Latest / Teachers Talk Radio / The phone call home - Problem or Partnership?: The Late Show with Sarah Wilkinson Crute

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The phone call home - Problem or Partnership?: The Late Show with Sarah Wilkinson Crute · Teachers Talk Radio

• 0:00
  Welcome to Teachers Talk Radio. Thank you for listening.
• 0:09
  Thanks for downloading this episode from Teachers Talk Radio.
• 0:12
  You can find the full schedule and listen back to all our shows at ttradio.org.
• 0:18
  Enjoy the podcast.
• 0:21
  Good evening and welcome to the show.
• 0:24
  Tonight we're going to be talking about one of the most powerful and sometimes most dreaded tools in education,
• 0:29
  the phone call home.
• 0:31
  For some staff in a moment of tension, it can be a difficult conversation and a behaviour to address or a problem to solve.
• 0:40
  But what if we've been thinking about it the wrong way?
• 0:45
  Tonight I'm going to be joined with a seasoned Head of Year and we are going to unpick this exact topic.
• 0:53
  What if the phone call home isn't just about reporting what's gone wrong,
• 0:57
  but about building something stronger, a relationship, a partnership, a shared understanding between the school and home.
• 1:05
  Behind every behaviour we are told there is a story and behind every student there is definitely a family
• 1:12
  who more often than not wants the very best for their child, just like we do.
• 1:18
  So tonight we're asking, can schools picking up the phone to deliver bad news,
• 1:23
  are they doing that or are they building trust?
• 1:27
  Because sometimes as a teacher, it's a bit nerve wracking picking up that phone,
• 1:32
  especially if somebody's done something wrong and we then have to speak to the parent about a behaviour incident.
• 1:39
  So I'm going to introduce my guest in a moment.
• 1:43
  Ready to make an impact beyond the classroom.
• 1:46
  AQA is looking for teachers like you to become examiners this summer.
• 1:50
  You'll build your CPD, strengthen your understanding of the mark scheme and gain fresh insights to enhance your teaching.
• 1:57
  It's flexible, paid work that fits around your commitments,
• 2:01
  with full training from our experts and ongoing support from an experienced team leader.
• 2:06
  Whether you're an early careers teacher or have years of classroom experience,
• 2:11
  examining with AQA is a valuable way to develop your knowledge and join a community of subject specialists.
• 2:18
  Join AQA as an examiner this summer. Visit aqa.org.uk forward slash apply today.
• 2:26
  This show is brought to you in partnership with Hachette Learning,
• 2:29
  publishers of professional development books and resources that support great teaching and learning in schools around the world.
• 2:35
  Level up your professional development today and visit HachetteLearning.com to explore the full range of titles.
• 2:42
  OK, so I'm going to introduce my guest. He has seven years of teaching,
• 2:47
  six years of those seven were in two different schools.
• 2:51
  He's been head of year for three different year groups, 8, 9 and 10 at different times.
• 2:56
  He's worked in comprehensive schools, church school, academy trusts,
• 3:00
  and he estimates he spends around 70 percent at least of his time, his head of year time, dealing with parents.
• 3:08
  So Jack, Jack Macy, welcome to the show.
• 3:12
  Hello. Thank you for having me. Can you hear me OK?
• 3:15
  I can hear you OK. My apologies for the silence there.
• 3:19
  I think I might have dropped out again on the on the old Wi-Fi, but welcome.
• 3:23
  Welcome. Welcome. We're going to talk about parental communications, the phone call home, the dreaded phone call home.
• 3:31
  How many of them would you reckon you've done over the years? Hundreds, if not thousands.
• 3:37
  Yeah, loads and loads. OK, so let's get straight into it, shall we?
• 3:42
  Let's ask you your first question. I'm going to pick your brains a little bit.
• 3:46
  I've got a few questions for you tonight, but obviously any sort of words of wisdom that you've got or advice you've got for teachers,
• 3:54
  do let us know and just chime in with those. So from your experience then as a head of year,
• 4:00
  what do you think parents actually want from communication from school?
• 4:07
  They want clear, concise sort of communication.
• 4:12
  They want it straight to the point. I think a mistake that a lot of teaching staff make is they email rather than phone.
• 4:27
  That phone call home where that would take you five or ten minutes, people get trapped in a cycle of an endless email chain,
• 4:38
  whereas the parent really just wants you to pick up the phone and say, this has happened.
• 4:44
  This has happened. This is how we're going to move forward.
• 4:47
  So do you think, because I know that there'll be a few teachers, especially trainees,
• 4:52
  because I'm a mentor to ECTs as well as to trainees, they do worry about the phone call home.
• 4:59
  So sometimes, you know, the easier option is to drop an email home.
• 5:03
  So you think that personal conversation is better? Of course.
• 5:07
  Yeah. And that's how you build a relationship with the parent.
• 5:11
  And also, if the student knows that you've got a good relationship with their parent, it's a game changer in the classroom.
• 5:20
  Really? So in what way? When is that?
• 5:23
  When have you kind of used that kind of idea of having that good relationship with a parent and letting the child know that, you know, you'll call home?
• 5:33
  So if I've called home previously and I've said I've seen this behaviour in your child X, Y and Z, and then that behaviour is then repeated,
• 5:43
  I then might have a private conversation with the student away from the class and say, look, I've spoken to mum or dad.
• 5:53
  We're singing from the same hymn sheet. We are fully aware and home is aware as well.
• 6:01
  And then the student then thinks, oh right, if my mum and dad know or parent or carer know, it just builds that relationship.
• 6:12
  So it sounds like the parents like to feel included as well.
• 6:16
  Like they know what's going on at school so that if a child goes home and spins them a bit of a yarn on what's happened during the day,
• 6:22
  if you've already spoken to the parent and told them from that adult point of view, then, you know, it kind of lessens that impact, doesn't it?
• 6:30
  Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So it's quite interesting that because we've done, you and I have done a couple of conversations with students.
• 6:40
  And it's interesting to hear you. And I've heard you say to students, well, I'll call home.
• 6:45
  What do you think home is going to say? What do you think mum's going to say or dad's going to say?
• 6:49
  And the student really does stop in their tracks and they're like, oh, oh, OK.
• 6:55
  I get it. Because we've built that relationship with the parent, I know exactly what Joe Bloggs' mum is going to say.
• 7:04
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, their personality, don't you? Yes, yes.
• 7:07
  Is it better then, for a head of year, I'm going to assume that it's probably better that you follow your year group up.
• 7:13
  So when they start in year seven, say, and you take them in year seven, you go through the year groups rather than changing?
• 7:18
  Oh, definitely. Because once you get to the GCSEs, you've then built that relationship with the student and the parent.
• 7:27
  And you can say, look, I remember your son or your daughter in year eight.
• 7:32
  And look how far they've sort of come in their school career.
• 7:38
  And also, you can talk to them about if there are any worries or concerns, you know the background of that child.
• 7:51
  So what's in character, what's out of character also. Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it?
• 7:56
  And, you know, a lot of my schools that I've been in, they do tend to follow, like the head of year does tend to follow the year group.
• 8:02
  It's only occasionally where you might have a head of year 11, say, and they like to stay ahead of year 11 because of the exams and everything else.
• 8:09
  But I do think, I agree, I think it is really beneficial. So what do you think then as a head of year?
• 8:15
  I mean, this might be, you might as well split this question in terms of being a teacher and then being a head of year.
• 8:19
  What are the most common reasons that you find yourself calling home for?
• 8:24
  And how do you kind of try and reframe those conversations so they're more positive?
• 8:30
  So as a teacher in the classroom, I find that if you always lead with a positive.
• 8:38
  So I, within the first one or two terms, I make a point of calling home to give the positive news.
• 8:47
  And then further sort of down the line, if behaviour dips or the grade dips, the parent will remember,
• 8:55
  well, actually, Mr. Macy said this earlier on in the year.
• 9:00
  Yeah. Yeah. So it gives them something to think about previously, doesn't it?
• 9:04
  Yes. Yeah. And then as a head of year, it's more geared towards those safeguarding sort of conversations.
• 9:13
  So we've noticed this in school. Can you fill me in at home?
• 9:18
  But obviously, if you've not built the relationship with the parents at home, that conversation is quite a difficult one to have.
• 9:28
  Yeah, I was going to say that there's a real difference, isn't there, between, you know, as a teacher.
• 9:34
  So if I'm ringing home, it will be usually like the start of the year.
• 9:40
  I usually actually do send an email home to all of my new students in September and just introduce myself, etc.
• 9:46
  But I do try and do the positive phone calls home, but it's so busy when everyone's like busy, busy, busy.
• 9:51
  But when I do call home for any issues, most parents are quite, you know, supportive and they will,
• 9:59
  they will kind of listen to you if it's not the first time that you've spoken to them.
• 10:04
  Because I think sometimes, actually, as you go through the year, if you then pick up the phone in like, I don't know, the May,
• 10:10
  and you say, well, you know, little Johnny, he's been falling behind for the last two months and you haven't called home.
• 10:17
  Yeah, even as a parent, I'm a parent myself, you know, I'd be like, why haven't you called me to tell me?
• 10:24
  Yeah, I think the relationships are really, really important, especially with parents as well, so that we can build that.
• 10:31
  So it doesn't become reactive as well.
• 10:34
  Because I think sometimes when you're calling home as teachers, it can be sometimes reactive.
• 10:40
  Yeah, you want to try and be a little bit more proactive.
• 10:46
  So we're quite fortunate in the school that we work in that we have telephones in the classroom.
• 10:56
  Quite often or not, I'll make a little list during the day.
• 11:02
  And then at the end of the day, 15 minutes, I'll call five, six parents and say, just let you know, this has gone really, really well.
• 11:12
  I'm really proud.
• 11:13
  That's a really good tip, actually, to keep that notebook in the classroom to remind you to bring home for certain children.
• 11:21
  Because, you know, nine o'clock in the morning, first period of day is a long way.
• 11:27
  So much happens in a day in a school.
• 11:30
  That's a really good tip for the teachers, especially for ECTs who are in their first year, you know, keeping that tally.
• 11:38
  Yes.
• 11:39
  What you're going to call home for.
• 11:40
  Yeah.
• 11:41
  Positive phone calls.
• 11:42
  Have you got any tips just while we're on the subject of actually speaking to parents?
• 11:47
  If you've got a parent who likes to talk and they want to keep you on the line, have you got a little tip for anyone to see if you can kind of shorten that call?
• 11:56
  So, yeah, yeah.
• 11:59
  So, I would sort of open it up by saying, I've got three, four minutes, just a quick call.
• 12:07
  I just want to let you know this.
• 12:09
  And what I often find is the positive sort of phone calls are always the quickest.
• 12:16
  Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 12:18
  Actually, they are.
• 12:19
  But if you pre-warn them at the start, I've got two, three minutes.
• 12:24
  I just want to let you know this has gone well.
• 12:27
  This has gone well.
• 12:28
  I'm very, very proud, etc.
• 12:30
  Yeah.
• 12:31
  More often or not, the parents, thank you very much.
• 12:34
  Thank you for calling.
• 12:35
  I'll see you later sort of thing.
• 12:37
  So it's quite good to frame it before you even get into the conversation.
• 12:41
  Frame it first.
• 12:42
  Definitely.
• 12:43
  I had a colleague once in a previous school, and she was excellent at parental phone calls.
• 12:49
  I listened to her, and she would be off that phone, even for challenging phone calls, really quick.
• 12:55
  And I said to her, what's your tip?
• 12:57
  And she said a similar thing, like to frame the calls so they haven't got long.
• 13:00
  But also, she said, is just to talk and give that information out quickly so that the information's there,
• 13:07
  so that you don't get into that kind of long sort of tennis match that you can sometimes have.
• 13:13
  And just say, thank you very much.
• 13:15
  Thank you.
• 13:16
  I really do need to go now.
• 13:17
  Thank you.
• 13:18
  Please do call in the office if you want to discuss any further, and then really kind of hurry that phone call on.
• 13:23
  But she was excellent at it, and that was in my previous school.
• 13:27
  And I'll never forget, there was one phone call that I thought was going to be a very long one,
• 13:32
  and it was over in a matter of minutes because she was so good at it.
• 13:36
  She's got the knack.
• 13:37
  Interesting, isn't she?
• 13:39
  Okay, so I've just got another question before I put some more ads on.
• 13:44
  Yeah.
• 13:45
  So what do you think is the biggest mistake that staff make when communicating with parents,
• 13:50
  especially if they're having to do that difficult phone call about behavior or pastoral concerns?
• 13:56
  It's emailing home.
• 13:58
  Really?
• 13:59
  I would always say, try not to email.
• 14:03
  Just pick up the phone and make the call because you then get caught in sort of like a tennis match or backwards and forwards,
• 14:12
  and that five, six-minute call then turns into an email chain lasting days.
• 14:18
  That is true, and I think emails, you can never tell people's emotions or attitudes, can you, in an email?
• 14:25
  No.
• 14:26
  It's so difficult.
• 14:27
  Especially sort of if it's for a reason that's probably not sort of positive.
• 14:36
  They might read it in the wrong way.
• 14:38
  They can't gauge your tone.
• 14:41
  Yeah, I'm a mum of three, and I've only got one now in secondary school, who's a 13-year-old boy with ADHD.
• 14:50
  So I get a fair amount of phone calls, et cetera, but I must admit, even as a parent,
• 14:56
  as a teacher as well, obviously working at school, but it does slightly annoy me when I get an email home,
• 15:02
  and it tells me about what he's done during the day, whatever it is he's done.
• 15:06
  And even though I know the teacher is going to be telling me something that I already know about him
• 15:10
  because I know he can be chatty and interrupt people, et cetera, and I agree with what they're saying,
• 15:15
  but I always feel like at the end of the email, if they sign it off with,
• 15:19
  oh, you know, I'd really appreciate if you could speak to him, blah, blah, blah,
• 15:22
  and I think, well, of course I'm going to speak to him.
• 15:24
  Yeah.
• 15:25
  I don't know, it makes me feel a bit, I get a bit irritated. I don't get angry, I just get irritated,
• 15:30
  and I think, well, of course I'm going to speak to him, he's my son.
• 15:32
  Yeah.
• 15:33
  But when they call me, you know, it's very different because they do say to me, you know,
• 15:38
  I know, you know, he's usually really chatty, et cetera, and usually that's really good, but today he got it wrong, et cetera.
• 15:43
  Yeah.
• 15:44
  And I'm a little bit more kind of, yeah, I understand, and it, you know, I don't get irritated at all.
• 15:48
  Yeah.
• 15:49
  So it's a really good tip, just don't email.
• 15:51
  Yeah.
• 15:52
  It's more.
• 15:54
  Go on, sorry.
• 15:55
  Yeah, definitely.
• 15:57
  That call home.
• 15:59
  Yeah, and as I said, it's just how you frame it, even make a little sort of dialogue list.
• 16:07
  So this is what I want to say, key to your sheet, and then sign off.
• 16:13
  That's a really good tip, having a script, isn't it?
• 16:15
  Yeah.
• 16:16
  Having some sort of script or key words or key sentence stems that you would use,
• 16:19
  because sometimes you get caught out, especially if you're new to teaching.
• 16:22
  I remember being an MQT, and I absolutely hate calling home.
• 16:27
  And in the school that I was in when I first started teaching, you wasn't allowed to email.
• 16:31
  You had to call home.
• 16:32
  It was like a school policy.
• 16:33
  Yeah.
• 16:34
  So, and I remember just getting like sweaty palms and everything, and also it's quite nice at the school we're in,
• 16:40
  we've got a phone call in every class, which I think is so important because I had to do this phone call in the office
• 16:47
  with everyone listening, and they all want to listen to a newbie.
• 16:50
  Yeah.
• 16:51
  And you just think, oh, my goodness, what am I going to say?
• 16:53
  Yeah.
• 16:54
  So, yeah, it's that idea, isn't it, that the tone of your phone call, the tone of your voice can completely change the outcome of something.
• 17:01
  And actually, in the day of AI, now that we're in now, you know, people can just relock something off on AI, can't they?
• 17:09
  You just type something in, and it sends an entire email, and then you end up, you know, having a conversation with someone over email,
• 17:16
  which is half AI, which is really confusing, isn't it?
• 17:20
  Yeah.
• 17:21
  Okay.
• 17:22
  Thank you, Jack.
• 17:23
  I think what we'll do is we'll go to a few ads, and then we'll come back and we'll talk some more.
• 17:28
  Perfect.
• 17:34
  Ready to make an impact beyond the classroom?
• 17:37
  AQA is looking for teachers like you to become examiners this summer.
• 17:41
  You'll build your CPD, strengthen your understanding of the MARC scheme, and gain fresh insights to enhance your teaching.
• 17:48
  It's flexible, paid work that fits around your commitments, with full training from our experts and ongoing support from an experienced team leader.
• 17:58
  Whether you're an early careers teacher or have years of classroom experience,
• 18:02
  examining with AQA is a valuable way to develop your knowledge and join a community of subject specialists.
• 18:09
  Join AQA as an examiner this summer.
• 18:12
  Visit aqa.org.uk forward slash apply today.
• 18:17
  This show is brought to you in partnership with Hachette Learning,
• 18:20
  publishers of professional development books and resources that support great teaching and learning in schools around the world.
• 18:26
  Level up your professional development today and visit HachetteLearning.com to explore the full range of titles.
• 18:34
  At AQA, we work with the UK's largest teacher network to shape the future of assessment with teachers for students.
• 18:42
  We ask questions today that matter tomorrow.
• 18:48
  OK, welcome back, everybody.
• 18:50
  And I'm here with Jack, who's our current Head of Year.
• 18:54
  We are discussing the phone call home, the dreaded phone call home.
• 18:58
  So we've had a little conversation.
• 19:01
  I've asked Jack a few questions about how he tackles phone calls home and some little tips and advice,
• 19:06
  especially for new teachers that are new to calling home.
• 19:10
  So we were talking just before the ads a little bit about the structure of a phone call.
• 19:15
  So let's sort of reframe this a little bit, because I think, like I said just before,
• 19:21
  I as an NQT got very, very nervous and panicky and anxious about calling home when there was a behaviour issue.
• 19:29
  So, Jack, I'm going to ask you this question.
• 19:32
  How do you structure a difficult phone call so that it doesn't become confrontational?
• 19:39
  They're always the worst. They make me quite nervous even now after seven years of doing it.
• 19:46
  But the key thing is just to keep it to the point and keep it very white hat facts.
• 19:55
  Yeah. So this is what happened. This is what happened.
• 20:00
  If the parent becomes confrontational, I tone it down, I lower my tone and my voice and I start to talk a bit more softer.
• 20:13
  And I say, look, I'm here to help. I'm just informing you of the situation.
• 20:20
  We are investigating. We are going to put X, Y and Z in place.
• 20:25
  We're here to assist. We're here to help. But then equally, sometimes parents just want to sound bored.
• 20:32
  So it might be the case that for two, three minutes, you just need to let them talk and then come back around to,
• 20:42
  well, as I said, this is what happened. These are the facts. This is what we're going to do.
• 20:48
  Yeah, that's a really important point, actually, is take that emotion out and just stick to the facts.
• 20:55
  And that's where having that notepad and planning the phone call is so important.
• 21:00
  And having those phrases or words that you're going to use in the phone call as well.
• 21:06
  But that's interesting about the sounding board, because I've had a couple of phone calls, not loads,
• 21:10
  but a couple of phone calls where, you know, I'm the first person that might have spoken to them about their child's behaviour,
• 21:18
  however it is. And then I get a whole history of what happened to them in infants and nursery right up until secondary school.
• 21:27
  So I agree with that. I think sometimes you do, you do just have to listen and show them that you've listened,
• 21:33
  but then bring it back. Yes. Why are you called?
• 21:36
  Because otherwise that's when we have those big phone calls where it can take half an hour.
• 21:40
  Yes. And then really, you know, I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that if I have a young teacher who comes off the phone
• 21:49
  and they come to us, I was on the phone for 40 minutes to that mum.
• 21:52
  And I'd be like, why didn't you take control of the phone call and say, I really need to go.
• 21:59
  I will jot down these few points and then perhaps we'll pick this up another time or bring it back to the facts.
• 22:04
  Because I think, especially if you're inexperienced, and it does seem to be a lot of new teachers, like ECTs,
• 22:10
  that have this issue, is not knowing when to say to a parent or carer,
• 22:16
  actually, we're starting to go off of what this phone call was actually about.
• 22:21
  So if we could bring it back to what we're talking about, you know, whatever's happened.
• 22:27
  How do you deal with that if they want to start taking you down a little rabbit hole of different things?
• 22:33
  Is that how you deal with it? So sort of a phrase that I use a lot is I understand.
• 22:41
  I see your point of view. And then I would say, I just want to come back to this.
• 22:49
  I want to talk about this. We can talk about that another time. I'm more than happy.
• 22:54
  But for now, I need to talk to you sort of about a situation, the behaviour, the grades, etc.
• 23:03
  Yeah, that's a really good, really good point, because that was actually my next question, Jack,
• 23:07
  was about what phrases or approaches or sentence stems that you would use,
• 23:11
  because there might be some, you know, ECTs listening or even trainees or even just people that are not used to calling home.
• 23:18
  And, you know, maybe it's been a while. So you've got like you said about I understand.
• 23:25
  I hear you. But let's bring it back to what I'm here to speak about today.
• 23:29
  And we will we can revisit that. You can come in for me or whatever it might be.
• 23:32
  You got any other sort of sentences or phrases that your favourite go to's for the difficult conversations?
• 23:39
  My favourite go to's? Yeah, your favourite go to's.
• 23:45
  You've probably got a book somewhere, haven't you? They're all written down in a book somewhere.
• 23:49
  Yeah. So it's I think it's it's it's quite a difficult thing because it's each parent is not the same.
• 24:01
  So we've we've a parent that's quite confrontational.
• 24:07
  My sort of little book of phrases would be please don't talk to me like that.
• 24:12
  I need to help you. That's a good phrase. Yeah, I'm here to help you.
• 24:16
  With a parent that is a talker, I might say I just need to stop you there.
• 24:23
  Can I just sort of say this? Yeah. Sort of thing.
• 24:27
  And don't be frightened of interrupting. Don't let them talk and talk and talk.
• 24:32
  Just say I'm going to have to stop you there. I've got two, three minutes left.
• 24:36
  I just need to get my point across and then. Yeah. Sort of thing.
• 24:41
  And I think that that confidence as well to kind of say that is is takes time, doesn't it?
• 24:47
  To kind of definitely create. And I think that's that's why I think some, you know,
• 24:52
  HCTs find it really hard and they just stay on the phone. They just listen.
• 24:56
  Yeah. Ages and ages. And also, I think if they if that happens, it dilutes what you're actually there to talk about.
• 25:04
  You kind of get, you know, the actual thing, whether it's grades or behaviour, whatever it might be.
• 25:09
  The parent goes away thinking, oh, they were nice. They listen to it. But do they go away with.
• 25:13
  Oh, actually, I need to speak to Johnny about this. Yeah.
• 25:16
  Whatever it is, you know, it just dilutes the whole thing.
• 25:18
  And then I think it loses its essence of what the phone call was about.
• 25:22
  Yeah. Once you interrupt the parent once, it becomes easier and easier.
• 25:29
  It's just that sort of initial getting that confidence to say, I'm just going to stop you there.
• 25:36
  Yeah. I want to talk about this. Yeah. And I think, you know, especially if you do the phone call and it's coming up to, you know, your next lesson time.
• 25:45
  And, you know, the kids are at the door and you think, I've got to get off this phone call.
• 25:49
  You know, you're like, oh, my goodness. And then the ear starts to sweat on the phone.
• 25:55
  Oh, my goodness, I need to get off this phone call. Excellent.
• 25:58
  Excellent. OK, so what I did was when we I was going to discuss this topic on phoning home, I had a little dig into articles, etc.
• 26:08
  and research into communication with with home and schools week did a little article on the 20th of November last year.
• 26:17
  And it had five lessons from top trusts on parental communication.
• 26:24
  And some of them were what we have been discussing. So the first one is treat communication as culture and not admin.
• 26:33
  Yes. I mean, it says here communication is not an operational task, but the foundation of relationships, which I think is what you've been talking about the whole time, isn't it?
• 26:43
  It's having those relationships with parents and not using it as just a behavior tool.
• 26:48
  Definitely. You know, and speaking to the parent because, you know, ex-child has done something and actually saying, oh, hi, you know, Mrs.
• 26:55
  Smith. Oh, I just want to check in with you because such and such happens. Is everything OK at home? That sort of thing.
• 27:01
  So, yeah, I think I think that that lines of what we've been talking about.
• 27:05
  The second one, interestingly, is focus on tone and clarity, not volume.
• 27:11
  Yes, which is exactly what you were saying about, you know, when if a parent does get a bit annoyed and starts raising their voice at you is keeping yourself calm, keeping your voice low and maintaining the factual element of the phone call to start with and being, you know, trying to be positive as well.
• 27:30
  Framing it like you said, you said earlier about starting the phone call with the positivity.
• 27:34
  Yes, because I think that's always good. And, you know, I think, again, this is a parent's evening. This was it wasn't actually a phone call, but I was sitting, you know, like we all are.
• 27:43
  We all sit next to another teacher, don't we? And sometimes you're in a big hall where your teachers from other subjects.
• 27:50
  So this is another school and I was next to someone from another subject. And he was really flattering this parent and really saying lovely stuff about the child and how a great parent they must have.
• 28:00
  They brought the child up to be lovely, etc. And then kicked in with this behavior issue that had been happening.
• 28:07
  And I think the parent was so built up thinking it was going to be really positive. They didn't really know what to say.
• 28:13
  And when the parent left, I said, I really felt like that was going to be like a really positive parent.
• 28:20
  And he said, well, you know, he said sometimes flattery goes a long way.
• 28:24
  He said, if you flatter the parent and make them feel special, that they've done a good job.
• 28:28
  Actually, that little piece of bad news about behavior or marks or whatever it is, actually sort of cushioned a little bit.
• 28:36
  It doesn't fall flat because if you, you know, if a parent turns up and you go straight in, well, little Johnny's done this, this and this.
• 28:43
  And he doesn't do this in lesson and he's on, you know, grade zero across the board.
• 28:47
  Then, yeah, you're going to get a different, a different reaction to it.
• 28:52
  So let's have a look at these other ones. So number three was show that feedback leads to action.
• 28:58
  So like that, you said, so we did, which is probably a bit more of a leadership role on things, I suppose.
• 29:06
  But as a head of year, I'm sure you must have had numerous parental meetings where you've been in and you've said, well, you said this last time and we actually did this for such and such.
• 29:17
  But it hasn't worked. I mean, have you been in that situation?
• 29:21
  Usually it's in every school that I've worked as as a head of year.
• 29:27
  It's nine times out of ten to do with the mobile phone policy where we have a very clear mobile phone policy and the parent doesn't necessarily agree.
• 29:43
  And then they say, well, I think it should be this, this and this.
• 29:47
  And I say, thank you for your feedback. I'll pass that up.
• 29:50
  Yeah, but I'm sure you can appreciate this is the policy you've chosen to send your child here.
• 29:57
  This is what we do. Yeah.
• 30:00
  That's a really important point, isn't it? Is that this the choice?
• 30:03
  There was always a choice to send, you know, it's different to when I was at school many moons ago, you know, admissions and stuff.
• 30:11
  You can take your child to different schools. Yeah.
• 30:13
  Yeah. Wherever you're going to be. So it is a choice.
• 30:18
  You know, when you get when you look at policies, et cetera. So that's a good point.
• 30:22
  Really good point. So number four on this was begin every relationship with warmth.
• 30:29
  There's a saying I can't remember what the saying is. I wish I've written it down now.
• 30:34
  We start with warmth before you do anything else.
• 30:37
  Yes. So always checking in if you're even if you're speaking to a child, you know, not got a tie on or whatever before you go into why have you not got a tie on it?
• 30:45
  Oh, hi. How are you? How was your how was your, you know, walk to school?
• 30:48
  Oh, by the way, where's your tie? Yeah.
• 30:52
  Yeah. And just put it at the end, you know, and make it a question.
• 30:55
  So I have to answer to you, which I think is quite fun.
• 30:59
  And then I've got number five. Make the first contact home positive.
• 31:04
  Yes. Which you have said on numerous times now about this positivity.
• 31:09
  So my next question is going to be how important is it to make those positive phone calls home?
• 31:14
  And what impact have you seen when it's done well?
• 31:18
  So this could be as a head of year or if you've got people in your team that have done particularly well at building this positivity, you know, how important are these positive phone calls home?
• 31:30
  So as head of year, I lead the form to his fleet captains.
• 31:37
  Yeah. The more they contact home in a positive way, the easier it is for us as a school to manage behaviour because it then turns from, well, I've not heard anything from the school.
• 31:56
  And now you're barraging me with negative, negative, negative to actually the parent talking to the child and saying, I've heard nothing but good things from science teacher, maths teacher, PE teacher to now.
• 32:13
  I'm hearing this. Yeah. So it builds that foundation stone of the parent teacher relationship to then help us both manage the behaviour of the child.
• 32:30
  Yeah. So do you think, do you think staff, this is in all of the schools that you've been in, do you think staff underestimate the power of positive phone calls home?
• 32:40
  100%. It's always on the to do list and it always gets bumped down and down and down. But if you said, right, I'm going to do two positive phone calls at the end of each day, three minutes each.
• 33:00
  Yeah.
• 33:02
  By the time you found that over two or three terms, you've spoken to every child that you teach.
• 33:08
  Yeah. That's interesting, isn't it? And they can, you can see how that's going to build the trust between you and the student as well, because a lot of the time, if it's a positive, the parent will tell the child, oh, I had a phone call from Mr. Macy today.
• 33:23
  And the child looks at you like, what? And they go, well, actually, he did really well in such and such. So, yeah, I think, yeah, absolutely. I agree as well.
• 33:33
  What I've had quite, sort of a lot of from the pupils that I teach is, you find my mum.
• 33:41
  Yeah, they do.
• 33:43
  And it's really nice. And they don't expect it.
• 33:47
  No, yeah, they're really surprised.
• 33:49
  They're very, very shocked and surprised. And then a few weeks sort of down the line, they're actively asking me, can you find my mum again?
• 33:57
  Yeah, yeah, I've had that. Yeah. Yeah. Can you find my mum? I've got this amount of positive points. Can you ring home now?
• 34:06
  Yeah.
• 34:08
  Yeah, no, that's, I think it is, I think it is very powerful. And I think, like you said, it is underestimated, not by everyone. But I think, I think also, though, I think it comes down to the culture of the school.
• 34:19
  Yes.
• 34:20
  And I think at the moment, and, you know, again, I'm being a bit controversial here, but there is a lot of doom and gloom around education. At the moment, there's a lot, you know, I'm finding it really hard to kind of pick up, you know, BBC News on my phone.
• 34:32
  And there's something that's, that's negative about education or something new that's been told we've now got to use or another parent has gone on to a, you know, a local newspaper online and said, you know, this school did this to my child, it breaches their human rights or whatever it might be.
• 34:51
  And it just feels like it comes from all different angles. And I think, you know, perhaps if there was more of a culture of the positive side of education and the positive things that the students do, because there are so many positive things that happen in schools every single day and in classrooms.
• 35:08
  And I think, you know, for a lot of our children, it would make such a huge difference to their own self esteem as well that someone noticed, especially those ones that, like, go under the radar that just do everything right every day.
• 35:20
  Yes.
• 35:21
  You know, so they're coming to school on time, their uniforms always great. They're on time to every lesson, they do their work diligently. They might not be amazing grades, but they're holding their grades and they're progressively getting better.
• 35:33
  They always get forgotten, don't they?
• 35:35
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:36
  And sometimes the children that kind of just kind of fly under the radar, because they're not particularly very naughty, but they're also not particularly very bright.
• 35:44
  And, you know, I always feel like sometimes, you know, they need an advocate as well. So, you know, they feel that they're being seen. And they're not just going home thinking, well, you know, I did this today, you know, but nobody's said that I did a good job.
• 35:57
  I mean, I'm not saying that everyone needs that. But I think for children, they're so impressionable.
• 36:04
  You know, we have a big mental health crisis for our children at the moment in teenage children. And I think something like a positive phone call home would probably make a huge difference in their lives.
• 36:14
  Yeah. And what I quite like about our school as well is the communication is via phone, but also when you give a positive point, the parents get notified on their little app on their phone.
• 36:30
  Yeah.
• 36:31
  And then what I've had more recently is parents phoning me and saying, thank you for the five points. That meant the world to such and such.
• 36:44
  Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point, actually. Yeah, because you've built that. And also for somebody to do that, a parent to do that, they must know you, like they've spoken to you before, they feel like, oh, he'd like to know that as well. So it goes both ways, doesn't it?
• 36:59
  Definitely.
• 37:00
  Yeah. Okay. Right. We're going to have a little break. We're going to listen to the news for a few minutes. So we shall be back. Jack, we will have to continue this conversation after we've heard the news. All right. See you soon.
• 37:14
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• 37:21
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• 37:28
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• 37:37
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• 37:48
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• 37:57
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• 38:06
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• 38:14
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• 38:22
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• 38:27
  This is Teachers Talk Radio and this is Teachers Talk Radio News.
• 38:36
  Thousands of pupils across the UAE and other countries in the Middle East are facing education upheaval due to the Iran war after critical A-level and GCSE international examinations were cancelled.
• 38:57
  The National covers the story in its online version and says that Pearson, who set international GCSE exams in more than 80 countries, has halted exams due to be held in May and June for schools in the Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait and Lebanon.
• 39:14
  Cambridge International has also decided against holding exams, with schools asked to complete portfolios of pupils' work to help decide final grades.
• 39:25
  Oxford AQA is yet to make a decision, but contingencies would be put in place.
• 39:31
  A-level students are particularly anxious about the cancellation of their exams.
• 39:36
  Whilst those with offers from US universities are likely to face minimal issue, those with conditional offers from UK universities face more uncertainty.
• 39:46
  These institutions will expect schools to submit credible and comprehensive evidence portfolios.
• 39:53
  More details can be found online.
• 39:56
  Schools Week says specialist school Ofsted inspection report cards will no longer compare their cohorts to national mainstream averages after complaints.
• 40:08
  Ofsted provides contextual data about schools to parents, including data metrics such as capacity and pupil demographics.
• 40:18
  New reports will simply show the schools' own data, with no comparison except a school's location deprivation ranking.
• 40:26
  However, previous reports will not be reissued.
• 40:30
  Ofsted said,
• 40:32
  We consider the feedback from special schools and have made a change to our report cards.
• 40:37
  We are grateful to those who raised this important issue.
• 40:41
  Schools Week also reports that head teachers and trust leaders have been urged to ignore fraudulent letters with a ministerial signature purporting to be about a data breach.
• 40:54
  The Department for Education has issued the warning over deceptive communications masquerading as a government regulatory notice.
• 41:02
  It said leaders should ignore the instructions set out in the letter, which claims there has been a data breach at a firm that maintains background check records for schools.
• 41:13
  The DFE also said leaders must ensure senior leaders, governance leads and admin teams are aware and that they should report any receipt of the letter to the DFE.
• 41:25
  Intradev, a software supplier to online SCR, was hit by a cyber attack last summer.
• 41:32
  The company's director said it was aware of the letter and said it was a serious attempt to damage our business and reputation.
• 41:41
  He added,
• 41:42
  We are glad the DFE has responded quickly and alerted Multi-Academy Trust to the fraudulent nature of the correspondence.
• 41:50
  Finally, the BBC reports that teachers have voted to oppose the introduction of a new compulsory reading test for Year 8 pupils in England at the NEU's annual conference in Brighton.
• 42:03
  The government has said the tests would be introduced by the end of the current parliament in 2029.
• 42:09
  The DFE said tests and assessments were vital tools for identifying where pupils need extra support, ensuring no child is left behind.
• 42:20
  The union said it welcomed commitments to tackle a decline in reading, but that introducing a mandatory test undermines the very aim it seeks to achieve.
• 42:31
  Other concerns included more testing adding more stress and anxiety to pupils who already sit tests in England in seven of their school years between reception and Year 13.
• 42:43
  The DFE responded by saying,
• 42:45
  Too many children start secondary school without the foundations needed to succeed, particularly white working-class children and those with SEND.
• 42:56
  That's why we are introducing a mandatory reading test in Year 8, so we can ensure these pupils are getting the support they need to be on track ahead of their GCSEs.
• 43:07
  This has been Teachers Talk Radio News with Jo Fox.
• 43:14
  OK, welcome back, everybody.
• 43:17
  So, I'm on the line with Jack and we are talking about parental communication.
• 43:27
  And more specifically, the phone call home. Oh, I say that with a bit of doom in my voice because I think sometimes you can get a bit nerve-wracking calling home.
• 43:35
  OK, so I've just got a couple more questions for you, Jack. Thank you so much for being with us this evening on this Friday night.
• 43:43
  I know on a Friday night, there's probably lots of better things to be doing than speaking to me about parental communication.
• 43:51
  I'm very happy that you've decided to join me. OK, so my next question is about handling situations because sometimes parents can get defensive or just disengaged in the phone call.
• 44:06
  So how do you handle those sort of situations where they get a little bit defensive, even if you've done the facts and you've told them what's happened?
• 44:15
  You know, how do you handle those situations?
• 44:19
  The defensive ones are a bit easier because if you come from a place of warmth and just telling them the facts, they can't really argue with you because it always will come back to, well, this is what happened.
• 44:38
  This is what happened sort of thing. The disengaged parents are the trickier ones because with all the will in the world, you can be warm, you can be caring.
• 44:51
  But if they are disengaged, it's very hard to bring them into the conversation. So you have to work that little bit harder.
• 45:01
  Yeah, definitely. I always find there's always, it's really hard to disengage parents because there's usually long silences because I expect them to say something back.
• 45:12
  And then sometimes they'll just be like, OK, thanks for letting me know. You know, and it's really hard to kind of get that conversation going sometimes.
• 45:22
  But I mean, they're not, they're few and far between, I would say. There's not that many at all that are like that.
• 45:28
  When you have a conversation like that, I would chunk it like I would do in the classroom. So I would say, what do you think about this? And I would ask their opinion. What would you like the next steps to be?
• 45:44
  Yeah, that's a good one, actually. What would you like the next steps to be?
• 45:49
  Yeah, you put the onus back on them. And then that seems to re-engage them because nine times out of ten, they've had experiences with the primary school or a different school where it's, we are telling you this is what is going to happen.
• 46:08
  Yeah, that's a really good point, actually. I think a lot of the parents that are defensive or when it escalates is because they've had that past bad experience with either other schools or, like you said, primary schools.
• 46:25
  And I think that's a really important point because that happens with the children as well sometimes, I think, because they come in sometimes in year seven with that trauma of whatever's happened in primary school and they just assume that it's just going to carry on.
• 46:38
  And it's quite difficult, isn't it, to kind of break down those walls and then build up again.
• 46:44
  Yes, from that starting point. So, I mean, I know you said earlier about when people get a bit irate on the phone that you kind of calm down a bit and you go a bit lower in your voice, but how do you stop it from escalating? What if they're really angry and they're not listening to you, no matter how slow you start to speak to them or, you know, how do you stop it?
• 47:07
  You have to be really, really brave and basically say, if you continue to talk to me in that tone or using that language, I will end the call and I will give you a call back in X amount of days and we can have this sort of conversation again.
• 47:28
  And then if it's still the same after sort of two or three days, then I would probably invite them in for a meeting with either a senior member of staff or with someone who would be more eloquent in understanding their issues.
• 47:49
  So, if it's a problem with the send, I would then say to the send co in the school, can you be present in the meeting or even can you be present on the phone call? Many a time, I've had three or four members of staff in on a phone call and we all chop and change and chip in.
• 48:13
  That's a good point, actually, because sometimes you don't have to do these things on your own, especially if it is going to be a really high profile kind of conversation. And like you said, if it's something to do with send and it's not your area, you know, if you need the send co there, who's got that more experience, then yeah, I think that's a really good point, actually.
• 48:32
  Even the teaching assistant. So, I've had quite a few conversations on the phone where a student has a one-to-one and I invite them in to be part of the conversation on the phone because they see that child day in, day out across all the subjects. They are the expert on that student.
• 48:54
  Yeah, that's a really good point, actually, is deploying those TAs in the classroom, but on, you know, on the phone calls as well, because, you know, as we know, TAs are gold dust, really, at the moment in education. And I think, like you said, they have a different kind of relationship with the children. And sometimes, I mean, I know a lot of TAs that have had children give them safeguarding issues that the TAs dealt with, you know, passed on to the DSL.
• 49:21
  Because I have that kind of trust with them. So, I think having them on the phone call like that would be really beneficial because then, you know, you get almost like the student's voice as well, which is really interesting.
• 49:33
  No, I really agree with that. I've got a little bit of… there's a couple of questions coming in, Jack, for you.
• 49:40
  Oh, are there? Lovely.
• 49:41
  Yeah, there are a couple of questions here. So, you know, this is more to do with the child in the classroom, but it involves kind of the parent. And someone's written, how do you approach tackling poor behaviour if a child says that a parent has told them, my mum, dad, carer, whoever it is, has told me I don't have to go to the inclusion room if I don't want to.
• 50:05
  So, you know, so this person's asking, you know, if we're asking to attend somewhere else or go somewhere else, and they say, well, I've been told I don't have to do what you say. Have you got any tips that you can use? I mean, I know that's more behaviour than it is about the phone call home. But have you had that sort of scenario before?
• 50:24
  I've had that many a time. And it's just get on the phone straight away to the parent and say, your child has said this. And then nine times out of ten, it's actually, I told them to do this. So they're not actually telling you the whole truth.
• 50:41
  Right. And that's the thing, isn't it? I like your use of word in there. Your child hasn't told you the whole truth, rather than your child's lying. Which is a bit more accusatory, isn't it? I like, you know, that's not actually what happened. Or, yeah, that's not the whole truth. So those are the sort of sentence stems, Jack, that we need in a little book that you could write for, for all teachers out there to say this is what I use.
• 51:08
  I'll get all the heads of you together and we'll write one.
• 51:11
  Yeah, put together a little, like, thesaurus or something of all these little tips of sentence stems. No, that's, yeah, that's a really, really important point. And I quite like that question. So thank you very much that person. Okay, I'm just going to ask you a final question here, Jack, because I know we've been talking for a little while now.
• 51:29
  So can you share an example of where strong communication, this relationship that you've built, or this, yeah, the phone calls that you've made positively and otherwise have genuinely changed a student's behaviour or outcome in the classroom?
• 51:45
  Yes. So the school that I work at now, I teach, let's call them sort of Pupil A. So Pupil A, quite sort of challenging. But I made the effort to call home and say, Pupil A, they opened their book today. They've done this today, that done really, really well.
• 52:11
  They've done this, and they've done that. So then when I then have to call home and say, actually, I'm quite surprised that they've spoken to me in this way. The parent is more, I don't want to say on the side of the teacher, but the parent is more understanding.
• 52:32
  And then the dynamics change between the teacher and the pupil, because the pupil knows that the teacher and the parent is in communication, and they're singing from the same hymn sheet.
• 52:48
  Yeah, I get it. So you've had those kind of positive moments then with parents when you've, you know, built that relationship, it can change the behaviour of the child.
• 53:11
  Yes. And also, it's important to call home just to say, your child was struggling with this. I sat with them, we worked through it. And now your child can do this, this and this.
• 53:25
  So then in the future, if there's a behaviour issue, if there's a situation, the parent often refers back to the child and says, well, Mr. Macy, he gave me a call way back in November, it's now say June, and he sat with you and he done this, this and this. Why are you behaving in that way now?
• 53:50
  Yeah, no, it's really, it's really interesting, actually, hearing you and, you know, speak about your own examples and your personal experience of these things, because I think sometimes, and I think this is what, you know, I really like about doing these shows with people that are working, that are teachers actively working in schools, because I think you have such a personal experience to share.
• 54:14
  And, you know, people listening can really take some of these ideas and tips and implement it straight away, which kind of leads me on to my final sort of thought that I've just thought of as we were talking there.
• 54:26
  What kind of, you know, if there is staff listening, or there are ACT's listening, and, you know, you had to give the one tip that they could implement on Monday, when they go into school to improve their communication with parents, what do you think it would be?
• 54:44
  I would say, at the end of the day, phone one child's parent or carer and just give a positive.
• 54:52
  So positive phone call home.
• 54:55
  If you did that every day, you've gone through a class in a month.
• 55:01
  Yeah, no, that's a really good point. Yeah.
• 55:05
  Okay, well, thank you very much, Jack, for joining me this evening. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you have as well, and I hope our listeners have.
• 55:13
  I'm just going to play some ads, and then I'm going to come back with a final close at the end. But for now, Jack, thank you very much. And hopefully, I'll invite you on again soon, and we can have another little conversation about being a head of gear on the front line.
• 55:27
  Thank you very much.
• 55:29
  No worries. And here are the ads.
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• 56:41
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• 56:47
  OK, thank you for staying tuned after the ads there.
• 56:51
  So I had Jack on earlier. We were talking about the phone call home.
• 56:55
  Is it a problem or is it partnership? And I think we've come to the agreement that it is partnership.
• 57:01
  I just wanted to share some last thoughts and also some tips that Jack was talking about on the show.
• 57:08
  His biggest tip for all teachers is if there's one thing you could you could do on Monday that would change how you deal with parental or change your parental communications, it would be the positive phone call home.
• 57:21
  You know, even if you do one a day, you know, for 30 days, you've gone through all of one class.
• 57:28
  And if you do two or three, that's even more. So definitely that's something we can all implement on from Monday.
• 57:34
  But I also wanted just to to kind of point you in the direction of that, you know, because I, as a lot of people listen to my show, I'm very evidence informed and I like doing the boring stuff like, you know, looking at research and stuff like that.
• 57:46
  And the EEF, the Education Endowment Foundation, have got a guidance report on working with parents to support the learning of children.
• 57:54
  And they do a very nice little summary of recommendations. But what I thought was interesting about the parental engagement report that they did and the research, they did 124 studies.
• 58:05
  And there is quite a moderate impact for very low costs based on the evidence that they had. And it said the positive impact with parental engagement was gained four months progress for those children.
• 58:17
  Which isn't something to be, you know, just kind of scoffed at really. You know, four months is quite large. And that's all just building those relationships with home and making sure those children know that you've got that that relationship with home.
• 58:30
  Because as Jack said, you know, when the times get tough, you can fall back on those positive phone calls that you've had previously.
• 58:36
  And the parent is more likely to trust you as well, because they're going to see you as someone who's there to help and somebody who likes their child.
• 58:42
  Because sometimes when we do a phone call home, if it's the only communication that you have with somebody and it's a negative vibe that they're getting, then they will be defensive.
• 58:55
  I mean, I would be if someone just rang me because my 13 year old son has interrupted lots of people again. And as I said earlier, he does get a few phone calls home to me.
• 59:05
  And, you know, if that's the only time I've ever heard it, and I've heard from that teacher and it's a negative thing, then yeah, I'm going to be like, okay, you know, he talks.
• 59:15
  But if I've had that kind of conversation with that teacher beforehand, and it's been positive, or it's been, you know, something that we can discuss, then it does kind of, my defenses come down a little bit as a parent.
• 59:28
  So I'm in that unique situation where I'm a parent of a teenager, I teach teenagers, and I'm also a leader in a school, so I see it from lots of different standpoints.
• 59:37
  But I wholeheartedly agree with Jack when he's talking about the positive phone call home. I don't think we can underestimate the power of positivity.
• 59:45
  You know, they say that smiles are infectious. And they are. And, you know, people know when you're smiling on the phone as well. I'm sure people know when I'm smiling on the show as well.
• 59:55
  So as this conversation comes to a close, there is one thing that is clear, that any phone call home is not just a phone call home. It is a moment where you can build the trust, where you can build that relationship, or unfortunately, it can be broken in one phone call.
• 1:00:13
  And this is why that positive phone call is so important. A moment where a parent can feel included, and a moment where a young person can see the adults in their life that are working together.
• 1:00:23
  So, and it's this idea of everybody's working together, because actually, we are all here for the same reason, is getting these kids through school in the most positive way possible, so that they learn all of the skills.
• 1:00:38
  And it's not just about exams and grades, it's about the skill set, the social skills that they need. You know, the skills for going through interviews, the speaking skills, the oracy skills, the reading skills, the writing skills, the mathematical skills, all of those things they're going to learn at school.
• 1:00:53
  So what's come through so strongly in all of this is that when communication is done well, it can change things. It can change the trajectory, can't even say that word, trajectory of a child's life. It really can. The EEF have said it can add four months progress.
• 1:01:10
  And Jack himself has spoken about his own experiences with children that have turned their behaviour around because they know that he is going to speak to a parent at home. It can change relationship, it changes behaviour, and it genuinely can change outcomes.
• 1:01:25
  So in actual fact, perhaps the question isn't, do we need to make the phone call? But actually, what kind of relationship are we building when we do make that phone call home? So rather than do we need to, it's we are expecting to, we are going to, but what kind of relationship do we want to have with that parent in this phone call?
• 1:01:47
  Because when the school and the home are truly working together, the impact goes far beyond any single conversation.
• 1:01:55
  So thank you for listening, everybody. I really hope that you got some tips there. I've really enjoyed speaking to Jack and his experiences and his hints and tips. And, you know, let this be kind of the start of a blossoming relationship between school and home. And I hope you've enjoyed this show. Please join me again, third Friday of the month, 7.30pm. Thank you very much for listening.
• 1:02:25
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