Latest / Authentic Living / Motivating Teams with Authentic Leadership (Part I ) with Dr. David Miles

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Motivating Teams with Authentic Leadership (Part I ) with Dr. David Miles · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:35
  Hi, Ron.
• 0:35
  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:36
  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
• 0:38
  I have a special guest David Miles.
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  David is a PhD in leadership development and he has come today to the podcast to share about
• 0:48
  how do you fit behavior with motivations?
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  He does a lot of fascinating things when he works with organizations to help them adapt to
• 0:57
  meet the needs of what they're seeing organizationally when they wanna make change.
• 1:03
  His interview was so fascinating that we've decided to do part 1 and part 2.
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  This week, you have part 1.
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  So much amazing information.
• 1:11
  And again, next week, we'll share the second part of his interview.
• 1:14
  Hope you enjoy the first and please please please stay tuned for next week when you can
• 1:19
  join me again at authentic living with Roxanne.
• 1:23
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Dohach of authentically famous Roxanne.
• 1:26
  Thanks for tuning in again today.
• 1:28
  Today, I have, David Miles with us he's a PhD in organizational leadership, and he's here to
• 1:35
  talk a little bit about, I would say something that's on a lot of people's minds.
• 1:40
  You know, how are we going to reintegrate back into work?
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  What how how is this all these moving parts gonna come together?
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  You know, am I going to be is it gonna be seamless?
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  Is it gonna be the seamless before I left?
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  What am I gonna do with some of the fears that I'm having not just with as a employee, but
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  also as a leader.
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  So, David, thanks so much for coming on today.
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  Oh, thanks again for having me.
• 2:03
  Most welcome.
• 2:04
  So let's let's talk a little bit about, you know, change because I think I don't even know
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  we can we we, you know, that term, Vuka, which is kind of out there.
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  I I don't even know.
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  I think it's Vuka types 10 that, we've been living in, like, like, a This this concept of
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  whom your static balance is something that I I, you know, I'm not sure that we'll ever get back
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  to in the way we knew it.
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  But that constants, you know, what we've been going through has been like ongoing, change.
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  And now I would say, David's in, in the US, in Virginia that you're a little bit ahead of us
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  in in kind of people going back to work.
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  Here in Canada, we're we're a little bit behind you in in, things going back but let's talk a
• 2:48
  little bit about kind of your background and what kinda got you here to do the kind of work
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  that you do working with leaders and team.
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  Well, I like to tell a story when I'm, doing a keynote or breakout, and I it's hilarious
• 3:06
  because I'm flash up a picture of a chicken sandwich, and I will blame it all on And I do.
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  It's all the fault of a chicken sandwich.
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  Oh, okay.
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  This one Yeah.
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  I'm gonna
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  say people look at me like, you know, you taking some illegal substances or maybe, you
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  know, they look at me like, I'm, you know, a little bit crazy, which, you know, I may not
• 3:27
  deny him on that.
• 3:28
  When you hear me, the screw is here there on occasion.
• 3:31
  I feel like, but, I think sometimes to do the kind of work that you do, you may have to you
• 3:37
  know, have a little bit of leeway here and there.
• 3:39
  But the reason I say at Blakeman on the chicken sandwich is when I first started working, you
• 3:43
  know, as a kid, I'm doing odd jobs and in mowing grass and doing yard work and stuff back
• 3:49
  for money.
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  And then you can get your quote first real job.
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  Right?
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  So 15 a half and go down to the courthouse, and I gotta work from it.
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  And I go to a port for AAA at the mall.
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  Now this is long before the cows and long before the my, you know, my pleasure and all
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  this stuff.
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  They were just in malls.
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  Right?
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  No free standings.
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  Everything was just brown and grab, and they sold a lot of chicken.
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  Now it's fast food.
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  Right?
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  So fast food's fast food.
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  It doesn't matter what country you in.
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  Doesn't matter whatever.
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  It's not known for being the highest paid.
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  It's not known for being the best work.
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  Fairly high, fast paced.
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  But what I liked what got me about it was this, and this is where years later, it really
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  affected me and and got me kind of into doing this is that the gentleman that owned it was
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  very deliberate and very intentional about building a culture in his store that you wanted
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  to come to work.
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  You enjoyed working.
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  It didn't matter that the type of work wasn't necessarily the most glamorous.
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  But he set expectations and he created basically a family environment that you really
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  look forward to going to work.
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  And his managers and supervisors underneath of him echo that same type of sentiment.
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  So, you know, personalities aside, you still enjoy coming to work no matter who is running
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  the show that and what I got with that was that he showed a lot of appreciation.
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  He created this great environment and it really screwed me up.
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  I'm not gonna lie to you because think about it.
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  You're you're at 18.
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  What do you know in 18?
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  Right?
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  You know, and at 18, let's just say you've been three and a half years.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  For 2 3 years, 3 out of 18, that's a pretty high percentage of your days on this earth.
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  When you're only 18.
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  Right?
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  And you put 3 of those 18 years, you know, in a certain type of environment work because that's
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  work.
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  That's your first w two job.
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  That's your first our job that you get the paycheck for.
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  So you go out into the quote, unquote real world, right, after you leave there.
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  And you remember the environment you left And you get in there and you're like, wow.
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  That's a joke.
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  How's the truth?
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  What's going on with it?
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  You start working for a bad series of bad bosses and you're like, It doesn't why is it
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  like this?
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  And people like, well, that's just the way it is.
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  I'm like, no.
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  No.
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  No.
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  It's not the way it is.
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  I just came from an environment.
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  Right.
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  Blah blah blah and you list out the the features and I'm like, no, son.
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  It's not like that.
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  You know, it's kinda like they looked at when you had 18.
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  You're like, look, boy.
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  That ain't the real world.
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  Like, that the world doesn't work like that.
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  And I'm like, you understand, Sparky.
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  I just left that.
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  Right?
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  I I that was my that was my lived experience the last 3 years.
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  Right?
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  You know, big percentage of your life at that point.
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  You're like
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  But you're locked out.
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  You're locked out because most people have really horrific stories as their first, you
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  know, your 1 or 2 jobs.
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  Right?
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  Exactly.
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  But what it did, it created this cognitive dissonance to wear, wait a minute.
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  It doesn't have to be like this.
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  No one perfect.
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  That place wasn't perfect.
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  No no company no organization, no leader, no manager, no person is perfect.
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  But it they did they were intentionally delivered about creating that environment to
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  keep the people there.
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  You know, there's some people that are gonna stay and some people just because of of things
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  that are gonna go.
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  And you have to create the environment because the people that are willing to stay and wanna
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  move up and wanna do you gotta create that environment where they don't wanna go.
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  And that's what reduces their turnover increases your engagement.
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  That's what people want to come work there.
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  And it will get me was always wanted to try to figure out to get back to that environment.
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  How do you make the workplace like that?
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  You know, it can be done.
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  But how?
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  You know, that's one of the reasons I went back to school is to how do I deconstruct the
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  process?
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  How do I, you know, figure out these ways to help, you know, increase engagement and, you
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  know, reduce turnover and and make a workplace use a better place to go ahead and help leaders
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  create amazing teams.
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  I mean, how do you do that?
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  I saw it done before, but I wanted to learn for myself.
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  Okay.
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  Let me peek under the hood.
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  It's kinda like I know how to drive a car.
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  It gets you where I need to go, and I'll enjoy the car, but maybe let me go to the mechanic
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  school and figure out how this whole thing works.
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  Right?
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  So Do you remember the qualities of the of the first leader that you worked for.
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  Do you remember some of the things that he, he or she, I'm assuming it's a man, did that makes
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  you make you realize now?
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  Wow.
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  That these were significant things that companies, like you said, going forward, you
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  needed to to see, but you weren't seeing.
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  Yeah.
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  I think he was well, one is very authentic.
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  What you saw was what you got.
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  It wasn't a lot of fake corporate speak.
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  He was very He showed a lot of gratitude towards the employees.
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  He thanked people for coming in to thank I mean, thank you for doing something you were
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  supposed to do anyway, but still that little bit of gratitude that honest, the reason I said
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  authentic at first is because when he did give you a compliment or I did thank you for coming
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  in or thinking whatever that wasn't genuine heartfelt thing.
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  It wasn't a tip trick or technique.
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  It wasn't a hack.
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  It wasn't a well, I can make people think that I appreciate them, and they're gonna like
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  working for me more.
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  No.
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  He actually appreciated the people that were working for him.
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  They will contribute to the success of the whole organization.
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  And so
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  Which seems really simple.
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  Right, David?
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  But
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  Yes.
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  It is so basic, but it's just about, you know, I often say that, unfortunately, I've had my
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  fascure of not so good, leaders, and I've had, I would say a smaller percentage of really
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  phenomenal leaders, and you know, those ones, the the the ones that are kind and authentic,
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  they stick out.
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  They're like a beaming light, you know,
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  as you
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  can see, Sometimes, and I I can think of myself in my tenure that I actually stayed behind
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  longer potentially because I liked that leader that I was working for.
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  And in retrospect, I was like, oh, you know, I really wanna stay because I like this person,
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  but I know my trajectory in my career needs to go somewhere else.
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  Those two people are credit to the organization that they work for.
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  And because I mean, the the the old adages is true today as it was when they you know, when
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  when it was coined is that, you know, people don't leave organizations for the most part.
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  People leave people.
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  Mhmm.
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  And you could have the best job, the best organization to work for, and your direct
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  manager can make it a great place of work or a horrible place and you just and you gotta get
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  out of there.
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  So I've myself, and I've also seen lots of people that I know leave good jobs, leave good
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  environment, things that, you know, this would be a great place if and then, you know, but the
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  people that they're working for make it a place that they just don't wanna go.
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  So it's funny that you mentioned that is because I look at it as not a a a fad or a tip
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  or a trick or some kind of, like I said, some kind of hack.
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  I look at it as, you know, that's genuine authentic.
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  I really do appreciate the people that are working with me.
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  I really do have a sense of empathy.
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  So there's no doubt in my mind.
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  I didn't know the term before I didn't.
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  That wasn't familiar with it, but I there's no doubt that he had a high very high level of
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  emotional intelligence.
• 10:54
  I know that, like I said, he was just a a a good moral integrity.
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  I guess it's a good way to put it.
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  You know, he was he was gonna do the right thing even if it cost him.
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  Even if it okay.
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  Yes.
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  You're right.
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  Said I was gonna do that.
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  And, okay, that's good.
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  Yep.
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  I'm sorry.
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  I did tell you I was gonna give you the day off and, okay, it's gonna put a short hander, but I
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  told you.
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  And so have it.
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  You're just doing the right thing because it's the right thing, not because it's
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  And with authentic leadership, but you know, with a lot of the research that's done, moral
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  integrity is in line.
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  If even if it like you said, he might he may have said to you, hey.
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  Sure.
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  You'll have Friday off before the July 4th or whatever.
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  And
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  if he didn't think it through, and then all of a sudden, he short staffed, and he said he
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  keeps his word to say because I've said you could.
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  Even though it's gonna put them out.
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  And and I think, you know, that those qualities sometimes, do you think it's qualities that
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  are, you know, easier to teach.
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  Some people seem to have, I would say intuitively a real deep sense of some core
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  fundamental to be authentic.
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  Meaning, I'm not saying, and some people just naturally
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  Yeah.
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  Seem to have it.
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  Do you find that's, that that's something that you see a lot out there, or do you find that
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  sometimes you actually see leadership teams where you have to teach some of the basic
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  fundamentals to what we call in to emotional intelligence.
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  It's a combination of both.
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  You know, the the the best law I'm not a not a lawyer, but, my best lawyer answer would be it
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  depends.
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  I'll take enough law classes to figure out.
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  That's the best.
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  It really does depend.
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  Some people, like you said, they've grown up around the environment and look at it as nature
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  nurture type of thing.
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  If you grow up in an environment or you work in an environment where you see good leadership
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  models, you might not understand the component pieces of it, but you just know that's what a I
• 12:40
  that was great for me.
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  So I'm gonna model what I saw because it was a great place to work, and I would like to
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  produce that same type of result.
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  I'm gonna do the same thing.
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  Consequently, if you've never seen that modeled, you may not and it's not your fault.
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  You may not necessarily know how.
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  You might not know punter pieces of a good leader because you've never worked for 1.
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  Now saying that, I always had this philosophy in my head, about 2 different clipboards.
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  Oh, I when I first started, career after that, I ended up joining the the emergency medical
• 13:15
  services for years and I was in the fire department, municipal fire department doing
• 13:19
  both.
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  And I laughed because in my mind, the way I pictured it with good bosses, bad bosses, is is
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  who's at this old worn down rickety fire station and had all these pieces of apparatus.
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  And and years ago, every single one of them had a little clipboard on it with the little cup
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  hook, and that was the check off sheet.
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  You go down for the day.
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  Well, I'm the 2 clipboards always just kind of stuck in my head on 1, when I become the boss
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  type of thing, what to do, because I've seen good leadership model, what to do, And then on
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  the other clipboard, the what not to do.
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  Now I might only have maybe a quarter page, half page on the what to do.
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  Right.
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  Clipboard.
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  But I felt like depending on a few people that I had worked with and worked for, I felt like
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  that the what not to do was almost like that green striped dot matrix print stuff at tax
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  time.
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  It just kept coming and coming and coming and just went on forever.
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  You know?
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  And I'm like, well, Not the brightest moment of Marquis, but if I can just and I might not have
• 14:17
  a lot of examples of what to do, but if I can actively avoid the what not to do, just by
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  default, I'm gonna stumble on.
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  You're gonna you're gonna shot.
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  You're gonna shine.
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  You're gonna stumble on the good stuff.
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  So, I mean, I would take people that, you know, if you work for bad leaders, What are some of
• 14:32
  the things you hated about it?
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  I mean, and then just this guy was a jerk.
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  He was a bully.
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  He was what?
• 14:37
  Well, then don't be a jerk.
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  Don't be a bully.
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  You know, don't just he was mean to me.
• 14:41
  Well, then they'll be mean to people.
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  Be nice.
• 14:43
  Okay.
• 14:43
  Oh my god.
• 14:44
  What a concept.
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  You know, it's just do me.
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  But, you know, I I gotta play devil's advocate with because I've been in corp I've been in
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  corporate environments, and I've been an executive in environments.
• 14:53
  And I remember I always joke around and say it's it's because of my Caribbean heritage.
• 14:57
  Right?
• 14:57
  Small, connected, and I would like to be open and, you know, and I remember, you know, being,
• 15:03
  you know, knocked back because I was so connected because I was looking for
• 15:07
  connections.
• 15:08
  So with the other executives on the team, or I'd be, you know, sharing things about my
• 15:12
  portfolio, and I'd be told why you need to open the that shouldn't you shouldn't be at that
• 15:18
  room.
• 15:19
  And I'm like, I'm working as an executive in health and wellness, And, you know, but but
• 15:24
  you're asking me to be in congruent with what I am supposed to be supporting.
• 15:29
  And it was a given, and there were so many examples that I saw over my years over and over
• 15:35
  again that, you know, every level you went up, like, so the level above me was even that much
• 15:40
  more disconnected than my level.
• 15:43
  And, like you said, about that implicit normative behavior, you know, you got told one
• 15:50
  thing and, you know, the vision mission, you know, you know, all those things.
• 15:55
  And then the reality is behind the house.
• 15:59
  Yes.
• 15:59
  It's been.
• 16:00
  Good point on that because there is a lot of That that's why I just really banned the Gong
• 16:06
  on the authenticity end of it because a lot of it is incongruent.
• 16:09
  It just to really build an amazing workplace culture, you have to be selling the vision
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  mission values all the time.
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  You cannot just come together once every 3 to 5 years in the executive boardroom and it's only
• 16:24
  the folks, you know, at the 15th floor and above that come together in this boardroom,
• 16:30
  create this strategic plan, vision, mission values, high fiber, everybody, you know, hey,
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  we've, you know, got another 5 year plan going.
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  Stick that stuff on the wall.
• 16:39
  Yeah.
• 16:40
  Yeah.
• 16:40
  And then that's all it is.
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  There's something on the wall because if you're not constantly out there selling it and it
• 16:47
  people have different contexts and definitions of what I mean, you know, what they think I
• 16:50
  wanna hear is selling it, but you gotta constantly be casting that vision.
• 16:54
  You gotta constantly be this is where we're going and this is how we're gonna get there to
• 16:58
  everybody.
• 16:59
  You know, the leadership, the staff, and everybody has to be on the same page as they
• 17:02
  are as the senior leader you that's the way you can just kinda shape that culture is because
• 17:08
  you're constantly selling it.
• 17:10
  Look at some of the best performing organizations in the world, you know, I don't
• 17:14
  think that, I don't think that somebody ever goes to work at Apple thinking to themselves,
• 17:20
  you know, especially when Steve Jobs was there, He talks a good game on stage about having nice
• 17:25
  design and products at work, but, you know, That's not what I'm seeing.
• 17:30
  Well, we're here trying to build the p you know, that just simplistic, easy to use design,
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  the philosophy that you know, they they had behind their products.
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  I think that just resonated throughout, and it would just ended up being something unconscious
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  at some point, which when cultures really work because now all of a sudden, it just seems to
• 17:47
  be an unconscious part of the organization.
• 17:49
  That's just the way we do it.
• 17:51
  It's excellent.
• 17:52
  It's you know, it's simple.
• 17:53
  Yeah.
• 17:53
  Because, like, the thing is, and I I I think of, like, us in the last 18 months or so,
• 17:59
  really, any mission vision and value had to be, you know, you you have your finger had to be on
• 18:05
  the pulse day by day week by week about what was happening, you know, like, you know, for
• 18:11
  instance, I was talking to a lot of CEOs in IT and when the pandemic, you know, was like, you
• 18:18
  know, and was heightened there, they had people, you know, continuing to work at the
• 18:25
  level they did because of their culture, Mhmm.
• 18:28
  Not saying.
• 18:29
  I got my mother and father that are both have COVID and I have the word to go.
• 18:34
  So they keep, you know, kind of working, and then in turn they're burning out or people are
• 18:38
  dying around them, but culturally, they always follow through with expectations.
• 18:42
  So, you know, the CEO on that on that level, how to know, you know, what every line and
• 18:50
  every multinational location or international location is happening because it's not on a
• 18:57
  static kind of vision or mission anymore.
• 19:00
  Really difficult.
• 19:01
  And I think at those upper levels, especially the bigger the organization gets, the more you
• 19:07
  have to be very, very deliberate about being able to have channels of communication that
• 19:14
  kind of go around the traditional or chart because I think if you're not getting what the
• 19:22
  real story is from the mid level and from the ground and you're just getting what's filtered
• 19:26
  up, I mean, middle management's a hard place to be.
• 19:29
  I mean, you're catching up on both ends.
• 19:31
  So I am not trying to don't get me wrong with what I'm gonna say, but I do have a joke about
• 19:36
  middle management being as the most efficient filtration system in the world.
• 19:40
  Like, reverse osmosis and desalination has nothing on middle management.
• 19:43
  Right?
• 19:44
  I mean, what are you gonna do if the people underneath you and not be?
• 19:48
  You're gonna, hey, boss.
• 19:49
  All my people, like, hate this place and aren't happy.
• 19:51
  They're gonna leave.
• 19:52
  You're gonna go really gonna go tell him unless you've really truly built that relationship.
• 19:56
  Of course.
• 19:57
  And it's a safe psychological space and they're like, no.
• 19:59
  I I want the truth because a lot of times just shoot the messenger.
• 20:03
  And of course, you're gonna, you know, it's just gonna get happier and happier as it goes
• 20:07
  on.
• 20:07
  And if you're CEO or you're one of the VPs and by the time it gets to you, it's really good.
• 20:13
  It's the news is
• 20:14
  fine.
• 20:15
  They're so thin up there.
• 20:16
  They're nothing everything.
• 20:17
  They're they're like, everything's good because everybody's generally afraid organization when
• 20:22
  you talk about psychological safety that they're afraid to go up to, you know, the ones
• 20:26
  that are CEO a lot of times, they're telling him or her if they're not feeling
• 20:31
  psychologically safe, what they wanna hear, which is oftentimes a disconnect from like you
• 20:37
  said, the frontline and the middle managers.
• 20:39
  Right?
• 20:39
  And then people wonder, why are we why is my short term going through the roof?
• 20:42
  Why is my long term going through the roof?
• 20:44
  My incidental absences our arbitrations, but everybody's happy happy happy.
• 20:48
  If my employee engagement is is in the toilet and while my employee engagement is down, Well,
• 20:54
  maybe I need to get a new consultant.
• 20:56
  I don't like the questions they're asking.
• 20:58
  I'll get a new consultant in to ask different questions on the employee engagement survey,
• 21:01
  and that'll help.
• 21:03
  And if they if they still come back bad, then we'll fire him and we'll or her will get
• 21:06
  another assessment company, and it will do another set of organizational assessments
• 21:11
  Sure to tune in next week for the 2nd part of Doctor.
• 21:14
  David Smiles interview.
• 21:17
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne.
• 21:20
  Create the space for positive, healthy change.
• 21:23
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 21:30
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 21:34
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.