Latest / Stories from the shore / Episode 2 Kaylee's Time in Georgia

Transcript

Episode 2 Kaylee's Time in Georgia · Stories from the shore

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome back to Stories from the Shore.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Once again, we are not in the van.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: We are by the river still, though.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: I am joined once again by my wife, Kaylee.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: So when we start the podcast, we like to give a pretty good whoop-ya in uh sort of remembrance of the North Shore.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to give us our best whoop-yah and we can get going here, Kaylee.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, I'm gonna back up from this mic.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whoop-yah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's something.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Normally I say a good yep haw.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's sort of a tradition uh some of us have on the shore, just to give like an adrenaline dump before we go run hard white water.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um so thank you for that, Kaylee.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so uh I think to get started, you're gonna give us a story here in a little bit, but you just want to give a kind of a brief background on your paddling experience so people know kind of who you are.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll kind of incorporate just in general, kind of where I started, enjoying the water kind of life thing.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I did grow up in Wisconsin, similar to Jeremiah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my early childhood and really even into most of college was really on flat water.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: My family has a cabin up in Barnes, Wisconsin that's on a lake.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then um my grandma and grandpa Gigi had a house in Gleason, which is actually not too far from where I live now in Wausau, and my siblings and I spent a lot of our summers up at Gigi's place on the lake.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So my childhood has a lot of fond memories, specifically of fishing, swimming, going in kayaks and canoes, but really until I was in grad school, um, I didn't experience a lot of whitewater.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So to kind of put things in perspective, I was um at Carroll University and did my undergrad, and I went to PT school there, which in PT school is kind of where I had an opportunity that has shaped truly the rest of my life.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I started volunteering for an organization called Team River Runner, and I believe I started volunteering for that in 2016.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it was the summer of 2016, possibly the tw the summer of 2017.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to kind of really look back, but essentially almost 10 years ago, I was introduced to Craig Esposito, which a lot of us at the Whitewater community know.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what we did for Team River Runner was take veterans out on the water.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of really focused on basically um like PTSD recovery, safety and inclusion in the water.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a way that while I was in grad school to take a break from studying and kind of give back.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to get in my first whitewater boat during a Team River Runner event um on a Wednesday night, and kind of that core group for me to start were me, my best friend Ashley, formerly and still known as Scoops.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll hear about Scoops quite a bit, especially in my stories.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, a bunch of high school boys.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So these high school boys were uh Ethan, Kyle, and Sam, along with um Sam's dad Larry, was quite a big part of it, our friend Gary, and then Keller, who Jeremiah had known for years as well.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of fun that we had a lot of shared people in the Whitewater community before we even knew each other.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: But essentially, my first time in a playboat was on Lower Genesee Lake, and I learned to roll for the first of many times I've learned to roll.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that was just a time where it was my most carefree night of the week.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was the one time I didn't study for PT school, I didn't think about PT school.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just went to the lake with my friends and we boated and it was wonderful.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that led into um the team river runner event up at the Wasa Whitewater Park, which now I get to kind of co-lead with Craig and LT.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really been kind of a full moment um, you know, where I've started to where I'm at now.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: But essentially, Scoops and I got recruited from Craig for a weekend to come up to Wassa, Wisconsin.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never been to Wassau unless, you know, as a child, probably visiting Grandma and Grandpa Gigi.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: We may have got to get groceries in Wausau.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: But besides that, we came up for that weekend and spent it volunteering.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: We did a ton on land, getting the duo boats going, organizing everyone.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then on Sunday, Craig goes, Hey, do you guys want to be participants?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I got into a whitewater kayak for the first time, got paired up with Andy as my instructor, and that is where I was introduced to the world of ferrying and eddying and just basic river navigation, and it was something that really ignited a spark in me and that I loved.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that became kind of a yearly thing to do, and I remember coming up to a couple releases.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I had clinicals and rotations in grad school, so I was actually gone for the summer of 2018 in Colorado and didn't get to go.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of like a big miss for me that I really missed coming up here.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And during that time, I actually came back finishing grad school that um fall and met Jeremiah when I was rock climbing with Craig.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of cool that the person who introduced me to Whitewater was my climbing buddy.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: He introduced me to my now husband, and then going into 2019 is kind of when Jeremiah and I started getting more serious, and we moved to North Carolina.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the Whitewater Park wasn't really a part of our lives until we moved back to Wisconsin in the beginning of 2022, correct?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So well, for you, I was at the Whitewater Park a lot before.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so for me though, I mean, I really was only in the Whitewater scene for a small bit of time.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um between 2019 and 2022, when I moved back though, I actually really got into rafting.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So living out in North Carolina, I went and rafted at um the New River, and I became a member at the um park in Charlotte.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's the name of that park?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the Charlotte Outdoor Center, National Outdoor Center.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it might be NLC Charlotte.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Regardless, it is a man-made, um, it's a man-made rapid course, I guess you could call it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where when I moved to North Carolina, Jeremiah wasn't with me for the first year, actually, and I didn't have a big community or friends.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of Friday nights, I would drive myself over to Charlotte and go listen to music, and I'd go rafting by myself with just random strangers, and I loved it so much.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I've also rafted in Colorado and other places too.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I really had a blast doing that, and it kind of translated into just like my love for being in the water, but I've learned pretty quickly that I like being able to leave the boat or vessel I'm in much faster than you can in a whitewater kayak.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me still holds true.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oftentimes you'll find me trying to get in a raft or boogie board or avoid being strapped in by my skirt, but nonetheless, the rafting um time I had really does make me excited, especially for some trips we want to take in the future in a raft.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's just the national whitewater center, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds sounds right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that I I think that that's just what it's called.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you mentioned that you prefer to raft, obviously.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you consider yourself a whitewater kayaker?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because of your definitions and the way you've defined it, I think you're just a kayaker.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think whitewater has this like stigma or this name people think, but once I actually started going down rivers that had different classes of water, and I was able to define those more, I would definitely say, like, yes, I'm a whitewater kayaker because like class two is still whitewater, like class three, class four, class five, whatever it is, like you are still on the water.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, this is kind of jumping to the end of like what I've learned, but like being a whitewater kayaker doesn't mean you have to be a certain like class boater or do certain amount of tricks while playboating, or you know, do a certain number of rivers.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just somebody who enjoys being on the water in whatever capacity they want, and that's what I'm starting to kind of really refine as I keep boating.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, fast forward to 2022, we moved back to Wisconsin.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: We spend every single weekend that the Whitewater course is open up in Wassau.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd got married that year.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: We really were like, okay, let's buy a house.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're living near Milwaukee and realizing very quickly that the type of lifestyle we wanted did not correlate to living in Milwaukee.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, in all the places we talked about moving, I really wanted to move back out west.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I lived in Washington, Nevada, Colorado.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love it out west.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the mountains are my favorite, and kind of what I've learned from being married to you, living with you is yes, beautiful places are wonderful, but one, the affordability and accessibility can be really limited, but also like having your community and your people close by is also really important to do the things you love.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we had decided to look more at Wisconsin, and you brought up Wassau, and I was like, are you crazy?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't know anyone in Wausau.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would we stay in Wisconsin and move two and a half hours from both our families?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's so dumb.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll uh I kind of want you to interject and just like explain how did we end up in Wausau?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, so I was at the Whitewater Park for a uh for a release.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was my bachelor party at the same time, and you just looked at some of the um like a couple houses in town, and in the morning you were like, hey, I like this one, you should look at it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I looked at it, not totally there, and we put in an offer and we got the house.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: That was kind of summed up how we ended up here, really.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we were looking at houses a little bit of Milwaukee and they were kind of too expensive anyway.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we looked at you know, two here and they were move-inable.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you didn't want to live in the the king of the trailer park house, so we didn't put in an offer on that one, and they accepted our offer right away.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was actually kind of crazy because at that time I um we were packing up the van, I think probably coming up to a release, and I was having like really bad stomach pain, ended up having to get my appendix out that night, and because of that, I was off work for four or six weeks just because of being a PTA, you need to have a certain lifting capacity for patient safety.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And during that time frame, I like applied to get like pre-approved for a mortgage and do all the like back work.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of just like knew what our budget was.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: We were like thinking between five different places, and I was actually hanging out with Ashley Bethke, who she's a boater, and her husband, um Will Bethke is as well.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we were bored just chilling because we couldn't go to the Whitewater Park because Jeremia was having his bachelor party and I was forbidden to go for a while.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So she was like, Hey, do you want to go look at this open house?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we literally bought that house.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So us moving to Wausau was you know a little bit about affordability, but like really, I think having the Whitewater Park shaped where we moved and just accessibility to other things.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we moved here in the summer of 2023, and the last three summers, we have spent a lot of time at the Whitewater Park.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also was able to join the board with Jeremiah a couple years ago, so we've been able to take a little bit more active role with that, which to me has been a nice way to also support and just like learn about our Whitewater community and like what we want.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in that time frame, I've gotten a lot more comfortable in my boat, almost a little too comfortable in the sense of I can play it really safe so I don't have to flip over.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say that's true, Jeremiah?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess I I'm not really sure what you mean by that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that if we took like three trips down the Whitewater course in town, I think you would swim once.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I actively avoid the places where I know I'd swim, so that way I can have many releases staying upright in my boat.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think there's some pros and cons to that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like where I'm at right now is I have a uh Rockstar 4.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have a playboat.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I actually won it in the raffle in I think 2023 after our Midwest freestyle competition.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that was actually really exciting.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a Mamba Creek boat.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you probably wouldn't call it a creek boat, but you know, river running boat.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And my friend and pal Austin has told me that I've outgrown my mamba and I really need to get my butt in some other boats now because I have learned to um play it a little bit more safe.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of know which features I like to play at.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I like to um just work on some basic river navigation, but my biggest issue has been in the years that I've been kayaking, I've had two pretty major shoulder surgeries, and that really took uh the role that I had when I first learned and made it uncomfortable and almost a little scary for me.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have never been someone who loved being underwater.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would not call myself the strongest swimmer and or breath holder, but I think for me, I have not put the time in like you did early on to just get comfortable being upside down and rolling.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you put me in flat water in a boat, can I roll it, you know, 50 to 75% of the time?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it really depends on the day for me now.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm in my head or not feeling comfortable, I'm not rolling.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Other days, I'll hit my roll a lot more.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm at a very unique part, I feel like, in my whitewater career where I do need to get my butt in my boat.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I need to just get my role consistent and my opportunities will open up, especially when it comes to the playboating realm.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think a lot of people have uh used playboating as sort of their excuse to get a role that is consistent because you just flip over a lot.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really a way around that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even really good playboaters are upside down like half the time.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they do it on purpose, but like still.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and for me, um, this this spring I got to um experience four new rivers, and I was pretty proud to say I did not swim or flip over on any single one of them.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: But also for me to really expand and stretch and grow as a kayaker, I need to be comfortable upside down.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what that barrier like overcoming it looks like for me yet, besides maybe really investing in pool sessions over the winter.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I do want to point that out because I think from an outward perspective, especially people who aren't in the kayaking community, they're like, oh, like Kaylee is a kayaker and that's so cool, but like I really battle a lot of internal like anxiety and worry about water.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the people who know me in the water, especially like my close friends, know that about me.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hoping that you know, doing this podcast, hearing these stories, and just like being able to acknowledge the fun I've had as well, kind of helps push me to that next step.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it definitely can't, I don't think it'll hurt.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's great.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you you said that you do think that you're a whitewater kayaker.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you mentioned rafting.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that you're a rafter?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, have I rafted?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Am I a rafter?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I don't know how to answer that question.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I uh don't own my own raft and have my own set of gear, and I haven't done like mega big raft trips on my own.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you were like, hey, I pulled a permit, we're rafting the Grand Canyon or the salmon or something, I'd be like, sweet, let's go.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, cool.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's a great, that's a solid background, maybe not so brief.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh do you have any stories in mind that you would like to tell?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and before I do that, I do want to mention one other thing that I think um kind of sets me, you know, like in a unique stance is that the way I've learned the river at the Whitewater Pars is park is not in my kayak first, it is on a boogie board.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have gone down that full river more times head first in the water than I have on a kayak, and I actually prefer it that way, which is which is um quite the opposite of everybody else that I talk to.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: They don't prefer to be swimming, but when I have my board and my flippers on, I feel invincible in the water.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's because I feel like I can maneuver easier, but that is uh another thing that I feel like will come up in some of my stories, is just how I do like being physically in the water compared to being in my kayak.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do seem to take a lot of people down and your boogie board too.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's kind of a nice way or more accessible way for some people uh that maybe are a little bit more nervous about like strapping into the kayak or uh you know being in that disoriented upside down feeling.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that that definitely can be a great option.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um we even took how old was uh Tony?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think I think he is in his early 80s.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say 83.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he is like a walker.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we we had to like help him stand and get in the water, and we were able to get him down on a boogie board.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's definitely an accessible option.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think we got him in the tandem ducky as well.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a veteran, so for a few years, um he back in his day, I think was a part of um an Olympic safety team actually for kayakers on a boogie board.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So for him, he loves his opportunity each year to get in the water, and I'm always the one paired with him, which is hilarious to me that I'm like, all right, here we go, Tony.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna figure out how to get down this river together, and I'll do my best kicking.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So this year is nice kind of having you on board with me.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, another great way that I've explored the water and gotten to see rivers is in our duo, and I know I'm probably not your favorite duo partner, and you can kind of you know laugh and explain that, but another um really good way that I've explored Whitewater is in a duo kayak.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, you know, getting an experience between rec boating and my kayaks and the duo, the boogie board, rafts, tandem, first single.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like to say I'm a very, very um well-adverse beginner.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd very much consider myself a beginner still.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you have a large, a wide variety of crafts you've taken down the river.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do you did have any of them led to like a specific story that you'd like to share?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I will um kind of let you pick which one of my like probably two bigger stories.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have a wreckboat story out on uh let's see, Lake Powell?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or I do have a recent story from Alabama on the Chatta the Chattahoochee this year.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Which one do you think you'd like to hear first, Jeremiah?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think we should probably kick things off of the Whitewater story and then kind of come back maybe at another time for the other story.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's laughing because it's so good.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so how would you like me to um tell this story?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's no place to start like the beginning, so set the stage for you.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Strap in everybody, the story's gonna go very different than what you would expect.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, we have gotten to know the Hargrove family over the last few years with their presence at the Wassau Whitewater Park.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone knows me, You know that he is stoked, like always stoked, and wants to share any knife experience with you.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So he's really talking up his home river and his home stretch in Georgia.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's probably the second most stoked paddler I've ever met, behind only Adrian.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And him and I got to really bond over karaoke and some some lessons this last year where he did teach me to roll again.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, his whole family, they have been incredible to us and just really fun.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So between him and his sisters and his parents, they're like, you guys are welcome down to Georgia anytime.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And most people are like, Oh yeah, cool, we'll do it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But like, if you know me, if somebody was like, Hey, do you want to go on a trip?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or hey, will you come over?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, if I say yes, I'm coming.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's true.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do want to mention, I think before we go any further, I think that they're competing right like today, or last or just yesterday, maybe in Poland right now.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, representing Team USA.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully that's going great for them.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think Mason's out with a shoulder injury, it looks like, but he's coaching and supporting the girls, and um yeah, I'm really excited to see how they do, and it's been fun following them.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, we had the opportunity, and as Jeremiah mentioned in our beginning episode, we have a van.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is a 22-foot-long Ford Transit cargo van that we bought completely bare bones, empty, and we have renovated it ourselves into a camper.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who know our van, it has two seats, two actual seats, okay?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: The driver and the passenger.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what it also has is a bed, really comfortable bed.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it has seats in the back too.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, probably we're we'll record from there soon.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I got it all figured out so we can do that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're little bucket seats, you know, table can pull out from under the bed, not seat belt approved, you know.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, I'm thinking, okay, if we go to Georgia, we have to drive our van.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremiah and I have drove this van across the country into Canada, and we have spent like 80 plus hours on one trip in it, and it's a lot of driving.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we both do not have a lot of PTO, and we have a very short amount of time we can go to Georgia if we do this.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we're like, all right, especially this year.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: We picked a time, January, because it's cold here, nowhere to kayak, but down there you have an opportunity daily.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, supposedly the weather's nice and there's river water in the winter.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that we could leave after work, I think on a Thursday, but we had to be back to work on Monday.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think it was a we leave Thursday after work and we're home Sunday night, correct?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we might have left on Wednesday.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, we for sure left on Thursday.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know if we had to be back on a Sunday or Monday.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure we had to be back a Sunday.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that we drove, we were planning on driving on Monday.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a holiday or something.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was not a holiday, it was January.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Nonetheless, like maybe two to three days for this trip.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a 17-hour drive.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we recruit two of our buddies, um, Jeremy and Willie, and we're like, hey, do you guys want to go kayak with us?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they both said yes.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the trip starts out what I would consider pretty successful.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: We pick up Jeremy, pick up Willie, all four of us drive down to um like the Alabama-Georgia border straight through.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And on Thursday night.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was Thursday night.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we drove overnight, and what's nice about the van is if you're not driving, you can be sleeping.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we had two little pods, and it's kind of funny how it worked out.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: My pod was me and Jeremy.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremiah and Willie were buddies.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So me and Jeremy would be sleeping, Willie and Jeremiah would be driving.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then we kind of did a flooparoo.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Jeremy and I started the trip because I'm not a night owl and I wanted to get my portion done first.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we all drove our four and a half hours.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: On the trip down, we stop at this gas station.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Bucky's?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Bucky's?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Even calling it a gas station feels like a little underwhelming.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is a wild place.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Bucky's?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if you know Bucky's, this is my first experience.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I love a good brisket.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I am a brisket girl.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: This may have been from the brisket.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't, but this is like where I think my doom started.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I get a brisket burrito.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And like 10 pounds of candy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just not 10.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Probably five.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like mowing down on this trip.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So like we're in the van, you know, going in 17 hours, and me and Jeremy.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And Jeremy's really good at eating junk food with me, and we just like eat and eat and eat, and I kind of have a stomachache.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so from like my perspective, I drove until the sun came up and then went to sleep and woke up and there was like I mean, a like a bag full of candy wrappers.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this buildup is like very necessary to what happens next.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we get to the hargroves kind of what mid-morning, like 11 maybe a.m would be my guess.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it must have been.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like an 18-hour drive, probably took us 19.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we left after work, so that would have put us sometime, you know, middle of the day.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we take about like one to two hours, I'd say total, like getting there, saying hi, just kind of like settling in, and Mason's like, let's go kayak.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I do not feel well, like I feel very unwell, like my stomach hurts, I just feel kind of queasy.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I told the guys, I'm like, hey, like, I don't feel very good.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, you're fine, it's just the nerves.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, as we're packing, it's getting worse.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or the candy.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so getting worse.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, maybe it's definitely, you know, I ate some candy.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we get in Mason's truck, all get our dry suits on, get down to the river, and they're gonna go run shuttle, and they leave me at the pudding, and I am like unwell.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've have stomach cramps, and Jeremy's trying to talk me off a cliff here.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I can't go, you guys just have to leave me.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way I can get on.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna puke.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, it's just your nerves, it's just your nerves.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is your first time getting in a new water, like so.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Nonetheless, these boys, it's Jeremiah, Jeremy, Willie, Mason, and myself.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, You have to get on the river.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Okay, at any time, can I leave easily?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yeah, no problem.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we're in Columbus.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is the what is that, the Chattahoochee, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so this is the section that like goes through town.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we get on, and Mason uh leads us down, and I basically am like, Mason, go down.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna follow exactly what you do.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have no time to fuck around because I feel terrible.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: So he had me do two rolls first before we even go.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: I hit my rolls and I'm like, okay, whoo, let's go.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just rolled twice, like, I'm ready.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we go down the first feature, and I pull in the Eddie and don't move.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like the boys are playing at the feature, having a good time, and I'm doing everything I can to just like breathe and just be like, okay, we gotta just take it one rapid at a time.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Get down.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we keep going.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, this is the first time that I've gone down.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say probably rapids of this size continuously.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Jeremiah disagree because at this point I'd already done The Wolf.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had been on um what's Cozures on?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Did you kayak the Peshtigo or just I funny it, but I got to experience like on my own, just like you know, going down some features.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the rapids that you paddled on the Chattahoochee probably stepped down from the peshtigo if memory serves.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's been at least 10 years since I've been on the pestego, but um but it was in my kayak.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So first rapids for me, I feel like in my kayak outside of the Wolf River at this point.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you you walk two rapids, I think, right?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, just one.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just one.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know the name of the rapid I walked, but here's the preface of it.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mason wanted me to just full send.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get on the river, his mom Melissa's like, Mason, do not just have her blindly send this, like let her get out and scope it.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad she did, because as we got out scouting it, that feeling of being unwell got real for me.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And at this point, I had to just crawl on the rocks and I started projectile vomiting on the rocks.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was ready to be done because I can't hold my crap together.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: The boys are in the water, they all go down, and they're waiting for me for probably half an hour, thinking I'm acting ridiculous, how slow I'm moving on these rocks to get back to my kayak.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: What was going through your head during that time, Jeremiah?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was like not even 10 minutes.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: By the time we ran it, and then like Mason just walked back up to paddle your boat down because he was the one that could fit in it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it were really we didn't really wait.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: It probably just felt like a long time.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like an eternity up there because I just couldn't like get off my hands and knees on those rocks.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was about to walk out and they wouldn't let me.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: They said, you know, Kayleigh, you have to get back in your boat and finish the rapids because it's a long hike from here.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was like one of those circumstances where she could have walked like a quarter mile on the rocks and like just struggled through it, or she could have just like floated down.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when he says float down, I think we still had two more rapids, and the last one was the biggest rapid for sure of the day.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yes, I guess.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it was the biggest rapid, maybe the biggest one you paddled, but it was also like non it was like not a big deal for the rest of the group.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I'm like, what if I puke upside down in the water?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, will I will I inhale?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Will I drown?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like a little panicked now because I still feel terrible.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm puking, and so I have to get back in this boat.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, we need to just get off this river.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we finish paddling, we are getting out of the river, and the way you exit the river for the run we did, you get out on these concrete steps, like pretty big platform steps.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're each one's like three feet.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like in my boat, crawling out, and I start projectile vomiting in the river, like profusely.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: She says in the river, like in the eddy that she's standing in.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like taking off my gear, and Jeremy's like yelling at me because he's like, Kaylee, stop putting your gear downriver.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So as I'm puking, like all my puke is going in my gear downriver, and Jeremy's like picking it up and trying to shake it out and bring it upriver.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was just a disaster.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone's kind of trying to help, get all my stuff, and this guy paddles back by as I'm mid-puke, and he goes, Ooh, did you have a nasty swim?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Jeremy's like, No, she's actually really sick.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my first experience going down a new river, and I have never been in more pain and discomfort in my life.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to sum up the rest of the weekend, I'll go back.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to at least, we're not, you gotta at least get to the car.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that part's critical to the story.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm in a dry suit and I crawl up the three feet like individual steps.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're big.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was having knee problems, and I I was like almost needed help to get up them.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was bad.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I get to the top and I was like, I can't make it any further, I need to rest.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I lay in the fetal position on the grass while the boys pack everything and get the truck.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like a huge liability on this trip at this point.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we I go to get in the truck, and they're like, something smells like shit.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like bad when we like can't figure it out.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Turns out I laid in the only crap pile of dog crap, so I had poop like smeared on me.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Literally rolled in dog poop in my dry suit.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Mason goes, You can't get in my truck.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, obviously.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What do you mean I can't get in the truck?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sick, I need to get in the truck.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and you're like, You're covered in poop.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I can't go in the back, you guys.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is impossible.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think I mustered up enough energy to get out of my dry suit so that I could get in the truck.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we had to change.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, we went in the um, what's that that guide shop right there called?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Whitewater Express.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they were great.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: They they helped us out a little bit.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So from then on, the rest of the trip, I was either in the bathroom on the floor or in the hospital.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we're gonna leave it at that.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: I got the norovirus.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the Hargroves were so kind to let me stay in their house during literally the worst weekend of my entire life.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I'm invited back and can show them like I can be fun and not just puke on everything.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, they really were stellar.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sad I was sick for the entire trip.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we ended up having to leave like kind of early because there was a huge ice storm predicted.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: So like we're leaving as I still have this norovirus after I was in the hospital.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: We were planning on leaving that Monday and then getting home Monday night.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but instead there was this big ice storm rolling across the whole country, so we decided to leave.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like kind of at the worst possible time.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: On Sunday.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because one person had to work, and like we were just concerned like we would get stuck there an extra day or something.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we left that we left Sunday with the storm like halfway across the country.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna let you tell how how that went for us.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we left, it started to rain, um, and then pretty much once we hit the Georgia, is that Georgia Alabama line, I think, it was when the rain sort of turned to ice and snow and or really just ice.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh again, we were like trying to trade off driving, and I was like just exhausted at this point because this weekend um just turned chaotic for me.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had driven all night on the way down, and then I had to take Kayla to the hospital the second night, and then I like took a nap and we paddled a little bit, but the water was low, and then we were like right back into driving, so I was like, I'm gonna take the first shift so I can sleep for a while.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I drove for a while, went laid down, and like immediately the roads turned like impassable.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think Willie was like gonna take the second driving shift, and uh they closed the interstate at one point, so you couldn't drive further.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we were in Tennessee at this point.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and what and while we were on literally parked on the interstate just waiting, you know, talking to the truck driver next to us and stuff.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we were using Google Maps to like sort of guide us home.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And those guys were when they when we started driving again, you know, after they salted and whatnot, they just like click go, and because the interstate was closed, uh Google told told them to get off, and they like pulled off, and we were driving on these mountain backroads, and then we like started sliding backwards down a hill, and I had to like physically push the van to keep it on the road.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and he's like not emphasizing what that moment felt like for us.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: We were both in the bed, and Jeremy and Willie were in the driver's seat, and he's going up a hill, and like the van just stops up the hill and just starts sliding, like just backwards down this hill, and then starts like going to the side.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to give Willie credit here because he somehow freaking kept us on the road, but like I'm in the back, and the van is like spinning out a little bit here, and we ended completely like perpendicular to the road on the side of this like ledge, sheer ice, and Jeremiah and I had to get out of the van.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: I got out of the van because I was beyond mad because I'm like, you guys are literally gonna crash our van and we're in the middle of nowhere, and it's the middle of the night.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Jeremiah and I had to push the van to get it on the road a little bit more straight while we navigated to get down, and it was definitely the most terrifying drive of my life.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: While I had the norovirus, mind you, and we were stranded on the interstate, so the only option to go to the bathroom was to go outside on the interstate.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna let you use your imagination for that one.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was wild.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: I like I don't want to exaggerate too much, but I think that I literally was able to push the van on the road.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was that I think it was literally that slick because I could like put my feet in the shoulder where there was a little bit of snow.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was wild.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: So then we like slept overnight, we made everybody sleep in the van.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: The people on the floor were like maybe a little bit colder than everybody else.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Me and Jeremia definitely had the luxury, but I'm like, well, sorry, I've got the noravirus, I get to bed.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then we just drove home basically all day on Monday.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was still crappy weather, literally until the weather was fine, but the snow was already there.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it was crap until Chicago, honestly.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's the South does not know how to handle it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: When once we hit Nashville-ish, it turned to snow instead of ice.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: So then it was like, you know, there was a couple cities where it hadn't even plowed yet.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: We were having a hard time finding places to eat, even.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it definitely was like a whole experience.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I um I definitely need to redeem myself on um an east trip.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I did go out east the year prior with um a friend Kate.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Her and I went to a women's paddle fest in North Carolina led by Anna Levesque, and that was like such an amazing weekend, and I'll you know tell my stories from there on another time, but at least I know that I successfully can get out east or down south and paddle and get home without severe conflict because that was a very trying weekend, let me tell you.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything you think you learned from that experience?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I definitely know the difference between feeling nervous and being sick now because I do get nervous and like I know that sounds silly, but there's very much um a difference, and honestly, the biggest thing I learned from that experience is like there's a way to push yourself like beyond what you think you can do, but also like listening to your body, like I am much more willing now if I'm feeling off or not feeling it, like I used to let FOMO take over.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have less FOMO, like I will just not kayak if I'm not feeling it, but also trusting the people in your group to take care of you and help you is huge.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, like you guys got me down that river, still in a safe capacity.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I felt like crap, but I also was really proud of myself, and you like high-five me, like you navigated that river good, like you eddied out great, you ferried great, and I'm like, yeah, because I just wanted to be done.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of things came out of that weekend, and honestly, it made me appreciate you as my spouse and a paddler as well.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I really um would like to go back at some time.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a little nervous because you know, I don't want to get sick again on the way down.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not stopping at Bucky's.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I I think that we mention it maybe in passing when we talk about the people we paddle with or like the choices we make, and and it's hard to kind of put it together the full picture of why you know, why some people paddle together and why some people don't, or like why certain groups seem to be people's favorites, and it's hard to really explain that.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then immediately after that, she was like, Oh, I totally see like it makes a huge difference when you're like in those situations that you don't want to be in and got to navigate your way out to have people, you know, like Willie, who didn't crash the van, who was able to like keep it on the road, um, and to have Jeremy who was willing to just like sit in the bathroom while I had like had to physically sleep because I couldn't survive.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Jeremy literally nurtured me the entire time that Jeremia couldn't, and then he got sick on the way home and was puking in the van.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I took care of him.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: But like it really does speak numbers, and like the entire Hargo family, like literally let me crash on their couch all day, all night, like they well, to be fair, you're only on the couch for like 20 minutes.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, just like being surrounded by a community at like when you feel your worst is really important, and um honestly I'm surprised how good I did on that river for how I felt.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do you think that experience changed you in any way?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean it led me to doing three other rivers after that because I was like, oh, like this is what whitewater kayaking is like when you go down rivers.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it can be like it is kind of fun and pretty and different, and so it kind of led me into the rest of my season.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is fun.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's really also that um that community is awesome.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, being right next to downtown, you you aren't feeling good, so we didn't really get to experience it in the same way.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: But like when Goodwave comes in, you can like literally walk from the river to a restaurant and then back again if you want.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um I that's just such a such an awesome place.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not very often I I say that living in another place where we paddle basically through downtown.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's not very often that you get to like have that experience uh where you're like around people in a you know a city that really embraces the Whitewater community in the way that they have.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I've definitely I think what's um just kind of cool, like full circle is getting to hear your experiences and stories, you know, at the level you're at, and then like bringing it down to like my level, like new people yeah, turning a class two trip into something chaotic.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, new people are like just as a part of the Whitewater community as like the veteran ones, and like our experiences on the river are vastly different on the same trip.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny to hear.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I noticed this kind of when I transitioned from like a class three boater and started to push myself into class four.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it sort of has I I think of it in my head as like the big fish, uh, the big fish effect where the story that you hear as a class two, three boater is not the same story you hear later when you're like, oh, I was there that day, and that was not really a hole.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: You just like ran it upside down.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, you know, that huge wave you're talking about was like a you know a two-foot standing green wave.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you're like comparing that with your other experiences where you're like, oh, I've like surfed 12-foot waves before.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is not a like a big thing.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny to um I think it's fun to experience those things and then hear other people's stories, and then you have a better frame of reference to go back to, and then you can be like, you know, what were they talking about?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, yeah, that was definitely they're underselling this trip, you know, that kind of thing.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do you think you'll paddle that river again?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think the fact that we have friends and connections down there, absolutely I'd go back.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny, uh, like in your story, that could definitely scar somebody in a way that they're like, I'm never going back just because of that.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I think in other stories I'm sure we'll hear in the future.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think people will have experiences that could just like scar them away from a river, you know, depending on what exactly happened.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I think it'll be interesting to hear other people's takes on that, on that same question.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the differences though, is like the river wasn't the problem, you know.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think if I had like the river caused these issues, or like if I was puking because I had a bad swim, I think I'd feel very different than like coming into a situation already sick.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that that distinction is as obvious to everybody as as you maybe think it is.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe maybe you're right.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe everybody will be able to be like, well, that wasn't the river's fault, and they'll, you know, everybody will want to go back and do the same thing.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I bet that there'll be some stories that people tell where they're like, Yeah, I just I'm I'm never gonna go back, regardless.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: My joke with myself, and I tell my friend Catherine often is, yeah, this week I thought I was gonna just quit being a kayaker, so we'll just see where I'm at.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: And she tells me I can't quit, so I haven't quit yet.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I'm like, maybe I'm just not a kayaker.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really that's a really fun story in hindsight.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of awful in person.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you have any like rivers or goals in paddling that you're looking forward to going forward?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I think a big goal for me is actually more of a raft trip just because um as we've vacationed together, like just you and I and with friends, we have really centered our vacations around like hiking and mountains and things that I enjoy.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's really um important to you to get some more white water on our trips, and I think the best way for me to start doing that is to try like a multi-day overnight um rafting trip.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, my biggest goal would be seeing us like get out in Idaho or something where I can experience that to see if that's something I really want to incorporate more in our like future trips, just because do I see myself as a class four or five voter?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, even though you think that'd be a great goal for me.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I have that like grit yet or that like self-motivation and dirt and determination.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that'll change as you know we keep paddling.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a raft trip like that is going to like really get me excited.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: What what does the like perfect um advancement of your skill look like?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: What's like the the best kayaker version of Kaylee in the future, do you think?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it really starts with me being able to Where does it end though?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Where does it start?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can't really envision it until I roll consistently, honestly.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you think the best version is just someone that can roll like every time, 80% of the time?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want to roll pretty confidently.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean if I say class four, I don't like truly believe that in my heart.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to roll confidently in class three, but that's because right now, like, I don't even see like the possibility of like the risks and the comfort on class four.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's hard for me to say like that's what I want.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to be able to go to Costa Rica or go to like some other country and get in a boat and experience a river and feel comfortable on it and know that I can like safely eddy out anywhere I want on that river and avoid hazards that would prevent me.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like if there's one class four rapid, I want to be able to get out before it, go around it, and still have a great time.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that I think that my another maybe hot take of kayaking is that I think that pinnacle kayaker is when you're comfortable running, or I say comfortable, you're willing to run like one class four river.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that really opens up the planet of whitewater paddling to you.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think that that's for everybody, but I think that if you're like, I want to get the most bang for my buck with the least amount of skill required, um, I think that if you're willing to run like one class four river or one class four rapid on a river, I think that you'll find that you can paddle amazing whitewater in Washington, in the southeast, in the northeast, you know, even in the in the Midwest.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whereas if you're like, well, I can't run anything that says four, um, I think that I think that you would find still the ability to paddle in those places, but you would be more limited for sure.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, also, like if you're willing to run one class four, that means you can put on a river that maybe has some stuff that you're gonna walk.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're like, well, I can run a class four rapid, you should be like relatively confident in like a role and eddying out and like the concept of portaging and making choices.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um so people would be more willing to take you on stuff that might be over your head, but still um, you know, something that you could get down.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think that there's a lot of runs, like the Brule in up in Minnesota comes to mind where uh like really if you want to run the Brule, you should be like a Burley class five boater to really experience the river.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: But if you just walk everything, um I mean you can run like a couple class four rapids, and then that's your whole day basically.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but if you can't run class four, you could not get down it safely.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of where where my opinion stands on that.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that your goal for me?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like me to feel confident um with some class four?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't really care where you end up.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just think that uh you should be more uh like decisive.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't matter to me that you're running class two, class four, flat water only, don't like kayaking.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: The hard part is when you uh like work yourself into these situations where you're like, I really want to go run a river, and then um you spend an entire day talking yourself out of the river, and it like puts you in this state where it's just like kind of a nightmare.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think this spring we were gonna run something kind of close to our house, and you didn't run it because I didn't have the geolocation.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the thing that set you off.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have like the exact coordinates of the put in.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't, it doesn't matter.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like just type in Pine River and it's that.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, in that circumstance, it's like I would rather you just be like, no, I don't want to run that, and then we don't have to go through that whole process instead of you know, the like back and forth, uh, because that's really like stressful and kind of obnoxious to to manage from the like person who is gonna have to guide down the river.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey now, that was one time.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: All the rest I did just fine on.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the same thing would have happened on the black if your parents didn't or your mom didn't stop by.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because you were kind of spiraling down that same avenue.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but then that's because of how it started.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: You should have seen this burly water that it started.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, but in the drive on the way there, you were starting to do that same thing where you're like asking all these questions, and and it's like at the end of the day, we ran like some class two.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I had and I was like, it just don't worry about it.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point you have to like either read the beta that's what that you can get or just trust the people that are telling you that instead of like um worrying about every little aspect of the whole day.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's definitely gonna be a barrier for me, I think, just in my kayaking you know, journey going forward is if you know me, I like to have a plan, I like to kind of know a lot, and when um I ask Jeremiah specifics, there are no specifics given.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is all blind trust for myself, and that's something that is kind of fun to overcome and sometimes can get in the way.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it'll be fun to see where I go.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: Anything else you want to add?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, awesome.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think that this wraps up our second recording.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um if anybody out there wants to be on the podcast, let me know.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: We'll figure out a way to record it.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think I can put it in the van pretty easy.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our whole setup fits in this little striped duffel bag that we have.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so we can bring that with us.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: So just reach out.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea how to edit or upload these.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna try to figure out that this week.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then hopefully we'll get an Instagram.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can probably get that set up tomorrow.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um so look for some pictures from any of this stuff.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we can look for them there.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we'll probably do posts by episode, I would imagine.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at some point, I'll probably figure out how YouTube and like the podcast apps work.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you guys have any advice or any feedback, feel free to let us know.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we look forward to talking to you again soon.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.