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Clay's New Favorite Game! · Operation Game Night

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Operation Game Night Podcast.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Today, I, Travis Smith, am joined by my co-host and Pharaoh of the Nile, Clayton Gable.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, Clay?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great, Travis.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me tonight.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't be better.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because today we're talking about Raw.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: One of the best auction games ever made.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Clay, what do you think about Raw?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: What are your takes on Raw?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Travis, is this in your top 10?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's probably up there, honestly.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's our top 10.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it might have been like honorable mention, maybe.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's my hot take.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my tagline.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is our thumbnail for the episode.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think this week Raw just moved itself up as my number one game of all time.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think it has earned that place.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Dang.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I feel about it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of games to play with or to uh compete against.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is a lot of games to compete against.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I've played this so much now.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, almost more.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely more than any other game that takes 45 plus minutes.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna dig into my stats here real quick.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you give the people a brief overview of how Ra is played?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So Raw, uh more specifically, I'm gonna talk the 25th century Pharaoh Edition because damn, that edition is so good.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Designed by Reiner Kenizia, uh art by Ian O'Toole, a legendary duo in their own right, created in a legendary game.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not pharaoh edition, sun god edition.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sun god edition.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one with like the clicky clacky.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: It is Pharaoh Edition.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Don't second guess yourself, Travis.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I always not here on your podcast.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It plays two to five players in 45 to 60 minutes.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh weight of 2.31 on BGG, and uh it's recommended for ages 12 and up.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: The community says nay, 10 and up.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can get this played with a 10-year-old.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is an auction game where you are uh auctioning off sun tiles, which are of different values, to obtain tiles that are of different sets, and the sets might be monuments, it might be events, it might be crops, it might be floods, it might be you know a whole bunch of different stuff that you're trying to collect uh for.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the kicker of this whole game is that the auction can trigger at any time.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: You either draw a raw tile out of the baggie, which we know uh Jared would love to talk about right now.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Drawing out of the baggie feels really good, or at any time on your turn, you can grab the raw, the big uh statue in the middle, the big Pharaoh statue, and say, I declare raw and start the auction immediately.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: You get one chance to go, one chance to go around, right?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or it just goes around and one chance, one chance, one chance to go around the horn and bid your sun tiles that you have available to you.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you win, you collect all those tiles that are out there and you swap your sun tile with the one that was up for grabs.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the kicker of this whole game is that you cannot just infinitely increase your bids.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have to play with the sun tiles that are given to you.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Once you have bid with one of your sun tiles, you collect the new one.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: The new one goes face down to be played the next turn.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So not only are you bidding to collect as many tiles as you can, to collect those sets, to score those rounds in the epic that you're playing.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Epoch?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Epoch?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh epic.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I always call it an epic.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you're also setting yourself up for future epics with your additional sun tiles.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: What did I miss, Clay?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you that's a good overview.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the things that yeah, that's the basics.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the things that also make it interesting is that these tiles you collect come in two varieties, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have your tiles that will persist throughout the whole game.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So your monuments, you can collect them across all three epics, epochs.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you have your pharaoh tiles that persist, and you have your river tiles that persist.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: The other side of the board, you have tiles that get cleared at the end of the round.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you have things like civilization tiles, and those are ones that you at least want to get one of, because if you don't get one of them, they're the white tiles, you lose five points that round.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so every round you're like in the scramble, like, I better get my civilization tile or I'm gonna lose five points.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then the flood is also one that you have to get rid of every round, and the flood is a prerequisite to make all your river tiles score.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So over here on my left side of the board, I can have seven river tiles that I've been collecting over the course of the rounds.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Big points to be had.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: But if in this epic I didn't get a flood tile, those don't score me anything.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a really cool piece of the game, too, is the persistent tiles versus ones that you have to keep reacquiring every round.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um another thing that I really appreciate about Ra is the timer on the track.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Ra on a boat that you know, you Travis mentioned you can always grab the big chonky raw statue and declare an auction for yourself.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, people are greedy for whatever reason, and you know, sometimes those auctions don't happen.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But in the bag, there's a boatload of these red tiles, the raw tiles.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you pull one of those out on your turn, it immediately triggers an auction and it moves this boat on the track.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when that boat go gets to the end of the track, the round is over.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So more often than you would think, you know, usually you have three to four sun discs that you can bib with each epic.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and more often than you think it would happen, you can be holding out because you're you're sitting there and you're like, okay, I got the 16.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best sun disc.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get something great for this.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're waiting and waiting, but raw auctions keep happening, and you know, nothing seems worthwhile throwing your 16 out on.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: But in that time, these red ones keep coming out and the boat moving down the track, and then when the last raw tile gets pulled from the bag and you move to the final space, the auction doesn't even happen.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody that hadn't spent their sun discs sits there and looks like a doofus, but they didn't get tiles.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've had times where I've, you know, at two of my three sun discs I didn't even use in a round, and that just happens because you, you know, it there is that element of chance when you're pulling those tiles from the bag and you take a you take a gamble and hope that you're gonna get something better, and it doesn't end up happening.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's like that is the most interesting part of this game is that anybody can trigger that auction at any time.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a set pacing at which those happen.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can really put the pressure on people and put the screws to people to make make force them to make difficult decisions with their their sun tiles that they have left.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm behind and I have like a one, two, and a three sun tile, the chances of me winning something out there are slim to none.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like if we get into a bidding war, right?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: If I grab that raw tile early on before all the good stuff gets out there, I might be able to sneak away with a couple of tiles that could set me up for later rounds.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that I'll be guaranteed to upgrade my sun tile that I have for the next epic.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like some serious swings to this that make this game just so tasty.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I oh my god, it's so fired up just talking about this game.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: You just live in each other's heads the whole game because you can see exactly what everybody has, you can see what they're collecting, you can see what might be valuable to them, you can see what sun discs they have, and you're like, what how long do I let this lot build up before I pull that, pull the trigger on this auction?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you know, it's just trying to figure out what other people are valuing this thing at.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also a tricky part about this game because first time you play, you're kind of like, I mean, most people the first time I play, they have an okay time, but just because they don't quite understand the pacing and the value of things and how to they either end up blowing their log really early, they're like, Well, this is easy, I can win every auction, and they're like winning these, winning these lots of two and three, and then they're like sitting there for the next 20 minutes while everybody else finishes out the epic, or they go the other route and play way too conservative and don't bid on anything and end up you know ending the round with no tiles and then they feel bad because they've lost points.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it does, you know, although it's kind of it's not hard to teach, but it is hard to get people to understand what what they should be doing and what's a smart play, because I mean you can throw it all away in this game by making some poor bids.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I think while I while I did say that it's very swingy and that you have some power if you are limited in in the sun discs that you can bid.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that if you get off to a bad start that first round, it is so hard to come back from in those future epics.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: If that first epic goes poorly for you and you're not sitting on the monument tiles you need to be, or the river tiles, or the ones that persist, man, that is a uphill climb.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it becomes so difficult to claw your way out in those second and third epics.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's for sure.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've we just had that last night when we played with Britney.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: She again, it was her first time playing, and she was overzealous and was like, Oh, hell yeah.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna you guys bid uh three and a four.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I got a 15.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take I'll take those two.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then she you know ended the round and didn't have a civilization tile.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: She was in last place for the pharaohs, so she lost seven there, and she had only collected monuments, so there was no positive points, and her first round ended with like a negative seven score, which she didn't love, and I can see why, but it's just one of those things you gotta you gotta learn in the school of hard knocks um when you're playing raw.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this yeah, and you mentioned that this one comes, it it has a benefit to playing it multiple times, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like once you understand the flow and the pacing of the game, you get a lot smarter with how you allocate your sun discs.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this is one that you and I and Rachel and Mary sat down and played like back to back to back to back to back at Dice Tower West.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that was the first time I had ever played it, and it got better and better every time.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I we played this one and high society so many times at Dice Tower West.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and like you know, people go out of their way at Dice Tower West to play these games at like the hotness, yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: The hotness, or like the this was before this version, by the way.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: With the old cardboard tiles and everything, yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, this was like an instant back for me when 25th century put this out there on Kickstarter because damn, this game is so good.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to play it now.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I gotta get a crew together.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: There are so few games that I like genuinely feel like they get better every time I play.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and every time I play this game, I just see some new interaction and I appreciate even if I'm not in the round anymore, just seeing what people do, like, oh my god, is he gonna bid on that or are they gonna try and take it with this tile?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, is he gonna pull the yeah?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: It just is such an interactive game, and it has strategy and it has depth, and it has push your luck.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, though the way to get back is to hope to God that that you're like left as the only one at the end of the round.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, everybody else has spent all their discs, and you're there with your one value sun disc, and you can just fill the entire auction row up until you draw a sun dog.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Until you until you draw that raw thing and you lose it all.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it gives you those stand-up moments, and man, it is good.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: There was something else I was gonna say.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead, Travis.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say that it feels great to grab that uh Pharaoh statue off the middle of the table, too.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It just sits out there, it's eyeing everybody as that row fills up, and people are sitting there like eyeing the thing every time a uh another tile comes out, they're looking at their sun tiles, they're looking at the Raw statue.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when's it who's gonna pull it?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it time yet?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And people are all sitting there wringing their hands, waiting for that next pull out of the bag.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that and you mentioned this is jumped to the top of your list.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if if we're talking games that I have played this year, this one is definitely in the top 10 because I did play this one multiple times this year, and it never gets old.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you remember what you were gonna say?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I am I'm circling it in my mind.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is something to do with those.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think Paul Solomon said something about it, like yeah, how you think it's good to have the 16.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but then some like you you think it's good to have that biggest tile and it feels powerful, yeah, but then you get greedy, and nobody is going to as smart smart players are not gonna let that thing fill up.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then it does force you into those decisions, and then if you wait too long, everybody is already out of the round, and you still have your you know highest tile, and then you end up winning a lot with something you could have won with something much smaller, yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it just has that perfect balance, like it's just mathematically brilliant, and the interaction is beautiful.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um because he said Paul Solomon said on decision space that this was like this was his top game, this was his favorite game that he played this year, and yeah, I love that analysis.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like whether you have the one or the 16, you are faced with a decision in there that is like excruciating, yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anywhere in between those two, like in those middle, like seven, eight, five, like you've got some wiggle room, and you can kind of manipulate players and manipulate that decision space a bit to make the most of what those tiles can give you.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: But those like ones, 16, 15s, 2's, like you gotta be savvy and and know when to strike, otherwise, you're gonna end up sitting on them until the end and it gets you nothing.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing at all.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: What a good take.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I yeah, and just shout out to the decision space guys.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it if you if this if our bumbling around about raw sounds interesting to you, go listen to their episode about Raw because they talk about it for like an hour and a half and just dive into every juicy decision in this game at a level that we could never dream of.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you, this is now my favorite game of all time.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see that changing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is just that that game that just works well at three players, it works well at five players.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's just right in that sweet spot of like 45 to 60 minutes and simple enough to teach, like oh, and the interaction is there.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a face-down tableau builder, everybody's doing their own thing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody is very involved in every pull from the bag.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there is not a moment when you are not engaged in this game, so yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: How long is it engaging?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's cutthroat.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is cutthroat because everyone can see what you need, and they are going to do everything they can to not let you get that thing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so spicy so fast.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: What we don't need to beat the dead horse, but I would, you know, play raw.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Go play raw.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Go find a copy of Raw, new or old.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you can find the nice acrylic tiles with the big chunky raw statue, good on you.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: If not, go buy a copy from 1999, and it's just as good.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: It plays just as smart, just as fast, just as cutthroat.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's always good.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Did we put this on the Mount Rushmore?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: We should.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think we did actually.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think we did.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm pretty sure this one's on there.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've talked about this plenty of times, but this we wanted to give it its space to breathe, you know, in a dedicated episode.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not decision space.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Also, also go listen to decision space.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: We let it breathe a little bit.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: They put that thing on oxygen, and that is full of life.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh speaking of decision space, I really want to talk to you about the uh interview with Cole Worley that he just did.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's oh my god.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or I do a whole let me listen to it six more times and then we get we're gonna have a discussion about it because it's my mind is blown.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think our podcast should just be like, you know how there's uh podcasts that like just do follow-ups of TV shows.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we should just do the decision space fancast and just be like, whoa, that was awesome when Paul made that point about this.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll have to do a uh an update every once in a while.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so good.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I love that podcast.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, yeah, for the only board gaming podcast for board gaming outsiders.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Operation Game Night.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have been Travis, he has been Clay.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: We have been talking raw by Renner Kenizia, and we are out.