Latest / Pop Culture Junkie® / Tyra Banks Gets an 'Americas Next Top Model' Reality Check

Transcript

Tyra Banks Gets an 'Americas Next Top Model' Reality Check · Pop Culture Junkie®

0:00
♪ Entertain me, entertain me right now ♪
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♪ Mew, mew, mew, mew, mew ♪
0:09
- Hi, Shauna.
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- Hi, Olivia.
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- Do you wanna be on top?.
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(laughing)
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- For those unaware, I was during the meow version
0:21
of America's Next Top Model introduction song.
0:24
- You were a hot cast, are we?
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(laughing)
0:29
- Hello, and welcome to the Pop Culture Junkie podcast.
0:32
I'm Olivia, here with my bestie.
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- Shauna.
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- And for another all new episode of the Pop Culture
0:39
Junkie podcast.
0:41
- So, Shauna.
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How the hell are we?
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- I don't think either of us are doing very well.
0:48
(laughing)
0:50
- I think we're both hanging on by a thread and--
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- We did make an agreement that 2026 can only go up from here.
1:04
(laughing)
1:06
- That's good.
1:08
- Yeah, I think that you just got to laugh through the pain.
1:13
- We'll hear it hopefully make you guys laugh as well.
1:17
- But yeah, you look great.
1:22
That's all there to learn matters.
1:23
If you don't follow us on YouTube, you should.
1:26
- Thank you.
1:27
- You've got to keep on, do you look really good in this lighting?
1:30
I think it's just 'cause I've been crying so much.
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I have like, sultry cry eyes.
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- I'm not even gonna film.
1:37
- I'm not even gonna fill in...
1:37
- Thank you.
1:38
The hottest look of 2026 is all of us just exhausted
1:43
and crying for very serious reasons.
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- That feels about right.
1:47
- That feels about right.
1:48
- That's okay.
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And I have green hair, but we, you saw that last week.
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- It looks sick.
1:52
- I like it.
1:52
- It's very chic.
1:54
- Thank you.
1:55
- It's feeling very chic.
1:56
If you watched our episode of what cartoon,
2:00
characters on "Milk" is this being the font,
2:02
"Milk" is that "Kiko" was like one of our best.
2:05
- Yeah, and it's really good.
2:08
- I think about that episode a lot
2:10
when I see sexy cartoon characters.
2:12
I'm like, oh man, there's another one.
2:14
Or if you can tell that a furry was involved
2:18
in the animation, it's utopia.
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Like all of those ads.
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I'm like, I don't know.
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One of these people's a furry.
2:24
There's a furry somewhere on this staff.
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- I don't know who, but they're in there.
2:29
(laughs)
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- Yeah, you know, I think that in hindsight,
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probably some weird people make in child children's content.
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- Yeah.
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- But, you know, a lot of people it doesn't for sure.
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- We won't get deep into that though.
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- It's great episode though.
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I will say if you are single and you are on a dating app,
2:50
it is a great hinge front.
2:52
- Yes, it really is.
2:54
It's also extremely weird icebreaker.
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- Welcome.
2:57
- Do you know what your boyfriend says then?
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- Well, I didn't meet him on a dating app, so no.
3:04
- Oh shit, that's true.
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You met him in like real life, like a weirdo
3:08
who meets their partner in real life.
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- It's actually very cute.
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I've never told the story on the podcast.
3:15
But we met at a dog costume contest.
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- I like what a cute artist.
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- God.
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- Anyway, wait, wait, to be clear,
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they weren't dressed as dogs.
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They were dogs in costumes,
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but you two weren't dressed as dogs.
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- Correct.
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We weren't just talking about furry,
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so it's quite important.
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- I had to clarify that.
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- Yeah, I had to clarify.
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And there are a lot of furries in San Francisco as we saw.
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- There are a lot of tricks.
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- I'm John and I experienced furry videos.
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We wanted to join it.
3:46
(laughing)
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- So, I love that this is taken.
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- I feel better already.
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Now that I've seen your face and talking about furries,
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I'm already cheer-dove.
3:59
- Yeah, you can't be sad.
4:01
You can't be sad.
4:02
And if that's a cold open,
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I don't know what it is, but today.
4:07
(laughing)
4:09
- Today we're here to talk about the millennial zeitgeist,
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what we know best.
4:15
And as millennial women,
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it was truly a right of passage
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to sit through a dozen or two cycles
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of America's Next Top Model.
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We learned how to stretch down the catwalk from Miss Jay.
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We were introduced to the art of smizing
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and many other strange Tyro words.
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And we were taught that plus size refers to any woman
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between size four and size eight.
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And if you haven't figured it out yet,
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we're here to talk about reality check
4:45
inside America's Next Top Model.
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Truly, I wanna just know,
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what was your relationship to America's Next Top Model?
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We're very close in age,
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but sometimes I feel like there are
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the certain little period.
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So what was your relationship to it?
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How many seasons did you watch?
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Like what was your, were you like an ant head?
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Were you an ant head?
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- I loved America's Next Top Model.
5:13
Like I watched this religiously.
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It came out in 2003.
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So I would have been, oh gosh,
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like a sophomore of freshman in high school.
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And I definitely watched at least the first nine seasons.
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Jessica and I, my roommate watched a lot in college.
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We would just binge it on the couch.
5:37
Oh my God, there were so many.
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Or we would wake up hungover like after a night out.
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And I would go into her room and crawl into her bed with her.
5:47
We would open the laptop and just drink blue gatorate
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and watch America's Next Top Model.
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I have such vivid memories of that.
5:55
But yeah, it was one of my favorite shows for sure.
6:01
- Oh gosh, yeah.
6:02
- When I stopped watching, yeah, I wanna say it was cycle
6:06
maybe eight or nine.
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I held on for quite a while.
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- Yeah.
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- But I would probably say the same.
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I absolutely loved the show.
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I'd watch it when it came out.
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I was, I feel like I was like 13 or 14
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the first time I ever watched one.
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And oh boy, does that imprint on your brain?
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- Yeah.
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- In a deep way.
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But I always loved watching it.
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It was one of those shows that would come on on E
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and they would always do like a band-rethalm.
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So before Netflix, you've had to hope
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that a network was playing all of something,
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like all of one season.
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Like when ABC Family would play all of Harry Potter,
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I would lose my mind.
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I'd be like, we're canceling all of today's plans.
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America's next top model was one of those.
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My mom and I would watch it all the time.
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And I do think that like I really loved the show.
7:00
I loved how they, at the time, were like showing different bodies.
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I've known conventionally like pretty women
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getting like these crazy makeovers that turned them into
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like these high fashion models.
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- Oh, I think that was just like crack about it.
7:18
- Yeah.
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And we loved a makeover montage.
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Listen, millennial women love a makeover scene.
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Like clueless, princess diaries,
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America's next top model.
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Give me a makeover montage.
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Oh gosh.
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Now I'm just thinking so many movies.
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And are you that in the two?
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- The ugly ones.
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- Yes, what's that when she's coming down?
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She's all that.
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- There we go.
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90s, 2000s, true.
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- Yes.
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And at the time, I definitely agree.
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Like we thought that this was revolutionary
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and that it showed like the behind the scenes
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of being a model.
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It made every girl kind of want to be a model.
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I always knew I was too short.
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So that was okay for me.
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- I was gonna ask you.
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'Cause actually my boyfriend and I were watching it
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and he had never seen it.
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And literally like he was like,
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this show is crazy.
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Like what?
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And I'm like, oh no, like we were obsessed.
8:16
Like did you ever think you could like be on the shows?
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Like I'm too short, no.
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- Yep.
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And I always say like.
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- That's what I always said.
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You have to be like five, seven I think.
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And then later Tyra did a season for like short girls
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that were like five, seven and under.
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And I was like, here is my chance.
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But you know, that pesky education
8:35
got in the way of me applying.
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- You're a dang, yeah.
8:38
- Dang.
8:39
- But yeah, it's, and we thought that it was, you know,
8:42
it's showing all these different body types and, you know,
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such and, and there were like, you know,
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various races of women and sizes.
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But you know, now that we're kind of picking it apart
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with a 2026 lens.
8:57
And like you mentioned the beginning,
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the people they said were plus size.
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We're not plus size.
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- Yeah, yeah, like four size.
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- It's four, yeah.
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- Like these women were skinny.
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- Yeah.
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- It's crazy to look at them and just be absolutely astonished.
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And whether you dreamed of being a model or not,
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a lot of us had kind of, got to see ourselves
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in these characters.
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They definitely looked for people with like a compelling story.
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And this show came out in 2003,
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which now we live with so much reality TV
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that it's hard to comprehend like how new of a concept
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reality TV was.
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Like American Idol had just came out like Kelly Cartina just won.
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And there were very few one networks
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and even doing reality TV was quite hard to actually--
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- The Osborne's.
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- Yes, the Osborne's in TV.
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- Yeah, it was the go-to reality show.
10:01
- Yeah.
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- And that was so exciting.
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- Yeah, before the Riders strike in the reality TV boom,
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you know, this was it.
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And real world, road rules.
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- Yes, and America's Next Top Model truly
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like took over the world.
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It was America's Next Top Model.
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It went to so many different countries
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and truly just became a phenomenon.
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For really long time though, after the show ended,
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it was quite hard to find it on streaming.
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They only have like two or three seasons on,
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where you can find it anywhere on streaming.
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But that changed in 2020.
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We were all stuck inside.
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We finally got all seasons of America's Next Top Model on Hulu.
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And we are bingeing baby.
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They talk about this in the documentary too.
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Like why is everybody-- why now?
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Why are we all subsessed with, you know,
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this cultural conversation about top model now?
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And it's because we all bingeed it in 2020
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through the lens of, you know, body positivity
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and believing women.
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And we all started kind of going, oh, wait,
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this is a lot more messed up than I remember it being.
11:15
But that is why this conversation for a show
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that hasn't been relevant in years is happening now.
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- Yeah, and it was interesting.
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I was definitely one of those people.
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Like I was like, oh, that used to be one of my favorite shows.
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- Me too.
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- I'm gonna watch that.
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And this documentary is really interesting
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because it ultimately has Tyra Banks on it,
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Ms. J, Mr. J, Nigel Barker,
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and then a lot of contestants on the show.
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I would say they definitely brought in, like,
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the most famous contestants that maybe you didn't win,
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not every person interviewed one,
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but were quite popular fan favorites.
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But there were some very notable people missing.
12:03
- I agree.
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- I wish the contestant was not interviewed for this.
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- Exactly.
12:07
I wish they would have had more of the winners interviewed on this.
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But I do think that they had an interesting array
12:15
of people on there.
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And having Tyra on there, which we can kind of,
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you know, dive into at some point in this episode
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and how that added to what kind of truth was told
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or lack there of--
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- Yeah, I think that it is a really, really interesting look
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and what happened and just kind of how it evolved
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from something that had the best of intention.
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So, John and I watched this the night that it came out
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and we were really thinking about it.
12:48
And it, like, I think a lot of things,
12:51
and I think this happens with people who have an inability
12:54
to see that they are the villain or they've done bad things.
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It's something that started with such a positive idea
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and positive message, right?
13:05
Tyra used this and talks about this,
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but the reason that she started America's Next Stop Model
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is she was one of the few black models trying to make it.
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- She was the first black model to be featured on
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the cover of Sports Illustrated, yeah.
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- Okay. - So, yeah.
13:22
- And-- - She's definitely a pioneer of the time,
13:23
for sure.
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- Yes, and Tyra faced quite a bit.
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She was curvy compared to a lot of other models
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at the time.
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- The heroine, she had the boobs.
13:36
- Yes, exactly.
13:37
And so, she was trying to come up as a black woman in this time
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and it was very like tokenism, right?
13:44
There could only be one.
13:46
We see that with Naomi Campbell and Tyra's famous feud,
13:49
but really Tyra used that experience and said,
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"One, I want to platform these girls
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and give them a chance to actually show beauty
14:00
to the modeling industry outside of what they see
14:04
is like the standard, a white railfin,
14:07
very tall blonde girl."
14:09
- Yeah, and she wanted to try to give them the tools
14:12
so they could learn while they were there,
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which is why they brought on Miss J
14:16
to teach them how to walk down the catwalk,
14:19
because I mean, you can have the look to be a model
14:21
and you can be gorgeous or unique or whatever,
14:23
but if you don't know how to pose your body
14:26
or how to walk with that model,
14:28
that smiles, then you're not gonna be successful.
14:31
So I think, especially in like season one,
14:33
she was trying to have diverse body types.
14:37
There was diverse sexuality and religions represented
14:40
varying degrees of success there,
14:44
but she was trying to teach them how to be a model,
14:47
how the behind the scenes kind of worked,
14:49
which is why that seat first season
14:51
is so interesting, it's so kind of down to her.
14:54
And you can tell that they threw together that set
14:58
like the back of a hotel, I think they said,
15:00
like the judges table.
15:02
And I really liked that first season.
15:05
I do think looking back on it now,
15:08
like the Ebony, right?
15:10
She was in the documentary.
15:13
She was an out lesbian and they definitely did not portray
15:16
her in a kind light.
15:18
For being a lesbian on the show.
15:20
- And she had a lot of impressions.
15:21
A lot of micro-aggressions.
15:24
Where she was too aggressive and she needed to calm it down.
15:27
- They definitely kind of made her into the, you know,
15:31
quote, angry black woman trope,
15:34
which she definitely was not.
15:36
Like if you see her in interviews and behind the scenes,
15:39
like this woman is so calm in the face of racism
15:42
and homophobia on this show,
15:44
but you know, that's the storyline
15:48
that they kind of wrote for her.
15:50
- Yeah, and, you know, I think that it is super interesting
15:55
like that first season and it just ultimately
15:59
like blows up, right?
16:01
It is a phenomenon just like America and Idol.
16:04
And you really see through this documentary,
16:08
they do an amazing job, I think, of telling the story.
16:12
And you, they start to go into season two, right?
16:15
They have more money than they've ever had before
16:19
in the budget.
16:20
They really can like turn up the volume
16:23
and they start to fall into ultimately this like producing,
16:28
creating, creating moments,
16:32
like they're just making it bigger
16:34
and they're trying to kind of capitalize on Miss J,
16:38
Mr. J and Tyra.
16:40
- Yeah, we learn a lot about their early friendships.
16:42
- Oh yeah, yeah.
16:43
And I think that Queer Eye was kind of coming out
16:45
and being popular at this time too.
16:47
And on America's next top model,
16:50
we have, you know, kind of like Mr. J called them
16:53
like the dynamic gay duo or something of Mr. J and Mr. J.
16:58
And I think they definitely kind of tokenized them
17:00
and played up on that like Sassy Gay trope
17:03
'cause it was performing well in reality television.
17:06
But I totally agree, they started every season
17:09
that you watch, you can see them losing the plot
17:12
and like, what is it jumping the shark?
17:14
Just a little bit more.
17:15
Like the photo shoots are getting more and more stupid,
17:19
honestly, like photos that you're never gonna see
17:22
in a fashion magazine or in an ad or an editorial.
17:27
And they started, yeah, kind of like choosing plot lines
17:30
for the girls and assigning them different characters
17:33
and they had a budget for them to leave the country
17:36
and start traveling towards the end of the season.
17:40
- Yep.
17:41
And they really saw like, okay, what did viewers say
17:45
there's like when in the first season
17:48
and then they got rid of kind of these other things.
17:51
So they were forcing, they were taking these
17:53
really shy, neat girls and turning them into
17:58
these super models or they were taking like
18:01
the traditionally pretty girl and cutting all of her hair off.
18:05
And you know, they were really just honestly,
18:09
like maybe not in season two, but they were starting to
18:13
learn how to psychologically torture these girls.
18:17
- Oh gosh, yeah.
18:18
They don't have bones, they can't go anywhere,
18:22
they don't have like access to their things.
18:25
So they truly are kind of stuck in,
18:27
I feel like it was like a Stanford prison experiment.
18:30
- Dude, literally.
18:31
And like I think something that I didn't realize
18:34
'cause I was watching this and I was the same age
18:37
as the girls, right?
18:39
Now as a 37 year old woman, I'm watching this
18:42
and I'm like these are babies.
18:44
The girls on this show are anywhere between like 18
18:47
and 24 years old, right?
18:50
Like they are so young, some of them are still living
18:53
with their parents or like just graduated high school
18:56
if at all, right?
18:57
They find Shandy, she's working at a Walgreens
19:01
and we will definitely hop into the Shandy situation
19:04
of it all.
19:05
But you know, these were girls who were out
19:08
in their own for the first time, who definitely
19:10
like didn't have the emotional regulation of,
19:15
you know, that they probably have now in their 30s
19:17
and 40s and 50s, like, you know, God, like,
19:21
I don't know what I would have been like
19:24
if I was on a reality TV show at 18, like I would have been
19:27
a jackass, right?
19:30
And I think I would have been a famous model right now.
19:33
- Yeah, and we're like, I can't believe she's crying.
19:36
Oh my God, I'll get over it.
19:38
I definitely would have cried
19:39
at some of them would have like shaved my head at 18, right?
19:43
Like, or dangled me over a hole and made me pose,
19:46
like, in a harness.
19:48
- No, I would have cried.
19:50
- Yeah, and I think one of, you know, like,
19:53
which I think I'll just get into Shandy, right?
19:57
I think she really was one of like those first characters
20:01
I ever remembered.
20:02
She had, I loved her.
20:04
- Crazy makeover.
20:05
- Yeah.
20:06
- Like, she, I would describe her before
20:09
she went there like very mousy, right?
20:11
Like very like, kind of wavy.
20:13
- Wavy, yeah.
20:14
- Wavy, she had dirty blonde hair, like,
20:16
and they give her this makeover
20:18
and she is just drafted gorgeous.
20:21
They get like her contacts.
20:23
Truly, Narni's montage makeover.
20:25
And she is a fan favorite.
20:27
Like, she's very shy, but she's amazing in front of a camera.
20:31
- She's a good model.
20:33
My goodness, that woman takes incredible pictures, right?
20:36
- Like, so good.
20:39
So they get in the budget, like I mentioned earlier,
20:42
to be able to travel.
20:44
And they start sending the girls on these things,
20:47
called go seas, where they make them go to,
20:50
travel to a different country,
20:52
and then go to a bunch of different little photos
20:54
for a studio's modeling agencies,
20:57
and try to sell themselves.
20:59
Try on different outfits, walk down the catwalk
21:01
for, you know, the people inside,
21:03
and see if they can book a show.
21:05
And in Shandy's season, show off their portfolios,
21:09
exactly, show off their photographs that they've taken,
21:12
something that, you know, real model would do.
21:15
In season two, Shandy season,
21:17
they ride on the back of Vespas to all of their go seas,
21:20
driven by some boys or men, I don't know.
21:24
These dudes, what are they in Milan, right?
21:27
- Yeah.
21:28
- Yes.
21:29
- And they, somebody mentions,
21:31
oh, I invited the boys from the Vespas back to the hotel
21:36
or wherever they're staying.
21:37
And they have some alcohol involved.
21:41
I doubt all of these women were old enough to drink,
21:44
but again, they're in a foreign country.
21:46
- But you're in reality. - But you're in reality.
21:47
Yeah, they're on a reality TV show
21:49
and drinks start flowing.
21:51
- And a hot tub.
21:54
- Yeah, you're in a hot tub.
21:55
You're a real thin.
21:57
We should throw that in there too.
21:59
I mean, the eating disorders were running rampant
22:01
on this show.
22:02
They said in the documentary,
22:03
these girls were surviving off of barely anything
22:07
right, which is why they all passed out all the time.
22:10
- Yes.
22:11
- We were like, that's totally normal.
22:14
In hindsight, I'm like, oh, everyone's getting really sick
22:17
and passing out a lot.
22:18
Well, fucking dog, girl.
22:21
Anyway, I digress.
22:23
- Yeah.
22:23
- Trigger warning here for sexual assault.
22:26
But Shandy, at the time, they framed it so,
22:31
oh my god, I remember this so vividly.
22:33
- That's right.
22:34
- Shandy had sex with a guy in the shower and in the bed.
22:38
She made out with a guy in the hot tub.
22:40
- And she cheated on her boyfriend.
22:42
- She cheated on her boyfriend, Eric.
22:44
And in the next episode, the title of the episode
22:48
was literally the girl who cheated.
22:51
And the whole episode is framed around, oh my god,
22:55
they filmed Shandy weeping and calling her boyfriend,
22:59
telling him that she cheated.
23:02
Or I'm sorry, that she quote,
23:03
did the worst possible thing that she could have done?
23:06
And then he says, you are sexy.
23:08
- Calls her a fucking slut, right?
23:11
She's weeping.
23:12
It's this totally invasive moment
23:16
that we should not be witness in.
23:18
- They're forced to go to the doctor
23:20
to get a check at the time.
23:22
- I mean, I do think that it has to be said
23:25
that this is very before me too.
23:28
This is like 2004.
23:30
I am women where I told, well, why'd you get that drunk?
23:35
Why were you dressed that way?
23:36
Like you should have known better.
23:38
And again, I'm like 13, you're 18.
23:42
Like you're consuming this and you're just saying it.
23:45
And you're like, oh my god, yeah, how could she do that?
23:48
- Of course she did.
23:49
- In my head, I'm like, Shandy cheated.
23:50
Shandy, oh my god.
23:52
How could she do that to her boyfriend?
23:54
- Yeah, oh how could she do that to her boyfriend?
23:58
- Well, Shandy's on this documentary.
24:01
She says that she remembers getting drunk.
24:06
- Getting in the water.
24:06
- And that's about it.
24:07
- And that's it.
24:08
- And that she remembers the act of a man on top of her
24:12
and was blacked out.
24:14
Like he absolutely took advantage of this young girl
24:19
and of drunk out of her mind, blacked out drunk
24:22
in a foreign country, right?
24:24
- And the producers filmed all of it.
24:27
- Yep, they filmed the shower.
24:29
They filmed the bed, like they made,
24:32
like ultimately like a sex tape of her.
24:35
- Yeah.
24:36
- And it's super interesting to think
24:38
what we would have actually been shown
24:41
because they talked about this in the documentary.
24:43
It was right around the time when Justin Timberlake
24:47
and Janet Jackson had the nipple slit moment.
24:50
So they were really clamping down on what you could
24:54
and couldn't show on these networks.
24:56
So they were like, oh well, you don't even know
24:59
how much of that we edited out.
25:01
And it's like you didn't do that
25:02
out of the goodness of your heart.
25:04
You did it because you were gonna get fined.
25:06
- If they could have shown the whole thing,
25:08
they absolutely would have shown the whole thing, 100%.
25:12
Like, and it's just, God, it's no one intervened.
25:17
And then they asked Tyra about it.
25:19
We haven't even gotten to this.
25:20
Tyra and this documentary in that fucking French coat.
25:26
- God, looking like she's ready to make a run for it
25:29
in any minute.
25:30
And they asked her, do you remember Shandy?
25:33
And she goes, "Mmm, um, um, Shandy."
25:37
- I remember her, but I remember her story.
25:42
- And she goes, "Mmm, let me pick my brain a little bit."
25:45
And she's like, "Well, I have to say,
25:47
I wasn't involved in the production."
25:49
So anything that had to do with production,
25:51
it wasn't me.
25:52
Meanwhile on the screen, it says, "Tyra Banks,
25:55
executive producer."
25:56
(laughs)
25:57
- Well, I'm actually spent the whole first episode
26:00
talking about the fact that she was so proud
26:04
to not have like a vanity credit.
26:06
- Yeah!
26:07
- Producing the show.
26:08
And it's like, "Baby, you can't have both.
26:10
Like you truly cannot.
26:11
You can't."
26:12
She's like, "I'm not involved in storyline."
26:15
And I think that there will get into all the crazy moments
26:20
that they talk about.
26:22
And just kind of like how each of our favorite reality stars
26:27
truly handled that, that confrontation.
26:32
(dramatic music)
26:35
- America's next stop on the documentary.
26:39
I will definitely say to watch it, it's very, very good.
26:43
I think that it's a balance and nuance.
26:46
Again, they don't have everyone.
26:48
They don't confront everything.
26:49
I think that some people got kid gloves in the
26:54
calling them out, but ultimately the show had a lot.
26:59
We talked, this is probably the most famous,
27:02
what the hell, Beaumann.
27:03
Oh my God, I know what you're gonna say.
27:05
The black face and race swapping photo shoots.
27:09
- They did?
27:10
It's Tyra Banks.
27:10
- Black face, you guys.
27:12
- Twice!
27:13
- Twice, three times.
27:15
- They did it three times.
27:16
- Cycle four, got milk, which is the race swap.
27:19
- So stupid.
27:20
- Cycle 13 is the mixed race shoot.
27:23
And then Cycle 17 is the Michael Jackson inspired shoot
27:28
involving racial transformations.
27:31
- Oh my God, racial transformations.
27:34
I love that's the nice way to say black face, you guys.
27:37
You know what?
27:38
I will say even while this came on TV,
27:41
I remember seeing that race swap episode in season four
27:44
and thinking it was really dumb.
27:47
Like now we're looking at it through like a,
27:50
this is really fucked up lens.
27:51
I was thinking about it at that point in my,
27:54
whatever age I was.
27:56
They're race swapping and they're dressing in like,
28:00
clothes from a different culture with milk moustaches.
28:04
And for some reason they have to hold a baby.
28:07
That's just a lot of layers on layers.
28:09
- Yeah.
28:10
- On layers, milk,
28:11
- It's so weird.
28:12
- Race swap baby.
28:13
And then that one poor girl who had like a stress condition
28:17
and she broke out in hives.
28:20
Do you remember that?
28:20
And they wouldn't let her hold a real baby.
28:23
So they she had to hold like a doll in all the other girls.
28:26
Like her baby, she's gonna like the fast because her baby
28:29
was the lightest.
28:30
- Yeah.
28:31
- Oh my God.
28:32
It was just a mess.
28:33
- Also like what the fuck got milk?
28:35
What the heck?
28:37
- Why didn't we do what that happened?
28:39
- Because the big dairy industry was so entrenched in like
28:44
the government and getting like subsidies in like
28:47
the early in the 90s and 2000s.
28:49
They wanted us all to drink milk so bad you guys.
28:52
I feel like Jinsy doesn't get like,
28:55
we be eating dinner and our parents would just give us
28:56
a big fucking glass of milk.
28:58
We like drink that milk for a strong like,
29:01
oh my God.
29:01
I could go on a milk rant for so long, but let's not.
29:04
(laughing)
29:05
- Me and Keith miss me.
29:07
- Me and Keith.
29:09
We mentioned it a little bit, but the makeovers
29:12
were everyone's favorite part.
29:14
And so they really, really, really, really turned the volume up
29:19
on those kind of every season.
29:22
We had you know, Danielle Evans, who's in the documentary
29:26
talking about the gap in her teeth.
29:29
I can't remember the other girls name,
29:30
but they took out like four, five of her teeth.
29:33
- Joni, there you go.
29:34
- Yeah.
29:35
- My took her teeth out.
29:36
Again, I made my boyfriend watch this with me
29:38
and he's like, what the fuck were you watching?
29:40
And I'm like, it was the show of my childhood.
29:43
What do you mean?
29:44
- I went off to Andrew about the teeth situation
29:48
because they have her fill in her gap.
29:52
Well, first she doesn't want you.
29:53
She goes to dentist, doesn't do it.
29:55
Comes back and Tyra's essentially like,
29:57
if you don't close that gap, you're going home.
30:00
So she agrees to close it a little bit.
30:03
She ends up winning.
30:04
Danielle Evans gorgeous.
30:05
She's on this show.
30:06
Oh my God, her face is better now.
30:08
Oh my God.
30:09
- She's like a sculpture.
30:10
Oh my God.
30:12
And then like three, four seasons later,
30:14
a girl shows up with a gap in her teeth.
30:17
Tyra has her wide in it to make the gap bigger
30:21
because it's more fashionable.
30:24
What?
30:25
- Yeah.
30:25
- Well, it's also like, oh yeah,
30:27
she's making a white girl do that too.
30:29
- She made the white girl make her teeth bigger.
30:31
Like, you know, she was okay to have her gap.
30:35
But, just mind boggling transformations here.
30:39
And like, you know what,
30:40
Jownie said that, you know,
30:41
she couldn't afford to have her teeth done.
30:43
So for her, like that was, you know,
30:45
she's like, yeah, let's go for it.
30:47
Let's do it.
30:48
But I mean, a rushed job like that
30:50
where she had to be in, you know,
30:52
surgery for what she say, like 12 hours.
30:55
Her mouth still doesn't align.
30:57
It was just for like,
30:58
quick aesthetic purposes.
31:00
And she didn't even win the show, right?
31:02
But, no.
31:04
Let's not do surgery's in, for, you know,
31:09
reality television.
31:10
- Yeah, and ultimately, I mean,
31:12
there are so many famous moments
31:14
like the "We Were All Routing For You"
31:17
with Tiffany Richardson.
31:19
The exploitation ultimately of just like,
31:22
people's trauma is a huge thing.
31:25
Like, one of the girls, her friend had died
31:30
the night before she had just found out.
31:32
And then the next day they made them do a photo shoot
31:36
in graves.
31:38
- Oh my god. - It's crazy.
31:39
- They have so many different paintings.
31:41
- Exactly.
31:42
And then Tyra would pretend like she didn't know, right?
31:45
She'd be like, someone died.
31:48
And you know, I'll say this for Mr. J too.
31:50
Like, he did own up to a lot of stuff
31:53
on the documentary, but still like, you know,
31:56
oh, I didn't know your friend died.
31:58
Yes, you did, you guys.
32:00
You sure fucking did.
32:03
- The way I put my hand, well,
32:04
the size of this is just in general.
32:06
It's so messed up again.
32:08
These women are like size four.
32:11
That is so skinny.
32:13
And if everything told their fat,
32:15
like, I just remember so many shoots
32:18
where it's like, you're pudgy.
32:19
Like, you should just stop eating like,
32:22
- Yes. - Really again,
32:24
like, we watched terrible about horrible.
32:27
- Yeah. - You know,
32:28
so watched them lose their, what they originally created it for.
32:33
It was to highlight different body types,
32:37
different races and all of those things.
32:39
And it just became what it didn't want to be.
32:43
- Mm-hmm.
32:44
100%. - 100%.
32:45
So, Kenya is on this show from season six.
32:50
She's gorgeous as well, by the way.
32:53
That can just be blank, except for all of these women.
32:55
They all look incredible.
32:57
Oh my God.
32:58
Kenya on the show had this storyline around her
33:01
that she was humongous.
33:03
(laughs)
33:04
This girl wasn't not.
33:06
- She's getting up in me.
33:08
- She was so thin.
33:10
And, you know, she had a normal, you know, midsection,
33:15
but they made it seem like she was, you know,
33:19
so big and needed to lose weight.
33:22
And they started playing into it more, right?
33:24
They would mention it during photo shoots.
33:26
They went to Africa and they all got kind of assigned
33:29
to different animals.
33:30
They assigned her the elephant.
33:33
- Yeah.
33:33
- So, at that point, she's like, okay, sure, yeah, elephant.
33:37
And tell her at the, you know, judging how much they had
33:40
to edit her midsection, how it wasn't okay.
33:42
She needs to make better choices and take the buns off
33:45
of her burgers.
33:46
They have a seven deadly sins shoot
33:49
and they make her be gluttony.
33:51
And at this point, she's like, okay, I see,
33:54
I see what the storyline is here for me.
33:56
They make her pose around a bunch of junk food
33:58
with like a donut.
34:00
And then they have the audacity to, in the judging,
34:02
be like, well, she looks pudgy.
34:04
You guys made her pose with like donuts in French fries.
34:08
(laughing)
34:09
- Like, yeah, they also put her in a very similar
34:12
to Shandie.
34:14
No, it's that bad, but they made her dance with the sky.
34:19
And she tried to set a boundary.
34:21
He was very much groping her.
34:24
It was not good.
34:25
And then the picture they choose is him grabbing her ass
34:28
essentially.
34:29
And there were just a lot of antics
34:33
that were happening.
34:35
I mean, I think that after the Shandie moment,
34:38
like you truly see the show start to go evil
34:41
in the volume, like just keeps going up and up and up.
34:44
And there's a moment.
34:46
I think that each judge really takes a different level
34:51
of accountability within the group, right?
34:54
I think that Miss J is like, whatever.
34:58
Like, I am who I am.
35:01
Like, it's fine.
35:02
Like, I think that Miss J is just like,
35:04
that's who I was supposed to be.
35:06
I was always the very sassy gay,
35:08
but like wasn't involved in producing at all.
35:11
- Miss J really wasn't, I don't think.
35:13
Because they were, you know, just kind of there
35:15
for like the runway shoot,
35:17
very like teaching them how to walk
35:19
and then the judging ultimately.
35:22
- Yeah.
35:22
- I totally agree.
35:23
They all took very different degrees of responsibility.
35:27
Miss J does take some responsibility for some poor decisions.
35:32
I think he could have done a little bit more.
35:34
Nigel also takes, you know, like accountability
35:38
for some poor decisions in photo shoots.
35:39
But like Nigel at the end of the day was the photographer, right?
35:43
- Nigel was the nice guy though.
35:46
So Nigel always got to play that person
35:50
in that pair of pants and straight gay.
35:52
- Yeah, yeah.
35:53
And so he was really kind of that person always.
35:57
- Yeah.
35:58
- But I think when you look at it, like, yeah,
36:00
you have Mr. J and Ty wrote probably the closest to it, right?
36:04
In the beginning, Mr. J made a lot of the photo shoots.
36:09
So the first couple of seasons,
36:11
he was responsible for those.
36:13
Eventually those got taken away from him.
36:16
And he really uses that to distance himself from it.
36:22
- He's like, I'm a personality.
36:24
I said it, but like I wasn't making those decisions.
36:27
I don't know how true that is at all, right?
36:31
Like you still had your Tyra's ear.
36:34
He says, like, oh, I couldn't give feedback to Tyra or Ken.
36:39
Ken Mock made a Marikasnex top model as well as Tyra.
36:43
But, you know, I think that they all kind of said,
36:47
well, it was Tyra and they famously had a falling out
36:51
with Tyra.
36:52
- Everybody pointed their fingers at each other.
36:55
I think, you know, I do give Mr. J some more grace
37:00
than Tyra Banks and all of this.
37:02
But I do think that he could have owned up a little more
37:05
and that he's not innocent and all of this, of course not.
37:09
Tyra Banks, yes.
37:10
So they have a famous falling out.
37:12
He wanted to quit the show on what, like, cycle 12.
37:16
And she convinced him to say for one more season,
37:18
he ended up staying for seven more seasons before Tyra,
37:23
according to her quote, the powers that be outside of my control,
37:28
made her fire Nigel, Mr. J and Ms. J.
37:32
In a very tacky unceremonious way, like,
37:35
they were gonna do like a very classy goodbye.
37:37
Oh, we wish them well.
37:38
And then someone supposedly leaked it to page six.
37:43
Mm-hmm.
37:44
And let's talk about Ms. J, like,
37:48
you know, the health situation.
37:50
I cried.
37:52
So yeah, I definitely got a little serious.
37:55
Yeah, so Ms. J, unfortunately, after the firing had a stroke
38:00
and was in the coma for cifluence, I think six months.
38:08
Yeah.
38:09
He was in a coma and ultimately, when he came out of the coma
38:13
after the stroke, was told that he would never walk
38:17
or talk again.
38:20
You see him talking in the documentary.
38:23
He's sitting the entire time in the documentary.
38:27
We do see that he is actually in a wheelchair
38:32
at the end of the documentary.
38:34
But, you know, I think that Ms. J was such a personality
38:39
and very successful after American Tracks Top Model.
38:44
He was quite famous within the fashion industry and beloved.
38:48
Yeah, I mean, he had a career before top model
38:50
as a runway coach, right?
38:52
And then, you know, got famous that way through top model.
38:55
But, yeah, I mean, Nigel Barker, Ms. J and Ms. J
38:58
all had successful careers or continue
39:00
to have successful careers post-top model.
39:02
So good for them.
39:05
Ms. J is asked if Tyra ever came and visited him
39:09
in the hotel or in the hospital.
39:12
Nope.
39:13
Not a single thing.
39:14
And that sassy look he gets to the camera like,
39:17
not yet.
39:19
Yeah.
39:20
Oh my god.
39:21
And then, well, she's asked like,
39:23
can we talk about what happened with you and Ms. J?
39:26
And she's like, nah, nah, let's not talk about it.
39:29
I should call him.
39:30
He's special guy.
39:32
And later, he's like, I gotta call me like.
39:35
Mm-hmm.
39:36
Yeah.
39:37
She's distancing herself.
39:40
Yeah.
39:40
She's distancing herself from all of this.
39:42
Yeah.
39:44
Yeah.
39:45
It's, you know, I think that, look, we
39:48
were-- if I do a retrospective on what the documentary did
39:55
and what the show itself did, I mean, I think
40:00
that it is quite easy to look at a piece of media that
40:05
is 23 years old and go, what the fuck was this?
40:08
You know?
40:09
[LAUGHTER]
40:10
I do think that the show started as a way--
40:18
like, I think it started with positive intent.
40:21
But ultimately, like, most reality TV,
40:24
like, it just becomes very dark when manipulating people
40:29
for storyline becomes that.
40:31
And I do think that Tyra ultimately
40:33
became kind of what she hated the most, right?
40:38
Yeah.
40:39
Literally, she's talking down to black women.
40:42
She's shaming people for their weight and their size.
40:45
They're choosing not the best photo for these girls all
40:48
of the time.
40:49
They're, you know, partnering or giving
40:51
a platform to sexual assault.
40:53
Like, I think at the end of the day, she became--
40:56
what is that Batman you either become the hero or live
41:00
along enough to--
41:01
Yeah.
41:02
It would become the villain.
41:04
Yeah.
41:04
And that's Tyra Banks.
41:05
She did mention it at the very end, cycle 25 coming after taking zero--
41:11
oh, you know, I take that back.
41:12
Her responsibility or accountability that she took was,
41:15
thank you for calling me out my shit.
41:18
I needed that.
41:19
I hope you all respond well, and someone calls you on your shit too,
41:24
because it's going to happen to you too.
41:26
By the way, cycle 25 coming.
41:28
[LAUGHS]
41:29
Yeah.
41:30
What?
41:31
What?
41:32
She was trying to get it.
41:33
No one wants to go.
41:34
Yes.
41:35
Yeah, you know, I think that overall, right, the show
41:41
did in 2003, made us have conversations.
41:47
And it made it--
41:49
I do you think that this is a very special type of, like,
41:53
well, I did a little bit better than the person before me.
41:56
And that's enough.
41:58
And I don't think it is enough.
42:01
I want to say that.
42:03
But yeah, I mean, I think that any reality TV is evil.
42:08
I don't think that Tyra herself is evil,
42:10
but I think that she holds that in her mind.
42:14
And that is why she is unable to do that.
42:17
I totally agree.
42:18
I think there's a certain type of narcissistic personality
42:21
like that that will not take accountability or apologize.
42:24
I mean, think of, like, Donald Trump, honestly.
42:29
That man will never apologize for anything
42:31
until the day he dies.
42:33
Like, I think it takes a lot of courage and, like,
42:36
responsibility to say, like, no, I messed up.
42:41
I totally own that.
42:42
That was really messed up.
42:43
And we should never have done that.
42:44
Which is what, like, Mr. J says on this show,
42:47
to an extent with some of the photo shoots.
42:50
And Tyra's never going to do that.
42:52
They do have a documentary coming out on E.
42:55
I dirty rotten scandals.
42:57
I think it's coming out sometime in March or April.
43:00
Tyra is not involved in this one.
43:02
She's not going to be on it.
43:04
They have other winners and outspoken contestants
43:08
who are going to be on it who talk about March 11
43:12
that comes out.
43:13
Other contestants who are going to talk about their experiences.
43:18
So I'll be interested to watch that one,
43:19
especially with no Tyra involved.
43:24
And just, I don't know, give me more of this behind the scenes
43:27
content.
43:28
Yeah, I think it's really, really interesting.
43:32
They're saying Janice Dickinson will be on that one.
43:38
That dirty rotten scandals is going to be by kind of a series.
43:41
So it's going to go over Dr. Phil and other things.
43:45
The prices right.
43:46
I didn't know the prices right had scandals.
43:48
I was shook when I watched the trailer.
43:50
I'm like, fuck, Parker, no.
43:52
God damn it.
43:53
Never trust a white man.
43:56
Not Bobbubby.
43:57
No, with Janice there, though, Janice Bitch,
44:01
you were so much of the problem.
44:04
She was so much of the problem.
44:05
She called these girls fat, ugly.
44:09
She was so demeaning to these women.
44:12
And now she's going to come out and be like, well, it was Tyra.
44:14
She better own up and be like, yeah, I was terrible person.
44:17
I'm sorry.
44:18
Otherwise, I'm going to be like, shut up, dude.
44:21
Shut up.
44:23
Yeah.
44:24
I think that one of the things that I heard,
44:27
I actually didn't verify this.
44:28
So I have no idea where they were talking about how Tyra was
44:33
a producer on this as well.
44:35
On Dirty Runt and Scandals?
44:37
No, on reality check.
44:39
I do think so.
44:41
And she-- I don't know.
44:43
I wonder if she thought that this was going to put her into a better light
44:47
than it did.
44:48
But like--
44:50
I mean, it's just the truth.
44:51
Like if she's saying her truth, and we're all going to watch and go,
44:54
OK, yeah, well, you suck.
44:56
And now you're showing us that it's true.
45:01
I don't know.
45:01
Yeah.
45:02
I think that she had really gone for it.
45:05
We'd be having a different conversation.
45:08
But ultimately, one of the early lines is, this is what you wanted.
45:13
And it is kind of interesting to think how far we've come.
45:19
We have many ways to go.
45:21
And there are things very wrong with the nerds society.
45:24
But looking back, wow, we've come along far away.
45:29
We've come along.
45:30
It is fun.
45:30
It is.
45:31
Yeah, that's true.
45:33
And hopefully in another 20 years, we'll look back and be like, wow,
45:37
we sure have come along way since 2026.
45:40
Like, either society can only move in that upward motion.
45:43
I just feel for these girls who went through this and had their self-esteem torn apart.
45:49
And all of us, young women, developing women, seeing other women being called fat
45:54
ugly and being torn apart.
45:56
And we're, you know, you're absorbing that into ourselves and, you know, feel for shout
46:02
out to Shandy for speaking your truth, dude.
46:04
She's so cool.
46:05
You follow her on social media.
46:07
She's this super like progressive artist who just loves cats and speaks her truth.
46:13
Yeah, I think it was a really interesting time in society because, like, again, we mentioned
46:21
reality TV was so new.
46:24
We didn't understand it.
46:25
We didn't really know how fake and performative, like a lot of these things are.
46:30
And I think about that right now with, like, TikTok, short form video content, and even, like,
46:38
and how and worked those 13-year-olds are right now.
46:43
And like, 100, they say real and they see so much.
46:47
You need this ozempic.
46:48
You need this.
46:49
Yeah, make a routine for a guy to like you and you need to buy all of these things and
46:54
all of these products, all of these microplastics on your face every single day.
46:58
And they think that, like, the images that they see are real people.
47:02
And like, A.I. is getting so good that it's starting to fool even, like, tech savvy people.
47:07
I saw a picture of Selena Gomez that was, like, I don't know, online today.
47:11
And people were ripping their body apart because she just looks like a normal person who
47:15
hasn't been pinched and stretched to the gods on social media.
47:19
Like, sucking in at that moment.
47:21
Yeah, because she's, you know, God forbid enjoying her day.
47:25
But yeah, it's, it's sad to see.
47:27
So hopefully we'll have a runnaissance with that that we can talk about at some point too.
47:31
Yeah.
47:32
Absolutely.
47:34
And so we're going to wrap this one up here.
47:38
Shana, where can our viewers find you?
47:42
You can find me, Shauna, on Instagram and threads @shaunatrinidad S-H-A-U-N-A-T-R-I-N-I-D-A-D.
47:52
Any find me, Olivia on Instagram and @livimariez L-I-V-I-M-A-R-I-E-Z.
48:00
And look us up online at our website, popculturejunkie.com.
48:04
You can find our podcast on all platforms, social media links, blog posts.
48:10
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48:12
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48:18
And join our Pop Culture Junkie Support Group.
48:23
All that and more, you can also check us out on Patreon and help us bring you more of the
48:29
pop culture that you love at patreon.com/popculturejunkiepodcast.
48:36
We get a sneak peek and a super special shout out from us and come back next week for another
48:42
hit of pop culture.
48:48
The Pop Culture Junkie podcast is produced by Jeff Markin and Cheryl Lightfoot for the Pop
48:53
Culture Entertainment Network.
48:54
[Music]
49:07
(bells chiming)