
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: back up our tracks. So, um, yeah, so I mean,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: you know that was the That was the classic, you know,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: mistake number two. And if somebody had just sat tight there,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: they that deal were walked right to him, you know, um,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: and then it was you know, it was a few
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: miles later. Um, and I think, really where our opportunity
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: you know when in our direction was that he joined
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: up with three or four dos and he got distracted,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: and um, we were able to sort of get get
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: up in front of him, and William was tracking. William
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: had tracked that year the whole time. UM, and um
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: I was I was up ahead. I knew a train
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and I got up ahead, and um
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: that beer came, you know, came up through with those
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: doughs and I was able to shoot him. But that
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: was a seven year old, you know, sure, real heavy,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: heavy manger. So we love to track, you know, and
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: the north Woods is great. Oftentimes we have to go,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: you know, we have to drive an hour or two
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: to get up into you know spots where the tracking
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: is really good. Um. And if we do do that,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: you want to be you know, you want to be
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: set up to spend the night. Um. You know, if
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: you're on a really good track and you're deep into
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: the woods, you know, and it's you know, in half
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: an hour left of shooting light, you know, sometimes the
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: best thing to do is just drop and just camp
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: right there, um, and then take the track up in
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: the morning, because you know, if you have to walk out,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: there's a good chance you're not gonna you're not gonna
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: walk back in and get on that track again the
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: next day. UM, but you you can be sured that
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: if you track them all day, you're you're close. You know,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: you're you're you're closing the distance and um, so you
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: know that's that's something that we have to do. We
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: just don't get the opportunity as much. It's also really
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: hard to film, um for for whatever reason, it's just
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: really complicated. You you know, you'll see Brett one of
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: our our teammates with Sea Bucks. You know, he shoots
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: a giant in New Hampshire and he tracked them, um,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: and it's just really complicated, you know to pull all
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: that together, um and get the shot and everything else.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: So so you know, because of because of our engagement
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: with Sea Bucks. You know, it's it's uh, it's not
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: our our first go to you know, but it is
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: something that we love to do, you know, we really do. Yeah,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: I gotta get a little more detail on the house
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: of that. So when you start out on a day
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: when you're gonna do that, and you said in the example,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: you describe the three of you split up to look
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: for a big track, UM, where are you going to
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: find one of these big tracks? Are you just driving
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: roads to you see one cross the road or do
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: you walk out into an area you know, where you
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: think there should be a deer and and hopefully catch
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: that big track. Like how did that process start? Yeah?
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Great question. So so that particular story I was telling
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: about was actually on an island um, and it was
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: like it was everything was just perfectly lined up. You know,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: William happened to be here, Um, Josh is here, I
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: was here. So that was a big thing that we
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: got to hit on that. And then we got some
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: snow um and there was there was an island that
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: we really wanted to go there. There were two deer
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: out there that we were really after, two big, mature deer,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: and so that's what that's what you know took us
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: in that direction. But that you know, we've been trying
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: to do that for years, you know, to get out
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: onto these islands and do some tracking, and it's just
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: the conditions are are it's so hard to get that
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: to line up. So if we were tracking on the mainland,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: that's what you said is exactly the way to do
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: it is go up north, get on some of these
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: logging roads, um, and pretty much drive the road or
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: walk the road if you if you can't drive it,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: and just find a big track. Um. And you know,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: once you start studying these tracks, you start you start
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: to kind of get an idea which one you want
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: to take and which one you don't want to take
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: and um, but that's that's the best method. You know, UM,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: cover a lot of ground, you know, early on and
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: until you find the track you want, and then it's
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: all on foot from there on out. How How do
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: you tell if it's a track you want, how big
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: does it have to be? How do you determine how
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: fresh it is? How new of a track does have
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: to be to be you know, of your worth your time? Yeah,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: so I mean the size of the track is is
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: you know, generally the first thing you're looking at, you know, um,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: and then you know you based on on on that,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: you can um, you can look at the stride, Um,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: you can try to make assessments based on how much
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: snow there is if there's not a lot of snow,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: if he's dragging his feet, you know, if he's tired.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: You know, those are all things that play into it.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: And then you know a lot of it has to
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: do with where you don't where you think he's going
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: and how honrible he is based on the train that
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: is going into So, UM, I think that you know
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: is is really a big part of it is you know,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: do you know the terrain? And and is it you
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: know hontable? You know? Um? And then be a you
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: have to basically accept the fact that you don't know
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: who this gear is. You know, you don't you most
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: likely don't have any kind of relationship with him. So, um,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: could he be a three year old? Yeah? Could you
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: have mistaken that three year old track for a for
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: a five year old track? Absolutely? And so you have
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: to be at a point, you know, where you're willing
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: to accept that, you know, you might end up shooting
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: a three year old because oftentimes you don't have the
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: time to really study the dear when you get up
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean it could be such that you do,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: but good chance that you don't. Uh, you're gonna shoot
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: a running deer, So you have to be one to
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: accept that as well. UM, that's not always gonna go
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: just the way you wanted to um, So you have
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: to be prepared for that. You you really, you know,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: you have snow on the ground, so that's working in
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: your favor. If you don't happen to make a favoritable shot,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: you know, there's still a good chance you're gonna be
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: able to stay on that year because of the snow. Um.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: But there's just there's less control, you know, with that
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: whole tracking game. UM. I mean, we really do love it,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: but you know, we're not engaging with deer that we know,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: you know, characters that we've identified with. UM. So it's
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not our it's not our number one
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: go to, but it's something that is the season you know,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: goes on. It's really fun to get into new country
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: and and and uh explore like that. And so we
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: definitely like the track. It sounds like a lot of fun. So, oh,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: I gotta believe or hope that there's some people listening
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: to this that hunts some kind of big wood situation,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: whether it's in the Northeast or maybe big woods in
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: the Upper Great Lakes or big I don't know, pine
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: plantations or something down the southern part of the United
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: States where they've got lots of timber and not the
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: usual easier to figure stuff out, stuff like maybe you've
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: gotten patchwork gag land. So I'm imagining this audience member
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: right now. And let's say they're a relatively new hunter.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: So they're they're loving it, but they just have not
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: figured out this big woods kind of scenarrow which which
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: most of what we've talked about today revolves around something
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: like that, whether it's on an island or the mainland.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: And this person, this audience member, I'm gonna sit him
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: or her down in front of you right now. John,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: You're looking this person in the face, and you have
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to leave them with three things. You can
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: call them three lessons or three rules, or the three commandment,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: the three commandments of John Altman's Big Woods hunting philosophy.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: These are the only things that you want this person
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: to walk away from today. What would be those three
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: most important takeaways? Takeaways? Okay? Um, So, I think you know,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: if they want to hunt big mature white tail, they're
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: gonna have to have a lot of patients. They're gonna
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: have to have a lot of families support. I mean,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: that's one thing that you know, we're all really fortunate,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: like you know, it's a it's a huge commitment. And um,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've built our lives around, you know, hunting
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: these big mature deer, and you know we're hunting them,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: we're collecting information on them, we're getting ready for these times.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: It's a three six you know, commitment, it really is
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: where it's it's just it's seven. And you know that
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: makes it into our homes. Everybody has to, you know,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: sort of be behind it and supported or else you're
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: just you're you know, you're just putting up with resistance.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: And so I mean, I can't I can't say enough
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: about how important it is to be kind of united
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: on this front if you want to hunt big mature
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: white tail. So I think that would be number one
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: is to have have that support. My wife puts up
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: with so much, you know, because of my passion for
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: chasing these big deer around UM and so that that
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: is a really really important one. UM And I think
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: you know with that comes just patients. It just you know,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think that you need to um that you're
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: going to be successful right away. I said, I I
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: feel like these big deer, UM, they take they take
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: a huge commitment. You have to build sort of a
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: relationship with them. You have to start to identify them
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: as characters and and and and how they um respond
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: to to pressure, to weather conditions that they're they're like humans,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: you know, they they're all different. I mean, you have
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: really social gear, and you have dear that just don't
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: want to have anything to do with anybody. And so
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: you have to you have to accept that you're gonna
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: have to figure that out about the dear. Um. And
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: so I think that would be number two is just
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: kind of uh an incredible amount of patients. And then um,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I think number three is just being really proficient,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: you know, being able to make um, you know, quick decisions,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: being able to move, being able to you know, have
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: lightweight set ups, being able to adjust your plan. Um.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not there's not two sides to this coin.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: There's there's there's multiple you know sides. You know it's
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's always gonna change, it's always going to involve.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: And so being flexible, I think is is you know,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: really important. And being you know, flexible and proficient you know,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: whether you're a bow hunter or on hunter or both,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: it's just being really connected without equipment and gear, um,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: knowing that you know, if you if you're string loop
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: you know, falls off your bow, Know how to tie
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: it on again, you know, don't don't feel like you
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: have to go to the bow shop to have that done.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: You know, connect with your equipment, understand how it works. Um,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: I mean that you know, if you can eliminate that,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: you know, you know that sort of concern about your ear, No,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: know it well enough that you know how to fix it.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: You know when it's not working right. You know, if
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: if something doesn't look right, if you can eliminate that,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: then you can be so much more focused in the
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: in the moment um you know, to make that shot
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: or to make that decision that's going to get you
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: to the point where you can make that shot. So
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's just a it's just an overwhelming a
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: commitment that you have to make, you know, to to
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: hunt these big deer. I think that's really really kind
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: of all wrapped up in one. Yeah, it's ready to commit.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: Very true. All right, John, Well, this has been really interesting.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: It makes me even more excited for my potential trip
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: up to the Northeast this winter that I'm excited about. Um,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: but if people are here in this yeah, I'm gonna
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try some of the stuff out myself in
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: in New York or Maine, I think. But um, if
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: people are listening and they are interested in following along
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: with what you've got going on or watching some of
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: these hunts we've talked about, where can they find all
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: this and and learn more about what you've got going on? Sure? Well,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: we have a website main hunter dot com and that
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: showcases us pretty well, and it talks about um different
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: projects that were engaged with. It has information about us personally,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: you know, UM, some of our thoughts and beliefs, and
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: then you know, it talks about workshops and things like
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: that that we offer UM. And then obviously we have
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: a on Instagram account UM main hunter Official. UM. You know,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: we're trying to be better about all of that stuff.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: Like I often say, you know, it's not our forte.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: You know, we're the guys that are in the trees, uh,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: you know, not so much doing that stuff. But we're trying.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: We realize that the power that that uh is sort
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: of behind it all. So we're trying to to be
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: more present on that front. Um. But that's how you
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: can find us. And and I always encourage people to
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: call you know, I love to talk on the phone.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: I love to hear hear about different stories that you know,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: are going on for different people with with their pursuits. So, UM,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: we're available, you know that way people can find us,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: you know, perfect. And what about the show Sea Bucks?
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: Where can I see that? Yeah? A Sea Bucks UM
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: is on the Real Tree three platform. UM. It's a
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: sixteen episode series that we made in the Northeast. UM
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: we have you know, we're we're trying to kind of
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: showcase the variety of hunting that exists in the Northeast
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: on the Eastern seaboard. So it goes from Maine down
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: to New Hampshire and then into Massachusetts. UM. And obviously
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about Maine. The New Hampshire piece
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: of it, you know, is pretty much mountain hunting in Hampshire.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: And then we get down into Massachusetts, which is really
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: a whole another sort of approach, and that's an urban
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: style hunting. UM. There's definitely big mature white tails you know,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: in some of those urban areas, and it comes with
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: a whole another sort of package of goods in terms
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: of being successful at that UM. So, so we're trying
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: to sort of showcase, you know, the different the sort
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: of different segments of the Northeast. I think a lot
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: of people can relate to it. I think it's it's
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: it's you know, it's just sort of hits the nail
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: right on the head to a lot of really uh
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: you know, avid enthusiasts uh that that are pursuing white tails.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: So we're really happy about it. It's been a it's
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: been a lot of fun. Um, We've got some great
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: ideas for this upcoming season. Um. I think it's gonna
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: looks like it's gonna stay there on that platform, the
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: Real Tree three sixty five platform, and it may be
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: um in some other spots, maybe on Carbon and we're
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: probably gonna have it on a YouTube channel as well,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: So that's where you can kind of look for this
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: upcoming season. Very cool, awesome. Well, from what I've seen
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: so far, I really liked it, So I would encourage
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: people to check that out. If this has been intriguing.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: And John, all I gotta say now is thank you.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: I appreciate this. Yeah, thank you, And it's really great
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: to talk with you about it. This is a lot
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: of fun. Good luck this upcoming season. Thanks a lot
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: all right, and that will do it. I hope you
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: enjoyed this one. Thank you all for listening. Much more
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: to come in the upcoming weeks and monthly in the
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: hunting season. I can't wait. Hopefully you're as excited as
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: I am. And until next time, thanks for listening, and
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: stay wired to Pett and Pett