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In Conversation: The Help Loop with Hank · Fierce Encouragement

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Fierce Encouragement.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is Mark Walker, and this is a space where we have honest conversations about what awareness is, what courage is, and that inner work we can move towards to fully become that best version of ourselves.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by one of my good friends and a coach, Hank.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: He works with high performers who are on paper, probably doing well, outwardly having those signs of success, but maybe behind the scenes they're drifting from that potential or that dream that they have.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So Hank helps people close that gap by cutting through distraction and self-sabotage and rebuilding themselves with trust.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Hank and I go back through our work at Heroic, and it's really good to have Hank here in the podcast with me.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Hank.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got your invitation and I was so excited about it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: It really uh I was like, oh fun.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's do that.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fun to have podcasts.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I've had a couple guests, but you're you will be my first published guest at this point.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it's wonderful to have you here.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just good to see you and share this time with you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you're familiar with a little bit we talked before we we started pressing record, but after digging and doing some research on your work and knowing who you are personally, I was wondering if you could tell me about that gap between that you talk about a lot in your work, that gap between someone who someone is and who they could be.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see people getting wrong the most in that work?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would speak to that that kernel of, well, what is the gap?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like the curiosity into that, right?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So the the part that you're gonna find that I'm probably gonna loop on a little bit here with our conversation uh begins to uh it starts with with what is it to help?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So uh what is it to help yourself, but then what is it to help other people as we begin to expand outside of ourselves?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the help loop that I'm gonna probably drop into here is the place of beginning, which I I think is the most powerful, and it's curiosity.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So of all the virtues uh that heroic kind of bounces with, we've got these core eight, and curiosity is one of them.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I almost want to campaign on the idea, and of course, you know, I'm always open to changing, right?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because as I age or come up with new awarenesses, might I'll come up with a new idea.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I think curiosity is like the most potent, powerful component with which to operate the state of help.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Help yourself help someone else.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so to become more curious, and you ask the question, what is it that can be done in order for somebody to figure out what the gap is, is you gotta get curious about it.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And journaling is like such a value add at almost zero cost to explore the curiosity, right?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're gonna say like the best medicine that a person could access would be sleep, sleep is to health, what curiosity and journaling, journaling is to exploring what's possible.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if people would journal, low cost, pen, paper, digital keystroke, talk on a mic, and start exploring into what is the gap between where I'm at and where I'm looking to try and see myself.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: But that's scary, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So to drop into curiosity has a has a threat to it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if someone's coaching you, that's helpful because they can lure you into a state of curiosity.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's it's more of a pull than a push.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: To get into curiosity, it's it's a pulling part, right?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm trying to tease this out of you, and there's an edge of discomfort in here, but it doesn't quite have like an irritation as long as you're open to it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the question can maybe come off as though it's irritating.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if we start from a place of curiosity, that's the best place to begin.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And journaling is a way to augment that uh or do it totally yourself.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you got a coach, then as they're asking questions, you might expand on your journaling to figure out what is my gap between where I am and where I'm trying to go.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that I'd like to see for myself?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the starting place of this loop.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's wonderful.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: The help loop.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that help loop kind of to summarize or to bring that into a tight is for you is recognizing that gap and then inviting these tools, whether they be journaling, whether they be a third party, a coach, a mentor, and getting clear on it, using that journal to open up.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I like how you uh framed it at the end.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot, it feels like we need to push people into it, but it's actually more of a pull where you're kind of throwing out a rope.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: An invitation.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to do that.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to riff a little bit more on this loop, this help loop?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to hear more about that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where did that come from, or how are you finding yourself using it?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just kind of these journaling techniques or just reaching out to people?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's walk from, let's assume we've opened up the gap and we've we've discovered some curiosity and some details and some fissures, some places where I'm here, but I'd like to see myself here.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's curiosity about what that is.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then it becomes a question of, oh, well, that's a thing.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: We identified something, an it, an it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So then there's a compassion component if you're gonna help.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just say it's coming at it from a coach point of view.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you and I, we've been in this dialogue and we found the it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna try and position myself shoulder to shoulder with you, with a place like compassion and empathy about the gap, the thing, the it.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's me plus you versus it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not you versus it, but that I'm a support shoulder to shoulder with you to address it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that be just someone to kick the idea around about what solutions might be available in order to deal with it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're gonna move to the next component, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna run a little triangle loop.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the third piece here is leadership.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna take the leadership role to encourage you to take the very next right action, or the right action that could be taken, next step.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my encouragement to give you the confidence, the faith to step into what could be done to address it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully it's not such a big leap that we can run this loop again.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we go boom, took the right action.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: How does that measure up against the gap, the curiosity?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: We get curious again, and then we can run this loop again.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the more times we do this and we build greater confidence and build better faith and trust in each other in the process with which closes it or exposes the new it.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine some of those loops might stall out.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: You get some uh data that it's not supporting you, that gap isn't in that area.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I like how you're like, well, great, let's just rinse and repeat it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: What can we get curious about again?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: What can we, you know, get that help on, and then obviously have that leadership, that self-leadership.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, the the thing that's really shining through that, and I guess it's one thing I've come back to again and again on this podcast, but I've heard it from other coaches like yourself and even luminaries, is this connection.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What it feels lonely when we're going after our dreams, our goals, or even if we're just trying to get up to that next level with the company we're working at.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: It almost feels like you know, we're swimming against the river.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I liked how you kind of framed up that this idea of the help loop.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing that just comes out to me is like this idea of connection.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: A coach is not a manager or an advisor, but they're more about that, like, hey, let me run this race with you.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'll throw that rope down and pull you up if you need to, or I'll help you at those moments.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think people forget about that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And at least that's something I've been in my clients through the past few years is gosh, I really liked talking through this.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: It really helped me clear some things up, it really helped me get clear on the vision of what I do want to do, whether it's that gap you're talking about, or whether it's just being more present with the family at night or something like that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I guess how does fierce encouragement look to you personally in that connection or in this kind of loop that you're bringing forward?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm gonna anchor that down into the leadership part, right?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm gonna have my own self-doubts about giving the encouragement to take the leap.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that for me to step into the full faith and trust that I'm gonna encourage you to do the thing, there takes an it takes an emboldened position with which to like push in a way, like to offer up, like you can do this.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's that's that takes some fierce disposition with which to hold that part of encouraging others.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I felt a little not shakiness there, but like, oh yeah, that's the hard part.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm reminded of uh one of my coaches, Josh, talks about just believing in your client, just believing in them.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like such a small thing, but yeah, I like that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: It we don't have to do these grand gestures, but just believing in somebody and connecting with them and encouraging them or supporting them sounds like it's a big part of how you help people and how you grow.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you did a little reflection in there if I caught it right.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I need to be in the right kind of mind state as I help my clients.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because there's like an aspect that I'd say is there where like maybe I I I might end up somewhat attached to an outcome.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so what's it look like for me to let go of that too as I step into the leadership role of campaigning of some sort, like framing up, like, yeah, here's the next step, perhaps, right?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And encouraging someone to take that step, and it might be one that you know doesn't close the gap and it it creates not the outcome that they were looking for, and you know, it's not as great as they were hoping, or maybe it feels like it went the other direction.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what's that sense of self-responsibility, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was a part of the team, you know, that said, hey, maybe this is the next right action.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe even that wrong path was a pathway towards the next better action, yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I always I always rest easily, I'm more easily uh doing that, you know, um with letting go of the the outcome by saying to myself, all shall become clear, clearer with the fullness of time, but I'll never get it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fullness of time is always unfolding, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, because you you remember the little story, right, where the guy has the horse and it runs away.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and everyone in the community is like, Oh, you lost your horse.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe, maybe not, maybe that's good, maybe it's bad.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then the horse comes back with five more horses.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the whole community says, Wow, that's so great! You got five more horses, and the guy goes, Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe that's good, maybe that's bad.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then his son falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and the whole community says, Oh, that's horrible.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to hear that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: You get the idea.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: What I hear there is that wisdom of impartiality.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Clarity and fullness of time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You'll you'll never get either.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Until, yeah, until we check out.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we maybe we get ultimate consciousness and yeah, right.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I like where you're going there, and it actually kind of led into another question that I had.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you were hinting at it there, maybe you covered it in full, but I guess in the in and around Fierce Encouragement, I started it because I found myself for through many years having a really sour self-talk.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm wondering what kind of self-talk or self-image did you have to outgrow or unlearn to become a coach, to become who you are now.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the process is I think most succinctly anchored in the do what you say you will do.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going to coach, you probably better activate the processes that you're campaigning on.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: The lessons, the teachings, the pro the protocols, the if this then that's.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you as a coach, you probably you better have good command over your own compass that you're enacting so that you can, you know, in good faith, right, say, Yeah, this is what works.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Doing what you say you're gonna do.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and that's really kind of the anchoring aspect of it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to somebody that says, Well, I don't do what I say I'm gonna do quite frequently, and I feel like I can never get ahead of it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can never really do what I say I'm gonna do or want to do.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to that?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true, just right there in that statement, because you are doing exactly what you said you would do.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if if someone's struggling with following through, then they are already executing on the thing they said they would not do.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they're doing it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So in failure or by missing the mark, they're they're making it still doing it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're in the game, so to speak, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so then it becomes a matter of, well, are you certain that you're not following through?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because let's find where it is that you think you're not following through as well as you would like to or think you would, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go, well, here's my pattern and my process.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the thing up, I make some kind of measured plan in order to execute, and then it doesn't happen.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So then what is it that didn't happen as well as you thought that it should?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, the gap that shows up is that I expected to jump three feet, but I only just approached the jump to get to it, and I never quite did the leap.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I I can't even say I can't do three feet, but I also can't say I can't do one because I never even leapt.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So what was the stumble, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like do we need to move the bar down lower than three feet and get it to one?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then can you leap the one foot?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have a full execution that you did what you said you would do with some measure of trust, so that then you can loop it again and make the approach and the path and the process and make the list and whatever it is.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And man, if you got one foot last time, can you get one foot one?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: What if the so my I guess reflecting back on my question, it was really, hey, I'm not getting the outcomes I want.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as coaches, we hear that, and I'm sure we look at ourselves and we don't quite maybe have the outcomes we want in our personal lives.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're saying is like, hey, that's the beauty of the companionship or the connection with a third party or a coach or somebody that's supporting you because hey, you made it an inch further than last time, or hey, you got to the starting line.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Granted, you didn't run the race, but so let's say let's say we're talking about coaches in general, yeah, and you want to be a paid coach.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're going, okay, well, uh, I got to get some clients that are paying.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so you're busy trying to set some threshold for that.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're like, okay, who are you coaching now?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, I'm not coaching anybody.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, is that true?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So client, client zero.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, okay, great.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now walk me through the path and the process and pattern that you're executing, you as you as a coach, and you coaching you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, great.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you got one client and you you'd like them to pay, but that's you paying you.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so run you through your coaching model and then move on to then client number one.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where's that person that you can identify, and you might actually realize that you are coaching people, but you just don't realize it because they're not maybe actually signed a contract with you and they aren't cutting you a check.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe you could get them to move towards that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's not the full ten dollars, maybe it's one.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if nothing more than just like to get to be that first client, can you talk him into that and say, can I would you try paying client?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want to pay that kind of money for a coach.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, let's back it down.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Would you would you let me coach you for a dollar?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, sure.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that sounds great.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can we set up some framework that that would we could do that routine and could we set that up for like three weeks?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now we got a loop.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then just keep trying to like figure out who the next client is, or see if you can't get that client to step up to two bucks, or you know.
• 20:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's great.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it really ties back into that leadership, leading yourself.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you brought up, uh, and I know that's from our coaching program that we went through, client number zero.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I always like to come back to like, no, I'm client number one.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but your point is taken, and I think that's something that I'm sure you've seen.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've seen it in the coaching program we went through.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: People would do a few weeks of the work and then they come back and be like, hey, I'm doing really well, but let me tell you about my girlfriend, let me tell you about my spouse, let me tell you about my kids and how they're screwing up.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do I fix them?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I know we were always instructed like, come back to yourself.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are you doing what you say you're gonna do?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know we get that from our coaching program.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is confidence.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: The word confidence means that intense self-trust.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way we move towards that is if we do the things that we say we want to do without beating ourselves up, which I guess kind of goes into my next question.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we tell the difference between real discipline and real movement versus beating the hell out of ourselves and kind of over optimalizing ourselves?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the discipline I notice is that can you roll into that that that loop that's incremental?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that can you do it consistently enough over time to where you can start to see that growth start to take shape, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're gonna say it's a the 1% change, continuing to try and add 1% change, where is it in your path in all the different like strata of ways with which we can relate to the world?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if we take physicality, how do we relate to the world physically in our efforts to become a little stronger, a little more resilient?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: If we're gonna have exercise as a part of that process, what is it that you're Consistently doing that's allowing you to notice that you're seeing an incremental shift and adjustment and a growth pattern over time to where week after week, month after month, you're like, I was here, but now I'm here.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, there's a markable change.
• 22:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it be the client, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I went from thinking I had no clients to realizing I at least got two.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: One's me, the second one's only paying a buck.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, can I keep this trend going and pick up another one and maybe they're paying 10?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like the one that I've really been enjoying is my physicality.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, doing what I say I will do because, you know, frequently it starts in the first thing in the morning, and I I don't I don't want to do it really kind of every morning, but I know that if I do it, my day goes really, really well when I perform this particular protocol, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I keep increasing the level of complexity and difficulty over time.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what's wild to me is that it it happens naturally anyway.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: The improvement, the growth, like there's an innate part of me that wants to keep trying to add something else to it to make it a little harder, right?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so my burpees, you know, keep not just maybe necessarily not adding so many more, but that the complexity of the burpee can get more complex, like knee kicks in between each of the burpees, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can add those in and keep and so the complexity over time keeps improving, keeps getting stronger.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So even though I don't want to do it, but I know damn well every day that I do it, even though some days are harder than others, some days are easier than others, over time I've noticed a measurable change.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so real discipline is it's interesting because we can overoptimalize or push ourselves too hard.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting what you're sharing, because it echoes through my own coaching and being coached, is like slow down, get data where I'm where you're at, and think about small gains.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Think about one extra push-up today.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Think about one extra uh hour of working on your creative project, whatever it is.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's so easy to beat ourselves up.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And when I feel like we're in our own operating system, it's almost like we self-sabotage, even if we are making progress uh in our projects, in our work, in our life.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Documenting, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Coming back to the journaling.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so then that makes it easier to see when you've if you're not as able to maybe kind of frame of reference, like if your mind can talk you out of the growth that you've had, if you've documented it, then you've got a a place with which to go re-reference, or if you get knocked back, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so let's say you kind of had this growth trend and you're like seeing yourself succeed, and then all of a sudden a health crisis comes along, and you're like, oh, I just lost all my gain, and I'm back to square one because I had an illness or an injury.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um you have to kind of start again somewhere.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then you've got this history that you can lean on that.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: You did do it before.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what is it that can be?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, uh, the frame of reference is like always looking at like, well, there's somebody else out there struggling with the same thing, and I'll bet there's probably somebody out there that's struggling worse than me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, so maybe I can only do 10 of whatever this one set is of something.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll bet there's somebody out there who can't do one.
• 25:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm busy trying to measure up and compare, there's always somebody better, you know, Lance Armstrong, that guy rides pretty fast.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you you kind of hinted at it a few minutes ago, but I feel like, and I think coach our coach Brian has said this a lot.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the worst thing that we can tell ourselves is that it's going to be easy.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So even if we are in the a few years into building our business or a couple years into our workout program, you hinted at it before.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not always easy when you get up.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's not like an easy button.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that's a bull bullshit thing we say, and we need to check ourselves on that front.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've I've I've done races before where um I won, but it wasn't my best day.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So right, so here's this measure of success.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: You won, and you go, man, I was not on.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and so it all just depends on who shows up.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, or you could have like a really great race and you've never felt better, and you know, you didn't win, you know, you like got 10th or 25th or whatever it is.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, yeah, but I still race like a hell.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I did really well.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so man, that's and there's there's seldom people standing there, you know, at your shoulder and next to you and like encouraging you.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where coaching is so valuable, where if you have a confidant or or a community of people who can mirror back to you, and or have like the confidence with which to ask them, would you would you blow some wind into my sails and tell me I'm great, you know, like because that really feels great.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I don't know, I think it's probably true for everybody, but maybe more so for men.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: That feels really vulnerable to ask for someone to blow some wind into your sails and tell you that you're doing good, you know.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: As men were like, well, we're supposed to just you know pull our bootstraps up and you know carry on.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, totally.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that vulnerability of asking for help is something that we didn't get shown a lot as young, young men.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: If we were fortunate enough to have some good role models around us, we move towards that.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had a coach say that this morning.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that vulnerability for men is one of the most scariest things.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: If they have never been shown that or practiced that, you know, in their youth or kind of growing.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing I think we do get better at, but it still feels shaky when we're maybe standing on a stage or sharing something on a podcast or you know, connecting with the client in an authentic way.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this I uh as a coach, one another struggle that I would speak to is we're positioning ourselves as being a guide, and that feels kind of scary sometimes because we don't have it all figured out, and then we have our own our own struggles.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: So to try and profess as though you have the right mojo, and yet you yourself, I myself struggle in my own self-talk or my own path and process or my own irritations or frustrations where I don't show up as my best self.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like I, you know, have an outburst, you know, and an irritation, and like, you know, maybe say some things that maybe aren't the best words.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I go, and who do you think you are, you know, to give others advice about how to be in the world?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, humility, you know, like I'm not all that in a box of chocolates.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um make sure I, you know, hold on to some humil humility.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, don't get too far out over my skis.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because some days go great, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, man, I am a box of chocolates.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And other days you're like, get undressed.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is that it is a there's a super vulnerability with that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we could go into so many angles there, but I'll try to keep this tight.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's back to what you said, like, confidence doesn't come from feeling on top of the world all the time.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we have to travel down and get dirty and kind of get screwed up, right?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Get get our butt kicked.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's makes it easier to stand shoulder to shoulder with someone when you're going to help them, right?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: From curiosity, exactly.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Compassion and empathy, and it's facing the it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, like go back to the, I think I said this in one of my first episodes, is talking about the difference between coaching and therapy and consulting.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's an assumption that coaches, hey, oh, you're coaching now because you figured everything out.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And some people are good at that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: We know coaches probably out there that are, you know, have been executives and you know, sold their companies or founders.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, coaching is less about that and be like, no, I've gotten my butt kicked in the arena quite a bit, and now I'm coming back to show you, maybe to save you some time, maybe just to know you have somebody with you to talk through what's going on.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like it the relationship of coaching brings out the juice, the beauty, versus like, oh, I'm gonna arrive with knowledge and impart it to you as a client.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the fairy dust of it all.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sprinkle a little bit of that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: When I I'm all the time trying to boil things down to the simplest kind of path and process, try and get it less complex, less librarian, yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Full of like, because there's just thousands of books and really great advice.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's for me, it that's the simplest framework I've been able to identify is look, coaching is about wanting to help.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is it to help people?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's to invite them into curiosity, see what can be done to stand shoulder to shoulder with them with some measure of compassion.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you plus them versus it, and then see what can be done to position in the leadership framework because they're not quite there, but you might be able to see it that you can give them some push and advice into the next right action so that we can jump back into the back into the gap, the curiosity gap again.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think about the curiosity gap.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: One way I think about it is Luke Skywalker, right?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: That guy, right?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's he's he's in the X Wing and he drops into the trench, right, on the Death Star, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the curiosity trench, the gap.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he's looking to take the right shot.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he he's got R2 D2 right behind him, you know, little support, you know, looking for guidance, and or he's got the force too, right?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's another element, right?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: With which, and he's he's looking to try and hit hit that that one shot, and it's the two by two meter, you know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, you know, may or may not get it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, it's a chance to regroup, you know, and come back out of it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so may we all operate like Luke Skywalker and it's X-Wing.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ask for that help, that kind of help Luke Skype.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Self-trust, too, you know, self-trust, yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful triangle.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking of the the image of what you're painting here with that triangle with maybe the loop outside of it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's such a good simple visual in and amongst all the complexities that we see in you know, mental health and wellness tools and things like that, just the simplicity.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it's kind of like to kind of uh put a bow tie on this.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: This has been great to connect with you.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you talked about journaling, you talked about the help loop, you talked about a few other things like doing what you say you're gonna do, raise your confidence gradually, that kind of 1% or one action.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I guess what do you think is one practice or habit, maybe outside of what you already shared, that would really make the biggest difference in the listeners' lives, or has made the biggest difference in your life?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it goes like this you were born, and the first thing you did when you dropped out of your mom, you took in a big inhale, never done that before, and this big inhalation is all new information, it's like springtime, and the possibility opens up, but the realm of possibility and all this new information that you've just taken in becomes quite overwhelming, and that's that pressure of fullness of the breath that's reaching summer, this deep expansion, and now it's gotta roll over, and you've got to let it go.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the exhale is dropping into fall, and as the leaves begin to fall and everything starts to contract, there's a little kind of ting and noticing around the idea that am I gonna need to breathe again?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but not yet.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: So try and run that exhale to get the fullness of the breath all the way out deep into the deep stillness of winter.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a static electricity when you get fully exhaled.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like weird, it's kind of like that's the place that you're gonna leave this world.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have a final exhale.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: But fortunately, not just yet, right?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you get to take another swing and run around the horn again and hit all seasons, and that when we spend too much time at either one end of the breath or the other, there's a state of anxiety.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the reminder is if you're not good with the way things are, if it's feeling really uncomfortable, you don't like the situation, drop into your breath and things will shift.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful tool.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love the overlay of the seasonal because that's such a macro thing, right?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: The year comes by, and I don't know how you are as you age, but I find the year is flying by now.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I loved that and kind of honoring that uniqueness of each breath.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you can't tunnel through, right?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can't tunnel from from spring and get over to fall.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: You got to get to summer, and the more we can recognize the breath, because we talk about box breathing, and I don't really buy into the box part of it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that we're either breathing in or we're letting it go in an exhale and breathing out, and that there's the pause in between is no such thing, it just happens to be we're either exhaling or inhaling.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the deep exhale, we cross through the membrane and the liminal space, because we can't hang there, right?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: We can't hang in the spot in between inhale and exhale, no such thing.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can go, but you cross through the membrane, and that's this weird liminal space, because you can only see it as you go through it, and then you're in an inhale, exhale again, whichever it is.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we're either expanding, because you can stand in the pose, right?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then inhale, even though no more air is coming in, you can still be in the pose.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's a game.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's the meditation.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: How smoothly can I transition from one to the other if I really want to stop and meditate and center my breath.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, inhabit those seasons.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good, Hank.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I feel like we could talk for another hour and definitely we'll have you back.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: But uh thanks for inviting me into your life.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're very welcome.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Again, thank you for sharing your story, some of your methods, some of the uh systems and the patterns that you're using with clients.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: I guess uh to kind of finish up, uh, where can people connect with your work?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you offer a thousand-second coaching sessions as well.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where can people connect with you and find you?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh LinkedIn's a great spot to find me.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Idahohank.com is another location that's easy to find me.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but if you if a person just googled Idaho Hank, I'm from Idaho, my name's Hank.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: You'll you'll find me, my, my uh website, my email, my my phone number.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so just reach out and we can connect, whatever that looks like.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we'll put those, put a link to Hank's website in the show notes as well.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess to kind of finally close up here, what would you say to someone, Hank, right now who's feels like they're falling behind in their own life and feel hopeless?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let go of the thought that you're the one who's failing and go see where you can help someone else.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Get curious about other people.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Back to that help help loop.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: People really get excited when you get interested in them.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can definitely give a thumbs up to that.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Even just checking your energy around people and what you're bringing to them and what you're bringing to the scene or the room.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's such good advice.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, get curious.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: How can you help?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: How can I be in this space?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And even kind of tying it to your breath, right?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like be in the breath.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Try not to rush to fall or winter.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Be in that breath, be in this moment with your client or your family.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: So wonderful.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Hank.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I guess I just wanted to say thank you to all the listeners out there listening to Fierce Encouragement.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: If something in this conversation kind of hit home for you today, please share it with someone who's been caring a lot.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they do it quietly.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, maybe they're suffering in silence.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do want to have another conversation with Hank and maybe check out his thousand-second coaching uh offer, um, definitely check out the show notes.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And again, tune into other uh episodes of Fierce Encouragement.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about awareness, we talk about discipline, we talk about that confidence and that inner strength that Hank was uh mentioning.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So stay close.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: But until next time, tell the truth to yourself, train your attention and offer yourself some fierce encouragement.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is so important.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is Mark Walker, and thank you again to my uh guest, Hank, and we will talk to you soon on fierce encouragement.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.