Latest / Drawn of History / Joe Rogan Experience _2428 - Michael P. Masters(M4A_128K)

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience _2428 - Michael P. Masters(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: by night, all day. Yeah.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Disclosure day. Very interesting.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited for that.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was always, like, way ahead of the curve
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: when it comes to the whole UAP UFO stuff. You know,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: with Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he had that French...
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: scientist that was essentially modeled after Jacques Vallée. He's always been,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I would love to talk to him. I wonder how
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: much he knows.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Is that an accident? Was he fed some information? Was
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: he a part of disclosure the whole time? That's what
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I've always wondered. I mean, what does that mean, right?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Because there hasn't really been disclosure. No, but there has
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to be a slow process too, right?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: You think so?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think, I mean, the whole idea is that
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: they're just sort of, normalizing it, right? Neuro-linguistic programming, they
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: call it, where you're slowly getting people accustomed to these ideas.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Like the aspects of Close Encounters, for instance, where you
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: have the radiation burns on the guy's face. You have
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a time travel component where these World War II soldiers
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: get out of the craft with the little beans and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the bigger bean. I mean, just seeding our culture with
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: those little bits of information that might help later on
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: down the road. That was like in the 70s, wasn't it?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Like when was Close Encounters? Uh, yeah, I think it
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: was the seventies, late seventies, early eighties, maybe.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Uh, either way.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, like a lot of stuff he's done. Like I,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I rewatched the, what was it? Jeff Bridges, Starman. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot of elements of disclosure in that too. Like,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I think there's just, I don't know. I mean, obviously
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: we don't know who's pulling the strings. We don't know
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: what's going on. We don't know who's in charge, but
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it does make sense that if there is this thing
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that they know about that we're supposed to know about,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: leak it out do it slowly get in our culture
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: get it in our media in different ways you.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Know the Hal put off story right with George Bush
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: do you know the story where they were talking about
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: okay Hal talked about it on my podcast but he
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: also talked about it in the Age of Disclosure documentary
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: where they brought in him and a bunch of different
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: prominent thinkers.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah I watched that episode and I watched the doco so.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: To people that don't know I'll just explain it so
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: they brought in him and a bunch of other prominent
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: thinkers and they had They sat them down and said, essentially,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: we have recovered crashed UFOs. We have biological remains of
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: these creatures. We are considering releasing it to the public,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: and we want to make an assessment of what are
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the pros and what are the cons. So we want
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: to assign a numerical value that you're estimating what kind
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: of an impact it would be. On government, finances, religion, etc.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: About whether they should do it, basically.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Whether or not they should release this information. And all
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: of the people that were brought in came to the
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: agreement that there was more con than there were pro.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And that formed their decision to not release it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And didn't he say at first, like, he was... Pro disclosure,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: he was like, of course we should do this. And
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: then after the conversation, he switched teams.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe, perhaps.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I thought he said that he went into it thinking, well, yeah,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: obviously we should do this. And then sort of was
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: convinced otherwise after the conversation unfolded. Yeah.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: How could you be convinced? Like whose decision should it be?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: If some people know, everyone should know.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: It's a humanity decision. I don't think it should be
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: in anybody's hands to decide whether or not this information
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: gets distributed.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And the implications, too, if they have zero point energy,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: like how would that solve the problems that we face today?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: There's so many ramifications of it that. Yeah. Whose decision
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: is it and why has it been kept from us?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I don't buy that whole like Orson Welles 1938, everybody
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: would freak out bullshit. I don't think that's the case,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: at least not anymore. There's got to be something more
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: to it than that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: It would certainly have, I don't know if they factor
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: this in, but a uniting element. Like you remember the
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Reagan speech where he came in front of the United
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Nations where he said, imagine how united we would be.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: We'd forget our differences if we were faced with an
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: alien threat from another world. I mean, just knowing that
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: we are all united. I mean, how old are you? 47. Okay,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: so you remember September 11th. One of the things that
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: happened after September 11th was there was, it was a
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: horrible tragedy, but there was a beautiful result temporarily where
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: everybody was really united, like really united. Like there was
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: American flags in everybody's car in Los Angeles. You know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: like the most ridiculous, progressive sort of kind of, you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: kind of fucked up place, but everybody became patriotic. And
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: in New York, everyone was friendly. I mean, people were
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: smiling and saying hi to each other on the streets.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: We had all decided that we were together and that
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: we were faced with a real threat and that we
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: had to be united.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And I remember it well. Yeah, you're right. And then
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: not to get too weird too fast here, but if
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: there are aspects of sort of an all encompassing consciousness
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that unites us associated with UFO phenomenon too, if we,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: recognize that we are just fingerprints on the same hand
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: we're all iterations of the same overarching consciousness if seemingly
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: there is a part of that in the ufo phenomenon
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: yeah so how would that unite us as well even
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: beyond the threat from outside like if we did start
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to understand that we're all part of the same sort
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: of cosmic community um sounds kind of weird to.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Say it does sound weird but have you seen the
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: apple shell pluribus No, it comes up a lot. Is
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: it worth watching? It's really good. It's really good. It's very,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: very original, very unique. But that is essentially what happens,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: and it has a negative aspect to it. There's a virus.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give away too much of it
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: for people that want to watch the show because it's
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a really good show. But there's a virus that they
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: get a signal from another world, and they figure out
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: what this signal is, and– Through this lab work, they
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: reveal that this signal is some sort of the encoding
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: of a specific virus. They work on this specific virus.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: It spreads, and the entire planet becomes one consciousness, except
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: for a small number of people.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: It's a weird show. It's a really good show. I'm
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: not going to explain any more of it like that
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: without any spoiler alerts, but it's fucking great. But it's strange.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: It's like, wouldn't that be better? There's no crime. There's
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: no this. There's no that. But then it reveals all
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the problems that come along with that.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm going to have to watch that as a counterpoint,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: if anything else, because it makes sense to me that
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: everyone's kind of united as one super organism of sorts.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: But you lose all individuality. You lose all the fun
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: parts about being an imperfect person.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Because we are an imperfect species, but that's also what
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: makes great art. That's what makes great music. That's what
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: makes great fun.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Most creative people have the most trauma in their past
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: from what I've seen.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: And if you have zero trauma, you probably have sucky art. Yeah.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: It's just stick figures and shit.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wonder why would be, I mean, if
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: they would even have a need for it. No. Because
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: it's an expression.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: It's getting your angry out.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Right. Or your angst or your anxiety or depression, whatever
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: it is. You're getting something out.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I was telling my son that the other day. Avi's
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: his name. He's It's hard being in these bodies, especially
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: going through puberty. You're just like, what is this thing
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I'm carrying, this little meat suit? And I was like, man,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I was the same way. I still am the same way.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: And I picked up instruments. I started painting. I learned
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: to play every sport I could physically play. There's ways
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to get that out. But it seems like a lot
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: of that does come from just the anxiety and the angst.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And, you know, you're growing into yourself. You're starting to
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: get the feels. You know, you look at women differently.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And it's like, what do I do with this?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Well, it rewires the entire way you view the world.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: And meanwhile, your body is physically changing and growing. You're like,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: what am I going to look like eventually? This is weird.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: It's so weird.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: You know, there's actually this, in a small island in
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the Pacific, they have this weird characteristic where they start
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: out as, Females, everybody does. We all start out as
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: females in utero. And then maleness is imposed on the
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: developing fetus. But they don't until puberty because they're not
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: sensitive to dihydrotestosterone, the precursor to testosterone. So they grow
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: up their entire life as girls. And then at puberty,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: they turn into a boy.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So they get raised as girls?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: They are girls.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: They're physically girls. But they have penises. Not yet. Nope. What?
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Is there a planet?
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: What is this? It's an island in the South Pacific.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: It's called pseudohermaphroditism.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: What? I know.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I learned about this in grad school.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: So what do they look like?
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: They look like girls.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: What?
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly like girls. They are girls. And then the ovaries
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: descend as testicles and the clitoris grows out into a penis.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So you think puberty is hard enough already. These people
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: turn into the opposite sex at age like 12 or 13.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: It's wild, man.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: So is this a bizarre genetic anomaly? Is this something
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: to do with the environment?
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of times on islands you get
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: like really strange characteristics of people because of the isolation.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And those characteristics get selected just through genetic drift alone
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: because it's a small population. So just probably one person
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: had this really weird trait where they're insensitive to dihydrotestosterone.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: And then it spread throughout more of the population. It
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't do anything. It's not something natural selection would select against.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: It's just weird as shit.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: What is the name of this island?
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the name of the island. But the
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: condition's called.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Find it?
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's Malo Island in Vanadu or something.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: How many people are on that island?
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: It says there's a population in 1979 of 2,300 people.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and think historically.
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: There's two different kinds of people there or something.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Two different kinds of people?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Two cultural groups. Isn't that wild, though, man? I remember
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: hearing about that in grad school at Ohio State, and
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I was just like, I'm sorry, what?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: That's so strange.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: What did you just say?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you've seen those people, the ostrich feet people
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: in Africa. Uh-uh. It's a very strange genetic anomaly where
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: they don't grow toes. They essentially have two very wide appendages.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Weird.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It looks like a weird bird foot. It's very strange.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: But a bunch of people in this particular tribe share
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: this trait.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Is there any advantage or it's just it's like this
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: where it just kind of happened and yeah.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know I don't know I mean I don't
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: know what advantage there would be maybe it's maybe it's
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: really sexy to them maybe you could move better with
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it I don't know that's what they look like whoa
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: yeah I.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Don't know how I haven't seen that.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: That's wild isn't that crazy I mean it is kind
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: of sexy if that's what you're into dog I wonder
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: how long that's been going on for Vadoma.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: See, that seems like more of like a defect that
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: just worked toward fixity in the population. Maybe not.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Well, it just makes you wonder, like, why don't we
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: it's in Zimbabwe, apparently. Why don't we all have that?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: You know, like, what is what is the reason why
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: we have all these toes that it's called electro dactyl? Yeah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That of electro dactyly.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, historically, prehistorically, evolutionarily, I should say, if you
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: did have something like that and you were a hunter-gatherer,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you're kind of boned. You're not going to be able
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: to run after a gazelle.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe you can. It's like it says
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: their feet are well adapted to the Zimbabwe Valley's rough terrain,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: allowing them to move quickly and efficiently through the landscape.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I take it back.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it kind of makes sense, right? Because what it's
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: saying is that their bones are fused. If you scroll up,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: it'll say, condition affecting ostrich-footed tribe, a genetic mutation passed
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: down through generations causes the bones in the feet to fuse,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: resulting in a claw-like structure with two large toes. Toes
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: are very vulnerable. I don't know if you've ever broken
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: a toe.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I broke one an hour before I got on the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: plane to come here.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: If you could see my left foot.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's hilarious.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. The whole thing is just purple.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're so small. Like my pinky toe, I was
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: messing around with my pinky toe the other day because
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I have to trim my toenails, right? And the pinky
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: toe is like barely a nail. It's so tiny. And
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, God, this little thing is so vulnerable and
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: it has to support my entire body weight or part
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: of my entire body weight.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're so dumb.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You can see that. Your foot's jacked. Yeah, dude.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: That was, like, right.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Before I was coming down. I'm like, you gotta be
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: kidding me. That sucks.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've broken a bunch of toes. It's very, very annoying.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: It's so annoying.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And you would imagine if you had two giant fucking
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: elbow bones down there instead of these bitchy-ass little toesies.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I know. Maybe that's why they did it. Maybe that's
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: what they got going on.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Kind of makes sense that that would be an adaptation.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Invincible feet. Yeah.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, we're so vulnerable. We're... That's one of
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: the weirder things. So first, we should get into what
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: you do, because you have a very interesting theory. Tell
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: everybody what your background is, first of all. Yeah, all right.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: That does seem like a good place to start. My
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: background is in anthropology, in biological anthropology. My research mostly
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: focuses on evolutionary anatomy, biomedicine. I've done some archaeology in
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: various places around the world, in Montana. But the reason
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I'm here, I assume, because according to my friend Matt,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: we were butchering a mule deer, I think, I shot.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I got to go to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: this conference. And I was like, do you want to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: know what it's about? He's like, nobody gives a shit
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: about what you do other than UFOs, man. I was like,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: damn it, he's right. Like I did actually used to
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: do a lot of what I thought was cool stuff.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: But no, the main thing is that I've become known
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: for advocating for this idea that UFOs and the aliens
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: are actually our time-traveling future human descendants. I wouldn't even
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: say as opposed to extraterrestrials, because I do think that's
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a component too. I oftentimes get pigeonholed. People are like, oh,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you just think they're all time travelers. I don't. I
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: actually say this all the time, but it doesn't matter.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot going on. But my
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: background and the reason I approach this question this way
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: is because there's a lot of characteristics of these aliens
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: that look so hominin. They look just like us. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: specifically what we'd expect to see in our hominin future
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: if the same evolutionary trends continue into the future. So
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I kind of just tie those things together. And even
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the saucer-shaped craft seemingly are time machines themselves. So that's
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: kind of the Cliff Notes version.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a theory that a lot of people have
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: independently sort of come to, right?
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially recently.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: And the concept of– just think about ancient man. I
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: was watching this documentary on Neanderthals last night about this
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: one intact Neanderthal skeleton that they found that was– it
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: had sort of been– he had died in a cave
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and you know, there's stalagmites, stalactites were mites. How do
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: you say it?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Tites are up, mites are down.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: So he was essentially mineralized. There was stuff all over
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the body and it took a long time for them
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to break this body.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I think I saw that. Was that on Netflix?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: No, I was watching it on YouTube. Maybe originally it
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: was on Netflix, but it was just documenting how strange this,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: this body was that they had found, but it was,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: immensely strong, like much stronger than us. One of the
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: interesting things was that their visual cortex, the part of
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the brain that would process imagery was larger than ours,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: 10 to 20% larger. Yeah. And so these things probably
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: had better eyesight than us, perhaps even were able to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: see at night, and that this was a bigger, stronger
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: version of a human being, like much more durable than
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: what we are, modern 2025 Homo sapiens.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: If you just look, yeah, that's it. So that's one
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: That's cool.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Neither human nor Neanderthal.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, really? This is a published. Is this the same?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: This might not be the same one. This is maybe
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: a different one. That's a weird one because what's that
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: fucking thing on its head?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: That's what it says.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: It's a stalactite growing out of it or something.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Wow. In a weird form. Weird.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a unicorn.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like a crest.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: They do have a sagittal ridge.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Homo erectus had one. There's an offshoot in our hominin
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: lineage called the Paranthropus, or robust Australopithecines, and they had
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: a full-on, like, gorilla-style sagittal ridge. Yeah, because they were vegetarians,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: so they just chewed all day.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Right, so they had massive muscles to chew.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, their whole face is huge. Wow. Neanderthals kind of,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, they were just big. It's just a robusticity thing,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: but there is evidence from Shanidar Cave in Iraq where
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: they were using their teeth as tools we think they
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: were like tanning hides they were holding the hide in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: their mouth and then like scraping all the nasty bits
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: oh and you can see that in the tooth wear
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: so yeah they were they were pretty badass they were
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the first i don't know i think this is cool
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: but a lot of people think i'm a nerd too
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: um they were the first to to use the flake
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: like for 2.8 million years we just hit a piece
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of rock and like oh this cool tool but then
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: They figured out that if you hit the rock in
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: just the right way, the piece that falls off makes
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: an even better tool. So it goes like 2.5. Yes, exactly.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: You make a narrowhead.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And from that point on, I got to work at
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a place called Chez Pinot Jean-Zac in southern France for
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: a summer. And it was a Neanderthal site. And we
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: found these. Actually, it's pretty funny because when we first
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: got there, these tools called MTA hand axes, Mousterian, it
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: was Shulian tradition hand axes. And there were only eight
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: found in all of Europe. And they said, if you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: guys find one of these, we'll buy you all the
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: beer and all the cognac you can drink. So we're
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: in the cognac region of France. And we found one
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: like the fourth or fifth day. We went on to
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: find seven more over the course of that week. We
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: doubled the number of these things in existence in all
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of Europe.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They were not lying. They bought us so many damn beers.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Archaeologists like to drink. We dig and it's boring as hell.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: It's not Indiana Jones. We're not running around banging hot
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: chicks and flying on planes. We're like, we got a
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: spoon and we're doing this for eight hours. I actually
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: found the last one on the last day and it
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: was by far the worst one. I had to argue
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that this should even count as one of these. But yeah, no,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: it was a cool site. So yeah, they were doing well,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: but we were doing better. We came in and replaced them.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Well, something happened where we replaced them. This is an
• 19:07
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• 19:09
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• 20:22
  Speaker 2: slash J-R-E. The point is, as time goes on, Humans
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: today are probably the most feeble version of humans that
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: have ever existed for sure And we're we're the most
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: feeble versions of people that have existed within the last century, right?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Like if you go back to humans from the 1920s
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: versus humans from the 2020s People have way less testosterone
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: now way or higher instances of miscarriages way lower sperm
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: count you know, there's a lot of factors that are
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: at play right now that are changing what a human
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: is and And if you extrapolate, if you look at
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the future, you would naturally say, well, we're probably going
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: to be very thin. It seems like there's at least
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: some sort of a push to eliminate gender. Like gender
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: seems like it's on the table as whether or not
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: it's even necessary. There's all sorts of new technological innovations
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: that are leading to the possibility, at least sometime in
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the future of an artificial womb, um, there's genetic engineering
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: with CRISPR and a lot of other different technologies that
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: are being explored that we might be able to engineer
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: human beings and then even create a complete individual human
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: being without a mother, without a father. So if you
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: thought about what that looks like in the future, like
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: one of our problems on this planet is we all
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: have Different ideologies, different religions come from different parts of
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: the world. We look different. And human beings as tribal
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: primates have a tendency to other. We other different tribes.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Those are not us. We are us.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Those are the enemy. You rally around it.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: But if everybody's exactly the same and we share one mind,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: you know, then a lot of our problems go away.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: If we no longer have to compete for resources, we
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: no longer have the desire to procreate and to acquire
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: land and... to have a territory, we eliminate a lot
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: of our issues. And that's what these things look like.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: When you look at the archetypal, these iconic sort of
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: shapes that have been on cave walls all the way
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: up to Close Encounters of the Third Kind, one thing
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: they share is that they have no muscle. They have
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: large heads. They have big eyes.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: And they're childlike. They're very pedomorphic, as we say. Yeah,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: you just tied together a lot of really important points
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: related to this theory. Aspects of why they're always interested
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: in our gametes, why they come back and put that
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: little machine on a man to collect semen, why they're
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: constantly taking eggs from females and implanting fetuses, pulling them
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: back out later. They're clearly focused on reproduction, gamete extraction,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: and One of the things that might be fueling that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in the future, if these are future humans, let's just
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: assume for a second hypothetically, is that they might be
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: having problems directly resulting from these trends toward self-domestication, these
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: trends toward feminization, these trends toward reduced sperm counts, which
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: is 60% across most populations of the world in the
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: industrialized world, 50% across the entire world. Um, yeah, problems
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: with reproduction, uh, in vitro fertilization, exogenesis chambers might help
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: solve some of those problems, growing the fetus outside of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the body.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: So, so yeah.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And like you said, you know, what do they look like?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: They look like kind of a hybrid between males and
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: females to some extent, but there's still an essence of gender.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Like if you talk to Whitley Strieber, you know, he's
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: with this bean, he says in communion that I had
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: a sense that she was a woman. I don't know why.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: But I kind of sensed that. So it's almost like
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the essence of the individual, the soul of the individual
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: still retains that sort of gender identity, even though our
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: bodies are becoming more childlike, more gender indiscriminate. I don't know.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yet another one of those ways in which
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: we might sort of grow together as a species.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Now, when you say they are extracting sperm, how many
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: of these stories do you.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Take seriously? There's a lot of these stories.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: It's a great question.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, for any sort of spectacular public thing that's in
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the zeitgeist, like alien abduction, whether it's Whitley Strieber from
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Communion or the John Mack books, the guy from Harvard
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: that wrote, what was it, Abduction?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Passport to the Cosmos and Abduction. Yeah. Two great books.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Great books. But These are all books about encounters, close
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: encounters of the third kind with some sort of a
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: being from another place. Whatever it is, it's just not
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: a human being, and it seems to be technologically at
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: least superior to us. It seems to be one thing
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: they all seem to share is they seem to be
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: able to communicate telekinetically or telepathically.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean they aren't human, but they are
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: very human too. So, for instance, like that's one of
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the main reasons I started exploring this. I was actually
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: kind of put into this when I was eight or
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: nine years old, sort of activated in a way and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: put on this path by a weird thing that happened
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to me. What happened to you? Well, so I talk
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: about it in my first two books, Identified Flying Objects
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and the Extra-Tempestual Model, where I learned about a close
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: encounter that my dad had. He was a veterinarian in
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: northeast Ohio where I grew up. And he was out
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: one night on a call with another guy. So there's
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: two people as far as Jalen Hynek's reliability scale has
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: more reliability because there's multiple witnesses. It's also strange on
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: his scale because they crested the hill. There's a bright light.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: This is an Amish country. There's no lights in Amish country.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden this bright light darts toward him,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: hovers just above their truck, darts back to where it
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: was and straight up into space. Like at incredible speed.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: So this happened before I was born, but I overheard
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: him telling a story to some friends one night. He
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: got Whitley Strieber's book, Communion, as most people did in
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: the 1980s, and as they should, because it's a great book.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And I walked into the living room. The book is
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: sitting on the shelf facing out. And I remember like
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: it was yesterday, I sort of stopped and there was
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: like this light, like a white light. And then I
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: saw this image in my mind of like, an early
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: hominid chimpanzee-like creature, a modern human, and then that archetypal
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: gray alien from the cover with this information, what if
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: they're related? What if they are us from the future?
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: And obviously, I mean, that's why I became a biological anthropologist.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: People are always like, so.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You saw this?
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: It was like a flash, like a light. And, you know,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it's weird looking back on it because I know a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: lot more about these experiences. I've talked to people that
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: have had these types of experiences.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: What was the setting?
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: It was our living room. So it was like the,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: you come in the front door and just to the left,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: there's this living room, built-in bookshelf, Willie's books right there.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I just turned the corner, saw it, and then like,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: just kind of, it just came. Like, I didn't know
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: shit about evolutionary biology.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: When you say you saw it, you saw it how?
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: In my mind. Just this white light.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Just an image.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And there was that image of the three faces. And
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: then the question, could they be us from the future?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people are like, how did you
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: get into UFOs? Like, you're a biological anthropologist. It's the opposite.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I got into biological anthropology to research this question of
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: whether they could be us from the future.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Huh. So you felt like at that moment it wasn't
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: just like a weird thought or a dream. It felt
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: like a message? Like, what did it feel like? Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a tasking. You know, I think Rupert
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Sheldrake said it, that people don't have ideas. Ideas have people.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I think that was like the, hey, go do this thing.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And I did. That's why we're here now, talking about it.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, you got to be careful about
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: like selection bias and confirmation bias. Like I didn't go
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: into this. I didn't go into grad school. I also
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: didn't tell anybody in grad school I was there because
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: they would have kicked me out. But I went into
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: it with an open mind, but I was there to
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: study these things because of that event when I was
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: eight years old.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, it is a problem, the confirmation bias. It
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: is a problem with wanting it to be real. And
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I struggle with that because I desperately want it to
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: be real. And so every time I talk to someone,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I've talked to a bunch of people that are,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: you know, air quote whistleblowers. And some of them, I think,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: for sure, have been sent in here to distribute disinformation.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: For sure, because it's a great place to do it. Yeah.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I'll listen to you. I'll entertain almost anything.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Which is great. We need that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, I mean, obviously there's people that are going
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: to take advantage of it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: But I think it's also important for me to say
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I'm not convinced. You know, I don't know how much
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: of this is horseshit, but it's not zero.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: No. And that was your question is how do I
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: differentiate among these different cases? I do draw from Hynek's,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: in his book, The UFO Experience, he lists out how
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: we all should approach this based on the reliability scale
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and the strangeness scale. Jacques Vallée also drew from that,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: helped him develop it as part of the Invisible College
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: and all of his work. But Regardless of like my
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: own personal discernment, because my second book, The Extra-Tempestual Model,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: is about 30 case studies, 15 main case studies, but
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: then I pull in other ones. And it explores the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: different theories. Obviously, the main one being this extra-tempestual idea,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: this future, which, by the way, I saw the word
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: of the day. Today was anachronistic. And I was like, man,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: that would have been a way better word than extra-tempestual,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: which everybody struggles with. I could have called them anachronauts.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Ooh.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Doesn't that sound cool?
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: That does sound cool.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Anacronauts.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Ooh, that sounds really cool. I know.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: What the hell was I thinking, man?
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Anyway. You live, you learn.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: But so one of the most commonly reported things across
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: all cases, regardless of whether you think it's bullshit or
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: you think this definitely happened, is they really want our sperm.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: They really need or want our reproductive material, our gametes.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And it's funny because when I wrote my first book
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: in 20—I started in 2012, published it in 2019— right
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: at the end, I did an interview and someone was like,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: have you heard of Jim Penniston? I'm like, no, which
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: is kind of a failing on my behalf. I'll admit
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: that one. It turns out, so it was the Rendlesham
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Forest incident. He touched this craft. He got this binary
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: code and he, when deciphering the binary code, they legitimately
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: specifically said, we are you from the future. We're having
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: problems with reproduction. He underwent hypnotic regression. We're having problems
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: with reproduction and we need this genetic material to help ourselves.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people are like, well, why
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: are they coming back and doing stuff to us? I
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: think they're coming back and getting stuff from us because
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: of problems they're having, largely related to what you were
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts, the problem
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: with female infertility. What if we do try to create
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: the perfect human specimen or we try to cure these
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: genetic diseases through genetic manipulation CRISPR and we screw something up?
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: We might have to come back. We can't go to
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: another planet There aren't people on these planets. We can't
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: go and sample gametes from these other places. We might
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: have to go into our past to get those wild
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: type unmanipulated gametes in order to fix these problems.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: God, that's a crazy level of technological sophistication, the ability
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: to venture back in time and somehow or another not
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: fuck up the timeline that's leading to– I mean this
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Anything that you do, if you went back in time,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: any interactions, you would completely change how the future would
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: play out.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: In the many worlds interpretation. So that idea is unfortunately
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: very pervasive and mostly because of Back to the Future,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: which I think ruined the brains of most people.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Mine too.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Certainly in my generation. But what most physicists don't agree
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: on many things. But most agree that we live in
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: what's called a block universe, landscape time, block time, where
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: if you imagine all moments from the very beginning of
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the Big Bang to the end of the universe where
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: all matter disappears into like a black hole or contracts
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: or whatever it does, all moments are already there. They
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: exist as this massive four-dimensional block of all moments, all
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: world lines, everything. So you go back into the past
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: as you perceive it, You can do whatever you want.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: You can walk around, step on butterflies, slap people on
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: the face, kick over dinosaurs or whatever. I don't think
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: we can go back that far. But you could do
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: anything you want, and it doesn't change anything because you're
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: going back in the black universe and doing those things
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: you were always already going to do. And when you
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: get home, everything's the same because that was already their past.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: To everybody that stayed behind, that was already their past.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: It was only the future for you to go back
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and do those things that you were already going to do.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: And then you just went and did them, get home.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Everything's the same because you were always going to do
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: those things in the first place.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: That's bizarre. That's hard to swallow.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: If that is the actual model of the universe. And again,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I can only work in writing these books. I can
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: only work from what we know now. Clearly, there's a
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: lot of things we don't know. I'm not claiming to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: know anything beyond what we can know right now. But physicists,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: despite not knowing what time is, they know it's an
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: emergent phenomenon. There's something more fundamental that time comes from.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: But they do agree on this block universe model. And
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: in that case, there is no paradox.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: How do they all agree on that? Like, wouldn't you
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: have to test that and come up with some sort
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of a hypothesis and then try to prove it or
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: disprove it? You're right.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say they all agree because there is the
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics where if you went
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: back in that situation, it would be change. You would
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: be changing the timeline. Would it be changing your timeline
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: or would it be changing a different timeline is the question.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: And how would you know? There's more paradoxes with changing
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: things than not changing things.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Why do you confidently state that you don't think that
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: they can go back to the dinosaur age?
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Partly because three different reasons. One, I think they need
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: tremendously high speed in order to be able to go
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: back into the past. So basically, again, working from all
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I can work from in this time with the limited time.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: primitive primate knowledge that I have in the year 2012
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to 2025. I basically just started with Einstein's theory of relativity,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: which he published in 1905 on the electrodynamics of moving bodies.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: And then in 1915, he published his paper on general relativity.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: From that point on, almost instantly, there were solutions to
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: his field equations that showed what the right parameters of
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: a massively highly energetic rotating ring or sphere or disc,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: that you could create close-time light curves, that you could
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: actually orient light cones back toward the past so you
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: can physically go into the past. We saw this with
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Lenz and Thuring in like 1917 and 18. Kurt Godell.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Godell universe was not long after, I think the 20s maybe.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And then, importantly, in the 1970s, you had Frank Tipler,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: who showed mathematically that you can shrink that down to
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: a disk. He actually called it a disk. And that's
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons I think that these are time
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: machines is because it has all of the parameters described
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: by Frank Tipler. He wasn't talking about UFOs, but they
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: seemingly have the ability to jump in and out of time.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: They appear and disappear. And I'm talking too much, so
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I'll wrap this up in a second.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: You're definitely not talking too much.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we're here to talk, but I have
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: an internal trigger where I'm.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Like, shut up, masters. You're talking too much. Don't listen
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: to that trigger. Let it roll.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: So anyway, you know, if you look at the history
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: of how we understand backward time travel, what I think
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: they're doing is that I think they're combining general relativity
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: and special relativity. So I think they're orienting the light
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: cones toward the past by rotating these things really, really fast.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: You hear that all the time. They power up, they're spinning,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: or at least there's some sort of flywheel effect. on
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the outside that's spinning, I think that's what's allowing them
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: to move toward the past, and then they take off.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: So it's that high speed that I think allows them
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to go further into the past. So they're using, you're
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: aware of the twins paradox, I'm sure. Time dilation, where
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: you have two twins, they're the same age, and then
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: one goes into a spaceship, they move at tremendously high speed,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: they come back, and they're much younger than their twin
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: because time moved faster back on Earth. I think they're
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: using that high speed motion while light cones are oriented
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: toward the past in order to travel deeper into the
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: past through that process of time dilation. There are limits
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: to how fast we can go. Einstein was very adamant
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: about this because there's an increase in inertial forces the
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: faster you go relative to the speed of light. That's
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: why he thought we could never go. That's why he
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: thought that anything with mass could never go faster than
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the speed of light. Light can do it because it's
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a wave or a particle or both Um, so I
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: think there's a limit to how fast we can go.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: The other reason is because Jim Penniston in this hypnotic
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: regression said that he's like, we can only go 40
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to 60,000 years into the past, or we might not
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: get back. You also have, and this is a more
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: speculative one. So take it for what it's worth. You
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: also have the Dan Burrish testimony of this J-Rod, this
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: allegedly captured alien who said, we're from the future. We
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: are you from the future. And we're from about 55
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: to 60,000 years in your future. So those three things
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: together are why I don't think we could go back
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: 65 million years to hunt dinosaurs, which actually would be
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: kind of fun.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: When you talk about going the speed of light, you're
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: talking about not traditional propulsion, but some form of propulsion
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: that allows you to go at insane speeds.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, electromagnetic is what it seems to be. And importantly,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40 times.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: More powerful than gravity. So not only do I think
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: that's what they used to fly, I think that's what
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: they used to manipulate space-time. Actually, and Dan Burrish is,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: not Dan Burrish, Dan Farah. I think you just had
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: him on, too, the Age of Disclosure.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: There's this really cool thing at the end where Hal
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Puthoff and I think Eric Davis as well were talking
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: about this space-time bubble, right? A really weird thing happened.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: We can get to that in a second. But I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: don't want to jump around too much because I'll lose
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: people and myself probably. But this space-time bubble that they
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: form around the craft I think is also indicative of
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the fact that they're manipulating space-time, that they're traveling in
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and out of time. They use it to hide in
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: plain sight. They manipulate the rate at which they move
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: relative to us in their frame of reference. And they're
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: moving fast all around us. And they've slowed time down
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: outside of that bubble. So everything is really, really slow
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: to them and they can easily evade our bullets and
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: our missiles. But we don't see them because we don't
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: have that frame rate of perception. And if you slow
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: videos down, I'm sure you've seen these all the time
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: where there's like and then you slow it down and
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: you can see this saucer shaped craft moving slowly across
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the sky once you slow down the frame rate. But
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: a really funny thing happened because I've never actually talked
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: about this with anyone before. I owe a lot. of
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the fact that anybody even knows who I am to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: help put off. When I first started talking about this
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: publicly in 2018, and then I published my book in 2019,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Identified Flying Objects, he, I guess, reached out to the
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: head of MUFON at the time, who was putting together
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: the 50th anniversary MUFON event, and was like, hey, you
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: should have this Mike Masters guy come talk. And I
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: found that out from the head of MUFON, he's like, hey,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: just so you know, Hal Puthoff, of all people, recommended
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: I contact you. I had no idea who that is.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: So I get on the internet and I Google Hal Puthoff.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: He also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend, in touch with
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: me after, I think he did an interview with him
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: and Weinstein. I forget his name.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Eric? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: So he did an interview with those two. I guess
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Hal was like, hey, you should reach out to McMasters.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: And he did. And we talked and we've done stuff together.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: But what was cool is that at the end of
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: that Age of Disclosure film, when he's talking about the
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: space-time bubble, I thought back to after my first book
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: came out, and I was contacted by someone who claimed
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to be an ex-intelligence person who explained that exact same
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: thing to me back in 2019, that these things aren't
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: doing 10,000 G maneuvers that would crush anything inside. To them,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: in their frame of reference, what they feel is completely
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: different than what we see. Because in that space-time bubble,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: they can be moving at 50,000 miles an hour, do
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: a right-hand turn, and it would splatter anything inside because
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: of the g-forces. That's what we see on the outside.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: But in that space-time bubble, they probably feel one, two
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: g's at the most. So I started thinking, man, was
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: that Hal? Did Hal reach out to me with like
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: a different email address and say, hey, just so you know,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: this is how these things are happening. This is how
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: they're able to do it. And I was a dumbass.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I still am a dumbass, but I was an extra
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: big dumbass back then. And I was like, oh, cool. Thanks, man.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: You know, like a story went viral about my books
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and Fox News picked it up and space.com. And so
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I was going through a bunch of emails. They recognized
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: I wasn't getting what they were saying. I was not
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: picking up what they were putting down. And they were like, no,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: this is important. Said it again. And then it clicked.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. They're
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: manipulating the rate at which time passes in this bubble
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: around the craft. And we see something completely different.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: So when we're seeing this, we are imagining what we
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: can do. And we're sort of saying, well, what would
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: be an advanced version of what we can do? And
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: what this technology is, is something that's levels of magnitude
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: beyond even our theoretical, like any sort of idea that
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: we have currently. about potential future timelines of technology. There's
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: no one talking about gravity bubbles that allow you to
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: instantaneously traverse immense gaps in the universe.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Well, they might be talking about it behind closed doors
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: And have been for 70 years, give or take.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: That's the real problem with disclosure. How much progress could
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: we have made if they had opened up all this
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: stuff And you got to imagine if you were an
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: intelligent life form from another planet, you know, Diana Pasolka
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: talked about, her and Gary Nolan talked about how they
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: refer to some of these things as donations. They don't
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: think of them as crashed vehicles because some of them
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: are not crashed. They're completely intact.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I think David Grush said that too, didn't he?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe he did.
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: And even, you know, Lazar, when, when he was talking
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: about it, he, you know, he.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Had a sports model. Wasn't that fully intact too?
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Fully intact. Yeah. Fully intact and operational. And apparently they
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: flew it around.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: No kidding.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: That'd be fun.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Well, that was one of the reasons, you know, the
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: whole story of how he got caught. It's a really
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: crazy story. So, uh, He used to work at Los Alamos.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: He was a propulsions expert. Guy put a jet engine
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: on the back of a Honda. He was a real freak.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: He made a hydrogen Corvette in the 1990s. He was
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: a nutty dude.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Clearly an engineer.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: That part checks out.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: So he gets this job on Area S-4 and goes there.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: And it's all documented in Jeremy Corbell's excellent movie, Bob Lazar,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Area 51 and Flying Saucers. So he goes there and
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: sees this thing and it's got a American flag sticker
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: on it. And, you know, they, they basically say, tell
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: us how it works. And he's like, Oh, this is ours.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Cause he sees it as a sticker on it. And
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: then he realizes this is made out of some completely
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: unknown alloy. There's no seams in it. It seems to
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: be 3d printed. There's no controls inside of it. It's
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: designed for something that's three feet tall. It's all very
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: fucking weird. Um, So he's working on this thing, not
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: making much headway at all. They understood that there was
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: an element, element 115, that was not even on the
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: periodic table, eventually found to actually be a thing by
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: the Large Hadron Collider. But even then, they only measured
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: it for a millisecond, right? So then he's saying that
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: they have this stable version of this element, and you
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: bombard it with radiation, creates this sort of gravity drive. Um,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: he's working on this thing and it's all top secret.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: So he cannot tell his wife. So they're calling him
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: up at 10 o'clock, like, Hey, get to the air place,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: the airport. Uh, we need you. And so he would
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: have to fly out at random times, fly out to S4.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: And his wife was like, this motherfucker's having an affair. Well,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have an affair too. So she starts
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: fucking her flight attendant or a flight instructor. I think
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: that's what it was. Um, When you have that kind
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: of clearance, they are monitoring everything. They're monitoring all your
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: phone calls. So they've realized that his wife is having
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: an affair and they think that he will be emotionally
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: unstable and it's too dangerous to have him working on
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: this insanely top secret information if he's not stable. So
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: they tell him, you know, we're going to at least
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: temporarily relieve you of your duties. So he's freaked out
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: and he tells his friends like, hey, this is– this
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: is what they're doing there. They have these things and
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: they fly them every Wednesday. I'm going to take you guys.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: There's an area we can go watch. So they take,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: he takes his friends out there on two separate occasions.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I believe, um, they get caught, they get caught, gets arrested. Uh,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: they release him and he realizes like, I'm kind of fucked.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: They might kill me. I'm going to have to go
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: public with this context. George Knapp.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I did see that.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Then the whole thing is history. Yeah.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: No, that's wild, man. And I think, And it's still happening.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: You know, there's still these whistleblowers.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: He says they used to fly them and you could
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: go watch them fly these things. And they were moving
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: in these really weird ways across the sky that you
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: cannot do with conventional aircraft. That they only sort of
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: understood how to, like, pick it up and put it down.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: They didn't understand how to, like, really move around.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: That was out at Groom Lake, right?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I remember as a kid. I've obviously been into this
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: for a long time. I remember as a kid seeing
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: videos of. people going out and then they eventually closed
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: it down you couldn't get to that spot but there
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: was like.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: That was during the obama administration during the obama administration
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: they actually had to admit that area 51 was real
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: because before that they didn't no one even knew it
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: was real i mean it was always just a joke
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: like area 51 it was like for fun but then
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: they said no it is real and we need to
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: expand the forbidden boundary.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah and isn't that when people are gonna like bum
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: rush it too Is that when that happened?
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: That was during COVID. Oh, okay. During COVID, there was
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: a bunch of dorks that were like, we're going to
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: crash Area 51. That's a good way to die. Exactly.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: They'll fucking kill you.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: A natural selection.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're working on a lot of stuff out there.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: And some of it is weapons.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: They can't have you internet dorks from Reddit just running
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: out into Area 51.
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I think they eventually realized that because I don't think
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: they went out there. But it could have been bad.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I think it was all bullshit. They weren't going to.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: What are you going to do? How are you going
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: to get out there?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Engagement farming. Yeah, man, there's a lot of crazy shit
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: that's been going on. It's been going on for a while.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Jamie and I were talking before and about the stove
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: piping too.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Stove piping?
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the different ways that they compartmentalize what they're doing.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: They talked about it in Age of Disclosure too. That's
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: a big problem because certain people are working on these
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: parts of the craft to reverse engineer them, to understand them,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: but they don't have the whole picture.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Lazar was talking about that from the 1980s. Yeah. In 1989,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: he said the people that work on metallurgy– We're not
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: in contact with the people that are working on propulsion.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: And he's like, science cannot operate like that.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: No, it can't because you need to know what's going
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: on beyond just this little part that you're working on.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: And if you have a bunch of people that are
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: sharing information, you get a much more comprehensive understanding of
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: what this thing is.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we all benefit from communication.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Right, because there could be something involved in the actual
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: structure of it that lends to its ability to do something.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: It might not be simple. just structure. It might be
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: structure with some sort of an ability Mm-hmm.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't see the forest through the trees in
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: these situations and and it's unfortunate and what the argument
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: they made in this this daco is that we're putting
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: ourselves at disadvantage because other countries have probably retrieved these
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: things too and And they might be working on it, yes,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: in secrecy, but if people are working together and not
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: stovepiping this thing ad infinitum, then they might be able
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: to actually make more progress faster than us. So part
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: of the disclosure push is to be like, yeah, these
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: things are real. We have them. Let's get our best
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: scientists together to work on this holistically instead of compartmentalizing it.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Well, just imagine if they had done that from 1947,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: where we would be.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: If that's real. If Roswell was real, if the crash
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: was real, Philip Drake Corso is correct, and all these
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: people are telling the truth. I know.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: And we still have to preface these things with if
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: it's real, if it's real. And, yeah, I do the
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: same thing. I mean, coming from academia, when I wrote
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: my first book, I had to be like, if this
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: is real. But it's hard. It's this– paradox of sorts
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: because how do you write to explain something that isn't real?
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: What's the point of even doing that?
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: So I think we have to assume. I'm actually teaching
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: a class at Montana Tech this spring called UFOs, History,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: and Science.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would take that if I was in school.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty stoked about it. And I had these artists
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: design a poster in Norway and the UK and just
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: this crazy, like, I was like, how conservative should I
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: be with this? Like, just a UFO?
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: No.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: And I gave him total artistic freedom. And there's like
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: an alien holding the earth and this UFO swinging around.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, I guess that's what I'm doing.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Plastered it all over campus to recruit people to take
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: the class. But like I'm going in on day one.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: We're not going to fuck around with like, are these
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: things real? We're not going to waste time on that.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: We're going to jump in.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: These are real.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Here's what we're doing. This is what we know. This
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: is what we don't know. Explore the theories. Explore the history.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Explore the prehistory. Because it's a waste of time. Like,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: these things are real.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: You think they're real? I know they are. What makes
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: you convinced?
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I have read enough accounts in researching this. And from
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: people that I know, I mean, starting from when I
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: was a kid, hearing my biological father's account, you know,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the way he told it. And then I interviewed him
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: again in college to try to get more information because
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I was just overhearing from the stairs when I was
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: supposed to be in bed. He saw what he saw.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: And then eventually... I saw some UFOs.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: What did you see?
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I was kind of pissed, actually, because I started talking
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: about this in 2018, and people were always like, you
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: ever seen a UFO? No, never seen a UFO. I'd
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: like to. And then finally, in 2022, it might have
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: been late 2021. I don't remember exactly when. It was
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: kind of warmish, so it was probably 2021. But everybody's
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: in bed. I'm at my house. I live in a canyon,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: and I was having a whiskey, and I was like,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I just walked up the canyon wall for some reason.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: like the hill behind my house. I don't really know why.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I turned around and I could see these five super
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: bright lights over what's known as the East Ridge in Butte, Montana.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: They're just like sitting there right over the East Ridge.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's not normal. Those aren't usually there.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: And they weren't stars. You know, they're way too big,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: way too close. I would say they were probably within
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: eight to five to eight miles. You know, they were
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: in the distance, but they were like there. And then
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I just kind of looked at them for a second. Like, oh,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: that's weird. And then one by one, from right to left,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: they just went, shot off toward the southeast at like
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: crazy speed. You know, like the kind of, like in
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Star Wars or Star Trek, they hit hyperdrive and there's
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: that little light trail. Like just one by one until
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: they were all gone. I have no conventional explanation for that.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: But I've never been one of those people that's like,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I need to see it to believe it.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Because I believe the people who say the same thing
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: over and over. There's patterns that we can extract from
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: people's testaments who have had these close encounters. And that's
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: one unfortunate thing that's happening right now is we're talking
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: about the pilots, talking about police. But people have been
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: seeing these forever. But they did such a good job
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: manufacturing the stigma around it with Project Sign, Project Grudge,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Project Blue Book. They discount these people to make them
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: seem insane. You know, these bad people.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Is one of the main points of evidence that I
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: would point to that there is something. When people think
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: there isn't something, I'm just like, you should really pay
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: attention to what they were trying to do during Project
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Boo Book. Yeah. Because one of them, I have a
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: buddy of mine, my friend Steve Graham. Shout out to Steve.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: When he was a boy, he was living in New York,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: upstate New York, and he filmed this red orb that
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: was flying across the sky, and he took some photographs
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: of it. And they called Someone, some officials somewhere. I
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: don't remember. He was very young. And they said, we
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: are going to analyze the photos and then we'll bring
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: them back to you. And they never returned the photographs.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: When he called, he said, no agents. There's no record
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: of any agents coming to visit you. We don't know
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: what to tell you. So they just took his photos
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: and that was it. But he said, whatever it was,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: you know, he was young. I believe he was 10
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: or 11. And he said, whatever it was, was really weird.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: He goes, it was this red... orb that was flying
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: through the sky. Um, it was a spacecraft. It wasn't
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: a sun. It wasn't a meteor. It looked like it
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: was moving purposely and under control. And, um, it was
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: there long enough for him to take a Polaroid of it. Yeah. And, um,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: they just completely erased any memory of it or any,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: any evidence of it when he called, like I said,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: they said no agents. Visited you, whatever the agent's name was.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: There was no agents by that name.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: That's kind of the status quo.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: They tried to make you look like a fool. Absolutely.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: And that was intentional. Like the stated mission of Project
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Grudge was to debunk these things, come up with conventional explanations,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: and make people seem like idiots.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Right. Even scientists. It wasn't to investigate. No, not at all.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: The purpose wasn't, let's get to the bottom of this,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: find out, is this Russia? Is Russia doing this? That
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: was not the purpose. The purpose was make these people
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: look like fools. You only do that if you know
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: something that other people don't.
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Monster Ultra. Everybody
• 55:48
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• 56:28
  Speaker 1: And it worked. They did a damn good job at
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: it because we still feel like fools talking about this.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: And we still have to check ourselves and be like,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: is this real? If this is real, you know?
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: But I think that shame is starting to diminish. I
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: think the stigma is starting to go away.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the New York Times article from 2017
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: was huge.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: That was a game changer.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: That was a big one.
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: And then from then on, it's been this trickle. These
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: guys like Ryan Graves and, you know, guys like David Favor.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: These David Favor's guys that was, you know, He was
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: in a fighter jet, saw this thing move from 50,000
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: feet above sea level to sea level in less than
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: a second. Yeah. And they saw this thing. There was
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: something under the water below it. It's like whatever he saw.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: And if you ever talked to him, have you ever
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: talked to him?
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I've talked to Alex Dietrich, who was with him during that.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: He's a very reliable guy. And very intelligent, by the book,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: very disciplined.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was like a top gun pilot. He
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: was leading the whole group, right?
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a commander. And when he describes it, it
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: sounds very real. Whatever he's talking about, he experienced. I
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: believe that. And there's also video of it. There's video
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: of it flying. They have the radar data. They know
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: that it went to their designated meetup point.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: The cap point.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is really weird. It is.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: And it indicates they knew the future or they were
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: part of our military.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: I kind of wonder if the Tic Tac, because it
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: is somewhat anomalous in the context of a lot of
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: things in the UFO lore as far as spinning disks
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: or big triangular craft. This one kind of seems like
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: one of ours.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Well, it is odd that these things happen where there's
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of military training exercises. Like this one was
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: off the coast of San Diego. It was off the Nimitz.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: So they had the Nimitz, which was out there. Obviously,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: you got a lot of military in San Diego.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: And the Roosevelt, too, I think is where they were
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: capturing the radar.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: And the ones that Ryan Grave experienced were all East Coast. Again,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: it's all near military bases. It's all where they do
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: military training exercises.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and why not figure out what you can do
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: with people that you train with already anyway?
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Right. And why not see, like, what is detectable and
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: what's not? You know, Ryan Graves talks about how in
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: 2014 they upgraded all the sensors in the jets, and
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden they started picking these things
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: up all over the place. He said they were encountering
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: them virtually every time they went out, which is so weird.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Imagine you're encountering, was it? a circle inside of a
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: sphere or a sphere inside of a circle?
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I think it was a circle and a sphere.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever it was. Which one was it? Was it
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: a circle and a sphere? It was.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: I just saw a picture on Twitter recently. It was
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: a little circle and then a cube or something.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: Very fucking weird, whatever that is.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: And able to hover motionless in, like, 200 knots of wind.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it would make sense if we are reverse
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: engineering these. They're going to look pretty primitive. It's basically
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: a big propane tank that they're flying around. Like, they
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: probably started simple. It's probably unmanned. But they're testing that
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: capability to, like, manipulate the space-time to shoot off. You know,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: because it dropped 80,000 feet in a couple seconds.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what it supposedly looks like.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: A cube inside of a sphere. Yeah, I can remember.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Apparently my dyslexia extends to images, too.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Explained using UFO patents. Click on that. Explained. A recent
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: article by The Hill has highlighted the reports of a
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: cube in a sphere UAP military pilots have been seeing
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: as reported by Graves, where he once again highlights how
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: often our pilots are seeing these things and why he
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't believe they are conventional drones or balloons. And so
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: this is obviously some sort of a computer-generated rendition. Ah,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: the fucking pop-up. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: But, I mean, yeah, they didn't get a picture of it, but.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: But here's the patents. Scroll up a little bit. So
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: a month ago I did a deep dive on a
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: post about UFO patents, how magnetohydrodynamic propulsion systems could explain
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: some of the observations. Includes an expired patent from the
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: 1960s and a few newer patents describing not only the propulsion,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: but how the plasma field can make the craft invisible
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: to radar.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah. I mean, again, it makes sense. Like if
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: we have been reverse engineering these for 70 years, we
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: would start bringing them out. They would look weird. They
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily look like the craft that we struggled to
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: fly at Groom Lake that we could go up and
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: down with and that's about it. Like they would look
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: like this little thing that's simple. It's basic. It's a
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: propane tank or it's a cube within a sphere. I
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: probably had that backwards again. And then experiment with it.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: See what you can do. And a lot of people
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: make the argument, well, why would they do that? It's dangerous.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: You know, what if there was a midair collision? If
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: they are actually manipulating space-time in these things, like they
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: seemingly are with the saucer-shaped craft, you don't have to
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: worry about that. You know, this isn't a cat-and-mouse game
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: where the cat and mouse are equal. Like, you have
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: complete control of space-time in and around that area. You're
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: not going to run into anybody. They're all moving extremely
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: slowly relative to you, according to Puthoff and Davis at
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: the end of that doco. And whoever reached out to me,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: whether it was Hal or not, Somebody reached out to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: me and explained the same thing in 2019, and it
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of damn sense. And to kind of
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: extend it into my area of research, if you can
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: manipulate space and time in and around this craft, what's
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: keeping you from using that to travel through time?
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I guess. I mean, but again, that's with the different model,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: not the multi-worlds model, but what was the other model
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: that you described?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: Block universe.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Block universe model.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Block universe theory. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: The idea that they would be so advanced that they
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: could genetically engineer a body and get to whatever state
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: they are at where they communicate telepathically, but yet they
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: can't solve the problem of old DNA. What do they need?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Genetic diversity? What is it? What are they trying to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: get out of us? Are they trying to get the
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: source material out? Instead of the old stuff or instead
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: of the stuff that they've had forever?
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: One of the arguments I made in my first and
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: second books is that really since European colonialism started about
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: 500 years ago, we are all becoming one interbreeding population.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: So it used to be that you had different isolated
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: populations and then occasionally there would be gene flow that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: introduces new genes. If we all are just one population
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: on this inbred island of Earth, where are you going
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: to get new gene variances? And then you combine that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: with the things we just talked about with the potential
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: for things to go wrong with trying to make designer
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: babies or, you know, the trends toward reduced fertility in
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: men and women. And importantly, the potential that there could
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: be some massive cataclysm that puts us into a huge
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: bottleneck where there just is no genetic diversity at all.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Like if you think about something that happened that wiped
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: out a huge percentage of the population. And there are
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: warnings about this over and over again with experiencers and contactees.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: They're like, there's some cataclysmic thing coming. If that were
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: to happen, all of those problems we're already having, all
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: of the trends that are already leading to us having
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: problems with fertility in the future will be hugely exacerbated
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: by a very limited gene pool.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Well, we know that human beings have gotten down to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: a very small population in the past. Yeah. So we are.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: So we're already kind of limited.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: In our diversity.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: What do you think of the theory that human beings
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: have been genetically engineered?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: Man, when I first started in all this, I wouldn't
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: touch that one because I had to impose some restrictions
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: on myself so I didn't seem like a crazy person.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: And keep your academic standing.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I don't really care anymore, to be honest.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Well, you sold a few books.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I sold some books. I mean, that's the thing.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I do have the respect of my peers.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: And it's not a career killer anymore.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: No, exactly. Back in 2018, I was kind of rolling
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: the dice. I was really nervous about it. I went
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: to the chair of my department and was like, hey,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: just so you know, in case there's any pushback, I'm
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: publishing this book about whether UFOs are future humans. And
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: he looked at me and cocked his head and was like,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: that's our job. It's what we're supposed to be doing,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: asking questions like that. Like he was all pissed off. Like,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: why are you even asking me this or telling me this?
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a cool guy. Yeah.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, sweet. All right. Well, check.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: I got one. I got one on board at least.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: But I was really conservative in this approach. Like the
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: dean actually of my college who gave me an award
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: for scholarship and researchers. And there's a lot of amazing
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: researchers at Montana Technological University. Like we're very well known
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: for research and scholarship. She gave me an award in
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: 2022 for research and scholarship. And all I was doing
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: at that point was UFO stuff. You know, that was
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: kind of a nod too. But she was telling me
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: the other day in a meeting, because I'm the chair
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: of the department, unfortunately. And she was like, oh, your
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: dissertation book. Because I did kind of write my first
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: book as a dissertation. It's very scientific. It's very dense.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: It's very technical. But I needed to do that because
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: of the stigma, because of the shame. And you're right.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: It is changing sometimes. which is great. But there are
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: certain things that we still can't, that are hard for
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: me to talk about because it starts to get into
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: ancient aliens territory. And that's one of them. Are they
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: manipulating us genetically? Have they been for a long time?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I used to say, I don't know.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: So I didn't have to talk about it. Now I say,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Cause I genuinely don't know. Maybe.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Well, how could you?
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: How could I? Yeah. Good point.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's all theoretical. But there seems to be
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: a trend in at least the encounter reports. When people
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: have reported some sort of communication with these things, there's
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of talk of genetic manipulation. There's a lot
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: of talk of.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: It's the most common trope.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But it also makes sense when you look at
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: how different we are than any other animal that exists
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: or has existed. True. We're so advanced and so weird
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: and we vary so much like biologically and structurally. I mean,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: there's animals like there's different kinds of wolves, right? There's
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: gray wolves and red wolves and they vary. And, you know,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: red wolves and gray wolves, they can't even interbreed and
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: create viable offspring in terms of like their ability. Like
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: there would be hybrids if they did breed where they wouldn't.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: But they don't. They don't breed with red wolves and coyotes,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: which is also a type of wolf. But that's kind
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: of where it ends. Whereas humans are fucking weird. At
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: least coyotes all look like coyotes. Wolves all kind of
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: look like wolves. Like with humans, you get seven foot
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: tall people and five foot tall people and round people
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: and thin people.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: But we are actually all very similar genetically. There's a
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: study done in the 70s looking at polymorphisms. And they
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: found that between like what used to be thought there
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: were races like Africans, Asians. and Europeans, that was it.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: They didn't consider native Americans or Australians or anybody. Um,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: but they did this study on polymorphisms found that only
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: about six to 7% of our, all of our genetic
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: differences can be accounted for by those between group differences.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: And they did the same thing with Y chromosomes. They
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: did the same thing with craniofacial anatomy and found that
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: we're all very similar. So despite those differences in height, weight,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: skin color, hair color, eye color, we're, we're very, very similar.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: which could, again, lead to problems related to genetic homogenization,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: limited gene pool in the future, needing to go back
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: and sample gametes from the past. Another argument I hear
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: people make related to what you're saying, like an argument
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: for potential genetic manipulation of the human species over time,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: is that it all happened really fast. We see this
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: acceleration in our rate of change, rate of our technological development,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Those things might indicate that there's some sort of seeding
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: in the past with not just technology, but the genetics
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: that allow us to expand our minds and develop these things.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Well, then there's the weird stories from ancient scripts, ancient
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: texts like the Book of Enoch. Like, what what is
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: that all about? Like that's some weird stuff where it
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: talks about the watchers coming down from the sky and
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: mating with humans and creating the Nephilim who destroy everything. Yeah.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: I might get some shit for this, but I would
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: be willing to bet that all major religions and the
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: little ones, have some sort of UFO alien component to
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: the myth and legend that gave rise to them over time.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: It makes sense. It does.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Actually, the third book I wrote, Revelation, flips the whole
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: script on Revelation, and it interjects time travelers. It interjects
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: this whole... For a while, there was this question of
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: whether there was a fight over the timeline, whether the
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: greys were coming back to... because some cataclysm needed to
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: happen and we all went underground and that's why we
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: have big eyes and pale skin. So we had to
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: evolve underground for a while. And then another group, like
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: trying to keep that from happening. So the book kind
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: of explores that in a fictional capacity. And I wrote
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: it because my friends weren't reading my science books. Cause
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: they're dense and scientific. And I was like, man, you know,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: what if I wrote a book that's just like a
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: crass sex drug fueled exploration of like this time travel idea.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: And that's where that book came from. It still ties
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: in all of these same concepts scientifically. But in the story,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: like the main character is an intertemporal sex researcher. She
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: goes back in time and just fucks everybody to learn
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: what sex is. That's the book I gave you when
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: I got here, actually. It's a weird one.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: That's right here.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird one. But it was super fun
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: to write, you know. And then her, the professor in
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: this book, he's like the, he's an intertemporal drug kingpin
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: of sorts. Um, but, but it's like, it's exploring these
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: same ideas in a different way, you know, with fiction,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: it's satire, it's comedy. The word most commonly used is
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: it's hilarious. It's a comedy book, you know, cause I
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: wanted people that don't read the science books to still
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: be introduced to this concept and the science behind it
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: in a different way. And man, it was so much
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: more fun to write than those science books.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: What do you think of, um, when people start theorizing
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: about some sort of a breakaway civilization? that lives under
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: the ocean? Yeah.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: So we actually published a paper about that last June
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: about the crypto terrestrial hypothesis. You mentioned it on your
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: show in a really funny way. Cause it went viral internationally.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: It was absolutely insane. The impact this thing had. Um,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: like I had to go on Fox and friends one
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: morning to talk about it. And then the next day
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: What made it go viral?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: What was the, well, cause I published it with two
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: guys from Harvard and I was a co-author on the paper,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: and so it's clickbait. It's Harvard researchers say dinosaurs are
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: aliens and they live among you. So stuff like that.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: And it worked.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Well, it makes you go, what?
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Yours was the funniest one. You guys pulled it up
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: on your screen, and you're like, man, these Harvard researchers
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: must have snuck in where they're doing the psilocybin experiments
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: and ate all the mushrooms. That cracked me up. And
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think we did. I don't remember if we did.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think we did. But it definitely had elements
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: of like, these guys ate a lot of mushrooms, which
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: was part of why it went viral. But there were
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: some really solid arguments in there. And the title of
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: the paper was scientific openness to the crypto terrestrial idea.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: That's all we were advocating for. And we listed four
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: main ways in which this crypto terrestrial idea could happen.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: And the fourth one is what really got clickbaity because
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: we were like, Maybe there is a breakaway civilization. That's
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: the crypto terrestrial idea. But maybe an advanced reptile dinosaurs
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: didn't go extinct. And this was, you know, we don't
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: think this actually happened, but we're just putting out arguments
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: for what this idea could be. And so, yeah, they
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: took that and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and stuff
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: like that. But one of them is time travelers. And
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: it would make sense if you were in the future,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: instead of jumping back through time in order to study
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: people in a specific time, You set up a base
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: on the far side of the moon, where up until
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: the 60s, 70s, we wouldn't know they were there. Set
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: up a base under the oceans. And this would go
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: for the extraterrestrial idea too. Instead of traversing the vast
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: swaths of space, come here, set up under the oceans
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: where we're not going to find you, Antarctica, far side
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: of the moon. And then you can do everything here
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: locally instead of having to jump across space, extraterrestrial, or
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: jump across time, extra tempest room.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it also explains some of the very strange ways
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: that they've observed crafts moving under the water. Like they've
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: observed crafts moving under the water at 500 knots that
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: are as big as a football field. And apparently there's
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: video of these things. Apparently there's, you know, the Navy
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: has something that they filmed that is as big as
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: a football field that was going essentially 500 miles an
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: hour underwater without any ripples, not disturbing the water at all,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: not creating a wake.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: And then moving right out of them, the transmedium capacity.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, when you think about how little
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: exploration we've done to the bottom of the ocean, we
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: know more about the moon than we do about the
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: surface of the actual bottom of the ocean.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it would be a great place to hide out.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: And again, you know, the ability to move in and
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: out of air, water, space, upper atmosphere with no disturbances is,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: the transmedium capabilities, that whole warped space-time bubble around them
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: would help explain that too, that they're not experiencing the water.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: They're not experiencing the air as they move between them.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: I always think about, I really love skiing, and one
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: of my favorite times to ski is late season. It's April,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: the sun's out, everybody's in T-shirts or bikinis or whatever.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: I don't wear bikinis, but people do. And you get
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: into that slushy stuff. You're cruising down the mountain, you
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: hit the slush, and you just go ass over kettle,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: you know, over the top of your skis. And that's what,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: you know, we would expect if they're moving in and
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: out of air and water and space is that there
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: would be some resistance. There's not. You know, they don't
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: have that. And it does indicate that there is some
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: sort of manipulation of space and time around them. And, yeah,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: moving underwater, these football field-sized crafts, going that fast i
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: mean how can you do that if there is actual
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: resistance from the water well.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: It just makes you wonder how much does the government
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: know you know you've seen that guy tim burchett talk
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: about it he's hilarious yeah it was very funny i
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: mean he was just casually mentioning that there's five different
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: locations in the ocean of the world in the seas
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: of the world where they've observed crafts coming out of
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: that's a very weird thing to just say while you're
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: walking Just casually talk about it.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: And with such confidence, yeah. I mean, they're doing these skiffs.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: They're talking to people behind closed doors. They don't have
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: the same requirement to not disclose things as those people do.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: They didn't sign NDAs. And he has a hilarious way
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: of talking about it. He's got the best one-liners of
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: anybody discussing this stuff. I mean, somebody knows. Somebody knows
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. A lot of people probably know
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of things and have for a very long time.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: But what is that relationship? What do they control? Why
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: are we not allowed to know?
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the real question. What do they actually
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: know about what's going on in the ocean? If there
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: are bases somewhere down in the ocean, there's that weird one,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: the Baltic Sea Anomaly. I don't know that one. Jesse
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Michaels just did a show about it where he interviewed
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: the guy who found it. I think they're treasure divers.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: And they found this very strange thing that is sitting
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: on the floor of the ocean. And it has right
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: angles to it. And it's kind of curved. There's an
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: actual– I don't know what kind of an image is
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: of it. But they have explored this thing. And he's
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: convinced that it's not a natural formation.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: See if you can find something on the Baltic Sea.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Put that into our sponsor, Perplexity. So is there an indication?
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: It's like– Like a base or something?
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: It looks like a fucking Millennium Falcon. What's wrong with
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: my mouth today? I can't say Millennium Falcon. Like that's
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: what it looks like.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: So, you know, look, this could be something that's sitting
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: on or it could be something that was built at
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: a time where this was not covered by ocean. Like
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: you live in Montana. Montana used to be the great
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: inland sea, right?
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: You could find seashells in Montana, which is really weird.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and even all along the coast of Alaska, there
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: was about a 110-foot rise in sea level over the
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: last 12,000 years.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: So what is that thing? These are all artistic renditions.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Some of them are. But the other one, that blue
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: one that you see there, that's the real thing. That's
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: what it actually looks like.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty anomalous.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Right. What is that, though? Is that an ancient structure
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: that people built 20,000 years ago? What is it? Baltic
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Sea Anomaly is a sonar-detected seafloor formation in the northern
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: Baltic Sea found in 2011 by Swedish OceanX, formerly Ocean
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Explorer Team, during a treasure-hunting expedition. Most geologists who have
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: examined the available data consider it a natural rock formation
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: shaped by glacial processes despite ongoing popular speculation about UFOs
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: or artificial origin.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's tough, man.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: There's that thing off the coast of Malibu. too. Is
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: it Malibu or is it Catalina Island? Was that one
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: thing where it was in Google Earth and they blurted
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: it out after a while?
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 5: I think that was just a Google Earth thing.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe. Maybe not, but. But it was on Google Earth
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: and now it's blurred.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 5: I read where they're getting the data from Google Earth.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: What is that data?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: So it was like bad data and then it cleared up.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Also, that's a good answer.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: That's a good answer for the government.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I did a talk in Manhattan last year and Tim
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Galladet was one of the speakers and he was showing
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: images of I think what you're talking about where there
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: was like this sort of almost like a cliff underwater
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: and then had some strange things around it, like it
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: had been modified. I don't remember exactly what he was saying,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: but I think that's what you're talking about. That was
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: just off of Catalina Island.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, it was very weird looking. A lot
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: of people were speculating. And one of the reasons why
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: it's very weird, there's a lot of sightings off of
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: Catalina Island. There's a lot of sightings out there.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, it makes sense if they were Trying
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: to covertly study us, regardless of their origins, ultra-terrestrial, extra-terrestrial, whatever.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: Use the oceans.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: Perfect.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: Perfect base. It's very difficult for us to get there.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Especially if you can move in and out of there
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: with impunity, not just because we won't see them, but
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: they have the technology to make the water and the
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: air the same thing.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: Click on that image where the curse is at?
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: So that's it. That was it. Whatever that is. Like,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: that looks real weird. It does look weird. That looks
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: real weird. Whatever the hell that is. That's so strange.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: That's so strange looking. But again, that's like, is that
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: what it really looks like? What are the new images?
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: Is the new one on the right? Okay, that's it
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: right there.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: The one I had up says it's from 2014.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: Like, what the hell is that? It's got pillars. I mean,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: that's very strange. It has those sort of uniform shaped pillars.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the top looks structural. Very flat. Like something
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: you would make to withstand the weight of the water
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: above you.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Like a garage door. Like it's a garage door to
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: a base. Yep.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, again, when I started out in this,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: I was relatively conservative with my views on things. But, man,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: the further you go down this rabbit hole, just the
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: weirder shit gets, and you can't do that anymore. You've
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: got to recognize that there's a lot of things that
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: just you can't write off. The impossible will become possible,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: or at least you have to open your mind to
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: the fact that these things you used to think were
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: impossible need a second look.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: Right. And then there's also the people that work in
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: military intelligence that work with these defense contractors that say
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: there's black operations, like operations that are completely top secret
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: that are 30 years ahead of anything that you can
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: imagine right now. So you go, okay, well, what does
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: that look like? What does 30 years ahead of us
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: now look like?
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that was SR-71, the black bird or whatever
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: it is, black whatever. Yeah. yeah, like we didn't even
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: know about that until 20 years after they had made it.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: And it makes sense. You know, you don't want your
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: enemies to know. And that's an argument that's been made
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: over and over that we can't disclose things because then
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: our enemies will have this technology. And I always thought
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: growing up that, you know, it'll take a war before
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we need to use these things we've
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: been developing. Like we're getting our ass kicked in this war.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: It's time to bring out the UFOs and our laser
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: weapons and stuff. But I, I kind of think it's
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: going to happen before that. It's, it's, It's weird to say,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: but I kind of get the sense that it is happening.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of false horizons. People have been
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: saying that for a long time. But doesn't it feel different?
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: It definitely does feel different.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: It definitely feels that the general public is a lot
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: more open to the concept without being thought of as
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: a fool. It used to be when I was a kid,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: if you'd bring up UFOs, people would just roll their eyes,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: especially before the internet. Oh, my God. If you brought
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: up any of that stuff, they would laugh at you.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: I was reading some book on Roswell once. I think
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: it was in the 1990s. And this guy's like, what
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: the fuck are you wasting your time on this complete
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: horseshit for? There's no such thing as UFOs. I'm like,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: how do you say that with such confidence? We live
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: in a galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars just
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: in this galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars in
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: other galaxies. And there's hundreds of billions of other galaxies.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: What are you saying? That's crazy to say. That we
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: are the only ones.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: It is. They did a really good job at making
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: us feel like idiots.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you can see how that can be done.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, look what they did during the
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: COVID crisis. You know, if you don't get a vaccine,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: make your end of life preparations now. You know, like
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: you're going to be killing everybody. No one's going to survive.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: This disease targets the unvaccinated. And people believed all that.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the two are related, too, because we
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: started to figure out that we've been lied to about UFOs.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: And the obvious question is, what else? What else were
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: they lying to us about?
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, I think once you realize how strong the
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: propaganda machine is and how gullible people are.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That's the big one.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: Easily. I mean, if people were going to accept something
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: as 100 percent truth, any investigation or any skepticism from
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical drug industry. They are the most evil motherfuckers
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: that have ever lived. They are responsible for more death
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: from releasing drugs that have horrible adverse side effects that
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: they knew about. They have taken the largest criminal fines
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: of any companies. I mean, what they've done is really
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: fucking creepy when you look at how they released drugs
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: that they knew were going to fuck people over and
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: they knew those people didn't need those drugs. And yet,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: when you put people in a scary situation and you
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: make them terrified and you offer up a solution, they
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: believe wholeheartedly that the pharmaceutical drug companies were only telling
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: the truth and anybody who didn't believe.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: They have your best interest in mind.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: So it's like that sheep mentality is so strong with
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: so many people. There's so many cowards in the world
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: and so many followers that would just step in line
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: the moment things get weird. Whenever they get challenged, the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: moment things get weird, that it just makes sense that
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: if you make it, like, Socially, you become a social
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: pariah if you start talking about UFO. Here's Mike with
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: his fucking wacky UFO theories. Like people don't talk about
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: those things. They don't want to bring them up.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: And the military industrial complex is kind of the equivalent
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: of the pharmaceutical companies on the other side of this coin.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: We trust them. They defend us, whatever they are making.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll use for great purposes. But, yeah, I mean,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: a big part of that was making us feel like
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: idiots for talking about this stuff. And that is changing, though.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: And it's not largely because of, you know, ancient aliens.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: I've been on the show five times. I had a
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: little bit of cognitive dissonance the first time.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: I went on. That show goes, they go way out there.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: They get out there, man.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: But it's just fun.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: It is fun. You know, and that's how I approached it. Well,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: I also approached it because I was trying to talk
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: about this theory. They did this funny bait and switch
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: for the first three episodes I was on where they're like, hey,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: come down and talk about your theory. I'm like, oh, okay.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: So I go to LA or wherever. And we do
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: this shoot. They cut out everything about my books and
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: this theory and just used me to talk about whatever
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: the show was actually about.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Little small snippets.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I caught on to that. And so the fourth
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: time I went, I was like, all right, but I'm
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: only doing it if you guys actually, you know. But
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: one of the episodes was about this whole theory anyway.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: So it made sense. But anyway. Oh, the stigma. So
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: one of the cool things that's been happening, largely because
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: of your show, you know, you talk about this a
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: lot and it helps normalize it for a lot of people,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: is that there's a safe space now, you know, like
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: where you'll be talking about these things and somebody will
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: come up who had a sighting when they were, you know,
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: a teenager in their 40s or whatever, and they never
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: told anybody. And now it's like, wait, it's safe to
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: talk about this? And that's so cool to see, man.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: And then it makes me realize just how many people
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: have had an experience that's been bottled up inside. And
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: it's liberating to let that come out. And we're sharing information.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: And contactees, too. You know, unfortunately, I started saying earlier,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: we're still kind of stuck on. This is changing, too.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: But we're still largely stuck on the cockpit videos and
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: the FLIR and the gimbal and the GoFast. But people
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: have been taken into these craft. They've had stuff put
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: on their junk and their semen taken. Their junk. Like
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of no, no square touching that happens.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: Anal probes, you know, and we used to laugh at that,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: but that is such a common theme throughout these. And
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: we need to recognize that these people are having real
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: experiences and have been having them for a very long time.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: Let's move on. Let's talk to these people. Let's let
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: the contactees and experiencers who have had the closest form
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: of a close encounter you can have. Let's trust them now.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to what they have to say. Let's be discerning,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: you know, but let's keep an open mind.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, One of the more interesting things when
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: you start talking about stories and encounters, one of the
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: more interesting things is some of the research that Jacques
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: Vallée has done where he brings up stories that absolutely
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: predate the modern cultural visions of UFOs. Like the modern
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: cultural concept of the close encounter of the third kind
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: type greys that come down in a flying saucer. All
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: those things, like Flying Saucer didn't even come out until
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: the Kenneth Arnold experiences. So these encounters, people were talking
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: about from the 1700s and the 1800s. And they're talking
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: about something coming down. and something interacting with people and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: them having some sort of experience of lost time. The
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: thread is very common, the Betty and Barney Hill story.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just the gamete extractions. I mean, you
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: could make the argument that a lot of things that
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: happened in very mainstream religious texts were exactly what people
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: are describing. Even the CIA admitted that unexplainable pregnancies are
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: an aspect of the phenomenon, you know, where Jesus come from.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: Kind of an unexplainable pregnancy. I think Jesus was a
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: time traveler, personally.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: A time traveler.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another aspect of that book. That's in your satire?
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: It's in my satire book, yeah. I think.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, you literally have Jesus coming out of a UFO.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: I got some shit for that. I bet you did.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: He's throwing up the double bird.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's hilarious.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: It turns out Christians don't like that.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: You can't please everybody, right?
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: No, you can't.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: But there are many aspects of Jesus' life, big fan
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: of Jesus, by the way, that are very paranormal. A
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: lot of these seemingly... miraculous things I think can be
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: explained with a lot of the same technologies that we
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: see today. We just didn't have a way of conceptualizing them.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Obviously Ezekiel is the one that gets talked about a lot.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: The wheel within a wheel, the telepathy, the embers, burning embers.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah. And then you look at the Nephilim like, uh, and,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: and all kinds of different certain Baba want to race. Uh, this, um,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: story from Zulu lore. It's, it's a fucking alien abduction, man.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: And they've been telling this story for thousands of years.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: So it's this woman, the sky goddess, who chooses a
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: man to mate with and comes down, tests him to
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: make sure that he knows that it's her, appears in
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: his dreams, communicates telepathically, gets him ready for this interaction.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: He's in love with her, never met her before. She
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: comes down from the sky and takes him up with
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: her on this rainbow of light. And I made the
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: case in my second book that if Antonio Villas-Boas... had
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: been able to go back with the woman that he
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: had sex with. It's basically the same story. So this
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: Brazilian lawyer is telling a story that's identical to this
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: Zulu legend that's been told for centuries, millennia. I don't
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: know how far it goes back.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: Kind of weird.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: But we need to look outside of just the mainstream view,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: which is finally happening. So I'm excited about that.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: I'm very excited.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: I'm just grateful. I have a lot of gratitude about
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: what's happening.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: But we can go farther. Why did the mainstream view
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: become what it is? And we know that that is
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: because of a concerted, concentrated propaganda effort.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: And a very effective one. They nailed it.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: There was no other media back then. They had complete
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: control of newspapers, complete control of television stations. I mean,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: how much do we know now about various news anchors
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: that were actually CIA agents? There's a fucking shit.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: Ton of them. And even if they weren't, they were
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: being force-fed this stuff that they were happy to regurgitate.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. They just wanted to look good and have
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: a suit and speak like an expert. Here we go.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: And if you don't toe the line, somebody else will.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you're living a great life. You drive a Mercedes.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: You live in a nice house. Why would you fuck
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: this up? Over a UFO story, just tell your friends.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: Just tell everybody what you're supposed to tell them.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's easy to get people to comply like that,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: especially when they're dependent upon, you know, whether it's a
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: corporate entity like CNN or whether it's New York Times
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is. It's not hard to get people
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: to comply. No.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: And you're right. Since the Internet, things have changed. Radically.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: Really radically. Radically.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: But I think there's a downside, too. We've already kind
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: of been moving toward a post-truth existence.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: Good Lord, man.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: I'll scroll through videos on Twitter now. 90% of them
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: are fake.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's so much AI now. It's so ridiculous. It's
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: so crazy.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: I make the unfortunate decision to go into the comments
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: to see what percentage of people think it's real.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: 80.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: 90? I would say at least 90. It's insane. I
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: still have it on my phone. It's a stupid fucking
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: video of a rabbit. like nursing its little rabbit babies.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: And one of them is a cat. So the mom
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: cat comes in, picks the fucking baby cat up by
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: the nose. Like they're magnetically attached. It doesn't even grab it.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: Like they just, the baby kind of comes with it
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: and then walks out the back of the burrow. Like
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: there's no back to a rabbit burrow, you know? And
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: everybody's like, Oh, whoops, that cat made a mistake. It's
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: drinking from the wrong species. People don't see it. They
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: don't see that this is very obviously fake and it's,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: It's not just for that. They're using it for propaganda.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: They're using it for the same type of thing that
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: they've used forever. Oh, well, this UFO phenomenon is not
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: real because AI made this video.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: Well, there's also the problem with what percentage of people
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: that are even commenting are actual people.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: There's a huge amount of bots that are communicating on
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: all the social media platforms. A giant percentage of the
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: comments are not real people.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: That's a really good point.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: No, you're right.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: So they would comment on anything. And just say, wow,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: that's amazing.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: But that also still feeds the perception that it's real.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: Because other people that maybe don't have great critical thinking
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: skills or discernment because, you know, their 90-year-old grandma that
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't know how to use a computer, she sees that, oh,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: it's cute.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: I think it erodes the consensus intelligence.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: Like the overall level of intelligent discourse that a society
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: puts out. You know, if you have a town square,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: which is like Twitter is our town square, right? If
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: that town square is... populated by fake people, like enormous
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: percentage populated by fake people that are just designed to
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: say the most inflammatory, ridiculous things to get interaction and
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: engagement and also to erode people's faith in other people
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: and to make us argue with each other.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: To construct the other, like you were saying at the
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: beginning of this conversation, it fuels tribalism.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: It's really problematic.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: My my hope is that eventually there'll be some way
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: to accurately discern and it'll stop that stuff from happening.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: You know, that you'll be able to tell like very
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: clearly whether or not it's an actual person. The problem
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: is that if that does happen, it's a gateway to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: digital ID because you would have to lose your anonymity.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: Cause if, if you're like, Anonymity is very important for whistleblowers.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: Like say if you work for a corporation, you find
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: out that corporation is dumping stuff into a river and
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: it's all secret and it's illegal and you know that
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: if you tell, they're going to kill you. And you're
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: an executive of that corporation. Your conscience is troubled. You
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: can make a fake account. You could sign up through
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: a VPN. You can make a fake account and you
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: could post all this information that you know and you
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: could break a story and you don't face any consequences.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: You don't get killed. If you have digital ID, if
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: we know who everybody is that's posting something and you
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: make that same post, who knows what they do to you?
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: Who knows what happens?
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's been happening. There's been whistleblowers who have
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: had mysterious deaths.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: All over the place.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: For a long time.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: All over the place.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unfortunate.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: Didn't Gary Webb, didn't he shoot himself in the head twice?
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Was that the story?
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: That's the one Tim Burchette always says. get shot or
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: you shoot yourself in the back of the head four
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: times or something.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's in reference to that.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: How did Gary Webb die? Yeah, but even if that's
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: not true, there's a bunch of stories about whistleblowers who
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: go missing. Yeah, there's so many examples. If you're inconvenient
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: and you're going to cost them billions of dollars and
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: they can just get rid of you, they just get
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: rid of you, whoever they are.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah it all comes down to money and it has
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: for a very long time.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 5: Someone was uh deciding if this was accurate they found
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 5: in a case where someone shot themselves in the head
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 5: eight times oh that's a lot so there's a couple.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: Cases where it's not boy that's a commitment i mean
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: i guess if it was like an airsoft gun or
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: something i don't think that killed me that'd be a
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: really inefficient way to kill yourself yeah the whole thing's
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: crazy do you think it's even possible With an airsoft gun?
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: Airsoft gun?
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Like a lobotomy kind of? You shot yourself up the
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: nose eight times? Nah, it's not that fast. No, it's not,
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, it might eventually give you an infection.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, see? So you couldn't.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: I guess. If you've got enough airsoft bullets in you.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: Just fills up your entire nasal cavity.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: And you never went to the doctor. Maybe eventually you'd
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: get an infection.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: I think somebody might intervene at that point.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: When I was living in L.A. when I first moved there,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: a guy had killed himself accidentally on a set because
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: he took a gun that was a blank gun and
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: he shot himself in the head, like trying to be funny.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: And it killed him because the force that comes out
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: of the gun is still extremely powerful. And he put
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: it to his temple and he literally caved his skull in.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: That sucks.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: That's rough.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was just an actor who just didn't know
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: any better, and he thought he was just going to
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: be funny. Yeah, so shooting yourself in the head twice,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: highly unlikely.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: Eight times.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: But I guess you could shoot yourself in the head
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: once and just really fuck it up, but be aware
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: that you're still alive and be committed to doing it
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: and then shoot yourself a second time. I guess it's possible.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, unless the pain response was like, yeah, it
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: didn't feel good. I don't want to do that again.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: Or maybe the pain response was so bad you want
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: to do it again just to end the pain.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good point, yeah. Like, whoops, let's get
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: this over with. I don't know.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: But our point, what we're getting at is that for
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: the longest time, there was no real outlet to get
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: true information out other than books. And books are so
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: easily maligned. You know, if someone has a kooky book,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: you read it and you go, oh, that guy's nuts.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: That is a conspiracy theory. And then, of course, that
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: term's popularized during the JFK assassination because of that very reason.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of people that doubted the official story,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: and those people became conspiracy theorists.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: Have you looked into that much?
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: I kind of thought you had. Who do you think
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: did it?
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: I think there was a lot of people. I think
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: here's a mistake that people make. They say Lee Harvey
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: Oswald acted alone or Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved and
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: he was a patsy. Lee Harvey Oswald shot a cop.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: There's very few people that disagree on that. I think
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: it's Officer Tippett. I think that was his name when
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: he was on the run. So Lee Harvey Oswald absolutely
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: seems to be some sort of an intelligent asset. in
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: some way or another, married a Russian woman, lived in
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: Russia for a while, came back to the United States
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: during the time of the whole, I mean, this is
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: right after the Red Scare, the fact that this guy
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: went to Russia, married a Russian woman, came back, and
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: the whole thing's screwy.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: He could have been a patsy and involved too, right?
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: I heard some theory once about like the driver turned
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: around with some gun or was there something about like
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: a Poisonous fish thing?
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: Horseshit. That's all horseshit? All horseshit.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: That's what I was asking because I don't know.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of those. One of the best
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: ways to make a conspiracy theory seem absolutely ridiculous is
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: to add a bunch of really silly ones into the mix.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: And so that any conspiracy theory involving something that's not
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: the official narrative But there's just so many aspects of
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: the Kennedy assassination, the back and to the left, the headshot,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: the shot in the neck from the front, the magic bullet,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: which is the most preposterous. There's a lot of them.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of these weird aspects to it. And
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: there's also the fact that Kennedy was very hated. Also
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, it's in Dealey Plaza, which
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: is like, why would you ever drive someone through there
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: in a convertible that's the president? That's a very... You know,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: any president is, you know, we think of JFK was
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: the most loved president, right, by half the country. That's
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: how it always is, folks. There's always half the country
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: that thinks you suck and half the country that loves you.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: That's how it was with Clinton. That's how it was
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: with Obama. So it is with everybody.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: No, we don't tend to agree on those things as
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: an entire human population.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of people that were very happy
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: when he died. including Dulles. So Dulles was fired by
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: JFK and then was on the Warren Commission investigating JFK's assassination,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: which is hilarious. It's kind of crazy. Richard Nixon, also
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: in the Warren Commission. The Warren Commission, there's a great
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: book on it called Best Evidence by David Lifton. And
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: he was an accountant that was hired to do something
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: with the Warren Commission, some aspect of the Warren Commission.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: So he decides to read the whole thing It's a
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: huge amount of pages. I forget how many pages are
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: in the Warren Commission report. I think it's at least
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: 900 pages. So he reads the whole thing. And after it,
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: he comes to this conclusion, like there's so many inconsistencies.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: There's so many contradictions. There's like this. This doesn't make
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: any sense. Like they were trying to reach a conclusion.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: So many of the witnesses that saw the assassination died
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: in very weird deaths.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: The statistical possibility or probability of all those people dying
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: from murder, suicide, car accidents, you know, it's just too weird.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: It's too weird.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: What about the UFO connection? Like, that's the one I hear.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: Because there are, like, CIA ties and I don't know.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's bullshit and what's not, you know?
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: There was clearly, like, we had the technology for 20
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: years at that point.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: But what does a president even know?
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they know. I don't know whether
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: or not they would kill him for that. That doesn't
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: make any sense. That doesn't make any sense. You know
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: the Nixon story with Jackie Gleason?
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: You don't know that story?
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: Uh-uh.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: The story is that Jackie Gleason and Nixon were drinking
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: one day, and, you know, they were friends, and Nixon
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: was like, I want to see a fucking UFO. They
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: get in a plane and he took them to, was
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: it Wright-Patterson? Jamie, do you remember?
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 5: I think it was somewhere in Florida. But I don't, they,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 5: I remember when we looked this up, they said there's,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 5: he went somewhere.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: I'll look it up.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: So anyway, supposedly sees this recovered craft and bodies that
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: are in freezers. So Jackie Gleason, one thing's true about this.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: He became obsessed with UFOs. That is true.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: And it'd be hard not to after something like that.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: There's definitely a catalyst.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: I'm mad. I mean, fucking dude, right now someone took me.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: If Trump called me up, let's see some shit. And
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden I'm standing in front of some
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: craft that's made of this unknown alloy. And especially some
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: of the weirder stories where you have a craft that's
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: like 40 feet wide. You go inside of it, it's
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: bigger than a football field.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: That's wild.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: So here it is. Nixon arranged for him to visit
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: Homestead Air Force Base in Florida. Upon his arrival... Armed
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: guards took Gleason to a building at a remote location
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: on the site. There, Gleason, who harbored an intense interest
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: in UFOs, saw the embalmed bodies of four alien beings,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: two feet long with small bald heads and big ears.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: He was told nothing about the circumstances of their recovery.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: He swore his wife to secrecy, but after the divorce,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: Beverly freely discussed the story. In the mid-' 80s, UFO ufologist
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: Larry Bryant sued the U.S. government to get it to
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: reveal its UFO secrets. He tried without success to subpoena Gleason. Wow,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: he wanted to subpoena Gleason. Yo, that's crazy.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, he could just plead the fifth the whole time.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I was drunk. I don't remember anything.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how would you know? But Gleason built
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: a house in upstate New York.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: I heard about that. That looks like a UFO. Right.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: Isn't it for sale right now?
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: It is right now. Yeah. We thought about buying it.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: I looked that up one time. I don't remember why,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: but it's kind of Kind of cool, I guess.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of cool, but the problem is if
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: we bought it, everybody would know that that's ours.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, true.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, Joe Rogan's got the UFO house. And then
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: they'd visit and fuck up my vacation.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's always bound to happen.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: I remember... That's the house. Very golden. Look at the house.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, man.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: That's pretty sweet.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: That's fucking crazy.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Something happened. He was... There was a catalyst involved in
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: his interest.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you're friends with Nixon, and this
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: is in the 1960s, and all this stuff is....
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: I saw an interview with Barry Goldwater where he was
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: talking about- That's a fucking dope house, by the way. God.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: Talking about asking some commander general about what's it right, Pat,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: and I guess he just cussed him out. Barry Goldwater. Really?
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: He was like, don't ever fucking ask me that again.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Really?
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: He cussed out Barry Goldwater? Yeah.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think he was ever a candidate for president.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there's people that don't want us to know.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: The big thing going around now is that Dick Cheney
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: was the ringleader of all of this, the deep state,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: the UFO secrets, the gatekeepers.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: Wow, he had to know. Of course.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: That guy had to know. Kissinger, too, probably, like the
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: legacy programs. These are legacy people.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: Well, someone has got to talk, right? But it's like,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: but at to what level? And the idea, here's the
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: really erroneous idea that a lot of people hold. People
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: can't keep a secret. Of course they can. Of course
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: they can.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: Especially when their life's being threatened.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course they can. Especially if, I mean, there
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: are certain programs that if you disclose the existence of
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: this program, it is considered treason. And they are allowed
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: to execute you for that. So you have to take
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: that into consideration.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: I would keep a secret if that was the case.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: Of course. Then you have to take into consideration the
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: immense amount of money, and this was discussed really very
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: comprehensively in the Age of Disclosure documentary. I think they
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: did a great job of highlighting the whole problem with
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: the misappropriation of funds. So someone had a lie to Congress.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: If they have these back engineering programs, if they've been
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: spending as much as a trillion dollars over the course
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: of X amount of years, where's that money and who
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: lied and who benefited from it? What military contractors were
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: allowed to have this stuff to back engineer it? What
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: process has taken place to shield the American public from that?
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: And what profits have they made from that that made
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: them much more anti-competition against other military contractors.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: Who didn't have access to it? Which is another reason
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: to keep the secret, too. It's not just you might
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: get killed, but there's a lot of profit potential in this,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: and we don't want our competitors to have that.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: A lot of fraud, I'm sure.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: Like with any, no oversight at all and a shitload
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: of money. Black money. Oh my God. There's not a
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: chance in hell that there wasn't some money that went
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: into people's pockets.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: Human nature takes over and people are like, well, I
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: could just keep some of that.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: Nobody's watching the till.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, we're finding that with things just
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: like Black Lives Matter. It was massive fraud. Like just like,
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: just nonprofit organizations. Oh yeah.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: Like I don't, I don't want to start shitting on
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: NGOs or anything, but. That's a big reason why I
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: don't give money to... I'll find smaller organizations doing things
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: on a local level, but... Yeah, local level stuff you
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: can trust. Yeah, absolutely. You get big enough, it's just...
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: That happens.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: And of course, if you're talking trillions of dollars, black
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: money that nobody's tracing... And I mean, that was one
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: of David Grush's arguments too, is that these whistleblowers are
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: exposing crimes, you know? Fraud, potential murder that happened to
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: keep these secrets.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a complex, it's a very nuanced situation that will...
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: we will have to move past if we are going
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: to have disclosure in some capacity, however that happens. I mean,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: amnesty has been talked about for some people. That was
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: in the documentary. That was the road out of this,
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: which totally makes sense to me. Like, what is really important?
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: The fraud has already taken place. If people are prosecuted
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: for the fraud, guess what? If we don't release it,
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: they'll never be prosecuted for the fraud anyway.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: And what's the alternative? We wait until they die and
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: then talk about it? I would rather just give them
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: amnesty now and then let them die without these secrets
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: going to their deathbed with them.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: But just not only that, if they're misappropriating funds, they're
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: not just doing it 30 years ago. They're doing it
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: last week. So now the current people also have an
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: incentive to not disclose.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: Unless you have mass amnesty to say, listen, let's just
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: forget about all this stuff. Then the problem with that
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: is all those people that are profiting off of it
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: right now and also funneling money into whatever NGOs they
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: have and misappropriation of money and embezzlement.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: What do we do with that IP too? Like the
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: intellectual property that say Northrop Grumman or whoever has, Boeing,
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: like do we share that now? Do they have to
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: give that up and spread it across the industry?
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's all weird, man. It's very weird because there's
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: been a few inventions that, came about after Roswell that
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of people say, like, this does not make
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: any sense. Yeah, fiber optics is one. Transistor is another one.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of weirdness. People say, oh, there's a
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: direct scientific research that shows how they made it. Yeah,
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: but there's not. If you go into it, it's like
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: there's a giant leap that gets made that's real weird.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll take more leaps, man. Like, honestly, these
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: craft are being powered by something that's very, very energized,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: you know? Yeah. And if we could use that to...
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I pay a lot in utilities bills. I
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: was going to talk about like climate change or some shit.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: And then I made about myself and my utilities bills.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: You could have your own zero point energy generator in
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: your backyard. Never have to worry about power again.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: Never have to worry about the grid. Keep the heat
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: at like 90, you know, as many Christmas lights as
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: I want.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Never worry about the grid. The grid doesn't exist anymore.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: Doesn't exist. I mean, imagine that. Infrastructure level. And there's
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: so many implications.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: If it's real.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: If it's real.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: If you think it's real. Right. You're convinced.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: I'm convinced it is, yeah. I mean, it makes sense.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: There's so much energy trapped within the space between, you know?
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: That's what it is. Even at zero degrees, it's still energized.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Try to explain, if you can, try to explain the
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: concept of zero point energy. Man, that's beyond my pay grade.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: Other than that, I know that it is.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: Infinitely times more energetic than what you get when you
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: split an atom or fuse atoms together, the nuclear force.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: My understanding, again, very limited knowledge, is that even when
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: you take a molecule, a particle, whatever, and you freeze
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: it down to zero degrees, there's still energy inside of that.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: And there's energy at a sub-quantum level that if we
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: could tap into that, it would provide infinite energy The
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: downside is it would also make a bomb that is much,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: much more powerful than the biggest hydrogen bomb because you're
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: releasing that energy in a way that's irresponsible. There's this
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: quote going around by E.O. Wilson, a famed biologist on,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: I think I saw it on Twitter, that was like,
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: we have prehistoric emotions... medieval institutions and godlike technology. Basically
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: saying we're fucked.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: Because we've got... We're like little kids playing with chainsaws.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: But zero point.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: Or guns. Little kids playing with guns. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: But zero point's kind of that next thing. Like, when
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: Einstein equals MC squared, you know, there's all this energy
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: and mass, and if we split these atoms, combine these atoms,
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: we can release that energy. Sweet.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: But.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people died in Japan, you know?
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: So what's the flip side of zero point? Like, it
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: would definitely unlock a lot of potential, but are we
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: responsible enough as a species to handle that type of energy?
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: Right. Currently, no. E.O.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: Wilson says no, and I'm on board with anything he says.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm on board with it. Just look at what's
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: happening in Ukraine. Look at what's happening in Gaza. Yeah,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: Gaza is so fucking sad. Full-scale war. Scary shit. It's
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: happening right now. In various parts of the world where,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: you know, we're just blowing people to smithereens.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: And you know what? That's kind of an interesting argument
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: about the whole time travel thing. You know, there's these genocides.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: There's a genocide happening now in Gaza. It blows my
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: mind that we can still have genocides and just not
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: do anything about it. But like Pol Pot, you know, three,
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: four million people killed. The Holocaust, Darfur. But these aliens
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: don't seem to care about It was something that John
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: Mack noticed. He wrote about it a lot. They're really
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: focused on the earth. You know, they care about this planet.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: They don't necessarily care about us.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: As individuals.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: As a species. Well, clearly they care as a species.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: But they do kind of care as individuals. The people
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: that get picked up are oftentimes, obviously there's cases where
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: this doesn't happen, but they're cared for. They're told no
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: harm will come to you. You know, Barney Hill was
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: told that. It's a common thing. Commonly repeated thing. So
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: they take care of people. They give us screen memories
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: to try to hide what they did. They sometimes give
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: people tours of the ship. They seemingly care about us
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: as individuals, but not when we start murdering each other
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: on a massive scale. They've never intervened in these things. However,
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: they have demonstrated their ability and willingness to shut down nukes.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: They might intervene if we move to the point where
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: we're not just destroying ourselves, but we're destroying the planet
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: that they may also call home. If they are future humans,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: that whole care for the planet, take care of the planet,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: they told the kids in Zimbabwe, they told the kids
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: in Wales during this other incident, they tell these contactees
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: all the time, take care of the planet, take care
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: of the planet, but they don't seem to care about us.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: And it might actually benefit them if we don't screw
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: up this planet, either through nuking ourselves or just all
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: of the other things we do to it because we're
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: kind of parasitic in a way.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: Well, also, if they are us in the future, we
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: probably have to go through all this to realize the
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: folly of our ways.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. Dark night of the soul, kind of.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, clearly, we're getting better. I mean, we're
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: still horrible, but we're better today than we were during
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: the Viking days. We're better today than we were during
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: the time of Genghis Khan. We're better. We're more civilized.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: We're more peaceful. There's less war, even though there's still war.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: So it's a slow, gradual shift of consciousness that probably
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: is going to be accelerated by technology, especially if there
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: is some sort of a technology that connects us telepathically
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: and allows people to read minds. One of the things
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: that Elon famously said about his Neuralink, he's like, you're
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: going to be able to talk without words.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a whole section in my first book
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: about that. The question of whether it's a technology-mediated brain-to-brain
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: communication or if there's something about our consciousness that allows
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: us to communicate telepathically without some sort of technology. And
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: I kind of, I did that, my friend Jeff Craple
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: pointed this out. He's like, I see why you did that.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: You know, you're like, well, what if it is technology?
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of studies that have shown we
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: can't communicate through some sort of computer medium. But so
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: many people on contactee cases who are spoken to or
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: can speak to the visitors telepathically don't have that there's
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: also all of the research of dean radin at ions
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: and all of his other studies that he's put out
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: that show people have telepathic abilities with very very strong
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: p values statistically showing that we have this ability i
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people have it and just don't
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: realize it But it does seem like we're moving in
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: that direction. Like you were talking about the evolution of consciousness.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: It seems like we're sort of moving to that, whether
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: Neuralink has anything to do with it or any sort
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: of computer-mediated brain-to-brain transmission. I think we're just becoming telepathic
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: and unlocking these abilities that have always sort of lied
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: dormant within us.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've often asked the question, is it one of
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: two things? Is this.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: New emerging aspect of human consciousness or is this an
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: aspect of human consciousness that exists before verbal speech and
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: then verbal speech and then of course the written word
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: video all that stuff yeah we it just became completely
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: non-useful to us.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: It's like we lost it and we're trying to get
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: it back.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: It atrophied.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you had Kai Dickens on. The telepathy
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: tapes were hugely impactful. And a lot of those episodes
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: show that this is actually extremely common, you know? And
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: it seems like that's kind of where we're going. I
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: look at that as another indication that these are us
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: in the future, that their main form of communication is telepathy.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: And we're already seemingly moving in that direction.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: What do you make of the tridactyl mummies in Peru?
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: Can we pee first?
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: I'll do that right now. Sweet. We'll be right back, folks.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: Go to Jay Anderson's X page. It's Project Unity.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw he's coming on soon.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Jay Anderson just released this, and Jesse Michaels
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: actually went down to Peru and actually saw those things
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: and handled them in person. And he said it was
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: fucking surreal. He said they are real creatures. Whatever they were,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: it is a real thing. And they look exactly like
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: an alien. He has a video that he just released, Jamie.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's a video that he's released on– that's
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: it right there. So scans reveal this ancient alien-looking mummy
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: has a baby inside of her. Well, that's one of them.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: So these things. Like, whatever this is. Can we hit
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: volume so you can hear what he's saying?
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 3: She has slightly smaller stature and slighter build than Maria,
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 3: but shares the same natural mummification with skin covering parts
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 3: of the body. Her skull is elongated with large eye
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: orbits and cranial volume comparable to Maria's. Importantly, Montserrat CT
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: scans reveal that she was carrying, in her abdominal cavity,
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 3: the team identified a developing fetal form being visible on
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 3: the scans. A tiny... This confirms that Montserrat was pregnant
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: with at least one advanced fetus. Montserrat also contains an
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 3: astonishing array of metallic implants, at least 10 distinct metal
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: implants embedded into her body. These include four small round
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: implants in her skull, two on each side. several in
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 3: her chest and thoracic area, and others along her arm
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 3: and leg bones as per the CT images. They're described
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: as very dense and made of rare metals, osmium and gold. Additionally,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: Montserrat's chest anatomy is peculiar. She has an expanded ribcage
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: without a sternum, like the other tridactyls, and an interclavicle bone,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: an extra bone at the shoulder girdle. Noted by researchers,
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 3: her spine is continuous into the skull, again demonstrating this.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 3: cranioservical canal.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: Montserrat has been one of the most.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: Deeply analyzed specimens. High resolution 128 slice CT scans were
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 3: performed and a full 3D virtual autopsy was conducted. The
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 3: scans confirmed Montserrat's pregnancy with tridactyl features.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: How strange is this? Like what is that? And these
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: are in Peru, the same place where you get the
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: Nazca lines, the same place where you have Saxo-Humon, you
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: have these incredible structures that defy logic, defy conventional construction methods.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like the Owlman, you know, the big petroglyph
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: on the side of the hill that will only be
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: appreciated from space.
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of weirdness. There's a lot of weirdness
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: from Peru. Peru seems like a very extraordinary place. And
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: at one point in time, well, also the ancient... artistic
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: depictions of these exact beings. There's these ancient tapestries and
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: ancient art pieces that show these three fingered, three toed beings.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: And this is all like a part of their folklore.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: And then you have these actual creatures like that thing
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: is 1400 years old, I think it is. So if
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: that's the carbon date on that mummy, so I think
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: it's that old. There's one that's 1,200, and I think
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: the oldest one is like 1,400.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: That sounds right, yeah.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: Something like that. But whatever that is, there's not a
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: chance in fucking hell that people back then had the
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: ability to fake that. And with that depth, you see
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 2: tendon structures, ligaments, you have a completely different skeletal structure,
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: no sternum, different clavicle bones. It's fucking weird.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: Craniofacial anatomy.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: Three fingers, three toes, which is, by the way, exactly
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: what Lazar described, I believe, or some people have described
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: as like, The control– it might not be Lazar. The
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: controls inside the crass that they've observed that had these
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: three-fingered things. Varginha, Brazil, those things had three fingers and
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: three toes.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: So the question is– Yeah, and they saw footprints too
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: in that case, didn't they?
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they– supposedly one of the soldiers carried a
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: hurt and injured whatever it is. Yeah.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: There were three women that saw it too like in
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: an alley or something.
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the Moment of Contact documentary. Very good. Very
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: good James Fox documentary. It is.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: I watched that with James Fox.
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: Before we released it, we were at the same conference.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: Crazy documentary.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good.
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: But those things look exactly like that. Yeah, the way
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: they're described.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: It would be cool if they still had eyeballs because
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: they said they had red eyes. and that daco, which
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: would be kind of crazy.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: Whatever these things are, they are the same size and
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: the same shape. And they're also that thing, that tridactyl thing.
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: What does it look like? It looks exactly like a gray.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: It's small. It has a big head. It has big eyes.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: It's very thin, thin body. Like when you look at
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: its body, when it's curled up in the fetal position,
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: it's no muscle. It's very small.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: There's definitely, I mean, there's variation within the way these
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: things are described. Unfortunately, until we have, like, you know,
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: Dude got to go with Nixon to see these things
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: in liquid. That's like a wet dream of mine, man.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: I would love to go see these things and like
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: study them. As a biological anthropologist, that would be the
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: holy grail for me.
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: Do you imagine there's somewhere that you could go right
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: now on Earth if you knew the right guy that
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: you see that?
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's many, many examples of these things. I
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: would argue in multiple places that I'm not allowed to
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: go see and it makes me mad.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: But what is your take when you see these things? Right.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: So I've always been outwardly critical of them, except I
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: guess the question is which ones and what do we
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: mean by real? Like these are obviously real. These are
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: things that aren't a fairytale story. I mean, they make
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: their way into the lore, so we do have to
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: take that in the same way that these ancient stories
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: about things that are very similar to the UFO phenomenon.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: But this is an actual physical moment.
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. This isn't make-believe.
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: This is a real thing. I have been highly critical.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: Of the little ones. Oh, yeah. There's some fake ones. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: But when I first started talking about these, those were
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: conventionally understood to be real, too.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: I got a lot of shit for that. I actually
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: retired from the mummy thing. I'm happy to come out
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: of retirement for you, Joe. But I retired from the
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: mummy thing because I was getting trolled so hard, so aggressively.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm out.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: I don't give a shit.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: By people that thought they were real.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: But they look fake. The difference between those.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: See, we all say that now. We weren't saying that
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: even three or four years ago.
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, I definitely was.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You look at them. It's very obvious. But a
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: lot of people are like, no, no, these are so real.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: Those are the people that still believe in Bigfoot. They're
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: animal bones.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: And that's why I have to sort of approach this
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: cautiously because I will admit scientists don't do this enough.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: I will admit I haven't looked into those. So I
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: don't want to form an opinion about them until I have.
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: I have extensively looked into the small ones. I forget
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: what they're called. They have cute little names and they're
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: little dolls. They're made out of animal bones, human bones,
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: backward llama skulls. They're put together and I've been looking
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: at these long enough that I remember when they were
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: held together by pieces of wire and metal. Like they
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: didn't even try to really hide that. You x-ray them, like, oh,
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, you know? But then we moved away from
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: that to like, oh, they're using better materials to hide
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that they're sticking these together as little dolls.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: And now, fortunately, we've at least moved past to the
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: point where most people are just focusing on these big
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: ones with the fingers and the toes and And the
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: elongated skulls, again, I don't want to speak to those
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: because I haven't looked into it enough. I don't have
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: an informed opinion. But the little dolls, one thing that
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: concerns me that I think is a red flag is
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: that the little dolls that are now conventionally understood to
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: be fake have the same diatomaceous earth characteristics as these.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: And there's also, I think if they really want to
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: prove these are real, do more to highlight the provenience
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: of them. In archaeology, the way that we understand the
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: way things are related is by doing a massive, as
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, very boring survey of how things are
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: located in three-dimensional space and over time.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: I think there's a problem with that is that some
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: of these people have lied about where they got them
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: because they're essentially grave robbing.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: They're grave robbing.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: And that's a big problem and an ethical issue that
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: needs to be addressed too. But so like as an example,
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: the Rising Star Cave, Homo Naledi, they did. Lee Berger,
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: who's actually, I guess, my academic brother, because we had
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: the same PhD advisor. He was at Ohio State when
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: he was my advisor, and he was at Johannesburg, University
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: of East Rogers Rand, in Johannesburg for him. But this
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: Rising Star Cave, very meticulously, hard to get to, you know,
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: really hard. He had to lose like 50 pounds to
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: even get down in here to see his own site.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: But they map it out, they study where everything is,
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: where it comes from, and they publicly release that information. Yeah,
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: like this is extremely hard to get into. But we
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: have a very deep knowledge of the provenience of all
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: of the artifacts and the features and the remains at
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: this site. We're not getting that with these mummies. And
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: that troubles me with the issue of the diatomaceous earth
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: being painted on. And it kind of makes it seem
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: like they did these slits in the eyes on purpose. Yeah.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: To the mummies?
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: Doesn't that seem like they kind of went like this
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: with like.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: A pen or something? Let me see it again. Can
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: I see some images of them? Yeah.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the bigger ones.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: I never saw that. It didn't seem like that to me.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: It seemed like... There's a little slit. That's their eyelids closed.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they wouldn't have eyelids, would they?
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: Well, how do we know that?
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you take off the diatomaceous earth and you see,
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: Right, but why would we think they don't have eyelids?
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, I'm saying that maybe they do when they
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: were alive.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we see grays or what people describe
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: as grays, but these seem a little bit different than
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: what people describe as grays. It seems like.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: There's definitely intentional cranial modification. You think so? They have
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: all the telltale signs of... So actually one of my
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: questions on my.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: General six answers. It's not possible that they have a
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 2: totally different designed skull? Oh, yeah.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: If they are some sort of extraterrestrial, absolutely. But I'm
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: saying like when, and this happens all over the world
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: and it happened in that region of Peru too, that
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: they were manipulating children's skulls. The Maya did it.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: Unique fingerprints. Look at that. Yeah.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't have an opinion about these.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: But here's the question about the modification of skulls. Were
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: they modifying skulls to try to emulate these people? These things.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: That's the question.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: That's one of the actual scientific explanations for it. There's
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: this paper by Geertsen and Geertsen from 1995 where they
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: interviewed people, said, why are you doing this? Because they
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: were still doing it long enough into modern times that
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: we could ask them, we could interview them. And one
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: of the reasons is because the gods instructed them to
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: do this. Who are the gods? You know, again, this
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: comes back to that. And what is the end result
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: of this intentional cranial modification is that they have the larger,
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: more gray alien type skull. So, yeah, I would absolutely
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: agree that that's probably a part of it. I don't
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: have an opinion about the big ones. The little ones
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: pissed me off. And then everybody pissed me off more
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: when I told them they were bullshit.
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: We should show people images of the little ones.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: For context.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: Because they do look so fake. Yeah.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: And they brought these out at that. You know, Mexican Congress.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: And the guy who brought it out had been hoaxing
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: with other things, right? Didn't he have a history? I mean,
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: the song. She's got a little dress on. Yeah.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: And these are an extreme version. There's some other ones that.
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: Look a little better. Yeah. But they do look fake.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: When I look at that, I'm not interested in that. Exactly.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: And that's what I was calling out back, you know,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: five years.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: Go back down a little bit, Jamie. Below the tridactyl
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: till you get to that one right there. Like the
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: one next to your cursor. To the right, yeah. That
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 2: looks so rigid and stiff and fake.
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: That's one of them.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: Like, why is it so straight and flat? Like, that
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. Why is its shoulders built like...
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: That looks fake as fuck. That looks like a doll.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: There's issues. But the tridactyls... Now, click an image on
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: one of the tridactyls.
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, these were called tridactyls, too. That's why I was.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: Right, but look at that thing. That's weird.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: That has an anatomy that's much more consistent with a
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: living thing.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: One of the criticisms was that these things couldn't move. Like,
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: that little doll with the straight ribcage... Like the legs,
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: which we can identify as specific animals, they're like flipped around.
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: They're just stuck together. Like these things couldn't walk. There's
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: a form follows function aspect of these that just doesn't
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: make any sense. And the list goes on. I actually,
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: in that crypto terrestrial paper where we broke in and
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: ate all the mushrooms, I actually published a critique of
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: these things in that paper.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: But just talking about these little ones.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: I think those little ones were people trying to make
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: copies of those things. Because they were probably selling them
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: to wealthy investors or wealthy enthusiasts. Because if one of
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: those things were for sale and some guy from Saudi
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: Arabia was like, I want one in my home. And
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: he gave them $ 100 million. For sure that thing would vanish.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: And then everybody's going to find out and start making more.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: Right. Right. Of course. That's where you make the little
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: stupid fake ones.
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately, that did lead to grave robbing.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: Right. Which is a.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: Crime and really sad. But it is also... It shouldn't
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: desecrate graves.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: For sure. But there's also such a small amount of
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: excavation that it makes you ponder, like, how many of
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: these are there right now that we have not discovered? Like,
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: is it possible that this is one of many that
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: are out there in Peru right now where you can't
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: find them? And also, why Peru? Why Peru? And why
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: the Nazca lines? The Nazca lines are absolutely fascinating. It's
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: artwork that you could only see from the sky. Like
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: what motivation to people a thousand plus years ago at
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: least have to make artwork that you can only see
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: from the sky? Yeah.
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: And especially if you, I mean, the obvious thing would
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: be that they're trying to get these advanced beings that
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: make them come. come down from the sky and like
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: interact with them again. You know, like who wouldn't? A
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: lot of contactees are really upset about what happens. Willie
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: Streber is a great example. This goes for a lot
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: of people, but he felt violated. He felt raped the
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: first time. And then over time he missed them and
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: wanted them to come back. And that's what we find
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: over and over. One of the best resources currently is
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: the Dr. Edgar Mitchell Free Study that interviewed thousands of
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: contactees and abductees. And there's these common themes across these
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: different cases. And one of them is that people, 85%
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: of people who interacted with a more human-like entity enjoy
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: their experience. And that's another thing that we have to
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: combat with the stigma and this forced shame that comes
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 1: with talking about this. And what has happened in TV
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: and movies over the years is that we have this
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: sense that abductions are horrifying and everyone's picked up and
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: probed and hurt. And that does happen. But most people,
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: based on what contactees actually say, It was a benign
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: or enjoyable experience.
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: Well, they're probably terrified because it's so strange. It probably
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: freaks you out.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: It's the ontological shock aspect.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, it has to be beyond.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: But then what they also found is that with repeated contact,
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: once that ontological shock goes away, it's like, whoa, that
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: was kind of cool actually. I wish I could have
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: more of that.
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: That makes sense.
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: And then people come to enjoy it.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. You know, I talked about this on
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: Jesse Michael's show, and I talked about it here. I
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: had a very strange dream.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: That was a great interview, by the way.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It was cool. I love Jesse. He's awesome.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's awesome.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: And he's the best.
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about your dream, too, by the way?
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: That's what I was just going to talk about.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, no shit.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I said I talked about it on Jesse,
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: and I talked about it here. That dream was the
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: most realistic dream I've ever had in my life. It
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 2: is a problem, and that dream was a couple months
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: ago now. And I think any recounting of that dream
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: is essentially me recounting my recounting of the dream. It
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: gets weird. Um, but what I do remember was it
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: was the most vivid dream I have ever had in
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: my life and that I could not go back to sleep,
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 2: which is really rare. I am, I am a good sleeper. I, I'm,
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: I'm always go, go, go. And by the time it's
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: time to go to bed, I fucking crash. I'm, I'm easy.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: So for me to not be able to go back
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: to sleep was so straight. I mean, wide awake, just
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: lying in bed. I mean, fully awake for an hour.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: And waiting for it to dissipate. And I'm like, this
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: isn't going away. I'm just going to go work out.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: So I just went to the gym and just tried
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: to think about what just happened. Why was that so real?
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 2: One of the things about it was they were shocking
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: me and then laughing. They were trying to relax me.
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: They were trying to get me to, at least my
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: perception of it in the dream, was they were trying
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 2: to get me to calm down from the shock of
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: interacting with these things that aren't human. They were human-like.
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: They almost seemed like their skin coloration was like us,
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: but maybe a little more tan. Not tan, but like
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: a yellow. Yeah, more yellow than tan. And they had,
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: it looked like clothing, but the clothing was the same
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: color as their skin. But the clothing wasn't distinctive. It
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: was almost like a rash guard. that they were wearing,
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: and they were very slender.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: What's a rash guard?
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: A rash guard is like what surfers wear. It's like
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: a stretchy material that's skin tight that goes on your body,
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: and it keeps you from getting scratched up by stuff.
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: It keeps you from getting rashes. You wear it on
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: your legs. You ever see surfers do it? Jiu-jitsu guys
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: wear it when they roll. We wear rash guards. So
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: show them what a rash guard looks like.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: And they had a whole suit of that?
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: That's what it looks like. So that's a jacked guy
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: with a rash guard on. These things were not jacked
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: and there was no creases. There was no lines that
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: indicated that it was cloth.
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: But they had a humanoid form, like arms.
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: Legs, head, face. Yes, but very thin. Very thin. Like
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: Michael Jackson-like. Like super slender, like genderless.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: Late Michael Jackson.
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: Genderless Michael Jackson. Like the old days when he, you know.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: Toward the end.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: Just really thin. Yeah. Like really thin and I had
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: no sense of what, they felt like men to me.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was because of the way they were joking
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: with me. They were like, ah!
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: And they were like, yeah!
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 2: Just joking around.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: Which is a very male thing. You wouldn't expect a
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: nurturing female.
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe a fun chick. Yeah. Like, woo! But whatever it was,
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: they were talking to me without talking to me. And
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: there was some sort of communication that I was trying
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: to absorb where they were telling me to relax. Telepathically? Yes.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: Were they moving their mouths?
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: No, they weren't moving their mouths, but they were able
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: to smile at me. Which is what they did when
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: they– but I don't even really remember teeth. I just
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: remember it being so weird. So weird that them scaring
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: me and going, ah, just walking around, was like– I'm like,
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: I got it. I was like, okay, I get it.
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 2: You want me to calm down? And then they were
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: telling me, just relax. Just relax and try to take
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: this in. And it didn't last for very long, I
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: don't think. Dreams are hard to decide for.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: But after that, when they were saying take this in,
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: were they talking about being there in the environment or
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: were they communicating something? I got the distinct.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: Impression that this was a first meeting. that's what it
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: felt like maybe we'll see you again maybe we won't
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: but I want to let you know if you wanted
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: to introduce someone to a life form from somewhere else
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: and you wanted them to have prolonged exposure to it
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: I would imagine you'd want to do it briefly and
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: shockingly where it felt really weird And then at the
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: end of it, they're not even sure if it really
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: happened at all. And then slowly, over a long period
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: of time, when the person gets to adapt and they
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: make a decision, it's time.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: It's just like what we were talking about with the
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: ontological shock. Get past that.
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: And then you can move on with whatever is.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: Supposed to come from that. Because it was very brief. Very,
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: very shocking and very brief.
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, was it though? Because when you're in
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: a dream state. time and space kind of get manipulated
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: anyway isn't it possible that you are actually interacting for
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: a longer time or do you mean just from like
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 1: start to finish was like here we are I'm gonna
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: fuck with you for a little bit and then.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: It's over well that's what it felt like when I
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: woke up so when I woke up it felt like
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: it happened so quickly and then it was over but
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know you know I don't know I mean
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 2: I was asleep for it was like 3 in the
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: morning so I was probably asleep for I probably went
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 2: to bed at like 11 something like that so I
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: wasn't asleep for very long Um, maybe I went to
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: bed a little later. I don't remember. But what I
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: do remember was the shock of it was, it was
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: different than any other dream I'd ever had. Where it
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: was like, like, this is, this is a real thing.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: And it, I was in a corridor and the corridor
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 2: was weirdly lit, like not lit in any way. Like, oh,
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 2: there's a light and the light is casting light. It
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 2: was like the, it was weird.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: The walls and ceilings.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: But it was, it felt not normal. It felt like
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: some completely different way of lighting things.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I will mention just from doing a bunch
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: of research on this that one of the most commonly
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: described things about people being in UFOs is the light.
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: They describe the light emanating from the walls, the ceiling,
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: everywhere without like a point of light. Did it feel
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: like that?
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But it almost.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: Was there a curvature to the hallway at all?
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 2: There was. It almost had, like, an organic aspect to it.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: People say that about UFOs, too.
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: That almost seems like a living entity unto itself.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean organic, like, almost like I was
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 2: in a cave or something like that. It was a
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 2: part of Earth. It was weird. It was really weird.
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: And it was really vivid. Like, the beings were very vivid.
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 2: I can't remember how many of them there were. I
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: don't think you should. I think there was three or four.
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think you should write it off as just
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: a dream.
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: Well, most likely it was just a dream because I
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: was sleeping.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: But what is just a dream?
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 2: That's the question. That's where it gets weird.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: I have come to think that that is almost the
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 1: baseline real reality more than this.
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry. That's kind of why I wanted to talk
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, you just cracked me. Well, maybe.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 1: So I had a really insane experience in 2022. That
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: forced me to start thinking about what this is. What
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 1: this physical reality is. Because I was shown.
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 2: What was 2022?
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 1: I call it a mini abduction. I was taken up.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: I was at a UFO conference. Actually the same one
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: where I was watching that with James Fox before it
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: came out. The Virginia case. So I was taken up
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: to this room that no one was in. I was
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 1: taken on the balcony. I wasn't allowed to leave. By who?
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: A woman who I knew.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 5: But.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: Loosely, basically I was downstairs. She saw, or they saw
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: through her. Cause this gets really weird that I was
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: out of money. I was trying to get a beer
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: at the bar for like 12 bucks or whatever. They
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 1: charge you with these things. It was, it was a
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: Halloween dance party. This was October 14th, 2022. I was
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 1: out of money. She comes up and says, Hey, I
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: have a key to the VIP room. We had just
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: come down from there where they hosted a meet and
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: greet with the speakers. I was one of the speakers.
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: So we went up there to get beers, stuff in
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: my pockets. We're going to bring some to our friends.
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: They didn't have to pay $ 12 for a beer. And
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: then she's like, well, you can't go. My friend Eric
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 1: wants to talk to you. I was like, who's Eric?
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 2: Don't worry.
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: You'll like him. Just kept saying that over and over.
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: Don't worry.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: You'll like him. You'll like him. So at some point
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: we end up on the balcony and I'm just sitting there.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 1: I give up. I'm like, fine. I guess I'm just
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 1: waiting for this Eric guy, whoever the hell that is.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: So eventually Eric comes in, pulls his chair up right
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: into me. Like his knee is in my dick, like
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: straight up right here. I start to get that. I'm
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: very much fight and the fight or flight thing. And
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, like, who the fuck's this guy?
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: Total stranger. Never seen him in my life. And his
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: face is right here. He says, I sense that you're
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: angry about this, but I need to be this close
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: for this to work. And then it just all went away.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: Perfectly fine. And they tell me something that was that
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: same thing that they did to you in that dream.
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: Something that they knew would shock me. And make me
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 1: pay attention. So about two weeks before this, I had
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: been washing dishes, and I just decided I wanted to
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 1: quit all of this. I was sick of doing TV
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: shoots and podcasts. I was exhausted and wanted to be
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: home with my family.
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: That was it.
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: That was just a thought.
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 2: Just while you were washing dishes?
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: Washing dishes. My wife's right behind me. I didn't tell
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: her anything. The very next thing he says is, we
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 1: know you've been thinking about quitting lately, and we'd really
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: prefer you not do that yet. Complete stranger. I'd never
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 1: seen this guy in my life. And he knows a
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: thought in my head.
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 2: That you had while washing dishes.
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 1: From two weeks ago.
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 2: Privately.
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: And my, I was just like, how could you possibly
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 1: know that? And they said, I'm going to use they
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: because they used they. I wasn't talking to this guy.
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: I was talking through some sort of entity or entities
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 1: through him. And they said, once you know who we are,
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: you'll know how we know that. And I never had
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: a telepathic moment in my life. But I thought future humans,
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: that's all I could come up with because like this
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: is what I'm doing. They didn't answer the question, but
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 1: they did say, so you know how we did that?
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: And I just go, uh-huh. It doesn't fucking answer the question.
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 1: But in that moment, it placated me enough to move on.
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 1: And there was a number of things that transpired. We're
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 1: out on this balcony. I'm in shock. I'm like, what
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 1: the hell is going on here? How does this complete
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 1: stranger know my thoughts? The conversation evolved. I was allowed
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 1: to ask questions. They're like, we know you're frustrated. We
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 1: know you're upset with this. We'd really like you to
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: keep going. Is there anything you need? Is there anything
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 1: we can help with? I was like, no, I'm quite
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 1: happy in general. I'm just exhausted. I don't want to
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 1: do this anymore. Like, yeah, we get that.
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 2: We get that.
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: We get that. And then I was allowed to ask questions.
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 1: I asked three different questions and people started to come
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 1: back to this room because the party was wrapping up
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 1: downstairs and they were starting to come back to the
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 1: VIP room where all the free booze was. So that
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 1: makes sense. And We're out on this balcony. These three
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 1: women come out at one point and this man who
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 1: now is like just right here, like eyes right here.
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 1: I can't move anymore. Like I lost the ability to
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 1: turn my head. I'm just like laser focused. Said, can
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 1: you close the door behind you? That was it. And
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: these three women turned in perfect unison, walked back and
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 1: closed the door. Nobody came out the rest of the
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 1: time we were out there. Eventually got to the point
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 1: where they're like, We came here because we need to
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 1: put three things in your brain for some future time
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 1: or times. I forget which they said. Do we have
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 1: your permission to do that? And over the course of
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 1: this interaction, I started to remember them. And I started
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 1: to feel like a little bitch about complaining about being tired, traveling, hotels, flights,
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 1: you know. And I was like, oh, that's right. I
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 1: know you. I know who you are. Not that guy.
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 1: I've never seen him in my life. But I know
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: you and there's a familiarity there. And this was like
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 1: the breaking down of me to be able to get
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: past that, to do the things that needed to be done.
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: They told me what would happen. They said that I
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: would continue looking, my eyes would be open, but this
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 1: darkness would come from top to bottom and they would
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 1: put things in my brain and I would see it
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 1: coming in, but I wouldn't have access to it once
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 1: they were done. Do you agree? They're very polite, extremely polite.
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 1: Free will was conserved. Do you agree to this? Are
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 1: you okay with this? And again, at that point, I
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 1: remembered them. I recognized them. I was like, yes, absolutely.
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 1: I agree to this. That's exactly what happened. Eyes went dark,
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: still wide open. Eyes went dark, and I see this massive,
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: fast stream of information just going straight into my brain.
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 2: It was exhausting.
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: It didn't hurt, but it was, like, really overwhelming. I
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 1: have no idea how long they were doing this.
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 2: You said you see it going.
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 1: Into your brain? Yeah, I could see. It was like
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 1: I could see... I don't remember it, but I could
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 1: see and understand the moments. And it wasn't just me.
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 1: Like at one point, this conversation switched from being vocal
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 1: to telepathic. Like we just started communicating telepathically. It was
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 1: so seamless that I didn't even really notice it happen.
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 1: And eventually I'm like, wait, we're not moving our mouths.
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 1: We're just talking with our brains. But the woman who
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 1: brought me up there in the first place was standing
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: on my left with her hand on my shoulder. She
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 1: would occasionally go, did you get that? Did you see that?
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 1: That was important. Did you get that? So she was
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 1: watching it too and saw it coming in as it
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 1: was coming through this individual in front of me. And
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 1: I could see it at that moment. I'd be like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 1: Like I understood it. It all comes in. I have
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 1: no idea how long I was in that mesmerized state.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 1: But after they finished, that entire room had five times
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: more people in it. There was like probably 20 people
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 1: in this room. all looking at us like, what the
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: fuck is happening? to masters out there? You know, like
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 1: what is going on? They lifted me out of this
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 1: site return from bottom to top, the opposite of what
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 1: happened before. And I stand up, turn, walk through this room.
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 1: It felt like my head was a bowling ball. Like
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 1: I could barely even lift my head. And this woman,
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 1: I think one of the ones that came out when
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 1: we were on the balcony, put her hand on my shoulder, said,
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: are you okay? I was just like, uh-huh, uh-huh. Walked
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 1: past her. Fortunately, I was on that same floor, on
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 1: the fourth floor of this hotel. Walked down, lay back
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 1: on the bed with my feet still on the floor,
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 1: all my clothes on, and just slept in that position
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: for about 13 hours.
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: What?
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: Didn't wake up at all. And when I woke up,
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 1: I started crying uncontrollably.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 2: Like my.
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 1: I could not stop crying. I wasn't sad. I wasn't scared.
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 1: I had a memory of what happened the night before,
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: but it was kind of fuzzy. And then as it
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 1: started to come back more and more and more, I
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 1: started to be like, oh shit, that was real. My
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 1: first thought was like, oh, that wasn't real. And then
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: I was allowed to remember all of it. Everything before
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: they put me in that state is crystal clear in
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 1: my mind. And I wrote it all down not long
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 1: after that just to make sure I had So it
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't me recounting me recounting like.
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 2: You were saying.
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 1: So there was actually like a written transcript of how
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 1: everything happened.
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 2: I should have probably done that. I should have probably
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 2: done that. But I know that my recollection of it
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 2: is pretty accurate. My recollection, my memory, and I know
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 2: that it was very brief. Like the encounter seemed very brief.
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 2: It might have gone longer than I think it did.
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 1: Well, they might have done the same thing to you.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: That's why I mention it. They might have done the
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 1: same thing where you weren't necessarily– allowed to remember the
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 1: things that were done. Like they told me that we're
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: going to do this. Are you okay with it? And
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 1: then missing time. I have no idea how long they
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 1: were doing that. And then in a dream state, like
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 1: it could have been dreams often skew time regardless, but
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 1: maybe if let's just say, hypothetically, you were on a craft,
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 1: they were breaking you down in the same way they
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 1: did me to try to get you, whether now or
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: in the future, like you said, it might've been an
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 1: initial encounter where there's something more going to happen later.
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 1: But maybe there was more to it that they just
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: didn't let you have conscious memories of. Like they told
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 1: me I wouldn't remember what they put in my brain
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: and I don't.
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 2: Just a second.
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: This is what blows my mind, man. This is fucking insane.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 1: It's my brain.
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 1: They put things in there. The ability that they can
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 1: even do that in the first place is nuts. But
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 1: I don't have access to it. It's really wild.
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: How do you know it's in there then?
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 1: I watched it come in. I know it went in.
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 1: And they told me that it was going to come in.
• 2:30:22
  Speaker 1: And I saw it happen. But then once it's in.
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 2: Right. But does that make any sense? Like, think about it.
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 2: If they're giving you information, what is the point in
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 2: giving someone information that they can't access?
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what they said, though. They said, for a
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 1: time or times in the future. It's time released. It's
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 1: time stamped. At some point, whatever that was that they
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 1: thought was so damn important to mini abduct me at
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 1: this conference, fuck with me for about five months afterwards.
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 1: Is going to come out at some point.
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 2: Have you ever considered the possibility someone dropped acid into
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: your beer?
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have.
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: Because that would be such a cruel thing to do
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 2: to someone at a UFO conference.
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 1: Problem is.
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 2: And then fuck with them and say, sit down, look
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 2: in my eyes. I'm going to give you information now.
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh my God, it's coming. Information's coming.
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 1: It is. Problem is I've done acid over 200 times. So,
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what that's like.
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was a flashback. That's what they say. That
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 2: was the thing they always... I never heard of one
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: fucking person getting a flashback, by the way.
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 2:31:16
  Speaker 1: I feel robbed, dude. Like, I was told we crack
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 1: our back and we're going to get the.
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 2: What if you get a flashback when you drive in
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 2: your car, man, and you fucking run into a bus
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 2: full of kids?
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 1: It's like how they told us everybody was going to
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 1: give us free drugs on the playground.
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 4: Nope.
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 1: Nobody ever gave me free drugs.
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 2: No drugs.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: No, it was not... I'd actually only had two beers
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 1: the entire night. I was completely sober.
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 2: So, it was... some kind of experience that was very anomalous.
• 2:31:40
  Speaker 1: Extremely, yeah. So here's another aspect of it. They knew
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 1: my future. They knew everything about me. They knew my thoughts.
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 1: That's how they broke me down. And they even knew
• 2:31:49
  Speaker 1: where I was going to be the next day. They
• 2:31:51
  Speaker 1: saw that it fucked me up and I was not
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 1: doing well. Like I wasn't crying because I was sad
• 2:31:54
  Speaker 1: or scared or anything. It was just a physiological response
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 1: to whatever they did. I'm walking down through the main
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 1: corridor to give a book to a friend of mine,
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 1: John Dover, Navajo Ranger. And that same guy... Comes around
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 1: the corner, comes down, puts his hand on my shoulder, says,
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 1: are you okay? I was not okay. But I go, uh-huh.
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 1: And they fixed me somehow. His touch on my shoulder
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 1: released all of the whatever was messing me up. They
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 1: knew where I would be at that exact moment for
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 1: him to come there. He wasn't part of this conference.
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 1: He had nothing to do with this. He was used
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 1: as some sort of vessel or some sort of medium
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 1: for this end situation. Whatever it means, I don't know,
• 2:32:37
  Speaker 1: because the things haven't come out of my brain yet.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: But there are timestamps for the future.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 2: I completely believe you.
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 1: It's not a belief. It's not a belief. They did
• 2:32:45
  Speaker 1: it in a way where other people were involved, so
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't even get to pretend.
• 2:32:49
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is I'm saying I believe your story
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 2: from you. I have no information on it, obviously, other
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 2: than you telling me. I believe you. It sounds like
• 2:32:59
  Speaker 2: this is a real experience. But. Most people hearing something
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 2: like this will automatically go, get the fuck out of here.
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 1: And they did.
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 2: But I want those people to imagine what it would
• 2:33:13
  Speaker 2: be like if that happened to you. For me, it's
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 2: easy because mine was in a dream. And I'll tell
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 2: you it's a dream. I think it was a dream.
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 2: It was the most vivid dream I've ever had. But
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 2: it was a dream. It was really weird. I couldn't
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 2: shake it. It really freaked me out. I had to
• 2:33:27
  Speaker 2: talk about it the moment I got on a podcast next.
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is something that I have to
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 2: bring up right away.
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 1: And thank you for doing that, by the way. It
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 1: takes bravery to talk about this.
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 2: But I was talking to Brett Weinstein, who's an evolutionary biologist.
• 2:33:37
  Speaker 2: It's not the topic to talk about. But I'm like,
• 2:33:39
  Speaker 2: I have to tell you this because it was one
• 2:33:42
  Speaker 2: of the weirdest things. I've experienced a lot of weird shit.
• 2:33:45
  Speaker 2: I've had a weird life. That was the weirdest. It
• 2:33:49
  Speaker 2: was weird.
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 1: It took me a year to talk about this. I
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 1: went down.
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 2: Let me finish here.
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, sorry. I didn't know who you were.
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 2: This is what I, for people that are very skeptical,
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 2: I want you to imagine yourself in a position where
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 2: something like this happens to you. You're a regular guy.
• 2:34:06
  Speaker 2: You're a mechanic for Chevrolet, whatever you are. And this
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 2: thing happens to you. And what do you do now?
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 2: What do you do with this? And who the fuck
• 2:34:16
  Speaker 2: is going to believe you? You wouldn't have believed you.
• 2:34:18
  Speaker 2: So why would you? You don't even want to tell people.
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 2: It's that crazy. And if these things are happening, they're
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 2: not happening to 7 billion people, right? They're happening to
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 2: select individuals for whatever unknown reason all over the place.
• 2:34:36
  Speaker 2: And if that is happening to one in a million,
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 2: one in 100,000, whatever it is, over time, these people
• 2:34:43
  Speaker 2: have all of these similar stories. I get being skeptical.
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 2: I get it. I'm a skeptical person with a lot
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 2: of stuff. I go back and forth. I'm a believer.
• 2:34:54
  Speaker 2: And then I'm like, shut up. I'm with you. I'm
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 2: with you. But you got to imagine what you would
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 2: do if that happened to you. If these are unique experiences.
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 1: That's a great point.
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 2: Unique experiences, totally novel experiences that most people don't have.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 2: Trying to describe them and everybody who I've ever talked to,
• 2:35:15
  Speaker 2: including Travis Walton, who's, by the way, very believable.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 2: Very believable. The way they describe it, it has that
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 2: weight to it. Like, I know no one's going to
• 2:35:27
  Speaker 2: fucking believe me. I know this is crazy, but I
• 2:35:29
  Speaker 2: have to tell you. I have to tell you that
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 2: this happened. Imagine being Travis Walton. Yeah. That's what I
• 2:35:33
  Speaker 2: want people to think about, the people that are very skeptical.
• 2:35:36
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad you brought that up because a lot
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: of people– don't think about that part, how hard it is,
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 1: not just to have some crazy shit like that happen,
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 1: but how hard it is to then talk about it
• 2:35:47
  Speaker 1: and subject yourself to the ridicule and the scorn that
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 1: comes with it.
• 2:35:51
  Speaker 2: Of course. And the possibility that you might just be
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 2: some different disinformation artists, just some bullshit artists that's sent
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 2: down here to muddy up the narrative.
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. And if it hadn't, if I hadn't, yeah,
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 1: I don't, I have thought about that. Like, what if,
• 2:36:06
  Speaker 1: you know, there's some sort of mind control thing that
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 1: the government, has or whatever.
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 2: Have you ever heard the recordings of Betty and Barney Hill?
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Jamie, see if you can find those. Yeah.
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 1: They're kind of trippy.
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 2: Trippy.
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case in this situation because
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 1: of the way it happened, how it happened, their uber
• 2:36:26
  Speaker 1: politeness and the fact that I was allowed to leave
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 1: my body and see and remember things that I normally wouldn't.
• 2:36:33
  Speaker 2: Well, also take it in the context of who you are,
• 2:36:36
  Speaker 2: the time we live in, Betty and Barney Hill, I
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 2: believe it was in the 1950s. They're an interracial couple
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 2: in New England. So they have a lot of anxiety
• 2:36:44
  Speaker 2: just on that. Imagine being a pioneering interracial couple in
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 2: the 1950s. I mean, the fucking racism they must have experienced.
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 2: So the level of anxiety that they must have slept
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 2: with thinking the KKK is going to show up at
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 2: any point in time and burn a fucking cross on
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 2: their lawn. So you've got all that too. Then there's
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 2: a completely novel experience. Yeah. where no one has talked
• 2:37:05
  Speaker 2: about this before.
• 2:37:05
  Speaker 1: They were two of the first people to ever.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 2: Talk about it. They are the OGs. So this is
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: a tape of Dr. Benjamin Simon and patient Barney Hill.
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 2: Play this.
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 1: It's right over my right.
• 2:37:19
  Speaker 2: God.
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 4: What is it? And I try to maintain control so
• 2:37:38
  Speaker 4: Betty cannot tell I am scared.
• 2:37:43
  Speaker 5: God, I'm scared.
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 2: It's all right.
• 2:37:46
  Speaker 4: You can go right on. Experience it.
• 2:37:49
  Speaker 1: It will not hurt you now.
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 4: I've got to.
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 2: Get my.
• 2:37:59
  Speaker 1: Gun.
• 2:37:59
  Speaker 2: I've got to.
• 2:38:03
  Speaker 1: Get my gun.
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 2: All right. That's intense. This is 1961.
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 1: Wild. And like you say, I haven't thought about that.
• 2:38:12
  Speaker 1: I did a whole case study on Betty and Barney
• 2:38:14
  Speaker 1: Hill in my second book. I hadn't even really thought
• 2:38:17
  Speaker 1: about that. It's already hard to talk about stuff. They
• 2:38:20
  Speaker 1: were the OGs. They're the first one. Interracial couple coming
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 1: out publicly describing these horrific events.
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 2: Also, these events in 1961 when no one had heard
• 2:38:29
  Speaker 2: anything about that before.
• 2:38:30
  Speaker 1: There's so many compounding factors that make me want to
• 2:38:34
  Speaker 1: give them even more credit for being honest about it.
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 1: And I mean, that's what's important. It was really hard
• 2:38:41
  Speaker 1: for me to talk about this. It really fucked me
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 1: up for like, I'm going to say five months, but
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 1: it was way more than that. And the reason I
• 2:38:46
  Speaker 1: bring this up is because of your dream and the
• 2:38:49
  Speaker 1: shock factor and what it means for conceptualizing reality, this
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 1: physical reality versus what we write off as being dreams,
• 2:38:57
  Speaker 1: a dream reality. I have come to think that that
• 2:39:01
  Speaker 1: is baseline, that consciousness is fundamental. It's foundational. And this
• 2:39:06
  Speaker 1: physical reality is built off of it. And I've heard
• 2:39:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of other scientists talking about that lately. So
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: I think one of the questions that gets me is
• 2:39:13
  Speaker 1: why does everything dream?
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 2: Everything.
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 1: Every living organism dreams. And it almost seems like we're
• 2:39:20
  Speaker 1: here for the universe to learn about itself and to
• 2:39:24
  Speaker 1: have these experiences because at source, there's nothing. There's just
• 2:39:27
  Speaker 1: love and energy. That's it. And I've gotten to experience that.
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 1: I was thinking in the shower the other day that
• 2:39:31
  Speaker 1: I feel lucky because I've gotten to have near-death experiences
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 1: without actually dying because it's a very similar thing. And
• 2:39:36
  Speaker 1: I go to that same place that people describe in
• 2:39:38
  Speaker 1: these near-death experiences. That's real. That feels the most real.
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 1: But you don't get to have divorces and people dying
• 2:39:46
  Speaker 1: and car crashes and the shit that makes this life suck.
• 2:39:49
  Speaker 1: But also being the only way that the universe can
• 2:39:52
  Speaker 1: learn about itself. And then every night, what do we do?
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 1: We empty the hippocampus and upload that information. Near-death experiences,
• 2:39:59
  Speaker 1: people describe that review, the life review. So we upload
• 2:40:04
  Speaker 1: it every night. And at the end of your life,
• 2:40:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, upload the whole thing all at once, go
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 1: to a different body, and the next time.
• 2:40:11
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:40:12
  Speaker 1: I think your dream is just as real as anything
• 2:40:14
  Speaker 1: we experience here, if not more real.
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 2: Let's end it with that. Thank you. Thank you, man.
• 2:40:20
  Speaker 2: That was a lot of fun.
• 2:40:21
  Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun. Can I tell you
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 1: one more thing? You can cut this out if you want.
• 2:40:23
  Speaker 2: No, you can leave it in.
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about this lately has been
• 2:40:28
  Speaker 1: how many comedians I get to talk to. I did
• 2:40:32
  Speaker 1: an interview with Mark Gagnon. I did an interview with
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 1: Dave Foley. From back in the day, news radio.
• 2:40:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 1: I grew up watching. That was one of my favorite
• 2:40:42
  Speaker 1: shows back in the day.
• 2:40:43
  Speaker 2: Dave used to make fun of me when I was
• 2:40:44
  Speaker 2: into UFOs back in the news radio days.
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 1: Not anymore, man.
• 2:40:47
  Speaker 2: Not anymore. He's all in. I love it.
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 1: He's super into it.
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 2:40:50
  Speaker 1: No, it's great, man. I don't know. Dan St. Germain,
• 2:40:53
  Speaker 1: Sean O'Donnell. A lot of the people I've been talking
• 2:40:56
  Speaker 1: to lately are comedians. And I actually wanted to ask
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 1: you why. Why are so many comedians... Into this UFO phenomenon.
• 2:41:02
  Speaker 1: I think more than like most other genres or professions.
• 2:41:05
  Speaker 2: Well, most comedians are into interesting things. And comedians don't
• 2:41:08
  Speaker 2: have to worry about the stigma of being thought of
• 2:41:11
  Speaker 2: as a fool. We're professional fools. You know, if someone
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 2: says I'm a moron, I'm like, okay. What do you
• 2:41:18
  Speaker 2: want me to do? This is how smart I am.
• 2:41:20
  Speaker 2: This is how smart I am. I'm exactly this smart.
• 2:41:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not pretending to be any smarter than I am.
• 2:41:25
  Speaker 2: If you think I'm a moron, that's fine. I don't care.
• 2:41:27
  Speaker 2: Like my reputational integrity doesn't depend on whether or not
• 2:41:31
  Speaker 2: I'm an idiot or whether you think I'm an idiot.
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. So if I think something, I can
• 2:41:36
  Speaker 2: just talk about it. So like if my dream, if
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 2: I was a political correspondent and I wanted people to
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 2: believe me, I probably wouldn't tell that dream. I'd probably
• 2:41:44
  Speaker 2: just tell my friends like that was fucking weird. And
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 2: I'd leave it alone. I wouldn't treat it as like
• 2:41:48
  Speaker 2: something that I needed to get out there.
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 1: You have the freedom to tell the story and express it.
• 2:41:53
  Speaker 2: I'm a clown, you know.
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, comedians also are really observant.
• 2:41:57
  Speaker 2: Well, we like interesting things.
• 2:41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you observe those interesting things and can
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 1: talk about them in interesting ways.
• 2:42:02
  Speaker 2: I think most people like interesting things, but most people
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 2: are saddled down by a structure. And that structure could
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 2: be the office politics in the place that you work.
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 2: It could be whatever your cultural or– whatever your political
• 2:42:17
  Speaker 2: ideology is, whatever your thing is, like you get stuck
• 2:42:20
  Speaker 2: in this structure where you have to think about things
• 2:42:23
  Speaker 2: in a very specific way and talk about things in
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 2: a very specific way. Some, some things are shunned in
• 2:42:28
  Speaker 2: the comedy world. Those shun things are ammunition. Like that's,
• 2:42:31
  Speaker 2: that's where our weapons for comedy. Like I want to,
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about things that are fucking weird.
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to talk about the things that
• 2:42:41
  Speaker 2: make you go, oh yeah, I didn't want to say that,
• 2:42:44
  Speaker 2: but I've been thinking the same kind of thing, but
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 2: that might be real. That might be what's going on.
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 2: That is what's discouraged in polite society is encouraged as
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 2: a comedian.
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 2:42:55
  Speaker 2: So that's probably why we all love UFOs.
• 2:42:57
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 2:42:58
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot of us that are skeptical. I've
• 2:43:01
  Speaker 2: had conversations with people that don't believe in any, oh,
• 2:43:03
  Speaker 2: I don't believe in any conspiracies. I'm like, well, that's
• 2:43:05
  Speaker 2: just silly. You're just coddling yourself.
• 2:43:08
  Speaker 1: You know, people only see what they are able to believe.
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 2: They only see what makes them comfortable. Or they try
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 2: to only see what makes them comfortable.
• 2:43:17
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people, I think Nietzsche said that
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 1: people don't want to know the truth because it'll destroy
• 2:43:20
  Speaker 1: their comfortable sense of reality. I totally bastardized that quote,
• 2:43:23
  Speaker 1: but it's something like that, you know?
• 2:43:25
  Speaker 2: I think that's why people get so paranoid when they
• 2:43:26
  Speaker 2: smoke weed.
• 2:43:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:43:28
  Speaker 2: All the blinders melt away.
• 2:43:30
  Speaker 1: See, I'm a big proponent of the filter theory. You know,
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 1: I think there's all this weirdness all around us all
• 2:43:36
  Speaker 1: the time. And it just takes a little mescaline or
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 1: DMT or psilocybin and it removes that filter and you
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 1: see the world for what it is, which becomes much
• 2:43:45
  Speaker 1: more dreamlike. I really do think that that essence of
• 2:43:48
  Speaker 1: our consciousness is the root of all of this.
• 2:43:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're correct. I think it's the hotline
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 2: to the universe. That's what I think it is. I
• 2:43:56
  Speaker 2: think we're, you know, in order to do this task,
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, my belief is this task is to
• 2:44:01
  Speaker 2: create artificial God. I think that we're in the middle
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 2: of that process right now. I think that's our task.
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of factors that I point to, and
• 2:44:09
  Speaker 2: they make sense. Materialism, why are we so infatuated with materialism?
• 2:44:13
  Speaker 2: Because materialism ensures technological innovation. It ensures that this being
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 2: is going to make better stuff all the time. Well,
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 2: if that being makes better stuff all the time, it's
• 2:44:22
  Speaker 2: not hard to extrapolate. Take this a few years down
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 2: the road. You have an artificial intelligent life force, and
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 2: you have an artificial intelligent life force that has sentience
• 2:44:32
  Speaker 2: and creativity And is capable of making a far better
• 2:44:35
  Speaker 2: artificial intelligent life force. Radically quickly. Different kinds of energy sources.
• 2:44:40
  Speaker 2: Before you know it, it's a god.
• 2:44:42
  Speaker 1: We're just the propagators.
• 2:44:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly. We're the bees. We make the hive. We don't
• 2:44:46
  Speaker 2: even know why. I call us the electronic caterpillar. We're
• 2:44:50
  Speaker 2: making this little cocoon. We don't know what the fuck
• 2:44:52
  Speaker 2: we're doing. And we're turning into some sort of a butterfly.
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 2: Some sort of a superior being.
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 1: Following the script.
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 2: I think that might be one of the reasons why
• 2:45:00
  Speaker 2: beings from somewhere else are interested in us. Because they
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 2: recognize there's a process going on. And perhaps this process
• 2:45:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't go on everywhere. Perhaps these beings are embedded with
• 2:45:09
  Speaker 2: a type of consciousness that doesn't allow them to seek
• 2:45:14
  Speaker 2: territorial dominance. They don't ever evolve these kind of primate
• 2:45:18
  Speaker 2: instincts that we're saddled down with. Because of our savage background.
• 2:45:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever watched Chimp Nation on Netflix.
• 2:45:26
  Speaker 2: Amazing fucking incredible docuseries. Can't recommend it enough. These scientists
• 2:45:31
  Speaker 2: were embedded with this chimpanzee pack, I guess, for 20 years.
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 2: So the chimpanzees had completely acclimated to them being around.
• 2:45:40
  Speaker 2: As long as they always stayed 20 yards away, never
• 2:45:43
  Speaker 2: had any food, never look them in the eyes. When
• 2:45:45
  Speaker 2: they approach, back up, get out of there, they leave
• 2:45:47
  Speaker 2: you alone. And so these guys did this for 20
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 2: years and they observed chimpanzee behavior. And it's like fucking people,
• 2:45:52
  Speaker 2: just like way more violent.
• 2:45:54
  Speaker 1: The only other species other than us that's been observed
• 2:45:57
  Speaker 1: going to war.
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 2: Going to war, having these social games with each other. Politics. Yes,
• 2:46:03
  Speaker 2: like grooming each other. Really interesting stuff. So we are
• 2:46:08
  Speaker 2: saddled down with that programming. And even though I think
• 2:46:11
  Speaker 2: if we were genetically engineered, they made a superior version
• 2:46:14
  Speaker 2: of of what we used to be as chimpanzees or
• 2:46:16
  Speaker 2: whatever the cousin of chimpanzee we came from, we're still
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 2: saddled down. Maybe they weren't. So maybe they don't have
• 2:46:22
  Speaker 2: the sensational desire for innovation that leads them to create art.
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're illogical enough to realize we can never make AI.
• 2:46:30
  Speaker 2: AI is a fruitless, it'll remove us. Let's be conscious
• 2:46:35
  Speaker 2: of how we decide we progress forward so that we
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 2: can keep our race. that we're these beings that control
• 2:46:42
  Speaker 2: this planet. We create this digital god. It controls us now.
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 2: We fucked ourselves in a prison of our own design.
• 2:46:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're different than us. Maybe they could recognize that
• 2:46:52
  Speaker 2: and not fall into that, but they realize we're about
• 2:46:54
  Speaker 2: to do it. And they go, well, the primates just
• 2:46:56
  Speaker 2: always do it. The primates always want more fruit. They
• 2:46:59
  Speaker 2: want more wives. They want bigger cars, bigger houses, newer phone,
• 2:47:03
  Speaker 2: all that. Keeping up with the Joneses.
• 2:47:05
  Speaker 1: The hairless upright ones with free hands.
• 2:47:06
  Speaker 2: The freaks.
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 1: Especially you got to be able to build stuff with
• 2:47:09
  Speaker 1: those hands.
• 2:47:09
  Speaker 2: And they're curious. So they're always trying to build new things.
• 2:47:12
  Speaker 2: And they communicate so they could store information. It's a mess.
• 2:47:17
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful mess though, Joe Rogan.
• 2:47:19
  Speaker 2: But it's a beautiful mess as a to their mess,
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 2: which is probably telekinetic and telepathic. They could probably operate
• 2:47:25
  Speaker 2: things with their mind. They probably use their mind to communicate.
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 2: And so... they know what each other's thinking. So there's
• 2:47:31
  Speaker 2: no room for deception. There's no room for lies, no
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 2: room for manipulation or sociopathy. We would see it a
• 2:47:37
  Speaker 2: mile away. And so they've like radically shifted what it
• 2:47:40
  Speaker 2: means to be a living thinking organism.
• 2:47:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, man.
• 2:47:45
  Speaker 2: Dude, thank you so much.
• 2:47:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:47:48
  Speaker 2: Revelation, the future, human, past. And I really enjoyed talking
• 2:47:52
  Speaker 2: to you, man. This has been super fun. I'm so
• 2:47:54
  Speaker 2: glad you had me on.
• 2:47:55
  Speaker 1: This has been.
• 2:47:57
  Speaker 2: My pleasure. If people want to find you, how do
• 2:47:59
  Speaker 2: they get you on social media?
• 2:48:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a website, michaelpmasters.com. It's got links to
• 2:48:06
  Speaker 1: my four– I have four books and I just published
• 2:48:08
  Speaker 1: a kid's book last week.
• 2:48:09
  Speaker 2: This is on UFOs too?
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:48:11
  Speaker 2: What's it called?
• 2:48:12
  Speaker 1: It's called Marshmallow and the UFO. A time travel adventure.
• 2:48:17
  Speaker 1: It's actually a prequel to that one with Jesus throwing
• 2:48:19
  Speaker 1: up a double bird on the front, which is not
• 2:48:21
  Speaker 1: child appropriate at all.
• 2:48:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, doesn't seem like it.
• 2:48:23
  Speaker 1: It was a bit of a right turn, but man,
• 2:48:25
  Speaker 1: this has been so fun.
• 2:48:26
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Thank you for doing it. I
• 2:48:27
  Speaker 2: really appreciate it. It was fun. All right. Bye, everybody.