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Issue 378: Soul Posture · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the nerd Party.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Welcome all you padawans and acolytes to Aggressive Negotiations the
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Star Wars podcast here on the nerd Party network that
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: enjoys plumbing the depths of the Star Wars galaxy, from
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: its deep, creamy core to its crunchy outer layers. I
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: am one of your hosts, John Mills, and joining me,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: of course, is Jedi Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, we have
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: a humdinger of a topic, one that requires delving deep
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: into the secrets of this strange pyramid looking device that
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: we've discovered. It's not a wayfinder, but it's a different
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: type of device, and it seems to be sith in origin.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Are you prepared to unlock the secrets contained herein I
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: think so.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I am trepidacious on whether or not to touch this device.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: It seems like it could be dangerous, but you know,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I'm also drawn to its eerie red glow and power.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like an evil breathalyzer. You're not quite
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: sure what's going to happen when you interact with and
• 1:25
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  Speaker 3: the Jedi Masters on x and then find the Nerd
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  Speaker 3: Party on Instagram and Facebook and at Joint Nerd Party
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: on X. Now the topic for tonight, Matt, I have
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: a feeling we are going to open things up a
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: little bit. But the first point of interest that I
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: really want to look at is a specific power often
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: attributed to the Sith that comes from the Expanded Universe
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: lore and seems to have been accepted over time. Is
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: simply something that could be done, and one could argue
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: in Rise of Skywalker is actually seen on screen to
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: an extent, and that is Sith battle meditation. The Jedi
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: had a version of it too in the EU, but
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: the Sith were really known for it because it was actually,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: I believe, first in the West End Games books for
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Star Wars, the role playing game that they put this
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: idea forward. It was quickly picked up in the EU.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: I just want to start the conversation by getting your
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: thoughts on it, because from my perspective, battle meditation is
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: something that is a little tough for me to accept.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: I know, I know everybody wants to say, whatever you
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: encounter a power that's tough to accept. It're like, oh,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: it's space wizards. I get it, But for some reason
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I struggle with battle meditation. So I want to get
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: your thoughts on it, just to sort of like kick
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: things off. Is battle meditation a bridge too far? Is
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: it something you think makes sense that the Emperor was
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: winning the Battle of Endor with his battle meditation and
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: then once Luke distracted him, was when things go sideways?
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: You know, is this a bridge too far? Or is
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: this something that you just accept as part of the lore?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I mean it is an interesting idea
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: that in some ways, you know, you could be able
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: to bridge minds and then almost like a computer program,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: be able to allow people to work in concert together
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: in a sense that they couldn't do just by themselves, right,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: you know, no matter how no matter how good the
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: top gun flight team is, right, you know, the Blue Angels.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: This basically makes your entire army like the Blue Angels,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: you know. And I think that that is an interesting idea,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: that the Force could allow you to do something of
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: that nature. But and and like you said, this is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: actually something that does seem to be a part of
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: what we get in the Rise of Skywalker, at that
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: end battle where we see the you know, the forces
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of the Empire, the Final Order working in concert together
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to be able to take down this this last resistance,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: you know. And mm hmm, I think it's it is
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: interesting in that sense, and I could see it being
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: able to happen, especially with somebody as strong as Palpatine
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: being able to pull this off.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because you know, in the EU, the way
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: in which you know, the Jedi do this is they
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: do this together in concert. You know that you you
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: they they're not the one. There's not one central person
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: controlling everything. It's it's all of them kind of melding
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: into the Force and then basically becoming a force themselves
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: to be reckoned with and I think that's really interesting,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and I think that actually makes a little bit more sense.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: But I do in some ways like the juxtaposition that
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: you know, for a Sith using battle meditation, it's one
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: person in control, whereas the for the Jedi, it's something
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: where we do it together. And so, yeah, I don't
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: dislike the idea, and I don't discount the idea. I
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: think it's interesting. I wish that it had been kind
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of a thing where we've gotten more of an opportunity
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: to play around with it, you know, and because you
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: know the way it's done, and even just you, I
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: would say, even the way it's it's kind of portrayed
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: in that final film, it's just not something that does
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: seem all that interesting. It just kind of seems like, oh,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: we're putting it there, but we're not really putting a
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: ton of thought into it, you know.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: I Okay, I agree with you. It's an interesting juxtaposition
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: of you know, there's a light side in the dark
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: side version of it. The light side version involves working
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: together and the dark side version involves imposing your will.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: And I think that on a small enough scale, I
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: can see battle meditation quote unquote being something that works
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: like it's not really battle meditation for two or three
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Jedi to open themselves up to the force to coordinate,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: because the force can give you the ability to see
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: things before they happen. Right, three people seeing things before
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: they happen. Together, they can fight better, they can integrate better,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: they can do those sorts of things. And of course
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: the seth they're all about imposing singular will upon another
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: right I have even if somebody is a legendary Sith
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: or something like that, a singular person putting out their
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: will to control thousands of minds for some reason doesn't
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: play with me as well. It seems to me something
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: that like I can accept it more in a close
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: quarters fashion than I can in a giant battle of
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: endoor fashion. And I also would give it room to say, Well,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: if you were to say to me that the evil
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Sith is communicating with the minds of the commanders and
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: just the commanders, the key commanders out there, to give
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: them the ability to coordinate better when they're discussing, when
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: they're deploying their strategies, I see that as more of
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: a for some reason, something that I would I would
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: accept more. But what I want to key on is
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I think that the two sides of battle meditation thing
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: also opens up the door to that that issue that
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: came up with the moral equivalence question of the Jedi
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: and the sith in Eu, of the of the Two Thousands,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: the idea of the unquote gray Jedi that you can
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: use evil if it's to a good end sort of thing,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: which all cars on the table. And I think we've
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: we've shared this before, like and I know I've shared
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: it before. I reject that idea out of hand, you know,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: like that there's no there's no ameliorating torturing somebody with
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: forced lightning if you're and I you know, and I
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: think that the the Clone Wars definitely illustrates how you
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: lose a lot of your nobility and you're good. When
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: they have the three Jedi work together to try to
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: break cad Baine's brain. Yeah, you know, they're very much
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: playing with fire in that moment. There's no good from
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: forcing something upon someone. Ever, But with the two sides
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: of battle meditation, don't you I mean, are we risking
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: that equivalence or is that something where you just see
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: it's it's more of a you know, a mindset difference
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: that of course a Sith, as they get more powerful,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: is always going to be trying to exert their will,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: and of course the Jedi is always going to be
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: more open to what the force is telling them to do.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, well one thing you said really struck
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: a nerve there when you talked about this idea that
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: you know, they would use evil but then they would
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: basically call it good. And I think that that whole
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: philosophy there was not even that it really came down
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: into the idea that every action is neutral. It all
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: came down to intention. Uh, And so we're a force.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Lightning you know, is neutral in that sense, but it's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the intention of why you're using it, you know, And
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: are you giving in to hate, to to trying to
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: destroy somebody? Are you utilizing it in a way that
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: your whole you know, motivation is pure of heart that
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: you're utilizing this tool. So basically the idea is that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a tool, and no tool is evil,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: it's just how it's utilized. And that's kind of the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: argument there, I think. And therefore I do think that
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that kind of you know, it's not invalid a question,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: but I think the It does then raise a serious question. Okay,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is is force light Are these things inherently evil?
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll cut you off right there at that question.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I can think of no legitimately positive reason to choke
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: somebody with the force, right, Luke uses dark side like
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: it's the whole point of the opening of Return of
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: the Jedi is you're not supposed to know whether Luke
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: is going to go good or bad. People have watched
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: it five billion times. They don't understand that question exists. Yeah,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: just like they all think that it's an easy shot. Now, Oh,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: why do they make that death Star or exhaust Port.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: It's like it was literally an impossible shot, but we've
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: seen it so many times of course it's going to work.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: So No, I don't think that there is a good
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: reason to choke somebody with the force. I don't think
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: that there is, unless you're talking about starting somebody's like
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: broken down lawnmower. I don't think there's a good reason
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: to call force lightning. I think there are powers that
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: are just inherently bad in their very nature, because there's
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: only harm that can come from them. Right, I get
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: your point about the tool. I agree with it philosophically
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, you know, a thing in
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: the hands of a good person is not a bad thing,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: and a thing in the hands of a bad person
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: is a bad thing. Yes, But at battle meditation seems
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: a little bit different because again it's like it's just
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: two approaches to the same thing like that that seems
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: like a truly neutral thing because you're trying to coordinate.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: That's the neutral. Well, how you coordinate is the evil?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, because like you said, you know, the intention
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: of the Sith battle meditation would be to impose one's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: will on others, making them do what you want to do,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: whereas the Jedi version is one where we're collaborating together
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: our wills in the force to move in a way
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that allows us to do the very thing we're trying
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: to do, which is to protect those That's why we're
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: at battle, you know that, that's why we're in this
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: this this fight is not because we want to be
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: but because we feel compelled to use the power that
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: we've been given to protect others.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: And that's the antithesis then to the battle meditation there
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: of the Sith. So no, I do think that that
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: then creates a really you know, interesting question. You know,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: we see these uses of power and what is it
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: that you know makes them inherently good or an inherently
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: evil use? And like you said, could there be a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: position or a place where you're choking somebody and and
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that's not kind of an evil act? You know, I
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: maybe we could find a place or argue in some
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: way that there there is you know, you know, you're
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: in a desperate fight and uh, you know it's it's
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: uh Superman snapping Zod's neck kind of question, right, you know, this,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: this evil act is being done to save other people,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you know. So I think that's the only kind of
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: place where I could see U, A a Jedi or
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: somebody in the light side kind of using that type
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: of power, because it's the only way to maybe disrupt
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: an enemy from being able to take somebody out. And
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: that's the only place where I could see that type
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: of thing. Uh. And and yet at the same time
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I think that then a question maybe on top of that,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: is is there cost then to utilizing that type of
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: power because of that type of act, you know, like
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: lightning and electrocuting somebody through the force has to have
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: some sort of impact on you as does you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: choking the life out of somebody. You know, there there
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: there always has to be some kind of cost to
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that type of use of power. I would I would think.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting because the cost, you know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: use of power actually sends me off down another rabbit
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: hole because the whole thing about using the dark Side
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: will degenerate you. Like, that's how sort of how in
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: the comics they first backed their way into the idea
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: that Palpatine was transferring his essence to clones over time
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: because they would consume it. Using the dark Side would
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: consume his body and he would transfer his spirit to
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: different stuff. So just you saying that really sort of
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: that that's a rabbit hole that goes down. But I
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: just I mean, yeah, like I really can't. There are
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: just certain things because you know, let's take the theoretical situation.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: We're like, oh, well, you know you'll use force, chocus,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: it's the only way to stop somebody. Well, if it's
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: up to that, can't you just use the force to
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: like levitate them up and make them stop without hurting
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: them force push them if you will. So it's you know, yeah,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: I mean just in terms of the personal cost, yes,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: but also just that you know, obviously I'm just really
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: I'm just really at that place where to bring it back, Yeah,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: the cost. But then if there's cost, then aren't certain
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: powers like battle meditations stretched out across an entire starfleet?
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Isn't that a bit much? Like you could then back
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: into it because I know that Sith battle meditation, if
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: you go back to the Darth Bane trilogy, was a
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: number of Sith exerting their will across a number of people.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: So like the Jedi coordinating with each other, the Syth
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: coordinating with each other pre rule of two. You know
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: that gets me across that bridge, I guess. But you know,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: in terms of that cost, in terms of just that
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: that idea of cost, you you don't think battle meditation
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: is a bridge too far? Are there any Are there
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: any powers you've read or seen for Sith in the
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Jedi that you consider too far or like you read
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: that they did something or you see that they did
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: something and you're like, Okay, really that's that's a bit much.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because uh, just the fact that we're kind
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of even just discussing a lot of things from that
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that final film. You know, there's that whole idea of
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: being able to heal somebody that we had seen many
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: many times in the EU, right, and you know, force
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: healing is a big part of the video games too, right,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: And so that wasn't a shocker. I think the most
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: interesting thing about that is is that something we never
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: saw anywhere else though in an actual canon on screen,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that's not a thing we had seen. And so that's
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: a place where I almost feel like it would have
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: been nice to have a little bit more context too,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: because you know, on the other side, we have seen
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: healing done in Cannon, and that was by the witches
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: of Datamir, and that was ambiguous as to whether it
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: was a good thing or a bad thing, right. You know,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: they actually help clear the mind of the madness from
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Darth Maul. And so that's you know, when we talk
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: about like dark side powers and their use in that sense,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you know, is that a good or bad thing? That
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you know, they are able to take away madness from
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Darth Maul, to clear his mind. That seems in some
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: ways to be a humane and almost loving act, right,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And yet of course then what he does with that
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: ability that he's been given of of clarity is on him,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: you know, And so I think as we're talking, you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: and you think about something like that, the act that
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: they do for Darth Maul is not bad. But then
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: what Darth Mall then does with those powers that he's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: been given in the sense of being clear, yeah, we
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: would consider to be absolutely not good.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: So going clear like a scientologist, we're going to get. Yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Probably Tom Cruise is going for you right now. Oh no,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: I love his movie though. But what you're talking about
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: with intent, their intent with clearing the madness quote unquote
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: from Mall. Their intention is to have him become an
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: agent of chaos, an X factor that goes throughout the
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: galaxy to his own ends and also to the detriment
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: of others that they wish to confound. In a sense,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: so if intent plays a role in it, then what
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: they're doing is not good because their intent is not
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: just to benefit Mall. It's too quote unquote benefit Mall,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: but to their own ends. So it's still a selfish act.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: And it would also beg the question that if we're
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: going to approach it from there's always a light side,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: dark side version of things, because I think even in EU,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: there was a light side version of force lightning, and
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: it's like on screen, no, it's you know, I'll never
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: forget the way they put it in the I think
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: it was the Star Wars Insider at the time where
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: they had a picture of Dooku and it said bad
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Jedi throw and then it had Yoda, good Jedi catch Right,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Yoda never fires force lightning. He can take it, he
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: can absorb it, and he can deflect it, but he
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: never generates it. But coming back to the madness thing,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: if the witches of Dathamir who used Sith sorcery or
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: i'm sorry, dark side sorcery to do their stuff, are
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: able to restore sanity at the very least Tamaul, wouldn't
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: it follow that there should be a Jedi version of
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: purging the darkness from someone, of healing their heart as
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: it were, so that they would find a way back
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: to good. And in that case, wouldn't that I mean,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: let's wrap up with this question. If such a power existed,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: wouldn't it be a bad thing in the sense that
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: it robs the individual choice to redeem oneself? Basically, like
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: a Jedi could go and be like, oh, Darth Vader,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: you're a bad person. Let me work some magic on you,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: and then you're gonna wake up and be nice one day.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: That's exerting your will like that takes away the agency
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: of the person to redeem themselves. Would that redemption still
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: be valid as it were? So I guess that's a
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: number of questions all gold into one.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: So I think one of the things that we do
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: see that is quite interesting about Jedi healing is, you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: there are those episodes in the Yoda arc where there
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: clearly is Jedi healing that happened, right, and that healing
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: is seen with what's going on with Yoda, and so
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: there it is very clear that the Jedi take healing
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: very seriously. But I think the idea of removing the
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: darkness from something is different, and I think that's the
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: thing that we kind of see. You know, even with
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the Witches of dathamir right, they do not clear out
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: anything from Maul in the sense of changing his mind
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: or bringing him redemption. What they do is they clear
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the madness that's there. They bring order to the chaos
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of his mind that has been driven there by his
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: hate and the dark side, which I find to be
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: incredibly interesting because it really does bring you to kind
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: of the psychology of the character. And even though he
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: is given order again, in his mind, we see that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Darth Maul never does find redemption, never is able to change, right,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: He literally can't change even to the end. And there
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: is a moment, you know, I think in Twin Suns,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: you know, after that fight with Obi Wan as he's dying,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that he finds some sort of peace in his enemy's arms.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: But it's only at that last second of life. And
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: so no, I don't think that the Jedi, even with
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: all of their powers of healing, could actually create in
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: somebody redemption or anything like that. You know, I think
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Star Wars is very clear that it's our actions that
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: define us.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: And.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Therefore how we use the force, if you're a Jedi
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: or a Sith, comes down to your desires and whether
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: or not your desires are only for yourself or for
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: betterment of others, you know, And therefore, in some ways
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: it does come down to intention. But it's the same time,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: it's not just intention, but it's it's it's also the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: whole dichotomy between selfishness and selflessness, which is of which
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: is not just about intention, but it's it's also about
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: an entire lifestyle, right. You know, if you live your
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: life as a more selfless person, there's a whole lifestyle
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: that you you are living that and choices that you're
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: making every single day and in many many moments throughout
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the day which create a character which it builds to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: being less selfish and more selfless at the same time,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the same is true for those that are selfish, right,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And so it what the that intentionality then in those
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: actions builds is an actual character that creates a soul
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: posture that I think leads to the corruption we see
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: in the force. And it really it all comes down
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: to I think that idea of like bleeding a lightsaber
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: crystal to make it sith Right, you're in completely imposing
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: your will on the kyber crystal to create what you
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: want instead of being in concert and in tune with
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the crystal to create the lightsaber that brings out the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: color of its choice.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Right that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And so I think in even that we can kind
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: of see where, you know, all of this is actually
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: wrapped up together. So intentionality is I'm part of it,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: but it's not the whole part. And I think that's
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: where that ideology kind of misses that. It's so much
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: more than just intention. Really, it does come down to
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the true soul posture of these characters and where they
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: go from start to finish.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I think you just decided the title of this episode
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: soul posture like that, And it's a great band name,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: and it's going to be the band name of our
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Jedi band that we'll depose Si Snoodles and the Max
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Rebo Band from number one. Finally, but if anybody wants
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: to discuss these topics further with you, Matt, or become
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: a producer on the album that we're going to release,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: let them know where they can find you online.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Well, of course you can find me all over social
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: media under the name Matt rushing Zer two. Here on
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: the network, you'll find me with a completed show called
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: owl Post did that with Dray Kaufman. Every single chapter
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: of the Harry Potter series is covered in that show,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: so hope you'll check that out. All run the TFN network,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: you'll find me with a bunch of different shows, a
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: lot of Star Trek Talk plus the six of two Club,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: where we'll talk about all of the fandoms we love,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: not just one. And of course John is a frequent
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: guest over there, so hope you'll check that out. In fact,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: John will be over there very soon as we're going
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: to be covering a fun franchise known as DC and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: so check that out. And that's where you can find me.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: But John, if you know people are wanting to understand
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: why you think that Sith Lightning is your right? Where
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: can people find you?
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's my right, it's my left, it's my reason
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: for being. You can find me online as Kessel Chunky
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: k E s s E l j U n k
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: i E. And you can find me right here on
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: the network on another show called house Lights, where we
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: look at the directors of films and groundbreaking material. That is,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: but the way we approach it is actually pretty fun,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: where we select pieces of people's filmographies and look at
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: them through time, always willing to accept recommendations for filmmakers
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: to cover. Over there. So Matt, the Jedi Recording studio
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: uh just opened up, So let's go record our album.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: I think it's time to close these negotiations.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Negotiations are closed.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: And now I regret the joke.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Join the revolution, Join the nerd Party,