Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Ark in Space (2/4)

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Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Ark in Space (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a plump. Pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:38
  It's, it feels near, very near now.
• 0:43
  He croaked as he tried to speak. A ball of cracking mucus welled
• 0:48
  out of the dark slit that was his mouth and trickled down the
• 0:51
  front of his of the suit. He stumbled forward.
• 0:54
  Vira, Vira, he threw the paralyzer at Mira's feet for
• 1:00
  pity, sakes, kill me, kill me now, he pleaded, his voice
• 1:05
  barely intelligible. Then he reeled back with an
• 1:07
  appalling shriek into the airlock as with a crack like a
• 1:11
  gigantic seed pod bursting, his whole head split open and a
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  fountain of green froth erupted and ran sizzling down the
• 1:20
  radiation suit, burning deep trenches into the thick
• 1:24
  material. Welcome back to a Hamster with a
• 1:28
  Blunt Pen Knife, The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
• 1:32
  Hello Mr. Simon Hart. Hello, Mr. Joe Ford.
• 1:36
  That is an example of why, as a kid, we all loved Ian Marter's
• 1:40
  book so much. It's sick.
• 1:43
  Yes, he went to town on the gore and the violence and we loved
• 1:48
  it. His books aren't like anyone
• 1:51
  else's, are they? And they were always a bit
• 1:55
  special. Yeah, well, what is it then
• 1:58
  about Ian Marta's work? What?
• 2:01
  Like I said, I loved it because you got the these wonderful
• 2:05
  lurid descriptions of bodies being ripped apart and things
• 2:10
  like that. And I, I loved his, his Cybermen
• 2:13
  books. I loved the invasion was a
• 2:15
  magnificent novel, but Archie's face was one that I came to
• 2:20
  quite late. So I read a lot of his other
• 2:22
  ones. So, and everyone had said, oh,
• 2:24
  this is, this is his masterpiece.
• 2:25
  This is his great one. And it's really good.
• 2:27
  And it is really, really good. In fact, we have a question
• 2:31
  about this, I believe from James H.
• 2:36
  James. And I'm just going to try and
• 2:39
  find it now because there's so many.
• 2:43
  Just keep talking, Joe. Should I keep reading from the
• 2:46
  book? Yeah, give us some more.
• 2:49
  Just go to any page right now. OK, here we go.
• 2:53
  Before the doctor could reply, she turned with a gasp and speed
• 2:56
  across the chamber to Noah's palate.
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  The quiet, rhythmic pulse of light and sound had become
• 3:01
  irregular and staccato. You there?
• 3:06
  I'm here, I think, James says. I can't find his actual comment.
• 3:11
  He says about the book that it it was a book that he really
• 3:16
  loved, but he didn't like the talking book version very much.
• 3:19
  Who read it? It was the first one done by
• 3:21
  John Colshaw, so maybe it was just something about the reader
• 3:27
  that that didn't work for him, but it was a book that I
• 3:31
  certainly loved. I know the VHS was one of the
• 3:35
  earliest released, but these fabulous little tones like the
• 3:40
  one I'm holding right now, the arc and space with a great
• 3:43
  cover, may I say yeah. That was Chris Arkilios's last
• 3:46
  cover for the Range. I'll see it.
• 3:48
  Well, may I say you went out on a high?
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  I think like the yellow trimming as well.
• 3:53
  Yeah. But these were valuable
• 3:55
  resources, weren't they? We could explain.
• 3:57
  Oh, absolutely. Stories again and again.
• 4:01
  Well, look. What other questions have you
• 4:03
  got for us then? Sorry.
• 4:04
  OK Oh Jason Thompson. Hello Jason, I found the comment
• 4:13
  says this was the story that cemented me as a fan after I
• 4:16
  read the Target book, then happened to find my school's
• 4:19
  Doctor Who club watching it Is Ian Marter's novelization, one
• 4:24
  of the best in the range. The graphic description of
• 4:26
  Noah's skin bubbling and his head cracking open.
• 4:30
  There we go, I. Just read.
• 4:32
  There we are. So.
• 4:33
  Yeah. So yes, it is.
• 4:35
  And that's when James says it's a superb novelization, but not
• 4:39
  one of my favorite audio books. It's.
• 4:42
  It's weird because the books could go further than the TV
• 4:45
  show, couldn't they? Yes.
• 4:47
  It's almost like there was nobody saying it was a bit much
• 4:49
  for the kids. Because it's a book, so you want
• 4:53
  to make it as thrilling, and they're selling, so you want to
• 4:56
  make something that stands out and you've got one of the stars
• 4:59
  of the show writing a book that's amazing.
• 5:03
  And as Gary Russell says in the On Target documentary that's on
• 5:08
  one of the DVDs, Martyr has a way of putting you in the scene
• 5:12
  with like, sights and smells. And he, he, he's a.
• 5:15
  Visceral. He's he's about the everything
• 5:18
  around you. Unlike Tara Sticks who is so
• 5:21
  economic with his price and can tell a story in a snappy way
• 5:26
  that's very engaging and gets to the point, EMR spends a bit more
• 5:29
  time. Now I'm not suggesting he's Jr.
• 5:31
  Tolkien spending, you know, 5 chapters to describe a tree, but
• 5:35
  he does put you in the scene more.
• 5:37
  Yeah, absolutely. He puts you there.
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  So you're experiencing it like the characters do.
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  And there's a lot because he knows the story and he knows
• 5:45
  Harry very well. There's a lot in the book from
• 5:48
  Harry's point of view, which is very, very good.
• 5:51
  Well, anymore before we go in. Yeah, well, we should probably
• 5:54
  just deal with one more from Fraser because, yeah, he said
• 6:01
  Episode 1 is is episode 1 the best example of an episode of
• 6:04
  TV's Doctor Who that only features the regular cast and no
• 6:07
  other characters? I think so, yes.
• 6:11
  I think it's the best example of that because I can remember
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  watching this for the first time and being completely glued to
• 6:19
  the screen. You're.
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  Swept up in it, aren't you? Right from the start, so.
• 6:24
  Yes, Fraser. Yes, and while we're talking
• 6:26
  about Ian Martyr's books, Fraser says Snog, marry, have your
• 6:30
  exploding head be graphically described by Ian Martyr.
• 6:35
  The arc. The arc in space, Arc of
• 6:38
  Infinity. Oh, the arc arc, space, arc of
• 6:42
  Infinity. Well, OK.
• 6:44
  Well, I think we're going to avoid Arc of Infinity.
• 6:47
  Oh, for sure. Sorry James H, but we are going
• 6:49
  to avoid that one. Yeah, I think, I think I'd snog
• 6:52
  the arc because that's good. But you know, and then I think
• 6:57
  I'd marry the arc in space because it's the best one of the
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  three. I think I would snog the arc in
• 7:03
  space and marry the well. I'd have a security kitchen in
• 7:07
  my house. Well, you, well that's good.
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  You'd have potatoes that you can store tiny and make big.
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  And those wearing grubs look like they could give a good bit
• 7:15
  of tongue as well, so. That's so you.
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  I dread to think what a wearing could do with his mandibles, but
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  I'm willing to find out. Well, shall we gleam on into?
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  Parts. Yeah, I think we should.
• 7:31
  Hey. Right.
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  OK, you you're doing. All the 54321, let's go.
• 7:40
  All the types of sequences back to normal.
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  Thank goodness. I got off of that.
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  Why didn't they learn that lesson with series 7B when it
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  was like a vomit sort of being sprayed over?
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  What did they realise after one episode like arc in space?
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  No, it ain't. Working.
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  No, just just bring it back. Everyone just wants it the
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  classic version. So what could the monster that
• 8:01
  came leaping out of the cup and possibly be?
• 8:03
  Well. I don't know what and what's he
• 8:04
  going to do to them. You just launched yourself a
• 8:08
  Harry. Thing that we would have
• 8:10
  expected was that it was dead. Yes, and that's clever.
• 8:14
  Yeah, that's basically like a Moffett resolution, isn't it?
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  Completely define your expectations.
• 8:20
  Was no wonder he likes this so much.
• 8:22
  I do think you can make some not lows, but some parallels between
• 8:27
  Robert Holmes and Stephen Moffett.
• 8:29
  Yeah, I think so. I mean, they're, for a start,
• 8:32
  They're the two people who've written more Doctor Who than
• 8:34
  anyone else. Very true.
• 8:38
  Here we go. So is is this the Queen?
• 8:44
  Yes. But this is the one we saw at
• 8:46
  the beginning. This is the one we I think
• 8:48
  that's the sort of the implication.
• 8:50
  Oh, because we watch it play out later, don't we?
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  And I Brilliant. We do, yes, because we get that
• 8:53
  brilliant sequence in Part 3. So she flew through space,
• 8:58
  discovered the Ark. Yeah, impregnated.
• 9:02
  Yeah, got attacked by the auto defence system, turned it off.
• 9:06
  Yeah, then went to the cryogenic show.
• 9:11
  They predated June and died. And then June got eaten inside
• 9:19
  out by. By the.
• 9:22
  The line where he goes you mean. June's knowledge has been.
• 9:26
  Thoroughly digested. So one of one of the things,
• 9:33
  again, another great article that I read said this is a
• 9:39
  season where we've got a story about Cybermen.
• 9:43
  Now, would this have not been a brilliant setting for a Cyberman
• 9:49
  story where they've got the bodies ready to make more
• 9:53
  Cybermen? Oh, this is the setting for a
• 9:56
  Cyberman story. Well, I know it is the setting
• 9:58
  for a Cyberman story. I know what you're.
• 9:59
  Saying this would be more of a a thematic Cyberman story where
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  they're harvesting the remains of humanity to make more
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  Cybermen. Yeah, isn't it because that is
• 10:10
  they're asleep, so they they can't even resist.
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  Yeah. Wouldn't that have been?
• 10:16
  That could have worked. In a similarly smart piece that
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  I've read online, somebody said that the sidemen were custom
• 10:25
  made for Robert Holmes to make a meal out of them.
• 10:28
  You know, because he loves all that body horror and possession
• 10:32
  and all of that. And he was.
• 10:34
  Just not interested. In them, right, Didn't he?
• 10:36
  Yeah, It's like Moffett Daleks. He's just not interested.
• 10:39
  It's. Bizarre, isn't it?
• 10:42
  Because it's like he doesn't want to play with other people's
• 10:45
  toys. Yeah, he wants to.
• 10:48
  Well, he wants to create his own toys.
• 10:50
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 10:51
  Which is an absolutely perfectly reasonable way of doing Doctor
• 10:56
  Who. Sigh, you claim to be Med techs.
• 11:01
  My doctorate is purely honorary and Harry here is only qualified
• 11:04
  to work on sailors. Well, Harry and I was in common
• 11:07
  then, haven't we? This is Wendy Williams, who is
• 11:12
  now turned up as Vira. And I think I'm going to say I
• 11:16
  think she is one of the great unsung performances in Doctor
• 11:21
  Who. I really like her.
• 11:23
  I think she is really great. She's doing exactly what you
• 11:27
  need to do. She's completely buying into the
• 11:29
  world, Yes. And there's no hint that she
• 11:33
  don't believe this is painfully serious, you know?
• 11:37
  Absolutely. And what I like is that over the
• 11:41
  course of the story, she warms up and she becomes more human
• 11:45
  until we get that wonderful smile from her as the story
• 11:50
  closes, when she's got the Jelly baby.
• 11:53
  She doesn't smile. And then when they're gone, she
• 11:55
  just sort of, sort of haunted. Better get on with it then.
• 12:01
  I love that I think she she plays this absolutely spot on
• 12:05
  because she is a cold fish here. Yeah, it's a great character
• 12:10
  though and we I think we like it straight away.
• 12:12
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, I'm going to say it.
• 12:16
  It's a very rare OB Holmes writing a strong woman.
• 12:22
  Yeah, it don't happen too. Often this doesn't happen for
• 12:26
  I'm not sure this happens again until we get Crown Timon, and
• 12:31
  even then she's not in command. I think he can write up a good
• 12:35
  female companion. Yeah.
• 12:37
  Oh yeah. Ramada in Rebus, Leela in the
• 12:39
  Sun Makers. Yeah.
• 12:42
  He absolutely can do that. But you mean guest characters?
• 12:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Pyramids and Mars.
• 12:48
  He just forgets to include one. Yeah, exactly so.
• 12:52
  Yeah, so it's all a bit weird. And I have heard that, I've,
• 12:54
  I've discussed it elsewhere. But he doesn't.
• 12:57
  He didn't like killing off women, no.
• 12:59
  But he doesn't have to kill her. She doesn't die.
• 13:03
  I just think he liked writing for men.
• 13:05
  Yeah, I think that might be it, but I I rather like her so.
• 13:12
  I asked Cy, have you ever been injected with a monod block?
• 13:16
  Never. That's not what offered.
• 13:20
  Every time. Oh, just like Noah's Ark.
• 13:29
  It is a name from mythology. His real name?
• 13:32
  Oh, it's a proper space name. It's got AZ in it.
• 13:34
  Laser. We called him Noah as an
• 13:38
  amusement, and they're so haughty.
• 13:41
  But all that dialogue is like specifically pointed to make
• 13:46
  them, you know, upper class, the best of society, arrogant.
• 13:51
  You know, it's so precise, the dialogue your colony has no
• 13:56
  records, no history. Where are you from?
• 13:59
  Yeah, and that the line where she says, oh, you Dawn timers
• 14:02
  have a language all of your own. The solar flares destroyed all
• 14:09
  Earth. So there you go.
• 14:10
  He's stillwell building. He's given us the reason now why
• 14:13
  the Ark exists. I like that they've just
• 14:20
  overslept. Their alarm clock didn't go off.
• 14:23
  And that's nothing to do with the wiring, right?
• 14:25
  No, I what this is where I'm not entirely sure what the time
• 14:31
  frame is, because there are some people that say the arc drifted
• 14:36
  out of Herb's orbit and came back in and things like that.
• 14:41
  So I don't know. I can't remember.
• 14:44
  Oh, there's been a snitch up. Didn't.
• 14:47
  I say there'd be a snitch up that's.
• 14:51
  A great line as well because you know he's the sort of person he
• 14:54
  was. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:56
  Yeah, he's probably yeah, because he's he's the engineer
• 14:59
  who down to earth. He's like the chief O'Brien of
• 15:03
  the Ark, isn't he? Yeah.
• 15:06
  Oh, look at this shot, this model shot.
• 15:07
  Yeah. In fact, this is really nice
• 15:09
  that they are giving us establishing shots of the Ark.
• 15:12
  Yeah, not something Doctor Who always does remember.
• 15:15
  No, and it reminds you where you are.
• 15:17
  Because we. Haven't seen that since part the
• 15:20
  start of Part 1. Yeah, I think it's like once an
• 15:22
  episode, I think. Yeah, until you get those
• 15:25
  astonishing sequences of the bugs crawling over the surface.
• 15:30
  The women have space walked around the.
• 15:33
  As a kid, I was so excited. This really is bucking the trend
• 15:38
  as well for the science fiction. Yeah, in that I feel like this
• 15:45
  is a science, sorry, a science fiction historical.
• 15:48
  It's being done with the same amount of detail and the same
• 15:51
  amount of care that they would do a historical story.
• 15:54
  Yeah, I think that there's a really good case for that, that
• 15:57
  that's absolutely right. They're exploring this, this
• 16:02
  society. So the grub that's sort of going
• 16:07
  about the place, yeah. Is that one of the grubs that is
• 16:11
  way out of June? I think so.
• 16:14
  So there must be several of them because there's quite a lot of.
• 16:17
  Obviously by the time we get to Part 4, there's quite a lot of
• 16:20
  wearing around and there's lots of pupa cocoons hanging around
• 16:26
  in the solar power stack, so there must be.
• 16:29
  He was in his lovely cryogenic chamber.
• 16:32
  Yeah, she came in and did whatever she did to him.
• 16:36
  Those eggs then started hatching inside of him and just burst.
• 16:41
  Oh, sigh. Oh, it's horrible, isn't it?
• 16:43
  It really is. I felt quite I'll, but it's a
• 16:48
  great idea. Yeah, well, it's A and this is
• 16:52
  what Bob Home says, isn't it? It's it's a great idea that kids
• 16:54
  can get their heads round, but it's really horrible.
• 16:58
  And he just, he gives you enough.
• 17:00
  So it is gross because I think the sequence later where you see
• 17:04
  the half transformed Noah is really gross, but not enough
• 17:10
  that they're going to shut down the show and say no, we're not
• 17:12
  doing that. No.
• 17:14
  So we've got Kenton Moore here as Noah, who is returning to
• 17:19
  Doctor Who because he was the robo man that dies at the start
• 17:26
  of the dark invasion of. Earth.
• 17:27
  Oh, he wasn't. Yeah.
• 17:29
  He was. One who tears off his helmet.
• 17:31
  Yeah, well, he got a better part this time, didn't he?
• 17:34
  He. Certainly did.
• 17:36
  This is the performance I hear criticize when people look for
• 17:40
  something to complain about that he's a bit melodramatic and over
• 17:44
  the top. I, I, I do think it's
• 17:47
  heightened. It's it's operatic, but sorry,
• 17:51
  this whole fucking story's operatic.
• 17:53
  Well. Exactly.
• 17:53
  And at this point he's very much like Vira.
• 17:56
  He's very, very calm and collected and superior, and so
• 18:02
  the choice to play the possession like he's a
• 18:06
  heightened version of this shows how much of Noah is actually
• 18:09
  being lost and how much of the battle is going on.
• 18:12
  So I think it's a contrast. But his hand has been eaten away
• 18:17
  by We're in flesh. I mean, you're not going to
• 18:20
  underplay that, no. And and it's affecting the way
• 18:24
  he thinks and he's battle it is. The way that the way he goes
• 18:28
  from being sort of we're in Noah to.
• 18:32
  Emotional. Yeah, it's really, really good.
• 18:35
  And. I actually think the sequences
• 18:37
  where he's really struggling and he's going sort of viral, but
• 18:41
  all of that is really well because that's the sort of
• 18:44
  anguish we don't often see in Doctor Who.
• 18:47
  No, we don't. And that's, that's the scariness
• 18:50
  of possession, which again, Philip Hinchcliffe said Bob
• 18:54
  Holmes had a thing about, yeah, people losing their humanity to
• 18:59
  something else. And we see it time and again
• 19:01
  through this era. His two favourites are
• 19:05
  possession and transformation because when you think like the
• 19:07
  the crinoids transformation and Morbius, you know those part
• 19:12
  body parts coming together like he does like a bit of body
• 19:15
  horror, but he loves possession as well.
• 19:17
  He. Does.
• 19:18
  It's short here inside the solar stacks.
• 19:21
  Yeah. I think it's great of the grub
• 19:23
  moving about. Brilliant, isn't it?
• 19:25
  When you're driving around inside and because of the way
• 19:29
  it's lit against the the brightness against the dark
• 19:32
  background, it's even better. Like I do, there are definitely
• 19:38
  production faults in this and it is simply because they're being
• 19:43
  hugely ambitious and they've got a small budget.
• 19:47
  Like the bit later when the wear and Grub comes to attack them,
• 19:49
  you can basically see the person inside the do.
• 19:51
  Yeah, and that's a shame. But I do think Rodney Bennett
• 19:57
  deserves massive kudos for what he does pull off.
• 20:00
  Yeah. And I, I'm sometimes in, in two
• 20:04
  minds about Rodney Bennett because I'm not sure.
• 20:07
  He's not a spectacular director, but he's he's a competent
• 20:11
  director. That's our favorite, favorite
• 20:13
  way of denigrating people without being mean about them.
• 20:17
  And I'm not. He's very good on the atmosphere
• 20:20
  and the performances and not necessarily on the special
• 20:24
  effects and the spaciness of it. But that's good then, that he
• 20:28
  was given two stories, one in studio, one on location where
• 20:32
  atmosphere was key. Absolutely and.
• 20:35
  Going in fact, he said that, didn't he?
• 20:37
  He looked at the directors and thought, well, Paddy Russell,
• 20:40
  she's good with characters, will give her.
• 20:42
  Yeah. And then later on he gives him
• 20:44
  masking man Dragarov, which absolutely works to his
• 20:47
  strengths. But all three of those stories
• 20:50
  are a bit dry as well, yes. They're a bit dry and they're
• 20:57
  I'm not sure what what the word is.
• 20:58
  I'm thinking there is something about them that they're quite
• 21:02
  slow. He's not a pacey director, but
• 21:07
  he's not getting maybe pacey stories that need.
• 21:10
  Well, I don't think that's a problem here.
• 21:12
  No, no, no, because it's the slow build and that builds the
• 21:15
  tension here. Eventually lead to the sequences
• 21:19
  of, you know, the we're in, they're in rooms and they're
• 21:22
  attacking the doors. They're and all of this episode
• 21:26
  4 feels so claustrophobic. Yeah, uh oh, there's an empty
• 21:33
  pallet. There is.
• 21:36
  Sigh. What have you done with June?
• 21:42
  I haven't done anything that's. Not what I've heard.
• 21:47
  Sorry. I heard he was sleeping.
• 21:49
  You came. Oh, no, I'm not going to finish
• 21:51
  that. I'm not going there.
• 21:55
  So messed all, the Magnificent asks us.
• 22:02
  He says. I don't really get on with
• 22:03
  arcade space. It lacks a certain spark for
• 22:06
  all. It contains some iconic moments
• 22:08
  for me. The supporting characters are
• 22:10
  bland and woodenly acted. I don't agree with that, but I
• 22:16
  know if you are in Doctor Who for like pure entertainment, you
• 22:21
  know, I know one of his favourites is the Twin Dilemma
• 22:24
  looking and and that's just pulpy campy B movie fun.
• 22:29
  Yeah, so it's the complete opposite of this.
• 22:32
  Yeah, I mean, I think there is one actor in this who isn't very
• 22:37
  good at all, and I think that's the guy who plays Libri.
• 22:41
  Oh yeah. No, no, he gave me an order.
• 22:45
  I think he's sorry very quickly though.
• 22:48
  Yes, he does. He gets killed off quickly.
• 22:50
  But again, I think sometimes we as Mr. Not the no, not the mine
• 22:58
  probe. Dr. Oho.
• 23:01
  Excuse me, can you say? That properly please.
• 23:04
  So DRA. Oho.
• 23:06
  OK, I'm going to do it. No, not the mine probe.
• 23:11
  Off you go. Says I'd attribute the bland
• 23:13
  woodness of the characters to the clinical sterility of their
• 23:16
  culture. It's picked up in the sets to
• 23:18
  the harsh white lighting of Nerva, adds a knife edge steeped
• 23:22
  in antiseptic to the claustrophobic, uncomfortable
• 23:24
  atmosphere and horror of the story.
• 23:27
  Oh, that was beautiful. Very good.
• 23:29
  We like you, Doctor. Oh ho.
• 23:31
  You can replace. Jobe, not the lime MO probe you
• 23:34
  need to write a novel. Your prose would be suit.
• 23:37
  It would be better than Ian Martins.
• 23:40
  And let's talk to his, to his, to his credit, says that's a
• 23:44
  very forgiving defence. I have to say it's very kind of
• 23:48
  the king of Joe Konda to take time from absolutely embolizing
• 23:53
  people and to write absolutely. I don't think our minds and
• 23:56
  we're going to be embolized now, so thank goodness.
• 24:00
  He said to me, take care Joe, not to blow size, heart or mind.
• 24:05
  Whatever time is left you on Titan free, do not waste it.
• 24:10
  Drive them to the limit and that was being infected.
• 24:13
  He's been slimed. I can't believe during this
• 24:15
  terrifying sequence you're quoting the Twin Dilemma.
• 24:20
  Life goes this way. But like, OK, I can't believe
• 24:24
  you and I haven't said the obvious thing here.
• 24:28
  Which is. This is, I was about to say, a
• 24:30
  massive Alien RIP off, but this was the the ideas that drove
• 24:35
  Alien into existence. And someone didn't mention this.
• 24:40
  Now let me let me see this. Oh, Sarah's back in action now.
• 24:44
  I've just saw her. We didn't even.
• 24:45
  She's woken up. She has a wonderful bit where
• 24:47
  she goes. What's this?
• 24:50
  What's happening? Do you know what side do you
• 24:57
  think hamster commentaries are? Just our excuse to quote Doctor
• 25:01
  Who died of? Course.
• 25:02
  Well, yeah, I was saying something important.
• 25:08
  Blinding headaches, that's all. I hate stun gums.
• 25:10
  Are we coming up to the end of episode 2?
• 25:18
  This. Thing is, we are it's, yeah,
• 25:19
  it's moved on very. Far.
• 25:20
  Oh no, hang on, we've still got 7 minutes.
• 25:22
  Your favorite's got to be killed yet?
• 25:23
  Oh yeah, he hasn't even arrived yet, has he?
• 25:25
  So. That's how quick they probably
• 25:27
  said, oh, he's a terrible actor, kill him off.
• 25:32
  Oh look, now Kenton Moore is doing his best.
• 25:36
  I am possessed acting now, yes. Matt Foy says how much, if
• 25:42
  anything, did Alien take from this?
• 25:46
  I mean, it is effectively the same story.
• 25:49
  Yep. And we know James Cameron is
• 25:52
  aware of Doctor Who. And is it?
• 25:55
  Did it almost work on Doctor Who?
• 25:57
  No, that was Ridley Scott. Oh, that's what I'm thinking.
• 26:00
  Of who was who directed Alien so.
• 26:04
  One more Saint James Cameron, then.
• 26:06
  Because he directed aliens. OK.
• 26:09
  Thank you. Which?
• 26:11
  Was remade as dragon fire, so Doctor Who got its own back in
• 26:17
  the end. Sorry, that's what I sold myself
• 26:21
  for. Kay, it's Mark.
• 26:22
  I ought to cut my hand off for doing it.
• 26:26
  Stay back, stay away from me. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:32
  Yeah, Oh dear. The latest Rather showcase.
• 26:37
  He's doing all the emoting. Oh, his reactors were normal.
• 26:44
  You remember Commander Noah? Yeah.
• 26:50
  But it's nice now because we do have a good handful of
• 26:53
  characters we've gone from. It's like a chamber piece now,
• 26:56
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 26:57
  Yeah, but there's there's lots more people around.
• 27:03
  He's got his hand in his pocket the whole time as well.
• 27:06
  Yeah, he's hiding something, isn't he?
• 27:09
  And we start to see him breaking a bit.
• 27:15
  You know, what's unfortunate is due to the PG13 nature of Doctor
• 27:19
  Who, June's empty pallet is completely clean.
• 27:24
  And what it should be is yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:30
  And just, you know, and all of that and we can't show none.
• 27:32
  And that's a shame if we if this was being done in the 80s, so.
• 27:38
  Yeah, we'd have had. Yeah, it had at least been
• 27:40
  covered in green snot everywhere.
• 27:42
  That scene of the Ed explosion we would have seen.
• 27:46
  It's just an order. Yeah, I like all of this.
• 27:50
  So I think, yeah. I, I think he's really good.
• 27:52
  I think he he portrays this these this possession really
• 27:58
  well. When people go into acting, this
• 28:00
  is the sort of stuff they want, you know where they're playing
• 28:02
  2. Characters at the same time.
• 28:04
  No, here inside the plan has. Changed but this moment where he
• 28:09
  says but I'm here. I'm June.
• 28:12
  And Bennett makes a very savvy choice to go right in close on
• 28:16
  his. Yeah, and Vyra backing away from
• 28:19
  him. So.
• 28:21
  So this is what we don't learn until Episode 3, do we?
• 28:24
  That if they eat somebody, then they take all their memories?
• 28:29
  But that's Holmes given us early warning.
• 28:32
  Yeah, and it's creepy as fuck. It's really that was a bit that
• 28:38
  really creeped me out as a as a teenager when I first saw this,
• 28:42
  I. Know there's a brilliant
• 28:43
  question about would this exist if Pertwee was in it?
• 28:46
  Because I saw that one. That has Pete.
• 28:49
  It wouldn't. It wouldn't.
• 28:51
  I mean, I just can't imagine John Pertwee.
• 28:54
  No, this is Tom Baker owning this show, and I cannot imagine
• 28:59
  Pertwee striding round in purple velvet or whatever.
• 29:05
  We can play him very seriously, so I think he.
• 29:08
  And he did. But, but I don't.
• 29:12
  Yeah, I'm not sure it would. It's not a Pertwee story.
• 29:15
  And it would be very interesting to have seen Pertwee in a
• 29:19
  Hinchcliff season. This has been his last season,
• 29:21
  per we in Genesis and the Daleks.
• 29:23
  Yeah, at the right, Sarah. I mean, those moral speeches are
• 29:29
  exactly the kind of thing he did, But he played it.
• 29:33
  He would have played it very differently to Tom, actually.
• 29:37
  And I think per we would have been a more reassuring Dr. and a
• 29:41
  more reassuring presence in this story than Tommy's for the kids.
• 29:46
  And I think it wouldn't have been quite maybe felt as nasty.
• 29:51
  I think Pertwee would have objected to this line here where
• 29:53
  he makes light of the fact that June was eaten.
• 29:57
  No, he would have felt a bit uncomfortable.
• 29:58
  Whereas Tom Baker, he's doing that.
• 30:00
  I think the Colin Baker always talks about, isn't it?
• 30:02
  It's like he's saying one thing and he's delivering the emotion
• 30:05
  of something else. Yeah, exactly.
• 30:07
  And like, Pertwee would never have had a line.
• 30:12
  Like if I say I'm afraid, Sarah, I'm not making jokes.
• 30:16
  Yeah. Yeah, it's for Doctor Who.
• 30:20
  This is very, very. June's knowledge has been
• 30:23
  thoroughly digested. And then we've got Sarah there
• 30:27
  to a bit like pyramids and Mars. She's the human being saying.
• 30:30
  Yes, but he doesn't reassure her.
• 30:33
  No, well, he doesn't in pyramids either.
• 30:35
  No. He's an alien.
• 30:39
  You fool Libri, everyone loves a new fool line.
• 30:45
  And the shot where he falls backwards like a mannequin with.
• 30:48
  His arms out wide like words or Gummidge very.
• 30:52
  Very funny. Yeah.
• 30:57
  There was a paddle of yellow lights on the wall just there
• 31:00
  where we saw those in full circle.
• 31:02
  I think, yeah, I think that these all get used again.
• 31:05
  Here we go. And you know, if I want to try,
• 31:11
  that's how I want to go. And then we get this astonishing
• 31:20
  cliffhanger that shouldn't work, but because the arm doesn't feel
• 31:26
  like it's part of the actor, it's doing its own thing.
• 31:33
  I think he just sells it as well.
• 31:35
  Yeah. I mean, you and me, we love
• 31:40
  Williams, Doctor Who, but if this was being played in
• 31:42
  Williams, Doctor Who, I don't think you'd have the the
• 31:46
  appropriate gravity to sell, no. No, I think the acting sells it.
• 31:52
  And the look of horror on his face as he sees it.
• 31:55
  And it's just the rising up slowly of the hand.
• 31:59
  And yeah, it's bubble wrap. Yeah, we all know there's lots
• 32:03
  of questions about the bubble wrap and is it a problem?
• 32:07
  Does it work? Does it take you out of the
• 32:08
  story? No.
• 32:12
  I no, I think you know what? This is where the ultimate
• 32:16
  argument of Doctor Who is, is can you buy into the world's
• 32:21
  that they are producing on a tiny budget and enjoy the show?
• 32:26
  Yes, watch Classic Who. No, please don't watch Classic
• 32:30
  Who because you're going to be consistently disappointed.
• 32:34
  Well, exactly. And if you're going in looking
• 32:36
  for those problems, then you'll find them and it will take you
• 32:39
  out of it. But when I was a kid, I didn't
• 32:42
  see bubble wrap. I saw.
• 32:43
  I saw an. Alien flesh.
• 32:45
  Yeah, exactly. And I think, I wonder if it was
• 32:48
  a presentation of the show, you know, being so serious that.
• 32:51
  Yeah, I think that's it. And it's again, like we said,
• 32:54
  it's Ken some more selling it by making it feel alien and weird.
• 33:01
  Yeah. Oh, that's amazing.
• 33:02
  Well, look, you said you've got some questions about bubble
• 33:04
  wrap. Right, let's have a look and
• 33:11
  where are we? As you're looking, I shall
• 33:13
  regale everybody with incidental music from the arc in space.
• 33:27
  Andy Parkinson. Hello, Andy.
• 33:29
  Sorry, says people often point out the bubble wrap.
• 33:33
  Does this ever take you out of the story?
• 33:35
  It doesn't for me. Well, we just answered that.
• 33:37
  No, not. We are not that shallow, Andy
• 33:40
  Parkinson. No.
• 33:46
  So yeah, it was Pete who asked how do you think this would have
• 33:49
  worked if PERT we had got his pay rise and stayed for one more
• 33:52
  year? I think we probably would have
• 33:55
  had another year of what we've had in that vein.
• 34:01
  Pete said goes on to say maybe Harry and Sarah would have ended
• 34:05
  up more like Gambit and Purdy from the New Avengers and
• 34:10
  handling the action when Pertwee is not because his his back is
• 34:14
  playing up and so he's not quite so physical.
• 34:16
  So maybe Harry would still have been introduced to handle some
• 34:20
  of that and take that off. And he says I can see Pertwee
• 34:23
  striding round with a cane while the youngsters do the diving and
• 34:27
  the rolling around. No, I'm seeing a new Avengers
• 34:31
  esque sequence with Sarah and Harry.
• 34:33
  And you know from that bit where Gambit goes into Purdy's room,
• 34:38
  she's in the bed, but it's a bit, it goes into the wall and
• 34:41
  he presses the button. Come on, you've got to wake up
• 34:44
  and she's going. No, no, no, I'm still sleeping.
• 34:46
  Go away. Presses the button, Stephen.
• 34:48
  Yeah, Stephen Flanagan goes on to say.
• 34:50
  I can't see Pertwee's ego standing for that, for what he'd
• 34:53
  have seen as a rival to his action hero.
• 34:57
  Yeah, possibly. Bigger and remember, this is
• 35:00
  only a year after he got rid of April Walker.
• 35:03
  It is an enticing idea though, the thought of per wee in this
• 35:07
  story. Yeah, it's one of those great,
• 35:10
  great mystery things, isn't it, You know?
• 35:14
  Anymore for anymore. It's the end of Episode 2, when
• 35:19
  Noah gazes at his alien hands. One of the great
• 35:22
  underappreciated Doctor Who cliffhangers, says Daniel
• 35:26
  Rawnsley. Hello, Daniel.
• 35:28
  You said lovely things about me. I like you.
• 35:32
  Under appreciate, yeah, because it's sort of mocked so.
• 35:35
  Yeah, I think it's more mocked than it is is loved, but I bet
• 35:38
  it scared the kids to death. In a way, do you know what?
• 35:42
  In a way, it's a shame they didn't just use some form of
• 35:44
  makeup on the hand, you know? And then I think it's just
• 35:48
  because it's bubble wrap. My Gareth Murtagh says and if
• 35:55
  all the sleepers need a hypo when they revive, then how was
• 35:58
  Phyra supposed to give it to herself?
• 36:00
  Or June for that matter. Oh.
• 36:02
  Yeah, because she's sort of reaching out, like she's saying
• 36:05
  give me the hypo, you know? Yeah, Yeah, he didn't.
• 36:09
  I don't know. No, we didn't think that one
• 36:11
  through. Sorry.
• 36:15
  So, yeah. And we'll, we'll, we'll come
• 36:17
  back to some more questions. In Part 3.
• 36:21
  In Part 3.