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The Inner World of the Therapist with Stefanie Klein, LCSW · The Trauma Therapist

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  Speaker 1: Trauma Theverist podcast Plus listeners can listen to episodes early
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  Speaker 1: and ad free right now. Become a Plus listener by
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  Speaker 1: going to Apple Podcasts, searching for the Trauma Theverist podcast
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  Speaker 1: and signing up today. Welcome to the Trauma Nevers podcast,
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  Speaker 1: a show about the incredible people dedicated to helping those
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  Speaker 1: who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson and my
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  Speaker 1: mission is to raise awareness of trauma and to inspire
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  Speaker 1: each of us to help those around us.
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  Speaker 2: You ready, You're ready?
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  Speaker 1: All right, here we go. So five four, three, two
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  Speaker 1: and one, our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very
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  Speaker 1: excited to have as make us today. Stephanie Klein, Stephanie.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Hi guy, Thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: You are welcome. So. Stephanie is a licensed clinical social worker,
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  Speaker 1: somatic experiencing practitioner, and NORM master therapist that's NAARM neuroeffective
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  Speaker 1: Relational Model therapist. She's assistant Training director and faculty at
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  Speaker 1: faculty for the Complex Trauma Training Center and is very
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  Speaker 1: passionate about the need for helping professionals to be trauma
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  Speaker 1: informed and for mental health providers to be trained in
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  Speaker 1: effective approaches for working with complex trauma. Stephanie's found norm
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  Speaker 1: to be a game changing approach working with developmental and
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  Speaker 1: complex trauma, and she's devoted the last decade of her
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  Speaker 1: career to mentoring and training psychotherapists in the model. Stephanie, welcome,
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  Speaker 1: thank you. So before we get going, share with the
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  Speaker 1: listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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  Speaker 2: Not too far from where I'm from originally.
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  Speaker 3: I was born in San Mateo, California, so the Bay Area,
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  Speaker 3: and I'm still in California.
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  Speaker 2: I'm in Los Angeles.
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  Speaker 3: I became a Southern California in when I went to
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  Speaker 3: college and stayed down here.
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  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, all right, So we are going to talk
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  Speaker 1: about what you have going on at the faculty of
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  Speaker 1: the Complex Trauma Training Center, your new program. But I
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  Speaker 1: want to find out about you. Okay, I'm curious about
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  Speaker 1: I mean, this is where the inspiration is, and it
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  Speaker 1: really is. So let's start out. How did you get
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  Speaker 1: involved in this profession, on this journey. When did it
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  Speaker 1: start for you? How did it start for you?
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  Speaker 3: Well, probably, like a lot of therapists, I think it
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  Speaker 3: started in childhood, being a parentified child and you know,
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  Speaker 3: adapting to my circumstances by learning how to really attune
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  Speaker 3: to other people. I wanted to be a therapist since
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  Speaker 3: I had my own therapy as a child. So I'm
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  Speaker 3: one of those people who like at twelve was after
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  Speaker 3: two years of therapy, was like, I'm going to be
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  Speaker 3: a therapist when I grew up, and I never changed
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  Speaker 3: my mind. Wow, it's kind of wild to think about,
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  Speaker 3: but I mean, so many at what I found supporting
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  Speaker 3: other therapists is so many of us had early experiences
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  Speaker 3: where we had to really disconnect from ourselves and attune
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  Speaker 3: to others.
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  Speaker 2: And I became like a superpower.
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  Speaker 3: And so a lot of us of course felt really
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  Speaker 3: good in fields like helping professions, and you know, for
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  Speaker 3: better or for worse, that's the journey for a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Of us now. As always, I mean, you know, you
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  Speaker 1: share what you're comfortable sharing, and if you don't feel
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  Speaker 1: like responding, just say so. But so, to what degree
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  Speaker 1: was your did you have a difficult challenging? To what
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  Speaker 1: degree was a childhood difficult and challenging? And how did
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  Speaker 1: you how did you manage how did you remove?
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting when you think about somebody like
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  Speaker 3: me from the lens of like the Aces study and
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  Speaker 3: how many points I would have on that, Probably not
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  Speaker 3: very many. My story is the story of a lot
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  Speaker 3: of people with developmental and complex traumats about chronic misattainment.
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  Speaker 2: And early birth.
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  Speaker 3: Trauma, other things in my early life that really created
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  Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of dysregulation internally.
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  Speaker 2: And I was a very symptomatic child. So I looked
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  Speaker 2: like I had a.
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  Speaker 3: Relatively stable home, but I was intensely symptomatic, to the
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  Speaker 3: point where I asked for therapy at the age of ten.
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  Speaker 2: I was like, I wowed help.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And luckily I had been exposed to therapy. My
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  Speaker 3: mother was you know, went to analysis and was.
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  Speaker 2: Open about it.
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  Speaker 3: So that's how I even knew it existed and I
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  Speaker 3: asked for help. I was really suffering through most of
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  Speaker 3: my childhood with debilitating anxiety, debilitating separation anxiety, a metaphobia.
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  Speaker 3: I was just a metaphobia. It's it's fear of vomiting.
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  Speaker 3: It's really intense.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like my whole spiritual my whole relationship with God
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  Speaker 3: really started with me praying every night to not throw up.
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  Speaker 3: And I mean nobody knew what any of these things
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  Speaker 3: were then. There were no things for it. I was
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  Speaker 3: just a weird kid who couldn't hang. And you know
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  Speaker 3: again now I understand that it was all from very
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  Speaker 3: very early shock trauma, significant birth trauma as well as
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  Speaker 3: a lot of chronic misachievement, and therapy was just a
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  Speaker 3: life saver for me.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, And what type of therapy was it?
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  Speaker 2: It was like full on like f Freudian Like.
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  Speaker 3: I had this big male psychiatrist who smoked, literally smoked
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  Speaker 3: a pipe the whole time we were in therapy together,
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  Speaker 3: like packed the pipe.
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  Speaker 2: To this day, I love the smell of pipes.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, because I associated with him, you know, play therapy,
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  Speaker 3: dream analysis like it was the full like old psychodynamic,
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  Speaker 3: old school therapy.
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  Speaker 2: Very different than what I do now, but.
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  Speaker 3: Not so different from what I did, like the first
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  Speaker 3: deck of my career before I moved into more somatically
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  Speaker 3: oriented models.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's kind of jump to there. So you,
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  Speaker 1: as you said, you never veered from this desire need
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  Speaker 1: calling to become a therapist to go through school. You're
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  Speaker 1: on board when you were in school, what light bulbs
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  Speaker 1: were going on for you in terms of this is
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  Speaker 1: where I want to go, this is what I want
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  Speaker 1: to do, These are the people I want to work
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  Speaker 1: with et cetera.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, at that point, I just knew that I wanted
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  Speaker 3: to do psychotherapy. I was very interested in one on
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  Speaker 3: one psychotherapy, and I knew I wanted to work with adults.
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  Speaker 3: I was on the direct mental health track working with adults.
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  Speaker 3: But I really just thought of myself as an eclectic,
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  Speaker 3: psychodynamic oriented kind of person. I was, you know, my
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  Speaker 3: approach was what I had I've been exposed to, which
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  Speaker 3: was very interpretive. Every you know, I was sharing my
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  Speaker 3: experiences with a therapist to a therapist who is then
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  Speaker 3: like interpreting and making meaning, which helped me make meaning,
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  Speaker 3: which helped me heal. And that's very very different than
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  Speaker 3: the NARMA approach and very very different than the support
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  Speaker 3: that I provide therapists now having you know, gone on
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  Speaker 3: a journey after that towards more somatic based models that
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  Speaker 3: aren't interpretive.
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  Speaker 1: Well, so let's talk a little bit about that journey.
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  Speaker 1: How did that journey begin?
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  Speaker 3: It started with you know, about ten years in my
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  Speaker 3: really asking myself what lights me up. I had been
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  Speaker 3: with a group private practice. They had said this is
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  Speaker 3: what we do here. It was a lot of addiction
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  Speaker 3: oriented work. So I became very schooled in addiction, sex addiction,
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  Speaker 3: you know, substance abuse, process addictions. But I was like, well,
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  Speaker 3: this isn't exactly my path. And really I figured out
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  Speaker 3: that my passion was anxiety and trauma because that's the
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  Speaker 3: area I knew the most. And I you know, went
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  Speaker 3: to a CEU because it was at a cool place
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  Speaker 3: with good food.
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  Speaker 2: And it just happened to be Peter Levine.
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  Speaker 3: Peter Levine speaking about somatic experiencing, and this was my
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  Speaker 3: first exposure to anything really sematic, and I was like,
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  Speaker 3: oh my god, this is it. And I immediately signed
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  Speaker 3: up for the three year training.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, okay very I was like.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, this is what I want to do.
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  Speaker 3: And so that was my first move. And as I
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  Speaker 3: and and from there, I realized that my clients, the
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  Speaker 3: people that I worked with and I did a lot
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  Speaker 3: of long term therapy, weren't really coming in with shock trauma.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, they've had chock traumas, but really what they
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  Speaker 3: were coming in with was these long standing, pervasive, sort
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  Speaker 3: of developmental traumas that were still having impact on their
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  Speaker 3: life in the here and now, and complex trauma. And
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  Speaker 3: so that led me to seek consultation with doctor Lawrence
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  Speaker 3: Heller who created an ARM and that was the next
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  Speaker 3: big turn in my career and I was like, no,
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  Speaker 3: this is it. I've never looked back and I'm you know,
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  Speaker 3: this is this is the going to be the model
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  Speaker 3: that I work in for the rest of my life.
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  Speaker 2: I'm entirely confident.
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  Speaker 1: So a couple of things here. Can you define shock
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  Speaker 1: trauma for our listeners?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, shock trauma would be what we would look at
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  Speaker 3: as event trauma, and it's what leads to the diagnosis
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  Speaker 3: of PTSD.
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  Speaker 2: I know I'm telling you and you know this, but
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  Speaker 2: some mo our.
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  Speaker 1: Listeners don't contextualizing everything. I appreciate that yet.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but so you know, something that is out of
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  Speaker 3: the ordinary and it has a very discreet beginning and
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  Speaker 3: end is kind of what we look like look at
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  Speaker 3: as a shock trauma.
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  Speaker 2: And the way we move through that has to do with.
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  Speaker 3: Our response is to fear, and we're really working with
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  Speaker 3: the neurobiology of fear when we're healing a shock trauma.
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  Speaker 3: When we're working with developmental and complex trauma, we're working
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  Speaker 3: with a different neurobiological process. We're really working with the
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  Speaker 3: neurobiology of shame. Because these these these complex trauma, developmental trauma,
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  Speaker 3: it's relational trauma, and it's it's it's.
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  Speaker 2: Not there's no beginning or end.
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  Speaker 3: It isn't sudden. It's usually just what this is, what
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  Speaker 3: is This is the air I breathe. This is what
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  Speaker 3: I know as life, and we're adapting to that. And
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  Speaker 3: the way we adapt to that is through a process
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  Speaker 3: of disconnecting from ourselves and shutting ourselves down through different
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  Speaker 3: strategies related to shame. So we we we heal and
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  Speaker 3: work with shock trauma and developmental trauma differently. And NARM
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  Speaker 3: was was created to work with the particular symptoms that
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  Speaker 3: come out of developmental and complex trauma.
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  Speaker 1: So when you attended that conference of doctor Heller's things, well, well.
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  Speaker 3: I attended Peter Levine's talk and that led me to
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  Speaker 3: doctor Heller, who at the time was a Somatic Experiencing
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  Speaker 3: faculty member. But as I was doing consultation with doctor Heller,
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  Speaker 3: I kept bringing in clients and he kept saying, well,
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  Speaker 3: this isn't really where I would use s E. This,
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  Speaker 3: this is what I'm creating right now that I think
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  Speaker 3: speaks better to this. And he was in the process
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  Speaker 3: of writing his first book on NARM and then I
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  Speaker 3: just he was my mentor for years and years and
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  Speaker 3: years as I learned this.
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  Speaker 1: Model under So again, what was it about NORM that
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  Speaker 1: that spoke to you, that sound like you? What's identified with?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's such a good question.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it was really the way that it worked.
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  Speaker 3: In the present moment with how I was relating to
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  Speaker 3: myself in my circumstances. It's this concept of agency in
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  Speaker 3: NORM the way we look at agency, which is how
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  Speaker 3: we're actively relating to something in the present moment.
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  Speaker 1: Give us an example, if.
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  Speaker 3: You will, Well, I might be telling a story about
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  Speaker 3: something that happened to me in my past. But as
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  Speaker 3: I'm telling that story, the curiosity from the NARM perspective
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  Speaker 3: would be what's happening right now as you're sharing this
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  Speaker 3: information with me, you know, what's happening in this moment,
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  Speaker 3: inviting me into a top down, bottom up process of
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  Speaker 3: reflecting on like what are my felt senses, what's happening
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  Speaker 3: in my nervous system, what's my somatic experience? At the
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  Speaker 3: same time as like what am I telling myself right now?
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  Speaker 3: Like how what's the story that I'm telling myself? How
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  Speaker 3: do I feel towards myself? Around this, am I having
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  Speaker 3: some passion? Am myself accepting?
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  Speaker 2: Around this?
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  Speaker 3: Am I telling myself that I'm not enough, that I'm horrible? Like,
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  Speaker 3: there are active ways that we are relating to ourselves
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  Speaker 3: in the present moment that are driving our symptoms. So
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  Speaker 3: when we're working with complex trauma, that's what we're working with.
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  Speaker 3: How we carried forward into our adult lives. These brilliant
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  Speaker 3: strategies of shutting ourselves down that helped us survive early life,
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  Speaker 3: but are now driving all of these symptoms. That's very
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  Speaker 3: different than working with shock trauma, which is really working
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  Speaker 3: with the neurobiology of fear, working with the fight, flight
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  Speaker 3: and freeze responses that are incomplete when we've been in
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  Speaker 3: mortal threat. So just they're very different and complementary ways
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  Speaker 3: of working. Ultimately, it's beautiful to be trained in a
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  Speaker 3: complex trauma approach and a shock trauma approach.
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  Speaker 1: As you were describing that and relating that all those
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  Speaker 1: questions that you were asking rhetorically, we're such good questions
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  Speaker 1: that a lot of us don't really think about and
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  Speaker 1: we're not aware of in the moment. They're just as
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  Speaker 1: you said, like the air we breathe, right, This is
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  Speaker 1: how I operate.
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  Speaker 3: And we mistake a lot of that for personality and identity.
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  Speaker 2: This is just who I am. I just always feel
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  Speaker 2: like this, you know, when in fact that's not really
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  Speaker 2: the case.
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  Speaker 3: And so I mean, this really leads me to is
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  Speaker 3: it okay if I take a leap here?
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  Speaker 1: Yes? Please leap?
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  Speaker 3: Really this really leads me to this program that we're
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  Speaker 3: developing at the Complex Trauma Training Center, because it's really
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  Speaker 3: a program that's not about teaching a model, that's really
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  Speaker 3: about exploring our inner world, in the inner space and
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  Speaker 3: all the things that we either aren't even aware are
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  Speaker 3: going on for ourselves and our role as therapists and
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  Speaker 3: how we react to our clients, or we are aware
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  Speaker 3: that we're going that they're going on, but we're reacting
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  Speaker 3: to them in particular ways that might not be supporting
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  Speaker 3: the therapeutic effectiveness and also might not be supporting our
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  Speaker 3: ease and vitality in the role. So we created this
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  Speaker 3: program to be more about inside out learning, about really
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  Speaker 3: exploring the inner development of the therapist and supporting them
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  Speaker 3: to have more awareness of three levels of experience, the
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  Speaker 3: personal level of experience, the interpersonal level of experience, and
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  Speaker 3: then the larger trans personal level of experience, like how
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  Speaker 3: we're connected to something larger than ourselves, and we're really
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  Speaker 3: excited about like creating this little niche for therapists to
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  Speaker 3: come do that inner work that can really support their,
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  Speaker 3: like I said, their effectiveness. But also it's a hard
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  Speaker 3: job and it's a lonely job, and depending on how
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  Speaker 3: we're relating to it, there's a ton of burnout in
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  Speaker 3: the job, and so we want to support therapists to
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  Speaker 3: potentially have a different and more easeful experience as well.
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  Speaker 1: So this program does it have a title.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, it's called space. It's called SPACE, and it's an acronym.
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  Speaker 3: It stands for Supporting, Presence, Awareness, Connection, and Embodiment. But
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  Speaker 3: the idea of SPACE came out of like sort of,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of brilliant quotes about space,
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  Speaker 3: but it came out of the idea that there's an
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  Speaker 3: inner spaciousness that if we're not connected to, we're missing
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  Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of information and opportunity in this relational
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  Speaker 3: work of healing complex trauma. And so you know, it's
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  Speaker 3: just I kind of want to share a quote.
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to share a quote really quick.
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  Speaker 3: It's a Jonathan Shedler quote doctor Jonathan Shedler. The goal
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  Speaker 3: is to insert spaces for reflection where they have not
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  Speaker 3: previously existed, and thereby create opportunities to know ourselves more fully,
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  Speaker 3: connect with others more deeply, and live life more congruently.
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  Speaker 3: In the unrecognized spaces. Live freedom, freedom from repeating the
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  Speaker 3: same painful, self defeating patterns, freedom to do things differently,
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  Speaker 3: freedom to become better versions of ourselves. And we're holding
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  Speaker 3: this as freedom to do our jobs better. So that's
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  Speaker 3: kind of how we're looking at space.
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  Speaker 1: And this program is for you. You've mentioned therapists, therapists
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  Speaker 1: of all kind.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to be trained in the NARM model.
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  Speaker 3: You can be trained in any model. You can be
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  Speaker 3: trained in no models. You know, it's really and it's
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  Speaker 3: we call it inside out learning because we're not teaching skills,
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  Speaker 3: we're not teaching interventions. We're facilitating experiences to help people
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  Speaker 3: connect more deeply and learn from and relate.
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  Speaker 2: To the inner space that you know.
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  Speaker 3: Can provide information, nourishment, and deeper connection.
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  Speaker 1: In the role.
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  Speaker 3: Because we're healing relational trauma, the relationship between the therapist
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  Speaker 3: and the client is the most important intervention and if
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  Speaker 3: we're not in relationship with ourselves, then we can't really
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  Speaker 3: be in that intersubjective process with the client, you know,
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  Speaker 3: not in the way that it's going to be most healing.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, love it, love it, And it's something I talk
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  Speaker 1: about on this podcast a lot because it was certainly
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  Speaker 1: a big learning experience for me. You know, when I
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  Speaker 1: first started this several years ago, I was like, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: you know, let me get on these bring on these
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  Speaker 1: master trauma therapists to find out what they do and
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  Speaker 1: how they do the work, which is great, but slowly, slowly, slowly,
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  Speaker 1: what I found out was that more and more of
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  Speaker 1: these clinicians, we're talking about the importance of them being themselves,
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  Speaker 1: and actually there were many situations where they weren't allowing
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  Speaker 1: themselves to be vulnerable appropriately so and with boundaries of course,
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  Speaker 1: and how that ruptured the therapeutic relationship. And it really
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  Speaker 1: got me thinking about well, my own process and how
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I was kind of constricted around that and what I
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  Speaker 1: needed to do. And yet what you're talking about, I
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  Speaker 1: think is so powerful and empowering, and it's not easy.
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  Speaker 1: It's not easy talk to us about why many of us,
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  Speaker 1: not all of us but certainly a lot of us
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  Speaker 1: we can help or trying to help the person sitting
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  Speaker 1: in front of us. But wait a minute, you're asking
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  Speaker 1: me to look at myself. Whoa yeah, hang on, yeah.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I left.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: You wrote about that on the homepage of of your podcast.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: How a lot of people when they talk about their
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: biggest mistakes, it's related to disconnecting from their authenticity in
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: the service of a lot of times, it's what we call,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: you know, what they call in the literature rewarding object,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: like wanting to be a rewarding object, wanting to make
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: sure someone's not mad at you, wanting to make sure
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: that they're satisfied when they walk out the door. And
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: all of that is coming from strategies inside of us
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: that we developed as children to you know, protect our
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: well being and to be able to make it work
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: with our parents and survive whatever environmental failures we were
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: trying to survive. So if therapists aren't looking inside as
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: a primary place to be building capacity, they're missing the
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: most important thing. And you know, so many of us
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: are taught like it's this model, it's this approach, it's
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: this you know, it's and from our perspective. We're not
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: there to do something to a client. We're there to
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: be with someone on their journey, and you know that
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: means being in a lot of uncertainty.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: That means being really curious.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: And it's not just curiosity about the client, it's curiosity
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: about ourselves. What's coming up inside of me right now?
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: How is that going to inform the next question I ask?
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Or what direction I want to go? And what happens
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: when I leave that out or it's too scary for
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: me to look at? Is I'm going to get into
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: a mode where I'm not really in relationship in the
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: present moment, I'm protecting myself from something I'm projecting and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: it doesn't work as well and healing.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: And of course that respective or that lens through which
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you're looking at is impacting what you're doing, what you're
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: not doing the intervention is you're choosing to implement in
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the moment. Yeah, it's awesome And to me, what you're
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: talking about is so exciting because it validates the individuality
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of the person of the therapist and so many people
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: who've been traumatized, who've experienced complex trauma, that belief in themselves,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that trust in themselves has been ripped away. And what
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you're talking about here is almost allowing the therapists to
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: empower themselves to believe themselves. And that feeds off of
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the person sitting in front of you. You know, we
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: feel that that is so exciting. Let's talk about and
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: this is very exciting to me because this is right
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: up my I love this stuff. Let's talk a little
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: bit about some of the ways this program works. Just
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: give us a couple things. We don't have the time
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: about everything, but let's it's some of those things.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I'll do a quick version.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: We're going to have six two day classes in the
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: program and each is going to have a different theme
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that's going to be really supporting people to deepen more
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: and more into these different levels of experience, the personal,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: the relational or interpersonal, and the trans personal. And we're
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: going to do that again, not through teaching skills or topics,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: but through inviting exploration. And so it's all going to
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: be experiential learning and tryads and die ads where we're introducing.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Prompts and themes.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: We're going to be doing guided explorations where we're taking
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: people through a deepening process where they might be thinking
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: about a client and what is evoked for them that's complicated,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: and we're supporting them to get to know that better
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: and be more in relationship with that and then start
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: to see through that process, how connecting to whether it's
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: anger or fear or grief or helplessness, whatever gets stirred
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: up for them with a client, how connecting to it
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: actually shifts their relationship to that client and also gives
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: them more options and more opportunities in terms of how
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: they might want to engage.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: It was just going to be online in person, going to.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Be entirely online, so people can join. It's very accessible.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: People can join from anywhere in the world. Really, We
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: often in our trainings have people from all over the world.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And we'll be meeting.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Fridays and Saturdays every other month starting in February.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for how long? How long is it go?
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: The date, the day it's I think it's eight to
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: three thirty. For two days, we'll take a lunch break
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: and we're going to have a couple of Q and
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: as if people are interested and want to show up
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: for a Q and A and ask some questions about
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: the program. And you can find all of this on
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: the Complex Trauma Training website Complex Trauma Training dot com.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, and you have that linked up here at the
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: show notes page at the Trauma therevis podcast dot com.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And how many months does it go for?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: So it'll be through the entire year, but every other month,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: so we'll go February April. I can't do the rest
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: really quickly, of my Yeah, so it's spread out so
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: people have some time to integrate. We're also going to
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: you know, build in some voluntary contact in small groups
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: in between classes so that people have some continuity as
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: they're integrating and kind of bringing some of what they're
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: recognizing into their work.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. So one thing as we kind of uh
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: wind out here, what was the impetus for you folks
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: starting this program.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, between the three faculty members at the Complex Trauma
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Training Center, we have about one hundred years of clinical
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: practice between us and so many hours of consultation, and
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: it's just what we notice over and over and over
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: again when people say they're stuck, when people are struggling,
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: when people bring in their most difficult clients to consults,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: when we support them to connect to what's authentically going
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: on inside of Waila they're unstuck, they have clarity. They
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: often feel more compassion, more acceptance for even the most
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: challenging clients, more compassion for themselves. We really focus in
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: consultation on the inner world of the therapist and the
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: rest happens organically. So it's partly just what we've learned
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: from how we support therapists, and it's partly what our
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: community has asked us to do more of and welcome people,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: you know, from outside of arm in, which is just
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: we want to go deeper into our own experience. We
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: want to bring ourselves into the work again, like you said,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: ethically with proper bound course, but including ourselves in this
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: inter subjective work of healing relational trauma.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: So once again, give us that website if you will,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: as we kind of it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Is www dot Complex Trauma Trainingcenter dot com.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Okay again, we'll have that link up here at the
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: show notes page. At the trauma there.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Is podcast protgram is space and they can look up
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: everything about it on that website.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, Stephanie, love it, I love you, Thank you. Welcome back. Anytime,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: great Brad.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Can come back, We can come back together, we can
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: come back to our other faculty member such a fun conversation.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: You're welcome. I love what you guys are doing. We'll
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: be in touch to take care.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, thanks guy.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. Many common