Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / Let's Talk with Carl Lee - The Caitlin Clark Experience and the Gambling Sponsorship Debate

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Let's Talk with Carl Lee - The Caitlin Clark Experience and the Gambling Sponsorship Debate · WCHS Network Podcasts

0:01
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Cry sign. It's mine
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gotta show. Everybody is my sign. You gotta work. Cry Sin Another
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mind from Saga Dog to day Line, Don't Talk, You Gotta Burt.
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Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee, where sports, culture and community intersect.
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Joined Carl and frequent co host Hollis Lewis as they dive into engaging conversations
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with guests from all walks of life. Let's Talk is probably presented by Attorney
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Frank Walker, Real Talk, Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker Law
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dot com. Let the conversation begin on Let's Talk. Hello, ladies and
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gentlemen. This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk with Carl Lee, where we
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dive into engaging conversations sports, culture and community. We are proudly sponsored by
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Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk, Real Experience, Real Results. Visit Frank
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Walker Law dot com for more informations. So today, ladies and gentlemen,
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I think the interesting conversation that we want to jump into is the is the
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divide. I'm going to call it the divide in the w n B A
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the It's it's growing success, but it's division that I think is starting to
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grow, or is the growing success creating haters within its organization. I'm going
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to say, to me, some of the things that I have seen looks
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like hating. It looks like some hating. Okay, now, and again,
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I'll be outright and just say I'm a Caitlin fan, Okay, now,
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for no reason other than she was the first person to kind of catch
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my eye. Okay, Okay, But I think part of part of the
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interesting conversation, I think, and I think some of the frustration for players
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who have been there and have been putting in the years, not making money
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and doing those kinds of things and playing exceptional ball, they had not gotten
2:25
much attention. And what we're specifically talking about is kind of the bumps and
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bruises that Kaitlyn Jenner is Kayln Jenner, Clayland Cark is taking right. And
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I think the fact that I mean, if you just saw the last one,
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the most recent one, where she's not even really looking and she gets
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an elbow to the chest and literally is knocked down, and there's no there's
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no technical files, there's nothing that goes with that, Okay. So to
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me, that that's hating. Okay, Now, that's just not a good
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hardball. So that's that's that's not that's not old school hardball. That's that's
3:04
dirty anywhere you go. Okay, so, but I want you to elaborate
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on what we were talking about prior to the show about the comparison between other
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superstar athletes when they were beginning their career. Okay, so, to me,
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this is an exact example of Tiger Woods throwing into golf. For those
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they don't know what happened when okay, so, so Tiger Tiger Woods goes
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into golf where golf is a majority, if not completely, white, white
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white golfers. Right, and who is this young kid? Who is great
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phenom? Who and how and why is he going to be? Why is
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he in this game? And I watched Serena Williams The Williams Sisters show on
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Netflix. It's like same story. Yeah, And for those who don't know
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the Tiger Wood incident, it wasn't a physical one, but he was getting
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called names, racial epithets, different things of that nature. And nobody expected
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they didn't expect him to be that good. They didn't in the show,
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in the movie about the Williams Sisters, nobody really wanted to could even think
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that they could be able to play, And particularly the Williams sisters, they
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came out of nowhere because they didn't go through the traditional routes that exact today.
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They didn't. They went straight pro. They went straight pro kind of
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from like little kids. It worked out for years upon years and then went
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pro and totally dominant, and and the people who wanted to be their agent
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was like, no, you can't do that. Nobody's done that. You're
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gonna get eaten up there. There's just no way you can do that.
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Sometimes the system has to change, and sometimes somebody has to be the person
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to change it. So how do you think Kaylyn Clark compares to those the
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Williams sisters in Tiger Wood? What would be the the one to one in
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your mind? Were close to? I think that the only thing that is
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different, and this is also because it's team ball. Okay, that makes
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sense, you know, is that her individual success has not been equal to
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their equal success, coming coming, coming coming right from college right into the
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professional ranks. She she's not She's still the same talent, but they're but
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the the unlike well, I shouldn't say unlike, maybe even worse than some
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of the other people that we've talked about, she's actually getting the physicality.
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The physicality is being taken out on her. You know what I'm saying,
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Like, it's no way like you don't you don't hit anybody in golf,
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you don't hit anybody in tennis, basketball. You got a chance to take
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to take her out, and when she's up in the air, I guess
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I would argue kind of two points. So if you look at her stats,
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she's she's leading her team in scoring, averaging fifteen points a game.
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She's leading her team and assists, averaging six point four assists per game.
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So I would argue, although she has five turnovers a game as well,
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I would argue that she is, in some iteration, having that success.
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She's having Rookie of the year's success. And I would also argue that again,
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maybe outside of the incident that happened this past weekend, I say,
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man, she just faces good hard ball and she's going through a rookie hazing
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period that even Auries herself has to go through. All the anguries may have
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the physicality to take that beating. I don't know if anybody's gonna dare attack
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Reace that way. Okay, Okay, I can buy that. I can
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buy that and one of the things. But but also what we're talking about
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is not simply the attack and the physicality, but we're talking about maybe the
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malice intent behind you're speaking to Yes, yeah, okay, if you if
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you hit Caitlyn, you're hitting her for a reason, Like you're not just
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hitting her as a rough foul. You're hitting it because you really don't really
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even care for her. You Like, it's got similar to the incident that
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you've seen this weekend where it wasn't really like a basketball play, right,
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it was nowhere in a basketball play. It wasn't a pig, it wasn't
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boxing out for it, it wasn't anything just and Clark wasn't doing anything.
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She was just kind of looking. But she did. She did jar she
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did. The young lady she was got into it with They was jawing.
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But you but you can't But does that does that? Does that is the
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recourse physical? Or is it? Or is it just more or more joeing
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and or more Take it to the whole, Look, take it to the
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hole. It's hard for me to argue that point. I'm not gonna lie
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to It's hard for me to argue that. But what I will say is
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that this is what I like about the w NBA, and this is how
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I think they could win being a different product than other basketball products out there,
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is that you have that physicality, you have that old school, you
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have that like and from what I understand, and again I'm gonna put on
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record, I've never really watched them NBA outside of the season other than when
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it's first and most generations can say that, other than like Lisa Leslie and
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then when they first started. I watched then and I haven't watched since.
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But what I'm seeing the play is tough, it's rugged, it's gritty,
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and it's just such a diverse game then the funess game that the NBA has
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turned into. So I like it personally, I like it. I enjoyed
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it myself, Okay, but what what I think like at what costs?
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Right? Yeah? At what cost? You know? And when we were
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talking about the show prior to getting on, one of the things that I
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said was, you know, you look at Caitlyn. She's but she buck
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ten. Yeah, yeah, she's light. She's gonna have to she's gonna
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have to get in the weight room, and that's what I'm talking. Yeah,
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to me, this can be her Michael Jordan versus Pistons moment. Yeah
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yeah, Michael Jordan he had getting that way and he and he went through
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it as well, and he went That's what I'm saying. And to me,
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this is what made this is what can make her so great going through
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all this hate because Michael Jordan, all them guys went through Kobe. They
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went through it, and then they had to go be about to wait the
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game. They had to go get strong, had to go get physical.
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Do you think anybody went anybody in the NBA went an had it any more
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difficult than Michael Jordan. I don't. I don't think Kobe. I don't
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think Kobe. I don't think Magic, I don't think you know, Bird.
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I don't think none of those kinds of guys ever got put into that.
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And maybe because they were bigger, you know. But I just think
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that this is a this this is a unique kind of a situation. Bruh.
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If you watch some of those old Michael Jordan clips when he was playing
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against and we're talking about the mid eighties, his rookie magazine Triptsphify six years
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Detroit, Boston, Atlanta. I mean brouh, he was. I mean
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they was playing football out there, brou Like. It wasn't no joke.
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Like if you go back and watch them clips, I can understand why the
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NBA had to make that adjustment because I mean, they were just it was
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boxing football in basketball out at that time, you know, And it was
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just a matter of for the who's the best or And if you think you're
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good because you're coming out of high school, you're coming around early from college,
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We're gonna show you this is the man's This is a man's game.
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And I think that's what the WNBA they showing, like this is a grown
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woman game and you got to come through this. Although and again if you
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read, if you read the stats, fifteen points six six since the game,
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she's bawling, right, But and I think this can be the opportunity
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to But I think the problem, I think the problem with with the numbers
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is they're not like the colleague numbers, which is what they should say.
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People. People did I think that they thought it was gonna be she was
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gonna have freelance. She was gonna have freelance to the n w C A
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and the women that were out there playing. And that's why do anything.
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That's why I thought the media played this all wrong because it should have never
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just been about her. It should have been by her angelies. This is
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really I'm telling you, this was the WNB. And I've made this point.
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I won't go over it again, but this is was their magic bird
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moment, and they and they kind of and they I think they're starting to
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get that back and get back on course with that because this was about two
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super ascending superstars that were gonna put this league back where it should be or
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up to where it never been. I should say that I I one hundred
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percent agree with you the own but and and and let me let me preface
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this before I even say, Okay, we don't neither one of us.
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We've talked about this before I say it. We've talked about it off air
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prior to coming on the show. As much as this could have some race
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part of it, you know, because you know, everybody knows that the
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majority in sports typically is seventy to eighty percent on black basketball. Football.
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Yeah, but for for sure in football, but in and around seventy sixty
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seventy in basketball. But I think this is more. This is more even
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this is more about who's gonna be the who's going to be the king,
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Who's going to be the king of the in the WNBA or the queen or
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the queen? Yeah, who's gonna be the queen of the WNBA? And
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for anybody who was already there, how dare you think you're gonna come in
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and see? That's what adds that you're not gonna be that? To me,
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I understand again, and I'm gonna there could be some racial implications that
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it's the jealousy could be and it might be there, but I think it's
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more of a matter of saying to the media like, you're not just and
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I'm saying speaking on behalf of the players in that league, you're not.
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You don't get the luxury of ignoring us for twenty five plus years, and
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all of a sudden you have this college phenom, which there's been a lot
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of college phenom who didn't even win the n C Double A Championship, and
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now she's assaulted to the queen position. No, we that or you know
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whatever, individual players Asian Wilson, we're that, not her, And I
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think that's the argument I think it's not so much hate, but I think
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it's a matter of saying, hey, we're in that position and she don't
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get to skip line, okay, and I and I get that, Okay,
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I get that, But I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge you with with this.
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When when a player comes into the NFL, player comes into the n
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B a attract star, tennis player, whatever the sport is, whoever comes
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into that sport, the coverage is gonna be with them, good bad,
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are indifferent? Okay, Right, Tiger, when Tiger jumps into the golf,
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it was all about that. It was all about that. It was
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we didn't know no other golf, good n So you forgot all about it,
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all about it. That's true. That's true. And so when you
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when you start thinking about the media, see the media, they their focus
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is gonna be on the the lady, the dude, the star is gonna
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be there and they want that story of she only scored four points to rebounds
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or she scored thirty. Either. They gonna give you the upside to promote
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her, and they're gonna and they're gonna give you the down side to say,
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see, I told you she ain't that you know, so they're gonna
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have us on both sides all the time. That ain't her fault. Okay,
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it ain't her fault, but I'm saying, so you can't. But
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but I think folks are taking it out on her. You're right, they
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all taking that on her. And I'm saying, if I'm Asia Wilson,
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I'm the number one player in the league, i don't want championships. I'm
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averaging twenty six points a game. I'm averaging twelve boards a game, and
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I'm it. I'm the MVP Olympics. All that, I'm it, And
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all you do want is talking about her and she ain't done nothing at this
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level. I get it. So it's I think it's gonna be. I
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wouldn't even say, like I said, I won't even so much as call
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it jealousy or hating, But I think it's saying, hey, why y'all,
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why y'all looking over there? Why she making all this money? Angel
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Wilson didn't even have a shoe deal until this year. They almost had the
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shame Nike into giving her a shoe deal. So I'm saying, you didn't
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ignore us now down that she coming, and again she did great things in
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college. But she's not. Well, I can't say that she is a
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one on one but what I am saying is that she did. She's not
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the only one that had that sort of success in college. I'll say that,
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right, right, you know what I mean. But she's the latest.
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But she's the latest, and she's the most coverage, and some people
16:25
are saying she's the greatest. But but year after year, media coverage gets
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bigger. Okay, I give you that. Every year it gets it gets
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bigger. I was I was a I was a decent corner. Right,
16:41
I'm a decent corner. But there's there's some guys. There's a Darryl Green
16:45
out there, right, and I want to you know, I know he.
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I know he's gonna get some attention. I know he's gonna get the
16:53
bulk of the attention when it comes to start talking Pro Bowls and all that
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kind of stuff. That reality is, that's something you gotta know. You
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gotta know that, Like, Okay, who is the star? If you
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were the star and somebody comes in, yeah, but when when Mahomes came
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in, a whole lot of quarterbacks who were the man had to give it
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up. But Okay, and I understand that point, but I still I
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think, what's happened with this In this situation where you're talking about Mahome Del
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Green or whatever, whatever, y'all still making maybe not same money, but
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y'all making similar memory money in this case. I mean, Kayln Clark is
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just she's lapped everybody as far as resource finances and but that for the games
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played. And I think it's and I think there's a level of just saying,
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hold up, we're here. I think even because we mentioned Tiger Witch,
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the Williams sisters, I think Lebron went through it right. It was
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a lot of hate, a lot of animosity coming towards him. He's a
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kid who ain't gona play the NBA beside this ninety million dollar Nike contract and
18:02
we still struggling to get shoes. But that but see, to me,
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that ain't a basketball issue. I mean, I get that that's not a
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basketball but still that's like Nike wants when it comes to those kinds of deals.
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They want they want that person and and and that person is black,
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white, green, yellow, orange. They want who who? Because everybody
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was focused on on on Caitlan. Yeah, and I think somebody like Asia
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Willison and saying Asia Wilson is saying I am that person, but the camera
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just ain't been pointed on me. I think she's saying that like, look,
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you know, I'm I'm beautiful, I'm a great basketball player, and
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I gotta go over the overseas to make a living, like you know what
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I'm saying. I think that's just a little bit of that. Not so
18:52
much hate directed directly towards Kaitlan Clark, but just the process and and even
18:59
the covering of it has not been But I think I think sometimes you you
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know, sometimes there's a place and I'm defending on just the reality of how
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I see it. Okay, at some somebody changes the dynamics. You know.
19:17
Patrick Mahomes changed the quarterback. He changed the quarter changed the way we
19:22
throw the football. Yes, it's all you can make the case. He
19:26
doesn't necessarily have to be the best quarterback, but he changed the way he
19:30
played the game. The way he is totally different. It's different angles you're
19:34
throwing at. Angles is a and I'm talking about is a quarterback right playing
19:37
my whole quarterback, my whole life. He is literally revolutionized the way you
19:41
play that position because you're never supposed to throw. You never throw, You're
19:45
never supposed to side against your body. I mean, like I told you,
19:49
he throws from twelve o'clock till about four. He darning thought underhanded.
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Yes, he does everything that you're not supposed to do. He ain't settled
19:57
all that. So yeah, and so had to say so so but but
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but but see, you have those particular guys and or lady who changes the
20:07
dynamic. You can be great, you could be the best player. But
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but but you're just the best player. You don't do anything necessarily to to
20:15
to brand yourself. Let me ask you this, though, do you think
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Kaylen Clark is in the same vein as Patrick Mahomes changed the game or is
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she just a part of the process and the timing of expanding the coverage of
20:30
that? Yes, yes, I think she. I think she. I
20:33
think she has changed the coverage. She is not necessarily changing like the game
20:37
or way the way people think. I think what she's done and how in
20:42
the game process is where can you shoot that three from? Most people were
20:48
shooting it at the three point line. Now there are people even stand in
20:52
ten year olds, say Exeth Curry, that was him who did that.
20:56
You gotta get tribute to him. Were talking w NBA, okay, talking
21:00
about getting the confoundes of them. Yes, I'm saying, in that league,
21:03
what coach would be okay with a player taking four or five steps across
21:08
from chef. I mean, I guess I could see that, But I
21:14
don't know if that's super revolutionary. It's different. It's different, it's different.
21:18
She was the first, and I for me, no one had ever
21:23
said anything about this girl, a girl, a woman shooting three point shots.
21:29
Okay, nobody had said that. Not yeah, not from that range.
21:33
But when they started talking about it and showing videos on ESPN and I'm
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I'm watching it and I'm looking at it, I'm like thinking, oh,
21:40
well, wait a minute, I gotta I gotta watch I gotta watched it.
21:41
I gotta check that out. Once I checked it out, it wasn't
21:45
like one time she tried it. It wasn't like two times. I mean,
21:48
it was like a nor it's her range, and all of a sudden,
21:52
now I'm like, I'm hooked. I could buy that. I mean,
21:56
it's the same hook. It's the same hook that that that that tiger
22:00
had. What is driver. Okay, I could buy that. I could
22:03
buy that. I could buy that, I could buy that. I still
22:07
think there's some other I don't know, just the way we maybe covered this.
22:10
And like I said, I just don't think that I'm saying and I'm
22:15
blaming the media. I just don't think they've had equitable coverage of all these
22:19
labers. I don't think is there ever okay, has there ever been equitable
22:25
coverage across the NFL. But I think if you have great quarterbacks, if
22:30
you have good too great quarterbacks, you're gonna get the coverage. I think
22:34
like when we look at those last years of Tom Brady, Mahome, Aaron
22:37
Rodgers, Burrow, the kid out out in San Diego, they're all even
22:44
like Tua, They're gonna get the coverage. Again, We're gonna maybe cover
22:49
them for different aspects of their games. Some criticize, some are gonna be
22:53
praised. But I don't think in this instance, again, all the coverages
22:59
going to Kaitlin Clark and none. It's very sparingly to the other place until
23:03
maybe these last couple of weeks. If you so, let's say you know
23:06
there's another star in w n b A and they are and they play Let's
23:11
say they play tonight, Right, they're gonna have their coverage. Now if
23:17
they scored thirty twelve assists, you know, ten rebounds, just a couple
23:26
of turnovers, They're they're gonna, they're gonna get there. They're gonna get
23:29
their hype, right, They're gonna I think I think they're gonna get it.
23:33
But unfortunately, so I think it's it's it's Michael Jordan's and everybody else.
23:41
Okay, but everybody in a car accident accident show happens when it happens
23:52
to you. Champions dominated. I don't know one zero one dominated for what
24:07
I guess I'm trying to zero one. She's just that great a player,
24:15
or she's just the most marketable player. I'm gonna say she's she's the most
24:19
marketable player because she is the most notable player because of the Iowa games that
24:26
were on TV. Okay, so you're saying the marketability is based off that
24:32
prior work that she had absolutely absolutely every camera, every camera that was on
24:37
her in college. They transition to her in at the professional let me and
24:47
so they're not they're not coming in necessarily looking for somebody else there may be
24:52
somebody already there, but if you're not standing out whether or if they're not
24:56
covering you prior to me getting why they gonna cover you. Once I'm in
25:03
Okay, and I again I could, I could buy that, but I
25:06
just still I would still go back to the point that I don't know if
25:10
she's gonna be able to mimic that same success she had in college in the
25:14
w NBA. And I'm saying for the media, for the w NBA to
25:18
put all the eggs in that basket maybe a strategic mistake when you have other
25:25
superstars who may be just as marketable but just having had the camera turned on
25:29
them. So I'm saying that in a time where the because what we got
25:33
to look at is this and you live through this, the wa excuse me.
25:37
The NBA wasn't always the NBA in the seventies and eighties, right,
25:41
so when it got their opportunity, they shine Larry Bird, they shine cream,
25:47
they shine of magic, they shine guys like Dominique Wilkins's spud Web.
25:52
So I'm saying, at this time, right now, the WNBA should be
25:56
highlighting all their great players because Kate part may just be fifteen and six,
26:02
and that's just maybe what it is for the rest of her career, which
26:03
is a great career. And in part and in part and again I got
26:07
no I got no fight with that, because there's there's some straight up reality
26:11
to that. But for every player on every team, you have to be
26:21
that person on that team facts, because if you're sharing it with somebody,
26:29
if you're sharing it with somebody, then they get the one game, they
26:33
get it. You know. It's like a receiver and running back. You
26:37
run the ball, the game plans to run the ball. He runs for
26:41
one hundred and fifty. He gonna get the day, right, that's the
26:42
fact. And if all of a sudden we can't We're going against the Bears,
26:47
you know, forty six defense. We know we can't run. What
26:49
are we gonna do? We're gonna throw all of a sudden. Now,
26:52
the receiver and quarterback is more likely to get the attention. Yeah, so
26:56
I think, and I say that to say, if you're on a team
27:03
and you're your game, you're on a Monday night game, Tuesday night game,
27:07
this weekend game, you better ball, you better get you, you
27:12
better get you. With that, I mean, that's just the reality of
27:18
it and that I can't agree with you all. And like I said,
27:22
not only should you get yours, but you better have the outfit coming onto
27:26
the game. Yes, you better. You better have your social media popping
27:30
every You better do everything you can to show you a superstar. And trust
27:33
me, trust me, we're gonna take a break here. But talking smack
27:38
to the player that you think is getting it, that ain't gonna get you.
27:42
That ain't gonna get your time. That ain't gonna get you. No,
27:45
that ain't gonna get you no more attention other than the fact you in
27:48
the picture with Caitlyn because you're talking to her. So you need to do
27:52
you need to do something with the ball and leave her alone. Okay,
27:57
hey you could have button on that. So ladies, just let me just
28:03
give you a quick before we get out of here. For a quick break.
28:06
You can catch Let's Talk with Carl Lee every Sunday at one pm and
28:10
Thursday at seven pm on five eighty WCHS. If you've missed any episodes,
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29:21
Find previous episodes of Let's Talk at wchsnetwork dot com slash Let's Talk. This
29:26
is Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Now back through the conversation. Ladies and
29:30
gentlemen, welcome back to let's talk with carl Lee. And if you missed
29:37
any of the beginning of that, we spend a little time when talking about
29:45
Caitlin Clark and her and the reality of her success and or other folks's lack
29:52
of attention, lack of attention, a lack of attention that that's probably for
29:56
their own for their own. Yes, so we're gonna, we're gonna,
30:00
we're gonna switch into into something that I I personally, one, I don't
30:07
do. And second, never never ever really kind of figured out why was
30:18
why it's legal? Why is it legal in one place illegal for others?
30:23
And and it'll make more sense when I actually explained it because and this comes
30:29
off the heels of of several I mean, we can go back a couple
30:33
of years, but in recently you have several NFL guys, Uh you have
30:37
guys from the Detroit Lions, you know, uh C J. Moore,
30:41
guys from the Commanders, Tony, you have a various NFL and other sports
30:48
league getting suspended for alleged gambling. And let me and and and and let
30:53
me why I disliked this so much? Why I like dislike this so much?
30:59
Is this because at one point gambling was off the chart, like like
31:03
you couldn't like you couldn't. You couldn't even you don't even go to Vegas.
31:07
You go to Vegas, you can't go in nowhere, right because it
31:11
was against it was against the rules. Yeah, now you have all these
31:17
gambling places in sights and sights that people can gamble with. And what I
31:29
get, I promise you I get, because this is gonna sound crazy,
31:32
I get me not gambling on my team or me betting on myself or something
31:37
some some something like that. But if you're gonna tell me I can't gamble
31:44
and and and you're making money on gambling, yeah I got a problem with
31:48
that. Yeah, I mean, I mean the league is making money on
31:52
gambling with all these associations with these different organizations, and for me it just
31:57
becomes us slip. So one of the I guess the biggest one I forgot
32:01
to mention is show hey An Tani the picture for the Dodger where he was
32:06
involved in an alleged gambling scandal where his alleged translator, oh the bookie millions
32:12
on top of the men trying to recent Yeah, that's recent, and they're
32:15
trying to figure out whether he knew about it or not. I guess the
32:17
problem that I have when you look at I guess it's two folds when you
32:22
look at gambling, when you look at things of fantasy sports, it's kind
32:25
of ruin and again, I hate to go back to this, but it's
32:29
ruined the the the innocence of a game we grew up loving. Right,
32:34
You didn't necessarily weren't rooting for individual players. You're rooting for your team,
32:37
but it kind of transformed where you're rooting for not only maybe your team,
32:43
but you're rooting for a particular players for your fantasy league, and you're rooting
32:46
for the interests of a bunch of other teams for your gambling interests. In
32:51
addition to that, where is the line for players, Because what you're not
32:55
going to tell me players are gambling, They're gambling on their contemporary game,
33:01
and they're probably gambling on themselves in some capacity. So it becomes just this
33:06
slippery slope. And we didn't even mention the in the NBA ref who got
33:09
caught in that big gambling scandal, So it just becomes a slippery soap to
33:15
where where where does it end? Because like even institutions like ESPN, they
33:20
have ESPN Bet, you can bet with ESPN, you can bet with these,
33:24
you know, different organizations that are closely tied to college teams in NFL,
33:30
NBA, and NHL team. So I just don't know if it's a
33:32
good thing for sports in general. I think that if you're gonna if you're
33:39
gonna be able, and I know that you can't you can't stop gambling,
33:44
but if you if you're utilize if the NFL is going to be part of
33:52
the gambling structure, if the if a league itself, whether the NBA,
33:57
NFL, nhi L, whatever, if you're gonna be part of it and
34:05
you're making money from it, how are you gonna tell me, as a
34:10
member of that organization that I can't do it well? And that's the thing
34:15
I think they're They're not necessarily saying, I think the rules depending on the
34:20
league that you're involved in. They're just saying, I think you can bet
34:23
on some things, but some things are off limit, And that's what I'm
34:25
saying, Okay, And so how do I know, you know what the
34:30
best bet for me would be would be betting on me, betting on me,
34:35
or you have a situation like where you have John tay Porter. He
34:38
gets banned from the NBA for life because he bet on himself allegedly, and
34:44
he limited his own participation in the games in which he was betting on himself.
34:50
So and I'm saying, number one, how do you stop that?
34:54
I think it's difficult to stop it. And then those guys, they these
34:59
are old, too many competitors, These are a type personalities. These guys.
35:04
Maybe if they don't if they can't bet legally in Vegas or woman of
35:07
these fandual institutions, then they're gonna bet illegally. So I'm just saying,
35:12
like, I don't know. Again, it's here, but I don't know
35:15
kind of what's an adequate limit or how far do we go with this?
35:22
Imagine having endless money? That part, yeah, because for what I might
35:29
call ten dollars, you know, I think ten dollars is a high bet.
35:31
You may think twenty. Somebody might be thinking a thousand, somebody might
35:37
be thinking ten thousand, somebody's thinking one hundred thousand. And if you're in
35:43
that hundred thousand range, bright you and you lose are you likely gonna do
35:50
what You're gonna go back in and tryna get your money back. Yes,
35:52
you gotta. Charles Barkley, he was talking to Shannon Sharp, I believe,
35:54
and he said, he go to Vegas. Hey, that's just a
35:58
light, a light weekend of gambling. It's three hundred thousand dollars. I'm
36:01
willing to lose three hundred hundred thous somebody make that in ten years, and
36:06
you just I could throw that away in the weekend, even to say that
36:09
out loud, Yeah, and it shouldn't even. I would never I would
36:15
never make a comment like that, like I could give up that kind of
36:17
money because you because it makes people look at you a certain kind of way.
36:22
So I guess, like I said, we I think we know it's
36:27
here and it's probably gonna be here to stay. What is the proper if
36:31
you were running the NFL, what would be the boundaries for your players?
36:37
I would I would just make it very clear like it used to be,
36:40
so you you cannot gamble. But it's that reality though They're gonna gamble,
36:45
and if you do you and get caught, the consequences are what you likely
36:52
get thrown out of them. So So are you saying, like, are
36:53
you willing to risk for doubling your money of one hundred thousand to two hundred
36:59
thousand, okay, and get caught and now be out of the league.
37:04
Okay, So let me let's clarify though. Are you saying like you can't
37:07
go to Vegas Ortlanta City play blackjack? Are you saying you can't do sports?
37:13
I don't. Here's betting, Yeah, you can't. Yeah, sports
37:15
betting, I think gambling. I think you cannot gamble on any sport.
37:21
You say, no sport, No, if you're an athlete, you shouldn't
37:23
get because, Bro, how many friends do I have to play basketball?
37:28
How many friends do I have that might play soccer, hockey? Whatever?
37:31
Right? We could be buddy, buddy, and bro, I'm betting on
37:35
you. Yeah, but I think I think we have to ignore. But
37:37
I think you get into some trouble with that hard line because I think we've
37:42
acknowledged that, you know, gambling is a disease. You yeah, you're
37:45
sex, you're right, you're right. But but the problem is is because
37:50
you let it happen. See but but but you can't say that because an
37:53
alcoholic or somebody who's abusing drugs. They didn't necessarily let that happen. It
37:58
was some incident that led to that. Usually, usually when when when a
38:02
player gets into gets into into the league and he has some form of a
38:08
habit that's a bad habit, it it comes to light. Very few players
38:15
go all the way through the through the league with an issue. Okay,
38:22
they may get five years right and and all of a sudden, because everybody
38:28
knows. Everybody in the locker room knows, everybody's addictions and all their issues.
38:32
Everybody knows. So somebody's got it. Somebody's got to reach out and
38:40
and there's got to be help there first. Okay, if you can catch
38:45
it. But if if I'm like, if you come to me and say,
38:47
you know, hey, man, you know you need to stay out
38:51
of that gamble. You need to stay out of that bar, you need
38:52
to stay out of that hauling that old boy to get those drugs it,
38:57
you know, and I'm and I can't listen to you. I'm on the
39:04
other end. I think it's problematic. Like I said, I understand what
39:07
you're saying, but I think it's problematic because to your point that you said
39:12
earlier, you can't be sponsored as subsidized by pretty much a lot of gaming
39:17
industry, a lot of gaming companies, and then alcohol and everything, and
39:22
and then and then say well you can't participate in that, right, and
39:25
then you can't say well you can't participate it, and then like, if
39:30
you are having trouble, we're just gonna let you go instead of trying to
39:32
get you some help. So I think maybe there needs to be some conversations
39:37
up front before you get these guys all this money, to say, hey,
39:39
look, these are the issues just how you find yourself in trouble,
39:42
and you have to give them some leeway. Maybe absolutely, you have to
39:46
know, you have to give them leeway to get it again, if I
39:51
tell you not to gamble, okay, you're gonna know because if you gamble,
39:55
if I catch you gambling, this is this is the consequences you gonna
39:59
You're gonna wait consequences and say no, I ain't gonna do that. How
40:01
do you How do you say that, though? How do you say that
40:05
when a large portion of your revenues coming from gaming that's the NFL's fault.
40:10
That's how you say that though, But I'm just saying that was my original
40:15
argument is is that. How are you going to say that gambling is something
40:22
that we can't do and you are you're getting money from it. Yeah,
40:28
that's what I'm saying. You're bringing in money from from the whole gambling circuit,
40:32
and yet you're telling me not the gam I just don't. And again,
40:36
see that's that is an issue. That's this issue, And how does
40:38
it not get out of control? How do you not have guys like John
40:43
tay Porter basically betting on themselves and then doing things to manipulate why we have
40:49
the line, that's why, that's that's why we have it. So I'm
40:52
saying, like, what is the what is it? What? And let
40:54
me get back to my original question, is this, how does this infect
41:01
the integrity of the game, like not just from an outcome standpoint, but
41:07
also from a viewer how we're viewing the game, because I think the lens
41:10
in which we're viewing again, what I hear a lot now is about gaming
41:15
as opposed to strategy or whatever. You see what I'm saying because I'm a
41:20
kid, and I'm a kid who grew up on NFL films where they would
41:22
play the class good music. So it was like a romanticizing of like sports.
41:27
Well that's kind of gone with this, Yes, you know so,
41:31
I think the biggest thing is most players who gamble, who know they're not
41:40
supposed to be and I'm saying gambling because they're betting on the sport, right,
41:45
Yeah, there is no way to get caught unless you actually do something
41:52
to get you cot. You gotta do something. You gotta do something some
41:57
kind of way. Nobody's following you home, following you to you know,
42:01
to the to the to the gambling site. Well you if you if you
42:07
are, because you have a paper trail. So if I have my debit
42:08
card and my my money, I have a profile on this site some kind
42:12
of I don't know how they find out, Yeah, but the league finds
42:16
out. Yeah, you know. To me, I think you're you're you're
42:22
taking either a risk or you got a problem if you're gambling and you're gambling
42:28
on teams playing in the sports, because you know you you already know the
42:34
consequences to that. Hollins is, I'm out. I'm done. See I
42:39
see. I don't necessarily, I don't know if I have an issue about
42:45
these players betting on teams and different things. They're betting on like this team's
42:49
gonna beat that team, where it's going to be the score. I think
42:52
my problem was more of like the prop betting, like this player is going
42:55
to have this many points or this many stills. And I think what the
43:00
ncuble A is trying to do, the n CUBA president Charlie Baker, he
43:05
is calling for a ban on college prop betting. So basically, you can't
43:08
make these small bets like this player is going to do this, or this
43:14
player is going to have this many rushing yards. You know, the betting
43:16
is going to be more team oriented. So I think you know one way
43:21
we could possibly curve these problems now and again, not stop them, but
43:25
you could probably curve these problems. It's to eliminate the prop betting, like
43:30
the small bets. Right, because if I'm a running back, or more
43:32
importantly, if I'm a quarterback, maybe can control this line, right,
43:37
I know that I could maybe control the path, my passing percentage or how
43:43
many touchdowns I throw for right, I can control these things. And I
43:45
think it just gives too much leeway to breaking down the integrity of sports and
43:52
the trust that we have that these are legitimate competitions. With the number of
43:57
people who have already been caught, it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah,
44:00
from the number of people who have been caught, it's clear to say that
44:08
everybody's not learning that lesson, okay, and because if you already that guy.
44:15
See, I never I never grew up around betting or any of that
44:21
kind of stuff. You know. You know, most things I'm gonna do
44:23
is like I bet you five dollars, I can outrun you. You know
44:27
what I'm saying. But you know that was that was all we knew.
44:30
So I never even I had never been to a gambling place like in Vegas
44:37
until I was I was in the pros, you know, so you know
44:42
I knew of it, but never even with a thought to go, like
44:46
why would I go to Vegas? Then you then you're playing Vegas. You
44:51
see it. Now there's all kinds of reasons to go to Vegas out you
44:54
know, outside of the whole gambling thing. But you know, I went,
44:59
and I I think I stayed like a week or something in Vegas and
45:01
all times, yeah, and bro I spent less than twenty dollars in the
45:07
game. See. I grew up like with the with the parlay cards and
45:12
different things. My thing is just like I just like I can't control none
45:15
of that. Like if I'm putting my money on this, like I don't
45:20
have no control and over there other than what I think is going to happen,
45:24
you know what I mean. I'm not see, I'm not not wired
45:27
that way. Yeah, I'm not interested in losing. Yeah, not you
45:30
know, but somebody don't have any control nothing Like I like the I like
45:35
the idea of blackjack, although like I'm said, I'm not a professional.
45:37
I don't want to spend the time to learn it. But at least you
45:39
have some semblance of control, even like the slot machines and all this other
45:45
stuff. It's like it never appealed to me just because I just done.
45:47
That's all I that's all. I spent my money on the slots. Yeah,
45:52
I mean that's just fun. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's
45:53
you know, click, Nope, ain't when you know, you just go
46:00
throw your quarterback and like it was and I didn't really even get it because
46:07
I didn't really win anything. So I come out like why would anybody really
46:12
be like, what what is the hook? Where's the hook? But that
46:17
comes from that, that comes from the people who know what they're doing.
46:21
I don't know. I think some people just like the competition. Some people
46:24
are like type A. They just want to They just want it's just another
46:29
area of competition. It's like the Michael Jordan. You watch the document,
46:31
he's throwing like quarter shooting contest. He's just a competitive person. And let's
46:37
be clear. You know, we are a sports talk show, so it
46:40
may be something the usual. We might have a sponsor that's a gaming and
46:45
I think too, I think our point is not to say that it's nothing
46:49
really wrong, but I think there has to be something. It has to
46:52
be parameters, because I think even the gaming organizations would agree that they don't
46:58
want the intech of sports question, because then I think people would maybe limit
47:06
to how they bet see if they feel like it's a setup. See.
47:08
I think I think if if the gambling world and sports, all sports that
47:15
people want to gamble on, come together and say, Okay, here is
47:21
the perfect scenario that we can we can create and this will keep you know,
47:27
this will keep guys from you know, finding themselves broke or whatever.
47:32
If we're gonna, if we're gonna be part of it, we need to
47:35
be symbolic of not the guy who ends up getting booted out of the league.
47:40
That can't be the there's no relationship between gambling and the NFL or NBA.
47:49
When guys are betting on themselves, betting on their team, betting on
47:52
another team, there's there's there's there's no there's no collaboration there that's working.
47:58
So why would you, then a why would you affiliate the league with it
48:05
when it when you haven't even built a camaradity between players if a player is
48:10
if a player is in your gambling facility, and I know this is not
48:15
probably realistically could happen, but and you know there's an issue, you got
48:20
to say something. You got to be you got to be able to you
48:22
know, you got to be able to get back to that because you know
48:25
a lot of these guys, Charles Barkley, wherever he goes, somebody gonna
48:30
know that's Charles bark And if you see that, that's a problem. If
48:38
you can understand if there's a legitimate problem there, who's who's supposed to step
48:44
in? Say I like that idea, I think definitely, because I mean
48:49
I'm looking at like it's just a multitude of you know, scandals that have
48:54
happened, and this is just this just goes back to twenty eighteen. I
48:58
was gonna say that was my question, how far five years ago? And
49:01
it is, it's just a multitude of guys in the n NFL, NBA,
49:06
hockey, all baseball there, you know, for various scandals surrounding gambling.
49:10
So I think to your point, it is it would probably be healthy
49:14
conversations or healthy conversation need to be had between gaming, between sports to say,
49:19
hey, these are the parameters, this is what need to happen.
49:22
We need to utilize things like one eight hundred gambling. If this a player
49:25
or if these players have a problem, you know, so I could I
49:30
could definitely buy that. And I think that definitely needs to be And I'm
49:32
sure they're having some some conversations we might not even know about, but it
49:37
seems like it needs to tighten and it needs to be. It needs to
49:39
be, it needs to be quicker. Yeah, And then I think,
49:43
and again, you have to have these conversations when things happen, but you
49:46
also have to have these conversations before anything happens. It has to be warnings
49:50
and education prior. If you were to go down that list and and and
49:53
say a number how many that I don't know if it numbers them, how
50:00
many? Give me a estimation of how many there is. I mean,
50:07
we'll do you take twenty twenty four. Since January twenty fifth, there's been
50:10
nine incidents. Okay, so nine since January. Since January of this year,
50:15
January of this year, there's been nine reported incidents reported. Yea,
50:20
these these are headlines. These are the headlines. We don't know who's still
50:23
out there that's still about to get caught. So that's nine players who potentially
50:30
have lost their career or had some issue or had some issue, they had
50:35
some issue in and around gamb layers in organization, Yes, and in organization.
50:40
So when do you start to think that that's a problem. Yeah,
50:45
I mean it it's And here's the other thing. Nobody would have known that
50:52
number. Nobody would have even gone to even look to even care to see
50:57
how many people is actually affecting. Imagine that's that's non athletes. Okay,
51:02
since yeah, since athletes or in organization and or people in the organization,
51:08
how many just normal people? Yeah, I mean that's a whole differences.
51:13
You know what I'm saying how many, how many just regular people are tied
51:17
up and and and and hooked into into this reality. And again we're not
51:24
talking about gambling. Is fine? Do you you know what I'm saying,
51:28
Like, it don't bother me. I don't. I don't have anything against
51:30
it. But but you can't let it destroy somebody and you and you have
51:35
to be able to see. And I know that's hard because I keep putting
51:38
money in it. You making money? How you gonna stop me for putting
51:43
money in it? I just say go home. I just think, above
51:45
anything else, looking at like the big picture, I think what's best for
51:50
the sports organizations, leagues, players, and the gaming em betting organizations is
51:55
to never be in a situation where the integrity of the game is questioned,
52:01
because I would never want to be one of these internet betting sites and then
52:07
have my organization tied to some player who was doing something to have a predetermined
52:13
outcome of the game. That's what I would never want, because again I
52:16
think, it just questions everything. Right, Everything would be up for debate,
52:22
whether this is real, whether it's is scripted, blase blah. So
52:24
I think to your point, you know, everybody's got to get on the
52:29
same page with this, and some rules have got to be created. I
52:31
know it seems like on the show we keep talking my rules got to be
52:35
creating and governing bodies. But I think that's how you temper things. And
52:40
then, you know what, I'm glad that you I'm glad that you made
52:43
you made that comment about always talking about some some something needs to be something
52:49
needs to be done. Why is it, though, that things that need
52:58
to be done can be seen so easily and yet nothing, nothing's done.
53:07
I think you got money in the way. I think if somebody's saying,
53:09
hey, I'm gonna give you a couple of billion dollars or some tens of
53:13
millions of hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, to you know,
53:15
advertise on your site or put a logo on your team's jersey, you're thinking
53:22
about that. You know, if we talk about the w NBA and one
53:24
of these organizations, Hey, I'm gonna give you league hundred million dollars to
53:28
do this, they probably all right, yell, sign up. We'll figure
53:30
everything else out later, you know what I mean, We'll deal with all
53:34
the other stuff later. Let's get this money. Basically, really what you're
53:37
saying is money is the money? Yeah, I think it's money, and
53:42
you you're you're looking at the opportunity. I'm not evenna just say money.
53:45
I just think you're looking at the opportunity and not necessarily looking at the big
53:50
picture. One of the lessons I've learned being on the legislator is that one
53:53
of the best lessons I learned. He told me, don't worry about what
53:58
the bills saying. He said, where out with the bill? Don't say
54:00
yes? Okay, yeah, I like that. I like that. So
54:05
I think that's the way you got to start looking at these things. All
54:07
right, Well, I'm going to give another shout out to frank Walker.
54:13
You can let me just say it this way, okay, because I want
54:16
to say something about Frankie, because that's what I call him, Frankie.
54:22
I appreciate the fact that he took the time to sponsor Let's Talk, and
54:27
he's actually our first sponsor, and hopefully we're going to get him on the
54:31
show, and not not necessarily just to talk about his sponsorship, but just
54:36
to I think Hollis wants to talk about, you know, him being at
54:39
State and playing ball and all that kind of stuff. But anyway, Frankie
54:45
Walker Real Talk, Real Experience, Real Results. You can catch him at
54:51
Frankie walkerlow dot com for more information. All right. You can catch Let's
54:55
Talk with Carl Lee every Sunday at one pm and at seven pm on five
55:01
to eighty WCHS. You can also if you miss an episode, you can
55:06
go to wchsnetwork dot com slash Let's Talk to listen. To listen to it
55:12
online. You can follow us also on Facebook at Let's Talk with Carl Lee
55:16
for any of the updates. All right, So, hollis you got anything?
55:20
We tell them how if they if they are interested in advertising on the
55:24
show, how they can get in contact with us. Actually, you can
55:28
call WCHS and ask for Dale Cooper and he or you can come to the
55:35
station eleven eleven Virginia Street and Charleston and ask to speak to Dale Cooper and
55:40
he will get you set up. Yes, sir, all right, all
55:44
right, ladies and gentlemen, we will be back with you next week.
55:46
Appreciate you listening. Let's Talk with Carl Lee is presented by Attorney Frank Walker
55:52
Real Talk, Real Experience, Real Results. Frank Walkerlaw dot com. Comment
55:57
on episodes, ask Carl and Hollis questions, or it suggests topics. At
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our Facebook page, search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee and remember to like
56:06
the page to become part of the conversation. If you fall, does it,
56:08
don't forget back up for your feet. Anything will be a win,
56:12
yup, even the feet that says shit's a bath for you wise Villary Sweet
56:15
couldn't play with big kids. I had to sit in the street and watch
56:19
from a distance. But over time I grew. If I put in the
56:22
work, in no time, I'm doing everything that I worked and prayed.
56:25
I'm okay. If you ask me how did I do it, I'm gonna
56:29
say. You gotta work, cry shine, just mine gotta show everybody is
56:34
my time here. You gotta work, cry shine. Never mind who talking
56:38
died this day line, don't talk. You gotta work. You gotta work.
56:45
You gotta work, You gotta work, You gotta work, you gotta work.