Latest / The Morning Edition / Science has given us another reason to love dogs

Transcript

Science has given us another reason to love dogs · The Morning Edition

• 0:04
  S1: Which dog owners among us haven't wondered about our pets?
• 0:08
  S1: What are they thinking? Do they like me? Oh, God,
• 0:11
  S1: are they judging me? Well, a new study has revealed
• 0:14
  S1: that dogs are even better at reading our emotions than chimpanzees,
• 0:19
  S1: who are our closest evolutionary relative. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris,
• 0:24
  S1: and you're listening to Morning Edition from The Age and
• 0:27
  S1: the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, science reporter Angus Dalton on
• 0:32
  S1: how scientists reached this conclusion and what we may want
• 0:35
  S1: to know to help our dogs lead their best lives.
• 0:39
  S1: It's August the 17th. Angus, welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:46
  S2: Thanks for having me, Sam.
• 0:47
  S1: Okay, let's dig in. Because scientists in Hungary and Mexico,
• 0:51
  S1: they conducted a brain scanning study of dogs brains. And
• 0:55
  S1: their findings were just published last week in the journal
• 0:57
  S1: I science. So tell us, what have they discovered?
• 1:01
  S2: Yes. So scientists scanned the brains of 14 dogs and
• 1:04
  S2: found yet another reason to love our four legged friends,
• 1:07
  S2: which is that they are really good at reading human
• 1:11
  S2: emotion or facial expressions, which might not come as a
• 1:14
  S2: surprise to anyone who's a dog lover. They do seem
• 1:17
  S2: really in tune with us. They kind of seem to
• 1:19
  S2: match our mood a lot of the time. Uh, but
• 1:21
  S2: we actually don't really have a lot of data as
• 1:23
  S2: to what's actually happening in a dog's brain. So this
• 1:26
  S2: is really, really cool research. The study actually analyzed the
• 1:30
  S2: brain activity of dogs while they were being shown images
• 1:33
  S2: of human faces that were happy, sad, scared, angry, or neutral.
• 1:38
  S2: And the areas of their brain that lit up were
• 1:41
  S2: actually quite different for most of these emotions. So like
• 1:44
  S2: I said, we sort of knew that they react uniquely
• 1:47
  S2: to happiness and excitement, and they also make decisions based
• 1:50
  S2: on that. So there was one study that showed like,
• 1:52
  S2: if you have two boxes next to each other and
• 1:54
  S2: a human reacts excited and happy towards one box and
• 1:57
  S2: neutrally towards another, the dog will prefer the box that
• 2:00
  S2: you've acted happily towards And other studies have shown that
• 2:04
  S2: dogs actually respond better to facial expressions when they are
• 2:08
  S2: expressed by people who are the same gender as their
• 2:11
  S2: primary caregiver, which sort of seems to indicate that they
• 2:13
  S2: start to learn more about their owners and sort of
• 2:17
  S2: tune in to them on sort of this emotional level
• 2:19
  S2: and learn how to read them even better. But this
• 2:21
  S2: study really added more evidence that dogs react uniquely to,
• 2:26
  S2: as I said, human happiness, which really lights up their
• 2:28
  S2: brain like a Christmas tree, in particular, the reward center
• 2:31
  S2: of the brain. So the authors speculate that human happiness
• 2:35
  S2: and smiles is kind of like giving a dog a
• 2:37
  S2: treat or a toy, which is so adorable. What this
• 2:40
  S2: study really showed is that happy human faces triggered activity
• 2:43
  S2: in the temporal cortex, which is an area of the
• 2:46
  S2: brain that recognizes faces and processes, emotional cues, and the
• 2:50
  S2: caudate nucleus, which handles rewards and motivation. And the researchers
• 2:54
  S2: said this was a really interesting part of the study,
• 2:56
  S2: and really suggested that happy human faces, in particular, may
• 3:00
  S2: have emotional significance for dogs, and that, taken together with
• 3:03
  S2: other studies. One of the main takeaways is that dogs
• 3:06
  S2: interpret human happiness, even the smiles of strangers like in
• 3:10
  S2: this study, as a reward. So the researchers actually said
• 3:13
  S2: that we can reward our dogs with treats, but also
• 3:16
  S2: with happiness, and that the science now says that we
• 3:19
  S2: have to smile at every dog on the street because
• 3:21
  S2: it makes them happy. That's just what science says now.
• 3:24
  S2: And the other really key part is that they can
• 3:26
  S2: discern the difference between a range of negative emotions, which
• 3:29
  S2: we don't actually have a lot of other data on.
• 3:32
  S2: So yeah, as I said, any this might come as
• 3:34
  S2: a surprise to any dog lover, but if you really
• 3:36
  S2: stop to think about it, it's pretty amazing that these,
• 3:38
  S2: these species that are so different to us have come
• 3:41
  S2: to learn our emotions, learn our facial expressions to the
• 3:44
  S2: degree that the authors actually say they do it better
• 3:46
  S2: than our closest evolutionary relatives, the chimpanzees.
• 3:49
  S1: Which is absolutely incredible. And what did we learn, if anything,
• 3:53
  S1: about the dogs and how they respond to negative emotions
• 3:56
  S1: like fear and anger or sadness?
• 3:59
  S2: Yeah. So when they were shown these negative emotions, for
• 4:03
  S2: the most part, they lit up different regions of the brain.
• 4:07
  S2: I won't try and pronounce the regions of the brain
• 4:09
  S2: because it's just like a long sort of spell of Latin.
• 4:11
  S2: But the key part was that they they reacted differently. Right.
• 4:15
  S2: So they seem to maybe struggle a little bit more
• 4:17
  S2: to tell the difference between sadness and anger, at least
• 4:20
  S2: in this study, based just on images of people's emotions.
• 4:25
  S2: But they did, for the most part, seem to differentiate
• 4:28
  S2: between these emotions really well. And they particularly reacted strongly, though,
• 4:34
  S2: to both fear and anger over sadness. And that kind
• 4:39
  S2: of makes sense because if a nearby human is scared,
• 4:42
  S2: it makes sense evolutionarily for a dog to be aware
• 4:45
  S2: of that. And if a human is scared, it may
• 4:47
  S2: indicate that there's a threat nearby for the dog as well.
• 4:49
  S2: And if a human is angry, that can obviously also
• 4:52
  S2: have consequences for a dog. The angry person can represent
• 4:56
  S2: a direct threat to a dog. So it's really important
• 4:58
  S2: for a dog evolutionarily to be in tune with that
• 5:00
  S2: as well. Sadness is a yeah, not as strong sort
• 5:04
  S2: of reactions in the brain, But, you know, a lot
• 5:06
  S2: of people have this experience when they say the dog
• 5:08
  S2: comes up to them and sort of gives them your
• 5:10
  S2: puppy dog eye and sort of snuggle up. So maybe
• 5:12
  S2: we need more research into that. And it's important to,
• 5:14
  S2: to remember as well, the dogs were only being showed
• 5:17
  S2: images and dogs tune in to so much more of that.
• 5:20
  S2: In the real world, they are driven by things like
• 5:22
  S2: tone of voice, your body language, and particularly smell dogs.
• 5:27
  S2: Where we live in a visual world, dogs live in
• 5:29
  S2: a smell world. So there's other research showing they really
• 5:32
  S2: pick up on things like the odor of fear and
• 5:34
  S2: the odor of anxiety. So we are missing those sensory
• 5:36
  S2: pieces in this study. But what it is indicating is
• 5:41
  S2: on a brain level, they really seem to know what
• 5:44
  S2: we're feeling as well as thinking.
• 5:49
  S1: After the break.
• 5:51
  S2: They painstakingly trained these dogs to sit still in a
• 5:55
  S2: sphinx position in an MRI machine, with their little jaws
• 5:58
  S2: sort of sitting on a chin rest.
• 6:05
  S1: Can you tell us a little bit about how scientists
• 6:07
  S1: actually conducted this study because, you know, I think you
• 6:11
  S1: and I probably both and some of the listeners, I'm
• 6:13
  S1: sure know humans who find MRI machines tricky, you know,
• 6:17
  S1: stress that they might, you know, do a big exhale
• 6:19
  S1: and their body might move and it's going to mess
• 6:21
  S1: things up. So how did they get the dogs to cooperate?
• 6:26
  S2: This part is so cool. So the researchers basically just stalked, uh,
• 6:30
  S2: local dog parks and looked out for dogs that seemed
• 6:33
  S2: calm and well trained, approached the owners, and then asked
• 6:37
  S2: if they'd be willing to be part of this study, basically.
• 6:39
  S2: So they recruited. Yeah, about 14 dogs. Like I said,
• 6:42
  S2: most of them were border collies. There was a Labrador,
• 6:44
  S2: a mutt, and a couple of golden retrievers in there.
• 6:47
  S2: And then over the course of several days and 20
• 6:50
  S2: training sessions, they painstakingly trained these dogs to sit still
• 6:55
  S2: in a sphinx position in an MRI machine, with their
• 6:58
  S2: little jaws sort of sitting on a chin rest. And
• 7:00
  S2: they were obviously rewarded copiously with treats and play for
• 7:04
  S2: staying still. And they built up from just five seconds
• 7:07
  S2: to a full three minutes. And it's pretty extraordinary because
• 7:10
  S2: if the dogs moved more than three millimetres during any
• 7:14
  S2: one scan, it would have rendered that data unusable. So
• 7:18
  S2: it sort of goes to show why this data is
• 7:20
  S2: so rare. It takes a lot of patience and time
• 7:24
  S2: training these animals to stay still while they're awake in
• 7:28
  S2: an MRI machine. So that training is what allowed the
• 7:31
  S2: dogs to stay still in an MRI machine, which was
• 7:34
  S2: a pretty amazing feat. And then the scientists could start
• 7:37
  S2: showing them these images of human faces and do the
• 7:40
  S2: actual study.
• 7:41
  S1: I love that, just more data, if we needed it,
• 7:43
  S1: that dogs are better than us. Like we knew that already.
• 7:45
  S3: But I know, I know, I know, but it's nice
• 7:48
  S3: to see.
• 7:48
  S2: It spelled out on a brain scan.
• 7:50
  S1: Exactly. And I wanted to ask you about something that
• 7:53
  S1: Doctor Tiffany Howell. She's a senior research fellow at La
• 7:56
  S1: Trobe University. What she told you? Now, she wasn't involved
• 7:59
  S1: in this study, but she had a really interesting, I thought,
• 8:02
  S1: interpretation of it, which was about, you know, that we
• 8:05
  S1: actually can't read our dogs sometimes as well as they
• 8:07
  S1: can read us. So tell us, I guess, what she
• 8:10
  S1: told you about what we think dogs are feeling like.
• 8:13
  S1: We think they feel guilty, right when they when they
• 8:15
  S1: get that sheepish look and they've destroyed a shoe or something.
• 8:17
  S1: But we're not right, are we?
• 8:19
  S2: Angus a lot of the time, no. Like, yeah, it's
• 8:21
  S2: kind of an irony, right? That dogs seem to be
• 8:23
  S2: really good at reading our emotions, but a lot of
• 8:25
  S2: the time we misinterpret their behavior. So the classic example is,
• 8:29
  S2: as you said, the guilty look like if they've taught
• 8:31
  S2: apart a toilet roll or destroyed a shoe, you'll often
• 8:34
  S2: get that sort of slinking look where they'll hit you
• 8:36
  S2: with the big eyes, and they'll sort of hunch over
• 8:38
  S2: a little bit and act what we read as guilty.
• 8:41
  S2: But research has showed that they don't actually really feeling guilty.
• 8:43
  S2: What they're doing is interpreting that, that we're angry and acting,
• 8:48
  S2: acting submissive to try and avoid punishment. So they're kind
• 8:51
  S2: of playing us in that way. And a lot of
• 8:53
  S2: the times in those situations, they're actually probably a bit
• 8:56
  S2: scared as well rather than guilty. So there's a sort
• 8:59
  S2: of welfare element to that as well. But they do
• 9:02
  S2: though seem to get jealous. There's been studies where scientists
• 9:05
  S2: will get dog owners to interact with a bucket and
• 9:09
  S2: be like, oh my God, hey, and like interact with
• 9:11
  S2: this bucket and their dog is nearby and doesn't really care.
• 9:14
  S2: But if you replace that bucket with another dog, suddenly
• 9:17
  S2: that dog is straining and trying to get over there
• 9:19
  S2: and being like, why are you paying attention to something
• 9:21
  S2: that's not me? Again, it's kind of makes sense evolutionarily,
• 9:24
  S2: like dog owners are their source of food and safety
• 9:27
  S2: and comfort. So if you see another animal moving in
• 9:31
  S2: on that and maybe trying to capitalize on your owner,
• 9:34
  S2: then it's evolutionarily expedient that you try and get back
• 9:37
  S2: in there and try and outcompete that dog for cuteness
• 9:40
  S2: and make sure that your owner is looking after you.
• 9:42
  S2: And the one other thing I thought was really funny
• 9:43
  S2: was one of the researchers sent me a link to
• 9:45
  S2: a video of this study where they were testing what's
• 9:48
  S2: called the Lassie effect, which is the idea that dogs
• 9:51
  S2: will rescue us when we are in strife. Right. And
• 9:55
  S2: there are lots of anecdotal stories about this, you know,
• 9:58
  S2: dogs traveling for miles to to alert the town that
• 10:01
  S2: a child has fallen into a ditch or something like that.
• 10:04
  S2: So the scientists actually studied this, and they got owners
• 10:07
  S2: to come into a room with their dogs, and they'd
• 10:09
  S2: rigged up this bookcase to fall onto the owners, and
• 10:13
  S2: then the owners would pretend to be squashed and be like, ah, help!
• 10:16
  S2: I'm stuck, I'm stuck. And for most of the time,
• 10:19
  S2: the dogs could not give a flying Fido if their
• 10:22
  S2: owners were crushed under the bookcase and in distress, they
• 10:24
  S2: would just keep roaming around the room and looking for treats.
• 10:27
  S2: So kind of disproved the Lassie effect in that way. So,
• 10:31
  S2: you know, it shows that not all of our dogs
• 10:32
  S2: have that amazing rescue gene in them, clearly.
• 10:35
  S1: Oh my God. Well, that's a bit reassuring because then maybe,
• 10:38
  S1: you know, maybe dogs aren't better than us. Maybe. Maybe
• 10:40
  S1: that boosts my self-esteem a bit there, Angus. Now, just
• 10:44
  S1: to wrap up, I wanted to ask you about a
• 10:46
  S1: tip that doctor Mia Cobb told you about how we
• 10:50
  S1: can make our dogs lives better. She's an animal welfare
• 10:53
  S1: scientist and dog expert. What can we do, Angus?
• 10:57
  S2: Yeah, so it kind of goes to this point that,
• 10:59
  S2: you know, this study was in some ways limited because
• 11:01
  S2: it was only relying on visuals. And dogs are primarily
• 11:04
  S2: smell driven. And what you can really do to make
• 11:08
  S2: your dog's life better is to realize that they live
• 11:11
  S2: in that smell driven world and slow down on the
• 11:13
  S2: walks and let them sniff. Because when we go for
• 11:17
  S2: a bushwalk, for example, we're looking for those visual nice things.
• 11:20
  S2: We're looking at flowers, we're hiking to the lookout, and
• 11:22
  S2: we're looking at a beautiful mountain view for a dog
• 11:25
  S2: that's a telegraph pole covered in we, you know, that's
• 11:28
  S2: what this scientist compared, you know, being able to smell
• 11:32
  S2: a really funky patch of grass is to a dog,
• 11:34
  S2: a beautiful, stunning view because they just get so much
• 11:36
  S2: cool information from that patch of grass. So a lot
• 11:40
  S2: of the time people are trying to get their steps
• 11:41
  S2: up and jogging, and maybe that's okay, but what you
• 11:43
  S2: can do is just maybe for one walk a day,
• 11:46
  S2: really slow down, let your dog sniff. And research shows
• 11:50
  S2: that dogs that are allowed to sniff on their walks
• 11:54
  S2: are much happier, their brains are healthier, and they feel
• 11:57
  S2: a lot safer and calmer at home as well. So
• 12:00
  S2: it's really worth doing.
• 12:01
  S1: That is super sweet. Angus. I do have one actually.
• 12:04
  S1: Last question. Do we know why all of these studies
• 12:07
  S1: about dogs are coming out now? Like, is there any
• 12:10
  S1: particular reason?
• 12:11
  S2: I don't know. I mean, what we do know in
• 12:13
  S2: a place like Australia is that dog ownership is really increasing.
• 12:17
  S2: I think at least half of all households now have
• 12:20
  S2: a dog within them. So man's best friend is only
• 12:24
  S2: becoming closer to the human race. And I think that
• 12:27
  S2: means that we become ever more curious about these animals
• 12:30
  S2: that have become such intrinsic parts of our lives after
• 12:33
  S2: really co-evolving with us for the last 14,000 years.
• 12:40
  S1: That's incredible. Thank you so much, Angus, as always, for
• 12:43
  S1: your time.
• 12:44
  S2: Anytime.
• 12:54
  S1: Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer
• 12:58
  S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa
• 13:02
  S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow
• 13:06
  S1: the Morning Edition and leave a review for us on
• 13:08
  S1: Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.