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Best way to buy real estate with a non-spouse · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I'm great? Thank you. What do you have for us
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: We have got no cases but two real life stories.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: And these are two cases that I actually came across
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  Speaker 3: that I thought were just just appropriate. So the first one, basically,
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  Speaker 3: I'll give you the title careful when you're buying real
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: estate within loss that might be a problem in and
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: of itself. And I'm going to leave you hanging on
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: that one as to what we did and when they
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: came in with the daughter and one mother and wanting
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  Speaker 3: to disinherit the other daughter and doing a state plan
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  Speaker 3: and deal with this one piece of property that they have,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: which is valuable. So stay tuned for that, folks. There's
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: ways that you can do it, and we're going to
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  Speaker 3: fix it for them to make sure they do it right.
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  Speaker 3: So good that they came in. The other one is
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: is basically we talk how important is to review your plan.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: And this will also show you that in the review process,
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  Speaker 3: switching even to a joint trust was okay. These people
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  Speaker 3: were about four point seven million concerned about you know,
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  Speaker 3: they had two revocable trusts. Now they're thinking about home planning,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: they're older. I'm going to tell you found out the
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  Speaker 3: trust weren't even funded. You know, what's the best approach
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: for them? They had long term care insurance. It was
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: really a good analysis. This is a great case to
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  Speaker 3: show you what you need to think about even if
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: you have your plan in place, and how the review
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: could result in doing something better than what you had before.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: So all that's important. It all comes down to planning,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: comes down to thinking about it. But unfortunately lots of
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: times people don't plan. And that's really what the brand
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: new guide is for this month, right It's the last
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: minute things you can do for Medicaid eligibility. Basically, we
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: tell people all the time, please don't write the check
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: to the nursing home. Even if you're faced with going
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: in there and you think you have this five year
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: waiting period and you can't do anything, folks, there are
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: things that can be done last minute. This guide will
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: give you those tips as to what you can think about.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Each asset is treated differently. A house versus a rental property,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: versus jointly held bank accounts with a spouse versus jointly
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: held with an individual, or investment accounts, how they're treated.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: What about four oh one k's iras Folks, assets are
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: treated differently and things can be done last minute to
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: save those assets or at least slow the financial bleeding.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Call and get the guide Last minute Medicaid eligibility tips
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: brand new for the month eight six six eight four
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine again or legal exchange show
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 3: six nine nine or go to legal exchange show dot
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: com download it there before you write the check. All right,
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  Speaker 3: what happened here? Excuse me? Seventy six year old comes in,
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  Speaker 3: call her Jane, and with one daughter and the daughter's
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  Speaker 3: husband to do planning for mom and for themselves. Jane
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  Speaker 3: has another daughter, but it's not really close with the
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: other daughter, and she's going to leave a small amount
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  Speaker 3: of an ira. And there was apparently a loan that
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  Speaker 3: she lent her like one hundred and thirty thousand dollars
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  Speaker 3: that she's going to forgive. But basically she had about
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  Speaker 3: two point two million dollars home and that she had
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  Speaker 3: purchased back in two thousand and seven, long time ago.
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  Speaker 3: So they didn't pay that in which she paid twenty
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  Speaker 3: five percent and the son in law, the husband of
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  Speaker 3: the daughter who was there, paid seventy five percent.
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  Speaker 2: Oh so they all lived together.
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  Speaker 3: And they all lived together. They placed it into a
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  Speaker 3: revocable trust that they called a realty trust. Of course,
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  Speaker 3: the schedule of beneficiaries were lost, so they didn't know,
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  Speaker 3: you know, who owned it. This seventy five twenty five
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  Speaker 3: split we have to figure out. It turns out that
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  Speaker 3: this trust says principal and income cannot be distributed to
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  Speaker 3: himself herself without the consent of all the beneficiaries. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: so I don't really love the language. Also, the trust
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  Speaker 3: is revocable, but you cannot amend the schedule of beneficiaries,
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  Speaker 3: which was kind of weird. So you can't change who
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  Speaker 3: the beneficiaries are, but you can revoke the trust. So
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  Speaker 3: and they can't find it again, very strange. You can't
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  Speaker 3: find the schedule, right, so very strangely drafted. There's also
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: language in there that says at death that the beneficiary
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  Speaker 3: may by will transfer his or her interest i e.
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  Speaker 3: To anyone that they want through their will. So that's strange.
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  Speaker 3: So that means it doesn't necessarily go to the beneficiaries
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  Speaker 3: that are listed. If you change your will, if there's
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  Speaker 3: no will, then it passes by the to the intestate
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  Speaker 3: succession by the heirs at law, and so that was
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  Speaker 3: kind of strangely the beneficiary, Yeah, so they can change.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not surprised it's just inconsistent.
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  Speaker 2: But doesn't that not take effect until they're dead?
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  Speaker 3: No, it does, But that's okay, that's when this trust
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  Speaker 3: would distribute because there's a termination clause in there also
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  Speaker 3: that says that upon termination it goes to the beneficiaries. Well,
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  Speaker 3: that's inconsistent with you being able to change your will.
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  Speaker 2: Was this a do it yourself kind of no trust?
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  Speaker 3: Again, it really wasn't a realty trust. It used the word,
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  Speaker 3: but really didn't qualify as one. It's more of just
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  Speaker 3: a revocable trust. Now, she also had one hundred thousand
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  Speaker 3: the bank, a million of investments, three hundred in IRA,
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  Speaker 3: so you know some of the IRA, but that the
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  Speaker 3: million dollar investment and the property supposed to go to
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  Speaker 3: this other daughter. So the issue is again she wants
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  Speaker 3: almost all of this to go to the one daughter, to.
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  Speaker 2: The one that's living with her.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, lots of stuff to unpack here, folks. So I said,
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  Speaker 3: first and foremost, I have to get around the undue
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  Speaker 3: influence problem. I go, this to me, looks like daughter
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  Speaker 3: coming in with mother, finding the lawyer with her husband,
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  Speaker 3: getting lawyer to do a plan for mother that benefits daughter.
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  Speaker 3: This has like got undue influence written all over it.
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  Speaker 3: So I had to separate them. I had to ask questions,
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  Speaker 3: I had to get the lay of the land. And
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  Speaker 3: again there's apparently really valid reasons why she doesn't want
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  Speaker 3: this to go to her other daughter. So I'm okay
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  Speaker 3: with that. Yeah, you know, we're able to get past that.
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  Speaker 3: But folks, those are things you need to think about
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  Speaker 3: to make this plan work. So you know, I kind
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  Speaker 3: of get the whole issue there, and we resolved all
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  Speaker 3: of those things. So now what Now it really comes
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  Speaker 3: down to the drafting. Right, So when I look at this,
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  Speaker 3: first of all, I said, the current trust is revocable.
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  Speaker 3: So if it's revocable, it provides no protection from the
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  Speaker 3: nursing home. Remember this, the husband and the daughter paid
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: seventy five percent for this house, and there's still a
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  Speaker 3: mortgage on it, and he's still playing the mortgage they got.
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  Speaker 2: It was given to them.
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  Speaker 3: They bought it together. Oh, they legitimately bought it together. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that wasn't a problem. They were show me that though.
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  Speaker 3: Well the daughter and she's seventy four the mother and
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  Speaker 3: so their average age and so yeah, so I said, okay,
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  Speaker 3: you paid seventy five percent of this the mother wants
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  Speaker 3: the property to go to you, but if she gets
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  Speaker 3: sick and goes to the nursing home, you're going to
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  Speaker 3: have to buy out that twenty five percent interest. So
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  Speaker 3: that's that's a problem. Yeah. I also don't love the
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  Speaker 3: fact that the way it's owned, you know, you could
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  Speaker 3: run into issues where you could be forced out, you
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  Speaker 3: could have a petition to partition. I don't know that
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  Speaker 3: she's got enough rights, so I want to give her
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  Speaker 3: a little more rights. But yeah, I said that that's
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  Speaker 3: a problem in and of itself. It's not protected from
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  Speaker 3: the nursing home. Now, how do we fix that? Well,
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  Speaker 3: if we set up an irrevocable trust, then we can
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  Speaker 3: fix that.
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  Speaker 2: Just for mom's part. Just for mom's part, okay.
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  Speaker 3: But we have to get it out of the trust.
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  Speaker 3: The other problem I saw here is that I think
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  Speaker 3: there's a probate problem, right. I think the way this
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  Speaker 3: is drafted, one, if the beneficiaries really are in their name,
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  Speaker 3: then it could end up in probate. But more importantly,
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  Speaker 3: it seems to say that you can do your will
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  Speaker 3: to direct where this asset goes. And if you do that,
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  Speaker 3: then you're going to probate to direct where the asset
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  Speaker 3: goes and if you don't do a will, it says
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  Speaker 3: it passes by intestate succession. Well, if that's the case,
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  Speaker 3: which it is conflicting with the termination clause, then it
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  Speaker 3: won't all go to your daughter, It'll go half to
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  Speaker 3: the other door. So now you've got a problem with
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  Speaker 3: how this is set up in terms of where it's
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  Speaker 3: ultimately going to go.
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  Speaker 2: And one daughter will own twelve and a half percent
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  Speaker 2: in the of her sister's house.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: That won't be enjoyable, not at all.
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  Speaker 3: And so, folks, these are the kind of problems I
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  Speaker 3: was able to spot looking at this really poorly drafted trust.
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  Speaker 3: To fix pretty simple. Get the house out of the trust,
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  Speaker 3: seventy five percent to the daughter, and then amend the
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  Speaker 3: old trust. What you're allowed to do, make the distribution.
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  Speaker 3: We're not changing the beneficiaries. She puts her twenty five
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  Speaker 3: percent in a Medicaid income only trust, gets it protected
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: from probate nursing homes, and puts the language and so
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: make sure it goes to the daughter that she wants.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: To get problem solved, everybody moves on, folks. That's just
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: when you do planning. When you don't do planning in
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: your face with nursing home care. Last Minute, don't write
• 10:12
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• 10:14
  Speaker 3: assets last Minute eight six six eight four eight five
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• 10:22
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Power as
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: much more to come when we return to the Legal
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
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  Speaker 1: regarding numerous strategies that can protect your assets from the
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  Speaker 1: nursing home. It could be your primary home, a vacation home,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: or any rental property you may own. You've worked hard
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  Speaker 1: advisory services. You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky,
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  Speaker 1: an expert in elder life planning and taxation. Need help
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lotski, a partner with the
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with the Masters in Taxation.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Where we headed now, Tood.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: So we're gonna do or stay right here, We're gonna
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: do another real life story. This is another case I got. Basically,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: we talk about reviewing your planning m suprime. Example, when
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: the family came in to review their planning, you could
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: end up with doing nothing, which is fine, or you
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: could end up fixing your plan. So even if you've
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: done planning, reviews allways important. If you haven't done planning,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: planning is important. So let's look at the facts. So
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: in this case, we had a husband wife in their seventies.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: They came in let's call him Sue and Bill, two kids,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: two grandkids. They have about a million bucks in an,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: they have a million dollar home. Husband has a five
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars IRA. Wife's got one point two, So
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: call it one point seven in IRA's one point nine.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Invested one hundred thousand dollars in banks, okay, four point
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: seven in total, one point seven IRA. Keep that in mind.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: There's a large IRA, and that makes a difference when
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: you're doing planning. How old were they todd in their seventies?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Then I went on a little further and I found
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: out that they also have an unbelievable long term care
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: insurance policy. I've never seen this, honestly, you've never seen it.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Six hundred and eighty dollars a day for five years.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, twice is more than twice as high as typical.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Now, remember a lot of insurance companies went out of
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: business because they did it wrong. They underpriced them pro long.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: This was the problem, was, Yeah, but they're stuck with it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: So six hundred and eighty dollars a day for five years,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: that's twenty five hundred dollars a month, way more than
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the cost of nursing home care. Yep, So keep that
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: in mind as we go through this, because again I'm
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: analyzing their estate.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: They could go do nursing home care in a yacht.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like so, and that doesn't count social security
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: income or investment an interest, dividend income on top of
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: all the money they have all that. So they already
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: had two revocable trusts in place. I said, Okay. Turns out, though,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: as you might imagine, nothing was in these trusts completely empty.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: So I said, all right, well that's not helpful, completely unfunnyed.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: So then the trust language I looked at and said,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: equally to the kids paid out if living, otherwise to
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: the grand kids till thirty standard distribution language, a lot.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Of networth to just hand it out right.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Exactly, Susan. That was an other thing that I sort
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: of spotted. I go, well, maybe you know one thing
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I spot right off the bat is you probably don't
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: need two trusts. A joint trust would be far better.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Another thing I spotted, as you just did, Susan, is
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: this payout language. You might want to review that a
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: little bit. So it was a good review of the EP.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: And then again their concerns where they were also saying, well,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: maybe they wanted to know about nursing home protection, believe
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: it or not. And they also wanted to know how
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: best to leave their assets to their kids. So those
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: were the issues. Do they change their trusts, do they
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: do nursing home planning? How do they best leave their
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: assets to the kids, and what's the most efficient way
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: to save estate taxes? Pretty much what we had to
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: look at on a four point seven million dollar estate
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: people in their seventies. Well, folks, I'm going to give
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: you some answers to that, and this again is planning.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: The guide that we're doing this month is about people
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: who didn't plan but find themselves faced with a nursing home.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: For example, you have a house, you might find how
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: it's non countable and non leanable if you're married. If
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: you're single, also non accountable, but treated a little differently.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: You know, what about do I how do annuities work?
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: If I want to buy an annuity last minute and
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: save all my excess assets. It's in the guide. You
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: can learn different assets are treated differently for eligibility purposes,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: last minute, qualified plan, money, et cetera. Call get the guide.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: Learn what to do if you're faced with nursing home
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: care and you haven't. You know, either you haven't done
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: any planning or you've done planning, but there's still going
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: to be assets outside the trust that need protected eight
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange show dot com again eight six six eight
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine to nine or Legal Exchange
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Show dot com. So what we do objectives? Avoid probate, reducer,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: eliminated state taxes, bloodline planning, nursing home protection. Let's start
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: with nursing home protection. They have revocable trusts in place,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: so I said, folks, even if that was on your mind,
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: but way back when it wouldn't have done anything, you
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: would have never gotten the five year clock started using
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: revocable trusts, so that was the first issue. Had to
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: explain that to him. However, I said, look, you've got
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: great long term care insurance, and when you add that
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: to your interest and dividends and Social Security income, I
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: think you're covered. I think yourself insured. At this point
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: in fact, there's more than enough income there to not
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: only pay the nursing home susan, but for the healthy
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: spouse really to live, comfort to be, and to me,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: with all that income, you're never going to touch the
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: assets anyway. So at this point you really are not
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: only you don't need to have an irrevocable trust to
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: shelter assets from the nursing home. They're sheltered just because
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: because of your income, you.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Need one to accomplish all the other objectives, but not
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: necessarily nursing home.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: So not the earf. So we're able to at least
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: knock that out out of the park. Right now, that's
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: off the table. So they understood and agreed that the
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: nursing home objective no longer is a is a concern.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: So then I said, well, let's take a look at
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: what you do have. Well, I explained to them that
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: we could take your existing assets and fund your existing trusts.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: I said, assuming the tax formulas are done right, it
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: will serve to reduce your taxes. That is a correct answer. However,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: if you divide your assets equally into the two trusts
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: you have, it will not serve you to reduce the
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: estate tax as efficiently as a joint trust. Come, So
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I said, why don't we do a joint trust? So
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I said, let's explain the example. So in Massachusetts, we
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: all know we can shelter two million dollars per person.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: But if we don't use our full exemption on the
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: first death, we lose it, so we want to use it. Now,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: generally you do not put iras into a trust. So
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: that's one point seven million of assets here, yep, that
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: would not go in the trust. So if you have
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: four point seven, yeah, minus the one seven leaves us
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: three million dollars of available assets for a trust to
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: put in. Ye. So if we took those assets and
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: we split them, the most that you can put in
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: each trust would be one five. So that means that
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: on the first death, we're only going to be able
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: to shelter one five in the remainder share. So in essence,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: that means we are wasting five hundred thousand dollars of
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: an exemption on the first death.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: You want every bit of that coupon.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: So if you're worth four point seven and you back
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: out one five, you're still left with what two five?
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: That's a lot that's over the two million dollar exemption.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: So on the surviving spouse's death, you're unnecessarily paying estate
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: taxes in mass because of this calculation. So when there's
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: large iras folks and moderate estates joint trusts are better.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Why because I'm gonna take the whole three million and
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: put them in one trust. Yeah, husband puts half in,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Wife puts half in, and then I have a general
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: power of appointment built into the trust that says when
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: husband dies, his half is included because he contributed, so
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: it's his half he's included. Her half gets included in
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: his estate because of this general power of appointment. He
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: dies with the ability to direct where her half goes,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: even to himself.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So regardless of who dies first, they can both do this.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: They both have a general power appointment over the other
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: ones half. So now that language causes the full three
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: million to be included on the first death. Now, with
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: three million in there, I can put into the remainder
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: share two million, which is the Massachusetts a state tax exemption.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: So we've used our full two million exemptions.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Full two million. One million goes in the q TIP
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: share to be taxed later. So four point seven minus
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: two leaves me yep, right, So we're able to shelter
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: way more assets than we could shelter. Again, they're over
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the exemption anyway, at least this way. At least this way,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: I would be able to save state taxes by sheltering
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: the full four million compared to what they would have
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: to pay before. Folks, Again, this is planning. Planning works.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: They were able to review and change their designated beneficiaries
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: and divorce proof and everything else. If you don't plan
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: in your face with nursing home care on the other hand,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: please call and get the guy. Don't write the check
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: to the nursing home. There might be something it can
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: be done. Eight six six eight four eight five six
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Legally Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Dolan are experts in elder lam and their new guide
• 24:34
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• 24:37
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• 24:40
  Speaker 1: or getting close to retiring. The guide has important information
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: regarding numerous strategies that can protect your assets from the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: nursing home. It could be your primary home, a vacation home,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: or any rental property you may own. You've worked hard
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: to achieve wealth, so don't take chances when it comes
• 24:54
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• 24:57
  Speaker 1: brand new guide called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility Call right
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Now eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
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  Speaker 1: or you can request it online by visiting legal exchangshow
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: dot com. That's legal exchangshow dot com. The proceiving was
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: paid for in The views expressed are sole lead those
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory You do not endorse each
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: Artificial intelligence continues to evolve and can now play a
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: role in financial planning. HI, this is Mike Armstrong from
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: the Armstrong Advisory Group. There's a lot that's still unknown
• 25:33
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• 26:10
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
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  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, intestate planning advisors before making any
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• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Exchange and it's time for Ask Todd, the segment where
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Todd will answer your questions about anything and everything that's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: included in the estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. Have a few questions from listeners for you.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Chrissy and Norwood Mass And Chrissy writes,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I've been caring for my mother for the past three months.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: She has a trust that you established for her six
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: years ago. She has around two hundred thousand outside of
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: her trust that we are using to pay for care
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: from an agency. She is on end of life care
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and will definitely not be going into a nursing home.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Can I pay myself and my siblings for the care
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: that we've provided when the caretaker is not there? Should
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I wait until after she passes to do this?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Well, the fact that she's not going to a nursing
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: home really changes the dynamics. Yes, I mean, I think
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: you can pretty much do whatever you want if you're
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: not worried about nursing home care, because it won't it
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: won't matter if it looks like a gift or not
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: because she's not going in, because.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: The only time that matters when you give away assets
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: is if you go into the nursing home. Correct.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we should probably analyze this from both
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: of those yas.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good idea.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I think the first aspect is her question if she's
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: not going into the nursing home or not worried about that.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: All she's going to be worried about is what her
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: siblings are going to think if she takes money, right,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's going to be the issuing.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: And it sounds like they've all been stepping up, so
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: she wants to pay herself and her siblings.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, So if if that's the case, then you know,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: I don't don't know the size of the estate. I
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: don't think it'll matter. It'll just look like mom is
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: making gifts to all these people, which is okay. We
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: have a thirteen point nine million dollar gift tax exemption.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Probably wouldn't matter. But if mom's treating all the people equally,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: what's the point. Why not just wait till you die
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: and get the money. That way, you don't have to
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: worry about gift taxes and filings. You just get an inheritance. Yeah,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: now what you're going to get it anyway? Why do
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: you need it?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: You know, I suppose six months in advance. I suppose
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: only if they weren't all doing the same.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess they're getting if they're going to get
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: different amounts. But again, then you now need to consider
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: what the ramifications are of one getting more than another.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: So I think that's where you are. I think you
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: need to decide one. If everybody's treated equally, I would say,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: there's really no reason to make a gift if you know,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to get it anyway in just
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: a little while.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: So how about if she was going to go into
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a nursing home, because that's a very different answer.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Correct, very different answer. So if that was the case,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: first and foremost, it sounds like there's been no personal
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: care contract established here. So if there wasn't, the quick
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: answer is no, you cannot take money and pay for
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: past services rendered, Okay, saying that that really was for me,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: you know, getting paid for services. Yeah, if you don't
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: have the personal care contract in place, you cannot. It'll
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: be deemed that those services were provided out of love
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: and affection, not because you wanted to get paid. So
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: that would be a disqualifying transfer for Medicaid. So that
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: would be a hard stop.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: No. But then going forward, if they put one in place,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: could they Yeah?
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: I would say, going forward, you know, if you think
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: she's going to stay out of the nursing home for
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: you know, a year or six months whatever it is.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: You know, you don't know how long. Yeah, you could
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: then set up a personal care contract, which needs to
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: be established. You need to have how you get paid,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: how much you get paid, how frequently you get paid,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: how many hours you're working, the type of work you're
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: doing for the person, you know the term, how long
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: you're going to provide the care for, you know, all
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: that stuff, and then take the money you get and
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: report it on your income tax return okay, as income.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: When you do all of those things, that cleanses this
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: and makes it no longer a gift but something you're
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: doing for services rendered, and you know you're converting it
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: to being paid, and then that won't be a disqualifying transfer.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: So you could move five thousand a month six thousand
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: a month and not have to worry about the five
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: year waiting period. But you need the contract in place.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Got it? Okay, So I think that's the answer, Chrissy,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: tough one situation, but figure out those facts. But you know,
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: this is exactly what you need to think about, folks,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: when you're faced with nursing home care. Whether you've done
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: planning and there's something still outside the trust, which there
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: always is or not done any How do we protect
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: what needs to be protected last minute, whether it's a
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: house or a vacation home or rental treated differently? Same
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: thing with four oh one k's and jointly held investment
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: accounts with a non spouse. You wouldn't think about it,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: but all these assets have different treatment and can be
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: saved last minute or at least slow the bleeding by
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: getting on medicaid and shifting around assets. Learn what to
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: do last minute with these assets. Call and get the
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: guide eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: to nine or Legal exchange Show dot com Brand New
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: for the month eight six six eight four eight five
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Peter in Woober Mass in
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Peter Wrights. Three years ago, my mother created an irrevocable
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: trust and put in around eight hundred thousand in investments
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: and her home. She also has around three hundred thousand
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: outside of her trust. She has been declining while we
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: have someone come into the home to care for her,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: but she is likely to need to go to a
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: nursing home prior to the end of the five year
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: lookback period. What do we do if this happened. So
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: they're three years.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: In, they're three years in now, and let's say so,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: but they've got eight hundred thousand and a home that's.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: In the trust in the trust already. Yeah, so there's
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: a lot again.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: And what do you think the homes? What you had
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: to guess gott to be your Well, it's brilliant.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Well, it's between the investments in her home. Oh, together
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: is the investments and her home.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: I see, all right, So you got eight hundred thousand
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: in there, three hundred out. So if you're sure that
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you're not going to make the five year waiting period,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: you know, I might. I might just say at this
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: point one, even if you did nothing and she got
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: sick the next day, we have two years to deal with. Well,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: when you start adding in social Security and another one
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars to pay the nursing home, you know
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: you're going to blow through two hundred of the three hundred,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: just so you know, worst case scenario to private pay
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: right away. Yeah, if she had to go in right away,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: you know, you could cover two years and still have
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: one hundred left. But more importantly, I spend two hundred
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: to save eight hundred because eight hundred will be protected
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: at the end of two years, so you need to
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: think about that dynamic. So that's a worst case scenario dynamic.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: She makes it another year, well now I only have
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: to spend about one hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Yeah,
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: to protect eight hundred. It gets better. So having the
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: clock running is always better than not having the clock running.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: So I like that approach. I would probably say. The
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: other thing you could do is you could, if you
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: think you know you have enough to cover two years,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: take one hundred thousand throw it in. But if you
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: did that, you're going to create a new five year
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: waiting period.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Well, she'll also need to pay for the care in
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the meantime, right if she does.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: She got to keep it out there. So the other
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: thing I might think about is maybe take that money
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: and you could put it in a joint account with
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: a non spouse. You might luck out there and say, oh, well,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: joint accounts with non spouses are only deemed half included
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: a bank account, not a bank account, sorry, an investment account. Yeah,
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: but I think the best approach here is probably to
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: set up a personal care contract, almost like what we were
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: talking about before. If we want to keep mom home
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: and that's the goal, and that's her goal. This really
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: is a personal care contract situation, right because with three
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars, if I'm spending you know, it depends
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: how much time you're spending, but you know you're spending
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: four hours a week. If you can justify that and
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: you're not working, you could be moving five six thousand
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: a month, right, Well, that get sixty thousand. You know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: if she takes another year, you've moved sixty thousand dollars.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: That's not subject to being a five year waiting period
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: if you do the personal care contract that I just
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: explained in the prior example, prior question.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: So what happens Todd if they comes to the end
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: of the day she's going into the nurse home and
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: she has one hundred thousand dollars or two hundred thousand
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: dollars left left that is not going to be used
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: to private pay. Can you protect that last minute when
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: she goes in?
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the last minute things you would do with
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: any excess resource. The same thing here. If I spent
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: two hundred and I had one hundred left, and I
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: got past a five year waiting period, you could either
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: buy an annuity, depending on her age, a medicaid annuity.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: You could set up a pooled trust if the annuity
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: numbers don't work. So lots to think about, but lots
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: that can be done last minute, which is exactly what
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: the guide is all about. Folks, call and get it.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Learn what you can do last minute eight six y
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine, or go
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: to our website Legal Exchange Show dot com and download
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: it right there.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a part
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: with a law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back with more after
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: this quick break on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Dolan are expert in elder loam and their new guide
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: is called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. It'll help you understand
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: the Medicaid process, which is critically important if you're retired
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: or getting close to retiring. The guide has important information
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: reg guard yarding, numerous strategies that can protect your assets
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: from the nursing home. It could be your primary home,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: a vacation home, or any rental property you may own.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: You've worked hard to achieve wealth, so don't take chances
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: when it comes to protecting it. Get your copy of
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's brand new guide called Last Minute Medicaid
• 38:15
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• 38:18
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• 38:21
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• 38:24
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• 38:27
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 38:41
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• 38:44
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• 38:52
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• 38:55
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• 38:58
  Speaker 1: quiet shores of Saint John. From the moment you arrive,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: you'll feel it. You're naturally in rhythm with the heartbeat
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of the islands. There's no passport needed, no currency to exchange,
• 39:09
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• 39:39
  Speaker 5: Artificial intelligence is constantly evolving and can even be a
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• 39:46
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• 39:49
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• 39:52
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• 40:01
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• 40:04
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• 40:08
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• 40:16
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• 40:18
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• 40:21
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• 40:24
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• 40:25
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 40:30
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• 40:33
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 40:35
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• 40:38
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Your tune to the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: If you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Call Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four,
• 40:48
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• 40:51
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• 40:54
  Speaker 1: eight five six nine nine, or visit him online at
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So Todd, we're focusing this month. Your
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: new guide is all about the medicaid process. So when
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: someone goes into a nursing home, yeah, what can be
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: done to save those assets? And you know I love
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: a loophole. So what I would like to talk about
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: this week or some of those last minute wild card
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: exceptions that are out there. So okay, let's start with
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: a disabled child. There are things that you can do
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: with your assets if you have a disabled child, last minute, correct.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: There are there are. So the nice thing about you know,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: a disabled child is there's really no limitation or no
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: asset no value limitation. So it's truly one of the
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: one of the wild cards. And again I always ask
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: so when clients to come in, like if someone gets
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: this guide and they realize they need help last minute
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: and they come in, say what do I do? The
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: first question I ask is do you have a disabled child?
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: And as as perhaps you know, maybe you wouldn't think
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: about it, but there's a lot of them, and it
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: comes up more often than than you might than you
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: might think, And so I always tell them, well, if
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: we've got a disabled child, well, first of all, you'd
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: be single, you'd be dealing this. If you're married, you
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: would not be you would not be concerned about using,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: utilizing necessarily your disabled child. But if you're single, then
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: then then yes I would probably And again, folks, that's
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: the reason why you get the guide. There's different rules
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: for single people and married people, so always remember that.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: So if you're single, I'd say, yeah, well, I can
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: actually take all my assets, not just a house. It
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: could be a home, it could be money investment accounts,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: and you can transfer them either directly to a disabled
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: child or do you want to do that? Yeah, And
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: that's where I was headed, so or to a trust
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: for the sole benefit of the disabled child, and those
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: transfers are considered non disqualifying transfers, meaning there is no
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: five year waiting period. You transfer it, you don't have it,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: you could apply for Medicaid the next day, so you
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: could basically bring your assets down to two thousand dollars overnight. Okay,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: if that was the solution, right, I know, you might
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: have other children, but sometimes this is a way of
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: saving the assets.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: If nothing's been done.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: But the problem is it would disinherit the other children potentially.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: What I mean by that is it's got to be
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: for the sole benefit of Now. It can have language
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: that says when that child dies, it could go to
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: the siblings, right, but not until.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: But they couldn't, you know, gift out of that trust
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: after you know, mom passes away and you no longer
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: in the nursing home.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: No, that there would be designed as the sole benefit
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: of that child. And so you know, the nice part
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: about that is is the transfer is not disqualifying, So
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: for Medicaid purposes, you're immediately eligible and you've provided for
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: someone who who might be otherwise on the Medicaid roles themselves.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: You've now provided a trust to take care of them.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: The reason I wouldn't give it to them directly though,
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: is because if you give it to them directly, then
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: they could lose the governmental benefits they might have been getting,
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: maybe they were on SSDI or some kind of benefit
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: that they're entitled to. You would lose that. But if
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: you give it to a special needs trust or a
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: sole benefit trust as they call it, then they don't
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: own it, and if they don't own it, they don't
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: lose the benefit.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Does it have to be your child? Is that the
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: only option?
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: Well, in this case, there's a paragraph that says you
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: can transfer it to a child, and so yes, it
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: would have to be a child. But then there's another
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: regulation that says transferring assets to a individual right, not
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: just a child. So you can transfer it to a person,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: and it could. I've seen a case where they've they've
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: set up a trust for a disabled in law. Yeah,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: go figure. So yes, you can do it to other
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: people as well. You know, I think for the other
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: people though, they need to be under sixty five. But
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: no matter, I mean, there's these are nice options to
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: have when you're thinking about how am I going to
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: say my assets last week? Folks? That's one example. There's
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: many examples in here about taking assets and transferring to
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: caretaker children. What if you own property with a sibling
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: and you both own it together, You'll see how you
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: might be able to save the asset by transferring it
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: to a sibling. There's many exceptions, not to mention how
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: assets are treated. Some are accountable, some are non countable.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Right from the get go, you got to learn how
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: each asset you own is treated and what can be
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: done to save certain assets outright and slow the bleeding
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: on other assets and become eligible for medicaid last minute,
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: with no advanced planning. This is the guide for you
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Don't just write the check,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: get the guide eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: So in our last segment, Todd, we talked about that
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: personal care contract. How is that different than this wildcard exception,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: which is the caretaker child.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, that's a very different one.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: So you could have a child that has that personal
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: care contract right.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Right, but you wouldn't need the contract at all. Those
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: are mutually exclusive ideas. So the personal care contract and
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: a caretaker child are completely mutually exclusive. So if you
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: have a By the way, this is different than the
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: disabled child wild card exception. This is only a house,
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: not money, not investment accounts, not bank accounts, just a home.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: And it's your primary residence, not your vacation home, not
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: your rental home.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: And how would you qualify for that?
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: In order to do this, you are allowed to transfer
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: the house primary residence to a caretaker child, and that
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: transfer will not be a disqualifying transfer for Medicaid. It's
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: a freebie. Now. In order to qualify, the child needs
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: to have lived in the home for two years prior
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: to the person going to the nursing home. And for
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: those two years prior to the data admission to the
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: nursing home, this child needed to have provided care.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: And how would you prove that?
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Usually you get a doctor's note to explain the care.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: And by the way, it's not just you know, I
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: did the laundry and cut the grass, right, that's not
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: going to do it. No, you need to actually provide
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: skilled nursing level care like toileting, bathing, cleaning, cooking, feedings,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: two of those. Ye as long as you're doing at
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: least two of those for the individual that keeps them
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: out of the nursing home longer then would otherwise be
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: the case, which is why they do this. And remember,
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: if you moved in there, you might not have a
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: place to live anymore, so you really need the house.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: So officially formally moved in there.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so you got to prove both of those things.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Proven that you live there is usually pretty easy. It's
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: the care that you need that note for, and then
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: if you qualify for that, you can transfer the house.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Lots of problems with this that I see.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what if you're not the only child?
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Things right, One, if you're not the only child, you're
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: giving it to one child who doesn't have to give
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: it to the other children. That's a problem. Although now
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: there's a new regulation that says you don't have to
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: make the actual transfer. It will be non countable because
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: it's your house and as long as it passes to
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: that person, even some portion to that person, So you
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: could leave it to all three at death and still
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: qualify for now. I don't love that you could do it,
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: but I actually I do because then you get your
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: step up in basis. But if you were still in
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: the situation where you were transferring it during life to
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: that one child. Make sure you reserve a life estate.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: And what's the importance of that.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: So if you reserve a life estate, then you're going
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: to get this step up in basis.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's very important.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: And so all the built in gain associated with that
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: house when you finally die and it goes the remainder
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: interest in the life estate vest that in the caretaker
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: child's the caretaker child will have it with a basis
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: equal to fair market value. So if it's really appreciated
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: over the years, the kid could sell it, but no,
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: no gains, no capital gains. Text. Now you could live
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: there for two years and get the exception, but I'd
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: rather have the high basis. So lots to think about
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: even when you're using the caretaker child exception, folks. But
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: that is an example laid out in the guide. That's
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: just one of the many examples of how to treat
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: certain assets like rental property. There's an example of how
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: to treat that. Each asset is treated differently. Learn how
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: to get eligible for Medicaid last Minute eight six six
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or legal Exchange
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: show dot Com.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Letsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us today and
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: we'll be back again next week on the legal exchange
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: with Todd Letsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: are not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: if you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: and Dolan are experts in elder lam and their new
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: guide is called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. It'll help you
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: understand the Medicaid process, which is critically important if you're
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: retired or getting close to retiring. The guide has important
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: information regarding numerous strategies that can protect your assets from
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: the nursing home. It could be your primary home, a
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: vacation home, or any rental property you may own. You've
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: worked hard to achieve wealth, so don't take chances when
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: it comes to protecting it. Get your copy of Cushing
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: and Dolan's brand new guide called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Call right now eight six six eight four eight five
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: six nine nine. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or you can request it online
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: by visiting legal exchainshow dot com. That's legal exchange show
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: dot com. The proceeding was paid for in The views
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: or investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: not endorse each other and are not affiliated. It summer's here,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: New England, and it's the perfect time to trade the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: daily routine for something extraordinary. Say hello to the US
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Virgin Islands, America's Caribbean paradise. Explore the vibrant history and
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: flavor of Saint Croix. Lounge on the stunning beaches of
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Saint Thomas, or find your peace on the quiet shores
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: of Saint John. From the moment you arrive, you'll feel it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: You're naturally in rhythm with the heartbeat of the islands.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: There's no passport needed, no currency to exchange, just warm weather,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: clear blue water, and unforgettable experiences waiting for you. Whether
• 52:35
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