Latest / NO FILTER / Episode 18_ The Murder of Anne Margaret Lebensztejn aka The Bathtub Girls Murder(M4A_128K)

Transcript

Episode 18_ The Murder of Anne Margaret Lebensztejn aka The Bathtub Girls Murder(M4A_128K) · NO FILTER

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up you guys. My name is Andrea and
0:03
Speaker 1: I'm Haley and you're listening to in Human Okay, so
0:10
Speaker 1: I'm not laughing because this is just crazy. But so
0:12
Speaker 1: today I'm going to be covering the murder of Linda
0:15
Speaker 1: Anderson aka and Margaret Lebenstein aka the Bathtub Girls aka
0:25
Speaker 1: the Bathtub Murder. Have you heard of this?
0:27
Speaker 2: Okay, I've heard of it, but I can't really remember
0:31
Speaker 2: exactly what it's about.
0:32
Speaker 1: So I'm okay, so sorry it is. And if you're wondering, Andrea,
0:39
Speaker 1: why does this case have so many names? Well, for starters,
0:44
Speaker 1: this took place in Canada, and the police wanted to
0:46
Speaker 1: protect the identities of the murderers because they were quote
0:49
Speaker 1: unquote children at the time. The murderers or the victor murderers. Yes,
0:55
Speaker 1: oh my god, Okay, but their names were leaked and
1:00
Speaker 1: I'm actually going to be using their real names because
1:04
Speaker 1: it is what it is. Yeah, but there's like so
1:07
Speaker 1: many details of this case that are just crazy. Okay.
1:12
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I'm gonna just get right into it, okay.
1:15
Speaker 1: And actually, so funny story though, I was like trying
1:19
Speaker 1: to find because we had talked about doing a solved case,
1:21
Speaker 1: and I was like, I googled like the most epic
1:25
Speaker 1: solved cases of all time or something like that, and
1:28
Speaker 1: like this was like number nine on a out a
1:30
Speaker 1: ten list or whatever. So that's where I found this.
1:34
Speaker 1: I actually have never heard of it until I started diving.
1:38
Speaker 2: I know, I feel like I've like heard the name,
1:41
Speaker 2: but I don't think I've ever heard it on like
1:43
Speaker 2: a podcast or anything.
1:45
Speaker 1: I haven't, so yeah, I'm sure there's something out there,
1:49
Speaker 1: but I personally podcasts I listened to haven't heard it.
1:52
Speaker 1: So yeah. Okay. So Linda Anderson better known as Anne
1:58
Speaker 1: Margaret Levenstein or Lebenstein, not really sure, but I won't
2:03
Speaker 1: use her last name anymore. Okay. She was born in
2:07
Speaker 1: Poland in nineteen fifty nine, then eventually immigrated to Mississauga, Ontario, Canada.
2:15
Speaker 1: I believe that's how you pronounce it. I don't know
2:18
Speaker 1: anything about Canada, so I know very little. Like I
2:21
Speaker 1: know certain areas, but I don't know because they have
2:24
Speaker 1: like names and then names and then Canada, so it's like, right,
2:29
Speaker 1: an extra name that we have.
2:32
Speaker 2: The only thing I know about Canada is that they
2:36
Speaker 2: serve really good ice water. Because I was after it
2:40
Speaker 2: sounds weird, but I promise a little mini tangent because
2:44
Speaker 2: I have to tell you this.
2:46
Speaker 3: When I was in Italy. I don't know if I've ever.
2:48
Speaker 2: Told you the story about my crazy flight delay. No,
2:52
Speaker 2: when I went to Italy, so there was like a
2:54
Speaker 2: whole issue going over there where there was an emergence
2:57
Speaker 2: and medical emergency.
2:58
Speaker 1: We did and we had to turn around.
3:00
Speaker 2: So this was like for my study abroad, so my
3:02
Speaker 2: first time traveling internationally alone, and so we then I
3:05
Speaker 2: made it there. I was in Italy for a month,
3:07
Speaker 2: and then I was coming back and we were flying
3:09
Speaker 2: out of Rome and we were going Rome. I was
3:12
Speaker 2: going with my friend from Rome to Canada, and then
3:14
Speaker 2: from Canada she was going back to Chicago and I
3:16
Speaker 2: was going to LA And we get to the Rome airport.
3:19
Speaker 2: Whole roaming airport shuts down, Oh my gosh, shut down.
3:23
Speaker 2: There was like a fire in like a control room,
3:25
Speaker 2: whole thing shut down. Thankfully, my flight got out that day,
3:28
Speaker 2: but it got out too late, so we had to
3:30
Speaker 2: stay over in Canada. And all we wanted was ice
3:34
Speaker 2: water because in Europe they like don't do ice water,
3:38
Speaker 2: and that's all we wanted. So we like went to
3:40
Speaker 2: the hotel restaurant. We got burgers and ice water and
3:43
Speaker 2: it was the best thing ever. That's my That's the
3:45
Speaker 2: only thing I know about Canada.
3:47
Speaker 1: I like a good water. There's nothing like a good
3:49
Speaker 1: tasting water, because all water is not created equal, no agreed.
3:54
Speaker 1: So and Margaret, now living in Canada, met a man
3:58
Speaker 1: whose name is completely nowhere. Could not identify him, but
4:03
Speaker 1: most of the reports that I read called him mister Carubin,
4:08
Speaker 1: and that's literally, that's literally all we know about this guy.
4:11
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yes, so Canada does a really good job
4:15
Speaker 1: of keeping their record seal.
4:17
Speaker 3: I guess that doesn't surprise me. Canada has their shit together.
4:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do. So. They later went on to have
4:24
Speaker 1: two daughters, one in nineteen eighty seven named Caroline, and
4:27
Speaker 1: the following year they had a daughter named Catherine. So
4:30
Speaker 1: they were about a year apart. The family dynamics seemed
4:35
Speaker 1: to be pretty strained. Their father eventually left their family
4:40
Speaker 1: and had very little to do with the girls as
4:43
Speaker 1: they grew up, and Margaret, now being a single mother,
4:46
Speaker 1: became pretty depressed understandably, and she would often turn to
4:51
Speaker 1: alcohol to cope with her depression, which isn't the best
4:55
Speaker 1: thing to do. But you know, it happens, it does happen. Yeah.
5:00
Speaker 1: Of course, being a single mom comes with many challenges.
5:04
Speaker 1: One of the major ones for this family was financial stability,
5:08
Speaker 1: and Margaret actually had to work two jobs at one
5:11
Speaker 1: point time to provide for her family.
5:13
Speaker 2: I can't imagine on top of being a mom, now
5:16
Speaker 2: you're working two jobs.
5:17
Speaker 1: I know, and you have kids, like, I don't know
5:19
Speaker 1: how she did it all. Yeah, one of her jobs
5:23
Speaker 1: was a nurse, so she was a nurse and she
5:25
Speaker 1: did work long hours. When the girls wore ten and eleven,
5:29
Speaker 1: and Margaret actually met another man and had another child
5:33
Speaker 1: with him, and his name was Robert, So ten and eleven,
5:39
Speaker 1: they have a little brother, and it seems like the
5:44
Speaker 1: man did not stick around very long or at all.
5:49
Speaker 1: So again, she's a single mom now with three kids.
5:52
Speaker 1: And I know and Caroline and Catherine would have to
5:58
Speaker 1: step in and help mother Robert while their mother was working.
6:02
Speaker 1: And as they got older, especially when they started getting
6:05
Speaker 1: into their teen years, they began to grow very resentful
6:09
Speaker 1: of that. Oh interesting, okay, which I cannot relate to
6:15
Speaker 1: you because I was older when my sisters were born
6:17
Speaker 1: and I often helped take care of them, and I
6:20
Speaker 1: loved every minute of it. Like I would babysit them
6:23
Speaker 1: and like get up with them and feed them bottles
6:26
Speaker 1: and change their diaper and like all that stuff, and
6:29
Speaker 1: I like I loved it.
6:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:31
Speaker 1: Maybe that's just my nature and that's not their nature.
6:34
Speaker 1: I don't really know.
6:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I wonder too if like they were jealous,
6:39
Speaker 2: if he was getting more attention or something like that,
6:41
Speaker 2: like all of a sudden, there's this new baby in
6:43
Speaker 2: the family, and like you're ten and eleven, so you're
6:46
Speaker 2: kind of.
6:47
Speaker 1: In that weird day get more.
6:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe that played into it, But I think so.
6:53
Speaker 1: I think they had a lot of resentment, a lot
6:54
Speaker 1: of jealousy, and just overall did not care for the situation.
7:01
Speaker 1: It also like really irked me because they were so
7:03
Speaker 1: upset with their mother, but like what about their dad,
7:06
Speaker 1: Like he just walked out on them and like true
7:09
Speaker 1: had little to do with them, and they seemed to
7:11
Speaker 1: like take it all out on their mom, which was
7:13
Speaker 1: you know sad. You know, their mother's working her ass
7:16
Speaker 1: off trying to provide for her family. She loved her
7:18
Speaker 1: kids and wanted to provide the best life that she
7:21
Speaker 1: could for them, and you know. Unfortunately that meant she
7:24
Speaker 1: had to work ten, twelve, fourteen hour days sometimes right.
7:29
Speaker 1: Sources state that the girls often worried about their mother's drinking,
7:34
Speaker 1: and once they became teenagers, they actually did reach out
7:37
Speaker 1: for help from friends and family and their father, And
7:41
Speaker 1: there was a report where they reached out to like
7:44
Speaker 1: a family service, like people that help families get into
7:49
Speaker 1: like better situations. But it appears that no one breaks
7:53
Speaker 1: my heart. But it appears that no one would or
7:57
Speaker 1: could help them, so they just were kind of set
7:59
Speaker 1: in their circumstance chances. Other reports said that the girls
8:02
Speaker 1: also began to grow jealous of their friends because they
8:05
Speaker 1: got to wear nicer clothing, they had nice houses and
8:08
Speaker 1: pools in their yards, and they lived in a townhouse
8:12
Speaker 1: in a poorer section of town, which to me, like
8:15
Speaker 1: a townhouse is still pretty freaking nice, Like I live
8:18
Speaker 1: in a townhouse, and I mean, at least you're not
8:20
Speaker 1: living in like a trailer or an apartment or you
8:24
Speaker 1: know whatever. So these girls sounded like they were kind
8:27
Speaker 1: of spoiled and entitled even though they didn't have like
8:31
Speaker 1: nicer things. But I totally understand, like, you know, being
8:36
Speaker 1: envious of like what other people have, especially at that age,
8:39
Speaker 1: because that's just like kind of a natural thing that
8:42
Speaker 1: teens kind of have or whatever. But I also feel
8:45
Speaker 1: like that they didn't give their mother enough credit or
8:47
Speaker 1: compassion and just like really realized like what she actually
8:51
Speaker 1: did do for them so into their teen years. It
8:54
Speaker 1: was also reported that the girls would skip school, that
8:58
Speaker 1: they would smoke pot and part a lot, which I
9:02
Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't skip I did skip school a
9:05
Speaker 1: couple of times, but you know, I feel like that's
9:08
Speaker 1: like super uncommon for like kids to skip school sometimes
9:11
Speaker 1: and like parties sometimes. But I guess it was like
9:14
Speaker 1: a concerning amount of times, right well, And it depends
9:18
Speaker 1: it like depends on what their intention was. Like it
9:21
Speaker 1: seems like they're trying to rebel and like get their
9:23
Speaker 1: mother's attention and go against.
9:25
Speaker 2: Her and stuff. So yeah, if that's your intention, that's
9:28
Speaker 2: definitely not good. If you're just trying to have a
9:29
Speaker 2: good time, that's a different story exactly.
9:33
Speaker 1: And then there was another report which I only found
9:35
Speaker 1: it in one source, that said that the girls eventually
9:38
Speaker 1: quit school. So they're like fifteen sixteen and they quit school,
9:43
Speaker 1: which I don't know how true that is. But also
9:45
Speaker 1: if that is true, Like why not, why did you
9:48
Speaker 1: not get a job to like help out you know? Yeah, yeah,
9:51
Speaker 1: And I'm a firm believer to let kids be kids.
9:55
Speaker 1: But if you're as mature as everyone says you are,
9:58
Speaker 1: and you're as smart as everyone says you are, and
10:00
Speaker 1: you're not going to school, you should probably get a job.
10:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're not going to school in high school, you.
10:06
Speaker 2: Should do something with your life, Like if you're going
10:09
Speaker 2: to quit school, you got to do something exactly.
10:13
Speaker 1: So, co workers claimed that Anne Margaret was a kind person,
10:18
Speaker 1: she was a hard worker, and that she loved her kids,
10:22
Speaker 1: but after some time, her job as a nurse eventually
10:25
Speaker 1: caught on to her drinking issues and they had to
10:28
Speaker 1: let her go. Oh no, yeah, so Anne Margaret, now unemployed,
10:34
Speaker 1: just sunk deeper into her depression. It's sad, I know.
10:39
Speaker 1: There was reports also that she had another boyfriend and
10:41
Speaker 1: she was trying to like rope him in and get
10:44
Speaker 1: him to marry her, but he wasn't really interested. So
10:47
Speaker 1: I'm sure that that, like, you know, aided her depression
10:50
Speaker 1: even more. Right, Caroline, who was the oldest, had had
10:54
Speaker 1: enough with the way her life was going, and around
10:57
Speaker 1: this time she began to formulate a plan. Uh yeah,
11:03
Speaker 1: Now that she had this plan, she needed to convince
11:05
Speaker 1: her younger sister Catherine that she needed her help. The
11:10
Speaker 1: plan was that they needed to kill their mother. Yeah,
11:15
Speaker 1: oh my god, which like that's a jump escalated quickly. Yeah.
11:23
Speaker 1: So there was a life insurance policy for two hundred
11:26
Speaker 1: thousand dollars that Anne Margaret had taken out and put
11:31
Speaker 1: in her children's names, so they'd have to divide it,
11:33
Speaker 1: you know, equally between the three of them, and they
11:36
Speaker 1: would not be able to access it until they were
11:38
Speaker 1: eighteen years old. But Caroline says that that was not
11:45
Speaker 1: the motive. That the motive was to have, you know,
11:49
Speaker 1: more freedom and independence. And she also like one of
11:54
Speaker 1: the things that she said to convince her sister was
11:57
Speaker 1: that it was the best idea because their mother was
11:59
Speaker 1: slowly killed herself anyway, which like, okay, yes that's true,
12:03
Speaker 1: but like, you don't kill you something to help her exactly,
12:08
Speaker 1: like tell her to go to rehab, like threaten her
12:10
Speaker 1: and say like we're gonna do this. If you don't
12:12
Speaker 1: go to rehab, you don't get help.
12:13
Speaker 2: Or whatever, right, And yeah, I completely agree that it's
12:17
Speaker 2: not It wasn't the life insurance, Like I don't think
12:21
Speaker 2: that they that was why they were doing it.
12:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Caroline, now sixteen, worked hard to convince her
12:29
Speaker 1: sister Catherine, who was fifteen, that it was the best idea.
12:34
Speaker 1: Catherine was not so sure of this plan. She was
12:38
Speaker 1: not on board at first, but Caroline said that she
12:41
Speaker 1: was going to do this with or without her sister's help. Okay.
12:44
Speaker 1: Caroline would often daydream about her life after her mother's death.
12:48
Speaker 1: She imagined living in the townhouse with her sister and
12:50
Speaker 1: her brother, being able to have friends over anytime she wanted.
12:54
Speaker 1: They could move in and do whatever anytime they felt
12:57
Speaker 1: get ready. She daydreamed about taking the money from the
13:00
Speaker 1: insurance policy and traveling the world.
13:03
Speaker 2: So she's really like like living her expecting to be
13:08
Speaker 2: living her dream life of like pure freedom. It almost
13:10
Speaker 2: sounds like she's a sixty a typical teenager, but like
13:14
Speaker 2: a teenager that's like, oh, I don't want my parents
13:18
Speaker 2: to control me like whatever, which I mean, I totally
13:20
Speaker 2: get that.
13:21
Speaker 1: I was like that.
13:21
Speaker 2: And then add onto that the resentment she already had
13:25
Speaker 2: for her mom, and now her mom's like drinking and
13:27
Speaker 2: losing her job and all of that, and it seems
13:30
Speaker 2: like she's just like I'm just gonna get rid of
13:32
Speaker 2: my mom and then I can do whatever I want
13:34
Speaker 2: with my life. Yeah, which is like such an immature
13:37
Speaker 2: thing to think, because no, that's not reality.
13:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you're gonna get either putting foster care or
13:44
Speaker 1: some family members is going to take care of you.
13:46
Speaker 1: You're not going to just be able to live your
13:48
Speaker 1: life the way you want it. Right. So one of
13:52
Speaker 1: her dreams was when she turned eighteen to go to Amsterdam,
13:56
Speaker 1: which I guess she was like, you know, really into
13:59
Speaker 1: like the party scene and stuf because that's pretty much
14:00
Speaker 1: what you do.
14:03
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a really fun city, but it's also
14:05
Speaker 2: known for like that, especially weed.
14:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again, she wanted to make it clear that
14:12
Speaker 1: money was not the motive and that it would just
14:14
Speaker 1: be a perk. So Caroline did share the information or
14:21
Speaker 1: the you know, thought about killing her mother with a
14:23
Speaker 1: few of her friends, Jay and Ashley, but they didn't necessarily,
14:27
Speaker 1: you know, take Caroline that seriously, because I feel like,
14:30
Speaker 1: you know, you're a teenager, like I hate my mom.
14:33
Speaker 1: I could just I wish she was dead. Like I
14:35
Speaker 1: never said that, but you know, I've heard it. I've
14:37
Speaker 1: heard people say stuff similar to that, right. She also
14:41
Speaker 1: did not tell her boyfriend Donnie of her plan. He
14:44
Speaker 1: was kind of judgmental of her actions. He didn't like
14:48
Speaker 1: that she smoked weed, he didn't like that she partied interesting,
14:52
Speaker 1: so she felt like, you know, if she told him this,
14:54
Speaker 1: then he would like not be on board and not
14:56
Speaker 1: support her, which like good for him, But I just
15:00
Speaker 1: think it's funny that she like thinks of these things,
15:02
Speaker 1: you know, right. So finally, after some time, Caroline convinced
15:09
Speaker 1: her sister Catherine to help her kill their mother. So
15:13
Speaker 1: now we're going to fast forward to January of two
15:16
Speaker 1: thousand and three. Like I mentioned before, the girls were smart.
15:19
Speaker 1: They knew that they couldn't just kill their mother in
15:21
Speaker 1: an obvious fashion, so to ensure that they would get
15:26
Speaker 1: the insurance payout. They also knew, yeah, I know, it's
15:31
Speaker 1: like so calculated, right right.
15:34
Speaker 2: That that's like the definition of a sociopath exactly.
15:39
Speaker 1: They also knew that they needed to do this one
15:41
Speaker 1: of the weekends that their brother Robert was with his
15:44
Speaker 1: parents or his dad. So the girls came up with
15:48
Speaker 1: their plan to get their mother extremely intoxicated and have
15:53
Speaker 1: her quote unquote accidentally drown in the bathtub, looking as though,
15:59
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was unintentional. So everyone knew and
16:05
Speaker 1: Margaret or everyone that knew and Margaret knew that she
16:08
Speaker 1: was an alcoholic and that she had depression issues, and
16:13
Speaker 1: they figured that this would be a very believable accidental death.
16:16
Speaker 1: So their friend Jay actually agreed to be their alibi,
16:21
Speaker 1: and in a message on Aim, told Caroline that drowning
16:24
Speaker 1: was one of the worst ways to go. Oh yeah,
16:30
Speaker 1: so Catherine, she also had a boyfriend. His name was
16:34
Speaker 1: Justin and I guess he was in on it because
16:36
Speaker 1: he also agreed to cover for her by buying movie
16:40
Speaker 1: tickets and ripping them in half to make it appear
16:42
Speaker 1: as though they actually went to see the movie.
16:46
Speaker 3: This whole thing is so calculated.
16:48
Speaker 1: Like all these kids, Like I get it, you're like sixteen,
16:52
Speaker 1: Like you're living in fantasy land, like in theory, it
16:56
Speaker 1: sounds like fun and cool to like, you know, plan
16:59
Speaker 1: a murder, but like they're killing their mother. Yeah, like
17:04
Speaker 1: that is no yeah, evil, like pure evil. Yeah. So
17:09
Speaker 1: then the girls came up with their stories that they
17:12
Speaker 1: would tell the police, and they rehearsed them over and
17:15
Speaker 1: over again, and they actually like practiced trying to cry,
17:19
Speaker 1: which is again like sociopathic.
17:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, that literally is.
17:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:27
Speaker 3: No.
17:27
Speaker 1: So originally they had planned to kill their mother on
17:31
Speaker 1: January eleventh, but they decided that because there was a
17:35
Speaker 1: party the next day, they didn't want that to get
17:37
Speaker 1: in the way of it, so they pushed it back
17:42
Speaker 1: and decided to kill their mother on January eighteenth of
17:45
Speaker 1: two thousand and three.
17:47
Speaker 2: Excuse me, there was a party and you oh my god, there.
17:52
Speaker 1: Was a party. Yep, because they knew they're one of
17:55
Speaker 1: their friends said well, if you kill your mom on
17:58
Speaker 1: this day, and you're gonna be like tied up with
18:01
Speaker 1: the police the day of the party. So the girls
18:08
Speaker 1: acquired some Thailand all threes from Justin, which is Caroline's boyfriend,
18:15
Speaker 1: And if you didn't know talent, all threes have codine
18:18
Speaker 1: in them. That's what they Yeah, that's like the I've
18:21
Speaker 1: heard people like call that call it that, like you know,
18:24
Speaker 1: in the streets. I guess, like, man, I'm just kidding.
18:29
Speaker 1: That's really what they call it. That's what the that's
18:32
Speaker 1: what they call it, like the doctors call it. Not
18:34
Speaker 1: right is basically like stronger tailan al right, because coding
18:38
Speaker 1: is a controlled stup substance. So okay, it's like, what's
18:43
Speaker 1: the other one. It's like, uh, I can't think of
18:49
Speaker 1: the other one. But the other one is like ibuprofen
18:52
Speaker 1: and whatever, some oxy or something. Yeah, okay. So they
18:57
Speaker 1: acquired the talent all threes which I coding in them,
19:01
Speaker 1: and on the evening of January eighteenth, they sat down
19:05
Speaker 1: to have dinner with their mother and they started giving
19:08
Speaker 1: her vodka and lemonade mixed drinks. They also gave her
19:13
Speaker 1: several several glasses of wine, and by the end of dinner,
19:18
Speaker 1: their mother had consumed six talent all threes, which to me,
19:25
Speaker 1: that seems like a lethal dose and of itself.
19:28
Speaker 2: That like six within a within a short period of
19:31
Speaker 2: time and like an how definitely dangerous.
19:34
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And there was no reports as to exactly
19:38
Speaker 1: how they got them in her system, but I'm assuming
19:41
Speaker 1: that they crushed them up and put them in her
19:42
Speaker 1: drink because otherwise, like, she's probably not going to just
19:47
Speaker 1: take a pill that they gave her, you know, right.
19:51
Speaker 1: So she also went through a fifth of vodka, that's
19:55
Speaker 1: how much they gave her, which she was an alcoholic,
19:58
Speaker 1: like she was a you know, daily drinker of alcohol,
20:02
Speaker 1: so you know, drinking a lot, that might not have
20:06
Speaker 1: done it, but like that with the combination of telling
20:08
Speaker 1: all and codine like.
20:09
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, and you said she had wine too, and.
20:13
Speaker 1: She had several glasses of wine. Yes, so like that
20:16
Speaker 1: even more. Wow. Yeah. They then led her into the bathroom,
20:22
Speaker 1: undressed her, and guided her into the tub. And Margaret
20:28
Speaker 1: was barely conscious, right, and she was barely able to
20:31
Speaker 1: stand on her own. Then Caroline put latex gloves on
20:35
Speaker 1: as not to leave any fingerprints on her mother's body,
20:38
Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of weird because I was like,
20:40
Speaker 1: why did she do that? But I guess, like fingerprints
20:42
Speaker 1: on your head, she would have to hold her, you know,
20:45
Speaker 1: maybe they would be able to tell something that's going on.
20:48
Speaker 3: She's literally thought of everything.
20:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she didn't fight back. She was completely you know,
21:00
Speaker 1: she was barely conscious. She wasn't completely unconscious, but she
21:02
Speaker 1: like didn't fight back. But Caroline thought, Okay, it would
21:06
Speaker 1: be easier if I rolled her over to her stomach.
21:10
Speaker 1: So she then proceeded to roll her mother on her
21:13
Speaker 1: stomach and then pushed her head under the water and
21:16
Speaker 1: held it down for four minutes.
21:18
Speaker 3: Does it even take that long to drown?
21:20
Speaker 1: Someone told her that someone said it takes four minutes
21:23
Speaker 1: for someone to drown. But I don't know, I have
21:27
Speaker 1: no idea. Okay, I think it's different for different people
21:29
Speaker 1: because obviously, like you're I don't know, I don't really
21:32
Speaker 1: like hold your breath for a certain amount of time. Yeah,
21:36
Speaker 1: but she's like so drunk she wouldn't you know, she
21:39
Speaker 1: would just be like breathing probably right, right. But also
21:43
Speaker 1: think like even if you're that intox kid and someone's
21:46
Speaker 1: holding your head under the water, woulden you're like adrenaline
21:50
Speaker 1: kick in and like the fight or flight. But I
21:52
Speaker 1: guess she was just like so far gone.
21:55
Speaker 2: She was so out of it with the tailenol and
21:58
Speaker 2: the all the alcohol.
22:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, so at this point now and Margaret is deceased.
22:05
Speaker 1: The girls then took their mom's debit card and left
22:07
Speaker 1: the house. They met up with their friend Ashley at
22:10
Speaker 1: the bus stop, and the three girls hopped on the bus.
22:13
Speaker 1: At seven pm. They all went to a restaurant called Jackasters,
22:18
Speaker 1: which is like a local chain. I don't know. I
22:21
Speaker 1: guess this is a Canadian thing, I don't know, which
22:26
Speaker 1: is where they had planned to be that night as
22:29
Speaker 1: part of their alibi. So all their friends were going
22:31
Speaker 1: to meet them there, and calculated Caroline brought the latex
22:35
Speaker 1: gloves with her and disposed of them at the restaurant.
22:38
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. Friends actually reported though that Caroline
22:44
Speaker 1: was surprisingly upset at dinner, whereas Catherine, who was the
22:48
Speaker 1: younger sister who didn't do the murder. I mean, she
22:51
Speaker 1: was in on it, but she's like the one who
22:53
Speaker 1: actually held her mom's head down, seemed over the moon,
22:56
Speaker 1: happy and excited about what they did. So naturally, I
23:02
Speaker 1: guess naturally, all the friends wanted details as exactly what happened,
23:07
Speaker 1: and Caroline told them that it wasn't at all what
23:09
Speaker 1: she suspected. So at ten thirty pm, the girls returned
23:16
Speaker 1: to quote find their mother dead in the bathtub, and
23:20
Speaker 1: it was planned that Catherine would be the one to
23:22
Speaker 1: call nine one one, but she didn't think that she
23:26
Speaker 1: should that she could cry on cue, so Caroline ended
23:30
Speaker 1: up calling instead. So basically, Caroline did at all. I mean,
23:33
Speaker 1: her sister is like taking the whatever, but she's the
23:37
Speaker 1: one who ended up doing pretty much everything. Yeah, okay,
23:41
Speaker 1: So the dispatcher told Caroline to check for a pulse
23:45
Speaker 1: and she said, I don't want to touch her body.
23:48
Speaker 1: Which is like, I don't know, maybe I would feel
23:52
Speaker 1: the same way. But then the dispatcher told her to
23:55
Speaker 1: try to pull her mother out of the tub to
23:58
Speaker 1: perform CPR, and Caroline said that she didn't think she
24:02
Speaker 1: could physically get her out of the tub. Wow. Yeah,
24:08
Speaker 1: So within a few minutes, the Constable Horner I don't
24:12
Speaker 1: know why I said, the Constable Horner, but that's who
24:15
Speaker 1: what I wrote, arrived on scene. The girls told him
24:19
Speaker 1: that they had plans about to dinner with friends that night,
24:22
Speaker 1: and that their mother gave them her debit card to
24:24
Speaker 1: pay for dinner, and when they left that her mother
24:28
Speaker 1: or that their mother was already visibly intoxicated, and that
24:32
Speaker 1: she suffered from alcoholism and depression. That when they returned
24:38
Speaker 1: later that night, they found their mother and she was
24:42
Speaker 1: face down in the tub and was blue. So Constable
24:45
Speaker 1: Horner went into the bathroom and saw that Anne Margaret
24:48
Speaker 1: was face down. Her right arm was hanging over the
24:52
Speaker 1: side of the tub also, which this is like her
24:57
Speaker 1: head was closest to the fawcet, opposite of the of
25:02
Speaker 1: the side that you would think that your head would
25:03
Speaker 1: be on if you're laying in the tub. I don't
25:05
Speaker 1: know about you, but I lay with my feet at
25:06
Speaker 1: the fawcet, like, yeah, what why would you lay on
25:10
Speaker 1: like you can't even lay on that side?
25:14
Speaker 3: No, it seems like they thought about everything but that.
25:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would think that this would raise a
25:21
Speaker 1: huge red flag, but they seemed to not. They had
25:25
Speaker 1: a theory that she was sitting up initially and that
25:28
Speaker 1: when she passed out she fell forward. But even still,
25:31
Speaker 1: wouldn't she be like folded. Her body was just not
25:35
Speaker 1: and like flatten out, whip over. Yeah, and they couldn't
25:40
Speaker 1: go that that was just the theory, right, But but
25:43
Speaker 1: they did end up ruling her death an accident. There
25:47
Speaker 1: was no sign of struggle and nothing was obviously suspicious.
25:52
Speaker 1: So the police took the girls down to the police
25:53
Speaker 1: station for questioning and they recounted their story of the night.
25:58
Speaker 1: Their story of the night, as I mentioned before, they
26:02
Speaker 1: left for dinner with friends. Their mother was drunk when
26:04
Speaker 1: they left. They found her dead in the tub upon
26:06
Speaker 1: arrival and called nine one one. Catherine was calm and
26:09
Speaker 1: did not cry at all during her interview, which I
26:14
Speaker 1: don't know. People say stuff about that, but sometimes you
26:16
Speaker 1: don't know how you will react in those situations.
26:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, honestly, I've had things happen where I like
26:23
Speaker 2: don't cry where you'd think i'd cry, So yeah, I
26:27
Speaker 2: don't see anything wrong with that.
26:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Catherine, on the other hand, was still a bit upset,
26:33
Speaker 1: but she was much calmer than she was during the
26:35
Speaker 1: interview than she had been at the house. Evidently, at
26:38
Speaker 1: the house she was completely hysterical. So after an autopsy
26:42
Speaker 1: was performed, they officially ruled Margaret and Margaret's death as
26:48
Speaker 1: an accidental drowning due to excessive alcohol intake. Her blood
26:53
Speaker 1: alcohol level was point four one five, which my god,
27:00
Speaker 1: you did not know Here in the US the legal
27:02
Speaker 1: limit is point eight, So that is five times over
27:06
Speaker 1: the US legal limit. Wow, they actually said that, and
27:10
Speaker 1: of itself could have killed her, like she could have
27:14
Speaker 1: had heart failure or asphyxiation during her sleep, even being
27:19
Speaker 1: a you know, an alcoholic. But no other drug tests
27:25
Speaker 1: were ordered, so they never uncovered the fact that she
27:28
Speaker 1: had a high amount of codine in her system as well,
27:31
Speaker 1: which like, isn't that just part of it? Like would
27:34
Speaker 1: you not do that just as a I don't know safety,
27:38
Speaker 1: I mean.
27:39
Speaker 2: To see, even if you didn't expect or suspect that
27:42
Speaker 2: it was like a murder, just to like did she
27:45
Speaker 2: od on something? Like? Did she was there something else
27:48
Speaker 2: that contributed to it? Yeah, but I guess if they
27:51
Speaker 2: rule it an accident, it's kind of just like whatever,
27:54
Speaker 2: it's an accident.
27:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, it was reported that the girl's actions at
27:59
Speaker 1: their mother's funeral was less than ideal. They showed up
28:03
Speaker 1: with green and pink hair spiked up, and in clothing
28:07
Speaker 1: that would not be considered appropriate for funeral, which I
28:11
Speaker 1: have colored hair, you know, if that's a thing that's
28:14
Speaker 1: like you normally do, then okay, But like that was
28:18
Speaker 1: unusual for them because they did not have hair like
28:20
Speaker 1: that prior to all of them. Right.
28:22
Speaker 2: But and to be Devil's advocate, I mean, we know
28:25
Speaker 2: that they did it, but maybe they were like so
28:29
Speaker 2: distraught over their mother's death that like they were going
28:32
Speaker 2: crazy kind of thing. Like I could see that being
28:36
Speaker 2: a possibility, but it doesn't sound like that's how they
28:39
Speaker 2: tried to play it off.
28:40
Speaker 1: No, And there was also reports that they were seen
28:43
Speaker 1: laughing and joking with their friends right beside their mother's casket, which, again,
28:49
Speaker 1: playing Devil's advocate, like, I've been to my fair share
28:53
Speaker 1: of funerals and especially with like friends and stuff like
28:57
Speaker 1: family whatever, like you do find yourself laughing and trying
29:00
Speaker 1: to remember like good times, happier times, like funny things
29:03
Speaker 1: that person might have said or done. Right, But it
29:06
Speaker 1: was just like it was a red flag for people,
29:10
Speaker 1: and they were very disturbed by the girl's behavior.
29:13
Speaker 2: And I feel like you can tell when it's actually, like,
29:17
Speaker 2: you know, when it's just trying to lighten the moment,
29:21
Speaker 2: versus when it's.
29:21
Speaker 1: Just being rude and disrespectful, like exactly, very difference, right,
29:25
Speaker 1: And I even said, I was like, you know, sometimes
29:27
Speaker 1: people are so sad and you just kind of like
29:29
Speaker 1: go back and forth with like laugh cry laugh, cry, laugh, cry,
29:32
Speaker 1: just to get through it. But there was no crying.
29:35
Speaker 1: It was just laughing. That's fucked up, I know. So,
29:39
Speaker 1: being that the girls are minors, they had to stay
29:41
Speaker 1: with their aunt after their mother's death, but then their
29:44
Speaker 1: father moved into their townhouse, okay, so the girls could
29:50
Speaker 1: like come home, which I thought was super super odd,
29:53
Speaker 1: like why would they why would anyone allow them to
29:56
Speaker 1: move like move back into that house, you know, yeah,
30:00
Speaker 1: especially their father who's supposed to like have their best interests.
30:02
Speaker 1: But I mean evidently, you know, he's a piece of
30:04
Speaker 1: shit anyway, so we shouldn't expect too much from him.
30:08
Speaker 1: But it was reported that their father was very strict
30:11
Speaker 1: and would not let the girls like go out with
30:13
Speaker 1: friends and like do the things that they were used
30:15
Speaker 1: to doing. So this is totally backfired, well sort of,
30:19
Speaker 1: because it ended up like like not being ideal for them.
30:23
Speaker 1: So they ended up moving back in with their aunt,
30:25
Speaker 1: and she gave legal guardianship of the girls. Oh interesting,
30:31
Speaker 1: and she seemed to be a lot more relax with them,
30:36
Speaker 1: and she really like felt for them because they had
30:39
Speaker 1: lost their mother, so I'm sure that they like had
30:41
Speaker 1: her around their pinky. So their friends Ashley and Jay,
30:45
Speaker 1: which were like the main people I guess involved besides
30:49
Speaker 1: Justin who gave them the drugs. They were starting to
30:51
Speaker 1: get worried that if the girls got caught, they would
30:54
Speaker 1: also be charged as accessories to murder, which is like
30:57
Speaker 1: a very big possibility, and ash said at one point
31:01
Speaker 1: that she almost turned the girls in because she just
31:03
Speaker 1: didn't feel right about what happened, which, like my eyes,
31:08
Speaker 1: because you had ample opportunities to do the right thing
31:12
Speaker 1: and you did nothing. And also Caroline's boyfriend Donnie, if
31:18
Speaker 1: we remember the guy who like doesn't like her drinking
31:21
Speaker 1: and partying and all that. He began to grow suspicious
31:25
Speaker 1: of what really happened to Anne Margaret and was questioning
31:29
Speaker 1: her a lot, and eventually she did confess to him
31:32
Speaker 1: as well that she killed their mother. Oh okay, so
31:36
Speaker 1: now there's several people in their friend group that know
31:39
Speaker 1: what they really did. However, not one single one of
31:43
Speaker 1: them had the courage to stand up and admit to
31:45
Speaker 1: what really happened. Wow.
31:49
Speaker 2: I mean that doesn't surprise me because it feels like
31:50
Speaker 2: these girls are manipulative and like scary, so I'm sure
31:54
Speaker 2: that they like threaten them. But the only person that
31:57
Speaker 2: I'm surprised by is the boyfriend. Yeah, but then again,
32:02
Speaker 2: if he loved her and like, you know, wanted to
32:05
Speaker 2: be with her, he's not gonna say shit.
32:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. And I don't know if these people's
32:09
Speaker 1: names are the real names, but they're probably not. But
32:13
Speaker 1: that's what I got, That's what I got in my research.
32:16
Speaker 1: So now we're going to fast forward again to November
32:18
Speaker 1: of two thousand and three, so it's been what eleven
32:21
Speaker 1: months since their mother's death. Wow, Caroline has been drinking
32:27
Speaker 1: excessively doing more drugs, and her boyfriend, Donnie, fed up
32:32
Speaker 1: with it, has broken up with her, and she is
32:35
Speaker 1: essentially spiraling out of control exactly. She ended up getting
32:40
Speaker 1: back in touch with an old friend. And I'm assuming
32:44
Speaker 1: this person is someone that either she went to school
32:46
Speaker 1: with prior because they did move around a lot, but
32:50
Speaker 1: it was it was someone that knew her mom and
32:53
Speaker 1: her and her sister as well. But I think he
32:56
Speaker 1: was like their age and she hadn't spoken to or
32:58
Speaker 1: seen him in quite some time, and after talking to
33:01
Speaker 1: him on several occasions, she just blurted out one day
33:05
Speaker 1: that she and her sister were the one who killed
33:08
Speaker 1: their mother. Oh my god, which like a girl for him,
33:12
Speaker 1: like you are you shut out? You're gonna get caught.
33:15
Speaker 1: So finally someone was so disturbed by the information that
33:19
Speaker 1: they found out. He couldn't just sit back and do nothing.
33:23
Speaker 1: He actually reached out to his school guidance counselor and
33:26
Speaker 1: told them what he had learned. So this guidance counselor
33:31
Speaker 1: was not only a counselor for the school, but they
33:33
Speaker 1: were also a police officer. A I love it, and
33:38
Speaker 1: they convinced I'm gonna call him Brian just because like,
33:41
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have a name for him. They
33:44
Speaker 1: convinced Brian to help them catch the girls and have
33:49
Speaker 1: them confess to him again. Oh my gosh, yes, so
33:55
Speaker 1: love Brian gets wired up hidden you know, hidden wires
34:01
Speaker 1: all in his chest, like you know on the movies
34:03
Speaker 1: and stuff, and they put a hidden camera in his
34:06
Speaker 1: car and he arranged to hang out with Caroline in December.
34:10
Speaker 1: Then in January he did the same thing with Catherine.
34:14
Speaker 1: Both the girls fell for it, and they described in
34:17
Speaker 1: detail how they plotted and killed their mother and Margaret.
34:21
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, so in late January. So it
34:27
Speaker 1: has been a whole ass year since they came out.
34:30
Speaker 1: They got away with it for a freaking year. In
34:32
Speaker 1: late January of two thousand and four, both of the
34:35
Speaker 1: girls were arrested at their aunt's house. They also picked
34:39
Speaker 1: up Ashley, Jay, Justin, and Donnie for questioning. Oh my gosh, yes.
34:47
Speaker 1: Search warrants were executed at their aunt's home and at
34:50
Speaker 1: their school for their lockers, and back at the police department.
34:55
Speaker 1: Caroline confessed to the murder of her mother and claimed
34:57
Speaker 1: that Catherine had nothing to do with it until for
35:00
Speaker 1: the fact. Wow, yeah, she's the bigger sister. I get it.
35:04
Speaker 1: I would probably do that for mysel honestly. Yeah. Catherine
35:08
Speaker 1: refused to talk, however, and would not cooperate with police,
35:11
Speaker 1: and she asked for a lawyer. But luckily, in Canada,
35:15
Speaker 1: they do not have to stop the interrogation when the
35:19
Speaker 1: perpetrator asks for a lawyer. Yep. So they then showed
35:24
Speaker 1: Catherine footage from the hidden camera in her friend's car
35:27
Speaker 1: where she is confessing to what happened, but she still
35:32
Speaker 1: she still did not fess up. I wouldn't confess. She's
35:36
Speaker 1: kept her lip sealed. Wow. So once the investigation began,
35:42
Speaker 1: they of course found the online messages exchanged between the
35:45
Speaker 1: girls and their friends. They also found evidence in the
35:48
Speaker 1: history where the girls had looked up ways to kill
35:51
Speaker 1: their mother to make it look like an accident. Yeah,
35:55
Speaker 1: so they were smart, but they weren't that smart. Yeah.
35:58
Speaker 3: I just can't help, but because they deserve.
36:01
Speaker 1: This, I know, I know, I was like these little bitchons.
36:05
Speaker 1: And there was many hits on accidental drowning, so just
36:09
Speaker 1: like you know, one after another. In the history. They
36:14
Speaker 1: also found searches that contained you know, what happens when
36:18
Speaker 1: you mix talent all threes and alcohol or the effects
36:21
Speaker 1: of codine and alcohol. So in April two thousand and four,
36:25
Speaker 1: the girls were let out on bail. Jay was also
36:29
Speaker 1: arrested for conspiracy to commit murder but was let out
36:32
Speaker 1: on bail as well. Ashley, however, was not arrested or
36:37
Speaker 1: charged because she agreed to testify against the girls. Smart girl.
36:42
Speaker 1: Interesting Yeah. And then Justin was also charged with conspiracy
36:49
Speaker 1: to murder for the for the pills, the peals and
36:53
Speaker 1: knowing ahead of time that they were going to kill
36:54
Speaker 1: their mother, and he received eighteen months but only served four.
36:58
Speaker 1: So the girls try lasted eight weeks and in the
37:03
Speaker 1: Toronto Star reports stated that the girls loved all the
37:07
Speaker 1: attention they were receiving, shocking and that they were actually
37:12
Speaker 1: called laughing during the trial when the prosecution was covering
37:16
Speaker 1: the autopsy. Oh my god, like what litteral monsters. Yeah,
37:23
Speaker 1: they did not seem remorseful in the least. But luckily,
37:29
Speaker 1: in December of two thousand and five, both Caroline and
37:32
Speaker 1: Catherine were found guilty for the murder of their mother.
37:35
Speaker 1: Thank god now for the sentencing. Due to the Youth
37:39
Speaker 1: Criminal Justice Act in Canada, which protects violent youth offenders,
37:46
Speaker 1: to allow them quote unquote proroper rehabilitation. Caroline spent under
37:54
Speaker 1: five years in prison and Catherine spent just over five
37:58
Speaker 1: years in prison. And if you're wondering, Caroline was the
38:02
Speaker 1: one that confess she got less time. The reason why
38:06
Speaker 1: is because while she was in prison, Catherine, the younger sister,
38:10
Speaker 1: basically they were like, this girl is a sociopath and
38:13
Speaker 1: she needs longer for rehabilitation. Like she still let her out,
38:18
Speaker 1: but they still fucking let her out. Yes, oh my god. Yeah.
38:23
Speaker 1: So when Caroline was let free or set free whatever,
38:27
Speaker 1: she did go on to live in a halfway house
38:29
Speaker 1: and she later went on to study engineering. Catherine surprisingly
38:35
Speaker 1: went to law school and she is now married with
38:39
Speaker 1: two children. Excuse me, what, You killed your mother and
38:45
Speaker 1: you're just out doing the damn thing all a life. Yeah,
38:49
Speaker 1: oh my god, way to go Canada. And I'm skidding.
38:54
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it worked because they were rehabilitated,
38:57
Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean, especially with like how premeditated it
39:02
Speaker 2: was and how like I know they knew what they
39:06
Speaker 2: were doing.
39:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we think like our justice system is flawed.
39:10
Speaker 1: That to me is a major flaw. Like this our
39:13
Speaker 1: five years from murdering someone even as a child, Like,
39:17
Speaker 1: I mean, you would at least get what fifteen years
39:19
Speaker 1: probably here, I don't know, maybe not. They probably let
39:22
Speaker 1: you out in like seven or something.
39:24
Speaker 2: But still like that's yeah, wow, I can't believe they
39:29
Speaker 2: like live normal lives now, I.
39:31
Speaker 1: Know, I guess, like you know, I don't know. There's
39:36
Speaker 1: a lot of feelings when you have like a teenager
39:39
Speaker 1: that's like really against their mom, and like when you
39:42
Speaker 1: become an adult, you don't really you realize like maybe
39:45
Speaker 1: that's was really stupid. I mean, obviously killing your mom
39:47
Speaker 1: is really stupid.
39:48
Speaker 2: But yeah, well and it's like it's not like they
39:52
Speaker 2: were serial killers that were killing random people or something
39:54
Speaker 2: like it was a targeted.
39:57
Speaker 1: Like isolated incident hopefully.
39:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, but still that's just that's crazy to me.
40:04
Speaker 1: It yeah, it's crazy to me when I read that.
40:06
Speaker 1: Like there was an article I read and it was
40:08
Speaker 1: like the girl was like or whoever the author with
40:12
Speaker 1: the girl, I don't know. She was like did they serve,
40:16
Speaker 1: did they do their time? Yes? Should they be punished
40:19
Speaker 1: for life? No? And like all this stuff, And I
40:22
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, but they only spent five years in prison,
40:24
Speaker 1: Like how can you really even I don't know. Yeah,
40:27
Speaker 1: I mean, like you said, I guess they're fine. Now.
40:29
Speaker 1: So aside from that, there isn't much information about these
40:32
Speaker 1: two because Canada really does protect their records, especially in
40:36
Speaker 1: the case of miners in their country. But just to
40:40
Speaker 1: end on a silly note, I guess there is a
40:42
Speaker 1: lifetime type movie that covers this case, and there's also
40:46
Speaker 1: a couple of books. But evidently neither the books nor
40:50
Speaker 1: the movie depicts the crime as it actually happened, and
40:52
Speaker 1: they got a lot of flak for that. So when
40:55
Speaker 1: I was doing my research, I kept stumbling on like
40:58
Speaker 1: this crappy movie, this stupid book, and I was like, eh,
41:02
Speaker 1: we'll be using those sources.
41:05
Speaker 2: But it's so fun, like with all the information we
41:08
Speaker 2: have about the case, you really couldn't depict it properly.
41:11
Speaker 1: I know, so typical lifetime that is the case of
41:16
Speaker 1: Lynda Anderson aka and Margaret aka the Bathtub Girls aka
41:19
Speaker 1: the Bathtub Murder.
41:21
Speaker 3: So that's insane.
41:23
Speaker 1: I would never heard that. I wow, Yeah, it is insane.
41:28
Speaker 1: It was like, it's one of the craziest cases that
41:31
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. Like even though it's not like I mean,
41:34
Speaker 1: there is a lot of details. It's not like you know,
41:36
Speaker 1: a super long detailed case or anything, but the details
41:39
Speaker 1: are just so crazy. It's like a whole rollercoaster. Yeah,
41:44
Speaker 1: and it's what is it called, like matrix side matro side,
41:47
Speaker 1: I think is what it is like. So yeah, I
41:51
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I learned a new word today for
41:52
Speaker 1: some reason. I didn't know that, Like I know a
41:54
Speaker 1: lot of the other sides when it comes to like murdering,
41:57
Speaker 1: but I had got one strange. But I will try
42:01
Speaker 1: to find pictures. There is pictures of a Margaret and
42:05
Speaker 1: Caroline and Catherinees. I'll definitely post those on the Instagram.
42:10
Speaker 1: And that's at in Human Underscore podcast, and then we'll
42:14
Speaker 1: probably post some tiktoks from our cases this week at
42:17
Speaker 1: some point, which is in Human podcast on TikTok, And
42:22
Speaker 1: we have a Facebook group now which is also in
42:25
Speaker 1: Human podcast, So go over there and give us a look.
42:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we can discuss cases over there.
42:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
42:33
Speaker 3: But this I feel like this story will make for
42:36
Speaker 3: a good TikTok.
42:37
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, I think it will too. Thank you
42:40
Speaker 1: guys so much for listening and keep it human. Bye
42:46
Speaker 1: bye