Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / Anxiety is Protection

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Anxiety is Protection · Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!

• Pete: Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. There we go. I think that's the one I like. We got it. We got it. Boom. peter: but Pete: went to doing like pre-recordings. Well, Keith, we're at the part of the interview where I'm gonna ask you those two questions. All right, Amanda Landes: that I had been kind of like since head for a while about about writing the story because Mia Mason: you are not the only one that experiences thoughts, Pete "mental Health Champ": Well, Dr. Erica, before we start wrapping up, I'm going to ask you Pete: Hello, welcome to another exciting episode of Pete for Excity. As always, let's give a shout out to my partners over at PsychPal guys. You know the link will always be in the description. 20% off use Pete at checkout for your first month. With that being said, my guest today is a clinical hypnotherapist, rapid transformational therapist who works with people all over the world via Zoom. She's certified in clinical hypnotherapy, RTT, and is certified in trauma informed therapy and the rewind technique and is an integrated coach. Please welcome in the one, the only Julie Cochran. Julie, how are you doing today? Julie Cochrane - CCHt: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Pete. Pete: Well Julie, for everybody at home that doesn't know you, why don't you tell them a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into our conversation. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Well, yeah, like you said, I'm a clinical hypnotherapist. I was trained with R in RTT by Marissa Pierre was actually my mentor. She's the founder of RTT. She developed that process, which is a little bit of a a hybrid form of hypnotherapy. uses hypnotherapy as a foundation, but then we bring in other tools and techniques to to essentially get people the best and fastest results that are permanent. so it's it's a way of doing going through therapy. And there's lots of therapies out there. There's lots of therapy modalities, helping modalities and all that kind thing. But sometimes people just want to get to the other side or something and they wanna do it quicker. So that's what this technique allows for. and I also use other techniques in my work too. so mostly I work with a lot of people who might even know logically, you know, they've done the work, they've done the reading, they've maybe even done other therapies, they know what they're doing. Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: and they've got all that information, but it keeps on happening, right? And they don't know what keeps on getting in the way. So it might show up as anxiety. overthinking, people pleasing, difficulty in relationships, or just feeling like they can't switch off, right? So a big part of my work is helping people understand that these responses usually aren't random. There's usually a reason they developed. And once we understand what the what the mind has been trying to protect us from, then we can start changing the pattern rather than simply you know, trying to fight the symptom all the time. Pete: Yeah. So Julia, I did want to ask you though. I always ask a lot of doc a lot of therapists that come in here, like how c how did you get into hypnotherapy? I mean, it's it's something newer to a lot of people, you know, some people know it's out there, some don't, you know, but what what was that moment that got you into it? Because it's always interesting to hear, you know, people's, you know, origin stories basically of like how they got into this this part of the field. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, well, first of all, hypnotherapy is a really old form of of therapy, right? It predates psychotherapy and all all of those kinds of things. but i essentially I got into it because first of all I was wanting a career change. I'd been in the business world for a long time. And I just just kind of how my business world was was morphing. I was seeing a lot of in particular men and young men. around me, not only in my business world, but personally around me, who were struggling. And they didn't necessarily want to go just talk to someone, you know, week after week or month after month. They just wanted it gone, whatever they were struggling with, right? And they wanted it gone quickly. And at the same time, we have not been really great at socially. being okay with men raising their hands in particular and saying, I'm not okay. Right. Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: We've we've we've been great about doing that for women. Women, we usually don't have a problem saying, you know, we talk to a girlfriend or we go to a someone professional or someone like that. or we have a group of of friends. But we haven't done that for men, right? And so they can often struggle on their own. Now by no means do I just deal with men, but that was kind of what led me into this work because I wanted to find something for them that would, you know, fill that gap for them. and in particular, I work over Zoom. So I work worldwide. Doesn't matter if someone lives down the street from me. I always work over Zoom, right? I'm usually working on the other side of the planet. But for men in particular, that can be great because they don't have to kind of, you know Out themselves, walk into a clinic, walk into an office, and be seen as not being okay. It offers a little bit of protection, especially when they're struggling with things like anxiety and things like that. You know, it's again, we're getting better at it, but socially we have looked at anxiety in men as a weakness. Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And and so it can be really hard for a man to step forward and say, I need help. So this offers not only that kind of anonymity, but at the same time they can do it in their own space where you know they they feel safe, you know, they can close their eyes, you know, everything I do is eyes closed with people for the majority of the time. So they're not stepping into a clinic and being asked to close their eyes for two hours and not knowing what's going on around them, which is really tough for someone who's struggling with anxiety, right? Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: so it takes that piece out of it. And so it it it's super effective. And all you really need is my voice, right? Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: You don't need to be sitting next to me. Pete: Yeah, you know, Zoom does wonders these days with the internet connecting us all different ways. It's really cool to see that's how you do it majority though. it's it's really it's really neat though, because you can reach more people. But it's funny you say anxiety because that's our first topic we're gonna get into, is how anxiety often begins as a protective response rather than weakness, Julie. So why don't you ex elaborate on that for us? Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, so the brain is predictive, right? It uses previous experience to anticipate what might happen next. And a really simple example of that is if you close your eyes, you think of cutting up a lemon, and then you bring that lemon up to your mouth, and you know, you squeeze it a little bit and all that kind of stuff. That's a really easy example of. Of our brain being predictive. But because even just thinking about it, people almost a hundred percent of the time, I can almost guarantee they're gonna have more saliva in their mouth, right? Because their brain doesn't know the difference between thinking about something happening and something actually happening. And so it's trying to prepare. And so it's preparing for that lemon, right? And it does that in all kinds of ways. That's a s really simple example, but If if someone's previously associated something with danger or rejection or humiliation or loss or unpredictability or feeling out of control, the nervous system can become very good at trying to prevent that experience from happening again. And danger doesn't just mean physical danger, right? So for a kid Danger might be mom or dad being angry if something happens or Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: or being laughed at in class or being excluded, right? It's not only things that that happen to us, it's ha things that don't happen. So other examples, disappointing someone, being criticized. Pete: That's a good one though. Being disappointed is a really good one too, because you know, w a lot of times it happens with people that expect something and it's like, I'm already gonna be disappointed. So they already are anticipating it almost and it's you know, it Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah. Pete: we don't even think about it though it like that from that aspect though. But that's a really good point, Julie. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, I mean these are all anticipatory things, right? being criticized. What did it feel like in the past when you were criticized? Well, the mind goes, we don't want to do that again, right? That's Pete: Right. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: like crap. any kind of conflict in the home, or feeling responsible for keeping everyone happy, right? 'Cause it a k kids especially are very egocentric. And Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: don't have the developmental ability to step outside of themselves and say, those two people over there, they're struggling with something. And I hope they Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: figure it out. Right. As a kid, because you come from this egocentric place, because you have a very limited like life lens at that point, right? Limited life experience. So you can only come from it from two two places, either I caused that or I got to fix it. Right. And that's why a lot of kids learn to, you know, be the people pleaser in the family. Keep everyone happy. If I keep everyone happy, everything feels safe. Because this all comes down to feeling safe. Right. Because if those two people, especially if it's parents, are arguing, that feels very unsafe for a kid. Pete: Mm-hmm. Very unsafe. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Because as a kid, you are responsible for those beings to put a roof over your head, put food in your belly, put clothes on your back, right? And and so anything that you can learn to do to keep feeling safe, which might mean, well, I gotta make everyone happy. I gotta like, you know, let's let's do everything we can so everyone's not yelling or or being angry with everyone. there's other things being told repeatedly, especially as a kid, to be careful. Right? doesn't mean you've ever experienced something bad, but you know, watch out when you step on that, be careful. Right. The kid might not have ever experienced something bad by that about that, but all of a sudden they've got it in their minds. something bad could happen if I do that. Right. Pete: Hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: and experiencing something frightening to a kid without ever having an adult understand it, or or take the time to help you make sense of it. So, you know, these things I call them peas, right? And the reason I call it peas is You know, we want to go find the peas in someone's life that's that's causing this anxiety on into their adult life. And the reason I refer to them as peas is everyone usually knows the story, the the fairy tale, the princess and the pea, right? Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: So yeah, this prince, he wants to marry this princess, his family goes, Mm, hold up. She's gotta prove that she's the real princess, because if she's a real princess, she's gonna be super sensitive. And so we're gonna test her and we're gonna bring her to the castle and we're gonna load up all these mattresses and we're gonna put a pee underneath. And if she's a true princess, she's gonna be so sensitive that she's gonna feel that pee. Problem is, they haven't told her what they've done. All she knows is she's incredibly uncomfortable, she can't sleep, she doesn't know why, right? And so that's what I go do with people is I help them go find those that P or those Ps, that thing that's so deep underneath, stacked on top of, they can't even quite put their finger on it. Or even if they can put their finger on a thing that happened or the dynamics in their family or whatever, the biggest piece is how did you internalize that? What sense did you make out of it? Because that's the key. Because that comes at an emotional level, right? That's what we refer to as an emotional imprint. It's not coming from here. It's coming from here. We can have all the logic, all the knowing in the world about something, and it just doesn't change, right? Because this is still really deep. And this is where, you know, the feelings around safety and and all of those things reside, especially around things like anxiety, right? Pete: yeah, definitely. I can agree to that one hundred percent. I think his mind is a superpower a little bit because like sometimes when mine kicks in, it means that it's alerting me that something is wrong or something else, you know. But I I feel that though with the parents arguing. My parents argue all the time. My dad was always a big argument scre he likes used to yell and scream all the time. And anytime they do it, man, my heart starts racing. It's like you go back, flashback to that moment when you're a kid, and it's like, God, here we go again, man. And it's a lot of times just over nothing. You know, and he just gets triggered really easily and I'm just like, Yeah. But I feel that emotion, man. It makes my n my anxiety kicks up really fast and it's like, you know, you go back to that moment you're ten years old and you feel that and you're feeling it and everything, you know. So I I could relate to that a hundred percent. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, and that's why, you know, talking about going back to that. I mean, that's why people struggle a lot with holiday times, right? Pete: Mm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: whether it's Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever. What whatever those times are where the family gathers that, you know, that extended family. Pete: yeah, definitely. Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And everyone kind of, you know, w as we're growing up, we all have a role that we kind of slip into, whether it is the people pleaser or the one who has to make everyone happy, or the sick one, right? Or the smart one. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Or the athlete or fill in the blank, the difficult, Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: right? The angry one, whatever. And and everybody expects when you get back together that that's the role you'll slip back into. And it can be really difficult if those people are no longer in that place, right? And everybody Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: doesn't know how to relate to them because they only know how to relate to them from that place. And it can make those those gatherings really tough. Right. So yeah, that that those things that trigger you in a heartbeat are things that are taking you back. Right. They're taking you back to something either that has happened or didn't happen. Because anxiety can also be from things that didn't happen to us that we needed as we were growing up, right? Because anxiet anxiety isn't always from stuff when we're when we're younger and gr and growing up. But the majority of time there are those peas that that start there, right? but some kids and teens and even early adults have need they have needed things in their life just because of their personality or Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: or whatever it is that maybe the other their siblings didn't need or other people around them didn't need that they didn't get. And that is just as part of an emotional imprint, right? As as as one of those, you know, what I refer to as a big T trauma or you know a little T trauma. Whatever it is that did or didn't happen to you and how it affected you is is key. Because you know two people can even experience the exact same thing, even together. And one person it can make them more resilient and the other person it can Take them right out. And Pete: Yeah, very true. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: and the only difference isn't the details of what happened. The difference is how you've internalized it. What kind of sense you made out of it. Right? And that's the emotional imprint piece. Pete: Yeah, that makes sense. So and that kind of leads into our second part of this conversation too, the connection between childhood experiences and adult confidence, you know, relationships, self-all that stuff. Because like when I was I was abandoned when I was ten by my mom, you know, and then I didn't realize how much it affected me until you start realizing that, you know, that you start lashing out certain situations flash back you to that moment, but you don't remember the moment completely. Like the body remembers. The mind remembers. I just didn't really remember the whole thing 'cause I was only ten, so I didn't really think anything of it. You know, you just just knew that we had an argument. She dropped me so you go stay with your dad. And I ended up just staying with my dad at that point, you know. So I had a lot of time to myself. So I had to basically self parent myself at points because he wasn't home. He was working and then whatever girlfriend he had at the time that we were staying with, you know, was was home sometime. So I pretty much was like Middle school basically taking care of myself like an adult, you know, took care of myself, made dinner for myself sometimes, you know, you know, and things like that. And I didn't realize how much it aff it affected me now as an adult. You know, now I had kids too, you know. I was like I get in those moments and I lash out at them, you know, for things that they didn't even do. It wasn't even their fault. It was just something triggered me and I just got upset, you know, and things like that. Now I have a better handle on it. Now I've done a lot of self-discovery and Went back and started working on it a little bit and things like that too. And, you know, trying to get past it. Now it now I've turned it into a superpower now. Because the reason this show even exists is because I just want people to feel like they have a voice in this conversation. I invite such people such yourself, invite other I invite pretty much everybody to come in here and share their voice to this conversation because I feel like, you know, we need to talk about it more. Because when I start researching it, you saw a lot of great doctors having these great shows, but I'm like, where's a regular conversation people are having? Like, you know, just one man on a journey. At first it was A journey of self-discovery I didn't know existed. So, Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Right. Pete: so the during the second half of the first season, I just said F it. I just started opening up about everything. And it was so relieving that moment I started sharing things that I was going on in my head, I think it attracted more people to it because the realness of what was going on, people could really understand where I'm coming from, you know, and now it's like. You know, everybody comes talk to me about it because they know I understand a lot of stuff. Cause I've done a lot of research. I've met a lot of people. I've learned great things from everybody. All my guests have always taught me something new. You know, so I try to take something away from all the conversations that I have with everybody. So I love it when I get different people in here with different perspectives of things because everybody has a voice, man. And it's always great to hear their opinions. Cause if one person doesn't align with one person, they might as well align with you. You know what I'm saying? And and just kind of keep going and 'Cause we're all together in the same thing. We're all trying to go for the same thing. We're trying to get make it more talked about more, you know. And then people like yourself are trying to fix these issues because we all know hip hypnotherapy is meant to fix it. It's not supposed to be like therapy. You wanna wanna hire a best friend, basically, is what it feels like. You know, they'll listen to you all week that you know, and sometimes you don't get anywhere. And that's the great thing about people like yourself that do do these different areas and different modalities is that if it doesn't work for one person, th can go to that area and get some help, and at least now they're getting relief, you know. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's lots of people who have tried lots of things and you have to f like you said, you have to find the right fit for you. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: and it it you know, it's when like you were what you were talking about was the response that you were giving in to your kids and stuff like that, it it it can make sense when it it when it it doesn't make sense when it no longer matches that situation, right? You're like you know, you probably responded a few times in a way that you kind of stood back like, Holy crap, where'd that come from? Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Like, what is that about? so it you're you're you're basically looking at the patterns, you know, the patterns that have shaped your life and and getting to a point of, you know, having the conversations, but also really getting back to like, what is this about for me? Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Right, because anxiety is different for everybody. And and one of the big things I do with people is I I I talk to them about and and and get them to understand language is huge. Right. Pete: Mm-hmm. Massive. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: So our minds are always listening because our mind's job is to do what we tell it to do, right? Pete: Uh-huh. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And people lose sight of that. We're actually in control of our mind, but it Often it feels like our mind is in control of us. But when we start understanding things about language and how our mind is always listed, because its job is to do what it thinks it wants us to do, right? So when we talk about anxiety, one of the first things I tell people when people start talking about my anxiety or my depression or whatever, using the word my, then they are identifying it as part of them, right? And and it's really hard to let go of something that you identify as part of you. So very subtle change to begin with. Said my anxiety, talk about the anxiety. Because Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: I can guarantee you you weren't born with this, right? It's not part of your genetic makeup. It's not Pete: Yeah, very true. Very true point though. It's not it's not a part of genetic makeup, you know, and it Julie Cochrane - CCHt: So we couldn't we when we can look at it as the we can look at it as separate from us, like it's that thing that's Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: right. It was our mind's way of helping trying to protect us, trying to do something that it thought it needed to do, right? To protect us, keep us safe. Sometimes it's even to to punish us. And that's a whole other conversation, right? Depending on on on those things that that you know the Pete: Yeah, true. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: messages that were that were ingrained in us as as you know we were growing up. Pete: Yeah, I know I know a lot of my childhood experiences affect a lot of my relationships because like I saw what my parents were doing and I thought that was okay. You know, and I found it interesting during during the time I've done this is that you start learning that children as early as five start really paying attention to what you're doing and things like that. They're watching what we're doing. So, you know, we may not be saying anything, but we're watching how they're interacting and then we think that's okay. So now you know, challenge as a parent myself is to make them make my daughters understand that that's not right. The way that things went between me and their mom is just not okay. And I've openly admitted it to them already and told them we've had conversations about it. you know, since I've been going on the self-discovery journey and things like that too, you know, and it's it's been great 'cause they've responded really well. In in language does matter though, because you gotta remember that these are teenagers I'm talking to. Now my oldest, very intelligent. The other two, very intelligent as well. So you gotta you can't talk to them like they're dumb, but you have to use the right words that they'd understand. And you know, and when you said that, it really hit home because I'm like, yeah, it does. Because when I they know I do this podcast and they've known they've seen the changes I'm making, you know. So we've had more open conversations about mental health stuff in general because they they deal with anxiety and some other I believe one of my daughters just had a panic attack. We were me and my brother, who's a psychiatric nurse, he actually runs a hospital out here in Chicago. And he he and I were identifying it and it was fun because she related to us and was like, okay. I'm like, listen, what you're experiencing is most likely a panic attack. Like, I've been there, I know what it's like, I know the feelings are uncomfortable, you know, and it was all about the language of how you explain it to her. Hey, listen, I've been there. I understand this, I I know what it's like. And you're using descriptive words of things that she was dealing with. So when you said that, that that makes 100% correct. You know, lingo does matter how you're using it because That's the way they'll they'll understand it too, because you gotta remember that these are youth. They're not adults we're talking to. You can't talk to them about the same things you can talk to my best friends about, you know, that are my age, so Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, well and the and the thing is when we identify it as something that's not part of you, right? You you're experiencing it, but it's not you. It's this over here. When you can identify it like that and understand that it's something that your mind developed to protect you, to keep you safe, or like I said, in some cases, even to punish you, Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: then you can come to the understanding of, it wasn't there, you know. for my whole life. Like it it was it it grew. It like it probably got bigger and bigger and bigger too as you get older. Usually it does. but what that means is I can also let it go. Like Pete: Mm-hmm. One hundred percent. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: it's not me. It's not my arm. It's not my leg. It's you know, it's not me. It was something that developed for a reason. And as a result, we can also find ways to let it go. Right. And Pete: Yeah. yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: so the panic attacks in and Well, first of all, getting to the point where you're saying, you know, at the age of five, I would argue that it starts a lot younger than that. Pete: Okay, okay. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Little babies, I mean, you you little babies know tone, they know intonation, even pre-language, right? Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: They know when there's tension around them, right? If if if people are yelling, a baby's could probably get to start crying, right? they they start to pick up on on these cues, right? Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: when I do, you know, when I work with someone, I usually do some kind of regression work with someone. And it's it's super interesting because it usually happens with the more analytical people that I work with, who he you know, who want everything concrete and making sense. And all of a sudden they go to a scene, they're like, I I I don't know where this is. And I'm like, Well, you know, just explain, you know, maybe there's a feeling. And what it gets to is they're talking about when they where it they're like it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense because they're actually dealing with situations where they're in the womb. Now Pete: okay. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: are they actually remembering things in the womb? It doesn't matter. It could be just, you know, what what often comes up was, you know, I wasn't wanted or I heard my mom and dad arguing about me or things like that. Was the that the truth? Did they actually remember that? It doesn't matter. What matters is they have this emotional imprint about that. Like even when I was, you know, in the womb, I knew that or I was, you know, being told I wasn't wanted. Right. So we actually have the foundation of our belief system in place by the time we're seven years old. Pete: That's interesting. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And then we build on it from there. Like that's those mattresses that keep stacking, right? Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: When we believe something, as humans, we like to be right. We see that all us right. Pete: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Okay. Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And so when we believe something, we also go look for the evidence to make us right, right? To build on that, to build those mattresses up. And we will find it every single time. Because we are discounting everything else around us that might be in opposition to that, right? We just focus on the things that are making us right and solidifying that. And so Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: that's what those mattresses are about. And that makes it more and more and more embedded literally as a belief. But beliefs can also change. Pete: I feel I feel kind of called out a little, Julie. You don't even realize this, but I used to be that person to go around and never be wrong. I didn't ever want to admit I was wrong. That was the hardest thing ever to Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Thank you. Pete: overcome, man. Was this like admitting that you messed up. Like, you know, now it's like I'll I'll take it, I'll take accountability for everything. Before, whoo, I was just ducking, dodging, looking every which way, looking for things, doing exactly what you just described. And I would do it all the time. It didn't matter how wrong I was, I'd be looking for the answers just to make sure I'd make things up just to make sure I was right because I didn't want to be wrong, you know, and it was just that strong sense of stance I had. Now it's like I'm a complete opposite because now it's just like, you know, if I mess up, you know, I'm sorry I messed up. You know, I take accountability. Even my my boss at work's like, Well, you don't have to apologize. I'm like, No, I'm taking accountability for what I did is what I'm doing right now. I wanna make sure, you know, I know I did wrong and You know, things like that too. So I try to take more accountability 'cause it was a reverse opposite. I would've deflected to everybody else. This way, that way, deflected the no, it wasn't me. It was so and so, you know, and things like that too. So I like kinda I kinda felt a little called out, but you didn't know that you were doing it by you know, but that was exactly what it's like. So I know exactly that feeling. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Well, and the need to be right also feeds into feelings of safety. If I'm right, then what I believe is right and I can feel safe in that. Right? Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: If if if what I believe is not right and it's something else, that that can be ground shaking, right? Like Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: if then then what is the truth? Right? And and that can be really ground shaking for people, especially, Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: you know, the more embedded it is. So, you know, so That makes sense. also the anxiety, you know, it doesn't just show up in feelings of feeling frightened Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: or panic attacks like your daughter experienced. It can show up in other ways, lots of ways. And especially with the men that I tend to deal with, it shows that it can show up in sleep issues. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: you know, I can some have someone say, Well, you know, I just I overthink things all the time. It's driving me crazy. Pete: Yep. One hundred percent agree to that statement. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Why I re rehearse conversations over and over and over again before I step into that boardroom. Or I procrastinate about doing something. Or I have perfectionism. I have to I have to do something perfect before I can, you know, th consider it done or even begin it. So the perfectionism can actually stop you from even starting something, right? Because you can never be perfect. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: the whole people pleasing, needing reassurance, avoiding conflict, right? That that's And an anxiety response, right? Pete: Yep. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: difficulty making those decisions. Again, trouble sleeping, constantly checking things. You know, OCD is an anxiety response. So trying to pr to control outcomes, that's an anxiety response because it's it feels safe. If you know what the outcome is, then you feel safe. But but when you know someone goes into a spiral thinking about what all the possible outcomes are. that is like the worst feeling because it's keeps you dead in your tracks, right? Pete: Yeah. I've been there a few times, yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: yeah, because your mind can't move forward. Your mind, if you're if your mind goes, make a decision, right? And you can't, then your mind goes, okay, we'll stay where we are. Because Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: because until you can figure that out, right? even feeling responsible for everybody else is an anxiety response, right? Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Think about it. The mother in the family, usually the one that worries about everybody else but doesn't worry about themselves. That's a very good point. So I mean that Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Right. Pete: that that covers it right there. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Exactly. And that can be passed on to the kids as well. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: So, you know, I get a lot of people say, Well, I'm not anxious. I like I just like to be prepared. But then they spend three hours rehearsing a ten minute conversation, right? That's the anxiety response. That's not just prepared. That's not just being prepared and spending five minutes to say what I'm gonna say when I have this conversation with someone, right? Like Pete: Right. Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: I I gotta know exactly what's gonna happen with this conversation. Pete: I I think it's funny though, because people like to say, your O C D, these other things, it's my exact and they don't realize what it really is, you know, like you said, seeing they're preparing for the speech. I'm just trying to be ready. you're just being, you know, a perfectionist or whatever it is. No, that's your anxiety triggering. It's going, You gotta do this right, because if not, we're gonna keep going this endless loop continuously, like, you know. And that's how mine used to be. Like, like I get something in my head and it just go endless loops and I think about all the possible outcomes, you know, and I struggled really bad with it. when I was I was married, my my first wife and I were married, I'd struggle with it because we were we had a distance between us at the in the beginning, you know, and it was like she could do nothing wrong, which she wasn't doing anything wrong. I would start inventing things that are possible. So she's doing she's not doing anything. She could be sitting at home watching TV and I'm at work sitting there with my mind racing a thousand miles an hour. But then I start learning like journaling you know, like start saying this stuff out loud to see how silly it sounded. Like listen to what you're saying. Like, like get a good approach, man. You look at you're saying these wild things, and she's just at home doing nothing. She has done nothing wrong to prove that. You know, and it it could be just because my pr you know, the previous relationship I was in before with my girl's mom was that, you know, she cheated. So now I'm automatically thinking the next person's, you know what I mean? You get in that focus, like, and then you start accusing them, and you're wrong for doing that because they haven't done anything wrong. They're just sitting there. Doing absolutely nothing, but then you're accusing them, but you have no proof. You're just making things up in your head. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, so the very the very protection that the anxiety is invoking can become the problem. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: That's that's the important nuance. So that protective strategy often works in the short term. Like maybe it worked, you know, you had to be a little bit more alert when you're with someone who was cheating on you or whatever, and you need to Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: that to happen again, because that felt like crap. but then it kind of starts to generalize, right? So you don't want to feel that way. So feelings are are signposts. Like people talk about negative and positive feelings. I don't want to have that negative feeling. We have both all all the whole spectrum of of feelings and emotions for a reason. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: They're signposts, they're pieces that of data, right? They're information pieces. You either want to feel more of something or you want to move away from feeling like this and make Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: give it a shift because I want to feel like that over there, right? So it's just data points. So as a result, when we when we're doing things that you know are a protective strategy in the in the short term, but they start getting in the way when, for example, you avoid a presentation. Anxiety drops, right? But you've avoided a presentation. you don't have a difficult conversation. Well, there's relief. I don't have to have a conversation. But then guess what? That nothing gets resolved. Pete: Exactly. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Or you're checking again and again and again for something and that provides reassurance, but that can be, you know, overload when you're when you're checking something so much that you can't move forward. you ask someone what they Pete: Okay. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: think about something, right? You want that temporary certainty because you're not trusting yourself. Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: making everything perfect. You and what you're doing is you're reducing in your mind the possibility of criticism. Right? The reality is nothing's ever gonna be perfect. People are still gonna react and and say what they're gonna say, right? Pete: Mm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: So it's it's it's a false sense of protection. but each time a person does that, you know, the brain can learn, you know, good thing we protected ourselves because that was really Pete: All right. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: that was really dangerous, but we we avoided that, you know. So that protection loop gets reinforced. And that's why simply telling someone to stop worrying usually doesn't accomplish anything. Pete: Thank you. Somebody said, Yo, I had somebody tell me that once when I had a I had a panic attack. It worked out. Just call them, just stop worrying. You're okay. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking you're not helping. Then another person's just watching me, just lit it all out and venting it all out. And then this woman comes up to me and she goes, You just need to you just need to stop worrying. That doesn't help. Like they think that these things are helpful. And I'm like, I after I got my recame back to myself, I was like, you know, that's not helpful when you tell people that. I'm sorry. I'm not sure where you think that's okay. You know, those little comments really do make a difference. When somebody's having an issue, how about ask them how you can help them versus sit there and tell them and give them your advice? Cause they don't need your advice in that moment. They they need you to understand that they're having a moment and you need to ask them how it's better you can suit them. Sometimes you just gotta let go. Other times they'll have an answer for you. So I love it when you said that though, because like that that kind of stuff drives me crazy. And when people say that, it's like, Yeah, and then you know. Like if you know, and then you know who doesn't know the conversation. You know, the words you use because when they say those things, then you're like, okay, you don't get it. I'm like, what does that mean? Never mind. You know what I mean? I like I say that a lot of times with people sometimes too. I'm like, it's all right, I just understand you don't get it. You know, and I don't explain them why, because it's like, what's the point? You you already have your thoughts that you want. I'm not gonna try and change your mind on this right this moment. Clearly, this is not the time to do it. We'll do it another time. But you know, people that get it though, they understand like certain conversations you have with people. You can You know, I start learning things about people really easily after, you know, about two years of the show. Now I start to learn to pick up on certain words people say. And then sometimes I can pretty much guess exactly if they've they've had a trauma or something, you know, because I can hear the words they're saying. And I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it. And then they understand. And they like, okay. You know, and it's like a secret code that people think that it's secret. It's really not. It's just understanding You know, that people everybody has something that's going on, you know, just what to listen for, what people are saying, their tone of voice, you know, things like all that different stuff you learn to listen for. And a lot of times you can tell and you just sort of know and then when they know you get it, they tend to open up to you more than other people because then you're not gonna judge them. Like what you tell them certain things, you know, like suicide's the big one that when people find out you're a survivor, they all freak out. I don't know why, but it's like you then you don't understand the conversation or you're too scared to have the conversation. You know, and and you know, with it being September while we're recording this, you know, that was one of the things that we were talking, or a lot of other people have had, you know, it's like it's just like we need to make sure the word is not so scary anymore. Like, you know, is it a rough conversation? Yeah. No one someone talking about taking their life isn't a great thing. You know, that you're not gonna wanna sit there and listen to it, but listening to them in fact is better than not listening to Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, ex exactly. When someone is in the middle of something and Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: saying you just have to calm down to that comes from a purely logic level, right? And when you're in the middle of that, you are offline anything logical. You're Pete: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: you are deep in your emotional imprint level, right? And emotion will override logic every single time. Pete: Yep, exactly. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And and so Yeah, someone trying to just talk you out of it. Or, you know, whereas like you said, is there something you need? Can I just sit beside you? Can I make you there's something Pete: Yeah, exactly. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: if there's something I can do to make you feel safe in this moment? all of those kinds of things, right? That's Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: those are the conversations, those are the kinds of conversations we need to have and tools for people to have. Pete: Exactly. That's that's the whole point. Like what I started to show was my own self discovery. Now I'm on a mission to try and help educate people more about this subjects. Like things that you shouldn't say and things you can do that are better, you know. And sometimes just being there is the best thing for people. And you know, and I want people to understand that it's like, you know, you don't have to do a lot for some people in these situations. Just being attentive to what they need, you you could do a lot more than nothing at that point, you know, ca versus the opposite of you just making it worse by Telling them to calm down and all these other silly, ridiculous things you want them to do. And it's just like, stop, guys. Like, I don't know how many times I gotta say it, just quit, you know. But it's it's interesting to watch though, because like I start seeing more of these people that are doing more mental health posts, and like some of them are good, some are just terrible. You know, and then and sometimes I reach out to them private. Hey, listen, you probably shouldn't go that direction or something. You know what I mean? I don't know if they're reading the message out, but I'm gonna try and offer a helping hand where I can because I want people to better understand these things. You know, and I think that we need to start we need to start teaching people how to approach these situations versus run away from them because it's not doing us any good. We've seen what happens when you run away, the problem gets worse. It doesn't fix it. You know, the suicide rates are going up, they're not going down. So obviously this is a conversation we need to have, you know, and I get everybody's like, it's only September the where it but the conversation doesn't stop there. Watch how many people start the conversation in September. Now watch what they do after that, because most of them will leave it. The ones that really know what's up are still talking about it afterwards. They're still making content about it, trying to cause that conversation to be even bigger than it is before. You know, and I'm always watching that because it's always funny to see that because everybody jumps on the bandwagon and they all want to be a part of it. Okay, that's cool. Well, okay, let's see what you do after this month because that's what it really determines whether or not you're serious. Or you're just trying to do it for cloud or whatever else, you know, because you can see if you watch them, their content will go back to whatever they were doing before. They won't incorporate those things. The people that are really passionate about it, constantly just shooting it out all the time, different things, talking about different angles of it, making different posts, you know, saying, you know, all these other things, reminding you to check in on people. You know, things like that, you know, you can tell that they really were are really about the subject, you know. And I I think in this space, authenticity is a key thing. I know when I started this. that's the only great advice Max Wife actually gave me. It was like be authentic in this part. It's like, okay. And at first, like I said, it was hard for me. And then when I hit the second half of the year, I just I just opened up and then it just the the people invites just started coming and wanted to come on after they heard all that. When I started just telling about all the struggles I'm having and you know, and everything like that too. So like my life's on the internet. My kids know my life's on the internet, so they know my struggles. I'm sure one of them if listened to this show at some point, hey, let me see what dad's up to. You know, kind of thing like that too. And I've gone on other shows and and just started sharing about it because I think that, you know, the more we talk about it, the easier this conversation will be. I mean, we can talk about cancer all day, but we can't talk about suicide. Like it's like it's a forbidden word. This isn't Harry Potter. We're not talking about Voldemort, you know? It's just to me, it's just it's funny. It makes me laugh when you you know, like you get people get it and then people that don't get it. And when it gets in the conversation, it's like you listen to them give this advice and you're just smiling, nodding at them because it's like you're thinking in your mind, like, do I really correct them or is this Is really worth trying to correct them at this moment? Probably not. I'll wait. And then Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah. Pete: when people find out what I do, then they're like, wow, that's interesting. Then they ask me questions about things and then when I'm talking to them about it, they're like, all right, well, let me go check that out. I'm kind of curious now. I'm like, well, go ahead. It's right there, you know, everywhere you can find me, you know, and things like that. And that was the whole thing of the accessibility. Is I want to make sure that nobody had an excuse why they couldn't listen if they wanted to. You I'm on Spotify. I'm there. I'm there. There, there, there, you know, all those places. But Julie? With that being said, we gotta ask the two important questions of the show. I don't know if you know what these two questions are, but the first one is actually a bit of a fun one. So I borrowed this one from a friend who runs another podcast. And her question to me and my question to you is if your mental health had a song, what would you say that song would be? And now this is an interesting question because we've had some funny responses come out of this. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: And I'm the worst with song titles. Pete: We had guys say grandma got ran over by a reindeer. my god, Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Right. Pete: that was the greatest responsible. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, I I mean, I tend to go the other side. Like instead of focusing on what's wrong, I'd I'd like, you know, my mind always goes to let well let's focus on what what it can be. Because that's our our mind's biggest power Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: is we can control where we go. And we have way more control over that than people realize. So what's that Bob Marley song? Pete: Don't worry, be happy. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: ev everything's gonna be okay. Right. Pete: there you go. Yep, everything's gonna be okay. Yep. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Right. And and you truly can't Pete: That's a that's a good one. That's a good title. That's a good one in there. So Julie Cochrane - CCHt: you truly can't get there. for me what it what it signifies is that you can have control. There are things you can do to have control over your mental well being. And and we have kind of embedded I'm doing some next week I'm doing some work at a local high school. And and that's one of my themes. You guys you Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: guys have control. Like like they're they're embedded with these things, like, you know, your last year of high school is gonna be tough. You're gonna be an overwhelm. There's gonna be lots of anxiety. You have to make life decisions. I'm like, my goodness, stop. Stop Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: embedding those those messages into these kids because they're gonna take them on and they do take them on, right? I wanna I wanna kind of flip the script. Like Well what do you have control over? There's lots Pete: Exactly. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: of things you don't, but there are lots of things you do, right? And and so when we can focus on those pieces, then Pete: Yeah. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: then they can experience that forward movement in the way they they want to, rather than just feeling like they're being swept up through life and everything's a challenge. Pete: Right. Yeah. I love it. So Julie, we are on to the final question and the reason I started this podcast. If you could break the stigma about mental health down, what I'm asking is something that you want people to stop believing. What would you say that one thing would be? Julie Cochrane - CCHt: to stop believing that it can't change that your state of mental health can't change Pete: I love it. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: it can it can right and and is finding the right person to work with to help you do that. Pete: Exactly. Well, Julie, with that being said, I'm gonna wrap up this episode Peter from Society, but before I do, why don't you let everybody know where they can find you? Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Yeah, I'm my one-on-one work is at you can find me at juliecochrane.com. really easy. And I also have an app for people who are maybe not interested in doing one-on-one work, but they they want something to help them Pete: Okay. Julie Cochrane - CCHt: move in their life. and it's my Noma app, and that's at myNoma.help. Pete: Awesome. Julie, thank you so much for gonna hang out. I really enjoyed this conversation. I feel like we can invite you back for some more conversations with the topics that you were giving me Julie Cochrane - CCHt: Ship. Pete: for sure. You know, did want to say thank you again for being here. It was great. I'll definitely gonna have all the links in the description, guys, for everything that Julia just listed off, including her app as well. So we can make sure you guys can get access to that, guys. And with that being said, we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete First Anxiety, guys. You where to find I'm Pete First Anxiety. I'm on Spotify all the way down to Pandora Radio. I'm on X, all way down to TikTok, guys. And as always, say it costs nothing absolutely not to be kind to somebody. One kind act you could do to save cycle for hell, you can make their day. I'm Pete First Anxiety sign off saying don't ask how your day is today. Say, hey, how's your mental health?