Latest / The Parenting Podcast / It’s Just Tuesday: The Decisions That Don’t Feel Like Decisions | Ep. 221

Transcript

It’s Just Tuesday: The Decisions That Don’t Feel Like Decisions | Ep. 221 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Cheryl: I stepped in to relieve my anxiety rather than objectively saying, Is this the best thing for them?"
• 0:08
  Speaker: Some of the biggest parenting decisions never feel big when you're making them.
• 0:15
  Speaker: They just feel like Tuesday.
• 0:19
  Speaker: Parenting has a way of hiding important things inside a very ordinary day
• 0:34
  Cheryl: Christie, I had something I wanted us to talk about today, a little bit from selfish motives
• 0:41
  Christie: Oh, okay
• 0:43
  Cheryl: Obviously I'm not in my active parenting years anymore Right But there was a real issue that I struggled with all of my parenting years, and even into following my children into their young adult lives
• 0:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 1:00
  Cheryl: And at this point in my life, it's not the issue that it was, but I, I would love to process it to kind of figure it out.
• 1:08
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:09
  Cheryl: For our audience, but also with you, I'd love to delve into this because I hear it from parents a lot, or I can see someone struggling with it, and they may not know they're struggling.
• 1:21
  Christie: Mm.
• 1:22
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:22
  Cheryl A: It's the struggle to parent our children well and not overprotect?
• 1:27
  Christie: Oh, yes.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: Do you identify
• 1:29
  Christie: with that?
• 1:29
  Christie: I do.
• 1:30
  Christie: I do.
• 1:31
  Christie: Yeah, I feel like this struggle characterized all of my parenting- Me too and still does, even, like you said, in young adult years.
• 1:39
  Cheryl: It's really hard.
• 1:40
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: And then I don't know if you've noticed, but my children, as they got older in their teens, and then particularly in their 20s and up, a lot of times they armchair quarterbacked my parenting.
• 1:55
  Christie: Sure.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Even when they were, experiencing my parenting.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: Parents.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: And they only kind of fell in one place.
• 2:02
  Cheryl: I was overprotecting.
• 2:03
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 2:04
  Cheryl: I was doing too much, and so we had lots of conversations about it.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: And then even after I wasn't, um, active parenting, there have been a lot of conversations, did I overprotect?
• 2:17
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 2:17
  Cheryl: And
• 2:17
  Carol: they mostly voted On the, yes, you did.
• 2:20
  Carol: So talk with me a little bit about it because for a nurturing, caring, engaged parent, personally, I think this is a daily struggle.
• 2:30
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:30
  Cheryl: Whether they're little, tiny, and certainly as they get older, teens into young adults, where is the line between what I'm really supposed to do to protect them-
• 2:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 2:42
  Cheryl: and where am I supposed to be releasing and, I guess, preparing them for adulthood?
• 2:47
  Christie: I mean, that's the question from day one.
• 2:49
  Christie: You know, I'm, I'm watching, you know, we just had my granddaughter in town.
• 2:53
  Christie: Oh.
• 2:53
  Christie: She's 18 months, and so obviously watching my daughter parent a one-year-old is taking me back to all those thoughts- Yeah and feelings I had parenting one-year-olds.
• 3:03
  Christie: And then just knowing the 18 years she's got ahead of her to get this child to adulthood, and, um, you know, that, from the very beginning, those are the questions you're asking.
• 3:15
  Christie: Should I do this?
• 3:17
  Christie: Should I do that?
• 3:18
  Christie: Which is the best?
• 3:19
  Christie: And it all comes from a really pure place of what you said.
• 3:22
  Christie: Of course it does.
• 3:22
  Christie: We're wanting to be attentive parents.
• 3:24
  Christie: We're wanting to be engaged and caring parents, and so we set out with the best of intentions, but we learn very quickly that loving our children well takes many forms.
• 3:39
  Carol: I could parent my children so much better now 20 and 30 years later.
• 3:45
  Christie: Right.
• 3:46
  Cheryl: That's why I wanted to have this conversation, because I think this is a discernment that really matters because, first it depends your whole view of how you see your parenting.
• 3:56
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Are you parenting towards releasing, and I used the word a while ago, preparing them for adulthood?
• 4:02
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:03
  Cheryl: Or are you curating them to bring them into adulthood because hovering around them and protecting them will help them escape so many things so they can get to their adulthood?
• 4:18
  Christie: Right.
• 4:19
  Christie: And like we've talked about, you know, releasing- Oh doesn't start at 18.
• 4:24
  Christie: No.
• 4:24
  Christie: W- it starts when, you know, mommy sleeps in this bed and baby sleeps in this bed.
• 4:29
  Christie: And so we're starting very early at that pre-releasing, um, almost from the very beginning of parenting.
• 4:37
  Cheryl: Yeah, and, and I was thinking about this and reading some things that wise people have said, and one of the things they said, part of it is, yes, w- our job as parents is to protect our children, but we have to stop before that protection becomes prevention.
• 4:56
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 4:56
  Christie: And, okay- I like the way that's worded, yeah.
• 4:58
  Cheryl: I mean, it felt neglectful to me-
• 5:01
  Christie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
• 5:01
  Cheryl: you know, to say,"Well, they'll figure it out." I f- I felt like I was just throwing them out to the wolves.
• 5:06
  Christie: Yes.
• 5:07
  Cheryl: I did not have the discernment between that nurturing, engaged, loving parenting, and helping them figure it out on their own.
• 5:18
  Cheryl: So what are the things that you struggled with?
• 5:22
  Cheryl: What were you trying to prevent and protect your
• 5:25
  Cheryl A: children from?
• 5:26
  Christie: right.
• 5:27
  Christie: Yeah, I think early on in, in the younger years of my kids' childhood, I had this mentality that my main primary goal was them, for them to feel supported.
• 5:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:41
  Christie: For them to feel that I was engaged, for them to not feel alone.
• 5:44
  Christie: Mm-hmm,
• 5:44
  Cheryl: mm-hmm.
• 5:45
  Christie: And so that required me to be involved in every- Yes matter of their lives, and that, that works when they're, you know, babies, toddlers, but then as they start growing and a little more independence, you know, you start realizing, oh, they need to fall off the step and realize- Yeah you know, they, they will skin their knee if they don't listen to mom's direction in the beginning, and, and that way they can know like,"Okay, this is a danger for me, and I've got to be careful with this step."
• 6:18
  Cheryl: That is so hard to do when you're actively parenting the first time.
• 6:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm,
• 6:22
  Christie: mm-hmm.
• 6:23
  Cheryl: And I wish I'd had this conversation, again, to help me with it because If I think about, like you're talking about the falling, I would say I did it better on subsequent children.
• 6:35
  Christie: Sure.
• 6:36
  Cheryl: My first, that I need to protect them from things that would make them hurt.
• 6:43
  Christie: Right.
• 6:44
  Cheryl: And then I realized, oh, there's so many things they have to learn for themselves.
• 6:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:50
  Cheryl: Ugh, this is hard, Christie.
• 6:52
  Christie: It is so hard.
• 6:53
  Christie: It is so hard.
• 6:54
  Christie: And, you know, I, I think for me, you said the word negligent earlier, that was a big part of my parenting, was I, I felt if I did not intervene in those, quote-unquote,"dangerous situations," you know, That I was being negligent.
• 7:09
  Christie: That they would feel alone, that they would not feel cared for, and that I needed to be thinking, uh, 10 steps ahead to not let them fall and get hurt.
• 7:20
  Cheryl: Yeah, because we're not just struggling with their pain and discomfort, we're struggling with ours.
• 7:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:27
  Cheryl: See?
• 7:28
  Cheryl: Because it reflects how we feel about ourselves-
• 7:30
  Christie: Right
• 7:31
  Cheryl: and how we feel love should feel.
• 7:35
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:35
  Christie: And I had no way of knowing that at the time, but looking back at my 20-something self, I can see it, it really was more about me feeling like a good mom.
• 7:47
  Christie: You know?
• 7:47
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:47
  Christie: Like, I wanted to feel myself like I was doing a good job.
• 7:52
  Christie: Ugh.
• 7:52
  Christie: And so being over, um, overcautious, over involved, felt like I was doing a, a good work instead of, what does this child need from me right now?
• 8:04
  Cheryl: And that's why having a voice outside of us or listening to someone else- Yeah and I will say, hmm, I tended to dismiss Bill speaking into that-
• 8:14
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 8:15
  Cheryl: because he was a little more objective about it.
• 8:17
  Christie: Yes.
• 8:18
  Cheryl: I, I wasn't.
• 8:20
  Cheryl: I was so subjective.
• 8:21
  Cheryl: And, and there are a lot of places I let my children struggle.
• 8:25
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:25
  Cheryl: Oh, they'll figure it out, they'll figure it out," until I thought it was too important.
• 8:30
  Christie: Right.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: And I stepped in to relieve my anxiety
• 8:34
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 8:35
  Cheryl: rather than objectively saying,"Is this the best thing for them?"
• 8:40
  Christie: Right.
• 8:42
  Christie: Um, less than failure.
• 8:44
  Christie: I think, I think it was more pain.
• 8:46
  Christie: Oh.
• 8:47
  Christie: I didn't want my children to feel pain.
• 8:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:50
  Christie: I wanted to protect them from emotional pain, physical pain- Yes any kind of discomfort.
• 8:57
  Christie: Um, I just wanted to provide an easy life for them.
• 9:01
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 9:02
  Christie: I had the illusion that I could do that all of their days.
• 9:04
  Cheryl: And that doing that would prepare them to be adults.
• 9:08
  Christie: Right.
• 9:08
  Christie: And
• 9:09
  Cheryl: intellectually, if someone had said that to me, I would realize that doesn't make sense.
• 9:12
  Cheryl: Of
• 9:13
  Christie: course.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: So I totally agree with you, particularly after we lost their dad.
• 9:18
  Christie: Mm.
• 9:19
  Cheryl: Um, I wanted to protect them from pain.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: Of course
• 9:21
  Christie: you did.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:24
  Cheryl: I, I don't even know if, if someone had spoken to me, I don't even know if I could have heard it.
• 9:28
  Christie: Right.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: Because like you, I was compelled to say,"They've hurt, this hurts enough."
• 9:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:34
  Cheryl: Look, I wanna
• 9:35
  Cheryl A: guard them from The pain- Right emotional pain particularly, um, failure I didn't mind.
• 9:40
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 9:40
  Cheryl A: I let my kids fail.
• 9:42
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 9:42
  Cheryl A: Let's try that.
• 9:43
  Cheryl A: My kids are very entrepreneurial.
• 9:45
  Cheryl A: Uh, I wanna develop free thinkers, So a lot of failure and stuff I didn't mind.
• 9:52
  Christie: Yes.
• 9:53
  Cheryl: But I didn't want the pain, and I wanted to avoid bad choices, and that was huge.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: Once they got to, particularly to teen years and so forth, I thought I could protect and curate enough to keep them from bad choices.
• 10:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:12
  Cheryl: And we want to do that to a degree.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 10:15
  Cheryl: But that's where you have to figure out, do I step in?
• 10:19
  Cheryl: Is this a bad choice I need to protect them from, or do I need to let this be part of their process-
• 10:24
  Christie: Right
• 10:25
  Cheryl: that they can figure this out?
• 10:27
  Cheryl: And, and I would make different choices now.
• 10:30
  Christie: Right.
• 10:32
  Christie: Yeah, and giving them that freedom to make those choices- Yes always has the option of making a bad choice, right?
• 10:40
  Christie: It sure does.
• 10:40
  Christie: So it's a lot easier to just control the situation and keep that bad choice from being an option.
• 10:46
  Cheryl: I've had this conversation, particularly when my kids were in their teens, and this is one of those ones that continued as they armchair, quarterbacked my parenting-
• 10:55
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 10:55
  Cheryl: that I overprotected, but I gave them the illustration, well, but for example, if your arm's a little sore, we wouldn't put a cast on it.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: That's overprotection.
• 11:06
  Christie: Sure.
• 11:07
  Cheryl: But if your arm is broken, and it could be a serious wound, we have to put that cast on.
• 11:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:13
  Cheryl: But as it's healing and getting stronger, then we go down to whatever, a splint, and then maybe eventually maybe just a sling, and then you have to use it.
• 11:23
  Cheryl: And I said,"What I'm trying to do is only do the amount of protection that you need and then slowly release it." They didn't buy into it.
• 11:35
  Christie: Right.
• 11:36
  Christie: Well, and maybe characterizing you by the times that you did overprotect.
• 11:41
  Christie: Yes, yes.
• 11:41
  Christie: They're, they're giving a blanket, uh, statement over your whole parenting- Yes years.
• 11:47
  Cheryl: But also, they didn't understand, what we're talking about here is a spectrum.
• 11:51
  Christie: Mm.
• 11:52
  Cheryl: And it's really hard in real time-
• 11:55
  Christie: Yes
• 11:55
  Cheryl: to know, do I need to put the cast on?
• 11:59
  Christie: Right.
• 11:59
  Cheryl: Or is this just a time that they have to try and use that arm even if they injure it?
• 12:04
  Christie: Right.
• 12:05
  Christie: Yeah, and as you're saying that, I'm thinking another thing I was trying to avoid well, two things.
• 12:11
  Christie: One, their perspective of me.
• 12:13
  Christie: I wanted my kids- Oh, yeah to like me.
• 12:14
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Christie: So I wanted to make them happy, but also my own failure.
• 12:18
  Christie: Ugh.
• 12:18
  Christie: I did not want to fail as a mother, so I think I often overcompensated.
• 12:26
  Christie: So I was running to that cast- Oh rather than s- assessing c- would a Band-Aid be appropriate here, you know?
• 12:32
  Christie: I thought if I just go to the nth degree, then I'm surely not gonna fail, you know?
• 12:37
  Christie: I'm taking it to the extreme rather than, um, gauging a little bit more, in a more nuanced way.
• 12:44
  Cheryl: And, and when I hear you, we're thinking this, in the area of failure, that's kind of how I did it.
• 12:50
  Christie: Mm.
• 12:50
  Cheryl: I saw it.
• 12:51
  Cheryl: It was just where it was pain or bad choices, because I didn't want them to suffer.
• 12:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:59
  Cheryl: I wanted to protect them from that, and it's appropriate to have all the conversations and to talk about consequences and so forth.
• 13:08
  Cheryl: I just didn't have the mindset that my job is to equip them and prepare them to be released as autonomous individual adults-
• 13:22
  Christie: Right
• 13:22
  Cheryl: instead of Like, what was that movie where the boy lived in the bubble- Mm.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm'cause he had autoimmune diseases or something, and he-
• 13:31
  Christie: Yeah, I don't remember the name of it, but-
• 13:32
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:33
  Cheryl: But he had to live in that, and I knew I didn't want to do that.
• 13:37
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:37
  Cheryl: I didn't want to helicopter parent.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: I just didn't have the right questions to ask.
• 13:43
  Christie: Mm.
• 13:43
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 13:44
  Cheryl: And that's what I'd love for us to do, maybe, to bring some questions to help evaluate.
• 13:50
  Cheryl: Trying to get a good diagnosis, the right questions have to be asked.
• 13:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:54
  Cheryl: You know, when you drink milk, does this happen?
• 13:56
  Cheryl: Does it happen in the morning?
• 13:58
  Cheryl: Does it happen more in the springtime?
• 14:00
  Cheryl: There have to be good questions.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: And like some of the things we're saying here, I just didn't know to ask certain questions.
• 14:07
  Christie: Yeah., That would've been helpful to me too.
• 14:09
  Christie: So like what- Yeah, just really- what are some questions that could help us evaluate that?
• 14:14
  Cheryl: Well, one of the things we want them to develop is wisdom.
• 14:19
  Christie: Mm.
• 14:20
  Cheryl: I'm reading a book and okay, it's has adult themes to it.
• 14:26
  Cheryl: But I've enjoyed it.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: It's Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon.
• 14:30
  Cheryl: I don't know if you've read it.
• 14:31
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:31
  Christie: Uh-uh.
• 14:32
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:32
  Cheryl: And so she was a midwife back Revolutionary War-
• 14:35
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 14:36
  Cheryl: time.
• 14:37
  Cheryl: This
• 14:37
  Cheryl A: author Has got to have children, because there's certain things about parenting, and certainly about being a woman, she says, that I really identify with.
• 14:46
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:46
  Cheryl: She has a big family, and she's got preteens now all the way up to grown-ups.
• 14:52
  Christie: Okay.
• 14:52
  Cheryl: And it's the struggle that she talks about-
• 14:56
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 14:56
  Cheryl: woven into the story.
• 14:58
  Cheryl: But one of the things she says, is That we can't acquire wisdom for our children
• 15:05
  Christie: Mm.
• 15:06
  Christie: That is insightful
• 15:07
  Cheryl: It's that they have to figure it out
• 15:09
  Christie: Yeah
• 15:10
  Cheryl: So a mindset I would have wanted to have is the development of wisdom-
• 15:14
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 15:15
  Cheryl: rather than protection mode.
• 15:16
  Christie: Okay, yeah.
• 15:17
  Cheryl: And then, um, one of the questions I would ask, am I willing for them to pay the full consequences and the brunt of that in the situation for who they are and what stage of life they are?
• 15:32
  Christie: Oh, that's really good.
• 15:33
  Christie: Yeah, I, I remember, um, someone along the way giving me the, um, idea of instead of saying, you know,"Hey, you're climbing too high on the tree," instead telling them the consequences that could happen.
• 15:50
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 15:51
  Christie: And I, uh, I became a really big tool in my parenting.
• 15:53
  Christie: But, you know, instead, if, if you say,"That's too high, you need to come down"-
• 15:58
  Cheryl: Yes
• 15:59
  Christie: then- That's perfect.
• 16:00
  Christie: This is what we're talking about then you're telling them, you know, where the boundary line is.
• 16:04
  Christie: And s- and sometimes that's appropriate, but in this situation, instead, you could say,"If you climb any higher, there's a chance you could fall." Mm-hmm.
• 16:12
  Christie: Then it gives them the information to make that decision on their own.
• 16:16
  Christie: And so like you're saying, with wisdom, and you have to be the judge on the consequences- Yeah of what you want them to face.
• 16:24
  Christie: Is that gonna be, you know, a, a major injury?
• 16:28
  Christie: Okay, maybe that's not where you give them the freedom to- Yeah decide that.
• 16:31
  Christie: But if it's a small risk, and you've given them the consequences, and they can make the judgment, then they're growing in wisdom.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: And age and the individual, it- Right that's what matters.
• 16:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:42
  Cheryl: For example, a 14-year-old boy, no, you cannot have a motorcycle.
• 16:46
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: And then this is all the reasons why.
• 16:49
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:50
  Cheryl: But you're talking about a 17, 18-year-old who's worked hard, they've saved their money, and they're buying a motorcycle, it's a different question.
• 16:58
  Christie: Right.
• 16:58
  Cheryl: Because- That's the releasing process.
• 17:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:01
  Cheryl: I have to let them walk in that-
• 17:05
  Christie: Right
• 17:05
  Cheryl: figuring it out.
• 17:07
  Cheryl: My job, hopefully, that we've talked about it, But particularly age is a big
• 17:11
  Carol: factor in That.
• 17:12
  Christie: Yes.
• 17:13
  Christie: Right, and I think that's why I took that advice and applied it so easily back to me feeling negligent if I didn't intervene.
• 17:21
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 17:21
  Christie: That's, that is appropriate intervention is you are equipping your child at that point.
• 17:28
  Christie: You've given them all the information.
• 17:30
  Christie: You've told them, um, the consequences that can happen.
• 17:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:34
  Christie: And they're at an age or season or what- whatever gauge you're gauging by, that's appropriate for them to respond to that information.
• 17:43
  Cheryl: And I didn't know that was what we were supposed to do.
• 17:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 17:46
  Cheryl: I thought we were supposed to do all that, and then they would start making all the right decisions.
• 17:50
  Christie: Right.
• 17:51
  Christie: Right.
• 17:51
  Cheryl: Good parenting in- Uh-huh good kids out.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: And then you think, and you have all those conversations, and, and all the preparing and the explaining and all of that, and then an 18-year-old might buy a motorcycle.
• 18:02
  Christie: Right.
• 18:02
  Christie: You did your part, and now it's up to them to make their choices.
• 18:06
  Cheryl: But I thought if I did all those right, good conversations and- Yeah wise things and show them the studies and everything, that they would never buy a motorcycle.
• 18:15
  Christie: Right.
• 18:15
  Christie: And
• 18:16
  Cheryl: there's the problem, is I thought I would get the fruit of my investment.
• 18:21
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:22
  Cheryl: let's see, we talked about what questions.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: One of them would be, um, before I figure out, is what is the- question or the feeling driving my decision?
• 18:33
  Christie: Oh, that's a good question.
• 18:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:35
  Christie: Asking your own motives.
• 18:36
  Cheryl: My motives.
• 18:37
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 18:37
  Cheryl: Go to my motives.
• 18:38
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: Oh, I'm trying to
• 18:40
  Cheryl A: protect them from pain.
• 18:41
  Christie: mm-hmm.
• 18:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:43
  Cheryl: All right.
• 18:43
  Cheryl: Is this the appropriate place?
• 18:45
  Cheryl: Now,, that's why it's a gamut of things, but-
• 18:47
  Christie: That's what makes it hard.
• 18:48
  Cheryl: Yes And another question is certain, opportunities require protection.
• 18:54
  Cheryl: Some things require experience.
• 18:56
  Cheryl: They've got to learn on their own that failure, that scraped knees, but I'm not gonna let a three-year-old climb to the top of a tree.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:05
  Cheryl: Is this an experience that will build them towards the adult they need to be?
• 19:10
  Christie: Right.
• 19:11
  Cheryl: Or is this a place that just needs protection?
• 19:13
  Christie: Right.
• 19:14
  Christie: Oh, I've got a good example of this.
• 19:16
  Christie: Um, you know, something you used to say- and you still do, is that with freedom comes responsibility.
• 19:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Christie: And, um, you know, I, I wanted to give my kids a lot of freedom, and I had not fully learned this mantra of yours yet.
• 19:30
  Christie: And so, uh, my girls all danced, and so, but they loved to play in their dance shoes.
• 19:36
  Christie: Even though they went to dance once a week- Oh, yes they at home, they loved to play princesses and, and play in their dance shoes.
• 19:42
  Christie: So I would just let them.
• 19:43
  Christie: Well, guess what was happening the 30 minutes before dance class every week?
• 19:47
  Christie: Frantic search for- any number of these eight dance shoes we had to get on the four- Oh, my goodness sets of feet that we had in our home.
• 19:55
  Christie: So I finally got frustrated my, with my own self of this freedom I had given my kids- Yeah and said,"I keep the dance shoes.
• 20:03
  Christie: You know, the, I will keep them in place so that we have- Yeah them, and you'll just have to play with other things." Um, but I remember at some point, my oldest got to probably, you know, close to teen years, and she's like,"Mom, really?
• 20:17
  Christie: You know, can I just keep my own dance shoes?" Well, now she's got a little mother's helper job, and she's making some money, so we were able to attach- Oh that's fine, but y- if you lose them, you have to be the one to replace them.
• 20:31
  Christie: So, you know, back to your question, there was a time where I needed- Yeah to protect them.
• 20:36
  Christie: You know, four-year-olds don't make money, so they can't replace dance shoes.
• 20:39
  Christie: There you go.
• 20:40
  Christie: But as they grew, she needed the experience of having to keep up with her own things and be responsible for them.
• 20:47
  Cheryl: And see, finances are a great place to do that.
• 20:49
  Cheryl: Yes, yes.
• 20:50
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 20:51
  Cheryl: And again, the burn of finances, I don't mind.
• 20:54
  Christie: Right.
• 20:54
  Cheryl: The problem is it isn't black and white- Mm-hmm which is what makes this bad.
• 20:59
  Cheryl: For example, just ordinary parenting moments,'cause the same thing can prepare or overprotect, right?
• 21:07
  Cheryl: So helping them with their homework.
• 21:09
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:10
  Cheryl: Reminding them about their homework.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Calling the teacher, uh, replacing
• 21:16
  Cheryl A: what was forgotten.
• 21:18
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:18
  Cheryl: "Oh, Mom, I didn't bring such and such for the science thing."
• 21:22
  Christie: Right.
• 21:22
  Cheryl: Do I go out and get it, or do I buy more ballet shoes?
• 21:26
  Cheryl: Uh-huh.
• 21:27
  Cheryl: Stepping into conflict with another friend.
• 21:30
  Cheryl: We recently were talking about an example where your kids were in conflict with other friends, and there was kind of bullying and gossip going on.
• 21:37
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:37
  Cheryl: Do we step into that?
• 21:39
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:39
  Cheryl: Okay, all of these, it's appropriate sometimes yes and sometimes no.
• 21:44
  Christie: Right.
• 21:45
  Cheryl: And that's why we have to ask the questions, why am I doing this, and is this a valuable experience, or do I need to intervene a little bit?
• 21:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:56
  Christie: And I think this is, too, an area that was helpful for me, like you said, um, with Bill, to have outside input.
• 22:04
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:04
  Christie: Because as moms, we can be so emotionally invested that it's hard to see things objectively.
• 22:09
  Cheryl: Yeah, and I didn't really follow up on that.
• 22:12
  Cheryl: Bill Was just so much more balanced about it.
• 22:15
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:15
  Cheryl: And so if I could get my emotion, get me out of the way-
• 22:21
  Christie: Right
• 22:21
  Cheryl: and really listen to him, His input was so good.
• 22:25
  Christie: That's so good.
• 22:27
  Christie: Sometimes it, this, it's not our spouse.
• 22:29
  Christie: Sometimes- the spouse can be just as emotionally invested- There you go in the moment.
• 22:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:32
  Cheryl: You know, that's why we always say we want wise people- Yes around us speaking into it-
• 22:37
  Christie: Uh-huh
• 22:37
  Cheryl: to say,"You know, had you thought about this?" You know?
• 22:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:41
  Cheryl: maybe another question would be, what do I hope my child learns from this?
• 22:46
  Christie: Oh, I like that.
• 22:47
  Cheryl: You know?
• 22:48
  Cheryl: Okay, 14-year-old motorcycle, nah, they're not gonna learn about that.
• 22:52
  Cheryl: But a lot of the other if I had asked that question It would've helped me be more balanced-
• 22:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 22:58
  Cheryl: in what I did.
• 22:59
  Cheryl A: I heard this from someone.
• 23:02
  Cheryl A: If I solve this for them, what opportunity are they missing that they won't learn?
• 23:08
  Cheryl A: Mm.
• 23:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:09
  Cheryl: They're going to have to figure out, and there may be burn to it and consequences, but I, I go,"Oh, this is a valuable lesson.
• 23:17
  Cheryl: They need this," and just it doesn't give that black or white answer.
• 23:23
  Christie: Right.
• 23:23
  Cheryl: But these questions would have brought so much wisdom into my making that decision-
• 23:28
  Christie: Yeah
• 23:29
  Cheryl: and then figuring it out.
• 23:30
  Christie: Right.
• 23:31
  Christie: Yeah, I really like that, what do I need my child to learn?
• 23:35
  Christie: What, what, what are they needing to learn?
• 23:37
  Christie: Because I'm thinking of, um, one of my girls in her young adult years, she, she had a need, and my husband offered to take care of that need for her.
• 23:48
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 23:48
  Christie: And she said,"Dad, you can't.
• 23:50
  Christie: I have to learn to take care of myself." Wow.
• 23:52
  Christie: And he said,"You already did," because this is a girl who's responsible with her finances, takes care- Yeah of her own things, and when she was young, she would hear us saying that,"You've gotta learn," you know?
• 24:02
  Christie: Yep.
• 24:02
  Christie: But this was one she had already learned, so he was able to just freely- Wow bless her in that.
• 24:07
  Christie: She didn't need the lesson anymore.
• 24:09
  Christie: So I, I'm thinking- That is great to your question of, you know, what does my child need to learn?
• 24:14
  Christie: Well, if, if it's something that maybe they've already had a hard lesson in this area somewhere else, you could give a little grace on this time and, and help them out.
• 24:22
  Cheryl: Well,, this even goes into their adult lives.
• 24:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:25
  Christie: Right
• 24:25
  Cheryl: Or maybe they've done all the right things, they just need a boost.
• 24:29
  Christie: Right.
• 24:29
  Cheryl: And they need a help.
• 24:30
  Christie: And in that situation, I, I would say that was the need, is she needed to know she's still supported.
• 24:36
  Christie: Wow.
• 24:36
  Christie: She needed to know that there's, there's, you know, grace for times that you just need a little help.
• 24:42
  Cheryl: That it's appropriate.
• 24:44
  Cheryl: It's not overprotection, overstepping- Mm-hmm to come alongside and help someone.
• 24:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:50
  Christie: You know, I'm sitting here thinking while we're talking about this of, you know, back to what I was saying about you're starting to release even when you put that baby in the crib- Yes, yes and leave the room, and, um, all of parenting is just this rehearsal for releasing our kids- Yes and bringing them to adulthood.
• 25:08
  Christie: And-
• 25:09
  Cheryl: Well, and that they're rehearsing towards adulthood.
• 25:12
  Christie: Yes.
• 25:13
  Cheryl: I did not have that mindset...
• 25:15
  Cheryl: I didn't think it like that.
• 25:16
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:16
  Cheryl: I always thought,"I will do it with them and walk alongside them-
• 25:22
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 25:22
  Cheryl: so that they will be fully prepared to suddenly live their adult life."
• 25:26
  Christie: Right, which they can't be-.
• 25:29
  Cheryl: you
• 25:29
  Christie: know, a dress rehearsal is to reveal who doesn't know- Oh their lines and who doesn't know where to stand.
• 25:34
  Christie: And without the dress rehearsals of life, you know, remembering to have your things ready for the, the presentation you have at school prepares you for the work life.
• 25:46
  Christie: And there's times in childhood that are pointing towards something more independent in your adult life.
• 25:53
  Cheryl: Everything is.
• 25:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:54
  Cheryl: It's such a good analogy.
• 25:56
  Cheryl: Have you ever been in a drama production-
• 25:58
  Christie: I
• 25:58
  Cheryl: have been of any kind?
• 25:58
  Cheryl: No.
• 25:59
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 25:59
  Cheryl: So particularly one thing, we really were involved quite a bit, and I, and I have friends in that arena, and they say,"Oh, dress rehearsals are the worst.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: You can never predict success on opening night- Mm-hmm based on a rehearsal." Christie, that's just a really good picture for what we should be doing, that we're in the rehearsal to find out,"Oh, by the way, Christie, you don't know your lines."
• 26:25
  Christie: Right.
• 26:25
  Cheryl: Or,"Oh, that clothing change can't be 15 minutes." Mm-hmm.
• 26:29
  Cheryl: "We've got to get it down to two minutes." And so If I had s- looked at it more like that, rather than,"Oh, this already has to be opening night."
• 26:40
  Christie: Right.
• 26:40
  Cheryl: And I have to be curating this, and then they will have it all together."
• 26:45
  Christie: Yes.
• 26:46
  Christie: Yeah, you know, the funny thing about rehearsal, I was trying to spell it the other day.
• 26:49
  Christie: Oh, It's kind of a tricky word to spell.
• 26:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:51
  Christie: You know those words that you get a mental block on, and realized it's R-E-H-E-A-R, which I was, is where I was messing up.
• 26:59
  Christie: So it says hear in the middle.
• 27:00
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 27:01
  Christie: So I was like, is that what rehearsal means, to rehear it?
• 27:04
  Christie: Like a hear- Yeah.
• 27:05
  Christie: So anyway, I went on a rabbit trail and looked it up.
• 27:07
  Christie: It's actually an agricultural origin- What?
• 27:11
  Christie: of this word, to re-harrow is the original.
• 27:15
  Christie: So, like- Oh to, to rake over land, um, preparing it for- Oh the planting process.
• 27:23
  Christie: Which, I mean, in the context of our- Wow conversation, if you think of you're, you're priming soil for your child's adulthood, it...
• 27:34
  Christie: I don't know, it just, it makes sense to me that in the years of bringing our kids up, we're helping them rehearse.
• 27:42
  Christie: We're going over these things- Wow over and over again to, to create a fertile environment for them to be productive adults.
• 27:51
  Cheryl A: This is so good because what that says is this is not the harvest.
• 27:56
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 27:57
  Cheryl: Their adulthood is the harvest.
• 27:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:59
  Cheryl: We're just raking and weeding and...
• 28:02
  Cheryl: That's a really good word.
• 28:04
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Cheryl: And the thing is, it's the messy rehearsal.
• 28:08
  Christie: Right.
• 28:09
  Cheryl: A good director allows and wants all the mistakes- Mm-hmm to learn For when you release them, if you will-
• 28:17
  Christie: Yes
• 28:18
  Cheryl: into the real production, and the same with a good, farmer agriculturally does all that hard work not for the hard work's sake- Mm-hmm but if they don't do it to the land, preparing the land, they're not gonna get a good harvest in the fall.
• 28:34
  Christie: Right, which takes us back to the motives.
• 28:38
  Christie: Ah, here we go.
• 28:38
  Christie: Our question about motives of, why am I upset about this, or why am I overprotective in this area, or why- Very
• 28:45
  Cheryl: good
• 28:45
  Christie: you know, is it because I feel like this is failing as a parent when my kid makes the wrong choice?
• 28:53
  Christie: Is it, is it that I- Oh feel like I'm, um, not attentive if I'm not overprotective?
• 29:00
  Cheryl: So we're here again at my identity.
• 29:04
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Christie: We really are.
• 29:04
  Cheryl: Am
• 29:04
  Christie: I,
• 29:05
  Cheryl: Am I making this decision about my identity or am I that good director who's saying,"It's okay to fail all over- Right the rehearsal." Uh, but a good director will be all in, involved.
• 29:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:18
  Cheryl: It's not a,"You get out there and fail, I don't care," but we're looking towards the harvest.
• 29:24
  Cheryl: this is really good.
• 29:27
  Cheryl: And maybe, like, a, a question might be, again,'cause it's not about me- Mm.
• 29:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm it's about them, who's my child becoming because of how we're handling this issue?
• 29:41
  Christie: Mm.
• 29:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:42
  Cheryl: Okay?, Who's my child becoming How much can I release them and
• 29:47
  Cheryl A: not overprotect so that they can be rehearsing and practicing learning-
• 29:52
  Christie: Right
• 29:53
  Cheryl: for that adult opening night?
• 29:55
  Cheryl: Not, because opening night sounds like it's final.
• 29:58
  Christie: Right.
• 29:58
  Cheryl: But becoming their own autonomous individual.
• 30:01
  Christie: Yes.
• 30:01
  Cheryl: Does that make sense?
• 30:01
  Christie: It does.
• 30:02
  Christie: It does.
• 30:03
  Christie: I mean, I'm thinking back to my example of, of the young adult daughter that needed a little help.
• 30:08
  Christie: That same father, my husband, was the one that had the insight at 15, 16, to say,"Our children will have part-time jobs." Yeah.
• 30:18
  Christie: "They will learn to manage money." So he actually was thinking about that adult.
• 30:23
  Christie: Well, who is my child becoming- Right when I make this decision?
• 30:26
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 30:26
  Christie: And, you know, that felt a little mean to me at first that he, you know, instilled those hard work values in them, um, produced fruit.
• 30:35
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 30:35
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 30:36
  Cheryl: We have to wrap it up.
• 30:37
  Cheryl: But maybe that would be a, that's not thinking about me, thinking about them, and the word becoming.
• 30:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 30:46
  Cheryl: How will this decision help them to become who they're going to be?
• 30:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Cheryl: And then thinking about that way, that would've been really helpful for me.
• 30:56
  Christie: Yes.
• 30:57
  Cheryl: Just boiling it down to almost just that question.
• 31:00
  Christie: But, still remembering the choice is up to them.
• 31:04
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 31:04
  Christie: That we put all the work in, we cultivate the soil-
• 31:08
  Cheryl: Absolutely
• 31:09
  Christie: but we're not promised the result- No that we'd like to see.
• 31:12
  Cheryl: No.
• 31:13
  Cheryl: Just like that farmer can do all that work- Mm-hmm.
• 31:15
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and a hail storm hits, and they you know- Right they can't curate the perfect harvest.
• 31:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Cheryl: We have to trust, the process-
• 31:25
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 31:25
  Cheryl: and then trust our children, and be willing to walk alongside of them, loving them wisely-
• 31:31
  Christie: Right
• 31:32
  Cheryl: whatever their choices.
• 31:33
  Christie: Yeah.
• 31:33
  Cheryl: Thank you.
• 31:34
  Cheryl: This was a really good conversation.
• 31:35
  Cheryl: Oh, it
• 31:35
  Christie: was good for me.
• 31:36
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 31:37
  Cheryl: Good, good.
• 31:38
  Cheryl: So, hey, parents, Remember, hang in there.
• 31:41
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe tomorrow won't look any different.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: There will still be lunches to pack, rides to make, questions to answer, and moments you'll have to respond to before you've had time to think them through.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: That's parenting.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: But maybe one of those ordinary moments will simply remind you to pause before you respond, to ask,"Who is my child becoming because of how we're getting through today?" Sometimes one good question changes the way we see the moment we're already in.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to continue the conversation or there's a topic you'd love for us to process together, we'd love to hear from you at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.